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Feb. 8, 2021 - Jim Fetzer
01:13:14
The Truth About Virus & Bacteria with Dr. Tom Cowan
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Everyone, welcome back to Healthcare 360.
I am your host, Scott Burgess.
Today's guest is very unique and at the same time, he's a retired medical practitioner as well as an author.
And his new book, which is recently released in September of 2020, Contagion Myth, and other books that you may find interesting are Human Heart and the Cosmos, Vaccines, Autoimmunity, And the change in nature of childhood illness, as well as cancer and the new biology of water.
He's a Duke University graduate, became a physician and has been practicing or has practiced for 35 plus years of medicine.
He is a really atypical story.
And I found really interesting as some of the interviews that I've heard him in the past, where he has gone through into the Peace Corps, et cetera.
and learn different ways and different methods of medicine, Dr. Tom Cowan.
So, welcome to Healthcare 360.
We appreciate you being here and thank you for taking the time, sir.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So, I have a... It was almost to the point when I was preparing and getting ready for this conversation, where to start.
And there's really so much.
So why don't we start into your latest book, Contagion Myth, and talk, because it's not necessarily about COVID-19, although we will get into that a little bit, but talk about the history there.
There's so much that's just packed in and you're going really deep back in the 1800s, if you don't mind.
I mean, so one of the premises of the book was quite simply, We tried to look at, I mean, the basis of it is I don't believe things just because everybody else does or because somehow I was told that this is true.
Right.
So I wrote a book about the heart doesn't pump the blood, blocked arteries don't cause heart attacks.
You get chronic sickness because of vaccines.
Cancer is not a genetic disease.
So I'm no stranger to Not believing things that I don't believe.
So the question is, do bacteria and viruses cause disease?
And the first thing I would point out is there is no history in any other type of medicine, Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, Native American medicine, for thinking that that was the case.
So When they decided that that was in fact the case in the mid-1800s, basically Pasteur and Robert Koch and a few others, that was a break from history.
Now, that doesn't mean they're wrong, but it's just interesting.
And so they had this idea that unseen things could cause disease, and then they had what I call the first eureka moment, and they had a light microscope.
And they saw bacteria, and so it was like, aha, that's what's causing disease.
And it is true that if you have a site of injury or disease, like tonsils that hurt and are inflamed, you know, in a lot of cases, you see bacteria called strep in the area.
I would point out that nobody thinks because you see bacteria in the area of something, that means they cause the disease.
Unless you think maggots kill dogs, which most, you know, reasonably sane people wouldn't think that.
Right.
So they did what was what any normal person would do, which is so you have people who are sick, you find this bacteria, because they could see them.
And then you do the same thing that that you would do if I said, Can you prove that the caffeine in coffee beans causes high blood pressure, right?
So you would take coffee beans, you would grind it, you would filter it, you would centrifuge it, and you would pull out only the caffeine, right?
You wouldn't give somebody just a coffee bean because there's millions of things or hundreds or thousands of things in a coffee bean.
So that wouldn't prove it's the caffeine.
So they did the same thing.
They took, you know, snot or lung stuff or lesions.
They pulled out the bacteria, right?
That's called isolation.
Just like, if I want to know whether if I shoot this rubber band at you, it'll make your head hurt.
I can't shoot a cannon with a rubber band in it, right?
Because that's stupid.
You have to take the rubber band and see if that's the problem.
So they took out the bacteria.
And there is no example that me and you know our whole team of people and people I've interviewed in the medical research where an isolated bacteria caused sickness.
Now you could say I don't believe it but I would love to see the evidence that that's true.
I didn't say they're not there, but just like, you know, if you have a compost pile and you put dead squirrels in it, you'll get bacteria eating the squirrels.
As far as I know, no sane, rational human being says the compost pile has an infection.
Right?
And not only that, but if you transfer those bacteria to a normal compost, they don't grow.
So bacteria are scavengers in nature.
Feeding off dead and diseased tissue.
They're there to help you out.
I mean, imagine the forest if, you know, you cut down a tree and there was no fungus and bacteria, right?
What would happen?
The trees, dead trees would sit there forever.
Eventually the forest would die.
You and all the rest of us would die if we don't have bacteria recycling our dead and dying tissue.
And we misconceived them as pathogens.
And if anybody doubts that, they have to send me a study saying, here's an isolation, not just exposing people to like snot, you know, which is not isolated, right?
That doesn't prove anything.
And we couldn't find it.
So then you go on and then they had diseases.
So they were committed to In spite of the evidence, and that's important.
So, like a lot of science, they start with the theory and then they go looking for evidence to support their theory, not the other way around, which is you make observations and you try to understand what the sense of those observations are.
They said all diseases are caused by germs, right?
That's the theory.
They found bacteria in some, but some, like polio, they couldn't find a bacteria.
So they said, there must be something smaller than a bacteria.
And they called it a virus, which means poison.
And the main one they studied was polio.
So here's how they proved that polio was caused by this virus.
Right?
So try to see if you can get this.
I mean, you're a smart guy.
I'm sure you can.
So here's the thing.
So they say all bacteria caused by germ, all diseases.
We have this polio.
We can't find any bacteria.
There must be something smaller.
So they took people who died of polio.
They grind up their brains and they filter it.
And so you have basically unpurified stuff, right?
And they expose 20 different animals to it.
None of them got sick.
And so then they said, it's because there are no animal models for polio.
It says that in Wikipedia today, which I mean, right.
So then they said, well, we can, we can do one more thing.
We can take two monkeys, drill a hole in their brain, inject about a half a cup of this stuff into their brain, not do a control.
Like what happens If you take two monkeys and you drill a hole in their brain and squirt a half a cup of saline or water or milk or who knows?
Probably nothing good.
Anyways, the two monkeys, one died, one got paralyzed.
1907, they hold the monkey up and say that proves polio is contagious and caused by a virus.
That's unbelievable.
I remember you saying that in a past interview.
What's their rationale for that conclusion?
That doesn't make any sense.
I don't know.
Their rationale is like, I'm a lunatic and I made this up.
And I expect people to believe me because we know that these are caused by things that we can't see.
I mean, I can't tell you what the rationale is because I don't get it.
And everything I've, again, studied and listening to this again, it sounds like, and correct me if I'm misleading this a little bit away, but I want to make sure that it's digestible for the audience, but the virus and bacteria is just a dance of energy with us, and it's our evacuation system to the world.
Yes, but you can get more specific, because then, just to, if I could finish the story, Yeah.
So they have 40 years where they can't see anything, right?
They just say it's too small to see.
And interestingly, they said they'll never see it because it's too small.
And then somebody invents an electron microscope in the 30s, and they could see these particles in people like with polio.
And so there they are.
Eureka, we found it.
So they did the same thing back in the 30s as they did with bacteria.
They isolate the virus, right?
Because you can't give somebody a coffee bean and say that it's the caffeine that made their blood pressure go up, right?
That's not what's called normal thinking.
So they took snot or diseased tissue from people with polio, rounded up, filtered it, centrifuged it, pulled out the one stuff, the one band, Proved that that was just these particles called polioviruses, they said, and then exposed 20 different animals to it.
None got sick.
They did this for 20 years with every particle called a virus they could think of.
And as far as we can tell, there is no case to be made that any animal got sick.
And so they said, we disproved that viruses cause disease.
What these particles are is that if something happens to you, right?
So you get poison, your tissue breaks down, you detoxify by getting rid of these particles.
So what I said at the beginning, it's like the tissues pooping out poisons.
And it's a beneficial system that also communicates, A, I got rid of poison, right?
Me, it tells the other tissues in my body and maybe even other people, hey, I got poisoned.
You should watch out.
I mean, that's how trees do it.
Beetles eat a tree and the trees know they're all in it together, right?
Because if there's only one tree left, they can't keep the water in the soil and it's too hot.
So they die.
So they send out signals to all the other trees to defend themselves.
Which then means that this whole idea of Darwinian survival, the fittest, genetic mutations driving evolution, is complete nonsense.
Complete nonsense.
Adaptation is a communication system amongst living organisms, primarily through these packaged pieces of genetic material.
So what would be, outside of poison, what else would a virus be considered?
I mean a virus is considered to be a piece of genetic material in a package of protein.
But the difference is they come from inside us.
If people don't believe me, I have a paper, Viruses July 2020, and it's called Exosomes and Viruses.
And they say, quote, however, to date, a reliable method that can guarantee a separation from exosomes, meaning from the inside, from viruses does not exist.
Now, if people don't understand what I mean by that, a virus is a thing.
We're not talking about a feeling or a thought or a conception.
It's a thing, like a fork.
And when the CDC says, and I quote, July 2020, there are no quantified viral isolates of the SARS-CoV-2 virus are currently available.
There is no example of an isolated SARS-CoV-2 virus, according to the CDC in July 20.
Everything, like a fork, can be isolated.
This is a fork.
And if you have two forks, you can count it.
And then I can isolate this fork from this knife, right?
These are forks, that's a knife.
The only reason I can't isolate this fork from this fork It's because they're both forks.
You can't isolate this paper from the next paper if it's the same paper.
And the reason you can't isolate a pathogenic virus from something that comes from our own tissue is because they're both coming from the same tissue.
They're the same thing.
And we cannot wrap our brain around that because we're under a spell which makes it so we can't think straight.
So I want to ask this question and let me know if you want to answer it or not, because it could be controversial and I don't want to put any undue heat on you at all.
A lot of people have died.
I think that cat is out of the bag.
Probably, but I wanted to be respectful and house that.
And I'm not saying that people haven't died.
They're dying from mostly poisoning.
And particularly, you know, new radiation poisoning called millimeter waves, which essentially is like putting the world in a microwave oven.
And so their tissues break down, they get hypoxic.
We've known that millimeter waves, exposing people to it, makes them hypoxic for about 50 years.
That long?
50 years?
That long.
1977, the U.S.
Naval Intelligence Service And the Russians did extensive research on millimeter waves.
They found that millimeter waves degrade the oxygen in the environment and inhibit the ability of your tissues to turn oxygen into fuel.
And so that the people or the animals would become hypoxic.
They also said that they would produce a severe inflammatory reaction, which we now call a quote cytokine storm.
Now, most of the people who are dying are dying of the same things they've always died of.
Tom, can I take a time out real quick?
The reason why I want to, because I actually do have a question related to the cytokine storm.
So everyone understands the definition of this.
I did do a Google search.
Scientists believe the cytokines are evidence of a immune response called a cytokine storm, where the body starts to attack its own cells and tissues rather than fighting off a virus.
This is an important piece to separate out because that means the virus is now quote-unquote taken over and it's doing what it was intended to do is just destroy everything and kill it.
The cytokine storms are also known to happen autoimmune diseases such as juvenile arthritis.
This is the type of cytokine storm that you will find in a Google search if you type that in.
What is cytokine storm?
So I'm sorry for interrupting you, but I want to explain that to the audience and to see what it is as you go into this.
Yeah, but it's also nonsense.
Because they're saying that a cytokine storm is a way, partly, to clear out a virus.
And since there are no pathogens called viruses, there's no reason for a body to make a so-called immune response against something which is imaginary.
And so, in effect, if you actually are intellectually honest, And you realize that since bacteria and viruses don't cause disease, we don't actually need an immune system.
We need a detoxification and a tissue protective system.
That's different.
And if you poison somebody, their tissues will break down and the body will try to use its inflammatory mechanisms to clear out the poison.
Just like if you put a splinter in your finger, you'll generate pus in order to get the splinter out.
No sane person thinks you have an infection.
They think your body is trying to do a detoxification mechanism.
If you put air pollution and particulate matter in your lungs, or if you smoke, your body will try to use inflammatory methods And pus and inflammation to get the mucus, to get the smoke and debris out of your lungs, right?
That's normal.
And then their bacteria come to help to digest some of the debris.
That is not a reaction against a virus or bacteria.
That is a complete misconception, which is fundamental to, we in medicine and science have misinterpreted normal bodily reactions to to poisoning as somehow these are diseases and they're not.
And so then they make up things like immune systems and all the rest of it
to explain the stuff that doesn't make sense.
And, you know, we put a quote in our book if you want to know
about immune response to the virus.
This is, I happen to have said this many times, from the head of infectious disease
at Wake Forest University, big famous guy.
They asked him, what about the immune response to the coronavirus?
And he said, well, it's very clear.
If you have an immune response, it means you either had the virus or you didn't.
You were either sick or you weren't, and you're either immune or you're not immune.
And that's like going to buy a refrigerator and you say to the guy, what do you think about this refrigerator?
He says, yeah, it's good.
It'll either keep the food cold or it won't.
And mostly we would put those people, at least we used to it, in an insane asylum or at least get them to not sell refrigerators because obviously they don't know anything.
That's just a continuous string of double knots going right down the road there.
That's awesome.
It's pure nonsense.
But the problem is people hear that and they think, oh, this is so complicated.
I can't possibly understand it.
Instead of thinking, this guy is a lunatic.
And he doesn't make any sense because he doesn't know what he's talking about.
And we can't seem to get to that, you know, normal human reaction, which is trusting ourselves to understand that if somebody's talking nonsense, if day one they tell you masks don't work and day three they tell you masks do work, there's something wrong not with you, but with the understanding of the guy who's telling you this.
So a question for you here is I know you're against openly promoting products and I don't want you to do that.
I want to respect that.
Although I will redirect everyone to your website so you can benefit from this podcast.
But although I do have audience members who have asked me questions that they would like for you to answer if you don't mind.
So audience members, they want to know how can they learn of alternatives?
Well, like I said, you don't have an immune system, so the first thing is you should disentangle yourself from that misconception, or I would call it a delusion.
So the first thing is you should disentangle yourself from that misconception, or I would
call it a delusion.
And it's really because, you know, I used, you know, like anybody in their life, you
change and learn more and, you know, correct a lot of things that got wrong before.
Every single thing I got wrong, in my opinion right now, and there were a number of them, some of them relatively embarrassing ones, but they were because I believed the dominant narrative too much.
100%.
What was that narrative?
I mean, I said that years ago viruses caused disease because I didn't know enough.
I said, you know, I don't need to go through all that.
I mean, but as I, you know, Sarah, a lot of them, even as I was writing it, I was saying to myself, I don't think this is right, Tom.
But, you know, my publisher, I don't want to blame other people, but my editors say, you can't say this without writing a whole book about it.
So, okay, you know, I'll say that now.
And I'll deal with it some other time.
Those sort of things.
Anyways, you know, so the trouble with the answer, so anyways, I used to think the reason we get sick are injuries, starvation, right?
You get scurvy because you don't have any vitamin C. Or poisoning.
Poisoning is the main one.
But this whole thing has made me add a fourth category, which I call delusions.
So thinking ridiculous thoughts also makes people sick.
So we should try not to do that.
And so that's why I pick on people who say, what should I do to help my immune system?
Because that's an abstract question, which there's no answer to.
Well, let me ask you this.
Would you believe in the statement that beliefs lead to imagination, imagination leads to physiology, physiology leads to experience, and then that creates a vicious cycle.
And then you insert negative thought pattern, whatever, and it just keeps going around and around and around.
Because I actually believe the same thing, that your beliefs eventually lead to experience.
Right, that's pretty close.
I don't know if I totally agree with negative versus positive because I think there's room for, like you could say, I think a bear is chasing me and that's a negative thought.
Except if there is a bear chasing you.
Then it's actually a useful thought because you might want to run or get a gun or whatever.
Or talk to the bear and convince them not to eat you or something.
If you're saying a negative thought is, I'm going to put a router under my chair and sit in it for eight hours a day like I knew a guy who did, you end up getting rectal cancer.
And he would not believe that it had anything to do with this high-intensity router right underneath his chair.
And I said to the guy, you might consider, and he said, well, that's negative thinking.
Maybe.
It is negative thinking.
I mean, I guess.
I would call it actually understanding that routers put off certain frequencies which actually make the water in your tissues less coherent.
And that is what we call sickness.
And so you might want to not do that.
So that's why, I don't know whether that's, that's probably not what you mean by negative and positive, but... Oh, it's just thought patterns, things of that nature, that's all.
Because again, your experience ultimately starts and ends with your belief system.
Yes.
How you think.
How you think.
So, and that comes from something that I've heard quite a bit and also comes from Dr. Wayne Dyer.
And he actually gave an example in one of his talks about his grandmother and Alzheimer's.
She absolutely refused to die of Alzheimer's and she died a natural, normal death.
Now, I don't know the prelude to that of how she lived her life or how she ate, where she lived, the air that she breathed.
I don't know.
But Alzheimer's in his family, had occurred a few times, especially if genetics is the
path to...
There is no genetic diseases.
Right, which is the point that you made earlier, that yeah, there is no genetic disease,
it just doesn't exist.
No, because we have all the sequences there are in the world, you can prove that,
and we make what we need based on the integrity of the water in our tissues.
And you can also prove that. So there can't be a genetic disease,
because that means you have a defect in the gene.
And the fact of the matter is the genes are very malleable.
And what's happening is you're pushing expression towards a fixed end, which may not be in your best interest.
And, you know, I started realizing this even in medical school, that the most distinctive genetic disease ever that, you know, that all doctors learn about is sickle cell anemia, right?
And it was very interesting because I've also learned a little bit more of it.
So the theory is these Africans have this defective gene and it causes the red blood cells to sickle.
And the reason they have it is because it's adaptive against malaria, right?
Everybody knows that.
It's high school biology.
So there I am in medical school and a guy comes in, 23, And he has his first in his life sickle cell crisis, meaning his joints are all swollen, etc.
So, so, you know, we did what we did.
And I asked him, so what happened?
He said, I don't know, I was fine for 23 years.
And then I just got this, you know, my joints got swollen.
So I asked the head doctor, I said, how come he if he has this genetic disease, which is always there?
How come he was fine for 23 years?
You know what he said?
He said, well, the disease got unmasked.
So of course, being the smart Alec that I am, I said, well, maybe he should wear a mask.
What the hell does that mean?
Right.
So he should wear, I have a mask right here.
So this is Zorro mask.
Yeah.
And then I found out, here's another interesting part of that story.
So it's supposedly to prevent malaria, which is transmitted by mosquitoes who You know, if you're infected, they suck out your blood and they transfer the bacteria to another person, right?
That's how it goes.
So Walter Reed, you know, the famous Walter Reed, who was a big germ theory guy, goes down to, I think, Panama or Ecuador, because he heard that the soldiers there were getting sick with malaria.
So he goes there, almost nobody is getting sick with malaria.
And so then he says, yeah, it must be the mosquito.
So he starts spraying everything with arsenic, and then everybody starts getting malaria.
So then he wants to prove that it's transmitted by mosquitoes.
So he takes one of the soldiers with malaria, sticks his arm in a cage, right, with a bunch of mosquitoes, right?
So he can't take his arm out.
So he puts his arm in there, and the mosquitoes poke around, but they won't bite him.
Uh, and you know why the mosquitoes won't bite him?
Because they know he's sick.
Yeah, because they read the contagion myth and they know this guy's poisoned.
And we're not, we're not taking this guy's blood because there's something bad in him.
Just like my grandfather used to drink about a liter of vodka every day.
And he would, when the mosquitoes were out, he would hold his arm out and the mosquitoes couldn't bite him because apparently they don't like vodka.
Wow.
All right.
So is that an indicator then for people who are healthy versus sick of what bugs may do, bite or not bite?
Yeah, maybe.
But mosquitoes, they're too smart to bite somebody who's got arsenic poisoning because they might get sick.
So they won't do it.
And if they can't bite somebody or won't with malaria, how is it possible that they transmit the disease?
They only bite people who don't have malaria.
That's hilarious.
The point is, if anybody bothers to do science instead of just making up theories, like, we know it must be this bacteria, you know, if you isolate the bacteria, you don't make anybody sick.
They did that.
And so if that's true, then why are they have sickle cell to protect them against that?
And it turns out, I don't exactly know why they have sickle cell, but something must have happened to this guy when he was 23.
And it's not because he stopped wearing a mask, because he didn't wear a mask before.
So it couldn't be that it was unmasked.
That's just ridiculous.
But that's what we say.
So, are we saying because, and now that you've actually gone back and you've redefined that we don't have an immune system, we really need a protective system of our tissues, that there's no need to worry about an alternative?
I mean, people can get sick, right?
I never said people can't get sick.
I mean, I can give you pretty dire estimates of what's going to happen if we keep Putting glyphosate in the air and we keep wearing masks and we keep starving people and impoverishing people.
And if we roll out millimeter waves on the whole world, I mean, you can get a lot of people sick and I mean a lot.
And so, you know, but if you see it as that, this is starved, poisoning and delusional.
That's what the problem is.
You first thing is stop poisoning yourself.
It's not like rocket science.
If the reason you're getting sick is because you're eating glyphosate and breathing in cyanide, stop breathing in cyanide.
But that may not be easy for a single person because they spray it in the air and etc.
So then you have to learn how to protect yourself.
And that's a lot of the things we wrote about in the book.
So let me dive into this then.
So I know you're a fan of making sure that we turn off or we get away from Wi-Fi signals and EMF radiation, etc.
If you can, from 2G, when the original cell phones were introduced out to 5G, what is the difference in the millimeter bandwidths between all those different technologies?
And I don't want to go down a technology rabbit hole here, but real high level.
Yeah, I mean, I'm no expert in this.
All I know is that There's two principles which I do know.
One is that if you look at the electromagnetic spectrum of the Earth, or the Sun, or the planets, or humans, or dogs, or birds, or anything, it's A. non-pulse, and B. it's not a single frequency.
Right?
It's just a lot of different frequency that are, you know, they're all over the place and there's no pulsation.
So that's how human beings essentially adapted and evolved.
This is the energy of life.
Now you come into that and for understandable reasons you want a pulsed single frequency because that's how a radio works.
You can't tune your radio to any electromagnetic frequency because you won't get anything.
You turn it to a pulse 98.6, right?
And then you hear the music.
It's not coming from inside the radio like we think.
It's coming from the world.
And that's how it works.
And we have never been exposed as biological entities to pulsed single frequency waves.
Now, that one, when it started, was kind of a shock and people got sick, but then we adapt to it
because of, quote, viruses.
They send out signals saying, here's the way to adapt.
But then you can't run, you know, having everybody's bank account on a digital account
on a 98.6 frequency, right?
Because there's not enough bandwidth for that.
And you can't download, you know, videos and all that.
So you start making stronger and stronger pulsed single frequencies or a few frequencies.
And they get stronger and stronger so that you can have a trillion devices
attached to this one sort of, you know, group of frequencies.
That's called 5G.
And so if you're going to run the entire world on this frequency, you better have a lot of bandwidth.
Because if you're going to run all the airplanes and all the buses and all the devices and all the cell phones and all the Bank accounts and all the mortgages and all the businesses on this, these single frequencies or this group of frequencies better be pretty strong, right?
And the stronger, the more dangerous.
I mean, this is obvious.
And so you get these very specific toxic effects.
So, I mean, there's a lot of things you could say, but for me, you know, there's, I don't have any devices, and I wouldn't even use a computer, except I guess you could say I sort of have to, but for temporarily, I use a wired computer only.
Now, are you wiring your computer directly to your router or your home network so you can get access?
Okay.
No, no wireless devices.
And then I do all kinds of things to mitigate the sort of ambient wireless frequencies
that there's nothing I can do about.
Yeah, I would like to know about that.
I mean, you know, I'm in a position where people have sent me 20 different things.
Like this one prevents, you know, a biological damage from wireless exposure.
And this way to improve your water, like I would never drink water out of a plastic bottle
Like you just did. Never.
Because the plastic leaches plastics into the water.
Water dissolves anything.
And now you are a water-based gel receiver.
And the better, the more integrity your water is, the more resistant you are to having it be denatured and scrambled and therefore diseased by Wireless devices.
So I just told my daughter by the way that I said, hey, we're getting a home filtration system because she took water from the tap.
I said, please don't drink that drink it from the big bottle.
Yeah, and so she goes really I said, yeah, we need to get it right.
So there's that there's biogeometry which essentially transmutes the wireless signal.
So, you know, I wear, you know, like biogeometries and the problem is There is research and there's evidence that these things work, but not as much for me to say, everybody should go out and get such and such.
Yeah.
Because I don't want to be wrong about this.
Now, I use things because I'm trying to understand with myself and my friends and family, can I see an effect?
But that's different than saying, I know, because I don't know yet.
And I've got a lot of people trying to get me to say I do know that their device or their program works, and I don't know yet.
I have a friend who is also a past guest in the show, and her name is Kristen Camela.
She runs a facility called Biohackers, and for the first time I saw this unit, and it was called a Quantum Scaler.
Yeah.
And they have something very similar to what you just showed me in the biogeometry, and I did my little research on it as much as I could understand it, but I guess there is radiation elements built in to help absorb into the pendant versus into the tissue.
Yeah.
And the problem is all these people have bought into the sort of cellular theory of disease, and they talk about immune systems and all, and they do all their experiments because they're easier and cheaper on basically cells growing in tissue culture.
I don't pay any attention to any experiment on any cell growing in any culture.
Because once you take anything out of the biological system, it becomes irrelevant.
It's essentially what Goethe said, you know, a couple hundred years ago.
The time when Western science went wrong was, we wanted to know about frogs, right?
How frogs work, what makes up frogs, how to, you know, how to take care of frogs.
So you know what the first thing we did was?
Boil the frog.
Kill the frog, right?
Right?
Yeah.
So then we chop up the frog in little pieces.
And he said, there's nothing to learn.
The frog is dead.
And I can tell you one thing I know for sure is it did not help that frog.
Because that frog is dead.
And now there's millions of frogs dead.
from experimental research.
And all we have is a situation now where the frogs are basically at risk of going extinct.
Right.
So it didn't work.
And, you know, only crazy people would keep doing the same thing.
Like we don't know how a frog works.
The only way to know that is to make a actual connection with living frogs and see what they do and what helps them or doesn't help them.
Then you start to understand the frog.
So anybody who does research on, I take your liver, I take a piece of it out, I put it in a culture, I see what happens.
It's not part of a living system.
The whole experiment is irrelevant.
That's how we do medicine these days.
We say this cancer drug works because we grew this cancer cell line and then it killed the cancer cell.
And so now it's a good medicine.
I mean, that's, there's so many abstractions and inconsistencies and uncontrolled aspects of that, that it's basically pure nonsense.
I want to go back a little bit to the viruses.
So who came up with a great idea of vaccines and understanding what you just said about vaccines, excuse me, about viruses and bacteria?
Why do we say in the medical community that they're proven effective?
Because we don't understand science or how to do it.
And there's no evidence that they are effective in any way.
And all you have to do is look at the published research to show there is no evidence that any vaccine has ever solved any healthcare problem.
I mean, it came about originally through Jenner and then Pasteur did his famous anthrax experiment where, you know, Pasteur was dedicated to the idea that germs cause disease.
He became famous and rich.
And the main thing was about anthrax.
That was his main case.
But he also wrote a personal diary, which he said never to be published.
But one of his grandsons, I think, hated him.
So he published it anyways.
So here's how vaccines got started.
So they had a big problem with anthrax, which was killing the sheep.
So Pasteur isolates the anthrax bacteria because some of the sheep who were dying of this disease had the bacteria, not all.
He also found that some of the sheep who were fine also had the bacteria, but he forgot about that.
So he takes the bacteria, purifies it, grows it in culture, gives it to a bunch of sheep, none of them got sick. Then
he realized that he could make virulent anthrax. And what he did was he basically mixed the anthrax
culture with arsenic and carbolic acid, two poisons. And then this virulent anthrax killed the
sheep. Now, you can't say, obviously, whether it was the anthrax, which he knew didn't kill the
sheep, or the arsenic, which he knew did kill the sheep.
And they were also dipping the sheep in arsenic as a sort of tick bite dip at that time.
So then he does a vaccine experiment.
He takes 150 sheep, 75 of them, half of them, he gives this vaccine for anthrax.
The other 75 he doesn't.
of them he gives his vaccine for anthrax, the other 75 he doesn't. And then he gives,
he gives, exposes all 150 to anthrax. The 75 unvaccinated all die.
The 75 vaccinated none died.
That became the start of the modern vaccine program.
Now, it's interesting because you never find those kind of numbers in real experiments, except it turns out he gave the unvaccinated ones the virulent anthrax and he gave the vaccinated ones the normal anthrax.
And he knew that if you give the normal anthrax, nothing would happen.
He already knew that.
And he knew that if he gave them the arsenic anthrax, you would kill the sheep.
And he didn't tell anybody this, and he wrote it in his diary.
And then he sold a million dollars worth of anthrax vaccine, which got him in trouble because it never worked.
And that really is the prototype for how to do a vaccine experiment.
That's just disgusting right there.
I mean, I mean, you know, somebody said, I was interviewing somebody the other day who has done research into the fraud called psychopharmaceutical drugs like Prozac and all that.
And she made a very interesting comment, which is, You know, we all get mad at pharmaceutical companies, but at least in this country, their charter is to make money.
Oh, absolutely.
Yes.
Right.
That's their legal.
And you might say, I don't know if it's moral duty, but that's their duty.
Now, if they can do an experiment that convinces people that Everybody should buy for a hundred billion dollars their stuff.
Why not?
That's their job.
Right.
It's not their job to blow the whistle on themselves.
Now we could say, well, they should be good people and all that, and maybe that's true, but it's our job.
Now you could say it's the government job, but the government is corrupt.
It's like two Two different crime families that are competing to, you know, who gets to be the top crime family.
So I'm going to borrow that one.
That's a great statement right there.
So anybody who believes that is just, you know, a sucker.
So you have to, you know, do your own looking into it, realize, and actually read the studies because they won't do it for you.
Yeah.
So let me go into the virus one more time.
I don't want to camp out there.
There's a lot more I want to talk about.
And this is again from another audience member.
Although I have a very strong understanding of the issues around a vaccine, a proposed vaccine for COVID-19, they would like for you to explain the toxic soup that this vaccine can or could or will create in the short and long term.
I mean, first of all, the Pfizer and the Moderna are not vaccines.
They are called vaccines because then they become under the rubric of things that you don't get liability for, whereas it's called a drug.
And the reason I say that is because the common understanding of a vaccine is a medical intervention to to make you immune to a certain viral or bacterial disease, and that will prevent transmission of that viral or bacterial disease to others.
That's the common definition, or what most people would think of.
Now, if you say it, so in other words, if you're going to study it, you should study its effect on a viral or bacterial infection, right?
And you should study whether that prevents transmission.
If anybody bothers to read the study of the Moderna or the Pfizer vaccine, not only have they not been shown to prevent any viral infection or prevent the transmission of any viral infection, they were designed so that they didn't even study Any effect on viral transmission or infection or transmission?
Let me say that again.
Wow.
In order to know whether it prevents a viral infection, I mean, this sounds obvious, you have to study its effect on viral, you know, infection.
And in order to know whether it prevents transmission, you have to study its effect on transmission.
They say, quite clearly, we did not do any studies based on whether it has any effect on a viral disease or any effect on transmission.
What they studied was symptom reduction.
In other words, we picked a day, like day 14, and we said, how many people have these symptoms?
Fever, myalgia, you know, a bunch of things.
That we associate with COVID-19.
But it could be that you could have the flu or poisoning or something else.
But so they assess how many people vaccinated or unvaccinated had these symptoms on day 14.
And they were more in the unvaccinated than the vaccinated.
So then they said it's effective.
They didn't assess whether it had any effect on Immune system, COVID, or coronavirus, or transmission.
They didn't test for that.
Now, interestingly, if you add in the number of side effects from the vaccine, which are identical to the symptoms that they were following.
In other words, they said, who has less fever and muscle aches on day 14?
Right?
That's 100 versus 5.
What are the side effects?
Fever, muscle aches, headaches.
Right?
All through all the days.
And it turns out approximately in that group, 400 of the vaccinated had all these symptoms.
But in another study, 67% of the people who had the vaccine had the exact same symptoms, which they were calling COVID-19.
But they weren't on day 14, because they went away by day 14.
So they had less symptoms on day 14.
And this may be hard for people to follow, but all you have to realize is this was a symptom reducing on a certain day drug protocol, which they put in under a vaccine so that they would not have liability.
Because if it's a drug, if they said, we're going to test the drug to see if you'll get less symptoms on day 14, people would say, that's ridiculous.
We don't want that.
And then they would be liable if there was damages.
And, you know, somewhere around 60 to 70% of the people had the similar, if not identical, side effects as the symptoms they were studying.
Are we saying that as they're getting better, they're getting better on their own immunity, their own systems?
As these people get past these illnesses?
You know, the way they design this is extremely clever.
So if I was to say, Have you ever had the you know, like a flu-like thing and been achy and fever and pains?
Mm-hmm now how many times and so it usually lasts two weeks or less, right?
Yeah, how many times in your life?
Have you then immediately gotten sick again?
Yeah, I I don't remember right maybe next year or six months later or three years later So here's how you design a trial to show that you have less people sick on day 14.
You give them something that gives them the same symptoms on day one, and then they get quote sick for a week or so.
And then like most of us, you get better, and then you're not sick for a little while.
So you'll get less sick on day 14 compared to if you just let people do nothing.
Some will get sick on day seven, some on day 14, or whatever.
And then you get this slight difference in the amount of people sick on day 14, because you made them sick on day 10.
And then they, like you, say, well, I didn't get sick this next day, you know, because I was already sick last week.
Right.
And you think, this is a brilliant strategy.
In other words, the trial couldn't fail.
Because if you design a trial like that, and not only that, but people don't understand what's called risk reduction.
So where do they get 94% effectiveness?
Let me go through this with you for a minute.
If you have a drug that prevents heart attacks, right?
And you take a million people, million people you give the drug, a million people you don't give the drug, right?
It's nil.
proper controls everything.
And you wait a year.
The end of the year, two of the people you didn't give the drug to out of a million
had a heart attack.
The people you did give the drug to, one out of a million had a heart attack.
What is the benefit of that drug?
It's nil, nothing.
It's one out of a million, which is 0.0001 versus 0.0002.
I'm not sure I got the zeros right.
You know what they would report?
33% reduction.
You know where they got the number from?
There's a total of 3 people in this whole 2 million who got heart attacks.
2 of the 3, which is 66%, didn't take the drug.
1 of the 3 who did take the drug got a heart attack.
That's 33%.
The benefit of taking the drug is 33%.
Now, let me finish this.
That's how they got the numbers.
90 plus 5 is 95.
90 is 94% of 95.
That's how they got a 94% reduction, when the real number is 0.57% reduction.
Now, here's where it gets really interesting.
Let's say 10 out of the people who got the drug, right?
10 out of a million had a side effect, like they couldn't see.
And zero in the vaccinated.
I mean in the not drug.
Right?
So what's the risk of taking the drug?
They would say it's nothing.
It's 0.0001 versus 0.001.
Right.
So that one they do in real numbers.
And the benefit they do in this phony numbers called risk reduction.
And that's fraud.
And they report every single drug trial in that kind of nonsense.
And then the media picks up on that and they're just an ally to that.
They say 94%.
94%.
And I know the exact numbers because I know that 90 out of 15,000 in the Moderna trial, I think it was the Moderna or Pfizer, got symptoms.
That's 0.6%.
And that's the unvaccinated.
In the vaccinated, on day 14, 5 out of 15,000 got symptoms.
That's 0.03%.
The difference is 0.57%.
Now in the side effects, it was 400 in one thing they did.
got symptoms, that's 0.03%.
The difference is 0.57%.
Now, in the side effects, it was 400 in one thing they did.
It depends which number you look at.
400 out of 15,000 versus almost zero out of 15,000.
And they report that as an insignificant 2%.
I mean... Jeez, my gosh.
This is unreal.
I must say, I give them credit.
Because if it weren't for certain people explaining, like, you probably didn't know this.
No, I thought the numbers were the numbers because again, I was brought up in my healthcare career that the WHO, the CDC, the FDA, the NIH, all of them, that they're credible resources and they're doing the best.
And I don't want to give the date of how soon ago I learned that that's not the case, but by all means, I mean, they're, they're lying and it's a great, it's probably the best marketing job that I've ever seen.
The thing is, I want to emphasize, it's not actually lying.
Because 1 plus 2, it is 66% of 3.
It's deceit.
It's absolutely deceit.
Right.
The word that I would use, it's not biologically relevant.
Nobody wants to know that 1 plus 2 of the 3 million people Well, it wasn't at Moderna.
heart attacks if they take a drug that might kill them.
That's not what any human being actually is interested in.
They would say, you mean only one person out of a million if I don't take this drug will
have a heart attack?
I'm not taking it.
Well, wasn't it Moderna, one of the pharmaceutical companies, they reported that there were six
deaths already in four cases of Bell's palsy in relationship to this COVID-19 vaccine.
Yeah, but then they'll say it's six out of 20,000.
That's 0.01%.
Don't worry about it.
But if six got who, you know, unvaccinated, got sick in some way, they'll say that's a 600% increase.
You better watch out.
Yeah.
Let me ask you about that.
So there was also something on the, I don't know if this is valid or true, but the COVID-19 virus itself had already mutated 30 plus times.
That's total nonsense.
Because there is no, there is no coronavirus that has ever been isolated or proven.
So how could it have mutated?
Unicorns don't mutate into, into Secondary imaginary unicorns.
And so, how do you explain this, that there's now approximately 6,000 different genetic variations of this virus?
It's simple.
If everybody is exposed to a slightly different level of poison... We're going to consider this poisoning the wavelength, the five millimeter wavelength.
Or glyphosate, or aluminum, or there's lots of poisons.
So let's say this guy has three parts aluminum, one part glyphosate, four parts millimeter waves.
The next guy, I don't remember the numbers, but two parts, two parts, and six parts.
They will have slightly different genetic deterioration because of their toxic insult.
So do you use heavy metals to reduce the metals in your bloodstream?
So the toxic insult degrades your DNA.
That gets packaged up in what are inappropriately called viruses.
Now everyone's different because whatever the insult was, was different that provoked this.
And instead of saying this 6,000 variations mean that there's 6,000 different ways people got poisoned, you know, all little different variations on a theme.
They say these are mutating viruses.
That's ridiculous.
They're just, you know, if I hit you on the head, you'll get a big bump.
And if I hit the next guy in the head, you get a slightly bigger bump.
Those are not genetic variations of bumps.
Those are because I hit you a little harder than the next guy.
So earlier on in a different podcast, I saw that you identified four ways that people get sick.
Okay, so injuries, starvation, being poisoned, and you used emotional toxicity,
which in the, you said number four was delusion.
So maybe it's five.
But the way you just described the insult... Four and five are... They're the same, right?
You're delusional and therefore emotionally confused.
Yeah, that's a nice tie-in.
So with that insult to the cell, could that also be considered an injury or is that still poisoning?
Yeah, I mean, whatever, right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Cause I know, which means then, I mean, we're under injury all the time then, which means our bodies is always in fight or flight constantly.
That's why we always make exosomes to try to detoxify and protect ourselves.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So when we first spoke, I want to segue a little bit.
That's why there's trillions of viruses.
They're not viruses at all.
They're ways your body is trying to adapt to like what the F is going on out here.
Right.
I thought I was supposed to just sort of play around in the woods and eat good food and have, you know, laugh with my friends.
And I have to like, you know, detoxify night and day.
Like this isn't right.
Right.
So is there an exhaustion period there that we have to work?
Give up your body.
Can't deal with it anymore.
And then you get cancer and die.
Okay.
It's this is not that complicated.
Yeah.
So if you don't want to have that happen, then don't poison yourself.
Unfortunately, that's harder now than it used to be.
Yeah.
Oh, it's, it's, it's extremely hard.
All right.
So let me go into this one.
So when we first spoke, uh, when we have a pre-discussion, we talked about, I talked about the heart and the cosmos, your other book.
1920s, no one got heart disease.
Everything was great.
Everything was people eating fat, lard, meat, carnivore diet, whatever diet people wanted to follow.
They were not getting sick.
Very, very few if they were, right?
Then there was an introduction of processed foods.
I'm going to leave it there, processed foods, because it could be anything.
It could be rancid vegetable oils, bad types of seeds, And you had an astounding comment, which I just, it literally almost knocked me off my chair.
But you came out and said, if you have to read a label, you're reading the wrong stuff.
Right.
Meaning just stick with the fruits.
The vegetation, the meat, and have a nice day.
So, going into heart disease, and we talked about stents a little bit, how stents are ineffective at all, and there was a blind study where they had put, I forget the participation number, but it was 50, let's say 50 people had a stent put in, and then 50 had a placebo put in, but 80% on both groups reported that there was no change, something to that nature.
Can you talk to us about heart disease a little bit and what's really happening and what is heart disease for that matter?
I mean, like, you know, it's easily proven that, you know, traditional people didn't have heart disease and none of them were vegans and none of them were vegetarians.
They ate whatever they had and animals and fat and everything.
And then we, a lot of things happened, you know, bad food and EMS and toxic cultures and all kinds of stuff.
And then people start dying of heart disease.
And they came out with this ridiculous theory that it's because of blocked arteries, which they didn't, a lot of cardiologists didn't agree with.
And, you know, you can, I mean, I wrote a whole book, Human Heart, Cosmic Heart on Disproving the blocked artery theory.
And there's a website called heartattacknew.com.
But you know, one of the reasons I got into this was I would see people as a doctor and they would, you know, typical story, guy with chest pain walking up Mount Tam or someplace.
And his wife says, you got to go to the cardiologist.
So he goes to the cardiologist.
He says, Oh, you might have heart attack.
Does an angiogram.
95% blockage of one of his arteries, right?
I saw a hundred people like that.
Cardiologist goes like this and says, if that artery blocks anymore, you're going to die of a heart attack.
And I thought to myself, okay, we're told that all the blood to your heart goes through these three arteries.
And one of your arteries has only 5% blood flow, right?
95% block.
How in the hell did you walk up Mount Tam?
And you mean to tell me if it blocks from 5% to 2% you're going to die?
Is it 5% and 2% is any different at all?
This is nonsense.
And then I thought, okay, that we're told that there's something in the blood that's blocking up your arteries, like cholesterol or fat or inflammation.
And then, you know, if I asked you, do you think that the Arteries in your heart are the same as the artery to your leg and spleen and liver.
Of course they are.
And do you think the blood going through the heart arteries is the same blood as going through the spleen and liver and leg?
100%.
Okay, so if there's something in the blood blocking the arteries, it must block the arteries in the spleen and liver and leg.
Because same blood, same arteries.
How many people do you know had a spleen attack?
Absolutely nobody.
How about a leg attack?
No one.
How about a liver attack?
Outside of someone having a transplant, you hear of nothing.
That's not an attack.
That's a sick liver.
Right.
I've asked probably a hundred thousand people in talks and everything.
Not one person knows anybody who had a spleen attack.
Jeez.
How many people do you know had a heart attack?
A lot.
Countless, yeah.
Dick Cheney, Bill Clinton, you know.
Leading cause of, well, it's the leading cause of cardiovascular disease in this country.
Right.
How come?
Same artery, same blood.
Doesn't make any sense.
My official answer to that, I think it's emotional distress.
Right.
There's something different about the heart than the spleen.
And maybe it's the heart You know, processes, emotions, I don't know, but it's and maybe there's a different relationship in the heart and emotions than the spleen and emotion.
All I know is that it's not artery related because those are the same.
The blood is the same.
There's no point lowering stuff in the blood.
There is something different about the heart than there is the spleen.
And that's what I got into in the book.
There's a whole different energetic pattern of the heart.
And once that's disturbed, and right, it could be emotions, it could be toxins, it could be EMF exposure, it could be bad food, it could be a lot of things.
We don't have to just say, it's emotions, that's it, nothing else matters.
Because I can guarantee you if you suck on Crisco all day, that's not good for you.
Put into a list, so in toxicity, EMF, try to reduce it.
I did want to ask you about what are your thoughts on the quantum scaler for that?
Do you think that's effective?
ISARA machine?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I can't say.
And I would also say the idea of try to reduce it, that's useless.
You either reduce it or you don't.
You don't try to do anything.
Yeah, well, anybody says I'm going to try to be better, you always know that it's not a chance.
Oh, the word try is like the exoskeleton for a mouse being able to get out of a slim, narrow opening of a door.
Yeah, I always tell my wife, I'll try to be nice.
She knows I'm just, there's no way.
Yeah, I get you.
I understand.
So, reducing EMF.
So, I know Ben Greenfield, he has a kill switch at night, shutting off all the Wi-Fi in his house.
So, is that feasible for everybody?
No, but maybe you can just put a timer.
Whatever.
You got to just figure this out, because the only thing that's going to happen to you if you don't figure it out is not good.
If you have to read labels, don't eat it.
Don't eat food that has labels.
And the last one, what would you say would the last one be here?
Start thinking.
Start thinking.
Emotional intelligence for sure?
That wouldn't be a bad idea either.
Probably.
Dr. Collin, if you could, if you don't mind, tell us exactly where we can find you again.
And I know there's other products on your website, things like that.
The stage is yours.
It's just DrTomCowan.com.
T-O-M-C-O-W-A-N.com.
Yeah, and we'll make sure all the links and things are there as well.
I have two final questions for you before you go.
We always ask everyone, you are an astounding brain.
There's so much knowledge in that head.
What do you read?
How do you know it's the head?
Well, you know something?
Because that's what I was told, so I don't know.
Yeah, you don't know.
How about spirit?
Who knows?
Right.
But what do you, where do you focus all your attention for your learning?
I just, I just wait and try to find people and things that, that I seem to be drawn to and go from there.
All right.
Awesome.
And then the final word is yours.
You can leave the audience with whatever words you want to leave them with.
Thanks for listening.
Love it.
Perfect.
Dr. Cowan, I appreciate your time.
Thank you, sir.
Take care.
Thank you, Thomas.
See you now.
Bye.
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