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Dec. 23, 2021 - Jim Fetzer
01:01:34
The New JFK Show (22 December 2021) with Gary King and Larry Rivera
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Me too.
All right.
Welcome everyone to the new JFK show number 262.
We're going to be reviewing the new Oliver Stone film through the looking glass.
It's been basically 30 years since his last effort, which we really got a lot of hope out of.
And, but the second one, well, we'll be discussing, we're going to be claiming fair use all the way through.
We're going to be criticizing it.
And, um, Critiquing, critiquing, critiquing.
Gary, let me point out the copyright law specifically allows you to use the object if you're subjecting it to criticism.
And let me also add, I'm very suspicious that Jim DiEugenio may have played the same role in relation to Oliver Stone in producing JFK Revisited that Robert Grodin played in relation to JFK.
Well, Robert Grodin didn't let Oliver know that Lee was in the doorway of the book depository at the time the motorcade passed by, which meant he not only could not have been the lone demented gunman, but he could not have been one of the multiple shooters where we have now today identified eight.
That he did not allow Oliver to know that the Zabruder film had been extensively edited.
We know today there are more frames missing from the original than are present in the extant film, which has been massively edited and revised.
And Oliver only posited three hit teams, which is a giant advance.
But we know, as I've already mentioned, that there actually turned out to have been eight shooters.
So I believe Groton was deliberately reigning in Oliver Stone, and that Jim DiGiugno, who wrote the script, was deliberately reigning him in again, playing a parallel role.
And I'm 100% certain we're going to find proof internal to this documentary that DiGiugno was keeping Oliver from revealing the most important development since he made JFK.
Which, by the way, was when I began doing research in the wake of JFK with David Mantic in late 1992, where David was first going to enter the National Archives, and told me he thought he'd discover both Evidence of a second shot to the head, and that none of the autopsy x-rays were authentic.
He found both.
But I'm predicting that we're not going to find even that information, which has been around now for, what, 30 years?
We're not even going to find that in this Oliver Stone redo, so I'm rather shocked.
Let's proceed.
All right.
Well, I know for a fact that there's three places that you don't go in JFK.
Number one is a Z film alteration, Lee in the doorway, and anything to do with the foreign policy of JFK in the Middle East.
So I'm going to be looking out during the thing for those three things if we can get some information on that.
So anything to add, Larry, before I play?
No, no, I'm good.
I just wanted To add to that, that you're going to see some really good interviews, you know, especially with Dr. Mantic, but they spend a lot of, way too much time on the single bullet, C-399, like Jim just said, and we'll just, you know... We'll see how it goes.
We'll let the chips fall where they may.
Yeah, let it flow, let it flow, Gary.
It's gonna take a second to get going.
Since it's about a two-hour film, we'll do four segments.
We'll do a half an hour.
Starts with the American University speech.
Let's count how many times he says peace.
About a hundred.
...at this time and place to discuss a topic on which ignorance too often abounds, the truth too rarely perceived.
That is the most important topic on earth, peace.
What kind of a peace do I mean and what kind of a peace do we seek?
Not a Pax Americana, enforced on the world by American weapons of war.
Not the peace of the grave.
Or the security of the slave.
I am talking about genuine peace.
The kind of peace that makes life on Earth worth living.
The kind that enables men and nations to grow and to hope.
And build a better life for their children.
Not merely peace for Americans.
But peace for all men and women.
Not merely peace in our time.
Peace in all time.
That straight, sleek look that it should have.
And very often, you'll find a zipper hidden in the arm.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
You'll excuse the fact that I'm out of breath, but about 10 or 15 minutes ago, a tragic thing from all indications at this point has happened in the city of Dallas.
This is Walter Brine, guide in our newsroom.
Here's a piece of copy that was rushed to me and was torn off from the United Press.
President Kennedy has been shot in Dallas.
Along with Governor Connolly of Texas, they've been taken to Parkland Hospital there, where their condition is as yet unknown.
And just now we've received reports here at Parkland that Governor Connolly was shot in the upper left chest.
And the first unconfirmed reports say the President was hit in the head.
That's an unconfirmed report that the President was hit in the head.
Police began chasing an unknown gunman across a railroad track.
Would you see if they need some coffee or something?
These people are awfully shaken up.
They were in the line of fire.
The President's car was some 50 feet when we heard the first shot and then as the car got directly in front of us with a gunshot from top of the hill hit the President's side of the temple.
The doc came from the hill.
The hospital kid.
Excuse me just a moment, John.
Uh, this is just word from the hospital that they have dispatched a call for a neurosurgeon.
All we can do now is pray for him and that's about all we can do.
President's wife Jackie Kennedy was not hurt.
She walked into the hospital.
A priest has been ordered.
Emergency supplies of blood also being rushed to the hospital.
Just a moment, just a moment.
We have a bulletin coming in.
We now switch you directly to Parkland Hospital and KPI News Director Bill Hampton.
Two priests who were with President Kennedy say he is dead.
Just two priests announced it?
Yes.
But it's not the truth, is it?
♪♪ The Flash apparently official,
President Kennedy, died at 1 p.m.
Central Standard Time some 38 minutes ago.
I just can't see why anybody would want to shoot Mr. Kennedy for all the things he's done for us and tried to keep us from getting into war and everything.
It's a simple matter of a bullet right through the head.
Police made a systematic search of the building.
They found no weapon.
We're checking around now.
Can't move.
Well, we found empty rifles and a MacArthur man has been at worst on the line.
Police made a systematic search of the building.
They found no weapon.
We just got the word Lyndon B. Johnson has been sworn in as the President of the United States,
just prior to a takeoff to return to Washington.
Behind the casket is Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy.
They are helping her down.
Now, new President Edmund Baines Johnson.
We have suffered and we lost.
That cannot be weighed.
At Bethesda Naval Hospital, the autopsy team has completed work.
Now, the body of the slain president and his widow are at last brought home to the White House.
Who do you think will do something like this?
The perfect communist, I think.
Probably some segregationist crackpot or something.
They had it all planned out.
I really believe that his blood will be on their hands.
Well, I don't know whether it catches them.
They deserve the worst.
This is 24-year-old Lee H. Oswald.
He answers the description of a young man sighted at a book depository building.
You shoot the president?
I didn't shoot anybody.
I emphatically deny these charges.
This is 24-year-old Lee H. Oswald.
He answers the description of a young man sighted at a book depository building.
Police chased Oswald into a movie theater.
Police said he fired at them, killing patrolman J.D. Taylor.
Tippett.
A rifle was found in a building where he worked.
Police refuse to say whether they have any fingerprints from that weaponage yet.
The man, obviously, was an excellent shot, or very lucky, in that witnesses said three shots were fired.
At least two of them found their marks.
At the Capitol Rotunda, there will be three short speeches before the public is allowed to start viewing the body.
Chief, do you have any concern for the safety of your prisoner?
No, but because necessary precautions will be taken, of course.
Is there any doubt in your mind, Chief, that Oswald is the man who killed the President?
I think this is the man who killed the President.
So great is the crush outside the Capitol that people who have not been in line can't possibly...
We are now switching to Dallas, where they are about to move Lee Oswald and where there is a... Lee Harvey Oswald, the man who Dallas Police say killed President Kennedy, himself is dead.
The man Dallas Police seized at the scene and are holding has been identified as Jack Ruby.
He is being held by the Dallas Police.
Now back to Washington.
53 countries are represented in all today.
There are a dozen members of ruling royal families, 30 foreign ministers.
Will the nation be all right in the few months ahead?
I'm sure.
The entire citizenry of the nation will stand faithfully behind the government.
This bizarre sequence of double killings raised great questions.
Who actually fired the shots that killed Kennedy?
Was there a conspiracy?
The first wound described was a wound in the back of the head, and which seemed to indicate a shot from behind.
But the doctors also said there was a wound in the throat at the front, which seemed to indicate a shot from the other direction.
The new president, Lyndon Johnson, appointed a commission of seven prominent Americans to investigate the whole affair.
Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the United States.
Richard B. Russell, Senator from Georgia.
John Sherman Cooper, Senator from Kentucky.
Hale Boggs, representative from Louisiana.
Gerald R. Ford, representative from Michigan.
John J. McCloy, presidential advisor.
Alan W. Dulles, ex-head of the CIA.
Are you convinced that he was shot from the school book?
Well, I think we'd better leave all that, you know.
The evidence report will cover all of that.
The Warren Commission had at its disposal the complete resources of the FBI, the Secret Service, the CIA.
The only direction to the Commission was to find the truth.
My own conviction is that we found it.
The Warren Commission makes these major findings.
Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated President Kennedy.
He did it alone.
He was not a part of any conspiracy, either domestic or foreign.
Some other details will be of interest mainly to historians and others having some special interest.
But there is one further piece of evidence that the public cannot see.
Abraham DeBruyter's film of the actual assassination.
This murder now is the most thoroughly documented crime in American history, and for those who care to pursue it down to the last detail, it's all there.
Gary, let me ask, pause it momentarily.
Pause, yeah, yeah, definitely need to pause.
Let me ask, what have we had, 15 minutes of this video, of this documentary, 15 minutes?
That's right, about that.
About 15 minutes, and all of it, all of it is 60 years old.
I mean, this is just insulting.
What a waste.
This is all filler.
Everyone knows everything here.
The one interesting piece was when the reporter was saying, well, there was wound in the back of the head, but he was actually talking about a blowout caused by Malcolm Kilduff talking about an entry at the right temple.
So he admitted there was a wound to the throat from entrant.
And he tried to misdescribe what Malcolm Kilduff had identified as an entry to the right temple also fired from in front by suggesting that there was a wound to the back of the head when he's talking about the exit.
Larry, this is bad.
This is just a waste of time.
I can't believe we're being insulted by 15 minutes of pablum from Oliver Stone.
All right, so as we mentioned, that they could have showed the wink between the Senator and LBJ.
Al Thomas, Congressman, yeah.
Right.
And they also could have mentioned that the casket was empty.
And that's also 20, 30 years or more.
And also when Ruby, as we know better, Um, they could have shown the man throwing the bag over the head of the supposed Ruby shooting.
So there's, there's a bunch of stuff that we could have had as not new to us, but as far as the rest of the world, it had been brand new to them.
All right.
So to make you feel better, we're only 10 minutes in Dr. Fetzer.
Well, it's still, it's all a waste.
10 minutes wasted.
I mean, unbelievable.
If you look at my video of JFK, 10 minutes of my video, you know overwhelmingly more about the assassination than this 10 minutes of Pablum from Oliver Stone.
This is embarrassing.
This is bad.
All right.
Now, real quick, right there, we've talked about it before, and I want to do a show before too long.
That's a Tartarian building right there.
Here we go.
To this day remains a crime scene.
In the years since the Warren Report, many significant reinvestigations were made into the murder of President Kennedy.
Each one revealed new facts and evidence that shed more light on what really happened here that day.
Starting in 1975, after the Watergate scandal, Senator Frank Church conducted an investigation into the abuses and crimes of the FBI and CIA.
During that time, the public learned of the CIA plots to assassinate foreign leaders, like Patrice Lumumba of the Republic of Congo and Fidel Castro of Cuba.
Plots orchestrated under director Alan Dulles.
But the Church Committee didn't stop there.
Senators Richard Schweiker and Gary Hart were tasked to re-examine the roles of the CIA and FBI as the chief investigators for the Warren Commission and look for signs of conflicts or cover-ups.
J. Edgar Hoover writes, yes, we did have relationship with Mr. Ruby and he acted as our foreman.
Now, who said that at the time of the Warrant Commission report?
Did anybody ever imply that Jack Ruby was a confidential informer for the FBI?
Nobody breathed that.
That was classified.
Faith in what the American public was told by the Warren Commission was starting to unravel.
The intelligence agencies did all the wrong things if they really were looking for
conspiracy or to find out who killed John Kennedy.
The execution of President Kennedy.
momentum. Then, 12 years after the assassination, the most iconic piece of
evidence was leaked and finally shown to the public.
The film shot by the Dallas dress manufacturer Abraham Zapruder, the execution of President Kennedy.
And Bob and Dick, would you please narrate what we're seeing as we show this film?
Now before he goes behind the sign, the president is waving to the crowd.
When he comes out from behind the sign, he is shot, then Governor Connolly is shot.
He's already been hit.
He's already been hit.
And now... At the bottom of the screen, the head shot.
That's the shot that blew off his head.
That's the most upsetting thing I've ever seen.
We'll talk about it in a minute.
Seeing the shock and brutality of the actual assassination caused a public outcry.
The government formed the House Select Committee on Assassinations, the HSCA.
The committee will come to order.
The HSCA re-interviewed witnesses and took new testimonies that exposed massive inconsistencies with the original Warren Report.
Has any other scientist to date linked the so-called pristine bullet to the injuries?
Not that I'm aware of, no.
The Pentagon has destroyed its Kennedy assassination file.
And we don't know why that was done.
But at the end of that investigation, what the HSCA learned was considered too damaging to be made public, and close to a half million records were to remain sealed until 2029.
A fact that we made clear at the conclusion to our 1991 film, JFK.
The media controversy that accompanied the film forced Congress to do something about the secrecy that still surrounded these classified files.
Hearings were held on Capitol Hill.
Most Americans did not believe or support the verdict of the Warren Commission initially.
And now, more than three in four, according to all recent samplings of public opinion, think some conspiracy was involved.
Then in 1992, the John F. Kennedy Records Collection Act was passed.
The clerk will report the title.
Senate 3006, an act to provide for the expeditious disclosure of records relevant to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.
This act provided funding and formed the Assassination Records Review Board.
The ARRB.
The public wasn't going to have to wait until 2029.
Declassification was to begin now.
The board was given a budget and timeline of four years to declassify and make public as many documents and records as possible.
They managed to collect over two million pages of declassified records and artifacts.
They're all housed at the National Archives in Maryland.
And since then, the public has been free to view, study, and investigate.
There's now so much more that we know.
And with those facts in hand, we will go back and piece together what really happened that day, and discover the reasons why.
Let's begin.
All right.
Should we stop there?
Jim, you are muted.
Thank you.
.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Listen, I met Frank Church when I was an undergraduate at Princeton.
He came and spoke to the Webb-Cleo Society, which was a political debate society.
It had to be like 1961.
But I shook his hand, and he was a fine man, and I have no doubt he was taken out that he was murdered because of his revelations from the church committee, that he was one of the few who was willing to do something serious about it.
Otherwise, I just want to invite Larry.
I mean, they should have begun with Oliver in the Pergola area.
I think that would have been fine.
And dispense with that first 10 minutes of fluff.
That was totally unnecessary.
And now let's see what we find here.
Larry, your thoughts?
Yeah, I want to say that absolutely that the two heroes that emerged here are definitely Schweiker and we'll see a little bit later Richard Sprague because Richard Sprague went out you know went to the HSCA as lead counsel trying to find out the truth and he said and he was very plain about it he said I'm gonna subpoena all the agencies and I'm gonna find out I'm gonna you know nobody's off-limits here and that's why they you know
Got him out of there, you know.
In fact, one of his first actions was to send Kenneth Bruton and this Blackmer, Jonathan Blackmer, to Mexico City to talk to the Tarasovs, who were the Russian translators.
And in the process, he was told that he couldn't send anybody there to talk to some other ex-agents or whatever, you know.
And he said, okay, okay, okay.
We're gonna, you know, abide by that.
And he did everything.
To the contrary, he went straight for the Blackburns, I mean, I'm sorry, the Cherusofs.
And the Cherusofs said, hey, you know, that's not Lee Oswald in tapes.
You know, we could talk here and waste all of our time, you know, for days, weeks or whatever, but we're never going to be able to verify Lee Oswald speaking broken Russian, you know, in supposed phone calls to the Russian embassy, you know, trying to straighten out the visa thing, you know.
So those two guys pay attention because they're very important people, you know, in this documentary by Roger Stone.
I mean, Oliver Stone.
And you can confirm my suspicion, Larry, because you've seen the whole thing, which I have not, that they never get into all the evidence that shows that the whole visit to Mexico City by Lee Oswald was a fabrication, that among the CIA assets in Mexico were three, count them, not one, not two, but three presidents of Mexico.
Yeah, who had total control over everything that the CIA did and its interaction with the Mexican witnesses there.
Obviously, Sylvia Duran at the top of the list, but many others were involved as well.
Okay, Gary, go ahead.
We'll resume now.
Something else that could have been revealed is the X in the street.
That is actually further down.
Wrong location.
Yeah, very good.
Very good.
Absolutely right.
And for those who don't know, you just witnessed the birth of Robert Grodin in this whole twisted saga.
The JFK case was such a mass of confusion.
For example, the Warren Commission was limited to only three shots because three shells were found on the sixth floor of the school book depository.
On that wall, we found the three empty shells that had been fired.
But they had characteristics on them so that our ballistic expert was able to prove
that they were fired by this gun.
And he had fired at me.
I know, all three of the president, and we have them.
The FBI concluded that all three bullets struck inside the car.
He was hit by the first and the third.
The second shot hit the governor.
These third shots had drawn a large part of the president's head off.
The Warrant Commission put itself in a straitjacket.
They could not possibly allow more than three shots, because four shots or more would have clearly indicated
conspiracy, and they were not going there.
I was standing down on the end of the pass.
On the curve, it was very visible.
Mark where a bullet had struck.
A fragment of the bullet scratched my face.
Records show the first shot had missed its target completely,
and the final shot hit Kennedy in the head.
So how does one account for one bullet hitting two victims and doing all this damage?
Arlen Spector was a Yale Law School graduate working in the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office when he was asked to serve on the Warren Commission.
Aha!
What if one bullet made all seven wounds?
Arlen Spector, he is the one that gave birth to the single bullet theory.
What if one bullet went into Connelly's back, and came out his neck, and then went into Connelly's back, piercing the lung, destroying four inches of the right fifth rib, exiting from the front of his chest, going into the back of the wrist, shattering the distal end of the radius, and a six foot four guy like Connelly, that's a big heavy bone, comminuted fracture, exits from the front of the wrist, goes into his left thigh.
Whatever you want, whatever you need, this bullet happily and readily obliges you.
It is indeed a magic bullet.
CE-399 was the magic bullet.
And all government investigations so far have treated that bullet as absolutely foundational to this case.
How important is chain of custody in a legal proceeding?
Chain of custody basically refers to the integrity of evidence.
Can you stop it for a minute?
Evidence and I transfer it to someone.
Yeah, stop, stop.
Okay, this is Brian, and he's a part of the project JFK group with Casey Quinlan and,
and David Knight, whom we interviewed here.
Regarding that frontal shot.
Remember, the AR five, which had belonged to Curtis LeMay, and which David research
and investigated that the frontal shot, which was between three and five millimeters of
aperture aperture there.
The only by process of elimination, he had arrived at the only weapon that would have
done that was he that AR five and he demonstrated how easy it was to take a take apart a mount
a scope on it, even silencers and everything and the muzzle velocity and everything was
supersonic and everything.
So Brian, who you're seeing right now, is part of that group, and he's going to talk about in a little bit about the Actually, it was information that we published, you know, in the JFK Horseman, which came from Jamie, I mean, Amy Joyce, regarding the rings on the Backyard Man photo.
But, as you will see, for some reason, he did not take it any further, like we did, regarding the Roscoe White identification as Backyard Man.
So, keep an eye on this.
Go ahead.
As you have recently reminded me about 10 years ago, I published about how Secret Service agent Sam Kinney, who had declared that his testimony not be revealed until after his death, had discovered the bullet on the back seat of the car and taken it in and put on the stretcher, which I surmise was a bullet fired from the top of the county records building by Harry... Weatherford.
Weatherford, yeah, using a .30-06 to implant a Mannlicher Carcano bullet using a sabot, a small plastic collar that only entered about two inches, as far as the second knuckle on your little finger, would easily have worked its way out while Jack was lying there on the back seat.
Kenny instructed that it not be revealed that he had done this until after his death and where I even interviewed his neighbor who confirmed it.
Larry, I mean, this is stuff that would be devastating to the Magic Bullet Theory because there was nothing magic about it.
And it was ignored by Oliver Stone.
And it was ignored by Oliver Stone because DiEugenio, and that's his voice, is it not?
DiEugenio is, you know, playing the saint role as Robert Brodin and reigning it in, a limited hangout.
We're seeing minimal advance, if any advance.
I mean, you know, you and I and Gary and every other serious student has known everything presented here for 30 years.
I mean, there's nothing new here whatsoever yet.
No Jim and you and you in that article you carefully verified the bona fides of this individual you know I forget his name uh but I remember that was a very important piece that you did on on Veterans Today because it completely changed the provenance you know of the magic bullet.
And yet here we still have Sarah Weck for the 100th time, maybe the 1,000th, doing a thing about the Magic Bullet.
David addressing the Magic Bullet is fine, but David has done so much more important work that goes far beyond.
Yeah, overkill, absolutely, yeah.
This is a waste of his talent here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Please go on now, Gary.
All right.
Yeah, we'll continue with JFK.
I'm happy for Brian.
Don't, you know, get me wrong.
I'm happy for Brian.
You know, I know Brian.
You know, we're good friends and everything.
But they should have let him, you know, continue.
And elaborate as far as, you know, the Backyard Man identity, you know?
Well Larry, there you get it.
There you get it.
DiEugenio is cutting off every significant avenue of progress.
It actually reveals what was going on.
He cut it off.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, here we go.
For holding or processing, my name is the first name on this list.
The second person who touches this and takes possession of it
is next.
And if you don't do that, there's no way to prove that the evidence you collected on day
one is the same one you get on day 25 when you go to court.
Can you walk us through the magic bullets chain of custody from the Parkland employee?
We lost the audio, Gary.
No, no, no, no.
Let it, it's a couple of minutes here where there's a, but it'll, it'll pick up.
To handle it.
And he carried it back to Washington DC.
When he got back to Washington DC, he gave it to the chief of the secret service, who was James Rowley.
And at the White House, James Rowley gave it to Elmer Lee Todd, and Todd then took it to the FBI lab and gave it to Robert Fraser.
We have interesting information produced by John Hunt, a private citizen who went to the archives on four or five occasions to track down the story about the magic bullet.
And what he found was truly astounding.
He practically moved into the National Archives in Washington, DC.
They allowed him to set up a desk with a computer and his own scanner, and he also did something different.
He didn't interview policemen and FBI people, and he wasn't swayed.
By their excuses.
He went straight to, this is what you told and you signed your name.
Working with the FBI and Warren Commission documents, John Hunt asked the most basic question, was CE-399 in evidence, the same bullet that was found on the stretcher?
At 7 30, this was the day of the assassination, November 22, 1963, A bullet appears in the record and it's signed for by Robert Fraser, who is the main investigator at the FBI lab.
And it's not just one document, there are multiple documents that indicate that Fraser signed for a bullet at 7 30 that night.
Now here's where things get interesting.
Elmer Lee Todd received the bullet at the White House from Chief of the Secret Service James Rowley.
And Todd documents very clearly in writing that he got this bullet at 8 50 p.m.
How is that possible?
How can Robert Fraser receive the bullet in the lab at 7.30 from Elmer Lee Todd when Todd didn't get the bullet until 8.50?
You would think that they would have handled it, you know, like it would have been gold going to the bank.
There it is in the record.
Someone is lying about when they got the bullet.
It gets worse, though.
Todd initialed that bullet, the one that he got at 8.50.
And everyone else who touched the bullet after that initialed it too, including Robert Fraser.
I went to the archives to look at this bullet, and specifically what we want to know is, do we see Todd's initials on this bullet?
He said he initialed the bullet.
It is not there.
Todd's initials are not on the magic bullet.
I was very interested in finding out what the review board would show us about this.
So we began scouring their evidence.
And we touched the bullet after that initial.
The two being Robert Frazier.
I went to the archives to look at this bullet.
And specifically what we want to know is, do we see Todd's initials on this bullet?
He said he initialed the bullet.
It is not there.
Todd's initials are not on the magic bullet.
I was very interested in finding out what the review board would show us about this.
So we began scouring their evidence and we found out something very interesting.
We found out that the Warren report had from an FBI report saying that the guys that found the bullet later identified that as the bullet they'd seen.
302 reports, his name appears nowhere in the record.
This is just something that the FBI invented.
It's conceivable that some mysterious bullet showed up from who knows where.
Todd did not initial it, and it ended up in the FBI lab as a magic bullet.
One can only surmise that somewhere in the FBI, they realized they had to close the loop on Oswald's guilt,
and so they just switched it out.
Because none of the four people, either the guys at Parkland or the two Secret Service agents,
could identify the bullet.
The guy who is supposed to have gotten confirmation that they did identify the bullet said he never did it, and the record supports that.
So there's good reason to be very suspicious about the magic bullet.
The chain of custody doesn't start from the laboratory.
It starts from the crime scene.
Each piece of evidence should be photographed, documented, and preserved.
Properly.
From the scene, evidence collected, sent to the laboratory.
We have to keep the champ custody when they enter the lab.
Who exam, who did the further analysis, and each step have to maintain and tear, submit to the court.
If this champ broke, then my evidence become inadmissible.
The other problem is the lack of damage to the bullet after going through two men, smashing two bones, and making seven wounds.
Dr. Joseph Dolce was a much-honored battlefield surgeon during World War II.
He worked for the Warren Commission.
And so they gave us the original rifle, the Mannlicher Carcano, plus 100 bullets, 6.5 millimeters.
And we went and we shot the cadaverist In real instance, the front or the tip of the bullet was smashed.
Under no circumstances do I feel that this bullet could hit the wrist and still not be defined.
Dolce came to believe that two bullets had struck Conley.
Since Arlen Specter pre-screened the medical witnesses for the commission, Dolce's name is not in the Warren Report and his testimony is not in the volumes.
Yes, there were disagreements.
to accept the single bullet theory.
Former Senator John Sherman Cooper is the first member of the Warren Commission to agree to talk on television about
what went on inside the deliberations.
Yes, there were disagreements. I think the most serious one comes to me,
pivotally of course, was the question of whether or not Berkshire went through President Kennedy and then through Governor
Connally.
Although it never specified the order of the shots, the Warren report had one bullet going through Kennedy and
Governor Connally, another missing the car, hitting a bystander on Commerce
Street, James Tate, and the final shot hitting Kennedy in the head.
Bye.
I could not convince myself that the same bullet was a low.
You mean that you yourself didn't, weren't convinced about the single-bullet theory, which...
No, I wasn't convinced by it, neither was Senator Russell.
Senator Richard Russell of Georgia did not want to serve on the commission.
After he attended the first meeting, he quickly became disenchanted with the proceedings, particularly the roles of J. Edgar Hoover and Acting Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach.
His personal papers at the University of Georgia Library contain a memo written after the initial December 5th, 1963 executive session.
Something strange is happening.
Warren and Katzenbach know all about- Can you pause it, Gary?
All right.
Katzenbach, they just mentioned him.
Right past LBJ.
Yeah, right there on the right you saw him.
He was a young guy.
He's the one who came out with that document on the 24th to the FBI that they had to convince the public that Lee Oswald was the lone assassin.
Correct?
Yeah, absolutely, 100%.
Yes, yes, yes.
The Katzenbach Memorandum, which I included in Assassination Science in 1998.
And let me just say, everything to this point is absolutely routine and pedestrian.
The idea of featuring Deborah Conway and Gary Aguilar in this documentary from Oliver Stone is an insult.
They're both flyweights.
Neither of them have a thing to contribute.
David Mantic and Henry Lee, of course, are completely appropriate, but they're not using either of them in the most effective way.
Right, right, right.
And we're going to see Douglas Horn in a minute also.
I mean, I don't know how long we're going to go here, but it should be half an hour.
Uh, what's your time there, Gary?
Oh, 25 minutes.
Okay.
Yeah.
We've got 25.
So we got five more minutes, but I mean, to call this disappointing is to put it mildly.
This is a waste of time.
Go ahead, Gary.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we got Gary Aguilar's contribution and what was it?
We have real reason to be suspicious of the magic bullet.
There you go.
Now we know.
As the only one considered this to me is an untenable position.
His papers revealed that he wrote a dissenting opinion for the presentation at the final commission meeting.
On that day, he shared his concerns with President Johnson.
Well, what difference does it make which bullet got Connery?
Well, it don't make much difference, but they said that the committee, the commission believed that the same bullet that hit Kennedy hit Connery.
Well, I don't believe it.
I don't either.
And of course, if a fella was accurate enough to hit Kennedy right in the neck on one shot
and knock your head off, next thing you know, you're going to that theory, you not only
miss the whole automobile, but you miss the street.
Well, the man's a good enough shot to put two bullets right into Kennedy, he didn't
miss that whole automobile.
And so I couldn't sign it.
And I said, it doesn't come just by direct, to the contrary.
And I'm not going to approve of that.
He also thought that Oswald did not act alone.
Russell was strongly influenced by the Subruta film and by the testimony of Governor Connolly.
I understand there's some, uh, some question in the minds of the experts about, uh, Whether or not we could both have been hit with the same bullet and that was the first bullet.
I just don't happen to believe that.
I don't believe it and I will believe it.
This forced the other commissioners to include Connolly's dissent in the report, and as a result, they could not absolutely deny the possibility of a conspiracy.
Ray Marcus.
Russell became the first commissioner to criticize the Warren Report in public.
He was followed by commission members John Sherman Cooper and Hale Boggs.
But then, Walter Cronkite interviewed John McCloy during a four-night special co-hosted by Dan Rather.
Are you satisfied that as much effort was put into challenging that case as into establishing it?
I'll answer that in just a moment.
If I may just say one thing, which I'd like to say.
In the first place, I had some questions to the propriety of my appearing here as a former member of the Commission.
To comment on the evidence of the commission... McCloy never answered Cronkite's questions.
But even worse, CBS employee Roger Fineman later discovered internal documents showing McCoy consulted extensively on the series through his daughter Ellen, an administrative assistant to CBS president Richard Solant.
In 1992, reporter Jerry Polkoff confronted Solant and Ellen McCoy with the documents revealing...
Let me put some of the criticisms to you.
Only then did Salant admit to their concealment.
The BBC and the New York Times continued to support the commission's findings
and publicly reviewed the 26 volumes of supplemental evidence.
Let me put some of the criticisms to you.
Some of the papers and some of the documents that are in the archives are there, but are withheld.
You know.
No, I think everything that really is vital in so far as forming a judgment as to what really happened has been made available.
that apple cart? No, I don't think so. No, I think everything that really is vital in
so far as forming a judgment as to what really happened has been made available.
The Warren Commission was a joke. That was along with their evidence.
All kinds of ballistics show that the Bulletin...
and that rifle.
You took a picture of him with his home prints and fingerprints all over the school books
depository.
You have been misinformed.
The ballistic test did not prove anything at all.
This is a weapon that was used.
A rather well-worn military rifle.
We know that Oswald had possession of that rifle because we have him photographed with
it and we have his wife's picture.
life saying that it was quote, faithful, like me, Oswald is the
rifle in evidence today, the same rifle, the commission said,
Oswald ordered through the mail, the rifle that Lee Oswald ordered
under an alias of Alex Heidel, came through Klein's sporting goods
store in Chicago as a mail order.
Got it out of American rifleman magazine.
He wrote on the coupon, he wanted a 36 inch model Mannlicher Carcano 6.5 millimeter for $19.95.
Robert Frazier was one of the examiners.
He was a firearms expert for the FBI.
And he testified that he did measure it and the measurement was 40.2 inches in length from barrel to stock.
There's a 4.2 inch difference in the one he ordered versus what they found in the book depository.
Clines may have indeed delivered a different Manlicher Carcano model to Oswald, but there are other anomalies to this story.
The model that Oswald ordered showed these strap attachment points on the bottom of the barrel.
In the photograph is Lieutenant Carl Day with the Dallas Police Department.
Out of the book depository, one of the straps at the back of the gun is on the left side of the stock embedded in the stock.
That's clearly not the rifle that was ordered or at least appears in the Klein Sporting Goods store.
The straps shown in the so-called backyard photos are on the bottom and not on the side of the stock.
Marina Oswald took backyard photographs of Lee Oswald holding a rifle and a pistol on his hip.
And in that first photograph that she took three of, Commission Exhibit 133A and 133B show a ring on the ring finger of the right hand.
133C, the ring appears on the left hand.
Stop!
Stop it!
Stop it!
All right, Larry.
No.
Okay.
Roscoe White.
Drum roll.
Where did this information first come out?
On our show with Joyce.
Amy.
Amy, yep.
Amy Joyce.
The thing about the rings.
You got any comments on this, Jim?
Well, the whole thing is embarrassing.
This is so shoddy.
It's poorly scripted.
It's poorly written.
It's poorly edited.
It has no new information.
Even the best of their best is old dues, where, you know, Oliver made a fateful decision when he went with Jim DiGiugno.
And, of course, we know DiGiugno, a few years ago, did this bizarre hit piece in Kennedy's and King where he attacked me.
Over all of my research, whether it was about JFK 9-11, Wellstone, Sandy Hook, the Boston bombing, even the Holocaust, where he knows nothing about almost any of it, which I thought was outrageous.
And you know, it took, of course, seven hours for me to do with you guys a point-by-point refutation of all the evidence, which illustrates how easy it can be to lie And how complicated it can be to explain away a lie, but where it occurred to me at the time there had to be a reason for him doing this, and it crossed my mind that DiEugenio was trying to discredit me in the eyes of Oliver Stone so that he wouldn't come to me, and you, and David, and those who've collaborated with me, but instead would stick with Jim DiEugenio.
It was a propaganda move, disinformation.
I don't believe there's a single true criticism that GeoGenio makes, and you and Gary were with me for that whole seven-hour refutation.
But that was about five years ago, Jim.
I know, see?
He handed his credit to us, really.
It wasn't just me, Larry, but you and Gary.
And really, you know, he brings it to David, but not for any of the significant stuff about the x-rays being altered, patched, to conceal the blowout to the back of the head.
Nor, in other cases, the more serious work.
This is a totally superficial job on the Backyard Photographs.
Now, this thing here on the rings, and let's, you know, establish, you know, what needs to be established, which is that we published this in the JFK Horseman in 2018.
And we did a show with Amy Joyce on this also, who was the person, and that's not her real name,
you know, it's a pseudonym.
And she's the one who discovered it and brought it to our attention.
We just took it a couple of steps further and published it back in 2018.
So this is like a movie.
You're waiting to stop the screen share because we've done over a half an hour now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can cut it off here.
Yeah, just go back, right, here we go, here we go.
My assessment is this is dribble and that DiEugenio was not qualified to do this
and that Oliver Stone made a fateful decision allowing himself to be played by a mediocrity
and the result is mediocre.
What else would we expect from a DiEugenio?
Well, it's disappointing.
Larry, I find this embarrassing.
Well, it's disappointing the fact that they didn't let Brian You know, proceed to the next level, you know, on what was discovered on the Backyard Man photos, which is that it was Roscoe White who not only produced them, edited them, made them, but also stood in for Lee Oswald.
And then he did the matte insert, you know, on the face.
Larry, five minutes of you on the back here at Photographs is worth more than the whole 30 minutes plus we've watched this film.
Absolutely 100%.
And I draw the following comparison.
This is like when they did the mock trial of Lee Oswald and they wouldn't let you testify.
I was just going to mention that.
I was just going to mention that.
It's happening all over again.
DiEugenio is not going to let you testify here.
He's not going to let me participate.
He's going to bring in flyweights like Debra Conway and Gary Aguilar, who by the way, is a buddy of Tink Thompson, who like Robert Grodin insists, this is a Bruder film is a hundred percent authentic.
I mean, give me a break.
This is, this is Barfsville.
At the beginning of the show, Oliver Stone stated, we know so much more today than we did then.
Well, I'm waiting for it.
That's for sure.
Right.
None of it's there.
You can find it in order.
They're actually holding it back.
They're actually holding it back.
That's right.
They're deliberately holding it back.
Dio Dino is a little Dutch boy putting his fingers in all the holes in the dike so the dam doesn't burst.
This is embarrassingly bad.
And I tell the audience, like, if you want to get a contrast, go to My BitChute channel, Jim Fetzer, scroll down to 18 November and see my JFK special dedicated to Oliver Stone.
We knew his new film would be out on the 22nd, so I wanted to do this before his new film came out.
And compare and contrast.
I invite you, compare and contrast, because I drew upon the work of Larry Rivera, the more important work of David Bandek, a host of other experts, including, of course, Doug Horn, who are featured there.
And I took what good Josiah Thompson contributed in his first book, Six Seconds in Dallas, about the double-hit theory, which he, surprise, surprise, has subsequently disavowed, So the most important objective and scientific part of his book is one that
Tink Thompson, who now wants to try to discredit conspiracy theories, is, you know, eager to disavow.
I mean, this is just shameful.
And if Oliver Stone really were serious about it, he would have taken a different tack.
This is just a waste of time, money, and effort.
And here, Eugenio, go on.
This is from a book he wrote forever ago that is not current.
He doesn't understand the science.
He never did.
This is, this sad to say, is a work of disinformation because it's a limited hangout that does not... Yeah.
You know, Oliver Stone correctly observed, as Gary's noting, that we know a whole lot more, but you're not going to find it in JFK Revisited.
That's becoming entirely obvious.
So far.
We'll have to find out next week.
We'll take on another... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Gary, Gary, Gary.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Give me, give me a host for a minute.
I need to screen share something here.
So go to participants.
Should we let Larry be the host?
I think so.
Why not?
Yeah.
Okay, just to give our audience an idea of how dated this information is, I'm going to go ahead and show you guys what we did on this backyard photo.
And this is my post of February 22nd, 2017, actually.
2017!
2017!
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And, uh, and we did all the, I mean, overlays and everything.
And I mean, uh, and then we actually published this in, in, in my book.
And, uh, even the thing about the rings.
Okay.
Which all this information came from Amy.
Okay.
And here it is, you know, clearly, you know, the, uh, the situation with the rings, you know, where we did the closeups.
Okay.
And then, uh, before that, uh, we did the Roscoe Wright white overlays.
Can you see this?
Yeah.
Right.
Which was an outgrowth of that because the, uh, The study, you know, required us to go ahead and try to do overlays to see, you know, how Lee Oswald would fare against Backyard Man and, you know, and all the other information that came out regarding Roscoe, regarding all of his abilities with photographic equipment and matte inserts, which
His own family said that, you know, he was in the habit of doing this with all kinds of photos of the family and his relatives.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, we're wondering, you know, where he had learned how to do that and, and his work at Jagger style, Charles Stovall, you know, the place with the micro dots where he actually worked with Lee.
All right.
Before he went to New Orleans.
All right.
And so, And all this, uh, just, they just ignored it, Jim.
You know, what the hell's going on here?
It's terrible.
It's a disgrace.
It's a great loss.
Oliver Stone discredited himself to you.
Genio abused his role here.
It's all just disgusting beyond belief.
If he went into the ring thing, why didn't he go into the Roscoe angle here?
You know, which was obvious, you know, and he didn't.
I think it's because he had to tap into you, Larry, of being guilty of plagiarism.
He already plagiarized Amy, it appears.
But the fact is, once he taps into you, then the authenticity of the Zapruder film is out the window because of all your work you've done on The Four Horsemen.
I think it was too risky.
It was just too risky.
He was having to keep the genie in the bottle and not let it out.
And it's just a disgrace.
Oh, that's something new that we didn't know back then.
So, I mean, I mean, Scrawny Lee and comparison.
Genio and Oliver Stone, you know, what a waste.
What a waste.
When you do the comparison and you got Scrawny Lee You know, in the body of Backyard Man photo, it just doesn't work out.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and let you guys wrap it up.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, this is our opening.
This is the first 30 minutes of a two-hour film, so we'll be back next week.
And I suspect the outcome has been very, very similar.
So I invite, once again, check out Compare the Real Deal JFK special, which I dedicated to Oliver Stone, on my Bitude channel, Jim Fetzer.
Scroll down to 18 November, check it out, and compare with what we're getting from Oliver Stone with his vast resources, and Jim DiEugenio as his principal researcher-investigator.
This is just embarrassing beyond words.
Gary, take us out.
All right.
Yeah, I'm still looking for Z-Film.
And also, also, Jim, you know, when we touch upon Douglas Horn, you know, it seems to me, it appears, and I might be wrong, that he wants to give more information, but they're not, they're sort of like reining him in, you know, and we'll see.
I'm sure they had, they edited out the best parts of any of it, snuck through and got into their camera, into their cinema, you know, we'll, we'll see.
Meaning all the time with celluloid.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Merry Christmas, everybody.
Merry Christmas.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, from us.
Yeah.
Hey, Gary, Gary, play Feliz Navidad.
A couple of riffs right there for us.
Okay, hold on.
Give me a second.
I gotta grab my guitar.
D, G, and A7.
You got it.
I just gotta find my guitar.
It's around here.
professional. Go, you know, D, G and a seven. Yeah, that is not
the police Navida.
Well, there is a G in there.
Alright, here we go.
Let me get my mic set up there.
I'm in an open tuning.
Sorry, I can't play it.
I'll play it on my electric.
Hang on.
All right.
Bye.
Feliz Navidad.
I'm gonna be loud.
Here's the G. I mean, D.
D minor 7.
E minor 7.
Now when it goes to the chorus, Feliz Navidad, then it's a G. Feliz... Okay, G. I don't wanna lose it.
Yeah.
Hey, Larry Buds, let's sing along, will ya?
Merry Christmas from the bottom of our hearts.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
Merry Christmas.
We'll be back with installment number two next week.
All right.
Yeah, Jim.
Go ahead, Gary.
Take us out.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I thought we were already doing that.
I thought I took you out with my SG Gibson.
But all right, this has been JFK number 262.
And we'll see you next week.
And I think we'll have a show before the year's out.
We'll be looking forward to it.
Thanks, Gary.
Thanks, Larry.
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