Tania Edwards exposes the NHS as a "human sacrifice" system, not a lifesaver, while dismissing global warming claims as a "massive con" tied to land grabs and ideological manipulation. She brands AI the "devil incarnate," severing creativity, and warns against cultural brainwashing via figures like Leonard Cohen—alleged spy or occult manipulator—contrasting him with Bach’s purity. Personal spiritual journeys, she argues, resist reconciliation even when shared, as seen in Tolstoy’s unresolved tensions or her own evolving views on Alan Watts. True morality stems from love, not fear, but warns that obsession with horrors—like Epstein revelations—distracts from deeper ethical responsibility. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to the Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but before we meet her, even though you can see her already, let's have a word from our sponsor.
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Well, there were lots of reasons why you should have physical gold and silver as an insurance against continued decline of fiat currency, the uncertainties in the conventional stock markets.
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And I would go to the PURE GOLD Company, the Puregoldcompany.co.uk.
Adjusting Reins00:14:19
Forward slash, James Dash, Dellingpole.
Forward slash, um.
Welcome back to the the Delling POD.
Honorary Dick Substitute, whatever.
Tanya Edwards.
Hello, i've got various things to tell you.
I'm sure you, i'm sure you've got loads to talk about Tanya, but I I wanted to tell you about my, my morning um and, as you know, we're starting this early well, I mean relatively early, it's it's 10 o'clock, which is an it's kind of annoying time to start a podcast and I explained to you that I have to go to a hospital appointment myself because because I i've i've broken my finger, um and um, on a horse obviously,
and I had an appointment in the hospital this afternoon at like one o'clock or something um, and Last Friday, as I was driving back from seeing Dick in Worcester, I wound down.
Okay, well, there's nothing wrong with my internet, James, until I speak to you, but I think I might be some sort of tech demon because this even happened with your new best friend.
So I moved.
I was going to ask you, was my story that boring?
I literally disappeared before you even started it.
I haven't heard one second.
And it's telling me that it's uploading this threading trap.
And I was much better off before because I was really well positioned in the dark and I'm in horrible daylight, which isn't my best look.
Anyway, sorry.
I don't want to say that.
It's not top light.
No, whatever that is.
I know you girls worry about top light.
Apparently, it's unflattering as I.
Well, the whole thing's unflattering days.
And I'm also holding on.
It doesn't matter.
Let's hear your story.
I don't care.
I can just see a blur.
You're just like a kind of.
Yeah.
So people are not going to be able to focus on you.
I was telling you my exciting story before you rudely interrupted by disappearing.
So I was driving back from seeing Dick on real Dick as opposed to honorary Dick.
And we'll substitute Dick.
And as I was driving back, the car missed it up.
And all my cars are really, really crappy, right?
I like buying old.
Well, there were three in the drive, but one's been dead for like nine months.
And I've been wanting to replace.
It's a Nissan Micra.
And I like it because it's old, but has got very low mileage because it used to belong to, it belonged to my late father-in-law who hardly used it.
And I've got this.
That's not really used at all.
That's one way to keep the mileage down, James.
I've got this theory that with each new year, they add on more complicated shit to cars designed to fail to make them more expensive to maintain, unnecessary stuff.
So you want an old car with low mileage.
The older, the better.
So anyway, that's broken at the moment because the power steering's gone.
But I'm thinking it's probably worth paying 700 quid to get the power steering back just so that I've got this car that's, you know.
Anyway, I was driving by another crap of crap cars, my daughter's crap car, and I wound down the window to demiss the windows and it wouldn't go up again.
And it was on that particularly cold, I don't really remember last Friday.
It was just unbelievably cold.
There was a kind of a really bitter wind and there was rain.
And I checked on my phone, you know, what temperature does it feel like?
It felt like minus six.
And so I was in this car freezing my ass off.
And I then had to get it home and tape up the windows when you can't because it's raining and it means it doesn't stick.
And anyway, it was horrible.
The point was, I needed this car to get to my hospital appointment this afternoon.
So to deal with my finger.
I broke my finger on a horse while I was hunting.
Obviously, I was hunting.
And I was, We've been going for about a half an hour and I done a few jumps, I think, but I was kind of in the, I was adrenalized in the moment and well, well oiled with from my hip flask.
Um, and I suddenly became aware that my finger was really hurting in my glove.
And I was thinking, why?
Why?
It really, really hurts.
And I thought, oh, if I ignore it, it'll go away.
And it didn't go away.
It just got the pain was sometimes agonizing.
And I had to adjust my reins normally go through there.
And I had to adjust my reins so they went through there and sort of hold the reins at a funny angle.
The problem was the horse I was on was an ex-racehorse and he hadn't got a bit.
He doesn't like having a bit.
And I had no brakes.
So I was pulling really hard at the reins to try and stop him overtaking all the other horses, which obviously he was doing because he was a racehorse.
Every time I tried to tuck him behind another horse to slow him down, he'd just he'd find a way through.
It was really quite a scary experience.
But it was also exciting.
And the pain just got worse.
And I just sort of dosed it with Damson Gin.
And I stuck at it for two more hours.
But after that, somebody said to me, because they could see I was in pain and I was riding in a funny, you know, but I was holding the reins in a funny way.
They said, have you had a good day?
And I said, yes.
And she said, don't you think you should quit while you're ahead rather than carrying on with a broken finger?
And somebody else said, I've got some paracutamol if you want.
And I said, did you actually break it just holding onto the reins?
Is that what you mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know how it happened.
Maybe I hit the saddle.
Maybe the horse was pulling so hard.
Maybe I caught it on the next strap.
I don't know.
I didn't come off.
James, is because I'm going horse riding on Saturday with my children.
Not fast.
I would say telling you.
I can't have any kind of accident because of my piano thing, which is my last.
Apparently it does happen, but I think it would have to happen doing something like being hunting under extreme conditions.
Not trotting around Hyde Park.
On a racehorse.
You're not going to break your finger just holding some reins.
No.
Because I've been leaning very heavily on the Chinese zodiac, James, and apparently this isn't a good year for me.
I don't think it's even possible.
I didn't think it was even possible.
I mean, I'm very surprised that I managed to do it.
I don't know what happened.
Anyway, can I ask why you looked at your phone though to check how the weather felt?
That really bothers me.
No, I wanted to see what the temperature was.
And you can't these days look at your weather app without discovering not only what the temperature is minus the wind speed, but also no, but what also is the temperature.
Now, now.
The temperature is also with the wind speed.
And yeah, that was all.
But I agree, it's silly.
So I had a hospital appointment to go in this afternoon to go and have it looked at.
Well, I could tell you more about this if you're interested.
I'm going to tell you about it anyway because about hospitals.
Yeah.
So I thought, well, I can't get a taxi because the hospital's miles away and that will cost me a lot.
I'm going to have to get a hire car.
So I hired a car on Saturday because I couldn't get it today because my wife's in the office.
So I couldn't have got a lift.
I couldn't have got a lift to the higher car place.
So I had to hire it for three days rather than one.
So I spent £124, the cheapest I could spend, hiring the smallest car I could find.
Except they upgraded me because they don't do small cars these days.
Anyway, this morning I get the post and I think, well, there's a letter from the NHS here, but it doesn't matter because I'm going to see the hospital, going to see them this afternoon.
And it said, we are sorry, we've had to cancel your appointment this afternoon and it's next week.
And so I spent £124 on a hire car, which I'm not going to use, except all I'm going to do, I run out of milk.
I run out of milk for my tea that I haven't had yet because I'm fasting this morning and you can't have tea when you're fasting.
I'm just having just shit.
Like it's got it's got no nutrition, no milk in it.
So that doesn't count.
And so it's going to be £124 for a bottle of milk to put in my tea.
Yeah.
So that's my day.
You get to drive to and from the garage, don't you?
That's fun.
It's weird.
I broke my toe last September and it ruined my whole life.
And I didn't even realize at the time.
I just thought it was a broken toe.
But actually, everything went to shit after that.
Just something that tiny.
I'm fine now.
It's extraordinary, isn't it?
How a kind of apparently inconsequential thing like breaking your finger actually is a real pain.
I mean, my life, James, that changed the world.
Do you think it is?
It's like the butterfly, the butterfly in the rainforest that changes, that causes a hurricane in.
I don't know.
I stubbed my toe and now I'm on a completely different life path.
Well, how did you have any theories on how you're stubbing your toe?
Why did it go to shit?
You're like, well, firstly, because I didn't realize.
So I'm very, very fit, James.
You are.
You're well fit, Johnny.
We all know that.
No, I don't know.
I'm physically, I'm a healthy person.
And it means that I don't really need much sleep and stuff.
And I can drive through stressful situations because I'm fit, physically fit, healthy.
And when I broke my toe, I couldn't do anything anymore.
So I was still driving through what is what has been one of the more, shall we delicately say, stressful periods of my life, but without anything to offset my override.
And by Christmas, which is, which is Christmas is amazing with small children.
But as everybody knows, I'm going through a very acrimonious divorce.
And so it was a delicate balancing act as we're all in the same house.
And everything sort of, well, I just fell apart.
And then after, and it was literally just this, because I'd stopped balancing things out.
And so now I've had to completely give up everything.
I basically went back to Bikrim, which is this hot rim yoga that I'm obsessed with that you think is the devil's work.
Because the devil's working.
Normally I can do hours of it.
And I went.
And I think anybody that has to even take a break for a second is weak and pathetic.
And I'm very judgmental.
Do you hiss at them?
Do you spit at them?
I just think that they're sad.
And I went to this class and I didn't know, James, if I was going to faint, vomit, or shit myself.
I couldn't.
I had to lie down.
I couldn't even speak.
And anyway, so since then, everything's fine.
I just got sick and now I'm fine.
But it's amazing because it affects everything else.
It affects how you, I think that the whole of life is an energy exchange.
And when your own energy is corrupted, it's disastrous in ways that you couldn't possibly anticipate.
Yes.
Yes.
I've definitely been feeling a lot worse in many different ways as a result of this kind of minor injury.
I mean, I've been very upset that I can't go hunting.
Although I suppose if I were really brave, I'd have just said, ah, sod it, strap yourself up and kick on.
And it's definitely affected me mentally, which is, which is.
And also, I wanted to tell you about my sort of moment of personal revelation, not that it isn't obvious, when I went to this hospital to have my finger looked at.
And I realized the degree to which hospitals are killing machines, posing as sort of lifesavers.
Hospitals as Killing Machines00:03:57
And I don't want to get at the people who are actually in the system because they're often hardworking, decent people.
The woman who looked at my finger was she cared and she did the best job she could.
But I went to the hospital once and I walked through the room.
It's like a sort of big hallway.
And on either side of the wall, there are people sitting there getting their chemo.
And they're often with their loved ones who are sort of keeping them company and they're sort of trying to not to be bored because I think they've got to have quite a long time having this stuff pumped into them.
And I was thinking this supposed therapy you're having is nothing of the kind.
This is Rockefeller Medicine, which was designed as the passive sort of systematic slaughter process to go with all the other methods that they've introduced to kill people, starting obviously with vaccines and so on.
And we live in a country where supposedly the NHS is, yeah, it's our NHS.
It's our national evolution.
But that's, you know, it's devilish anyway, just because it's so full of bureaucracy.
And the moment you have that much admin, there is no humanity left in it.
I'm partial to looking at these Christie's catalogues.
You know anyone that emailed for these auction houses?
Not that I could ever afford any of these things.
I just like Christie's catalogues.
Although, of course, Christie's and Sotheby's are demonic, obviously.
I mean, they're all owned by.
Well, I think probably at this point, most things are.
But what I really like is the, I've been thinking a lot about this.
I want to talk to you actually about the Uroboro Seating at Stone Tail, but we'll get to that in a second.
I was looking at this Christie's catalogue because what I really, really like are these collections of the discerning collector, which is basically all of the, you know, all of the figurines that the children can't wait to cash in when their parents die.
They're very rich parents.
But I really like these collections because they're so eclectic and because they're defined by nothing other than someone's personal taste.
Obviously, we can accept that everything in these collections has value, but they're very peculiar.
What are they listed as?
So when someone rich dies, instead of it being a proper catalogue, it's, you know, it's basically everything that the bereaved children are trying to cash in at high speed.
Yes, yes, okay.
The collection of dot dot dot.
Yes.
And those are the things I like to look through because they're the things that people have specifically collected over time that obviously half of the family hates, but has to grudgingly respect because of its price tag.
But they always have, even in this recent collection I was looking at, they had a picture, a painting of the quack doctor.
And you see it constantly coming up through art.
I'm not talking, I'm talking about all of the obscure artists and most writers, Goethe, Dostoevsky, they all understand that the doctor is often a quack playing on your hypochondria and your need for reassurance and your fear and your fear of your immortality and your own fluctuating energy.
You're really, when you're ill, you just need to get rid of something toxic.
But obviously the most important thing to get rid of is bad thoughts and a doctor can give you loads of those.
But when they were outside a system, when they just used to wander from house to house, everybody could see what they were.
Sometimes they were good, sometimes they were bad.
Agent's Concerns About AI00:06:59
But now that they're just in a huge machine, they have no responsibility.
They have.
No, there's no way of there's.
There's no community inside the hospital that anyone outside the hospital could recognize, which means that there's no responsibility to the patient and there's no repercussions.
It's, it's not.
It's completely, and not it's monstrous, it's completely anonymous.
For reasons I can't be bothered to go into, I was in Great Alban Street Hospital for my completely healthy children, which is ironically stressful and My son accidentally pulled down these pride flags.
Yeah, the receptionist, she raced out to restore our sexual liberation, trying to hang all of these flags up again and she, she couldn't do it, but it was because the the flags went from one corner of the children's ward to the other corner and then across again and I was looking at it thinking how could, why are they here in the children's ward?
Is it that a genuine, a parent whose child is actually sick, who's under that terrible stress, is relieved that someone somewhere is sniffing a load of poppers having a wild time at a rave that weekend?
I just I can't understand the logic of them being there like I can't.
I don't understand it.
But also the whole system now.
Is that you can?
The child's body has become a battlefield of ideas and the state and the system itself Is quite happy to assume illness instead of health in a healthy child because it generates money.
And it's a similar thing as once you have this much bureaucracy and once you have this much cash, even ignoring all the actual pharmaceuticals, even if it was once you have that, once you have that kind of industry, you have to supply something to it.
And what we're supplying to it is our children.
We've long ago abandoned our elderly to it.
We've long ago severed all ties of responsibility to other family members and given them all to the machine.
And now we're putting our children into it because there's nothing else to put into it.
It's the only thing now that will keep it standing.
People imagine that the NHS needs more money to keep going, but it doesn't.
What it needs is more patience.
What it needs is more human sacrifice.
And the only people that we have left to give is our children.
And a similar thing is happening, I think, with AI.
Dominic Frisbee is an excellent example of this because he's so intelligent and talented, but also pragmatic.
So he uses AI.
He's just written an article on it about how he's quite happy to use it for certain things to generate PR for himself.
You know, things he wouldn't like to write to if he needs to deal with admin or some sort of, I think he even said personal feedback.
Now, I think that AI is the devil incarnate.
I think it's the final move to relinquish us of our creativity, which is our attachment to God, I think.
But what people imagine, and Dominic is one of them, that it's just a question of how quickly it advances and whether it can do certain things, like have a sense of humor.
But AI is not to do with how quickly the machine advances.
It's to do with how quickly we devolve.
So it's not to do, the machine can already do at most things, I think, but we haven't become stupid enough to think that that has total value yet.
We are still at a point when we appreciate an original painting in situ or we appreciate stained glass in situ.
We appreciate something with its attachment to the ritual itself of its creation and its place in context.
And AI is severing that entirely.
It's the sort of final end point of art and the age of mechanical reproduction.
And I don't think anybody should use it at all.
And I don't think that they shouldn't use it because it's going to get better and replace us.
I don't think that they should use it because it's making them simple-minded.
It's making them stupid and it's removing their taste.
So there will be no more eclectic collections.
There will just be that woman, Marie Kundo, and an empty room with a laptop in it, like that awful advert.
It will all be over.
And it won't be because the machine advanced.
It will be because we became really thick and we did it voluntarily for want of attention.
That's depressing, but true, I think.
All you say.
I don't use it.
But you'll be smarter for longer.
Well, for that, yeah, I mean, I think instinctively I've grasped that what you say is true.
I suspect, not being bitchy, but I suspect that somebody that we know uses AI for his articles.
The sort of people who do use AI for their articles, I think already it's a kind of deal breaker.
Um, because I don't know what you're driving at, James.
You don't know what I'm driving at.
No, is it important for me to state here for the record that I don't think you're an MI5 agent?
Because I think I think if you were an MI5 agent, you would provide your VIP guests with one free slice of pizza at your events.
Not a whole pizza, I think that would be suspicious.
But I think that they'd get a slice of pizza with their bell ringing if you were an MI5 agent.
I think that if I were if wait, I mean, I'm not ruling it out.
If I am MI5 or MI6, if you are, that's exciting for me because you'll be exciting.
I tell you what, it's exciting for you because it means you've you've you're talking to an MI5 agent, which is which is interesting.
Um, but for me, it's exciting because it means I'm really, really, really good at my job because I don't think many people have suspected.
I mean, apart from mad, mad people on Substack, but there's there's a sort of I think about 10 people think that, and everyone else has been fooled, which is which I think is a tribute to my talents of deception.
Charisma On The Screen00:09:23
And it doesn't matter.
No.
Well, it doesn't matter to me because I'm not sleeping with you.
So I wouldn't feel personally let down.
But also, I am, I'm not sure it would really matter.
I think everybody's too muddled now.
So I've really been thinking about this a lot.
I'm sure I've bored you with it before that the best comedian I've ever seen in real life had such terrific charisma, it's almost impossible to describe unless you see it.
It's it's uh it's an energy that's incalculable and can't be bottled.
And years later, I saw him on television doing exactly the same jokes, and it was crap.
And it was crap because the television itself gives people charisma, which is how they're able to promote absolute idiots who will say exactly what they're told to say and will regurgitate whatever writing they're given and who are entirely dependent on the system because they don't exist without it.
They don't even exist in a room.
They only exist through the medium of the technology.
But it seems to be charisma.
Well, just by virtue of being on it, people that is the charisma.
So the man that had charisma in real life, when he was on television, he was indistinguishable from the other people.
You couldn't tell that he was the one that had charisma.
All you could see was that all of these people went out, did their thing, the lights flashed, the audience cheered.
I could tell the difference because I'd seen them all live.
One of these men was a genius and the rest weren't.
But on the television, they were all the same.
They were all democratized in that way.
What distinguished them was that they were on the screen.
It wasn't what they were saying.
It wasn't what they were doing.
It wasn't to do with anything at all.
It was just bells and whistles and crashing at the bless you and looking at the audience.
And that's not real either, by the way.
That's all fake.
But so in the last decade or so, there used to be this huge world on the periphery, which is where I wanted to be.
I wanted to be on the edge.
I wanted to be in the basement with depressed people telling jokes to fools.
But that whole outside, everything, the burlesque, the freak, even a circus is now a run on QR codes and tokens and cards.
Everything has been brought into the center.
And I used to think that the center had been pushed to the periphery, but I don't think that now.
I think that everything is in a muddle and it's supposed to be in a muddle.
And the people like us that imagine we can see where the world's going and we don't like its direction, we are always predicting what will happen to the future, this digital prison, this digital ID.
But I actually think that this is the interesting moment for the powers that be.
This is the interesting moment where you're catching the residuum of freedom.
Because at this point, we're still free to an extent, or as much as we were, to make our own creative choices, to meet who we wish to meet, to define our own tastes, to collect our own stuff.
The only reason we're following, I never had to do lockdown.
I didn't take any injection.
The reason that we imagine we're being coerced or pushed this way or that is because we're really too lazy to say no.
But this is the moment that it's interesting.
Once everybody is captured, that's just when the people in power, they won't have anyone left to be interested in apart from each other, and they'll all kill themselves, just like it was off the French Revolution when they all chopped each other's heads off.
Because this is the moment, in other words, before we're all dead in our souls, that there is anything for anybody to do.
There is still a moment now for us to be corralled into this circle, which means that there's a huge possibility for all of the interesting people to step outside it.
And that's another thing that's been bothering me because it's a bit like gentrification.
You always hear that, you know, rich people move to a certain shabby area and then suddenly everyone wants to live there like Hackney.
But it's not really true.
It's that certain interesting people move to certain spots and they're the ones that you hear about.
You don't hear about all of the people that move somewhere and it failed.
You just hear about these teeny tiny spots that were basically defined by a few people with good taste and inconspicuously moving there.
And I think that because charisma is being removed from the public and people don't like it in their real life anymore because they're not paying attention to it.
They are paying attention to their telephones or to their to their idea of what might be popular and this relentless obsession with the with the face and modifying it from a very young age.
So people can't even really see what they're supposed to look like anymore.
They don't know what they're supposed to look like.
But I think what's actually happening is that there's going to be a space on the outside for someone with charisma.
And that will be when we have cult worship.
And it won't be the sort of worship of someone like Elon Musk, who's just a fantasy of someone that has loads of money, can spend all of their time shitposting on Twitter.
It will be someone with genuine charisma will be scooped up and you'll start having cults of the personality again.
And I don't think anyone should join those.
I think it's going to be a very good idea.
I was going to ask you where you stood on cults of the personality because I was going to say, well, Tanya, should I be starting one?
Should I be very dangerous?
And I think that we've never been readier for one.
And I don't think it's going to be an obvious one.
So it's quite clear at the moment that these different characters are being tested.
I don't know if you saw the Benjamin skit where he talks about Zoolander basically trialling the idea of Biden and Trump.
It's an excellent, an excellent 10 minutes, a very insightful 10 minutes.
But the thing about all of these characters, like Trump, as well, he actually says that they, yeah, I'll find it.
He said that they screen test these things where they're screen testing movies.
What they're actually doing is screen testing the kind of characters that people would find appealing in political life.
And they get all of the feedback and then they modify them and then they present them to the public.
But the things about characters like Elon Musk and Trump, to anybody with any residual sense of discernment, is that they're obviously characters and there's nothing there to grieve them.
They can't be wounded because they're not real.
But I think that when the cult of the personality arises again, it will be from a person that is not given to us from the mainstream.
It will look like they're coming from the outside and they probably will, in as much as that will be how the most authentic cult can be formed.
And all of these other ideas, you know, these silly figures like Tommy Robinson or, you know, whatever, they are just different ways of testing how much sincerity you need to catch the public's imagination.
But I think that the ones to worry about are going to be the people that genuinely have charisma.
And it's hard to imagine that there are any of those left, but there will be a few.
And it's important not to worship them because it's going to be a terrible shock, I think, to people that have become completely inured to charisma and are completely conformist and think that charisma is fame or recognition.
Those people aren't going to be prepared for charisma.
They're going to fall to their knees before it because it's an overwhelming force.
So your charismatic man or woman is going to come from so-called a man.
Is it going to come from awake circles?
I'm not sure.
I don't know.
It's not for me to prophecy.
I just think this.
I can hear horses in the background.
Yeah, I was just thinking it myself.
But normally, if you hear a horse around here, it's police.
When I lived in Camden, you'd hear them all clippity-cloppeting down the high street past all of the painted houses.
Because with me, it's when I hear clippy-cloppy, it means it's the hunt going by, and I always rush out to see them and see who's out that day.
Finally Can't Agree00:15:23
Do you still hunt?
Is it that what kind of hunting is it?
Is it that scent hunting or is it fox hunting?
Or you're not allowed to tell me online in case you get arrested.
Yeah, fair enough.
Exactly.
But I mean, it's like it's quite exciting, and you jump over things and have good adventures.
Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this.
The man downstairs is calling me home.
Okay.
Hello.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Alright boy, oh, oh, yeah, just, just, yeah.
Global warming is a massive con.
There was no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually, the first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the climate change scam got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen ClimateGate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scam.
I then asked the question: okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands up.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk forward slash shop.
You'll probably find that way.
Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk.
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that, oh, it's a disaster.
We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Movick Dia.
No, we don't.
It's a scam.
Here I am.
Hello.
Sorry about that.
I had to deal with a tradesman and I just had to answer questions and listen to what he said.
Because otherwise, what would happen is the wife would get back and say, how did blah, go?
And I said, oh, yeah, he came and blah, blah, blah.
And did he do the so-and-so?
And did it, and what about this?
And I go, I don't know.
So I have to pretend like I know.
Things to be both just tiresome.
Yeah, admin is really boring, but it needs to be done.
Although I've been reading Alan Watts, actually.
Oh, who?
Alan Watts said it with a plural.
Yes.
Is he not dodgy?
We'd be having a mad love affair.
Well, it's quite interesting, actually.
I spent my children are in Ireland for the weekend and with their father.
And I really don't like it.
But actually, I've had an amazing time.
I've been playing music and reading for about 12 to 14 hours a day.
But I've been designing these, well, adapting simple children's games to see how you could teach them about music.
And I think I'm going to have these prototypes made in March.
Anyway, I've had a really good time making stuff.
That's not the point.
The point is, I was reading Alan Watts and I was reading John Garnier, who wrote The Worship of the Dead at the same time.
So John Garnier is a Christian who this book is on sin And Alan Watts is on Zen and Beat or Square Zen.
They have very different perspectives.
Yeah, I really like Alan Watts, but obviously, you either believe in God or you don't.
Do you?
Well, that's it.
He obviously doesn't believe in God.
He believes in the universe, but he doesn't believe in the hierarchy.
And I'm fascinated in this at the moment because for one person, they'd say there is no suffering, and for the other person, they'd say suffering brings you closer to God.
But I have to be honest, James, when I was reading the book on sin, I was filled with existential dread.
And every time I turned to Alan Watts, I felt much calmer.
And I don't think either of them are necessarily wrong.
And then I started reading Dostoevsky, and he's just funny.
Well, surely if you're a Christian.
I mean, it's all very well saying, oh, he believes in the universe.
Well, what universe?
So he doesn't believe in the hierarchy.
So, okay, well, what does he believe?
A charismatic Christian doesn't believe in the hierarchy either.
I was talking to this about Alistair about this.
I don't believe in their charismatic Christianity, but I've just got to a point.
I said this to you before that I went back in time and started reading people from 150 years ago and their arguments about our purpose for being here and why.
And even John Garnier, so my favorite Christian writer is Philip Sherrard.
But then I love his Christianity and Eros, but then I read Joseph de Maestra and his consideration le divorce, and I just think, well, they are there, two people with ostensibly similar ideas that couldn't be further removed from each other.
So Philip Sherard certainly believes in the purpose of a monk or the purpose of asceticism.
And John Garnier would say that the cruelest people alive would be the ascetic or the Catholic priest that hasn't doesn't have the familiarity of day-to-day love and is therefore hardened of heart.
So it's all very well saying, hey, you can't believe in Zen man and believe in God.
Well, you could put three Christians in the same room, and if they were informed enough of their own tradition, they couldn't possibly be compatible.
And I think that that's fine.
I think that these differences are vital if we're going to have any kind of character left at all.
And we're not just a big swamp of shit that can be harvested, harvested by evil people.
I think all of our energy at the moment is being harvested, and the way to keep it for ourselves and share it amongst ourselves is to be different to each other.
And I really am interested in this energy feeding.
I think that we feed off our children.
Hopefully, we give to them and it's part of a flow.
But I think that if God is the divine flow, some people have access to it probably because they're pure, and other people have access to the people that have access to it.
But all children are pure, so all children have access to the divine flow.
And I think consciously or unconsciously, we feed on our children's energy when we don't have any of our own.
And I'm not sure that the energy we think we're getting from other things is necessarily good.
And I think that Alan Watts absolutely had access to good energy, and that has something to say for itself, irrespective of my philosophy or philosophy.
So, what do you think the deal with God is?
Because I don't know, the catch-in-why do you want to come in here?
I don't know.
Well, my tortoise is in here sunbathing.
Yeah, because he's out of hibernations.
I can't put him back into the garden just yet because it's not quite warm enough.
But he's just sunbathing in the sitting room, looking rather cross.
But I won't put him outside.
This cat's looking entitled.
Yeah.
We were talking about Dick becoming an Orthobro and how he's freeing him up for more time to paint because he doesn't have to think anymore.
It's just foreign enough and just complex enough.
I mean, Orthodox is just incredibly attractive, especially when you've seen it in Russia and you've heard the singing and stuff and the lives of the saints and all that.
And the noetic prayer and I love it.
But even though it's really hard in that you have to have every other day is some kind of fasting day and you have to stand up and long, long services and long, long rituals and formulae.
But it's kind of laid out for you, isn't it?
You know what the rules are and that's very comforting.
But also freeing, I suppose.
Yeah.
But you said something about, yeah, but you, James, and I, Tanya, haven't really got that consolation.
We're spending our whole time wrestling.
Yes.
Well, because I, well, there's two things, really.
Firstly, I got finally made it to the point.
So I said to you that I've been reading from these people hundreds of years ago so that I could think about why I'm here and what I'm here for, but without the context of the background noise of my current, you know, the current period.
All important things are as current today as they were 200 or 300 or 400 or 1,000 years ago.
Everything good in man is the same.
And all of our important questions are the same questions.
But you can forget that by the distractions of contemporary life.
But it's finally happened that I've got to a point where people aren't just disagreeing.
I haven't read it.
I don't know if you're familiar with An Imitation of Christ.
It's a book by a famous Catholic.
It's apparently a hugely important book in Imitation by Thomas the Kempis.
Thomas Okempis.
So I was reading An Orthodox Priest, and he describes this book as a clear example of devil possession.
And of the very things that other people consider the most holy of holies, this Orthodox priest, who I also admire hugely, considers demonic.
And there's the problem right there.
You've nailed it, Tiny.
This is exactly what I wrestle with every day.
That I see people from different areas of the, you can't use the word denominations because Catholics don't consider themselves a denomination or some such nonsense.
But you think you're all good people and you're all a lot of you are well-read and clever.
And yet you're you can't agree on stuff.
You can't agree on really basic stuff.
You're absolutely right.
It is a problem.
And there's no authority you can go to.
But I don't think that that's a problem.
I think that the problem is actually defined by this Orthodox priest who He's now, this is interesting.
I mean, God, this is too complicated to go into here.
Suffice it to say, from the perspective of this particular Orthodox priest, he sees the attack, if you like, as Hinduism invading Western philosophy about a hundred years ago.
So he sees that the and some of my favorite Christian writers are really have reached a point where they see the parallels in Hinduism and Christianity, and they've written really interesting stuff on it, which is why this surprised me and intrigued me.
So he says that this idea that you worship the evil one as well as the good, and that all of these different religious denominations are together,
the Muhammadan and the Christian and the Hindu and the Sikh are all praying together in one great space to worship one thing and putting all of their denominational differences aside or even their actual whole belief systems aside to pray together.
He says that this is the ground for the Antichrist.
Now, irrespective of what you feel about the Antichrist, I don't think it is correct for everybody to be worshiping together.
And I know that that might be, I think you're summoning a different thing when you throw very disparate people into the same room praying for different things at the same time under the illusion that by praying for nothing specific, that that's therefore okay.
I think if you're praying, you need to have a very clear idea of who you are praying to and why.
And I don't think you should strip yourself down of your own idea of goodness and God in order to commune in that way with lots of people at once, unless you're at a Britney Spears concert, which I also think is awful.
So that kind of indiscriminate worship, I think, is very dangerous.
Well, totally.
But that's, I mean, we've been seeing that ecumenicism, which the Orthodox seem to be particularly worried about.
Violent Revelations00:15:58
And I quite, I respect their extreme reluctance to engage in ecumenical activity where all, yeah, we're all brothers under the skin.
We all believe it's.
But I also think that I think I mentioned this to you before.
When you start learning music, like I have, which I can't stop hanging on about because I'm so obsessed.
I'm going to see my friend playing his recital this afternoon.
He's playing Prokofiev.
I mean, these people are so clever.
Anyway, but if you start learning music, for example, you're saved by the fact that you're no good.
So this is why there was a huge fashion for DJing and electronic music, because people that suddenly like music could imagine that they were good at it when they weren't at all.
But if you actually like real music, there's no possibility of you becoming proud because at every turn, you're faced with failure.
And the only way, even as you improve, you just really learn to listen more and then you realize how dreadful you are.
Whereas when you turn to God, as I did, or you did, or Alistair did, or so many people did in recent years, there is no system of steps that stops you tripping over yourself in your haste to be more holy than your neighbor.
And because we have been trained to think that experiences, big experiences are more significant than small ones, there's a great temptation to imagine that you're chosen in some way.
And I believe that everybody, the grace is available if you ask for grace.
And I believe that everybody is special and everybody is sacred.
And I think that everybody does have access to religious experiences and insight, but that to find the insight, you probably need to shut up about the experiences until you understand them.
And when you understand them, you definitely need to be quiet about them because you would realize at that point that they're not to share or brag about.
But because there isn't a system of steps for the newbie, if you like, it's quite easy for them to become dogmatic or cushioned by the idea that they found the place now and they don't have to think anymore.
And it's interesting.
Alistair did this actually.
He shared an AI clip, which I'm trying to write about.
I haven't managed to make it funny yet because it's so serious.
But he shared this thing about how God saves his people because I think he believes in the rapture.
I have a different idea of the rapture.
Anyway, he shares the teaching of Lot, you know, that Lot is God saves his people.
So Lot is taken out of Sodom and Gomorrah by these angels.
But with this Bible quotes, he shared the clip.
And the clip is of these two angels hustling Lot out of Sodom and Gomorrah, like a couple of bodyguards hustling a celeb out of a nightclub.
And it's all animated, these beleaguered angels with their grubby feathers.
And hilariously, Lot actually turns back.
He turns back in this clip where all the fireballs are going off in the background.
And I try to explain to Alistair that this firstly is just a threat, isn't it?
It's just inviting people to change the fear of the temporal to the fear of the eternal.
But really, morality itself, true morality, comes beyond fear of rewards and punishments.
I do believe that.
I think that when you everything I've ever done that's good in my life has been because of love and every mistake I've ever made in my life has been because of fear.
But anything genuine I have done is when I have been independent of feeling frightened and I've accepted the consequences of my actions.
And I think that you can change anything bad into something good if you are honest about it.
And I think you can make anything beautiful ugly by feeling bad about it.
And I think that this whole idea that you should just be scared of something and that's how you should comport yourself is wrong.
But the actual clip is so naff.
And the point is that if God created everything from nothing and we are supposed to be creative and we supposed to be able to create something from nothing and in that moment of creation understand and connect with God, then feeding everything into grok or whatever stupid machine it is and having your ideas vomited back to you and imagining that that's some kind of creative accomplishment is the end of you.
It's literally the end of your humanity.
But also I was wondering why this was so shit.
This clip was so shit.
And I think it's because that was supposed to make it look more holy.
The fact that it was so bad was supposed to separate it from all of the good, really current stuff that is secular.
Or maybe Satan made it to make it.
I was headed.
Sorry.
But he did make it.
But I'm saying, why is the actual clip rubbish?
And I think it's to make, I think it's to make the to make to still separate this religious AI from secular AI.
Yeah.
So secular person, they look at the religious AI and they think, God, that's so crap.
Religious people are so naive and backwards.
But the religious person looks at that rubbish a bit like someone looking at an icon and not understanding it and just thinking that it's kitsch.
Right.
And they think it makes it authentic.
They think that there's something to be taught there, that it's real because it's naf.
But there's nothing there.
There's nothing in it.
I don't think that there's any answer apart from to turn it all off.
I saw someone I really admire say that if you didn't read the Epstein files, it was because you were weak and cowardly.
And on the same day, it wasn't me.
No, it wasn't you, Darnie.
I would be more direct if it was you.
I'd say, why did he say that rubbish, James?
You MI5 stooge.
I can't help it.
It's a job.
I get hurt.
I get trouble.
I get to kill people.
Get to go to Russia.
Speak to people.
Get to Russia.
Yeah.
No, anyway, so I also saw my friend for lunch and he said that years ago, his friend in France had said that the Satanists are doing this terrible stuff.
And I said, I don't want to hear it, Paul.
I don't want to hear it.
Don't tell me.
But he couldn't help it.
And he kept giving me details.
He said, oh, he said that they did this.
I'm not going to say any of it.
He said that they did this.
And he said that they, I said, I don't want to hear it.
I'm not listening.
Don't tell me.
But he couldn't, he had to unload himself.
And I think that a bit like Gaza, they didn't destroy Gaza in a second because by doing it really slowly for months and months and months, they've been able to persuade millions of people to wish death on other people.
They've persuaded millions of people to justify murder in their minds.
They've filled people with rage and every kind of terrible emotion.
And similarly, why do you need millions of people to be thinking about despicable things being done to children?
It is so unholy.
And I think it makes you ill.
So it's not that I don't think that these people will all destroy themselves.
And it's not that I don't think you should protect those around you.
But this idea that you're somehow benefiting yourself or mankind by dwelling on horrors.
I saw it years ago in a green room.
These guys, they actually watched horror movies and they were all talking about it.
And then one of them said he didn't understand why he was watching stuff that was as horrific as the stuff that he was watching.
He was genuinely confused for a moment that he was watching stuff that was so utterly corrupting.
He didn't know why he was doing it or what he was doing.
And I know I bang the same drum all the time, but I think that if anything, it's more dangerous for people who used to be thinking, oh, who's going out with who?
You know, who's, is Jennifer Anniston in love with Brad Pitt or is he sleeping with Angelina Jody?
I think it's more unhealthy to think who's fiddling with who or who's sucking who's, you know, whatever.
Eating, I just think it's so bad for you that if you are, I know that you're on a mission to reveal these things, but that means you personally are going to have to be so much better armed physically and psychologically and spiritually than anybody else.
I don't know how you do it.
I think you'll have to you have to spend 12 hours praying.
Because I've been I've been wondering about this.
I've been looking at the Epstein revelations that are being no, no, no, no.
Well, I'll give you the lightly edited version.
What I mean is that all edited.
It's all edited.
You've also had the edited version.
So nobody, all of the people that think that they've not had all of the detail yet, that there's still more to come.
And everybody's obsessed with it.
Even if everybody's read it, I saw an old man in the cafe with his dog who I sometimes see with my children.
He wanted to talk to me about it.
My mother wants to talk to me about it.
Everyone's built up their own story about whether this means we're controlled by the Russian.
Okay, Anya, I'm not going to traumatize you.
I'm just going to talk about generalities here.
So if there is a lesson that the normie public, let's call them that, the normies, ought to be learning from the Epstein data leak or whatever,
is that all the authorities that you've trusted to you've sort of contracted out your life to these people, politicians to make laws and judges to administer justice and actors to entertain you and businessmen to, I suppose, bring the fruits of the capitalist system to your home and so on.
All these people don't just have feet of clay.
They are absolutely rotten to the core.
They're pollulating with maggots.
They are absolutely disgusting.
They do things that you could never imagine were possible outside horror movies and possibly not even in a horror movie would you expect such things.
And it's all come out and they are arrogant, untrustworthy.
They do terrible things to the most vulnerable people, i.e. children, etc., etc.
Now, you would think at this point that people with this new information, they would be going, wow, we've better do something about this.
There's going to have to be, we're going to have to completely rethink the way the world is run because the guys who are running into the moment, I now realize they exist.
It's not a conspiracy theory.
This is actually real.
This is real.
I could see the evidence now.
It's clear.
We've got to do something about it.
We cannot play their games anymore.
We need to live godly lives.
We need to restore the message of the Bible, I suppose.
I mean, they might all become Christian, but they might at least understand that the world is completely fallen and something needs to be done.
But none of this has happened at all.
Of course, it can't possibly happen, James, because the point of the revelations, just like the point of the revelations about the COVID vaccines or taking certain of the medications off the market or putting some back in, the purpose of these things is to make it look as if the system itself is self-correcting.
And the worst things are, the further away people wish to delegate.
I know I bang on always about the same things, but the way to fix things is to pick up the rubbish in your own street.
And the more corrupt the world looks and the more horrific these people are, the more desperate people are to delegate all of their own personal responsibility to agencies that are even further afield.
And it's a bit like this, this, I know I've got the same obsessions.
When I manage to write coherently about them, then I'll be able to let them go.
But this idea of non-violence that I believe is the central teaching of Christian theology, people cannot accept that I don't believe in violence and they always bring up children.
You wouldn't be violent to protect your children.
This is an absurd argument because I'm not suggesting when I say that violence is wrong, that I wouldn't behave badly in a situation.
But I think it's fascinating that people can't even accept in principle that they should not be violent.
And the fact that we always reach to the children and think only, oh, well, I'd have to be violent to protect a child.
Well, firstly, it wouldn't work.
It wouldn't work if I actually had to be violent to protect my child.
In what conditions could it be that I saved them in that way?
I might be able to save my child by blocking them from a car that was approaching or jumping in front of them if someone shot them with a gun or clinging onto them if someone tried to scoop them away.
But violence in the way that people imagine it and fantasize in their heads isn't a way that you could protect your child necessarily.
And I think that the greater the violence in society, the more cowardly people become.
Because really what they're saying is that their entire moral picture is only in existence because it's backed by force.
And I think that's why we've become so utterly weak.
We actually don't have any force in this country, really.
You're not even allowed to foxhunt openly.
Unless you have a license to go and cull some deer at the correct number or kill some badgers, there isn't really any way to unleash your forget letting go of your violent tendencies.
There's not even any way to really hone them in that way.
You know, you used to have two people that would fight and they would represent their entire nation.
I can't remember where it was.
You know, this idea that you have two.
Yes.
But the basically our whole system now, everything that we believe in, every war that's fought, everything is, we know our own capacity for violence.
And we're living under the threat constantly of war, of the Third World War, or the Cold War, or the horror of the Second World War.
And people cannot even finish the sentence in their own head that they should reject violence without thinking, but then I'll be killed.
Because really what they're thinking is the state is the only person that can protect me from all of these evil things that I'm so scared of.
But the state is the monster.
The state is the state is the monster.
And I think until people can people cannot see the state as the monster unless they can relinquish their attachment to the fact that they need that monster's force to protect them.
State as Monster00:15:13
They don't need that monster's force.
Does that mean you're you're you're a kind of Tolstoyan Christian?
You know this, yeah.
Yeah, so he really doesn't believe in anything about God, though, Tolstoy.
Well, do you know?
Um, well, I'm not talking about whether or not he believes in God, I'm talking about him rejecting violence, and he's he's correct, but but just very briefly, you I find it a problem that he doesn't he doesn't seem to believe in God.
Um, I think that he does believe in God, but there are there are problems with there are problems with our understanding of God, and they come to dualism, I think, and they come to force.
So You're supposed to come to God to solve my God problems.
You just make this problem, Jake.
You're supposed to come to God of your own free will.
That's all.
So, because people panic about this all the time, people, people, not God, I'm confident that God's relaxed about it.
People that believe in God want to hurry everyone else's journey along.
They're impatient.
They want everybody to be saved tomorrow.
And they are aware on some subliminal level that we are all connected and we are all one.
And if in the same way that if everybody is doing something terrible, it affects you.
It affects your children.
It affects your mood.
It affects everything.
So people are in a hurry to force people to believe in God, their God.
But I'm not.
I don't believe that you can force people.
And I don't believe there is any morality in doing so.
What?
Okay, so I might get that vibe from, say, evangelical Christians.
I suppose it's the clues in the name.
But I mean, I like the idea of people coming to God and discovering, you know, and experiencing the kind of things that we do.
But I'm not sort of going out there saying, yeah, come on, come on, God, now, more.
Do you think, am I uncharacteristic then in that case?
You think there's this faction out there that no, I just, I just think this it's not, I don't think that you have a God problem, James.
I just think that you have to suffer now, for no, I do have a god problem because, because every day I'm I'm, I'm wrestling with my conscience and and wrestling with all these complicated thoughts which would I think it'd be much easier if, if I had someone that could solve it for me, if I could sort of contract out my my, you do have some, you do have someone that will solve it for you.
God for me.
God yes yes, I well, I do get that I'm.
I'm very suspicious of people who say that one shouldn't be doing this.
They, they seem to think that that, that that this is sort of borderline gnostic, that that that one shouldn't have a sort of conversation with one's well, with god.
Yeah, why are you joking why?
I don't understand well, I don't know.
I think there are.
I think there are certain strands in Christianity which which would have it that you should, but there are strands in Christianity that you think that, think you should be ashamed of love, or that you shouldn't, you know, be in touch with your body or your Well, this is the problem.
This is my problem with Paul.
Tanya, I'm sorry, I've got to vent.
I really can't get around this thing.
I'm on my third reading of the, and I love Chronicle Better, I'm on my third reading of the New Testament because you can get through it quicker than the Old Testament.
So the cycle is different.
And I read the Gospels and I think, great, great, Jesus.
And you get all these stories.
And every time you read the Gospels, you get new stuff because there's lots of stuff that is quite complicated.
It's interesting.
And it's always sad at the end when he goes, he's approaching Jerusalem and you know he's going to die.
And then it gets better because he rises and all that.
And then you get to the end of John and you think, oh no, I've got to read Romans.
I've got to read.
No, actually, you've got Acts.
Acts is quite fun.
But then you get to the epistles and you get some really, really good stuff, like Ephesians 6, you know, put on the whole armor of God or whatever, and the principalities and powers.
But the stuff you've got to wade through.
And you're told that by a lot of Christians that all scripture is equal.
It's all inspired.
So whether it's a kind of weird bit of Leviticus or whether it's a really annoying bit of Paul, it's as good as the Sermon on the Mount.
And you're thinking, I don't buy this.
I really don't.
It's not possible.
You're not supposed to see it.
In my humble opinion, there are too many stumbling blocks and paradoxes for you to be able to accept that.
Because you're not supposed to, if you wish to think, you're not supposed to.
But carry on.
So, yes.
So I don't enjoy reading Paul.
And I kind of think he's he's well, I really don't like the way he's such a kind of killjoy.
And you kind of think, well, yeah, I get it, Paul, that you, you believe in celibacy and stuff.
But what about so I think that you have amazing ascetics and but I believe that the body is sacramental and I believe that union is sacred and I think that you can learn more from genuinely loving somebody than from anything else in life.
And I can't change what I believe to be true and I consider to be a lesson from God, by the way.
I don't know with you.
But whenever I get, whenever I have a go at Paul, I get rebuked for it by certain Christians on my Telegram group.
And I'm thinking, well, how do you know?
Who made this rule that Paul is the equal of Jesus?
The equal of the prophets.
Okay, he did some really interesting stuff.
He was great at getting out of prison.
He did some really cool stuff.
He was martyred.
I respect that.
But it doesn't mean that I have to kind of, even though when I did venerate the relics in the reliquary, a bit of Paul was in there.
And that's when I got transported in the Russian cathedral.
When I had my tear, a gift from God, when I was transported, but I don't know whether it was Paul's bones or somebody else's, because there was also a bit of kind of stone from Golgotha, and there were some Russian saints and stuff in the same relic.
It was a kind of supra reliquary with all sorts of I think you learn things that you need to know at different points in your life, and that sometimes the things you fear most you have to um they will come to you so that you work through them and and you realize that you didn't have to fear those things either.
I so I a weird thing happened that you've made me think of for this Paul thing, and this is um a secular version of the same thing.
So, my favorite my favorite story that I've read, I don't normally read fiction, as we all know, but I've I'm obsessed with the story Father Sergius by Tolstoy, and I was going to send it to my friend's father, who in the same vein as we were talking about stories, told me a story that was a comedy story.
I don't know how to do this without spoiling both stories.
What do I do, James?
I'm stuck.
I don't, I, I, I, I do not want to spoil it, just as you don't want to hear the Epstein details, I do not want to spoil it on Father Sergius, given it's your favourite story.
So, well, but so there was a right basically, if I had sent Father Sergius to this man after he told me this funny story that was completely unrelated, but had a similar climax, but for a totally different purpose, he would never be able to read my serious story without thinking of his funny story and laughing.
And I would never be able to listen to his funny story without thinking of my serious story and crying.
And I have been changed forever by the order in which I've heard those two stories, and so has he.
And sometimes it's just the way it happens in life.
You have your stories in one order, and somebody else has the same stories in a different order.
And it is therefore impossible for you to ever reconcile your worldviews because you don't, you haven't had the same experience.
And that's okay.
That's okay.
And it's not possible.
It's just not true that.
And Tolstoy, definitely back to your Paul thing.
Tolstoy definitely is conflicted by sex.
He killed people, Tolstoy, when he was a soldier.
And in his Confessions, which is the most extraordinary book, and I highly recommend it to everybody, he realizes that everything that he was praised and rewarded for is actually despicable and grotesque.
But he never manages to reconcile himself to some elements of the Christian teaching to which he turned so dramatically.
He never reconciled himself to sex.
That's why in loads of his stories, they just have to kill each other or kill themselves.
And he never reconciled himself to actual faith in anything non-materialistic.
And he never fully relinquished science, which is just a different manifestation of ego in flashier clothing.
So I don't think it matters if you can't reconcile yourself to certain things yet.
James, you're not perfect.
You're just a guy on a journey, aren't you?
Yes, I am.
And it's good.
Actually, you're very good corrective to my dogmatism, Tonya, because I had made this distinction between good Alan Watt and bad Alan Watts, because Alan Watts is part of the new age deception, blah, blah, blah.
But I think you're right.
You've solved this problem I have.
Well, I think a lot of Christians have, which is, okay, so we think we've chosen the way and it's the only way because it's God and all the other gods are kind of fake.
But at the same time, we all know people in the world who are not Christians, who are very, very good people, better people than us.
And we also know people who are not Christians who are possessed of great beneficial wisdom.
So it complicates matters, doesn't it?
You can't just go, yeah, but basically we're right and they're all wrong and they're going to burn in hell or unless they repent and the new age is evil.
This is like the rapture.
So this absurd animated AI image of Lot escaping from Sodom and Gomorrah.
If you really, I've been thinking a lot about this story, because if you want to call Sodom and Gomorrah the city of bells and whistles, what does his wife really do?
She's just too attached to what happens next.
That's why she turns back and she's basically just transfixed, isn't she?
The pillar of salt is just someone transfixed by the internet, just doom scrolling.
And people imagine, certainly I know people that think that the rapture is some sort of, there's an incredible guy, he's dead now.
He was a wonderful, fascinating preacher, Canadian French guy.
Anyway, he absolutely believed in the rapture, the idea that you would be scooped off the planet as if you're going to be, you know, some spaceship's going to come down and whisk you all away.
But I can't really see what that is apart from suicide.
If you can turn away from everything that you love and care for and immediately be to disappear to paradise, I don't really understand it.
And I so I've been thinking about it a lot.
And I think that the rapture, metaphorically anyway, is that when you realize that everything is ugly and not true, that you're taught is beautiful.
And I do think it's worse now.
I do think that there used to be much more beauty and that now it's being hidden in every way with everything that we're doing to our bodies and with all of the buildings that we're putting up besides and in front of churches and by the horror of art.
But I think that the rapture is just recognizing or being saved by the angels or being saved by God.
It's just recognizing that all the truth and goodness and beauty that was ever there is still there.
It's just not in the places that you're looking for it.
It's all there.
It's all there for you.
It's just not where you're being told to direct your attention.
And the moment that you understand that and you turn away, and I don't mean half turn away, so that you're half looking at it and half wishing that you had that success or had that following or had that face or had those tits, half wishing that you knew what was going on there.
I mean when you completely turn away from it, genuinely turn away from it, and you understand that you're here for your own purpose to grow and to love and to try and improve your understanding generously.
Genuinely Turning Away00:03:36
When you genuinely turn away from the bells and whistles, then you then that is the rapture, isn't it?
That is the separation from those people that you might love dearly and that are hugely important to you, but that you will leave behind to experience the truth.
And I don't mean materially leave behind, because obviously you still love who you love and you're there when you need to be.
But I mean spiritually relinquish the things that you had thought were important before in their entirety.
It's the beginning.
I don't think that's the end.
I think it's just the first step.
That's all.
Yeah.
So the rapture is metaphorical.
They're going to love you.
All the rapture files.
They're going to say, does he not realize this?
Let's say it's not.
Let's say it's not metaphor.
Let's say it's absolutely real and it's coming.
If it's absolutely real and it's coming, it still wouldn't harm anybody to turn away right now from the nonsense and prepare themselves for this escape.
I'm just saying you can start it today.
You don't even need to wait.
Can I tell you about something?
I can't think who else I could tell this story to.
I probably could tell it somebody else, but it kind of vaguely relates to Alan Watt.
Have you ever seen a film called The Apartment?
No, sorry.
It's a class.
Okay, so it was made in 1960 and it's a classic.
It's considered a comedy classic.
It was made by Billy Wilder.
He made it a year after some Like It Hot.
So he was hot and he made this film.
And it's one of those films that gets quoted at you.
Oh, what?
You haven't seen The Apartment?
Or do you remember that scene in The Apartment?
When?
Dot, dot, dot, dot.
Anyway, I watched it for the first time the other day.
And as with all films, as with almost all cultural products, actually, once the scales have fallen from your eyes, you realize the degree to which we are manipulated by our culture.
And it's not always an honest expression of things.
It's often a method used to control us, but particularly the entertainment industry and particularly Hollywood.
So Alan Watt says that he's talking about how you behave when you see through the veil, as it were, when you're aware.
See, I'm skirting around the word awake because I do hate the word awake.
And he says, you'll look at a film and you'll no longer be distracted by the plot and all the things that they want you to look at.
You'll look at what message is being given to you.
So the premise in The Apartment is that this character called Baxter, played by Jack Lemon, lives in this very nice rented brownstone apartment, very conveniently located in New York.
It's a really nice apartment.
You're wondering how he can afford it.
And he's a grunt on the floor of this insurance company.
Prop Telling Secrets00:03:51
Like battery chickens there at their desk and there are thousands of them.
And they all want to get on.
They all want to be to go up the corporate ladder, not to be a grunt.
They want to get their own little cubicle to promote it on the next floor.
They want to get the keys to the executive dining room.
And the Jack Lemon character gets on or pleases his bosses by giving them the keys to his apartment so that they can knock off their secretaries or their, they can have affairs in his apartment.
So he's got this complicated Rolodex system where he sort of sort of, oh, it's Tuesday.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Sounds like the green room of a comedy club, I know.
Right.
Oh, okay.
But anyway, carry on.
I was thinking, what was this film telling the you think about America in 1960?
It would have been a fairly innocent place.
James, I'm so sorry.
If I don't plug in my computer, it's going to go flat.
Then we'll lose this whole thing and you'll be frightfully cross at me.
So don't hold that thought.
But if I need to get the plug, otherwise I'm going to...
Yeah, yeah, do that.
I'm so bad at tuck.
Oh, it's balancing on the cliff this day.
Just go and do your thing.
Do your thing.
I will just go and get a thing while you're there.
I'm here.
I'm here.
I'm ready.
Hey, don't go off now.
Yes, no, this is a prop for what I'm about to tell you.
Oh, okay.
Fine.
I'm just staring at myself without you.
Oh, now you've gone.
I'm here.
I just don't want to lose myself while you're not there.
I couldn't find it.
I couldn't find the thing, but it doesn't matter.
I can use it.
I can describe it through the medium of spoken word.
This relates to my point about the apartment, which I'll come back to in a moment.
In the latest edition of The Spectator, which we get because I still write for it.
Don't have to justify yourself to me, James.
Yeah, but you know what?
Why Cohen Isn't So Great00:09:42
It's still, it's the mainstream media, and I do feel tainted by read.
And I'll explain why I feel tainted.
In the books section, and it was on the masthead as well.
It was whatever it's called, the bit above the masthead, where they're talking about the exciting articles in the magazine.
And it was built, Rowan Williams on Leonard Cohen.
And in the book section, they were reviewing some kind of dreary fest shrift or something about various essays on Leonard Cohen's work and stuff.
It was obviously a shitty book.
But the literary editor had clearly thought, what a wee.
He probably heard that Rowan Williams, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, was a Leonard Cohen fan and thought, wouldn't it be ticklesome to have a former Archbishop of Canterbury writing about something as modish as popular music and slightly edgy as Leonard Cohen?
And I was reading this dreary review where there was no critical grasp of the book, no real take on it.
And the book itself was obviously bad.
But more than that, he missed the fundamental problem with Leonard Cohen, which is that Leonard Cohen was a spy.
He was a member of the Illuminati.
He was working for Mossette.
He's working as an intelligence agency.
His entire life as a poet and later as a singer was a cover for him to infiltrate the culture and corrupt it.
He was an obituary of this, the sort of the Rothschild circles.
He sexually abused children.
He was a really James.
I don't want to hear it because I play lots of his music.
Yeah, but I don't think you should.
You can't.
I don't want to hear anything about children.
The thing is, Tanya, that Cohen came from a.
I think he talked about his heritage from a family of cantors and stuff and rabbis and things like that.
But on Cohen's level, they're all into the deeper cult.
So whenever you're listening to a Leonard Cohen song, you're actually listening to a kind of dark magic spell.
And it is being worked on your brain.
This, I suppose, is where James popped on your...
We're all lovely.
He was one of the few people that I could play and sing.
Yeah, he's just simple.
Yes.
And then I stopped singing any of his lyrics about years ago because I was worried.
That's when I started playing classical music on the piano instead of just thought it's safer, isn't it, to play Bach than possibly accidentally say any spells you don't understand or want.
Anyway, back to your review, James.
You've just really said it's sort of Lady Gargyle with intellectual pretensions.
I mean, they're both Satanists.
It's just that one has this sort of middle class, it's chin-stroking intellectual credibility, whereas the other one doesn't.
Or maybe people like appreciate Lady Girls.
To be fair, Lady Gargar is awful.
I saw Leonard Cohen in concert and he was fantastic.
Oh, yeah, and you'd have appreciated the ryeness and stuff.
My friend, the guy who gave me my job as a rock columnist, Tim Rostron, lovely man.
And I think Tim had interviewed Leonard Cohen and was a big fan.
And I had a girlfriend who was a son.
What I mean is that Sam Smith is disgusting.
Ed Sheeran is vile to listen to.
Lady Gargar is awful to listen to.
These people are Britney Spears is awful to listen to.
You hear about in Guantanamo Bay people having to listen to Britney Spears's torture and how people in the West laughed about it without realizing that they were being told, they were being told, you are being tortured listening to this shit and you don't even know and you're laughing and not realizing that you're laughing at yourself.
But back to your review.
So you read this review by Wren Williams and the Spectator that you write for, but that's fine.
I don't believe it.
What?
This whole oh, I know why.
And it's uploading.
Yeah, I suppose the sound's going to be rubbish because I'll tell you why.
I forgot to set up my well, there's no point doing it now.
For some reason, is it because we had guests or something in this room?
I had to unplug my computer and take it down.
Oh, I know why.
Ah, my annoying son, my stupid annoying son, said, Oh, if you want to watch a thing to review, you're going to have to do it on your computer, not mine.
So bring your computer downstairs.
And I hate doing this because it means unsetting up my office, you know, yeah, unsetting up my microphone.
No, I don't think I'll still be fine.
People that want to listen to us will struggle through.
Is yours on a microphone?
Is yours on your internal microphone?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Look, everyone, I'm sorry for the sound, but it's my annoying son's fault.
Anyway, the point I was the story I was going to get to is this: you and I were both conned into thinking that Leonard Cohen is a great thing because he's moody and he's great breakup music and famous blue raincoat and bird on the wa and he's grouchy and he's just, but he's kind of wry.
He's wry and he's amusing, he's sardonic and these are all great qualities and we love sardonic and wry and witty and slightly witty and and we love the fact that Alleluia is actually we don't Alleluious, I think most overrated song, but we think there's something kind of slightly magical about and it's dark magic.
Um, Paper Thin Hotel is one of my favorite songs.
Yeah, which one?
Chelsea, Paper Thin Hotel, Paper Thin Hotel.
It's about the Chelsea hotel, right?
Yeah um, it's about and you conned us into thinking that that kind of complete called this Chelsea Hotel was actually where, giving your head on an unmade bed and all this stuff, all this kind of slightly sordid stuff that we were encouraged to think is cool.
Yeah yeah, that's not the song.
Anyway, back to your review.
I know it's not the song we're talking about, but i'm saying that the same venue, it's still the same Chelsea hotel and I i've stayed there and it's actually nothing to write home about.
It's loveless, loveless it is.
It is it's, it's.
So going back to the um, the apartment, everyone talks about the it it's, it's.
It's meant to be part of your critical vocabulary.
It's one of those things you're meant to have seen.
If you haven't seen the apartment oh, you really should see the apartment.
It's Billy Wilder.
Billy Wilder's great um Jack Lemon oh, and it's got Shelly Mclean with her haircut in one of her earliest roles and she's brilliant.
All this stuff is kind of true, but it also misses the point.
The point of that film is it's showing, it's telling you about the rat race.
It's telling you, if you want to get on in the rat race schmuck, this is the deal you have to.
You have to betray your moral principles.
You have to pimp out your apartment to your bosses, because you're not going to get it on talent, you're not going to get it on hard work, you're going to get it on on satisfying their base desires.
And, by the way, everyone's having affairs.
You see, just like like four, four office bosses in this insurance company.
They're all having affairs and it's just, it's how the world is, and so on and so on.
So you are being in the guise of comedy, you are being fed occult magic, brainwashing and The things that we celebrate as classic movies, and this is a classic Billy Wilder, 1960, they've been doing this since forever.
And we've been enabling it by saying, oh, isn't it a great movie?
Oh, that script by whatever is called.
We allow our most talented writers and artists to give all of their creativity to a language that is corrupting people's memory.
So when you listen to any kind of conversation from the outside, as someone with none of these cultural markers in their vocabulary, you realize that people cannot distinguish between having lunch with friends and watching Richard Osmond.
Daydreaming and Reality00:03:27
Sorry, mummy.
Sorry, my mother's just obsessed with Richard Osmond.
She loves him more than me.
He sees her more often, but they can't distinguish between these cultural markers and their real life.
But everything that is of value, you will be rewarded for outside of this system.
And you'll love who you love and you'll live morally or, and by morally, I mean you'll either live in love or you'll live in fear.
And you'll either turn bad things into beautiful things or you'll turn beautiful things into ugly things.
And you'll do it from your soul.
You won't do it because you're bullied into it and it's better the devil you know.
It just won't happen like that.
The whole television thing is just escapism, really.
But I'm a complete daydreamer.
In the Philocalia, it says that daydreaming is a sin, James.
And I spend a solid 50% life dreaming.
Yeah.
Are you not recommending the Philokalia?
Oh, I always think it's, I love the Philocalia.
And I don't expect to be in harmony with an ascetic because I'm not vain enough to imagine I've spent 20 years dwelling in a cave contemplating my navel.
But sorry, that's that's I have spent 20 years contemplating my navel, but in the comfort of my homes.
I don't know.
I obviously think it's amazing, but I'm a daydreamer, and apparently that's a bad thing.
You may think you're a dreamer, but you're not the only one, is what you're saying.
I'm crossing your mouth, you tell me.
No, I know, but I'm just sad about this daydreaming thing.
I really like dreaming.
Well, you said, I think maybe you have to materialize it.
So I think it's all right to daydream, but you have to physically put something real in the actual world if you want to change things.
So you just need to plant a seed instead of in order to picture your garden grow, you also need to put some physical, actual seeds in so that you can shift the astral plane, maybe.
I don't know.
No, I don't.
The whole this whole, you know, this whole Christian dualist idea that you were talking about, where who was it?
I think it was actually Alan Watts that said this about how the fantasy of the saints basically escaping their corporeal body is also the technological fantasy of escaping your body into this make, you know, into the virtual reality world.
Yes, it's the same fantasy.
It's the same side.
And by the way, Philip Sherrard, the great Christian Orthodox thinker, he also says this.
He also says that the problems that we have created in nature and from our desire to control and by proxy destroy everything, we have to understand the roots of this in our Christian tradition.
Very interesting.
But we can't read it.
Goodbye Smoking, Hello EMF00:05:20
Because we've been talking for two hours and I've got to go to my friend's recital.
Should I read Philip Sherard?
Yes.
You should read absolutely Christianity and Eros and you should read The Sacred and Life and Art and you should read them today and they're life-changing.
In fact, I just read them both again.
Do you know what?
I would get when they turn up, I'm going to get such a ballocking from the wife because all I do is read Christian books and she finds it really annoying.
Well, she don't find these too annoying.
They're fascinating.
They're really fascinating.
Well, don't.
Well, sorry.
Then rip.
You're saying you have to hide what you read from your wife.
No, I don't.
I don't.
I just don't like the grief.
You know, because she said, can't you read something that's not Christian?
Well, this is very interesting.
And I think that you would benefit from it hugely.
And it will probably be very different to the other things that you've read.
And you can't stay reading Christian things, I'm afraid, because everything in our culture is either a reaction to Christianity or it is of it.
And they are the same thing.
So I'm going to go look them up now.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Because I haven't eaten.
Promote the show, James.
I'm only talking to you because we've got this big show in March and I want everybody to see.
It's the last one we do till December in London.
Tell everyone.
Tell everyone what you're promoting, what you're doing.
Yes, I'm here to promote.
I'm here to haul my clothes.
Your spiel.
You do your hard sell.
Now.
Alistair and I are doing a show in London at Top Secret Comedy on the 7th of March.
And it's our last one in London until Christmas.
We are doing some more around the country.
We're going to go back to Glasgow.
We're in Autonomy on Friday.
Are you doing Bath?
We are going to Bath.
Please come to Bath.
That's for the Comedy Festival.
We're doing Southampton again.
We're going to lots of places.
But this one in London, it's in our big room.
And it's on Saturday, the 7th of March, at 5 p.m.
And it will be really fun.
And we're not going to be in London again until Christmas.
So I would love it if that was super busy.
Please go, everyone.
Go listen to me.
Now listen to me, Harry.
Yes.
Go to go to Tanya's and Alistair's show at 5th of March.
On what day?
On Saturday, the 7th of March.
Saturday, the 7th of March.
Of March.
In London.
I think it's the last day of the hunting season in many, many packs.
Maybe the last day ever.
Thank you, Tanya.
That was good.
Interesting.
Do you know what I'm going to do now?
Yeah.
I've got no milk in the house, but I cannot be bothered to go and get some milk immediately.
I'm going to force myself to have, again, unfortunately, I've been banned from caffeine.
I'm going to have it decaffeinated, which would be really shit.
I'm going to make up for it.
I'm going to try and have a cigarette with it because I'm about to, because it's, you know, lentils.
Yeah, I was about to say, what are you giving up?
Yeah, what have you giving up?
I'm giving up my morning cigarette.
Well, I stopped smoking and I stopped everything.
And so nothing.
Yeah, everything.
Well, what do you mean, forever?
I've stopped smoking forever.
I'm never smoking again.
And I've um why would you do that really to your body because it wasn't suiting EMF?
Sorry, how are you going to protect yourself from EMF?
Tobacco protects you from EMF, yeah.
Well, I'm not, it's not protect, it's not good for me anymore.
Yeah, I'm not, um, I'm not doing it ever again, and I'm giving up complaining for Lent we might be in danger of becoming very, very boring if we become too saintly.
That's all I'm saying.
Well, I'm just I'm gonna have to have it.
I don't know.
I've been talking to God about this issue.
Um, about I worry about if I become too nice, not you know, not catty and stuff in my articles, I may destroy my artistic raison d'etre.
Anyway, Tanya, um, lovely talking to you.
Thank you for your batshit wisdom.
Um, and everyone keep watching my stuff and supporting me if you can.