REAL DEAL SPECIAL (8 April 2026) with Bill Binney & Katherine Horton UNDER FIRE!
Bill Binney and Jim Fetzer dissect the escalating Iran war, where Trump's threats allegedly triggered attacks on 24 Gulf refineries, while Binney dismisses mass casualty claims as CIA/Mossad exaggerations. They debate the petrodollar's collapse, potential Weimar-style inflation, and the danger of brain-computer interfaces enabling 60-minute human destruction. The discussion culminates in a call for a random-citizen constitutional convention to replace corrupt parties, framing current events as the first step toward global totalitarian automation. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Iran Regime Under Fire00:15:04
This is another real deal special where I'm delighted to host Bill Benny and Catherine Horton under fire.
Today, I have the pleasure of Bill back on this eighth day of April, 2026, and I'm very eager to get his take on the most recent developments with the war with Iran, including actually, since our last conversation, Trump's speech to the nation, I think.
That happened after our last bill, but we might have had a delay for a day.
Maybe we talked about that before.
But of course, his tweets, his plans to annihilate Iran, wipe a civilization off the face of Earth, stuff that was rather startling even to his most staunch supporters.
And Iran replied by saying that they were removing from targeting restrictions in the Gulf Coast, and they wound up hitting like 24 different refineries in the Gulf Coast.
Which seems to have led to Trump calling for the ceasefire.
How much of that is modified or not, we're finding out, but it appears there's something to it.
Bill, give us your take.
What the hell is going on?
Well, the way I looked at Trump, the way he did, I think he documents it in his book on, you know, where he talks about how to make a deal, how to make deals.
Yeah, the art of the deal.
Yeah, the art of the deal.
Yeah.
And where he talks about being extremely radical.
When you get a position where people don't want to move, you get extremely radical, just try to shake them out of their position.
I think that's what his technique is here.
At any rate, that seemed to have done that.
But then again, for the whole point there, whenever they announced that ceasefire, supposedly, they were going to have a ceasefire, the Iranians didn't stop at all.
They didn't have any ceasefire at all.
And now, I mean, the Israelis know what that means.
I mean, so that's why they're back there bombing them again.
So I can't see.
I don't really think that this is going to end until that regime goes and it goes and it has to be taken out by the people of Iran, not by us.
I mean, putting boots on the ground in there is a big mistake, in my view.
We should supply them with whatever they need to do it themselves because it's their country and they got to fix it.
And as far as we're concerned, we're going to stop them from being able to hurt anybody else, but they have to fix their problem themselves.
And as far as regime change goes, I don't see it.
I dare say the Iranian people, contrary to many Western statements, they're a greatly exaggerated dissatisfaction of the Iranian people with the Ayatollah and their, you know, theological, their Islamic Republic.
I think they're mostly happy with it, Bill.
We got those reports about the uprising, but they were like, What happened in Kiev in 2014?
It was a provocation.
That was a color revolution fomented by the United States.
They even brought in old Russian weapons to fire on people to make it look like Russia had to do with it.
This appears to be the CIA Mossad having generated a protest movement that you've heard numbers as high as 32,000 being killed, but that appears to be, you know, a gross exaggeration by the order of 10, that there might have been 3,000.
200, but they were, you know, they were provocateurs.
Starlink had provided them with computers that Chinese showed out at Trackham Towns and were able to round them up in relatively short order.
That's your cup of tea, of course, but I mean, my impression of what happened there is rather different.
It wasn't the Iranian government breaking down on genuine protesters, but it was a provocation intended.
And Trump seemed to have been sold a bill of guns by BB that.
If they only take out the leadership, that the people are going to rise up.
But of course, it had the opposite effect.
They've all consolidated around the administration.
And they had this succession all lined up.
I mean, if there were anything they anticipated, it would be that we're going to be decapitated from the top.
Your thoughts?
Well, you know, Jim, of course, we have some Iranian friends.
Yeah.
And they don't have that opinion at all.
They hate this regime.
And, you know, the feedback I get from, like I say, I listen to things like other bloggers and like 2CTV, which is an Iranian guy who's got, he takes videos and stuff from people in Iran and puts them on the air.
You can get it on Google if you go, I mean, on YouTube, if you go and look and search for 2CTV, T O U S I TV.
People take internally in Iran and get it out through, I guess, Starlink or some way, however they get it out.
And the feedback they're getting there is quite the opposite from what you're depicting it to be.
I mean, what you think it is, they're supporting the government, the vast majority are not.
There's a certain segment that do, yeah, but not the vast majority don't seem to be doing that.
And the only thing I can say is time will tell here what's going to happen if the people have the.
have the wherewithal and the guts and the integrity and fortitude to do it, they'll throw this government out.
And it's up to them to do that, though.
It's not up to us.
We shouldn't be taking that burden on.
I think probably the best we should do is help them out by, if anybody's out in the streets shooting at them, we should shoot them up.
That's not the extent of it.
We should stay out of it on the ground.
And the parties you're citing reside in Iran today.
Is that right?
Not people who fled when the Islamic.
Some fled, yeah.
But the others are those getting the videos out.
They live there, yeah.
Do you believe the war was legitimate or justified from the beginning?
I mean, you know.
I think it should have been.
We should have kicked their ass a hell of a long time ago after all that.
Stuff they've been killing, using, and assisting in death and killing our own people all over the Middle East.
See, I mean, those were Mossad false flag ops, like the.
No, no, these were IEDs and other kinds of actions that they were doing.
Yeah, they've been doing that for decades.
I don't know how many people we've lost, but nobody's kept count of them.
But it's through their proxies and through their own actions supporting people and the things that they've shot missiles at our people in bases.
I mean, we should have been at war with them a hell of a long time ago.
Now, to justify going to war with Iran would require satisfying one of three conditions if it's to be sanctioned under international law, namely that they had attacked us, which is not the case.
They already have.
They already have.
They've been doing it all along.
Yeah, but Bill, that wasn't an attack on the United States.
You're talking about.
People are people in bases overseas and places around the country.
Yeah.
Or sanctioned by the UN Security Council or posing an imminent threat.
I personally don't see any of those satisfied.
Now, you're saying you think the first was.
Well, but how about the imminent threat?
The imminent threat is them firing missiles at our bases.
That's our people, and that's an imminent threat.
And the UN isn't going to determine what we do, for Christ's sake.
They're as incompetent and corrupt as anything.
We should unfund the UN.
We're the ones basically paying for that organization.
It's a worthless piece of crap.
That place organized the NGOs around the world to help in the migration across the country during the Biden administration into this country, bringing people from all over the world.
They sponsored that kind of crap.
For that, we ought to kick them out of our country and say, we're out of the UN because it's a worthless piece of crap.
Well, there are a lot of people who share sentiments like that about the United Nations and feel it's outlived its usefulness.
And look what the health organization did with the COVID crap, the poison that they pumped into our people and mandated it to go in to get people internationally to say you have to have it to travel.
That was an unjustified inoculation that was never tested and going through the proper process.
They violated all the protocols, the longstanding protocols of how to manage a And this is the World Health Organization, sponsored by the UN.
They violated all of the longstanding principles of how to handle an infectious disease that has been developed by quarantining processes over hundreds of years.
Yes.
We certainly agree about this.
And they certainly violated also all of the standard scientific known principles about how to stop infectious diseases.
Masks work?
No, they don't.
Not against viruses, for God's sake.
They go, that's like trying to catch.
Trying to catch a ping pong ball with a hula hoop, you know, yeah, those things go right through a glass.
Oh, yeah, I agree, I agree completely.
Yeah, I've reported a lot on that over the years.
Yeah, you're absolutely right, Bill.
So, I think that in our international organization, while attended, well, initially it was intended to help develop peace throughout the world, that fell apart a long time ago.
That thing has been with us for many, many decades.
I agree getting us out of the WHO is a good move.
I applaud it.
Yeah.
And I do regard figures like Anthony Tausch and Bill Gates and Deborah Burks, not to mention Modura, the president of Pfizer, who said that the objective was to eliminate 50% of the world's population.
Bill.
Yeah.
Well, and just look at what they're now finding there's a direct correlation between, you know, those long tubular.
Structures they're pulling out of the bombing operations.
They're pulling out these very long tubular clots inside the vein.
Blood does.
It's a direct correlation to the COVID shot and the vaccines.
Oh, sure, of course.
Oh, 100%, no doubt about it.
That's exactly the rate that they have 100%.
Oh, yeah.
And those things only started appearing slowly in 2020, but slowly picked up in 2021.
That correlates directly with the shots.
I do agree 100% about all this.
It was an attempt at world's greatest mass murder.
Yeah, yeah.
Trouble is, I see Trump is committing something on a slightly smaller scale, wanting to take out 92 million people by wiping out Iran, by taking out the power stations and the bridges, which is going to be a calamity.
Well, he hasn't done it yet, and I hope he doesn't.
That would be a bad idea because he should aim at taking out the regime's people.
The people who are continuing to support that regime.
So, will you agree this would fall in the category of genocide, war crime, crime against humanity, violation of the Geneva Convention, human charter, international law, all the good stuff would be violated here?
I thought it was virtually insane that he made such statements.
You know, one JAG officer said actually it's a war crime just to make those assertions.
Well, I think he's playing that game of his, you know, His making a deal game.
That's what I think he's doing.
That's what I hope he's doing.
I hope he doesn't do this.
I don't think that's a good idea.
The problem being that what the Israelis are doing is the good idea.
They're the ones going after all the people supporting the regime.
You know, all the leadership and all the other organizations that are supporting the regime.
That's what the Israelis are going at.
And I think they're still doing that because they're not going to give up bombing because the.
The Iranians aren't, the IRGC isn't stopped shooting missiles.
So they didn't stop anything.
Yeah, I think Trump's threats led to the IRGC to withdraw its targeting restrictions, and they wound up hitting refineries all over the Gulf Coast countries, Bill.
They've hit at least 24 refineries now.
And I think it's going to set back gas and oil production years and going to have very adverse effects for the world economy.
Your thoughts?
Well, if they do succeed at that, yeah, it probably will have a bad effect.
But I think what's happening is not going to get to that point.
At least I hope it doesn't.
It's already happened.
Well, I think the oil prices are coming down a little bit.
Well, that's not for long, believe me.
That's a moron.
I guess, and here again, I think that the issue is time and having the time and show the exact result.
I think eventually they're not going to have anything to threaten anybody with.
So, and I, Iranians, yes.
So, if I said, by my understanding, they had 27 underground cities where they produce these missiles, that they virtually have an endless stockpile, that they really can do a whole lot more damage than they've done already, would that affect your thinking if that were true?
Tariffs And Economic Collapse00:03:21
Uh, no, because eventually, as I thought, the planning was to shut the access points to those underground facilities.
And just bury the missiles underground so they couldn't get them out.
Unfortunately, we don't know where they are.
I mean, you know, it's a nice thought, but if you've ever watched any of the sources, they have ways to find out, they have pretty good ways of finding out about where they are.
You know that as well as I do.
Well, Russia and China are both on the side of Iran.
I don't think that's very encouraging for Western prospects.
The Europeans are pretty upset by the whole thing.
The Iranians are offering the Europeans deals for transit if they pay in euros, and the rest of the world countries not affiliated with the US or Israel to transit and pay in Chinese won.
So I think the dollar, I think the metro dollar is.
Dead, Bill.
Your thoughts?
I mean, this has been the backbone of the American economy, really, basically, internationally, for 40 or 50 years now.
Well, I think, you know, but I think in the end, it doesn't really matter whether I don't think the whole oil business is going to go that way.
I think there's still a lot of countries going to stay with us.
But, you know, even so, if like China and Russia can go off on their own, they can have their own economy if they want to, because that That doesn't necessarily completely destroy the structure that we put in place because, after all, a quarter of the economy in the world is in the United States.
And another quarter is in Europe.
So that's half just in those two areas.
So I don't think, and if you want to succeed, the big markets are there to sell things.
That's where the big markets are.
And that's why the Chinese were so worried about Trump putting tariffs on.
If he put tariffs on them, they would destroy their economy.
I mean, I don't think it would destroy it.
We'd have a hard time, but I don't think it would destroy it completely, not like it would for China.
So you are inclined to think that tariffs are a good thing?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, certainly the other countries thought tariffs were a good thing.
They've been having them for decades.
They put them on us.
They certainly are good.
So why do you think it's good?
Because it helps them with their.
Their manufacturing money coming into their country, that kind of thing.
I mean, it's the same for us.
If we do the same, after all, before they had a federal income tax, the entire U.S. government was based on tariffs.
Yes.
A board out of the government.
We didn't have a federal income tax until the early 20th century.
Yeah, 2019, 2013, I think.
Yeah.
Get along pretty well before that.
Yep.
And if you looked at it, we don't need a Federal Reserve either.
If you go back to the Civil War, Lincoln financed it with the Greenback, which was simply a manufactured dollar by the U.S. government.
There was no debt, no interest on any debt.
Jack's Agenda And The Fed00:04:43
They just manufactured money.
So if they did that, we wouldn't have to pay any interest on any debt.
Of course, even Jack JFK thought it was absurd that the.
Government should pay interest to a private consortium bank for printing the currency of the United States when the Department of Treasury could do it just as well for nothing.
I mean, how absurd is that, Bill?
This has got to be the greatest scam in world history, right there.
The whole banking thing is a big scam.
They're creating money out of thin air.
You know, like my wife keeps telling me, every time you take a loan out to buy a house, it's just money created out of thin air.
Yeah.
So, you know.
I just said we should get rid of the Federal Reserve.
Get rid of it.
We don't need it.
I do agree 100%.
I think that was on Jack's agenda list and one of the reasons he was taken out.
Yeah.
Yeah, very likely.
There's too many people having such a high time on it, living on everybody else's labor and money.
But there were a multiplicity of others with stakes in the game, such as Israel, since he was opposing the acquisition of nuclear weapons.
And David Ben Gurion was furious.
Yeah.
He wanted to cut the old depletion allowance, which had upset the Texas oil guys.
He was.
Bobby was cracking down on organized crime, bringing more indictments and convictions than ever before.
Where while Edgar had sex dossiers on the members of Congress, the mob had one on Edgar.
Yeah.
Highly compromising photographs of it all.
Well, yeah, they knew he was a bit on the gay side.
But also, he was thinking of getting rid of CIA, too.
That was the big thing, I think.
Jack, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shattering it into a thousand pieces.
It's just like when they were going after Trump with that Russiagate, the only evidence I had was making me look back at CIA as the originator of it.
Yeah.
You know, the originator of the Goose Ever 2 and, you know, DC leaks, that kind of thing.
Supposed Russian agents and all that.
What?
Happy horseshit.
And of course, The Joint Chiefs threw in when he wanted to pull our forces out of Vietnam because they thought a stand had to be taken.
But it was really a triple whammy for them when he refused to invade Cuba, contrary to the unanimous recommendation when he went ahead and signed an above ground test ban treaty with the Soviet Union.
That was their unanimous opposition.
Now he's going to pull our force out of Vietnam where they thought a stand had to be taken against the expansion of international godless communism.
That's where we got that domino theory.
Which was complete nonsense.
It was rubbish.
The Vietnamese, for example, were fiercely nationalistic.
They weren't going to kowtow to China.
And China wasn't going to take Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.
They had a little war with China, right?
They had a little war with China.
The Chinese went down there and thought they were going to kick them out, and they got their nose bloodied.
Yes, As I recall.
And there were the anti Castro Cubans who just wanted revenge.
They thought Jack had betrayed them at the Bay of Pigs by not providing.
US Air Force support, but Jack had made it clear from the beginning there could be no ties directly to the US government.
So, but they were misled by CIA, which let them believe falsely Jack had betrayed him.
So we had quite a few, and then wanting to circumvent the Fed.
I actually have each of those groups putting up their own shooter bill.
I mean, that's really amazing how complex the operation was.
It's parallel to murder on the Orient Express, where everyone took their opportunity to stick in a knife.
I mean, it's amazing.
And yet, we're told a sole gunman who was actually standing in the doorway of the book's apostrophe when the motor came past.
I was supposed to have been responsible.
Bill, our American suckers and saps, what's the deal here?
Dumbing Down The Population00:02:20
How do we seem to be so credulous, so willing to believe?
I think that over the years, we've always been indoctrinated through the media that we were the good guys, you know?
We're the guys with the white hats.
So whatever we wanted to do was the right thing, and whatever that was, you know, it was a righteous cause.
And everybody should get behind it, you know?
And you need to trust your government because it's a good, we're the good guys and they'll do the good things.
And down through the years, we've done some bad things.
We've done some good things, but we've also done some bad things.
And I guess the problem is they've dumbed down the population to the extent where they're only listeners now and they obey, or they tend to obey.
Let's put it that way.
More than anything else, they tend to just accept.
It's like that.
You know, we talked about the sophist technique of repetition, of repeating a lie over and over again to get people to believe it.
It's the same kind of thing.
It's conditioning.
It's like Pavlov's dogs are being conditioned to believe something through repetition.
But there's a lot of other fallacious techniques, you know, that they can use, like, you know, appealing to pity or maybe arguing from the specific to the general.
The Congress does that a lot, or from the general to the specific, you know, those kinds of inverse relationships of arguments.
Both are fallacies in either direction.
So, you know, it's those kinds of things are the techniques that are being used.
And also at the same time, they're not really educating our people to think.
You know, at least when I went into school, I mean, I was in there trying to think of why does this work this way?
Why are things operating this way?
Why does this happen this way?
You know, I was thinking about things.
And they tended to say, you need to think.
And it was a question of thinking.
And as well as rote memory, not just rote memory, but thinking.
And that's been basically transformed into rote memory and feelings.
No thinking, just feelings.
COVID As A Depopulation Weapon00:03:21
And that means your population's been dumbed down.
And with a dumbed down population that isn't informed, that operates on emotion primarily, why, you know, you can manipulate them any way you want.
And I think that's what the establishment, the banks, and the conglomerate, the world global organization wants to do.
They want to dump down the population to the extent that they are manipulable and you could do anything you want to with them.
And they'll follow and do exactly what you say.
And to make it manageable, they got to reduce it by like 90% from 8 million to 500, from 8 billion to 500 million.
That's pretty drastic.
Yeah, well, I think there's a, I forget which company it was, had that plan that got compromised that they had that the United States was to go down to 100 million and I don't know.
There were projections by Deagle.
I think we were supposed to be down to like 68 million by the end of this past year.
I think it was.
We could check the projections.
Initially, it was down from 330 million to 100 million.
Then they revised again to even further down in the 60s.
Well, stunning stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it could be that's what that COVID crap was all about.
Oh, it was intended to be a mass depopulation.
And the problem is, they're still playing around with those damn viruses.
You know, they're still messing around with them to see how, you know, how they can make a biological weapon, basically.
Yes.
Yeah.
And the vaccine itself was a biological weapon.
The pandemic was all contrived and fabricated, but the vaccine, that was a whole other matter.
Yeah.
Very serious.
And my impression is DARPA was right in there pitching in its development bill.
I mean, can DARPA, our own defense research project agency, be involved in devising a weapon to kill masses of Americans?
Or anybody.
I mean, it's an inhumane thing to do.
I mean, that's crazy.
Who would want to do it?
Plus, you have no way of controlling it once it gets released.
Yes.
I mean, you could say the COVID 19 is a classic case.
It got out of the Wuhan lab and then came and ran around the world, and nobody could stop it.
Yes.
So, I mean, you know, you can go back to the Black Plague, you know, in the 13th century, right?
Or 14th century, right?
Yeah.
That went around the world, too.
So, and look at the influenza after World War I.
Yeah.
But that's how all of the techniques of controlling epidemics and infectious diseases were developed.
And they threw those out the window.
Fauci and company did that right from the beginning.
With this COVID crap.
And yet, that meant all the things that we've learned and developed over the years, hundreds of years, by experiencing things.
The Moon Landing Hoax00:04:12
Why?
They just threw that out and said, we're going to do something different.
And I think that was probably, they didn't really care how many people got the damn thing.
You know, they didn't really care.
They wanted to find out or something.
After all, he sponsored through his NIH funding to develop the thing in China.
Yeah, well, I mean, I have my view of people like that is they're able to, that's basically crimes of the highest magnitude, I tell you.
Yeah, I agree.
My impression went from Dietrich to Chapel Hill to Wuhan as a concealment to get it out of the country where the government would be less able to oversee what was happening.
That's exactly it.
There was no real, I mean, look at the lab they used.
It wasn't a very secure lab.
Yeah.
So, making up all the fantasies about its origin, Billy.
Do you know we got this Artemis 2 thing?
This appears to be a replay of the greatest hoax of history of the moon landings in 6970.
Can you believe it?
I don't know.
Didn't they say they had trouble with their toilet?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they've glossed over everything.
I mean, well, you're going to be able to tell when they come back if they had trouble with the toilet, aren't they?
Over 10 years ago, NASA.
Put out a public appeal offering a reward, I think it was $10,000, for assisting with their space poop problem.
They were observing the space diapers they had would only handle 14 hours of waste.
So I was observing, well, that's interesting because the Apollo trip took seven or eight days.
So what did they do?
They did 14 hours, proving the whole Apollo program was nothing but a gigantic pile of space poop.
Well,.
I think they're going to have a problem with it when they come back if that's the case.
You know?
Well, some speculate they're sitting on the International Space Station, if that's real, and that they did send an unmanned, you know, vehicle around the moon, which is not beyond the realm of possibility.
It's just we still haven't mastered the Randall radiation belt.
Still take five feet of lead to protect the astronauts, and it would be so massive and dense it couldn't get lift.
You couldn't get it off the ground.
Yeah, yeah.
The whole thing is ridiculous.
One of the many proofs we have about not having gone to the moon is that when you look at the photographs of Earth from the moon, it looks just like the moon from Earth.
But Earth is like 55 times larger than the moon.
So if you're taking a photograph of Earth from the moon, it ought to be huge.
It ought to fill the whole visual field.
But no, it's just as small, relatively speaking, as is the moon from Earth because they're taking a photo of the moon from Earth and colorizing it.
To turn the moon into Earth or an apparent image and Earth into moon, I mean, it's that bad, Bill.
I think I'd have to do some calculation to figure out what the relative sizes should be that you should see, but you can do that by knowing the distances, it's not that hard.
So, yeah, why I have a how we know we didn't go to the moon, and I give you images showing diagrammatically what it all looked like, and yeah, yeah, there's just no comparison, just no.
No comparison.
So I just can't believe they're trying to pull this gigantic hoax again.
And I don't know.
Do you have any impression of how widely it's believed?
Does anyone think we're actually, we've actually gone to the moon again or returning?
I mean, it's just, I'm just baffled.
Well, I don't know.
Government Fraud In Space Programs00:15:36
It's to keep up the scientific investment, I guess.
I guess I think keeping the, like I say, you know, I thought the best way to do it, if we're looking for.
For other living civilizations around the universe, we should do the technique, and they are doing SETI as anyway, the technique we developed in the SARC, which was to look for sine waves because those are properties of generated energy.
And that separates noise from energy, from generated energy.
And you could then say, oh, okay, this is generated by some living organism or something.
Such an elegant boost.
Love it.
Love it.
Yeah.
I love it.
It looks like our government doesn't actually want solutions to problems.
It wants more problems.
It's going to acquire more money to deal with unsuccessfully, Bill.
Well, and it also helps them build an organization, a larger organization, to be able to deal with the problems that they have, you know?
That's why they're objecting to reduction in force of the government.
They want to build a bigger government, not a smaller one.
That's the military industrial complex and the government bureaucrats who want that too.
They don't want to reduce size.
The more people they have, the more they can justify the stature of their position, and therefore the higher grades they get, the more money they make, and so on.
And then the biggest scam comes when they retire or they get out of government and move to private industry.
That's where they use the connection they have back in government.
They get contracts to those organizations.
I watch that in NSA happen all the time.
And they would bring people they had hired back or that worked for them and then retired, they'd bring them back in to try to bring them, to take them to a forward position in technology.
Well, those are the people that got you to where you are.
If you aren't satisfied to where you are, which they were, why do you bring the people back that got you where you are to take you anywhere further?
That's crazy.
They got you to where you are because they wanted to be there.
But they'd have no idea how to move forward beyond that.
You need to find the people who are objecting to the status quo, the ones who say this is the wrong way to do it, the ones who object, the ones who cause the irritations, the disruptions in your organization.
Those are the people who will advance your organization, not the bureaucrats that you've had all along.
They got you to where you are.
That was my objection from the beginning with the government.
Obama, when he put out that big data initiative back in 2012, trying to get industry When they tried to get industry to do programs that would develop algorithms that would allow them to go into massive amounts of data, figure out what their people should look at as important information to look at, they were saying they were outsourcing that problem to industry.
But the fundamental point was that that problem was an analytic problem that was built and was solved by analysis of the data that.
People in the government were doing for decades.
That was their whole job to figure out what intentions and capabilities the adversaries were doing by analyzing lots of data.
Industry didn't do that.
You know, that wasn't a function of industry.
It was the job to do that was an analytic job, not a computer programming or a, you know, engineering or something like that.
Those things could help and enable you by getting information and whipping and organizing information for you and things like that.
But the whole point of what you're figuring out what was going on was an analytic problem.
And the government lost track of that.
And they said they started outsourcing everything.
And now they've outsourced, as far as I know, they've outsourced the entire foundation.
That's why Edward Snowden could take all the data that he did because he was in control of it.
They outsourced the management of the data they analyzed, all of it.
So it was crazy.
So he had access to it all.
Isn't it?
I didn't figure any of it out.
I mean, that was done by analysts.
Isn't all the outsourcing a way of increasing the size of budget in an informal rather than a formal fashion?
And it's still going to require payment, right?
Yeah, that's right.
Sure.
Absolutely.
They're going to have a profit margin added on because they're private corporations.
That's right.
It's actually a way to rip off the American people for functions the government itself ought to be performing at lesser cost.
Well, see, that's why I said that the thin thread program I developed in NSA solved the volume velocity variety problem of the digital age.
But they went and spent tens of billions of dollars on other programs and canceled the one I had.
But they used the programs I had developed to manage the massive amounts of data they were getting, and they still are.
But they didn't have all the smarts I was going to put in because I didn't do that for them.
And the whole point was that that cost $3.2 million.
From beginning to end, to get it deployed to three stations.
2.3 million.
Now, instead of tens of billions over decades, and it's a continuing cost because they took, instead of doing smart selection, they did bulk collection, which meant they got everything in the world.
That meant they had to build bigger and bigger storage facilities, more and more expenses, more people to manage it, more people to analyze, more data to analyze.
And what it did was.
it degraded their capacity to succeed because what it meant was their analysts were buried in all kinds of data.
I mean, that's what Edward Snowden compromised some of the memos internally that the analysts were writing internally to the management in NSA, GCHQ, MI5, all of them.
They were saying that we're buried by too much data, overloaded, overburdened by overload, things like that.
They can't figure the threat out in advance.
MI5 said that.
I mean, so if your intelligence was supposed to develop threats and detect threats and intentions and capabilities before they happen, not after they happen, after they happen, that's a forensic job, that's a policing job, you know?
Yep.
So, but the whole government has turned everything around.
I mean, they've taken in everything in the world.
Sure, it's great after the fact.
You can find out everything you want to know about somebody because you've got it captured.
But you should do it beforehand.
And if there are smart ways to do that, and those people have thrown them all away.
I mean, I did one program where it developed, they went through a whole data set, a whole process, a whole domain of information to find terrorists, and they couldn't find it.
But I had devised an automated program.
I didn't document it, but I devised it to sort out and develop any new targets in that based on the database they had.
And I ran it through there.
and I found out I think it was about 800 new targets that they didn't even know about.
Yeah, I did that with a programmer in three months.
And you know, after that, you know what they did?
They said, oh, well, this is going to embarrass the fort.
This was a major agency, okay?
And so the deputy director of that agency said, this is going to embarrass the fort.
So we have to cancel that program.
So they canceled the program, deleted the data, got rid of the process and everything.
So they didn't have anything.
So, what's that tell you our government's interested?
That's a sabotaging Robert Function of government, for crying out loud.
Yeah, but that's what they did.
And there's, I mean, they're still doing it.
I mean, they're, I don't know.
I, you know, I just, I'm giving up basically on our government.
It's a worthless piece of crap, you know?
They don't do anything smart, that's for sure.
You know it from the inside bill, so you know how worthless.
Yeah, and I said, well, Forrest Gump may be worthless, but it's very expensive.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
Well, that's all they're interested in, living high and mighty.
But I meant, when you look at our government, Forrest Gump has it right.
Forrest Gump.
Stupid is, and stupid does.
Forrest Gump, indeed.
Yeah, I mean, that was so much to the point, that movie.
Yeah.
To the best of my knowledge, you're the one guy who could have done the most to improve the efficiency and functionality of our government bill, and you got shunted aside deliberately because it would have interfered with cost margins or people's prestige or embarrassed him.
To hell with that.
Let's get government going again.
Crying out loud.
Well, I mean, that's why I had so many people shooting at me, Jim.
I mean, everything I was doing, people who shoot at me, even before I started.
That's why they took, that's why they first they gave me the track vault vehicles and then they took them back because they knew I was dangerous, you know, from their perspective.
Because they had other programs, you know, they wanted the existing contracts to continue because that was their current money input, supply of money coming in for those contracts.
What I was doing was threatening those contracts because if I developed a new development, a program that could do things automatically, they didn't need all these other programs.
And so they conceived of me as a direct threat in every area.
And so that's why they did what they did.
So, I mean, I understand them for what they did.
It was all about money.
And I said that publicly that they traded the security of the people of the United States and the free world and everything for money.
I think that's exactly right, Bill.
Exactly right.
Yeah, unfortunately, that's still true.
What a pathetic history for the United States.
I mean, even after that, I mean, I went into, I got together with all the people that they didn't like because we got out of NSA, right?
And we were going to do, we said, okay, they don't want us working in government, so let's see what we can do in private.
See if we can't approach Social Security or something to try to solve Medicare, Medicaid fraud.
So, we had a get together of all the people who were doing that, and they were watching our monitoring our emails and phone calls and stuff.
So, they knew we were doing that, okay?
And so, after we did that, that was in February of 2007.
So, we got together and we're planning how we could approach Social Security and say, here's how you can get all of the fraud before you even pay the bill.
You can detect the fraud and say it's fraudulent and have it checked before you pay the bill.
What their process was, was to pay the bill, then afterward try to figure out what the fraud was, and then go back later and try to recover it.
And by that time, it's gone, you know?
And so we were saying, here's how you could do it before you pay the bill.
Do this and check them out before you pay anything, you know?
And so they had all the emails that we were sending back and forth about it and everything.
We had our meeting in February, and then that July, They raided us.
The FBI raided us.
The FBI?
Because they said they saw we were all together, right, at the restaurant.
Actually, it was the golf club restaurant.
Conspiracy, of course.
Yeah, this is where they charged us with a conspiracy.
We were getting conspiring.
They didn't say do what, but they knew we were.
Conspiring to save the government money, conspiring to improve efficiency, conspiring to make the government work better.
God knows.
FBI better investigate that, Bill.
But you see, they wanted to stop any further efforts of us doing anything, period.
Sure.
Anywhere.
You know?
And they eventually did it when we even went to the Netherlands to try it, too.
And over there, they stopped it over there.
So, you know, the Netherlands government getting more efficient in terms of cutting down on waste and fraud.
The Netherlands government.
Bill.
Yeah.
Bill.
I've always thought that the batch is among the most level headed people in the world, but.
Well, but their reach meant they had the reach to get over to the Netherlands to get that government and that organization to shut it down.
You know?
Because the organization we were working for also had branches in the United States.
So they had a vested interest in doing what they were told.
Yeah.
As did.
As did, I mean, we even had our one of the subcontracts we were working on for one of the agencies, the government, the primary contractor came to us and even told us that they were told that they did not want us working for them.
The U.S. government told them that.
And what was the explanation they gave for this?
They said, well, we obeyed.
They didn't give any explanation.
The American government didn't tell them why they didn't want you working for them?
They didn't, yeah, but they didn't do that.
They just said, we don't like these people working for you.
That's all they said.
And so, I mean, that's all he told us anyway.
But I told him, you know, that's a felony.
Interfering with the pursuit of happiness by the U.S. government is a felony.
And he said, Yeah, but I can't testify to that.
Because there's so much money involved.
So many contracts.
Yeah, but you were going to save a stunning.
You were probably going to save half of that.
Oh, much more than that.
More than half.
Bill!
More than half.
Of the entire budget of the U.S. government.
Staggering Corruption And Evil00:06:08
Yeah.
Yeah, but it's just staggering.
Yeah, they, plus detecting, I mean, Minneapolis, that fraud in Minneapolis, that could never have happened.
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Somali business and all that.
That's going on all over the country, and that could never happen.
You could pick it out, all of it, but they don't want to do that.
That's why I went on Truth Social and kind of ripped them a new one and said, well, this just proved that Trump, Gump was right.
Forrest Gump was right.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm on suit.
I'm on Truth Social saying that kind of stuff, but I laid out what they should be doing and they're not doing any of it.
I like you going on Truth Social and saying that.
That's good.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
Well, it's not a sad situation because we have, you know, I think a lot of people that Trump has in his, you know, his cabinet and so on are wanting to do some good things, but.
He didn't really understand the depth of the corruption in the government.
He didn't know the uh, when I left, I had one comment when I left this and walked out the doors in NSA.
I did that because the forces of evil were just too numerous, and they were not just at the top level, they were down five levels.
Yes, at least you know, I so I called that the cloning process.
You clone them into your your image, you clone everybody as they're coming in and and going up the grades.
And structure inside the organization of that agency, they get cloned into the thinking and how to think and how to operate and what to do, how you have a relationship with companies and so on, you know, and stuff like that.
It's just sick.
Anyway, I mean, it's the profundity of the corruption.
I mean, that's what's staggering, what boggles the mind.
Yep.
And, you know, of course, if you thought about it for a minute, at 9 11, when Hayden sent everybody out that wasn't necessary, almost the whole agency left.
What does that tell you?
You know, think about that for a minute.
Anyhow, he was right, wasn't he?
I mean, especially surveillance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I tried to do the right thing, but that is the ultimate objective, Bill, to survey everything we do every moment of our lives so they can control us completely, digitize the money, cut us off if we do anything they don't like, don't let us.
Buy products they don't want us to buy, yeah, whatever occasion they don't want us to speak.
I mean, and and and how is that tied into the 15 minute cities, which seems to me to be such a manifest absurdity?
I can't believe anyone takes it seriously, yeah.
I think, but if you if you think down the road quite a bit, uh, you know, maybe a maybe a hundred years or so, or maybe not quite that long, even uh, computer brain interface.
But they're developing.
If you extrapolate that down the road to everybody having a computer interface in their brain or a chip on their head embedded, the interface with the computers through 5G, 10G, or whatever it is coming up, you know, then down the road, you could just be another thing on the web.
And you could be manipulated electronically anywhere from anywhere in the world.
You do anything that they want you to.
So, I mean, I think that's a bad idea.
Well, if you have any concern for humanity, free people, self determination, life at all, responsibility.
Do you want to have a life or do you want to be another stamp that's sitting on the web?
Yeah.
It's just staggering, isn't it, where we come?
I mean, it's a pretty illustration of how technology can be used for good or for bad.
And it looks like Bad is predominating every time.
Yeah, well, unfortunately, those who are evil of mind tend to seek power more so than people who are good, you know?
Yes.
People who are good don't seek power over others.
Yes.
You know, so you have the evil people seeking power.
Yes.
And when that happens, why evil happens?
Wow.
What can be done, Bill?
Can anything be done?
Well, yeah, we just have to have a mass uprising.
We have to have an uprising saying, we're not going to do this shit.
You want this crap?
No, we're not doing it.
We have to say no and mean it.
We have to learn how to do that.
And for all the bums who are telling us in our government that we have to do it, we fire their asses.
No matter what the party.
Mass Uprising For Change00:07:01
In fact, I'm in favor of having a new way of electing people.
We should have an Article 5 of the Constitution that says we can have a constitutional convention outside of Washington with nobody from Washington, D.C. involved.
If we have 75% of the states, they get together and they can have it.
And they can ratify it.
They can make it the new Constitution.
That's a new way to operate government.
And what we could do is set up a new way of electing people to manage Washington.
Those are our managers in Washington, right?
The House and the Senate.
And the president.
And the new way could be random selection from the phone book or from the from the like.
We do it from jury duty, right from the from the uh, from the voter rolls.
Or we could set the criteria from why to do it, but do a random selection.
That way you get rid of political parties, you get rid of lobbies, you get rid of everybody who do they lobby, who does it?
You know who's going to be there next.
They don't know anyhow, that's one way of doing it, just random selection.
I mean, we couldn't do any worse than we've done.
Look at how many wars we've been in.
Look at our deck.
I do everything.
I mean, look at the crime.
Look at everything.
I mean, just a mess.
We could do a hell of a lot better, and we're not.
Anyhow, well, just to return to current events, I think that the petrodollar is gone forever and the consequences are going to be vast.
Your thoughts about just that one loss?
Well, that may be true, but we'll have to see.
I'm not sure how much of an effect it will have.
We may see a bipolar world where there is still a petrodollar in half the world.
It may not be completely gone, is what I'm saying.
And I think that there's a move to make it go away in certain countries.
I think that's probably going to succeed.
As far as the Strait of Hormuz is concerned in the Gulf Coast countries, I dare say the petrodollar is dead as could be.
Well, that's probably true because we don't really need that much oil from the rest of the world.
I think we import.
But it's propped up the American economy because the value of the dollar was because it was used for international transactions in oil.
Once Nixon took us off the gold standard, this was Kissinger's genius, which played out well for about 50 years, but here we are.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, you know, okay, but I suppose that happens.
What are they going to do with all the dollars they've got?
What's their option?
Oh, they're dumping them.
They're getting rid of them.
To whom?
Who's going to buy them?
Who's going to buy them if that happens?
The only option would be to buy American goods, right?
What else would they do with them if nobody would take them?
So you'd think there'd be a run on American goods with the dollars that otherwise have no value.
Roughly that's the idea, right?
Yeah.
Well, we could inflate the dollar out of, you know, do it like the Weimar Republic did.
And and get all those dollars back really quickly.
Would that do us any good?
Well, I think it would level the playing field in terms of finance again.
You know, don't you?
I mean, after all, we could, we would have.
Uh, we have a lot of oil here and gas, so we don't need the rest of the world for that.
We could exist on that energy alone.
Uh, the rest of the world, like in Europe and China, those are the ones and those are countries that need uh uh energy, the import.
They're the ones who really depend on that golf.
I'm not sure it would be that bad.
I don't know.
You seem to me to have a more positive outlook at this stage than do I myself.
Probably so.
I find that fascinating, Bill.
Utterly fascinating.
I mean, you've been through the ringer of trying to make government better only to be defeated again and again.
I mean, notwithstanding the brilliance of your plans, your proposal, and their efficacy, have they been implemented?
Yeah, yeah.
Go ahead.
They still could, but they're not.
Leads me to think the government is going to find a way to muck things up, even if there were a way out.
We're not going to take it.
You've offered many ways out, none of them were taken.
Let's put it this way, Jim.
What's their track record?
Pretty pissed.
What's their track record?
Their track record has picked a bad way out.
So, what would be the worst thing they could do, Bill?
What would be the worst thing they could do at this stage?
Well, I don't know.
I think it's continued to fall.
I see the real threat is coming with some of the stuff that they're doing with these databases and what's the name?
More databases, conserving more electricity and more fresh water.
Yeah, and this is happening all over the country.
The country is going to be drained of electricity and water.
Well, and like I see, that's through all of this process you've been talking about, it's going to destroy humanity.
Yeah.
You know, the way they're going is to destroy human existence.
Yeah.
As we know it anyway.
So there's the moral of the story of my conversation with Bill Benny today.
We got from destroying Iran to destroying humanity in 60 minutes, Bill.
I can't thank you enough, my friend.
It's wonderful.
I so enjoy our conversations.
Yeah.
Another episode with Bill Benny and Catherine Horton under fire.
Stand by for next week's report.
We'll see you then.
Bill, thank you.
Well, just think about that projection.
That's what I've been warning about.
This totalitarianism is just the first step, automation is the next step.
Then, you know, how we control all the brains in the world.