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July 24, 2025 - Jim Fetzer
01:01:50
Real Deal SPECIAL (23 July 2025): Bill Binney and Katherine Horton UNDER FIRE!
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Well, welcome to another Real Deal special interview with Bill Benny of NSA fame and Catherine Horton fighting in the courts for targeted individuals.
It's wonderful to see you both again.
I think that with all the revelations where Trump is trying to divert attention away from the Epstein files by putting out all this stuff about Obama, RussiaGate on the one hand, MLK on the other,
that it's going to lead us right back to the alleged downloading of the DNC files, which Bill exposed to be done by, well, it turned out to be Seth Rich, someone in the Eastern time zone at a rate too fast to have been Russian hacking.
Bill, I can almost not believe this is coming back around full circle, but because of his desperation, Trump is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
Your thoughts?
Well, I think all of it needs to be exposed.
All of it.
Just expose everything.
Show it all.
And let us look at it.
Let us figure out what we want to believe, what we don't, and what we see is true and what isn't.
Because right now, all we're doing is getting hearsay.
You know, that was the whole thing about Russia Game.
It was nothing but hearsay.
People saying, giving their opinions.
Well, you know, we are pinned like other body parts.
Everybody's got one, right?
You know, and they're about as worthless.
Okay.
But they're not all of equal worth.
Yeah, so we do agree about that.
So I think he should just expose it all and just say, here, you figure it out.
And let the media and everybody else sort through it and figure out what they want to believe, what they don't, and what they see is real and what isn't, you know?
He's committed a blunder, I think, by suing now the Wall Street Journal, which is a very formidable institution with vast resources for falsely reporting his involvement with the Epstein files.
And now today, they've just released a notice that they notified him back on, it may have been February 3rd, earlier this year, that his name is in the Epstein files, which comes as no surprise to any of us who've been following this sort of event, where you may or might have seen, but Intel drop this 10 cases of child sexual abuse.
I'm talking about oral and anal and ordinary vaginal rape involving children as young as 10 to age 13, boys and girls alike.
I mean, it's grotesque.
And these were lawsuits that were settled where they have access to the legal agreements.
Intel dropped 10 of them.
And if you bother to listen, we have this young girl talking about how she was brought in on the promises of modeling and all that, and then was utilized for sexual purposes with Donald Trump.
And the story is just grotesque.
I mean, I'm telling you, I've been playing some of this stuff on my files.
And her handler told her, and this is all in her interview, that when she's asked to give Donald Trump a hand job, and she doesn't want to do it, and her handler says, no, you must do it.
So she starts to proceed and Trump slaps her hand away.
And the handler says, no one touches Mr. Trump penis without a glove and gives her a latex glove.
I mean, this is just grotesque.
And later on, she explains how she was asked to give him a blow job.
And it turned out that you had to put a condom on for him to take a blow job, which is just ludicrous.
And another girl had to come over and show her how to do it.
I mean, Trump has said he's a pedophile.
He reacted that way when he was shown the steel dossier claim that he'd hired prostitutes to be on a bed that Brock and Melena and Michelle had slept in.
And he said, I wouldn't do that.
I'm a germaphobe.
And I think all of this is completely consistent.
It's awful.
It's sordid.
I hate to even talk about it, but there it is.
The facts.
Catherine, your thoughts.
Yeah, my thoughts are confession that I agreed last week that I will look into this last Wednesday.
And I have been sick all of this time.
Today is my first day when I'm not really feeling like roadkill.
So I have to apologize because I promised that I would look into this and I haven't over the whole of last week as I have an entire backlog of stuff that I still need to look at.
And but just to clarify, are these actual court dockets you can download from the court website or is this something that was just dropped by another somebody else, these files?
Oh, it's a website.
It's a website.
I know a fellow Ronza Gordon Dove.
He was formerly the editor-in-chief of Veterans Today, where I was a journalist for about a year and a half.
And he's got lots of citations.
He gives us 10 cases that were settled all the court.
I thought I had sent it to you.
The intel.
You probably did.
It's in the backlog of everything that went to hell over the last week.
Because I was literally just in bed.
It's one of these viral infections where you just can't face the world.
And also, I kind of had this creeping suspicion that somebody sprayed me with something when we went DC because it was just perfect.
You know, we got home and then boom, I was out.
But anyway, you know, allegations aside.
I would want to look at actually if there's any trace of this in the court dockets, because wading through cases, I have found so many where it was just made up court documents, even in the targeted individual cases where they claimed that certain people had court cases.
And when you dug in a little bit deeper, it was all made up.
And the person in question wasn't really a legitimate victim either.
They seem to have been an FBI plant or European intelligence plant.
So I would want to dig down all the way to the actual to verify if these court cases are legit, because I mentioned last time that one of the things that people already complained about in real court cases is that the other side, typically the government side or a big law firm, would use AI to just inundate them with court documents drafted by AI.
And then suddenly their response is 5,000 pages long.
And then you have to, you know, grind through it.
So to this day, I still, I just can't quite believe it because Trump just didn't strike me as the creepy pedophile type at all.
Now, regarding the Epstein file specifically, I don't know, as I said, I have not looked into these settled cases yet, but regarding the Epstein flight logs, he's in the flight logs in a sense that, yes, as I understood it, he flew once from West Palm Beach to Bedminster.
He hitched a ride on one of Epstein's planes.
He was never on Epstein Island, though.
And what is in Bedminster?
It's one of Francis State's and his golf lances.
So when I read that, yes, he is in the Epstein flight logs, but the flight logs are also such that they've got many names, including Stephen Hawking, who was severely disabled.
Now, I cannot see Stephen Hawking raping a child, you know, honestly.
No, that's absurd.
But Catherine, look, what I'm telling you is not absurd.
Even 10 years ago, Huffington Boast was explained by this case, and the woman's name is Katie Johnson.
She was 13 at the time.
She gave a relatively recent interview.
It's less than 30 minutes long.
And she describes exactly what I was telling as having happened to her.
I find her utterly convincing.
It's one of the 10 lawsuits that were settled, but here he had Huffington Post about 10 years ago saying, why, this one ought to be taken seriously.
And, you know, among the other features, it's a bit creepy.
He liked that she was 13 and wearing a blonde wig.
He said she reminded him of his daughter.
And if you look at the State of the Nation, they have a whole article about something's wrong with Trump's relationship with Ivanka.
He gives you about a dozen photographs.
And I tell you, as a father of a daughter as well as a son, they are not conventional familial photographs.
Okay.
She's looking at him in a way that I would not expect a daughter to look at her father.
And there's a lot more to it.
And I'm just, I'm convinced this is the case.
On the other hand, how can I put you on the spot by asking you to comment on cases you are unfamiliar with?
And of course, all your reservations are totally appropriate if you haven't had a chance.
And thus, I wonder, would it be a good idea for us to adjourn tonight and reconvene tomorrow when you've had a chance to look at some of this?
What we could do is bracket the specific case of those cases to one side, because of course, if there's something, actually, now that you mention the name, Katie Johnson, it just so happens, it just so happens that somebody posted on True Social in a reply, I think, two or three pictures that involved, I think, Katie Johnson.
Now, if it's those pictures, I picked out those pictures as if they looked like very shady Photoshop.
I can show you the pictures and we can, I think we need to do some forensics and step through because at the end of the day, with everything, with Russia Gate, with those Russian lookers in the Moscow hotel, whatever the hell it is, in the end, the devil is in the detail.
So I've already proved my work.
I went through all the adult sexual assault allegations that came up against Trump and I noticed there that they fell into two categories plus E. Jean Carroll.
The two, I think there were, what, 49, there were dozens of women who came forward, but they came in two time slots.
One was just before Super Tuesday and a second batch just before the election.
So that was back in 2020.
And then the E. Jean Carroll case, I went through with the flying chrome and the details, the forensic details of what she alleges don't make any freaking sense.
Look, look, Eugene Carroll's a fantasist.
This is a ludicrous.
She couldn't even remember the year this happened.
And if you don't have a specific date, how could he defend himself with an alibi?
You might have been off golfing.
You might have been in the Bahamas.
Who the hell knows?
It should never have gone to court.
And of course, we had these lunatic Democrat women at the Kavanaugh hearings making up fantasies, gang rapes, and the whole like.
What a grotesque performance.
And they were obviously lying.
Now, what you're describing sounds to me like a defensive move to try to discredit Katie by fabricating, just as you say, fabricating photographs.
Those are not what I'm talking about, Catherine.
This is Katie being interviewed.
She's sitting in a chair and she's talking for not quite a half an hour about her experience.
And I would be astonished if you listened to this and didn't find her completely credible.
I'm telling you.
I'll go through all that.
And ultimately, I mean, globally, because there's Trump, the individual, and there's Trump functionally as the president.
But one of the things that it is just a good thing is that these big blocks of issues are now being declassified for whatever reason.
And I think at this point also, the American people, actually the whole Western world needs to ask themselves what legality classification even has.
You point out executive order.
13526, section 1.7.
13526.
26, section 1.7 says you cannot classify anything that's evidence of a crime, fraud, any kind of criminality, corruption, waste, abuse.
You can't classify it.
You have to declassify, mandatory declassify.
So that's mandatory, instantaneous declassification that hasn't been happening.
There's the entire targeted individuals cases where there are crimes against humanity.
People are being publicly tortured to death.
All the stuff is classified.
And at some point, I think humanity has to ask themselves: what sort of legality does classification even have under a constitutional republic where supposedly everybody is an equal, there's we the people, but yet classification and the entire intelligence community, which I would like to submit is a huge big scam, is putting themselves out there as somehow the daddies of this nation, and they have access to information that nobody else has.
Well, that systemically is just, as Dr. Paul Maho once quoted, the psychopath magnet.
It is a mechanism for deep capture that will always lead to the cover-up of crime, no matter what executive orders exist.
So the question is, when all this is being uncovered and the deep state is being peeled back, at some point, the intelligence agencies need to be severely curtailed and peeled back to the absolute bare minimum essential.
And I think there has to be some sort of very fast declassification of everything because otherwise we will always get the deep state back.
The deep state is the intelligence agencies and the secret societies together.
So now the question should be what classification is even justified because anything regarding state secrets, for example, weapons technology, people would say, well, you want to classify the advanced weapons that you develop.
Well, news slash, all the weapons are being developed by Boeing, Lockheed Martin, EADS systems, you can name another couple of kinetic, whatever, the lot of them.
And guess what?
They're selling to Russia and China, the same company.
So everybody, all the world powers are buying their stuff from the same people.
What point is there to classify it anyway?
Because they all have access to the same tech.
It's just one big scam.
So the only thing that's happening with these modern weapons is that we, the people, don't have access to the information.
So when those weapons are tested on them, they're utterly helpless.
Yes.
So for me, it really is the fundamental justification and legality of classification, compartmentalization, and all that that is really in question, even bigger than just Trump himself, the person.
Yes.
Well, look, on my show this morning, I went both through the Intel Drop and the Katie Johnson.
So I've got them right here at hand.
Let me pull them up and share them with you.
These are so important and get your reaction, even if it's partial and incomplete.
In other words, I'm not going to hold you to what you say now.
Jim, you get an instant reaction at your 580,000 unread emails.
Okay, here's the Intel drop.
Trump settlement for 10 child rapes.
It goes, it's very thoroughgoing.
There's a summary here with photographs, but then there are all kinds of further details about what happened.
Here's the summary with photographs.
Michael Parker, 10 years old, oral rape, paralogue of 1992.
Trump made his parents 3 million.
Kelly Fjor, 12 years old, 1 million settlement paid in 1989.
Allegation of forced intercourse, Trump Towers.
Charles Bacon, 11 years old, 3 million.
Allegation of oral and anal intercourse, 1994, Trump Towers.
Noses are little boys as well as little girls.
Rebecca Conway, 13 years old, intercourse and oral sex, Trump Vineyard Estate, Charlottesville, 2012, 5 mil.
Marie Oliver, 12 years old, family paid 16 mil to settle allegation of forcible intercourse at Mar-a-Lago in 1993.
Kevin Dole, 11 years old, anal raped Trump Tower, 1988.
Katie Janssen, Johnson, 13 years old, raped Jeffrey Epstein Mansion, New York, 1994.
Now, the Katie Johnson I'm talking about is into this interview on my free will.
No, there was nothing promised to me for doing this interview.
Excellent.
Yes, everything that I say at this interview will be the truth.
I met Donald Trump at some parties I attend that I was working for Mr. Jeffrey Epstein.
There was about three or four times that I had encounters with Donald Trump.
I was 13.
The first time that I met Donald Trump was at a party at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion.
We were, he was, there was an orgy going on and he was kind of watching off in the distance and he basically asked if I could come over and give him a hand job.
And at first I wasn't very comfortable with it.
This was like my first or second, you know, first party, and I didn't think that that was my responsibility.
But my recruiter told me that I needed to do it.
So I agreed to.
And then he, you know, I began to, sorry, this is a little difficult, but before I gave him a hand job, he kind of slapped my hand away and said, you need to use a glove.
And the recruiter, he ran over and handed me a glove and said, no one touches Mr. Trump's penis without a glove.
So I needed to use a glove.
I gave him a hand job.
And then immediately after, you know, he had an orgasm.
He left and I didn't see him again at that party.
Go ahead, Kay.
I will listen to the whole thing.
But off the bat, Jim, off the bat, something that is like a massive red flag for me is that her face is blurred out.
Now her name is not.
She's an adult.
Every other, I mean, there's countless satanic ritual abuse victims who put that face out there.
When they block out the face, what they do is they remove your ability from actually seeing the micro expressions, which can't be faked.
So the microexpressions are the best way to tell somebody a lie.
You can just slow it down, read it, even if you're not a professional, you can figure it out.
But as soon as they blur out the face while leaving her name completely identifiable, the question is, what is the point?
You've identified the woman by voice, by name, by surname, and then you blur out her face.
To me, that already shows me that it's, I mean, my assumption is this was done by an intelligence agency.
They know about microexpressions.
They know they can't be faked.
And just think back to all the crisis actors that, you know, you and I commented on in our interviews.
You could always tell in the faces that they were, they had difficulties crying.
It's extremely hard.
You know, even actors can mimic emotions, but they can't always mimic microexpressions because it ties to the brain.
So this is already for me a huge.
I have to listen to it because a number of these witnesses are not alive to give their testimony.
She actually grew up with legal suit before because they had to have her address and she was reluctant to give her address because she knew she could be easily tracked.
Now, of course, her address could be found out anyway, but I think she was just wanting to take precautions that would make her comfortable.
I don't have any sense of any deception here from this woman whatsoever.
And while I agree with you technically, it would be preferable to those micro expressions.
Believe me, I find everything she says not incredible.
What it's complimented, you got the Huffington Post story by Katie Johnson's story ought to be taken seriously.
And you got the reports about the settlement from the Intel drop.
It all converges on the same story.
Bill, your thoughts about what we've seen so far.
I just have a very strange feeling about it because, you know, what man would like to have any kind of intimacy, you know, proper or improper, witnessed by other people?
I mean, to me, that just, you know, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
I don't know any man who would want to do that because it, you know, it's because he's a germ off.
Remember, did I not tell, when they released a steel dossier?
Well, then the two are the people that better, right?
Yeah.
More people, more germs.
You know, the other thing is also that when I remember those victims that were testifying, they were taken by, they didn't have their handlers sit there and watch and give instructions.
The other thing is, when it's a sex slave, a programmed sex slave that's run like for high-value people like that, like it's called the diamond programming.
It's a presidential prostitute sort of thing.
They know what to do.
They are super professionals in the body of a child.
They have serviced so many men by the time they are perfectly programmed and they've been instructed ahead of time.
So it's just you're completely missing the Katie Johnson story.
She was a virgin.
This was her first event, her first encounter with Donald Trump.
And frankly, I think you ought to give her the benefit of hearing her story before you trash it.
Yeah.
Honestly, God, look, I'm doing this because it's serious.
I wouldn't put this stuff on the air and talk about it if I didn't think there was something to it.
Presumably, I'm not a complete idiot.
I've been doing all this stuff for 30 years, Catherine.
I've been sorting out the real evidence from the Authentic for JFK, 9-11, Wellstone, Sandy Hook, Boston, Bombing, Orlando and Dallas, Charlottesville, Parkland, Los Angeles.
And if I am convinced this is real, there's a reason to think I just might be right.
Now, I could be wrong.
Maybe this is one of those odd cases where I've been fooled.
I've pioneered collaborative research.
I bring together groups of experts to sort out what really happened.
Because the more we have involved, the more we critique one another, and the probability of our making mistakes becomes minuscule.
I mean, it's just what I'm saying.
This was her first experience.
She had to be told what to do.
She didn't know what she could or could not do with Donald Trump penis for crying out loud.
And you're going to find she goes back and she repeats this aspects of the story.
If you listen a little more, you'll get the idea.
So, I mean, my opinion is we want to give her just a little more rope to hang herself.
And then if you feel that way after you hear it, okay, I'm good for it.
Let me let it play.
I'm always, always for getting all the data and putting it out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I know you are.
I think you guys are both terrific.
Let's go.
Let's see if we get her.
Yeah.
I get Bert Pete's card.
My gosh, I was 14 years old.
Like, what the hell do you know?
When you're that young.
Jennifer Arose.
This is a different story.
Let me go back to Kate.
Do this interview on my free will.
No, there was nothing promised to me for doing this interview.
Excellent.
Yes, everything that I say at this interview will be the truth.
I met Donald Trump at some parties I attend that I was working for Mr. Jeffrey Epstein.
There was about three or four times that I had encounters with Donald Trump.
I was 13.
The first time that I met Donald Trump was at a party at Jeffrey Epstein's mansion.
We were, he was, there was an orgy going on and he was kind of watching off in the distance and he basically asked if I could come over and give him give him a hand job.
And at first, I wasn't very comfortable with it.
This was like my first or second, you know, first party, and I didn't think that that was my responsibility.
But my recruiter told me that I needed to do it.
So I agreed to.
And then he, you know, I began to, sorry, this is a little difficult.
But before I gave him a hand job, he kind of slapped my hand away and said, you need to use a glove.
And the recruiter, he ran over and handed me a glove and said, no one touches Mr. Trump's penis without a glove.
So I needed to use a glove.
I gave him a hand job.
And then immediately after he had an orgasm, he left and I didn't see him again at that party.
Jeffrey Epstein is a billionaire friend of Donald Trump's that was responsible for throwing the sex parties.
There was, I originally came to New York trying to be a model and in my travels I met a girl named Tiffany there who was very interested in me and said that that's what she did is that she helped girls get what they wanted and she could help me get into modeling, that she knew a lot of people that were higher ups and that it would be no problem.
And so that's why she, but I would just basically have to come model at a couple of events and meet some people.
There would be no sweat.
So of course I went.
That sounded like no big deal.
And she was recruiting the girls to come to these parties.
And they all looked, I mean, most of them were my age.
There was maybe a couple girls that were maybe 14 or 15, but it seemed to me like we were all very young.
Jeffrey Epstein knew that I was 13 years old.
When he interviewed me, he asked me to get down to my brawn, just my panties, and I thought that was weird, but I mean, modeling, maybe it was something about my figure.
And he asked that I give him a massage.
So then he asked me my age.
He asked me, and I told him that I was 13.
I told him why I was there.
And he basically said, well, you'll do.
I'm sure that you'll fit pretty nicely here.
and then he tried to basically slip himself inside of me.
And I pushed him away and I said, "I'm...
And then there was the girls that did that.
Like, I thought there was a separation.
So I told him that I wasn't interested in that, but he said that I would do.
And as far as Donald Trump, he knew that I was 13, and I believe that Tiffany told him he seemed to take a liking to me because I was so young and I was also a virgin.
So I don't know.
It seemed like he wasn't really into having girls that were liked by the other guys.
He kind of, you know, the whole glove, he kind of liked things to be his first.
For lack of a better term, but he was the one who wanted to get to a girl before everyone else did.
Donald Trump knew that I was 13 because the first night that I was there, Tiffany actually suggested that she had a whole bunch of different wigs and I expressed interest in them.
I always told her that I would love to walk around with blue hair.
And so I tried some on and there was a blonde wig that she said that looked great on me.
So I wore that wig.
And Donald Trump had specifically asked about me because I remind him of his daughter.
And she said, well, she's 13 as well.
So he knew the first time that he saw me.
But he took a liking to me because I look like his daughter.
The reason I'm coming out now is when it happened originally, I just wanted to forget about the whole incident.
And when I saw that he was running for president, I felt that it was my responsibility to come out and tell our country what kind of man this person is.
I don't think that he should even be the dog catcher, let alone running the greatest country in the world.
After I met Tiffany at the bus station, she took me to, basically went to her house, her apartment, and got ready.
I put on a blonde wig because it seemed fun to pretend to be so indifferent, but we went to the party that I was basically interviewing for, and Jeffrey Epstein was the one that was running the party.
He had a quick meeting with everyone that was employed there, and then he had a private interview with me.
The first time that I met Jeffrey Epstein, he did try to force himself inside of me without getting the go-ahead or anything.
And then on the, it was probably about the third or fourth party is when he basically forced, it was another massage and it was basically like it wasn't sex, but it was, there was penetration.
And I told him that I didn't want that, but he kind of got a little irritated.
So I don't know.
There was something about him that I guess I kind of held him, like, I held A lot of resentment towards him by that time that that happened.
I kind of already started catching on that maybe I wasn't there for modeling and maybe I was just getting used for things.
And I felt that kind of hell well there's much longer.
I don't know why we don't have it.
Can I give you my opinion off the bat?
Let me just say by preference that I couldn't agree with Bill Moore.
I mean, the idea of hand job to a latex glover.
Let me, I'm going to have to go back and find out where to turn this off.
There we go.
Yeah.
A latex glover, a blow job to a condom is just ludicrous, just completely ludicrous.
But this appears to be the Donald.
Go ahead, Catherine.
Go ahead.
Please don't be offended, Jim.
I think it is huge credit to you, huge credit to you that you took this woman seriously.
And really, it shows that you are a good guy with an awesome heart and you always want to keep an open mind for these victims.
But I tell you as a woman, I did not believe a bleeding word this woman was saying because, because, number one, they did their utmost to block out the microexpressions so that you couldn't see anything.
But the one thing they could not block out, because her entire mascara and the big eyelashes and so on, emphasized her eye movements.
And when I could catch it, she was making, she was imagining images she'd never seen before because I could definitely see her eyes repeatedly go to the top right.
That is imagining.
She wasn't recalling events.
She was imagining things.
Also, her body language, as much as I could make it out, there was a lot of self-comforting.
But in the pattern of self-comforting was not, oh, these are the most stressful sexual rape incidences that occurred.
It was factual.
She was trying to recall the story.
And I have to say, when I just closed my eyes and listened to her, she sounded like all of my students who hadn't done their homework and were trying to bullshit their way through.
This is the sound of a woman bullshitting through a bloody story.
She wasn't paid enough money to rehearse it properly because also, no, I mean, I can go through and spend the day actually mapping her body language, but when she's retracting, so you have self-comforting and I'm sorry, this is just so stressful.
And shoulders go up, she pulls back, but it's not to do with rape, it's with spectral recall.
When you look at the actual rape survivors, they are angry.
If by the time they come forward, they've already decided, you know, they don't care if they're going to get killed.
They will tell their story.
And when they go through the facts, they go forward.
It's like they know it.
They know it.
She was pulling back like, oh, I'm not really sure.
Well, I really should have studied a bit more about this.
I don't believe a bleeding word.
And I absolutely agree with the intelligence agencies.
They had to blur her face out because it was impossible to work with this woman.
It's bullshit.
I'm telling you, it is utter bullshit.
And maybe, do you have any body language experts on your books?
But send it to some people.
There are some professionals who are on YouTube and say, hey, do you believe, you know, you can do an A-vent with B-test?
Is this the truth?
Because I'm an amateur.
I'm self-taught, right?
And I'm just my actual expertise is ferreting out when students haven't done their homework or copied from somebody, right?
Let's go to the tiebreaker.
Bill Benny, what's your assessment of our differences here?
It's like in court cases, you get testimony.
Some of it's hearsay, some of it's not, you know, and you just need to look at where are the basic facts?
Well, they're all in as files in the FBI.
Put them out there.
Yeah.
Let everybody see it.
Well, what about your thoughts about Katie Johnson?
I mean, there's much more to it because as I was explaining, I mean.
Well, I'd have to look at it more, Jim.
And I mean, you know.
Okay.
So we got a pro, a yay, a no, and a maybe we'll see.
Let's just.
We basically don't know yet.
That's okay.
That's okay.
I mean, when it comes to forensics, I believe them more than I do people's testimony.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, I would want to dig, is it even possible to go back to the 90s and dig out courts?
If there was a court settlement, even if it involved a minor, it should be possible to actually request those.
They've got them, Catherine.
I mean, you know, I sent the Intel Drop blog link and you'll see a number of them.
I mean, it's more detailed by far than what I've shared here.
Yeah, I really have to go through because you're absolutely right.
It has to be explored.
It absolutely has to be explored.
And always, if there's something to it, it will show up.
If there's nothing to it, it will show up even more clearly.
So it has to be followed up either way.
I completely agree with you.
Well, and I would say if the president wants to get rid of this, expose all that data in the FBI.
Yeah.
And get rid of it.
But that's not what he's doing, Bill.
He's trying to hide it.
Well, that only makes it worse for him.
I agree.
Even Nixon said that.
He said, you know, it's not what you did to get you in trouble.
It's a cover-up.
And I don't think that it has ever been more true than right now because he's destroying himself politically.
And while he's doing these good things and releasing these files for the wrong reason, it's not going to save him.
This has got a grip on the conscience of the nation.
I mean, child sexual abuse.
And listen, the state of the nation photographs, I can probably find them too, of him and Ivanka, they're very troubling.
And this is not the only time when her report, she says he liked me because I looked like his daughter.
Okay, he liked her in this blonde wig.
And I'm telling you, this is all so sordid.
Go ahead.
Be careful with this because the intelligence agencies like to echo certain factoids that are well known to give their story credibility.
So if it was known at the time, and you know, they have been monitoring Donald Trump ever since he became a businessman.
He was well known.
So they will have an entire psychological profiling and they will pull out something and echo it.
And then we'll say, oh, but that sounds like him.
That just sounds like what he will do.
Well, yeah, exactly, because it's tamed to fit him.
So we need something much more, much more tangible.
Yeah.
Bill, further thoughts of yours?
Well, I'd have to see more, Tim.
I can't.
Yeah.
It's just not.
There's no argument either way.
I'd like to look at the court cases and all that stuff.
Yeah.
And you, Bill, you're the guy who goes into the actual fact, scientific facts, numbers, bits and bites.
You don't do faces on people.
No, I do.
That's exiting.
Well, I mean, I've, I mean, have you ever had Tarex?
Have you ever been in Tarex where you have people coming in and dissectors and immigrants, you know, things like that?
They tell you all kinds of things about the people they think you want to know about, like the Russian military, the Soviet military, that kind of stuff.
And you go through them.
Half the time, you can't believe these guys because they're making up historians.
So you have to figure out what they're saying is right and what is wrong.
And part of it they would say would be right.
And that would add credence to what they're saying.
But when you look at some of the other stuff, it goes way off the deep end, you know?
So.
Well, Mark Twain said it's easier to fool a man, convince him he's been fooled.
I'm going to be relieved if I've been fooled in this case, because, I mean, frankly, he's acting guilty, and there's so many different indicators that he is guilty.
And Katie Jansen is one example.
I found her very plausibly.
Catherine has given great reason to consider that it might all be a staged event and that this could be a psyop.
And I'm open to that.
I mean, obviously, I was resisting it because I felt you hadn't heard enough of Katie.
And there is more.
I pulled, this was an abbreviated TikTok.
There's a longer, it's about twice as long.
So is there anything of Katie where one can see her face?
I don't know.
I don't know.
We could certainly look.
I could see if I could do a search.
If you actually, you know, send it to somebody who's a professional body language expert.
Microexpressions are just a small part.
The whole body talks.
Now, I am not a professional, so I have to just really go by, you know, something that to me looks so blatant and then hold on to that.
I don't have any systematic training in it.
But yeah, I think already with the face blurred out, a professional body language expert should be able to read so much more.
Also with voice, voice tone, pitch, interruptions, you know, self-comforting, gaps, hesitations, all that.
So I think we can settle if she's saying the truth or not based on even with the face blurred out.
One question I have is if this is all true, why do you think it has never been brought up as ammunition against Trump?
Well, a lot of Democrats were in the Epstein files.
Barack Obama, who is explaining Barack Obama was the worst of them.
Oh, it was Roberts, you know, Guffrey, who said that Barack Obama and his buddies, George Clooney and who is the other, were the worst in abusing the girls.
I mean, I think there's an awful lot of celebrities and prominent figures in the Democrat Party who are going to go down hard when all this comes out, Catherine.
And I don't think there's any way it's not going to come out.
I don't think they can stop it now.
The floodgate has been opened.
We'll get to the heart of it.
I mean, I'm open to your critique about the gaty performance here, as you would characterize it, even though I find it persuasive myself.
You're making such good points.
You're a guy.
I have to say, you're a man, Jim, which is credit to you.
You have an open mouth and it just shows you that you're not a total bastard.
It really speaks to your positive credentials as a person.
But woman to woman, I'm like, honey, don't put that.
Another way to put it is I'm a gullible sap.
No, no, it's just that women, I mean, look, it's like this.
I do that all the time.
No, it's not the insult.
It is really credit to you guys.
But the truth is that women talk so much more among women.
And I have heard so many women talk about actual sexual assault to me.
I've heard about, you know, there's another case where I came with a certain case to some other women and they opened up what happened to them.
And there's a certain pitch, a certain rhythm, a certain way women talk about stuff that really affect them.
It could be bereavement, it could be anything.
And I have not heard that from this woman.
And there's another pitch where people, especially, you know, the classical case that I mentioned recently of a female student using her female charms to talk a male colleague into letting her copy her work.
And I spot it because the two little hapless rules have the same typo in their mathematical equations, right?
So I probe and then you find out that this beauty doesn't really know anything.
She can't actually reproduce the logical steps, but the guy knows it.
So there were cases where I figured out that Women have told this, right?
So they copied somebody else's homework.
And the pitch, and the rhythm, and the self-comforting, and all these pauses showing insecurity and also, you know, discord, internal discord, because they know they're lying.
It fits the case of made up shit perfectly.
And it doesn't fit a woman talking about something traumatic at all.
That's as a woman, that was my impression.
The more I heard of this woman, the less I believed her.
That's it.
The most blatant come on I ever had from a student was when I first arrived at New College, then of the University of South Florida.
I think now it's just New College of Florida.
It's on the Sarasota Bay on the old Ringling Brothers Estate, where they reestablished these beautiful marble buildings that were brought over from Italy.
I mean, you know, the circus money.
They had 400 students and 40 faculty.
And everyone designs their own curriculum with the faculty.
They all do a thesis, no grades, narrative evaluations.
So I think this was the test of the new guy where she comes in and she's charming in like a prom dress.
And she says to me, and this is about a term paper she hadn't completed.
And she was saying to me, oh, Dr. Fetzer, I'd do anything to finish this course.
And I could see she was prepared to rip off her prom dress right there on this box.
I said, well, that's wonderful because all you got to do is your term paper.
If she would do anything, there was.
There was a solution.
She went away, you know, despondent.
But I mean, I think I was being tested out, you know, by the students to see what they could get away with with me.
And I think they weren't happy.
None of my students ever tried that with me.
I don't know what the reason is.
I'm just not as good looking as you, Jim.
Nobody ever tried to bribe me with sexual favors.
Damn it.
You are a formidable woman, Catherine, and no one's going to treat you lightly.
Believe me.
But that was the most blatant come on I ever had.
You know what?
This makes me think there were a lot more, but he just missed them all to them.
They were too subtle.
You mean for me or for you?
No, I think for you.
Many, many people try.
You had the same opinion of me.
I was missing the signs.
I was missing the signs.
Could be, could be, could be.
Bill, I don't know if you know this.
Martin Armstrong, who's an economist, says a computer.
He's been noted for his projections of events, significant events.
And he's now projecting that within a year, we're going to be in World War III because the leaders of Europe want the war.
Their economies are failing.
Their GDP is dropping.
They don't even have positions for anyone to work that they want a war.
And he's saying tensions are going to begin next week.
But I mean, the guy, a lot of us think World War III is going to be upon us.
He's just being sophisticated in his utilization of a computer to make the projection.
I think he's right.
Your opinion?
I always question.
I mean, obviously he's using some kind of modeling.
Yeah, sure.
And so the point is, what's the logic in the modeling?
Yeah.
And is it reliable?
I don't know.
I mean, projecting, everybody's been projecting a potential World War III.
The closest we came was the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Yeah, sure.
We have in the past.
Yeah.
And even then, people shut it down and they set up ways and means to shut it down since then.
Well, much easier.
I don't think Putin wants to start a war.
I certainly don't think Trump wants to start a war.
Putin doesn't want to start a war.
It appears to be these European leaders who want to start a war.
And the U.S. had just sent tactical nukes to the UK.
And the question is, why?
And I say it's obvious.
So they can be used to attack Russia.
I mean, they just want a supply.
We've given all the bombs and weapons to Israel to slaughter the Palestinians and all the bombs and weapons to Ukraine to kill Russians.
I mean, it's insane.
But Trump has not put the quietist to any of this.
He could end it all by just cutting off the supply of weaponry to Israel for the genocide and to Ukraine to continue the war.
And he hasn't done it in spite of promising to end these stupid wars, you know, virtually overnight.
I mean, that's what he told us.
Yeah, but that was an impossible task to begin with.
He couldn't do that unilaterally.
I mean, he'd have to have Putin and the Ukrainians and everybody else agree with it.
Well, don't you think?
But Bill, remember, Hegset actually cut off weapons to Ukraine.
Trump apparently didn't even know about it.
And I thought, wow, he's actually following through on his promise and was going to end the war.
It was going to end the war on Russian terms, of course.
But Russia's won this war to the extent to which we can say it's been won now.
Ukraine suffered a million and a half casualties, dead.
Russia about 150,000.
They've taken all this territory.
Russia's not going to give it back.
Russia's not going to allow Ukraine to join NATO.
They also want demilitarization and denazification, which will be the hardest part.
But Russians seem to me have all the cards.
The West none.
There was even a meeting today in Istanbul, the outcome of which I haven't heard, but it cannot have been amounted to anything so far as I can see because the two sides are so far apart.
Your thoughts?
Oh, me, I just wish they could end it because it's just a useless slaughter of people.
Money.
I mean, it's a waste of human life.
I mean, wars have never really, I mean, look at it long term.
What has happened to the centuries?
What has any one war gained by any one country?
Sooner or later, another one comes along and takes it back.
As Catherine was saying of me in relation to this woman's testimony, this reflects your humanity, Bill.
You can see the colossal waste of war, but there's special interests who benefit enormously from it, the military-industrial complex, especially.
For them, it's rational.
For them, it's rational.
Here's the thing.
Regarding the European leaders, what I always see in these, especially France, I mean, look at France's track record of winning wars, right?
They are barking the loudest.
So what I see in the European leaders who are all nothing compared to the new world powers of the US, China and Russia, and India and Pakistan, I mean, really, they have not settled into their meaninglessness yet.
And their nukes are what they are holding on to.
But what I see in them is what I see in our four-pet dogs.
It's called the fence effect.
When you have, and there's beautiful YouTube videos of four dogs having a standoff around an electric gate, and they are barking at each other, and they look like they are ready to take each other's fences off.
And if somebody, you know, uses the fob and starts opening that gate and the fence disappears between these dogs, they all calm down and they're like, oh, okay, let's go.
And as soon as the gate closes again, the same four dogs are at each other, right?
As long as there's a safe defense, these people are mousing off because they know there will not be any World War III.
There's absolutely no freaking way that Europe could withstand an actual World War III, where by the way, the BRICS would align.
So keep that in mind that Russia and China have a currency block together.
The BRICS were trying to build a gold-backed currency that's going to be like kryptonite to our made-up fiat currency.
So I think what's happening is that the louder, especially France, is barking, the less likely it will be World War III.
I think behind the scenes, thank goodness, Putin and Trump get along very well and they are playing along and they're going to somehow find a sensible solution.
Besides, when I listen to it, demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine is a good thing.
Let them.
Thank God, let them.
Also, the other thing is that I'm myself, I'm a Hungarian from Romania.
So anything that affects Hungary or Romania is very close to my heart.
And we don't want to be the buffer zone anymore.
I mean, that's what we were, Hungarians.
We were right there.
The Iron Curtain was running right next to us and it was not a pleasant place to be.
So yeah, let's demilitarize it.
Regarding Romania, Romania has been remilitarized.
And I watched it live when suddenly NATO started pumping their missile defense system and all their weapons into Romania.
It was disconcerting.
It resulted in huge local corruption.
And it's awful.
So what we really need to do is have a global demilitarization.
And that's what the world class should be working on.
And one idea I would like to quote is a very quick way to achieve that is to implement globally manufactured or manufacturer liability for all the debt.
You know, you can't make a stapler.
If somebody hurts themselves with your stapler, you will get sued.
But you can create hellfire missiles and just wipe out an entire town and they can't sue you.
That would be a very quick way of doing it.
Like, hey.
And remember, the same manufacturers are selling to all of us.
So secrecy classification is not worth anything because we are dealing with one global military industrial complex.
That's really just them against us.
And of course, we need to reaffirm liability for pharmaceutical products and medical practices.
The idea of exempting big pharma for a product is an invitation to mass death, and that's what we got.
Bill, I mean, that's so absurd that that was ever done by Congress.
Your thoughts?
Well, I think Congress was implicated in the funding, the funding through NIH to different pharmaceuticals in China and so on.
They were implicated as a part of a co-conspirator, as they could be called, with a COVID problem.
What about the UN?
And the UN?
They are co-conspirators.
They are all co-conspirators.
I mean, the UN documents layout, rather creepy stuff.
And it's all related to enslavement, subjugation, you know, extermination, genocide.
They need to be held liable.
As a native hunger, what's your take on Victor Orban?
I love the guy.
Actually, those people who have really suffered from communism absolutely love the guy.
Here's a couple of things that really blow one's mind or stuff that he already implemented.
For example, he started off with, if you have more than three children or three or more children, you will not pay income tax ever again.
How about that?
Forget wealth back to the little people.
And I think now he's at the point where if you have any children, you will not pay income tax anymore.
That is kind of the antithesis to having mass immigration to import the Muslim world where people have lots of children.
And it's really just to disuse this population ticking time bomb because also the underfunded pension funds are behind the whole thing as well.
So the driving mechanism is always finance, but it crystallizes out in other policies.
So I think Hungary's solution to this problem is a very, very elegant one.
I like it a lot.
And Hungary is booming, by the way.
So my family members are traveling regularly to Hungary and Romania.
And unlike Western Europe, Eastern Europe is absolutely booming.
And they love it there.
It's very safe, very nice, organic food.
Gosh, why are we still here, Bill?
Look, this book of why the lessons go.
Here I come.
We are tied down.
We are trying to correct the evil energy.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
It's tough.
Very tough.
A Sisyphine undertaking for sure.
Listen, if I send you the longer version of the Katie Johnson and you look at the Intel stuff and dig deeper, would you be open to returning to this next week?
Every day, yes.
It's a huge issue.
It's not going to go away.
Exactly.
I absolutely, I really want to do it.
And if you send it to me today, that is what I'm going to spend the rest of the day.
I'll do it.
I'll do it.
What's a joy for me to engage in these conversations with the two of you?
It's something I look forward to every week.
And it's making my day, even if we have divergence.
And, you know, I don't learn anything from people who agree with me.
I only learn from those who have a different take as you have on Katie, for example.
So I think this is wonderful, very valuable.
And we all have a common interest in getting to the truth of the matter.
Here's an idea.
I'll sit down.
I will show my working.
I'll show my notes.
And you can try to find somebody who's an expert in body language and see what they say.
Because I'm not an expert.
I'll just give you my opinion to that.
Yeah, we're good, we're good, we're good.
Best thing to do is just release it all, release it all.
But I guarantee you 100% it ain't going to happen or only under the greatest duress because so many people are going to be embarrassed, shamed.
I mean, it goes all the way to the top in even religious organizations you would not have anticipated.
Especially religious organizations.
So there we have it.
Well, my thanks to you.
My thanks to you.
It's just wonderful to engage with you this way.
Any final thoughts you'd like to toss out before we conclude?
Well, no, except that we need to get on with exposing what's going on in government.
Yeah.
Expose them.
And we can't let what's happened in the past.
We have to look back and we have to fix it.
If we don't, it will sit there infester and get worse with the future.
You have to correct it now.
And so that everybody knows if you do this kind of stuff, you're going to jail.
Yeah.
And my final thought is that everything, including everything related to this genuine victim or not, is in the NSA databases.
Everybody's movements, telecommunications, everybody's bank information, everything is already recorded by NSA installed forever from the last 24 years.
So we can find out everything.
Including whether or not this person had connections with any of the intelligence agency or any people in the intelligence agency, any political agent, groups, anything.
Yeah, or if she was genuinely saying the truth.
This is already in the data.
That's all I have.
Well, it's Jim Fetzer concluding my real deal special report with Bill Benny and Catherine Horton, which I'm enjoying immensely.
I hope you are as well.
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