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Sept. 20, 2021 - Jim Fetzer
01:05:44
Vaccine Whistleblower Deborah Conrad on The Highwire with Del Bigtree, Sept. 16
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My name is Debra Conrad and I'm a physician assistant at a local community hospital.
I've been there about 15 years.
I'm a hospitalist PA.
I take care of the inpatients.
So if you're in the emergency room and you have to be admitted to the hospital, you'll see me and I'll take care of you throughout your hospital stay and discharge you when you're ready.
I love my job.
I love my job.
Being in the medical field and knowing how important it is to make sure that we keep patients safe is number one priority.
January, February is when we started hearing about the pandemic.
And then I remember the day that they closed churches and schools.
The fields are empty.
The playgrounds deserted.
And that's when it really hit home for me and I realized, OK, it's coming.
It's coming here.
We got to get ready.
I was actually sent into a larger hospital to learn and train how to take care of potentially catastrophic situations.
Many of us just had severe anxiety during the pandemic, thinking we were bringing this home to our families.
There was a bunch of us that went to learn how to do mass casualty training.
In case we needed it.
So that was a little scary and that's kind of when it really hit home for me.
The vaccine rollout went pretty smooth at our hospital.
I've never experienced an emergency use vaccine or an emergency use really anything in my lifetime.
I've been pro-vaccine.
I mean my kids are vaccinated.
We rolled them out to pretty much like essential workers and that and all at first.
There were many that were excited about it and I understand we were all looking for a way out.
After rolling them out then to the kind of general public, the elderly and nursing homes in the area, we would get elderly in with COVID.
It was kind of interesting.
And it was weird.
It was almost like a week after they would get their first dose, they would test positive for COVID.
And then we started seeing patients coming in, you know, I got my vaccination and a week later they're in with pneumonia.
I can say for sure in 2021, this is the year of pneumonia.
Independent of COVID, I've never seen people with so many pneumonia, sepsis.
And even in the middle of summer, all summer, that's what we would get in the hospitals.
Pneumonia, pneumonia, pneumonia.
After the vaccine rollout, I definitely noticed an uptick in heart attacks, strokes, blood clots, gastrointestinal bleeds, gastrointestinal complaints, appendicitis.
We even saw pancreatitis, recurrent cancers.
It was noticeably increased.
It wasn't just me noticing it, it was everybody seemed to notice it.
It became clear to me that there was something wrong.
I knew nothing of VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
I didn't know about our responsibility to report.
It was never even talked about when these vaccines were rolled out.
I mean, you'd hear it in the news here and there, but there was never this push to make sure providers were made aware that if you're getting patients in the hospital with issues, these issues, whatever, that here, here, you got to go to this website and start reporting and start paying attention to stuff.
That was never Educated to us at all.
And I went on the website, I looked and the first thing I noticed was that it said, health care providers are required by law to report certain adverse reactions to VAERS.
And I said, what do you mean?
Like, what law?
So and then you look further and it had a whole section on it exactly what you're supposed to report.
Specific things you're supposed to report to VAERS after the COVID vaccine rollout.
So that's when I started Reporting patients on my own.
Well, very quickly that became a full-time job in and of itself.
I would say within three weeks to a month, I had already had 50 patients reported.
And that was just of the providers that They were willing to tell me about patients, recognize that there may be a problem.
So I went back to my administration and I said, I need help.
I can't do this all myself.
It's overwhelming.
I'm on the phone with the CDC all the time.
I'm on the phone with these patients.
I need more people to know about it so they can help me and we can do the right thing.
But that was met with then resistance.
Because that's when the vaccines were really starting to get pushed.
Everybody's got to get vaccinated.
This is how it's going to go.
And by me admitting that we need to report, because there may be some issues, it would create vaccine hesitancy amongst the health care workers, amongst the staff, amongst the other staff, amongst the patients.
Well, that's when things changed.
Because I wouldn't be quiet about it.
And what I did was I put envelopes in our emergency room and told many of the providers, hey, if you get a patient that comes in and they just got their vaccine or you think something might be related in any way, go ahead and put their demographics in the envelope and then I'll take care of it and call the patient and get the report done.
Thinking it was only going to be a few reports a week, No.
It turned into, like I said, a full-time job very quickly.
When you roll out an emergency use product that you're going to mass release on the population, wouldn't you assure that you have safety mechanisms in place?
The first thing you would do is assure that People were educated about side effects, what to report, who to report to.
Before you did that, that should have been the first thing.
Educate your health care providers who are going to see these people in the hospital.
Well then, how come we didn't get educated as health care providers?
Well, I was told we're supposed to educate ourselves.
It's not their responsibility.
Why are we not wanting to report this?
I don't know that it's a matter of not wanting to report it.
I think the position that the system has taken is that...
Each provider has a responsibility to report on their own patients.
But if the providers aren't provided education on what we're supposed to be reporting, and the importance of such, how do they know to do it?
But I believe the providers should educate themselves when they're dealing with patients related to COVID vaccination.
They don't even realize that these are specifically the conditions that we're supposed to be reporting to VAERS.
So, we've had a ton of them.
I mean, we get thrombocytopenia, blood clots.
Just Tuesday, I think it was, we shipped out, I think, three cardiomyopathies, blood clots.
We got a guy on the floor, well, he just died.
I just went out from a second ago.
We got his shot, and literally two weeks later, the guy ends up with cancer blown out of nowhere, a portal vein thrombus.
I had a lady that had a stroke within 48 hours of her vaccine fully on anticoagulation.
I had a lady have a bilateral PE and she was on Alloplift after her vaccination.
I know these are things that are reportable.
Our hospital system talked to their risk management team, and I was no longer allowed to report on any other patient
but patients of my own that I saw, where there was a warning that I was told I must support
the vaccine effort.
and the approach to the vaccine.
You know, during the pandemic, I received an Excellence Award for just My patient care and just how dedicated I am, and now I'm being looked at as a dangerous individual that's putting my patients in harm's way.
These patients deserve to be heard.
These injured, I have to say potentially injured, because we don't know, right?
But they deserve to have a voice.
They're being shunned too.
They're being told they're crazy, that they have anxiety, that it's not real.
They don't have anybody fighting for them.
There are injured patients out there.
There are people whose lives are completely destroyed as a result of these vaccines.
There are people who are now in the ground because of these vaccines.
I have no doubt about it.
And I'm speaking out because I want to be their voice.
And I hope others come forward too, because I know I'm not alone.
Well, I'm joined now by Deborah.
First of all, I want to thank you for your courage.
I know it's got to be really outside of your wheelhouse to come on to a news program and discuss, you know, what's been happening inside of your hospital.
I think it's important.
We are, you know, I want to tell you that there are nurses and doctors all over the nation that call us and give us reports exactly like this, but they're afraid to be in front of the camera because of what would happen.
So I want to honor you for taking that risk and thank you for being here today.
All right.
Thank you.
All right.
So to begin with, and I want to just sort of take us back through this a little bit.
Prior to COVID and this pandemic, how would you have described yourself when it came to vaccination?
Do you believe in vaccines?
You know, where were you at with the concept of vaccination?
I believe in vaccines.
I'm fully vaccinated myself for all the routine childhood vaccines, flu vaccine.
My children are vaccinated.
I really never questioned it up until now.
Okay.
And at your hospital, you're, one of the terms I've heard is a hospitalist or, you know, you're also a physician's assistant, correct?
Do you hold any sort of like, are you involved in any groups or leadership roles at the hospital?
Very much.
I'm actually the advanced practice provider director for my hospital.
I'm the lead PA for our hospitalist service.
Yes, I'm very involved in leadership roles in the hospital and I am somebody that's very respected in the hospital by the physicians, by other staff, very much so.
So, if there's a discussion and maybe a new way to treat or how we're going to transfer patients or anything that would be around, you know, sort of getting the whole staff up to date on some new protocols or procedures, you might be involved in actually those smaller group meetings to take out to the staff.
Is that correct?
Absolutely.
I was actually involved in an opiate withdrawal policy that I helped to create for our hospital.
So, yes.
Okay.
All right.
So, that's just so we understand where you're coming from.
Then take me through, you know, you believe in vaccines.
Obviously, there's this pandemic rolling through, you're one of these frontline doctors that's in there, you know, risking your life to, you know, deal with these patients.
What, what would you say, what was the sort of first, you know, turn of events or thing that you saw that maybe even started creating a question for you?
Well, we rolled the vaccines out mostly for staff in December and I myself was a little hesitant because of the quickness with which the vaccines kind of came to market.
I was a little concerned about that.
So I kind of just sat back and look to see kind of what what might happen.
And about in February, I started noticing an influx of patients coming in with weird conditions.
And at first I thought this is just coincidence, you know, just like everybody else.
It's just coincidence.
It's just that it was odd enough that I kind of started to take notice.
But then there was a specific patient that really kind of hit home for me.
And I said, no, this isn't a coincidence.
There's something very wrong here.
And that's when I started to kind of look into things a little bit further and started to really get concerned.
What was the condition?
I mean, I'm not going to name the patient.
Obviously, there's, you know, HIPAA.
Correct.
They created a HIPAA violation, but in general, what types of issues were you seeing and what set it off?
This particular patient, you know, had been vaccinated just less than 48 hours prior and he died of like a multi-system inflammatory syndrome.
He had acute kidney, you know, injury and bilateral pneumonia and a heart attack and sepsis and died.
And it was really quite shocking, so shocking that the providers taking care of him notified me of his case.
I had nothing to do with this patient's case.
Personally, but the providers themselves were very concerned about it, so they came to me and said, you know, that this case needs to be looked at, needs to be reported.
And at that point, I had already started doing some reporting.
Okay, so when it came to reporting, you said in the piece that you were unaware of VAERS.
Like, exactly what does that mean?
I mean, was you unaware that it was your job to use VAERS?
Or are you saying you did not know the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System existed?
Both.
I did not know anything about theirs.
When the vaccines were rolled out, that was not something that, you know, like we received education on.
You know, and you would think we would have.
I mean, you're rolling out an EUA product with no long-term safety data and very limited short-term safety data.
You're rolling it out on the mass population and people who had prior COVID.
Wouldn't you want to make sure that people were aware of what to do if you get a patient in the hospital, in the clinic, in the ER, in urgent care with some complaint after the vaccine?
Wouldn't you first put a system in place and say, or add some sort of email in place to educate your providers, this is what you need to do.
Because as adult providers, we don't really see vaccine injury as a rule unless somebody comes in after their flu vaccine with, say, Guillain-Barre or Bell's Palsy.
Those are things we are well aware, and it's on the table of reportable events.
I mean, even there, you wouldn't report that to VAERS in those cases over the last 17 years?
I imagine somebody would.
It's not something you see that often, you know, in the hospital.
Bell's palsy might be something you may see in the clinic, you may see in the ER, and it's not something that would necessarily be admitted, so we wouldn't know about it.
Right.
Well, I guess I think, you know, because we've covered vaccine injuries over the years and before COVID, so many parents with injuries to their children.
And I think that it's shocking to hear that, you know, someone that is not just like, you're not just, you know,
a nurse or someone that shows up or you're very engaged with your hospital over
17 years, you're in a fairly high level position where whenever there's
a protocol in the hospital, you help sort of lay that out.
Yet even you were unaware of VAERS for the 17 years that you were
there. And it's been there the whole time since the 1980s.
Um, just that right there. Um,
should I be surprised?
Should I be surprised or not surprised?
Are you surprised that the only way, when we hear that vaccines are safe and effective, even before COVID, when we hear that vaccines are safe and effective, that children do great with it, we're all under the impression that what these reports we're seeing, 400 deaths every single year in the United States of America from this virus system, That, you know, at least the system is being used and you were unaware of it.
Do you think that that would, if I was to sort of pull most of the doctors and nurses in your hospital prior to COVID, would they have been aware of theirs?
No.
No.
Unless maybe they were, if they were pediatricians.
They would be aware of VAERS because you would see that in the pediatric population.
Right.
But for adult providers for, you know, unless it's a pediatric hospital or pediatric clinic or a family medicine clinic where you see kids.
No, that isn't even there.
Nobody knows about VAERS.
And it's really I shouldn't say nobody.
Very few providers know about VAERS.
Okay, but I think even, we also have to be honest, that your pediatrician is not where you're going if your child is having seizures.
You're going to the ER, you're going to a regular hospital, you're not going to your pediatrician's office.
So the only ones that know about it, we're going to have a problem here.
Alright, I don't want to like dwell on the past, let's get to where we're at.
I'm just sort of trying to understand the culture of what we're talking about.
When you finally, how did you find out about VAERS?
I went online and started looking up about these vaccines and VAERS was part of looking up the vaccines.
I started seeing, you know, websites about VAERS, VAERS, and I'm like, oh, what's this VAERS?
I'm going to go on it.
And then I started reading about it.
And then I saw the clip that said, you know, health care workers are required to report to VAERS.
By law.
And that really hit me hard because I'm like, I'm a healthcare worker and I'm required by law?
Whoa.
I haven't been doing this.
And that, that really concerned me.
And I said, my colleagues haven't been doing this.
What does this mean?
And so then you start doing this report.
So now I want to be clear because the language, a lot of people, you know, there's conversation.
I know that you've had them in your hospital of, you know, is it over-reporting?
Is it under-reporting?
How do you know it's a vaccine injury?
But to be clear, the language is very clear on VAERS.
It tells you it is not your job to determine whether this is induced by the vaccine, but simply if it happens within this timeline, you submit it and we will do the work to, you know, pull it out or put it in.
Correct?
Correct.
Correct.
Okay.
And so I also want to ask you another question, because this is huge.
And this is an argument, frankly, that's in just, you know, in the civilian population now, which is when you say, well, you realize there's like 14,000 reports of deaths now in America.
And I'm shocked to find like your average, you know, person now is saying things like, well, theirs is unreliable because it's, you know.
It's just reported by anybody.
It can be anybody at home reporting to it.
You know, they don't really do anything to verify it, and so it's unreliable.
And what would you say, from your perspective, is it unreliable?
Is it just something that they just, it just gets thrown up there and there's no due diligence to make sure it's a good report?
No, it is a full-time job.
Reporting to VAERS is a very involved process.
And I give kudos to the VAERS people, the individuals who work for them, because they really do try to get the information.
But because of that, it really is a very involved process.
And I completely disagree that anybody can report to VAERS.
But I believe there's very few patients who themselves report because they require so much data that a patient wouldn't know.
So they ask questions about blood work, about your individual story, like what exactly happened to you, did you recover, the dates of the vaccine, the lot number of the vaccines, your allergies, your medications, if you've been in the hospital previously, if you've had a reaction, like all kinds of questions.
And I would think most patients would go to their provider to ask them to report.
Because it even asks who is the best medical provider to contact about this case.
So after reporting, many times I get constant calls and emails from VAERS every week wanting to discuss these patients.
So they actually follow up.
Oh, very much so.
It doesn't just go into it like we just wrote right up on the board.
Oh, no.
They call about each case, ask you details that may not have been filled in or for more information.
Yep.
After you submit the report, you get an immediate e-number, which is basically a temporary number.
Then VAERS kind of looks further into the case.
And many times they request medical records or they call the provider and they want to discuss the case and you discuss it with a physician or a PA who works for VAERS.
And then once they gather all that data, they'll give you a permanent VAERS number with which you can give to the patient.
So they're very, it's a very involved process and they really do try to get the full story.
And that permanent number is a validation of your claim.
It's been looked at.
It's been validated.
Here's your permanent number.
It's not this wishy washy send system that they're making it out to be.
It should be respected and we've used it for many years.
Why all of a sudden is it considered, you know, it was considered fine before.
Now all of a sudden it's a wishy washy system.
It's kind of crazy.
Well it happens to be the only one.
It is the only one.
Designed by the CDC that runs our entire you know, health system in America. So if you have a
problem with it, you should complain to CDC.
And especially since it's the capture system that we're all being forced to use when you
made an emergency use authorization and turned our entire population to a test group. You would,
I'm amazed. It amazes me that we find ourselves today right now with Joe Biden threatening to
fine employers that have no business dealing with medicine or health, fine employers that don't
enforce this vaccine upon their employees. Yet, wouldn't it have been smarter not only
to give a mandate, but how about a fine on doctors and nurses that don't report?
Because we needed, we needed such a robust and accurate count of what was happening since too many people were getting it to really, you know, be able to figure out the numbers and we need all of that data.
And yet the opposite seems to be true.
So when you went to, you said I'm going to start using VAERS then, right?
I'm going to start doing my due diligence because I am seeing a lot of anomalies.
Um, you thought, well, I would imagine just like I would if I'm in a business, it's like, hey, do you know we're supposed to do this?
Did you start asking doctors and nurses around you if they knew that there was like a legal, like sort of a, an obligation, a law to fill out these VAERS reports?
Yes, very much.
And I actually went to my leadership and, and, and talked about it and I said, you know, does anybody aware of this?
Like we need to start doing this.
Yeah.
And of course, because it is such an involved process, nobody really wants to do it.
We don't have the time.
There's no time in your day to do it.
So they kind of came back at me and said, you know what, Deb?
If you want to take this on, that's OK.
Go ahead.
Go ahead and start reporting to VAERS.
And here I'm thinking I'm just taking on a couple of patients here and there.
Meaning like I'll give you some of the cases I think are like vaccine injury.
I don't have time for it.
But if you exactly I kind of volunteered to do this job because I felt it was It's important, right?
I recognize the importance of it right away.
We need to do this.
And so what I did was I put envelopes in our emergency room, in our fast track, because that's kind of where you're going to see these patients first.
And I told the providers, hey, put any patients you think may have something to do with it or you're not sure, just put them in there.
I'll review the cases and I'll start reporting.
And I did the same thing to many of my colleagues that I work with.
Not all of my colleagues agreed with me, because they really didn't want to even believe that these vaccines could even potentially cause any problems.
Right.
Plus, we didn't even know what problems we were supposed to be looking for.
Right.
So, I had a lot of my colleagues not really give me reports, but a lot that did.
But, like I said, this volunteer position turned into my entire week off.
That's all I was doing.
Wow.
And it's a long process.
So when you say long process, I've talked to, there's a lot of doctors that have reached out to us.
We've talked a lot about VAERS.
They're like, look, because of you or, you know, because of this situation, I'm looking to VAERS.
And I've had many of them say the same thing, but you don't understand, like to fill out a VAERS report,
especially one of my friends is an ER doctor.
And he says, in the ER, you're in, you're out, right?
Like you never know when you're gonna have time.
I would sit down to write a VAERS report.
It's really in depth.
And at first, they wanted lot numbers, like they're not even my patient.
I don't know what lot they use.
I didn't give them the vaccine, but I'm having this issue right now
and it should be reported.
So then I got to go find the lot number and, you know, but all of this, and you start figuring it out.
But they said, literally, if you get called, you know, you get called, you know,
we need you, you know, out on the floor and you run out, this system doesn't stay where it's at.
It just, once it shuts off, you're logged out and now you got to start all over again, which just seems like for all the computer systems in the world.
And by the way, if you're out there, Google or Microsoft or whoever builds this thing, You want to do these doctors a favor and set up a system where they can sort of save.
Here's a concept.
How about you save it as you go along so that you don't have to start over.
These people are busy.
They're trying to save lives.
But that's the problem, right?
Correct.
And one of the other things that happened to me numerous times is you get through the entire report and you click submit and then it says authentication failed.
And the whole report's gone, and you have to start all over again.
So what I was doing was saving some of it in a Word document, because I knew that potentially could happen, so I could just cut and paste, because it's just, yeah, it was very, very glitchy in the beginning.
It was really, oh gosh, I can't tell you how many patients that happened to, and I would sit at home and just, oh!
So now, what types of things were you seeing?
Let's just talk about some of the issues.
One of the things I found surprising, and well, I mean, and that we are hearing a lot about, and it's really weird, I've actually talked to oncologists.
One, you know, that I know very well, and others have mentioned this, that my cases, like they all talk about how they know their cases that are in remission, and they know the remission rates, and how often, you know, how long those hold, and how long they last, and what's going on.
And I've talked to several oncologists like I don't know what is going on, but so many of my patients that are in remission are just their cancer is coming back like overnight.
And one of the doctors I was talking to said, and I just started finally asking, wait a minute, did you get the vaccination?
And now they're starting to ask, did you get the vaccination?
Because it's throwing all their numbers off.
It's making them look bad, right?
I mean, all these cases popping up.
So one of the things that I noticed you said is you said you saw sort of a rise in cancer patients.
Yes.
What was it that triggered that?
Like how bad?
I mean, bad enough you could tell?
Very much so.
Actually, one of the early patients that I reported on was somebody whose cancer came back from remission and rapidly killed the individual.
I mean, it was kind of crazy.
I don't know.
The cancer was in remission, going about your life, and then all of a sudden, wham, it's back, and it's back with a vengeance to the point they couldn't get the patient on treatment quick enough, and it killed the patient.
And that's happened quite a few times.
Really?
Very noticeable.
And not just myself, but even by our oncology colleagues.
I actually called one of our oncologists about this particular patient, and he agreed, wow, this could really be possibly related.
And it was very early in the VAERS reporting and very early in this recognition.
And since that time, that's unfortunately a very common thing we see.
We're also seeing new cancers come out of nowhere.
Very weird things.
Again, that solid organ tumors that we can't get biopsied before they kill the patient.
Wow.
I mean, they just progressed so rapidly, you can't even get these patients a biopsy to find out what kind of cancer it was.
So the families are left with either an autopsy to determine what cancer it was or are just unknown.
Wow.
Yeah.
What other things?
What about thrombocytopenia?
This is something that we heard a lot about with the national Zeneca first in Europe and then Johnson and Johnson here.
We looked it up.
We discussed our show.
We're seeing Pfizer and Moderna seem to have the same problem.
Blood clots, thrombocytopenia.
Have you seen any of that?
Very much so.
Very much so.
Heart attacks, cardiomyopathies, thrombocytopenia, strokes are big ones.
Blood clots.
Interestingly enough, 2021 is the year that our blood thinners no longer work.
Wow.
It's amazing.
We've had quite a few patients that have developed pulmonary emboli as well as blood clots in the legs on full anticoagulation.
Full blood thinners.
Well, and I actually had a colleague tell me the other day, well, you know, drugs are not 100 percent.
And I'm like, it's interesting because in 2021, a lot of our drugs don't seem to be 100 percent anymore.
You know, it's kind of interesting.
And we're seeing some Bell's palsy.
I did report a couple of cases of Bell's palsy, a lot of odd neurologic complaints, seizures, people with these weird tremors.
It's like they can't they can't control their body.
I had a patient recently with that similar complaint.
A lot of falls, GI complaints, gastrointestinal complaints, brain bleeds.
One of the things we saw early on was elderly people passing out after the vaccine.
So they would get their second dose and then go home, they're feeling fine, and then the family would find them on the floor the next day.
Passed out, hit their head.
And to the point where I said, geez, maybe we should be telling people at these vaccine centers, if you've got an elderly patient, stay with them that night, because you might find them on the floor the next day.
Wow.
So, yeah, we were seeing a lot of that.
A lot of pneumonias.
That's another one.
Sepsis.
In the middle of the summer, you said?
Yes.
I mean, which is weird, right?
It's weird.
Usually you're not getting the flu, you're not getting cold, you should be doing the best you're going to do all year, and yet you're seeing pneumonia everywhere.
Oh, yes.
And keeping in mind that, you know, in the spring, early summer, we were out of the masks, you know, where I live.
You know, we were free.
We thought this was over.
And yet we're getting inundated in the hospital with people with pneumonia.
And we're saying, geez, you're outside.
It was a beautiful summer.
You're getting fresh air.
You're not in these masks.
This is very odd.
It's very odd.
So you start reporting all these and there's a phone call we have now.
Was this, I think, was it with the U.S.
State Department?
The New York State Department of Health.
The New York State Department, okay.
Let's go ahead and listen to this and I'm going to ask you a few questions.
When you talk about New York State numbers and that the vaccine is safe and effective, how do we know that?
Because if no cases are being reported to you guys of fully vaccinated patients who are coming in with COVID, then how can we make that claim?
Because I can tell you, we just lost a guy the other day to COVID pneumonia.
He died and he was fully vaccinated in March.
And came in with severe COVID pneumonia and died in our ICU.
So, I mean, that wasn't reported to you guys.
So, how can you claim as a state that they're safe and effective when hospitals are seeing this and you guys aren't made aware?
Because there's no mandate to be made aware.
Right.
It's not a state claim, though.
That's also something that's federal.
But I understand what you're saying.
But that's why it is important.
We do want people, we want all the providers to be able to report this.
Even if it's not mandated, we do want to because like that's the only way that, like you said, this will be able to be found out.
But there is no education.
Like I said, it's the only education we're receiving is how we're supposed to be pushing the vaccine.
But there's no education about what to do when a patient has a problem.
Deb, I feel you and I really do appreciate your work and I hope you continue doing it because we, even though it's not something that I could say at this moment that I know for sure that it's mandated because that's what I'm So, why were you reaching out?
at least not in the way that it, unless they're an actual vaccination provider
that was giving out vaccine.
Oh, the enforcement is not there.
So why were you reaching out?
To try and say, why are you not getting more doctors and nurses to fill these things out?
Right.
I had actually first written a couple of emails to the FDA because I didn't, this is all new to me, I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing but I knew what was happening was wrong and needed to be heard and told because my duty is always to my patient and doing the right thing.
So I wrote a couple of emails to the FDA alerting them of what was going on, you know, thinking that they were going to get back to me and we're going to have some solution to this problem and I heard nothing back.
So then, again, I then reached out to the State Department of Health and said, hey, can you guys help me out?
Can you help me understand what's going on here and who am I supposed to be reporting to?
And like I said, they really weren't terribly helpful either.
It's weird because it's like she's repeating what you're saying but doesn't really want to do anything about it.
Like, yeah, no, you're right.
No, we're, you know, really, we're not going to know how many injuries there are if people like you don't do it.
And you're like, but why then aren't you having a program to teach us to do it?
Like, right?
Perfect sense.
You saw a need, right?
I mean, that's what a good employee does.
You see a need.
We have a problem in this hospital.
Doctors and nurses, and I'm assuming then you reach out to the State Department thinking this must be happening in every hospital.
Every hospital, because if they're like me, I didn't know about theirs.
And so we're telling people the vaccine is safe and effective, but how will we come to that determination if nobody's reporting the injuries that are actually happening?
Correct.
Correct.
Were you, what did you feel like when you would get done with a phone call like that?
I'm sure you're having many, like is it just...
Did you start thinking, do they just not care?
Are they stupid?
I mean, what runs through your head?
I was frankly just floored.
I just, I couldn't understand why, again, if you're going to release an emergency use product that we don't have any really long-term, short-term safety data on an entire population of people that were not represented in the clinical trials, why wouldn't you assure that that safety reporting was Uh, done.
That the people who would be potentially seeing injuries would be educated.
Hey, we're rolling out these vaccines.
You know, you might be seeing something.
You know, these are some of the conditions we might see.
Make sure this is what you do.
This is what you do.
You report to VAERS.
Wouldn't you want that?
So it was mind-boggling to me.
I mean, it's funny, I tell one of my colleagues all the time, on an average day, I think I'm crazy.
I'm going crazy.
I'm like, why doesn't anybody else see this?
Why is it so difficult?
It just seems like it's just the right thing to do.
We're health care providers.
Our first duty is to do no harm and to assure safety for our patients and our communities.
That's what we do.
So you start filling out your own and you're filling out those from people that are just like, I'm too busy or I don't want to deal with it.
I want to figure it out.
So could you just fill them out?
So then does that.
So as you said, you took up a whole week trying to fill those out.
Did anybody tell you like, was there anyone staff that said, you know, as your friend, I'm not sure that this is a good idea.
Like this might get you in trouble.
Were you or were you under the impression this hospital is going to support this work?
Yeah, I never thought in a million years that anybody would be against this idea.
Because again, I have this belief that we're all healthcare workers and we have a common goal of doing the right thing and keeping our patients safe.
Because that's what's grilled in us every day.
We have this safety Meeting every day at work about keeping the patients and the staff and the community safe.
So I never in a million years thought that it would be looked at in any negative light.
And I didn't really get any really pushback from any of my colleagues, so to speak.
It wasn't from that.
What was that environment like?
Maybe, you know, as you're having lunch for things, this is I mean, it must be a conversation that you thought was interesting.
Was everybody engaging the conversation?
No, no.
There were many that kind of laughed, laughed at me and said, oh, you know, you're just you're being too emotional about this.
You're being that you always care too much.
You're looking too much into this.
You know, why are you wasting your time?
You know, I'm like, because it's the right thing to do, guys.
You know, so I had a few that really, you know, Kind of shook me off and said that I was just being ridiculous about it.
But I had quite a few that supported this.
And they were like, no.
Makes sense.
But again, they know me.
That's the kind of person I am.
I tend to be the one that's very kind of outspoken in my hospital when I see things that need maybe to be looked into or something that I get passionate about.
Because that's my role as a leader.
So as a leader then, obviously you thought, well, I would normally be involved in committees all the time.
I put out protocols.
You decided to sort of reach out to the whole staff in the hospital in an email and just let them know what you were doing and what issues did you sort of address in that email to everyone in the hospital?
So the original, the original email, are we talking about the original email that I sent out?
And I basically told my administrative leaders, people above me, this is what I'm going to be doing.
Let me have it here.
We wanted to address concerns surrounding the Johnson & Johnson vaccine and being associated.
I can't read that.
Oh, this is thrombocytopenia.
You're discussing thrombocytopenia as an issue that you're seeing, which has reduced platelets, right?
The platelets have dropped to the floor.
So, what was it you were saying in that email?
Well, there was an email sent to us, kind of globally, to the medical staff about a syndrome called VITT, V-I-T-T.
If I remember, it was at the bottom of an email.
I kind of saw it and I said, well, geez, I don't really understand what they're trying to say because it wasn't very detailed.
So I went and looked it up and I found a journal article talking about it and kind of gave a protocol of how you're supposed to approach these patients when they come into the hospital.
So I sent kind of a rebuttal email to those people involved to kind of let them know, you know, I'm going to just elaborate on this further because if you do the wrong thing, you could potentially harm the patient.
So I added additional Things we really should be looking at based on this journal article I looked at.
And that's kind of when things turned for different, I guess.
So you're trying to warn your hospital.
And I'm going to assume like one of the things I know was a big issue and there's this turning point for people that got thrombocytopenia drop in platelets.
But a lot of times what was so interesting and rare with the vaccine injury compared to what we see in nature, was you're getting blood clots and thrombocytopenia at the
same time.
Blood clots usually caused by too many platelets or platelets coming together creating blood
clots.
So you give drugs to thin that out, to drop the platelets in order to get rid of the blood
clots.
But in this circumstance, I'm sure people died because we started this alarm that went
off.
You can't give heparin, you can't give a blood thinner because they're already having issues
with not having enough platelets.
So is that a part of what you were trying to say?
You could kill somebody if you're not aware of this issue.
Right, and there's a blood test that you're supposed to order kind of immediately if you
suspect the syndrome based on these criteria.
So that's all I was trying to do is just kind of elaborate a little bit further on that, that original email just to, because again, this could be very detrimental to a patient if we miss this.
And this is something that obviously they're seeing around the world that they wrote an article about it.
I think it was in the Journal of Cardiology or one of the cardiology journals.
So I said, geez, if they're seeing it across the country, this is something I think we really need to talk about maybe a little bit further.
So we're all educated on what we should be seeing.
But it's a vaccine injury.
You're discussing something happens from vaccine injury.
You're talking to the entire staff about it.
So they're looking out for it.
Your People above you were not very happy about that.
Right.
Because they said that I should have kind of directed that email to my direct leader.
Okay.
And let that person... We actually have this conversation.
So folks, here is the actual phone call that took place.
We've all been in those moments where the boss is not happy with what's happened.
In this case, I want you to think about what's being discussed.
She's trying to save people's lives.
And the hospital doesn't want to have any part of that.
Listen to this.
I know you had sent out an email to some folks this morning, and so I wanted to make sure we had an opportunity to talk about this sooner versus later.
So, you know, I listened up.
I know you're, I absolutely understand your concerns about the vaccine, and I absolutely believe that your heart is in the right place with You know, with wanting to make sure that we are doing our due diligence and reporting the adverse events.
That said, the email that went out this morning really needed to be discussed, but I think that we really need to make sure that we're providing a consistent message to our team, and we need to make sure that that's also in alignment with what What our health system is asking us to do.
There's a risk to the organization from a perspective of both under-reporting and over-reporting.
So, how do we make sure that we're sending the right message out to our providers and that they have the information that they need to be doing this correctly?
Because I share your belief that it's important that we get these reports in.
But I think we have to be thinking a little bit more about the process and what sort of is expected here.
From what our risk team is telling us is that really you can only be reporting on the patients that you are providing direct care for.
And so you cannot... And I know you've been volunteering and trying to be helpful, but we need you to kind of dial it back and focus on the patients that you are directly responsible for.
And then if folks do reach out to you, because you've been saying, hey, reach out to me, they need to be directed to VAERS and they need to do the process themselves.
I have been telling them to do it and they don't do it.
The reason I took this on is because nobody else wants this response.
I mean it's brutal because you then will be getting phone calls from the CDC every single day as a result.
I mean the FDA you know really is the problem here because they did not advise hospital systems what we're supposed to be doing.
The approach has been that this is the responsibility of the individual provider who believes that they have identified a potential adverse event.
I know this is frustrating, but you can't control whether or not someone else is going to put the report in.
You can control what you do for your patients, and then I think if you're concerned that folks are not reporting on their patients, you're welcome to put it in.
You're welcome to talk to Pete or myself and we can kind of address those with providers.
But like I said, I brought this up back in February and I've seen no response.
I mean that's my frustration is this, we are not doing these patients a service and again, They did not tell us, and they still will not tell me, what conditions are we supposed to be reporting?
They are vague.
They don't know because they never got the clinical trials.
They never did them.
We are the clinical trials.
That's basic.
I don't want us to go down any kind of rabbit hole here, but I think the thing we have to And I think, and I'm just going to be frank with you
because that's the only way I know I've been done, but I will tell you in reading, you know,
in reading the few emails that you sent me and then in reading the email that went out to the
provider, it does come across a bit very vaccine...
I say very, but it comes out quite...
It comes out quite almost anti-vaccine, right?
And, you know, clearly as an organization, as a health system, right?
And as, you know, someone who, you know, as an organization that's working on following
CDC guidelines and following the guidance of the Department of Health, we are very much
advocating for patients to receive the vaccine.
for patients to receive the vaccine.
And we're very much working on, you know, there's tons of efforts out there
And we're very much working on, you know, there's tons of efforts out there to try to
to try to reduce vaccine hesitancy.
reduce vaccine hesitancy.
I have some concerns, Deb, that the tone that you have with this a little bit
is certainly being felt on the floor, right?
And being felt by your colleagues.
We need to be a little bit careful about that, right?
You know, I support your mission and goal of wanting to make sure that we are following the law
and that we are reporting adverse events.
But I also want to make sure that as a leader in the organization and as a provider within the
organization that you understand we want people to get the vaccine,
right?
We want people to understand that on the whole this is a very safe vaccine, right?
And that the science supports that.
I appreciate it, I do, but I can't understand why as a whole You know, in the world, people are acting like everything is grand.
It's not.
It's clearly not.
I think we may have to agree to disagree on sort of what's happening, you know, kind of globally with the vaccine.
I do think that we're seeing, you know, yes, yes, just like other vaccines, if there are folks who are going to have it be negatively impacted.
but certainly on the whole, we've seen, you know, a tremendous benefit to the vaccine.
You and I are not individual providers.
We're employed providers.
We've come to company line.
That's part of our responsibility is to be, you know, is to be supporting the mission of the,
of the, the missions of the organization.
So even when we're getting COVID-19 patients who are positive and fully vaccinated in the hospital,
we're going to leave it up to the individual provider to report.
Because I'm telling you they're not reporting.
That should be reported every time and it's not.
I can tell you, I know patients because I've only reported them because the provider didn't.
I have yet to see one double-blinded randomized controlled clinical trial that shows that, you know, these vaccines are going to be effective.
Long term, after six months, whatever.
We don't know that.
You know, and if we're not reporting hospitalized patients who are coming in fully vaccinated with COVID, that's an atrocity.
I mean, it's an absolute atrocity.
What we do see though, and I know it's an FDA approved thing, but we see people with a pneumovax come in with pneumonia all the time, and people with a flu shot come in with the flu all the time.
Um, just because the vaccines, whether they're COVID or they're flu or they're pneumovacs, they're not perfect vaccines.
Oh, I agree.
We have no long-term studies.
Right now, the CDC is saying that these vaccines are only effective for six months.
I mean, but yet we're telling people, take off your masks and run around if you're vaccinated.
But at the same time, the CDC is saying, you're not.
So, I mean, it's crazy.
It's just crazy.
This is new for all of us.
I don't, you know, this is Um, you know, certainly a different thing than we've seen.
Just to be sort of clear, um, you know, again, I absolutely support your work on making sure that you're reporting these events.
You cannot report for other folks, and so just direct them to report on their own.
You're a leader, and your voice carries a lot of weight with the team, and they're It seems to be very widely known that you're extremely skeptical of this vaccine.
You know, you have every right to your personal beliefs and your personal opinions, Beth, but we just need to be careful as providers and leaders that we are also trying to be consistent with the mission and the message of the organization.
From now on, if somebody comes up to you, I'm just going to tell them, look, you've Do your own research.
I don't know.
Or talk to their medical doctor.
I mean, if they're asking for themselves, tell them to talk to their provider, right?
I would just be a little bit careful about that stuff, okay?
You know, whenever you take a new medicine or even though, you know, obviously a vaccine, it's a risk-benefit decision.
It's a little bit unknown, but at the same time, the CDC and the Department of Health
are recommending it for everybody.
I think that letting people know, yes, there's risk, but yes, there's benefit.
And currently, the national sort of people are pushing to have these things done.
And then, you know, you can say, look at your own research or things like that.
But I just want to be careful that we don't discourage people in a time where we're really
trying to get the population vaccinated and get this disease under control.
I'm mad at our governing organization in this country, because I do not feel that they prepared
us providers with this rollout for what we are supposed to be doing.
We have no guidance.
We have no answers.
And when I try to call the drug companies for answers, they give me the same song and dance about how, you know, everything's under experimental use and we don't have any answers and we can't advise you.
I wouldn't buy a damn dryer from a company like that who won't stand behind their product.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
A couple of statements I want to make before we continue.
First of all, that came from about a 25-minute recording that was about eight minutes of that.
I like to, you know, I know other news programs, you would probably just get 30 seconds that we'd all move on.
I think it's really important that we sort of hear the culture of what's going on.
It's clear in that conversation there's one of three people that care about the interests of the patients the way we would want them to, we expect them to, and others that are saying things like, you know, you've got to tow the company line.
Uh, it really is what the health system wants, not what we want to do.
I mean, these types of discussions happening.
I also want to make it clear because so many of you out there are whistleblowers.
Many of you are already talking to us, but if you're interested in being a whistleblower, all you have to do is go to just go to whistlebloweratthehighwire.com.
Send us an email.
It's totally private.
I'm sorry, whistleblower at ICanDecide.org.
Whistleblower at ICanDecide.org.
We will begin a private conversation with you.
As I've said, we've had many of those conversations going.
Very few decided to come in front of the camera and we will never discuss that until you do.
I also want to make it clear that if you are one of these people that is inside of a hospital system, that phone call was recorded in New York, right?
Correct?
Correct.
Which is a one-party state.
What that means is it's legal to record a phone call without the other party knowing.
You may not live in a one-party state.
If you live in a two-party state where both sides need to know they're being recorded, we would never want you to break the law.
So be very careful before you decide to do what Deb did here.
Make sure that you know the laws of your state and that it's legal for you to record or videotape the conversations that you are having.
And then once you have those though, and you've done it legally, please reach out to us, and we will discuss what you can do with those.
Okay, so with all of that being said, I want to get back to this incredible conversation.
Clearly, they're upset with you.
You sent out an email saying we should be very aware of this thrombocytopenia.
We could kill people.
This is very important, but they're like, you know, you really should have talked to us first.
And like I said, when she's saying, we need a consistent message and we're really trying to promote the vaccine.
We don't want vaccine hesitancy.
We're trying to get over that.
And you're kind of starting to sound like you're anti-vaccine and we can't have that.
Was that the response when that phone call when you got, you know, I'm sure like you get the call, we'd like to have a conversation with you.
Did you think this was coming?
I knew that after I sent out that... Actually, I shouldn't say that.
When I sent out that email, again, I thought I was doing the right thing.
I'm like, these are people I've worked with for a very long time.
They respect me highly.
I really didn't think I would get that response.
And then I did.
That's when everything kind of changed.
And again, I was like, I don't understand.
I just don't understand.
Why?
It's about the patient.
That's what this is about.
That's our job.
It's about the patient.
It's amazing.
You keep hearing these statements that, you know, the science tells us it's safe and effective.
And you're sitting here thinking, I don't trust the science anymore because we're the ones that are supposed to be reporting this.
And you're literally being told, stop reporting for anyone else in the hospital.
You know no one else is.
So you're going to represent what?
One out of how many doctors that's reporting in your hospital?
There's quite a few.
How many?
There's quite a few.
I mean, if you think about the ER doctors, the hospitalist doctors, even the surgeons would see some cases.
I mean, maybe 20 doctors, but then there's PAs, too, that are seeing things or could be seeing things that would be reporting.
I mean the clinics too, the outpatient clinics.
So we're just going to try and take some math out of what's happening in this one hospital.
We're seeing about 1 out of 20 of the amount of cases that could be being seen in this hospital.
And so, so far, you know, how many cases do you think you should have reported to VAERS?
I kind of lost track at 120.
I have quite a few still that I need to report.
And it's just such a daunting task.
I've been so busy.
It's really hard to do.
And again, keeping in mind, again, the far majority of those are now only my patients.
And again, they're not all at all.
And I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but I'm in a small hospital system.
And so, not only this phone call, we've got some emails that they sent to you.
They're a little bit annoyed.
Let's take a look at one or two of these emails.
Per our discussion, moving forward, you will only report adverse... They obviously want to get this through to you.
They want to make sure you heard, only report adverse events you encounter on your patients.
If another provider sends you patient information, requests you to file a report, you will advise them they need to complete the report with VAERS themselves.
Additionally, in your clinical role and as a leader in the organization, you will support the approach to the vaccine, which is following CDC and DOHL guidelines.
I'm assuming someone's name is there.
We're going to black that out to protect them.
As mentioned, I will be meeting with System Incidents Command leaders specifically to discuss the blank approach to VAERS reporting.
Currently, VAERS reporting is the responsibility of the provider caring for the patient.
Um, so they're clear that you were not supposed to be doing anything.
If anyone comes to you, you now have to say, now were there any, what happened when those people that were bringing reports and you said to them, look, you really now need to report this yourself.
How did that conversation go?
Do you think they took that on?
No.
No.
Because it's such an unbelievable task.
They just can't.
So then what happened was a nurse in the organization started collecting patients that she thought would be patients that needed to be reported and would put them kind of in my drawer.
And then I was supposed to put them in that Safe Connect system.
But again, who's going to pay me?
This is going to take an unbelievable amount of time.
And I even had a conversation kind of with my leadership talking about that and, and that, you know, we put these in the system, but where do they go?
Who follows up on them?
And how do I know that these patients got reported?
Because, because some of them, you know, again, they directed me not to report on patients that weren't mine.
But before that happened, I had talked to some families about their, their loved one's cases being reported and they're waiting for their report.
They're waiting for their case numbers and they're not going to get them.
Right.
You know, because I was kind of halted from doing that.
So, you know, to put these patients in this system is, again, a very involved process.
And who has time to do that?
I guess it would only matter if we cared about the safety of humanity right now and the future of our species.
When, you know, earlier on in the show and you've been here sort of sitting and watching it, there's this discussion going on, you know, the epidemic of the unvaccinated, the unvaccinated are filling the hospitals.
You only have the view of your hospital.
Is that your experience?
That it's mostly unvaccinated people that are coming into the hospital?
Or is there, you know, at least some that are vaccinated that are either suffering from COVID?
But as you're saying, and that's what I thought was interesting, that phone call, right?
He's like, well, we know flu shot people coming with the flu after.
We know pneumonia shot that come with pneumonia after it.
That really wasn't a lot of what you're reporting.
We're reporting breakthrough cases.
You're reporting heart problems, strokes, you know, shaking, seizures.
I mean, That's different.
You know, it's one thing to report breakthrough cases, but these people are really messed up, right?
Right, and we know the efficacy of the flu and the pneumonia vaccine.
We know the efficacy because they went through the full testing and everything, so we know.
With these, we don't know the efficacy, which is why that's not a good comparison because we don't have that data.
That's the whole reason we are reporting this stuff, so you know.
So from an inside look, inside of a hospital, what percentage of cases coming in, you know, to ICU, into the ER, these things are unvaccinated compared to vaccinated?
So that that is something I've actually been kind of tracking for a couple of months.
OK.
And specifically in July, I had a particular day where we had 35 patients on our inpatient hospital census just for our group, and 30 of them were fully vaccinated.
And out of those seven, all seven patients in the ICU were fully vaccinated.
And nine of the patients of so so nine of those patients were listed initially as unvaccinated.
But I went back and checked and talked to the patient and they actually were vaccinated.
So I updated the system.
Explain that to me.
So how are they coming in on why?
Why is that discrepancy taking place?
Because on admission there is no requirement to ask about the vaccine.
Okay.
So and our system is set up that if you're fully vaccinated in our health system somewhere one of our clinics or somebody has put it in in one of our outpatient clinics it'll automatically kind of be put into the electronic health record.
Okay.
But if you're vaccinated say at a some CVS pharmacy or something outside of the system,
that's not going to be automatically put in that system unless you ask.
Okay.
So it'll list you as unvaccinated in the system.
So you have to, you know, again, it's not a question on admission that is asked,
even if, you know.
Which is crazy.
Yeah, it's not asked.
Of an emergency use authorization situation.
Right.
So what I would do is then I would ask my colleagues who had those patients, hey, ask them if they're vaccinated or the nurse, ask them if they're vaccinated.
And then if they are, we'd get their information and we'd update the system.
Right.
And so I updated the system for that day.
7 of 9?
Nine of those 35 patients were listed as unvaccinated and they actually weren't.
So then I updated the system and found out there were 30 out of 35 patients that day in the hospital fully vaccinated.
And at that point our county vaccination rate was about 45-46 percent.
And yet, who's in the hospital sick?
And I did bring this up, and I was told, well, a lot of them are elderly and things like that, and they're more likely to be vaccinated, and there's a lot of things that could affect those numbers.
But it's still odd, right?
Every patient in the ICU that day was fully vaccinated.
Where are our sick, unvaccinated people?
I mean, we do get them, don't get me wrong, but compared to our vaccinated patients, they're in there and they're sick.
And I'm not saying just from COVID, I'm talking about all these other weird conditions.
And many of these vaccinated people are actually on their third, fourth, fifth admissions.
After the vaccine.
I actually spoke with a VAERS representative the other day about this because I said to her, I said, you know, I've got a I've got a lady I'm reporting.
She called me about and I said, she's back in the hospital again.
This will be her fifth update to VAERS.
And I told her it's a daunting task because every time they get readmitted and they have a case number, you're supposed to update VAERS and let them know, hey, they're back in the hospital with a new condition.
Wow.
Yeah, it's yeah.
There's nurses and doctors protesting, taking to the streets now all across this nation because of vaccine mandates in their hospitals.
And I've said on this show, I can only guess.
I'm not, I'm not working in a hospital, but I've never, I worked for the Doctors Television Show.
I've worked with doctors and nurses for, I won an Emmy Award doing that work for six years for CBS.
I've never met nurses and doctors that don't believe in vaccines or don't sort of get the vaccine if they're told to get the vaccine.
This is this crazy anomaly taking place.
And I can only assume that for a group of people that normally just sort of believe in vaccinations to be Walking away from their jobs the way they are, they've obviously seen some of the things that you've seen.
They've seen something that's scaring them and making them really nervous about the vaccine.
So under these circumstances, you're in New York, I gotta believe the pressure's on.
After what you've seen, are you going to get this vaccine?
Absolutely not.
I'm terrified.
Really?
I am more afraid of this vaccine than I am of COVID.
Okay.
How is that working out with your hospital?
Well, my last day is going to be the 27th of September.
I will be let go from my position.
Just because you won't get the vaccination?
Correct.
And as I understand it, it's supposed to be a voluntary termination.
I'm not volunteering to leave.
I love my job.
I want my job.
My community needs me.
But I'm scared.
I'm scared because of what I've seen.
And when you think of your career, you know, all the time in this hospital, these are your friends, these are your patients, this is your community.
The thought that these may be your last days getting to do your job.
What do you reflect on in your career and coming to this moment?
It's very difficult because I am very well respected in my community.
I cannot tell you.
I haven't just been at the hospital.
I always, before I had my kids, I always worked two and three jobs.
And I worked in offices and urgent cares and different things.
The community knows me.
I love my community.
I serve them well.
And the fact that I'm not going to be able to do that devastates me.
It just devastates me.
Because when I leave, who's going to be their voice?
Who's going to be these people's voice when they come in?
Because they're going to come in with their vaccine injuries after I'm gone.
And who's going to be their voice?
They don't have one.
And that is what devastates me, because they deserve a voice.
They deserve to be heard.
Many of them can't work anymore.
They're on disability.
They're dead.
They've got children.
They've got lives.
Many of them don't have disability insurance, and they've got hospital bills mounting.
Well, they don't have a voice because they're being told they're crazy, you know?
That is what devastates me the most.
And you know, again, I'll give up my career because, and many will, I got many on my side who are walking away from careers that they love because they're so scared.
And that's the truth.
And I have four particular patient families that I think about when I thought about coming on this show, because I talk to them on a regular basis and I did, I helped them.
You know, I help them and and that's what I'm supposed to do.
That's the job I signed up for.
Well, I want to thank you for doing that job.
I want to thank you for the courage it takes to express this because it's not only your voice to all of those out there that are thinking of the vaccine, those that have been injured, but also those other nurses and doctors out there.
I think you represent courage and what it means to do the right thing, and I hope that because of this show and this work, and you're getting your story out there, that more people start reporting the virus so we can get a clearer idea of what's actually happening with this experimental product.
Thank you so much for joining us, Deborah.
You're welcome, Bill.
Thank you.
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