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July 31, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
57:33
Real Deal SPECIAL (30 July 2025): Bill Binney & Katherine Horton UNDER FIRE!
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Welcome to another real deal special session with Bill Benny and Catherine Horror, and where I'm just utterly delighted to have these opportunities now on a weekly basis to conduct these conversations with two of my favorite people on planet Earth.
And of course, there's so much going on out there.
Donald Trump seems to be in deep, deep trouble.
The Epstein files is a case where he's in a hole and he keeps digging.
He doesn't seem to have figured out how to work his way out of it.
And the mega movement, in my opinion, is being destroyed, being demolished as a consequence.
He's not settled any of the stupid wars.
He promised he'd resolve Ukraine overnight virtually, not a chance.
Now he's threatening Russia with more sanctions, secondary sanctions on countries that trade with Russia.
Mark my words, Putin is not impressed.
This is all ridiculous.
He's continued to support the slaughter in Gaza.
Now that, you know, is openly showing maps that don't have any Gaza, don't have any West Bank as a plan all along was to annex at all.
They just got to dispose of the bodies one way or another.
And Trump has even said that he'd be willing to bomb Iran again if Iran isn't cooperative.
It's just ludicrous.
I just want to get each of your preliminary reaction to the situation, Bill.
Let me begin with you.
What's your take on this Trump admin and its foreign policy, which appears to me to be a complete mess?
I wish he'd have somebody who's advising him, closely advising him that he trusts that could get him away from this bombing idea.
Yeah.
Let's stop bombing people and start.
I'm all for sanctions.
I mean, cut them off, sure.
But that's probably a better way of doing it.
It's not violent, you know?
And people won't, you know, we're not winning friends and influencing enemies around the world by bombing everybody.
Yeah, that's for sure.
But the sanctions aren't working either.
I mean, it's bricks is growing, brush is growing stronger, all these threats.
It's like he's the biggest bully on the block.
It's like he was using techniques that worked as a Queen's real estate developer, being thoggish on the international scene.
And it's not panning out.
Catherine, your thoughts?
I think it is panning out with the right people.
For example, he used his bully tactics, as you call them, on, for example, Ursula von der Leyen, the EU lady, right, to push through these trade deals, which are really amazing for the US for the first time.
And I have to say, I really loved it.
I absolutely loved it.
Ursula von der Leyen is widely hated in Germany because before she was promoted, a scum floats, as Bill would say, Ursula von der Leyen was promoted up and out of German politics because she was promoted from being a housewife and the mother to seven children to being the defense minister of Germany.
So her qualifications, right, were raising seven children.
She was appalling.
And the German Bundeswehr got really screwed every which way.
So she is hated in Germany, certainly by the Bundeswehr, by the German military.
And she, I think, is generally hated in the European Union as well.
So when Trump went over and strong-armed her, I loved it.
I loved it.
I have my reservations.
If the EU is going to be opened up to GMO food from the US, that's quite horrifying.
Or, you know, pick up trucks that are too wide for our roads and have an atrocious safety standard that doesn't quite measure up to European standards.
That's bad too.
But hey, this can be fixed.
But overall, I thought he did a good job.
Also, didn't he just force Thailand and Cambodia to come to a ceasefire recently?
So I think he's genuinely trying to use trade and tariffs and sanctions to try to move the world into a better place.
Also, look at, I think it was just today when the State Department issued sanctions against the Supreme Court judge who was blocking the Brazilian guy from running for office.
I forgot the Supreme Court judge's name.
It's been Venezuela.
Oh, Venezuela?
Sorry.
I forgot if it was Brazil or Venezuela.
Sorry, it's not my experience.
But either way, sanctions were being used to try to break this sort of judicial corruption in other countries.
And it has been like a wildfire across the world where they try to remove political opponents by judicial means.
It happened in France with Marine Le Pen.
It's now happening in Latin America.
It happened here in the US where they were trying to imprison Trump.
And yes, I think he is genuinely trying.
But also, let's not forget that Russia is a superpower.
So, you know, the fact that he couldn't get Ukraine done in a day after the cabal literally did their utmost, including Victoria Newman herself, they did their worst for decades there, right?
And now Trump can't solve it in a day.
Well, I'm still with Trump.
I think he'll get there.
What do you think?
Well, he could have cut off the weapons, the flow of weapons and money, and it would have been resolved very, very fast.
But let me ask you this.
Colonel McGregor says about this tariff agreement, Ursula van der Leyden and all that, 15%.
He says there has to be an under-the-table understanding that the U.S. is going to continue the war in Ukraine.
Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense.
And the risk of ending the war, or much less Russia becoming a part of NATO, which Putin at one time very naively thought might even be a distant prospect, is it leaves them with no enemy.
It leaves them with no need for NATO.
It leaves them no need for the military complex and the vast expenditures.
Bill, don't you agree?
They want Russia as an enemy.
Well, they have to have somebody who's a credible threat.
Yeah.
You have to have a credible threat.
Nobody's a credible threat except the Russians because they've got over 5,000 nuclear weapons.
Yeah.
But they don't have any designs on the West.
All they want to do is settle the situation in Ukraine.
I mean, Putin's been very clear about that from the beginning.
And I thought it would have been fairly easy right away if they'd have invited Russia to join NATO.
There wouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, but the point is no more need for NATO.
And then why would we spend all that money on weapons?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Also, let's remember that regarding NATO, I haven't looked up the total funding numbers yet, but Trump just convinced the European countries to spend even more money on NATO.
Now, the targeting program that Bill and I are in, the remote controlled torture program with microchips and directed energy weapons, is a NATO program.
So by forcing the European NATO countries to spend more, what Trump automatically did is double, quadruple, increase the number of targeted individuals tenfold, because that's where all the money is going.
There are no sensible wars for NATO to fight.
So this whole concept of spending this astronomical sum of money year on year, where the hell does it go?
There are no public audits.
I think if they ever audited NATO, they would find it's very much like the Pentagon.
They can't balance their books and money just keeps being stolen left, right, and center for black murder projects against the civilian population.
So I am in favor of bringing all this to a head and actually showing how ridiculous this whole NATO concept is in the modern world.
I think I remember that Putin even applied for NATO membership at one time, right?
And yeah, they didn't allow him in because we wouldn't have a boogeyman, you know?
And I think what we really have to do globally is realize the only enemies we jointly have are the weapons manufacturers, really, and the cabal, which is driving China into this ludicrous surveillance state, new world order, cubed.
So I think we only have one enemy around the world, and that's the central banks and the cabal that run the central banks and own all the weapons companies.
And we have to fight them in China and in Europe and in the US.
That's what I think.
Well, what's your assessment of how Trump's handling the Epstein vials issue?
It's a calamity for him and for Mega.
Go ahead, Catherine.
You remember last week when my homework was to go through that Katie Johnson, I think.
Now, under the video, so two things.
So just to recap for your viewers, I thought that this woman called Katie Johnson was lying.
And I started going through it.
I have my notes started where I go minute by minute and I point out all the micro expressions, body language cues that I personally, as a complete amateur, think indicate her lying.
It starts off pretty much in the first sentence where she's almost asking like, oh, yes, I used to work for Epstein.
And then it turns into this typical question mark, like she's lying.
Am I saying it right?
Epstein?
So anyway, I still maintain this woman is lying.
And next week, when I have my notes completed, I'll get it to you.
What happened is that I spent, I agreed to help a victim in the UK who currently has a targeted individual who has a court case running.
And I agreed to help him on Friday.
And I said, I'm going to spend the weekend working on your case.
And I spent four days and four nights being pain tortured.
So they heated and pain tortured the top right of my skull for two days where I was bedridden.
I couldn't stand up from pain.
I couldn't get out of bed.
And then they switched and tortured for two days the top left.
So I basically spent four days.
That's why I'm a bit pale and out of it because I basically spent four days and four nights being tortured and having to change cold packs to just be able to cope with my chips being superheated.
So anyway, that's, you know, this was basically my, my dog ate my homework.
Was this because they didn't want you working on his case?
I mean, I think so.
Because it came immediately the next day at 10 a.m. in the morning.
They started my torture Saturday morning, 10 a.m.
And they stopped my torture today, Tuesday morning at 10 a.m.
So it was exactly four days and four nights to the minute.
So, and it is basically so that I don't submit an expert after David Fuller's court case, but it doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter.
You know, they can delay things, but they cannot stop us.
So anyway, so just to explain why I haven't done my homework.
That's okay.
You know, one of the things I wanted to say regarding the Epstein files, given, and I will prove it really, that this Katie Johnson person is lying.
Also, below the bit shoot link that you sent me, there were two screenshots of articles where it claimed that she was exposed as a fraud and she was exposed as a liar and that she had also her, I think she had some payments from somebody to basically put on this skit.
But if the whole Katie Johnson case seemed to be a newspaper article that was screenshotted and included in the comments, which seemed to have said this whole Katie Johnson thing is made up and it never was anything.
She couldn't prove anything.
So anyway, I just saw the comments, you know, later on.
That's one thing.
The other thing is I still haven't found anything corroborating the other child molestation or child rape accusation cases that this one website claimed were settled.
So basically it's just a picture and the allegations.
But as soon as I find some more, I will look into that.
But if I'm right and the Katie Johnson thing is a fraud, then the fact that they're trying so hard to smear Trump as a child rapist kind of implies the whole thing is humbug.
Because if it weren't, they couldn't just pull out his real control file.
So I don't know.
I still maintain that Trump isn't into kids at all.
And all this shit is just yet another smear.
But stay tuned.
Did you look at any of the photographs of what appear to be different tromps?
I mean, I've had it.
No, I was still in recovery.
Did you look at those?
No, not yet.
No.
But I haven't, but I shall.
But it is an issue for presidents to have body dubles.
Putin has several.
There's a Podgy Putin.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've also sent you an article retrieved by the Wayback Machine that the real Trump Donald Jay may have died in 1989 during a helicopter crash.
And it's a very disturbing article.
It looks to me quite credible and lays out a conflict he had with then-Mayor Ed Koch over a skating rink, an ice skating rink in Central Park, where when Trump put up Trump Towers, he had a view of Central Park and the only eyesore was his skating rink.
So he offered to develop it and wanted to operate it.
And the mayor was very ticked off.
He said, he'd be glad to take the money, but no chance.
And he even leaked his sarcastic letter ridiculing Trump to the press and then was humiliated when the public sided with Trump and wanted him to do it.
And he wound up doing it.
And the article suggests, and actually I find this all too plausible, that he retaliated by giving him, swapping out his chopper to one that had a defect.
And the chopper went down and killed Trump and three of his casino execs.
He had three body doubles at the time.
And it appears because of the value of the Trump brand and the real estate that his death would have had a devastating blow.
So they maintained the appearance of his continuing to be alive.
And that's why we have different, you'll see now I have a photo of the real Trump with Ivana, his first wife, a photo of what appears to be one of his doubles with Marla Maples.
And then the other, the more recent guy we know so well with Melania.
And I was sent that by a reader and others have said they look like three different guys.
And I think she's got it right.
So that's also on your homework list.
That's also on your homework list.
Did you get to see those pictures?
No, I saw your item, but I didn't get the chance to look at it.
They're in the updated, the updated version.
This doppelganger on my blog at JamesH.
Fetzer.
But I've sent them to you.
They're in the links.
I mean, if she's using body dubles, it would explain how the hell he gets so much work done because he seems to be sleeping consistently three hours and being performed.
Right.
But, you know, that would make me feel better because I'm like, hang on, I'm half his age.
I think he's resting in peace, Catherine, but I get it.
I get it.
Yeah, let's look into this because also imagine it.
I watch it.
You guys are so good.
I just think this would be perfect group for your meal.
I think we should look into it because on the one hand, crazier stuff has been known to have been done in the past, right?
But on the other hand, also, usually this whole thing of running body doobles and then keeping up appearances of something that requires, you know, the media to play along, the intelligence agencies to play along.
And the reason why I find it unlikely in Trump's case that the real Trump is dead is because why would they possibly come up with a fake Trump and then screw themselves as hard as they could?
Do you see what I mean?
Like at the moment, what's happening, the exposure that the intelligence community is getting, all these mean bastards from Clappet to Comey to what's the other guy called?
Brennan, right?
All these mean motherfuckers are getting shafted.
And they are really high up in the Masons and in the cabal hierarchy, right?
They were leaders of intelligence agencies.
They're like proper serial killer-grade psychopaths and they are being cut loose.
Also it seems.
So I don't find it plausible that a fake made-up Trump would do that because a fake made-up Trump would have to work together with the media and the intelligence agency so closely not to have his fakeness exposed.
So I find it hard to believe, but I have to keep neutral and look at the evidence.
Well, bear in mind, Catherine, for four years, we had a Biden cadaver.
This wasn't the real job.
What I mean, crazier things have happened.
I mean, give me a break, you know, and you'd think everyone would have blown the whistle there.
For four effing years, we had this guy in the White House.
He wasn't remotely like the real guy.
You know, when I mentioned, I went back, I found earlier where he was addressing a crowd, and he was very articulate, very expressive.
He used his hands a lot, just as do I. Totally unlike this guy we had for four years.
No affect, no expression, no gestures.
And they have different shape and size of skull.
They have different handwriting, different signatures.
We know for a certainty these were two different guys.
And yet they got away with it.
And it contradicts, you know, all the points you're making about the, because the media actually were in on it.
I mean, they were participating.
But Biden was so far up the cabal's backside.
I mean, he did it all.
He was in with Ukraine.
He had illicit money from Romania, which, by the way, the money comes from NATO because Romania doesn't have money to pay the Bidens.
So, you know, this guy was right in the cabal's backside, you know?
And Biden did nothing to expose the cabal, well, apart from his own bumbling, right?
And his family's bumbling.
But Trump is a different animal.
I mean, he's like a wrecking ball to everything that the cabal stands for.
So I think there are two different things, but still, we have to look at the forensics.
That's why we'd like to get into it.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
I was saying that that's why we'd like to get into the get to tell Trump how he can get them all.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, but you are frustrated once again.
I mean, I know.
It's like my trying to correct a Wikipedia false claims about scholars.
They wouldn't let me do it.
And finally, I got in a direct contact and said, you're not going to let me do it, are you?
And said, no.
Because every time I made the correction, they reverted to the false claim.
I mean, yeah.
You know what?
The way to, as my great uncle used to say, there's no point reacting emotionally.
You just have to sue them.
So just document the email exchange or the phone calls you had with Wikipedia or whatever you had, and just make a lasting entry online about just how fraudulent they are.
Yeah.
They're all recorded because they have an archive, you know, every change that's made.
And you had me making five changes and being reverted every single time.
So not the only.
I mean, you know.
You had a claim on your Wikipedia page that you admitted that you were wrong about Russia Gate, wasn't it?
Wasn't that?
They said I changed my mind.
Yeah.
No, I didn't.
I have not known you to change your mind.
You know, I'm pretty well cemented in my position once I know that I have the facts lined up and I don't see any other facts, except I see opinions, which I claim are just like body parts.
Everybody's got them, you know?
Yeah.
And they're about as meaningful.
Then they're not worth meaningful worth.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Rushing is making a resurgence, though.
You know, I mean, Trump's going after Obama by way of Russia gate, even though the experts are saying it was more a Hillary op.
And I think it was more a Hillary op.
But Brennan was involved, Comey.
He had, you know, Peter Strzok and the gal he was having the affair with, Lisa.
Read Lisa Page?
Yes.
Actually, a very important footnote that I think everybody missed.
In the text message exchange between Peter Strzzok and Lisa Page, she reminds him that he has a secret society meeting that evening that he has to go to.
That's one of the text messages.
And everybody asked which secret society that would be.
Love it.
Well, you know, but Brennan was a key figure in there, too.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Bill, I think they might get you back before Congress to talk about this.
I think it's going so far that.
There's too many people in Congress who are involved in this.
They want to maintain plausible deniability.
So I go down there.
They can't have that.
There are way too many involved in the Epsteins, child trafficking, scandal.
Oh, it's like Senator Kennedy said, you know, 90% of Congress should be making our license plates.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What a good guy.
I was closer to 100%, but, you know, 90 is pretty good.
Senator from Louisiana who has a wise sense of humor.
I like the guy.
You guys think that they're just dragging it out until the midterms because they know that they would be arresting so many people that we would have to wait until the midterms and get a CD replacement?
Well, and they're desperate to stop Trump from succeeding at anything before the midterms.
Yeah.
Well, I think because of the Epstein files, GOP is going to lose 40 or 50 seats in the House.
It's going to be a slaughter.
And I don't think there's a damn thing they can do about it now.
I mean, if he had been transparent about everything, JFK 9-11, what a wonderful idea to release all the 9-11 files.
But man, oh man, that's going to be disastrous.
Dick Cheney was running the op from an underground bunker bonita White House.
And of course, Umert and Bibi Net were the brains behind it.
It had completed the neocons and the DOD.
CIA was adding his bit.
Mossad was right in there pitching.
That is a monster, a monster.
Yeah.
Don't forget MI6.
I think they should have also an honorary mention in all this.
They never lived out.
Yes, absolutely.
But I think, you know, also, the GOP might lose a bunch of pedophiles, but remember, these would be the rhinos.
The reason why rhinos are rhinos is because they have a control file.
The cabal has them by the balls one way or another.
And the pedophile stuff is one of the last few remaining control files.
The other ones are even more horrible.
It only leaves bestiality and necrophilia, really, as viable control files.
And some have those too, you know?
Maybe.
There's no maybe about it statistically.
I mean, I said a long while ago while I was still in the UK, I said, guys, unless we start pulling back the curtain and start finding these people with nasty control files, we haven't finished the job of draining the swamp.
And if you think about it, these days being on drugs is not a control file.
Cavorting with prostitutes is just another afternoon in DC.
Cheating on your wives is nothing.
Being gay is thankfully not a control file either, right?
Having gay sex with, you know, bread boys is just normal, right?
So what is left as a viable control file?
And it's really only these things like pedophilia, murder, bestiality, and necrophilia.
That's it.
That's it.
Being trans, not a control file is dead fashionable, right?
It gets you to the top of the DEI hiring.
Not anymore.
Right.
So unless we actually find these people with these unsavory predilections and get rid of them, we will not have drained the swamp.
So I just welcome the 9-11 and the Epstein stuff.
Get rid of the bastards.
It's not like a country of 320 million people would be short of replacements.
Now you got Donald Trump describing Weeby Nutania, who is the greatest man in the world.
Can you believe that?
Well, Donald Trump has described, and this is, I personally humbly submit that that is just his way of making deals.
He also described how he got along phenomenally with, you know, the North Korean guy, Kim Jong-un, or whichever one it is right now.
So that's just what he does.
But he also slips.
I mean, he's not holding back.
I think right now he's throwing who?
Thomas Massey got thrown under the bus.
The other guy, Grassley, is being thrown under the bus today.
He has no problem, you know, as a good executive.
He will pivot on a dime and he will throw them under the bus.
Massey's always been a critic of Trump, though.
Massey is maybe the single most outstanding member in Congress, in my judgment, got more integrity than the rest of them put together.
And Grassley crossed Trump, too, over, I don't recall if it was 9-11 in this case, but Grassley turns out to be a good guy, too.
Trump is getting rid of the-I think it's because Grassley let the Democrats block all the judicial nominations.
And also the Nancy Pelosi insider trading business.
I think that's what Trump tweeted today, that he was blocking them, trying to go after Nancy Pelosi for her insider trading.
And somebody, I think it was, what's that guy's name?
The guy who runs under Cat Turt on Untrue Social.
I forgot his real name, but anyway, he was tweeting that, you know, Nancy Pelosi makes Bernie Madoff look like an amateur.
Sure.
And I think it's very accurate.
I agree.
You know, the techniques I was talking about to them about how to fix the place also would have picked up Bernie Madolph and all his operational, all the areas he was operating from.
Yes, but the problem is that it would have also picked up Nancy Pelosi.
Nancy Pelosi, yeah.
That's fine.
We're never going to do this program.
That's it.
I've been told, it's very clear to me, I can't do anything here.
That's right.
The higher ups won't do it because he would expose them.
And they know which side of their bread is butter.
You probably wouldn't have exposed a full Intel committee.
It gets back to the, well, yeah, well, everybody, you know, geez, I mean, all those people on the intelligence committees, you know, judicial committees, all of them.
Yeah.
I mean, whatever they were doing, like Barr, you know, I mean, not Barr, but the previous chief of the CISI, the North Carolina senator.
What's his name?
Oh, God.
Yeah.
Can't even think of his name.
At any rate, I talked to him in 2002 about what was going on.
And he, you know how he told me then?
Well, we all know that NSA is really messed up, but now is not the time to fix it.
Too close to 9-11, you know, fear of another attack.
You don't want to fix something that'll stop an attack.
You want to let it go because you don't want to mess with it.
You'll be blamed, you know, and all that.
We can't take responsibility.
Yeah, all that.
What did he do over the next 25 years about the NSA?
Right.
What you didn't appreciate is there's never a time to fix it.
I mean, I knew I was lost when he said that.
Okay.
It was clear to me the guy's a bureaucrat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think I sometimes wonder why they are not moving faster.
And I think there are several facts.
I still maintain that the amount of stuff that the Trump team has gotten done, because it's not just Trump, it's Tulsi Gabbard and all the others, right?
It is so easy when good things happen to just take that in your stride and get really upset about the stuff that still has to be done.
But I just like to remind everybody, where would we be if Trump hadn't been elected?
Yeah.
Because it's always easy to say, okay, where are we compared to the perfect ideal standard?
We are far short from that.
We fall far short from that.
But where are we given the realistic alternative?
We would have been stuck with Kamala Frickin Harris and her word salads.
Like no trade deals, trade deals, right?
America would have been screwed.
It would have been shafted by all the other 200 WhatsApp countries.
I think even Trinidad and Tobago would have outsmarted the United States, right?
So I think we're still doing amazingly, amazingly well, guys.
It was a concerned effort to bankrupt the country to make it fail.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I called it treason from the beginning.
Yeah.
You know?
And also that's from, I mean, Jim, you said something important.
The MAGA movement is being broken up.
I think we are in the high seas right now.
We're being, our little ship is being tossed and, you know, tossed around by the big waves.
But still, MAGA is make America great again.
It's not a four-year project.
It can't be just tied to one person.
It's going to be a big movement.
We already have to think about what are we going to do after Trump.
And there's a way to handle that.
Yes, there is right.
Same.
Bill, share, share, share.
I'm interested in your thoughts too about a third party and a must talk about an American party.
I've been intrigued by the idea.
I'd like your thoughts about it too.
Go for it.
Well, on a third party, I don't know that any third party has really gotten any traction in this country.
You know, I mean, we've already got the Libertarians and the Greens, I think, and a couple others.
They're not really getting traction.
Right.
But with big money behind it, which I mean.
Yeah.
Well, maybe, maybe that'll work.
I don't know.
It hasn't worked to date.
Okay.
Yes.
Yes.
What I don't like is that the only person who could possibly pull it off would be Elon Musk putting a lot of money behind it.
And that money would come from the military industrial complex because his companies are the front of the cabal, their green agenda, and the military industrial complex, okay?
Rockets, electric cars, robots, brain-computer interfaces, right?
That's them.
Also, Elon Musk quoted the motto of the Freemasons the day after the election.
Novus Ordo Seclorum is literally what he tweeted on November 6th.
So that guy is a Freemason, which means he's a crown agent.
Now, if a Crown agent forms a third party, I don't think it's for the benefit of the U.S. I think it's to bring the Republicans who want a republic back into the fold of the crown.
That's my view.
And this is what I worry about, because you are right.
Elon Musk could pull it off, but it would be Elon Musk and his cronies pulling it off.
And that scares me.
It really does.
I don't trust the bastards threatened and I can throw him.
Now, without any doubt, the world is turning against Israel and the genocide.
I see signs all over the place, many different countries, all kinds of objections.
And the U.S., I'm sorry to say, is being held culpable because we're facilitating.
So what do we do about it?
It seems to me Trump is such a stooja baby that he's supporting it rather than opposing it.
The United States has lost its way among the community of nations.
We have no moral authority residual to affect the course of events.
I think we lost all of that with Obama.
With Obama.
Yeah.
I mean, he bombed everybody.
I mean, he killed even U.S. citizens in other countries.
Yes, but Obama was still a...
right, in Chicago, who has a tranny wife, right?
Wife, he is not a big guy in the cabal.
He's not the top of the Crown Corporation.
He's a puppet and it suited them at the time to use a black man.
It was just an agenda point.
He's just the front.
Now, the people behind him, yes, did all that, started all these wars.
But if I may humbly submit, I think America got screwed when it allowed double citizens to become members of the State Department and of the government in general.
How many double Israeli, you know, Mossad U.S. citizens do you have up there?
How many lobbyists?
How many lobbyists and all that?
So that has to be outlawed.
It has to be America first and it should be for Americans.
I had a proposal once that didn't go very far.
I was saying we should look at public service in Congress and various political positions as a straightforward public position that we don't vote for.
We do a random selection from the population depending on a certain criteria.
We set the criteria, look at the population of U.S. citizens and randomly pick from it.
I can design the program to do that.
That way, who do you lobby?
I know who's going to get people who want to fix things, right?
Because you're getting the common people, or most of them anyway.
Most of them will.
And you'll get people who don't want to get out and kill people, most of them anyway.
And so we won't get into any nose foreign wars.
Think about it.
And you won't have political parties to fund.
You won't need them anymore.
Think about it.
I thought about it.
I've got two objections.
Number one, you said, who would you lobby?
I would love to the guy who builds the random generator people, right?
Number one, point failure.
Number two, I like the idea of random appointments when it's the baby boomer generation, not the silent generation, when it includes millennials in Gen Z, most of whom can't read cursive and can barely read and write.
Yeah, that has to be built into the criteria.
Well, I'm not.
You can do those things.
I would like to see the candidate.
Look at me, get rid of all the politicians.
No more petrified politicians in Washington.
They're gone.
They're gone.
I had a more modest web post on the very first political speech I ever gave at a Ron Paul Freedom Rally on the steps of grass outside the Capitol on April 15th in 2008, where I gave a talk that would be published under 9-11 in the Neocon Agenda, where I said, dual citizens should never be allowed in decision-making or policy-shaping positions because you cannot know that their loyalty to the other state doesn't outlaw their loyalty to the United States.
So if we could only implement that, we'd be miles ahead because Israel wouldn't be running our government.
I agree.
I agree.
I also doubt if, well, first of all, I doubt if foreign agents are being registered the way they should be.
And second of all, any foreign agent registration should be public.
We the people should know who the foreign agents are, not some secret organization within CIA.
I think the last president who proposed that got a couple bullets in the head in Dallas.
For his good thoughts.
His good words.
You know, that's another thing, actually, because having just the president move the agenda forward is putting the president in danger, be that JSK, be that Trump, be that whoever.
So going forward, we the people have to come up with new ways whereby we the people can seriously move the agenda instead of having to rely on one person who's surrounded by a handful of people, two-thirds of whom are most likely intel plants, if you add in the advisors.
So we have to come up with human systems whereby we the people have more power.
For example, to underline what I mean, right now, the way the accounting is done is that there are, you know, accounting officers who try to balance the budget, blah, blah, blah.
But Catherine Austin Sitz had a program whereby all the government accounts from the local state to the federal level would be made public lives.
So you could literally watch your local council or your state buy a pencil.
Now, when you have that, you certainly have potentially up to 320 million people or more watching a couple of thousand people.
You invert the pyramid where the many are watching the few lives.
And then you only need a mechanism by which you can, we the people can sue the representatives if they mishandle the money, right?
Outside what's permissible.
So as soon as you can invert the pyramid and make the many watch the few, you get the resilient system.
For example, this could be translated to the election system if every voter could look up how their serial number of vote was actually counted.
Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Independent, whatever, right?
At the moment, the many have to trust the few.
If all this would be scanned, every vote would be scanned and uploaded to a website.
And after voting, you could go home.
It will still be anonymous.
Only you know your serial number.
But you could go to a website and say, oh, how did they count serial number one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight?
And you would say, oh, hang on.
They counted it as Democrat.
My original that they took a copy of says Republican or vice versa.
I can go and sue them.
So as soon as you have these sort of systems, the many watch the few.
And that's what we really need if we don't want our president to run around with the threat of a bullet to his head all the time.
Too late.
Well, not yet.
Not yet.
Gotta stop the future stuff.
Yeah, that's actually one of the things Bill and I really would like to.
That's why we try to get through the Secret Service because I'm absolutely convinced they have no idea about directed energy weapons.
And I'm 100% sure that the FBI and the military industrial complex are never going to tell them the truth, the full truth and nothing but the truth.
And we'll just tell them that, hey, your projectees could be shot in the head silently and you won't even know what hit them or where the shot came from.
Right.
Right.
Absolutely.
Well, the Democratic Party has been revived by the Epstein scandal.
They're making a lot of waves.
I mean, they were really still.
They were a function of the past in the early days of the Trump admin, but they're back.
They're surging.
His poll numbers are dropping dramatically.
Even in relation to immigration, it's gone from like 65% in favor down to like 35%.
It's been stunning.
And this is pretty much across the board.
Yeah.
He has been losing standing with the public, and it is reviving the Democrats.
They're going wild.
The speeches in the past were perfunctory, didn't have any substance, but now they got real issues.
You know, it's like I've said in the past, why aren't they now impeaching him over real issues when they've impeached him in the past for non-real issues?
But they're not doing it.
I think they may after the midterm.
I think it's going to happen.
Well, one of the things that's interesting, though, is that throughout the tenure of President Otto Penn, they were silent about the Epstein files.
And now, by a little speech where Trump said, oh, why don't we just move on?
Why are we talking about this creep?
That set off the Democrats.
And since that day, they have not shut up about the Epstein files.
Isn't it a genius ploy to get the Democrats themselves to be barking full volume for the Epstein files?
Because I maintain, I don't think Trump's in them.
And many people have said that.
Victoria Geoffrey, for example, the one witness, she said that, you know, Trump had nothing to do with it.
She worked at Mar-a-Lago, by the way.
That's what came out yesterday.
And she got poached.
And, you know, but she had never any complaints at Mar-a-Lago.
You know, she never said anything against Trump.
So I think it's actually a genius way to kind of, you know, push a little bit into the opposite direction and have the pushback, right, roll over you and have the Epstein files fully declassified.
She said, right?
Go ahead.
I was saying, wasn't it Comey's daughter who was handling the Epstein case in the DOJ?
And she got fired?
Yeah, but some of the things that Trump came out and said he still favored releasing all of the legitimate papers for the Epstein case.
Oh, the credible.
See, but that introduced me to the credible.
Yeah.
Well, the point is, are they finding fabricated material in there that that was the reason she got fired?
Yeah.
So far as I can tell, that was purely political.
And she actually had a competent job to the best of my knowledge.
Well, I mean, she was Comey's daughter, first of all.
That was it.
That was it.
I don't think there was more.
Well, he's had it for on there for a couple of months.
He could have fired her right in the beginning.
Sure.
So, I mean, if it was political, get rid of her right away.
That's what Obama did.
He got rid of all the Republicans, right?
And every U.S. attorney save one, I think, Southern District, if I'm not mistaken.
They already controlled it.
So, you know, I did have to fire.
But everyone else, everyone else, all of them.
What a catastrophe.
Yeah, but I think slowly it's moving in the right direction.
I mean, I have not done any research into James Comey's wife, but you, okay, let's back up a bit.
By the time you become the director of the FBI, it might come as a surprise to most people, you actually have to prove yourself as a ruthless serial killer.
You have to have taken part in child sacrifice.
That is just how it is.
You don't become the chief of MI6 or MI5 or the FBI or the CIA in the olden days without being part of the cabal and having a strong control file.
Comey himself is the guy who just delivered the newest Crown Corporation kill order against President Trump, which I remind everybody is still active.
Now, do I believe his daughter is the, you know, the epitome of virtue?
That was shit.
I think in the best case scenario, she could only be considered innocent if people can show she is an MK Ultra mind-controlled slave who's been just doing her daddy's bidding because she got sodomized when she was six months old, right?
Because that's just how the cabal works.
The reality of it is this whole disgusting pedophile, MK-Ultra, trauma-based mind-control thing is what they do.
These people, and another thing that they do is they fabricate shit.
I mean, that's what Russia Gate is about.
That's what they did against us.
They fabricated evidence and tried to charge us with espionage, you know?
Yeah.
Didn't they fabricate stuff against you?
We found it.
You know, I found it and spread it around and said, I'm going to, I threatened them on the phone calling Tom Drake when his phone was tapped by the FBI.
I was telling Tom that they were going to indict us.
Our lawyer told us that.
He was called and said, we're going to be indicted.
And so I called Tom and I said, well, here's all the evidence I have of malicious prosecution on the part of the Department of Justice of the United States.
And they're fabricating, making up evidence.
And so, and not talking to people who could testify to things.
They ignored them because they wouldn't spin the yarn that they were, you know?
And so when I did that, I hung the phone up, knowing I was pulling a chain of the FBI to go tell the DOJ what's going to happen.
Because they were tapping.
The evidence was on the phone.
So they knew what I was talking about and they knew it was true.
And they knew I had it because I had all the stuff.
They took all our shit.
We got it back in about three days.
We had it all back because we were backed up.
In other countries.
10 places around the world at least, Jim.
Lucky.
Oh, it was planning, Jim.
Yeah.
Planning.
Right.
Right.
Very good.
You know, the people you're dealing with, it's planning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you got, what, letters of immunity?
Yeah, they just all of a sudden offered us letters of immunity.
Without your lawyer having asked for them.
He didn't know what happened.
What do you think about this get Spain thing?
Having her come testify for immunity, for a pardon, for clemency.
I mean, this is happening all out in public in front of God and everybody.
It's obvious witness tampering.
I cannot believe it's so blatant.
But it is a standard operating procedure.
And one of the things that I'm trying to tell the targeted individuals and those people who are finding out that they are targeted individuals is that once you know their standard operating procedure, you expect them to do the next thing in the textbook.
So you are not sidelined when they sabotage your car, break into your home and try to steal your evidence.
You expect it because that's just what they do.
So similarly, fabricating documents, they would be idiots not to try that against Trump.
So we have to expect it at some level.
And then the question is, how can you tell apart fabricated documents from fake, from real ones?
Well, it has to match up with some evidence somewhere, flight logs, victim testimonies of victims that haven't been murdered yet, and so on and so on.
And I do know of the program that CIA ran that got rid of all of the problems in that 9-11 event and all the threats from al-Qaeda worldwide.
They had a program that was very targeted.
They went after them and took them out.
All of them.
That's why we were safe.
None of this other bullshit.
But they never ran into the secret.
They never talked about it publicly, but that's what they did.
They took them out and they did a good job.
It's like the Secret Service with Jack's trip to Texas.
They said there wasn't a threat within 50 miles of Dallas.
Yeah.
No threat to the president within 50 miles.
Well, I'm just saying we, for example, knew the entire Al-Qaeda network worldwide before 9-11.
Yeah.
Well, but the thing is that I don't think you were ever allowed to map the terrorist network within the CIA, were you?
No, but that's what we're proposing.
Yes, that's the missing bit because 9-11, right, as we've just discussed, I think, off-camera before we start.
I mean, it won't be hard to do.
It won't be difficult at all.
Yeah.
In fact, it's basically done already.
Yeah.
They just don't know it.
Or they do and fear it.
So they're going to try to suppress it.
I mean, you know, and that's why I think many people have to move simultaneously, because if one person, if only you move, if only Trump moves, if only Tulsi Gabbard moves, these people will be assassinated.
But if the whole of the Secret Service, the integral part of the SBI and Trump and Tulsi Gabbard and some foreign counterparts who are also of integrity move simultaneously, the deep state can be crushed amazingly quickly, I think.
Because there are not that many people at the top.
That's ultimately why.
There are not that many people at the top and their skull is just as resistant or not against a bullet.
That's what it comes down to in this war.
I'm not proposing I'm going to shoot anybody.
People with brick heads or something.
Well, yeah, but you know, the CIA could.
The CIA does every day.
They kill people every day, but the problem is they never kill the right people.
You know, they never kill the biggest criminal bastards, but they could.
So anybody could take control of CIA and slip them on a dime because, at the end of the day, they're black ops people are psychopaths too.
They don't give a shit, they have no emotions.
They kill whoever they are paid to kill.
It's just that the good guys don't tend to run hit squads.
But we could.
I'm joking.
I'm with we, I don't mean.
Well, you're no longer a good guy, but I get it.
Yeah, I know.
But the thing is, this is war.
I mean, people, I was tortured for the last four days and four nights, and I could have easily died.
Meanwhile, while this interview is going on, a drone just shot the wall opposite.
I'm not sure if you heard it.
You were talking at the time.
Bill, Jim, you heard impact sounds over my head in previous interviews, right?
Yeah.
We could be killed by these bastards, by this U.S. Air Force drone or Lockheed Martin drone above our house any moment.
They would have no problem.
So at some point in this war, the good guys have to understand, yes, this is a war, even when the weapons are silent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And when a government acts in self-defense, yes, you have to take out some high-level intelligence agents.
Yes, yes, yes.
Then it's morally justifiable.
So then you aren't becoming a bad guy.
Yeah.
Becoming a good guy with a gun.
Yeah, exactly.
And also, when the good guys with guns don't use them, it's basically the vulnerable who die.
Any clemency to the perpetrator is ultimate punishment to the victims.
So, hey, I'm not saying that Trump should go dark, but I'm saying that the least they could do is move quicker administratively and be aware that the only way to win against the deep state is if we all move together at high speed.
But it will also have to include people abroad moving at the same time.
So Trump has to get onto convincing NATO to stop the torture program and convincing the European countries.
Hungary would be a good start.
I got gunned to hell in Hungary.
They did even worse things to me in Hungary when I was there.
And I'm an ethnic Hungarian.
But Hungary would be a good place to start to join the clear out of the deep state.
I think it's happening, Jim.
I know you're going through a phase where you're doubting Trump, but just hold on.
Yeah, I was just going to say, you got a tad more confidence in this guy than do I, but I do.
I don't believe the shooting was fake.
And really, I've seen, I have tracked the intel agencies try to kill him.
I've seen the fuckers and the bleachers behind him, you know, ducking too early.
I saw how they used the horse to coordinate the whole thing, the horse rider right there, you know.
So, no, these people are genuinely out to kill Trump.
They are not kidding.
And the fact that they tried to kill Trump are trying to kill Trump still is showing me that he is the best shot we have.
I really believe so.
What do you say?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Just a face, Jim.
Just trust me on this one.
What is it?
Trust but verify?
Trust but verify.
All right.
I'll do my homework.
Yeah, I can't wait for you to look at this stuff I've been sending you because there are multiple Trumps.
This is a fact.
You won't be able to deny it.
And the story about him having died in a helicopter crash in 1989 looks to me totally plausible.
So I want your opinion about that.
And I'm going to see if I can get to the author of the Intel Drop story for the substantiation, you know, the loss settlement and get that to you as well.
So we can see whether this story is elaborate fabrication or whether it has any substance.
Because I agree with you.
We don't want to be plagued one way or another.
Yeah, yeah.
We'll find out.
There's enough evidence.
We can always tell the difference.
It might take long, but we will always get there in the end.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe it's time to look at time and difference.
Yeah.
Well, I'm still holding out.
So much good stuff has happened.
And let's just remember where we would be without Trump, right?
Yes, yes.
No, Kamala would have been a complete disaster.
I get it.
I agree.
Yeah, with or without Body Doobles, she would have been a disaster.
Totally, totally, totally.
Well, it's always a joy having these conversations.
And we got much, much more.
And I hope you're not going to be hit again between now and then, Catherine, because there's a lot on your plate, homework-wise.
And you got a professor here who's looking for a student to do her thing with high expectations.
Bill, always a pleasure and a joy.
You guys are wonderful.
Good talking to you, Jim.
Thank you so much.
Jim Fetzer, thanking Catherine Horton and Bill Benny for another sensational real deal special report.
Back next week.
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