Kris Millegan reveals his father’s CIA ties—from WWII intelligence under MacArthur to East Asia Analysis—while uncovering elite mind control programs like MKUltra, tracing roots to pre-CIA operations such as Bluebird. He links Skull and Bones (Yale) to opium trade profits, secret bloodlines, and psychological manipulation, including ClimateGate and generational disruptions via wars, drugs, and education. Epstein’s cloning research and Michael Rupert’s shift from CIA critiques to 9/11 conspiracies highlight elite infiltration of truth movements. Millegan warns younger generations against "easy money" traps, urging support for independent platforms like Substack to dismantle systemic control over time. [Automatically generated summary]
And I always say this, but I'm really excited about my special guest this week.
But before we meet him, let's have a word from one of our sponsors.
You might have noticed that the gold and silver prices have been on a tear recently.
Silver prices especially.
Silver's gone up like a rocket and gold has been doing pretty well too.
If you bought silver when I first started talking about it a few years ago, you would have quadrupled your investment by now.
If you bought gold, you'd certainly have doubled it.
And you're probably wondering, is it too late?
Can I still get into this market and make money?
Well, there are lots of reasons why you should have physical gold and silver as an insurance against the continued decline of fiat currency, the uncertainties in the conventional stock markets.
I would definitely, I mean, I'm not a financial advisor, I would definitely have some physical gold and silver.
And where do you buy this?
Well, I would go to the Pure Gold Company.
You can buy your gold and silver in the form of coins, for example, gold sovereigns or Britannias or Silver Britannias.
Or you can buy bars and you can either have it delivered to your home or you can have it stored for you in vaults in London or Switzerland or wherever you feel best suits your need.
The Pure Gold Company offers a buyback guarantee, fair prices without delay.
So if you have changed your mind at any moment, you can trade in your gold or silver.
You call their brokers to discuss your various options.
They can advise you on tax issues.
Will silver go up again?
Yes, probably.
Will it go down again?
Yes, probably.
But I would say you should have some silver and gold in some form, as long as it's solid silver and solid gold, not paper gold.
um welcome to the delling pod chris milligan um i like you already even though we've never met you have you you're giving off the kind of vibes that make me like you um well good are you are you somewhere cold well
You know, I'm out in Oregon, and it's early in the morning, and it's not too cold, but you look like you're in some place where it's cold.
Yeah, I'm going to try and adjust the volume.
You're sounding very, what's the word?
You know, you're hitting the levels where it goes noisy.
What's that called?
loud yeah yeah i i yeah something like that okay how's this is that better yeah that's better yeah yeah so okay the reason i'm in england right now i think probably we might have some snow coming at the time of recording but i'm like i'm dressed like this because i'm in a cold room because i don't heat my house in the day and i've got a cold and i'm feeling sorry for myself because i i've broken my finger
Dad's Conspiracy Theories00:14:23
while i was hunting yeah On a horse.
I think the horse was so excited that I caught my finger was in the neck strap.
And I think just the pull of the horse, he was a racehorse, and I couldn't really stop him.
And he just broke my finger.
But what I did, Chris, I didn't want to miss out on the excitement.
So I just dosed myself with alcohol and carried on hunting.
Well, I broke a finger one time.
I was a catcher, and we had a big farm boy throwing a baseball, and I dug it out of the dirt, and my bone was sticking out.
I take it to the coach, and he goes, put it underneath some water, kid.
That's how it was back in the day.
Chris, your father was in the CIA, right?
Yes, he got involved in intelligence as an 18-year-old kid as an exchange student to the University of Shanghai in 1936.
And then he went through he 1939, he'd graduated.
He was supposed to go to school in Switzerland in international relations.
And he got as far as Washington, D.C.
And, you know, there was something going on in Europe in 39.
And so he ended up in the basement of the Library of Congress under Archibald McLeish.
And they gave him a desk and they said, we want you to become an expert on the Philippines.
So that's what he started to do.
And then Wild Bill Donovan walked in and started an organization called Coordination of Information.
Dad was there.
And then that changed into OSS, and dad was there.
And then he got drafted.
And OSS said, great, we're going to put you into the military, into G2 military intelligence, and we're going to put you on MacArthur's staff because we do not trust MacArthur and Willoughby, his top aid.
And then he ended up upsetting MacArthur.
He was working a lot with the guerrillas, and he went into Manila with the guerrillas way before the American troops.
And he was helping the guerrillas set up their government, their diplomatic mission, and putting the collaborators in jail.
And when MacArthur finally made it to Manila, he had been raised in the Philippines.
And so a bunch of these collaborators were his childhood friends.
And he didn't like that.
And so he wanted to find out who was responsible.
And my dad was the highest American guy there.
And they said him.
And so MacArthur said, get rid of Milligan.
And so they moved my dad to be head of research and analysis for the invasion of Japan.
And they brought in somebody that had been both in OSS and G2 at the same time to take my dad's place.
And that was Ed Lansdale.
And then what my dad told me later on, he said he went through a couple of alphas and soon found himself in the CIA.
I was raised in Virginia mostly.
And he was branch chief head of all of East Asia Analysis Office.
And then he had to, they wanted somebody to talk to Sicarno.
And my dad wasn't your typical CIA guy.
He'd been born in Montana and raised in Oregon and Washington.
And so they needed somebody liberal to go talk to Sicarno.
And so I went with him as a little kid.
One of my first jobs was a CIA front.
And then he came back and he was just doing odd jobs.
and different things.
And then in 1956, he went back and did a report, part of it on Lansdale.
Lansdale was recalled.
And things really changed.
I mean, I was just a little kid, but we were living on this farm outside Fairfax.
And then all of a sudden, they put the farm up for sale.
It didn't sell.
And we moved to another little house there in Fairfax.
And then all of a sudden, my dad was made a vice president of a college in Tennessee.
And so, you know, I just, you know, little kid, I just moved with him.
And then the president of the college quit.
They asked my dad to be president.
He said no and quit and moved the whole family out to Oregon.
And later on, you know, I mean, the CIA had the only time I remember it mentioned is one time in Nashville.
I was talking with my older brother and older sister.
You know, I was like eight.
And my older brother says, I think dad's in the CIA.
And, you know, again, I'm eight years old.
You know, it doesn't mean a lot to me.
And I was into baseball.
And then growing up, we were watching a white paper, you know, on TV one time about the Vietnam War.
And my dad was saying stuff like, oh, well, we knew that and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And he asked me a question.
He says, well, what do you think of the Vietnam War?
And, you know, I was a teenager.
I gave him a flipped teenage answer.
I says, you got a sack of hand grenades and there's some rice patties and you go throw the hand grenades to wit for the good guys wearing the white hats.
I mean, I'd been raised on John Wayne in World War II.
You know, all my uncles were in it.
And he said we had to have a talk.
And I just went on with my life and went to college and, you know, ended up meeting a girl and getting her pregnant and other things like that.
And the day before my 20th birthday, I show up at the house and I figure, you know, we're going to have, you know, cake and ice cream and stuff like that.
And my dad says it's time to have that talk.
And there was this professor from Vanderbilt there, Dr. D.F. Fleming.
And my dad took me into what I called my, you know, my little brother's room.
And we all sit, there was two chairs in there and then the bed.
And, you know, I was sitting on a chair.
My dad was sitting on a chair.
The professor was sitting on the bed.
And my dad looks at me and he says, the Vietnam War is about drugs.
There's these secret societies behind it.
And I'm thinking, okay, dad's talking about the mafia.
This is 1969.
Okay.
And so then, and then dad says, and communism's all a sham.
These same secret societies are behind it.
It's all a big game.
Okay.
At that point in time, I think dad's nuts.
Okay.
I've been stuffed under the desk.
The Ruskies were going to bomb us.
You know, it just didn't compute.
Okay.
And then they start telling me all about my dad's intelligence career.
Okay.
And, you know, I'm still kind of thinking about this, you know, the Rusk communism of all the sham stuff, you know, but then, you know, they're talking, so I'm trying to listen.
And then they start talking about the Vietnam War and about they make this statement about how they are playing out a loose scenario in Vietnam.
Okay.
Which again doesn't compute at all.
Okay.
I mean, at this point in time, you know, they're trying to draft me, okay, to send me over there to kill people.
And I'm finding out that I had to kill them with rules, which didn't compute with me.
If I'm, you know, I'm 19, you're going to kill somebody, you're going to kill somebody.
But, you know, they tell you you got to kill them with rules, which doesn't compute.
And then I got my dad and this professor telling me that, you know, they are playing out a lose scenario in Vietnam.
And they explained that they had, when Eisenhower had come president, there had been this big worldwide assessment report done for him.
And they'd done part of the stuff about Southeast Asia.
And they were saying things like, you know, you don't, you know, back a Catholic government in a Buddhist country, among other things, and saying that, you know, we had worked with Ho Chi Minh and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And so then they start talking about psychological warfare and propaganda.
And my dad, in the middle of a sentence, just stopped speaking.
Okay.
Because it became very apparent that I had no idea what they were talking about.
I was completely lost.
Okay.
So, so, so, yes, my father was in the CIA.
And what he told me there, he said, you know, he put him soft in 57 and hard in 59 when we'd moved from, you know, when he quit being a college professor or president.
And I had talked with Peter Dale Scott about this because he was very concerned because the CIA had rules that they weren't supposed to be in academia.
And, you know, like my dad said, he left them soft in 57 to hard in 59 because I believe in Nashville at this college, he was basically working a lot with foreign students and different things and maybe looking for opportunities for, you know, intelligence, intelligence gathering, whatnot.
I don't know.
But then one thing that he told me about was that, see, he had become aware of the narcotics trafficking.
And there was, because of his position, there was no way that he would not know about it.
Okay.
And so they offered him a huge bribe, okay, a big real estate venture in the DC area.
They offered him parts of Seven Corners and Tyson's Corners.
And he turned them down.
And which when I finally understood that, made me very proud, okay, of my father and whatnot.
But what this did was it led me on a journey into CIA drugs.
And the first thing that I did, I mean, I like books.
Okay.
So he said he was in intelligence.
So I got all the books I could find about intelligence to understand how.
intelligence operates and whatnot.
And then a friend of mine, I was talking a little bit about my little research in the CIA drugs and some of the stuff my daddy said.
And he looks at me and he says, well, you're a conspiracy theorist.
And this was like in the early 70s.
And so I scratch my head and I say, well, what's a conspiracy theorist?
And so I take it on as an intellectual discipline.
Okay.
And before in college, I'd done two independent studies, I'd done an independent study on magic and mysticism because I, well, I liked comic books.
And next to the comic book rack was the paperbook rack.
And in the paperbook rack, they were having these books about Edgar Casey and Aleister Crowley.
And I thought that they were very interesting, interesting people.
And so I took on conspiracy theory as an intellectual discipline.
And I'm very glad I did because it's a very, very wide discipline.
I mean, there's lots of things involved in it.
And then the first thing I learned was that a conspiracy theory doesn't have to be true to be effective.
Okay.
Because what I, you know, again, like I say, I like books.
I like reading.
And so I went after this guy told me I was a conspiracy theorist, I went to every bookstore I could find, you know, feminist, religious, you know, whatever.
And I said, take me to a conspiracy section.
And all of them had at least one book.
Conspiracy Corner00:15:57
Okay.
And so I gather these books and I'm reading them.
And after a while, I say, wait a minute.
I've got a book here that blames it all on the Mormons.
I got a book that blames it all on the Masons.
I got a book that blames it all on the Jews.
I got a book that blames it all on the Roman Catholics.
I got a book that blames it all on the secular humanists.
So I said, well, these are kind of formula books.
Okay.
I don't like you.
You don't like me.
Let's throw some rocks back and forth.
Okay.
And again, to create dissension.
And, you know, because you read the books about, you know, intelligence and then you get into books about, you know, propaganda and psychological warfare.
And then when you're looking at CIA drugs, you've got CIA drugs, you know, the narcotics importation.
And then you have what I call CI drugs, the dark side, the MK Ultra stuff, which, you know, you can trace way before the CIA ever ever existed.
Okay.
And it's like Operation Bluebird.
Why did they call it Operation Bluebird?
It was because of Metrolink's play.
Okay.
Because mind control comes from, you know, you've got trance.
Okay.
And that's the most important thing.
And everybody gets into a trance differently.
Some people go really deep.
Everybody's different on trance.
And then you have ritual and role playing and trauma.
And those are your main components of mind control.
So it, you know, there's just a lot of things to look at when you're basically trying to figure out how the world really works.
And what I, you know, my dad said, you know, there's these secret societies behind it.
It's all a big game.
Okay.
And when I started doing my research, you know, I could, you know, find the books, intelligence and the drug running and you end up in bank, old books about banking and all that kind of stuff.
And the hardest thing for me to find was stuff about secret societies.
And I finally, I came across Professor Anthony Sutton's book, America's Secret Establishment, an introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones in 1988.
He'd put it out in 1986.
And, you know, probably because George H.W. Bush was running for president.
So it became a bit of a topic.
And because, I mean, it was funny.
Anthony, you know, started researching it because he had been working at the Hoover Institute at Stanford.
And they'd hired him to write this three-volume series about Western technology and Russian technology.
And he was all ready to print his third volume.
And they said, oh, no, we don't want you to print that right now.
And Anthony couldn't understand that because, I mean, he was a British citizen and he'd been a naturalized American, you know, so and he just didn't understand that.
And he went around him and printed a book called National Suicide because what his third volume showed was that the Russians were backing the North Vietnamese.
It wasn't the Chinese.
I mean, the Chinese wouldn't even let some of the trains come from Russia with war material through China to North Vietnam.
And a bunch of the war material that was being used to foment that war was being supplied by factories that were, some of them were ordered through Italy, but there was actually American engineers there and blah, blah, blah.
So it was showing that this war was, you know, there was people that were, like my daddy said, they were playing out a war to lose.
Okay.
And so he started writing these Wall Street books, Wall Street and Hitler, Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution and Wall Street and FDR.
And he put those out there and somebody was reading them and this lady whose father and grandfather were both members of the Order of Skull and Bones, Charlotte, sent Anthony membership lists of the Order of Skull and Bones.
And he received, he'd gotten him, he had to send him right back.
So he put him in a box underneath his desk and he told me he was kicking that box and he pulled it out one day and looked at it and he said, oh, well, these were the people that were I was writing about in my Wall Street books.
And so that led him into his research.
And he was trying to talk about it.
And I mean, he even got a letter back from George W. Bush says, no, no, I'm not a member of any sorted secret society and blah, blah, blah, blah.
And so, you know, I came across that book and I said, oh, maybe my daddy's not nuts.
Okay.
And because I just couldn't get over that thing that, you know, communism is all a sham.
These same secret societies are behind it.
It's all a big game.
Okay.
And, you know, then I've come to realize that basically you have a secret societal system up here.
Your next level is a solid level is sovereign countries.
Okay.
And then in between that, we have intelligence, criminal gangs, you know, fraternal organizations, religious organizations that are able to, you know, use their things to go into the sovereign countries to get them into the position that the secret societies want them to.
I mean, and it's not always they click a lever and it happens, but you know, that's a basic model.
And how the secret societies have been running the world, it's a leviathan of three levels, and each level has three parts.
The top level is mining, metal, and money.
And you think about it, and you know, if you control the mining where the metal comes from that the money is based on, you're in a good position, right?
And, you know, and so what I looked at, you know, Skull and Bones, they got a lot of gold mining engineers there.
And I had an author who could affect that.
He was a mining engineer.
His daddy was a mining engineer.
His granddaddy was a mining engineer.
His great-granddaddy was a 49er in California, part of the Comstock Load and actual president of the Central Pacific.
So, I mean, this and he came at me with this book about gold mining real early on when I had started trying day.
And I told him, I says, I don't think I can publish that.
I mean, I know nothing about gold mining.
And, you know, it's a big, big book.
And so he went, he got it published in Poland.
And then he came back at me later on with a smaller book about his great aunt Jane Stanford of Stanford University and how she'd been murdered.
And so this bit of a cabal could take it over.
And I said, okay, we can do that one.
And he had the backing of a Stanford professor.
And this was called Calling All Angels.
And so we got it out.
He was dead in seven days.
Okay.
He got run over by a hit and run lorry in London.
Okay.
And I mean, this guy was, you know, his lawyer was William Pepper, the same lawyer for Martin Luther King and different things.
But, you know, that kind of hard to sell a book when the author is not around and to, you know, to promote it and different things.
Because again, I'm on the edges of publishing.
So you got mining, metal, and money.
And then in the middle, you've got a very active level.
And this is drugs, guns, and oil.
And Skull and Bones was started by an opium smuggler and a politician, okay, William Huntington Russell of Russell and Company and Alonzo Taft, okay?
And drugs creates this, you know, opium has been one of the largest commodities on the planet since the 1800s, okay, and it makes huge amounts of money.
Okay, and when it's illegal, they can sell it for six, eight times of what it's worth.
And so it gives them huge amounts of money, which allows them then to corrupt things.
And then arms, you know, well, what do you do with arms?
Well, you make money and you create conflict and coercion and all kinds of BS.
And then oil.
Okay.
I mean, it was the people from Skull and Bones, okay, that sent Drake to Pennsylvania to do the first oil well.
And the reason we go to the oil store is because they own it.
Okay.
So this is a very active level, creates a lot of capital and allows them to control a lot of things.
And then where this meets the road, it's media, they got to control the narrative, you know.
And then you got music slash movies.
They got to control the culture as much as they can or the culture will bite them in the butt, excuse my language.
And then quote unquote magic is the last one.
Okay.
Their ability to hoodwink us to make us think something else is going on.
Okay.
And then their preponderance on using mass trauma rituals to keep us in line.
Okay.
The JFK assassination at its core and the 9-11 were mass trauma rituals.
Where did they learn that?
That technique?
Well, it's grown up through a long time.
I mean, it's like, like I say, Operation Bluebird, okay, was one of the mind control operations.
Why did they call it that?
Because Metrolink's play.
Okay, because role-playing, if you look at Metrolink's play, you have all kinds of crazy characters.
I mean, you got milk, water, you got the luxury of being a slave, the luxury of the people.
What's pages of these just strange characters?
Okay.
What is Metrolink's play?
Well, that has to do with the role-playing in mind control.
And then where was Metrolink's play first put on?
It was first put on 1906 in Moscow, the same place where he had Pavlov and the dogs.
Okay.
And then, see, the secret societal level, you might be a secret society from Germany,
but you're going to go ahead and play the German people and get them into a narrative that's counter to what would be good for Germany because it helps with the overall narrative that they're trying to use to quote unquote control things here.
And now, where did they learn these things?
It comes out of centuries of elite control of using mechanisms to buffalo the population.
One thing, you know, when I look at it very hard, you have you have like priests, okay?
Priests were able to figure out very early on, okay.
I make some smoke come out of that hole over there on the side of the hill, okay?
These people going to, you know, they're going to bring me food, they're going to even, you know, give me shelter, bring me clothes, even bring me their children.
Okay, so the priests are using their knowledge to buffalo the people to get what they want, right?
Okay, then you have pirates, okay?
If you were a seafaring civilization and you were going to the landlubbers, your knowledge was superior to the landlubbers that again, you use your knowledge to buffalo those people to get what you want.
Okay, same with kind of politicians.
Okay, so you have this group of people that have grown up, you know, through time, have sophisticated their techniques of control, okay,
through, oh, well, you don't have a, I mean, the Sumerians, you know, in those temples, they had all these big things of telling that the people how much money they owed, okay, and different things.
And so, again, through time, the elites have created these methods of control.
So it's, and, and, you know, and it's very, I've been doing a roundtable with the Fitzgerald family of John Fitzgerald Kennett.
And one thing that we've discovered there is that, you know, there were ducks that were put in a row before the Kennedy was even elected, okay, because there's this big overarching narrative and quasi-mystical control.
There's Alice Bailey, she wrote a book, she's out of the theosophy, and she wrote a book called Externalization of the Hierarchy in the 20s and came out through the Lucifer Press.
Interlocking Circles of Power00:14:13
And she talks about how this hierarchy needs to be in place by 2025.
Okay.
And that's how come we've had, you know, these, you know, Trump and Musk and the technate and, you know, a new world order through, you know, they kept telling us that the left was going to take all our guns and they're going to make us all commies and blah, But, you know, they're trying to impose control through political means.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You spend a lot of time down the rabbit hole.
Yeah.
But I was thinking.
So let's just give you an example.
The guy Russell, who found who co-founded Skull and Bones.
What was his first name?
William Huntington Russell.
Okay.
So William Huntington Russell.
Presumably he was a relative of the Russells in England, the Earl of Bedford.
Could be.
I really haven't looked at that, but I wouldn't be, you know, I'm sure they have some relation somewhere.
I suppose what I'm saying is that the world's problems did not begin in 1833 with the foundation of Skull and Bones.
So people like Russell, who I mean, I was fascinated to read in your book about the origins of Skull and Bones and about the opium trade and how Russell was the I mean, obviously the bulk of the opium trade was carried out by the British, Jardine Matheson, but Russell had the brunt of the American trade, so he made his fortune out of opium trading.
But his bloodline, let's say, must have gone way back.
I mean, his family must have been doing evil way before he made his money as an opium trader.
Well, you know, could be.
I mean, you know, I, you know, I don't really, you know, I don't know if I consider these people evil.
I consider them doing bad things, okay, that lead to evil outcomes.
Right.
Okay.
But, you know, I mean, that's just semantics.
But yes, there is a, you know, a question of, you know, these different bloodlines and different things and, you know, having, again, I mean, I've had this debate with people about whether, you know, now, are the secret societies a manifestation of the elite control, okay?
Or, you know, what is their relationship?
Are we just dealing with, you know, a class warfare?
Okay.
Or are we dealing with the imposition of control from above?
And so, you know, how does that happen?
I mean, are people, you know, meeting in secret around a candle and saying, okay, we're going to do this?
Or are they doing it through, you might almost say mechanical means and economic means of imposing this control?
Because now, one thing, when you look at the secret societal side, one thing that the secret societies have talked about is that they have a ledger, several ledgers, okay, that go back hundreds of years, okay, that track economic, political, astrological, and different things.
So you have a real track record of saying, okay, well, if we do this, blah, this is going to happen.
We did a book by a gentleman out of Belgium.
And what they found there, it's based on a state police report in Belgium where they put somebody into one of these secret societies and he rose on up and rose on up.
And what he found out at the top, okay, was there was a whole bunch of organizations all called the Order.
But you had different flavors.
You had Muslim ones, Jewish ones, Christian ones, gay ones, different flavors up there.
And then, you know, I mean, how would these secret societies operate?
Well, you know, I call them circles and say you've got a circle over here and you've got a circle over here.
Well, well, through time, you know, and this circle might have been created as an opposition to this religion over here, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But they come aware of each other.
Okay.
And they say, okay, what are we going to do?
You know, we got to fight each other or who is our common enemy?
Our common enemy is the people.
Global warming is a massive con.
There is no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem that is going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually, the first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the Chinese climate change scam got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed in a scandal that I helped christen ClimateGate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us.
We've got to act now.
I rumbled their scam.
I then asked the question: okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands out.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk forward slash shop.
You'll probably find that one.
Just go to my website and look for it, jamesdellingpole.co.uk.
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring around all those people who are still persuaded that, oh, it's a disaster.
We must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease Mother Diet.
There we go.
It's a scam.
Okay, you had, you know, Muslim ones, you know, Jewish ones, Christian ones, gay ones, you know, different flavors up there.
And then, you know, I mean, how would these secret societies operate?
Well, you know, I call them circles.
And say you've got a circle over here and you've got a circle over here.
Well, through time, you know, and this circle might have been created as an opposition to this religion over here, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But they come aware of each other.
Okay.
And they say, okay, what are we going to do?
You know, we got to fight each other or who is our common enemy?
Our common enemy is the people.
Okay.
And so these circles then say, well, how am I going to try?
So they say, well, okay, I'm going to have some people from your circle join my circle, you know, for whenever we get together and different things.
Okay.
So you're going to have, you're going to have interlocking circles.
And then you're generally going to have, say, quote unquote, a council above that.
Okay, type thing.
And then you're going to have, you know, people that are brought in that are going to try and use some of the techniques that they're using for their own personal gain and other things like that.
So, you know, it gets a little bit messy.
Okay.
But basically, what you can track down is the secret society is basically based in Europe with some side partners in the Orient.
Okay.
Because just as these people in the West were getting very rich from selling opium and other things, there was people in the Orient that were also getting rich.
And I mean, you think there's any secret societies in China?
Okay.
And so, you know, again, it gets down to the question of how does the world really work?
Okay.
Is it, you know, what we've been trying to do here in the United States of government of and buying for the people?
Okay.
And, you know, we also, we just did a book recently called Two World Wars and Hitler.
I love it.
Isn't that a great book?
It's a fantastic.
I keep wanting to get the authors on this podcast.
Doesn't that be good?
Yes, yes, yes.
We can work to get that done.
But, you know, because, again, you know, I wrote lots of books on banking and stuff, and I've read lots of books on the world and wars and Hitler and whatnot.
But that book just really puts it together into a way that we can understand the perfidity, okay, that these elite classes are doing.
You know, I mean, it's basically two Scottish scientists, you know, taking on British historians.
Okay.
And, you know, because historians construct.
Okay.
Historians construct their history from documents and different things.
And scientists, you know, they, well, does this really work out?
I mean, is the thesis correct?
And so I really enjoyed putting that book together and enjoyed reading it.
And I think it's a great book.
Has it sold well?
It is doing well.
I mean, it isn't, you know, smashing the doors down, but it's doing well and steady.
I mean, you know, I mean, the whole media landscape, you know, I mean, we're in a period of change.
We as a people all together have a fail-safe device so we just don't go running off the cliffs, okay?
And humanity's gone.
Okay.
And the first fail-safe device is basically known to us as a dialectic.
Okay.
And I say some things that I know are true about secret societies, intelligence agencies, and drug running.
Okay.
And then I find somebody that I know is a spook, okay, that says stuff a little, he says some of the same stuff, but put some lies in there, okay?
Makes it more outrageous because by controlling the extremes, you control the middle.
Okay, so that's why you've got all these wild things out on the ends, okay?
It's part of a control mechanism.
But the next fail-safe device that we have is the cycle of generations.
Okay, there's a very good book called Generations, a History of America's Future.
Okay, and these are the same people that put out the book Forth Turning.
Okay, because you basically you have an idealistic group and then you have a reactive group and then you have a civics group and then you have a group that recombines it all and then you start all over again.
Okay, well in this book, and you know, and this moves history forward.
In this book, they show how the kids that were teens and preteens in the 1860s, okay, didn't cohere as a generation.
They, you know, some of them joined the generation after, some of them joined the generation before, some of them just went off in the woods and did weird stuff.
Okay.
And so why did that happen?
Well, it happened because of war, the assassination of a president, and drugs, okay, opium, the soldier's disease.
War, Assassination, Drugs00:10:04
Okay.
Oh, what was opium a problem in the West as well?
Yes, especially, you know, after the soldiers came home and they were affirmed and different things.
And so and so what this does is you have a four-cycle engine that's only running on three cycles and it makes our polity less strong and it allows for people in the shadows to come in and affect it.
Okay.
And so one of the first things Skull and Bones did was to take over the education system.
But then because of the Second Opium War, when opium became legal, okay, and these smugglers lost their cash cow.
Okay.
I mean, they developed the opium clipper going up and down the coast and everything.
And so after the Second Opium War, it took a little while, people to figure out, wait a minute, I don't need you smugglers.
Hey, India, send me a boatload.
You know, I'll pay the duty.
This is when the Sassoons started to make their money.
Okay.
So what did the quote-unquote powers of B do?
Okay.
Well, they fomented the Spanish-American War, okay, through false flag and yellow journalism.
Okay.
And, well, it's a bit of a story, but Teddy Roosevelt was under Secretary of Navy.
Okay.
And the Secretary of Navy had gout, and he went home early one day.
And Teddy stepped up to the desk and sent off some missives.
And Secretary of Navy came back and said, Teddy, what did you do?
And he never left early again.
And so they got, you know, remember the Maine, the Maine blew up and they got war declared.
Well, we didn't go to Cuba right away.
I mean, Teddy got to quit his job and go get some of his friends and get together a thing and run up San Juan Hill.
But we took the Philippines right away.
That's what Teddy had done.
He'd sent a missive off to Perry and says, go down to Manila.
Okay.
And why that?
Because Manila is the oldest western port in the Far East.
Okay.
And these smugglers, you know, during the day, they didn't call themselves smugglers.
They were China traders.
But they always had a back office in Manila.
And so they sent out Arthur MacArthur as the first military governor and do a horrific war there.
Mark Twain got himself a lot of trouble talking about it.
We raped and pillaged and did all kinds of terrible things.
And then They sent out William Howard Taft, a son of the founder of Skull and Bones and a member of the Order of Skull and Bones to the Philippines.
And McKinley asked him to be in the Supreme Court and he said no.
Roosevelt became president.
And Roosevelt's were heavily involved in the drug trade.
They were ship captains and owned ships.
And actually Delano, Warren Delano, Franklin's grandfather, was the chief factor for Russell and Company for 20 years in Canton and actually came back, lost money, lost his fortune in a panic, went back and made another fortune.
And so they this with this oh okay, so so so then Taft finally Roosevelt asked Taft to be on the Supreme Court and Taft said no.
And then Roosevelt asked him to be Secretary of War and he said, okay, my daddy been Secretary of War.
I'll be Secretary of War.
And he came back and you look at the historical record, what did he do?
He made opium illegal for the first time in modern Asia in the Philippines, which means you need smugglers again.
And then he started the Hague and the Shanghai Convention, which gave us a prohibition of cannabis, coca, and opium.
Okay, again, which allows people in the shadows to sell plants for more than gold.
And some of these plants in the right places, you can grow three times a year.
It gives them this.
So the prohibition of drugs was essentially so that the drugs traders could make a bigger profit.
Yep.
And it gives them some quote-unquote social control mechanisms through police and things like that.
So before we go on, can I just pause you?
Have we got time to have you got time to give me a sort of brief overview on the Vietnam War and why it was about drugs?
Because I understood that the French, and it was Indochina, the French and the Corsican Mafia basically controlled the drugs trade.
And then America moved in basically to take over the heroin trade.
Is that right?
That's a lot of it.
That and some geopolitical reasons.
But one of the main reasons was the drug.
I mean, you could follow the American military around.
Okay.
You know, we took the Golden Triangle.
I mean, it was very interesting reading about the drug trade because a lot of the legitimate information stopped in the 1930s.
Okay.
But the Balkans were always generally number three, three or four supplier of opium.
Okay.
And so, you know, we went there and then, you know, we went, of course, to the Golden Crescent, okay, Afghanistan and whatnot to influence that drug trade.
So, and again, one thing that we find is that just like all the mafia found out that if you had a house of ill repute and you had some girls in there, if you left the same girls in there over and over, the trade went down, so you had to move the girls around.
Well, they moved the drug trade around too, okay, to different points.
But then to go back to the cycle of generations, okay, the powers that be tried again, okay, because they were very successful in that, you know, the people in the 1860s, the teens and preteens, and then being able to affect our future.
Because, you know, once they did the Spanish-American War, okay, they got their hooks very much into the U.S. government.
They were able then to take us to, well, let's get them into an income tax.
Oh, and then let's get them into fake money.
Oh, and then what are we going to do?
Well, you need to get them into debt.
So you have World War I, then you have World War II.
And then you have every 20 years, okay, you have a war.
So it's, what did your daddy do in the war, son?
So they're, you know, creating this type of thing.
And so it just continues to go on.
So they were looking at the kids that were going to be teens and preteens in the 1960s.
Okay.
And again, this was going to be an idealistic group.
So they wanted the kids that were teens and preteens in the 1960s to not cohere, to not come together as a generation again.
And you can trace this operation.
And they had to have three things in place by 1950 to do this.
They had to have the modern education system.
And this was brought to us directly through the Masons.
Okay.
And then they had to have a nascent drug culture.
And then they had to have television.
Okay.
Television, not just television, but television that goes at 60 cycles a second.
There's a little flicker in there.
You read any book about hypnosis, it'll tell you that a 60-second flicker will put you into a trance.
Okay.
So they targeted us teens and preteens in the 1960s because they didn't want us to cohere.
But we did cohere.
We cohered as hippies around a joint being smoked around in a circle with a little bit of LSD thrown in.
Okay.
Because with LSD, yeah, you can make people wear white sheets and you can disrupt, but you can't control people like you can with opium.
I mean, opium has a very simple, you know, here, kid, you want some?
Oh, you want some more?
Oh, how about your friends?
Okay.
I mean, it has a very simple dynamic.
Okay.
But, and then, so what then?
What came out of the hippies?
History Channel had to do a big two-hour special.
They said, what came out of the hippies was the personal computer and the internet.
Okay.
And those are the tools that all of us are using to fight the corruption of people using secrecy to lie, cheat, and steal.
Okay.
Because the personal computer allows me to be a publisher.
Okay.
And the internet allows me to tell people about it.
Okay.
Exposing Perfidity00:04:41
So that's the dynamic.
And now we have AI.
Okay.
And, you know, AI isn't evil in itself.
It's just a thing, just like anything.
It depends on what people do with it.
Yeah.
So does that mean you're sounding almost optimistic?
Are you saying, sorry.
But what you seem to be saying is that despite the best played land, the best laid plans of these people who aren't evil but do evil, They founder on the rocks of, I don't know, human nature that we have something within us which is resistant to these schemes.
Yes, yes.
I'm very hopeful.
I think that, you know, again, you know, the book Forth Turning, okay, by these same people that did generations is very, very interesting.
And what basically what Forth Turning says is after you have so many of these, you know, generational movements, you come to a place where there's a paradigm shift.
Okay.
And the people that, you know, it's hard to run in place during a paradigm shift.
Okay.
Things things are going to change.
Okay.
So the quote-unquote powers that be are trying every darn game that they can, okay, so that once this paradigm shift, you know, continues to happen, that they'll be it still in control.
Okay.
And I'm really hopeful that I think that the lengths, okay, and the lies, you know, and the buffaloing that they're having to do, okay, is really exposing themselves, exposing their perfidity.
And I truly, you know, I mean, right now, you've got you could have a goather in Kenya, you know, watching actually this on his iPhone.
Okay, so, so, so I like that goat herder.
I respect that.
Hey, a big shout out to you, Kenyan goatherder or Maasai cattle farmer, whatever you are.
Right, right.
So, so, you know, we've got, we definitely have the opportunity, okay, to have a wonderful change here towards government oven buying for the people for the whole.
I mean, we do all live on just one planet, don't we?
I mean, we've had things go up there and look back down at it so we know that we're just one planet.
Okay, I don't believe in all the other planets, if that's what you're if that's what you're asking me.
I don't believe in, I don't believe in outer space, it's just bullshit.
Well, okay.
Well, there's there's been things floating around out there for for quite a while, but you know, yeah, so big believers.
Yeah, yeah, so, so, you know, I, yeah, I am very hopeful because I do think that you know, um, there is, yeah, I really think that there's enough information out there that we can, you know, figure out who's uh quote unquote lying to us and who has our best uh interest, you know.
And uh, well, do you think anyone does?
Do you think there are any good guys out there?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, apart from us, I mean, I mean, at the senior level, uh, yes, yes, yes, I, I, I, I, yes, I do believe so because I have gotten uh help out of the shadows, okay, yeah, yeah, from the Illuminati.
Well, you know, from uh early on, you know, we were talking, you know, uh, doing books about CIA drugs and different things, and and and um We would be talking to like old spooks and military people, okay?
Wrong Trainees00:09:37
Because a lot of times these people wouldn't figure out what they were doing for you know 10, 20 years, okay, because it was very compartmentalized, okay.
And once they figure out what they're doing, you know, and a lot of them didn't like it when they figured it out.
And so I know that, you know, there were people that, you know, I mean, I had somebody try to stop a book at the printer.
And these guys told these people, listen, these guys are just writing books.
Okay.
You know, we got some stories we could really tell.
Just leave these people alone.
Okay.
And I got, you know, I got communicated.
Matter of fact, I met with a gentleman who was a, what do you call them?
SEAL team trainer.
Okay.
And they were getting very, very upset.
This is probably, oh, not quite 10 years ago, but they were getting very upset because they were seeing how they were being used and abused.
Okay.
And they didn't play bull.
Well, they were trying to demand, you know, changes and different things.
And, you know, I mean, this one guy told me about, he said, yeah, we got this gun, you know, it'll sniper rifle.
It'll shoot a mile away, accurate.
And there's a camera in the head of the bullet.
Okay.
So the people back wherever can watch the action happen.
Okay.
So, you know, there's a lot of moving parts that the quote-unquote powers that be have got to keep in place to keep their stuff going.
And, you know, I'm a big fan of sovereign nations.
I'm a big fan of sovereign money.
Okay.
And there's a lot of things that, you know, they're like COVID.
Yeah, there was a lot of hinky things done with COVID, but it basically came out of bio warfare.
And they used the COVID to, again, divide and radicalize people along wrong lines.
Okay.
From what I've looked at.
What do you mean by along the wrong lines?
Well, public health is a real thing.
Okay.
Pandemics are a real thing.
Okay.
And, you know, if what I've learned through intelligence people is that it basically started with a factory that was blew up in Russia in September.
Okay.
And this was a bioweapon that was basically mostly designed against Oriental folk.
And that's one reason why Russia, why China went really nuts on it.
And see, and it didn't come back to Russia until somebody from there went to Italy and came back.
And that's when you had all the ambulances running around Moscow and different things.
But it's just, It was used as a psychological warfare weapon a lot, okay, to create havoc and to divide the population.
I mean, that wouldn't be, certainly wouldn't be my take or the take of a lot of my listeners and viewers, I suspect.
I mean, I think yeah, I understand that.
I understand that.
And I've I've gotten a lot of flack from not jumping on the quote-unquote plandemic bus.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
But, you know, I mean, I've been in conspiracy theory land for, Lord have mercy, over 50 years.
Okay.
And I've seen a lot of buses come and go.
Okay.
And, you know, there's a lot of reasons why people use conspiracy theory.
Okay.
To radicalize and to as divisive factors.
And, you know, it's a lot of times fighting an uphill battle because, you know, people are going to believe what they're going to believe, you know, and whatnot.
They are.
Well, I was going to ask you, I mean, you cited somebody who's on a SEAL team, but I wasn't really talking about that level.
I mean, SEAL teams, okay, however well trained they are, they're still basically grunts of the elites.
They're not the powers that be.
I suppose what I'm talking about is, is there anyone on the level of Peter Thiel, bad guy?
Elon Musk, bad guy.
Trump.
Fascist internationale.
They basically represent the fascist internationale.
Yeah.
I mean, all these public figures, I mean, Jeffrey Epstein, they're all, there's no good guys among them.
Name me somebody.
Well, I suppose you can't name them because they probably get off, but is there anyone at that level?
At the Illuminati level, are they goodie Illuminatis or not?
Surely not.
You know, I don't know.
I mean, they don't invite me to their meetings.
Okay.
But, you know, I mean, they use a lot of blackmail.
Okay.
So if they're using a lot of blackmail, that means that they have a bunch of unwilling participants.
Okay.
I mean, you know, I mean, there's situations where I see where, you know, some of the rules for some secret societies, if you want to join them, you have to give them blackmailable material so that you can, you know, go to their parties.
Okay.
So I don't know.
I mean, that's a yeah, but I do think that there's good people in the shadows too.
I do.
I don't think everybody is a downright evil acting person.
I mean, it's like, you know, you talk to people that are assassins, okay, or involved with killing people.
And they talk about, you know, your first one's hard.
Your second one gets easier.
Your third, you know.
So, you know, how does a person acclimatize themselves to evil?
How does a person, you know, sit around and watch a snuff film?
Okay.
I mean, how does somebody sit around when a snuff film is being made?
Okay.
So There's many, many ways to, quote unquote, meet the devil.
Okay.
And then I guess it depends on how much of the hooks that they get into.
But yeah.
Yeah, but you're talking about a class of people who we know that, I mean, you must know this, unless I'm wrong, they tend to get sexually abused by their families.
So often before the age of three, but when they're most vulnerable and to get to create the sort of the fractured mind and stuff.
They're trained that psychopathy is sort of bred into them.
They live in a value system where doing bad things is a bit like a Christian helping a beggar or helping the poor and fatherless.
They believe in this kind of system where they have to tell you what they're doing in order to absolve themselves of karmic guilt.
They have all these codes, but they're so bound up in the system.
Okay, I can agree with you when you say they're not fundamentally evil themselves, because after all, we're all created in God's image.
But what they do and what they've been trained to do is evil.
So they're not like the killer on his first mission.
They're like the killer on his 60th mission.
They've been there.
Yeah, I mean, there's a intellectual thing that you can do.
You try and put yourself in somebody else's shoes and different things.
Continuation of MKULTRA Secrets00:07:03
I mean, there's a couple of things I like to, one I like to do, it's called the catbird seed.
Okay.
And you imagine, okay, so there is this thing called the Illuminati or whatever it is.
And, you know, there's these people.
Okay.
And if you were head of this, okay, and you had all these capabilities, what would you do?
How would you operate?
Okay.
And so then the other thing is, is can, you know, this mind control technique, okay, where they, you know, sexually abuse, you know, babies and children, okay, to turn them into willing participants.
Okay.
Now, I've been up against this directly, okay, in CIA drugs, okay?
Because the CIA drugs communities is a small research community, okay?
And we were, you know, when the internet first came around, this was something new and it was a place where we could talk about it because it wasn't something that was really talked about very much.
Okay.
And so we created a community there and had a bunch of authors, you know, on an email list and was doing things.
And I got to watch in there a gentleman by the name of Michael Rupert, okay, become, you know, a big leader in it.
Okay.
And basically, you know, how was he set up as a leader?
Well, the CIA sent their head honcho to LA and had a press conference and Rupert interrupted and saying, you know, stuff about it.
And so we were going on, I was having CIA drugs symposiums and different things.
And Daniel Hopsicker was in that group too.
And he started seeing something hinky there.
I didn't quite understand it.
And but then he starts saying, well, you know, you can't invite this person, you can't invite that person, you know.
And I listened to him some, and I'm glad I invited other people.
But and then later on, okay, when 9-11 happened, okay, we were a bunch of people that were used to, you know, deconstructing government lies.
And so when 9-11 happened, the first word thing that went out was, okay, everybody turn on your VCRs.
Okay.
So, right.
Right.
So I got to watch Rupert, you know, pivot from CIA drugs to 9-11.
And he wrote across the Rubicon and became a very big guy in the 9-11 truth movement and whatnot.
And then all of a sudden, he goes to Russia, okay, for three weeks for an economic conference.
Okay.
And he comes back from there and have this big first 9-11 conference in San Francisco.
And he starts reporting that, well, 9-11, we can't change anything there.
It's just rearranging the decks, you know, the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
But we need to do, he does what I call the conspiracy two-step tango.
It takes us to peak oil, okay, which is just a bullshit, excuse my language, conspiracy theory.
So, you know, I dug into it.
And, you know, he went through the mind control training as a kid, okay?
And to be able to be used in this situation.
And he brought another person to this community who at the time would talk about her mind control training as a young kid.
Okay.
And this was Catherine Austin Fitz.
She doesn't like to talk about it these days.
Okay.
But, you know, that's how she got onto the board of Dylan Reed.
Okay.
And see, another aspect of the mind control training ups the intelligence level of the subject.
Okay.
And, you know, when I first met Catherine, you know, she would talk about it.
And if you, you know, she wanted you to watch some particular movies before she'd talk about it much.
But and it's, and it's, and it's, you know, it wasn't something that she chose to do.
It was something that, you know, somebody put her in that position.
Okay.
And she's been able to grow up because you see, a lot of that, again, it goes back to trance and how much a person goes into a trance.
Okay.
And, you know, after a while, some people, you know, they grow out of it.
But it's, it's, again, it is, it is a reality that that does happen.
And, you know, you can, like I say, you can trace it back farther than MKUltra.
You can trace it beyond MKUltra.
That's one of the things that Epstein was doing.
And that's, when read, I got, you know, was very sad last week because we had to announce a book that the author is withdrawing.
Okay.
Epstein Blue Butterfly.
And because this book wasn't going into the sex, it was going into the scientist.
Okay.
Because, yeah, he was gathering young women and girls and things, but he was also gathering a whole bunch of world-class scientists.
He was also giving these guys money to do things.
And this is a continuation, okay, of the MK Ultra continuation.
They were doing cloning.
They were looking into all kinds of, I mean, that ranch in New Mexico, you know, this gal woke up there on a table, you know, looking up at a medical.
thing and with a with a surgeon there and and uh we believe that they were harvesting eggs we have statements from other survivors about egg harvesting and of particular uh blood lines and blood types okay so um the reason is presumably what rhesus negative presumably um i i believe and a lot of oh yes
Creating a Better World00:06:54
Yes, and AB negative, something like that, yes.
Yeah.
And so there was, you know, there's a lot more going on.
And, you know, they'll throw out all kinds of things to, you know, distract us and stem the flow.
Yeah, yeah.
Sorry, just going back to the Kathleen Austin Fitts, I mean, I knew that she was formed.
one of those families but i didn't realize that she was she'd had that kind of fractured personality thing in her because a lot of look a lot of people are divided in the in the kind of the whatever this community is called truth seekers whatever they're kind of divided over over katherine austin fits you know a bit like they are over say tucker carlson they they think well yeah he comes up with some good information but but he's basically
working for the other side, working for the elites.
Well, yeah, you know, I understand that.
I mean, I'm, you know, do you beat the other side or do you squeeze it to death, if that makes any sense, you know?
You can run away from things or sometimes you can embrace them and change them, you know?
So...
It's, you know, I mean, does the, do you go live in a cave, you know, to create a better world?
Or do you try and create a better world through talking to people?
I mean, you know, I don't know.
There's lots of different things.
But, yeah, I can understand that.
But, you know, Catherine is a good person and very smart.
Well, I like her.
I like her.
i think she's very smart um so you think we should love bomb the illuminati into righteousness yeah you know i i i don't think we're gonna get rid of them by hating them.
Okay, I, you know, I'm a, I like Buddha, I like, you know, I, you know, I.
I like life.
Christ said, love God and everybody's your brothers and sisters.
And that's the whole of the law.
And that really is, you know.
So I'm just very, very hopeful.
And I really think that, you know, the Illuminati has been exposed the most as of today.
Okay.
I mean, you know, we know more about them, okay, than we did when, you know, I was a little kid.
Okay.
And there's more information out there.
But truth seekers need to realize that it's not just to uncover evil, okay, or evil deeds.
It is to create a new way forward.
I mean, I'm, you know, I'm very, I say all the time, onward to a better future for our children, okay?
Because that's who we lead the world to, okay, is to is to our children.
And with the ability to, you know, with AI and the ability to just really lock things down, if we don't stand up now and do something, okay, our children and their children are, you know, they're going to be smacked down.
So I, but like I say, I'm very hopeful because I really think that the Illuminati, whatever you want to call them, have, you know, have gone way over their skis.
Okay.
And, you know, it's, I mean, the jack boots are quite visible.
That's very true.
I mean, I'm not sure I quite share your, I mean, look, you've just described to me how these people have the power to decide how the culture treats each generation.
You know, they can say, right, this is going to be the generation that does this.
I mean, my generation, for example, I don't get this.
What was the purpose of them flooding us with MGMA, ecstasy, and making us all listen to dance music, Second Summer of Love and all that?
You know, I found that very interesting because I'm a musician.
And so I would play and, you know, we would play these festivals and we would play music and then they'd have this other thing off to the distance, you know, the trance and the dance music and stuff like that.
And, you know, it's a way to control and befuddle.
I mean, it's just like video games.
I mean, how much time has been wasted, you know, playing video games instead of addressing the quote-unquote problems of the world.
Okay.
I mean, and, you know, I mean, we don't want to have the whole problems of the world on, you know, on everybody's shoulder.
But, you know, there is, there's obviously, you know, a way to walk down here.
And so I'm just, I don't know, I'm just, I'm just very hopeful because I really think, I mean, you know, when you look at the history of the United States, okay, and, you know, where they had to get to, okay, to break off from England because they really didn't want to.
I mean, it took quite a bit, okay, to do that, okay?
And, but it just, it just got too much.
And again, once that happened, then government oven buying for the people kind of spread around the world.
Okay.
Now, you know, what I noticed in England is the psychological control, you know, is very strong there in England, I'd say.
Creating Dumb-Down Populations00:06:14
I mean, I don't know.
I don't live there.
I live here in the United States, and we have, you know, they have very strong control here too.
But the other thing is that we have a lot of space.
And so, you know, you can go somewhere and you aren't really bothered by a lot of people.
Okay.
So they seem to, you know, activate, you know, different controls in different countries to a certain extent.
But, you know, we're now worldwide and they're really trying to impose this quote-unquote new world order of oligarchy, really.
And I don't, I just, it's going to be dang interesting, that's for darn sure.
You know?
The thing that, because I had a great time yesterday reading through your collected essays on Skull and Bones.
And one of the things I learned, which I thought was really interesting, was that Russell, before he founded Skull and Bones, well, actually, I learned lots of good things.
I mean, I learned that Yale is basically the CIA.
They're almost synonymous.
I don't think we've got an equivalent in England.
I mean, maybe Oxford is MI6.
I don't know.
All Souls College.
All Souls.
Right.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
But your man Russell, he went over to a, before he founded Skull and Bones, he went to a German university and joined one of their elite clubs there.
And Skull and Bones was actually set up as the sister branch of this.
And you suggested that the German secret society was basically the Illuminati.
So you've got the Illuminati being imported from Europe, from Germany, to Yale and becoming the sort of governing mechanism for the Illuminati in the U.S.
But also importing...
I love the idea that the Battle of Jena was what decided the education policy for the next 200 years.
300... I took...
200 years.
The defeat of the Prussians, the Prussians were considered to be too free-thinking.
And so Bismarck said, well, look at the lesson of this.
We don't want free-thinking people.
We want them to be able to stand in a line and get mown down with great shop for the greater good.
So now we're going to institute this education system that's going to, and this all connects.
So you've got then the Americans, the people in Skull and Bones, going, yeah, this is a great idea.
Let's create this dumbed-down population just clever enough to do our bidding, but not clever enough to think for themselves, to think outside the box.
And so, what we're going to do is we're going to get people like Dewey to, who was the other educationalist that was responsible for your appalling education system?
John Dewey and oh, I can't take them.
But anyway, so you've got this really, really shit education system being imposed on America by design.
And then, man.
And then we come full circle because at the beginning, you mentioned somebody called Charlotte.
I assume you mean Charlotte Isabet.
Yes, Isabet.
Yeah.
Isabet.
So Charlotte Isabet, who I wish I'd done a podcast with, but when did she die?
Oh, maybe three years ago, three, four years ago.
I see that's so unlucky.
Did you meet her?
Oh, yes.
What was she like?
Oh, she was wonderful.
She was, you know, I met her in San Francisco one day.
She was wearing leather pants and a really nice lady.
And I've got an author who wrote School World Order, okay, Jake Kleisett, okay, who spent a lot of time with her.
Okay, and you should get him on too.
I would do.
Yes.
It's a very good book.
My publisher's forward basically says this is a scary book.
Because as I understand it, Charlotte Isabet came from one of the sort of the bloodline backgrounds.
So she was one of the elites, and she was given this cushy posting in the Bush administration, was it?
I think she started first in the Reagan administration.
But she was given this job, which was a kind of what they wanted her to do was to go to the country club rather than take her job seriously.
But that instead she was education, and instead she started looking at the files and realizing that it was no accident that American kids were becoming more and more stupid.
It was by design.
So she wrote a book called The Dumbing Down of America.
Dumbing Down something.
Big yellow book.
Big yellow book.
And there's John Taylor Gato's underground history of American Education 2 that's very good.
He was working with Sutton.
And no, Charlotte was a, like I say, her father and grandfather were both members of the Order of Skull and Bones.
They were both mining engineers.
And she was the lady who sent the books, the membership books to Tony.
Profitable Rivalries Need Government00:15:13
And I mean, right now, I mean, I've even tried recently asking AI and different things to get me a current list of Skull and Bone members, and it won't supply it.
I mean, they stopped publicly releasing their members in 1968, George W. Bush's year was the last year that they had them in the annual, the banner annual at Yale.
And the only place that releases their names and sometimes they say they don't know for sure is Rumpus, a Yale tabloid that's put out by students.
Right.
I mean, it's been very interesting.
Sometimes skull and bones, you know, has become very, very toxic there.
And the freshman class will announce that nobody in our class is going to join skull and bones.
But by the time they get to their junior year, there's some that that always, always join.
And then, you know, the drug trade, the immensity of the drug trade is, you know, officially.
they say that there's a million to a million two junkies in the United States.
I think there's a few more, okay?
But at a million to a million two, that's a ton, a ton a day that has to be, you know, broken down and given out, okay?
I mean, there's some people that, you know, they might buy three days' worth, and there's some buy a week, and there's some even that buy a month, okay?
But most people are daily opium intake people.
okay, at, you know, that's a ton a day, okay, and Russia, according to official figures, has 5% of its population is daily opium intake, okay, China still has the largest number of people that are daily opium intake people, and then Iran has the largest percentage population of 10% because it's a upper class and middle class thing in Iran,
and so, I mean, And the amount of stuff that has to be spread around the world is just immense.
And, you know, I'm a musician, and I met a few people that moved to drugs.
And I was a friend of these people of a Mexican cartel, they started telling me a story about how this.
This oil company from Brazil, I believe, because they had this valley in Mexico where they've been growing opium poppies for well over 100 years.
And they said, yeah, this company came to us, and they want to put a little shack in the middle of their valley where the pipe comes up out of the ground and then goes back in.
Okay.
Because, again, you know, a ton a day for a million, too, and it's a lot more.
But how did they get it here?
They're using the oil pipelines and pigs to move stuff around.
It's a huge industry.
Again, they all should be just straight legal because as long as they're illegal.
Is it the world's biggest, the most lucrative industry?
It's the most profitable.
Right.
It's the most profitable.
most profitable and you know and it's illegal so we don't really All the figures, do we?
And who, so the people who are making the money out of this are basically the old families?
The old families, the banks and the banks, yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, you know, I mean, you can look at, you know, from a mafia standpoint, you know, they're going to want to take out their competition because, you know, it's like when the Americans got involved in the opium trade, because the British East India Company had told us Americans that we had to buy tea from them.
Well, the Americans said blanca blanc.
And we started meeting Dutch and French ships out in the middle of the ocean and getting tea and giving them ginseng and different things.
And so the Americans developed the Clipper ship, which could tack against the wind.
So when we got involved in the drug trade, you're going from Canton to Bombay, these guys, they were sometimes it would take two years for the ship to go back and forth.
And some people were doing, you know, in one year.
And then the Clipper ship got involved.
And so they were doing it three times a year.
Okay.
So did the British not have clippers?
After a while, after a while, but the Americans developed them first.
Wow.
And then during the First Opium War, the Americans weren't involved in it.
So we had our factory in Canton open during the whole war.
The other, you know, the French and the German, the Dutch and the British weren't there.
So we developed very strong relationships with them.
So, yeah, it's history is what we learn from.
And the future is to where we're going.
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting hearing this from you, because you've spent a lot of time looking into this stuff.
I mean, I had no idea that a lot of American families had enriched themselves with the opium trade, nor had I any idea about how important the opium trade was.
I kind of thought heroin was a kind of minority thing these days and that it was not.
So is heroin the big drug still?
Well, I mean, it's been taken over by fentanyl.
Okay.
It's easier to produce and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Right.
Okay.
But the people that are controlling it and spreading it out aren't the people that are going to jail.
You said at the beginning that when you started reading about this world, you found one book blaming the Mormons, one book blaming the Catholics, one book blaming the Masons, one book blaming the Jews.
Where are you on?
Because I've heard different theories.
There's the Springmeier, 13 Satanic Bloodlines.
I've known Fritz.
I've known Fritz for 50 years.
You can't trust everything Fritz says, and he talks about that.
He says he puts everything up and puts it down because, I mean, I was sitting and talking to a guy that Fritz once said was killed by a cult.
Okay.
And he was alive.
So I like Fritz, and there's some good stuff in there, but you just need to be careful.
I mean, you need to be careful with everybody.
Well, that's always been my policy.
I mean, I could listen to this.
If I listen to my old interviews, which I don't, but if I did, I'd be going through this and going, yeah, he was really on the money there.
Not sure I buy stuff about that.
I think that has to be the approach.
You have to sort of compare what you know with what this person's telling you and what your instinct tells you and all this.
That makes sense.
But you must have got a kind of a feeling.
There's the story about the black nobility, the story about families going back to ancient Rome.
Some of them, like the DuPonts, which can trace their heritage back to Babylon, you know, DuPont.
There's some connection between the word pontiff and it's an occult thing.
So do you, I mean, would you see it in terms of kind of like rival mafia gangs?
So you've got the kind of the Jewish mob, you've got the Catholic mob, you've got the is that how it works?
No, I truly believe, you know, the again, the book out of Belgium based on the state police report where they put somebody up and he got up to the top and there was a whole whole bunch of things all called the order.
Okay.
And so I really look at as a again, a secret societal system is the control mechanism.
And they're going to create false rivalries to move the population, okay, for different narratives.
But like I say, you know, yeah, Skull and Bones is related to a German secret society.
Okay.
And in these societies, your allegiance is not to your country.
Your allegiance is to the secret societies.
So I really see, you know, I'm sure there is some rivalries.
But at a certain point in time, you're going to look to cooperate because the cooperation between these secret societies is going to allow them to control, defeat their enemy, which again is the people.
Okay.
I mean, they've got to keep, you know, whatever semblance of, okay, why are we deserved to be in power?
Okay.
Why do the blue bloods think they're blue?
Okay.
It's a fancy way of saying, well, we're related to King David.
Okay.
And so then they try and use, you know, psychopomp to say that, you know, that means that, you know, we're the elite and, you know, we're part of the, you know, we deserve it.
Okay.
And, you know, but when you look at history, you know, the first thing a usurper does, okay, is create a false history.
So he's in with that line of control.
Okay.
And I believe there's work in genetics and DNA that shows, you know, you go back four or five hundred years and we're all pretty much related.
You know, so all this bloodline superiority, blah, blah, blah, blah, is just a control mechanism when, again, we need to have proper ways of governance here.
I mean, you know, there's some people say, oh, we don't need government.
Well, I don't know.
I think we need government so that we can all talk to each other.
I mean, you got, you know, some people can't even get along talking with other people just on Facebook, you know.
So government oven by and for the people, where, you know, you look at your problems and you figure out how to deal with them rather than having, you know, control imposed from above, okay, either because, you know, they're the royals or whatnot.
So, you know, I don't know.
Do you think that if you and I had been ambitious, we could have joined the Illuminati?
Oh, possibly, but they would have probably just steal what you have and give it to somebody else.
Okay, I mean, now the Illuminati, you know, you had a Weishout, okay, start that, what was that, May 1st, 1776, okay?
And then you had come to America, you had Phi Beta Kappa was formed here on December 5th, 1776, okay, and then two shoots went off from that was at College of William and Mary, and two shoots went off, one went to Yale, one went to Harvard, okay.
And now, like the number 322, that's the number of Skull and Bones.
And I think that those are like chapter numbers, okay?
And I think you have lots of different chapters around the order.
Yes.
So you mean that Skull and Bones is the 322nd chapter of the Order?
What's number one?
I personally think it's in Bavaria, but I don't know.
I don't go to their meetings.
I just read books, you know.
But beyond all that, you know, I'd like to see a future without the secrecy, okay, of these people using secrecy to lie, cheat, and steal.
Okay.
And so again, I'm hopeful.
I'm just really hopeful because either we're going to live in a lockdown or we're going to live in some liberty and freedom.
Do you wonder why you haven't been bumped off?
Oh, it probably causing more problems than it'd be worth.
I mean, the biggest thing that I've found is that they basically, I get ignored.
I get ignored.
Wikipedia Pagelessness00:13:54
Okay, because if light gets shined upon me, you know, they've got to explain it.
And so they, I mean, I don't have a Wikipedia page.
Okay.
I've been doing Try and Dave for 26 years, got 180 books.
Okay.
People have tried to set one up and it gets taken down.
Oh, his books don't, they don't mean nothing.
Nothing to see here.
Nothing to see here.
So.
Now you've got me worried, Chris, because I do have a Wikipedia page.
I'm a target, aren't I?
Right, right.
But, you know, it's We live in very interesting times.
We live in very interesting times.
And I'm hopeful for the future.
I just think that...
Yeah, but the problem is, Chris, that you're a big soppy Buddhist, whereas...
So you believe we're all one with the world.
And I'm a Christian.
I've got revolution.
I'm a Christian, too.
I believe Buddhism, Jerusalem was on a track that went all the way back to the spices.
I mean, there was Buddhist communities in Egypt at the time.
And where did he go for, you know, when he was a teenager to 30?
Where did he go?
So I'm just, Lord have mercy.
Again, I'm just very hopeful because I really think that the exposure isn't doing the Illuminate any good.
Okay.
I mean, and in today's world, again, it's going to get interesting.
I mean, everybody's got a computer in their pocket, got a phone in their pocket, got a movie paper in their pocket, you know?
Along with that guy in Kenya, you know?
So who knows where our help is going to come from?
Yeah, I will take the guy in Kenya, but I'm not sure whether that's enough compensation for everyone carries a spy device, which probably can explode on the trigger signal.
So we've got the goat herd in Kenya versus the fact that everyone is carrying the seeds of their instant destruction.
Well, you know, I guess you're a glass half-full guy, Chris.
Well, I'm just, I don't know.
I believe in our country, and I believe in people all over the world.
I don't, you know, most people, you know, they love their children and they want their children to have a better future.
And so that's where a lot of my hope lies.
But the thing is, Chris, this has been one of my take-homes since I began my crash course journey down the rabbit hole about five years ago.
And it's been pretty intense, Michael.
And it's made me love people, human beings, more than ever.
Because I believe we're all created in God's image.
And people just people don't want to be fighting wars.
They want to be spending time with their kids and having, you know, chatting to people and hanging out.
And they like to be growing stuff and doing stuff that's real, like hunting, you know, on horseback and things that matter.
I get all that.
I get all that.
But the people who run the world ain't like that.
I mean, whether it's not their fault or it is their fault is neither here nor there.
The point is they are what they are and they do what they do.
And I agree.
We can all build communities and build parallel systems and that's what we're doing, I think.
And you're right.
The more information gets out there, it puts the baddies on the back foot.
But I don't think it's going to resolve itself in the next generation.
Well, it's going to get very interesting.
We have the next, you know, Generation Alpha is the next, the next gen. Yeah, but they're the not the people looking towards the future.
And so, and again, we've got this cycle of generations can, and this fourth turning, this paradigm shift can lift us into, quote-unquote, heaven on earth here, okay, where we aren't, you know, fighting wars, where we aren't, you know, having, you know, an economy that is based on, you know,
war and other things.
I mean, how many of the Chinese people, you know, want to kill us?
How many of us want to kill the Chinese?
How many of us want to kill the Russians?
Blah, da, blah, blah, blah.
But, Chris, I'm going to refer you to one of the books that you've read because you've published it.
Two World Wars and Hitler.
And I learned from reading that book that in 1913, no, British people had no interest whatsoever in fighting Germans.
They had to be worked on very heavily.
And unfortunately, we know that the Milner group controlled the media.
They controlled academe.
They controlled politics.
They controlled finance.
And they used those institutions to slowly whip the populace into a frenzy to the point where people were killing, gangs were stalking Dakshin's.
German dogs were being hunted down in the streets.
German pianos were being chucked out of windows.
Now, this is in a populace that had no interest in fighting a war.
And then a few months later, they were all queuing up, joining Powell's battalions to fight with their mates, to go off, and it was all going to be over by Christmas.
And how many million of them died?
The flower of the generation was wiped out.
So it's one thing saying, yeah, nobody really likes war, but it's another thing saying they're not going to be immune to the blandishments of a system which is designed to brainwash them and control them, controlled by some evil people.
Well, the internet wasn't around at that time.
We can counter it as much as we can.
But again, there is a counter argument.
There is counter-voices.
And again, I'm just hoping that their corruption is so much in the open.
Their corruption is so much in the open that it exposes them, it exposes them to change in a good way.
So, you know, again, it's hope.
It is hope.
But I truly, you know, can see a path how it can happen.
Okay.
Whether it will or not, who knows?
But again, I'm just truly, because we're sitting here, you know, at a virtual table, okay, talking about this.
And that's how change happens.
Okay.
That's how change happens by people talking, people understanding, people, you know, being, oh, I didn't understand that.
Now I'm understanding that more.
Okay.
And it doesn't just all happen at once.
I mean, like you were saying, you went on a crash course.
I'm a lucky guy.
Okay.
My daddy told me some stuff I didn't understand.
Okay.
I got to take 20 years until I understood my daddy and I didn't, you know.
And then I got another, you know, 20 just reading books here and there and what were you right?
People are going through this crash course of going down the rabbit holes, trying to figure out how the world really works.
Okay.
And then if you get some kind of handle on that, then comes a question, well, what can I do about it?
Okay.
And you're doing something.
You're having conversations with me.
Okay.
And these conversations are being listened to by other people.
Okay.
Right.
And so, you know, I mean, the American Revolution, okay.
The largest population was on their couch.
Okay.
It was just, you know, a small percentage of it that actually made change happen.
Okay.
And yeah, the powers that be were still in the background, you know, somewhere, some of it holding on by the skin of their teeth.
Okay.
And they're able to re-establish themselves.
But again, you know, sunlight is the best disinfected.
Okay.
And so people talking about it.
That's how that's how change happens.
So before we go, Chris, give me your top three of all the books you read on this, on the conspiracies.
What are your top three?
Golly Wally Doodle.
So I'll put you on the spot.
Well, Two World Wars and Hitler is awfully good.
I do like Fleshing Out Skull and Bones.
I like America's Secret Establishment, An Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones.
That was like Whitney Webb's.
One Nation Under Blackmail, you know, explains a lot of the situation we're in.
Professor Quigley's books, both of his books are very good.
I don't think I can pick three.
I'm sorry.
No, that's right.
That's right.
Well, that's a starter reading list.
Well, where can people find you?
I don't mean where you live.
They know where you live anyway, the people, the black helicopters.
Yeah.
Trying day.com.
Okay.
And I've also got a conspiracy theory research list, ctrl.org.
It's not very active.
But Try and Day, we've got a Facebook page.
I've got my own Facebook page, Chris Milligan.
That's where I probably get quote unquote political.
And just, yeah, trying day.com.
It's got my phone number.
It's got an email address.
And I imagine you will be providing me with lots, lots more guests on my podcast because it sounds like your published authors and my podcast.
There's quite a good Well, yeah, I mean, again, I've been, you know, exploring, you know, how the world really works and talking to people.
And then, you know, people throw me books.
And I don't just publish books that, you know, I believe in 100%.
I mean, because that's not the job of a publisher.
No.
You know, and so, I mean, I've got books out there that, you know, I don't agree with, but there's, you know, learning and their exposition.
Okay.
And you have to go down some blind alleys too to understand where the reality is, too.
Actually, before we go, I've got to ask you a final question to see whether you are, in fact, CIA like your father or not.
Is the world a globe?
A spinning globe?
I think we are a planet, yes.
I think we are a planet in a solar system that lives in a galaxy, that lives in lots of galaxies.
You crazy.
I mean, I don't know what that has to do with the CIA, but that's my own.
I imagine you've just spelled out the CIA position.
Chicago Mob Rejection00:02:12
i guess i don't know i mean i i i was never uh my older brother uh i was asked to join when he uh he was working in new york the only i was I turned down the Chicago mob twice.
Did you?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they offered you a place on their graduate recruitment scheme or what?
Well, no, I was a salesman selling pre-recorded video.
And I was at the Chicago CES show, and I was complaining that I wasn't making enough money.
And they say, go talk to Guido up at the top of the stairs because he had movies that weren't even in the theaters on videotape, which you could then sell, you know, black sell for 50 to 100 bucks.
But I didn't like him.
So I said no.
And then later on, they made sure that I knew that the guy I was going to meet owned this lounge where I was meeting him with.
And they wanted to set up a used video warehouse, which, yeah, there'd be used, but there'd be a bunch of black stuff there too.
And so I get there and the guy shows up and he brought three picture books.
He brought a picture book of his mansion, a picture book of his cars, and a picture book of his horses.
Well, you know, I'd been around the block enough to know that you only tell them yes once.
And so I said no.
I mean, I could have made a whole bunch of money and stuff like that, but you only tell those guys yes once.
I think that's right.
I think I might have said yes with the horses.
That's the problem.
But the thing is, I've noticed this, that, I mean, you really don't want stuff in your past that people could blackmail you on, do you?
Realizing Risks With Age00:02:44
You really, I mean, you've got to be, you don't know this when you're young.
You don't realize.
It'd be so that there were so many ways they can ensnare you because you're young and you're foolish and you're and you think, wow, I want money.
Because you do when you're younger.
You want, I want girls, whatever.
Yeah, sex, sex, you know, trips up a lot of folks, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, because, you know, if you don't have somebody on your side, how are you going to get them to do what you want them to do?
Okay.
And, you know, if you can tell them a lie to get you what you want them to do, that's something.
But if you got your hand on their shoulder, okay.
So, yeah, blackmail is definitely a way that they get things done.
So, I think, Chris, we can send a joint message to the younger people watching this podcast.
If you are being offered easy sex or easy money, just remember, it's not really easy.
Is that a fair enough message?
Amen.
Amen.
Exactly.
So, just learn that, kids.
And older people who are thinking of being tempted.
It's not worth it.
Right.
Well, Chris, I've really enjoyed chatting to you.
I did get on with you.
perhaps we'll chat again about about other things you obviously you must have learned an awful lot in your in your how many when did you become what how how old are you by the way uh I'm 76, be 77 this year.
Right.
Yeah, 76.
That must be a.
It must have an occult significance because of 1776.
It must, mustn't it?
Seven and six.
Well, you know.
It is, it's 13.
You know, the world keeps on happening.
You know, it keeps on rolling around.
I appreciate it, sir.
Well, thank you.
I'm going to go and have some peanut butter on toast now and I'm going to nurse my, I'm going to have another Arnica tablet for my, see my finger?
Well, get well.
Get well.
Well, thank you.
I will.
I'll be a brave boy.
Thank you.
It's been really good talking to you.
And, oh, yes, everybody, do consider being a paid subscriber of me on Substack and stuff and support my sponsors and everything else.