Aug. 3, 2011 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:02:57
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
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unidentified
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The Joe Rogan experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day We're up Well, what a journey, Mikey. | |
| We were supposed to be doing this. | ||
| First of all, thank you to Red Band for saving the day. | ||
| If it wasn't for you... | ||
|
unidentified
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Once again... | |
| Yeah, you saved a day with Kanye, and you saved a day with Mikey Musumeci. | ||
| So Jamie got the cooties, ladies and gentlemen, again. | ||
|
unidentified
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Again! | |
| For the second time. | ||
| He looks great. | ||
| He doesn't seem like he's that sick. | ||
| So we're stuffing him full of IV vitamins out there. | ||
| So you've had COVID how many times? | ||
| I think two or three times now. | ||
| Two or three? | ||
| Did you get tested? | ||
| I got tested two of them, so for sure two, but I think I had it three. | ||
| The third time you think you had it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Delta was the worst one though. | ||
| Did you get it bad? | ||
| I could barely walk from Delta. | ||
| Like my lungs and like a good month of like dying. | ||
| Really? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Wow. | ||
| Well, you were probably training the whole time, weren't you? | ||
| I was training during the Omicron one, but the Delta one, my muscles, I couldn't lift my arms and legs. | ||
| It got really bad. | ||
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unidentified
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Wow. | |
| That's crazy because you're in really good shape and you're young. | ||
| Yeah, I run six miles every morning and I could barely walk a mile when I had it. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So it got you hard. | ||
| Really messed me up. | ||
| Do you think you were getting it and then you kept working out and it got worse? | ||
| Was it one of those deals? | ||
| I think so, but I think the residual effects of it from after being sick or what messed me up, like with the muscles, felt like my body was like decomposing. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How long did it take before you like fully got over it? | ||
| A few months, like completely, like where my body didn't feel messed up. | ||
| So did you take any medication while you had it? | ||
| Were you on anything? | ||
| No, just... | ||
| Just your immune system? | ||
| Yeah, just drinking a lot of water, a lot of sauna, and like... | ||
| Just dealing with it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that's not the best strategy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Vitamins are very important to deal with it, but if you can get access to monoclonal antibodies, that's really the best way to handle it. | ||
| Yeah, because I had the vaccine three times and I still got it really bad. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| It was so bad. | ||
| It's a tricky disease. | ||
| So anyway, Jamie, who has successfully avoided it for 21 months. | ||
| He got it, and he's had very strong antibodies this entire time, but then we just got back from Vegas for the UFC, and we did a big show out there, and he got the cooties. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When I was in Singapore, I had to get tested like every week, because I was going to Indonesia a lot and Malaysia, so I knew I didn't have it, at least during that time. | ||
| So what are you doing in Singapore? | ||
| You were training in Singapore and living in Singapore? | ||
| Yeah, so the last four months I've been living in Singapore. | ||
| I moved there to train at Evolve, which is the coolest gym I've ever been in my life. | ||
| It's huge and the facility is amazing. | ||
| I moved there because I wanted to train and see Shatri, the owner of One Championship. | ||
| I met him one time and he was the most... | ||
| Amazing person I've met and he's a true martial artist. | ||
| He loves Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai, and what he stands for with martial arts. | ||
| It really moved me. | ||
| I moved to Singapore, changed continents, and I've been living there the last four years. | ||
| For four years? | ||
| No, four months. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| Okay, for four months. | ||
| So for four months, how do you live out there? | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| So, I'm training every day there and just experiencing the Asian culture, you know? | ||
| I love learning about cultures and I'm learning Indonesian also. | ||
| Are you really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is that the language they speak in Singapore? | ||
| They speak Malay, but Indonesia is right there also. | ||
| So, I'm learning Indonesia. | ||
| So you speak Portuguese, right? | ||
| Fluent, right? | ||
| Yeah, fluent. | ||
| I taught myself Portuguese. | ||
| How'd you do that? | ||
| So I was around Brazilians my whole life, so I just used Google Translate for so many years that I learned Portuguese that way. | ||
| No one ever taught me. | ||
| No way! | ||
|
unidentified
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Really? | |
| Just using Google Translate. | ||
| That's insane! | ||
| And then Brazilians always correcting me when I made mistakes. | ||
|
unidentified
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Wow. | |
| That's nuts. | ||
| So I even know like the slangs of the different parts of Brazil because I would just talk in Portuguese on my phone like all day with Brazilians. | ||
| I've never even heard of someone like learning from Google Translate. | ||
| How much time did you spend on Google Translate? | ||
| Lots of hours. | ||
| That's insanity. | ||
| Yeah, because you just over time just keep using it. | ||
| You start seeing the words and you start remembering the words. | ||
| Did you train much in Brazil? | ||
| No, I've only... | ||
| I learned Portuguese completely out of Brazil. | ||
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unidentified
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Wow. | |
| And so just talking to Brazilians... | ||
| Every day, yeah. | ||
| ...and then words you didn't know or understand, going through Google Translate. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| But what about, like, the grammar and how things are structured? | ||
| Did you speak Spanish at all before? | ||
| No, I just... | ||
| Over time, I just kept learning it more and more and more. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| It was, like, just a long process. | ||
| Well, you started training when you were four, right? | ||
| So 21 years. | ||
| I'm 25 now. | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| So 21 years of being around Brazilians. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How long did it take before you actually could speak Portuguese? | ||
| Like fluent to this level? | ||
| I knew some words as a kid. | ||
| And then I would, for fun, try to pretend I was Brazilian at tournaments with the refs. | ||
| It would help if you're Brazilian with the refs, right? | ||
| So I would go in as an undercover spy, and I would go up to the refs, say something in Portuguese. | ||
| I didn't know any words. | ||
| And the ref would think I'm Brazilian. | ||
| So I'd finish the tournament, and then the ref would come up and talk to me. | ||
| I wouldn't know what he's saying. | ||
| And then he would look at me with betrayal. | ||
| And then you eventually learned how to talk. | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| So now you talk to the refs in Portuguese. | ||
| Yeah, now I talk to everyone in Portuguese, you know. | ||
| Can you read it too? | ||
| Read, write, speak. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| No formal training. | ||
| No formal training. | ||
| That's very impressive. | ||
| It's just... | ||
| I love learning languages and cultures, you know, so for me, Jiu Jitsu came, the Jiu Jitsu I do came from Brazil, so the Brazilian culture is so big in Jiu Jitsu, so I really wanted to learn Portuguese and even to communicate with all the Brazilians. | ||
| It's so interesting. | ||
| It is interesting. | ||
| It's a beautiful language, the way it sounds. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like a poetic, flowing language. | ||
| It's more emotional. | ||
| I feel like in Portuguese, I'm almost a different person than in English. | ||
| It's all feeling-based, you know? | ||
| I'm more confrontational in Portuguese. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| I'm a whole different personality. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| That's hilarious. | ||
| That's hilarious. | ||
| Do you know any other languages? | ||
| Right now I'm learning Indonesian. | ||
| That's it? | ||
| Yeah, I'm getting better with that. | ||
| Spanish is so similar to Portuguese that I can understand it and read it. | ||
| Do you learn Indonesian from just the same way you learn Portuguese from just like Google Translate? | ||
| Actually you can't because Indonesian has a formal and informal and nobody talks informal. | ||
| But Google Translate is only formal for Indonesian. | ||
| So I have to learn it from friends and I'm just learning it like that. | ||
| So, the process of you going over to Singapore, so you meet Chhatri, and then you just decide to go to Singapore? | ||
| Just decide. | ||
| And just decide to move there? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So, my whole life, I lived very close to my parents, you know, 25 years. | ||
| And then I leave and just change continents, you know. | ||
| Again, it was Kshatri's vision with martial arts, and I saw the future of Jiu Jitsu when I was talking to him, and it was something I wanted to be a part of. | ||
| So I got my stuff, my four short-year-old shirts, and two geese, and moved to Singapore. | ||
| That's it? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So did they get an apartment for you or something? | ||
| Yeah, I have an apartment there. | ||
| Right now I'm staying in a hotel, but I'm spending time here in Vegas still, and there. | ||
| And so, are you planning on making this a long-term thing? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah, really? | ||
| Wow. | ||
| You know, because what One Championship is doing, now they're getting into jiu-jitsu, which is so interesting. | ||
| They're going to have belts and divisions. | ||
| I actually have my—I'm fighting for the belt in One Championship September 30th, and it's going to be on Amazon Prime in the U.S., because now they're getting into the U.S., Oh, interesting. | ||
| Yeah, and what's really cool about them is how they're spreading martial arts all over with kickboxing, Muay Thai, MMA and Jiu Jitsu on the same card. | ||
| Yeah, I think that's really interesting. | ||
| So fans will like learn about all the martial arts, you know, like I could watch Muay Thai and kickboxing as well as Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| So the viewership for it just increases so much, you know. | ||
| Well, it's also interesting, right? | ||
| Because they're showing all the different styles. | ||
| By showing grappling only and striking only, you get to see, like, the purest version of each individual style. | ||
| Yeah, and they could appreciate it, right? | ||
| Yeah, and they're getting guys in there like Nikki Holtzkin, like, you know, world-class kickboxers and... | ||
| You know Giorgio Petrosian and all these like elite fighters and to have the elite strikers and then guys like you and I know they signed Gordon Ryan and Gary Tonin so there's the Rotolo brothers so there's all these like elite grapplers as well and then they're putting on these amazing shows very interesting I love the fact they're doing that I love the fact that they've by doing that they've really separated themselves from all these other organizations as well Yeah, it's incredible. | ||
| And again, the exposure, it's giving Jiu Jitsu, which is growing so much. | ||
| My last match with Iminari was the most viewed match in Jiu Jitsu history. | ||
| It was over 25 million views. | ||
|
unidentified
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Wow. | |
| So it just shows how their platform, which is huge, could help Jiu Jitsu expand so much, you know, and that's why I want to be a part of it and the growth of Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| We played that match on the show. | ||
| We were talking about your back take. | ||
| That back take you did was so slick. | ||
| Is that a thing you do all the time, the way you did that? | ||
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unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| So it's just a move I've been working a lot. | ||
| And the week of the tournament, I was just doing it over and over and over. | ||
| And then when I went into the match, I was able to do it. | ||
| Well, I've seen a lot of back takes, but that was a slick one. | ||
| That was very slick. | ||
| You're known for being a guy who trains a ridiculous amount of hours a day. | ||
| Has that always been the case with you? | ||
| Yeah, well, when I was in college, like, obviously my hours were limited with training, but since I've been out of college, like, I have so much more time now, so I'm just studying jiu-jitsu so many hours and drilling, you know? | ||
| So I heard you drill sometimes 12 hours a day. | ||
| Yeah, sometimes I'll end up drilling all day. | ||
| If I'm studying a move or a position and I want to find an answer for it, sometimes it takes a long time. | ||
| The puzzle of it is what makes me so interested in Jiu-Jitsu. | ||
| Well, that's what's fascinating to me. | ||
| It's one of the things that I really like to try to let people know about. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is that jujitsu, in many people's minds that don't train jujitsu, they think of it as like a... | ||
| We were talking about it before, like a brutish, very physical, aggressive thing, but it's not. | ||
| It's super technical. | ||
| It's really intelligent. | ||
| And people like yourself excel at it. | ||
| People that become obsessed with it... | ||
| And just like really concentrate and focusing on the finer points of it and drilling until you have something just laser sharp. | ||
| So I see jujitsu like a math problem. | ||
| It's so reaction based. | ||
| So you do a position and your partner will give you a reaction to defend your position. | ||
| So it's up to you to have an answer to the partner's reaction. | ||
| So every reaction they give, you have to have an answer. | ||
| So it's so literal like that. | ||
| And what I love about it, it's the truth. | ||
| If you could do your position or not, it's based on that. | ||
| So it's just so fascinating to me. | ||
| And it never ends, the reactions or the variables of the person's body. | ||
| The size of their limbs will alter the position. | ||
| It's always been so fascinating to me. | ||
| It never stops, so it keeps my mind every second having to figure out new things. | ||
| So when you're working a drill, say if you're drilling for 12 hours in a day, Are you, like, say there's a position that maybe you got stuck in or a position where someone defended and you feel like there's a way to get through that? | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| Do you set up where your opponent does minimal resistance? | ||
| Do you set up for them to try to get out of something? | ||
| How do you do it? | ||
| So I'll have my partner giving me like a lot of resistance and I have to find the answer and I'll just keep observing what they're doing. | ||
| Typically what I'll do is I'll even do the reaction myself defending the move so I could see what is the strength of it. | ||
| And then once I find the strength of it, I could figure out how to stop it, you know, and just mechanically like reverse engineering it. | ||
| Yeah, so you back engineer the move. | ||
| I saw the Mikey lock, too. | ||
| That's very interesting. | ||
| That's a really interesting leg lock. | ||
| I watched you demonstrate that, and I was noticing there was a lot of people that were legit black belts that were like, oh shit, that really works. | ||
| There's something to that. | ||
| Yeah, using your neck instead of your armpit. | ||
| Yeah, it's kind of wild. | ||
| It's just so interesting how in jiu-jitsu we could alter positions with our body, you know, and just instead, like a heel hook, so people understand, is using your armpit. | ||
| So what I figured out was using my neck instead of my armpit, which is also like a pit, and then it's the same efficiency as a heel hook. | ||
| Yeah, and it really works. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you just invented that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I was training and just figuring out different ways to control the foot to get to a heel hook, and then people started tapping when I was doing this, and I didn't even know I had a submission. | ||
| And then I was like, oh my god, and then that became a submission. | ||
|
unidentified
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Wow. | |
| That's pretty wild. | ||
| Have you done that with other moves? | ||
| That's typically how it happens. | ||
| I'll be training and then I'll subconsciously do something, a movement, and then I'll be like, what just happened? | ||
| And then we'll break down what I did and then we'll discover positions. | ||
| You know, it's creativity. | ||
| Jiu-Jitsu is an art, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So there's a form of creativity to it and discovering things in the art. | ||
| It really is an art, and it's an art that is very much appreciated by people who practice the art, and it's kind of hard for people who don't practice the art to appreciate it, because they don't understand it. | ||
| When I first started doing commentary for the UFC, one of the biggest challenges was explaining jujitsu in a digestible way. | ||
| When the fight would go to the ground, a lot of times people would boo or they didn't know what was going on. | ||
| And so it was my job to try to explain the progression. | ||
| And like, okay, now he's got to clear the right arm. | ||
| Now he's in trouble. | ||
| And then I would talk people through right up into the submission, right up into the person taps. | ||
| So they would go, oh! | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| So it made jujitsu more digestible to them and more exciting. | ||
| Because instead of just seeing a bunch of legs and arms all tangled up, they got to see what the person was trying to accomplish. | ||
| Yeah, like, even my friends that started Jiu Jitsu, they all start, they're like, oh, I want to do UFC or MMA, and then they go to the gym, and they look at the Jiu Jitsu stuff, they're like, no. | ||
| And they'll do Muay Thai, right? | ||
| And then they'll just keep seeing the Jiu Jitsu class, and then one day they'll try Jiu Jitsu one time, and then they switch to Jiu Jitsu, no Muay Thai. | ||
| Yeah, well, it protects you from brain damage, too. | ||
| The problem with Muay Thai and all these other things. | ||
| So much impact. | ||
| It's a lot of impact. | ||
| Even if you're just sparring light, you're still getting touched. | ||
| You're still getting thumped in the head. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Do you have any desire at all to ever fight MMA? So I did Muay Thai for seven years as a kid. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I love Muay Thai. | ||
| I think it's awesome. | ||
| And I'm in Evolve right now, which has like the best Muay Thai program in the world. | ||
| So I'm interested in it, you know, and maybe in the future if I keep learning. | ||
| But again, brain damage sucks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But if I could take minimal damage, I don't know. | ||
| But the problem is, like, can you? | ||
| Is it possible to take minimal? | ||
| Think about running into someone who's as good at striking as you are at jujitsu. | ||
| So you're going to take a lot of damage. | ||
| Yeah, you know what I'm saying? | ||
| Think about how much you can control people. | ||
| I first saw you in Who's Number One? | ||
| Who was the bald guy? | ||
| Marcelo Cohen. | ||
| That's right, Marcelo Cohen. | ||
| And I made a bet, and I bet on you. | ||
| It was me and Lex Friedman. | ||
| Lex Friedman bet on Marcelo, I bet on you. | ||
| And I won. | ||
| Ha ha, Lex. | ||
| But when I was watching your technique, I was like, this guy is super advanced. | ||
| This is really interesting. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| And you were setting him up the entire time. | ||
| There was so many times, it's almost like you were allowing him to put you back in half guard and moving back to mount. | ||
| I'm like, he is setting up something very specific. | ||
| And then when you had the opportunity for the triangle, you took it. | ||
| Yeah, I'm always baiting my partner to give me certain reactions so I can do the move, you know? | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| And that's what's so beautiful about the YouTube, how we could set things up and bait them to give us something. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| The problem with you going into MMA is like you could find someone who's like that, but with striking. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like Stylebender. | ||
| Like someone who's like that. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Who's like setting you up. | ||
| And then, you know, But just learning a new skill is so awesome. | ||
| And that's what I love learning. | ||
| It's great for everything. | ||
| I mean, just learning a new martial art in terms of just learning new moves. | ||
| It's just great for understanding different ways that your body can move and be effective. | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
| So your concentration right now is just on jiu-jitsu. | ||
| And because of 1FC and who's number one, and there's quite a few professional MMA jiu-jitsu opportunities now. | ||
| Which is kind of cool. | ||
| It didn't really exist before. | ||
| Yeah, that's what's so amazing about jiu-jitsu. | ||
| The generation before us, they didn't have these opportunities, so they had to go to MMA. Yes. | ||
| Now there's professional jiu-jitsu, and it's getting so much exposure that you could be a professional athlete just doing jiu-jitsu. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then there's, of course, things like BJJ Fanatics, where you put out videos and people sell them. | ||
| Gordon, from that and seminars, he's making a couple million dollars a year. | ||
| No, it's amazing. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like you'd be crazy to do anything else but that. | ||
| And now that one is like putting it on television and in Asia, it's gigantic, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I was going to go to law school two years ago. | ||
| I had a full scholarship to law school in Las Vegas. | ||
| From jujitsu and making the money I'm making, it was more beneficial to stay in jujitsu and not become a lawyer, you know? | ||
| So it just shows how jujitsu is so great now and how you can do it as a career. | ||
| Also, it's more fun. | ||
| Oh, so much more fun. | ||
| Being a fucking lawyer? | ||
| No. | ||
| My sister's a lawyer. | ||
| Is she? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is she Tammy? | ||
| Yeah, Tammy. | ||
| Is she enjoying it? | ||
| Yeah, she likes it. | ||
| Your sister's really good, too. | ||
| Yeah, she beat me up my whole life. | ||
| She's really good at jujitsu. | ||
| Yeah, I'll never be able to get her back for the amount of time she's tapped me. | ||
| My whole life she's like smashed me. | ||
| So she trains every night after working as a lawyer. | ||
|
unidentified
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Wow. | |
| She'll work from like 6 a.m. | ||
| to like 7 at night and then she'll train at night. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a lot of energy. | ||
| Yeah, but it's her passion. | ||
| She does jujitsu. | ||
| It's great for everyone to do. | ||
| No, I agree. | ||
| But if you went into law school, or if you went and became a lawyer, like, that would really suck. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We need you out there. | ||
| No, yeah, I have to stay in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| Yeah, you're a fun guy to watch, man. | ||
| You're very interesting. | ||
| And it's interesting to see what you can do with your body. | ||
| When we were outside, and you were, like, on your heels, just do that on the chair, just so people can see how ridiculous this is. | ||
| Like, that is crazy. | ||
| The people that don't know, Mikey is sitting, his butt is totally on the ground, and then his heels are totally on the ground, and his heels are beside his legs. | ||
| So it doesn't even look physically possible. | ||
| I tried to get even close to that position. | ||
| There's no room for that movement in my legs. | ||
| They're not going to go like that. | ||
| Yeah, I think because I've been training jiu-jitsu 21 years, my body could just bend in certain ways that, like, it's so natural for my body. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, for sure, it's a weird, that's a weird amount of movement that you can do. | ||
| That has to have come from, I mean, you don't even probably remember your first classes, do you? | ||
| No, I was too young to remember. | ||
| So you've always been doing jiu-jitsu, like, as far as your memory goes back? | ||
| Yeah, 100% my whole life. | ||
| Yeah, that's all I know. | ||
| So your body has developed and matured while learning jujitsu. | ||
| Yeah, so that's why I feel like I'm so bendy and like it's made for jujitsu from all the years, you know. | ||
| You had surgery fairly recently? | ||
| I just had my appendix surgery. | ||
| Oh, Jesus. | ||
| Yeah, it's out of nowhere. | ||
| I was training normal. | ||
| You know, I was doing everything normal and then all of a sudden I had this sharp pain and I thought I had a stomach virus. | ||
| You know, I was in so much pain and then I was actually with Shatari and Shatari is like, no, that's not a stomach virus. | ||
| That's your appendix because it was like one spot. | ||
| So we go to the hospital and they said if I went a few hours later, I could have died. | ||
| Like it was pretty intense. | ||
| So it burst apparently. | ||
| Yeah, like I had to have immediate surgery, so I'm recovering from that now. | ||
| Do they speak English there? | ||
| Yeah, Singapore, they speak English, so it's an English-speaking country. | ||
| So mostly speak English, and then occasionally you hear people speak other languages. | ||
| Yeah, like Malay and Mandarin. | ||
| Is Mandarin the third most popular? | ||
| Is English most popular? | ||
| English is most popular. | ||
| That's the working language of Singapore. | ||
| That makes it pretty easy. | ||
| It definitely makes it easier for me. | ||
| They speak Mandarin there because a lot of Chinese people move there from China. | ||
| Malaysia is right there too. | ||
| How long do you think you're going to stay there? | ||
| I think I'll spend a lot of time there in Vegas still to see my family. | ||
| Just back and forth. | ||
| But why there? | ||
| Just because it's new and unique and this opportunity to train and be around Kshatri. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah, to be around Kshatri and learn from him. | ||
| We train like three times a week together. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, wow. | |
| Yeah, he trains so much and he's so awesome. | ||
| He just loves learning martial arts. | ||
| So I get to spend time with him and learn from him and just experience a new culture. | ||
| It's so amazing. | ||
| I'm eating all the food in Asia too. | ||
| And what is the caliber of training partners over there? | ||
| The training in Asia is actually really high level. | ||
| In Vegas, where I train, I just train with hobbyists in my garage. | ||
| The last five years or six years, I've been doing that. | ||
| You train with hobbyists? | ||
| Hobbyists only. | ||
| So, meaning just people that are friends? | ||
| Just people that do jiu-jitsu as fun. | ||
| They get out of work and they train for fun. | ||
| So you haven't been going to a formal school? | ||
| I would represent big teams, but 100% of my training would just be with hobbyists because I like their energy better than competitors. | ||
| So if you train with a competitor, they have the vibe of like a 9 to 5 job. | ||
| When I train with a hobbyist, they actually want to be there because they're having fun. | ||
| So how I train, I train more like a hobbyist, like my energy. | ||
| So I prefer being in an environment like that. | ||
| So I surround myself with mostly hobbyists. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I would imagine there's some sort of negative to that in that you're not being pressured by elite grapplers. | ||
| But the way that I train, I'm more just teaching everyone around me to give me certain reactions that I need to work on. | ||
| So I'm more observing. | ||
| So if I'm doing a position and I feel like something stops it, I'll teach everyone I train with how to stop what I'm doing. | ||
| And then I have to figure out how to solve it again and again and again. | ||
| So, you basically just piece that all together once you actually get into a match. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So, it's like you're creating building blocks while you're training. | ||
| Yeah, and I control all the different variables and I just add different things in. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So no major gym where you go there, and that's incredible. | ||
| So you could easily recreate that in Singapore. | ||
| I could train anywhere, yeah, exactly. | ||
| The training in Singapore is the same level as, if not higher than my training in Vegas, so it's sufficient, you know? | ||
| When did you start doing it that way? | ||
| Like, when did you go to just basically training on your own with hobbyists? | ||
| So basically, since I was like 15, 16 years old, I lived in Florida. | ||
| I moved there when I was like 10, 11 from New Jersey. | ||
| Where did you start training jiu-jitsu? | ||
| What was the place you started at? | ||
| A gym called Faggio's Martial Arts under Fernando Cabeza in New Jersey. | ||
| And I trained there for six, seven years. | ||
| And then I moved to Florida. | ||
| And in Florida, I trained at American Top Team. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| So I was with a lot of... | ||
| Colson Gracie, black belt, and many people like that. | ||
| But basically, it was me and my sister. | ||
| We would drill for hours on our own, and we would just focus on our own training, you know? | ||
| Like, I've basically been my coach since I'm like 15 years old. | ||
| That is crazy! | ||
| And what we would do is, I would go to high school, and before high school, I'd wake up like 4.30am, 5am, drill up my sister in my garage, and then I would go to high school. | ||
| And then right after school, I would go train again. | ||
| And when you would train again, then you would go to other gyms? | ||
| And just train with the people at the gyms, yeah. | ||
| And then when did you decide to start training in your garage? | ||
| Well, I've always had mats in my garage to train with my sister. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So it helps so much having a sibling that also trained, you know? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So my sister Tammy Musumichi, we would just train every day together, just drilling for hours. | ||
| And then, but this decision to train primarily in your garage, even though you have access to all these gyms, in Vegas is a lot of jiu-jitsu. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I train at a lot of local gyms in Vegas with friends that also train in my garage, a gym called FTCC and Methods Jiu-Jitsu. | ||
| So all these people train in my garage also, local people. | ||
| We just started doing it, especially during COVID time. | ||
| But every night I train in my garage in Vegas and a bunch of black belts and friends that I built up the last five to six years come to my garage. | ||
| Do you think there's any benefit at all for you to be coached by someone else as well? | ||
| Like if you came here and trained with John Donaher or something like that? | ||
| Um, so I definitely get support from people, you know, like Heath Pettigo is a good friend of mine and he gives me like a lot of mental support and stuff, but um... | ||
| That's from Daisy Fresh. | ||
| Daisy Fresh, yeah. | ||
| But basically, I just know... | ||
| The biggest thing I learned in jiu-jitsu is learning how you learn and learning how you succeed. | ||
| And I feel like every Black Bowl World Champion is a little different how they do well. | ||
| Some need a structured format by an instructor. | ||
| Other people do better in other environments. | ||
| For me, I feel like I do the best in this style of learning. | ||
| I'm just more efficient with how I train. | ||
| So do you think it's that, because you've been doing Jiu Jitsu since you're four years old, you have such a deep understanding of what it takes to get good and what you need to do, what steps you need to take to improve, that you really don't need anybody formulating things for you or creating structure. | ||
| You could do it all yourself? | ||
| Basically, I feel like I'm at the point now where I can just focus on that and organize everything and obsess about all the things on my own. | ||
| And you're just self-motivated as well. | ||
| Yeah, well this is my passion. | ||
| I really love Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| So when I'm training, it's my favorite thing in the world. | ||
| And you supplement your Jiu Jitsu training. | ||
| We were talking about cardio earlier. | ||
| You do a lot of airdyne bike stuff. | ||
| A lot of airdyne and running. | ||
| Long distance cardio. | ||
| I feel like it helps me a lot mentally for competition. | ||
| So I train a lot with the hobbyists and I'll do a lot of cardio. | ||
| And that's pretty much it. | ||
| How does the long distance cardio help you mentally? | ||
| So what's interesting about running in Airdyne, what I've noticed is the first 10 to 15 minutes, you have that voice in your head that's like, you're tired, stop, like it fights you. | ||
| And you fighting that voice in your head after 15 minutes, it gets quiet, like it goes away. | ||
| So when you compete, that voice in your head is always there. | ||
| So it gives you the skill of being able to shut it off when you're fighting or competing because it's jiu-jitsu. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so when you run, are you running and having specific things on your mind? | ||
| Are you trying to think about matches and think about competition, or are you just trying to breathe and keep moving? | ||
| So, I think the biggest thing about jiu-jitsu is control. | ||
| Being able to control your opponent, but also yourself. | ||
| So, I feel like mastery of controlling yourself is what I'm trying to do with running. | ||
| And master your thoughts. | ||
| Master all the different variables that I have to deal with when I compete. | ||
| You know, so I channel that when I'm running, like, as if I was competing. | ||
| And do you incorporate any weightlifting or anything else? | ||
| Calisthenics? | ||
| Nothing? | ||
| No, because I lifted weights a little bit when I was a kid. | ||
| But as I got old and I got to black belt, I stopped doing that because all the people I'm fighting are so strong. | ||
| And I didn't want to have to rely on strength with them or to overpower them. | ||
| So I wanted to make my jiu jitsu where if I don't, it doesn't matter the strength, it matters your body positioning. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And you've moved around weight classes too, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What are you competing at now? | ||
| Right now I'm competing at 135. I fight 125 in the US because you're allowed to cut water, but in the one championship they test for hydration, so it's actually healthier, so 135 in one. | ||
| But you've gone up as high as, what, 155? | ||
| I did open weight in 2020 at the Euros, so I fought those big guys. | ||
| It's fun fighting the heavier division sometimes just to see how... | ||
| It desensitizes you to your division when you fight the monsters in the heavier divisions, you know? | ||
| So sometimes I'll do it just so then when I go back to my division, I feel like Superman from fighting those guys, you know? | ||
| Do you worry at all about injuries because people are that big? | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
| That's the fucked up thing about training with big people. | ||
| That's why I don't train with big people anymore. | ||
| When I was younger, I was forced to train with only big people and I was always injured. | ||
| My body was always messed up. | ||
| But now that I'm training with little people, like my size, it's like zero impact. | ||
| So I could train every day and I could keep studying and learning Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| I think that's a huge reason why I could do such high volume. | ||
| Yeah, I think so too. | ||
| I think when people get into like real high pressure, like very intense training and you have a lot of people that are very heavy that you're training with, that's where neck injuries and back injuries and shit starts happening. | ||
| And even like the energy of the people you're training with, if they're there like to hurt you or are they there to like, like good vibes. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Are they there to get better? | ||
| Because I've trained in so many gyms as a kid where like the energy is so bad in the gym and it's a fight, you know, where people are stomping you in the face. | ||
| People are trying to like break things. | ||
| Everyone would be injured all the time. | ||
| I'd go in before training on the side of the mat praying, God, please don't let me get hurt today. | ||
| So many days like this. | ||
| Well, I've always found that people that are smaller, like yourself, generally tend to be the most technical because they have to be. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's a real benefit to being a smaller grappler in that if you really pay attention to the guys like the Hoyler Gracies or Eddie Bravos or these guys that, you know, they started out their career smaller, they're more technical. | ||
| They just kind of have to be. | ||
| Yeah, it's actually, that's why also you'll see kids, when they become adults, they're so technical. | ||
| One thing is experience the years they're training, but also because when they're kids, they're not strong, right? | ||
| They don't have strength. | ||
| So then when they become adults, they have the strength, so they gain the technique when they didn't have strength. | ||
| So it's easier for someone to become more technical if they don't have strength. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because you'll naturally force things. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I always say that about striking, too. | ||
| Like, when little kids learn striking, when they learn striking early on, it's so good. | ||
| Because they're not afraid to get hit, because they can't hit hard. | ||
| So they kind of just touch each other, but they learn how to do things the proper way. | ||
| Like, and they don't muscle everything. | ||
| Because, like, if you teach a big, strong guy how to hit things, they try to, like, really wind up. | ||
| But little kids, like, they'll just do this, like, the way you tell them to. | ||
| So they'll keep their hands right by their cheeks and they'll throw punches the right way, whereas they don't open up to try to get extra horsepower into it. | ||
| And I feel like it's the same thing with jiu-jitsu techniques. | ||
| They'll be in the right position before they try to execute as opposed to try to force their way through something. | ||
| Yeah, I feel like there's always going to be the natural strong guy that will... | ||
| It's very hard for someone that's just learning Jiu-Jitsu not to use their strength, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's their ability. | ||
| Just like a flexible guy, it's hard for them not to use their flexibility. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So any ability that you have, you're going to use. | ||
| So I think that's why the small people get away with becoming more technical because they're forced to. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You want to learn small man jujitsu. | ||
| I tell that even to big guys. | ||
| When I meet big guys, I'm like, learn how to fight off your back. | ||
| Even though you probably won't be on your back because you're so big, but if you can just learn how to fight off your back, it will 100% benefit your top game. | ||
| Yeah, it's interesting because I've talked to both Bushesha and Gordon who are like two of the best big people, most technical, right? | ||
| And they both say that they train mostly with small people because they want to have the technique like the small people. | ||
| Yeah, and they don't use it. | ||
| Like if you watch Gordon roll, he's not using strength at all. | ||
| Yeah, so he's just using pure technique. | ||
| Yeah, pure technique and knowing what you can and can't get away with in certain positions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When you look at the overall scope of Jiu Jitsu, like the Jiu Jitsu environment today, I'm so impressed with the level of technique. | ||
| It is like, if you go back to Jiu Jitsu from the time the UFC entered the picture in 1993, If you go back then and you can see plenty of jiu-jitsu matches, you see really good technique. | ||
| I mean, you watch Hicks and Gracie, and he's going against Higa Machado. | ||
| They're fun. | ||
| Those matches are fun to watch. | ||
| They're very exciting. | ||
| But the level of jiu-jitsu today across the board is extraordinary. | ||
| No, yeah, it's growing every year now, and I think it has to do with how the internet and the instructionals, like now all the moves that people are doing, it's getting spread, and then people are figuring out new things, and the growth is insane, you're right, like, it's insane. | ||
| It's beautiful. | ||
| I have a folder on my phone that's just for jujitsu moves that I've learned off of Instagram, where I have links to different videos. | ||
| It's amazing, just the depth of it. | ||
| It's like there's no end to it. | ||
| You keep thinking they're gonna run out of techniques. | ||
| You keep thinking like, well, we've figured out basically all the different ways to break a limb and to screw up your neck. | ||
| Like, we've got it all down, now let's just refine it. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Always something new. | ||
| There's always something new. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| But it's sort of like noises that you can make with your mouth that lead to sentences, that lead to paragraphs, that lead to books. | ||
| There's so many different ways you could put them all together. | ||
| And that seems to be the same thing with Jiu-Jitsu. | ||
| Jiu-Jitsu seems to be like a language that you learn with your body on how to submit people and manipulate their joints and put them to sleep. | ||
| Yeah, and I feel like especially with the way that jujitsu is that it will never stop growing because it's infinite possibilities. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, I think so too. | ||
| What do you see for yourself as a competitor? | ||
| You're 25 years old. | ||
| How much longer do you think you're going to be doing this at an elite level? | ||
| Do you have long-term goals? | ||
| So, yeah, so I've won every title there is in the gi in jiu-jitsu, you know. | ||
| So right now I'm focusing on no gi and one championship especially because now they're going to have belts and divisions. | ||
| And my goal in jiu-jitsu isn't about the titles. | ||
| It's about helping the next generation and impacting people in the next generation, you know. | ||
| Because a title you win, next year someone else will win it. | ||
| Next year someone else will win it. | ||
| But our impact on people training jiu-jitsu, our impact on inspiring people, that's my goal with jiu-jitsu. | ||
| And when did you decide that that was your goal? | ||
| After I won my first Black Belt Worlds, I won the title and in my mind I thought I was going to be so happy winning this title. | ||
| Your whole life you trained for it. | ||
| And then I felt nothing winning Black Belt Worlds. | ||
| Really? | ||
| I got very depressed because... | ||
| If you make in your mind a goal, like a title, you realize once you win it that it doesn't make you happy. | ||
| It doesn't fill anything inside of you. | ||
| But what fills inside of you is helping people. | ||
| Anything with helping people, teaching people. | ||
| That's why Jiu-Jitsu instructors are so awesome. | ||
| How they can teach people and get them to train. | ||
| Having an impact gives us a purpose in life. | ||
| You know, so that's my goal with Jiu Jitsu that have an impact on others. | ||
| So you've recognized that your own individual success doesn't give you enough. | ||
| It doesn't give me any fulfillment. | ||
| Wow, that's wild. | ||
| Do you think that's because you've been doing it so long that it's been just a part of you for so long that it's just... | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| I feel like it is so natural for me to compete in everything, you know, because it's my whole life doing it. | ||
| But for sure, I feel like when I see someone message me that they're training jiu-jitsu because of me or that I've inspired them and they enjoy it and they're doing jiu-jitsu and not doing bad things, you know, to me that's everything that gives me a purpose to live. | ||
| Have you always had this level of discipline that you have now? | ||
| This level of focus? | ||
| So when I decided I wanted to be a world champion in jiu-jitsu, I was like 10, 11 years old. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So it's so crazy at that age, becoming in your mind like a professional athlete. | ||
| I had this insane instructor that disciplined me. | ||
| His name was Shark. | ||
| And he was like, you can't eat cookies or brownies. | ||
| I was like 10, 11 years old. | ||
| You'll never be a world champion if you eat this cookie. | ||
| You can't date girls. | ||
| You can't, like, all these things. | ||
| So I skipped basically being a teenager and just went to being an adult. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jesus. | |
| So it was a lot of sacrifice, you know. | ||
| But looking back at it, it made me who I am today, the discipline. | ||
| That's great. | ||
| But it's nice to have fun too, right? | ||
| And that's what I'm learning as I got older. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Totally. | ||
| So at 25 years old, you're trying to make up for lost time. | ||
| Yeah, now I'm a teenager. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| So you see your future perhaps as being a coach or running a school or something like that? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| You know, I'm only 25 now. | ||
| My body's so healthy. | ||
| Like, I never did anything bad to hurt my body. | ||
| So I'm very healthy. | ||
| So I could continue competing probably another 15 years if I wanted to. | ||
| But I want to help more people. | ||
| I want to do more seminars, meet new people, learn about new cultures. | ||
| You know, that's what I really love. | ||
| And yeah, maybe in the future also teach people and have a gym and... | ||
| Yeah, and I love learning, so I don't know where I'll end up. | ||
| I end up in a different continent now, so who knows? | ||
| Do you have any... | ||
| Have you had any injuries that are, you know, other than the appendix that required surgery from Jiu Jitsu? | ||
| Never, thank God. | ||
| Nothing? | ||
| No. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So I've been very healthy in 21 years, basically. | ||
| That's very lucky. | ||
| Yeah, and again, I feel like it's the way I train now that... | ||
| I've had some feet injuries, knee injuries, but overall, thank God, nothing crazy. | ||
| Yeah, the way you train is very extraordinary. | ||
| I've never heard of anybody doing that. | ||
| Just training with, basically, hobbyists. | ||
| Like, at what level are these hobbyists? | ||
| Like, purple belt, blue belt? | ||
| Purple, brown, black. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But originally, they were all, like, blue, purple belts, you know? | ||
| But you build the program by just training with them every day, you know? | ||
| And then, as they get more skilled, they give you more and better training. | ||
| Is this program something you wrote down? | ||
| Do you write your training down? | ||
| Not really. | ||
| I just know what I need to be working at the right times. | ||
| I'm basically my own coach in that way. | ||
| And I just had everyone I train with, I teach them to try to beat me. | ||
| That's literally my training. | ||
| Well, that's a sign of a healthy ego that you do that. | ||
| Yeah, I have no ego in training. | ||
| I get obsessive that I need to have an answer to everything. | ||
| I'm very OCD, so if there's a position that I don't have an answer to, I go insane. | ||
| So I need an answer to everything I'm doing. | ||
| So when you have a position that you have an answer to, do you consult with other people ever? | ||
| No, I'll just have, okay, this scenario, I have an answer like this. | ||
| Then there's always a what if. | ||
| And then a certain grip changes or a certain base changes and then the thing I'm doing is ruined. | ||
| So then now I'm like in panic mode and I have to figure out how to deal with it now. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And then, you know, another thing that's really unusual about you is your diet. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You're famous for eating pasta and homemade pizza and only eating once a day. | ||
| Every night I eat like this. | ||
| So how this started was I've been cutting weight and dieting my whole life, right? | ||
| And you almost have all been eating disorder from always dieting and cutting weight for so many years of your life, right? | ||
| It just naturally happens. | ||
| So I would binge eat, I would starve, you know what I mean? | ||
| Like it was very unhealthy the way I would live. | ||
| How much weight were you cutting? | ||
| Just at a young age, cutting weight, you know, I would always be cutting like five pounds, ten pounds, nothing crazy, but I've done crazy cuts also. | ||
| So you just die from those also. | ||
| But all that time, it just messes up your brain where you never feel like you're satisfied and you're never full. | ||
| You know, so that part of your brain that says, oh, you're full, stop eating. | ||
| I stopped having from cutting weight so much. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What I started doing was intermittent fasting. | ||
| So I would just not eat during the day. | ||
| Because honestly, I don't like eating before training. | ||
| I feel bloated when I eat. | ||
| So I would just eat at night. | ||
| But I started just eating the foods I love. | ||
| I'm Italian, so I grew up just eating pizza and pasta. | ||
| So I make pizza and pasta every night. | ||
| I have a pizza oven in my house. | ||
| And I roll out the dough, make everything. | ||
| And then for dessert, I'll eat a pint of acai. | ||
| And my weight would be lighter doing this diet than eating like no carbs and all these things. | ||
| So in my mind I was like, wait, I could eat all the foods I love if I eat once a day at night? | ||
| You know, so it was a no-brainer for me and my weight is lighter and I feel better because I am fasting. | ||
| So I started doing it. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So there's no issue with performance at all? | ||
| I mean, given your blood sugars and everything like that when you're training for extraordinary amounts of time during the day and not eating. | ||
| So how I see it is I have to earn the food at night. | ||
| So training all day is like me working for the food at night, you know? | ||
| Like how people used to hunt and gather for food. | ||
| So that's my mentality. | ||
| And my best performance in Gi Worlds was in December. | ||
| I had my best performance ever, and it was on that diet. | ||
| And I made 125 easy. | ||
| And so when you do like day of competition, same thing? | ||
| You won't eat all day? | ||
| Day of competition, I'll change my diet and I'll eat a piece of bread and a little honey. | ||
| You need some food in your stomach to deal with the nerves and adrenaline. | ||
| That changes, for me at least. | ||
| So bread and honey, huh? | ||
| Bread, honey, rice cakes, just very mild and some sugar, but nothing too heavy. | ||
| And when you are getting, where's your protein coming from? | ||
| I eat a lot of cheese. | ||
| Cheese? | ||
| Is that basically all your protein? | ||
| Basically, I eat a lot of mozzarella, a lot of parmesan, a lot of pecorino romano. | ||
| Do you put any animal products in your pizza? | ||
| Chicken or meat or anything like that? | ||
| No meat. | ||
| No meat at all? | ||
| No. | ||
| I love seafood and meat, but when I'm training for competition, I feel cleaner when I'm not eating meat. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| And your body doesn't feel like... | ||
| Do you feel like the protein that you're getting from cheese is enough? | ||
| I feel the best when I'm doing this. | ||
| Like I feel like most energy, like cleaner. | ||
| I don't understand how, but it works. | ||
| That's such a crazy diet for you to just eat pasta and pizza and only eat at night and then train all day. | ||
| Most people, if you tell that to, they'd go, what are you talking about? | ||
| Like if you brought that to a performance coach. | ||
| Oh, they would be so ridiculous. | ||
| What are you doing? | ||
| Have you talked to anybody about that? | ||
| Would they try to talk you out of it? | ||
| Yeah, a lot of people have said, oh, that's so catabolic, right? | ||
| Because you're breaking down your body doing it. | ||
| But for me, it's sustainability. | ||
| And I could sustain eating and training and keeping a routine doing this. | ||
| And I love my food. | ||
| So I don't think I would be able to compete how I do if I ate normal. | ||
| Have you tried different ways of eating? | ||
| Like different diets and different kinds of combinations of food before? | ||
| Yeah, I've done every diet before. | ||
| Honestly, no carbs, high protein, a lot of meat. | ||
| But none of them are sustainable for me. | ||
| This, I don't have to change how I eat when I train. | ||
| I could just eat like this and I love what I'm eating. | ||
| I go to bed with a full stomach. | ||
| I'm happy. | ||
| I'm always smiling when I'm eating like this. | ||
| Most people look at you like I've seen pictures of you without your shirt on. | ||
| You're so ripped. | ||
| Most people don't believe that that's possible if you're just eating pizza and pasta. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I train all day every second, you know, so if you're fasting for 20-24 hours and you just train every second, like, your body just burns all the fat on it, right? | ||
| So you're basically eating for like one hour. | ||
| I guess, yeah. | ||
| And I watch a movie and I cook and just eat. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And that's just your daily routine? | ||
| Every day, you know, and I enjoy cooking pizza. | ||
| So after training, I'll start making the dough. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So that's my routine every day. | ||
| And how many pizzas do you eat at night? | ||
| One big pizza that fits in the pizza oven, you know, and about half a pound to a pound of pasta and a pint of acai. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I once calculated it, it was like 7,000 calories. | ||
| 7,000 calories and do you know how many grams of protein are involved in that? | ||
| I eat so much cheese that it was actually a really high amount of protein. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| I've never heard of anybody getting cheese as their primary protein source. | ||
| Yeah, me neither. | ||
| And being an elite athlete. | ||
| It's sustainability. | ||
| It's keeping me able to train and enjoy my training and keeping me sane. | ||
| Well, I'm already insane, but it's keeping me more sane. | ||
| Did you read about this and decide to give it a chance, or was it something that you'd seen other friends do? | ||
| So I just, I hated eating. | ||
| What happened was I started doing this because I was doing a lot of seminars and I would be traveling all day and I would never be able to eat when I was traveling. | ||
| Then I would eat a big meal at night. | ||
| And then what I started feeling was a lot of clarity when I started fasting. | ||
| So I stopped eating breakfast and I started feeling better training not eating before training. | ||
| I would just drink caffeine. | ||
| So I drink caffeine during the day. | ||
| And I feel like that gives me the energy. | ||
| And I eat so much at night that in the morning, I'm still full from the night before. | ||
| And I'm just working off the food. | ||
| And then by the time I'm hungry again, it's nighttime and I'm ready to eat. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And so who taught you how to make pizza? | ||
| My grandma taught me how to make pizza. | ||
| She passed away like four months ago, but she taught me how to make pizza. | ||
| And when you do it, are you making the dough? | ||
| Do you have, like, a starter? | ||
| Like, how does that work? | ||
| So, I can make the dough with all the things, but it takes too long. | ||
| I don't have patience, so I just get pizza dough from, like, Whole Foods or, like, Trader Joe's, and I'll start with that dough. | ||
| But then I'm really particular with the cheeses, and, like, I go to, like, three different supermarkets for, like, cheese, basil, all the different ingredients, so it comes out really good. | ||
| Damn, you're making me hungry. | ||
| Yeah, me too. | ||
| I love pizza. | ||
| And there's something about a good pizza that you make yourself in one of those ovens that you have. | ||
| It's so satisfying. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it's so satisfying even to watch, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you slice it up in the melted cheese, and you pick up the first slice. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| How much more time before you get to eat? | ||
| Probably tonight again. | ||
| It's like 322 right now. | ||
| Depends on the day. | ||
| Probably after this, I'll eat like 7 o'clock, 6 o'clock. | ||
| So have you trained at all today? | ||
| Not at all. | ||
| Nothing? | ||
| No, because my appendix, so... | ||
| Oh. | ||
| So I'm just doing a lot of cardio right now, and I'm training a little bit, but just very safe. | ||
| When can you go back to full rolling? | ||
| Well, the doctor told me like hard, full rolling, like middle of August, beginning of August. | ||
| So I could start then, but right now just light or training. | ||
| Just keeping your body... | ||
| Drilling still, studying, but just maintaining. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so this... | ||
| One of the things I saw, a video of your whole pizza setup... | ||
| It seems like there's a company that you use and they send you certain pizza doughs. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| What company is that? | ||
| It's called Cavita for olive oil. | ||
| They send it from Italy. | ||
| It's an olive oil from Italy and I also have a pasta that I use and they send it from Italy too. | ||
| So it's just way better quality. | ||
| What's the difference? | ||
| I feel like the pasta from Italy seems like it's less gluten. | ||
| It seems cleaner. | ||
| Like when you eat it, you don't feel as bloated. | ||
| It's just different, you know. | ||
| The olive oil, apparently they don't change the pH levels in it. | ||
| So in America, all the olive oils have to be like a certain pH. | ||
| Like this is just so natural. | ||
| They have to be a certain pH? | ||
| In America, I think. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| Because what I've noticed about American food, it's more processed and... | ||
| Every time I travel out of America, I get lighter naturally just not eating the processed American food. | ||
| It is wild when you go to Italy. | ||
| My family and I used to go to Italy basically every year before COVID. And everyone's thin. | ||
| Italians in America are so fat. | ||
| And that's how I eat my pizza and pasta. | ||
| It's almost like someone from Italy, not like American Italian food. | ||
| So I think that's why I'm so skinny eating like that. | ||
| Does this company sell pizza dough as well? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| They don't. | ||
| I'm getting my pizza dough usually from Whole Foods, Trader Joe's. | ||
| So what are they using for the dough, though? | ||
| Do you know? | ||
| Just regular pizza dough. | ||
| Whole Foods makes it healthier, right? | ||
| Because it's Whole Foods. | ||
| Is that real? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| I don't think so. | ||
| Just to say that. | ||
| It's just regular pizza dough I use. | ||
| And so you have basically been doing it this way for how long? | ||
| I've been doing it this way since 2020, the last three years. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Three years of just pizza and pasta and just strangling everybody. | ||
| I feel like I'm better eating like this. | ||
| I'm happier. | ||
| Happier makes you better in life, right? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| I wonder. | ||
| I used to be miserable dieting all the time. | ||
| The dieting, I think, is terrible. | ||
| And I think that there's some real benefit to intermittent fasting, and there's definitely some real benefit to giving your body some time to digest whatever food that you have. | ||
| I think there's a lot of people that are packing food on top of food. | ||
| There's this constant cycle through their digestive system. | ||
| It's always processing things. | ||
| I really enjoy intermittent fasting. | ||
| Generally, I don't like to eat before podcasts. | ||
| I like to get a workout in in the morning and then I don't eat until dinner. | ||
| That's mostly how I do it. | ||
| Oh, so you only eat once a day also? | ||
| Pretty much, but every now and then I'll have like fruit. | ||
| Like I'll have like bananas or apples or something like that before I work out. | ||
| The only time I deviate is when I'm really hungry. | ||
| Like there's something going on. | ||
| Like maybe I just worked out too hard and I'll... | ||
| There's a snack company called Carnivore Snacks and they make these ribeyes. | ||
| It's like sliced ribeye that's dried, but it's not like beef jerky. | ||
| It's got like... | ||
| It's soft and like chewy. | ||
| It's fucking delicious. | ||
| And I'll just grab a bag of that. | ||
| After working out? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I'll like have some water, drink that. | ||
| And then I want to have a meal meal until dinner. | ||
| Yeah, some people, they fast at night and they go to bed hungry. | ||
| I could never do that. | ||
| Yeah, that's not enjoyable. | ||
| Going to bed hungry is not fun. | ||
| Being hungry throughout the day, at least you know at one point in time you're going to eat later. | ||
| And I feel like when I drink caffeine, it makes me full also, you know? | ||
| Yeah, definitely. | ||
| Yeah, so it definitely helps. | ||
| Now what about for recovery? | ||
| Would you do any ice baths or saunas or like what kind of stuff do you do for recovery? | ||
| So I have an infrared sauna in my house and every night I'll typically go in infrared sauna and I feel like that helps my aches in my body so much. | ||
| What temperature do you put it at? | ||
| Like 140. So I go in like 30-40 minutes and I feel so much better after. | ||
| Like a detox almost. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Have you ever gone in a regular dry sauna? | ||
| I've gone in dry saunas also. | ||
| I just feel like it's way faster and more impact, like the intensity of it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But infrared I feel like is less impact so I can stay in longer and it's less like you're suffering. | ||
| I wonder what's better for your body overall though because all the studies that have been done I think have been done primarily like the big ones they cite all the time been done on a dry sauna like there's one that was done out of Finland that's really fascinating where they found that four times a week 20 minutes a day at 175 degrees The people that participated in that had a 40% decrease in all-cause mortality. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So it's 40% decrease in heart attacks, strokes, cancer, everything, across the board, everything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's crazy. | |
| And it's directly attributable, they believe, to the release of cytokines, these heat shock proteins, from your body being in that intense heat environment. | ||
| I wonder, like, that intense heat environment, though, 175 is very different than 140. Like, you know, the 140 in the infrared is tolerable. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, I do 185. Oh, wow. | ||
| Yeah, it's not tolerable. | ||
| I don't enjoy it. | ||
| Like, especially, like, the last 10 minutes really fucking sucks. | ||
| Like, I could go in for an hour in the 140, watch a movie, you know what I mean? | ||
| So, yeah, I'm curious the benefits of what I'm doing compared to the hotter one. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I wonder if it's, like, sprinting versus, like, a long cardio session. | ||
| Like, long cardio... | ||
| Base level structure cardio is very important to have this very strong base of cardio where you always are going to recover quicker. | ||
| That's one of the real benefits of guys who run 6, 8, 10 miles. | ||
| A lot of MMA guys are finding that out now. | ||
| That they have this extra gear by putting in those long cardio runs, these long cardio sessions, multiple times a week, as opposed to just exploding. | ||
| Because so much of MMA is anaerobic. | ||
| But if you build that cardio base, it really sort of strengthens the whole picture. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And I wonder if that's the case with sauna. | ||
| I wonder if there's... | ||
| Some benefit to going really hot for like 20 minutes like I do, but also some benefit to going 140 and doing like an hour and maybe just like slow, like your body just has like a slow trickle of these proteins. | ||
| Well, for sure when the hotter one that you do, you sweat faster, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So it's definitely more intense. | ||
| So yeah, it might be like sprinting and long distance running. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Even on your nervous system, right? | ||
| It would also build your cardio. | ||
| What's interesting about the really hot sauna is it increases your red blood cell count and it has a mild effect that's akin to EPO. Wow. | ||
| Yeah, so it increases your red blood cell count. | ||
| Probably also helps your nervous system recover. | ||
| Yeah, it also helps you deal with stress, because it sucks so hard. | ||
| You get numb. | ||
| Well, it's just you have the ability to just suffer. | ||
| Your self-imposed suffering is so much more difficult than most of what the world will give you, because you literally can't survive it for very long. | ||
| The temperatures that I go into, when I hit 20 minutes at 185 degrees, I don't have much left. | ||
| My physical being is in trouble. | ||
| It gets to that point where I'm like, okay, maybe I can do another 15 minutes if I really wanted to show how tough I am. | ||
| But when I get out of there at those 15 minutes, I'm going to collapse. | ||
| Yeah, I've done so many water cuts with Epsom salt baths where like you go in and you're screaming because the water is burning your skin. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So it's like that also, but it's interesting that you said it gets rid of stress because every time I do like an Epsom salt bath, I'll fight way better because the pain from the bath is way worse than the anxiety of fighting. | ||
| Well, the pain from the bathroom must be because of abrasions, right? | ||
| From scratches, from jujitsu? | ||
| Well, just the pain of like you're in such a hot water, right? | ||
| And you're like, you feel like you're burning. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I have a float tank. | ||
| Have you ever done that? | ||
| No. | ||
| The sensory deprivation tank? | ||
| The sensory deprivation tank is filled with 1,000 pounds of Epsom salts. | ||
| You float in it. | ||
| Is that the one with the temperature that your body is the same temperature as the water? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| I have it here. | ||
| That's so cool. | ||
| You should climb in it. | ||
| So the temperature of the water is 94 degrees, which is the same temperature as the surface of your skin. | ||
| So as you climb in there and then there's a thousand pounds of epsom salts, you just float. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And then you close the door so you're in total silence and total darkness and just floating and it feels like you're flying. | ||
| Because you can't feel where the water begins and the air ends. | ||
| It's all the same temperature. | ||
| So it just doesn't feel like you're connected to gravity. | ||
| It feels like you're just flying. | ||
| That's so cool. | ||
| And it's really good for your muscles. | ||
| You get out of there, you feel like everything feels relaxed because there's so much Epsom salts in the water. | ||
| Yeah, I know Epsom salt gets rid of aches in your body. | ||
| Yeah, it's very good for you. | ||
| And a lot of people use it when they cut weight too, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It just opens your pores to sweat more. | ||
| How much weight have you, what's the most weight you've ever cut? | ||
| The most weight I ever cut was 35 pounds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh my god. | |
| In like two weeks. | ||
| What was your walking around weight? | ||
| I was lighter, but what happened was I got really sick from overtraining, and I couldn't train for a week, and I was eating like crap, and my weight went up to like 160, like very bloated. | ||
| What do you weigh right now? | ||
| Right now, like 138, 139. Oh, wow. | ||
| So, three weeks later, I made 125 from 160. Jesus Christ, man. | ||
| So, you had to learn to not overtrain. | ||
| That's my problem. | ||
| My tolerance for pain is really high, so I don't know to stop training. | ||
| I'll just keep training, training, training until my nervous system gets fried. | ||
| And then walking, you can barely do. | ||
| How do your parents feel about this? | ||
| Well, they're like, you need to rest, you need to rest. | ||
| So I'm getting better as I get older with this. | ||
| Right, just wiser about. | ||
| Do you use any sort of electronics, like a whoop strap or anything to sort of gauge your resting heart rate? | ||
| Yeah, so I know like the Soviets would do that, right? | ||
| When you wake up, like your resting heart rate, they could like measure it to see if you're overtraining. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But for me now, what actually helps me with overtraining is running. | ||
| Like the active recovery of like jogging. | ||
| I remember reading something that if you run at like 130 and you keep your heart rate at 130, it restores your nervous system. | ||
| So whenever I'm running, I actually could train more than when I rest. | ||
| Really? | ||
| It's like weird. | ||
| So if I am tired from training, if I lay down and rest, I'll actually be more beat up than if I go for a run. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That's so counterintuitive. | ||
| But it for some reason helps your nervous system restore faster than just laying down. | ||
| It kind of makes sense, right? | ||
| Because you're forcing your body to work and you're pumping all that blood through your system, but you're not really taxing it in a way that's exhausting it. | ||
| Because 130 is kind of like... | ||
| That's like breathing at 130, right? | ||
| It's not that big a deal. | ||
| It's not like you're burning out. | ||
| Yeah, that's what I've noticed. | ||
| That always makes me able to train more. | ||
| Yeah, I know a lot of guys who do long, I forget what they call it, but it was like heart rate training, where they did long, slow training. | ||
| And I would go, God, don't you feel like a pussy? | ||
| Don't you want to push yourself and be exhausted? | ||
| And they were like, yeah, but you can't. | ||
| You're really just supposed to just kind of... | ||
| And the thing about the sauna is when I'm in there, like my friend Bert put a heart rate monitor on himself in the sauna recently. | ||
| I noticed that when I was using the MyZones thing too, is that I would get into the yellow. | ||
| So I would get into like the 80% max heart rate, like in 140s. | ||
| When at the end of my sauna session, so if I'm doing 180, that was, I was, back then I was trying this Laird Hamilton protocol where he was doing like in the 200s. | ||
| He was doing like 210 and 215 degrees. | ||
| So I'd crank it up to 205. I was just trying it, but I was cooking my mouth. | ||
| Like I was having a hard time like with my throat and I realized, hey, you fucking idiot, you're cooking your throat. | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| Because I was in there at 205 degrees for 20 minutes. | ||
| I'm basically like a brisket. | ||
| It's ridiculous. | ||
| But when I would get out of there, it was too much. | ||
| The impact. | ||
| Yeah, it was too much. | ||
| I was over-exhausting myself. | ||
| Well, when I would do like Epsom salt baths, I would cut a lot of water. | ||
| You want to cry, but you have no water left in your body to cry. | ||
| Now, how would you rehydrate? | ||
| Did you use IV? No, just electrolytes. | ||
| But in jujitsu, especially in IBGTF, you have to fight right after weighing in. | ||
| Oh my god, so you cut the weight and then you fought dehydrated? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So that just makes, like, your skill level has to be so good with using no energy that you could fight on your deathbed. | ||
| Wouldn't it be better if you just fought at a higher weight class? | ||
| No, I fought at higher weight class too. | ||
| Like, I won worlds at 141 and 125. Yeah. | ||
| But just the experience of going down to a lighter division and challenging yourself where you feel, like, so weak and no energy and being able to overcome that, like, was fascinating to me. | ||
| And when you did those, you had to weigh in right after competition or you have to weigh in right before competition. | ||
| How much time exactly do they give you? | ||
| Like right before? | ||
| So there's three matches before you when you weigh in. | ||
| But if those matches go fast and people don't show up, you have to fight immediately. | ||
| So with my luck when I did this, this one time, it was 2019, I won Worlds in 141 two years in a row. | ||
| And this year I went down a weight class and I fought 125. And I was 160 three weeks before. | ||
| I made 125. I had to cut my hair on my head to make the weight at the end. | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| And I weighed in and immediately I had to fight, of course. | ||
| Right away? | ||
| Right away. | ||
| So did you get a chance to guzzle some water? | ||
| I just jugged down some fruit drink or something. | ||
| And when I was fighting the thing in my mind, I was like, just don't faint. | ||
| Don't faint. | ||
| Did you get close? | ||
| No, I was fine. | ||
| I wonder if you would tap or black out quicker. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Like if you got caught in a triangle or something like that. | |
| Maybe less blood in your body? | ||
| Makes sense if you have less water, right? | ||
| If you're fainting. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I never thought of that. | ||
| I would think that you would be more susceptible to blacking out, right? | ||
| If you just go to sleep faster. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Say if you're fighting your way out of a triangle, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And normally you'll be able to fight out, and this time you just... | ||
| You have no blood to fight with. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It kind of makes sense, doesn't it? | ||
| Yeah, it really does. | ||
| How much of an impact do you think that has on your performance when you're losing that kind of weight? | ||
| 40%? | ||
| 30%? | ||
| That one tournament, I was fighting like 30%, but I still won Worlds with 30%. | ||
| And then my last Worlds, doing my diet I do now, I made weight with zero problem. | ||
| I was eating pizza, pasta, and acai two days before making 125. Wow. | ||
| So it definitely has a significant impact because when I didn't do that, it was my best performance. | ||
| Have you had anybody else try to mimic this diet of yours? | ||
| So some of my friends at Daisy Fresh, my friend George, he lost like 20-30 pounds doing this diet also. | ||
| And now he's having people eating pasta in the gym at night. | ||
| It's just a matter of like a very small feeding window. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Consume as many calories as you want during that time and then the rest of the day... | ||
| You just grind out. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I would like to talk to a legitimate nutritionist about this. | ||
| The science of what's happening. | ||
| I'd like to have someone like Andrew Huberman follow you around and sort of analyze what's going on with your body while this is happening. | ||
| Well, I think another thing is cortisone. | ||
| Cortisol, I think, with stress, it makes it harder to lose weight. | ||
| Like, always cortisol affected me with losing weight from not being happy with what you're eating and stuff. | ||
| Oh, interesting. | ||
| But when I'm like this, I'm happier, and you don't have as much cortisol. | ||
| So, I don't know if that's true. | ||
| I'm not a nutritionist, but I've noticed these things with me. | ||
| Well, I mean, what's important is what works, right? | ||
| No one knows their body better than a professional athlete. | ||
| So I'm sure your understanding of what works and doesn't work for your body is pretty finely tuned. | ||
| Yeah, you're so in tune with our bodies. | ||
| I think it's also like a great example of how much people vary in their nutritional needs. | ||
| There's some people that don't feel good unless they're eating a lot of meat. | ||
| And then there's some people who don't feel good unless they're not eating meat. | ||
| And they're just eating... | ||
| It sounds like your body is very carb-centric. | ||
| Yeah, so what's interesting about myself, when I was a kid, my parents couldn't get me to eat anything except pasta. | ||
| Pasta with butter, olive oil. | ||
| There's a lot of kids like that. | ||
| I have kids. | ||
| They were trying to give me a toy. | ||
| They're like, if you eat this steak, we'll give you this toy. | ||
| LAUGHTER But my whole life, all I ate was like pasta and pizza. | ||
| So what's interesting is me eating the food that I ate since I was a little kid, my body absorbs it the best and I feel the best eating it. | ||
| So is it because I ate that for so many years as a kid that my body just knows how to deal with it? | ||
| Kind of makes sense. | ||
| Yeah, it's interesting. | ||
| It's like how alcoholics can process alcohol better. | ||
| Yeah, their homeostasis. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So when you go to a restaurant, do you just order pasta? | ||
| Always. | ||
| Pasta, pizza. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's a crazy diet, man. | ||
| I don't think there's anybody that I've ever heard of that's like a legitimate professional athlete at the highest level that eats like that. | ||
| Do you know of anybody else? | ||
| I really don't. | ||
| I don't, but it works for me. | ||
| It does work for you, but it's kind of crazy that you have the courage to try this out and to do it. | ||
| Because a lot of elite athletes, they will essentially mimic the patterns that other elite athletes in terms of diet, recovery. | ||
| Oh, that guy won a gold medal in wrestling, and this is what he does, so I'll do that. | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
| And I've tried all the diets. | ||
| I've been on every diet, but it's not sustainable for me, where I could keep training like I am. | ||
| I feel like I would want to quit jiu-jitsu if I had to eat those diets, because I did it too many years. | ||
| What have you done? | ||
| You've done keto? | ||
| Keto, I've done five meals a day, protein, small amount of carbs, or where you're deficient in just fat, you're deficient in carbs, you're deficient in protein. | ||
| I've done all of them. | ||
| Have you done them under nutritionist supervision? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And this was like while you were trying to cut weight? | ||
| Yeah, and I feel like a big thing is because of the eating stuff I've had since I was a kid, I have a hard time with portions because of that. | ||
| So because I don't have to have portions with this diet, I'm able to do it. | ||
| Yeah, I saw a video of you at a restaurant with a giant bowl of pasta and a jug of olive oil. | ||
| You're just pouring the olive oil all over the pasta. | ||
| But I guess you need those fats from that olive oil too, right? | ||
| Yeah, and it's funny because I once got kicked out of a pasta restaurant and all you could eat pasta restaurant for eating too many pasta bowls. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| So I go in. | ||
| They kicked you out? | ||
| They told me I'm done. | ||
| So I go in. | ||
| This place was in San Jose. | ||
| I go in and it says unlimited pasta bowl. | ||
| So the first thing I say to the person at the front desk, what's the record? | ||
| They're like, what do you mean? | ||
| Like, how many pasta bowls has someone ever had? | ||
| And they're like, five. | ||
| So now I'm on bowl six and the manager comes over to me like angry and he's like, you're done. | ||
| No more. | ||
| I'm like, but it's unlimited pasta bowl. | ||
| He said, your max has been expired. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| What a stupid thing to do. | ||
| But then that restaurant like a month later went out of business. | ||
| So I might have ate them out of business. | ||
| I'm sure you didn't. | ||
| But their attitude probably ate them out of business. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a shitty attitude. | ||
| Like if you say unlimited, that means unlimited. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And you don't make someone feel bad for adhering to the boundaries that you set up. | ||
| Especially I'm not this big fat guy. | ||
| I'm this small skinny guy. | ||
| I know that's probably what's really crazy, right? | ||
| You're walking in there 135 pounds, eating six giant bowls of pasta. | ||
| What a dumbass restaurant. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All those all-you-can-eat things are just, like, it's such a risky move. | ||
| Like, you get the wrong dude in there and just crush your business. | ||
| Yeah, a big fat guy goes in. | ||
| Or someone my size. | ||
| I know you don't eat meat, but... | ||
| I love meat, too, though. | ||
| I do love meat. | ||
| Do you ever eat at a Fogo de Chao? | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| I love Brazilian barbecue. | ||
| I do, too. | ||
| It's the best. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's all you can eat. | ||
| I mean, they just keep coming. | ||
| As long as you can keep that... | ||
| Yeah, you have the green on one side and the red on the other, the card. | ||
| And when the green is up, they give you all the food you want, and they come by with... | ||
| Chicken wings and just different cuts of beef and lamb. | ||
| Oh, it's fantastic. | ||
| It's one of the best ways to eat. | ||
| Yeah, it really is. | ||
| No limits the best. | ||
| But some people can put it away. | ||
| Some people can just keep eating, keep eating. | ||
| And so they have to, like, sort of get... | ||
| They have to figure out how much profit they're going to make if it's all you can eat. | ||
| They have to figure out, like, what? | ||
| How much can I charge this guy? | ||
| Like, you know what I mean? | ||
| Like, you have to... | ||
| Everyone has to get paid. | ||
| Everyone rather has to pay the same amount. | ||
| So it's, like, it's a risky proposition for them. | ||
| And it's interesting how like in those places they'll sometimes make the meat come out slow. | ||
| Like so you'll eat a lot and then they'll disappear for a while. | ||
| So you get full, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So you like meat, you just don't eat it because of performance. | ||
| So for performance it doesn't help you. | ||
| Yeah, I feel more bloated when I'm eating meat. | ||
| I feel cleaner when I'm not eating as much meat. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| I love seafood too though. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| I feel like seafood's a little cleaner. | ||
| Do you occasionally, at least a little easier to digest, do you mean? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Do you occasionally have moments where you feel like I need some more extra protein, like I'm really training extra hard? | ||
| Definitely. | ||
| If I feel like I'm a little light-headed or something, I'll have a little more meat or seafood. | ||
| Do you throw seafood on the pasta or seafood on the pizza? | ||
| Sometimes I'll make like shellfish, like squid, clams, mussels. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| You know, I love shellfish. | ||
| That's like really Sicilian that my family is. | ||
| Yeah, mine and my grandfather's side too. | ||
| I love seafood. | ||
| And one of my favorite things, it sounds disgusting, but one of my favorite pizzas is anchovies and pineapple. | ||
| What? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But you're eating pineapple on pizza. | ||
| You'll get canceled from Italians. | ||
| I don't give a fuck. | ||
| I don't give a fuck. | ||
| No, I'm kidding. | ||
| I eat regular pizza, but I also eat pizza with anchovies and pineapple. | ||
| What is that like? | ||
| Fantastic. | ||
| It's so good. | ||
| Is it like grilled pineapple in a Brazilian barbecue? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Is it like that taste? | ||
| They cook it with the pineapple on it. | ||
| But it's got cheese and tomato sauce, like normal, right? | ||
| Mozzarella cheese, tomato sauce on it, but also pineapple and anchovies. | ||
| A lot of pineapple and a lot of anchovy. | ||
| So it's a fucking thick, heavy slice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's so salty and sweet and savory. | ||
| And then you've got the sauce and the cheese and the And the saltiness. | ||
| It's all different senses. | ||
| That's my favorite pizza. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I know people say there's something wrong with me. | ||
|
unidentified
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I don't care. | |
| I don't care. | ||
| I'm accustomed to it. | ||
| I'm comfortable with it. | ||
| But yeah, that's my favorite pizza, pineapple and anchovy. | ||
| Try it sometime. | ||
| It's a weird combo. | ||
| Give it a shot. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Anchovies got to be good for you. | ||
| There's a lot of protein in anchovies, I'm sure, right? | ||
| You don't like them? | ||
| No. | ||
| You made a face. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, definitely. | ||
| Little salty fuckers. | ||
| I'll eat them right out of a can. | ||
| I bought a can of anchovies the other day. | ||
| I ate the whole can. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I love them. | ||
| It's a lot of protein, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| So when you are eating this way, you eat whatever you want, you kind of have it set up, you do it all yourself, so it's very repeatable. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And do you find a difference if you go to a restaurant? | ||
| Do you feel different when you vary from that? | ||
| If I go to a high-quality restaurant, I feel like it'll be very similar to how I cook at home. | ||
| But if I go to a lower-quality one, you could feel the difference physically when I train. | ||
| You could feel less energy, feel bloated if you're not eating good-quality foods. | ||
| With a guy like you, with this incredible schedule that you have, it seems like sustainability is like a theme with you. | ||
| It's the biggest thing. | ||
| So you've got to be comfortable and happy with everything in order to be able to put these kind of numbers in. | ||
| 100%, because if you're suffering, you can't sustain it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But people would think that just training that many hours a day is suffering. | ||
| If you're training with a purpose, you know, like if you go into training Jiu Jitsu and you're going in as a workout, I think that it would be very hard to train like I am. | ||
| But if you're going in like you're solving a math problem and you're trying to figure out answers to the math problem, then it becomes easy because you're just so focused on one thing, you forget that you're even training. | ||
| Well, you're very good at breaking down the steps to accomplish a submission. | ||
| I like watching your videos that you do, like the Mikey Lock or some other techniques, your go-to techniques. | ||
| That sort of systematic way of analyzing things and then being able to express that to other people, that seems to be very important to you. | ||
| To me, it's so important because if we could subconsciously do something, that's cool. | ||
| But if you could explain what you're doing, it's just so interesting to me how the body works and the correlations in the body. | ||
| So that's what I enjoy about Jiu Jitsu, the science of it. | ||
| Sometimes I'll go up to my friends that are in medical school or doctors and I'll be like, why is the body when I do this, this happens? | ||
| And they'll be like, how did you figure that out? | ||
| But it's just because I understand how the body works and manipulating the body gives us certain positions in Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| Brian, you're very intimately connected to your body if you're getting it to the point of death multiple times a day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, you get a rear naked choke, you're kind of getting someone to the point of death. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right there, just a few steps away, multiple times a day. | ||
| Do you think that this is one of the things that I felt from martial arts myself, and then I've recognized in other people too, that there's something that happens when you start teaching where you get better. | ||
| 100% because now you're seeing all the details you never realized. | ||
| So you'll do a move, but then when you start teaching it, you'll notice, oh my god, wait, I'm doing this detail. | ||
| And then now you're way more technical at the move, and then you evolve with the move. | ||
| That helped me so much. | ||
| There was a friend of mine from my Purple Belt days, my friend Brent, and we used to always train together. | ||
| We always had fun sessions, but I was like a little bit better than him. | ||
| And then he started teaching. | ||
| And then I had enrolled with him in like six months. | ||
| And then I roll with them, and I was like, what the fuck is going on? | ||
| Like, he immediately caught me to Kimura, and I fucked my elbow up, not tapping, trying to get out, because I was like, he doesn't catch me like this. | ||
| Like, I'm going to get out of this. | ||
| And I'm like, oh my god, I'm in fucking trouble. | ||
| And then, but, you know, I couldn't do chin-ups for like two months afterwards. | ||
| And I was like, God damn, you got so much better. | ||
| What the fuck happened? | ||
| He's like, dude, it's teaching. | ||
| Teaching just got me so much better. | ||
| Everything just got sharper. | ||
| He looked the same. | ||
| That was the thing. | ||
| It's not like he got in greater shape. | ||
| To me, he was the same guy, but he wasn't the same guy. | ||
| His pathways were very clear in his mind from position to position. | ||
| And he probably got stronger also, not physically, but just because he's so much more efficient with how he's doing the positions. | ||
| It makes you stronger. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, his leverage, I'm sure, was better. | ||
| His understanding of the positions. | ||
| Also, like, not holding on when he's about to get reversed and abandoning positions and re-establishing control. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, his probably understanding of where the errors are, where things could go wrong, was a little bit more finely tuned. | ||
| Yeah, and that's what I love about Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| That's what's interesting. | ||
| When I stopped lifting weights and doing conditioning, I actually got stronger in training because I started learning how to become more efficient with how I use my body. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Then people were like, wow, you got stronger. | ||
| But I didn't get stronger. | ||
| I just got more technical. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| So do you feel, though, that all of your muscles that you use in jiu-jitsu, that they get enough of a workout in doing just the various techniques that you really don't need to add anything to? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I feel like it's a full body workout, right? | ||
| So we don't need to do extra things. | ||
| I supplement it just with some light running, like for my nervous system, but I don't need to do anything more than that. | ||
| Like airdyne running. | ||
| Some people... | ||
| Did you try this? | ||
| Oh, I'll try it. | ||
| It's a Kill Cliff. | ||
| That one's got caffeine in it. | ||
| This one's got CBD in it. | ||
| Caffeine's awesome. | ||
| You're a caffeine junkie? | ||
| I love caffeine. | ||
| Cheers. | ||
|
unidentified
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Cheers. | |
| Caffeine for me helps me focus more. | ||
| I'm sure. | ||
| Well, I think for everybody. | ||
| That's the whole point of it. | ||
| What form do you take your caffeine in? | ||
| Green tea extract. | ||
| Yeah? | ||
| Like this. | ||
| This has green tea extract in it, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, so every time I drink green tea extract, I feel way more focused and better. | ||
| That's your stuff. | ||
| Do you drink coffee or just green tea extract? | ||
| Coffee, I don't feel the same energy from as green tea extract, so I stick more to green tea. | ||
| And Guarana, obviously. | ||
| Guarana. | ||
| Guarana, excuse me. | ||
| He gave perfect Portuguese pronunciation. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Guarana, you like also, right? | ||
| From acai. | ||
| Yeah, guarana, that's what makes acai taste so good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It also gives you a little jazz. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| People in the north won't say that because they don't believe, northern Brazil, they don't believe in guarana and acai. | ||
| Really? | ||
| They eat it like bitter without any guarana in it. | ||
|
unidentified
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What? | |
| Yeah, it tastes horrible. | ||
| But that's like so bad I'm saying that to them. | ||
| Oh, because it's like cranberry juice or something like that? | ||
| It's like not the natural one. | ||
| Oh, I see. | ||
| I see. | ||
| And then in Rio, Sao Paulo, they add Guaraná to it and it tastes amazing. | ||
| So the guarana is what makes it sweet? | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
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Really? | |
| It's the sugar in it. | ||
| Oh, I didn't know that. | ||
| So the acai berries themselves are not that sweet? | ||
| It's bitter. | ||
| Because, God, when I get an acai bowl at one of those health food places, I'm like, am I just eating a fucking ice cream? | ||
| It's so good. | ||
| It's so good. | ||
| It just tastes like I'm eating sherbet. | ||
| Like, this can't be good for you. | ||
| And that's why I eat acai every day, because it gets rid of my sugar craving. | ||
| Ah, so that's your dessert. | ||
| Yeah, I eat a pint of it. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| So how much caffeine is in that? | ||
| How much caffeine is in a pint of acai? | ||
| I don't even know, but I eat it before sleeping, and I'm able to sleep, so... | ||
| Well, you're probably so tired by the time you hit the sack. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, if you're training 12 hours in a day, I mean, even if you're just drilling, but you're probably not just drilling, you're live drilling and you're rolling. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You're doing all these different things for 12 hours during the day. | ||
| I just can't imagine how you do that without eating something. | ||
| Just snacks or... | ||
| Never, like, have a snack or a piece of fruit or anything. | ||
| No, because at night, I'm just so excited to eat what I get to nighttime. | ||
| And you've been doing it this way for how long? | ||
| Okay, so many years I've been training a lot, like high volume, but this particular way, like the last like four, five years in Vegas. | ||
| So this is the one diet, the one meal a day. | ||
| One meal a day, three or four years. | ||
| Three or four years. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I guess you've got it down. | ||
| It's working. | ||
| Yeah, and there's no one else other than a couple of guys over at Daisy Fresh that are trying to imitate that? | ||
| Not that I know of. | ||
| You might be onto something. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| You might be onto something. | ||
| I'm wondering, because I've seen your performances, and I watch you eat, and first of all, I think there is something to the fact that you're enjoying your food so much. | ||
| Enjoyment's so important for me. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, if I was not enjoying my food, I'm miserable, and then I'm training pissed off, you know, that you're just angry all day. | ||
| Well, you also enjoy training, right? | ||
| So your life is filled with things you enjoy. | ||
| That's very fortunate. | ||
|
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Passion. | |
| Yes. | ||
| I mean, if you didn't care about jiu-jitsu, those 12 hours would be horrible because you would just be doing something you don't give a fuck about and then waiting to eat pizza. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But you're enjoying what you're doing because you love jiu-jitsu and then you're enjoying your food. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Enjoying is... | ||
| We only live once, right? | ||
| So we have to enjoy what we're doing. | ||
| What's the least enjoyable part of your life? | ||
| When I'm doing this lifestyle, I really just enjoy everything. | ||
| Everything? | ||
| Competing, I hate sometimes. | ||
| Why do you hate competing? | ||
| I'm a very introvert person. | ||
| So fighting in front of people, people watching me, just talking to random people, I get anxiety, right? | ||
| But I also love it because I hate it. | ||
| So, I love pushing myself to do things that make me uncomfortable. | ||
| So, that's why I love competing, but I hate at the same time. | ||
| Love-hate! | ||
| Do you love the challenge of it, or do you love the accomplishments? | ||
| Do you love the success? | ||
| So what I love about competing is that I'm able to make the positions I'm doing valid. | ||
| So my goal when I compete is to do a move or a position that I'm working. | ||
| And if I can hit that move or position, then I feel like it's a valid move. | ||
| Because I can do it in training, but I don't count it unless I do it in the top level. | ||
| So say if you have the Marcelo Cohen fight, if you have a match like that, do you go into that match saying, I want to get this guy in a mounted triangle? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Always I have a goal that I want to do a move. | ||
| I guess because I've been competing so many years, that's the thing that satisfies me now, is hitting a thing that I'm working in the tournament. | ||
| It validates it. | ||
| And what if you get, like, you're in a match and it's, like, very close, like, it's, like, neck and neck, and you see some opportunities for something else other than this move that you set out to do? | ||
| Oh, totally. | ||
| I'll then do the other moves, but I'll be upset that I couldn't do the move I wanted. | ||
|
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But then I'll take the other move, you know. | |
| Like with Iminari, what did you go into that match wanting to do? | ||
| Because he's a leg lock fanatic. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And a master of leg locks. | ||
| Did you think, I'd like to leg lock Iminari? | ||
| My mindset going into the match was I wanted to give him my leg and then attack his back or pass his guard off of that. | ||
| I knew that he could do some damage in that spot, but I was so comfortable in those exchanges that I knew I could eventually pass his guard off of him attacking my leg. | ||
| Well, he was attacking your ankle, and I was getting nervous. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because it looked pretty fucking tight. | ||
| He's strong. | ||
| He's really good. | ||
| It was fucking tight. | ||
| But you have crazy flexible ankles. | ||
| Yeah, so I knew that he wouldn't have enough leverage to finish my foot, so I knew that I could slowly work to take the back. | ||
| How did you know he wasn't going to have enough leverage? | ||
| Just because of the fulcrum you have in Noki to finish a straight footlock, his fulcrum was so small. | ||
| Based on the position or just in general? | ||
| Based on the position that he was doing, his fulcrum was very low and I controlled his hips in a way that he couldn't bridge enough to finish me. | ||
| So I knew this going in that I could stop him from finishing me and I could slowly work to pass his guard and then take the back. | ||
| Does it also help the fact that your ankles are so flexible that you have like a little bit of extra give that other people don't have? | ||
| I feel like because the straight footlock is one of my best positions, I won Black Belt Worlds Finals in 12 seconds with it. | ||
| So that's one of my best moves. | ||
| So I'm really knowledgeable in the straight footlock. | ||
| So him doing the position on me, I know all the ins and outs of it and what makes it hard to finish. | ||
| When you tap a guy like Iminari, what is that like? | ||
| Such a legend. | ||
| For a guy like you, who was probably watching him compete when you were a little boy. | ||
| So immediately after the match, I immediately said to him, you're such a legend, it was such an honor to fight with you. | ||
| I felt his powers, just rolling with him, you know? | ||
| So it was incredible. | ||
| Well, he's responsible for such a revolution in leg locks in MMA. Outside of the Donaher death squad and Dean Lister and all those people that are responsible for bringing leg locks into jiu-jitsu and making them such a primary part of people's attacks, if you go and you watch Iminari in the early days, like, Iminari, he was tapping everybody. | ||
| George Gurjell, he tapped him, fucked his leg up with a heel hook. | ||
| Oh, he's amazing. | ||
| That Iminari roll? | ||
| I mean, he's literally named after a primary technique for entering into leg lock positions. | ||
| Yeah, now even in high school wrestling, people are doing Iminari rolls. | ||
| I saw that! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's wild! | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| So he's having such an impact on this generation from his, which is my goal, to eventually have an impact on the next generation. | ||
| Well, I think you opened up a lot of people's eyes with that Mikey Lock. | ||
| I guarantee you that. | ||
| I mean, I'm sure you're going to have more to come, but that one alone, a lot of people are examining that and like, holy shit, this is very legit. | ||
| Yeah, but he did his role in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| He had an impact on my generation, you know, so he's such a legend. | ||
| Props to Minori. | ||
| Are you lined up to compete against someone else? | ||
| And once you beat a guy like Iminari, is there pressure to... | ||
| That's the top of the food chain. | ||
| Such a legend. | ||
| Yeah, especially with MMA and Jiu-Jitsu, and especially in Asia. | ||
| Iminari is enormously popular. | ||
| So I know that at the end of the year, I'm probably having a match with Mighty Mouse, a jiu-jitsu match. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Oh, interesting. | ||
| Props to Mighty Mouse, huh? | ||
| No, he's the true martial artist doing all the disciplines, Muay Thai, MMA, jiu-jitsu. | ||
| How about the fact that he fought Rod Tang in that mixed match? | ||
| So he goes one round with a Muay Thai and then one round MMA moves, takes him down, strangles him. | ||
| Insane. | ||
| But he was holding his own and Muay Thai, or at least enough defensively to not get fucked up. | ||
| Because a lot of people thought, like, man, how is he going to get through that first round with Rod Tang? | ||
| Because Rod Tang is going to know that it's going to go to a second round, it'll be MMA. But the first round, he can't take him down. | ||
| He's going to go full out. | ||
| No, it's horrifying fighting Ratang Muay Thai. | ||
| But isn't that fascinating that one is interested in doing something like that? | ||
| I really wish the UFC would take chances like that and have those kind of matches where you have a mixed match, where you have one round MMA, one round full Muay Thai rules, one round back to MMA. To do it that way is amazing. | ||
| Well, what it's doing is it brings the Muay Thai audience and the MMA audience together, and it shows true martial arts, and I feel like one championship really does that so well. | ||
| And they just are joining Amazon Prime USA now, so then Americans will be able to start watching and they'll be able to see these mismatches. | ||
| So it'll be streamed on Amazon Prime, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And when does that start? | ||
| That starts September 30th, my fight for the belt. | ||
| So by September 30th, you're going to be good to go with your appendix issue and all that jazz? | ||
| Well, hopefully. | ||
| It seems that way right now because I can start training hard again like mid-August. | ||
| That's enough time for you? | ||
| Yeah, I'll be fine because I'm staying in shape. | ||
| Right out of the hospital, I ran like 10 miles. | ||
| I wasn't supposed to. | ||
| The doctor was like, you could lightly walk and jog. | ||
| So you ran 10 miles? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's hilarious. | ||
| But it doesn't seem like I injured myself. | ||
| Congratulations. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| So who are you going against in September? | ||
| I think I'm competing with Cleber Souza. | ||
| His name is. | ||
| He's a high-level person from Brazil. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And he's going to be a great match. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| And so this is for the one championship jujitsu belt? | ||
| The first belt in one championship history in jujitsu. | ||
| And how many belts are they going to have? | ||
| How many weight classes for jujitsu? | ||
| It's going to be the same as Muay Thai kickboxing and MMA. Oh, so flyweight, bantamweight. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| So jujitsu is going to be like that now, and it's the biggest platform ever, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I saw they did that match with Gary Tonin. | ||
| Was it Kai? | ||
| Ty Ruto. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ty Ruto. | |
| Yes. | ||
| And he caught him in a Darce choke. | ||
| In a Darce. | ||
| I was like, damn, those twins are fucking amazing. | ||
| Amazing. | ||
| Amazing. | ||
| They're so talented and so young. | ||
| They're so good. | ||
| They are twins, right? | ||
| Yeah, they're twins. | ||
| They're so fucking talented. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're so aggressive too. | ||
| The way they attack, attack, attack. | ||
| Their style is so fan-friendly. | ||
| How I see it is, we're a part of this generation that's spreading jiu-jitsu to a new platform. | ||
| We have a responsibility to make our matches exciting. | ||
| So the guys that are fighting, not submitting or finishing, I feel like... | ||
| Who's going to want to watch that that doesn't know jiu-jitsu? | ||
| It's so boring. | ||
| So one championship, the format is the winner is whoever has the most submission catches. | ||
| And real submissions, like legit submissions. | ||
| So it forces you that if you want to win the match, you have to be going for the finish. | ||
| And that's what's going to make people that don't know what Jiu Jitsu is, like Muay Thai, kickboxing, able to appreciate Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| And then if you stall and you get a yellow card, and now you're losing money from your fight, your salary that you're getting paid to fight, you start losing a percentage of it as you get yellow cards. | ||
| Oh, so they do yellow cards in one. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Have they always done yellow cards in one? | ||
| I'm not sure, but now they do. | ||
| That was one of the more controversial yet interesting aspects of pride, the fact that they did that. | ||
| Yeah, the old pride. | ||
| The old pride, when they gave people yellow cards. | ||
| I think they took away 10% of your purse every time they did that. | ||
| It gives you an incentive that you have to fight. | ||
| You're there to perform, right? | ||
| And the only way jiu-jitsu will get to this platform and stay here is if we're finishing matches and we're making it exciting. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, I remember when my match went in Minari, like, Muay Thai people, kickboxing people that don't even know jiu-jitsu were able to watch it and, like, they thought it was cool. | ||
|
unidentified
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Right. | |
| So, to me, I did my job and the Rutolos are doing that also. | ||
| And Gordon will do that. | ||
| Like, everyone that fights on the one championship platform, we have that responsibility. | ||
| Win or lose, you have to fight. | ||
| Well, when you look at the Rutolo brothers, when you look at Gary Tonin and you and Gordon, one thing that you guys all have in common is you all have very attack-based styles, and you take chances, and you go for the finish. | ||
| The problem with jiu-jitsu in tournament format form is when there's points involved for takedowns. | ||
| Points involved for passing, and points involved for just positions. | ||
| There's a lot of people that get really good at positional control, but they don't get good at submissions. | ||
| And they win world championships, but they don't submit anybody. | ||
| Well, I think it has to do with the rule set and the incentive to submit someone is not that high in those formats. | ||
| If to submit someone is the only way you win, whoever has the most submission catches, it forces you. | ||
| You have to go finish the fight. | ||
| Yeah, and I think that's really what Jiu Jitsu is all about. | ||
| Jiu Jitsu is all about submissions. | ||
| It's not about passing guard and holding side control. | ||
| That doesn't mean anything. | ||
| If you don't do anything, that doesn't mean anything. | ||
| Totally, I agree. | ||
| Now, when you think about the future of jiu-jitsu, do you think that this kind of 1FC format thing is where it's going to go to? | ||
| Where you're going to see larger crowds and then integrated into MMA cards like this? | ||
| I really think that this is the future jiu-jitsu. | ||
| It's going to be like how UFC, all the major MMA organizations, it's going to be that with jiu-jitsu athletes. | ||
| So jiu-jitsu athletes will be able to make a living just competing at the biggest stage. | ||
| Endorsements, everything is going to grow so much like this, you know? | ||
| It certainly has potential, right? | ||
| Because we see how much better it is now. | ||
| Like, I started training in 96, and there was tournaments and everything like that. | ||
| When I was born. | ||
| Yeah, when you were a little baby. | ||
| I was born in 1996. Perfect. | ||
| So there was no professional option, really, as a professional jiu-jitsu fighter. | ||
| There's no way anybody could actually count on paying their bills. | ||
| And no way anybody could become actually famous, like Gordon. | ||
| It's kind of crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's so crazy, you know, and all my old jiu-jitsu friends all had to go to MMA back in the day because there was no money in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| So they had to go to MMA. Now it's like, do you have to go to MMA? Not really. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Do you spend time working on wrestling? | ||
| Do you spend time working on takedowns or judo or anything like that? | ||
| So when I was a kid, I did a lot of wrestling. | ||
| I actually got second place in Florida Seahorse Wrestling Tournament when I was a kid. | ||
| So I love wrestling, but when I started training in the gym with just all these big guys, I felt like I was going to get hurt wrestling these guys because they would just throw me. | ||
| So I started becoming a guard player, just training with so many big people. | ||
| I got forced to be a guard player. | ||
| But I do appreciate and love wrestling, and I am learning it actively still. | ||
| Well, the one thing about the guard, especially when you're dealing with wrestlers, is they will willingly go into that position. | ||
| It's not a position that people avoid. | ||
| If you pull guard, guys will get on top of you. | ||
| And then if you are accustomed to that and that's where your game starts, that's where you go. | ||
| You know, we see guys like Jeremiah Vance. | ||
| Do you know Jeremiah Vance? | ||
| He's one of the 10th Planet guys that has this fucking wicked guard. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| His guard is ridiculous. | ||
| He's like, you know there's guys where you roll with them and their guard is so scary. | ||
| Yeah, so many attacks. | ||
| Yeah, it's just so different than everybody else's. | ||
| And other guys you roll with, their guard is basically like a time for you to take a break. | ||
| You could hang on. | ||
| As long as you're defensively responsible, you're okay. | ||
| But Jeremiah is terrifying from his back. | ||
| And that's always very interesting to me, to see guys who have this one position down to just such a science. | ||
| Well, it's such an efficient position, you know, especially in competing jiu-jitsu. | ||
| Obviously, in a self-defense situation, our knowledge of wrestling, we need knowledge of wrestling to take someone down. | ||
| And someone that does no combat experience that's in a fistfight on the street, we could all take down that jiu-jitsu, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But in competition, it's more efficient to be on bottom in terms of that I don't have to take someone down and then progress. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You could just sit down and immediately start attacking the person in submissions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I feel like if I take someone down, I have to do one extra step. | ||
| But if I'm already in my guard, I can already start attacking submissions so I can get to the point. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's funny that there's like a negative stigma or stereotype about guard pulling. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| It's very weird. | ||
| They're like, oh, if there were punches thrown. | ||
| But again, if there were punches thrown in a street fight, the person has no experience in fighting. | ||
| We would kill the person. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We would be able to take them down and like all of our knowledge in Jiu Jitsu we would all be able to take them down. | ||
| There's something to be said for the fact that you are vulnerable to strikes in certain positions and that one of the things that's really interesting that has kind of emerged recently is combat Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you see that from from Eddie Bravo's invention like what happens with palm strikes and open slaps like a lot of guys are getting fucked up. | ||
| I saw someone get knocked out even. | ||
| Props to Eddie, bro. | ||
| He's awesome. | ||
| It's a great idea, right? | ||
| Isn't it? | ||
| Yeah, it's like an in-between MMA and Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| Yeah, and it's also in my eyes, it's sort of like a proving ground for technical positions. | ||
| Because there are some positions where someone really could just punch you in the face. | ||
| Because you're committing two arms to one leg and you're struggling to try to secure it. | ||
| And as you're struggling, you're kind of turning towards them and you're too close. | ||
| They could just pummel you in the face. | ||
| And now we're seeing that. | ||
| Like, oh yeah, this is probably not realistic. | ||
| This is not sound. | ||
| Yeah, and I feel like it's a whole other element and variable that we don't think about in Jiu-Tzu. | ||
| That there's punches, like, oh, if I'm holding air, boom. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And people are forced to think about those things when they actually do MMA. But this is like a really interesting sort of a middle ground. | ||
| I think for someone transitioning to MMA, it's actually a great format because it teaches you, okay, if I'm doing this, I'm going to get hit in the face. | ||
| Yeah, and it's really popular. | ||
| Yeah, and for viewers, it's way more exciting. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Very exciting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's fun. | ||
| What do you do outside of jiu-jitsu? | ||
| Like, what is fun for Mikey Musumechi? | ||
| I love hiking. | ||
| I love going on hikes. | ||
| In Vegas, I go to this place called Gold Strike. | ||
| It's like the best hike in the world. | ||
| You were telling me about this. | ||
| This is nuts. | ||
| Like, tell me the story about your COVID experience there. | ||
| So, I had COVID in January. | ||
| Again, I've had it a few times now. | ||
| And when I had COVID in January, I lost my taste and smell. | ||
| So I was doing sauna. | ||
| I was doing many things. | ||
| Nothing was bringing it back. | ||
| And I was trying to eat pizza and I couldn't taste the pizza. | ||
| It was a hard time for me. | ||
| That's when life got really hard. | ||
| Just a bland cardboard pizza. | ||
| Yeah, and I felt like I knew what it tasted like, but I couldn't taste it. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So, I go hiking in Gold Strike, and I was out for like three hours, and I went hiking, a long hike, and I come back from this hike, and all of a sudden, my taste and smell came back after doing this hike. | ||
| I don't know the science to that. | ||
| Maybe someone listening to this will be able to explain that to us. | ||
| Have you done other hikes during the same time? | ||
| No. | ||
| This was your first hike? | ||
| My first hike, but I was training with another friend that had COVID in my garage. | ||
| We both had it, so we just stayed together and just trained. | ||
| We were doing sauna, and my taste and smell were gone. | ||
| But were you still positive? | ||
| Yes, 100%. | ||
| I was still sick with COVID. So do you think you guys were giving each other COVID back and forth? | ||
| Like you're about to recover and then you give it to each other again? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| We got over that time, you know? | ||
| I wonder if you both had different strains of COVID. Maybe. | ||
| So you're like combining strains to some fucking super virus. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| In my garage. | ||
| In your garage, you're in a laboratory. | ||
| Because it's interesting that if that was in January, is that when you said you got it? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That should have been the Omicron strain, I believe. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Which is not necessarily known for taste and smell. | ||
| That's usually the Delta or the original. | ||
| I wonder if you guys had another one. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, I don't know. | ||
| All I know is I tested positive and when I did that hike in Gold Strike, I came back and my taste and smell came back to me. | ||
| So it was like the best thing ever. | ||
| But you were saying that that area is very unusual. | ||
| The energy of it. | ||
| It's next to the Hoover Dam, so the energy from the rocks goes through you, if that makes sense. | ||
| You just feel the energy from the place. | ||
| Just from all the water flowing? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I felt like it just cleansed me. | ||
| I don't know what happened, but maybe the fresh air. | ||
| But after that hike, I felt so much better. | ||
| So maybe it was coincidence, but maybe there's something to being... | ||
| Yeah, I mean, maybe. | ||
| There's real science to being in nature and that being in nature is good for human bodies. | ||
| No more vaccines. | ||
| Just everyone go to gold stripes. | ||
| Can you imagine? | ||
| Well, there's no real protocol for restoring your smell and your taste after you've had COVID that I'm aware of. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I've heard alpha lipoic acid. | ||
| That was Huberman said that alpha lipoic acid has some positive benefits. | ||
| Some people said that NAD drips, or they've done IV drips of NAD, that's restored their sense of taste and smell. | ||
| But it's not like there's a medical procedure or a medical protocol that you could follow. | ||
| Yeah, I don't really know. | ||
| All I know is that helped me, and COVID sucks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, it sounds like it sucked for you. | ||
| I got lucky. | ||
| I got on the right meds, monoclonal antibodies and IV vitamins, and I was better in a couple days. | ||
| I had Delta. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, I had it in September. | ||
| That was the worst one I had. | ||
| And in September, I would run six miles every day during this time. | ||
| When I had COVID, I couldn't walk a mile because my lungs, my muscles, all of my body felt like it was deteriorating for many months. | ||
| I felt like... | ||
| Do you think you ignored it when it first started coming on? | ||
| You kept training? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| See, that's the thing I'm... | ||
| The reason why I'm asking this is the people that I know that are young and healthy that wound up getting COVID really bad, they tried to keep working out. | ||
| Like Hamzat. | ||
| Hamzat Shemaev. | ||
| He's a UFC top contender. | ||
| He had COVID very, very bad. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But one of the things that he did was he wouldn't stop training. | ||
| So he got COVID and he kept training. | ||
| And then he was supposed to recover and rest and relax, back to the gym, keep training, spitting up blood, coughing up blood, and he wound up getting hospitalized on more than one occasion. | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| Just too tough. | ||
| Just too tough and not being smart about it, not taking the time off and letting your body recover. | ||
| So I wonder, because you got it so bad, it seems so crazy because you're so healthy, and all you do is basically work your body out and exercise. | ||
| Yeah, and like you said, not resting. | ||
| In our minds, we always are pushing. | ||
| We're always pushing. | ||
| So our tolerance to pain is a lot higher, I guess, as athletes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So we think, okay, we're okay. | ||
| We're just under the weather. | ||
| Let's keep training. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's what I'm saying. | ||
| Because with you, you're also, I mean, also another guy that that happened to was Cody Garbrandt in the UFC. He did the exact same thing. | ||
| He got COVID and he just kept training, kept training. | ||
| And he didn't even know he had COVID until he went to Mike Tyson's hot boxing show. | ||
| So he was going to be a guest on Mike Tyson's show and they swab him and they say, hey man, you got fucking COVID. And he's like, oh, that's what's been going on for the past month. | ||
| So for more than a month, he had COVID and he kept training. | ||
| And his body just kept it in him. | ||
| And he was just exhausted all the time. | ||
| Yeah, the exhaustion. | ||
| So tough, though, he kept training. | ||
| And that's probably you because you're so used to doing it. | ||
| You're so used to, first of all, talk about competing after you dehydrated the shit out of yourself and competing at 30%. | ||
| So you're used to that. | ||
| Like the mental toughness involved in just being able to grind through. | ||
| And then you think about this wacky diet you have where you're only eating at night. | ||
| So you're going all day long training with nothing in your stomach. | ||
| You're probably tired. | ||
| You're probably beaten up. | ||
| So an extra level of beaten up to you is probably like you weren't even noticing it. | ||
| Yeah, like you just think, okay, I just have to keep pushing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And so when did you know that you had it? | ||
| I knew I had it when I couldn't walk. | ||
| And I couldn't lift things and my body was just so messed up, you know? | ||
| And had you been training that whole time up till that point? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, you probably killed yourself. | ||
| Yeah, and then that was it. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| So it seems like your life is so dominated by Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like your whole life. | ||
| Right now, at this time in my life, it's my passion, and I'm trying to live my passion to the fullest. | ||
| I have a gift. | ||
| I feel like God gave me this gift, and I want to use the gift He gave me. | ||
| And now, other than learning languages and hiking and stuff like that, do you have any other hobbies? | ||
| I don't even know how you would have time for them. | ||
| Well, I love climbing also. | ||
| Indoor climbing is so much fun. | ||
| That's got to be good for jiu-jitsu, right? | ||
| That's the most similar thing I've felt to jiu-jitsu. | ||
| And Vegas is like the mecca besides Colorado and America for climbing. | ||
| Yeah, Alex Honnold lives there. | ||
| Yeah, so I would climb a lot for fun. | ||
| Hiking, climbing, physical things. | ||
| I love studying languages. | ||
| I love just learning in general. | ||
| Anything I can learn, I really enjoy. | ||
| How do you have the time to even learn things? | ||
| I don't, but if I have a second free, I'll read things. | ||
| I just enjoy learning. | ||
| And when you're competing at such a high level, have you ever done any mental training? | ||
| Have you worked with a sports psychologist or have you read anything about sports psychology? | ||
| I've read some things about law of attraction and things like that, but I've always just tried to work hard on just embracing the things. | ||
| I once worked with a guy named Eric Parker, and he explained some of the feelings with competing to me when I was a kid. | ||
| Was he a sports psychologist? | ||
| Not a sports psychologist. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Just a coach? | |
| Yeah, just a coach and a friend and mentor. | ||
| That helped me a lot, but besides that, nothing really. | ||
| So it's just a lifetime of competition and you're accustomed to it and you've devised your own strategies to mitigate the issues? | ||
| Yeah, so in my mind, like I told you before, anytime I feel discomfort, I have to do it. | ||
| So I had this healthy part of me. | ||
| I don't know if it's healthy, but it's crazy. | ||
| Anytime I felt like I didn't want to do that, I had to do it. | ||
| So with competing, I always felt this push. | ||
| And it's not natural for me to compete in front of people. | ||
| Like I said, I'm really introvert. | ||
| But because of that, I want to do it. | ||
| I also represent a different part of jiu-jitsu, I feel. | ||
| A lot of the people in jiu-jitsu are big, alpha, buff guys. | ||
| I'm kind of like a nerd. | ||
| You wouldn't think that I would be a jiu-jitsu person. | ||
| And I feel like I show people that you don't have to be a tough guy, a big, tough guy. | ||
| I always like to talk about that, the nerd assassins. | ||
| Because there's so many of them. | ||
| And I think it's really unique. | ||
| Like Gabe Tuttle, the guy who's the head instructor of 10th Planet here. | ||
| He's so technical and so smart. | ||
| And if you saw him, you would just think he's a regular guy. | ||
| But he's a fucking stone-cold killer. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| But he's a small guy and just really smart and really understands jiu-jitsu and, like yourself, is just enamored with it and loves it. | ||
| Yeah, like that image of jiu-jitsu that people think you have to be a fighter, this and that. | ||
| It's not really that way, you know? | ||
| And that's what's so beautiful about it. | ||
| It is what it's beautiful about it is that there's so many levels of complexity. | ||
| And that when you see a guy like yourself that is at this very, very high level in world-class competition, you see these levels of complexity playing out in terms of offense and defense and To someone like myself that's been doing jujitsu forever, it's so thrilling. | ||
| I really, really love it. | ||
| Who's number one when they do that in Austin? | ||
| I'm in my glory. | ||
| I love it. | ||
| Because I get to sit down there and watch people like yourself and Gordon Ryan and the Rotolo brothers and all these incredible competitors. | ||
| And it's like, it's so high level. | ||
| And when they have it in that format, I really enjoy that format. | ||
| That who's number one format is great. | ||
| Yeah, and something interesting you said about strength and size in jutsu. | ||
| I think it's interesting how many of the world champions, they all train differently. | ||
| And you don't have to have a high IQ in jutsu. | ||
| You could have a low IQ, but then you have to be more athletic. | ||
| There's a certain box that you use to your advantage. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So one person could just be physically really strong by lifting a lot of weights, and then they use that. | ||
| Another person could be a freak athlete. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| And not really that smart, and they could use that. | ||
| Another person could be a higher IQ, not really athletic at all, and then they could use that. | ||
| So I feel like every... | ||
| So it's not a one-size-fits-all for jitsu, and I feel like that's why people are like, oh, how could you train that way? | ||
| How could you train that way? | ||
| It's because everyone's different, and embracing your strength is what makes the top people the top people. | ||
| Do you get together with any of the top people and compare how you handle training and how you handle learning and deciphering certain positions? | ||
| Well, just from training 21 years, I've been able to observe many of the top people and how they train. | ||
| And from that, it gave me ideas of how they train. | ||
| And like I said, I've noticed all of them train a little differently. | ||
| None of them exactly the same. | ||
| So that shows you how everyone is individual in Jiu Jitsu and they have to learn differently. | ||
| Do you know anybody that's on your level that trains like you, where you basically are in charge of your own training and you devise your own strategies for dealing with various problems? | ||
| I think Hodger Gracie. | ||
| Does he? | ||
| I think that when he lives, he lives in the UK, right? | ||
| And I think that he is known for just training with lower belts and he made his own training, right? | ||
| Isn't it crazy that that's when he reached his peak? | ||
| Yeah, training with lower belts. | ||
| Eddie Bravo used to tell me that when I was first starting out. | ||
| He said, just train with blue belts. | ||
| He goes, just strangle blue belts all day long. | ||
| I go, really? | ||
| He goes, yeah, it's like live drilling, but they can't really stop you from doing it. | ||
| Because if you're rolling with a black belt, he's going to have an answer for all the things you're doing, and you won't really be able to practice any offense. | ||
| You're just going to be defending yourself all the time. | ||
| But if you roll with a blue belt, you'll be able to just cut through all of his stuff and just keep tapping him over and over again. | ||
| And for them... | ||
| It's good because they get to understand, like, hey, this is what happens when you roll with a black belt. | ||
| And for you, it's great because you get to sharpen your moves in a much better way. | ||
| And he's right. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| That is the best way to get better. | ||
| Yeah, totally. | ||
| You have live resistance. | ||
| It's like live resistance drilling, and you slowly could build your game. | ||
| But also helping them get better at the same time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And making the room, everyone improve in the room. | ||
| Well, it's very important, even with this idea of rolling with lower-class belts, where they don't have the skill to compete with you, it's very important for them to know that there are people out there that can do that to them. | ||
| Because I remember the first time that happened to me, when I first started doing jiu-jitsu, I was super delusional. | ||
| And I was like, I'm a good athlete, I'm fucking strong, I'll be fine. | ||
| And I rolled with this guy who was my size who just manhandled me. | ||
| He just did whatever he wanted to me. | ||
| Tapped me, armbarred me, some purple belt guy. | ||
| And I remember leaving class going, wow. | ||
| I didn't know that that was possible. | ||
| Like that it would be so easy for someone to just roll over me. | ||
| Just stomp me into the dirt. | ||
| And then I realized like, oh, I could get to where he's at. | ||
| He didn't have like crazy physical attributes. | ||
| He wasn't bigger than me or stronger than me. | ||
| We were kind of the same size. | ||
| So it was a real wake-up call. | ||
| You got to feel his level. | ||
| Yes, I got to feel his level. | ||
| And I also got to realize that he's only a purple belt. | ||
| Like, his level was not nearly like black belt level, which is even more intriguing to me. | ||
| And it got me obsessed with jiu-jitsu. | ||
| That one ass-kicking, early on when I was a white belt, just like a little light bulb went off in my head. | ||
| I was like, oh my god. | ||
| Like, this is a wild sport. | ||
| Like, the levels... | ||
| Because in striking... | ||
| I feel like so much in striking, once you know the technique, so much of it is timing and movement, and so much of it is if you have a really good athlete with natural power, they have certain advantages. | ||
| There was no advantages to be had in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| All of it is like, you didn't know what the fuck you were doing, and some guy's just gonna come along and do whatever he wants to you. | ||
| But I think it's important for the beginner just to know that that's down the road. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| They have to feel that level and it inspires them like, okay, one day I could be like this. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| One day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So you don't know how much longer you're going to keep doing this. | ||
| Do you think you're going to keep doing this like another 10 years? | ||
| Do you have a goal of when to stop training and competing? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's my lifestyle right now. | ||
| So right now this is my path in life. | ||
| So I'm competing. | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| So no safety net. | ||
| Just keep going. | ||
| Well, at any point I could go to law school. | ||
| Really? | ||
| I could in the future. | ||
| But right now, jujitsu is it. | ||
| Do you think that's what you'll do when you retire from competition? | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| I think I want to just do jujitsu. | ||
| Being a lawyer is going to be hard. | ||
| That's boring. | ||
| You deal with a bunch of cases you don't give a shit about. | ||
| I think that being an instructor, that's what's so cool about Jiu Jitsu. | ||
| The amount of people you could bring to Jiu Jitsu and help make their days better. | ||
| You know, like if they're having a hard day. | ||
| Jiu Jitsu is a place for them to go instead of doing something negative. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I feel like instructors really deserve recognition for that. | ||
| Oh, I think so, too. | ||
| And I think jujitsu gyms, schools and academies, they become like a central place where people feel home. | ||
| They feel comforted. | ||
| They feel like they're with like-minded people and comrades and people they train with. | ||
| It's very much like a family. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And you could train your whole life. | ||
| So there's people training that, like you'll see on the computer, there's people training like 80 years old. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So you could do this your whole life. | ||
| Do you know Dave Mustaine from Megadeth? | ||
| No. | ||
| You know who that guy is? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's training in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| He started when he was 58 years old. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Apparently he has a black belt in karate, black belt in taekwondo, and now I think he's a purple or a brown belt in jiu-jitsu. | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| I'm like, fuck yeah, dude. | ||
| And then there's Maynard Keenan from Tool. | ||
| He's a brown belt in jujitsu, very close to getting a black belt. | ||
| He's working his way there. | ||
| So it's exciting when people, like, they do it later in life and, you know, they get obsessed with it. | ||
| Yeah, there's never a time that you can't do jujitsu. | ||
| Right. | ||
| No, it's beautiful. | ||
| It's a beautiful art. | ||
| And you represent it very well, my friend. | ||
| Thank you, sir. | ||
| You really do. | ||
| It's fun to see you out there, and it's very exciting. | ||
| And I know a lot of people that don't like my friend Brian Simpson, who knows who you are, who doesn't have shit to do with jiu-jitsu. | ||
| He's not training at all. | ||
| But he's seen a bunch of your videos online, and he gets excited about it. | ||
| That's so cool. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's cool. | |
| Well, that's one of the cool things about YouTube today and social media is that you can have a real fan base that has zero training. | ||
| They're not training at all. | ||
| They just enjoy watching you compete and get things done. | ||
| It's fun. | ||
| Yeah, and then when they watch, they'll start doing jiu-jitsu and then we can get more and more people in it. | ||
| That's why I'm so blessed for Shatri with one championship for what he's doing to jiu-jitsu and that's why I'm in Singapore right now. | ||
| I want to be a part of that growth. | ||
| That's fucking cool, man. | ||
| So tell everybody how to find you on social media. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| What is your Instagram? | ||
| Is Mikey Musumeci? | ||
| Yes, Mikey Musumeci. | ||
| Spell it, please. | ||
| M-I-K-E-Y and then M-U-S-U-M-E-C-I. That's my Instagram page. | ||
| There's a lot of pizza and pasta on the page besides YouTube. | ||
| Do you use Facebook at all? | ||
| Yeah, I have a Facebook page also, but primarily Instagram. | ||
| And Twitter at all? | ||
| No. | ||
| Good for you. | ||
| Yeah, I don't... | ||
| And so the Who's Number One match will be September what? | ||
| My one championship match. | ||
| Sorry, one championship. | ||
| That will be September 30th and I'll be fighting for the belt. | ||
| Are you doing any more who's number one matches? | ||
| Not right now. | ||
| Right now, one championship because I'm living in Singapore. | ||
| Right, so you do that, that's September, fighting for the belt and then you said somewhere around the end of the year maybe the Mighty Mouse match? | ||
| Yes, also for one championship. | ||
| There's just so many interesting things going on right now so I'm so excited. | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| I'm excited, too. | ||
| I'm a fan, and it was really cool to have you in here and talk about this, man. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you. | |
| It was an honor to be on your show, sir. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| My pleasure. | ||
| Honored to have you. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
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All right. | |
| That's it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Bye. |
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