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Dec. 30, 2021 - Jim Fetzer
49:55
The New JFK Show Part 2 (29 December 2021) with Gary King and Larry Rivera
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Welcome everyone to the new JFK Show number 263.
We're going to be going into the second half hour of Oliver Stone's Through the Looking Glass and we're going to be critiquing it.
Though, I think we're already criticizing the heck out of it last week, but we're going to see what we can do and we're going to get the screen share going.
Well, there's nothing there so far that hasn't been known for 50 years, Gary.
This is embarrassingly bad, embarrassingly bad.
I'm going to demonstrate after we watched the first half hour and everything so far in this was known by Jim Garrison.
And in the first six minutes, I'm going to play a six minute clip and he's got all of it.
Now last week, they also had.
You know, Ruby supposedly shooting Lee Oswald.
Now, why wouldn't you talk about the bag and things like that?
Look, if we're trying to really wake people up, now's the time.
And to be honest with you, I'm really getting upset.
I mean, when you have all this and they're saying there's strong evidence of a conspiracy, you know, I mean, we can't be going back to the beginning.
You're not full screen yet, Gary, and I know you want to go to the second half hour.
You want to go 30 minutes in, so.
A mountain of evidence.
Yeah.
All right.
Let me get this going.
Hang on.
There we go.
All right, folks, we're going to the second half hour.
And by the way, that's Whoopi Goldberg doing the narrating.
Yeah.
In case you didn't know.
Jim DiEugenio does not talk in here that I know of.
All right, here we go.
It's going to be painful, boys.
Okay, let me get my mic.
And we're good.
Here we go.
Liquor Carcano 6.5 millimeter for $19.95.
Robert Frazier was one of the examiners.
He was a firearms expert for the FBI, and he testified that he did measure it in the measurement with 40.2 inches in length, barrel to stock.
There's a 4.2 inch difference in the one he ordered versus what they found in the book depository.
Kleins may have indeed delivered a different Mannlicher Carcano model to Oswald, but there are other anomalies to this story.
The model that Oswald ordered showed these strap attachment points on the bottom of the barrel and stock.
In the photograph is Lieutenant Carl Day with the Dallas Police Department bringing a rifle out of the book depository.
One of the straps at the back of the gun is on the left side of the stock embedded in the stock.
That's clearly not the rifle that was ordered or at least appears in the Klein Sporting Goods store.
The straps shown in the so-called backyard photos are on the bottom and not on the side of the stock.
Marina Oswald took backyard photographs of Lee Oswald holding a rifle and a pistol on his hip.
And in that first photograph that she took three of, Commission Exhibit 133A and 133B, Show a ring on the ring finger of the right hand.
133C, the ring appears on the left hand.
In fact, the Dallas police showed Lee Oswald one of the pictures while he was still in custody.
He said, that's my face, but I don't remember ever having that picture taken of me.
But after all these questions are asked, the underlying mystery remains.
I have to, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Pause it, pause it, pause it.
All right, fellas.
Yeah, I have to take issue with that because Lee never said, I never remember having taken that.
Right.
He said it was his face pasted on someone else's body and he knew something about photography with time he'd be able to prove it.
Exactly.
And notice how this guy is saying Marina took the photograph.
Another fallacy.
Which is ridiculous.
She didn't take the photographs.
Nobody took the photographs.
They were faked.
Right, right.
Well, we know.
Well, the other thing is, if you're going to bring out the thing, and we said this last time, if you're going to bring out the thing about the rings, why not go, you know, for the bullseye and deal with the matte insert of Roscoe's body with Lee's inner face.
I mean, it's the perfect example because we see it in the autopsy photos, Jim.
It's the exact same technique.
Right, exactly, Larry.
They didn't have to mess around with anything outside, you know, just this here part of the face, you know, and obviously, you know, right above the chin.
So they're not only crimes of commission, because they're saying things that are false, but of omission, leaving out the most powerful proof, which appears to be the style of this And the fact that Roscoe White isn't even mentioned in this, Jim, I think that's atrocious.
If you really want to rock the JFK world, then you would include Larry's work about Roscoe White.
I mean, isn't that something after 50 years?
Gary, don't forget it.
White, Jack White, is the one who started that.
And before that, Sam Jaffe, who did the garrison tapes.
Right, where Jackie used the newspapers with known dimensions as an internal yardstick and concluded that either the guy who was standing was too short to be Lee at only 5'6", when Lee was 5'10", or when they faked the photograph, they put in the newspapers too large, which is what happened.
And the wrist with that bone.
The bone that didn't heal properly that Jim Barnes and I talked about.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, that's how to give it to the first generation guys.
And Jack White was one.
And so was Jim Garrison.
I'm going to show you that later.
Here we go.
It was a paper trail that would lead right back to them.
Was there a palm print found on the rifle?
The foremost fingerprint expert the FBI had, Sebastian Latona, took that rifle and attempted to lift prints off of the rifle, the stock and or the barrel.
He testified to the Warren Commission that he found no usable prints anywhere on that rifle.
on the metal or the stock.
But yet, Lieutenant Day in Dallas, before the rifle went to Washington, said he found a partial palm print on the trigger guard on the left side and a partial print underneath the stock on the barrel.
But Sebastian Latona said there was no evidence of a lift that had even been attempted.
No partials at all?
Nothing that he could use in court.
There has to be eight points of identification.
He found nothing that would match that.
Let me add, by the way, that they appear to have made a substitution in the rifle that went to Washington when they transferred all the evidence.
And these phone calls with Lyndon and Hoover were scripted.
And Hoover was so bad, Lyndon had to bring him back to the script.
I mean, it's embarrassingly bad.
Here we go.
He fired three shots.
He then threw the gun aside and apparently had come down the five flights of steps.
That's their way.
They took four.
You can prove that?
Oh yes, you can prove that.
Did anybody hear, did anybody understand it?
From the time that I heard those shots and ran into that building and made it up to the second floor, it was approximately a minute and a half to two minutes.
told the police officer, worked safe, he didn't ho
go. That's how I got out.
shots, ran into the buil up to the second floor. I
minute and a half to two less than two minutes. In
the school book building and quickly go on.
Not only police and government agents traced that room, Chief Justice Warren and some other commission members did it for themselves.
I was interested in finding a specific witness to the assassination, which was Victoria Adams.
She worked on the fourth floor of the Texas School Book Depository and she knew Oswald.
I went to the National Archives searching for her original testimony.
I was told that the tape containing her testimony was missing.
And later I learned that that tape had been destroyed by the Warren Commission.
And so I finally ended up finding her and getting her side of the story.
Vicki Adams was 22 at the time of the assassination, and she testified that immediately after the assassination, she ran down the back stairs to get outside to see what was going on.
If that were true, she would have seen Oswald on the back stairs.
But she testified that she saw and heard no one.
She had realized that something was wrong, because no one was believing her.
So she asked David Bellen, who was questioning her, interview Sandra Stiles, a co-worker who went down the stairs with me.
This became a rather serious problem for the Warren Commission, because discrediting one woman was easy to do.
But discrediting a cooperating witness, that may have been a little bit tougher.
So, Bellin said, we don't need Sandra Stiles, we have you.
We've had Mr. Bellin here with us too.
One of our counselors has been here several times.
He knows this city now as very few people do.
According to Vicki's original FBI testimony, she left the window on the fourth floor within 15 to 30 seconds of the assassination.
The Warren Commission elevated that time to one minute.
She said she arrived on the first floor within 60 seconds of the assassination.
The Warren Commission elevated that time to several minutes.
So what the Warren Commission did was successfully deceive the public into thinking that Vicki was just another confused witness.
Case closed.
Reenactment proved, the report says, that Oswald did have time, just enough time, to fire the shots, secret the rifle, and get down to the second floor.
This is just so ridiculous!
The highlight of this new documentary is Walter Cronkite talking about it, what, 20, 30 years ago?
Give me a break.
Can you turn the level down just a little bit, Dr. Fetzer?
We're getting absolutely nothing new here that everyone hasn't known forever, even the girl on the stairs.
That's well known, Larry.
There's nothing here.
Well, there is, but they didn't present it, Jim, because the Vicki Adams story and Sandra Stiles is very, very compelling, but what they don't mention is that When they reached the first, the second, I mean, the first floor, who do you think they encountered there?
Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley, okay?
And we're talking about minutes after, so the famous Daniel film, I mean, not Daniel film, but the Martin film, which shows, remember the Billy Gorilla Man in the doorway?
Right.
Which actually happens about 10 minutes later, okay?
But the importance of Vicki Adams' testimony or story is that she encounters Billy and Shelly, Lovelady and Shelly, inside on the first floor, okay?
And where the timing with the Martin film would not have worked, okay?
Uh, I know that, uh, I can't have the screen, but we did a show on Gorilla Man that, uh, where Amy Joyce, remember, found him in the Z film.
And, uh, yeah.
And of course, Lee said he was out front with Bill Shelley.
And of course, Billy was right beside him.
So that's corroboration of what Lee said, where he was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so that's also what they don't mention there is, uh, You know, what, Vicky Adams also testified as to meeting Shelly and Lovelady there within, uh, as soon as they came down the stairs, you know what, a couple of minutes after the assassination where they had been in the parking lot, you know, looking at things and then came right back in, you know, and then waited for a roll call, you know, et cetera.
And then they helped, uh, search the, uh, the building when the police came in.
So, uh, there it is.
Okay.
A document in the National Archives that had been suppressed for 35 years.
It was a letter written by Assistant U.S.
Attorney Martha Jo Stroud.
It was a transmittal letter forwarding Vicki's signed testimony to J. Lee Rankin, the head honcho of the Warren Commission's investigation at that point.
In the last paragraph of that letter, almost as an afterthought, we're introduced to a woman by the name of Dorothy Garner.
Garner was Vicki's immediate supervisor, who had stood at the window with Vicki.
The letter quotes Garner as saying that she saw Vicki go down the stairs before she saw Officer Baker and Roy truly come up.
When I found an interview She confirmed everything.
She said that she had been at the window with Vicki, that Vicki had left the window immediately, that she actually followed Vicki outside the office and to a point where she could see her going down the stairs.
And during that whole time, she never saw Oswald.
So the Stroud letter became a very dangerous document for the Warren Commission.
Without the review board's declassification process, we would never have learned of the corroborating testimony of three witnesses that provide powerful evidence that Oswald was not on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting.
This is Earth Shattering!
Legally speaking, the autopsy should have been done in Dallas.
And there was a forensic pathologist, Earl Rose.
He was there to assume jurisdiction and to do the autopsy.
He was pushed up against the wall and threatened.
Hands on guns, a lot of expletives and so on.
He followed them out the driveway and they took the body illegally out of Dallas in violation of the laws in the state of Texas.
After Air Force One left Dallas for Washington, two of the key doctors who had tried to save Kennedy's life at Parkland Hospital held a press conference.
They were Dr. Malcolm Perry and Dr. Kemp Clark.
What were the two major points of evidence revealed by Kemp Clark and Malcolm Perry at the press conference?
Dr. Perry performed the tracheotomy to help Kennedy breathe.
And at a press office, right after the failed resuscitation efforts in Dallas, he was asked, he said, well, where was the bullet?
And he said the bullet looked like it was coming at him.
He had an entrance wound in the throat.
Kemp Clark was the head of neurosurgery at Parkland.
He said that the president had a gaping wound in the occipital parietal area.
That's, you know, the right rear of the head.
And so the description he gave of that was entirely consistent with an accident.
We have a transcript today of what they said at the press conference.
So it's White House transcript 1327-C.
That's a very important historical document because the Secret Service confiscated the videotapes from the local TV stations.
There is, however, a surviving clip of Dr. Perry recorded not long after the press conference.
Arriving at the emergency room, Dr. Perry had placed a tube in the President's trachea to assist his breathing.
There was a neck wound, a tear lane, and a large Yeah, right, posterior area.
What Clark and Perry both revealed that day would indicate an assassin from the front.
And Assistant White House Press Secretary Malcolm Kildoff's statement seems to support this conclusion.
It was a simple matter of a bullet right through the head.
The day after the shooting, Dr. Perry was seen by Nurse Audrey Bell, who had been with him in the operating room.
Saturday morning, when I got over there, Dr. Perry came up to the office.
I said, you look awful.
Did you get any sleep last night?
He said, well, not too much between the calls from Bethesda that came in during the night.
I said, what about?
He said, oh, Whether that was an entrance wound or an exit wound in the throat, he said there was one big change from that.
In his Warren Commission testimony, he basically retracted what he had said and they forced him to back down and intimidated him on the witness stand.
It was really quite embarrassing for me as a physician to see how someone else who was telling the truth was basically forced to recant his own opinion.
Did it occur to you at the time or did you think, was this an entry wound or was this an exit wound?
Actually, I didn't really give it much thought, and I realized that perhaps it would have been better had I done so.
But I actually applied my energies, and those of us there all did, to the problem at hand, and I didn't really concern myself too much with how it happened or why.
In 1975...
Dr. Shires hired me on the faculty at the University of Washington in the cardiac surgery division.
So I got to know Malcolm when I joined the faculty.
We developed a professional relationship and we would operate together on complex cases.
And I was particularly interested in Dr. Perry's position with the JFK assassination because he did the tracheotomy on him after he was shot.
The problem is that Malcolm categorically refused to ever discuss the assassination.
And he wouldn't answer my questions about that neck wound.
And then one night, after we had operated together for many hours on a complex case, we were sitting in the surgeon's lounge alone, drinking coffee.
And I once again asked him about that neck wound.
And this time, he said, It was an entrance wound.
Unquestionably, an entrance wound.
One of the main reasons Dr. Perry's changed his testimony and publicly agreed it was an exit wound is a Secret Service agent put the pressure on him, and that person was Elmer Moore.
In 1970, Elmer Moore was the head of the Secret Service office in Seattle, and a graduate student named Jim Kockenauer became friends with him.
And he admitted to Gawkenauer that he regretted putting pressure on Dr. Perry.
So I asked him directly.
I said, Mr. Moore, did you pressure Dr. Perry?
He stopped for a minute.
He says, well, I was ordered to do that.
He expanded on it.
And he said that Inspector Kelly had ordered him to.
Talk with Perry and convince him that it could be either an exit or an entry room.
Not an entry room.
And I thought it was pretty interesting that he would admit to something that's pretty close to a felony.
Elmer Moore was also in charge of getting the doctors at Parkland to change their testimony and agree that there was no big hole in the back of Kennedy's head.
Charles Crenshaw, a third-year resident, was in the emergency room at Parkland that day.
He later said in public that he felt the wounds in Kennedy originated from the front.
From here to Charles Crenshaw.
He wrote a book, Conspiracy of Silence, in the wake of the film JFK, saying, look, I was at Parkland Hospital, I saw Kennedy, was involved in the treatment, and Kennedy's wounds were not consistent with the shot from above and behind because he had a defect involving the right rear of his head.
Using the most precise medical terminology that you can use.
Okay, let's see.
It was on the right rear, and he shifted the head a little bit to the left.
lifted up the well, kind of the matted area of the flap, and you could see the hole and there was
brain and spinal fluid dripping down out of it. And then I noticed it was dripping, you know,
down into a bucket. As early as 1981, copies of the autopsy photos were leaked and distributed
among JFK researchers. The image of Kennedy's head wound contradicted what was witnessed by
the Parkland doctors.
I recall the injury being right along in this area.
Yeah, this was the HSC, you know, reconstructing the back of the head, which was absurd.
And notice they didn't even mention that that big gaping wound in that autopsy photograph was from manipulating the body, which may not have been JFK's body, by the way, but that of the stand in the major.
All right.
I recall the injury being right along in this area.
It's as if the autopsy materials were designed to hide what was really happening as opposed to what they should usually do.
They're supposed to reveal the full extent of things.
The evening of the assassination, the body of President Kennedy was returned to Washington.
The autopsy was performed at Bethesda Medical Center, a naval institution.
They don't even mention it's not actually in the casket, but being offloaded from the opposite side of the plane.
I mean, that's unbelievably bad in an expose, or what purports to be one.
Okay, here we go.
James Humes and his associate J. Thornton Boswell.
These two military pathologists who had never done a single gunshot wound autopsy in their entire careers.
This is something that really has to be emphasized to every American.
I don't care Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative.
This is your president and you've got multiple gunshot wounds to determine angles, trajectory, range, sequence, and then you got to correlate with the multiple gunshot wounds in Connelly.
This is a formidable task that would have required two or three major forensic pathologists to undertake.
So they called Humes and Boswell.
They realized they were over their head.
They called in an expert from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, a guy named Pierre Fink.
Dr. Humes and Boswell started the autopsy before their forensics consultant even got there, but they realized they were in over their head, so they asked to have a medical examiner, because Dr. Fink, who was a forensic pathologist, wasn't doing autopsy.
He hadn't done one in more than two years.
So they asked for permission to bring in somebody who knew what they were doing.
Permission was denied.
There were a lot of people at the Bethesda morgue.
The latest count by all the researchers that I know of is about 33 people.
There was a gallery, bleachers.
Apparently all three rows were filled with people.
These three autopsy pathologists were given a body, told here's the body, shot from behind, he fell forward, which they wrote in their autopsy report.
Let's talk about those two wounds, Captain.
the known circumstances of the shooting.
But what this really speaks to is the fact that the autopsy was not in the control of
the surgeons that were charged with doing it.
It was in the control of people who were there who were telling them what they could do and
what they couldn't do.
Let's talk about those two wounds, Captain.
Sir.
You examined this whole area of the back.
No.
Yes, sir.
So, on the night of the autopsy, the Humes and Boswell said, hey, we've got a bullet hole in the president's back, which they examined with their finger, then with an instrument, then took x-rays, then took out the lungs, and no bullets.
In a murder case, that is a very serious problem for them.
So where did that bullet go?
Well, just like you say, a work of fiction.
A call came in from the FBI in Dallas.
A bullet was found.
Daryl Tomlinson, a maintenance man at Parkland Hospital, trying to get to the men's room, passing by the ER, found the stretchers blocking the way, bent down, moved the stretcher, and there was a bullet.
How did that bullet get there?
Humes and Boswell came up with this totally absurd conclusion that when the president lay on the stretcher, supine position, and pressure was applied to his chest for cardiopulmonary resuscitation, that pressure applied anteriorly, forced a bullet, which had gone deeply into the tissues, back out through, like a tunnel, in and out, record and reverse.
But, but, but, it hadn't gone far into the tissues.
Cut, cut, cut!
It was only about the second knuckle of your little finger, and I believe we did a whole
show about Sam Kinney, a Secret Service agent who acknowledged having found the bullet in
the back seat and taken it inside the hospital and put it on the stretcher and declaring
no one could reveal what he had done until after his death, confiding in a neighbor whom
he trusted, and now we have the story.
It was Sam Kinney who found the bullet.
Why they would claim it was deep in the body, as Cyril is describing here, is ridiculous,
because it was only shallow, like the second knuckle of your little finger.
That's how it worked out so easily.
And another thing, Jim and Gary, when you see the film JFK, one of the major misconceptions
of the movie is that Jack Ruby might have been the one that planted it, because that's
you see the scene where the guy that plays Jack Ruby goes by the stretcher and surreptitiously
puts it there on the stretcher.
It sounds like a Grodin thing.
The bullet becomes encased, but that was their conclusion.
Keep in mind, they did not know that there was a bullet hole in the front of the president's neck.
Commander, now, Captain, how many autopsies have you performed?
Approximately 1,000.
It wasn't until the next morning when Humes decided, hey, maybe we ought to talk with the surgeons at Parkland Hospital.
Earlier that day, he might've done a thousand autopsies, but he never did one on a gunshot victim before.
Neither had T Thornton Boswell.
And here's the throat wound that was exaggerated.
Yep.
Here we go.
Until the next morning when you decided, Hey, maybe we had to talk with the surgeons at Parkland Hospital.
Earlier that day, the doctors at Parkland Hospital had determined that the bullet had fortuitously ripped through the tracheum. So they enlarged
that bullet hole. Now they learned the first time that there was a tracheostomy superimposed
upon a bullet wound.
Uh-huh, said Humes and Boswell. Now we know. He shot and fired from the rear.
It's unbearable to watch it.
This is awful.
2000 feet. The second comes up, then stops, sees the starched white collar, gets frightened to
death, and pops into the front of his clothing. And that's where the bullet came from, found by
Thomas. This is so god awful. It's unbearable to watch it.
This is awful.
Why would you say that?
Go ahead, Gary.
I mean, Larry, don't you agree?
This is just terrible.
I mean, this is insulting.
We're still on the magic bullet theory.
That bullet has now gone through Kennedy, through Connolly, and now...
We're still on the magic bullet theory.
We're what, 45 minutes into the movie?
The hero of the Warren Commission is now from Connolly's left side.
How is that possible?
It's unbelievable.
Which is scientific evidence that the wound was made from behind and passed forward.
Dr. Humes destroyed his original autopsy notes.
Now, Dr. Humes, the chief autopsy pathologist, and what we all know as doctors, notes taken while you're doing something are much more important.
Gary, move your cursor.
You're leaving this thing up here.
We don't want to see it.
And he admitted that he destroyed autopsy notes.
You destroyed your original notes in a medical-legal autopsy?
And remember, that night, Oswald is still alive.
You're gonna be asked, doctor, at some point in time, under oath, to give sworn testimony.
Why did you destroy those notes, doctor?
Doesn't a pathologist keep his notes?
And he said, well, I destroyed my own autopsy notes because they were splattered with the president's blood, and I didn't want them to become objects of morbid curiosity.
The third doctor, Dr. Finkel, was there, also wrote some notes and complained bitterly about the fact that his notes disappeared, too.
He was so upset because he had to go home and reconstruct all of his notes from memory.
The two FBI agents at the autopsy, Frank O'Neill and James Seibert, they reported what they heard during the autopsy, what they heard the pathologists say, specifically Dr. Humes.
They were interviewed by Arlen Specter, In early 1964, he proceeded to write very unfavorable comments about them in a summary memo for the record.
We know with confidence that why he didn't like what they had to say because they were providing evidence that the single bullet theory could not be true.
Neither Seibert nor O'Neill were asked to testify for the Warren Commission, and their written notes became classified.
In 1997, their depositions were taken by the Assassination Records Review Board.
Both Seibert and O'Neill.
We're showing the photographs of the back of JFK's head, the autopsy photographs that are the most controversial.
And they both said that they didn't see anything like that at the autopsy.
O'Neill had said, it looks like it's been doctored.
I don't mean the photo's been doctored.
It looks like the head has been put back together, you know, by embalmers and then photographed.
That was what he said under oath.
Seibert did not remember drawing a diagram of the wound.
for the House Committee, so he drew a new one for the review board.
And it's one of our most important wound diagrams, and it shows what could only be an exit defect
in the right rear of the skull.
There's a piece about the size of a three-by-five card that was missing.
This new evidence, combined with the review board's declassification of 40 witnesses who saw a hole
in the back of Kennedy's head, constitutes powerful evidence
of a shot from the front.
Who was the autopsy photographer?
John Stringer.
He was a Navy civilian.
He was widely respected.
He had written a textbook on medical photography for the Navy, so he was the photographer of record.
He photographed the autopsy itself, and also photographed the president's brain.
The autopsy photos of the President's brain are housed at the National Archives.
These photos cannot be scanned or reproduced, but are only available to be viewed on site by researchers authorized by the Kennedy family.
Half of the brain photos are taken of a brain from above, superior views, which is what Stringer said he shot of the complete organ.
But the other half of the brain photos in the archives are taken of the bottom, called basilar views.
We were very careful to question Mr. Stringer about all the photographs he took and ask him what kind of film he used for black and white, what kind of film he used for color.
Jeremy Gunn showed Stringer the color positive transparencies of the brain and Stringer immediately noted, well, these aren't Kodak.
These might be Ansco.
He said, I don't see the name of the manufacturer on here, but these don't have the right notches in the corner.
So Jeremy Gunn said, did you use this film with these notches in it, Stringer said, no, did
you take Bastler views when you shot the brand? And he says, not as far as I know. Doesn't
this all lead to the question, if Stringer did not take these photographs, then who did?
Robert Knudsen was a Navy photographer who was detailed to the White House in
If you read his obituaries in the New York Times and the Washington Post, you will see that he is credited with photographing Kennedy's autopsy, except officially, he was not.
Robert Knudson was not interviewed by the Warren Commission, so they finally found Robert Knudson in 1978, and to its credit, the House Select Committee After his death in 1989, his wife was interviewed by the Assassination Records Review Board.
buried it for 50 years and it got released in 1993.
And I know why they buried it because everything he told them about autopsy photography
contradicted what they thought they knew in the official record.
After his death in 1989, his wife was interviewed
by the assassination records review board.
And did he describe for you the wounds that you saw on both opposite edges?
He told her that one photograph in particular, presumably the back of the head, had been severely altered.
Can you stop that for a second?
Okay, yeah, that's very interesting when she says the whole top of his head and everything And I think that coincides with what Jim has published about the cranial saw that was that was taken to JFK's head.
That goes back to Lifton, and that's the way it's described in the official Bethesda autopsy report, with mathematical precision.
The whole back of the head and into the top is gone.
And that's where Humes referred to it appeared to there have been surgery to the head, which Siebert and O'Neill picked up on.
It was Lifton who spotted that with his keen eye.
And Horne has followed Lifton's research and his thesis, obviously.
Yes, yes, yes.
Horne has done excellent work.
I still regard Best Evidence by David Lifton as the single most important book in the history of the assassination research.
It's a long read, but it's worth it.
All right, here we go.
In one sense, You probably were saying that what you're saying is very different from what the United States government has been saying for a long time.
And why didn't you say something to somebody?
You have to remember that he was an amazing man.
And he had a top-secret plan.
It was a way of life.
He didn't go around planning things.
The White House made him a member of Congress.
John Stringer, still the autopsy photographer of record.
I think they both took pictures.
And I personally think that many of John Stringer's pictures never made it into the official collection.
And a lot of the ones we're looking at are Robert Knutson's pictures.
Knutson's pictures were of the body double, whereas Stringer's were actually of JFK.
I don't think there's any room for doubt about it.
And that weekend, she received film.
The photograph said, Sondra Spencer developed, which never made it into the official record.
The only evidence we have of them is her testimony.
Sondra Spencer was visibly upset when she looked at the official autopsy photographs because she said, I developed pictures of him and his family for almost three years.
He never looked like this.
She said, he looks terrible in this photograph.
These are the fake Grodin.
The fake Grodin.
Yes, he started to cry in front of Jeremy and I and the person from the archives.
And she said, he did not look this bad in the photographs I developed on Sunday.
It was very cleaned up.
It was very respectful.
And in one of the photographs she developed, there was a brain, an intact brain, sitting next to the body, the new body of the president.
Strange, first of all, that it's intact, because FBI agent Frank O'Neill told the review board that Over half of the mass of the brain was missing.
So that would have been from the body double.
There were probably two such events occurred later and were not done on November 22nd.
Anybody that's seen the Zubruder film can see Kennedy's head explodes and debris flies all over the place.
Jackie Kennedy climbed down onto the trunk of the limousine, picked up a chunk of the president's brain, had it with her, took it in, gave it to One of the doctors at Parkland Hospital.
When you look at the autopsy photographs of the brain, which I've seen the originals of, you can just see that the brain is disrupted, but very little of the tissue is missing.
Then we look at the autopsy report of the brain, what they call the supplemental brain examination.
The brain in evidence displayed there weighs 1,500 grams.
1,500 grams is above average weight of an adult male brain.
There was one report of 8,000 autopsies in the average weight of an adult male brain was 1336 grams. So they're
saying that President Kennedy's brain was well above the average weight. Where did all that brain
tissue disappear to the flies around Dealey Plaza that Jackie has in her hand that everybody's
picking off of their clothes?
There are two photographs of the brain at the archives. I viewed those in 2015.
We got 30 seconds to go for a half hour. Okay.
Do the 30 seconds and then we'll say, go ahead.
Yeah.
The brain looked to me to be distorted.
My first thought was that the brain had been sitting in a jar for a long time.
The review board had a consultant, a renowned forensic pathologist.
He looked at the brain photographs and he said, this is a very well-fixed brain.
It's all gray.
It's not pink at all.
It's been fixed for two or three weeks in Pomelo.
It's been fixed at least two weeks, maybe as long as three weeks.
I looked at Jeremy Gunn, and he looked at me, and the hair stood up on the back of my neck, because I knew that JFK's brain was examined less than three days after he was killed.
One can only imagine that they wanted the damage to the brain to be consistent with the hypothesis that Oswald had done this.
All right, fellas.
This is just god-awful.
I mean, look, I published Assassination Science in 1998.
Bob Livingston, a world authority on the human brain and an expert on wound ballistics, having supervised an emergency medical hospital for injured Okinawans and Japanese prisoners of war during the Battle of Okinawa, Had already concluded that given the reports from the Parkland physicians of extruding cerebellar as well as cerebral tissue meant that the brain shown in the diagrams and photographs in the National Archives could not be of the brain of JFK.
So you had it already there and a world authorities report and they're still acting like
this is a big mystery. I mean this is incredibly stupid, poorly planned, deliberately trying
to make it look as though they're revealing significant information when none of this is new and it's
hopelessly inadequately presented. I mean this is disgusting. I have to say that them mentioning
Jackie retrieving the piece of skull and instead of going further on that where they could
have included the Stavis Ellis from the the uh,
Newcombe tapes where he said that a child picked up a piece of skull from the infield on the south side and a Secret Service agent snatched it from him and threw it into the into the limo before they took off.
Larry, this is the original Amateur Hour.
I can't tell you how bad this is.
Totally shoddy, slipshod.
Someone who doesn't know enough about the case to be doing this, and it's Jim DiEugenio I hold responsible.
This is mediocre work from a mediocrity of mediocrities.
It's just embarrassingly bad.
I remember when we provided Douglas Horn with the Newcomb tapes, remember?
He said, man, this changes everything.
You know, he couldn't believe, especially, particularly because I remember he mentioned it in a lecture that he did in a presentation about the Stavis Ellis testimony.
I mean, not testimony, but the recording, you know, in the Newcomb tape where he said what I just mentioned earlier.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
My film didn't render fast enough, but I'm going to go ahead and play this and kind of bump it along.
What we're going to say is this is 1967.
There was a huge hit piece on Jim Garrison that was broadcast on NBC.
It was Johnny Carson attacking him, Gary.
Everybody knows.
No, this isn't the Johnny Carson one.
This is when He was given 30 minutes to respond to the attack by Johnny Carson, Gary.
Yeah.
Okay, well, I'm not really sure if that's true or not, but I'll find out.
Well, it is true!
Larry and I aren't trying to bullshit you, Gary.
We did a show on that a long time ago, many moons ago.
I mean, Gary, come on!
You should know this.
No.
There was another hit piece.
I can't remember all their names and all that, and I really believe it's about that.
We'll find out.
If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy.
Okay, and if we're wrong, we will a thousand gameticize, my friend.
All right.
Okay, here we go.
What we're trying to say is everything presented in this show was presented right here, and I'm going to kind of bump it along so it doesn't take too long.
You will learn to your own satisfaction that President Kennedy was not killed by a lone assassin.
You will learn that there's been, and continues to be, a considerate effort to keep you from learning these facts.
And you will learn, I assure you, that what I have been trying to tell you, and what I'm telling you tonight, is true.
As children, we become accustomed to hearing fairytales.
They're always pleasant stories, and they're comforting to hear because good always triumphs over evil.
At least, this is the way it is in fairytales.
Fairy tales are not dangerous for our children, and are probably even good for them up to a point.
However, in the real world, in which you and I must live, fairy tales are dangerous.
They're dangerous because they're untrue.
Anything which is untrue is dangerous.
And it is all the more dangerous when a fairy tale becomes accepted as reality simply because it has an official seal of approval.
Let me make a suggestion, Gary.
I suspect, we're close to an hour, you didn't get rendered the short piece that took out the key clip, so why don't you keep it for next week, you do the research, find out what presentation Garrison was making, whether Larry and I are right or wrong, and we'll play it then.
And we can just use the time that remains for the hour show tonight to just talk about what we've seen here, which I'm sorry to say is just more dribble.
This is just embarrassingly bad.
Larry, would you agree?
It's hard to see Douglas and Dr. Mantic especially because he's done such incredibly Groundbreaking work on the autopsy x-rays and everything, and his book regarding the Harper Fragment and everything, and not being able to go on and explain his other work as well as Douglas, because Douglas has a lot more information than what they've given him the time here.
I mean, Douglas Horn has five big, thick volumes.
I mean, give me a break.
And they're not using any of these guys in the appropriate way.
They're leaving out their most important work and giving us routine, familiar stuff from, as Gary is going to demonstrate, 50 years ago.
Just, I mean, this is awful.
There's no excuse for this.
There's no excuse for this.
And Douglas has kept his work updated on his website.
So, like you said, you know, there's no excuse here, you know.
Doug Horn and David Mannock are two of the single most important stewards of the assassination of JFK of all time.
And to reduce them to trivia like this is insulting to the max.
Just beyond belief.
This is so irresponsible.
It has to be deliberate.
It has to be deliberate.
I just wonder if Oliver Stone knows about it.
Oliver Stone was conned.
He was played by Robert Groton in relation to JFK.
Now he's been played by Jim DiEugenio in relation to JFK revisited.
It's bad.
This is very bad.
What a waste of time and resources.
Just awful.
Gary, how do we stand in terms of minutes into this show today?
It's been about an hour, so... Well, I expect it has been.
We want the good stuff you're pulling out of Jim Garrison, Gary, so you have it for next week, and we'll talk about, you know, make your point so powerfully with Garrison reporting everything we've had in the first hour of this show in about six minutes, which he delivered way back when.
What year was it that Garrison made that presentation?
Oh no, and also we can show the audience this new document that has surfaced.
Uh, from the new release, uh, the Biden release, which I didn't release.
Yeah.
12, 15.
Yeah.
15 of December.
Okay.
Good.
Larry.
Where Jim Garrison went to, uh, Holland.
He was on TV on national TV there and talking about the assassination and the CIA and some of the stuff in the, in, in the memo is just mind blowing.
So we'll leave that for next week.
You got Gary, Gary.
JFK number 263 will be back with part three next week and hopefully we can find out something new.
But if you hang with us, you'll find out something new for sure.
All right.
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