Jan Irvin reveals how intelligence agencies like the CIA and Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) suppressed psychedelic knowledge, from Alan Dulles’ elite networks to Ernest Hemingway’s confirmed surveillance. Ancient texts—including The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross—suggest Christianity’s origins may tie to entheogens like DMT or mandrakes, while modern research (MAPS conferences, 92% ibogaine addiction success) shifts focus from fear to medical potential. Yet legal barriers persist, even as ayahuasca churches gain approval. Irvin debunks pseudoscience (Pinchbeck’s Quetzalcoatl claims) and critiques media manipulation (Time Life’s LSD role), urging the trivium to combat misinformation—while Rogan pushes for public exposure of psychedelics’ transformative truths. [Automatically generated summary]
Anthony Bardaine's a chef, and he's got this television show.
He was a chef.
Now he's pretty much like sort of this traveling guy who samples food in different restaurants all throughout the world, but more is like a commentator on the cultures of these places, you know, and uses food as sort of like a way to get you to know the culture.
You know, uses like eating with indigenous people and these like tribes and weird fucking crazy places.
And so I met him and, you know, just knowing some, just, it's the weirdest fucking thing when you admire someone and you like their work and they know who you are too, you know, and all of a sudden you're talking about stuff.
And he came to my comedy show.
I'm like, it seems like it shouldn't freak me out at this point in my life.
But I'm still like, holy shit, Anthony Bourdain's in the fucking audience.
Like it was, it was weird, you know?
It was interesting.
He's a bad motherfucker.
I admire him very much.
He's one of the most interesting guys on television.
Or are we not supposed to say he was telling us that?
They've already started showing it.
But he doesn't do the stunts anymore because his fucking body was falling apart because this poor guy's eating 20-pound cheeseburgers every night while they're filming.
You know what I mean?
He eats these ridiculous food challenges where he would have to eat some insane amounts of food, right?
No, it's just like, I don't, if it was a guy versus girl jiu-jitsu, I'm 100% in.
I'll fuck my knee.
Who cares?
You know, I just don't feel like rolling around on the floor with a guy.
I don't know why.
Same reason if somebody goes, hey, would you rather hang out with three guys and watch sports or would you rather hang out with three girls and watch porn?
Yeah, I would have to say that it's sort of a learned thing.
It's like an acquired taste.
I've been doing it for so long.
It's just totally normal to me.
But there's times that I've thought about it.
There's times when I'm rolling with a guy and I know his sweat is in my mouth.
Yeah.
There's no getting around it.
There's no getting around it.
Like if a guy, like say if you are like, you're doing no gi and a guy's on top of you and you got him in half guard or something like that and he's sweating, his chest could easily be on your face.
And of course there's that, you know, MRSA, the antibiotic-resistant staph infection that they have now that's really dangerous because it's a very, very strong form of it, and it's very hard to kill.
You know, and what I've found, one of the best things to get rid of like athlete's foot and shit, which I'm sure you get in an environment like that a lot, is apple cider vinegar.
You rub that stuff on it a couple of times and it's gone.
For people who don't know, this is very controversial.
Obviously.
But there's a thing called urine therapy, and the idea behind it is that your body processes waste, and that waste comes out in the form of shit, but that also when water waste comes out, the water that comes out of your body is actually sterile and that there are some sort of nutrients in it and antibodies when you're trying to get over colds and things of that nature.
And so a lot of doctors say it's utter, complete, total horseshit.
But people in indigenous cultures, for instance, have been doing that to try to cure diseases and illnesses for a long, long time.
Obviously, modern medicine is way better than drinking your own piss.
Well, you know, what's interesting is in India, every year, every couple of years, they have a meeting of doctors who meet up to discuss the latest research in urine therapy.
I knew somebody who went to the doctor in South America for a skin problem and was told to drink their urine.
So it is, it's not, you know, it's very rare, I think, especially in the United States, but I think in India and China and certain places in South America, it has been adopted.
But it's interesting is like people that do it for health reasons, they say that it enables them to monitor their body on a regular basis of what their intake is because they immediately taste it and it's like, oh, shit.
You know, I mean, I'll do it on a regular basis, but there was a big thing about Leoto Machita in the UFC, that Leoto Machita does it, and that his father, who is this karate master, has trained him since he was a young boy, and he recycles his urine every morning.
Every morning he gets up and drinks his pee.
Who the fuck knows, man?
It might be bullshit, but if people have been doing it for that long, there might be some merit in it.
Yeah, I've had people come up to me when I've given lectures and say that they've taken it for various gout or leg problems and pain problems, and after four to six, eight weeks, their problems cleared up.
There was a guy who used to post on the message board until he got too creepy and someone banned him.
I forget what his deal was, but he would get these girls that didn't have any money and he would take care of them for a little while and eventually do a bunch of dirty shit to them.
And write stories about this.
And one of the things he would do is make his loads taste as disgusting as possible.
So he would talk about the asparagus coffee loads that he would show up.
But I remember he made a lot of people angry because they were like, well, if this guy's telling the truth, he's a real piece of shit as a human being.
I didn't like who he was, but it was very compelling.
I was like, this is interesting.
It's like, this is, it's obviously very good and very well written because the idea behind it is kind of gross to me that you would like go out of your way to take some poor woman who doesn't know what to do with her life and she's really broke and you force her into you know doing weird shit for you because you know that's how you get off and then you write about it you know like that's like you're victimizing people and why are you doing that but not knowing whether or not it was true or not true you know and choosing to look at it from the point of view like maybe it's just fiction maybe this guy's just into the mind of a creep you know who knows who knows but
It's really well written.
But he was all into just gross loads.
It was apparently a recipe.
unidentified
Joe Diaz will tell you how to make it come out like shotguns.
I stayed at this horrible hotel last night we were in Vegas.
And I didn't know it was a hotel that's next to a strip club that we did a show at.
And I think the guy that owns the strip club owns the hotel.
And it's one of those boutique hotels where you walk in.
There's nice paintings everywhere.
Like every room was a different theme.
of painting and uh it was really cool but after six o'clock it turns into a nightclub that op that's open until like 8 a.m and it's just the gay the gay people the ravers 6 a.m 8 a.m it goes about no but what time does it start 6 p.m 6 p.m so we we got back to the hotel and there was like you know lines of people getting in the hotel and the red rope and they're like you have to wait in line i'm like no we're staying here and they're like oh go through we go and the whole lobby is a rave i'm like what the fuck is this
So we go upstairs and then I'm looking out the window and it was one of those views where it's like you're just looking at air conditioning units like it's the roof.
But there's just people that were sneaking in through like this air conditioning unit and going up there and doing like crazy drugs and having sex right outside your window.
Yeah, there was a door going through the floor and they were climbing out and like all these people were hanging out on the roof outside of our window.
It was fucked up.
And then I'm looking and I'm like these beds are probably just made for having sex with hookers and like strippers that are coming from the strip club, you know.
And so there's that red pillow that was on the bed.
It was like one of those fashion pillows that you throw on the ground you don't really sleep on.
And they were like, yeah, this is an eco-friendly hotel where you put your key in and it controls the air conditioning and the lights, which means the air conditioning didn't work and all the lights were just flashing on and off whenever they wanted to.
And then the pool area, topless pool area, but like 90% of the girls were like, holy shit, I have hairier chest than her.
Or I mean, she has a hairier chest than me.
It was fucking the worst hotel in the history of hotels.
Well, there was that Hemingway thing that just came out.
You know, Hemingway thought that the government was following him.
And it turns out they were.
They were tapping his phones.
They were following him.
So he was right.
And it was like what they say, you know, some people say the last straw that drove Hemingway to commit suicide.
And that he was, people thought he was just paranoid.
But in fact, the government really was watching him.
Like why the fuck would you be watching a writer?
You know, like what do you, you know, the idea I guess is that he was too close to the communists or something like that because he was always in Cuba.
You know, like he was going to fucking overthrow the government or something.
Yeah, you know, there was so much intelligence going on on different levels.
You had this whole dialectic between communism and capitalism on one level being steered by bankers higher up.
But all of this stuff, you know, that goes into a lot of my current research right now.
In fact, I've got Council on Foreign Relations documents sitting right here next to me from them talking about mushrooms and stuff like that, you know, the key players in the Council on Foreign Relations.
These people are into crazy stuff on so many levels, you know.
Yeah, and you would have to think.
Messing up people's heads and, you know, the CIA messing with people's heads, MKUltra.
They've been spying on people and messing with people forever.
And you would have to think that anyone with any level of intelligence who is in any position of power would want to know about chemicals that change people's minds.
You'd want to know about it.
You know, you wouldn't just ignore it.
You wouldn't just say, oh, we need to make this illegal.
Well, interestingly, what I've found out recently is that there was this exclusive club that a lot of these elitists and bankers and intelligence people belong to.
And they would share the information on psychedelics at the highest levels.
I mean, pretty much everybody at the highest levels from the 1940s through the 60s knew what was going on about psychedelics on every level before the public did.
I don't know how you could be in any position of power and not be aware of something that powerful.
Something that's, you know, like the whole movement of the 60s and whether people want to wrap their head around it or not, that was all drugs.
That whole, you know, that whole acid culture that was coming out of San Francisco, that whole summer of love, that generational gap, that huge leap between the 1950s and 1960s, that was all drugs, man.
That was all drugs.
It was all people smoking pot and people doing heroin and people, you know, getting high on mushrooms and acid and feeling things that they had never felt before and being able to express things in a way they had never felt before.
And the disenfranchised, every fucking generation feels disenfranchised, man.
There's no getting around that.
It's impossible to get around it.
Everybody wants to escape from their fucking parents'clutches.
Everybody wants to escape from the designs of a system that they've been thrust into.
You know, you've been born into this fucking system that you have to participate in without you having any say in it whatsoever.
uh there's some serious stuff right here that shows how top members of U.S. intelligence like Alan Dulles, John Foster Dulles, bankers like Frank Alchultz and other guys like Walter Lippmann, all of these intelligence people as well, were at the highest levels involved in all of the psychedelics.
Okay, I have no idea who any of those people are, but I do think that if I was like a total internet conspiracy geek and he just hit me with all those names in a row, I would have the Uber obscure name guy hard on right now.
See, now I have like this energy thing where I really think it's mushrooms or psychedelics that's kind of enhanced this, that I could actually look at people and kind of hear them talk and look at their eyes and face and not actually study it.
Just overall, I could feel they're kind of like an energy almost.
Like I can see if this person's a little dark in places and kind of like it's weird.
There was a guy, well, he would say his name was Rafael Torrey, but that wasn't his real name.
His real name was something else.
He like invented this name and pretended he was a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt and made his way into the mixed martial arts community as a total scam artist.
And Eddie had disowned him for lying about jiu-jitsu because Eddie found out that he lied about being a black belt and he wasn't really a black belt at all.
So Eddie stopped hanging out with him because he's like, this guy's crazy.
He's just making things up.
Like he had rolled him a couple times and tapped him out really easy.
But then he thought maybe the guy was like being respectful and not trying to roll too hard.
But then he realized after a while, like, oh, no, this guy's terrible.
Like, he doesn't know any jiu-jitsu.
He's not a black belt.
This is crazy.
Anyway, time goes on.
That guy killed a guy.
And he was dating this guy's wife and lured this guy back to his dojo, apparently, and choked the guy to death.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That's deep shit.
Killed the guy and then was driving around the dude's car and shit.
You know, when he was into Satanism, he was just being experimental.
He wasn't really like, I'm going to fucking worship Satan.
He was like, I think it's fascinating that everybody misunderstands this.
And what it really is, is they're saying they want to be hedonistic.
They want to indulge in pleasures and overeat and have sex and sleep till noon.
That's like Satanism to them.
That's like expressing themselves in the most ridiculous and outrageous and self-serving way possible, as opposed to this idea of the pious Christian who's trying to serve the Holy Father.
Well, you know, Astrotheology and Shamanism describe more of what the book is about, which is the, well, we publish ancient primary texts about ancient sun and star worship and Christianity, and I've also published more recently ancient primary texts on Christians using mushrooms as well, which is what my second book is about.
That's the holy mushroom evidence of mushrooms in Judeo-Christianity.
But in that book, I published the first ancient primary texts of mushroom use by Christians, and it was a document called The Epistle to the Renegade Bishops, which is a Canaanized text for the Orthodox Church.
It shows the colors of the cardinal and how the cardinals, well, you know, the ancient Catholic Church period, the ancient Christianity, they were obsessed with that mushroom.
And when you're looking at it, let me tell them what it is, though.
On the right side of the window there up above is baby Jesus writing on the back of St. Christopher and baby Jesus is in the shape of a mushroom and we've even had a professor of mycology identify the exact type of mushroom that Jesus is depicted as there and that's from Montferron du Parigord, France, from the 13th century from a chapel there.
Well, we actually do have several primary texts about it.
In fact, there's one text found in the Jewish Kabbalah in the book of Zohar that specifically discusses the mushroom, the red mushroom, or the red fungus, actually.
And like I said, the Christian text, the Epistle of the Renegade Bishops, there's a Muslim text from the 7th century that discusses manna being a type of mushroom.
And mana was referred to in other texts as well, and soma was referred to in the Hindu text, and that was also thought to be possibly related to right.
And there is an argument right now going on between academics if the manna, where it says that it's a mushroom in this Muslim Mishkat text, if it's talking about a truffle or a psychedelic mushroom, and the word there that they use, you know, it describes the word sight, and the word sight that is written in the original text can be spiritual or visual sight.
So the debate is whether or not this truffle is a mushroom mushroom or a truffle-type mushroom.
So, you know, but either way, mana-mana appears to have been a type of mushroom.
But, you know, I have to give John Marco Allegro credit.
I'm the publisher of the 40th anniversary edition of his book.
And this book here was actually a really famous book in the 1970s.
Well, he was one of the original eight members of the Dead Sea Scrolls team to translate the Dead Sea Scrolls.
They contacted Oxford University.
He was studying his doctorate in philology there in Asiatic languages, which that part of the Middle East is considered Asia.
And so he, somebody contacted the university and asked them to send their best, so they recommended John Allegro go.
And so he worked to translate the Dead Sea Scrolls from 1953 until 1968.
He was actually the only member of the Dead Sea Scrolls team to ever release any information about the Dead Sea Scrolls to the public during that period from like 1953 until 1991.
And so the other members of the team sat on their information for years.
And after a huge blow-up, the Huntington Library in about 1990-91, which is over by Pasadena, they finally released all of their photographs in their possession of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which finally allowed other scholars to get their hands on them and translate them.
But John Allegro, up until that point, was the only one that was fighting against the rest of the team to put information out.
And of course, they attacked him.
If you go to Dead Sea Scrolls displays today, they almost completely omit them from any mention of the Dead Sea Scrolls, but he was really the key player to get it out to the public.
And so, well, what happened was in the 1950s, Professor John Ramsbottom from the London Botanical Museum published a book suggesting that Adam and Eve in the tree of knowledge was a mushroom, and he showed a fresco from France that's called the Plane Corrow Fresco that's found in the future.
If you look at, see, in my holy mushroom book, I published 43 images or paintings that go from Russia to England, and it shows a pretty widespread use from the early first millennium all the way through the late 1800s.
And he argues that Jesus himself was an anthropomorphism or a metaphor for the mushroom, for the entheogenic experience itself, not a physical person.
And in fact, theologists and religious experts still today debate constantly whether or not Jesus and these characters were historical.
There's a lot of evidence to suggest that they are in fact myths, just like Zeus or any of the Greek gods or any of the Hindu gods or any other gods.
But when you live in your own religion and you have your own beliefs, you tend to take them on as real historical characters.
But as I showed in my first book, Astrotheology and Shamanism, when you compare all of these different religions that hold beliefs like sun worship and moon worship and these things, as well as psychedelics, and they all start to tie together when you look at their similarities through fertility rituals, through psychedelic use, and through sun and star and moon worship.
You know, like I said earlier, I published a fourth century text from Father Epiphanius where he's sitting there talking about how the birth of Jesus coincides exactly with the birth of the sun and everything.
And then he says, but all of those other pagan religions, they're not the real one.
We're the real one.
And his text was actually censored for a thousand years by the church until another older copy of it was later found and published in the 1850s.
So the church literally tried to suppress one of their own guys' texts talking about this stuff.
Well, I would assume that if you look at all this religious artwork that has all these mushroom symbols in them, and we're talking about doorway openings, right?
Let's not stick to just audio because, like I said, the majority, the vast majority of the people that get this podcast get it just.
But anyway, my point was, do you think that how it went down was that all of this knowledge and information about psychedelics was kept from the common person?
Right, well, it was kept for the elite, those who basically had the knowledge of the trivium and quadrivium or had studied the seven liberal arts.
They were considered better than the masses or the dead, as they're also known, or the profane, right?
And so the elites and the educated would hold this information for themselves, the trivium, the quadrivium, the psychedelics, the history of philosophy.
Actually, there's also that a lot of people don't know about is there was this ancient conversation.
It's 2,500 years old.
It's still going on.
And it's called, well, it's called the Great Conversation, but it's found in a series of books called The Great Books of the Western World.
And leading thinkers and leading experts every generation add on to this great conversation, and it's still going on today.
It goes all the way from Socrates to today.
And right now it's like 54 or 59 volumes or something like that.
It's like a 10-year undertaking, but any real expert in the ancient knowledge or in philosophy or anything like that has studied this great conversation or has participated in it.
And so there's all of these different levels of knowledge.
The trivium and quadrivium is the foundation to the great books of the Western world.
So you have to have a firm understanding of this information.
And all of this is related to the religions as well.
But just to give a very quick synopsis, the trivium, specifically in this order, is grammar, logic, and rhetoric.
And that teaches you how to think and how to learn, not what to think.
And then the quadrivium is math, geometry, music, and astronomy, specifically in that order.
But there are aspects, you know, in my research and in some of these documents here through some of the clubs, it's very clear that many members of the elite, like let's say the owner of Time Life magazine, the head of the CIA, rich financiers like Oppenheimer or Walter Lippmann or Frank Asholtz, these guys.
Take it from an entertainer who knows his audience.
It's the wrong way to go with this subject.
Draw me a picture.
Because it's a fascinating subject.
The idea that all religious experiences come from psychedelic experiences.
It totally, completely makes sense.
The connection between this Amanita muscaria mushroom, the relationship that it has to Christmas trees, that it has a Michael Reiser relationship with the Christmas tree and it grows under them, and that all these things, no one knows about this.
This is all, for some reason, has been kept out of public school systems, kept out of universities.
You know, and anthropology especially, but Professor Tom Roberts at the University of Illinois has been teaching the oldest running psychedelics course since the 1980s.
Right, yeah, and people are allowed to, you know, study, you know, he allows people in his class to choose a book in the whole, you know, there's like four or five hundred books on psychedelic studies from all different directions out there, and he lets them go out and research these and write reports on them and things like that as part of the class.
I wonder how if he gets talked to by anybody at any point in time, you know, and they have to make sure that he doesn't encourage the use of these and that it has to be.
You know, I've interviewed more than 60 doctors and professors and leading experts in psychedelic studies on my show from Stan Groff, who's one of the leading experts or the leading expert on LSD, and a bunch of other people.
And they're very straightforward about their own personal use.
I think there's been one doctor that I've had on, Deborah Mash at the University of Miami, who says she's never tried the drugs that she researches.
You know, and when you think about it, almost all religions, if you go back far enough, they were using psychedelics.
It wasn't just the Native Americans or the South Americans who used ayahuasca or, you know, it wasn't just brown cultures.
It was the white cultures too.
In Genesis, Rachel and Leia are arguing over who gets the mandrakes to have sex with Rachel's husband.
So this is Mandrake is a psychedelic as well as an aphrodisiac.
It's in the scolpolamine family.
Ryan says, in the Song of Solomon, it discusses Mandrake there as well.
And there's been a number of people, myself, Jack Hare that we both knew, and Clark Heinrich have all argued that the entire story in Song of Solomon is actually basically a psychedelic story.
If you look at it, if the characters are put in context of drugs and red mushrooms with white spots and things, suddenly the story makes a lot more sense.
Here's an example, and it is on the same subject, although it doesn't feel that it would be, of, you know, how we were talking earlier about being able to feel if someone's weird, feel someone's crazy.
The first time I was introduced to this subject was the first time I met Jan.
I met Jan over at Jack Harris' place, and Jack Harris was showing me all these photos, which I hope are still around.
I hope somebody got those.
He had these incredible photos of artwork where it showed naked people.
They had like a transparent mushroom, and they were naked in ecstasy dancing on the mushroom, clearly showing these people under the effect of this psychedelic drug.
And so it's me and it's Jan and it's Jack and it's Jack's friend.
And man, Jack's friend, all my alarms are going off.
Yeah, it was so uncomfortable because this was the first time I was meeting Jack.
And it was really like, you know, if you don't know who Jack Harrow is, Jack Harrer wrote the book, The Emperor Was, thank you, rest in peace, Jack.
He wrote a book called The Emperor Wears No Clothes, and it's a brilliant book where it really breaks down everything that the whole history of Kemp and marijuana, medical marijuana.
And actually, our friend Todd McCormick has re-released this, and it's right now.
If you're having a party, that motherfucker come over crashing.
And that's what that guy was.
But that guy also, besides being a complete fucking nut and a psychopath and a child molester, he also was like really fascinated by the idea of Santa Claus being the Amanita muscaria mushroom and the whole history of that mushroom.
But people don't know.
Santa Claus is red and white.
The Amanita muscaria mushroom is red and white.
Santa Claus lives in Siberia in the North Pole.
The Amanita muscaria mushroom that is used by the shaman.
For those, you know, what I should mention, for those interested, they can go on my Gnostic Media website, and that's G-N-O-S-T-I-C-Media.com and click on the link up at the top for the Pharmacratic Inquisition DVD.
They can watch my whole DVD right there on the website.
My friend, rest his soul, Robert Schimmel, he told me once that someone else, like in his family or something, was on the Adderall, and he accidentally took it, thought it was something else, and freaked out.
Well, I'm sure it's caused by a lot of things, but you know, nutritional deficiencies are responsible for a horde of diseases.
And so many of us just don't eat, you know, we don't take in vitamins.
We don't eat vegetables.
People have been asking me about this because I talked about it on the podcast about this Vitamix blender fucking thing that I got.
I don't know the name of it because I'm just sitting right here.
I forgot.
But what it is is a blender for it takes these fruits and vegetables and just mashes them down like almost like they're pre-digested.
And that's the idea behind it.
That instead of juice, whereas you're taking juice, you're squeezing all the liquids out of it and you get a lot of minerals and nutrients and everything like that.
But you don't get as much as when you chop it up and blend it.
So you chop it up and blend it.
Kevin James has been on this for the last year or so.
And he's lost like, I told you, like 80-something pounds.
I mean, he looks fucking fantastic.
And he swears by this shit.
So what I've been eating is just kale, cucumbers, pears, and raw, what's our stuff?
Well, she proves that there was a good scandal with the oil companies to cover up that animal fats are the oil companies because they were selling these new, newly invented vegetable oils, which weren't around except for olive oil and maybe hemp oil.
You didn't have vegetable oils on the market before the 1920s.
And she even shows that you can parallel the explosion of heart disease and cancer in the United States exactly with the use of vegetable oils.
Basically, what causes the heart attacks and the heart disease and all of that shit is vegetable oils and carbohydrates, especially processed carbos.
You know, if you get rid of those things out of your diet, heart disease, obesity, all that shit starts to clear up.
You know, certainly eat your vegetables and things, but she says that what a lot of people do is they'll go out and they'll eat a salad and then they'll pour salad dressing all over it, which is these processed vegetable oils instead of olive oil or butter is basically all you want to use on a salad.
Any of these other newfangled oils don't eat that shit at all.
And what they also do is, you know, they're allowed to actually put a half a gram or anything less than a gram of trans fat on any packages today is still labeled as zero trans fats, even though it's blood in it.
You sound like a delusional bitch that goes to a massage parlour where they give out hand jobs, and you didn't know it was a massage parlour where they give out hand jobs, and you leave and you call the cops.
You're like, what the fuck?
I just want a regular massage.
I paid for regular massage.
Where's my regular massage?
She massages me for just like five minutes, then she starts jerking me off.
And now that you know, if you're looking for that, if you're ever looking for a hotel to do ecstasy in Viagra and just start fucking a bunch of random strangers, now you know the spot.
You know the spot where people are getting their freak on.
Just like if you go to a massage parlor and they rub your feet and then start sucking your dick, you know that's a different kind of massage parlor.
I got a little nervous that Anthony Bourdain was in the audience and I was worried if I was too high.
I was like, how many hits did I have?
I had three hits.
Shit, I'm skiing right now.
Because when you have three hits, you gotta, as long as I know that I've gone over my material and I know that I've been performing a lot and I know that I'm in the groove, I can just go out there and ski.
And by skiing means, you ever watch those videos where a dude gets dropped on top of a mountain on a helicopter?
And then he's going down that mountain and it's some uncharted territory.
And you know, this guy fucking hits a rock the wrong way.
Comedy is a strange thing, but it's still my favorite thing to watch, man.
I thought about staying an extra day.
I was going to stay till Sunday.
So fucking shit.
Because Bill Burr and Jim Norton and Jim Brewer and David Tell are all doing a show together at the Palm.
And for a minute, I was thinking, why don't I fly out Mrs. Rogan for the day and we'll go to see a comedy show.
Maybe she would be into that.
And I'm like, let me get the fuck home.
I changed my mind.
But I do love stand-up so much that I almost stayed an extra day to watch this show.
Because I went out to dinner Saturday night with Jim Norton and Bill Burr and my friend Justin from the Action Report and Russell Peters were there too.
And so we're all sitting around and Kenny, you know, club soda, Kenny.
We're all sitting around shooting the shit.
And they were telling me about Jim Brewer's new bit.
And Jim Brewer apparently has some closer that is just insane.
So I read about him, his dad taking a shit.
And they were all talking about how this thing builds up.
I guess his dad's shit in the car.
His dad's like an older guy.
And apparently it's the funniest fucking bit of all time.
Yeah, it kind of sucks because there's a little bit more pressure because now people know who I am, and now I'm getting thrown up in front of sold-out shows.
So we were going to break into it and just walk around with some cameras and stuff on the way home, but the traffic was so bad so we decided not to.
So there's this Wikipedia page all about it, and it's so amazing the history of that amusement park.
Like in the 50s and 60s, this businessman bought it and he just put this water slide amusement park in the middle of the Mahadevi Desert, I think it is, or something like that.
In the middle of the desert, and there's this huge water park, and it's 50s themed.
So it was like very, like, 50s music and 60s music and stuff like that.
And it just, you know, it was millions of dollars in the debt.
People are, you know, see, well, I guess for them, like, they're planning on that business when you have the occasional car accident that shuts down the whole fucking thing.
A lot of people have been telling me this lately that the medical marijuana in Vegas, you can use your California license and they accept the California license in Vegas.
You know, it's like this kid did, you know, a couple years ago, there was this big scare back east.
This kid had done Salvia several months before, wrote in his diary that he could see how half the shit in his life was complete bullshit.
He was starting to see through the big fucking lie out there.
And then they said, you know, months later, they try to say, oh, well, he committed suicide because of Salvia.
Even though he was not on Salvia and he had done it months before, it's that he, you know, he certainly started seeing how a lot of what the media and government and things like that tell you is bullshit.
Okay, but you can clearly make some sort of a connection between some of those kids that got experimented on in Harvard like Ted Kaczynski and his erratic behavior afterwards.
He saved up all his money after these studies and worked as a professor of mathematics at Berkeley.
And when he was working there, he was just studying and saving up his money and trying to figure out what the fuck he was going to do when he moved to the woods and how he was going to attack technology.
Well, basically, what he was arguing was that they're using the technology to enslave everybody and to dumb us down and to control everything.
And he was trying to stop it because he started being the math professor at Berkeley started seeing how the whole system worked and he wanted to shut it down.
The idea that technology eventually is going to overtake us is absolutely, I mean, it's discussed in depth by thousands of scientists and futurists and the Ray Kurtz wheels and hates technology, says it's overtaking us.
We put out a documentary last November called What You've Been Missing, Episode 1, The Noble Lie, which goes into this whole use of technology to dumb us down.
Well, Skinner, the Skinner box, is a box that they would put pigeons and rats and things like that in and get them to do certain things for food or whatever on the stimuli.
And they've learned to apply that stuff directly to computer games and to purchasing in the grocery stores and things like that.
Well, that there are certain people using marketing and advertising and computer technology to specifically to mind control people and it's very, very simple to do.
Right, so see, the thing, how mind control works is, you know, I mentioned this trivium thing earlier.
By people not having the trivium, that's what enables marketing and public relations, the political system, the law system that we have today, that's What enables it to work.
That's why it doesn't work on any intelligent person.
No intelligent person watches any nonsense propaganda on television and buys it immediately because you've accumulated a certain amount of information.
But if, like, you know, say if you go out and you study logical fallacies for 20 minutes and then you go study commercials, you'll see how every commercial is filled with logical fallacies.
So once you can identify those logical fallacies, you begin to see how they're using these lies against you everywhere, and then you just block them out.
Just kind of filling in the voids here, trying to bring this show back to life.
The idea is that at one point in time, people were taught this stuff on a regular basis, and now our education system is no longer a people's education.
Oh, yeah, there's evidence that it was done on purpose.
In fact, I just saw an article by this woman, Kelly, from Canada Free Press yesterday talking about the American freedom or the American Rebellion from England was originally centered around the trivium in classical education.
So when people are in school today, you know, when they come up with some sort of a lesson plan for the year, is there someone who's actually saying, hey, we don't want these people smarter?
Well, I would suggest people study two people primarily, John Taylor Gatto, and he's written a very good book, The Underground History of American Education for people that read.
And also Charlotte Iserbeet's book, The Dumbing Down of America, which she also has a lot of primary documents in her book on the Rees Commission and how they did it.
Well, let's see, I've been in it at least 20, 22 years or so.
But originally I got in it working with Jack Herrer on the California Hemp Initiative, and he was the one who originally turned me on to John Allegro's book, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.
Actually, my sister turned me on to his book when I was probably 18, and then I met him at a hemp rally.
And in December 2002, I went to his house and we instantly hit it off, and we were friends for 18 years, and I was one of the people that helped bury him in April last year.
Let me ask you this, because you, you know, on your show for sure, you preach to the converted, you know, you have a really a big following of people who, like me, are kind of pretty well versed in this subject matter and understand a lot about, you know, psychedelic drugs and, you know, the relationship they've had to humanity for thousands and thousands of years.
Well, for somebody like that, you start off with ancient primary sources and things like that because a doctor is going to want to cut straight to the facts, no bullshit.
Well, you know, what's interesting is in December, Loma Linda University Medical Center, which is a Seventh-day Adventist medical school and it's considered one of the best in the world, they had me come in.
No, it's not Mormons, but Seventh-day Adventists, they're Seventh-day Adventists.
Well, it's a Christian group, but anyway, they worship on Saturday instead of Sunday.
They worship on the Sabbath, basically.
So this school had me come into their pharmacy department and give a two-hour lecture on the history of the medical and spiritual applications of psychedelic drugs.
Unfortunately, the class was, those who were allowed to participate were the top of the class, so they couldn't, you know, there were no, anybody who thought that they thought was going to deviate from the norm of society were even allowed to attend the lecture.
Well, you know what's interesting is last April up in San Jose, there's a group called MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies.
They held a huge conference.
It was the first one in like 35 or 40 years, but there was 800 or 900 doctors and professors there at this conference, and the whole thing was about the latest research in psychedelics.
This is a they're they're well they they are planning there are different ones, but this was the first and the largest one instead of regional, is that what it is?
Well, this one was it was the largest where they it was like spread out over three days almost 100 presenters, you know, literally people flying in from all over the world, medical professionals from all over the world, experts in psychedelics presenting on just everything.
So, I mean, you know, the psychedelic craze and fear of the 60s is pretty much over and it's becoming a lot more in tune with the academic side and with real knowledge about psychedelics instead of just the fear that was put out by the mass media for the last 40 years.
Oh yeah, well, just in the last six or eight months, I think maybe it was October last year, ecstasy MDMA was approved for treating PTSD in military professionals.
And there's pilot studies.
There are pilot treatment studies happening in Colorado right now.
And one thing that's approved for use in almost every other country in the world is Iboga from ibogaine in the treatment of alcoholism and heroin and opium addiction.
And that's got like a 92% success rate.
But unfortunately, the United States is one of the only countries in the world where drug addiction treatment is illegal with ibogaine.
And ayahuasca has also been shown to be very effective in the treatment of alcoholism and opiate addiction.
I didn't know they have them in Canada, but I know a buddy who has gone to Mexico several times to do it, and he said that it's changed his entire life, changed the way he looks at everything, made him see himself for who he really is and abandon all those false patterns of behavior that he had gotten stuck with and all the false connections that he had made in his mind that were constantly tripping him up.
You know, occasionally you'll have the person who's never looked at any of the research or evidence call up when I'll do a radio interview or something.
I'll freak out about it.
But, you know, they're...
Oh, yeah.
You've got your drugs are packed.
I mean, you should be able to do that.
Me and Johnny Rotten gave you DMT, and look what happened after that, you know?
There's some people that have issues, like just holding on to regular reality.
So I'm not suggesting that everybody do it, but I'm suggesting that we should be able to go places and try it.
If you're a fucking regular person and you got your shit together and you're curious about expanding your mind and your consciousness with these experiences, there should be a place where we could go where the government fucking make sure the stuff is pure, they get taxes from it, everybody profits, and the society profits because you're going to have better.
The Holy Mushroom book is available on Kindle, but because Astrotheology and Shamanism has like 185 color images in it, it was too hard to put it into a clean digital format like Kindle, so it's left in book-only form.
Man, I feel like we should be able to do that in iPad form or make a couple copies of it.
iPads have that option now.
I mean, I've been watching, not watching, but I say watching comic books on an iPad because it is like you're watching a comic book.
If you've never seen it, you can get iPad has a bunch of different programs.
One of them is for Marvel Comics.
And you buy comics and you can watch them frame by frame.
You tap the frame, then it goes to the next frame, and then, oh, it's fucking incredible, man.
It's incredible.
And if they can do that with comic books and have these high-resolution images for each one, I feel like they should be able to do that with your magazine or your book, rather, because they do it with magazines.
I mean, now we know exactly where the whole theory came from, where they developed it.
Basically, it originally started with In Search of, and then Jose Arguez and Terrence McKinna picked up on it, and they spread it until Daniel Pinchbeck made it famous, basically.
It's a theory that, just for people who don't know what the fuck we're talking about, it's a theory that supposedly can track waves in time.
And the idea is that time is actually something that you can track with a program.
And that this program was based on the I Ching and that it tracked novelty or human innovation and inventions and great moments of change all throughout time.
And that by applying this novelty program, this algorithm to the past, he could point out real big spikes in the curve.
It's in my ANS book, but came out with a paper, Mathematical Hallucinations, and basically showed that what Terrence did was arbitrarily place the end date, and there was no way really to match up perfectly.
You just had to arbitrarily say December 21st, 2012.
That because of the arbitrary placement, and there was a few flaws in the math that this guy had pointed out in the mathematical hallucinations paper that McKenna stuck to his academic honesty and relinquished the theory.
You know, I know Professor John Hupps, who's an expert in Maya studies, and he sent Pinchback a whole bunch of information when he was writing that book, showing that Pinchbeck's whole theory was completely bogus.
You know, not only that, but Pinchbeck is using an Aztec god, Quitzaquatl, to talk about a Maya calendar.
What is an Aztec god dealing with a Maya calendar?
And why would he come down and come to Daniel Pinchbeck, this New Yorker white guy, to reveal 2012 to the world, right?
I watched a fascinating show on them trying to figure out how to decode Mayan language because what Mayan language, like each little symbol, like will like you will say things, like you will see things.
McKenna described it like if you had an eyeball and a saw and an ant insect and then a rose, I saw ant rose.
That's how you would say I saw ant rose.
You'd have to do it like that.
It's incredibly difficult to decipher.
But a fascinating documentary about all these scientists and archaeologists trying to break it down and figure out what the fuck everything means and how long it took and all these breakthroughs that they came out.
And I was going to ask you this because I saw this in a podcast, not a podcast, a documentary once, but I already agree that it's probably correct, but I haven't been able to break it down with anybody who really knows a lot about the ancient Bible and the ancient Hebrew Bible.
The ancient Hebrew Bible was all, that was not the earliest version of the Bible.
The earlier versions of the Bible was the Dead Sea Scrolls, right?
And then the original Torah would have been written, like Genesis was probably written about 586 BCE.
So the Torah would, you know, certain aspects of the Torah, which we don't have an original copy that's that old, but would technically be older than certain sections of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
But there is a lot of, you know, identical copies of original Hebrew texts in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
And so that was one of the things that I read that they were trying to match up different pieces of the Dead Sea Scrolls by using DNA so that the parchment came from the same cow.
So they were matching the DNA of the fucking, the shit they were writing on to try to figure out what pile.
But, you know, the Hindus still use bang or banj, which is marijuana, and soma was argued by Gordon Wasson to be Amanita muscaria, the red and white spotted mushroom that you see in all the fairy tales and with gnomes and dwarves and Mario Brothers and shit like that.
Well, for the longest time for any academic, using even the term psychedelics as a subject of serious research, you go, oh, I'm looking into psychedelics.
What the fuck are you wasting your career on, man?
Well, Henry Luce, who is the president of Time Life, his wife, Claire Booth Luce, is even quoted as saying that she and her husband had more to do with popularizing LSD than Tim Leary ever did.
Not an Manchurian candidate was like he was, what did they, you have to come up to him and say something to him and he fucking snaps or some silliness like that.
But I think in the case of Kadinsky that they might have fried this guy's circuit at the point that this is the conversation.
How can people do something about this situation that we're in that's been here since you and I were children and it is here now that we have the children?
The best thing that people can do, in my opinion, that is the real solution is pick up the trivium, pick up critical thinking, grammar, logic, and rhetoric.
That is the best way.
It's like installing a mental antivirus system into your brain so that suddenly it's like taking the red pill.
All of a sudden the green lines are coming down the screen.
Are you going to write a book about this?
We've talked about it.
A friend of mine is already writing a book on it.
We've done a number of documentaries on the trivium.
I run triviumeducation.com, a website that people can check out.
Well, that's nice for the people that are going to pay attention.
But what kind of a strategy, if any, is possible for letting people know about psychedelics, letting people know about the benefits and positives of these things that have really been held back from people.
One of the things that McKenna said that always stuck with me is that living a life and going birth to the grave without psychedelics to me is like living a life and going birth to the grave without ever having sex.
I would agree with that, but the problem with just doing psychedelics without critical thinking is that when somebody breaks free of their religious paradigm or the new age paradigms that are just as much mind control out there as anything else, the problem is, is if they do psychedelics alone, they're easily manipulated.
And so I disagree with McKenna and Larry's theory that everybody should just take it.
I think that people should be given the proper tools of critical thinking and then take the psychedelics and then they really break free.
There's no, listen, exposing people to this information is probably step one.
There's a bunch of people that are growing up now that are in high school and college that are reading these types of books and listening to these types of conversations that we're having on this podcast and researching this type of information.
And just having this stuff being a part of public discourse, it allows people to know it's out there and it allows people to start thinking about things in a little bit of a different way.
We're all programmed in one way or another, whether we like it or not.
We're programmed by our experiences.
We're programmed by our environment.
And it's not always necessarily for your own good to follow that fucking programming.
This Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, we will be at the Irvine Improv.
Tomorrow, we're going to have an early podcast, a noon one, with not only the Duncan Trussell, so upcoming in the future, I'm still trying to work out this Anthony Bourdain thing.
Don't cock block me, Mark Marron.
Step, bitch.
And I'm also going to work out Sucalos, and we're trying to get Dice Clay too.
Dice Clay said he would do it too, right?
All right.
Holla at your boy.
I'll see you guys tomorrow at noon, and thank you very much.
And I love you, bitches.
And the Joe Rogan Experience Podcast is sponsored by the fleshlight.
If you go to joerogan.net and click on the link for the flashlight.
And Fear Factor better not fuck with my fleshlight endorsement.