Jimmy Dore Show - 20210128_TJDS_20210127_Podcast

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Jan. 28, 2021 - Jimmy Dore Show

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20210128_TJDS_20210127_Podcast

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	Get ready for an outstanding entertainment program.
	The Jimmy Dore Show.
	Wow, Harrison Ford is calling me.
	Hello, Harrison.
	Before we continue, I just have a couple of questions.
	Okay, sure.
	For example, what day is this?
	It's Wednesday, Harrison.
	Good answer.
	Next question.
	What month is this?
	Where am I and why?
	Why are you asking that, Harrison?
	Because people are acting all different and stuff, and I demand to know why.
	What do you mean?
	You probably saw it in all the papers yesterday.
	My wife, Callista.
	Yeah, that's her name.
	All right, just making sure.
	Well, the two of us were spotted stocking up on groceries in Santa Monica.
	I kept it casual as usual with my light gray button-down dress shirt tucked into a pair of dark blue jeans.
	And I wore a mask.
	Well, I'm glad you're setting an example by wearing a mask in public to protect yourself and others from COVID-19.
	Yeah, thanks.
	What's COVID-19 again?
	I hope you weren't driving.
	Of course, I wasn't driving.
	I crash-landed my 1929 to Avalon two-seat fabric-covered bush plane in a damn parking lot.
	That sounds very dangerous, Harrison.
	Nobody knows to his Trader Joe's.
	Question for you.
	Alec Guinness, you know the guy?
	The one who played Obi-Wanton Kimo Sabe and that Star Wars thing I did a few years ago?
	Yeah, of course.
	The great British actor, yeah.
	Wow, he was British.
	I always thought he was just constipated.
	Anyway, I was reading a thing and a thing, and he wrote a letter to someone he knew and called me ranging and languid.
	Do I ever seem sluggish or dull to you?
	No, no, of course not, buddy.
	Lackadaisical or listless.
	No, no.
	What about spiritless or lacking energy and enthusiasm?
	Certainly not, pal.
	Depressed, spiritless, sleepy, lacking interest in things.
	Nope.
	How about sluggish or dull?
	You already asked me that, Harrison.
	If I weren't so laid back, I'd beat the crap out of that Guinness guy.
	Well, he died 20 years ago.
	And he calls me languid.
	Pilot the tower.
	Request permission to pick up a jar of Traders Yotos.
	Basta Marinara.
	Over.
	Get the hell out of my parking space.
	Establishment media.
	Sets all inspiring.
	So good luck.
	Bullshit we can't afford.
	Life fomenting this.
	Watch and see as the jet golf.
	The median speeds and jumps the medium.
	And hits them head on.
	It's the Jimmy Tore Show.
	Two.
	One.
	You're live, JD.
	Hi, everybody.
	Welcome to the Jimmy Door Show.
	I'm just making sure.
	I really care.
	I really care about my hair.
	I was just reading a thing about Phil Spector and what a maniac he was.
	He died in prison.
	I didn't know that.
	He had had a COVID in prison.
	Who knew that?
	We got a lot.
	Oh, we got a lot of stuff coming up on today's show.
	I am very happy to speak with our next guest.
	He's a native Chicagoan, just like myself.
	He's a musician who has worked with B.B. King, Chuck Berry, and Jerry Lee Lewis, among many others.
	He's also been on a mission to have conversations, create relationships, and convert members out of the Ku Klux Klan.
	I'm excited to talk to him about his journey and learn from his experience.
	He is the one and only Daryl Davis.
	Daryl, thank you so much for coming on today.
	Thank you for having me, Jimmy.
	Really appreciate it.
	So now, I'm going to show you, there's a famous TED Talk that you did, and I'm just going to play a few clips so people get a gist of what's happening because you tell a great story of how you turned the grand wizard of the KKK away from the KKK.
	So here's how it starts.
	Well, this is a police officer's uniform, a Baltimore City police officer in particular named Robert White.
	He gave me this uniform when he and I became the very best of friends.
	But, you know, I first met Robert.
	Well, I first heard about Robert White when I was a teenager.
	And then I later met him.
	I met him just a month after he got out of prison.
	He was in prison serving a sentence for assault with intent to murder two black men with a shotgun and another sentence conspiring to bomb a synagogue in Baltimore.
	Now, I am a professional musician.
	I tour all over this country and around the world playing music.
	So how do I end up with a policeman's uniform?
	He worked for the police department by day, but he also had another job which required a different kind of uniform.
	Thank you.
	He was the grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan for the state of Maryland.
	This is his robe.
	This is what he wore when he conspired to bomb the synagogue and when he made plans to kill two black men with a shotgun.
	So.
	That's fascinating.
	What made you decide to reach out to someone like that?
	Because I want to understand the mindset.
	How do people arrive at that mindset that they're going to carry out these things?
	Is it a personal hatred?
	Is it their patriotic duty?
	Where does this come from?
	Because I know you're not born with that ideology.
	It's learned.
	So if it's learned, it could be unlearned.
	But I need to know the source.
	Where is it acquired from?
	So that's more a curiosity for me.
	So basically that.
	And you came up with this question when you were 10 years old.
	Here it is.
	So at the age of 10, I formed a question in my mind.
	That question was, how can you hate me when you don't even know me?
	And that's very powerful because you go on to explain where it comes from.
	And this is pretty interesting.
	The story of one another.
	Thus, ignorance breeds fear.
	We fear those things we do not understand.
	If we do not keep that fear in check, that fear in turn will breed hatred.
	Because we hate those things that frighten us.
	If we do not keep that hatred in check, that hatred in turn will breed hatred.
	breed destruction we want to destroy those things that we hate why because they cause us to be afraid But guess what?
	They may have been harmless and we were just ignorant.
	We saw the whole chain almost unravel to completion had the bodyguard drawn his gun and shot namely me or my secretary because it's his job to protect his boss and protect himself.
	Or had I pounced and hurt one of them trying to protect myself or my secretary.
	We did see, we did see that whole chain unravel to completion three months ago in Charlottesville, Virginia, two hours from where I live.
	Because ignorance was present.
	Fear was present.
	Hatred was present.
	And destruction occurred when a white supremacist got in his car and tried to mow down people and resulted in killing one young lady named Heather Heyer.
	So we carried on with this interview.
	So I thought that was really instructive how you say it comes fear.
	Ignorance creates fear.
	Fear creates hatred.
	And then that creates violence, right?
	Yes, you know, because listen, we fear that of which we are ignorant.
	You know, and I don't use ignorant in a derogatory sense.
	I use it as being unaware, unknowledgeable about it.
	So we fear something of which we're ignorant.
	If we don't address that fear, then it can escalate because we dislike the things that frighten us.
	And that dislike then turns into hate.
	And the hate, if we don't address the hate, that will escalate and turn into anger because we're angry because something, you know, caused us to be afraid.
	And that anger then escalates into destruction.
	And that's what we see.
	So everything from the top down, destruction, hate, and fear, you know, we keep trying to address those things.
	And we're wasting our time doing that because destruction, hate, and fear are all byproducts of the nucleus.
	They are the symptoms.
	The nucleus is the foundation is ignorance.
	If we cure the ignorance, then there's nothing to fear.
	If there's nothing to fear, there's nothing to hate.
	If there's nothing to hate, there's nothing to get angry about and destroy.
	But the good thing is there is a cure for the ignorance.
	That cure is called education and exposure.
	And when we provide those things to individuals or groups or whatnot, then we have cured the ignorance and they have nothing to fear.
	That's where we should be directing our resources, not addressing the destruction and the hate and the fear, but the nucleus.
	That's beautiful.
	That's exactly right.
	It's, you know, I grew up in a racist, in a, like I was telling you before, a lot of racial tension in my neighborhood.
	How did you escape it?
	I had, there was two black kids in my grammar school.
	And I was supposed to fight them.
	I was supposed to fight them.
	And I was fighting one of them.
	And right in the middle, I just was like, I got sick to my stomach.
	I didn't know what I was doing.
	And I knew I didn't know what I was doing.
	And I still remember it.
	And this lady came out and she's like, what are you guys doing?
	And she said, you're just little kids.
	And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing.
	What am I doing?
	What is this?
	And so we became friends.
	And, you know, it was a violent neighborhood in general.
	And so that was a big change for me.
	That's what did it for me.
	I just didn't make sense.
	And then I could understand how he felt out of place in a white school, only a few black kids in it and stuff like that.
	And it just changed me.
	And yeah, that's that's I could just see.
	It's powerful, man.
	It's powerful.
	I could just see that he was just another kid.
	And that he had it worse than me.
	And I didn't, it just, I don't, I can't even explain it.
	I just was like, what am I doing?
	And that's interesting, you know, and that's very, very powerful.
	And, you know, you said it.
	You were feeling exactly what I was feeling.
	You said it just didn't make sense to me.
	And that's exactly how I felt, Jimmy, you know, when somebody threw rocks and bottles at me when I was the only black kid marching in an all-white Cub Scout parade.
	I didn't realize, you know, it was racist.
	I just thought the people who were doing this didn't like the scouts.
	I didn't realize I was the only scout getting hit until all my troop leaders came running over.
	They all were white too, and covered me with their bodies to protect me.
	And I realized, well, nobody else is getting this special protection.
	Why are they hitting me?
	And all they would do is shush me and rush me along and not answer the question.
	And when I got home, my mother and father were putting band-aids on me.
	You know, they were not at the parade.
	And they were asking me, how did I fall down and get all scraped up?
	And I told them what happened.
	You know, I didn't fall down.
	I told them, you know, people threw things at me.
	And they sat me down and explained what racism was.
	I had no clue, no clue whatsoever.
	And it made no sense to me.
	I was 10 years old, and my 10-year-old brain could not process the idea that someone who had never seen me, never spoken to me, knew absolutely nothing about me, would want to hurt me for no other reason than the color of my skin.
	It didn't make any sense to me.
	And so therefore, I didn't believe my parents because I had white friends who looked just like the people on the sidewalk who were throwing things at me.
	So I could not, you know, compute that in my brain.
	And this is 1968.
	And about a month and a half, two months later, Martin Luther King was assassinated.
	And every major city in this country, including right there, Chicago, where you are, burned to the ground, all in the name of this new word that I'd learned two months prior called racism.
	So then I realized this thing does exist, but I didn't know why it existed.
	And that's when I formed that question.
	How can you hate me when you don't even know me?
	And for the next 52 years, I've been looking for the answer.
	So I want to show it.
	This was such a big deal that 60 Minutes profiled you.
	So I just want to show this because it's very instructive of the whole what you consider to be the most important ingredient.
	So let me just Play this part.
	And this clip was shown every hour for 24 hours all over the world.
	I'm going to show it to you right now.
	And I want you to pay particular attention to what Mr. Kelly says.
	He says that even though he and I would do different things together, it did not change his views on the Klan because his views on the Klan had been cemented in his mind for years.
	Then he goes on to say how he believes in separation of the races because he finds that to be in the best interests of all races.
	But listen to what he says about respect towards the end of the clip.
	Please show the clip.
	Davis is one of the few African Americans you will ever find attending a KKK rally.
	More than attending, he is welcome.
	I got more respect for that black man than I do you white niggers.
	It's been a tough day for the Klan.
	Their Maryland rally found many local residents rejecting the message of white separatism.
	After it's over, Darryl Davis hangs around backstage with his friend, Klan Wizard Roger Kelly.
	It's not unusual for blacks and whites to be friends, but it is unusual to find a black man and a clan leader chatting pleasantly over an orange soda after a clan rally.
	The relationship started over a book Davis was writing.
	His secretary set up an interview with Roger Kelly, but didn't tell him Davis was black.
	They talked and talked some more.
	Davis learning about the Klan, Kelly learning about Davis.
	We get to know one another and we do different things.
	You know, it hasn't changed my views about the Klan, you know, because my views on the Klan's been pretty much cemented in my mind for years.
	Kelly and his clan friends go to hear Davis and his band.
	I love it.
	And Davis goes to their rallies.
	I sat on the front row and I listened to each other and speak.
	Some things I agreed with, other things I did not agree with.
	Davis thinks that his presence promotes badly needed understanding.
	Hate stems, I believe, from fear, a fear of the unknown.
	And I think this is all across the board, regardless of whether it's a Klansman or anything else.
	But he has no illusions about the Klan.
	If he did, his friend would be quick to disabuse them.
	I believe in separation of the races.
	I believe that's in the best interest of all races.
	Does he really?
	Or has friendship transcended the color barrier?
	Listen to Kelly at a clan rally.
	I'm a power out man to tell him, man, because I believe in what he stands for and he believes what I stand for.
	Sometimes we don't agree with everything, but at least he respects me to sit down and listen to him.
	And I respect him to sit down and listen to him.
	The strange relationship of a KKK wizard and his black buddy.
	In Washington, I'm Carl Rochelle.
	See you in Sunday morning.
	Respect is the key.
	Sitting down and talking, not necessarily agreeing, but respecting each other to air their points of view.
	Because of that respect and my willingness to listen and his will to listen to me, he ended up leaving the Klan, and there's his robe right there.
	I am a musician, not a psychologist or sociologist.
	If I can do that, anybody in here can do that.
	Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries.
	You will learn something and they will learn something from you.
	When two enemies are talking, they're not fighting.
	They're talking.
	It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence.
	So keep the conversation going.
	Thank you all very much.
	So that's amazing.
	And the point that you make about respect.
	And so tell me, how long did that take for him to go from not knowing you to giving you his uniform?
	Him in particular, let's see.
	About six and a half years.
	And so some happens sooner, some happens later, you know.
	And so when you and the and when you started engaging the KKK and the Grand Wizard and people like that, did people were they suspect of you?
	Some were, of course.
	I mean, black people on both sides.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Some thought, you know, I'd gone off my rocker.
	I was selling out.
	I was an Uncle Tom, an Oreo.
	I got called every name but my own, man.
	You know.
	Okay, because that's we're experiencing a lot of that right now at this show.
	So that's that's amazing.
	You know what, though?
	You know, anytime you do something that is not the norm, you will have your shared detractors.
	And I always think about Copernicus, the astronomer.
	You know, you remember Copernicus was the one.
	Yeah, he was the one who said the earth revolves around the sun.
	And earthlings being egotists, we thought we were the center of the universe.
	The sun revolves around us.
	They called him a heretic and put him in jail.
	And then later on, of course, he was proven right.
	So, you know, years ago, a couple decades ago, people were calling me these names, and some still do.
	But they were calling me all kinds of names and thinking I'm crazy and stuff.
	Now, those same people are calling me and saying, Daryl, you know those people, man.
	Tell us what's going on.
	What's going on?
	You know, help us understand.
	I'm thinking, you know, if you would listen to me 20 years ago, you'd know what the hell is going on.
	Yeah.
	Here is Black Panther Reverend Annie Chambers, and she's talking about a time in Las Vegas when they joined hands with the KKK because the governor had stopped all welfare checks to poor blacks, whites, and anybody else who was poor.
	It was a class issue.
	And here's how she describes it.
	I don't know what I told you about the story of me and the Ku Klock clans, but they just as bad off as wheels.
	And somebody shake them and say, hey, no, you ain't got a damn thing either.
	I don't need you to like me as an individual if you want to, but your ass is starving too.
	When we was in Las Vegas, was in Nirvana, rubber, the governor cut off the checks for everybody.
	So the Klansmans weren't getting no welfare checks either.
	And they were trying to figure out, and we were over there, the other group of us over there talking about what we're going to do.
	I said, why y'all ain't got them people over there?
	They said, don't know them, the clan.
	I went over there and asked me, say, when I walked in the church and whoever he was, the man standing up front, I don't know whether he was a minister or not, but he said the N-word, what you want, nigga?
	I said the same damn thing you want, a check.
	I don't need you to like me, but you ain't going to get no damn check if I don't get one.
	And along with the Ku Klux Klans, and this is, you in right now, they got it in the library.
	Me and the Grand Dragon standing hand in hand out there fighting for a check because his people was starving too.
	And see, when people understand that we have to stand up as a workers movement, see, and then, you know, I told him, I said, you may not like me.
	I don't care whether your son murmured my daughter or my daughter, Murray, your son, or my, you know, my son, Murray, your daughter.
	All I want right now is a damn welfare check.
	Let's get, we have to fight together.
	We closed down the strip.
	We closed down the casinos.
	We let the children run while we went in there and ordered food and told them to charge it to the governor.
	We had shop-ins in the store and we took and walked out with the product and told them the governor pay for it because they locked us up with too many people in jail.
	They didn't have no room.
	So that's kind of fascinating.
	I mean, that's kind of the coming together with common interest, even black people coming together with the Klan because they recognize a common interest against the government.
	Exactly.
	Go ahead.
	And we saw that same scenario back in May of last year.
	Okay.
	You know, listen, in the civil rights movement, starting, let's say, in 1955 with Rosa Parks and on through the 1960s with Dr. King, all the marches and protests and boycotts and sit-ins, et cetera.
	It's been predominantly black people, but we've always had a smattering, if you will, of white people who saw the vision and they joined in with us and marched with us.
	You know, a small amount, but important, equally so.
	The powers that be, which is a polite way of saying the white power structure, when they look at those marches back then, all they see is a sea of black people and just a few people who look like them.
	So they plug their ears, they don't listen, you know, and they shut us down.
	And so progress moves very slowly.
	But during the pandemic of our last year, people could not go to work.
	Their businesses were shut down, and they were on lockdown in their homes.
	So what did they do?
	They were like, you know, surfing the internet.
	They're watching TV.
	And what do they see?
	They see a murder happening live on their screen that was taken eight minutes and 46 seconds.
	And now we see this.
	We, as black people, see this all the time.
	But white people were seeing it for the first time, or many of them were.
	And they're like, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening.
	Oh, my goodness.
	I got to do something.
	And despite the health risk to them during this pandemic, they got up out of their homes and went into the streets and marched with us.
	And now the powers that be, looking at those marches, they're seeing almost as many white people as they're seeing black people.
	And as a result, things changed a lot quicker, a lot quicker.
	Okay.
	In the past, if, and that's a big word, if a police officer were to be charged and arrested with shooting a black person or anybody in the back or whatever, it took a long time.
	And chances are he or she would get off.
	Today, it's happening boom, boom, boom, a lot quicker as a result of blacks and whites marching together, that collective voice speaking.
	We've never seen a ripple effect like we saw last year.
	The ripple effect being like this.
	The marches in the wake of George Floyd's lynching, if you will, were directed predominantly at the police.
	But the ripple effect that happened, you got NASCAR, which was ground zero for the Confederate flag, banning the Confederate flag.
	You got the sovereign state of Mississippi removing the Confederate portion out of their state flag.
	You got food brands like Aunt Jemima's, Uncle Ben's, changing their labels.
	You got legislators passing bills to change names on buildings named after slave owners or remove Confederate general statues.
	We've never seen this kind of thing happen so fast.
	And what was the difference between the marches of yesteryear and the marches of 2020?
	The collective voice.
	We had more people from different ethnicities, white, black, Hispanic, all marching together.
	The powers that be saw that, and you cannot stop that kind of unity.
	Unity is what makes change.
	And just like the Annie Chambers and the Klan people marching together for the same common cause, that welfare check, that's how they got it.
	Unity.
	And that's actually scary to the establishment, right?
	Exactly.
	Exactly.
	Because the establishment thrives when they keep people divided and fighting amongst themselves.
	You know, your enemy, the best way to defeat them is what?
	Divide and conquer.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	So I want to show you this because I think you're the perfect guy to show this to a guy who's been able to literally turn the grand wizard of the KKK and other people like that away from the KKK.
	You have that, and you're not especially trained.
	You're just a human being.
	You're a musician.
	You're not a psychiatrist or a sociologist.
	I'm a rock and roll piano player, man.
	Here you go.
	And you reached out to Klans people to cure their ignorance of you and your ignorance of them and get rid of the fear because that's what causes hatred and hatred is what causes violence.
	So if you can get rid of the cause of that, the nucleus, as you say, which is ignorance, and how do you get, and how do you get rid of that ignorance?
	You engage, right?
	You froze on me for a second.
	Repeat that last thing.
	And so how do you get rid of that ignorance?
	You engage.
	You engage, you educate, you expose.
	Right.
	Listen, my favorite quote of all time is called the travel quote, and it's by Mark Twain.
	And Mark Twain said, travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.
	And here are our people need it sorely on these accounts.
	Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.
	That is so true.
	The more you engage with people outside of your little echo chamber, the less prejudice and bigotry you will have within yourself.
	So here was someone who's outside of my echo chamber for sure.
	And I saw this video, and this was during the inauguration of Joe Biden.
	There was a demonstration at the Michigan State Capitol, and this gentleman here with the beard who's going to talk showed up with an Antifa representative and a representative from Black Lives Matter.
	And here's what he said.
	And if you can't hear it, I'll tell you afterwards.
	It's very short, but there's a helicopter in the background.
	So it makes it hard to hear.
	But he starts off by saying Black Lives Matter, Antifa, and Boogaloo Boys are not the problem in America.
	They're the antiseptic.
	Here we go.
	So deeply incensuous with corporations that they are indistinguishable from each other.
	A government that spent six months debating whether to give their own people $600 for only 24 hours unanimously agreeing to give billions of dollars to foreign tyrannical governments and corporations.
	A government that has bombed villages overseas my entire life for my supposed safety here.
	He said they've bombed brown villages overseas my entire life for supposed safety at home.
	Okay.
	This is a call for unity.
	He said it's a call for unity.
	For all the American people that realize the true threat against us to come together.
	For every mother mourning our children that was killed by police, for every business crushed down by state lockdowns, for every broken soldier sent to fight wars that have no point.
	This is our last chance to avoid either a tyrannical civil, a tyrannical government, or a bloody and pointless civil war among American people who do not have that much against each other and have more in common than they realize.
	So he just said he's reaching out to mothers whose sons and daughters were killed by police or whose children were fight sent to fight in pointless wars that we have more in common than we realize.
	And he ends by saying this.
	And a message to the government.
	We come in peace.
	We do not intend to commit violence, but I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes and cracks in my voice.
	If you continue to oppress the American people, they will remain rational no longer.
	Thank you.
	And so I saw that, and then it reminded me of Fred Hampton when 1969, Black Panthers aligned with Confederate flag-wielding working-class whites.
	Ethnic and radical groups each created ethnic and racial groups, each created their own social services and activist networks to combat every kind of oppression.
	One was the Young Patriots Organization, the YPO, which was based in Hillbilly, Harlem, an uptown neighborhood of Chicago, populated by displaced white Southerners.
	Many YPO members flaunted racist, controversial symbols associated with Southern pride, such as the Confederate flag.
	But like blacks and Latinos, the white young patriots and their families experienced discrimination in Chicago.
	In their case, it was because they were poor and they were from the South.
	And here is Fred Hampton and the Black Panthers.
	There's the Black Panthers.
	There's the Confederate flag.
	There they are all on the same stage.
	Eventually, young patriots rejected their deeply embedded ideas of white supremacy and even dropped the Confederate flag as they realized how much they had in common with the Black Panthers and the Latino young lords.
	Despite many differences, the groups united under the umbrella of economic justice.
	And so in that spirit, I brought that guy on who gave that speech at the Michigan State.
	And I was trying to find out more about him.
	And here's what I asked him: you're anti-war, you're for peace, you're against racism, you're against police brutality.
	What would be some other big things?
	Pro-sex work, decriminalization, legalize all drugs, end all the wars, close the ICE detainment camps.
	Pretty much our core foundation is if you're not a bigoted piece of shit and you understand that both parties are the problem and you're willing to do something about it and you're willing to get out in the streets and you're willing to make your voice heard, you're welcome.
	It doesn't matter where you come from or what you do.
	In that video, it doesn't show it, but I walked in.
	The woman standing next to me is a local BLM organizer for Lansing, Michigan.
	And I walked in with the local anti-fascist organization as well.
	So you're not about hating gays and you're you don't hate the gays.
	Nope.
	Okay.
	Well, I was told that.
	Matter of fact, I'm not the most straight man myself.
	So there's a guy who, on the surface, I would say, wow, that's some kind of a white racist, crazy militia guy I want to stay away from.
	But when I talked to him, he said that stuff.
	And what would be your message to that guy?
	Well, you know, I can agree with some of the things that he's saying.
	But here is the problem with a lot of these groups.
	Boogaloo Boys, Black Lives Matter, Antifa, and other groups that have Proud Boys, for example.
	Okay.
	These are not organizations.
	These are movements.
	They're not, you know, and you have, you know, the Boogaloo Boys, let's say in Chicago.
	You've got a group of them in Springfield, another group in, you know, wherever.
	They are not chapters.
	They are factions.
	And a lot of them are not on the same page.
	Right.
	And that's the problem because you have, you know, you have Boogaloo Boys, Black Lives Matter groups that some consist of black supremacists.
	Some consist of people who are very aggressive and they're going out there tearing up the town and fighting people.
	And you got some using the same name that are sitting down with county and state legislatures and trying to get bills passed and do things the right way.
	But of course, the media, like say this gentleman here that you just showed, he's trying to do things the right way, bring unity, bring people together for the common cause of unifying and increasing the economy for people who are suffering.
	All right.
	When the media covers the Boogaloo Boys and some chapter or some faction does something negative, is out there on the street fighting people and beating them up, they don't say this particular group of Boogaloo boys, they just say the Boogaloo Boys.
	So they paint the whole movement with a negative picture.
	And that's not always the case.
	You got some groups doing good things, some groups doing bad things.
	But the media does not differentiate and say, well, the Chicago chapter or the Los Angeles chapter, they just say the Boogaloo Boys or Black Lives Matter did this, you know, and that's a problem.
	They need to come together.
	Like, I'll give you an example.
	Let's talk about Black Lives Matter, for example.
	The idea behind Black Lives Matter was co-opted from Martin Luther King.
	Martin Luther King wanted to put the national spotlight on the plight of black people on the buses in Montgomery, Alabama, right?
	Because, you know, what happened with Rosa Parks, that had been going on.
	There have been other black women who refused to give up their seat, but it only made news around Montgomery, Alabama.
	So nothing was changing.
	King decided, hey, if everybody in the country can see this, let's put Montgomery in a fishbowl.
	That might, you know, force change.
	And he was right.
	All right.
	So the people who founded Black Lives Matter, they got that idea from him and said, hey, you know, we need to put the national spotlight on the plight of black men who, for lack of a better term, are being murdered by white police officers for holding their cell phone or their wallet.
	And white men in the same situation, you know, they either go to jail or go home.
	Black men go to their graves.
	So we need the whole country to see this.
	It's a great idea.
	Excellent idea.
	But the problem was, in my opinion, again, they did not want to trademark the name Black Lives Matter.
	They did not want to organize and have a headquarters and a president who creates policy and disseminates it to all the chapters.
	They wanted it to be organic, just grow up all over the place.
	Black Lives Matter was born in 2013 following the murder of Trayvon Martin.
	And today you got about 90 different chapters all over the country.
	And like I said, a lot of them are not on the same page.
	And as a result, oftentimes, if one faction does something negatives, it reflects on the other factions that might not agree with that.
	In other words, we have too many chefs in the kitchen.
	Unlike, say, the NAACP or the Red Cross or the Boy Scouts of America, where there is one central organization, one president, policies created within the headquarters and disseminated to all the chapters around the country.
	So the Boy Scouts over in New York City have the same policy as the Boy Scouts in Los Angeles.
	That is what creates change.
	That's where we need to unify.
	These groups come together within themselves and unify and then as a unit come together with the other groups.
	Otherwise, it's just a cluster.
	You know what?
	Yeah.
	So I received a lot of bad faith attacks, the people trying to say I was supporting that guy or that I was boosting white supremacists.
	Welcome to my club.
	And I'm just all I'm saying.
	I'm going to give you a badge.
	Thank you.
	I would appreciate it.
	I'd like to.
	I'd love to wear that badge.
	But I've been, you know, I've been told my whole life by people smarter than me that economic catastrophes make people ripe for demagogues, right-wingers, and fascism.
	And so we have to get to those people first.
	And when I talked to that guy, and he said he would provide security for Black Lives Matter events.
	And then I checked into that, and that was true.
	And then all that other stuff he said that he, that, you know, he's against ICE detention centers.
	I mean, I didn't expect any of that stuff.
	And I still got pushback from the liberal establishment saying I shouldn't be talking to that guy, that somehow I'm platforming him.
	And I'm like, well, how do you talk to somebody without if without, you know, I want to bring him on my show?
	I mean, I grew up when Phil Donahue used to bring the KKK on his show all the time.
	That's right.
	And talk to them.
	And that's, that was, I was doing that in the spirit of that.
	And I was doing that in the spirit of Fred Hampton.
	And people are like, you're not supposed to do that.
	And there's, and they try to make it you afraid that you'll be tarred and feathered if you even entertain the idea of talking to somebody.
	I was told that I shouldn't flirt with libertarians.
	What would be your response to that?
	I say, no.
	You know, we have the right of freedom of assembly and we have the right to freedom of speech.
	And those people who are telling you what you should and should not do are violating your rights to do so.
	So, you know, it's our ability to communicate.
	Listen, we as a nation, the United States of America, anytime some foreign country is getting ready to have a civil war, you know, two factions in there, like say Israel, the Palestinians and the Jews, or two countries are getting ready to go to war against each other.
	What is the first thing we do?
	We get a hold of the leaders of those factions or the two countries and we set up a summit of peace talks where we bring the leaders to the peace table and we moderate this intervention so that there is a ceasefire and there's no war that's going to brew.
	We try to be peace interventionists before somebody's civil war starts or before some war between two nations start, right?
	We need to do the same thing in our own country.
	So those people who are telling you that are nothing but hypocrites.
	You know, we should be cleaning up our own backyard as well as telling other people how to conduct their lives and their countries.
	And the irony I found also in this experience for me is that the same people who were telling me I had to vote for a warmongering guy who wrote the crime bill, Joe Biden, right?
	Joe Biden who's still disparaging, as far as I'm concerned, to the black community.
	He created the pleasant prison population explosion.
	He's anti-worker and all that stuff.
	He's a warmonger.
	He's for bombing brown people all over the world.
	He was pro-Iraq war, pro-Libya, the whole deal.
	He wants to bomb in Syria.
	He just sent troops into Syria.
	first day on the job.
	So people telling me that I couldn't talk to that guy who's unemployed and is self-described libertarian boogaloo boy are telling me I had to vote for a guy who has nothing but a racist path who said he didn't want his kids to grow up in a racial jungle.
	That's Joe Biden.
	Now, I get that you wanted to vote for Joe Biden against Donald Trump, but don't do you find that like you just when you said hypocrisy, that's what made me think of that.
	Like that's really hypocritical.
	I'm supposed to vote for Joe Biden in good conscience, but I'm not supposed to talk to a fellow American who hasn't done half the damage or any damage that Joe Biden has done.
	This country is very hypocritical, but I believe, you know, that everybody makes mistakes and everybody can correct them.
	Donald Trump might be an exception.
	I believe that, you know, like I said, you know, not everybody's going to change.
	Some people will go to their graves being hateful, violent and racist.
	But the majority of the ones that I've sat down and talked to, there's an opportunity for them to change.
	And I've proven that because many of them have.
	But, you know, I think Biden has made some mistakes in the past, but I also think that he is capable of correcting them.
	And, you know, you can't change the past, but you can take where you are and change the ending.
	Okay.
	That's fantastic.
	I want everybody out there to think about, listen, our country, our society can only become one of two things.
	It can become number one, that which we sit back and watch it become, or that which we stand up and make it become.
	So I want all your listeners to ask themselves this question and they don't have to answer it right now.
	But before they go to bed tonight, come up with an answer, not for me, but for themselves.
	Do you want to sit back and see what your country becomes?
	Or do you want to stand up and make your country become what you want to see?
	And that is a personal question that only each listener can answer for themselves.
	And I've chosen to do the second option to stand up and make my country become what i want to see and it involves bringing us all together wow well that's uh very well said and i appreciate you uh i appreciate you doing that i appreciate you reaching out to people on your political opposite side and finding common ground and changing people's hearts and minds uh Through the eradication of ignorance.
	And the only way you do that is through dialogue.
	So I really appreciate your example.
	I appreciate you taking the slings and arrows and the smears that you had to take, even from your own community to do this.
	It shows me.
	That strengthens me.
	Shows a lot of character, Daryl.
	So Daryl Davis from the Daryl Davis band.
	Thank you so much for coming on.
	And we look forward to talking to you again.
	Thank you, Keynes.
	Good luck.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	Well, let's do a part two sometime.
	Let's definitely do a part two.
	Hey, you know, we no longer have an Amazon link because we're not doing that.
	We're not playing that game.
	But here's another great way you can help support the show: you become a premium member.
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	Thanks for your support.
	So guess what?
	Facebook is talking about their ban on Trump, right?
	So this is from Axios.
	All the platforms that have banned or restricted Trump so far.
	You want to see them?
	Reddit, Shopify, Shopify, Google, Facebook, Snapchat, Apple, Pinterest, Stripe, Twilio.
	I don't even know what that is.
	Amazon, AWS, Discord, never heard of it.
	TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, and Twitch.
	Now, this should give him, that should have gave him plenty of time to work on that pardon that didn't include Julian Assange.
	I guess TikTok's kind of doing this as a revenge to him.
	Is that why TikTok banned him?
	Referring, so this is from Facebook.
	This is from Facebook.
	Nick Clegg, the vice president of global affairs for Facebook.
	It sounds very, very important.
	I'm the vice president for global affairs.
	I take care of the globe and their affairs.
	It says referring former President Trump's suspension from Facebook to the oversight board.
	Today, Facebook is referring its decision to indefinitely suspend former U.S. President Donald Trump's access to his Facebook and Instagram accounts to the independent oversight board.
	What?
	They act like it was appointed by me or some or something.
	Who appointed this independent oversight board?
	People on Facebook?
	Oh, yeah, the people at Facebook did.
	Do you know what this even is, Graham?
	This independent fucking oversight board?
	I don't even know what who's on who's on there and who appoints them.
	They're independent.
	Do they come from the Atlantic Council?
	I think they're about as independent as anybody that works with the CIA and the intelligence community can possibly be.
	It just reeks of CIA.
	Independent intelligence community of guidelines.
	We've been quote-unquote fact-checked by their independent fact-checkers at Facebook.
	They all came from, they came from CNN or the military, and they were wrong.
	And they were wrong.
	They were wrong.
	And we were right.
	They said that the DNC didn't interfere in the Iowa election and they labeled our report on that fake news.
	It wasn't.
	That was, again, proven.
	It was proven that after the investigation came out, that the DNC was doing fuckery with the Iowa.
	So that's so that you're exactly right.
	So this independent oversight board, I'm going to guess, is hand-picked from the CIA or the Atlantic Council or Henry Kissinger.
	We believe our decision was necessary and right.
	We look forward to receiving the board's decision, and we hope, given the clear justification for our actions on January 7th, that it will uphold the choices that we made.
	We have taken the view that in open democracies, people have a right to hear what their politicians are seeing.
	The good, the bad, and the ugly, so that they can be held to account.
	More like the bad, the propaganda, and the not even trying to hide it.
	How about that?
	I mean, but it has never meant that politicians can say whatever they like.
	Yeah, see, we already got this covered in the United States, Facebook.
	It's called free speech laws, and you're free to follow them anytime you want.
	We've already got this covered.
	We have free speech laws.
	And if somebody's doing something illegal on Facebook, there's a thing called a law enforcement agency in the United States, and they will come in and enforce the law.
	That's who's supposed to do that.
	Not you and some unelected, independent body hand-picked by the Atlantic Council.
	Whether you believe the decision was justified or not, many people are understandably uncomfortable with the idea that tech companies have the power to ban elected leaders.
	Many argue private companies like Facebook shouldn't be making these decisions on their own.
	We agree.
	No, you don't.
	Otherwise, you would let the law enforcement agencies take care of it and it would go to a court.
	It would be better if these decisions were made according to frameworks agreed by a democratically accountable lawmakers.
	But in the absence of such laws, no, we have laws.
	They're called free speech laws.
	You don't need special laws for Facebook.
	Facebook doesn't need special laws for free speech.
	We already have them.
	But in the absence of such laws, there are decisions we cannot, so we have to do censorship because nobody written a law that says we have to do censorship.
	So we're just going to do it.
	Yeah, they didn't write laws that give you the power of censorship for fucking reason.
	There aren't laws written to let us do this.
	So we're just going to do it.
	What?
	Yeah, the legislature and the people that you elected to take care of things, they're not taking care of censorship.
	So we're just going to do it.
	They haven't written a law yet that makes a censor.
	So we're just going to go ahead and do it on our own because there isn't a law yet.
	What?
	Why do you think there isn't a law yet?
	This is why we established the oversight board.
	So you guys established it.
	So what it's not independent.
	So Facebook established an oversight board.
	So we're going to, that's like when the we're going to do a police review of the shooting.
	Turns out the cop didn't do it.
	It was the other guy's fault.
	Who said so?
	The cops.
	So that's where it starts, Graham.
	That's where it starts.
	They have an independent oversight board that they handpicked that they set up.
	They submitted it.
	They admitted they established their own oversight board.
	That's not an oversight board then.
	Go ahead, Graham.
	No, I was just going to say, I don't know why you're being so hard on a flim flam technocratic kangaroo court.
	I don't know what your problem is with that, Jimmy.
	Don't you love?
	Don't you love like that one of those Star Trek movies where the Klingons had Captain Kirk and they're just like, you're guilty.
	It was like this.
	It's like amazing.
	I mean, the thing that's so, and they act like, well, we don't know.
	We don't have any laws in the place.
	Like, okay, it's preposterous to me.
	All these laws.
	So what happened?
	Look, there are plenty of laws on the books to prosecute Trump for telling people to go to The Capitol building.
	You have plenty of laws on the books to show some of these people were working in cohort, you know, concert together.
	They had radios, they were trying to do this.
	They went there with guns.
	Okay, breaking an entry.
	There's all these laws already on the books.
	There's even some stuff coming out that maybe Trump used funding from his campaign to fund some of these people.
	All those laws are on the books.
	And you want to prevent a leader from telling armed Nazis to go to the Capitol building?
	All those laws are there.
	You don't need new laws.
	But what they're using is an excuse for more over-reaching censorship.
	So now, if Black Lives Matter peacefully protests, they can be called domestic terrorists.
	Two years ago, when the Sunrise Movement went out and peacefully sat outside of Nancy Pelosi's office, they can say, oh, they're terrorists.
	That's right.
	They can say the terrorists.
	Oh, they're on the Capitol.
	They're terrorists.
	So like Greta Thunberg, oh, she's a terrorist.
	I mean, and we already know this from Facebook.
	They've let alt-right organizations keep their pages up when they take down a pro-Palestinian page.
	We've already seen their crazy hypocrisy.
	So it's like.
	So you know that Amy Goodman was, wasn't she charged with economic echo terrorism, not economic, but ecological terrorism, those people at Standing Rock, weren't they charged with terrorism?
	I'm pretty sure they were.
	I'm not, but so, so, Graham, but there's a, you know, there's a lot of people on the left that are cool with that, with this, with Facebook doing this to Donald Trump and Twitter and everybody else doing it and getting rid of parlor.
	There's a lot of people on the left that are super cool with this, right?
	You know that, right?
	Like not only cool with it, but cheering it on and say, if you're against this, you're defending fascists.
	What they're really doing is saying our brand of fascism is more palatable than that brand of fascism.
	Well, it's nicer.
	I mean, good Uncle Joe is going to be, his tweets are going to be nice while he's rolling troops into Syria and bombing people and sniffing kids' hairs like a filthy creep.
	I mean, this is the selective outrage that is so rampant in this country.
	Like all these people screaming, me too, me too.
	Oh, but not Tara Reed.
	We don't believe her.
	Yeah, Joe Biden.
	He killed not Bill Clinton.
	No.
	They're good guys.
	And so all these people, Graham, who are cool with this Facebook and cheering it on, all these people on the left, I just want to say this to them.
	All the people who cheered on Donald Trump and all the right-wingers being deplatformed and kicked off social media, there's a big authoritarian streak in the left.
	What they're really proposing when they propose censoring their political opponents, they're proposing fascism.
	They're proposing taking away people's speech and the right to free expression, and that's fascism.
	And they're saying, claiming they're fighting fascism while they're cheering on fascism.
	And we know who those people are on the left.
	Guess what?
	I have this to say to those people.
	People like over at TYT are always for censorship.
	I had so many arguments with them about censorship.
	They're always for censorship at TYT.
	Those kind of anybody on a corporate algorithm seems to be for censorship.
	Guess what?
	Breaking.
	Facebook has just shut down a major left-wing group in Britain.
	Why is Facebook silencing political activists who speak out for Palestine and Black Lives Matter?
	Hashtag Facebook censorship.
	There it is.
	There's an article from the Socialist Workers' Party.
	Facebook shuts down major left-wing groups.
	I guess the oversight board at Facebook found this necessary.
	Good thing Facebook can keep everybody in the dark about all of this.
	Isn't that great?
	That they can just go ahead and do that because there's no laws yet.
	So they have to just start doing it.
	Yeah, it's great that unelected tech billionaires can determine what our freedom of speech is.
	Isn't that what democracy is all about?
	I mean, like, if we, if we now more than ever, if we don't need, we've got to nationalize, make these public utilities and have real, like, independent public oversight.
	In the same way as you brought up, you know, cops investigating cops, that doesn't work.
	We need separate civilian oversight to monitor police.
	So when police commit crimes, they can't investigate themselves.
	And Facebook can't claim, oh, we're a private business.
	No, you're not anymore.
	No, you're not.
	No, you're a public utility, just like the phone company is.
	ATT can't decide to stop giving phone service to the Republican National Committee because they don't like the shit they're saying on their phone calls.
	That's called a utility.
	And so everybody has a right to a utility.
	If you're going to take away someone's right, you have to freaking have a legal reason to do that and they get to represent themselves in court.
	Facebook took actions on Friday, shutting down the Socialist Workers' Party page and removing dozens of leading socialist worker party activists from their platform.
	The Socialist Worker Party Facebook page regularly posts in support of Palestine, Black Lives Matter, and against Boris Johnson's COVID policies.
	It also hosts dozens of online events every week that activists across the country take part in.
	Glenn Greenwald says Facebook has shut down the accounts of one of the biggest left-wing organizations in Britain, the Socialist Workers' Party.
	The Socialist Workers' Party Facebook page posts in support of Palestine, Black Lives Matter, and against Boris Johnson COVID policy.
	Congrats to all who urged this system.
	I hate to say we told you so, but might as well, while there's a platform for us to still say it on, we told you so.
	We told you so, TYT.
	We told you that this is what would happen.
	We told you that this is what happens.
	It's already been happening.
	This is just another example of it happening.
	It's been happening since 2017.
	Glenn Greenwald says the only thing that's going to be left on the internet are CNN, Morning Joe, Vox, and K-Hive memes.
	Just imagine how boring that's going to be.
	That sounds like a donor dinner so lame, even Tom Perez would bail early.
	Just look at that lineup.
	If that was a music festival, it'd be a bigger disaster than Firefest.
	So there you go.
	So now Facebook officially out there just censoring left-wing pages, not giving a reason, no due process, no nothing.
	We're just censoring anything that's anti-establishment.
	So if you're for censorship and you think it's right because the guy you want to censor is a Nazi or the guy you want to censor is a racist or a white nationalist, what you don't understand is that that same censorship is going to be used against you.
	It already is because they don't censor people who are pro-establishment.
	They censor people who are anti-establishment.
	No matter if they're on the left, right, middle, no matter if you're anti-establishment, you're going to be censored.
	If you have a different narrative about war, if you have a different narrative about COVID, if you have a different worry about workers or strikes or anything in the world, you're going to be censored.
	If you have a different, they're censoring Socialist Workers' Party.
	They're out there advocating for workers and worker rights.
	That's the worst thing that they can have.
	Anything, Graham, on that?
	I mean, it's, I don't know.
	I mean, it's so funny.
	Like the left takes great pride in saying, oh, these right-winger MAGA, they vote against their own interests.
	And they do the same thing.
	They do the same.
	They do the same thing.
	And it's unbelievable.
	They can't realize that this is a slippery slope.
	There's a clear line.
	If somebody, look, if some white nationalist is saying, get a gun and go hurt that group of people or whatever, burn that, that's a crime.
	It's already on the books.
	There you go.
	You don't need new laws on top of that.
	And they're going To just be okay with it because I don't know.
	They don't want to put, they don't want to rock the boat.
	That's the, I mean, we know this.
	The neoliberals, especially the blue check Hollywood ones, man, they just want to go to brunch and you know, put a put a coexist sticker on their Prius and you know, put a rainbow flag on everything and really live in their predominantly white neighborhood and put a Black Lives Matter sign out and not really give a damn because they're they're not going to drive through South Central Los Angeles.
	They're not going to see working class people.
	They're going to drive by tent cities and go, boy, someone should do something about that.
	They don't care.
	And they think that they're better just because, and in fact, they're worse because they're college educated and they should they shouldn't they know better?
	They're trying to tell you that they know better and they don't.
	And it's and it's and it's they're just letting this happen.
	And they're America's been so propagandized, the right, the left, the center, they have no idea that America is collapsing.
	We are in a right-wing country.
	If you were watching another country go through this, you'd be like, oh, this country's done.
	They're collapsing.
	Yes.
	Americans and they're keeping us so divided.
	The ruling class is so skilled at keeping us divided.
	And they love playing along.
	The left just likes playing along with this.
	And if you're on the left and you're and you're giddy about censorship of any form, just to let you know, you're not on the left.
	That's an authoritarian right-wing position.
	That is a fascist position to be pro-censorship of anybody.
	So just so you know, if you, I don't care if you're transgendered and you're forced censorship, that doesn't make you on the left.
	Nope.
	Your sexuality doesn't make you on the left.
	What makes you on the left is your policies.
	And if you're on, if you think you're on the left and you're forced censorship, you're a right-winger.
	You're an authoritarian fascist.
	Sorry to break it to you, but that's how it works in the real world, no matter what you fucking think.
	Ha ha ha ha!
	laughs Bell rings
	Hello, this is Jimmy.
	Who's this?
	Jimmy Gates, double V. Hey, what's up, friend of the show, Vince Vaughan?
	How you doing?
	Well, I have to admit, ladies love cool James Doerr.
	I am a little perplexed.
	You know what?
	Scratch that.
	Flummixed.
	Flummixed, Jimmy.
	Well, what has you flummoed, Vince?
	Well, as you may be aware, a few days ago, a video surfaced that some coward took and put on the internet.
	Seriously, you like to film people from a distance and then put it on the internet to get them in trouble.
	I'm sure everything is absolutely fine with you in the cock and balls department.
	No, really.
	Anyway.
	Hey, you know, there's a lot more to that phone call, but we don't have time in today's podcast.
	How do you hear the entire phone call?
	You got to become a premium member.
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	Today's show is written by Ron Placone, Mark Van Landowitz, Steph Zamarano, Jim Earl, Mike McRae, and Roger Rittenhouse.
	All the voices performed today by the one and the only the inimitable Mike McRae, who can be found at MikeMcRae.com.
	That's it for this week.
	You be the best you can be, and I'll keep being me.

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