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July 26, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
01:56:39
The Raw Deal (25 July 2025) with co-host Paul from CA and special guest Sofia Smallstorm
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I need someone I was young, so much younger than today.
I never needed anybody's help in any way.
But now these days are gone, I'm not so self-assured.
I finally find a gentleman and open up the doors.
Help me if you can, I'm feeling down.
And I do appreciate you being around.
Help me get my feet back on the ground.
Won't you please, please help me?
Well, this is Jim Petzer, your host on The Raw Deal, right here on Revolution Radio Studio B this 25th day of July 2024, joined by co-host Paul Hove, Paula, California.
Alex Jones even is declaring Trump is in on the Epstein story.
Cover up.
This is significant because Trump has been sitting off the page.
So him saying, don't look at it.
Don't talk about it.
The whole thing makes no sense.
It is a disaster.
But because of integrity issues, I can't sit here and play along with it.
And all the evidence points towards.
So recently, Alex Jones went on the Tin Dillon show and talked about Trump's role in the Epstein story cover-up.
He gets into what he thinks the ramifications are for the Trump administration, why he's continuing to talk about this issue, and where he thinks the evidence really does point to.
He's one of the most interesting analysts of these types of stories, whether you like him or hate them.
So let's get his take on this.
Please like the video and subscribe to the channel.
It is interesting to see that this administration is starting to spin out of control.
It feels like that.
Yeah, that's a good way to see it.
The first five months or so, it was like almost perfectly on track for what.
And then it just started going sideways.
And now it's moving very quickly the wrong direction.
And I have no interest in them failing.
My God, the Democrats are literally trying to put me in prison and suing me.
And all this, I mean, it's like my lifeboat I'm in is Trump.
And then he's poking holes in the bottom of the boat.
And then I don't want to be enemies with Susie Wils.
I don't want to be enemies.
And I can tell you a lot more.
I mean, I've had the White House call up and be like, the last week, what do you want?
Yeah.
I'm like, oh, you think I'm doing all this just to get something?
I've never asked for anything.
I want you to do what you were elected to do.
Yeah.
So it went from, you're bad.
We're going to have our influencers attack you two weeks ago to what calls Alex.
Yeah.
Isn't that interesting?
And it sounds like he's not the only one that got that kind of call from the White House, by the way.
It sounds like the White House reached out to influencers like Charlie Kirk and other people that are close to Trump and asked the same thing.
Hey, stop talking about this.
But this is a child sex trafficking ring and probably connected to an intelligence operation, maybe a foreign intelligence operation, maybe an Israeli foreign intelligence operation.
So of course, we're not going to stop talking about it.
I'm glad.
Maybe an Israeli foreign intelligence operation, Paul.
What could be more obvious?
As Wayne has declared that Jeffrey's alive and well in Israel and continuing to blackmail American politicians, this has to be the most successful Mossad Ob in history.
Your thoughts, Paul?
Well, Trump said it's a hoax, right?
Or he said it was started by the Dems.
So, you know, hey, we got to take him at his word.
I mean, he's my president, right?
You know, I also have doubts that the White House calls Alex Jones and asks him, well, what do you want us to do?
You know, I think that's a lot of more blather on his part.
I saw a great video the other night.
You know, it was basically a compilation of Jones clips going back 20 plus years of all the essential shilling he's done for Israel and the Jews.
But I will say this, far more interesting.
We don't have to talk about it.
I don't really mean to bring it up, but I was just made aware last night by a friend of show, a friend of yours and mine, Chicago Brew, who sent me a link to your website with an article about is the real Trump?
Has he been replaced?
And I got to tell you, I need to look at more photos for sure, but the ones that I saw, the ears are certainly different.
And also some of the other facial features look a little different.
And so the question becomes, what sort of world are we living in?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul, let me tell you, I went back and looked at him on with Letterman, for example, and he was taller.
He was more slender.
His manner was completely different.
He was a soft voice.
He was understated.
He was diplomatic.
He was very polite.
He was humorous.
Completely different persona.
And if you go through that article, you'll find that the Millennium Report has looked at just dozens and dozens of these videos.
They've concluded it's as though it's a completely different person.
His height today, by the way, and he and Letterman were about the same height, about 6'3.
He's much shorter today.
He's like the height of Macron.
I'd say about 5'10, somewhere in that vicinity.
It appears to me it cannot be the same person.
And by the way, I would say, this might explain why he's so naive about this stuff, saying he didn't do these things, because he, the president, embodiment of Trump, did not do it.
That was the real Donald Trump, who is a completely different person.
So I think it's fascinating how these things are adding up.
I agree we can do much more, but the years are different.
I have done a lot of research in this area, including, for example, Hillary's use of body doubles.
She's had at least eight.
One of them, by the Way was used for her debates, her national debates against Bernie Sanders back in 2016 and against Donald Trump on the national stage.
It was a smaller, thinner, healthier version of Hillary, far more attractive.
I mean, the reasons were obvious.
And I've done all this work on the death of Paul McCartney.
I put it off and put it off because I couldn't take it seriously.
Finally, I was forced to look at it.
And it turns out that Paul McCartney actually died in 1966.
He was replaced by a fellow I regard as an even better musicians.
The Beatles actually introduced him in the Sergeant Pepper Alabama as the one and only Billy Shears, William Shepherd.
He's four inches taller.
He has different teeth, a different palate.
I was impressed when an Italian forensic scientist set off to disprove the hypothesis and wound up confirming it.
And anyone who's shocked, and believe me, this is one of the most controversial issues I deal with in terms of audience reaction.
Go to my blog, jameshfecher.org, and check out the article, Why Ringo's Confession, We Replace Paul, appears to be authentic, and you'll have all the evidence there.
I think you'll be blown away.
Plus, during my 2020 Pulse Flag and Conspiracy Conference, Paul, I did a presentation called Deception Galore, where I not only talked about Hillary's use of various body doubles, but that the guy who's in the Oval Office for four years as Joe Biden was the real Joe Biden.
They had a different shape and size of skull.
They had different handwriting.
They had different manners.
I went back and looked at an earlier video of Joe Biden like around 2007 addressing an audience.
And he was very animated, very expressive, very articulate, uses his hands and gestures a lot, as do I, compared to the guy in the Oval Office four years who was virtually a walking cadaver.
He had no affect, no expression, seldom, if ever, used his hands at all.
It was inarticulate.
I mean, they were completely different people.
So this happens even on a major scale.
So I like that you looked at it, Paul.
Give me further thoughts.
Well, what's amazing about you and probably fairly unique is all the roads you will go down the minute something is mentioned because you have such a comprehensive knowledge.
And of course, you've actually done the work and put the time in.
Again, you are unique in that way.
And I think everybody, you know, enjoys some of the, like I said, the travels that you take them on.
And again, you know, it just jives with what I've always been saying for as long as you've known me, right?
Which is it's all theater.
And of course, these people are not just actors, they're characters.
I mean, when I saw that about Trump, now, of course, I already knew about Biden and Hillary.
You know, your work on that, in my opinion, is definitive.
Okay.
And, you know, but I hadn't really considered Trump, although a few years ago, I believe I brought to your attention, I saw a couple photos of, I believe it was in the paper, maybe it was an article online, of somebody that I thought did not quite look like Trump, but they were putting out pictures of, you know, the president.
And I thought, is there another guy, a double?
But anyway, like I said, what I looked at on your site is, in my opinion, fairly conclusive.
I do want to look at more photos, you know, for sure, but I'm already a believer.
And it's perfectly suited for what they do, which is to give us characters, people that aren't real, and then provide all the drama around those characters so that we waste all our time on that.
And it's just, well, like I said, it's the world in which we live.
I'm just tickled that blue tipped you off to that blog.
And, you know, it fits a timeline, it seemed to me.
The real Donald Trump and Jevly began their relationship, their romance, in like 1987, went to 2003.
Jevly described it as for 10 years.
It was Donald Trump's closest friend, Michael Wolfe, who was Trump's biographer.
He added, by the way, that Trump was functionally illiterate.
Functionally illiterate.
Very, very disturbing.
The real Donald Trump.
The real Donald Trump.
Yeah.
I find that hard to believe considering some of the academic institutions he went to, but go on.
Well, I'll agree with that.
And believe me, when I watched him on Letterman, I was just kind of blown away because the guy was subtle.
He was modest.
He was modest.
I mean, what trait could more distinguish someone from the present guy than the fact that he's so arrogant and self-centered and narcissistic?
The Trump on with Letterman was quite the opposite.
I was very impressed with him, unlike the present occupant.
And it seemed to me it explained so much about his reluctance to deal with this Epstein stuff because he wasn't there.
He didn't actually do it.
He wasn't the guy who was having sex with these underage girls.
And by the way, Paul, another, you know, dark aspect of this is more and more photos are merging of Trump with a Vlonca.
And if you listen to some of the witnesses, you know, were victims, like Katie Johnson, she said Trump liked her in a blonde wig because he said his daughter was also 13 and she reminded him of his daughter.
Now, here's a 13-year-old he's about to have sex with, and he likes the fact that she reminds him of his daughter.
And we got new photographs where Ivanka is sitting on her father's lap.
There are a whole lot of these where she's looking at him in a decidedly undaughterly fashion.
I tell you, Paul, I Find this stuff very disturbing.
My wife, now, on the contrary, was insisting that Trump had had Ivanka years ago, and I just denied it.
I thought it was ridiculous.
But now, I'm sorry to say, I'm starting to believe it too.
I mean, it's really repulsive.
Well, sometimes women can be intuitive about those things.
And yeah, I mean, the shots I used to see of his daughter, she's, you know, no doubt about the fact she was quite attractive.
And, you know, who knows?
I mean, you're in the same house all the time or you're in the proximity.
It's just, again, nothing surprises me about this sort of stuff anymore.
So you're talking at this point of the real Donald Trump, the real Donald Trump and his real daughter.
So what I guess we would all love to know is at what point and when did this character come in and where is the real Donald Trump?
Is he still, you know, hanging out in Manhattan or is he at Mar-a-Lago?
I mean, who's the one at Mar-a-Lago?
I mean, I think he's dead.
Really?
Yeah, it had to be between 2003 and 2016, you know, when he was in the elevator.
Somewhere in there, the replacement took place.
As best I can.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
I was going to say, you don't think maybe he was another disappearing thing like Jeffrey Epstein, where he just decides to go live another life?
I mean, that's one of the things that they do, by the way, when they replace some of these people or they have these fake events as people disappear.
State of the Nation has a story suggesting he died in a helicopter accident or non-accident.
Fascinating.
Yeah.
Wouldn't you just love to know the truth?
Wouldn't that be the documentary to blow all the other documentaries out of the waters covering the real truth about all this?
The Clintons, Hillary, Biden, Trump, you know, basically the replacements, the doubles, the real story about all of it.
It would be just absolutely fascinating to me.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you're on it.
I mean, look, this story is not going away.
It's spun out of control.
You got the Speaker of the House, you know, putting off a vote in order to have a research, but the committees are issuing subpoenas.
In other words, Trump and the Speaker are no longer able to control it.
And now we had, of course, the deputy director of the Department of Justice questioning Gaslene Maxwell.
And it turns out we got a report about it right here, that she answered every question.
She didn't take the fifth.
Totally responsive.
Here's what we have in the write-up from Yahoo News.
Gaslene Maxwell answered every single question put to her by Department of Justice officials, her attorney said.
David Oscar Marcus briefly spoke to reporters outside a Florida courthouse after the disgrace British socialite was grilled during a meeting with Federal Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche on Thursday yesterday.
Marcus did not take questions, but said Maxwell never declined to answer and did not invoke any privilege during the meeting.
Prior to the meeting, he said the team was looking forward to a productive day.
It appears they got it.
Blanch did not address questions, more specific questions about it.
Following the meeting, the Deputy Attorney General later posted on X, today I met with Guess Lane Maxwell, and I will continue my interview of her tomorrow, which of course would be today.
The Department of De Justice will share additional information about what we learned at the appropriate time.
Now, the ship is going down, and I think self-reservation is going to lead a lot of officials to do their proper duty because they don't want to go down with a ship.
And I think it's so far out of control.
It's a calamity.
You have experts predicting the GOB is going to take a bloodbath in the midterm as many as 40 to 50 seats lost in the House.
And I believe it, Paul.
This is so awful.
Well, it makes sense with the sort of operations they've done in the past where, you know, I can say probably, I don't know, maybe for the first time in recent history that I remember, we've had a president who is doing some things that he promised and essentially has the support of a lot of the American public.
And so why not just tank it?
You know, I mean, this is the kind of thing that they do.
And again, it's a combination of, well, what do we call it?
Learned helplessness, humiliation ritual, whatever.
Provide the hero.
And then, of course, bring him down.
He wasn't as popular.
Excuse me.
He's more popular than Nixon, but they did this to Nixon and they began to do it with Bill Clinton.
He made it through that whole thing.
But essentially, I think that's kind of the things that they like to do when there's somebody that's popular.
As you recall, Clinton was quite popular.
And so why not undermine him?
And that's essentially what they're doing with Trump, even though you and I both know that Trump is pretty much a fraud and has many, many flaws, you know, the ones that we know about.
But at the same time, as you have covered, he was overwhelmingly elected in both elections.
And so, yeah, let's tank that and get what it is they want.
They want this kind of chaos.
I believe that's what they seek.
Well, Henry May got a published, please republish by The Truth Seeker, which is an excellent website.
Trump tries to change the subject.
And it shows a photo of him with Obama.
And now we're going to tell those brainwashed clowns that we're investigating you.
And Obama's laughing.
So what does Henry say?
No one wants to admit the obvious.
Trump is a Mossad asset, leading genocide in Gaza and war with Iran.
But the Trump steam files have another dimension.
Through his modeling agency, Trump was engaged in sex trafficking of Eastern European girls to wealthy U.S. businessmen.
Epstein pipped these children to potentially thousands of prominent businessmen.
Can you see the problem?
The Epstein files are like a brothel madam's appointment book.
These young girls would be attracted by dreams of becoming a supermodel, only to be prostituted and exploited financially.
Trump was not just a pedophile.
He was a pimp.
This is a tragedy because Trump is leading a national revival that is saving the U.S. from communist destruction.
My heart leapt when I saw he defunded NBR, which is communist propaganda, as well as withdrew from the World Health Organization and UNESCO.
Clearly, the best attainable outcome would be for Vance to replace Trump, who is a gangster.
There are already signs that Trump suspects Vance's loyalty.
Paul, your thoughts.
Wow.
Yeah.
I don't know what else can be said besides that article.
I mean, like I said, what a world that we live in and what a mess.
And I'm sure it's a great disappointment already to a lot of the American people, the so-called MAGA base that was supportive of Trump.
And again, I assert that this is what they want.
And, you know, I've always said for a long time, and you've heard me say it many times, that there's no political solution to our current situation.
I mean, things are going to continue to deteriorate and made worse for the average American worker, the average American consumer.
And I don't see a pleasant outcome.
Yeah, Paul, give me more.
Trump launches campaign to remove Representative Massey.
This is so despicable, Paul, to remove Representative Massey over Epstein File Bush in defiance on the spending bill because he didn't support the big, beautiful bill.
But I think Thomas Massey is one of the few members of Congress with integrity.
He, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Jim Jordan, a few others.
On July 22nd, Trump attacked Representative Thomas Massey on Truth Social, calling him the worst Republican congressman and an embarrassment to Kentucky.
That was no stray insult.
Trump is recruiting a primary challenger and says he plans a campaign in Kentucky to remove Massey from office.
Paul, this is so bad.
I have such admiration for Massey, and this is so contemptible of Trump.
Another paragraph.
The breaking point was Epstein, not just policy.
Massey filed a discharge petition to force a vote on releasing all unclassified files to Jeffrey Epstein Trafficking Network.
Flight logs, phone records, case files.
Speaker Mike Johnson abruptly shut down the House for summer recess before the vote could happen.
Massey said the move was meant to keep everybody else in line.
Of course, no doubt.
Your thoughts?
Well, as I've already stated, and again, it's just, you know, it's complete speculation here, but I think you can see where my curiosity would come from is exactly what apparatus is at work here.
In other words, what group of people, you know, what production company, I mean, is this a CIA in combination with other elements of the military and the Pentagon?
Are they running the show?
Are they giving us these fake people?
Because, I mean, you have to start reading these articles now, in my opinion, as the imposter Donald Trump, the fake Donald Trump said this or that about Massey, so on and so forth.
And I'm sure you've read some of the same articles I read about this big, beautiful bill and exactly what it means.
And there's a lot of aspects of it are quite foreboding.
So they're, again, they're always trying to essentially demonize people that stand up for the average American or the average American worker or consumer, what have you, the average citizen, to oppose this giant government corporation international, the world economic takeover.
I mean, essentially, globalism in a nutshell, if you want to use one word.
And that's what's occurring.
This big, beautiful bill, along with so many other things, the last few years, is just greasing the skids for essentially a one-world economic technocratic control system, surveillance control grid where everybody's going to be digitally recognized.
And it's just, again, in my opinion, unless the American people really get some backbone and start opposing a lot of this with violent reaction, these people are going to accomplish their goals and their aims because they've been accomplishing them for the last, you know, what, 20, 30 years minimum.
These people have never developed and they have never used a nuclear weapon.
So why would they start now?
The United States is the only country in all of world history to ever drop a nuke on anyone, and we did it twice.
And you know, for some strange reason, I just, I can't quite put my finger on it, but for some reason, I'm just more inclined to believe the president of Iran right now than I am to believe our own pedophilic, disgusting government.
I don't know.
I'm just more inclined to believe him than I am to believe Benjamin Netanyahu or anyone at NATO or the European Union or anyone in your state legislature.
And I wonder why that might be.
Well, maybe it's because the president of Iran isn't the guy who's lied to us for over 40 years, telling us that we're on the cusp of nuclear war and that the Jews are just one bad day away from being Holocausted and wiped off the face of the planet.
And The only way that we can make it stop is to send thousands of Americans to their deaths.
The president of Iran didn't take us to war with Iraq.
The president of Iran didn't slaughter thousands of American citizens on 9-11 so he could start a war of Israeli territorial expansion on the other side of the world.
No, Israel did that.
America did that.
The U.S.-Israeli government, really just one and the same at this point, is the number one leading state sponsor of terror on planet Earth.
They love death.
They love destruction.
They love it more than they love life.
Sorry to say it, I think that's a exact point.
Paul, thank you.
Paul, we'll be right back.
Thank you.
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And now we return you to your host.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, it's a great pleasure to continue my conversation with Sophia Smallstorm about JFK, his personal life.
There are aspects here that are utterly astonishing for those who have not ever delved into the darker side of Camelot.
Sophia, welcome back.
I can't wait to hear your latest installment.
Well, Jim, I'm just reading books, all right?
Books, and I'm reacting like anybody might react to what I'm reading.
And principally, I've been, I just finished a few days ago, Jack and Jackie by Christopher Anderson, who's considered a legitimate biographer.
He doesn't do the kind of antics that Darwin Porter does.
Yes.
You introduced me to Darwin Porter, which I needed the barf bucket for a few days next to me.
And I think Porter, I don't know where he gets his information, but his chronologies and the architecture of his books follow Christopher Anderson.
This is what I'm seeing.
There are parallels, except Porter gives a lot more salacious detail and Anderson kind of stays more on the surface, but he's not being prim and proper and prissy either, right?
So for instance, this will probably shock you.
So on election day, we're going to Jack Kennedy, right?
So Larry Newman was one of the neighbors.
He lived across the street from the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport.
And he said, Jack lived and breathed politics.
And when he wasn't doing that, he was chasing women.
I used to sit with him at the monkey bar in New York, and he'd be flirting with every pretty woman in the room.
It was automatic.
I Think he did love Jackie, but it was never in his makeup to be monogamous.
So, oh, this is what shocks me, all right?
On election night, 1960, according to this Larry Newman, Jack Kennedy sneaked in the back door, sat in my kitchen, and do you know what he talked about the day he was elected president?
Girls.
He drank beer and talked about women.
I don't think it was out of disrespect for Jackie.
I really don't.
I think it was just the way he had been raised by Joe.
Jack always had women all over him.
None of us ever thought he'd get married.
We just couldn't imagine it.
Jack talked about women 50% of the time.
It was by far his favorite subject.
Election day.
This is just astonishing, Sophia.
Who would have ever thought?
I mean, I can't imagine.
Continue.
Hero.
It's like an extended adolescent stage that he never outgrew.
Right.
It was part of his being, right?
So now here's another kind of shocking little anecdote.
Jackie, this is after the assassination, Jackie, who had inherited Jack's house in the Hyannisport compound, walked over to Bobby's to share in the family's joy.
This was when Bobby picked up the Sunday morning papers and read the results of the latest polls, and the polls said that he was rapidly overtaking Hubert Humphrey, right?
He was campaigning, you could say, about to run, right?
So Jackie walks over to Ethel and Bobby's house, and she could not contain her own joy.
I'm reading from the book.
Oh, Bobby, she said, wouldn't it be wonderful when we get back in the White House?
What do you mean, we, Ethel snapped?
There was dead silence.
Okay.
We.
So Jackie and Bobby were very deeply involved romantically, and Ethel was kind of on the sideline, Bobby's wife.
And so Jackie walks over there and goes, wow, won't it be great when we get back in the White House?
And that was, Ethel had to slap her away, slap her aside.
And then when RFK was assassinated, Onassis, who Jack had banned from the White House because he felt that Onassis had an undue interest in Jackie, when the funeral occurred and the respects were being paid after the assassination, Ari, Aristotle Onassis was invited by Jackie to the White House.
So that was, I mean, in some ways in great disrespect to her dead husband.
But again, this is just me opining.
So there is a guy, Aristotle's closest friend, was Costa Gratzos.
And when RFK was killed, Aristotle Onassa said, she's free of the Kennedys.
The last link broke.
Gratzos told journalist Peter Evans that Onassa seemed not at all shocked or upset over the news that Bobby had been gunned down.
Instead, Ari was merely pleased that his biggest headache had been eliminated.
That was his competition for Jackie.
Competition being RFK himself.
Isn't that stunning?
Jackie had a greater emotional attachment to Bobby than she did to Jack.
Well, Jack was again, this is something that I'm going to put the book down because I'm just going to speak as me.
It appears from this voluminous amount of stuff I've read that neither of them, neither Jack nor Jackie, could really bond with anyone.
They didn't show love in the way that, you know, normal people try to do.
They weren't particularly affectionate.
Jack had this, there's a word for it, satiriasis.
Have you heard of that?
Yes, yes.
So sexual addiction.
And Jackie was the opposite.
Jackie had very little sexual experience, according to Christopher Anderson.
At 39, even though she had been pregnant five times, it was Aristotle Onassis who kind of threw her down and showed her what was what.
And she had to have some doctor draw her anatomical diagrams so she could understand how people's sexual organs worked.
Yes.
That's astonishing.
I know, Jim, you should read some of these books.
Keep going, keep going, Zopia.
So, you know, oh, here.
So Onassis was a wife beater, and he said, and he was a cross-dresser, and he said that all Greek men beat their wives.
He told Ingebori Dedeken, who was the youngest daughter of Norwegian ship owner Ingevald Martin Brude.
I think that's how you say it.
It nearly led to marriage despite the fact that Onassis routinely beat her.
Onassis told Ingeborg, Ingebori is how you say it, every Greek, and there are no exceptions, beats his wife.
It's good for them.
It keeps them in line.
And then he started to smack Jackie around.
Oh, God.
Yes, this was when she was spending incredible amounts of money.
I mean, this woman, in my opinion, when she came back into the world after both Kennedys died, because Bobby was gone, Jack had been killed years before, and she had to pick,
I related the supposed Howard Hughes proposition in our last show, but she picked the guy who had the most money of all Of her suitors, and remember, I mentioned in our last show that she had 2,000 marriage proposals, 2,000, yes.
So Onassis had the most money.
Yeah, I always felt she thought that because he was so rich, he could provide security for her and the children.
Not that, in fact, I believe at that point they were in any jeopardy whatsoever.
I don't believe it.
But she may have wanted that security.
Well, she wanted the money.
She really wanted the money.
And he was sort of like a brother Gore Vidal.
He was the son of one of the wives of Hugh Auchenclaus, who ended up being Jackie's stepfather.
But he said Jackie was completely into money.
And let me just read that quote.
I have so many stickies.
Her mother had pounded into those girls, both daughters, that they had to marry for money.
They had to step up.
Because you see, the Bouviers didn't have the kind of money that Janet Bouvier married into by marrying Auchenclaus.
But that wasn't their money.
They weren't going to inherit any of that.
So, because Auchinclaus had other children.
So these girls, Roxy Will, Lee, and Jackie, were taught by their mother that they absolutely had to marry up.
Marry up.
And marrying up is an economic term, which means that you don't marry somebody of lesser economic status than you are, because you as a woman are going to have to bear the brunt of working or keeping the standard of life that you're accustomed to.
So generally, women marry up and men marry down.
You want to comment on that?
Fascinating, just fascinating.
Yeah, women marry up to secure greater economic security.
Why men marry down?
I couldn't explain.
Can you elaborate why you think that might be the case?
Yes, it has to do with childcare.
A man who has less money than his wife, who is a lower wage earner in the marketplace, is not going to make his higher wage earner wife stay home and take care of babies.
You've heard of the house father, right?
Yeah.
Stay-at-home dad.
So those men are fated to be stay-at-home dads because in general, society wants to have the higher earner go to work and make the big money.
So Harvard Law School or Harvard Business School, many, many years ago, there was a study that showed that the average graduate, MBA graduate from Harvard Business School who was a female earned $104,000 out the door.
And this was in the 90s, okay?
I read this book.
And the average male MBA graduate from Harvard earned $120,000 out the door.
All right.
So the 104,000 Harvard MBA female graduate married up.
She married men on average who made $140,000, $150,000.
And the 120,000 earning Harvard MBA men graduates married down and they married women who made $39,000 a year.
Fascinating.
That's quite a gap.
That is a drop.
They didn't even go for wives who were in that $100,000 bracket because it was too much competition.
So you stay home and take care of the babies.
If all you can make out in the marketplace is $40,000 a year, you're going to be diapering and you're going to be doing the laundry.
Yeah.
So this whole, so Honassis believed that you beat women, it was just fine, and he had no regard for international whaling regulations.
He had whaling expeditions that he would conduct.
And 96% of all the sperm whales he slaughtered were undersize.
And it says here, as a direct result of Ari's actions, herds of sperm whales off the Peruvian coast were decimated.
And he had a violent streak.
He took pleasure in this carnage.
So I'll quote in the book, so much so that he invited his guests on whaling parties during which the male guests were invited to put down their drinks, grab a grenade harpoon, and join in the slaughter.
It was an amazing spectacle, something out of Melville, said one of those who went along.
There was this great thrashing of tails and the men at the harpoons shouting in Norwegian and in Greek.
Slowly the water began to turn red until it seemed as if the entire sea were crimson.
God.
Yeah, and then what he would do...
This is really gross, Jim.
He would take the foreskins, the penis skin of the whales, and he would upholster his bar stools in that.
God.
And then he would tell his female guests on the Christina, his yacht, that they were sitting on the biggest penis on earth.
Grotesque.
How grotesque, Sylvia.
I know.
Kind of a perverted mentality would do things like that.
Yes.
And this is the guy Jackie chose to marry?
Yes, and he had two sex slaves in Italy.
Did you know this?
No.
Did Onassis had sex slaves in Italy?
Yes, two young men.
They weren't underage.
They were in their 20s.
They were very nice looking.
And one he kept in an apartment, and the other one was on call.
And when he went to...
Yes.
Oh, yes.
And then he would beat them.
And people heard screams and punches from behind the doors.
And the men, these young men were screaming, no, no, no, I love you.
I love you.
And as they got beaten up.
God.
Sick.
Very sick, Sophia.
And of course, he kept on with Maria Callis, right?
In spite of marrying Jackie, he didn't give her up.
I think he was her true love.
Murray wanted a golden plum of a woman.
He wanted to show this off to the world.
I mean, he wasn't even Greek.
He was Turkish, apparently.
And he was a short man.
People called him an ugly toad.
And he wasn't that attractive, but he was apparently an amazing lover.
And Jackie was very into him for the first year, possibly because every two weeks on schedule on her breakfast tray, they didn't share a bedroom, just like she didn't share one with JFK in the White House either.
But she would get delivered on her breakfast tray, beautiful flowers and a diamond bracelet every two weeks.
Beautiful flowers and a diamond bracelet.
Yes.
And then he gave her, 10 days after Chappaquitik, Ari gave Jackie the 440.42, so a little over 40 carats, Marquis Lesotho 3 diamond for her 40th birthday, along with a matching diamond necklace and bracelet.
The Lesotho 3 was the third largest cut from the original 601 carat Lesotho diamond.
Wouldn't you love to have that?
The 11th, I'm looking at, you don't want a diamond channel.
Money has never meant anything to me.
Alas, my wife will tell you she only wishes it did, but it's never meant anything to me.
As long as I have enough to pay my bills and keep a roof over my head, food on the table, I really not want it for more.
So I think that may be a failure in my business accumulation because I have virtually none.
Well, okay, so this 601 karat diamond was cut up, obviously.
It was the 11th largest diamond ever found and the biggest discovered by a woman.
It sold at auction in 1996 for $2,587,500.
So she also received a pair of 18-carat gold and ruby Apollo 11 ear clips by Greek jeweler Elias Laounis to commemorate the first lunar landing, the realization of JFK's dream to land a man on the moon by the end of the decade.
That's how he said it.
Except, of course, we didn't actually do it, but there you go, celebrate it anyway.
So Jackie's, she also got those, she also got these earrings, and they were large moons of hammered gold, the textured surface indented with craters and studded with rubies, studded with rubies.
What's the matter with me?
It's like I can't talk today.
The large globes dangled from lunar capsule-shaped links.
So Ari spent on Jackie's 40th birthday more than $2 million on stuff that he gave her.
So it was this.
That was a drop in the bucket financially.
So, I mean, he just knew what would please her.
So this is the thing, though.
She was a shopaholic.
And I think she was doing this to fill a void because after Jack was assassinated, she cried nonstop.
She was just always crying, crying, crying.
When she moved to New York to 1045th Avenue and had her apartment, she would walk through Central Park with a big scarf over her head and big sunglasses and just cry, cry, cry all day.
And even little Caroline told her religious nun teacher that, my mommy cries, my mommy cries all the time.
And so, you know, I think what happened was JFK realized what an asset she was to him when he started at the very beginning of the campaign trail for 64.
And that's when he really began to appreciate her.
And apparently, according to biographers, they had some deep reconnections or connection for the first time.
And then this was all ripped out from under her.
And she lost this position in the world, just like in a second.
It was gone.
And I think she was crying about that because she didn't know what to do.
And so she filled it with shopping.
And she had to find a man who was basically a blank check.
And that's what Onassis was.
And she would go, you know, and charge spurs, shoes, handbags, stockings, lingerie, antiques, fabrics, compacts, cosmetics, scarves, baubles of every imaginable variety.
A regular at Paris fashion shows, she began scooping up entire collections by her favorite designers, Valentino, Courage, Saint-Laurent, Madame Gray, Lanvin, Dior, Jean Che.
Entire collections?
She'd go to a fashion show, she'd just snap her fingers and buy everything from the line.
Wow!
That's so get this.
So she was what retail owners love.
She was a pointer.
She'd walk into a store and point and she would buy it.
So ONASA's insider, Costa Gratzos, accurately described Jackie as a speed shopper.
But Jackie was also a pointer, a merchant's dream customer, someone who points at the desired merchandise without ever bothering to ask the price.
On a typical visit to 1 Fifth Avenue store, Jackie spent $40,000 in a matter of minutes.
We were all so excited we forgot to make out sales slips, said the store manager, and we could not remove some of the things Mrs. O'Nassis bought.
One salesman had to be taken home in a taxi and put to bed with a sedative.
Unreal, unreal, unreal.
So then she spent fortunes on pedicures, manicures, and makeup.
And she asked Halston to make her special underwear.
She called me from Greece and said, make me something sexy, Halston recalled, and I said, something very Marilyn Monroe.
So nobody knew about Jack and Marilyn Monroe at this point, except she did.
And so then there was a silence, and Jackie says she didn't wear any, meaning underwear, because Marilyn didn't.
So there were other, you know, okay, so here.
There were other expenditures the public didn't see.
$5,000 a year for messengers just to deliver merchandise to and from stores, $7,500 for drugstore incidentals, $6,000 for the care of her dogs, $15,000 for flowers.
Again, when compared to the average income for Americans at the time, under $10,000 per year, these amounts were staggering.
So then she would tell people, you know, there's no danger of the spigot ever being turned off.
Ari never stops working.
He dreams in millions.
Fascinating.
Things you never knew about.
Jacqueline Bolivar Kennedy.
Fascinating.
Sophia Moore.
Well, okay, so here's what's really awful.
Have I talked about the resale money laundering of hers?
Go for it.
All right, so she was on a leash.
She got 30,000 a month from Aristotle as a spending allowance, but she was allowed to buy anything she wanted.
So she charged, you know, you know, it was like 2 million a year in stuff.
And then she would take this stuff and have it shipped to these resale boutiques in Manhattan.
Her favorite one was Encore on Madison Avenue.
And there she would discharge all these items that she bought and take the money and put it in her bank account.
My goodness.
Yeah, yeah, Jim.
And then she was invited by some rich oilmen from Iran.
I'm trying to find the quote here.
I just read this.
To visit Iran, and she went nuts.
She, okay, so here.
All right.
In May of 1972, Jackie and Ari were invited by Iranian oil man, Dr. Reza Falah, and his daughter Lily to spend nine days in Tehran.
So then.
Who's this?
We?
Okay, so somebody paid for this.
The Dr. Falah and his family paid for this.
Each night, the Onassissists and their entourage went to the most expensive nightclubs and restaurants, racking up stratospheric bills and charging it all to Dr. Fala.
Jackie's daytime hours were spent purchasing anything and everything that struck her fancy.
Several pounds of gold and caviar, earrings, necklaces, bracelets, rings, Persian rugs, sheepskin jackets, antiques, boots, and a huge brass trunk just to accommodate her jewelry.
When it was all over, Jackie left her house with a staggering $650,000 bill, more than $72,000 per a day.
And this was typical of both of them.
When they were any, you know, Senator Kennedy and his wife, whether he was in the white, they never paid for anything.
They'd go out to dinner and they left whoever it was with the bill.
And in many instances, Joe had an ownership interest in the restaurants that they ate at.
So Jack, he never had a dollar on him.
And Jackie never paid a bill.
In the aftermath of the assassination, when she was so disconsolate and she had to have friends who took her out, a lot of times it was older men.
And she'd call them up and say, let's go out to dinner.
They always footed the bill.
And they said that she had become too expensive for them.
Sophia, we've hit a break.
We'll continue right after.
You don't want to miss a word of this.
will be right back.
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Now we return you to your host.
Thank you.
Sophia, please continue sharing the results that you researched on Jackie Post Jack.
Stunning stuff.
Well, Jim, I can't call this research.
It's just reading, okay?
But we'll throw in a little bit of analysis, you and I. So get this.
Once she returned to the United States, Jackie began selling off her Iranian booty.
So she re-sold all this stuff and it cost poor Dr. Fala $650,000 and she made $250,000 in cash from this nine-day trip.
Jackie still complained to Ari that she was running out of funds.
Among her unexpected expenses, 200 pairs of shoes purchased in a single outing for $60,000.
Yes, well, a girl can't be without an extra pair of shoes.
Well, no, these were being shipped to Encore to be sold.
Okay.
Unbelievable.
To be resold so she could make more money.
So she could put the money.
This is how, so I have had experience secondhand in this manner.
There are resale boutiques here and coastal San Diego tends to be pretty affluent, especially a community called Rancho Santa Fe.
Yes.
Highest horses per capita and all multi-millionaires, people from a lot of old money as well.
There's often a pattern of very old men marrying these very young women who are trophy wives.
And the trophy wives send the maids with the SUV to these resale boutiques and the maids open the doors and there are clothing racks with brand new suits and dresses and gowns from Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's and old-fashioned, high-fashion designer clothing with a tag still on them for like $5,000.
I've seen this with my own eyes and they are sold in the resale boutiques and the wives pocket the money.
So they tell their husbands, you have to pay for my wardrobe and she's so gorgeous, he says yes.
And he just gives her the credit card and she charges it all up and then she goes and resells most of it and then puts the money in her account.
One woman told one of my acquaintances who's an owner of one of these boutiques, my husband bought me a whole new house so I could store my clothes.
A whole new house?
Yes.
And Jackie was always after Onassis to buy more houses for her.
She wanted him to buy her a house in Acapulco, which was near the villa where she had had her honeymoon with Jack.
She couldn't stop talking about Jack, and that really annoyed Onassis.
And, you know, she was annoyed.
She sacked being fired 100 employees in just four years.
If she found a maid's face to be sad, she would have her fired.
Wow.
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
So, and she was very untidy.
So, Christina's, that's the boat, that Christina's chief steward, Christiane Cafarakis, claimed that what needled the staff was Jackie's terrible untidiness.
When she changed her clothes, she would try on a dozen dresses and sets of underclothes and leave them on the floor behind her.
A maid would always have to be on hand because she would be very cross if she turned around and found any garment lying about on the floor or on furniture, even if she had just discarded it.
Wow!
What a hybrid!
You know, this is in contrast with this graceful woman who was cultured, knew about art, talked to heads of state in their own languages, impressed them with her knowledge of literature, the great writers of their country, the history, and this turns into this.
The popular image versus the private reality.
Well, this is, I think, what she evolved into because she lost that prestige and position as First Lady of America and the most glamorous First Lady.
So then she marries the blank check and charges everything right and left, rips other people off and resells all this stuff.
But so that...
Well, yes.
She felt, but what would she have done after that?
So here's the hypothetical.
If JFK did have another four years and he was done at, you know, 1968, right, then she would have had to retire from the White House.
What would she have done with herself?
Because the Kennedys didn't give her this kind of money.
They paid for her wardrobe, but they didn't just hand her credit cards and say, go and buy whatever you want.
So it says here, this is Eileen Mela, who was a very good friend of both Jackie and Onassis, who was close to them.
She says, if he regarded any woman as his wife, it was Maria Kalas.
Maria was his soulmate.
And I think the ink was barely dry on the pre-nuptial agreement before he regretted what he'd done.
That means marrying Jackie.
And he started to call her the widow, just like Ethel Kennedy called Jackie, called her the widder.
This is, you know, like a spoof on widow.
The widder.
And then Ethel becomes a widder, right?
So that's the sad irony.
But Onassa started to say, the widow wants this, the widow wants that.
And he started to get more and more angry.
He had lavished her with a lot of gifts in the beginning, but then he said he did not want to indulge her.
So she was furious, you know, because she told him, wherever you go in the world, you have to bring me a present.
And it says here, this is Costa Gratzas, telling columnist Jack Anderson.
I guess that's different from Christopher Anderson.
Ari had to bring back a present from every part of the world he visited.
Once all he brought her was a simple apron from Africa, and she was livid.
I suppose she expected a shoebox of raw diamonds.
So, you know, this is, there was a carryover which turned into kind of an eating disorder.
She continued to receive these amphetamine treatments from Max Jacobson, Dr. Jacobson.
And the sad thing was that in the 70s, Jacobson was investigated and he was stripped of his medical license because he had been giving people very addictive substances, speed, dexedrin, and then valium to bring them down.
And this was what enabled Jack Kennedy.
So we should talk about that a little bit, I think.
Here's a thing.
Dr. Feelgood.
And by the way, just as an aside to Sophia, we know from this latest conversation with James Files, how they made sure Teddy could never run for president.
And by killing Mary Joke Hackney, Frank Sturgis apparently held her while E. Howard Hunt put a sack over her head.
And when she was dead, James Files drove the car off of the Chablaquittick Bridge.
It was supposed to be deep enough to turn over, but was so shallow.
And when Teddy was reluctant to get into the water because he just bought a new $1,250 suit prank, Surges grabbed him by the collar and just threw him into the pond.
This is all so disgraceful and disgusting.
Some of you, weren't you a bit floored to learn that?
Well, yes, and it is the story that makes the most sense where Chappaquitik is concerned.
You know, I'll just tell you, this is another, we have to consider all the possibilities, but with this guy actually telling you or telling this interviewer, and I guess he's ill now, James Files, so he's talking pretty much.
These are his last days.
But so I have a friend who's a very brilliant analyst, and he's followed a lot of this.
He's the one who sent me the book Senatorial Privilege about Chappaquiddick and Teddy Kennedy.
And so my friend thought that those two, Mary Jo and Teddy, went off to do their lover's lane thing.
And a cop came.
There was a deputy sheriff who drove very close up to them.
And at that point, they did not stop.
They continued to drive, which surprised this deputy sheriff.
I forget his name.
He has a funny name.
Oh, look.
Somebody look, which is interesting because he looked and he saw the black Oldsmobile when he was patrolling this dirt road or the end of Chappaquittic Island.
So what happened Was in my friend's theory that Teddy jumps out of the car and tells Mary Jo he doesn't want to be caught in the car if the cop comes back.
So he said, go to the end of the road, turn around, and come back and pick me up, and we'll get out of here because of the cop, right?
Yeah.
Because it would have been a scandal.
And so this is just a hypothetical on the part of my friend who has not seen this James Files thing, although I sent it to him.
And so Mary Jo, not knowing where the road ended, drove the Oldsmobile over the edge into the pond.
And then Teddy did not do anything to try to get her out because then they're stuck there.
But your guy, or whoever he is, James Files, tells a more plausible story, which is that the ferry didn't even run.
This is what delayed Teddy Kennedy from making any calls to authorities, the police, for instance, because he's stuck on the island with the bad guys who slept in a car.
Yes.
Until the ferry came.
Yes, and of course it was because Teddy had been sharing too many secrets with Mary Jo that they regarded her as a threat that had to be eliminated.
But it also was such a scandal that Teddy would never be a viable candidate to run as president in the Kennedy tradition.
So two birds with stone.
So Jim, pillow talk, once again, pillow talk.
Yes.
Pillow talk is dangerous.
And the FBI knew it, the CIA knew it, the mob knew it.
And I guess these men, Jack was somebody who was engaging in pillow talk, but Jack was a 20-minute cup of coffee.
They said sex for him was like downing a cup of coffee.
It was not a romantic endeavor.
I'm sure I've told you Angie Dickens said the report that her affair with JMK was the greatest 15 seconds of her life.
Right.
So anyway, these, I think that Jack Kennedy, you know, it was really Joe, Joe Jr., who was supposed to become president first.
And then Joe Sr.'s ambition was to have other sons of his follow.
But with Jack being as sickly as he was, he turned to comic relief to draw people's attention away from his frailty and fragility as a child.
And he's frequently in hospitals and infirmaries.
He had all kinds of issues.
He had all kinds of, from near allergies to terrible problems with disease.
And then he developed Addisons as an adult.
And, you know, one of the things was that the Addisons, he required cortisone medications in order to deal with all of his problems.
And normally he would have had a very sunken, gaunt face, but the steroids that he was being given filled out his face and made him handsome and also changed the pigmentation of his skin because Addison's, well, it wasn't the steroids, but Addison's changes the pigmentation.
So you look tan, and here he looked really robust, but it was a façade that was just not something he engineered particularly.
But the people fell for it.
And here was this gorgeous wife of his dressed in these beautiful gowns.
I mean, literally looking like she had stepped out of the night sky when she met with heads of state at these dinners.
You know, rhinestones and sequins sewn, had sewn on everything.
And the two of them were so just king and queenly.
This is where the illusion was created.
And I don't think Jack could barely manage his presidency because he was constantly being shot up, finally, by Dr. Feelgood, who never charged him a penny.
And Jack promised Feelgood, Jacobson, Max Jacobson, that he would intervene.
If Jacobson was ever, you know, caught by the authorities or needed help, needed financial help, he would be there for him.
And that did happen.
That happened finally in the 70s.
And Jacobson appealed to Jackie and reminded her of the conversation that Jack had had with him.
We'll be here for you if you ever need money.
And Jackie walked away and said, yes, yes, I'll send you some money.
And she never did.
And so he was stripped of his medical license.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's quite a betrayal.
Yeah.
Christina Onassis said, I don't dislike her, you know, I hate her.
And Aristotle Onassis said, he said, I thought I was buying a prize cow when I married Jackie.
How could I know the cow would cost me 50 million dollars?
So he was terrified.
His worth was guessed to be some 500 million when she married him.
And then he made a bunch more money.
But then he began to lose money.
So he was up to 1 billion.
And then he started to lose money from the oil embargo.
He started to lose at that time.
And he had failing health.
You know, he ended up with myasthenia gravis with that diagnosis.
But Jackie wasn't sympathetic.
So he was just terrified when he started to the nature of the disease.
Oh, you know, I used to know my friend, a friend of mine has it.
And then I, it's a neurological disease.
You get into these crises.
I know that people, my friend had a myasthenia gravis crisis and they have to take all the blood out of your body and they really.
Oh, yeah, it's very serious.
It's progressive And it's no picnic.
And so he was just very worried that he had decided he was going to give her as a settlement, this was in their pre-nuptial agreement, $3 million.
And yet, he didn't think she would accept it.
So it says here, Roy Cohn, all right?
So remember Roy Cohn?
He's a famous...
Go right ahead.
Yeah, so in December of 1972, Ari met with Roy Cohn at Cohn's townhouse in New York's East 68th Street and told him the marriage was over.
He had already instructed his attorneys in Greece to lay the groundwork for divorce proceedings there.
He was fed up, so he wanted Cohn to handle the American end of things.
He was fed up with Jackie's spending.
She was completely out of control, and yet she felt she owed him nothing.
Wherever he wanted her to be, whatever he wanted her to do, Jackie did the opposite.
He kept saying that he didn't like being taken for a sucker, that she was taking him for all he was worth, that the free ride she was getting from him was over.
So that's Roy Cohn.
So Cohn said, according, Onassis knew the Greek Orthodox Church would allow him to end the marriage strictly on the grounds of incompatibility.
That was not the problem, Cohn said.
Money was the problem.
He knew Jackie wasn't going to sit back and accept the $3 million he'd given her as part of the prenuptial pact.
Her spending habits were incompatible with his.
I mean, it was incompatibility after all.
Onassis was really worried that Jackie would try and hold him up for 100 million or more, and that scared him shitless.
I'm sure she would have done that.
How did it play out?
Well, he got very sick, and she wasn't sympathetic.
And his son died.
You know, his son, so they called, Onassis' family called Jackie the black widow because everywhere she went, death followed.
And they had a number of family members die after he married her.
And they were really very superstitious, the family.
And her, so he had a son, Alexander Onassis, who was delighted.
Both his children, Christina and Alexander, did not like Jackie.
And they were both very happy to hear that he was going to divorce her.
I thought he died in a skiing accident, something like that.
Is that wrong?
No, I don't think he did.
I don't know.
I haven't reached that.
I read in another book how he died, but I already forgot because there's so much stuff flying around in my head.
You know?
So anyway, get this.
So poor Alexander was test flying with a new pilot, their Piaggio amphibious plane, which he had already told his father, Onassis, was a death trap, and he wanted to get rid of it.
And Ari agreed to replace it with a helicopter.
But first, Onassis wanted Alexander to check out a new pilot at the Piaggio's controls.
So Alexander on January 22nd, I guess this is 1973, is taxiing into position at Athens International Airport with this new pilot at the controls.
And 15 seconds after takeoff, the plane veers to the right and plummets to the earth.
And although the pilot wasn't critically injured, the son Alexander was.
And he ended up with blood clots on his brain and serious brain damage.
And Onassis told the doctors to pull the plug and end his life support.
And then Onassis got very, very, very sad.
So here's another thing that should floor us all.
So Alexander had a girlfriend, Fiona Tisson.
I don't know if this is the T-H-Y-S-S-E-N, the famous Tisson family who are part of the, you know, Illuminati crowds.
So they're waiting.
I don't think that he's quite dead yet, this Alexander.
He's on life support.
And Jackie flew to comfort Fiona and to attend this setting of near death of Alexander.
After a few consoling words to Fiona, Jackie asked the grieving woman, this is Alexander's girlfriend, if Alexander had mentioned anything to her about the size of the divorce settlement Ari had in mind.
Really?
Yes.
How inappropriate.
Yes.
She was a money robber, Sophia.
This is really bad.
I know.
Fiona was amazed that Jackie, who had lost so many loved ones, would be so callous as to ask such a question while her husband's only son lay dying.
Alexander had mentioned the additional one million figure to her, but she was too dazed to answer the question.
I really think that's a question for you to ask your husband, don't you?
Fiona said to Jackie.
No, this is bad.
Very disillusioning.
Honestly, anyone who had any lingering affection for Jackie has got to be powerfully undermined by these reports.
Yes.
So we I'm curious though, I'm going to segue into something else.
The moon landing.
Yeah.
How was JFK convinced that we were able to put a man on the moon?
Just because they told him they were working on it?
I can't answer that.
You know, Sputnik had been such an embarrassment.
This was a U.S. response to show we actually were scientifically and technically superior to the Soviet Union, which we were not.
So, I mean, the whole thing was a fraud, but I'm sure he was induced.
I mean, he would have been given false claims about technical ability and minimizing the hazards and obstacles, some of which were insurmountable, such as a band radiation belt.
So, you know, Jack was played.
Yeah.
I mean, if you don't have the technical knowledge, and the myth had been perpetuated for a while, because they had a bunch of Apollos before Apollo 11, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the whole thing was a force.
We didn't have the propulsion power to escape low Earth orbit.
We didn't have the computing.
We didn't have the communication ability from the moon.
I mean, that was all absolutely fabricated and faked.
It wasn't even any time delayed.
We're talking to somebody in the next room.
Because basically, that's what he was doing.
So that, you know, at one point, I took advantage of an article in the public post, talk about the moon landing and the commentators said in communications would have required a man, the size of a bread truck to have made the communication possible because we didn't have any bread trucks on the moon.
Sophia, another break, we'll be right back.
Sophia Small Storm.
And more on the Kennedys.
You really didn't want to know, but there it is.
We'll be right back.
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And now we return you to your host.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Do tell us more, Sylvia.
It's really disturbing stuff, but something I think we all are entitled to know.
Well, here's something rather remarkable going back to JFK, and this is from, I believe it's George Smathers, who was a senator, right?
I think in school.
So Smathers said, people don't understand just how bad off Jack was during his presidency.
He could barely stand up much of the time, much less walk.
He leaned on Secret Service guys all the time.
Smathers recalled a banquet JFK was to attend in Miami when he could hardly dress himself.
I had to put on his shoes and socks for him.
Jack was just like FDR, and he did a great job concealing it.
But unlike FDR, JFK managed to accomplish this subterfuge without the press's tacit cooperation.
Jack even managed to hide it from them.
So, you know, he would always ride a cart on the golf course, but then he would suddenly go white.
This was Pierre Salinger reporting.
And people around him, he would be in pain and suddenly there would be a flash of pain so intense that he would go sheet white.
But this is what's really interesting.
Look closely at the photographs.
Lowe said, that's L-O-W-E.
I'm looking for the name.
Anyway, one of the people close to him, he tried to avoid it when someone was taking a picture, but occasionally he is caught off guard leaning.
He was always leaning on tables, on desks, on windowsills, the backs of chairs.
Tish Baldridge recalled that people covered up for him.
He had this uncanny knack of leaning up against a wall and going to sleep.
He could sleep standing up, which always astounded me.
Jack had this little trick.
He would put on his sunglasses and people thought he was watching a parade or whatever, and the whole time he'd be sleeping behind those glasses.
I'd catch him doing it all the time.
Wow.
You know, like a horse.
They sleep standing up.
Wow.
That's how, I mean, this is the thing for me, to know how much pain he had to tolerate and how many drugs he took and how weak he was, that he couldn't really even stand.
You see old people doing this.
They move from one chair and then they'll touch a countertop and a table.
But he was very, very feeble and he was only in his 40s.
It was a combination of the injuries he sustained saving a fellow sailor when PT-109 went down, but the Addison's disease, which of course it was impossible to shape and meant that he wasn't going to live a long, healthy life.
So I wonder what his expected would have been absent the assassination.
Probably not great.
He was obsessed with death.
He talked about it all the time, that he didn't have long to live.
When he visited Arlington National Cemetery, I think he was visiting Patrick's grave, his son that died.
He just looked around and he said, this is so beautiful.
I'd love to be here forever.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
So we're not at all sure that his body is even there.
I think Lyndon would have made sure to dispose of it lest there be a, you know, bringing it back up to do a genuine forensic examination because it would have revealed the true causes of death, which are far removed from the official narrative.
So I think we got an eternal flame over an empty gravesite, my take.
Bobby Kennedy and Pierre Salinger, I'm trying to get this eye message turned off, but I can't turn it off.
It pings.
All right.
So excuse me.
Bobby Kennedy and Pierre Salinger, who miraculously managed to conceal Max Jacobson's identity from the press, joined Dr. Janet Trevell.
That was his, so she was also giving him a lot of different stuff.
She was a pharmacologist and doctor, and she was helping him deal with his infirmities that had to do with his back and his constant pain.
So these two, Bobby and Pierre Salinger, were joined by Trevell in pleading with Jack Kennedy to drop Dr. Max.
In his capacity as Attorney General, Bobby asked that all medications Jacobson used on his brother be submitted to the Food and Drug Administration for analysis.
The president, Max Jacobson recalled, after much pressure and with apparent embarrassment, asked me if I would consider complying.
Without hesitation, I agreed and forwarded to Robert Kennedy 15 vials of medication for use on the president.
A week later, the president informed me that the material had been examined, tested, and approved.
Dr. Trevell never received a promised copy of the report.
It showed that the mixture routinely being injected into the president and the first lady contained not only large amounts of amphetamines, but steroids As well.
At the time, neither of these perfectly legal drugs was officially deemed by the FDA to be harmful or addictive.
So now, Jack and Jackie remained patients of Dr. Feelgood for the remainder of his presidency, and then Jackie continued to be his patient afterwards.
So it was not as if they had a choice.
This is Anderson writing in his book, Jack and Jackie.
Victims of incomprehensible public pressures and private stress, they had found a way to cope.
And Jack, burdened by pain his entire life, was experiencing an unprecedented degree of relief.
But by any clinical definition, they were now dependent on the medication dispensed by Jacobson.
The President of the United States and the First Lady were unknowingly addicted to speed.
Unknowingly addicted to speed.
Yeah, they were basically drug addicts.
And then they would crash from that, and then they had to have more drugs to deal with the crash.
But Jack Kennedy said, I don't care if there's Panther's piss in there, as long as it makes me feel good.
I don't know how Jack could keep up his sexual escapades when he's in this kind of physical stress.
That's what the amphetamines covered.
You know, Jackie famously was very down after the assassination, and she called Feel Good, and he would give her shots.
And there was a period of time where she retreated to the farm, I think it's called Hickory Hill, and she was a horsewoman, so she would jump on a horse and she'd go riding and she rode and rode and rode and rode and jumped people's fences and ran all over their land and didn't care.
And nobody could understand where she got that energy.
And it was from these amphetamines.
It's all very distressing, all these stories you're sharing.
Very distressing.
I mean, beyond disillusionment.
They're very distressing, Sylvia.
All right.
So here, Dr. Max Jacobson always appeared disheveled, was constantly dozing off, and his fingernails were blackened from chemicals.
Jack might have felt differently had he known the shiny black medical bag neatly packed with vials was itself a calculated deception.
Jacobson's standards of hygiene left much to be desired.
Eddie Fisher, who is, you know, Hollywood personality, described the medical bag the doctor carried as a jumble of dirty, unmarked bottles and nameless chemical concoctions which he would just dump out on a table when he began to mix an injection.
For his presidential house calls, he instructed his assistant, Harvey Mann, to get my black bag polished and filled.
We're going to see the PREDS.
Mann said he would actually shine up the bag, then put in vials of amphetamines and vitamins I had mixed.
On a half dozen occasions, Mann went along with Jacobson to the Carlisle.
JFK was especially warm to the doctor and always called him Max.
They were quite fond of each other.
Dr. Max would follow JFK into another room and sometimes stay for as long as an hour.
Jacobson and Mann were never searched by the Secret Service during these trips to the Carlisle, nor did anyone ever examine Dr. Max's bag.
Some security, said Mann.
They never looked at the stuff.
Why, I could have killed the president.
No one, not even Dr. Max, supervised me when I made up the amphetamine cocktail so I could easily slipped in poisoned.
Yes.
Wow.
So anyway, you know, we have a very strange picture here, Jim.
Oh, I couldn't agree more.
Very distressing.
Before and after his assassination and all the womanizing and all the pain and all the suffering and the sleeping taboo.
What a combination, Sophia.
Well, I honestly think that he was so, so he had this adulation for his father.
And his father wanted Joe.
This would not have been Jack's deal had Joe not died.
Right.
They say that Joe was competing with Jack's bravery when his Navy plane came down because he took an assignment that was very risky or something.
And Jack had done the PT-109.
My understanding is that this was post-World War II.
They were dumping bombs they hadn't dropped on Germany into the Atlantic and a plane above his dropped one and it hit his plane.
That's my understanding.
That's how Joe went out.
In a wartime accident, you could call it friendly fire.
Yeah, but still, I mean, very sad.
So Joe, who wasn't nearly as frail and fragile and sick.
Oh, no, no.
Right, you're absolutely right.
And apparently even more charismatic than Jack, if you can imagine.
Yeah, but we wouldn't have had a Jackie probably.
Or maybe, because Jackie was handpicked by Joe Sr. and for that, she was grateful to him for her entire life.
And she said she only loved three men, her way of loving, and that would be Black Jack Bouvier, her father, Jack Kennedy, and Joe Kennedy Sr.
Interesting.
Hopefully her son as well.
She loved him, I hope.
But anyway, I mean, I'm not one to comment on that.
But the saddest thing is that, you know, this Jack Kennedy, I think, just lived up, did his very best.
It was superhuman What he did to live up to his father's desire to have a Kennedy in the White House.
Yes.
I mean, the physical trials that he had to undergo to do that were incredible.
Yes.
Yes.
Give us something of your overall assessment of the Kennedy mystique, the whole bit.
So from beginning to end, I mean, you know, the debates with Richard Nixon, I witnessed them on television.
They were no doubt decisive because Jack came across cool, calm, collected.
Nixon, who refused even to have makeup, was perspiring.
He looked uncomfortable.
I don't have any doubt in a close election that that debate resolved in favor of Jack.
I mean, overwhelmingly in favor of Jack.
But he had just had sex before the debate, and he had had a feel-good shot.
Yeah, well, Nixon had neither.
Yeah, who knew, right?
I don't think Tricky Dick was into sex at all, you know.
I mean, he did have a, what, he had two daughters?
You know.
Trisha.
Trisha Nixon and Julie Nixon.
Yeah, Trisha and Julie.
So Ben Bradley, who was a close friend of the Kennedys, and then Jackie kicked him to the curb later after Jack died.
So JFK succeeded in his attempt to keep his Don Juan activities out of the press.
Had the more titillating details of JFK's private life been made public, even Ben Bradley conceded that it would almost certainly have led to Jack's removal from office.
If the American public had learned, Bradley wrote over 30 years later, that the President of the United States shared a girlfriend in the biblical sense with a top American gangster and Lord knows who else, I am convinced he would have been impeached.
That just seems unforgivably reckless behavior.
Well, compare that with what Donald Trump, the original Donald Trump, appears to have done with Jeffrey Epstein.
I mean, no comparison.
They're talking about Judith Exner, of course.
Jack had dalliances with a lot of women in Maryland on more than one occasion.
Well, his appetite for conquest in that regard was really crazy.
He would slip out of the White House with Lem Billings, his homosexual best friend, and they would go to the movies.
And there would be a lot of first-run movies brought into the White House as well.
And he would see somebody, you know, somebody new, and he would call up a woman, star or Starlet, and he would call up Frank Sinatra and say, I want to meet her.
I'll fly to LA.
I'll stay at my brother-in-law's, Peter Lawford.
And let's have me meet her, you know?
And then he would get tired of these women.
So he never really bonded with any of them.
And that's what made Marilyn Monroe so mad.
Yeah, I do think Marilyn had a greater emotional attachment to Bobby, too.
I mean, you're talking about Jackie.
I think it was also true of Marilyn.
Yes.
No, Bobby was a different person.
Jack was, you know, again, it could be, Jim, that in his own like deep psyche view of himself, he knew he was very frail.
He knew he was sickly.
He knew he was weak.
He wasn't, he didn't excel at sports.
He couldn't rough and tumble quite the way his brothers could and his cousins and all these other people.
And the Kennedys were very kind of, you know, they were rowdy.
So his sexual appetite, that may have been the way that he made up for it in his own head, you know?
Yes.
But again, I'm just guessing.
I don't know.
I just read about this and I'm stunned.
Stunning, stunning, as you would say.
He made a lot of powerful enemies who conspired against him in Dallas and CIA threatening to shatter it into a thousand pieces.
Joint Chiefs not invading Cuba contrary to their unanimous recommendation.
Signing above Grand Bass Test Man Treaty with the Soviets against their unanimous opposition, pulling our forces out of Vietnam.
Again, contrary to their unanimous opposition, the mafia Bobby cracking down with more indictments and convictions than ever before.
Texas oilmen, he was going to cut the oil depletion allowance in Israel.
Didn't want them to develop nukes.
I mean, it's quite an imposing list, including, of course, Eastern establishments running the Fed, where he'd already directed the Department of Treasury to print United States notes.
I think he realized it was absurd for the government to be paying interest to a consortium of private banks to publish a currency of the United States when it would be printed by Treasury for no interest at all.
So he had a lot of visions that were good for America, but bad for very powerful entrenched special interests.
And they essentially converged in De Lee Plaza and took him out.
They got rid of a threat to them, even though what he was doing was by far in the best interests of America and the people of the United States.
That was his fate.
Yeah, he was, it says here on page 342 in the Jack and Jackie book, all of Jack's friends were familiar with his fatalistic streak.
He often talked of assassination and speculated that he would be shot while riding in an open car through a downtown street with all the people and the noise.
They had to do it in public because had he died in the middle of the night in the White House, no one would have ever believed it wasn't a conspiracy.
But where they could control the evidence, take the body, subject it to alteration, control the autopsy, and all that.
They spent more time on the cover-up than they did on the assassination, Sylvia.
Oh, I know.
And he said on that day in Dallas to Jackie, he showed her the paper, and he said, we're heading into nut country today.
But Jackie, if somebody wants to shoot me from a window with a rifle, nobody can stop it.
So why worry about it?
It was very elaborate, but that was roughly a nutshell.
Certainly the story that we'd be fed as the American people.
Well, he, on some level, could see his own death, it seemed.
He talked about it all the time.
Well, very, that's very strange to me.
You know, it's almost as though he directed himself.
He turned down suggestions to put that hard top up on the wall.
That was all done by C. He didn't tell them what to do.
He followed their instructions to the letter.
They set him up.
When Nigel Turner did his men to kill Kennedy, he did a segment with David Mantic and me and others, my research group, and asked me to elaborate on 15 indications of Secret Service complicity in setting him up for the hit.
Jack had nothing to do with those decisions.
The vehicles were all in the wrong corner.
Presidential put up first.
They were different makes models and colors.
So conspirators knew where everyone was.
They left the windows open.
They let the crowd spill out into the street.
They didn't weld the manhole coverage.
It goes on and on, Sovia.
Had he wanted to, if he had misgivings and said, I don't want to ride in an open car, would they not have let that happen?
You told me the other day that they would have gotten him some other place.
Surely.
Forum or something, right?
He trusted the Secret Service.
I mean, that was a fatal mistake, but he did.
I mean, yeah, but that's what you're supposed to do.
It's like the Guardians who allow assassinations to take place.
Rabin, for example, they let the assassin walk right into his detail to be shot in the back of the head.
And this kind of thing happens more often than one would think.
But no, he believed in the Secret Service.
When Henry Gonzalez, Congressman from Texas, told him he shouldn't go, he stepped out of the Oval Office, came back in, and said, no, Henry, everything's fine.
The Secret Service has just assured me it's all set.
And it was for his assassination.
Well, it's a very sad story.
And I don't know when I'm going to be finished with all these books.
I mean, once you get a book, you kind of are obligated to finish reading it, you know.
Well, when you get a chance by and by down the road away, you know, let me know.
We can cap it all off.
But I very much appreciate you going through all this.
I think the American people would like to attain closure on the pivotal event in American history that led to a sequence of presidents who would never have occupied the office but for the death of JFK.
And it's all been in the wrong direction as far as the future of America, how it has been affected, all bad, I'm sorry to say.
Do you know that?
Are we at the end now?
Because I just found this part where in 1951 he was engaged to Alicia Darr.
Did you know that?
I think Jack did actually have a marriage before he married Jackie and it was annulled.
Yes.
Yes, I didn't know that.
Yeah.
So Bobby paid her as well.
Bobby delivered $500,000 to Alicia to settle a threatened breach of promise suit.
In 1960, she filed for divorce and in his countersuit, Edmund Perdom, that's the, I think, the man she ended up marrying, named John F. Kennedy as a co-respondent.
Once again, Bobby leapt into action, convincing Alicia to settle with Perdom and get a quiet Mexican divorce.
Yeah, from somebody.
I can't follow this very well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, Jack had a prior marriage we never ever heard about, and it was annulled or settled, whatever.
The public never knew the better.
I guess the Catholics didn't know.
this was not publicized.
I mean the church was so supportive of Jack as the first catholic press that I think they would have wanted to pave the way.
Sophia, I can't thank you enough.
Meanwhile, everyone, spending much time with your family, your friends, the people you love and care about.
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Don't waste a precious moment of it.
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