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April 24, 2026 - Jim Fetzer
01:11:53
The New JFK Show #298 with Jim Fetzer, Larry Rivera, Gary King and Dee McFarlane
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, MahmoudAshraf/mms-300m-1130-forced-aligner, sat-12l-sm, script v0.9, and large-v3-turbo
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Time Text
Camera Pan and Flash Evidence 00:14:54
Welcome to the new JFK show, number 298.
Tonight we've got Dee McFarlane, Larry Rivera, the man, Jim Fetzer, and I'm Gary King.
We have two presentations and we're going to start with Dee.
All right, let's mow over them in the JFK.
Okay, can you guys see me and hear me?
Yep, yep, yep.
Okay, well, what I'd like to do is read you one of my articles that I've written, and it was called What Were the Working Plans to Kill the President?
These are my suppositions.
And plan A, what I believe was first of all, I believe that this whole assassination was supposed to happen at the corner of Houston and Elm, where the president was going to get hit, and Lee Harvey Oswald, who Larry has proven was standing on the steps, was going to die moments after the president got hit.
Plan A was first of all, they were there's people up in the county records building, and we've long known that there were people up there in those windows.
And then what was supposed to happen was the president, I believe, was supposed to be immobilized before he got to the corner.
I know this is a contested view.
But I believe that the whole six-floor sniper's nest and the mail-order rifle were afterthoughts because what was supposed to happen was Lee was going to be killed the moment a single bullet hit the president.
The men were up there on the steps with him and that they were going to kill him where he stood.
Now, the dart hit on the president.
There is evidence of this hit.
It can be found in the testimony of Roy Kellerman.
Kellerman states that he observed the president reach with his left hand to his right shoulder.
Kellerman doesn't confirm where he observed this president reach up, where the car was during the motorcade.
But it's not seen in the Zapruder film of JFK reaching with his left hand up to his right shoulder.
And I suggest that it was just before the car reached the Elm Street turn.
Roy Kellerman, here's his testimony.
He's in the front passenger seat of the presidential limousine.
Upon turning his head to the left, he observed President Kennedy with his left hand in back of him, appearing to be reaching to a point on his right shoulder.
Well, I believe that happened before they got to the turn.
After being hit with this dart and before the turn, the assassination and the elimination of the Patsy was all supposed to happen quickly.
As I mentioned, JFK was going to be hit by one shot and it's being taken from the county records building.
Oswald would have been shot split seconds afterward.
A pistol would have been thrown down at Oswald's dead feet to sell the story of a pistol wielding dead commie who had got a lucky shot off at the president.
The men who would have killed Kennedy would have been held up as heroes who overtook the assassin before he got another shot off and hit the first lady.
Instead, this simple false scenario narrative, which was conjured up by the smug, overconfident plotters, all went wrong when Plan A fell through.
The plotters' unthinkable chain of events began here as their single shot county records building expert sniper missed his mark.
Something thwarted the close shot from the county records building for unforeseen reason and certainly unplanned reason.
The county records building and the third floor windows spectators are out of frame during the limo turn, and the strange things happen to the Hughes film just as the car was making the turn.
You'll see in the Hughes film, I wish I could share this with you somehow, but in the Hughes film, you'll see that the frames get all melted when the limo is making the turn.
Any way I can share the photos I have, Jim?
You can't share them right there.
Do a screen share.
We can make you host and you can do a screen share.
Okay.
Gary, you want to make the host so we can share the screen?
Yeah, let me pause.
Yeah, let's pause.
Go ahead, D.
Okay.
So, as the presidential car begins to travel down Houston Street, a number of people are seen in the second floor windows, second or third floor windows.
I'm not sure which floor that is.
I understand in that building there's some type of subfloor, but you can see them on the picture on the right there up in the windows.
A number of people can see there.
It's the County Records building.
The left turn onto Elm Street is only 40 50 to wait from where Oswald was innocently standing on the depository steps.
As the motorcade heads north on Houston Street, the lead car with Jesse Curry and four Sorrels gains distance in front of the president's car and gets way out in front.
Greer simultaneously slows the speed of the presidential car.
As it passes below the spectators seen on the County Records Building third floor windows.
Both the Mark Lane film and the Hughes film inexplicably stop just as the presidential limo passes directly in front of the County Records Building open windows.
I believe the tranquilizing dart was likely fired at this point, so the president would be fully immobilized during the slow 120 degree turn onto Elm.
Note Jackie Kennedy's pink hat at In the bottom of the next photo, the first lady and the president are directly in front of the spectators at the side of the street, dressed in red shirts.
Which I'm gonna bring that photo here to you.
I don't see here.
Okay, wait, sorry.
Okay, as the president's car makes the turn, a strange cutter's flies can be seen in the Hughes film.
And the photos on the left there, you can see those spectators up in those windows.
A moment later, a flash can be observed emanating from the open third floor windows of the county records building as the president's car continues on after the slope turn to Elm.
The gun flash is, you can see it on the right photo, top right here.
There's a photo enhanced, color enhanced photo where you can see the flash of what I believe is a rifle shot can be seen there.
I have a.
If you'd like to see the Hughes film in its entirety, I could play that, I believe.
Would you like that?
Let me see if that'll work.
Can you see it?
Yes, we can.
Okay, perfect.
So, this is the Hughes film.
Presidential cars coming up on Main Street.
There's the lead car.
Here's the president's car.
I'm going to slow this down a little bit.
Now, in the Hughes film, they really white out the front of the County Records building and part of it.
And we can see the spectators a lot better in the Mark Bell out of camera original film.
Now, you'll see if you watch up the windows here, you'll see a flash emanating from this window here.
You can see my cursor.
Is that better?
Yeah.
Okay.
You can see how the camera pans over to the left here.
And there's all of a sudden we're getting a melty film just as the car's making the turn.
You'll note on the right here, this is LBJ's car.
He's holding back.
They're holding way back so that they don't go into the shooting zone there.
They're being very careful about making that turn.
You see how they whited out the county records building there?
They really don't want you to see what's going on up in there.
Well, I think we missed our flash, but let's bring it back.
Car's making a turn.
You're going to want to look up here.
And here's the president's car.
And you'll see this cut right as it gets in front of this window, it's going to cut.
And when the camera pans back to the left, You're gonna, or back to the right rather, you're gonna see that flash, and I hope you can see it.
Give this thing a moment.
This woman in yellow here, Larry, is where I was telling you.
She's pointing out what's something going on up in that window.
Watch up here now.
There's a flash.
Did you see it?
Or not?
Back it up.
Watch up to the window right here.
See it?
Wow.
Did you see it or not?
Yeah, yeah.
What I was going to say is in the Elchins 5, which is the moment right before that, there's nobody in those windows at all.
I tried to put it in the chat, but I didn't let it.
They could have been removed.
They could have been removed.
You know, Elchins got his.
No, it's just a couple of seconds before they passed by.
So it's possible that they were still, you know, Hiding, you know, and yeah, check out the launchers.
Five, I was gonna drop it in the chat, but Gary has got a restriction there.
Okay, so we're just gonna watch it one more time just to see the flash.
Watch the window, there it is.
Okay, yeah, so we're gonna go back and go to our Sandy.
How do I bring my article back up?
Let's see, wait, okay, I think I got it here.
All right, here we are.
Okay, so we've seen the flash.
This is the window here.
Just as the president's car making the Elm Street turn, the Hume Street has been altered and melted.
You can see the melted frames here.
This is the shot from that window, and this is where I believe that one single shot was supposed to be taken.
See, right when the car is making that left hand turn, is when you get.
JFK isolated in the right rear of the car.
There's no risk of hitting Connelly that's sitting right in front of him.
But so that shot, and it's pretty darn close, but for one reason or another, they missed.
And as I was saying in our last show, and as Larry knows, and he's proven that Houston Street dead ended in those days.
So a shot taken it in.
At this moment, when the president's car is making that turn, it's going to go harmlessly down into the open street here.
And there's nothing back there but the rail yards.
And you'll note on this top right photo, these two policemen standing here on the very far right of the crosswalk.
It's an unusual place to stand because normally, when you have a policeman that's blocking off a road, they'll stand in the center of the street.
But these Two policemen here are standing off to the right in a very careful place because this is the firing zone, and this is where I believe that first shot was supposed to happen.
And now, these two policemen, as you can see, they're standing off to the right.
Uh, so at that exact moment, when the president's car was halfway through the turn, the president would be isolated, as I said, and they wouldn't run the risk of hitting Connolly.
They didn't want to hit Jackie Kennedy because that would cause a massive public outcry.
The timing of the single shot was crucial.
The shot must be taken just as the car makes a turn.
As you can see, the policeman on the right of the crosswalk.
Secret Service agent Forrest Sorrels gains distance from the front of the president's car as they're making the turn.
You can see on the right here how very cautiously LBJ's car is hanging back way behind the Queen Mary.
This is LBJ's car on the right here.
Maybe I can click on it now.
Okay.
Suspects in the Window 00:04:21
So the Mark Bell film.
Which is this is a frame from the Mark Bell film on the bottom right.
It's a wonderful close up film, the out of camera original.
Now, the one that I've been used to is a really horrible, dark film that you can't see anything, but the out of camera original is quite good, and I can bring that up here and show you the Mark Bell film.
Which is super clear.
This is it here.
I'm going to slow this down to.
But there's our suspects.
Let me back that up a little bit.
Okay, there's our suspects up in the window.
This is Jack.
If you look down at the bottom here, you'll see Jackie Kennedy's pink pillbox hat right here.
And this just goes to show you how close these people were to the car.
It's amazing they're just hanging out the window like that.
Yeah, they look very rather suspicious.
Now, after the shooting, they're gone, they are not there.
And who would go back to work?
You know, right as the plaza is erupting into chaos when the president's car passes through the plaza.
I mean, who, if there are workers in the building, why would they go back to work?
Wouldn't you hang out at the window and see what's going on?
But they're gone, and I'll show you in a moment with some other photos.
There's also some unusual blacking here of this Dell Tex building and the windows that you can't see because it sure looks to me like a fudge job has been done here.
With some Sir Marxalot black markers.
And plan A, as I say, is the president getting shot by one shot as he makes that turn.
And Oswald's up on the steps.
And it was all supposed to happen quickly.
Oswald was going to get shot right where he stood.
And his co workers were going to be false witnesses against him.
They were going to say he pulled out a pistol and shot the president.
And he was going to be lying there with a pistol at his dead feet.
So, we'll just continue watching this film.
It's a quite good film.
There's another couple interesting things here to see in this film.
One is if you look right here, there's a person who's running alongside the car.
You don't see this in the Zapruder film anywhere.
And you should see it.
Watch right here.
You see this person here running?
Running alongside the car?
Did you see it?
Yeah.
It's not in the Z film.
I mean, you should see this in the Z film, but you don't see this person that's running here.
This guy in the gray.
Anyways, that's another interesting little anomaly in this Mark Bell film.
The biggest anomaly is what's been removed.
Yeah, sure.
I mean, you got these cuts in the film.
I mean, really, would these people take their finger off the button?
You know, would they really do that?
Especially, yeah, that's uh, yeah.
So, anyways, we'll get back to the report.
Uh, very good.
And now, here's where I point out note the sloppy black marker alterations hiding this.
I think that's what that's hiding is what they call one of the Towner vans.
Well, down here?
Snipers and Sloppy Alterations 00:04:21
There were two vans there.
I think that's covering one of them.
It could be.
They're covering something.
Yeah, if you look at the Towner film, you'll see two vans.
I can see one of them there.
It looks like they're covering the second one.
Well, here's my contention, Larry there were snipers in these windows.
Okay, they line up perfectly to shoot at the president as he's going down Elm Street.
And I'll show you another photo coming up to demonstrate that.
Here's with the two policemen on the right.
The failure of both.
Let's see here.
One can presume a shot has already happened as the agent inside.
LBJ's follow up secret service car have already begun to react to the gunfire as seen in photos and films.
Left rear door of the follow up car from LBJ begins to open as that car makes the turn.
The failure of Plan A would bring it to Plan B.
And Plan B, what I believe, is there's another sniper team on the south side windows of the Dale Techs building.
Here on the right, the Vanish County Records Building.
Spectators, you can see the That the plaza is erupting into chaos.
Well, look up to these windows, these people.
Yeah, and notice how the one sheriff on the first one to the left.
The guy in the brown.
Yeah, he's the only one walking back away from the action and very calmly, you know, everybody's running, you know.
And that's the basis of Edgar Ortiz's research because he's got some very interesting information on who that guy might be.
Okay.
Well, you know that there was a person who was seen up in the depository building who was described as such, wearing a brown suit.
Yeah, but that guy is a detective.
Jim, correct me if I'm wrong.
The Dallas Police Department, the guys that wore those Stetsons, were a special division of the detectives or something like that.
Homicide.
Homicide and robbery.
Okay.
And that's what he's wearing, and he was part of that group, you know, right?
Big, tall, yeah, Texan, you know.
And uh, so Edgar, and he's got a few that's that's one frame of many.
And as people are just rushing past him, he's calmly walking back to uh the corner of Maine and Houston, which is the uh police department, yeah, yeah.
So, plan B. Had to happen right after Plan A fell through.
They didn't kill the president at the turn.
Plan B, the Dale Tech's building sniper teams were Plan B.
They took numerous shots, as many as five or six, but apparently missed hitting the president in the head.
As they missed, they hit Connolly at least twice, hit the chrome strip above the windshield on the bottom right here, and likely the shot that hit the curb down the street, which injured James Tague.
Plan A and Plan B were both easily falsely attributed to Lee Oswald, who stood just 40 to 50 feet away from the president's car on the TSBD steps as the car made the turn.
Had Plan A or Plan B snipers hit their mark, a pistol would have been thrown down, and his patriotic co workers would have killed Oswald where he stood.
Oswald Struggle Sequence 00:04:08
These men were holding Oswald, as I mentioned in our last show.
As the president's car made the turn and a struggle was happening there in the TSBD doorway.
The two black women you can see here, I pointed out last week that these two Secret Service agents are looking directly into the doorway.
And there's Leah Oswald.
And I believe what they saw was a struggle going on where.
They were, they had a hold of Oswald, and this, and you can see in the bottom right here is the shirt and tie man, and how obvious of a paste in this is.
And what are they hiding?
Well, they're hiding the people that had their hands on Oswald and were ready to kill him.
That's what's that's what why this guy was inserted in here.
And uh, Roy Lewis, who Larry has taken to the conference and got to know.
This is Roy Lewis's head.
He's oddly looking off to the right.
And did he, what did he tell you, Larry?
He don't remember that, doesn't he?
I thought he was looking towards the vans, but it doesn't line up.
Yeah.
I think they inserted his face here and that there's another hand holding on to Oswald, maybe down around the waist.
You can see how his shirt is stretched back here.
You forget how small that little piece of image.
Is infinitesimal.
It's a bitsy area of a photograph.
But, well, you can see here where I'm pointing how obvious of a paste in this is.
Why was he pasted in?
I'm suggesting that it was pasted in there because men held Oswald.
There's your Towner.
See at the top right, you've got the two bands.
And that looks like the area that's being.
Obliterated, though it could be, but you could see actually you could see the van in the front, yeah.
The five, no, but not the one in the second one, yeah.
Yeah, the second one should be here, right?
You're right, you're right.
You don't see the big van there, yeah.
That's what they're uh obliterating.
What I was pointing out here is look at the shadow here.
And that's a good uh, fine.
I never noticed that one.
That's in the uh.
That's in the Hughes.
Mark Bell, I believe that's in the Bell.
That's in the Bell.
That's in the Bell.
Yeah.
Mark Bell, out of camera original.
Yes, sir.
Yeah, that's in the Bell.
And you can see the shadows on the building here.
Yeah, that's Towner.
That's the one you're pointing out right now.
That's Towner.
And you know, these windows are open.
And here's another.
Well, that whole sequence of the Towner, Mike Machansko, we did a show on that years ago.
Yeah.
Mike proved that the Towner film had been altered in that whole sequence where it makes a turn, where they apparently took the same image of Jackie throughout the sequence and then they painted JFK's arm around Jackie.
It looks so ridiculous.
Yeah.
I did a study of the whole Towner film too, independently of Mike.
Now, I've gotten to know Mike through Facebook.
He contacted me, and we've had a number of long discussions.
And yeah, I know I've watched the shows and I've seen what he did.
But just that portion of the Towner, it looks so ridiculous.
It's out of sync.
You can tell that the same image was used throughout that sequence.
Mauser Weapon and Plan A 00:09:01
There's a portion.
That's been completely cut out of there, you know, where jerks, you know, where they might have taken about nine or ten slides, you know.
So, yeah, yeah.
Now, the bottom right photo, I borrowed this, and I hope Ole Domagad won't mind.
And I, he's one of the guys I really admire.
Um, that's his shoulder there, but I wanted to show this, um, the view from where he happened to be standing on the bridge, and you can see how these windows on that south side of.
Dale Tex are perfect for shooting down this street.
And, you know, we know that the one shot hit the chrome on the top, and we know about the shot that hit James Tate down the street.
So here's a little thing that I made where you can see how from those windows on the Dale Tex on the south side.
If they were aiming at JFK's head, which is of course what they were doing, how would it go over and hit that chrome piece from here?
Now, there's no other way, you know, like if someone was up in the sixth floor window, they're not going to hit the chrome strip or the curb down the street on that kind of an angle.
But this low angle from the Dale Tex just lines up perfectly to the chrome strip strike.
Which is here below here.
So the plan A and the plan B failure, where JFK is still alive, he's going down the street.
You know, Connolly's been shot twice.
All Secret Service driver Bill Greer had to do at that point after plan A and B missed was to stop the car for the assassins.
I wrote here over 50 people said the limo stopped.
Well, I believe it's up to 72 now.
And right in front of the storm drain, of course, for a sure kill.
Numerous other snipers fired at the same scheduled stop.
Okay, because.
You know, they were gonna open up on him, and they, you know, JFK was not gonna get out of that plaza alive.
And ultimately, they had to stop the car.
And there, of course, there was those yellow painted curb markers to help Greer know where to stop.
As noted, the original plan A was to kill JFK on the turn.
And when that missed, plan B went into effect.
And although, you know, it's been speculated, That shots came from a broom closet on the west side of the Dale Tech's building.
That firing position, although being closer than the south side windows, is ultimately obstructed by the fire escape and may have just been an observation post to monitor the Patsy Lee Oswald, who was standing on the TSBD steps.
I mean, you want to keep your eyes on your Patsy.
Oftentimes, what is hidden is what.
What must be further investigated?
The obfuscation of the Southside Dale Tech's windows falls into this category of interest.
Well, one of four patsies, actually.
So they had the whole doorway, you know, scoped and scouted.
Yeah, they got all of them were there.
You got Love Lady and you got Fraser.
Fraser was there for sure.
They took them out.
Yeah.
And, you know, I think they were still trying to.
Uh, you know, formulate a plan because obviously that's called, yeah, yeah, yeah.
When the president gets hit down the street from numerous different directions and everybody knows it, it's called contingency.
You know, they didn't know who are the four, they had four of them, yeah.
And we know, you know, that they arrested uh Frazier, and I think that they were gonna say that Frazier was down on the bridge.
That was the first gun that was found, you know, his with uh, right.
Well, they.
That was the first gun that was announced, right?
WVAP that was the first one, right?
Then it goes into a Mauser, yeah, and then from a Mauser it goes to a Carcano, okay?
So it took them and took them to the next day to say Carcano, I believe.
Uh, then that's that's uh, that's what supports my theory is that had they planned to say that Lee Harvey Oswald was going to be up there with a rifle.
Well, they would have had these things in order and they would have had, you know, whatever rifle was up there the Carcano.
Craig saw it, Craig saw it, and Waitsman and all those guys up there.
They knew it was a Mauser, you know.
They said it was a Mauser, right?
And so, but Jim, didn't you say that your friend Haley said that she wrote out the rifle order form?
Yeah.
Did Haley say when they wrote this out?
You know, that day, a week before, the day after, no?
Let's be curious.
I'd be curious.
Only has 100 hours with Haley I recorded.
Okay.
And I think you can find it there.
But yeah, she wrote them out.
It was she who wrote the sporting goods order.
I believe it was in advance, though.
It wasn't after the fact.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think that the whole sniper's nest and sixth floor mail order rifle, I think they hurriedly made those things up.
And I believe that they were so smug in their confidence of killing the president, either from the county records building or the Dale Tex building, where they had their snipers.
That they didn't think he would be alive halfway down Elm Street, but he was.
And you know, the final, the desperate plan C, the third desperate option was to unleash a full assault of shots from many locations in front of the car by multiple snipers.
JFK could not be allowed to escape Dealey Plaza alive.
It was in the plaza that dozens of supporting forces, I believe, were stationed.
And instructed to use enemies to control the scene.
Identify photographers and spectators who would challenge the false narratives, which would risk exposing the plotters and the multiple assassins.
A big job like a presidential assassination, coupled with the overthrow of a government, requires a large workforce.
I don't think they went in there with just a few guys.
So, plan C was stopping the car in front of the storm drain.
And at the center of six to eight sniper teams.
You know, you guys have identified those things, I think.
The failsafe final plan ensured the president would be dead before he escaped Gilly Plaza.
The six-floor snipers and ass mail order rifle were hurriedly invented, as I say.
Billy Lovelady had to be used to imply that the Alkins 6 photo, which captured Oswald in the doorway, showed Lovelady instead.
Love, as you know, Lovelady had been a wanted criminal who was on the run when he turned up for a job at the TSBD.
Lovelady had stolen guns from Andrews Air Force Base.
And after attaining employment at the TSBD, persons associated with the book depository paid his outstanding fine.
Love Lady, as we know, is amazing.
Yeah, he was very pliable.
Okay, he was beholden, but he was a poor liar, right?
He's on the lam, you know, he shows up and he picks him up, you know, come on.
Wanted Criminal Lovelady 00:12:24
And that's why I say you have never seen an interview of Love Lady.
And Larry, you were the only one to ever come up with anything as far as that goes when you played the Love Lady tapes on the show, which I did.
You know, I mean, that they're so telling where they say to Billy Lovelady, Were you on the steps?
He says, Yes.
He said, And then he goofs up because the lawyer, Bruton, asked Lovelady again, Was Oswald on the steps?
And of course, Lovelady's supposed to say, No, I didn't see him.
Instead, what does he say, Larry?
Could have been.
Could have been.
Could have been there.
So a charade was invented.
During the House Select Committee on Assassinations in the late 70s, which implies.
That was such a charade because the image that they showed Lovelady was from the Martin film and it had been underexposed.
Okay, so it was all dark.
It looked like he had a beard.
And they started going around in circles about his shaving habits.
I mean, it's so cheesy, you know?
Okay, well, if you watch.
Trying to justify, you know.
And Grodin, who is there, he knows why it looks like it's a beard, Jim, and he doesn't say anything.
It's underexposed, right?
Yeah.
In fact, in this latest interview that Grodin did, he said he needed a shave.
And then they asked Nick what Patricia said.
Yeah, yeah, you know, he sometimes goes without shaving a couple of days in a row.
Oh, man.
Real stupid dialogue, man.
Right.
And so they.
And, you know, and of course they invented this red flannel shirt thing, you know, where.
Yeah, the pocket.
You're talking about the pocket.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, well, yeah.
I mean, isn't that why they went to.
Tim wrote about that more than 12 years ago, the pocket thing.
Remember, Jim?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I know, it's ridiculous.
So it's not the same shirt.
Because it doesn't have a pocket in the breast pocket.
When nobody dared to bring out Groden, Jim wrote on Veterans Today, he said, Look, man, this guy's been doing this and this and that all along.
It's a fraud, don't believe it.
So the charade was invented that the love lady wore this red flannel shirt, even though the FBI photographed him in his red and white, vertically striped shirt.
They took photos of it.
They have it in his FBI report that that's what he's wearing.
And to try to say that Lovelady was wearing a red flannel shirt and they're trying to make it look like, you know, that that's Lovelady in the Alcon 6 photo, of course.
Well, they asked him, they asked him, come on.
I mean, this is like Keystone Cops.
They asked him, hey, bring the shirt that you wore that day, you know, and he showed up with the shirt that he wore that day.
Wear the clothes you wore that day.
Yeah.
Exactly, exactly.
So, um, you know, the red flag photographed him in the clothes that he wore that day.
You know, I mean, that's the most bungling thing I've ever seen.
I mean, if they were gonna really take this, you know, to another level, you know, you know, I've always thought that they stationed Grodin outside of Dealey Plaza five days a week with his magazines and all that, as um, you know, part of the cover up.
Just that was his job to hang out there all the time.
For decades.
Who?
Robert Grove?
Yeah, well, it could be.
It was when Katrina, when New Orleans was flooded, so I ended up in Dallas.
So I went to Dealey Plaza, and there's O'Groden with a table all set up with his magazines.
And so I just feel like they positioned him right outside the place for a very long time to gain credibility, but also anytime.
Grodin has a presentation.
The first thing he's going to say, and the only thing he ever says, is that the Z film is legit.
Lee Harvey was not standing in the doorway, and that's just his job.
Okay.
So, as you pointed out in your report, Larry, the lawyer, Bruton, he ended up being Lovelady's attorney, isn't that right?
Yeah, that happens every day.
You know, I mean, it seems to me to be a conflict of interest if the House Select Committee is.
You see it every day.
And you say they're sending him to get truthful answers from Lovelady.
You know, and dig this.
The guy lives in Florida and Lovelady lives in Colorado, you know?
It's really convenient.
Yes.
And didn't you also report that Bruton had, they sent him down to Mexico or something?
Is that right?
Bruton?
No, the Mexico thing is Joseph Ball, who sent some of these crooks down.
To cool off at Acapulco, maybe that's what you're talking about.
That's the attorney who, you know, was linked to Mexico, and that type of thing, you know, that's the story about that.
You know, that's in the Joseph Ball chapter, you know, the nefarious, you know, really crooked guy, you know.
So, as we know, information came from Chauncey Holt, Jim, you know, Chauncey Holt, you know, after the job in Dallas.
And him and his boys were treated to a month or one or two months vacation in Acapulco at a villa that these attorneys had there.
Hey, now, Gary, I want to point out that I don't see the Chauncey Hull interviews you guys did up on the JFK website on YouTube.
I don't think we ever did actually interview Chauncey Hull.
What?
No, we never had him on the show.
Jim knew him before.
Okay.
Jim, what were the years where you were talking to him before when he ended up in the hospital, remember?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you gave him some kind of blood thinner and overdosed him?
I met him at a restaurant at the Rose Bowl.
No.
No, but what was the year when Chauncey Hole was in the hospital and I think they overdosed him on blood thinner?
Yeah, yeah.
They gave him a blood thinner and he filled up like a tomato.
What year was that?
Do you remember?
What year?
Yeah.
I know that you used to talk to him.
Well, I talked with his daughter a lot, Karen.
Oh, okay.
I only had that one conversation with Chauncey at the Rose Bowl, direct with him.
Oh, okay.
He did go on a radio show, though, and Ted, quite a lot of stuff.
I was rather astonishing at the time.
That's not too hard to track.
I think that's on the internet, even.
Well, I believe he was the guy.
He was the little tramp.
Yeah, he was a third of the tramps.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, you know, I mean, I don't think that he was just there to deliver fake IDs, okay?
Because some interviews that I saw him do, the guy was admitting basically to being a hitman.
Well, he wasn't.
He was a hitman.
Yeah, I know.
He just wasn't a hitman in Dealey Plaza.
He was a hitman who could do tricks.
Yeah, I don't know.
You know, listen, he was doing these, that, that, Video with his daughter, okay?
And he wants to remain in good, you know, she doesn't want to tell her that he took a shot at the president.
He wants to tell her that he went there to deliver fake IDs, you know?
Yeah, look, look, look, look.
Yeah.
I got questions about your plan A.
I don't understand.
I don't understand why you or Ralph or anyone would think they needed a paralyzing dart.
I mean, that just seems to be.
May I respond?
Well, yeah, but let me give you my other point.
Yeah, yeah.
Go ahead.
A 38 from the steps of the book depository is just ridiculous.
Just ridiculous.
No one's going to believe that.
So those are my two complaints, my skepticism about your plan A. Go ahead and address them.
Okay.
All right.
Well, why would they immobilize him?
Because they don't want him to get out of the car.
And be surrounded by the people that love them that are on the streets.
And there were many there.
And I think that they were certain they were going to kill them.
And they just didn't want, they wanted to make sure their snipers hit their mark.
And they wanted to kill them with one shot.
They didn't want to shoot at them from five different directions.
It doesn't make any sense.
Yeah.
So, you know, he was all stressed up in the corset.
You know that he could hardly move anyway, he had very limited mobility, he wasn't going anywhere.
I've seen pictures of that corset, it's mostly cloth, it's mostly, yeah.
But he was cinched up with it and it had braces in it, D.
Okay, about that.
This was he had very limited mobility, he couldn't dodge out of the way.
And besides, if you're going to hit him with a bullet to kill him, what do you need a dart for?
You don't need the dart, it's totally unnecessary.
I, I, I reject it 100%.
As far as Chauncey being a shooter, I've gone through all the wounds.
I can't tell you how many times.
All the wounds, located all the shooters.
I can account for every wound in every shooter, and Chauncey was not among them.
Chauncey was a great shot.
Chauncey ran a school for assassins.
He could have been a shooter, but that wasn't his role at Dealey Plaza.
Okay.
Well, you know, and there was that other story I've heard him tell the other day.
Your Lee hypothesis, him being held, I think that's also a stretch.
I don't see any signs of Lee having been held.
Lee never said he was held.
He was more like in the middle.
It was the angle of the camera that makes him look.
He's way over on the side.
I don't think there was even anyone there to hold him.
We got Billy further down in front of him, we got the black tight man who's been put in there.
Top fuse gate, whatever, but he wasn't holding him either.
So, I mean, I think the Whitman film shows that area, you know, just seconds after the fatal shot, you know, and it's all blacked out.
It's all blacked out on that side of the steps.
I've done a study on that.
I mean, the shadows that are there don't line up with the side of the doorway.
And so, obviously, they blacked out that whole corner in the Wagner film.
Altered Shadows and Blackouts 00:02:32
I'm sure, look, you know, what little was left has been altered.
We know that.
And it's up to us to, you know, evaluate, you know, what's been altered and what isn't, and, you know, and just move on.
You know, it's, you know, everything that remains in one way or another has been altered.
You want to move on, Jim?
Yeah, I'll just finish you up with one sentence and say that.
Well, Lady died a very young age, right?
41 years old.
Oh, yeah.
They had to get Billy out of the way.
100%.
You're right, D. Gary, you can flip back to us and then go to Larry because he's got a couple photos he wants to share with us.
All right.
I'm going to pause recording.
All right.
Post.
Okay.
We're recording again.
It's not letting me do that.
Well, we heard you were recording, Ryan.
Larry, can we make Larry host?
Not yet.
I'm trying.
No, see, we still have D as host.
You haven't been made host.
You've got to resume host.
Okay.
All right, let me pause the recording.
Okay, they're going to start.
Hello.
Hey, Larry.
Well, a little short Blender tutorial here.
A few years back, Oh my god, a few years that's a 12 years ago.
Hey, that's a good looking man.
We went over down to uh Dallas, yeah, yeah, and took these pictures, you know.
This guy, all right.
So, who would have known that so many years later, uh, we would have been able to use these, you know, in photogrammetry?
In Blender, you know?
Wow, Larry.
So, you remember that picture, Jim?
You had that rotator cuff thing.
Blender Tutorial and Dallas Trip 00:15:54
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was in a swing, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we took that 14 hour trip, you know?
Yep, yep, yep.
Gary rented a van and he had like this bed in the back of the van, and Jim just, and me and Gary just driving away.
Yeah, jamming out to the Beatles the whole way.
Anyway, the reason now I find these so incredibly valuable is because this stairway, if it's there, it's not very good shape.
And this is the actual stairway.
This is the actual backyard on Neely where the backyard photos were supposedly taken.
For those who don't know or haven't been exposed to this, the backyard photos.
R, oops.
These, okay.
This is one of them.
This is 133B.
And the reason why this one is so important is because of this that you see right here.
The ring?
No, El Militante.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
The Militant.
Okay.
Now, I've already scaled this one.
If you look here where I'm pointing at right here, the scale is one to one to one.
That means in the X and the Y and the Z axis.
So this one is good to go.
And this one's just a little bit brighter.
Okay.
And this one is also scaled.
If you go, see, I clicked on it and I have it locked up already, you know, so it doesn't change in the size.
And so.
This is now where you can go ahead and work with it.
But before I come over to that side, how about we get Gary?
And I've already scaled this, but I'm going to go ahead and verify this anyway.
Okay.
And as you know, in any scientific thing, you got to have your controls and you got to have, in order to be able to run tests and whatever.
So, this is a perfect one.
And we can also do a gem, but I'm going to need for this example, I'm going to need Gary's exact height.
They're not exact, but just about, you know, six feet.
Six feet.
So, I'm going to go here and I'm going to hit the measuring tool.
And since you've got like your feet here are skewed there, we can go ahead and measure out.
There it is, about six feet right there.
511, 8.
Would that be okay given the bottom there?
Yeah.
So that one would be fine, you know.
And if I were to look at the properties here, the scale is correct.
Okay.
So I've locked it so that it doesn't change.
Now, if I were to do the same here with Jim, I would need to have Jim's height.
I would say what, five, nine, Jim?
Five, nine and a half, yeah, probably right there.
All right, so we're going to go ahead and we're going to measure five, nine, and there it goes.
Okay, perfect.
Perfect.
So we haven't scaled it.
See over here on the right, it's not scaled.
Okay, it's a little bit over.
So in order to set that, I'm just going to do a control A.
Okay, so it's now scaled to one to one to one.
Now, I can work with these, okay?
And I could have brought this one up a little bit.
Doesn't matter.
For example, a lot has been debated about the authenticity of this, okay?
Because the height, the rifle, the length of the rifle, the militant here, Jack White was the one who did a lot of this work back in the day.
And he would just lay down a couple of rulers, you know, and say, hey, you know, Let me see this picture.
If we know Lee's height is 5'9, 5'10, let me set this ruler here with that measurement on the photograph and measure the other items in the photo.
It makes sense, you know?
Yeah.
So that's what he did, you know?
And so, in doing so, okay, so just to give you an idea, before we continue over there, So, if I already have Gary set here, and I'm going to go ahead and, okay, we're already locked in on the scale, so it's not going to move.
So, if I were to go, for example, and measure this lumber here, okay, this is going to come out to about three.
Don't forget on these four, it's a little bit off to the left, but don't forget these four by fours actually are less than four inches.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's what the 350 something or 365 or something like that.
So it's within, you know, the correct measurement.
And what we find is that this one has like really uneven timbers all over the place, you know.
This is a 4x4, but when I go over here, I'm looking at this is like a 5x5.
You got this?
A little different, you know.
And, you know, obviously, Uh, these are uh, yeah, these are two by eights, I believe they would be.
Uh, and uh, so uh, let's see this handrail, it looks a little funky to me.
I'm where to go here, yeah.
Wow, that's almost six inches there, you know, like uh, really, really uh, like it's a Frankenstein, uh, yeah, it looks like a fun house, yeah.
So, anyway, after we were able to calibrate with that, then we can go ahead.
For example, I went ahead and modeled the stairs using everything that's in these photographs and using these photographs as the reference images.
I believe I have one here that's a side view.
Okay, mash, yeah.
Now there's one here that's a side view, but anyway.
Oh, here it is.
Here it is.
It's right in the front.
Here's one that I took that day, and little did I know that, you know, how important it would be, okay, on this angle of the stairs.
Okay.
So bear in mind that you don't see these.
I don't think this stairway, the stairs exist anymore, you know, unless.
You know, so anyway, now we can go ahead over here.
And we have this one.
We're working with this one.
See the yellow comes around.
And let's just take a measurement here.
And we're going to get a little.
I could go ahead and because we know for sure.
Okay, this is a perfect example.
We know for sure that it was 11 inches.
Okay.
On the wide.
All right.
So, what I would have to do here, because we're a little off, and I'm glad this happens to show you how this works.
Okay.
So, in this case, now I would have to scale this in order to fit that 11, I would have to scale it down just a little bit.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was Jack White that knew, found out how wide the.
Magazine was.
Right.
Well, that's the thing.
And by doing so, so now if I take another measurement here, just go right on the edge.
Okay.
Oops.
I'm going to have to go a little bit more.
Okay.
Or am I going to.
Right there.
Yeah, I'd say right there.
Okay, perfect.
Give or take a couple of, you know, so now we know that if we were to do this experiment based on the militant being 11 inches wide, okay, so now we can go to town here.
Okay, so I'm going to start with the rifle.
And as you know, the butt of the rifle is all the way down here.
You see it?
We have the pointer.
Yeah.
And I'm going to go ahead to the tip of the rifle.
Okay.
And we're talking about 3.29.
A little short for a rifle, isn't it?
So, by the same token, I'm going to go ahead and measure Lee.
Okay.
And see, he's got exactly the feet exactly the way you had him.
So, I'm going to go sort of like interpolate here in the middle.
Okay.
And then let's just go up and see what we get here.
And we're getting, and you see that?
Five, three.
Yeah.
Five, three.
Too short.
Okay.
Now we've calibrated this here, and it's pretty obvious.
Let me, okay, let me set the scale here, here, here, scale.
Okay.
And lock the scale.
So, Here, it's obvious that there's a problem with this.
Jim, any thoughts on your end over there?
No, you're 100% correct.
You're spot on, Lauren.
Go ahead.
So, what we're doing here is verifying Jack's work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now, if I were, for example, there was some information there that no, that thing wasn't 11 inches.
You know, it wasn't 11 inches, it was longer than that.
It shows they put the newspapers in too large when they manufactured the photograph.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And thus Lee wound up being too short.
Right.
So let's say that we want to scale this based on 15 or 17.
I did 17.
But let me go ahead and you got 11 here.
A foot and six.
There's 17 right there.
Okay, so that was perfect right there.
That's right there.
12 plus 5, that's 17.
So let's unlock this.
And we got to.
I take it you're basically also falsifying the length of the width of the paper in the photograph by showing it's more than 11 inches.
Yeah, I'm going on the higher end, of course.
Yeah.
you know, so you get the higher and the lower.
Okay, that's about good right there.
So we're measuring out about 17 inches.
Okay.
Oops.
And now we're going to go ahead, very important, set the scale.
Okay.
If you don't set the scale, it's not going to work.
So now we know that this particular one, and let's take out the other ones that we had.
Let's take out the other measurements that we had.
Okay, so we're left with just the militant, the paper.
17 inches.
Now, let's start with the rifle.
Keep going to the butt here and go all the way up here.
Okay.
I'll give it a take a little bit.
Maybe we can go a little bit more.
But now we're getting 3.6, 36 plus 6.
Right, uh, the markana the karkana was uh 40.
Uh, it was 40, right?
Uh, I think, or was it 42?
Well, that's okay.
So, this is three feet 36 plus six.
We're talking about 42 here now.
Let's see what we got here.
Okay.
These would be correct if the measurement were 17 inches.
Instead of 11.
Huh?
Instead of 11.
Right.
Unbelievable Measurement Discrepancies 00:04:10
So, in order, the height is about almost 5'10 here.
Okay.
The rifle 3.6.
Now, this is using the measurement of the 17 inches on the militant.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, in order to get this, More or less, which is, you know, would have been correct, the militants would have had to have been 17 inches.
Yeah.
We're talking about a difference of six inches completely.
And now that that paper was 11 inches.
They really mucked up.
So, anyway.
I just asked AI and said it's 40.2 inches, the rifle.
40.2.
Okay.
So it's a little long.
It's a little too long.
42.
Yeah.
Good.
Yeah.
I figured it was about 40.
So that's all, you know, a little, you know, a little fun here.
Good, good.
I love it, Larry.
I love it.
Outstanding, man.
Just mind.
And obviously, you know, verifying, you know, Jack's work, you know, how important that was.
If the backyard photos have been faked, obviously, you know, it was Roscoe White who stood in for those and, you know, in order to frame Lee Oswald.
Well, you're super positioned to show how muscular Roscoe was, overwhelmingly better built than Lee.
That's such a giveaway, Larry.
Oh, yeah.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
It just happens that Richard Hook had done it also previously, you know.
So, you know, all this, you know, points to the correct conclusion that it was Roscoe who stood in for.
And in talking with Ricky a couple of years ago, he told us that Roscoe had a dark room that he kept under lock and key all the time.
And one day, He forgot to lock the lock, and he went in there with his little brother, and they saw everything.
Okay.
So, just so you'll know.
D, thank you for joining us this evening.
Thank you for having me, guys.
And let me plug the books, the books, you know, merdist.com.
I think D received his.
I sure did.
Can you grab my book?
Yeah, okay, good.
I can show it to you.
You don't have to.
You know, there's a lot of great.
That's a big book.
And what is it, 1200 pages?
Close, well, they wow, they actually they weigh like uh four pounds.
All right, take a second, these could be considered a deadly weapon in a number of states if you hit them.
Yeah, you know, a lot of work that's eight years of work, and all the documents that you need are there.
You know, it's longer than that.
There's a lot of information in there.
You know, I've seen you do the video, uh.
Presentations on a lot of these things, or most of them, and uh, there's if yes, my favorites are the hero of the book, Luego Tierra's Menoyo, chapter two, and the second hero, uh, uh, uh, Orestes Peña, chapter four, his war with the brew was unbelievable, you know, and chapter 10, uh, Sylvia Duran, which we've done many times here, and of course, the David Sanchez Morales, chapter 12, you know,
just unbelievable information in there, all new.
Yeah, we've got all kinds of shows.
Go to the New JFK Show on YouTube and you can see hour long presentations on all this stuff.
All right, fellas, it's been a pleasure and an honor.
And this has been the New JFK Show.
And we'll see you next time.
All right.
Take care.
Okay, guys, I got to go.
Did I have to?
Got to watch.
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