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April 18, 2024 - Jim Fetzer
01:31:00
The Way Forward Ep 85: Can You Catch a Cold featuring Daniel Roytas
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The overwhelming majority of people approach reality as if it's a well-established, irrefutable fact that disease is spread via the fluids of a sick person.
From the time that we're a little kid, for virtually anyone, we're told to stay away from others when they're sick.
We're told that when someone is sneezing and coughing, having diarrhea, throwing up, etc., etc., that they could pass something to us and we might get sick as well.
But Has this idea that fluids from a sick person cause disease or illness in a healthy person been established empirically?
Is it actually true?
Are there other explanations for the phenomenon of two or more people getting sick in the same space with similar symptoms?
Of course, if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you already know where I stand on this issue and you know that I've recorded a number of episodes related to terrain-based health and the pseudoscience of the failed germ hypothesis.
For those of you who are new, this may sound absolutely crazy that I'm even questioning this or my guest Daniel Roytas has written a book on it, but as you'll find out during this episode, There's a lot more to this topic than what we've been told, and I think that this is one of my all-time favorite episodes.
Daniel Roytas trained as a naturopath, nutritionist, physical therapist, and psychotherapist.
He was a lecturer and senior lecturer of nutritional medicine at various colleges and universities around Australia for over a decade.
After realizing the issues with the natural medicine industry, Daniel resigned in 2022 to focus on discovering the truth about health and wellness and educating people about what he had found on his platform, Humanly, and you can find more about his platform in Daniel's book in the show notes.
He recently released a book, Can You Catch a Cold?
Untold History and Human Experiments, which challenges the idea that colds and flus can be caught.
So, in this episode, we focus on the details of his book.
Obviously, you could probably tell that by the first part of my introduction.
And we also discuss common questions that arise within the holistic health and health freedom community with respect to the germ versus terrain discussion, which is becoming an increasingly hot topic of discussion amongst our communities.
And again, if you've been listening to this for a while, you know where I stand.
If you've watched the end of COVID, you know where I stand.
And I'll also throw some information on the end of COVID in the show notes, because that goes pretty deep on this, but I've got to say.
Please, please, please support Daniel and his work.
What he's doing is incredible.
This book, I've not read it yet, but just based on what we discussed during this episode, I am so excited to read this book.
I know Doctors Mark and Sam Bailey have been raving about it, and I have so much respect for what they have to say.
And I know Dr. Cowan has interviewed Daniel.
And he's always been a wealth of knowledge.
We've messaged back and forth over the last four years, but this is the first time we've talked on a video forum before and he's truly a wealth of knowledge on this topic.
And the research he has done is really, really paradigm shifting and incredible and just lends more credence to what we're coming to understand that the entirety of the germ paradigm is completely unproven and pseudoscientific.
And I'd like to ask that if you're watching or listening to this episode and you have the means to do so, please order a few copies of Daniel's book so that you can help spread this important information across the earth, infecting the masses with the true knowledge of health and disease.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
Daniel, man, I have been looking forward to this conversation for a long time.
I have been watching you from afar, been a huge, huge, huge fan of your work, and I can't believe this is the first time that we're talking on a Zoom call literally ever because, you know, we've messaged back and forth here and there.
We're on some chats together, but I think, correct me if I'm wrong, this is the first time we're talking on a Zoom call together, right?
Even, you know, individual or group setting.
Yeah, this is our first time.
I think we've been sort of chatting back and forth, as you said, for quite a few years now, probably since 2020.
So it's really wonderful to finally get to chat to you in person.
Yeah, I wish it was actually in person, but you're halfway, you know, across this plane of existence.
So unfortunately, maybe at some point in time, we'll get to that.
Man, it's all in good timing though because you've just launched a new book called Can You Catch a Cold?
And I'll just add some of my initial two cents and then we'll just get going in the conversation.
I think over the last three and a half to four years, a lot of us have been caught up in the so-called molecular details of what's going on.
And I and many others, and I would bet this largely applies to you, have sort of come to the conclusion that yes, it's important to discuss that to sort of take the claims of, you know, virologists, molecular biologists, really anything in the fields of
Surrounding cell biology and scrutinize them, but even a step above that with respect to what you and I both know is the failed germ hypothesis, without getting into molecular details, this idea that fluids from a sick person can cause illness or have been demonstrated or are known, you know, because this is such an entrenched paradigm in society that it's like we know That, you know, being around someone else when they're coughing and sneezing, if their particles get on us, that's going to cause illness in us.
We know that, like, that's what the overwhelming majority of society, even the overwhelming majority of the health freedom community, I will say, you know, that People are trending towards our direction, but the overwhelming majority of the health freedom community, holistic health community at this point in time, thinks largely along those lines that we already know that fluids from a sick person cause illness in us.
And that itself is also totally unproven.
So is that kind of the direction that you go with this book?
Yeah, I go in various different directions with the book, but the prevailing underlying theme addresses this idea that you can get sick from being in close proximity to another person who's sick, or being exposed to their bodily fluids.
So they've coughed or sneezed on something and then you've not come in contact with them but come in contact with the fluids and you pick up something from the fluid and make yourself sick.
This is the prevailing idea that's in the forefront of everyone's minds for the last four years and our lives really, our whole lives.
We're born with this idea that you can catch something from someone else If they're sneezing or coughing, you better stay away because you don't want to catch their flu.
And we grew up with this idea and we believe it wholeheartedly.
A lot of focus has been put on this idea of like, or trying to demonstrate the isolation of viruses.
Yeah, that we must prove that these things exist.
to demonstrate that they actually do what we're told, that they cause disease.
And I do focus on this on the book, but I really wanted to know, are there studies, is there hard evidence, empirical evidence, observable, demonstrable, repeatable evidence that shows That when people do come in contact with sick people, they get sick.
And those studies do exist.
They have been done.
And time and time again, they've essentially failed.
I won't say that they failed in every single instance, because they didn't.
And in those situations where they didn't fail and people did get sick, I couldn't find evidence of a germ being the cause.
Even though I looked, even though I went into this with an open mind and was willing to entertain any and all ideas, I couldn't find evidence for that.
So what I had to do was go and look for other evidence that might explain why people in those situations got sick.
And I talk about what those reasons are in the book.
And they're not my beliefs.
They're not my speculations.
All of the things that I mention in the book are referenced in the medical literature.
They have been shown to cause Flu-like illnesses.
And once we understand that, it brings into question this idea of viruses being the cause.
Because if there are multiple other reasons why people get sick above and beyond viruses, then you can't blame everything on a virus.
And to blame everything on a virus, You must disprove all the other possible causative factors before you then jump to this viral causation theory.
You can't simply just jump to viruses and say, yeah, it's definitely a virus when there's half a dozen other known things to cause exactly the same disease presentations.
Right.
I mean, that's what we saw at the beginning of, quote, COVID, is that a patient presented himself in Wuhan, China, and they already had the preconceived idea, given that he had tested, quote, negative for other viral illnesses, that, oh, this still must be a viral illness, so let's send off his sputum sample to, you know, be tested for maybe a new virus.
And this preconceived, this presupposition Yeah, there are.
consequences.
And again, that's, you know, assuming that there wasn't other intentions, and this was all just by happenstance, because of these unfortunate preconceived ideas.
But the point being that there are major, major, major consequences for this line of thinking.
Yeah, there are.
And most people don't know there are other explanations.
They are of a one track mind of this unwavering belief that it's all down to a virus, where nothing could be further from the truth.
There's so many other reasons why people get sick.
Even when people get exposed to bodily fluids, there are other things in bodily fluids that have been demonstrated to cause illness that are not viral.
So, in the early 1900s, They started doing some of the first human experiments on influenza where they took bodily fluids from sick people and they started to inoculate it or squirt it into the eyes, nose, throat of healthy people.
And in these experiments, people got sick.
They got symptoms of a cold and flu.
And as you said, they presupposed that it was a virus.
So they made this leap of logic that there's a virus in this person, it's in their respiratory system.
When we take the mucus out and put it into a healthy person and they get symptoms, it's because we transmitted a virus.
And that's the conclusion that they arrived at.
But they didn't know that there are other things like inflammatory chemicals inside mucus.
So when you get a cold and flu, the thing that causes those symptoms isn't the virus.
It's actually your body.
So your body releases these inflammatory chemicals to cause coughing and sneezing and mucus production.
As a means of expelling whatever irritant you've inhaled or been exposed to.
So this is a similar type of thing with an allergy.
Yeah, you get exposed to a pollen, the body releases and has an inflammatory response and you get the allergic response.
So same kind of thing with a cold or flu, the body releases these inflammatory mediators and you get the symptoms.
Now, unlike viruses, Scientists have taken so- They say they've isolated these inflammatory chemicals.
Maybe they have, maybe they haven't.
I don't know.
They say they have in these experiments, and they've exposed people to pure samples of, say, bradykinin or histamine or various types of prostaglandins, and it causes, reliably causes, symptoms of a cold or flu.
So we're talking sneezing, coughing, fever, headache, sore throat, right?
Exactly the same kind of symptom presentation as the flu.
And when you get sick, the level of these inflammatory mediators increases 30 times in your mucus.
So if you're taking mucus from someone who's sick, healthy person, you have to prove that it's not the increased levels of those inflammatory mediators in mucus that are causing the illness.
If you're going to say it's a virus, you have to disprove that potential confounding variable.
And there's also other things in there as well that you'd have to demonstrate that aren't causing the symptoms, but this is just one example.
And they didn't know that these things existed in the early 1900s.
So they just jumped to this conclusion that it's a virus.
But if they knew that the mucus was full of these inflammatory mediators that just conveniently happened to cause the same symptoms as a cold and flu, maybe they wouldn't have been so eager to jump to these erroneous conclusions.
But even so, with respect to these examples where there is a substance inside the fluids of a sick person that has the potential to cause illness in another person, this is still a very, you know, relatively small number of cases in which they have successfully demonstrated that there is something inside the fluids of a sick person
That causes symptoms to arise if exposed to another person, correct?
I don't think this happens naturally.
Right.
I don't think that you can sneeze on someone and their inflammatory chemicals go inside you and causes an illness.
That's sort of not what I'm saying.
These are examples of where you're taking something that, you know, the fluids of a sick person and like stuffing it halfway down their throat or scratching, you know, essentially their esophagus or something like this, trying to elicit symptoms because again, they already have this presupposition.
Yeah, these experiments don't reflect the natural mode of transmission.
So they are putting people in close proximity in some of these experiments and getting them to cough and sneeze on each other, but nothing happens.
It's only when they take massive amounts of this snot, mix it with saline, and put it into their respiratory tract that they get these symptoms.
And there's so many doctors who have been asking these questions of how do you know it's not Nacebo?
How do you know it's not the act of inoculating something into a person's respiratory tract?
How do you know it's not an inflammatory response or a chemical response or a physical irritation?
So doctors are asking these questions today, but actually doctors were asking these same questions about these experiments when they were being done.
So they were publishing their critiques in the medical literature at the time going, you guys can't claim it's a virus because you got this and this and this and this.
You got to disprove all those things first.
So yeah, I'm not saying that being like someone coughing on you is going to make you sick from being exposed to an inflammatory mediator.
It's more that These things probably do exist in the snot and by doing that unnatural Exposure method may be one reason why people develop symptoms.
Of course, there's other things as well, like the power of belief.
Oh, I'm getting snot.
Someone else's snot squeezed up my nose.
That could potentially induce a placebo or a nocebo-induced illness.
There's all kinds of different reasons why, but Yeah, these were the sort of the early experiments and then they became more elaborate over time where they did these sort of person-to-person experiments where they put healthy people in contact with sick people and they didn't have much luck there either.
Yeah, and we're talking a large number of experiments, correct?
How many have you documented?
Maybe about 204 experiments in total.
70 papers that I found over the last 100 years.
And within those 70 papers, there's 204 experiments that have been documented.
The majority of those failed.
So one of the major findings that we report in the book is that the modal contagion outcome or number.
So when we're talking about the mode, we're talking about the most frequently occurring result.
So the most frequently occurring result is none.
Zero.
Zero contagion.
So what that means is if you were to conduct an experiment where you put sick people in a room with healthy people, the most likely outcome that you will get is that no one gets sick.
So the experiments that did show people getting sick was a very small number of experiments, and those experiments weren't controlled.
So I think there was like, out of all these experiments, I think it was some ridiculously low number Maybe like 17 or 20 people out of the thousands and thousands and thousands of people that have been exposed in these ways in various experiments.
Got sick with a cold or flu.
That's pretty shaky ground to base a claim that transmission between healthy people and sick people occurs.
Over 100 years, hundreds of experiments and 17 people got sick and even then they weren't controlled so you can't rule out things like nocebo or Can you explain for the audience the importance of controls and what you're getting at here?
Because we're talking there were no double-blind randomized controlled trials where a subset of the group was receiving something they thought was fluids from a sick person but were not fluids from a sick person or were being exposed to people who were not sick, right?
Yeah, like this is another finding of the book, is that the total number of randomized placebo-controlled trials demonstrating human-to-human transmission is zero.
Zero.
These experiments do not exist.
They might.
I haven't found them.
You've been looking pretty hard.
I've been looking hard.
You've been looking hard.
Right, right.
Dozens of us have been looking hard.
Someone that I know who helped me edit this book and critiques my work as a virologist and microbiologist.
He's been looking at this since 2014.
He can't find any either.
So there are many of us who can't find these experiments and you would think that for such a generally accepted phenomena that this information should be readily available.
Yeah, you said about controls and why they're important.
You need a control to ensure that the methods and the procedures that you're employing in your experiment aren't confounding your results, which means that You're not basically creating the results you're looking for, but there's some flaw in your methodology that's contributing to the results that you're getting.
So when you control, you can actually say, ah, okay, it's this step in my scientific methodology that's actually causing my results.
It's confounding the things that I'm observing.
And they don't do that in these studies.
Now, Sometimes they use saline, but that's what we call negative control.
It's not a positive control, which would be bodily fluids from a sick person that contain everything, including inflammatory chemicals, but not a virus.
So I was searching high and low to try and find experiments where they got people with allergies and they took mucus from them and exposed it to healthy people and see what happens.
But But even then, what's difficult about that is it's still begging the question of virus with respect to virology, right?
Because these things have never been demonstrated to exist inside the fluids of a sick person in the first place.
So even if we were to make concessions in that example, we'd still have to beg the question and Cater to them that, okay, we'll make concessions and say that, agree with you and say that you've actually demonstrated that there's a virus based on some inferential data or some test that you used before, which is again, based in circular reasoning.
If they're going to conduct a PCR test on someone to confirm that they have a quote viral like illness before they are then put into these experiments.
Well, yeah, you're right.
You would have to prove first the existence of the thing you're claiming is the cause, which hasn't been done to my understanding.
It may have been.
Again, I don't want to make any positive claims.
I'm just presenting the information in the book in such a way that people can read it and make up their own mind.
Because I might be wrong.
That paper might exist and I might have missed it.
But here's the thing.
The claim is that when you're in close proximity to a sick person, you get sick.
They've tried that and they haven't been able to demonstrate that conclusively.
Now, there have been instances where people have gotten sick, where they've been in contact with a sick person.
However, they haven't accounted for the nocebo effect.
Which is the power of belief that, essentially, when we're born, from the day we can walk, we're told, if you're close to someone who's sick, you will catch their illness.
So you're told by people in positions of authority, like your parents, doctors, teachers, the government, that this happens.
And one day, inevitably, you're in contact with someone who's sick, and then you get sick, and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It confirms your belief that this is true.
And you go through the rest of your life believing this.
So when you go into an experimental setting and you're putting contact with sick people, And you get sick, you have to control for that to demonstrate that the power of belief or nocebo wasn't the underlying cause.
And in the majority of these experiments where this did happen, this effect did not occur above and beyond the rates of inoculating people with saline.
So between about 10% to 30% of the time, people inoculated with saline.
They didn't know what they were getting exposed to, if it was mucus or saline or whatever.
10% to 30% of people got sick.
And the rates of people falling ill when put in contact with sick people never exceeded those numbers.
So you can't, even if you do see this effect occurring, you can't say it's anything else but the nocebo effect until you prove otherwise or you control for it.
So one way that you could do this is by putting healthy people in a room with sick people, telling them that the other group is sick, and then seeing what happens.
Or, You could do other experiments where you get people to come to the Center for Optimal Health and Wellness, and you physically take snot from sick people and say, we're going to inoculate you with a health-promoting substance that actually improves the function of your respiratory tract, and then proceed to inoculate them with the so-called infected fluids and see if it makes them sick.
They've never done these so-called control experiments.
And in fact, they've done experiments to the contrary, where they've had people in clinical settings, they've said to them, hey, look, we're going to expose you to some fluids of a sick person.
They give them saline and they get sick.
They believe that they've been exposed to the fluids.
They get a cold or flu.
And the next day they come in to the room and say, tricked you.
We got you.
We didn't give you snot, infected snot.
We gave you saline.
And the person gets better within an hour.
So they manifested those symptoms with their mind.
So that alone detracts from any of these small number of positive results that are observed in these experiments.
And sorry, I don't mean to go on, Alec.
I'll give you the full back in a minute.
No, no, this is great, man.
I mean, you're the guy who wrote the book, so I love it.
I'm just sitting here letting my wheels spin in my head on the directions I want to take this.
You know, an interesting thing that comes up for me is in the examples that I've read myself, and I think I've read I'll say 30 of these papers, give or take myself, that are attempting to demonstrate transmission or contagion.
And in virtually every one that I've read, the people who are involved in the experiment are aware that they're being exposed to something that is going to elicit symptoms of illness.
And even so, you know, taking into consideration the placebo nocebo effect, Largely, they don't become sick, even with their awareness that they are being like, take, for example, the Rosenau experiments during the Spanish flu.
These were 100 volunteers who were, you know, in their minds, I'd imagine this is, you know, me applying what I think would have been going on at the time, but that, hey, we're going into these Spanish flu wards for the 13 of them who did, where there's a bunch of people who are sick on their deathbeds.
And we're going to be exposed to them and talk with them at close range.
And despite that, none of them became sick.
So what's so interesting about this is, of course, I acknowledge the placebo nocebo effect, obviously, like how can you not?
But even with that as a factor, this paradigm is still failing horribly.
Horribly failing to produce the results that back up their claim.
Yeah, I found some newspaper articles, actually, because I thought the same thing.
It's like, isn't it interesting that the nocebo effect didn't work in those situations with the Rosenau experiments?
And for anyone listening, these are a group of... They're probably the most comprehensive human contagion experiments ever produced by the US Department of Health, which is now the CDC, and the US Navy after World War I, where they exposed sailors to Sorry, yeah, World War One.
They exposed healthy sailors to people with Spanish flu in every way imaginable and couldn't make them sick.
So yeah, there was a curious absence of this nocebo effect in these experiments, but I actually found newspaper articles that went and interviewed the doctors of these experiments.
Of the Spanish flu experiments, of the Rosanau experiments themselves?
Yeah.
Wow, okay.
Yeah.
And they said that the reason why there was no contagion was because the soldiers couldn't get what they didn't fear.
And they literally say in these newspaper reports that if you eliminate the fear of the flu, or the fear of contagion, you eliminate the fear of getting sick.
Thank you.
So they literally say this in these newspaper articles.
So those soldiers went into this with no fear.
I'm doing this for the betterment of humanity.
I'm doing this because it's going to help people.
I'm going to help these doctors out.
I'm going to find a cure.
I have no fear.
No fear, no illness.
And just another side note that I wanted to mention earlier was that they have done experiments where they expose people to the bodily fluids of healthy people and people got sick.
So this act of inoculating things Squirting foreign substances into people's noses is sufficient in and of itself to produce an illness.
So it doesn't have to be a viral thing.
There were also experiments done by the Common Cold Research Unit.
So this was a unit established by the United States military.
In combination with the United Kingdom government after World War II.
So they had a field hospital over in the United Kingdom that this United States military donated to the UK government.
And they turned that into a research facility to try and find the cause of colds and flus.
Now, in these experiments, when people went there, they knew they were going to a place called the Common Cold Research Unit.
They knew they were going to be exposed to germs.
And I think, despite their most desperate attempts, they could only ever make in the best outcome.
30% of people sick.
And this wasn't all the time.
They had to try really hard to get 30% sick.
Most of the time they got results of zero.
Wow.
But that's the nocebo effect.
I'm going to a place that's called the Common Cold Research Unit.
I'm going to be exposed to germs by men in white coats with fancy equipment in a clinical setting and it's all very serious and I want the researchers to find the results they're looking for so you manifest the symptoms.
They were well aware of this.
They talk about this in their papers that it's very difficult to eliminate this effect, this nocebo effect, this power of belief, and it confounds their results.
And I find all this really interesting that even when they try desperately to make people sick by putting them in contact with sick people or exposing them to their bodily fluids, They couldn't do it.
This goes against everything we're told that this phenomena actually occurs.
So that in and of itself, even if it does occur, it's incredibly rare.
Not enough for things like pandemic or to explain pandemics.
Right.
And even if it does occur, don't worry about it.
Because the likelihood of it happening is almost zero.
Right, right.
The mode... I think it's zero, but yeah.
Yeah, well, I mean, based on what you've discovered with your 204 studies, the mode is zero, so that's important to know.
So, I think a lot of this is largely attributed to, I guess you could chalk it up to things that we don't quite understand, which is, you know, kind of what we're getting at here.
What they claim to know, they have no evidence for, and we're kind of sitting in a state of Well, now let's explore and try to figure out what's going on with all of this.
But with that being said, it's largely a product of something to do with our psychology, let's say.
So when it comes to the mass psychogenic effects of something like a, quote, pandemic, how does that apply with what you're discussing here?
Yeah, mass psychogenic illness, which is basically a spread of a disease with no known cause.
This has been documented 60 times in human history, maybe more, but 60 well-documented cases of instances where people got sick with the same symptoms at the same time.
They couldn't explain what it was.
So we're talking about things like the Tangikia laughing outbreak or pandemic that happened in Africa in the 60s or 70s.
Can you go into more detail on that, please?
Yeah, the Tangikia laughing pandemic was a school in Africa.
I can't remember exactly which country, but schoolgirls there started laughing uncontrollably.
To the point where they were physically incapacitated.
They felt like someone was chasing them and they broke out into fits of laughter where they couldn't do anything else.
And it started to spread from one child to the next.
So pretty much within a week or two of this happening, the school had to close down because nearly all the students, or a large percentage of the students, were affected by this condition.
Now, when the school closed down, they sent the students back to their hometowns, or their tribes, villages.
And when that happened, it spread to the villages.
And then it started spreading to other villages in the area.
And this went on for over a year, and it affected thousands of people.
Now, this isn't a viral illness, clearly.
Yet we see something spreading between people.
Now, what was the cause?
I have no idea.
I don't think anybody knows.
We can hypothesize what those causes might be, but I'm pretty certain We can safely say, it's not a virus, but what this demonstrates is that things can spread.
Ideas can spread, behaviours like laughing or crying or yawning, anger, frustration, happiness, joy.
These things can spread.
This is social contagion.
Or in some instances, mass psychogenic illness.
No pathogen required.
And actually, that's the chapter in the book.
No pathogen required.
And we document all these cases.
We go through and talk about social contagion and how that works.
So yeah, here we have a phenomena where it basically mimics contagion.
with an absence of an infectious particle that acts and behaves and has all the hallmarks of a viral pandemic.
So that in and of itself should really get people questioning what we're told about pandemics, that they're viral in nature.
The other thing that I will say quickly is that there are also documented instances in the medical literature Where the media have reported in the news, on the television, newspaper, magazine, social media, of... There was an example in New Zealand, where there was essentially an antidepressant drug that came off label.
And all these people who are on this name brand drug were then moved onto this sort of off, sorry, went off patent.
And they went onto this generic brand drug.
The media started reporting that the generic brand drug is associated with all these different side effects.
And I think they listed six or seven side effects, right?
The list of side effects was actually like 20 or 30 things.
But they had a massive influx of adverse reported events from this new generic name drug that people were taking, reporting only the symptoms that the news was telling them about.
They didn't report any of the other 20 or 30 side effects.
that are on the package insert for this drug, curiously, they were only getting the side effects that the media was telling them that they would experience.
Now, if you extrapolate this out to a pandemic where the media, the government, the medical profession are in full force, in full swing, in lockstep, telling everybody, the world over, the same message.
There's this deadly pandemic.
You're going to experience these symptoms at this particular time.
It's hitting this location.
This is how long you're sick for.
This is what to expect.
Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.
Here it's coming, it's coming, it's coming.
Get ready.
What's going to happen?
People are going to experience these same symptoms because they're being told to.
This is, again, social contagion, mass psychogenic illness, the nocebo effect.
If you took that out of the equation, and there was no media reporting in 2020, nothing would have happened.
So yeah, take all that information for what you will, make of it what you want, but I think it's very telling as to what may have gone on, not just with the 2020 pandemic, but all pandemics in history.
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You know, it's interesting to apply this to the idea of a, quote, lab-made virus.
And what I mean by that more specifically is, first off, I did a custom Google search From December of 2019 through April of 2020, April-May of 2020, and I typed in gain-of-function virus and the amount of mainstream articles that were openly discussing gain-of-function and the possibility that quote SARS-CoV-2 came from a lab in Wuhan
was pretty amazing like i'm talking dozens and dozens and dozens of results so this idea amongst the alternative side that gain of function was censored is completely untrue i think it was cleverly seeded at the very beginning to sort of put this in the minds of the masses and especially the conspiratorial again justifiably conspiratorial thinking alternative people who then carried that message forward
And so when we're constantly being fed this message, I wonder how much of this mass psychogenic illness also could be attributed to the symptoms supposedly associated with a quote gain-of-function lab-made virus that many in the health freedom space can't get over this, you know, what we both know is an affirming the consequent baked in with a circular reasoning logical fallacy in that
I was sicker than I've ever been therefore that is proof of a virus or I experienced these symptoms and I'd never experienced these symptoms before loss of taste and smell and therefore that is proof of a virus and again the whole point is no one is denying that you experienced symptoms of illness what we're trying to determine here is where is the empirical evidence where's the real world evidence
That these sets of symptoms are caused by a submicroscopic pathogenic particle or, you know, setting viruses aside or a microbe in general.
And that's, that's what we're getting at here.
No one's denying that you caught, that those symptoms were experienced.
And I just, I just wonder how much of this can be applied to this quote synthetic feeling that people had or this like synthetic illness.
A lot of people sort of throw out those words with respect to the symptoms they felt over the last four years.
Any thoughts on that?
Yeah, look, with all the lab leak stuff, the synthetic virus, there's a virus in the vaccine.
I mean, all this stuff is purely speculative.
To be honest, I haven't really looked into this very much because the foundational claim is that a virus causes the illness.
Now you have to prove that the virus exists first.
Once you've proven that, then what that means is there must be a cellular structure, there must be a mechanism inside the human body that allows for a particle to infect you, hijack your cells, the cellular machinery, and then make copies of itself.
But if no viruses exist, that mechanism is unproven.
That means we probably don't have this mechanism inside the human body that allows for such a thing to take place.
So without that mechanism, you can't create something that hijacks this mechanism.
It's a non sequitur really.
I mean, it's really kind of, as you said, it's a logical fallacy.
Um, and yeah, this is sort of, I haven't gone down that path with the book.
I've really focused on, can things be transmitted between people?
That is the claim, and I can't find evidence for it.
With respect to social contagion specifically though, this like, because this idea of a very synthetic feeling illness with, you know, like, because a lot of people in the health freedom space have shared these sentiments, and I wonder if that Came about largely because of the effect of social contagion.
Like because people were talking about this feeling and this type of illness that they hadn't seen or experienced before.
So many people were talking about that.
So I wonder if this social contagion aspect plays into the actual manifestation of these quote weird symptoms.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Sorry, I probably didn't address your question properly.
It's all good.
I love that you showed, I know that it was subtle, but like subtle disdain for this gain-of-function idea, and I do too.
When people bring this up, I'm like, you're talking about gain-of-function on something that has never been demonstrated to exist in reality.
It's like talking about manipulating a unicorn that you found in nature in a lab to create a different type of unicorn, to quote Jordan Grant.
That's, I think, his favorite mythical creature to cite.
But the point is, like, you can't even talk about gain of function on viruses if you've not first proven viruses.
But yeah, I meant this more in terms of the social contagion aspect of the symptoms that are attributed amongst the health freedom community to a, quote, Man-made virus.
Yeah.
This has been demonstrated, this effect, in numerous experiments, this social contagion effect.
So just by telling people what to expect, they will manifest those symptoms.
It doesn't matter what the symptoms are, You can get people to manifest cold and flu symptoms.
You can get people to manifest symptoms of altitude sickness.
You can get people to manifest all kinds of things.
Giving people sugar pills and telling them that it's cancer treatment and their hair falls out.
This has been documented as well.
Yeah, I've documented all these different things in my book.
Like even cases of people with inoperable tumors that are riddling their body the size of oranges all over their body.
And they get a drug that they believe is an anti-cancer treatment and the tumors shrink and go away and the person is better in a month.
Documented in the medical literature.
So the power of the mind is incredibly powerful.
We don't give ourselves enough credit for that.
Here's another example.
There was this university professor in Turin, in Italy, that wanted to take his students up to the top of the Italian Alps.
And he wanted to test this social contagion effect.
I think there was like 60 or 70 students that wanted to go with him on this trip.
He told one student that When you go to a certain altitude in the Alps, you develop these certain symptoms.
Like a headache and nausea and these kinds of things.
And the only way to cure it is with a very specific dose of aspirin.
Now, he only told one student.
That was a couple of weeks before they went on the trip.
Just before they went on the trip, the professor had a very large percentage of students concerned contacting him going, oh my god, I'm really scared of getting this illness.
Can you tell me what dose of aspirin I need to take to prevent it?
Now, what he found was that those students who contacted him, who he hadn't told about this mysterious altitude sickness, Um, they actually experienced the worst symptoms when they were going up the mountain.
And they had, he measured their blood for inflammatory chemicals.
And they had the highest levels of inflammatory chemicals than anyone else in the group, compared to the students who didn't contact him, who weren't concerned about it.
Right?
So he told one person, it spread throughout the community, this idea, and then they manifested a severe illness with their minds.
Um, So yeah, if you're told that there's this synthetic virus, there's this lab leak virus, and you're going to get these symptoms, of course you can manifest it with your mind.
You can manifest basically any symptom with your mind.
As you said, this effect is strong enough to make people's hair fall out.
It really is incredible.
It's strong enough to reverse cancer.
So if it's powerful enough to do those things, Why can't it make your nose a bit runny?
Why can't you manifest a loss of smell or taste?
These things don't seem unfathomable to me.
You know it's interesting too anecdotally is a few people that I know that experience this phenomenon of extended loss of taste and smell were able to reverse it doing some meditative practices and some let's say psychosomatic based stuff dealing with with the mind which is you know really interesting and it sort of lends credence to what you're talking about here this being a product of the mind and
Without getting into the, you know, the nature of reality, but it sort of leads one there.
I think that's where this ends up going.
The more that you go down this line of questioning of, like, what comes first, matter or mind, right?
And I don't want to go there for the sake of this conversation because I still have some questions, but I know that we've talked offline briefly about that.
The thing that I see happen quite a bit, again, speaking largely to the health freedom space because that is my audience, I don't think I'm trying to convince normies at this point, but I'm really excited to get your book into the laps of people because I know that the way you carry yourself and the way that I've seen you write before, that this is something that you could deliver to virtually anyone and it'll probably make sense.
Because my audience is not that.
I've had a lot of people who have heard some of the talks that I've given or maybe they watched just a little bit of the end of COVID.
I'm thoroughly convinced they did not watch the whole thing because if they had there's you know there's just There's just no way they could still possibly conclude, in my mind, that viruses exist absent of, you know, a strong belief on their part.
But that will say, well, I have two, three kids, or my kids go to daycare, and I see illness spread through my house, and I know that it's a virus.
Or, you know, I was Someone who was not careful and I slept with a bunch of different guys and then I got an STD and I know for the sake of your book We're talking about can you catch a cold?
But you've also focused on this and I don't know if it's covered in the book with respect to other so-called Transmissible or contagious illnesses.
So do you have any thoughts on that?
Or is that something that you cover in the book?
Yeah, I had a whole section on other infectious diseases where they essentially failed to transmit measles, scarlet fever, chickenpox, these kinds of illnesses.
Even in the early 1900s, there were hospital wards where researchers were bringing or putting people with chickenpox, children with chickenpox, into wards with healthy children.
And Very seldom, like we're talking a very, very small percentage of the time, other children got chickenpox.
So it wasn't like all of the healthy children in beds next to each other or in beds next to sick children with chickenpox got ill.
It didn't happen.
It was this very, very rare occurrence that it actually transmits.
Even to the point where the research was like, I don't think these infectious illnesses transmit through the air because you couldn't make it happen.
And then they went as far as like cutting out chicken pox scabs and putting it in people's noses and Cutting holes in their arms and putting the scabs into other people's arms and all kinds of stuff.
And they never made anyone sick with any of these illnesses.
You hear this claim that my kid went to school, picked up something and brought something home and then it spread to the rest of the family.
It doesn't mean that an infectious particle was spread between people.
So you are also exposed to other common factors, other common environmental factors.
Here's something really interesting.
Around the same time as the flu happened in Wuhan, in China, of 2020, there was a thing that happened called the temperature inversion.
Now, it's early in the morning here, so I hope I get this right.
It's where usually during the day the sun heats up the earth and the air becomes warm and the hot air rises and it takes away the air pollution.
So the air quality is not so bad.
But when a temperature inversion happens, you actually get a pocket of cooler air sitting over the top of this warmer air and keeps that warmer polluted air close to the ground.
Now, This happens when there's changes in humidity and temperature, essentially.
There's a thing called PM2.5.
I'm not sure if you've heard of this.
Particulate Matter 2.5.
It's like the most harmful particulate matter in the air.
It's very, very small in size.
We're talking like brake dust or pollution from factories and this kind of thing.
Tire dust from cars, exhaust fumes, this sort of stuff.
PM 2.5 is very, very harmful to the human body.
Even like bushfires and things create a lot of 2.5 in the smoke.
The currently accepted level for human exposure is five parts per, I think it's five parts per million or micrograms per gram or something like this.
Five parts per million, let's call it.
That value might be wrong, but it's for the sake of the conversation, five parts per million.
In China, when people started getting these respiratory symptoms, a temperature inversion happened, and it trapped a lot of the smog over cities that are already heavily polluted, that already have poor air quality.
And it increased the level of pollution to over 700 parts per million.
So the acceptable level is five.
The yearly average, yearly daily average should exceed no more than 15.
Yet we had people walking around in 700 parts per million.
I think they say somewhere around like a couple of hundred, maybe two to 300 is the equivalent of smoking Hackets of cigarettes per day.
So if you're walking around in 700 part per million air quality, of course it's going to make you sick.
And this happened in 2019.
It also happened in various other pandemics in areas where people got sick.
So people living in that city would have started getting respiratory symptoms Was it really because something was spreading between them?
Was it really because little Johnny went to school and picked up something and brought it home and now you're all getting sick?
Or was it because you're all breathing toxic air?
There's also this, um, like another example of common environmental exposure, Alec.
Again, I documented this in the book.
In 20... I can't remember the exact date.
2017, maybe around then.
There's so many different dates and stories that I talk about in the book.
A mother brought her children to an emergency department with symptoms that were diagnosed as strep throat and scarlet fever.
So the doctors believed that this was a transmissible childhood illness that had spread between the siblings.
So it was a brother and two sisters.
They gave them some antibiotics and sent them home.
Their symptoms started to get worse in the next few days, and the mother took the children to another emergency department for a second opinion.
Turns out that the children had been playing with a vial of mercury.
They dropped it on the floor, it broke open, and the mother came with a vacuum and tried to vacuum it up.
And that heated up the mercury and dispersed it through the air.
Now the small children, obviously being lower to the ground in their smaller body size, inhaled some of this mercury vapour and they got poisoning.
Now the mother's obviously larger, she can take a lot more inhalation of mercury and they won't be as adversely affected.
So she didn't get symptoms.
But the children did, and this is why the doctor said it was a childhood infectious illness.
But the second emergency department medical doctors realized what had gone on and diagnosed it as mercury poisoning.
They went through and started doing chelation therapy to get rid of the mercury.
And one of the children ended up having permanent damage because the treatment was delayed because they thought it was an infectious illness.
So here's an example.
By the way, in this paper they explicitly say how mercury exposure can mimic symptoms of a childhood infectious illness.
They can't distinguish between mercury exposure and these so-called symptoms of scarlet fever.
So yeah, was your child really bringing something home or was there something in your home that you were all commonly exposed to?
Was there a common stressor?
Was there a common air pollutant?
Was there a common environmental factor?
Was there a change in the humidity or temperature, which are also known to induce cold and flu symptoms?
There's so many other things that you have to account for before you jump to an infectious particle.
Right.
Yeah.
Wow.
You know, it's interesting too, because With respect to polio let's say for example a lot of I would say most people in the health freedom space have concluded that that was all fraudulent and it was largely based in environmental toxins like DDT and or I guess agricultural toxins like DDT and lead arsenic and
It's just interesting that people can't wrap their heads around to the reality that largely this could possibly apply to all these other things.
At the very least, that the so-called cause that the authorities say is the cause has never been demonstrated to be the causative agent.
What a lot of people will then say after the virology paradigm has been falsified, right?
It's a thoroughly debunked, totally failed hypothesis at this point, and I would say largely the germ paradigm as well.
But they'll either they'll say okay well viruses might not be the cause then it must be a bacterial infection or a lot of people a lot more people are doing this and this one gets on my nerves so bad is oh everything is caused by parasites.
It's not a virus causing all these symptoms.
It's a parasitic infection causing all these symptoms.
So, and again, I know you've covered this quite a bit.
I don't know if it's covered in the book, but because I know you've covered this quite a bit elsewhere, I just wanted to sort of lead you to discuss that.
Yeah, I know I covered parasites in the presentation for the end of COVID, I only care about the truth, essentially.
And what I presented in the end of COVID, I was talking about parasites as if they were real things and they detoxified heavy metals and they were there to do a job.
I actually did a presentation, I've got my own sort of health hub and I do presentations for my members where I take a deep dive onto a subject and I just recently did one on parasites actually.
And my perspective has changed since talking on the end of COVID.
Wow, that quickly.
Yeah.
I appreciate that about you, man.
I appreciate that you continue to just dive into topics and continue looking.
It's really cool.
As I said, I just care about the truth.
Right.
This is why I don't hold any position so preciously.
If someone came to me with a paper saying, hey, Dan, here, cold and flu is a contagious, here it is.
And I look at it and go, okay, I was wrong.
Like, I'll recant my position.
Parasites.
I don't actually think they're there to clean up a mess.
I think what we've seen with the issues plaguing virology, we also are seeing with parasites.
So I'm not talking about worms, helminths, these larger organisms that you can see with a light microscope.
Like all you can see with the naked eye.
I'm not talking about these things.
They clearly are real.
I'm talking about the single-celled, so-called single-celled prokaryote parasites.
Like Blastocystis homini or Cryptosporidium or these things.
I question whether they are even real entities.
Because when you look at the literature, pathologists have a really difficult time distinguishing between parasites, these single-celled parasites, prokaryotes, and artefacts
And other things that are contaminating the sample, like pollen grains, or yeast, or dirt, or dust, or cells, or fragments of cells that are native to a human being, peach hairs in people's feces, fat globules.
And this is a really well Acknowledged problem in the field of parasitology is that pathologists have a really hard time distinguishing between these so-called artifacts and parasites.
Now isn't it interesting or how convenient that the parasites that they're so-called looking for are indistinguishable from other things that they're also finding in the feces samples of people?
Surely they would have their own unique characteristics that would be easily distinguishable from other things.
For example, they thought Blastocystis homini, which is a parasite which is blamed for a lot of gastrointestinal problems, They thought that was a yeast for 70 years.
Just a yeast spore.
Until the 1970s, when they turned around and said, oh, it's not a yeast, it's actually a parasite.
So, yeah, I think, again, the issues that we're seeing with virology, as soon as you start trying to go microscopic, sub-microscopic, I don't think anyone knows really what they're looking at.
Certainly, they haven't To my understanding, taking pure samples of these parasites, expose them to healthy people and showing them to cause disease.
Even things like malaria, for example.
It's crazy, man.
When they take samples from people, they use these various reagents.
What was the name?
There's these various reagents.
I can't remember the name of them off the top of my head now, but it's just so convenient.
It just so happens that the reagents that they use when they're staining these samples to look for the malaria parasite cause artifacts which are indistinguishable from the parasite.
It's just like, what are you guys doing?
It really is just, it's just crazy.
So yeah, this is where I'm at at the moment with parasites.
I really sort of even question whether or not they exist and they do what we're told that they do.
Worms and stuff, yeah, they're real.
You can see them with your eye.
You can get a light microscope and check them out.
That's not a problem.
But these other ones, I have many questions.
Right.
And I wonder with respect to those worms, if, you know, I won't make a broad statement here, but if for some of them, they are still doing a specific role to remediate your terrain.
Yeah, they bioremediate and biotransform.
That's what their role is.
So, uh, In nature, earthworms, mealworms, there's various different types of worms, have been shown to consume toxic substances, even things like plastic, pesticides, heavy metals, and transform them into non-toxic organic substances.
Who's to say that the worms out there in the soil that are doing this, and they're even proposing using these worms to bioremediate polluted soil, who's to say that those worms aren't doing the same job as the worms in our gut?
So we know that we're exposed.
People are eating so much microplastic, you're getting about a credit card-sized piece of plastic through your food and water every week.
Crazy.
Now, we know that these worms break down plastic and convert them into organic substances, which can then be used as a fuel source for other organisms.
We also know that the presence of these worms inside the gut protects the host tissue and organs from the absorption of these harmful substances across the gut wall into the bloodstream.
Some papers are even calling these worms sentinels.
They are the guardians.
They are the watchers at the gate.
They are keeping the stuff out of the system to protect the organs from damage from this stuff.
They're not there to cause disease.
They are there to protect you from the ill effects of these things that you're being exposed to.
So if you're getting exposed to a credit card-sized piece of plastic every week, of course worms are going to take up residence inside your gut to break this stuff down.
And like a real life example here, we've got some goats out the back that went across to the neighbor's land and they spray pesticides on their crop.
Now, those goats have been in perfect health.
As soon as they went and ate some of the crops on the land that's been sprayed with pesticide, they started getting worms.
You could literally see the worms crawling in their feces.
Now, did they just get a chance infection from a parasite or was that parasite put there either by nature or by the body to gobble up the pesticides that were sprayed on the food they were eating?
As soon as we fenced off that area and we prevent them from going onto the neighbour's land, parasite infection went away.
So we didn't give them any parasite treatments or anything like that.
They went away of their own accord.
So I think this is what we're dealing with when it comes to these worms and so-called parasites.
They're there to help us.
They are sentinels.
They are our friends, not our foe.
Yeah, beautifully said.
And for those who are listening or watching, I don't want to get off on this topic because this is another rabbit hole, but it largely applies as well with respect to bacteria, fungi, and mold.
There's They are there to bioremediate, let's say.
And there's this whole thing about a pleomorphic cycle.
We cover that during the end of COVID, and I'll be having the Bigglesons on sometime later this year, hopefully.
We'll probably cover that then.
And just know that this applies elsewhere, too.
So, Daniel, I have a question for you.
Based on the studies that you've come across to this point, again, let's make an assumption here.
That you've come across all of the studies that have attempted to demonstrate the validity of the germ hypothesis.
Would you say, to your knowledge, at this point in time, the germ hypothesis has been, again, based on the information that you have at this point, sufficiently debunked?
I don't want to say anything 100% conclusively.
As I said, I'm always willing to change my mind on things.
I'm open to all possibilities.
The information that I've come across doesn't lead me to that conclusion.
I went into this with an open mind.
I just reported on exactly what I found.
I didn't go into this with any preconceived ideas or I didn't want to achieve a certain outcome.
I was actually hoping that I would find stuff that would allow me to conclude that germs cause disease because then I can just go back to sleep.
I need to go back to my normal life.
I don't have to worry about this stuff anymore.
But I found a lack of evidence demonstrating contagion.
I'm talking about viral contagion here.
Now, this is not to say that it possibly doesn't happen.
Those papers may exist somewhere hidden in the dark recesses of the medical literature.
But until such time as that information is brought forward, I don't think we can make any firm conclusions that these diseases like the cold and flu are contagious.
Beautifully said.
Beautifully said.
And I appreciate your You're refraining from making positive claims about this because from a larger perspective here, what you, Tom, Andy, myself, all of us are simply doing is we're analyzing the claims of those who say that it is this way, and here's the evidence we have that it is this way, and simply saying there's no evidence.
actually that it is this way you have not sufficiently proven that it is this way and that has huge major implications like life-saving implications for all of mankind and you know a lot of people will reply respond to me like You know, I'm not going to get the shots anyway.
Like, why does it matter whether I think these things cause illness or not?
It's really not that big of a deal.
I've even had it, you know, I spoke at a conference in January of 2023 and it was a conference based on solutions and I spoke on this topic.
And afterwards, I was approached by one of the organizers and he had told me that I'm really disappointed in you.
I don't consider this topic to be a solution.
And my response was, I don't understand how you can't possibly see that this is a solution.
This is this with respect to health.
This is the ultimate solution because it's realizing that your level of health, again, based on what we have come across this far, is almost 100%, if not 100%, in your control.
And you do not have to be worried that other people around you who are exhibiting symptoms of illness are going to cause you to become sick.
And that would then mean all of the medical tyranny that we've Uh been exposed to over the last four years and beyond and the entire CDC childhood vaccine schedule and really the entire approach of both alternate or both uh allopathic and the overwhelming majority of alternative approaches to health are severely flawed because they're all coming from this foundation that is based in you know total nonsense.
This is like the ultimate solution because it sets us on a path of beginning, and I want to emphasize beginning, to explore how all of this actually works.
Yeah, you're right Alex.
I mention this in the book.
Even if there are germs that make you sick, If you believe that they're going to make you sick, they're going to make you sick.
If you don't believe they're not going to make you sick, they're not going to make you sick.
So irrespective of whether they exist or not, it's a moot point.
It's more about what's going on here.
And what that means is you are in control.
You have control over how you respond and react to things that you're exposed to in your environment.
Whether that be a germ, an idea, a thought, A toxin, a poison, a food, whatever that might be.
You have control over this.
You have autonomy over your body.
I think that it's possible germs have been used as a scapegoat for the deleterious and harmful effects caused by exposure to poisons, toxins, pollution in our environment.
So without a germ, you then have to look for the true causes of disease.
And when people realize that actually it's the poison in your water, it's the poison in your air, and your food, and in your thoughts, and on social media, and just basically the poison
On all aspects of modern Western society that is making you sick and not a germ, that automatically means that you have the power to minimize your exposure to those things and then do things to help eliminate the things that you have been exposed to from your body to help heal yourself.
It's incredibly empowering.
It means that there's not something lurking in the shadows just waiting to pounce and disease just happens by chance and it's a random occurrence or it's down to your genetics and doesn't matter what you eat or what you think or what you feel or what you do, that you're going to get sick anyway.
It's actually the opposite.
We've just been disconnected.
We used to know this stuff.
We've forgotten it.
And hopefully, over time, people will reconnect with this information that we've been disconnected from.
And people become motivated, empowered and inspired to take control back over their own health.
Amen.
So well said.
You know, it's in addition, I want to make an addition to what you said with respect to us now having to look for the true causes because germs have been the scapegoat.
The exciting thing for me, and I know you've spoken on this as well, is we have to start looking at the sort of metaphysical underpinnings for all these things, especially with respect to the phenomenon, the phenomena, rather, of
You know, at the very least, we don't see anything physically that could be causing this to happen, like this laughing situation that you referred to in Africa.
What is the cause of that?
And that's where it becomes a really interesting pursuit that leads you to questioning the entire nature of reality itself.
I know that's what it's done for me at least as I've started going down this this rabbit hole and looking at things like Gerald Pollack's work and and Gilbert Ling and Veda Austin and then Eileen Mikusik with respect to the human bio field and sort of all these things and how they play into
The you know presentation of symptoms and how we all as human beings relate to each other and to our environment and it's such a fun creative pursuit and I just want to get as many people as I can joining in that creative pursuit trying to explore how really all of this works and um man this was This was one of my favorite episodes I've recorded in a while.
Like maybe one of my favorite episodes, maybe because I'm like so passionate about this topic, but you're, you're so articulate and eloquent and it's clear you've done your due diligence and it's, it's just really refreshing to hear how you're so open.
Like even between the end of COVID and now you've continued to explore Parasites and you've completely changed your perspective and you admit that and it's just really refreshing.
We need more people like that.
You've set such an incredible example.
I should have asked this at the beginning and this will be my last question because I want to respect your time.
What were you doing before all of this and how did you come to, you know, discover all of this information?
I was a lecturer at a university for 10 years.
And toed the line with all the ideas and concepts that were taught about health and the human body, but from a so-called natural medicine perspective.
But looking back on that now, it's actually a green pharmacy perspective.
Right.
Because I think that the field of natural medicine has been infiltrated and it's being systematically dismantled.
So yeah, that's what I was doing.
I got exposed to the terrain theory back in my undergraduate degree in 2006, I think, or 2007.
So hard to have to go back and actually sit down and look at all my manuscripts and find out what year it actually was.
I'm just sort of going off memory here.
I got exposed to this idea.
My immunologist lecturer was talking about the fact that germs don't cause disease.
And I thought, what nonsense?
Germ theory has been proven.
And I have basically operated from a germ-terrain duality for most of my professional career until 2020.
Like you said, you heard Tom and Andy talking about this.
And it immediately resonated with me.
I knew it was the truth.
But being in the position that I was in as a lecturer and giving lots of public presentations and talks, I knew that if I was going to talk about this as an educator, I better do my due diligence and make sure that what they're saying was correct.
So I started looking for experiments to prove contagion.
And this is where the book really started, was back in 2020.
I just started accumulating all these hundreds of experiments until Roman Bistrianic The author of Dissolving Illusions said, hey man, you've got like this massive repository of information.
You should really write a book on this.
And that's where the journey started for me.
But it's gone further than just writing the book for me, Alec.
It's made me realize that health is actually really simple.
It's not complicated.
It's not hard.
There's not thousands of different diseases.
There's not thousands of different causes of diseases.
The body can heal itself, I believe, from anything.
Within reason, obviously.
And we've just forgotten this.
This is all old ancient knowledge that our forefathers knew that has been developed over thousands of years since the time of people like Hippocrates.
And we got to a point in the late 1800s where we knew all this information.
Doctors called themselves doctors because the word doctor means teacher.
And when you're a teacher, what that means is you're teaching curriculum that has already been established.
You're teaching knowledge that is already there.
So doctors knew all of these things.
It wasn't a mystery.
It was there are seven or eight things a human being needs to survive and thrive.
If you aren't getting those things, then you're not going to be well.
Those things are really simple.
They're free.
They're easy to access.
They're basically all the things in nature that we need.
And then they also knew that exposure to poisons and toxins cause disease.
And they would just educate their clients on how to get the things or how to make dietary and lifestyle changes to get the things that their body needs and how to avoid and minimize and eliminate the things that they've been exposed to that their body doesn't need.
And that's really as hard as it needs to be.
The body does the rest.
Mother Nature does the rest.
And I've come to this conclusion that, yeah, natural medicine is not... People need to be very careful.
Natural medicine is not what it claims to be.
It's a far cry from what it once was.
All of this stuff is actually far more simple.
People have the power to heal themselves when they're armed with this basic knowledge.
And yeah, this is sort of where I want to take the work that I'm doing is to move away from this focus on germs and virology and whatever, because I mean, there are bigger and more important things that people can benefit from by learning how to take care of themselves.
And as I said, becoming motivated, empowered and inspired that good health is achievable.
It's not unattainable.
And just simplifying it right down and demystifying it and taking all the uncertainty out of healing the body and reversing illness.
Amazing, amazing.
Man, thank goodness for you.
Thank goodness for you wanting to explore all of this stuff, because it's people who paved the way for us to, I guess you could say, remember.
Because, you know, as I've learned, Ayurveda, even chiropractic in its foundation, they didn't consider germs as a causative agent.
Traditional Chinese medicine, they didn't consider contagion to be a real thing with respect to germs passing from person to person.
This is truly ancient knowledge and it's people like you who are helping us remember.
So thank you so much, man.
Thanks, Alec.
I've had a really wonderful time chatting with you and hopefully we can do another one soon and maybe get into some of the nature of reality stuff.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
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