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Aug. 20, 2025 - Judging Freedom - Judge Andrew Napolitano
22:18
COL. Lawrence Wilkerson : Neocons and Deep State Under the Bus?
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Hi, everyone.
Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
Today is Thursday, August 21, 21st, 2025, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins us now.
Colonel, I thought I would entitle this segment, Is Trump throwing the neocons and the deep state under the bus?
But then I thought I would ask you, is it even possible to throw the deep state under the bus?
Or would a president do so at his peril?
I think not.
And I think it's because it's a multifaceted deep state.
It's not just a single entity.
We like to call them the neoconservatives for convenience, but there's money, big money behind it.
And as I've said before, this big money is very, very frightened that it will have to jump ship and change allegiances because the economic, cultural, educational, military, financial, you name it, power is eking out of the West and going rapidly to the East.
So they've got to make some decisions whether they continue to try to arrest that seepage of power.
It's inexorable.
Or they jump ship.
And they're concerned themselves and arguing, I think, among.st themselves about what's the best course of action.
Meanwhile, they're pursuing preserving the empire.
I mean, you and I are not particularly fond of quoting Chuck Schumer, but do you remember that famous statement he made when he was reporting to give advice to the president?
Be careful of the deep state because they can get you six ways to Sunday.
I mean, that phrase six ways to Sunday meaning many different ways.
I mean, they could start a war or they could.
could cause a false flag that could do something that could produce tumult and chaos.
Absolutely not.
Yes.
I think that's what they're already about to a certain extent.
That's what Ukraine is all about.
That's what Iran is all about.
And the Levant in general, to include Israel.
That's the reason I keep saying, Israel's our tool.
We're not Israel's tool.
We like to make it look like we're Israel's tool.
But they're our tool, actually.
They are doing our business in the Levant.
Lindsey Graham is absolutely right when he says, if they were not doing it, we would have to be doing it.
And would you rather we be doing it?
Well, here's something that might change your mind on Lindsey Graham.
Cut number nineteen, Chris.
Can't believe I said he was right about anything.
Either we're going to help Ukraine or we're not.
Give them the F-16s, let them fly the planes, long range artillery to hit targets inside of Russia.
How do you deter Putin?
Yarn this guy to the teeth.
If we pull the plug on Ukraine, it would be worse than Afghanistan.
So two and a half years later, you're still standing and you're in Russia.
Putin fears Trump, and he's been a I think he's been tough.
And my advice to President Trump and Marco is if you have to convince Putin that if this war doesn't end justly and honorably with Ukraine making concessions also, we're going to destroy the Russian economy.
We have the ability to do it.
To Europe, why don't you put tariffs on India for buying Russian oil?
To Europe, why don't you threaten China with tariffs for being the largest purchaser of Russian oil?
To Europe, you can do more.
If Europe and the United States banded together and we told Russia that if this war does not come to an end, we're going to destroy your fossil fuel economy, this war would come to an end.
I think we have the ability to crush the Russian economy through putting tariffs on people buying Russian oil and gas, buying cheap oil to prop up his war machine.
And I intend to push that until I can't push anymore.
He's a madman.
No more.
No war in human history, 5,000 years of which we know a little bit about, has ever ended justly and honorably it's just not in the nature of the beast of war you're right colonel and god only knows what he had in mind but i'm gonna wait i'm gonna guess that he can't wait to sit next to president trump in that golf cart and start whispering in his ear again and then god only knows what what will happen he can't be happy that president trump a
dropped the demand for a ceasefire and b recognized no nato in ukraine no ukraine in nato exactly and i i think there's gonna be some whispering for donald Donald from Donald into Lindsay's ear too.
Why are you losing my possibilities of maintaining my vast majority in the United States Congress?
Why are you divesting us of the power that I gain for you in the legislative branch?
Because that's what's happening, they're losing people.
I would imagine that Senator Graham and Governor and not Governor General Kellogg, who were not in Alaska, understandably, Graham wouldn't have a role there and Kellogg wasn't invited, could not be happy with the apparent amicable nature of the new communications between the United States and Russia?
No, a lot of people, I think, that you and I could name many of, weren't too happy with that.
I don't think that the image that Trump gives off when he's with Putin in respect to his group.
has ever been all that beneficial for him.
With some of them, yes, probably.
But the closer he gets to Putin or even appears to get to Putin, the more he distances people, even from his own constituency from his plans.
That's a dangerous thing for him that I think he recognizes.
I think he intuits it, but the attraction is like magnetism between the two people.
I think they actually probably, if they were in a private meeting and nothing really was at stake other than maybe real estate, that they'd get along fine.
Yeah.
What Chris just showed, Chris, if you want to put that up again.
Next to Trump is Zelensky.
You can't see him in this view.
Next to Secretary Besant is a glum looking.
looking, uh, General Kellogg.
So Kellogg was there when Zelensky and the others visited the White House on Monday.
And there he is, looking like he can't wait to meet his, his bosom buddy, President Zelensky.
Is this war going to end on the battlefield or in the conference room?
I think both places, but it's not going to end on the battlefield in a significant way that is going to bring peace.
And I don't mean that it's not going to be decisive in the way Russia ultimately defeats Kiev, but I don't think it's going to bring peace.
And I think the real arbiter of that is Ukraine.
And I don't see them being a good arbiter.
I see them continuing the battle after the peace.
You and I have a lot of friends who are neocons.
Do your neocons friends recognize the precarious state of the Ukrainian state and the extremely precarious state of the Ukrainian military as we speak?
August 21st, 2025.
Judge, I'd have to answer that from indirection because, believe it or not, I don't have any neocons that I know are neocons.
I mean, card-carrying neocons that will talk with me anymore.
Well, most of my neocon friends email me.
They don't want to be seen talking with me in public.
But do you know if the Lindsey Grahams of the world recognize that Ukraine is just about lost and no amount of military aid can reverse that at this point?
I think not.
I think the answer to that is no.
I was convinced at first that many of them were doing this for political reasons that didn't pertain to any sobriety.
or sanity I knew, but I could maybe understand the political indications and inclinations that they had involved with it, like continuing it so we just bleed Russia interminably.
But I think some of them actually believe this stuff.
And part of that is because, as you and I have discussed and Doug McGregor and others on your show have discussed, is the corrupt picture that they're getting from the triumvirant of Mossad, CIA, and MI6.
It's as corrupt as it's ever been.
And Judge, I have seen it fundamentally corrupt.
I wonder if Trump is still getting false reports on the number of Russians and the number of Ukrainians killed.
I'm sure Putin enlightened him on that in that regard, but I'm not sure he believed him.
And yes, I answer your question, absolutely, because that's what I'm still hearing he's getting.
Wow.
Wow.
Why would Trump have told Chancellor Mertz and President Macron and presumably the others, Von der Leyen and Stormer and the others that were there?
the United States would engage in a security guarantee using the military.
Maybe I'm asking the question wrong.
What is a security guarantee?
Well, what's being guaranteed?
Well, it works two ways at least.
One is not so important as the other, but it is important, and that is how are you going to police the peace?
You have to have security guarantees for that, and in that, I think Putin has made it clear that he will accept some forces in the line of contact, if you will, the DMZ, the border, whatever we're going to call it, but he will accept
he won't accept others and the ones he won't accept categorically are nato or nato like forces the other side of the security guarantees mostly pertain to Ukraine in the sense that Zelenskyy or whoever is in charge in Ukraine has got to feel like that he has some way she has some way to respond should Russia renew belligerence.
I think that's nonsense.
I think that's the last thing the Russians want to do, but that's something that they feel they have to have in order to feel comfortable with any kind of peace agreement.
On the other side, of course, is Moscow and their is very clear.
Their security guarantee is very clear.
No more NATO expansion period.
Here is Foreign Minister Lavrov yesterday, Chris Cut No. 18.
Following the summit of Russia and the United States in Alaska, where we have achieved significant progress in moving towards defining the future shape and parameters for conflict settlement,
Following this event, the European countries, together with Mr. Zelensky, went to Washington and there they tried to promote their own agenda which is aimed at making sure that the security guarantees follow the logic of isolating Russia,
the logic of uniting the Western world and Ukraine in order to continue the aggressive confrontational policy of holding Russia back and in mind of the goal of inflicting a strategic defeat on Russia.
We completely reject such proposals and initiatives besides the Ukrainian regime and its representatives.
are making quite specific comments on the current situation directly showcasing that they are not interested in a sustainable long-term and fair conflict settlement.
Well there you have it.
It doesn't matter what you call the troops there, under what flag they appear.
It's not acceptable to them.
No, not if it looks anything like what...
I noticed he took his CCP t-shirt off.
I thought he looked pretty good at that.
And I thought his explanation of it was perfect.
Yeah, those of us on the show, including the host of this show who can be a little snarky, all appreciated, you foremost among us, that CCCP t-shirt or sweatshirt or whatever it was.
It really caught everybody's attention.
Knowing the Russians, they debated over whether or not he should wear that for a couple of hours.
Sergei probably debated with himself as to whether or not he should wear it.
the new york times online edition had a piece the other day i don't usually read that rag anymore but i happened to stumble on this and it looked like that opening sentence was smart and the opening sentence essentially said why are these leaders in europe leaving spas important meetings and conferences and so forth and rushing to the United States.
They're doing so because they understand that one of the characteristics of Donald Trump is he listens to the last person from whom he hears.
That is a characteristic of Donald Trump.
The other characteristic is he tells people what he thinks they want to hear, the people that are immediately in front of him.
Exactly.
Which might be why he gave a And then he told Fox News the next day, well, not boots on the ground but air power.
Air power is as destructive as boots on the ground.
It's a I don't know how you deal with that kind of material character.
I just don't.
And I feel for all these parties trying to deal with it.
What good has come out of Russia?
Out of Alaska.
Excuse me.
Out of Alaska.
Out of the Alaska meeting.
Well, one thing powerful, I think, and that is no ceasefire.
That I think Trump is adamant about that.
There'd be no ceasefire.
You got Napoleon on one side totally victorious.
You got a side on the other that is going to be utterly destroyed if we don't stop this very shortly.
And so you want the side that's winning like that to have a ceasefire.
That's insanity.
You have ceasefires when you do things like we did on the Korean Peninsula and you wage a bloody, bloody war and no one's winning and you just kind of move back by inches.
And then because of the North Koreans, of course, the dilatory North Koreans, we talk for almost three years, but that's when you have ceasefires, is when you have a situation like that.
This isn't like that.
The Russians have won, period.
Well, there he is with the sweatshirt or t-shirt.
Sergey's put on some pounds.
Yeah, yes.
He's still so smart and so charming.
I mean, you yourself said, I don't want to use the language you use, but he and Rubio are not in the same category, not at all, not even close.
No, Powell said he was one of the finest foreign ministers.
ambassadors, whatever he'd ever met.
Did you appreciate the way Trump treated the G7?
At one point he put them out of the Oval Office and made them stand in a hallway for 45 minutes while he supposedly spoke to Putin.
We don't even know if he spoke to him.
There was no readout.
There was no acknowledgement of the call from the Kremlin.
Then when they came back in the Oval Office, he had them sitting in front of his desk like he was the headmaster and they were the students caught smoking in the washroom.
If Trump's intention was to say, The world has changed and it has most dramatically changed and is changing in an economic sense.
So get out there in the lobby and sit for a while, you G7 dudes.
I'd be all for that, but I has no way my in my mind that I would think Trump would be that smart.
I think it was personality dominance, which is something he loves and something he's very good at.
When the Austrians wanted a security guarantee, or the Russians wanted a security guarantee when they entered into that treaty in 1955, that's the picture.
There's the picture from over Trump's shoulder of them sitting there and a few of them, including Rubio, standing.
All my vassals are seated.
at my feet.
The Austrian security guarantee, you probably know this, it's hilarious if you don't.
Not that you don't, but the fact of this seems hilarious to the modern ear, was a Soviet official permanently assigned to the Austrian government in their security council, and he sat there and it worked.
Yes.
True, the Russian troops and tanks were gone, Austria prospered, it stayed neutral, they didn't have to spend a ton on the military, and everybody was happy.
Yes, especially that representative, because he was living in Vienna rather than Moscow.
Right, right, Moscow's beautiful now, it was not.
Not him.
in right right um i don't foresee something like that happening in ukraine do you i mean it's illegal to speak the russian language in ukraine right now well if it did happen it would be a revolutionary move and it would be a good move in my view it would tailor it after that agreement which worked quite well should donald trump fear the deep state Absolutely.
And it's not a monolithic feature.
It's different aspects of American power and to a certain extent, billionaire power spread across dual and triple and quadruple citizenship in different countries but we you and I both could name most of the countries that count um and it's segmented and it's fractured at times and if we had a really good i watched hw bush do this hw bush was probably as experienced if not more so than dick training He was a bureaucratic
entrepreneur par excellence and he'd been in the intelligence community ever since we hauled him out of the Pacific as I think a 17-year-old when he was shot down.
He was in the intelligence community his entire career.
That's the reason Ronald Reagan used him as vice president to run some very nefarious stuff, a lot of stuff while he was eight years as vice president.
But he was very knowledgeable guy.
And one of the things he could do and do incredibly well was deal with the kind of powers that were arrayed around him and he knew about from his intelligence community work over some 35 years.
He could deal with them.
One time he lost big, lost big, and Jim Baker and he had a long conversation about this.
Baker didn't agree with him.
I agreed with what Bush said.
This is all told me by Powell and a little bit by Brent Scokar, was that the Israelis got him.
They got him unelected and they got Bill Clinton elected.
There were other things too, Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, other things that happened at that time.
No read my lips, no new taxes, you know, all those things played a role, but the big role was played by Israel because he had forced them, beaten them about the head and ears into the peace process.
How did they, how did the Israelis get Bill Clinton elected?
You know something, John?
There is money too, yes, but there's a lot of talk right now about Ehud Barak, who appears in the Epstein files almost endlessly, and Bill Clinton, who matches him.
And the way those talks went awry at the last minute with all the blame being placed on Arafat and the Arabs, and Arafat, like a deer caught in the headlights, had no clue that they were going to derail that fast.
was caused by the pressure brought on both Barack and Clinton by what was in the Epstein files.
And of course, Mossad knew and knows about it.
Yes.
Yes.
Do you believe that such pressure is being brought to bear on Donald Trump?
At present time, I don't think it's necessary, but would it be brought to bear?
Were it to be necessary?
I think so.
Well, Colonel, thank you very much.
As always, always a pleasure to chat with you.
We look forward to seeing you next week, my dear friend.
Take care.
Thank you.
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