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Feb. 8, 2011 - The Joe Rogan Experience
01:53:39
JRE MMA Show #78 with Andre Ward
Participants
Main voices
a
andre ward
01:11:05
j
joe rogan
40:50
Appearances
Clips
j
jamie vernon
00:12
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
Two, one, boom.
Andre Ward, ladies and gentlemen.
How are you, brother?
andre ward
I'm good, man.
How you doing?
joe rogan
Thank you very much for doing this, man.
I'm a big fan, so I was very excited to do this.
andre ward
Appreciate you having me.
joe rogan
You did it.
In terms of, like, if you're a young fighter and you've got aspirations, what do you want to do?
You want to be an Olympic gold medalist, you want to win multiple world titles, two-division world champion, and you retired undefeated.
You're like a unicorn, man.
You're a rare dude.
Because you retired at 35, right?
andre ward
33. 33?
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
Like, you're in the peak of your athletic abilities, and you go, you know what?
I did enough.
andre ward
I'm out.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
I mean, it sounds all neat and buttoned up, but it wasn't that easy.
Like, I didn't know how things were going to go throughout the course of my career.
But for whatever reason, like, I always, even as a young kid, I'm talking 10 years old, like, I had this thought, like, you know, I don't want to end up like a lot of fighters end up.
Like, they seem to go high, really high, and then all of a sudden they come crashing down.
Like, they start well, but they don't end well.
That's what drew me to Roy Jones Jr. Country boy, had swag, and he'd always talk about himself in the third person.
He'd be like, man, you know, Roy Jones, I don't love a sport like that, man.
I'm going to get in and get out.
I'm just special at it, and I'm going to be fishing on my farm one day in Pensacola, Florida.
I was like, man, this dude is different.
Fighters don't talk like that.
So he was the first one that gave me the thought of getting in and getting out.
And then again, I just studied it throughout the course of my career.
Even other athletes and entertainers, I was enamored by it.
So That was always a goal.
Just as much as I wanted to win a gold medal, world championship, I wanted to leave on top when people were asking, why are you leaving?
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's so difficult to make that decision, though.
Roy Jones Jr. didn't even make that decision.
He said he was going to do it.
He had some rough knockouts.
andre ward
Late in his career.
joe rogan
Hard to watch.
Some of them that people didn't even see.
andre ward
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heartbreaking.
joe rogan
Yes.
andre ward
Especially if you followed him and supported him like I have.
joe rogan
Especially if you know his decision was based on Gerald McClellan.
A lot of it was.
andre ward
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
When Gerald McClellan, for people who don't know, was a murderer, man.
I mean, he was a savage light heavyweight, but he was cutting a lot of weight.
andre ward
Yeah.
joe rogan
And, you know, he wound up having a serious brain injury.
unidentified
Yep.
joe rogan
In that epic fight with Nigel Bennett, which is an amazing, amazing fight.
When Ben got off the deck, it looked like the fight was over.
Because Daryl McClown would just merc people, man.
andre ward
Absolutely.
joe rogan
Like a prototypical cronk destroyer.
Big right hand.
Tall, strong as fuck, super aggressive, knockout striker.
And for whatever reason, Roy decided, you know what, let's just keep doing it.
andre ward
Fuck it.
There's a lot of different reasons why people do that, man.
I just didn't want to be one of them, simply put.
But the retirement is coming up on two years, September 21st.
It's harder than I thought it was going to be.
One of the most hardest things I've ever had to do, but one of the most rewarding.
And the way I reconcile it in my brain is that, okay...
At some point, I'm going to have to do this.
At some point, I'm going to have to face the emotions and the pull to come back and, you know, trying to figure out if your body can still do it and just all the different things you go through, whether I'm in my prime or whether I'm 40, 45 years old.
So you can't avoid it.
It's just when do you want to take on that task.
joe rogan
So you're retired at 33, so you're 35 now.
So goddamn, man, you're right there.
I mean, you have like four more years to be, unless you're Bernard Hopkins.
Then you have another decade.
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
But to Bernard's credit, he started late.
He did.
Bernard started at 20-some years old and graded for state prison.
joe rogan
Yes.
andre ward
I started at nine years old.
joe rogan
Well, also, Bernard developed this insane discipline while he was in prison.
The hardships of prison were so awful.
The feeling of being locked up and contained that he fucked up his life.
He was so bound and determined to become something special.
That means he's so disciplined.
andre ward
Yeah.
Well, even beyond that, he opened up his eyes and he looked at the landscape and he realized that most fighters are not disciplined.
Most fighters, they like the idea of being a champion.
They like the idea of winning championships and what that brings.
Not just the championships, but what the championships and the money brings.
The ladies, you know, the party and all the stuff.
And he said, I'm going to do it a different way.
Like, these guys are out gaining weight, 20 pounds in between fights.
I'm going to live like a Spartan.
He got the revelation and he just stuck to it.
joe rogan
Yeah, he ate clean.
andre ward
He lived a clean life.
joe rogan
And he fought so disciplined.
He fought so smart.
He was one of the best defensive fighters ever.
And people didn't like that style, man.
He would pop you and grab you.
Pop you and grab you.
And people would get frustrated.
They would get out of composure.
And they would start doing the things that maybe they shouldn't have done.
And then he would capitalize on those things.
I remember when he fought Trinidad, man.
One of my favorite fights.
unidentified
Woo!
joe rogan
This Trinidad was a killer!
andre ward
And I love Tito.
joe rogan
I do too.
I mean, he was a killer.
I got a chance to see Tito fight live in Vegas once.
It was amazing.
But when Bernard started putting it on him, I was like, wow, this is, first of all, this is like a legitimate middleweight fighting guy who's really a welterweight.
And this is also a really special fighter who just figures people out.
andre ward
He fought Tito in New York City, in Madison Square Garden, which is little Puerto Rico.
Yes.
I think it was the week of the Puerto Rican Day Parade.
Yes.
And previously to that fight in Puerto Rico, Bernard Hopkins took the Puerto Rican flag, threw it down, caused a melee, had to run out of there, get snatched out of the arena, wherever they were having a press conference, get thrown on the plane.
The beef was real.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
andre ward
And to be able to...
Perform under that kind of pressure?
Unreal.
One of my favorite fights.
joe rogan
When he was running away from the crowd in Puerto Rico, and you realize, oh my god, he's on his own here.
Like, literally, people are trying to kill him.
andre ward
But what's even crazier is he knew that was going to happen.
Like, he knew, okay, this is getting ready to happen in 3, 2, 1. Threw the flag down, and it was on.
joe rogan
Oh, man.
But it worked.
First of all, it got so many people to pay attention to that fight.
And then two, it got Tito emotional.
andre ward
If he lost that fight, he was back to the back of the bus.
If he wins the fight, which he did, he moves on to become Bernard Hopkins.
joe rogan
Yeah, he moves on to greatness.
You know, it's interesting when you watch his style as well, that very technical, very disciplined style versus Roy's style, which was so athletic and explosive and very unusual with that lead left hook that he would fire off more than a jab.
I mean, Roy had a crazy style.
And then you watch Roy outpoint Bernard early, but then Bernard comes back later in his career and really kind of like shut Roy down and showed like when the athleticism starts to slip away a little bit, Roy is normal.
He's a human.
andre ward
He's a human.
joe rogan
Yeah, whereas Bernard was still this incredibly disciplined, very well-schooled boxer.
It was a real good lesson for fighters to see the deal.
Like, this is why you use the fundamentals.
This is why you fight correctly.
You can get away with being Roy Jones Jr. But Roy Jones Jr., with his physical gifts, I feel like he could have got away with fighting discipline, too.
He could have got away with fighting technically.
But, you know, he just chose to fight his way.
andre ward
It worked for a long time.
It worked until it didn't work.
joe rogan
But it worked better than anybody.
I mean, it was amazing to watch in the day when he was on top.
andre ward
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, when he was knocking out Virgil Hill with body shots and putting his hands behind his back and knocking dudes out.
andre ward
That was the guy I fell in love with, you know.
But he could have...
Roy could have...
He could have gone and had a full career and rode off in the sunset and been in Pensacola fishing, hunting, doing whatever he does, and still not really been super fundamentally sound.
But, I mean, after he beat John Ruiz for the Heavyweight Championship of the World, and I had been going to multiple Roy fights leading up to that heavyweight fight, Antonio Tarver, who I have a lot of respect for, you know, they were rivals in Florida when they were young.
Um...
Antonio was following Roy around, trying to get him to notice him, trying to get him to take a fight.
And I remember clear as day, in the post-fight press conference, after Roy became the heavyweight champion of the world, after being the middleweight champion, starting at 160, Antonio Tarver interrupted the press conference.
He said, Roy Jones, you've been ducking me, you've been running.
He's going on and on and on.
Roy looks at Tarver and gives him the attention that he's been after.
And he said, oh, he said, I I'm going to whoop you.
I'm going to whoop you.
We're going to make that fight happen.
And at that moment, I'm thinking like, no, Roy, no, don't do it.
You're the heavyweight champion of the world.
Tarver was still light heavyweight.
And sure enough.
Roy went down, stripped off 25 pounds of muscle that he had built up with Mackie Shieldstone to get ready for the heavyweight fight.
Went down there, fought a close fight, but he didn't look like himself.
Took the rematch.
Now, even after the first fight with Tarver, man, you run for the heels.
You know what?
I beat him.
I wasn't myself.
I'm going back up.
Took the rematch and then got knocked out.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's weird.
I thought the first fight was earlier.
Now, my brain's scrambled here, because I thought that that was immediately after the Ruiz fight that he got knocked out.
andre ward
Yeah, it was.
He went back down.
So Ruiz, light heavyweight, went down, fought Tarver the first time, then fought the rematch, and then got knocked out the second time.
joe rogan
So they fought two times in a row?
andre ward
They fought two times in a row, and then they ended up fighting a third time way down the road.
joe rogan
Did they really?
I didn't even know they fought a third time.
andre ward
In Florida, yeah.
joe rogan
The loss of the weight was a terrible idea.
Can't do that.
And also, let's be realistic about how we put that weight on.
It's most likely there was some Mexican supplements involved, and if you're going to put that kind of bulk on...
You know, I mean, I don't know.
Roy Jones is one of my heroes.
It's not disrespecting...
andre ward
No, I hear you.
And I've heard people say stuff like that, but like...
That's my guy.
I'm a kid, so I'm like, no.
joe rogan
I get it.
andre ward
I'm believing that it was just Roy, Mackie Shieldstone, and hard work.
I believe it is that.
joe rogan
It's possible.
It's possible.
But I mean, what is he like?
He was like 33, 34 at the time?
andre ward
He was somewhere around there.
joe rogan
Very hard to put 25 pounds of muscle on.
See, he cut weight to make the light heavyweight limit, right?
So you got to think he was probably like 185. 190, probably.
Yeah, and so he really only gained maybe 10, 15 pounds.
Still, he was lean as fuck.
andre ward
Yeah, he was pretty lean.
He was thick, though, too.
Roy had that kind of build.
He was country strong.
joe rogan
Yeah, very muscular.
I mean, he had crazy biceps and no triceps.
It was all just whipping left hooks.
It was weird, right?
He had a crazy body.
andre ward
I didn't notice that.
joe rogan
Dude, his body was very unusual.
The way he was built.
He was all biceps.
He was just whipping.
You know, he's just from whipping punches, whipping body shots.
Yeah.
No, he was phenomenal.
You got a picture of him, Jamie?
andre ward
Yeah, that's my guy.
joe rogan
No, listen, I'm a gigantic Roy Jones Jr. fan, but I mean, I feel like...
There's one example right there.
You see how gigantic his biceps are?
But you see it almost more while he's fighting.
I mean, he really had a body built to hook you.
What if Jones remained a heavyweight?
I mean, look, he was so goddamn fast.
I mean, John Ruiz just was whiffing at air in that fight.
andre ward
Well, the thing about after the Ruiz fight is, you know, we had the same manager, James Prince.
There was a Tyson fight on the table.
And I believe I'm accurate when I say this.
It was somewhere around 40 million guaranteed.
unidentified
Whoa.
andre ward
There's an upside, too.
You stay at heavyweight, keep the weight on, and Tyson wasn't quite Tyson at that time.
Still dangerous, but wasn't quite Tyson.
I think they were working toward it.
From what I've heard, Roy wanted more money.
James Prince was like, bro, take this, $40 million.
There's going to be an upside.
It's you and Mike Tyson, Roy Jones and Mike Tyson.
Roy somehow said, nope, the fight will be there later on down the road.
Put his attention toward Antonio Tarver.
The rest is history.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
I'm kind of glad he didn't fight Tyson.
andre ward
I wanted to see him fight Tyson and ride off in the sunset.
joe rogan
Yeah, but I don't think Roy was ever really going to ride off in the sunset.
He likes being Roy Jones Jr. so much.
Tyson Jones had 2003 Fight Card.
Is that around when he fought Gulotta?
jamie vernon
They were supposed to start an HBO pay-per-view and they were supposed to be the first fight on it.
joe rogan
Go to Mike Tyson's Wikipedia, his record, because I think that was around the time where he fought Gulotta.
He was still murking people.
I mean, he wasn't the Mike Tyson of, you know, the later years.
andre ward
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
He was still...
andre ward
I don't think Tyson fought Gulotta, did he?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, he stopped him.
Yeah, Gulotta left the ring.
He dropped him and hurt him real bad.
andre ward
Andrew Gulotta?
joe rogan
Yeah, and Gulotta was like, fuck this.
His trainer called him a coward.
He was yelling and screaming.
He hit him with one punch and dropped him.
And Gulotta was like, fuck this.
And he broke something in his neck.
He broke his face and something in his neck.
andre ward
Yeah, you gotta look that up.
unidentified
That was three years before this.
joe rogan
That was 2000. Oh, okay.
You never seen that?
andre ward
I probably did.
I don't remember him fighting Tyson.
joe rogan
Yeah, Gulotta left the ring.
He dropped...
See, it says...
Well, RTD, what does that stand for?
unidentified
Retired.
joe rogan
Because he quit.
Yeah.
And so the next dude too.
Yeah, Mike Tyson was...
andre ward
Last thing I remember of Andrew Gulotta is his fights with Riddick, bro.
joe rogan
Oh, those were crazy.
unidentified
Low blow.
andre ward
That's the last thing I remember of Gulotta.
joe rogan
It was crazy.
He just decided to keep punching him in the dick.
Like, I never saw anything like that in my life.
He fought him well in the first fight, but he kept hitting him low.
Whenever things would go bad for him, he would just look for a way out.
And that's what he did with Tyson.
Tyson dropped him.
See if he can pull that up.
Pull up the KO. Because Tyson hit him with a perfect right hand.
Boom!
Dropped him.
And Gulotta got up and was like, fuck this.
His corner was screaming at him.
And he literally just climbed down the ropes and said, see ya.
Just walked back to the dressing room.
andre ward
Something was off with Gulotta, man.
joe rogan
Definitely.
andre ward
Something was off.
joe rogan
Well, he was crazy.
Like, he had done a lot of crazy street shit, too, and been involved in bar fights and stuff like that, too.
unidentified
It's like he went down.
jamie vernon
He just quit after the second round.
joe rogan
See if you can find the video.
unidentified
I'm watching the video.
I don't see him falling.
joe rogan
Well, pull it up so we can watch it.
What are you watching by yourself?
unidentified
Yeah, well, I'm trying to interrupt the conversation.
There you go.
He went down right here, I guess.
joe rogan
Yeah, he went down, man.
I remember the fight very clearly.
He hit him with a clean right hand.
unidentified
It would have been round one, though.
joe rogan
Here, show it.
Yeah, it was a one-round fight.
jamie vernon
It was a two-round fight, but I think he went down in the first.
joe rogan
Okay, here it is.
unidentified
Boom!
andre ward
Hit him with that right hand.
joe rogan
So Gulotta went down, and at the end, I think it was in between rounds is when he decided to bail.
I think that's why it's...
unidentified
Yeah, it's right after the second here.
jamie vernon
This is the second ending, and he quits.
joe rogan
Here, this guy's come in.
Yeah, he's just like, no.
Well, we'd have to watch the whole fight.
andre ward
Yeah, I think I remember that, bro.
It was the right hand, and then he pushed the referee off.
joe rogan
Look, he's pushing everybody off.
It's like, fuck you.
I'm out of here.
He knew something was wrong, too.
And he had, I think he had a fractured orbital, and I believe there was something wrong with his neck, too.
Like, it broke a bone in his neck.
andre ward
I don't know, bro.
That's Andrew Gulotta for you, man.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was crazy.
andre ward
Yeah, it was something off with him.
I don't know whatever happened to him.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Probably not good.
andre ward
I hope he got some help.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
When you think about a career as a heavyweight fighter, too, and all the heavy blows that that guy took, whatever mental problems he might have had were certainly compounded.
andre ward
That didn't help.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
No.
You know, you had an amazing career, but one of the things that I think maybe people aren't as aware of, makes your career even more incredible, is that you fought for a long time with a bad shoulder.
Like, if you go back and watch the Carl Frotch fight, I watched that, getting ready for this, I watched it again, you boxed the shit out of him with mostly your left hand.
andre ward
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was crazy.
andre ward
Yeah.
12 years old, tore my subscapularis, which is responsible for 50% of the strength in a rotator.
Didn't really know it at the time.
We were told, hey, he's too young, he shouldn't have surgery, just rehab it.
Wrong advice.
Found that out 10 years later.
We just rehabbed it with, you know, bands and strengthening exercises, but we never had surgery, so that was always kind of my Achilles heel, man.
Like, there's been plenty of fights where I just fought one-handed because it didn't feel strong.
It didn't feel, like, safe.
I felt like any time I would throw it, it could pop out of the socket.
Like, that's how it felt.
joe rogan
So it had popped out before?
andre ward
It had not, but it felt like it could.
Got it fixed right around 2013, and it wasn't 100, but it was better.
And I was able to finish out the rest of my career.
joe rogan
So it's still not 100 now.
andre ward
It's not 100, but I'll take it.
Yeah, I'll take it, bro.
Like, I probably gained about 30-40% with that surgery.
Like, they grabbed it because the subscapularis was loose.
It wasn't attached, but it wasn't atrophied.
It was still like a fat, thriving muscle.
It just wasn't attached.
My doctor was like, whoa, like, has this ever popped out of the socket?
Dr. Michael Dillingham in San Francisco.
I was like, nah.
He was like, How?
Like, your shoulder capsule is like shot.
The subscap is hanging.
He said, but the good news is it's still a thriving muscle.
Let's get it attached.
Boom.
He attached it.
Like a four-hour surgery, something like that.
One of those surgeries that you're not guaranteed to come out of the same.
And you had to wait for a month or so to see if the surgery took.
Like, if everything would mend and kind of get, you know, kind of get stronger.
It took, man.
And like I said, I finished out the rest of my career strong.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
So how long was the rehab?
andre ward
Probably about eight months.
joe rogan
So you went from, it was about 2012 to 2015 where you didn't fight very often.
Was that because?
andre ward
Very infrequently, yeah.
joe rogan
Was that because of the show?
andre ward
Combination of a lawsuit and the injury.
Yeah.
It's kind of like back-to-back blows.
joe rogan
So for eight months, you're rehabbing it, and just still, when did you know that for sure you're going to be able to come back?
andre ward
You kind of turn the corner and rehab.
You know, three-month mark, four-month mark, you kind of realize, dude, I'm good.
I'm not where I need to be, but I'm headed there.
So probably about that time, about halfway through, you realize that you're going to be okay.
It's just going to take some time to fully get the strength back.
But even my next fight against Edwin Rodriguez, I still didn't throw it.
And I didn't realize I didn't throw it until I watched the tape.
I watched the tape, I was like...
It was like a one-handed affair.
And then after that, the thing about injuries is weird.
That 12-month period for me has always been just like that sweet spot.
So I got to that 12-month period with the shoulder and all of a sudden my overhand right came back.
I hadn't thrown an overhand right in 10 years.
The power in my right uppercut came back.
I'm like, dude, this is getting better.
So after that...
Then you started to see that thing flying and started whistling.
And ironically enough, my last fight, that was the punch that started all the trouble for Sergey Kovalev.
joe rogan
Well, it's interesting because you were so successful with one hand.
It makes you wonder, how goddamn good would you have been if you had two hands?
Or was it your left hand was so educated?
andre ward
It had to be.
joe rogan
It had to be, but one of the things you were so good at, man, was, I don't have to tell you, you know this, was using your jab to shut down southpaw fighters, shut down their jab and counter.
You know, and you just had that, you had like extra juice with your left hand because you used it so much.
andre ward
I had to.
When you have one hand or one arm that functions really well, you learn to make that thing great.
You overcompensate, and that's what that left hand was, overcompensation because I didn't have the right hand to fall back on.
But the whole Southpaw thing, shout out to my boy Nick and Nate Diaz and all the work we've done in camp.
Those guys got me ready for a lot of my Southpaw opponents midway through and toward the end of my career.
A lot of work with those guys, and specifically Nate.
At a certain point, I stopped working with Nick because he was doing other things, but Nate, man, and the volume and having to deal with the awkwardness and the height and the reach, that got me ready for Chad Dawson.
joe rogan
That's amazing.
andre ward
That's my boy.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's a tough dude, man.
Watching him come back after three years out of the game and beat Pettis like that.
andre ward
I shot him a message.
I was like, bro, you're a bad man.
You're a bad man.
Like three years, really?
He's a bad man.
joe rogan
Well, I'm just happy that the UFC is finally recognizing the love and support that guy has from the fans, too.
Because for whatever reason, they were so high on Conor McGregor and all these other people, they didn't see.
One of the reasons why the Conor fight was so big was because of Nate Diaz.
Nate Diaz is a fucking star.
When they put his face on the screen for the Pettis fight, I mean, the arena erupted.
It was chaos.
They went nuts.
andre ward
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know why they couldn't see it.
I mean, Conor obviously was, you know, he was a little bit different and he brought what he brought to the table, but probably would have been a good thing to try to balance them both out, show love to Nate.
But, you know, he was like the rebel child.
You know, he'd say whatever came to his mind and, you know, the powers that be, they don't like that.
joe rogan
I think he was a little overshadowed by his brother, too, because, you know, when your brother's a superstar, there's something about, I mean, and especially, like, his brother, when he was fighting in Strikeforce, in particular, was one of the best fighters in the world.
He was just amazing.
And then, you know, especially, like, you know, during, like, his title reign, like, when he was at his peak when he was fighting in Strikeforce.
But for whatever reason, they just, you know, Nate just flew under the radar.
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
Until that Conor McGregor fight, the first one.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
Then they recognize.
joe rogan
Yeah, I hope they capitalize on it now while he still has a few years left.
andre ward
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's that whole layoff thing.
Not even trying to stay relevant, but just trying to keep your skills from eroding.
That's a whole thing right there.
And then trying to go perform after that amount of time, it's hard.
He and me have fallen from that and not come back the same.
joe rogan
He didn't lose a beat.
It was crazy.
He looked as good as ever.
andre ward
It was amazing.
The good thing is, though, he seems to always be working.
And that's what saved me when I was off.
Just always chipping away in the gym.
Him and his brother, they got their own schools, and they're always in there grappling, working out.
So that's what saved him.
Now, if you take off...
Three years of nothing, two years of nothing, a year of nothing, that's when you come back and you look like a totally different person.
joe rogan
I always point to Muhammad Ali.
When Muhammad Ali was forced to retire, when he took three years off and then he came back, he did not look physically like the same guy.
You know, who did he come back and fight?
It wasn't Chuck Wepner.
It was, uh, what the fucks his name?
andre ward
Was it Zero Folly?
joe rogan
No, no, no, no, no.
It was, um...
It's a tragic guy.
A white dude.
And then his brother was also like...
How can I not remember his fucking name?
unidentified
I don't think I know who you're talking about, man.
joe rogan
Jamie will pull it up.
andre ward
I know who you're talking about, too.
Corey.
joe rogan
Yes.
Jerry Corey.
Yeah, Jerry Corey.
And his brother, apparently, who only had like one or two pro fights at all, also had severe dementia by the time he died.
andre ward
He had how many fights?
His brother?
joe rogan
His brother only had a couple.
I think he won a couple of pro fights.
It was mostly just gym wars.
I think I remember correctly.
But Corey and his dad apparently forced them to have that kind of fight style.
They just went to war all the time.
And yes, during the end of his career, the end of his life, I should say.
andre ward
That's why I don't subscribe.
Here's the thing.
For me, this is my view on this.
If you love combat sports, if you love fighting, if you love boxing, you enjoy it all.
I love the guy that has to take two to give one But I also love the master.
And I'll just speak for boxing.
The problem that we have is we've ostracized the master of the game.
Instead of articulating what we're seeing or trying to articulate what we're seeing and leaving it right there, let it be what it is and let the fans decide what they like and don't like.
We've tried to tell the fans what they should.
This is boring.
Hold on.
That's the guy that's going to be speaking properly when all is said and done.
This guy, hopefully he is too, but the likelihood is a lot less because you take giving two to give one.
But as soon as that guy gets knocked out, then all of a sudden everybody turns on him.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
So I'm thankful that when I walked into the gym for the first time, my dad was scouring for a trainer.
Who could teach his son how to hit and not get hit.
He saw Verge, who became my godfather and has been my trainer for my whole career.
He said, man, I'm a fan of Muhammad Ali.
He said, I've had 15 amateur fights as a heavyweight.
Can you teach my son how to hit and not get hit?
If I heard it, that's my specialty.
But just think if my dad was on something else.
What if my dad was like, make my son tough.
I want him to take it and dish it up.
I may not be sitting before you right now.
joe rogan
And if you did, it would probably be a different kind of conversation.
Yeah, Virgil Hunter is a special guy.
He really is.
You could tell when you hear him talking.
You hear him talk about the game and the way he would formulate game plans and strategies.
Yeah.
You know, I remember, I think it was the Chad Dawson fight.
I think it was that when you knocked out Chad Dawson.
When, you know, you could see the look in his face of happiness and accomplishment.
But also, we got through the danger.
We did it.
It's over.
But game accomplished.
You know, when you have a special relationship, whether it's in MMA or whether it's in boxing...
Those special relationships between a trainer and a fighter, they're so valuable.
And to me, as a person who loves to watch the sport, I appreciate them so much because I know that you could get there on your own.
You can get there and have feuds with your trainer and break up.
Like Kovalev does.
Kovalev's John David Jackson for a while, and now I like that he's with Buddy McGurk.
Buddy, yeah.
It's better if you have a real harmonious relationship with a master, because that's what Virgil Hunter is.
He's a master.
He understands the game.
He understands it inside and out.
andre ward
One thing he used to always tell me, and I never looked at it like that, he was like, son, my sole purpose, my main focus is to get you home safe to your family.
He said it's not for us to win championships.
It's not for you to be all everything.
It's to get you home to Tiffany and those kids safely.
And when he said that, it just put it all in perspective for me.
He's a competitor.
He wants to win, but not at the expense of my health.
And because he taught me the right way, we got the wins and the belts and everything anyway, and then I was also able to go home to my family.
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's an amazing relationship.
You know, one of the things that always stood out to me about you was how composed you are, and you rarely get emotional.
You know, even, like, I remember when you fought Karl Frotch.
Karl Frotch hit you clearly after the bell, clearly in a fight you were dominating, and you just went like this.
He just said, you didn't even get mad.
You didn't go, fuck you.
You did nothing.
You took that punch and you just went...
Turned and just went back to your corner like it never happened like you just just wiped it clean like that's not gonna benefit me to get upset here.
How did you develop that kind of composure?
andre ward
I think one thing that my dad and Verge did really well for me and my brother Jonathan who box with me for many years They gave us mental reps.
Like I'd be driving in the car or riding in the car with Verge or my dad and they'd be telling me, listen, man, when you get in that ring, when you spar today, man, listen, I do try to hit you low.
You make sure you get your respect.
You don't accept this in the ring.
Like this is these are things that I was taught.
I was like I was taught to be a warrior at a young age.
And oftentimes trainers will train the body, but they don't train the mind.
So, plus, and also life experiences, things that I've been through with my mom, my dad, and just all that kind of stuff, plus my internal makeup, the way God made me.
All of that combined, I never had to be the loudest talker in the room because I knew that...
All the stuff, the real stuff, it's in me.
It's not on me.
So I'm the type that you hit me like that, I'm going to smile at you.
I got you.
We got another round to fight, sir.
So my anger, my get back, I'm going to get it within the confines of these rules, but you're going to feel me.
Kovalev knocked me down.
All right, bro, I got you.
I smiled.
You're embarrassed.
unidentified
You're embarrassed.
andre ward
You're mad, you're frustrated, you're everything.
And then that eight second, that eight count you're getting, you feel every emotion you could possibly feel.
But inside, I knew like, now you're going to have to knock me out because I'm coming to get it.
So some of it is innate.
Some of it was taught.
And then throughout the course of my life and career, I was given the mental reps.
Hey, son, watch him right here.
Watch how so-and-so pushed his hand down and he got right back in his face.
Not out of the ring, but in the ring.
Teaching me and showing me and highlighting what a strong mind was and what a weak mind was.
And typically, the weak mind was the loudest talker.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I love a guy that can talk the talk and back it up.
There's not a lot of those in the game, no.
MMA or boxing.
So, I'm afraid of the guy who's not saying very much.
The guy that's hard to read.
The guy we're trying to figure out.
Man, what's up with him?
That's the guy I'm concerned about.
The loudest talker.
I used to get excited when guys used to just go over the top.
I'd be like, man, this dude, I got him.
unidentified
I got him.
andre ward
Keep talking.
I got him.
Same thing with Kovalev.
Fought the first fight.
Clothes could have went either way.
But from the time the first fight ended until the time the second fight started, I learned more about that guy in that period of time than I did in any round that I fought him in.
He said so much.
And I was poking holes in it.
I was quiet and I was just sitting back.
And everybody was misreading the silence.
Like, oh, Ward's scared.
He's not going to take the reading, man.
I'm just sitting there like, man, I'm taking notes, man.
This guy, keep talking.
Keep talking.
And he was just saying things.
I was like, this is a weakness.
Now, if he would have said, look, I felt like I won that fight.
I felt like they robbed me.
I'm coming back to get it.
And then went silent, went dark.
Now I'm like, man, this dude is getting ready.
We got to tighten up.
Kept talking, man.
Sometimes that talking will reveal a little bit too much about yourself.
joe rogan
What did you see from the talking?
andre ward
Just excuse making.
He didn't give me any credit.
I'm exaggerating, but just for the case of emphasis, if the ring lights weren't too bright, the referee was against him.
If it wasn't the referee, it was the judges.
He never owned up to anything that he did wrong.
But if I go back to the research that we did about him before we even fought him the first time, that line doubled what we heard.
The guy, he doesn't take ownership of anything.
He blames everybody.
Anytime anything goes wrong, he's a frontrunner.
He's a bully.
He's this, he's that.
That confirmed everything we had heard.
So, you're the crusher.
You're Sergei Kovalev.
You knocked me down in the second round.
Not the 11th.
The second round.
You were supposed to finish me, sir.
The fact that we're even talking about a fight being close.
The fact that I finished the fight.
That's bothering you.
That's chipping away at this whole crusher thing that you've been living on, and he couldn't handle it.
And instead of owning it, he blamed John David Jackson.
He blamed this guy, blamed that guy.
That's a sign of weakness, man, not strength.
joe rogan
Were you impressed with him getting through the eighth round against Yard in his last fight?
andre ward
I wouldn't say impressed.
I mean, listen, he hasn't gotten where he's gotten by not being tough.
So generally speaking, he's tough.
He's a tough individual to a point.
I wasn't surprised.
I was just, I was like, dude, if you ever, if a fighter has ever been saved by the bail, you were just saved by the bail.
Like you were a punch or two away from getting, you know, getting stopped in your home country and in your home, your home city, hometown.
That was the only kind of like jarring part of it.
And then my next thought was, can he recover?
Is he going to be able to physically recover, then psychologically come back and try to get back what Yard took from him in that round?
And he did that.
So he showed me that he still got something in the tank, but he was the right way to say it.
He's fading fast.
Like, he's fading right before our eyes.
He doesn't have the reaction.
He doesn't have...
He's still very good.
He still can beat a lot of guys, but he's fading fast.
If there's a Canelo fight on the table, I think you should take it and ride off in the sunset, man.
Go enjoy your life.
joe rogan
Well, it was interesting how you exposed him in the second fight.
Because the body shots have been a weakness since then.
Everybody has kind of compromised his body.
They've found what you found out.
Is that something you knew going into the second fight?
Or did you know it in the first fight?
andre ward
We knew that in the first fight.
joe rogan
Did you?
andre ward
The problem with me in the first fight, the first couple rounds, I was thinking too much.
And this dude came out fast.
So I'm thinking, I'm trying to get my range, and he's like, boom, boom, boom.
And it's not that he's like this crazy power puncher.
It's just that he's sharp and he's accurate.
So I'm like catching shots.
I'm getting hit with jabs.
I'm trying to figure he didn't give me a chance to think.
And then, boom, I got hit with the right hand.
And I'm like, that's it, bro.
So that was the best thing that could happen to me, like I said earlier.
And then you saw the body attack get implemented.
So that was always the game plan.
I won the second fight with everything that I did in the first fight.
Like we unlocked the code in the first fight.
But people couldn't get past the knockdown.
They failed to look at the next 10 rounds.
joe rogan
But yeah, the next 10 rounds you started to take over and you were solving the riddle.
It's interesting the difference in power punchers.
There's levels of power punchers.
We always thought of him as this power puncher.
Because he's the crusher.
He knocked a lot of people out.
But then there's like a Julian Jackson level.
There's a snap!
And then people just go stiff and fall over.
andre ward
George Foreman.
joe rogan
Yes.
andre ward
Like George could kill you.
Yes.
He hits right.
joe rogan
The Joe Frazier fight.
Yes.
Like Jesus Christ.
Yes.
Terrifying.
andre ward
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, George was one of them.
I mean, there's been a bunch of guys like that, but that's that different level of power punching.
I mean, Ernie Shavers was another one.
There's certain guys.
You know, I mean, fuck, man.
Thomas Hearn's in his prime.
andre ward
Tommy Hearn.
joe rogan
The way he put away Roberto Duran.
Holy shit.
andre ward
Didn't kill you.
joe rogan
And also the torque, you know, there was so much distance between like the length of his arms, the width of his shoulders, and then blap when that punch would come in.
Jesus!
andre ward
Catch you on the end, you got trouble.
joe rogan
You get caught in that last power area.
andre ward
Yes, yes.
joe rogan
He would just put the lights out.
Kurt Kovalev never had that kind of power.
It was like a snapping power.
andre ward
I mean, listen, he did have power.
I don't want to take away from him.
No, yes, definitely.
He beat a lot of guys in their hometowns, home countries, and that's a reason why.
At a certain point in the fight, you would see him hit a guy, and then all of a sudden their body language was different.
And I think one thing that was lost on my whole career that nobody ever talked about was I probably had one of the best chins in the sport of boxing over the last, you know, at that time, 10 years.
Like, I had beaten the best, the heaviest punchers in the game and in my weight class.
Like, if you look at Kovalev, out of all the damage that he's done in the light heavyweight division, he had 20 rounds.
He had one moment.
He didn't have a wobble.
He didn't shake me up anywhere.
One moment, and it was a flash moment.
So just quantify that.
Like a guy who, his name is The Crusher.
Like he is who he is.
He had one moment in 20 rounds.
So a lot of it had to do with my chin.
A lot of it had to do with my toughness, which is also underrated.
And I just like, I know this is going to sound dramatic.
I know it's going to sound dramatic, but I didn't like to lose.
And for me, it was kind of like either win or die.
Like, that's how I felt.
Like, it wasn't that serious, but that's how it felt.
Like, I always thought about Sunday morning.
Like, dude, if you lose, it's going to be a crazy ride home on that plane.
Family's going to be looking crazy, feeling bad.
Everybody's going to be looking at you different.
Like, and you're going to feel crazy.
Like, I remember being curled up, like, in a ball on a Southwest flight, coming back from Lenexa, Kansas, losing the last fight I ever lost against John Revish.
A guy from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
joe rogan
How old were you back then?
14. That is hilarious.
14. 14 years old.
Till retired.
Never lost again.
andre ward
And John was, it was a 14, 15 year old bracket.
So he was a little bit older.
And he was kind of a stocky kid.
Again, country strong.
And we were watching each other in separate backers.
So, you know, it's like a five day tournament.
You can fight four to five times and get to the finals.
And I'm looking at him.
And I was a little bit intimidated.
He didn't punk me like, oh, I'm scared to death, but I was like, man, I'm a little leery.
And he was knocking guys out, and I was decisioning guys along the way.
It could have went either way.
I think he won a 3-2 decision.
Three judges went his way, two judges went my way.
But if I was honest with myself, I got beat before the fight.
And at that moment, like, feeling the way I felt coming home, I made up my mind, like, dude, as much as that's up to me, like, that's never going to happen again.
Like, I can't control every aspect of the fight game.
Stuff happens, but it's not going to be because you beat me before the fight.
I can't live with this anymore.
So that was my motivation, man, just the drive.
Like, it was like, win or die.
And then here's the thing about boxing.
I don't know about MMA, but the only sport that I know of where one loss changes your pay scale.
Like, if you have a minimum, like, hey, you win a title, your first defense is this, second defense is that, these are your minimums, we'll negotiate beyond that, you know, whatever, whatever.
Go ahead and lose one.
That's going to get cut in half.
So a loss literally takes food off my family's table.
I also knew that my critics and my supporters, but namely my critics, they had a front row seat every fight.
unidentified
They're looking down and looking up.
andre ward
So I'd get in the ring, you know, before the first bell would ring, and I'd go around and kind of just feel the ring out and kind of look out, and I'd always see them looking.
Is tonight going to be the night?
So I had that weighing on me.
I had the supporters that believed in me and was riding for me.
First couple rows, my family's right there.
My wife, my kids, I'd always blow her a kiss.
All of this stuff was tangible and real to me.
And that's the stuff that would drive me.
And so when I get knocked down by a Kovalev, that's fight or flight time, baby.
Like, whatever's in you is going to come out.
If you got some turn in you, that's the time you're going to turn.
It's going to be self-preservation mode.
And you're going to be more focused on surviving than you are trying to win.
And I thank God, man, that he had his hand on me that night, bro.
And that what...
What's in me was real.
And it was enough to break him.
And the rest is history.
joe rogan
The rest is history.
It is amazing how much energy people get from haters.
I mean, I don't recommend reading negative comments or negative articles.
But it's amazing how people with a certain kind of resolve, a championship resolve, will take that hater shit and you'll get up 15 minutes earlier than you're supposed to.
And you'll have more intensity in your shadowboxing and you'll just push harder.
You'll feel it.
andre ward
But I don't want to give the haters too much credit.
joe rogan
Well, it's all you.
andre ward
I don't want to give the haters too much credit.
joe rogan
Well, they gave you fuel, though.
andre ward
But it was weird, though.
And I don't even know how to quantify.
I don't even know how to explain it.
But early in my career, they got a lot more credit.
And I got great mentors, man.
My pastor, Napoleon Kaufman, former raider.
He's a great man of God.
Just a great, great man.
I would always call him like, man, pastor, man, they're hating on me.
And he'd be like, listen son, listen, stop giving these people all this credit, man.
He said, listen man, they got...
They can't do anything to you unless God allows them.
Stay focused on what you got to do.
So I started to get it as I evolved in my pro career and as I started to mature as a man.
So I knew they were there.
That element was always going to be there, but I started letting that element work for me.
I wouldn't just be enamored with it and I wouldn't just sit there and read comments and stuff.
Frankly, the last three or four years of my career, I didn't read a mention of Not one mention on Twitter.
I didn't look at comments on Instagram.
Every now and again, something would slip through.
But I knew they were there.
And I knew generally what was being said.
I knew generally what the articles in the headline would read.
So it was there.
But the real driving force was the people that were writing for me, fighting for me, supporting me, believing in me.
That element was there.
And I was going to address that element through my performance.
But I don't want to give them too much credit, though.
They don't deserve that much.
joe rogan
No, they don't deserve that much credit.
andre ward
But they're good.
They're good to have.
joe rogan
There's something there.
But you were very wise in the way you managed their influence by not reading those comments.
andre ward
Not all the time, but I got the revelation, like I said, at a certain point.
Like, man, I'm done with this, bro.
I'm not doing this.
I only started to read comments again.
Frankly, I didn't watch boxing for the past three or four years of my career.
Really?
And I'm a boxing buff.
joe rogan
Why didn't you watch?
andre ward
I was burnt out.
The opinions.
The biased.
The double standards.
Good stuff too, but I was just burnt.
And it was so weird for me because I'm the guy that would break his neck to go watch Tuesday night Gillette fights as a kid.
Like, dude, I gotta get back.
Dude, you don't even know who's fighting.
It doesn't matter.
It's two guys in the ring.
I'm watching it.
Friday night fights for many years.
I was over it.
Going through what I went through with the lawsuit.
Going through what I went through with the injuries.
The highs and lows and everything in between.
I was just burnt out.
Out.
joe rogan
Can you refresh my memory?
The lawsuit was a promotion lawsuit.
andre ward
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was a, you know, I can't get too much into it, but it was just something that, man, I just, I fought for myself.
And, you know, but it was a long two-year journey.
On my best day, I'm like, you're doing the right thing, son.
Stay in the race.
Keep fighting.
It may not be going your way now, but just stay, like, you're not fighting.
Money's not coming in, but just stay the course.
You're doing the right thing.
On my worst day, I'm like, bro, You're blowing it.
You're getting rushed on you.
You know, people are writing, I would rather fight in the courtroom than fight in the ring.
And I'm like, dude, that's not it.
I'm just trying to fight for what I believe is true.
But I grew up a lot.
But coming out of that, I was like, man, I'm done with all that stuff, man.
Like, I don't know how many years I got left in this sport, but I'm not focused on y'all.
I got to focus on me.
And it wasn't until I retired and got full time into broadcasting and commentating that I started to watch again.
I started to You know, understand who was out there on the, you know, in the landscape and researching it.
But I didn't watch it for many years.
That's crazy.
Yeah, I was done.
joe rogan
It makes sense.
I mean, you probably in your early days were so hungry for boxing because you had so much desire that you wanted to watch it all the time.
andre ward
Excuse me.
joe rogan
The amount of effort required to become a champion.
andre ward
But you don't see the behind the scenes, though.
Then you grow up and you see the business side.
And you see the dark side and it's like, it's different.
joe rogan
The darkness.
andre ward
The dark side.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a lot of that, man, in boxing.
I mean, it's historical.
The Don King, Mike Tyson stories.
I mean, there's so many stories.
And Don King, Muhammad Ali.
There's so many stories like that.
It's so sad.
It's an awful side of the business.
It is.
Now, was this before or after the Super 6 tournament?
andre ward
Which one?
joe rogan
That all this was going on with the lawsuits.
It was after.
andre ward
Shortly after.
joe rogan
So the Super 6 tournament, though, was where people knew you were an Olympic gold medalist, but that was where, like, coming into that, who was the favorite?
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
The favorite was kind of like threefold, but it was Kessler.
Arthur Abraham was dominant at 160. He had just moved up to 68, so everybody felt like it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to dominate at the heavier weight class.
Carl Frotch was the WBC champion, but he was still kind of like relatively unknown.
Like, you know, he had potential, had a belt, but, you know, he was probably, you know, I don't know, the third favorite.
And then you had...
Andre Durrell.
Obviously, you had myself and you had Jermaine Taylor.
And the Americans, or at least this is how I viewed it, we were just there to make it interesting.
It wasn't about us.
It was the Europeans party.
And it's funny because I almost didn't fight in a tournament.
I was in Mexico on vacation.
And I've been hearing about the Super 6s.
But internally, me and my manager, he was like, I don't think these things will come together.
These guys are fighting.
Hey, man, go enjoy your vacation.
So I did that.
I flew into San Diego.
We drove to Mexico.
And I ended up getting like a double ear infection.
I was messed up.
joe rogan
From the ocean?
andre ward
Probably.
Just something like that.
Yeah, it just kind of came upon me.
I don't know.
I don't exactly know the origin of it.
So I'm like, I had a little bit of internet access.
I'm looking at stuff.
I'm like, these guys are like, wait, they're doing a kickoff press conference in New York.
So I called James.
I'm like, Jay, what's up?
He was like, hey, man, you need to get there like ASAP, bro.
This thing's going down.
I'm like, whoa.
I'm like, you told me it wasn't going to happen.
He's like, I didn't think it was.
But he was also like, you know what, though?
If you don't want to go, it's all good.
We'll figure it out.
So I'm like, man, I don't want to go.
I'm just with my family.
I called Verge.
I give him the whole spiel.
It's probably like two, three times in my life he's had this kind of tone.
He was like, listen, son, you need to get on a plane.
You're not going to make the New York press conference.
The next stop is Germany, Arthur Abraham's home country.
Get there.
I'm like, man, I'm with my family.
Give him the whole spiel.
He said, get there.
So we pack up, we drive two or three hours to San Diego, get on a flight, drive my family back to the Bay Area, boom, drop them off, get on a flight of Red Eye that night, double ear infection, wake up in Germany, and that was their second stop, but that was my first stop.
And that's when I really got the revelation that, man, this is a joke.
They think that me, Darrell, and Taylor, we're just going to...
That's when I took exception and I was when I really kind of like realized the dude like this is either this is gonna be a sink or swim moment for you either you gonna get like I could have got ruined in the super six like it could have went a whole nother way or What I knew was in me was gonna be you know displayed and shown to the world and so when you beat Kessler and you won your first title that had to be a beautiful moment unreal unreal unreal and it was in my hometown Like
the same arena, Oracle Arena, where the Warriors have played for many, many years.
And I'm kind of salty.
They're leaving, man.
They're going to chase arena.
I'm not happy, man.
I'm not happy.
I used to pass by that arena on Highway 880 going to King's Gym.
And I used to look, and it'd be on the right side.
And I'd be like, man, Virgil, I wonder if I'm going to fight there one day.
He said, baby, fight there.
You're going to headline.
unidentified
I was like, really?
andre ward
I'm talking 12, 13 years old.
unidentified
Wow.
andre ward
I'm like, man, I'm a headline?
And Kessler's arrogance allowed that fight to take place in my hometown.
He had more knockouts than I had victories.
I'm not even going to beat him.
I'm going to beat him in his hometown.
So we fought there.
I think it was November 19th.
And just unreal, man.
And for a gold medalist, people don't understand the pressure you have coming into the game.
Everything you do well, you're expected to do well, but if there's one slip-up, now it's like everybody comes out the woodworks.
I told you he wasn't going to be there.
So to get the monkey off my back to win my first title, that release of pressure was just immense.
joe rogan
I remember when I was a kid, when the Olympic team had so many guys that went on to win world champions, like Pernell Whitaker.
Was it the 76th Olympic team?
84. Pernell Whitaker, Mark Breland.
There was so many guys from that era.
That was Meldrick Taylor.
Who else?
Who else?
andre ward
Holyfield was there, but I think Holyfield got disqualified.
He got a silver.
joe rogan
Right.
Something happened.
When you think about the amount of pressure that, I mean, so many people were looking at those guys.
And I remember when Breland lost to Marlon Starling.
We got knocked up by Marlon Starling.
I remember so many people were happy.
They were happy that he lost.
Like, ah, another Olympic gold medalist.
You know, he couldn't take him.
God, first of all, goddamn, Marlon Starling was a fucking killer.
He was a killer and a super slick.
andre ward
Yep.
joe rogan
You know, just a real seasoned knockout artist and an excellent boxer.
You know, I mean, it wasn't...
That's just a great boxer beat another great boxer.
But there was a weird feeling to it.
Like, people were happy that Breland lost.
I was like, wow, this is...
That's crazy pressure.
andre ward
It's different.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
It's different.
And people talk about pressure all the time.
Like, how'd you deal with this?
How'd you deal with that?
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
I credit my faith in God and just feeling like there was a purpose for me to be in the game as the foundational reason.
But the practical reason was I've been dealing with pressure since I've been a baby.
Having two parents who were drug addicted at a young age, and one is a functional addict, and my dad, who raised me as a single parent, and then my mother was a full-blown addict for many, many years.
She's clean now.
She's doing good.
Like, that's pressure.
Started there.
Then, like, coming up throughout the ranks and, like, dealing with haters and all this stuff in the gym, in your private gym.
Well, not private gym, but the gym that you train at.
And you got some people that are with you.
Man, this kid's going to be the next.
And you got some people over there in the corner mumbling.
That kid ain't going to be nothing.
He's all right.
Like, you learn to deal with that stuff then.
Then go into the national tournaments.
You're dealing with people from all over the U.S. Then you go into the world tournaments.
Like, that's pressure.
Then you get to a point, so when I fought a guy like Sergey Kovalev, I'd already seen him before.
I'd fought Kovalev 15, 20 times in my career already.
The big, you know, menacing guy who everybody's afraid of.
Like, I've fought him before.
I fought him in the Olympics.
I fought three Russians in the Olympics.
So it wasn't that, oh, I'm guaranteed to win, but I had seen that before.
Even the critics and all the people.
Like, I've been dealing with this stuff my whole life.
And it wasn't anything new.
Does it feel good?
Absolutely not.
I mean, your hope is that everybody supports you.
But, you know, as successful as this podcast is...
You got your boo birds.
You have your critics.
joe rogan
Boo birds.
I never heard them talk like that.
unidentified
Boo birds.
Boo birds.
andre ward
You got people that as soon as you slip up, I knew he was going to.
That's part of the game, man.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That must have enhanced your relationship with Virgil.
It must have.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because he believed in you.
andre ward
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
When you fought for the world title in that very arena where he said you were going to be headlining when you were like 12, 13 years old, what the fuck was that like?
That must have been amazing.
andre ward
It's surreal, man.
You're just trying to manage your emotions.
I remember the night before the fight, I had my guy, Jack, Edward Jackson, man, who's a great coach, great assistant, great strength and conditioning coach, boxing coach from Houston, Texas.
He'd been with me from day one.
I said, man, I got to get out of the room, man.
We drove to Trader Joe's just to get some Clif bars.
I just needed to clear my head.
And I remember talking to my Uncle Bob, who was my dad's best friend.
He wasn't my blood uncle, but he's basically like an uncle to me.
Huge boxing fan.
I remember just talking to him.
And I'm saying, baby, tomorrow's your day.
I'm going to be there front row, baby.
Tomorrow's your day.
Your dad always dreamed about this moment.
And just tears running down my eyes because I was just feeling the pressure.
I'm like, dude, I'm getting ready to fight for a world title at home.
The pressure, you can cut it with a knife.
But to be able to bear up under it and to go get it done, bro.
Unreal.
Unreal.
You couldn't script it any better.
joe rogan
Was the second fight with Kovalev your second most satisfying fight?
andre ward
I liked the first one better.
joe rogan
The first fight better?
Really?
Because you managed to survive and come back and then start out pointing out.
andre ward
I just got it a different way.
I got it a different way.
And...
joe rogan
That's crazy that you like that fight better.
That's interesting.
That says a lot about you.
andre ward
Yeah, I love the moment with me and Verge in the corner.
He showed his worth.
I already knew what he had, but he showed his worth.
He said, baby, listen.
Ali's been knocked down.
Sugar Ray's been knocked down.
They got up.
Now you get up.
Those are moments you live for.
You don't want to be on the canvas, but if you happen to find yourself there, you want to know that your team has what it takes, and you want to know that you have what it takes.
I was a second round, bro.
I clawed back 10 rounds against that guy.
The biggest night of my life.
And then having to deal with everything afterward.
It built me, man.
It made me strong.
Like, stronger.
And...
I won the second fight again with the first fight.
I already broke him in the first fight.
Something happened to him.
Right around the sixth round, he was still trying to win to a degree, but I knew physically.
I was like, man, I got him.
He's not the same.
Of course, he's going to whine about the decision because it didn't go his way, but I beat him in the first fight.
The second fight was the window dressing.
We just picked up where we left off.
But everything that transpired in the second fight really started in the first fight.
joe rogan
The second fight, it was stunning to me when it seemed like he just quit.
Because it didn't seem like...
I mean, it almost seemed like a premature stoppage.
But then you realize that he didn't want to fight any longer.
andre ward
Tony Wiggs did a great job.
He saved a couple of times.
joe rogan
He did.
andre ward
I mean, you know, in hindsight...
You know, you wish you would have landed the one shot and he went, you know, he got knocked out and it was clear.
But listen, man, all the excuses and stuff, like I was thinking about this the other day.
Every big win that I've had, there was an excuse attached to it.
So you go back to Kessler.
Oh, he headbutt me.
He's fighting dirty.
No, I'm fighting in a style that you don't know how to deal with.
If you look at Carl Frotch.
Oh, it was boring.
Why didn't you make it more interesting?
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
You look at Chad Dawson.
Oh, he was weight drained.
Chad Dawson called me out.
I was at home minding my own business, and he said, I want to fight Andre Ward.
I'll come down to his weight, and I'll fight him in Oakland.
You look at Kessler.
I mean, you look at Kovalev.
First fight, I got robbed.
Second fight, they cheated me.
Come on, y'all.
Every big win that Andre Ward has cannot have an asterisk next to it.
Either I'm not the guy that...
My record says that I am or somebody's not being honest over here.
You see what I'm saying?
joe rogan
But don't you think that's inherent with boxing when there's certain people that don't ever want to accept defeat no matter what and when there's a situation where there's a possible reason why they lost that didn't sort of fit into the rule books like he hit me low or they stopped it too soon or the Kovalev fight you know like the second fight in particular like the first fight maybe he could make an argument That he thinks he should have won a decision, but the second fight.
I mean, he wasn't jumping up, looking to beat that eight count, dust his gloves off, and get back at it.
He was basically surrendering.
andre ward
He was done, man.
joe rogan
Those body shots were for...
andre ward
Just everything.
People forget about the right hand that started all the trouble.
unidentified
Yes.
andre ward
Where he did the funny dance and then the 15 unanswered shots after that.
And I would probably say out of the body shots that landed, maybe one straight a little low.
But again, bro, your name is the crusher.
If you hit me low, and I try to be as fair as I possibly can, I'm coming to get that back, bro.
If I feel like it's intentional, if it's an accident, it's all good.
It happens.
But if you're trying to dethrone me or beat me from a foul, I'm coming to get that back.
Why all of a sudden, all the people that said that you're not going to beat Kovalev, look what he did to this guy, he's going to do the same thing to you, you're too small.
Those are the same people coming to the rescue of a guy whose nickname is a crusher and who's menacing and all the stuff I've been saying.
He should be able to defend himself.
He should be able to get me off of him.
A little guy that just moved up from 168?
A little old me?
joe rogan
Well, the thing about Kovalev, too, he killed a guy early in his career, right?
andre ward
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that was something that, you know, there's a feeling when a guy's done that.
There's a fear to facing that guy.
andre ward
And I had to face that fear.
I had to face that fear.
I'm human.
So that was presented to me.
But that's where the mindset comes into play.
That's where my faith comes into play.
It's like, listen, man, unfortunately that happened to that guy, but you ain't doing that to me.
That's the mindset part.
If you allow that stuff to seep in, take root, and start to fester in your heart and your mind, you'll never get past the starting line.
You'll go out there and be like, man, who was that dude that was performing that night?
That wasn't me.
He was going to have to do something to me because I was coming to win, man.
And again, it's not that I'm just, I'm not the toughest guy in the world, but I just believed what I believed.
I felt like I was there for a reason.
And unfortunately, that happened to that young man, but I just didn't believe that was going to happen to me.
And that's what I had to keep feeding myself in order to get past that and then go perform.
joe rogan
Now, how did you make the decision?
You stop him in the second fight.
How did you make the decision that that's it?
andre ward
It was almost it for me after the first fight.
Really?
Yeah.
That's the closest I've ever...
I've talked retirement in the past, like internally with my wife and stuff.
But after the first fight, I don't know if it was...
I think it was physical, like all the surgeries and rehab and just the years of fighting.
joe rogan
How many different surgeries did you have?
andre ward
About three.
joe rogan
All on the shoulder?
andre ward
Not shoulders, knee, yeah.
joe rogan
Meniscus or something?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
andre ward
I had one ACL, one meniscus.
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
I think it was the physical part.
I think it was just the toll of the sport.
And then maybe some of the reaction.
Like, you know, for a split second, I'm like, here we go again.
Like, it's always something, you know.
I beat the guy that you guys say I couldn't beat.
Now, you know.
People feel like I got robbed.
Like, that's a fight that could have went either way.
You know, by a point or two.
You can't have a polarizing opinion about it.
You may say, man, I thought Ward lost.
I can live with that.
But all the robbed stuff.
So I think it was a combination of just everything.
I was like, man, I'm done, man.
I'm not doing this no more.
I didn't do anything for three months after that fight.
I remember going to speak to my pastor about it because he did the same thing.
He was all everything at UW, played six years in the league, and all of a sudden, boom, one day he was like, I'm done, and never looked back.
So I went and sat with him, and I was like, man, pastor, I don't know, man.
I think I'm done.
He's just listening.
Very wise man.
So I'm giving him the whole spiel.
I'm like, man, I haven't done it in three months.
I've never done that.
That's got to be a sign.
I'm done.
He said, you know what, son?
He said, I think you'll be fine if you retire.
I think you got one more left in you.
I remember just, I thought he was gonna side with me.
I thought he was going to be like, yeah, son, that's it.
And I was a little disappointed.
Honestly, I was like, really?
I was like, yeah, but I told you I hadn't done anything in three months.
He was like, I know, I know, I know.
He said, once you get going, you know, the fire will be rekindled.
unidentified
Wow.
andre ward
So I took him at his word and I started to kind of get back going, moving my body.
And then that happened.
I started to get that fire back.
And once we got the money right, I was like, I'm going to do it again.
Boom.
Won the fight.
And I didn't know for sure, but I was kind of feeling like, okay, well, you know, I felt like that after the first one.
This may be it after the second one.
But then the opportunity started coming.
HBO had a three-fight deal on the table.
And basically, it was going to be a gimme fight in Oakland at home, kind of a celebration.
A move to Cruiserweight against Tony Bellew, probably in the UK. Did you want to move to Cruiserweight?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was nothing else.
I'd like heavyweight.
joe rogan
What about a rubber match that wasn't exciting for you?
No.
andre ward
Beat him twice.
joe rogan
Did Kovalev ask for a rubber match?
andre ward
No.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Really?
andre ward
I mean, he would probably put...
If somebody asked him, like, you want a rematch?
Yes, of course.
He didn't want it.
He didn't really want it.
So, that was the three-fight exit strategy with HBO. Give me a fight at Light Heavy.
I was probably going to do a catchweight at home.
Cruiserweight.
joe rogan
What did you walk around at?
andre ward
Back then?
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
About 85. So, you would have had to gain weight.
andre ward
I'd have had to tighten myself up at 85, 90. Probably a little weight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
The cruise rate limit is 90?
It's 200. It's 200?
andre ward
Yeah.
I probably wouldn't have got to two, though.
Probably would have been about 190, 192, something like that.
So that was a three-fight deal.
And the third fight was going to be Anthony Joshua.
Don't know if it would have been made.
We hadn't even gotten that far, but that was our plan.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
andre ward
Right?
joe rogan
How much would you have gained to get up to heavyweight?
andre ward
Maybe two.
joe rogan
That's it.
andre ward
Maybe two.
I'm never going to be as big as you guys, so why would I weigh myself down?
joe rogan
Right.
Yeah.
andre ward
Very dangerous situation, you know?
But that was something we were talking about.
And Verge mentioned it in the post-fight press conference with Kovalev.
joe rogan
That guy's fucking gigantic.
andre ward
But me and Verge hadn't talked about it.
Like, we talked about it, but we didn't say we were going to mention anything publicly.
joe rogan
Oh, and then he came out with it?
andre ward
And I'm sitting there, you know, I'm chilling.
I just won.
He's like, yeah, we want Anthony Joshua.
unidentified
I'm like...
andre ward
Chill, bro.
joe rogan
He's so much bigger than you.
andre ward
Yeah, it's all good, though.
joe rogan
That guy's gigantic.
andre ward
I've been fighting big guys my whole life.
joe rogan
I'm sure you have.
andre ward
So the three-fight deal was on the table.
And Roman Gonzalez, Saritsukai, Soren Visai were getting ready to fight their rematch at the Home Depot Center.
I think it was September 9th.
September 6th, that was a Wednesday.
I was supposed to be in LA to announce the new signing and get ready to call that fight.
That Wednesday, I come home and I'm kind of like, I'm not boo-hooing, but I'm in tears.
And I tell my wife, I was like, I don't want to do it anymore.
And even saying that sounded crazy to me.
She was like, she was just real quiet.
I'm thinking like, why is she not saying nothing?
I was like, I don't think I'm going to do this anymore.
And she said something she had never said previously.
Typically, she's like, babe, look, it's not time.
Come on, you got to get up.
I know you feel this way.
I know you're back, but come on.
I feel like you still got time in the sport.
First time she ever agreed with me, she was like, I think the decision is already made, Dre.
I was like, what?
She said, I think the decision is already made.
She said, I've been looking at you throughout this whole day and some of the stuff you've been saying and I've never really seen you like this.
She said, I think it's already made.
I took that out, bro.
Started making phone calls.
Called my lawyer who's, you know, one of my good friends, Josh Dubin.
I said, hey, bro, I think that may be it for me.
And he had been wanting me to be, you know, done.
He was like, if you feel that way, bro, I'm going to support you.
Called my manager the next morning.
And it took us.
So I went that weekend and called the fight.
We held off on the announcement.
And my lawyer just told HBO, like, look, he's going through some things.
We're good.
Give us a couple of days.
So I got through that weekend.
And he said, do you still feel like that come Monday morning?
I was like, bro, I think I'm done.
Long story short.
We ended up announcing it September 21st.
It was like a two-week period.
We were trying to keep it under wraps.
But I was undoing all the stuff.
I was letting the necessary people know.
Roc Nation, HBO, everybody know.
And the night before I announced it, man, me and my good friend, who's a director, he's also directing my doc, Deontay Thompson, we put together this video.
It was like a legacy video where I had my young son, my middle son, and my oldest son.
And those were like, you know, that was me at that point in time in my career.
And we did this whole video that I was going to announce my retirement with.
And I actually have the doc that I'm working on right now.
It's about this.
Like, why did the best fighter of the world at that time walk away from the sport on top?
Shot that video out, man.
The day of my retirement, bro.
And the response was just overwhelming.
You know, it was overwhelming.
Like, I just couldn't believe the amount of people that were reaching out.
And it was like good and bad.
Like, it was good because I was getting support.
But it felt like somebody died.
Like, I felt like I died, bro.
I'm looking at these rest in peace, like, not literal rest in peace, but, like, the comments were, like, rest in peace, like, bro, are you, I couldn't believe, man, I'm, what, like, Ward, not you, man, oh my god, man, and it was just, it was, like, just this huge reaction, and it was overwhelming,
and in the two years that followed, Like I said at the beginning of this podcast, harder than I thought it was going to be, one of the hardest, if not the hardest thing I've ever had to do and still have to do.
It's a daily decision to be like, I'm not doing it no more.
But one of the most rewarding, man.
And it was a necessary evil.
And I hope that one day, man, the young guys can look up one day and say, man, I'm going to do the Andre Ward.
I'm done.
I'm out.
Like, how long do we have to do it before we feel satisfied?
Look, bro, save your money.
If you're not financially literate, go get some help.
Ask questions.
And as soon as you feel like you're not really there, you don't want to do it no more, right off in the sunset, bro.
There's other stuff you can do.
I hope to be an example in that area.
joe rogan
Well, it's so important, I think, for there to be a guy like you because people always have this narrative, fighters always come back.
They always fight like Sugar Ray Leonard did when he fought later in his career.
andre ward
Terry Norris.
joe rogan
Donnie Lalonde, but then he went and fought.
Yeah, the Terry Norris fight was hard to watch, man.
And then Hector Camacho stopped him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
andre ward
Camacho couldn't punch either.
joe rogan
It was when his calf was all fucked up back then and Billy Blanks was training him.
You remember that?
I mean, it's just sad when you see these guys just still try to do it over and over and over again until the same story keeps repeating itself.
When a guy like you, it was only Hagler before you.
Hagler was the only guy.
andre ward
Lennox Lewis too.
joe rogan
Oh, that's true.
Lennox Lewis.
andre ward
But it's a handful.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a handful.
andre ward
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, Lennox Lewis is a brilliant guy, too.
He plays chaffs.
He's articulate.
He's an interesting, intelligent guy that just said, eh, we're good.
We did everything we need to do.
We did everything we need to do.
Having those guys like you is so important for young fighters because they get told by the assholes, hey, all fighters are going to wind up with brain damage.
All fighters are going to wind up going out on their back.
They're all going to wind up coming back after their prime.
It's so important for guys like you to say, you know, no, you can manage it correctly.
These are shark-infested waters.
But if you stay on the rocks and you do your due diligence and you put in the work and your discipline and you fight correctly, I agree with you so wholeheartedly about appreciation of the masters.
Of a real masterful boxer.
When I always talk to people about Floyd Mayweather, they talk all this shit, he does this, he does that, he's got all this money.
I go, save all that.
Forget about his talking.
Watch how that guy fights.
He fucking barely gets hit.
He's been rocked maybe twice in his whole career.
Maidana and Sugar Shane Mosley.
Those are the only two.
The only two guys who cracked him.
And he wound up winning both those fights.
He's a master.
Masterful boxer.
And that's what everybody should emulate.
I mean, I love the Arturo Gotti, Mickey Ward fights as much as anybody did.
But if that was my son...
I'd be freaking the fuck out.
I'd be like, don't fight like that.
It's not worth it.
I don't give a fuck how many of these drunken assholes cheer you on.
They're not gonna be with you when you wake up in the morning, your head is pounding in your head, when you have a hard time looking at light, when you have to have all the shades closed, when just a little crack of light coming in through the shade is hurting you.
It's giving you a headache.
They're not going to be there with you when you're old.
andre ward
Verge used to always put it like this, and this has shut a lot of people down.
He said, man, let me ask you a question.
He'd do this to reporters and stuff, like if there was an open workout.
He knew there was a particular reporter in there that was, you know, rah, rah, and, you know, talking down against, you know, guys who could box.
He said, let me ask you a question.
You got kids?
Yeah.
You got a son?
Absolutely.
If you wanted your son to box, and it was two guys at the gym, And one coach said, hey man, I'm going to teach your son how to hit and not get hit.
Period.
I know this art.
I've mastered it and I'm going to help him master it.
And then you got this guy over here that said, look man, he may have to take two to give one, but look, he's going to be tough.
He's going to be durable.
And who would you send your kid with?
And they go, ah, the first guy.
Well, there you have it.
joe rogan
Well, I think there's a false narrative, too.
Here's the false narrative, is that the guy who takes two to give one is tougher.
I think that's nonsense.
I think the guy who hits and doesn't get hit can be just as tough, if not tougher.
andre ward
Yes, because it's harder.
It's not talked about.
Right.
It's a false narrative, to your point.
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
andre ward
Like, my lazy days in the gym would be, man, I'm just going to fight today, bro.
I'm going to stand toe to toe and just get it in.
I'm tired physically.
I'm not trying to, you know, execute this game plan today.
I'm just going to try to keep a tight defense and just go to war.
Those are my, those are my, like, my lazy days.
When you got to, like, embody, like, A game plan and then round after round, even when things aren't going your way, try to stick to that game plan.
Bro, that's hard.
That's draining, right?
And this is something, again, that I've never said because I don't like talking about myself, man.
I try to stay out the way.
But, bro, I was one of the toughest fighters in the sport of boxing for the past 10 years when I was active.
Period.
No question about it.
It's just not talked about.
The chin's not talked about.
You know, the toughness part, because it's not really associated with the guy who can, you know, do it a certain way.
But if you really think about my big fights and the big guys that could punch, like, I didn't beat them by moving away.
I beat them by being in their wheelhouse.
Period.
And even Floyd.
People don't realize.
We'll highlight visible times that we saw Floyd get hit.
Man, you're getting buzzed and all kind of stuff is going on.
People don't even know.
But we're chameleons as fighters.
We have to be.
Because if we show weakness, now it's water and shark-infested water.
I mean, it's blood and shark-infested water.
joe rogan
Sure.
Even in the Conor McGregor fight, he got clipped with a big left uppercut.
andre ward
Man, you get butt, bing, and you just tighten up.
And people think, oh, that wasn't a hard shot.
Yes, it was.
You just didn't know it.
Floyd has had to deal with that throughout the course of his career.
Many times that we didn't know.
joe rogan
I like how Floyd changed his style, too.
andre ward
He has, too.
joe rogan
With the Pretty Boy Floyd style early in his career.
I mean, he was much more knockout-oriented.
He was much more aggressive, but he would get hit more then, too.
andre ward
Yeah, he would.
joe rogan
And he also broke his hand a bunch of times, you know, and he just developed a smarter style.
But people don't remember those knockouts like when he you see that fight with a Japanese dude.
I had so many fucking arguments about that fight where they were trying to say that that was a very good fight.
That was a fixed fight.
I'm like, God damn it.
Listen to me.
That dude is 126 pounds.
He had no fucking business being in there with Floyd Mayweather ever, ever.
Forget about Conor McGregor.
Conor McGregor is a big man.
That's a tiny dude.
That dude is a 126-pound fighter.
He's fighting Floyd Mayweather, who's arguably the best boxer of all time, and Floyd doesn't even have to fucking train for that guy.
He came in there with a little bit of a belly, and he's just moving his arms around like this, smiling at him.
Hey, man, you fucked!
andre ward
You had never seen Floyd look like that before, man.
joe rogan
But he won easy, and people were saying, oh, look at how the guy went down.
That's how it happens when a big man, who's a real, natural welterweight, hits a 126-pound fighter.
That's what the fuck happened.
andre ward
And Floyd was trying to hurt him, too.
joe rogan
Yeah, he was trying to hurt him.
andre ward
It's almost like Floyd, I don't know what the agreement was, but it was almost like, yeah, exhibition, wink, wink.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
And Floyd's a competitor.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
Like, unapologetically.
He's coming to win every time.
You could tell Floyd was opening up.
Floyd was trying to hurt him.
joe rogan
Do you think he's going to go about it again?
Because there's talk of other fighters, there's talk of, I mean, he goes through money like water, and he's got a fuckload of it, but goddamn he loves to spend it, and he's had some financial troubles in the past because of his flashy lifestyle.
But his skill and his overall boxing ability and his ability to talk shit and generate interest have pulled him out of these problems.
andre ward
I hope not.
50 fights?
joe rogan
Pretty amazing.
andre ward
50 training camps?
That's enough.
joe rogan
Pretty amazing if he does stop.
Pretty amazing.
andre ward
That's enough.
Yeah.
He's retired on, what, three different occasions?
Came back?
Benefited from it?
I think he's good.
Selfishly, I would love to see it, but realistically, I think he's good.
joe rogan
The only thing I could think would maybe talk him out of it is if there was something that could generate a massive amount of money, like a Pacquiao fight.
Like a Pacquiao fight, you know, Pacquiao still, I mean, after he beat Keith Thurman, like, whoo!
andre ward
But what's a massive amount of money?
joe rogan
I don't know.
andre ward
Because he's had a massive amount of money.
joe rogan
I know.
andre ward
Umpteen times.
joe rogan
I would like to ask him, like, legitimately, hey man, how much you got left?
andre ward
I think he would do it for a B. There was a B behind it.
Could you imagine?
Like a strong, like, $750 million with upside.
Like, Floyd ain't turning down a B. Is that possible?
joe rogan
Can he get a billion dollars?
Why not, right?
If anybody could do it, right now it's Floyd.
andre ward
I mean, who would he fight?
I feel like Floyd would have to fight a young guy.
Like, he's done the Conor McGregor thing.
People are like, oh, you got us.
Like, he'd have to fight a real threat.
Because people would pay that kind of money to see that Ogo.
joe rogan
So, like who?
Who, like Terrence?
andre ward
It would have to be.
I don't know.
But again, I don't know commercially if Terrence is big enough.
I'm not sure.
I don't know if Errol Spence.
But it would have to be one of those kind of guys.
Errol, Terrence, before people would say, I don't care.
Pay-per-view is 200.
I don't care.
joe rogan
I don't think there's any star on that level right now.
I don't think there's any star on the level of where Floyd was when he was younger in his prime.
There's no one who generates that amount of eyes.
andre ward
A Canelo fight could do something like that.
joe rogan
It could.
But Canelo's talking about fighting Kovalev, right?
andre ward
But he would stop talking about fighting Kovalev.
joe rogan
And start running marathons.
unidentified
Yes.
andre ward
If Floyd was coming back.
It would be Kovalev who?
joe rogan
But Floyd would make him drop down to like 145 pounds or something crazy.
andre ward
As he should.
Listen, man.
joe rogan
What did he make him fight at the first time?
152 or something like that?
He came with some arbitrary number.
He made him come down a little bit.
It was below junior middleweight.
unidentified
I think it was like 52. Oscar De La Hoya did it to Floyd when they fought?
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
Because he was the A-side.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
He picked the gloves.
Cleto Reyes.
He picked the size of the ring.
He picked everything.
joe rogan
He got to.
andre ward
You're in a driver's seat.
joe rogan
Yes.
andre ward
So don't get mad because Floyd is doing it right now.
joe rogan
Right.
andre ward
Canelo, great fighter.
He's the A-side the majority of the time, unless you're fighting me.
So look, if you want this money, this is what we're going to do.
joe rogan
Isn't it right now the A-plus and the A-side, though?
It seems like Canelo's so huge, particularly the Mexican community.
andre ward
You mean if they were fighting again?
joe rogan
Yes.
If they fought right now, Floyd's still the A-plus, but Canelo's kind of the A or at least the A-minus.
andre ward
Yeah, maybe the A-minus.
But he'll always be, Floyd will always be the bigger star.
unidentified
Yes.
andre ward
Just based on what he's amassed.
unidentified
Yes.
andre ward
In his career and just who he is.
joe rogan
But when you look at what Canelo does, like when he knocked out Amir Khan, he's that, you know, he, that motherfucker could put some heat on some punches.
andre ward
He can punch, yeah.
joe rogan
He can punch.
andre ward
He can punch.
He can box too.
joe rogan
Do you think he can, he very, that's one thing he really did learn from fighting Floyd.
You know, how to not be there.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
And you saw that in the subsequent fights.
He learned from that fight.
That was a learning lesson.
And you could see in that fight, him realizing as the fight was going on, like, oh, fuck, I'm on another level of this video game, and I don't know how to beat this boss.
Floyd was just shutting him down and just doing beautiful things.
andre ward
Levels to the game, bro.
joe rogan
For people who appreciate boxing, that's one of the best fights to watch because you've got this murderous young upstart who's a devastating puncher, who's a big, strong kid, who's just tough as fuck.
He just embraces that Mexican style of fighting pressure, a lot of power, moving forward.
andre ward
Yeah.
I get it, but on the other hand, I don't get it.
How do you not see what's happening right now?
You have a young dude who can really punch, like we just said.
One punch can change it all.
Floyd's a little bit older.
He's not old, but he's older.
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
And he found a way to neutralize this young bull, this young lion, and then expose him.
He took away his strength and then exposed his weakness in a 12-round fashion.
Not one round, not five, not ten, but 12 rounds.
and left Canelo without answers.
That type of stuff, that's the way I was brought up.
Take away his greatest strength and expose his weakness, bro.
To me, I can watch 20 rounds like that.
joe rogan
I think that's because you are...
You're not just a great fighter, but you're also a deep fan of the sport.
andre ward
But it wasn't always like that.
joe rogan
When you were a kid, weren't you a big fan of it?
andre ward
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
So you understand when you're seeing a masterful performance, you understand that the general public really doesn't understand what's happening.
They don't see it.
andre ward
And that's our job as analysts and writers to educate the people.
You're going to have your diehards.
They're going to pick and choose what they like.
And generally speaking, the diehard is going to appreciate both styles and maybe have a favorite style.
But they're going to tune in for all of them.
The fight is over the casual.
And we in boxing, we kill ourselves.
We shoot ourselves in the foot because A, there's so much infighting.
And then you have people literally, like when a guy's fighting, a master's fighting, oh man, it's not worth watching.
I'll give you an example.
I'll bring it to the MMA world.
I'm a casual MMA fan.
Gilbert Melendez, I've worked out with him, Nick and Nate, and a couple other guys.
So I'll watch if one of those guys, some of those guys don't fight anymore, or Cormier, or maybe a John Jones.
I'll watch those types of guys.
I've never heard, maybe you can enlighten me, I've never heard an announcer rip a guy.
Even if a guy has no ground game, he's like, look, if so-and-so gets him on the ground, he's in trouble.
But if you stand up with this guy, you're giving me a reason to stay engaged.
We in boxing, a lot of times, and we have in past times, I think we've gotten a little bit better as of late.
This is terrible.
Listen, man, if I'm a casual fan, why am I going to stick around?
The fight is over the casual, not the hardcore fan.
So, We make, you know, a guy who can hit and not get hit, like it's some, you know, some super, like this is some special thing that, you know, you got to be really, really smart to understand.
It's really not.
It's the fundamentals of the game.
Like when you go into a gym for the first time, hey man, use your jab.
Hey man, you hit this guy, take a half step back so he can't return fire.
It's the fundamentals of the game at the highest level.
It's not that deep.
It's really not.
It's being presented to people like it's deep.
It's hit and not get hit.
And even in the whole hit and not get hit concept, you're going to get hit.
You're going to get hit.
You can't avoid contact all the time.
And then you got to be able to see, okay, this dude, he really doesn't like to get hit, but man, he just got hit with that good shot.
Man, he came back.
Man, he responded.
Wow, man, that dude does have heart.
If you're really looking at it, you're going to see a fight.
You're going to see boxing all in one fight, even against a guy who's a master.
You're going to see the whole gamut.
joe rogan
Well, in sports commentary...
There's a way that sports people write, and there's a way that sports people do commentary where it's very negative, and they like to call people bums.
There's an appeal to a certain kind of fan, and it's very profitable to be very negative and to talk about a certain way.
I made a very conscious decision when I started doing commentary to celebrate these fighters and to try to honor their hard work and what they're doing and to let people know how spectacular it is to me someone who loves the sport.
And I stay away from negative as much as possible unless it's absolutely negative to talk about.
To show, like, maybe someone would have to make some egregious error for me to say, don't ever do this.
When I talk about these guys, I want people to feel how I feel when I watch, if I watch Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson, who's one of my favorite of all time, and one of the things about Demetrius, to me, that's so spectacular, was that he was able to fight these amazing fighters and make them look like they had no business being in there with him.
His movement, his arsenal, His technique.
He could do anything.
He could take you down.
He could submit you.
He could kick you.
He could punch you.
His footwork, his movement was masterful.
But he had a hard time finding an audience.
I did my best.
I did my best to let people know, like, you are watching a special person.
You're watching a magician in there.
I mean, he's on the highest level I've ever seen in all my years of watching combat sports.
That's as high as it ever gets.
He's just 125 pounds.
People just couldn't get excited about it.
andre ward
But you did your part.
I tried.
You did your part.
And listen, there's times you've got to call fighters out for stuff.
I'm not opposed.
I'm not saying that you always have to be in alignment with a fighter.
If it's justified to call him out, if he put on a bad performance, look, bro, he didn't perform the way he was supposed to.
joe rogan
Timothy Bradley did that recently, and I think it was very justified.
Which one?
There was a Russian heavyweight, and he was on an undercard, and he was fighting this other dude, and the dude kind of laid down.
And Timothy Bradley was like, Listen, let's be honest.
He felt like he wanted a way out.
He wasn't really here to fight.
He was here to pad this guy's record.
I'm like, man, you know, that's exactly true.
andre ward
Yeah, you gotta remain credible, too.
joe rogan
That's one of the things that's important about you.
You are very credible, but also very positive and fair.
You're fair and your praise.
andre ward
I try to be, man.
I think also what's hurt, and I think we do a great job at ESPN with my crew.
joe rogan
Well, you guys have replaced the best, which used to be HBO. When HBO went away, man, I was like, I can't believe they're getting out of the boxing game.
andre ward
Yeah, I couldn't believe.
I'm still shocked.
joe rogan
I can't.
There was, what, 40 years or something?
andre ward
40. I grew up on...
joe rogan
Crazy.
andre ward
Yeah.
I used to look forward to it.
I grew up on that.
joe rogan
I would get it on my DVR every time.
Like, here we go.
Who's fighting?
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
That's one thing that we try to stress.
You know, our lead producer, Mike McQuaid, Joe Tessitore, Tim Bradley, Mark Kriegel, Bernardo Asuna, Christina Poncho.
Like, we are trying to be fair and objective, but yet truthful.
And everybody has a reverence for the guys that are getting in there.
And with all of that on the table, then we try to call it from that point.
What's happening in past times, and even a little bit still today, is personal agendas, personal issues spill over into the commentary or into the article that's being written.
If you don't like Floyd's lifestyle, I don't ascribe to Floyd's lifestyle, but that's not my business.
As a fighter?
We're going to call this the way we see it.
joe rogan
Yes.
andre ward
He is arguably one of the greatest of all time.
Now, wherever you have him on that list, that's your decision.
Subjective.
But people would take the lifestyle and things that was, oh, Floyd, no, man, you're letting that spill over into this, and now you're messing up this broadcast right now because Floyd's doing something and we're not acknowledging it, and it's clear that you don't like him.
That's the issue.
Keep those things separate.
Lifestyles, lifestyles.
You're going to talk about that and you're doing a background story or whatever, okay, address that.
But if we're talking in the ring, come on, man.
Genius.
joe rogan
Well, it's so interesting, too, to see a guy like you who is a former two-division world champion and an Olympic gold medalist who also transitions to be an excellent broadcaster because there's only been a few.
George Foreman, I love him to death, but he was odd when he was doing commentary.
andre ward
I like Big George, man.
joe rogan
I loved him, but he would say crazy shit.
He'd be like, what is he saying?
andre ward
I mean, he spoke his mind.
I think that's why people loved him, though.
joe rogan
He was so folksy.
And you knew.
He's obviously a fantastic heavyweight and the oldest guy ever to win the heavyweight title.
Roy was great as a commentator as well.
But where the fuck is Jim Lampley?
andre ward
I'm not sure what Jim's doing right now.
I'm surprised he's not out there, too.
I actually owe Jim a call.
I don't know.
joe rogan
I don't understand it.
He was so good.
He is, to me, the gold standard of play-by-play.
andre ward
Jim could do whatever he wants to do in life.
I did hear that he was teaching somewhere.
That's one thing he's doing.
joe rogan
Teaching?
andre ward
Teaching, yeah, at a college somewhere.
unidentified
Really?
andre ward
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow, what's he teaching?
andre ward
Broadcasting or something?
I'm sure.
joe rogan
Wow, how interesting.
andre ward
Jim could do whatever he wants to do, man.
That dude's intelligent.
He's smart.
He's paid his dues.
I think he's going to have his pick.
I'm not sure why we haven't seen him out there in the forefront, but I'm sure he's doing something.
joe rogan
Yeah, I miss him.
andre ward
Yeah, me too, man.
Like, that's one of my mentors.
Like, I started off with Al Bernstein at Showtime.
That was one of my first mentors.
Then, obviously, Lampley, Kellerman.
joe rogan
Yeah, where's Kellerman?
Because Kellerman's doing other things for ESPN, but he's not calling fights.
andre ward
He works with us.
He doesn't do every fight.
He'll do specific fights.
He'll be at the desk.
So he's not doing ringside.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
But what is that?
Why isn't he doing ringside?
andre ward
I'm not sure, man.
He's got a lot going on.
joe rogan
What the fuck?
andre ward
Yeah, he's got a lot going on.
But we have a great crew, man.
joe rogan
We have a great crew.
andre ward
Like Joe Tessitore, man.
Come on.
Legend in the game.
Legend in the game.
joe rogan
And you and Tim together are a fantastic combination.
andre ward
I appreciate that.
joe rogan
You know, it's amazing, man.
andre ward
And then we got our guy Mark Kriegel doing the personal stories and digging in guys' background.
Probably the best storyteller that I know that's out right now.
joe rogan
Well, it's so interesting, this ESPN Plus thing, and the Zone, and these streaming services that have come along that have sort of changed everything.
I mean, I don't worry about taping anything anymore.
I know I'm going to go home, and I'm either going to watch them on my phone if I'm out.
Like, I was at dinner with my wife, and I was sneaking fights in the bathroom.
I'm like, I've got to take a leak.
I've got to see what the fuck is going on.
I'm watching fights while I'm peeing.
It's like you can get it anywhere as long as you have internet service now.
I mean, that's so fantastic.
andre ward
I think that's where we're headed, exclusively.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think so too.
I mean, the UFC thinks so as well.
They made this deal with ESPN and a lot of people freaked out.
But for me, it's fucking great.
andre ward
I like it.
joe rogan
I mean, it's great.
My daughter had this event that she was going to, and as soon as it was over, I ran upstairs, and I pull out the phone, and I'm watching fights.
andre ward
Isn't that crazy?
joe rogan
It's crazy.
Instantaneously.
You don't have to go home.
Get them right there.
It's just a whole new world.
This world of, I want it right now.
andre ward
It's funny, though, because I hear people that have the old narrative of boxing.
Listen.
The reports of boxing's demise has been greatly exaggerated.
I've been hearing this stuff for so long.
It's just like for casual fans, it's just something cool to say.
No.
Why isn't boxing what it used to be?
Listen, the errors are their errors, but in terms of available content, available fights, I think we're at an all-time high right now.
joe rogan
Yes, I think so too.
andre ward
There are other people doing what they're doing.
God bless them.
But what we're doing at ESPN, man, I think it's unmatched.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think ESPN is fantastic right now, and I appreciate DAZN as well.
I mean, boxing is in an amazing place right now.
There's so many elite fighters, and there's a lot of hype on the sport right now.
There's people that are very excited about it, people that are casual fans.
Look, the Tyson Fury-Deontay Wilder fight did more for heavyweight boxing than I think any fight in recent memory.
When Deontay knocked him down in the 12th round, and Tyson Fury rose like Lazarus, and you're like, holy shit, this fight's still going on?
andre ward
He did!
joe rogan
And then after that, he won the round!
Like, this is insane!
He looks like he's getting...
It looked like his soul left his fucking body.
andre ward
I turned to my wife, I was like, that's a rat.
I turned back, I was like, what?
He got up within the tank!
Like, I'm trying to figure out if it was over, and they just had no...
Dude got up and won the rest of the round.
joe rogan
Dude, I was watching in my bed, right?
So I'm leaning back.
My feet are on the bed.
Deontay hits him.
I rocket towards the front of the bed.
I'm sitting down.
unidentified
I'm like, holy shit, he knocked him out in the 12th round!
He got up!
He got up!
joe rogan
And I'm sitting there, oh my god!
Oh my god!
My wife comes in the room, she's like, what the fuck are you doing?
I'm like, he got up!
andre ward
He got up!
joe rogan
She just walks away with her hands up.
andre ward
Fury saved his career.
joe rogan
He did.
andre ward
He put tens of millions of dollars.
That was the hundred million dollar getup.
joe rogan
It was the greatest get-up of all time.
andre ward
I don't know how much he got from ESPN. It's reported 100 million.
Some people say no, but that get-up was a very, very wealthy get-up.
joe rogan
And then how about the fact that he gives his entire purse away to charity?
I mean, who the fuck gives $10 million away to charity?
andre ward
I love to give, but I ain't giving the whole thing.
unidentified
No way!
joe rogan
No way!
After that fight, keep half at least.
andre ward
Keep something.
I got something for you, bro.
joe rogan
Give him a million.
Everybody would still love you.
andre ward
Yeah, I can't do that.
Not the whole thing.
joe rogan
He's an interesting cat, man.
And the will to get up.
I mean, Deontay Wilder is a terrifying puncher.
He's a terrifying puncher.
andre ward
But it's like I said earlier, those intangibles, they're in you, not on you.
And he showed what was in him in that moment.
joe rogan
Oh, it's 100% in him.
There's not a goddamn person in the world that can count out Tyson Fury after that.
I mean, that man is special.
The way he rose...
andre ward
I can't wait to see the rematch.
unidentified
Woo!
joe rogan
Is that gonna happen?
andre ward
It's gonna happen.
joe rogan
There's all this talk, but...
andre ward
It's reportedly, not official, but reportedly, February, Las Vegas.
joe rogan
But doesn't he have to...
Tyson has to get past...
What's his name?
unidentified
Otto...
andre ward
Valin.
joe rogan
He's got to get past that, dude.
That might not happen.
I mean, he could lose to that guy.
All weird shit happens.
andre ward
Luis Ortiz and Deontay Wilder.
joe rogan
Dude, Luis Ortiz put it on him in that first fight.
But Luis Ortiz is at least 150 years old.
At least.
He's got one of them Cuban birth certificates.
andre ward
He's been like 40 for like 10 years.
Like, bro, come on.
You keep saying you're 40 years old.
You're older than that, right?
No, no.
He's been telling us that he's been the same age for a long time.
But I'm hopeful.
I think both guys know what's on the table.
They're going to rise, man.
I think they're going to get it done.
No guarantees.
It's boxing.
Stuff happens.
But hopefully they take care of business and we get the rematch.
joe rogan
Well, I hope neither fighter looks past, particularly Deontay and Ortiz, because Ortiz hit him with some fucking bombs in that first fight and had him hurt, man.
andre ward
But he recovered.
joe rogan
He did recover.
He recovered and stopped him.
What a crazy record that guy's got.
He's like 39-0, right?
No, 39 knockouts, 40 wins, one draw.
Fuck!
39 knockouts!
No, there's two fights.
Yeah, one draw and one decision to...
Was it Brazil?
No, no, no.
Brazili just knocked out.
andre ward
Saverne.
joe rogan
Saverne, right.
And then he came back and knocked Saverne out in the rematch.
But that's...
andre ward
Made him pay for going the distance.
Like, you want to go the distance with me?
I got something for you.
joe rogan
Not only that, the way he did it.
Just defiant, hands down, winging punches that come from Jupiter.
andre ward
Bro, that was like my biggest fear.
Losing was one thing, but just getting knocked out ugly.
My biggest fear was getting hit with a shot I didn't see or even feel and then woke up like, what happened?
joe rogan
Did that ever happen to you as an amateur?
andre ward
No.
Never, thank God.
But that was my biggest feel.
You can't control that.
You can be in tip-top shape.
You can have all the mental stuff down, check all the boxes, and all of a sudden, boom.
If the shot with Kovalev landed a little bit left or right, who knows?
joe rogan
Right, right.
That's the crazy thing about getting punched, right?
andre ward
Because in this day and age, bro, they're merciless.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
The internet is merciless.
joe rogan
Oh, they're so merciless.
andre ward
Yeah.
It's crazy.
joe rogan
When I was a kid, I was a giant fan of Donald Curry.
And Donald Curry fought Milton McCrory.
Milton McCrory hit him with a left hook to the body and then a left hook on the chin.
And I was like, oh no.
Oh no, Mike McCallum, I'm sorry.
He knocked out Milton McCrory with a left hook.
But Mike McCown, the body snatcher, hit him with a left hook to the body and then one up top, and the one up top starched him.
And he went flat on his back.
I was like, no!
And I remember I couldn't take it.
I put my shoes on and I went running.
I couldn't take it.
And I decided at that point, as I was running down the street, I was like, I am never going to get emotionally attached to a fighter again.
I'm never going to put all my eggs in one basket.
It's too hard.
Because I lost too.
It wasn't just I saw who I'm a fan of.
I'm a fan of Mike McCown.
He was an amazing fighter.
It wasn't just that.
It was just that it hurt me.
andre ward
That's how I felt when Roy lost for the first time.
I was in New Jersey.
I was still an amateur.
It's a USA versus Ireland duel.
I wasn't fighting in it, but I was just out there supporting the team.
We couldn't get the fight.
Then all of a sudden, people started blowing me up because they knew Roy was my dude.
You heard what happened?
What do you mean?
Roy got knocked out.
I ain't getting knocked out, mister.
I'm trying to look.
Roy got knocked out.
Bro, I was done.
Like, I just dragged.
I went to my room, bro.
Put the covers over my head and went to sleep.
And I woke up and I just felt like I lost.
Like, that was so painful.
Like, that's my guy.
That's Roy Jones.
He's Superman.
He don't get knocked out.
He got knocked out.
joe rogan
He was in a Nas song.
The new Mike Tyson's Roy Jones.
I mean, when he was in his prime, people don't understand when you would watch him, the way he would just dice guys up.
And do it so unorthodox that leaping left hook was crazy.
andre ward
But he had his swag, though.
And it wasn't just the average, like, oh, I'm talking tough, I believe in myself.
He danced to the ring, man.
He came in the ring in like a tuxedo robe.
I wanted the little Roy Jones ducktail he had back there, bro.
I wanted to do what Roy did.
I remember I wrote him a letter.
And Brad Jacobs, who's the COO of Top Ranked Boxing right now, or the CFO, excuse me, he was over Roy's company, Square Ring, at the time.
And I remember Brad wrote me back and was like, hey, thanks for writing Roy.
Roy's getting ready for Vinny Pazienza.
Next time you're in Vegas, he wants to meet you.
And the next time ended up being John Ruiz.
That was the next time Roy fought in Vegas.
But, like, I've been rocking with Roy for a long time.
joe rogan
When he fought Pazienza, that was, I believe, the only time a fighter never scored a single punch in a round.
Pazienza literally couldn't hit him.
andre ward
But the way he did it again, like, he had Pazienza going, he's looking at the ref like, hey man, stop the fight.
joe rogan
Yep.
andre ward
Okay, he shrugged like this and boom, boom, hit him with like three uppercuts, fight over.
I'm like, who does that?
joe rogan
Nobody.
Nobody did it like Roy did it.
It's hard for people to look back now because it's not happening while it's happening.
andre ward
Yep.
joe rogan
But when it was happening back then, you would just go, God!
He played a full game of basketball the day of a fight.
andre ward
Who does that?
joe rogan
Nobody does that.
andre ward
Against Eric Lucas on HBO. Yeah.
joe rogan
It's crazy.
andre ward
Who does that?
joe rogan
Nobody.
He did amazing shit, man.
When he kept fighting, did that cement in your idea that that was never going to happen to you?
andre ward
And I hate that he was kind of...
He was one of the ones.
I'm not going to say he was the one because there was a lot of that stuff going on in boxing.
But when I seen that, I was like, dude, I can't, man.
joe rogan
The Glenn Johnson fight was hard.
andre ward
Yeah, I was there.
joe rogan
The Glenn Johnson fight was hard because he was stiff.
He was stiff.
And that was right after the Tarver fight.
andre ward
He came out with my gold medal on him.
I had just got back from Greece.
And Roy had my medal on.
He's rapping to the ring.
He's got my medal on.
And I'm sitting probably in the third row or something like that.
And he got starched.
And these two boys, they're grown now, but they were young.
And they're trying to get over the little barrier.
They're trying to get in the ring.
And I remember a couple hours after that, I'm walking around downtown.
And I saw one of Roy's guys.
And he was like, hey, Drake, come here.
And Roy was in the back of a Rolls Royce.
And it was just him.
And it was all dark and he had his head down.
And, you know, he opened the door and Roy kind of looked up.
I was like, man, what's up, Roy?
He was like, what's up, baby?
I said, man, I love you, man.
I love you.
That's all I could tell him.
I said, I love you.
I dapped him up, gave him a hug, and then that was it.
But I'll never forget that moment.
Never forget that.
And just for whatever reason, he just wasn't able to recover, man.
And I think, you know, again, the boo birds.
You got the people that, all right, I knew Roy couldn't take a punch.
Listen, bro, you don't get as far as he got not being able to take a punch.
But when you strip off 25 pounds of muscle abruptly, it shocks you.
You can't take a punch like you used to.
joe rogan
Your body's weak.
You're weak.
And your whole neuromuscular system.
andre ward
It's all messed up.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Excuse me.
No, we see it in fights all the time where fighters lose too much weight.
It's terrifying to see that.
But to see Roy, the Tarver fight was hard to watch, but Tarver's a great fighter.
He caught him, he clipped him, he hurt him, he knocked him down.
They stopped the fight, he couldn't get up.
But the Glenn Johnson fight was much more terrifying to me because he banged his head off the ground when he went out, and he went out stiff.
One leg was up in the air.
Those ones where a guy looks like he's getting electrocuted when they go out, those are the scary ones.
andre ward
And Tarver, you know, taking nothing from Glenn Johnson, he was a total overachiever.
joe rogan
Yes.
andre ward
You know, lunch pill type guy, blue collar fighter.
But you didn't expect him to do that.
joe rogan
Right.
andre ward
And a lot of people didn't expect Tarver to do it either, but like, you know, Olympian, you know, like, you can see the skill set.
Yeah.
Big left-handed guy, so it's not like out of the question that something like that can happen, but nobody saw that coming with Glenn Johnson.
joe rogan
No.
Do you think that he just hadn't recovered really truly from the Tarver knockout?
andre ward
I think my gut, I think it was that, A, and then B, I don't think he took Glenn serious.
I think he looked at it like, you know, it was cool.
I'm going to get back with this guy and I'm going to get back to the top.
I just don't think he took him serious.
And Glenn, that was his Super Bowl.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
He was a road warrior.
That's his nickname.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
So he had to get it the hard way.
So I got Roy Jones coming off a knockout to Target.
Let's go.
He came in tipped off shape.
And I just wish Roy would have took it serious.
joe rogan
Yeah, that made Glenn Johnson's career.
andre ward
Literally.
joe rogan
Literally.
Tarver went on to fight, I mean, all the way up to heavyweight, right?
I mean, I think he was fighting fairly recently, wasn't he?
andre ward
He's got a fight coming up.
Him and his son are going to fight on the same car, Tarver Jr. I think in Florida.
I don't know the details, but yeah.
But he hasn't fought in a couple years.
I think he's been trying to get a fight.
You know, you'll see Tarver post stuff like, yo, I'm ready.
And I don't know why he hasn't been able to get a chance.
I don't know.
But once I got over the Roy stuff, and I'll never fully get over it, but like...
I've forgiven Tarver for it.
It took a minute, but I got an immense amount of respect for Tarver.
Respect him.
He had to get it the hard way, too.
He's a guy that didn't really get a lot of respect and love, but did so much for the sport and in the sport.
So I got a soft spot for Tarver because I know, again, he didn't get his just due.
He pressed his way, man.
He beat a lot of good guys.
joe rogan
I don't think he got his just due after he knocked Roy out.
I feel like there was a lot of people that were second-guessing it.
They were saying, well, it's just evidence of Roy's demise.
I'm like, wait a minute.
Tarver said, at the fucking touch of gloves, got any excuses tonight, Roy?
And then knocks him out.
I mean, if that doesn't get people's respect, I mean, he did what he was supposed to do.
andre ward
Even more than that, like to have the guts to chase Roy down.
He literally chased him down.
Like when Roy fought Clinton Woods in Portland, Tarva was at that press conference.
And every fight leading up to the Ruiz fight, Tarva was at that press conference.
He'd have his phone up with his manager on the phone so they could hear what Roy's saying.
Like that takes a lot of guts, bro.
To chase the best fighter in the world that seems invincible and to say, look, give me a shot.
Like, because if you lose, that's it for you, bro.
joe rogan
Yeah.
andre ward
You know, he did it, believed in himself.
The first fight was close.
And the second fight, he said what he said in the beginning.
Like, what kind of guts does that take to be able to, like, for the whole world?
Can you, you got any excuses tonight?
And even before the knockout, Buddy McGirt said something about respect.
He said, man, you're showing him too much respect, baby.
He said, don't use that word in this corner.
He was locked in.
Wow.
He was locked in and then went out and knocked Roy out.
So yeah, it had something to do with that, but that's not Tarver's fault.
joe rogan
Don't use that word in this corner.
andre ward
Never heard nothing like that before.
joe rogan
Wow.
When you look at the game right now, who do you think, who's exciting to you?
Obviously, there's Terrence Crawford and Lomachenko, but is there anybody that really stands out for you?
andre ward
My little brother Shakur Stevenson.
Co-manage him along with James Prince and Josh Dubin.
Silver medalist.
He's getting ready to fight his first title fight coming up at Featherweight.
He stays focused, which I believe he will.
He's going to be on top for a long time.
Teofimo Lopez.
He's a young up-and-coming guy.
He's getting ready to fight, reportedly, Richard Comey sometime in December, possibly.
He's a young guy.
Obviously, Terrence, Errol Spence.
joe rogan
They have to fight, right?
andre ward
It's tough, man.
joe rogan
It is tough, but for a fan?
andre ward
Listen, I want to see it.
But if you're on his side, I see what they're doing.
And honestly...
joe rogan
What are they doing?
andre ward
You can't even be mad at it.
Well, Al Heyman and those guys over there, they got all the welterweights.
So, if you don't, if you're not, you know, if you don't really like the other side, or if you feel some type of way about ESPN and top rank, and you know that Terrence is wanting this fight, why not make him wait a year or two and let your guy, Errol Spence, try to clean out the whole welterweight division?
Now, he has Sean Porter coming up, and that's not going to be an easy fight for either guy, and I respect it and got a lot of love for both.
But they're trying to squeeze him out.
So, they're looking at us like, yeah, I hear you.
You want that fight, but we got bigger plans.
I'm going to let my guy amass a bigger following.
He's got a big following in Dallas, in Jerry's world.
Jerry Jones is behind Errol Spence.
So that's what they're doing right now.
And as a fan, I don't like it.
But as a businessman, I get it.
I understand what they're doing.
But from what you're saying, to your point, my only thing with that...
And I've told both guys this, like, you can't say that you're the best.
And you may feel like you're the best.
You may tell yourself you're the best, but you really don't know if you're the best until you fight the best.
And that's my only thing with boxing as it stands today.
Like, social media, man.
Social media tells a lot of lies.
Like, it's some young guys coming up.
I'm not going to name any names.
But it's some young guys coming up who have a lot of potential.
Could possibly be the guy.
But they're not fighting anybody.
But yet they'll go to social.
Yeah, I'm the man.
I'm next.
Floyd's gone.
I'm next.
And you get social.
Yeah, you're right, man.
You're next.
Come on, man.
It's something called box wreck or fight facts.
Punch in their name.
You go to the search.
Punch in first.
Last name.
And you got to be specific with BoxRec.
Because if you misspell a letter in the name, it won't pop up.
So get the name right.
First and last.
And then all of a sudden, the record pops up.
First fight to whatever their last fight was.
And then you can cross-reference the guys they beat.
Oh, this dude he beat was 20-0.
Click on that dude's name.
Ah, this dude ain't fought nobody.
So his 20-0 really ain't a real 20-0, and you're hanging your hat on the fact that you beat that guy.
It's a lot of that in the game, and guys aren't willing to test themselves.
Now listen, it's a place for building.
It's a place for getting seasoning.
I'm not a fan of rushing.
That's not what I'm saying.
But at a certain point in time, If you're going to say that you're the best and that you're the next Floyd and that you...
Regardless of what weight class you may be, you got to test yourself against the best because guess what?
You don't even know how good you are.
You won't know until you face another guy.
Like I said this the other day when I was in the UK. I said everybody wants to be a lion when there's no lions around.
You can be a lion in the company of hyenas.
But when you're facing another lion, now we're going to see what you're really working with.
Yeah.
Everybody's a soldier when there's no wars going on.
But when a war happens, now we're going to see what you're made of.
I would just like to see at a certain point in time, I get making money, I get the political stuff that's going on, but at some point in time, if your pupil is going to say that they're the best, you've got to face the best.
So we can really see who's who.
Now, if you're not about that life, and you're like, dude, I'm just trying to make as much money for the least amount of risk, I respect it, and at least you made your intentions clear.
But you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
You can't say you're the best, but not fight the best.
You gotta face the best at some point in time.
joe rogan
I like what boxing does in that the managers dictate who the fighters fight and that they do build their fighters up correctly.
And one of the things that bothers me about MMA is I think there's some really good young fighters who get ruined because they get thrown to the wolves too quickly and they wind up getting their confidence shattered, they get knocked out maybe when they shouldn't be.
They're fighting a caliber of fighter they're not prepared for.
For every one fighter like that, you know, there's always the arguments of a guy like Jon Jones, youngest ever light heavyweight champion, youngest ever UFC champion.
Fights a legend, Mauricio Shogun, who when he was 22 or 23, I think he was 23 years old, opens up with a flying knee, hits him in the face, beats the fuck out of him, and takes the title.
For every Jon Jones, there's a guy who's coming up that maybe could have been a world champion, but didn't get managed correctly, and the UFC doesn't give you any options.
The UFC says, hey, you want to fight Kamaru Usman?
Okay, here's your fight.
This is it.
andre ward
It's a trade-off, right?
So the fans get the big fights, but in the wake of how many careers?
joe rogan
Yes, that's the trade-off.
The fans get the big fights.
But I don't think...
We necessarily see the highest caliber of fighter fight, the highest caliber of fighter with the best case scenario at all times.
Do you know what I'm saying?
I don't think we get to see the most out of some of these guys.
Because I think that if they were managed, if there was a ton of different promoters around, and you weren't locked in any specific sort of an organization like the UFC has, I think you could see more managers saying, Hey man, you're not ready for Robbie Lawler.
Hey man, you're not ready for this guy.
We're going to take this fight on a regional level.
We're going to build you up.
We're going to get you to 15, 16-0.
Then we're going to start challenging some top 10 contenders and cement your place.
But this way...
You'll have seen all the looks.
You'll have seen a great wrestler.
You'll have seen a great striker.
You fought a Muay Thai champion.
You fought a jiu-jitsu guy.
You know how to handle all these different scenarios.
And in MMA, that is part of the problem is that it's not just your hands.
There's so many different scenarios that you have to deal with.
andre ward
It's like the J.G. Wentworth commercial.
I need my money now.
That's what it is.
And Tony White's like, bro, I need to get paid now.
Right now, you hot.
You up and coming.
I can't find a better matchup.
Let's make it happen.
joe rogan
The UFC will throw a guy on his UFC debut against a guy who's a world-class contender.
And you'll watch him get lit up like a Christmas tree.
andre ward
And I'm not a fan of that, man.
I'm a fan of, again, seasoning, make sure you're ready.
But it's like in boxing, man.
And not everybody.
Like, if you look at the light heavyweight division, it's one of the hottest and the most willing divisions for guys to face each other.
joe rogan
Also one of the most rushing.
andre ward
Yeah, it is.
joe rogan
That's crazy how rushing that division is.
andre ward
They spit them out.
Woo!
They spit them out.
But if you look at some of these other divisions, it's like, man, dude, how many posts can you have where you're saying that you're the best, but yet you're refusing to fight the best?
joe rogan
But there is a thing about social media, though, where these guys can self-promote in a way that's never really been available before.
andre ward
It's all good, but just don't expect everybody to buy it.
joe rogan
Right.
Well, as a champion, you value that title the best.
And also as a guy who's stoic.
andre ward
If a guy doesn't care about it...
Then we're not going to bother you.
But when you bring that light on yourself, now we want to have you back up what you're saying.
joe rogan
Well, that's one of the reasons why the UFC takes this strategy.
They give a young fighter a fight.
You think you're a beast?
Okay, we're going to throw you into the beasts.
You might have four or five professional fights.
And occasionally, guys get through and you realize, wow, this guy truly is special.
That's the philosophy of the UFC, is put together the best fights all the time.
Like every card, they want murderers fighting murderers.
And I see that from a promotional perspective, it's brilliant.
And from a fan perspective, it's brilliant.
But from a person who values a fighter's development, I would go, ooh, if I was a manager, I'd go, don't take that fight.
Don't take that fight.
Not yet.
andre ward
It's like Tyson Fury getting ready to fight Otto Valin.
Another tune-up fight, right?
People are like, oh, well, listen.
Wileen is a good fighter.
We'll see how good he is.
But you also have to look at Tyson Fury and everything he came off of.
Drugging and boozing and just on the brink of disaster.
Personal disaster.
Give him a couple fights to get the rest off.
So when he does face Wilder, it's an even better fight.
Why is Wilder fighting Luis Ortiz?
Listen, give it some time.
So it's not that we're trying to sell these fights individually, but we're selling the package deal.
You support these guys?
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
You want to see the rematch?
unidentified
Yeah.
andre ward
We're going to get a better fight if you let them go through the maturation process.
Wilder's trying to stall and wait for Tyson Fury to get what he needs to get out of the way.
Tyson's trying to get a little bit more rust off so it could be a better fight than it was the first time.
And sometimes fans don't see that.
And like you said, to your point, We as broadcasters and writers, we have to educate the people a little bit.
They still may not like it, but at least we have to present the facts and say, this is why we're seeing this right now.
joe rogan
You do a fantastic job of that.
andre ward
I try, man.
joe rogan
You really do.
andre ward
I try.
I try.
You know, I'm trying to, you know.
Just continue to keep on keeping on, man.
But again, I got a great team.
I had a great team at HBO. Again, still can't believe they're not in the business.
And I still keep in contact with a lot of those guys.
And then what we have at ESPN, man, is just different, man.
Our lead producer, like I said, Mike McQuaid.
In past times, I would just show up to the site location on a Thursday night.
Fighter meetings, production meeting on Friday.
Saturday is the fight.
I go home Sunday.
Now, we have a production call the week of a fight on Tuesday, probably an hour long.
We're constantly texting and sending emails of information.
Either Joe Tess is challenging us in this area, or Tim's sending an article, or I'm sending something, or Bernardo's sending something, or Mark Crick.
It's just on another level right now.
And I think that's why people get the production that they're getting.
joe rogan
No, you can tell.
You can tell.
You can tell in the actual fight itself while you guys are doing the commentary that you guys are buttoned down and locked up.
I mean, it's all your...
T's are crossed and your I's are dotted.
andre ward
It's a performance business, baby.
joe rogan
Yes, it is.
No, you're approaching that the same way you approached your fight career.
andre ward
I don't know any other way.
I don't know any other way.
joe rogan
When you're doing it, though...
I mean, you're 20...
How many months out of your last fight?
When you're doing it, though, there's gotta be an itch sometimes.
There's gotta be an itch.
andre ward
It's not gonna go away.
joe rogan
How do you just accept the fact that you have that itch?
Is there a part of you that thinks there's a 10% chance you might make a comeback?
Do you have a number in your head?
andre ward
Yeah, it's whatever percent it is.
And then I wake up and I start hearing a pop, pop, boom, boom, my knees in my back.
And I'm like, ah, bro, that's why I retired.
That's why.
So that discourages me quick, man.
joe rogan
Do you still exercise?
andre ward
Yeah, I got to stay fit.
joe rogan
Do you hit the bag?
andre ward
I haven't done a boxing thing, but I think I'm going to do it.
It's weird.
Part of me has done it for my whole life, so I'm kind of burnt out.
And then the other part of me is like, dude, I don't want to miss it.
I want to do something else.
So I do a lot of spinning, spinning class.
joe rogan
You take spin classes?
andre ward
I take spin classes, but then I also have a Peloton at my house.
I have the Peloton treadmill and the Peloton spinning bike.
Versaclimber.
joe rogan
I love that thing.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
andre ward
So I do a lot of alternative stuff, but I think I'm going to get back in it because it's a great way to just keep the weight off.
And after two years, I think I'm ready to start hitting the bag again, man.
joe rogan
Mike Tyson says he can't.
He said he doesn't want to.
He says if he starts hitting the pads again and hitting the bag again, well, even at 50, he says his ego starts firing up again and he starts thinking about it.
andre ward
I feel him.
Nazeem Richardson, legendary trainer out of Philly.
He put it to me like this, like last year sometime.
He said, somebody asked him, like, man, you think?
Like, we interviewed him for my doc.
And, um...
My boy Deontay, who's the director, he said, listen, do you think Dre's ever going to come back?
He said, you know what?
He said, I don't think so.
He said, you got to realize Andre hasn't lost in a long time.
He said, as soon as he starts looking at retirement like an opponent, I think he's going to be just fine.
And I never looked at it like that before.
But then when I finally understood what he was saying, it's like...
That's what I'm fighting against right now.
So just like a regular opponent, I studied retirement, right?
Like I said earlier, the highs and the lows, the good, the bad stories.
Just like when I'm fighting a fight, I got my supporters and I got my detractors.
I got people saying, man, hey man, stay going, bro.
Way to get out on top.
I miss you, but man, hey man, I'm happy you did it like that.
Then I got people saying, oh, he's coming back.
All fighters come back.
Just like I was in a real fight, I wanted to win that battle, right?
This is a battle that I want to win too.
So I'm looking at retirement like an opponent right now.
And my last, you know, I don't know how many years I've been doing pretty good against opponents, so I like my chances.
joe rogan
I like your chances too, and I think you're very important for the sport.
I think you're an important, shining example of what's possible.
What's possible both with your accomplishments and also what's possible with walking away with all your marbles intact, man.
So thank you for everything, brother.
Thank you for doing this.
I really appreciate it.
andre ward
I'll go, bro.
Thank you, man.
joe rogan
Bye, everybody.
unidentified
It was great, man.
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