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Sept. 27, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
26:55
INTEL Roundtable : w/ Johnson & McGovern : Weekly Recap 26-Sept.
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Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom.
Today is Friday, September 26, 2025, the end of the day, the end of the week, our favorite time together with you and with my two colleagues and collaborators that do uh double double duty every week, Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson.
Ray, Larry, welcome here.
Thank you for accommodating my schedule.
Thank you for joining us for the intelligence community roundtable, which has proven to be a very popular production for our judging freedom office.
Larry, is Ukraine now Europe's war?
Oh, yeah.
Uh Trump.
I don't know if Trump just was a deliberate strategy or if he stumbled into it.
But I think they decided to take uh General Kellogg's uh sunny optimistic comments about hey, Ukraine's winning, Russia's losing, Russia's economy is crumbling.
And Trump basically says, well, if that's the case, why do we need to give him anything since they're doing so well since they're winning?
I mean, hey, we're happy to sell some weapons to NATO and NATO can give them to Ukraine, but all right.
Hey, you guys take care of it since everything's so good.
Are you being a little sarcastic or serious?
Serious.
I mean, I I mean that that was the essence of what he did.
Because he embraced the positive spin.
And then what gave it away was uh that same day, the France, the the Germans, the Brits, and Ukraine, they brought up this resolution at the UN Security Council that was going to really condemn and punish Russia.
And what did the United States do?
They said we'll take a pass.
Oh, that we're not interested.
Uh we abstain.
So instead of the only two actions, so we you know, I said judge judge Trump on this by what he does, not what he says.
And what he did was hey, hey, if uh Europe wants to buy weapons from us, basically weapons we can't make, we'll be happy to sell them to them.
And no, we're not going to condemn Russia and create a diplomatic incident over it.
All right.
Uh let me let me finish one other point.
Sure.
Dmitryov and Ushikov, uh, Dormitiev and Ushikov, both have been asked about that, and they're still upbeat.
So there's clearly comments and conversations going on behind the scenes that the Russians still confident that uh they're not going to get uh you know bent over the log by the United States.
Ray, your thoughts on this and add to your thoughts what the CIA is probably still doing in Ukraine, whether Trump's turning this into Europe's war or not.
Well, I think Larry is completely right.
Um after I talked with you on Monday and told you about Lavrov's very upbeat comments preparatory to his arrival at the UN.
We had a major initiative from Poutine himself to extend the new START treaty for a year.
As long as the U.S. would do the same.
That's so big.
That's really big.
So here's again the Russians are distinguishing between what they give most priority to, and that is uh improving relations with the United States and Ukraine, which is sort of secondary and sometimes not even mentioned in these bilateral discussions.
So that gives me some some hope that if there are any sensible people uh advising Trump, and I think there are at least one, his name is Whitkoff, uh, that they won't turn this down.
That's obvious it's a winner for All sides to extend that very basic treaty for a year.
Well, they work out the modalities how to how to improve it, how to adapt it to new circumstances.
This is a biggie.
There's nothing more important than arms control.
It was, according to all reports now, raised in um anchorage.
And uh the Russians apparently have mentioned it, but it didn't get discussed very much.
So I'm hopeful that the new contacts that are going on now post-Biden regime uh are uh kind of coming together and making sure that the US and the and the Russians can can negotiate on bilateral matters irrespective of Ukraine.
Let's say Trump dials back U.S. involvement.
Does the CIA continue to show the Ukrainians where the Russian targets are?
Ray?
Well, you know, that's really up to what presidential guidance uh is given.
Now if uh General Kellogg is in the loop of giving guidance, and my God, uh I uh shuddered it at the thought.
Well, you know, the guidance will continue.
I think by and by uh the guidance will say, all right, uh you Europeans, you can take over from here.
You have your own advanced missiles.
We're out of here.
And I think that US aid will stop, U.S. military aid.
And I think that the uh intelligence cooperation will taper off and then stop.
May take a couple more months for that to happen.
Larry, before you jump in and Chris, just to raise Larry's blood pressure a little bit.
That's what we have uh Senator Graham crowing over this, Chris.
Uh Trump 2028.
I hope this never ends.
When he asks, what should you do if a Russian jet flies into your country?
Shoot it down.
He's tried to go out of his way to get uh Putin to the table.
Uh, we don't want to humiliate Russia, we just want to end the war.
And to our friends in Russia, here's what Trump did today.
He told uh NATO, I'll sell you all the weapons you want.
You can provide them to Ukraine, and as to Ukraine, you can use them any way you want.
So to the Russian military, you're gonna be up against the high-end American weapons that will be sold to NATO for the benefit of Ukraine, and this war is uh coming to your backyard here with no limitations like Biden.
Well, this is really he's out of his mind again, Larry.
This this is this is the second part of Trump's statement, and you can comment on that, which to me is inconceivable that Ukraine could win the Donbass and Crimea back.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, in fact, I mean that it was I think it was classic sarcastic trolling by by Trump because he's he's taken, okay.
You guys are telling me that uh Russia's on the ropes.
In fact, go ahead.
Listen, you you could take back all of all of the land that they've captured in the Donboss and go ahead, roll on into uh Moscow.
And now what happens?
Because uh you turn around and say, okay, where are the weapons that we're gonna sell?
Well, we're having trouble making them.
You know, we we can't produce them in the quantities we want because we can't really give you any patriots, for example, patriot missiles, it's gonna be about two years.
So, yeah, here's Lindsey Graham uh chortling over, boy, we can we can sell them anything and do anything that they want, except let's look at we've got a three-year track record where uh the only weapon system we have denied the Ukrainians is like a tomahawk cruise missile which can carry a nuclear warhead.
Now, as far as putting it all on Europe, yeah, go ahead.
Europe, if you want to start shooting down Russian aircraft, hey, be my guest.
And the Europeans are like looking at each other, said you go first, now you go first.
Uh, because you've you've had the query put to both Lavrov and the uh Russian ambassador to France yesterday, and each of them came back with one word.
They were asked if if Europe shoots down a Russian, if any of the European countries shoot down a Russian uh jet, what will Russia's reaction be?
They both said war.
Well, while this is happening, uh Ray McGovern, uh, according to the front page of today's Financial Times, which is pretty reliable on these things, German Chancellor Merz has proposed uh that uh the German government seize the Russian uh monies on deposit in uh German banks.
Now it's a total of 350 billion, apparently about 160 billion of it is in Russian banks, and that it be uh given to Ukraine to help fight Russia.
What will the Kremlin's reaction be to this kind of theft?
Well, um, as I think I mentioned before, uh Germany has displaced the United States as the main enemy of Russia.
In other words, uh, for ever since World War II, and we we started cold war up until four months ago.
The polls all showed that the glavnivrag, that is the main enemy of the of Russia was the United States, and vice versa.
Now all of a sudden the new polls show that the main enemy, the glavnivrak, is Germany.
Now, the Russians uh have a history with Germany, right?
And when they have a fellow like Mautz saying, Oh, we're gonna make uh we're gonna make our army the Bundeswehr uh the most powerful uh army in Europe once again.
Once again, oh my god, last time around, 27 million Soviet citizens perish for this great German army.
So there's a there's a uh uh there's a historic thing where the Russians are really uh trying to cope with this mouse.
They think he's a little bit daft.
They don't know whether he just is stupid or whether he's trying to sell more weapons after all, he comes from one of the major finance financiers of weapons sales or weapons development.
So uh Germany is in a tough position now, and the Russians aren't gonna give them much latitude if they do something stupid.
Uh Larry, would would the Russian response be military if the German government seizes 162 billion dollars?
No, no, I I think uh Putin's not crazy.
He's been extremely well, he is under he is under uh growing political pressure at home to take a tougher stand.
Yes.
Uh, you know, so he is getting he's getting pressure saying that the they're almost accusing him of being too soft, too too compliant.
But uh what they will take economic steps.
I mean, look, they've not had control of that money for three and a half years, and has it you know ravaged the Russian economy?
No, no, the Russian economy is doing fine.
Uh it's it's it's growing only at 1.8 percent this year because of anti-inflation measures that Nabulina, the central banker to uh put in place, but she did so with the full support of uh Putin, and inflation has dropped down dramatically.
But it it's the principle of the thing that can you trust the West to honor its so-called international-based rules order.
No, and the question yeah, is absolutely not, which is why you've seen Russia and China together move in in the direction of setting up this alternative.
I would note that uh China, China's system for handling uh clearance payments, doing doing sort of what SWIFT used to do.
Yeah, it's been expanding rapidly, it's being used by more countries in the global south, and we've seen this year so far that the number of Swift transactions have dropped by 15 percent.
All right, we're going to switch gears to the Israelis, but before we do, uh uh Chris is going to play truly one of the weirdest uh things that happened at the uh UN this week.
I won't even tell you who's in it.
One of these people has his face hidden for the first minute or so.
That's engineered by producer Chris.
The other person is internationally well known, but is totally off as rocker.
Chris cut number 24.
As you know, Mr. President, I spent over 37 Years in the U.S. Army, uh, and I was a soldier, not a diplomat.
So I hope you'll forgive me if I speak with the directness of the old soldier that I am as I get the first question out of the way.
Because the fact is that we were on different sides uh when I was commanding the surge in Iraq.
Uh, you were, of course, uh detained by U.S. forces for some five years, including again uh when I was the four star there, and here you are now as the president of Syria.
I just want you to tell you really, on behalf of all the people who are here, uh, that this conversation has truly filled me with enormous hope.
Uh, it has been very, very heartening and illuminating.
Um, your vision is is powerful and clear.
Uh, your demeanor itself is is very impressive as well.
Um, how are you holding up under all this pressure?
Uh are you getting enough sleep at night?
Uh again, I've been there.
Uh, and it is so very, very hard.
And your many fans, and I am one of them.
Uh, we do have worries.
Ray, emphasis on the first syllable of the word sycophant.
Oh my god, you know.
Uh, I think I'm gonna be thinking I'm gonna throw up your judge, but I'll suppress it here.
Um, this is the guy, this is the guy that was chopping heads just a couple of years ago on RBF.
This is the guy that the CIA and the U.S. Army was funding, and and these were used to be terrorists.
Now, well, I guess they became uh gentle.
What was the word?
Uh respectable terrorists, and then all of a sudden now they're running Syria.
My God, you know, has he no shame, this Petraeus?
Is the U.S. audience for this kind of dribble so ill-informed that we'll say, oh, way to go, Dave?
You know, the so you you feel a real affinity to this head chopper.
Well, wow, that's wonderful.
That's a terrific uh reinstitution of this trust.
My God.
So, you know, uh, I just don't know how you treat a guy like Jolani, but you don't unless you're General Petraeus, and you need to mention that you were a four-star once when I was a four-star, he was a terrorist.
Now he's a good guy.
He was a moderate terrorist, and aren't we happy to have him right here with us?
Jerry and Larry, wasn't this dis uh the disgusting uh display by the person who led the surge in Afghanistan?
I I was waiting waiting for him to break out a bottle of uh baby oil and start rubbing it on Jelani's back, you know, just give him a full body massage.
We got everything but that.
I mean, good God, you know, who could say at least they were consenting adults and what they were engaged in there.
But I mean, the it's not like Jelani uh was just had some you know shaky beliefs.
He oversaw and gave orders to kill Christians, to kill Shi Muslims, to kill Alawits, to murder them, men, women, children.
He was he was he was not some freedom fighter like you know, or somebody trying to defend his home from invading U.S. troops.
You know, I could understand that.
No, this guy was actively out carrying out a religious war.
Now, at what point was he cultivated and recruited by the United States?
I don't know, but just underscores further the hypocrisy when we hear these clowns talk about the terrorism of Hamas and the terrorism of Hezbollah, they haven't even begun to commit.
In fact, Jelani committed more terrorist acts in two years.
His his crew with Hayatar Al-Sham than were attributed to Hamas in 25 years.
You know, according to Max Blumenthal, he's still doing it.
The West just isn't reporting it.
Yes.
According to Max, he is still slaughtering uh Druze, Alawites, and Christians in Syria.
Right.
Yeah.
I don't know how you slaughter people in a moderate way, you know.
Uh yeah.
Maybe maybe Jolani has mastered that craft.
He wears a Brooks Brothers uh suit switching gears.
Uh Ray, do you think that the near now near universal uh acceptance of the Palestinian state will have any geopolitical significance?
I want to say yes, Judge, but I'm not sure.
A lot will depend on whether the Colombian president's uh initiative to have a uniting for peace uh resolution passed by the General Assembly happens.
Now it's cheap talk for people like Stomer in Britain and the other situation, oh yeah, well, finally we think you know we ought to recognize the Palestinian state.
It doesn't mean uh anything at all if they're not willing to follow that up with an embargo on aid with uh a cut in economic relations with with withdrawing ambassadors with with actually tactile, actually tangible things.
So let's see.
I I still hope that there's enough power behind the Pedro's Petro is his name, the Colombian uh president who's made the initiative now.
And I just hope they're enough yeah, especially since today Netanyahu today was incredible, and one might have predicted it, but when you saw all those people, you know, uh 90 percent of the people it seemed to leave as soon as he got to the podium.
Well, is he still gonna have the chutzpah to think that he can prevail?
Well, I think he will have that chutzpah, but I don't think he'll prevail.
I think the UN might just move this time, and I sure hope they do.
Uh Larry, there really were only about a dozen people in the hall, eight or nine of whom uh work for Netanyahu, so that was no when he spoke this morning.
Uh I held my nose and tightened my stomach muscles and watched it because I knew we were going to talk about it.
Uh that was no surprise.
But the comments from President Trump afterwards are not exactly good news for Benjamin Netanyahu.
Chris, the the cut that we just reviewed before we started the show.
Is that something that you said?
I will I will not allow Israel to annex the West Bank.
No, I will not allow it.
It's not gonna happen.
Did you speak with Netanyahu about this?
Yeah, but I'm not gonna allow it, whether I spoke to him or not.
I did, but I'm not allowing Israel to annex the West Bank.
There's been enough.
It's time to stop now.
Okay.
How's he gonna stop him?
Well, he can cut off money and he can cut off uh further weapons supplies.
Um it's it there's a real interesting dynamic going on here because notice he had a sit-down with uh member the Gulf Arabs and uh and I think Egypt all at the UN.
Uh and I guarantee you they delivered a very tough message to him, putting him on notice that you know they weren't gonna have any further you know dealings with him that were positive unless he held the line on this and stopped Bibi Netanyahu.
Now, you're correct to believe that uh Netanyahu may be so reckless and arrogant to believe that he can go ahead and do whatever the hell he wants and just uh dare true Trump to try to stop him.
Um now, while all that's going on, the whole Venezuela thing's playing out in the background, too, because we're seeing the build the same kind of build-up we saw in uh the uh around Iran in the week in the you know 10-12 days preceding the U.S. attack, deployment of naval forces, deployment of error assets.
We're seeing that as well now with respect to Venezuela, and there's been some speculation that all of that is in uh to potentially secure the Venezuelan oil once the attack on Iran goes off because the Iran could shut down the Gulf and is to have make sure there's maybe another alternative source of oil.
At least there's some people thinking that way.
Wow.
Uh, you know, I've been asking everybody uh all week, uh Ray, including you and Larry, if um Trump controls Netanyahu or Netanyahu controls Trump, and then Chris found this uh cut from Tucker Carlson, Which is very, very uh telling.
Chris number 26.
I mean, BB's running around.
This is a fact.
I'm not guessing about this because I talked to people he said it to is running around the Middle East, his region and his own country, and telling people point blank, just stating it, I control the United States.
I control Donald Trump.
He's saying that.
And again, I'm not guessing at all.
That's a fact.
And I dare them to say that's not true because it is true, and they know it's true.
So I'm an American.
How do you think it makes me feel?
Even if I did no surprise that BB's boasting, but where is this going to get him?
I mean, you challenge Trump's ego at your peril.
Yeah.
Well, everybody but Netanyahu.
Uh with Netanyahu has a certain uh Trump has a certain uh patience.
Um Netanyahu is going to say this to everybody, and to including his wife, because his whole power depends on his relationship with the U.S. president.
Now, his bragging is uh par for the course.
Uh whether he controls Trump to that extent he has so far.
Now what happens if there's a uniting for peace resolution?
What is what if the General Assembly authorizes a peace seeking to be forced to go into Gaza?
What if the Israelis shoot up the Samud flotella, which is mostly in Crete now, I believe, and ready to go uh to to Gaza.
They have 40 42 ships now ready to go.
Well, I think that if the timing is fortuitous, if the Israelis act uh as is their character and shoot up these people with drones, and then the UN General Assembly might just face into the situation and say, look, this is a bridge too far.
We're gonna authorize uh we're gonna have a uniting for peace uh resolution.
We're gonna approve it, and we're gonna now what will the U.S. do then?
Will they they don't have a veto anymore?
This is a different kind of procedure.
That's when the it will hit the road.
And of course, uh you have to remember uh that uh in my view, I think that the Netanyahu has some blackmail potential against Trump, and I think that's one thing that's working here.
Um it's uh I may be wrong on that, but there's actually some evidence about that now.
What is the fact that the Mossad agent that was handling uh uh Epstein uh has talked about about this and how Trump should just make a clean breast of it and I have to run Jeff Jeff Sachs is waiting for us, but before I do, what are you doing tomorrow afternoon, Ray McGovern?
Oh, I'm speaking at this uh big peace and freedom rally.
Uh uh Gerald Cliente Kontes are kind of convening a whole bunch of us there.
I'm very happy to be there.
A lot of my New York friends are coming up, and including people who were on the U.S. boat to Gaza in 2011.
Uh the timing is fortuitous, but these were the courageous people, many of them Jewish people, who uh helped us outfit and pay for this U.S. boat to Gaza, which Obama made sure never got out of the harbor of Athens.
Larry, I wish uh that you could have could be with us tomorrow because for all of my work with Ray McGovern, he and I have never met in person.
Oh I am gonna surprise him with a big bear hug and smother him with kisses at a time that he leaves.
Whoa!
That's unlike Petraeus.
Right, oh God.
But this this is the this is uh meritorious, not sycophonic.
Uh Kingston, New York, the uh birthplace of democracy uh in America, the buildings were constructed in the 1600s.
Uh Scott Ritter will be there, Dennis Gusinich will be there, Roger Waters via Remote, Ray will be speaking.
Our uh mutual friend Joe Lauria, it'll be a very festive and very passionate uh afternoon.
Guys, thank you very much.
Thanks for joining me.
Thanks for accommodating my schedule today.
Uh have a great weekend, Ray.
See you tomorrow.
All the best.
Thanks, Judge.
Bye bye.
Thank you.
And if you're watching us live coming up at 5 p.m.
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