John Waters is a legend of Irish journalism who woke up and saw the light. James and John enjoy just the kind of rambling, amiable, insightful chat you would have hoped and expected. John’s new book of collected essays - which can also be used as a doorstop or defensive weapon - is out now.
https://www.johnwaters.ie/books/
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Welcome back to the Delling Pod.
Not before time.
John Waters.
Um I was looking.
I think our last thing was in 2023.
But it feels like longer.
I can't remember.
I it I it feels like a long time.
Um that's 23 years quite a long.
It's two years ago, so that's a long time.
Do you not do you not feel that time is accelerating?
I I just I just feel that the gap between now and and 2023 feels to me almost as big as the gap between say 2023 and 1990.
Because it it's everything's accelerating.
It is, yeah.
I think it is.
That's that's aging, James, I think, or so they say, you know, I I find in I find that all the time.
Uh and it's absolutely staggering because it's very it's it's it's um exponential, really.
It's not like even just accelerating, it's like uh yeah, I it's a very it's a very dangerous thing to do, you know, when you start comparing periods of time, you know, the period of time between now and your next important birthday, and how long ago that seems in the past, which is always a very short time.
It seems like, oh gosh, that's no time, and then I'll be 80.
Or whatever.
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
And it seems impossible.
It's a whereas when we were kids, time just crawled, and you'd you could days or last it forever.
Or so I believe the joy the joy of of of boredom, which we hated at the time, but we now look back on nostalgically as being, yeah, we could just let our minds wander.
Oh yeah.
I mean, now it boredom in every way, James.
I mean, wouldn't you love a boring life now?
Yeah.
Wouldn't you love that there was nothing to be you know worried about, excited about I've been working on it, actually, and I've decided that the country life is so much better than the town life.
And I was thinking I was thinking about my weekend.
I'll tell you about one of the highlights of my weekend.
This is how much this is how action-packed my weekends are these days.
So probably the high point of my weekend was when I decided to buy some eggs from the roadside um container where you they put the eggs in the container and then you put the money in the Odyssey box.
And I was worried that the eggs would run out before I I I hadn't got any cash.
So I took the eggs and then went home with the intention of coming back maybe the next day on the way to church, and I mentioned this to the wife, and the wife said, No, you mustn't do that because they'll think that somebody's gonna nicked their eggs, so you must go back now with the money.
And so I did, and then I knocked on the door of the house I the big house I thought it was, and the man said, No, these aren't our eggs, they belong to Rosie next door.
So I went to Rosie next door, and I had a long chat with her about eggs and about hunting, and then I came home.
That was the that was the high point, the the big excitement of my weekend.
Yeah.
That's how it should be, I think.
That is how it should be, yeah.
Sometimes it is for me, you know.
I had a similar day last week where I was making blackberry jam.
Oh yeah.
And it's all very tragic because I had a garden for a few years, but the weather, because of the geoengineering, etc., the weather became impossible to deal with.
So I and I became older as well.
So I could so I had to stop a lot of stuff.
I'm I plan to make it happen again next year, but that's another day's work.
But I kinda look at m making blackberry jam as the one ritual left in in the year that gives me an entitlement to have wellies inside the front door.
You know?
And and that means a lot to me.
And do you remove the pips?
You make jelly, not jam, I I hope.
Uh no, I make jam.
So you've got horrible, horrible evil blackcurrant pips that get in your sorry, blackberry pips that get in your teeth.
Yes.
But but they're softened.
I've oil it up well, so they're nice and soft.
Don't worry, it's fine.
It's we it gems, it is the nicest jam you ever had.
You would eat you know, you would faint if you had some.
I've I've heard this from from Blackberry Jam advocates.
I have to tell you, John, and this is this is quite contentious.
I am not the world's biggest black BlackBerry fan.
I I don't I don't like the pips, but maybe you maybe you've on those out, but it even the taste is not it's just like it's not up there.
It's not up there with um Are you sure that's sure that isn't some kind of you know deep deep prejudice against the bigger?
I was probably I was probably um scratched by by too many brambles in my childhood, and I blame them.
Oh, they are they are very very uh they're horrible, uh you know, you come out with your arms.
I you that you can never be certain that uh, you know how much blood is actually in the jam, you know, because of the amount of bleeding you do when you're picking them, you know, for sure.
But I w I wash them, I I carefully and all that.
I do all the and then skull the pot the jars and everything, you know, whatever you call that.
I do everything properly, and so at the end I feel like I'm a farmer again.
Or something.
Something like that.
I'd just like to say, for those of us for those viewers and listeners who are thinking, this is just two batty old men going off on one about stuff of no interest to me.
Actually, I think we're we're engaging with the essence of what really matters, which is that you and I, and people like us, pe the awake people, whatever you want to say, have become aware that the world is run by people who want to immiserate us and ideally destroy us in many cases.
And our our mission is to live a good life and live in the world as God meant us to live in it and enjoy things that matter like friendship, like food.
Ideally food we've we've grown ourselves or or foraged for ourselves and prepared ourselves.
This is this is the way w we fight back, I I think we we we're not going to do it by manning the barricades and making pipe bombs and things because they've got a monopoly of violence that they'll destroy us and that's what they want anyway.
Well exactly I I I completely agree with that.
I mean we do our thing in in a sense in resisting and but that's kind of like work.
But in living our lives we we we the things are important you know with our children.
And I my granddaughter I have a I'm I'm a grandfather since I saw you last James.
Oh congratulations I'm a grandfather as well so congratulations to you too uh when did that happen?
Oh my my granddaughter is six years old.
Oh right okay I've been in this long time.
You beat me to it and you're only a young fella.
I I don't take grand I never take grandparents seriously until they're seventy.
Sorry.
I I do need the grizzled look I agree.
You're rocking my grandfather I look I've got it see that's why I I've got this white beard now it's excellent.
You look like granddad.
Yes.
I'm actually called granddad I'm called dad O, which is the Irish word for uh for grandad.
Gr dad O I don't like grandad.
There are far too many granddads around the place in my view.
Daddo.
Yes I like that.
Yeah yeah.
Um so uh yeah so yeah but you're exactly right because I mean you what you want to be able to show uh their grandchildren is you know how to make stuff like that or what it where it comes from and how the world is really see I think that ultimately the countryside is the wilderness is the the religious zone is the spiritual zone.
Whereas the city is the man made zone and and it tells you how what you should do every at every turn and where you should go and what you should be doing.
Whereas out in the countryside you're you're out in the open y there's there are no rules really you just have to uh be fully in the world and I think that's the difference.
Fundamentally that's why they're trying to eliminate farming and and rural life and all that kind of stuff yes they are and and it's why we're such a threat to them.
Because because we we do notice things like the rhythms of of nature and the changing seasons and we notice tiny details.
I mean when you live in the country you go go for a walk on the same route every day and every day throughout the year you notice subtle shifts or you see different things.
Maybe I mean at the moment the House Martins are gathering for their for their migration south and it's just a a joy and at the same time it's kind it's quite sad because you know you're about to lose them but it's so exciting seeing them skittering around the skies and there's about a hundred and fifty outside our house at the moment.
it's glorious to watch oh yeah well I would find that sad actually I think maybe because I'm considerably older than you you know everything that you've seen I see now I know that I don't know obviously the time I've left that's the great mystery and I'm grateful for that but you know that there are a limited number and it's probably no more than whatever you know I won't say a number but so therefore each time something like that happens it's sadder than it ever was before
I've reconciled I decided so some time ago that I'm probably going to get bumped off in some way.
So I've I've already sort of bidden farewell in my head to a long old age.
I don't think it's gonna happen.
I mean I mean if it does happen result.
But I I'm not I'm not too hung up on on things.
I I just sort of I've made my peace with God and I'm I'm hoping he sees me right when it when when it all kicks off and that's it and I try I try I try try otherwise to sort of live by the day.
Yeah that's the best way.
That's what I do as well when I'm not deep delving deep into this absolute shit that we have to deal with all the time.
But uh yeah that's that's the way I live my life which is different to my work you know it it's it's it's it's the only way.
And And it's the only way you can actually look at your children or your grandchildren and not burst into tears all the time.
Yes, I definitely try not to think about that at all.
So you and I, when we last spoke, well we we we felt a tremendous bond.
Because you and I, I mean, there are other examples, but there are not many.
You and I are among the very few people who worked in the mainstream media to a degree.
And saw through everything, realize and and and suddenly realize that our whole lives without really knowing it, we'd been working for the enemy.
Yes.
Yes, somewhat, yes.
I think so.
Uh I'm not sure I was.
I mean, I I've listened to some of the things you may you said about this, James, and I've been very interested in some of the things that I had never occurred to me about the kind of devices that were used in the media, you know, to to promote the agendas and narratives and all that.
For example, your thing about uh anniversaries, this obsession with anniversaries in the media.
I was fascinated by that because as soon as you said it, I said, of course, of course.
I've been thinking I I've noticed that for years, but I thought it was just a way of filling space in some convenient way.
But you're dead right, it's it's something else.
It's it's it's hammering home a certain certain signposts in reality that we're supposed to be looking at, isn't it?
There's always the ostensible reason, the uh the official reason they do something, and then there's always the underlying reason.
So yeah, it was just that that thank you for noticing that one.
It was just it was just an insight I a random insight I had.
And like you, I thought, well, running an anniversary commemorative piece, it's what you do, you you you fill space because the you don't know what the news stories are going to be coming in, uh say you want something to ready prepared, so you prepare the story, and um quiz shows, I don't whether you've noticed this one serve a similar function.
The the idea is to encourage people to absorb information and regurgitate it, and if you absorb the information well, you get patted on the back and you win you win the quiz prize and stuff, you you beat you beat the chases.
Yes, or you sit in the mastermind chair and show how clever you are.
But it's not about that really.
I mean it it's not about it's not really about the challenge, that's just the the notional reason.
The real reason is to embed in the public imagination all the things that they feel that they want you to learn.
Yes.
I I'm reading a book at the moment, it's an old book from 1965 by Jacques Elol, the the the French uh philosopher, uh he was a Christian philosopher, and it's about it's called um the illusion of politics.
But the section I was really interested in was a section about mass media.
This is written in like 1965, which is show you like how that his thinking was quite you know advanced uh for that time.
Uh and his general point is that the the the kind of constant cycle of events day in and day out, which draws the public, the citizen he called in in this kind and and you become fixated on one set of stories in every day or one item, and you this is becomes a talking point.
And he says to be in the know in your in your circle is very important, like you know, that's part of your prestige and your kind of identity and so on.
And he said, This is all misleading us, leading us into all you know, miss because we never actually understand anything properly.
We don't have any sense of continuity because next day we're on to something else.
And our memory, he says that it's in effect, it's actually having strange effect on our memory.
It creates a kind of an amnesia about what's really happening in the world, so that we can only talk about today's events and we're highly opinionated.
And of course, now you could add to that that to each that news is accompanied by a kind of a moral imperative.
You know, it's not alone that you have to know what happened, but you have to have a certain correct position on what's happened and share that.
And if you don't, you can be driven out of your circle very quickly.
Now here's the point.
It struck me, yeah, and this may exonerate exonerate myself and yourself Somewhat, and not that I'm necessarily looking for that, but it did strike me, and maybe you will say, absolutely not, John, that doesn't work for me.
But here's the th the theory I have.
Because he's talking obviously about reporting, about news, news cycles.
Now it seemed to me I was I was only very for a very brief period was I an actual reporter doing that kind of right.
And I don't know, but I don't think you were ever really barely.
Yeah.
Barely.
Yeah.
So you see, I think that actually as a counter to what Ilal is saying, the introduction or intertrusion of what you would call commentaries of meaning into that cycle would actually have created a kind of a break on that process, you know, and stops people up and makes them think about things in context into in broader frames.
So I would now claim for myself and yourself if you want, that we were actually seeking to uh all our lives unwittingly to combat that tendency which we intuitively picked up.
What do you think?
Well I'd say I like to let myself partially off the hook because I was able to, and you probably in the same position.
I I was blessed in my journalistic career because I saw people around me who were maybe less talented, yeah, let's be honest, less talented, having to basically do what they're they were told in order to get on to obey orders.
And I would never undertake a commission where I didn't agree with the premise uh that it went against my my gut instinct that this was wrong.
And I could I could do that.
I had the luxury of being able to do that because I was such a good writer that I could say no, and I knew that they'd give me something else because they how could they not?
I'm not sure whether other people have that luxury, which is why you get it's often the the sort of the less talented, less and uh consequently less principled people who rise to the top because that's what ultimately the people who control every industry are looking for.
They want.
Oh yeah.
Um and what isn't it the case also that the reporters, the newsroom staff, the editors in the newsroom, they all hated colonists, they hated colonists once in the room, you know, having opinions about things.
Well, there was when I was I spent most of my career on the telegraph, my my my mainstream media career, and there was always a massive divide between the newsroom, which was the kind of the the NCO class, basically, and the commentary section, which was the officer class.
And the officer class had all been to Oxbridge, yada yada yada, and as as your sort of training ground, you were sent into the in into the newsroom to be insulted by these grizzled editors who despised you.
Yes, they wanted to make a man of you, and then you and then once you'd done your time in the trenches, you were you were kicked upstairs back to the That's right.
But then something very interesting happened, James.
And I this is maybe this this is certainly my impression, is it yours?
That actually at some point, some indeterminate point in the not too distant past, the tendency to choose the senior officers from among those kind of the commentariat, let's say that ceased, and suddenly you got all of the top brass were being sucked up from the lower levels from the NCO uh layer,
and they had a total contempt for uh analysis, for meaning, for you know, delving deeply into a subject, they didn't care less.
Where's the facts, man?
Where's the facts?
You know, and I think that actually is rep that tendency is actually replicated right across the board.
You see the same thing in politics.
Like that look at the idiots that are now running our countries.
They're their sole qualification, it seems to me, is their style, two, they have two.
One is their stupidity, and the other is their obedience.
So that's all they are required to have stupidity and obedience.
Yeah.
I I share your your sentiment about this that that well, I mean, there's there's no question that there has been newspapers are definitely not not what they were when we were writing for them back in the day.
That that that's that's a given.
They're just this the the standards of writing a sloppy they're much more shameless, I think, about pushing the agendas that they're pushing.
But I've just been reading this very interesting book about um it's called Two World Wars and Adolf Hitler, I think, something like that.
Um and it looks into the origins of the first and second world wars.
And it's very clear that in say the early the 1900s.
Uh yeah, the early 1900s.
Um Ps fitted into two basic categories.
Um stupid and evil, if you like.
Um most MPs hadn't a clue what was going on at all.
Uh those are the stupid ones, and the evil ones were completely in service to the agenda being dictated to them by the elites.
They were going to get rewards for it, they were probably sympathetic, sympathetic to these causes anyway.
Um what I'm what I'm saying is I think it's a mistake to look look on look on the past as a golden age when when journalists were practiced journalism and and politicians were had uh bottom and and integrity and uh etc.
It's yeah, that's just that's just uh our short memories and and bad history.
Well, it was better though, James, I do think.
I I mean I don't disagree with your principal point.
Uh but uh in general it was better.
I mean it has it is appalling now.
It it's it's beyond it's off the scale now, isn't it?
I mean, there is a lot of things.
The sub-editing, the the headlines, everything is i is is is poorer.
Yes, and also the ethical, I mean, I mean, I when I was there, when I was in journalism, I didn't particularly like the NUJ, but I was a member occasionally when when I you know things were going on, and they had this code of uh uh conduct, which by and large was decent enough in the sense that it there were certain things you had to do and not to do.
I mean, if you were if you were writing this story, you had to get both sides, and you had to if you were writing something critical about somebody you had to uh ring them up and inform them that this article was going in and did they have any comment and so on.
Uh all that stuff is out the window now, all principle.
I mean, I think essentially actually what happened to the media in this context is the influence of Twitter from about whatever it was, 15 years ago, basically, you know, all these guys immediately went on Twitter and they started adopting the kind of jungle uh ethics of Twitter at that time, and indeed probably still.
Uh and and as a result of that, the whole thing and and the world then started to imitate that uh in every way.
Political life became like valueless, uh and so on.
I you see, I I I know that you know you can you cannot say that uh politicians and journalists were ever saints, they weren't.
But they did have some standards and ethics to work by in the past, and they're all gone now.
Yeah.
Except here's the thing.
You and I I mean I would be right, wouldn't I, in saying that you and I pretty much woke up at the same time.
That the that COVID was uh before that we were to all intents and purposes what you might call a normie.
We we we sort of believe more or less in the system.
Well, I I would I mean I not not wanting to lose your train of thought because you know I just want to add issue a caveat there if you to if you want, I'll expand on it.
But it would be to say that one of the things I've that even though that's essentially true.
Nevertheless, one of the things I've been discovering or watching in the last two years is that a lot of the things that I was on top of as a columnist.
Have become live in this situation.
Like I was talking an awful lot about family and gender and feminism.
A lot of my time uh from the mid-90s on, I was doing a lot about the the idea of nationhood, uh, you know, and the the threat to nationhood and the disparagement of national heroes and all that.
And I was writing an awful lot about God and the concept of religion in society and all those things.
So all of those are totally now live in this situation.
They're there.
Are you writing critically about feminism?
Uh No, I was I was writing yeah, I was writing critically in relation to things like feminism and and and family law and all that, and the treatment of men in society, particularly fathers in society.
Yeah.
Family law course.
Male suicide, which was gone to us really like off the charts, uh, way back in the in the 90s.
Um and then Nationhood.
I mean, I was I was I was coming from the country in Ireland, uh, from the West, where you know there was an intensely nationalistic uh feeling, particularly around the time of Bloody Sunday and all that stuff, and you know, and also 1966, which was the 15th, uh 50th anniversary of the Easter writing.
Like, and then when I went to Dublin, I found that people were disparaging these heroes and and disparaging these events, and I was saying, what's all that about?
So I used to write regularly about these things, and then I I put to pick up the theme of uh uh of religion and and spirit, not so much spirituality, I don't like that term much uh because it reminds me I always think of incense and and crystals and things like that when I hear spirituality be mentioned, but I know it has a as a legitimate meaning in this context, but I kind of always prefer the term religion to describe it all as opposed to you know that it's a kind of an essence of the human being.
So I used to write an awful lot about that.
So you know, whereas I was completely blind to all the stuff that that other people, you know, conspiracy theorists as they're called, uh, like 9-11 or that, I hadn't a clue.
I was moved profoundly by what I thought had happened in 9-11.
Yeah, yeah.
We could we look we glimpsed bits, but we didn't we didn't see the no the the the big picture.
That's right.
Because it's very, very hard.
I mean, every everyone everyone watching and listening to this to this will have gone gone through a similar process.
And it's really it's really traumatizing because you have to say goodbye to your entire past life, really, and most of your old friends.
And all the things that you I mean, all those facts I learned, like who was the first man on the moon?
Neil Armstrong.
He never went.
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's everywhere.
I'm I'm I'm even beginning to think that um I haven't looked into this one yet.
But Woodstock.
Woodstock was definitely not as sold.
I think I think that I think the thing might have been faked to a degree.
I mean, obviously there was something happened in Woodstock, but I don't Well, yeah, I mean it does appear that a lot all of that kind of rock and roll and all that, that was uh some form of psyop, you know, that it was engineered at least, and and the Beatles and all that.
I I don't I don't doubt that, although I I sometimes quarrel with some of the details or ask questions about you know how that could possibly have been, and you know, I I but I I I in general think that that that the entire 60s narrative was constructed for us with the with the belief with the the aim of bringing down Western civilization through the resulting kind of uh what you would call uh whatever um uh degeneracy and and so on that would have m worked its way
into the culture and so on, and and that the the that people's kind of that those kind of rigid principles would be dissolved that had uh motivated humanity in in in the West up to that point, you know, uh were dissolved, and whatever you're having yourself, you know, and you know uh do what you please shall be the whole of the law, all that kind of stuff.
And and uh yeah, I I agree.
I uh uh and I think therefore Woodstock, yeah, I mean that was probably the the the the jewel in the crown of their their pretense you know to some extent, you know.
It's a yeah the the people behind this are so utterly cynical.
Somebody pointed that to me the other day on one of the commenters on my telegram channel.
They they printed the lyrics of When I'm 64.
Um When I'm 64 was a song that everyone hated.
It's just like one of the the Beatles wrote some or rather um uh whoever Theod Theodora Dornow or whatever wrote the most terrible tracks for them, but that was really the worst.
It was.
Everyone thinks, well, it's just me, I just just not relating to Paul at his bit at his most whimsical.
And it it's not that.
That song was deliberately written to make the young hate old people.
And they weren't even that old.
I mean, 64, I'm almost 64.
And just every detail of that song, like the name of the grandchildren, Vera, Chuck, and Dave.
Horrible, horrible names they chose.
Because that song drips with contempt for the people who are going to consume that song, for old people, for the young people who are going to be be brainwashed into hating the old people because of this crap song.
It's diabolical genius at work here.
Would you not say that I'd never heard that one before, James, but now that you mention it, I mean you're quite right.
I mean, that's the last kind of song that you would have felt that anybody would write for a for a pop audience.
You know what I mean?
It's it's like absolutely naff.
Um and I thought it was a joke, maybe of Dylan Lenins or something, but you're quite right.
Uh but this is the thing, you know.
But I you know I often think, James, not just are they very cynical, the people who are doing all this, but they're they're actually annoyingly brilliant in many respects.
They are.
Thank you for saying that.
They are brilliant.
This this nonsense that we hear from some people like I refuse to believe that that there could be a conspiracy on this scale because nobody would be capable of of of engineering things to that uh level of detail.
And I'm thinking, well, um see monumentum requiries sickum spicet.
You just like by their works you shall know them.
They're really good at this stuff.
I was actually only saying this morning to a friend of mine, you know, when you look at the various elements of all of this, the way they use the walk thing, the way they kind of do the climate thing, the way that they kind of have all of these things going at the same time and interlocking and working like a clock off each other, you know, tick tick tick tick tick tick, and everything is working simultaneously, and and it all comes out exactly as they must have planned it.
Like we we're all driven demented, and we're at each other's throats, and we're being you know, demonized, and the most bizarre things are happening, like that couldn't have happened 30 years ago, you know, because we had arrived at such a we thought advanced stage of you know evolution and development as a species that we were so sophisticated in our thinking we believed in free speech and we understood that free speech was at the core of democracy and so on.
And the idea that we could end up in a time like this where you know, like a comedy writer is arrested at the airport and dragged off to a cell and held and interrogated to the point of having a seizure of some kind.
You know, like you would say that's really bad novel, you know.
Come on, that's that's that's so Orwellian.
Because they think in terms of half centuries, even certainly decades, but really hard that they think far, far ahead.
That they they plan these they plan everything often a hundred years ahead or more.
Um, here's the thing.
Imagine this is a really interesting task for a great novelist to write a book to imagine when you say they to write a book about them, about they and their daily grind, and what they talk about to each other, and what they spend their time doing.
Do they do this on the phone?
Do they meet in bars or cafes?
Do they meet in each other's houses?
What are they talking about?
Do they have an agenda?
You know, today we're going to discuss, you know, uh the year uh 2067, and you know, uh what we're going to do with all the bodies of the people we've killed.
That's I haven't seen eyes wide shot.
I've I've only seen the final the the final scene on Twitter just now.
Um but I imagine that that shows part of their lives.
I think that they live very compartmentalized lives, um, in the sense that they have different they have fractured personalities because most of these these families have been the the children have been traumatized and their personalities are fractured because they they breed for psychopathy,
they train for psychopaths and and and and offspring that don't fulfil the psychopathic requirements are either bumped off or sent off to the funny farm or whatever or die of drugs overdoses or or car accidents.
Um I think that it's a mi it's just my guess, but I i it's a reasonable inference that part of their lives is spent enjoying lovely they like the Greek island of Hydra, for example.
They like they like kind of ritzy exclusive, th they like Costa Rica, they like uh they like hideaways.
Um they probably like they like art.
They like they like sort of that's their interface, I think, with with the ordinary cattle class, i.e.
us.
They they they sort of they embrace high culture to show that they're not completely uncivilized.
Yes, that their antipathy to the most of the human race is is is is on quite an elevated level.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
Um disposition in the long to the long term benefit of the world and it's and whatever, whoever will remain on it.
But I mean that's these are things I I often think about, James, you know, and and and uh not idly either, you know.
Like what kind of men or women are these?
And are they are they people with with natural human feelings as well as these this these terrible dark sides that they have?
No.
I think not.
I think I think they have a sort of simulacrum of human feelings.
That if if if you and I were to go for a weekend with them, it would be absolutely bloody amazing.
We'd have a great time.
They'd be really charming.
The conversation would be would be pitched at a really interesting level because they've been exposed to so much.
They've they've had a they've been able to engage with all with everything, because that's what money can buy.
Uh they're not stupid, these people.
Um and they're very, very good at well, charm charm is a quality of the devil, isn't it?
Charm is a satanic quality.
It's about deception.
That I think that's that's the the underlying characteristic of charm.
I I don't know, James.
If I was uh w staying for the weekend, uh I'd be inclined to push the bed up against the door, wouldn't you?
I I'm assuming that they they hadn't invited us to kill us.
Um but you you you're you mean they might try to I mean I don't know what you see again I think they have compartmentalized lives.
You you wouldn't get invited, for example, on one of the satanic high days.
You wouldn't get get uh invited on uh whatever they call Halloween, it's got some or Halloween is it.
You you wouldn't get you wouldn't get invited at midsummer because they're busy sacrificing children.
And they do you think that they invite journalists along with like bands invite journalists to spend hang out with them for a couple of days or when they're out in the Riviera or whatever, come on, you just sit hang out and talk to us and we'll write a piece about that.
Would they would they would they invite us along, do you think for that?
You know, the the what they what would we call them?
What would we call them?
I call them the combine, but that's it's a kind of an anodyne and somewhat bland phrase.
You know, you call them the predator class, okay, which is better, I think, in this context.
So we would it would be imagine the article, my weekend with the predator class.
W it would be a gre it would be beneficial to both sides because they would be we'd get a great piece out of it, and they would be engaging in in the revelation of the method, which is karmically, as you know.
Part of their job.
These people are obliged to to yeah to tell us what they're doing.
And they kind of like it.
It's part of the game.
By the way, we've got to talk about that essay you rate in your in your in your book, which I've I've been enjoying very much, um, on I like the one about the COVID nurses, the dancing nurses.
And about the whole thing was a ritual.
Was it yes?
But we'll talk about that later on.
I I'm quite enjoying this this this weekend with with the but you and I have both had experiences where we've been out with mega rich people, some of whom may even have been members of the the cabal or the what is it called the Brotherhood.
I d I th there's a there's a name they call themselves, I can't remember what it is, it's something like the Brotherhood I don't know, I I I didn't know the the the Illuminati, no, it's not the Illuminati.
Well they I think they don't call themselves the Illuminati, although that is essentially what they are.
But there's that wonderful feeling, isn't there, when you're with very rich people, very, very rich people, and you're trying to oddly enough make them feel comfortable, making you feel comfortable.
So you don't want to be seen to be too impressed by things.
Yeah.
Because then they'll say so.
You put on this false air, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I I will have some Chateau de Chem with my Yeah, yeah, sure, that would that would do, yeah, whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you and you pretend to be relaxed because they which people are I find are always relaxed, uh, you know, they they yeah, and and um so you you have to kind of pretend that you're chilling all the time when in fact you're frantic in some ways that you're gonna be able to do it.
About how to be more relaxed.
Yes, and also how to be on how to be on top of your game conversationally and stuff, and live to every every detail of the scenario you've you're trapped in.
And there's that awful moment that sometimes happens, and maybe more often than we'd like when you say something utterly stupid, right?
And they all turn and look at you.
Do you all have one?
But yes, I do, but the the you think about it, we shouldn't beat ourselves up about those moments.
Was why why the hell should we be on under any onus to have to police ourselves?
I'll tell you the funniest one that happened to me, uh uh James was once when I was on the plane with you two, going from Dublin to uh uh I think it was Glasgow, and uh you know, I I was you know, as you do,
I was sitting with the band talking uh to to Mono and Edge and and and uh uh Lar and uh the the uh Adam uh Larry never spoke to me really uh but uh and and and I we're having an interesting conversation, you know, and then they the plane it would land it, and oh just it's full of roadies and everything, and they all got out the back door, but I was sitting starting talk still talking to everybody's taking their luggage down and disappearing.
Next thing there was just me and the foreign band members left in the playing.
So I got my stuff out, you know, and got it all ready to go, and the boys all got this.
And then just as I was walking down the to the door, they were ahead of me.
I glanced out one of the windows, and there was about five hundred photographers standing just in front of the steps that I was about to walk on to with John Paul, George and Ringo, right and Bert.
So I had to run out the back door frantically.
Uh but that's the kind of thing that you do when you're hanging out with those kind of guys.
Uh, because you forget because they're so they try so hard to be normal that they persuade you that you're the same as them.
But of course you never are.
No, and the stuff going on underneath that that are this person I mentioned actually, the one that who sent the um the when I'm 64 lyrics, she quite often posts the lyrics of songs.
And ranging from Dave Pesh mode to early Genesis.
There's a there's a there's a there's a Genesis song called Many Too Many, and it's quite it's quite early on in their career.
And uh a lot of these lyrics are clearly um SOS messages contained in the songs is the story of the terrible things they had to they've had to do to get their get where they are.
I think if if you look at the the Radiohead Just video as well, that's been analysed and and and people have found the the basically any band which gets beyond a certain level has made the pact, been given their marching orders, and and and it's horribly constrained.
You wouldn't want to be these people in a million years.
This this is really interesting.
Uh uh, you know, it's very interesting when you hear a version of the lyrics of a song that just is so amazing.
This happened.
What was that most famous Queen song?
What's it called?
Well Bohemian Rhapsody.
Bohemian Rhapsody, yeah.
Which is all about that.
It's all about it's you know, uh I killed a man, put a gun against his head, pull the trigger, now he's dead.
That's about initiating another man in homosexuality.
That's what it is.
And I I was talking to a guy in America who's done an amazing analysis of it.
And when your jaw would just drop, I'll send it on to you.
I have it somewhere.
It's absolutely extraordinary that this is actually a confession by Freddie Mercury of his absolute dismay at ending up in this condition and wishing it weren't so.
And asking for forgiveness for you know effect you know, impl influencing other other young men and so on.
It's an amazing analysis.
And and every single word of the song begins to make a new sense.
Because actually the song doesn't make any sense if you just listen to it for for the words in in as random lines.
It doesn't tie together at all.
When you hear it like this, you say, Oh my god, that's it.
I have to say, when we were listening to it at my all-boys public school, um in in the we all had Queen and Night at the opera.
It was it was it was great.
And we were we mostly weren't buggering each other, so we were we were actually quite innocent.
Um we just thought it was just like, yeah, the crazy stuff that rock singers sing about, and it was operatic and it's not, you know, and it may well be very much hooked into what you're saying there as well, James, that you know, Freddie had to go through some kind of test in order to come out to be the star he became.
Sure he did.
Sure he did.
They they all do.
Do you uh do you know about Stairway to Heaven?
Vaguely, yes, I know it's supposed to be a satanic, yeah.
I think I think the lady is uh is someone who is considered to be well one of the chief baddies.
Um I didn't even know I dare say her name.
It's a bit like saying Voldemort.
Um I'm not gonna say her name.
I'm not gonna say her name because it's actually really quite scary.
But but this woman has based in Scotland has very, very dark powers.
When you when you when you start looking into this, it does get quite quite chilling.
Um but I was also thinking about um Hotel California.
Which is so obviously satanic.
And yet and it yet equally one of the great songs.
I mean, you can't listen to Hotel California, the slow build intro and everything.
And that guitar.
I mean, uh you you can actually make an argument that that is the greatest guitar solo.
Yeah.
It is.
It's a spectacular song.
Uh and they fired the guy who wrote, I forget his name.
They fired him from the band not long afterwards.
Did they?
He was looking for more money.
I forget his name.
He they were going on tour again, and they're the old guys were put playing themselves twice as much as as the new guys, and he was one of the new guys, and he said, Well, no, I'm I'm in the band and I'm I write songs, and I'm writing I've written your best song and your most famous song, so you know, and then they fired him.
But so much of so much of the songs of these great songs is in is in the production, isn't it?
And the arrangement and everything, everything about it.
That song was arranged to be one of the greatest pop songs ever.
And all songs, all songs, James, are about tone and sound and voice.
I mean, you think of any song you love, it has an idiosyncratic voice.
That that you know, you know, you can imitate other inferior singers can imitate it, but what you're actually hearing is the original in your head while it's been murdered in front of you, you know.
Like the this the voices of these singers, the distinctive voices, Lennon, like for example, had that particular he wasn't just a singer, he had he had a voice that was John Lennon, that was his personality, you know, and that's not a very common thing, you know.
It's it's not about technical skill, it's not about you know uh uh having a melodic voice or anything like that.
It's it's it's It's a personality thing.
And that's what a lot of the great pop songs, the great hits.
You know, I can't.
I mean, you never can think of examples when you're saying something like this.
But uh, you know, virtually any song you want to think about that is really stand out.
You think, oh, it's that song.
If I if even if I'm reasonably good singer sang it, it wouldn't sound the same.
You wouldn't think you wouldn't listen to it twice.
This is why I think that a sort of it's not misplaced to talk about the supernatural element in in this.
You know, you know that the one of the singers from Boyzone, I think it was, has talked about this, how the industry is so into the occult that they they do kind of chanting for to the dark forces for for records to do well and stuff.
I think there was an an evil alchemy that takes place on the really great Stairway to Heaven and Hotel California would be two examples of this.
That there is the the songs are fantastically attractive, and yet at the same time there's something uh uneasy about them.
Yes, it makes you feel that there's something slightly off off about them, and it puts you in an odd state.
It's a bit like it's a bit like cocaine, actually, where the drug that that leaves you longing for more, but uh more of what you're not quite sure.
It doesn't actually never quite delivers, never gets you there, just wants you wants you wanting more of it.
Okay.
Okay.
Now I want to just mention a name now that might get us into an argument uh with each other here.
But I I have I have a particular um thing about this this name.
And and uh don't jump to any conclusions now.
Bob Dylan.
Now, I just want to say this first.
There's that 16 minutes clip that keeps going around where Dylan talks about again, it's resonating with that.
Yes.
But in the very same interview, these are the part they never attached to the other to he says God is the judge.
Right?
Only f only a few minutes four minutes, five minutes before.
He says, God is the judge.
He's talking about the media and the way they go after him for saying he says, God is the judge.
Now, it seems to me that that commander thing did the very beginning of that actually, he talks, he says something very interesting.
He there's if they show up images of him standing by the whaling wall on up against the wall, and he's talking about this, and he describes that he says that he deliberately did that in order to throw people off the scent of this idea of you know, profit of the generation of his generation type of thing, which he hated.
And he went to the wailing wall, he says, particularly to have people accuse him of being a Zionist, because he thought at least that will actually have the benefit of getting rid of the other narrative, right?
So he does play these games, and if you read his book, which is called I Can't Remember now, he wrote a uh he wrote one volume of an autobiography, which is was supposed to be two, and never the second never came.
Uh Chronicles.
Chronicles one, it was called.
And he wrote about this that he never wanted to be the spokesman for his generation.
He never wanted to be.
Now that's the first evidence I would use.
The second evidence was that he did three albums in the late 70s, early 80s, which were Christian albums.
And he seems to continue to this day to be a Christian.
Yet this clip keeps showing up, and you people they don't they refuse to take they always take it out of context.
I I don't I think it was a either a a slip of the tongue, he was talking about God again, or else it was that he was winding people up, as he often does.
What do you think?
I don't think that um the the two things are inconsistent.
It would be perfectly I'm not saying you're right, but it would be a perfectly reasonable argument to say that Bob Dylan was outlining the nature of the contract that all pop musicians, rock musicians have to sign.
Uh and that this had been kind of these these are the contractual obligations that he had to fulfill.
But it's entirely possible that he genuinely has decided to break that contract or to try to, a bit like a bit like Johnny Cash did in his last in his because you look at all Johnny Cash's later albums, his American recording stuff, particularly the the the last the very last ones.
Um sooner or later he's gonna cut you down.
Uh um all the all these songs about about the devil and about God and and stuff.
Johnny Cash was clearly repenting for his earlier career and trying to make his peace with God and saying, Please God, can you can you get me out of this deal that that I signed?
And I don't know, I I've been talking to people on podcasts about this, whether presumably always as uh the options open to you to ask God's help, ask for for Jesus' help at the end, and you can kind of undo all the damage that you've or at least pace the way on doing the damage.
Yes, it's interesting.
You see, the the the issue that Dylan was addressing in that when he talked about the commander of the world uh thing was the way that songs came to him, songs that he'd written earlier in his life, you know, but in the mid-sixties, I think.
Which they just he says that they just popped out, they just basically appeared.
Yes, which I I mean that that they were satanically inspired, basically, because that business okay, I come back to that point, that's possible, but uh uh but then that may have implied some kind of uh Faustian pact or whatever.
But I think at the same time, there's another possible explanation.
You know, like the unconscious, whatever that is in humanity is actually a source of enormous riches for creative people if they can tap into it.
You know, uh there's a great book that came out with 50 years ago, a woman called Dorothea Brand, an American writer, and it was called Becoming a Writer, I think, something like that, becoming a writer.
And she what she describes is a process, how the writer, creative writer, should to, in order to to train the unconscious almost like an animal, to deliver the things that you you that it has that you want as a writer.
And what she decides is that you she says you should always get up first thing in the morning when you wake up when you're still in the liminal state, and you're still in the dream state, and and go have a place to work at your work, a desk, and go straight there, don't have coffee, don't stop at all, just go and sit there.
And you start this process off, and she says by simply going there in the morning, and you m you will not write anything for the first ten days, a hundred days, whatever.
But if you keep doing that, she says, with the intention of instructing your unconscious to deliver.
It will eventually do so.
So, in a sense, that could also be what Dylan is talking about, those kind of processes, because there are other ways of doing that as well.
I mean, there's a guy called Joseph Murph Murphy, an Irish uh psychiatrist, psychologist there from the 50s, who talks about quite a few of his videos online, and he talks, and he's an extraordinarily religious man.
And he talks about actually that it is possible to train your unconscious to do things for you, and never mind just deliver things to you, but actually to change reality in accordance with your needs.
Because he says the world is abundant and there is no reason for you to be poor or to be lacking anything if you simply can regulate your unconscious in the correct way.
So, in other words, there is more, yeah, I guess it's there are more things in heaven and earth, blah blah.
But uh I think that Dylan, yeah, it's it is plausible, I agree.
It is plausible that he actually did some point made a deal and then regretted it, and that maybe that those Christian albums were an attempt to purge that deal.
That's a possibility.
Obviously, one can never know because it's it's all happens in in secret, but I don't think anyone gets to be um at Dylan's level without signing the pact.
I think that's just just the deal.
Uh I mean, it's much more obvious today when you look at a doja cat video or whatever.
It's it's pure demonic.
I mean, there are probably actual demons in those videos that that they don't make any pretense that that their concerts and their videos aren't occult occult rituals.
It was much more it was much more innocent in in the in when Dylan was playing those those cafes and uh those dives in New York and stuff.
I was thinking earlier on, we're talking about the Beatles, and you could See that when we're talking about how they plan things in fifty years or a hundred years, that in order to get the public where they are now, we had to have several revolutions in the from the 60s onwards, didn't we?
We had to sort of create this world where there was this massive division, ideological cultural division between parents and children.
Um and we had to we we had to invent the concept of the teenager, we had to inv we had to introduce sex and drugs and and and you look at the you look at the the that that transition from Love Love Me Do Innocence to the Maharishi and uh Lucy in the sky with diamonds, oh yeah, it was something my daughter wrote on a picture.
Yeah, right.
Well all this stuff.
So so that they had to accelerate us through this this process where we get to be at where we are now, where your kids are being uh indoctrinated with with Satanism when whenever they go to attend a Swift concert or whatever.
Yes, yes.
Uh just a one final word in in uh on the Dylan thing, uh which just and I watch him a lot.
I I mean I love I love certain aspects of his music, some some of his songs are astonishingly great.
Uh and I just love the band that he has now and all that.
So I watch a lot on on YouTube, like which is an amazing thing to watch the guy singing and playing, and it's an amazing thing.
But I just say this that I've noticed about him that he at every opportunity that seems to be not not in any way deliberate or calculating, he refers to God all the time.
Uh like for example, he the the director of and I forget his name of the the movie uh Complete Unknown uh was describing how he had shown the script to Dylan and asked him for his he made some comments about it and even suggested a couple of additional scenes.
But when they met for the last time uh for Dylan to sign off on the project, he signed it uh Bob Dylan, Go with God.
And that he tells me that whatever happened back then is got is is in his mind purged.
It is not any longer, if it did happen, it is no longer uh uh affecting his life.
Well, this is where you and I can lightly disagree disagree, which is that I'm not saying that I'm the ultimate arbiter of authority on the conspiracy realm.
I I always take all my positions as as until proved otherwise, basically.
So I'm I'm I I don't I don't set myself up as a guru.
But I find myself increasingly drawn to the position that anyone who achieves a certain level of fame, definitely in the music industry, definitely in the m in the movie industry, is compromised to a degree, and the same in politics.
I mean I I I know you you took issue with um uh my take on on on Trump.
I you don't get to be you don't get to be US president and uh and and be a goodie.
That even even the ones we thought were good is or what I I thought were good is like good old Ronnie Reagan, wise cracking Ronnie Reagan.
I mean he was just that was his assigned role.
You are gonna be the wise cracking president who uh in the guise of being a kind of relaxed sort of small government person introduces all these horrors like or allows on your watch to Iran contract.
Okay, what about this?
What about the Kennedys?
Given that in a certain sense the narrative that we in the terms of the United States, America, uh it sort of started the the dark narrative that we're dealing with now, this episode of it, this flicker seems to have started with the assassination of Kennedy.
That was the first real uh conspiracy theory theory of the modern era.
And and and then you see, now I had a thought about this.
You may have noticed.
Uh but uh I do think, you know, I mean, as Irish people, we adore the Kennedys.
We adore particularly Jack.
And and Bobby.
I I uh Kennedy Bobby was my because I was younger and not the dad.
Not Joe Kennedy.
Oh no, not no, no, we know that's true.
I'm not sure how we factored him out or how we managed that, but we did.
Uh But you see, but here's the thing.
When you then look at some of the other stuff, there's a dark side to or appears to be, and it only occurred to me this morning as a question.
How much how much of the actual stuff about the kind of You know the the Don Quanism of the Kennedys and the very dark sides that are uh attributed to that?
Um was actually a smear created by the CIA.
Is that a possibility?
I don't know.
Or were they, you know.
Um I suppose you could say excessively human.
Uh you know, uh they were powerful, they had opportunities and they took them.
Who knows?
I don't know.
What do you think of the Kennedys?
Are are they good guys or bad guys?
Well, um I have to break the news to you.
That the candidates Kennedy is one of the uh the twelve satanic bloodlines identified by um uh Fritz Springmeyer, Kennedy, Collins, Van Dyne, DuPont, Rockefeller, etc.
Uh Lee.
Um so Kennedy would have had all the bloodline families have a sort of simple you know, we you you were asking earlier what what's it like to be with these people?
Where where do they where do they you know what they do for fun?
I think that on that level you are probably going to be exposed at a very early age to stuff that would absolutely do your head in.
Um do people exposed to that system, do they occasionally malfunction?
Could could could somebody from that background yet turn out to be the kind of the saviour of the world as Kennedy tried to be?
Possibly.
I'm not I'm not ruling it out.
There's lots and lots and lots about the Kennedy thing that that makes no sense to me.
I mean, for example, he had this reputation as a ladies man, well, he was screamingly gay, that the the the evidence suggests.
So that so these women he was having affairs with were just basically beards.
Um so he was living a massive lie.
Um I just don't know.
I mean i it it seems to me from what I can piece together with the various conspiracy theories surrounding his death, that one of the reasons he was oft was because he questioned the the the influence of Israel and so the Israelis had something to do with it along with the mafia and the the the CIA and the deep state and and so on.
Yes.
So it sounds like he went down fighting for our cause, but you just kind of don't know, do you?
I mean the the No, and if if now here's a question for you, James.
If if it you accept the possibility that Kennedy may have been inclined to become a good guy to go against this whole thing.
Is the same thing not possible with Trump?
Well I suppose in terms of uh no, I don't think it is.
Because I'll tell you, I'll tell you why.
Um the iconomic iconography and imagery that he associates himself with uh is essentially dark occult.
He's he's an Apollo worshipper, uh he's got all these occultic symbols on his Trump Tower and stuff.
He's the the fake assassination attempt, and it was a well there were I think there were several, but the the one the one in Butler, Pennsylvania, where he he goes down and and then magically when he he recovers from the pile of security of uh guards who mysteriously allow him free even though it's a a live fire zone,
you could be shot at any moment, and he comes up with this streak of uh of blood on his face.
I I don't think somebody who engages in that level of fakery willingly, obviously, well obviously a complicit is our guy.
Um my other big tell for Trump, I mean this is this has been the big tell for a lot of people that he's a Roman is Operation Warp Speed, which I know now tactically he's sort of slightly retreating from saying, Well, is there something I should know about the COVID vaccines that I didn't know at the time when I pushed them?
Yes, I saw that the other day.
That's all part of the script.
I don't know.
Well that's got me, James.
That that's what I was coming to, actually.
I was going to say to you.
Was that isn't that it kind of like, you know, you've got this massive juggernaut out on the on the tarmac outside your house, you know, and you you can't turn it.
So you're gonna have to start.
Well, one day you're gonna have to start.
It's gonna take a 35-point turn to get around.
So this is the first maneuver, is it not?
To get himself out of this stuff.
So it's a that they say that Trump plays what is it, 5D chess.
Say the people who want to believe that Trump is a good thing despite the evidence, are playing sort of 8D chess.
Yeah.
No, the reason that the reason that you you you've got to understand this.
The reason that Trump allowed the killing of X million American people or the maiming thereof with these uh experimental drugs procedures that they didn't have to take.
The reason he had to kill those people is because he was outwitting so and so.
I I hear these, I I don't really I'm not persuaded by them.
Yeah, the the the narrow the the yarn is that uh he was he was informed or he learned that the plan was that the the pr the predator the combine the predator class they their plan was to lock the world down for ten years and that the only way he had of of averting this was to go ahead with some kind of program for vaccines and that was why he initiated warp speed.
Uh now that's maybe slightly plausible up to a certain point, but it ceases to be plausible to me anyway, when he keeps going on about his beautiful vaccines like four years later and and they've killed like millions of people.
I mean uh uh Ed Ed Dowd says it's somewhere between seven and fifteen million worldwide uh that have died as a result of these vaccines.
And and that that seems to be implicit in what he's now raising, the hair he's raised now in terms of well, can Pfizer show me the facts that they you know, how come they're not they're telling me stuff and they're not telling anybody else, you know?
What was the ma the the top figure?
Uh 15 uh Ed Dowd says so that the the worldwide uh uh death toll is somewhere between seven million and fifteen million.
That is that is quite a lot.
Not up there with their best record, which is for the first and second world wars, but but but heading in that direction.
Yeah, it is, it's a lot, and we're they're not finished yet, obviously.
Like, because I mean these these deaths are in a certain sense programmed into the vaccine, which make uh over years and years.
I mean, they're still happening.
In fact, they're escalating now, as far as like in Ireland, they they they were kind of steadily around 16-17% excess deaths for the last four or five years.
But but they're now something like 30%, according to a coroner's report that is a guy called Patrick E. Walsh has been investigating this very, very well here.
And and that's the latest now.
So that's that's in the last year.
So like far from it kind of tailing off, it's actually uh escalating.
The other thing um that makes me very suspicious about Trump is his relation his relations with Israel, uh but also his relations with Palantir and organizations like that.
That he seems to be his his job is to is to bring in the next stage of the technocratic revolution, the transhumanist agenda and so on.
That's I can't I can't quibble with that because uh you know that first day in the White House, like literally the first day of his presidency, he had those guys, Sam Altman and all those guys, palantier guys, and in talking about not just uh AI but the MRNA uh cures, etcetera, so called.
Uh and of course, uh Peter Thiel is a very dark force in the world, and and his closeness, his proximity to Vance and to the third administration is profoundly worrying.
Um He claims to be a Christian, doesn't he?
He claims to be a Christian, but you know you know the anagram of his name.
Uh go on, tell me.
Peter Thiel.
Oh Hitler sorry, Hitler.
No, no, yeah.
No, no.
No.
The reptile.
Oh, the reptile, sorry.
The reptile.
Huh?
It is a weird name when I think about it.
It's not a normal name, is it?
No, it isn't.
And when you look them up, there's very little information about him as a young man or as a as a childhood or anything like that.
It's he you know, so you know, one of these days, James, he might kind of just go like that, you know, and and and pull off the old uh gold cap and Yeah, well, where are you on that?
I mean, are you is is that I I I don't well I I find it I'll tell you what I find about feel about all that, James, is this, and I don't go much further than this.
That as a metaphor, it clicks in to everything.
That when you actually look at the demeanour of politicians now, and you say, why have these people changed so much?
Why do they now hate their own peoples?
Why are they so contemptuous?
And and and then you think, well, I'm not saying this is true, but if they had turned into lizards, you would say, ah, well, okay, that explains it.
You know, you know, that that that as a metaphor, it's it corresponds to the evidence we can see.
Whether or not it's literally the case is another question.
Well, you see, just going taking a step back, you know, you you were sort of quizzing me on Dylan and quizzing me on my take on Trump.
And I think that sometimes you can get too bogged down in the weeds.
I mean, you've described how when listening to conspiracy theories about the Beatles, you found some details irritating because you don't you uh you're not buying them.
And of course that is that is how they the people who run the world want it.
They want you sort of getting getting cross about you s sort of almost arguing against conspiracy theories on logical grounds.
Uh and I I look at it the other way.
Um I always go for the big picture, pattern recognition.
So I don't necessarily need to know much about Bob Dylan to know the generality of how they the people who run the world arrange things.
So we know that the music industry, popular music, even from the early days, I mean jazz was designed to get black people hooked on drugs, uh um out of regular jobs and and to cr sort of create this sort of sexual and and racial tension between black people and white people, etc.
etcetera.
Gangster rap was invented to put more black people in pr in prison.
Heavy metal was designed to turn young boys into into mini Satanists.
Um the Beatles was invented to divide generations and and to get people into drugs and uh i it it's i i etc.
Um it's all about problem reaction and s uh solution.
So you don't need to examine Trump too closely to see what his function would be in the matrix or whatever you want to call it.
So you've got Joe Biden and incontinent child stroking puppet, probably played by several people in masks.
His job is is actually not dissimilar to the one that Keir Starmer is performing now in in in England, which is to be so bad, so embarrassingly lamentably demonstrably bad, that even his former fans think he's the most shit leader ever, and they're just embarrassed by it by him.
So then comes the saviour, the Donald, the Farage.
And their job is to sweep up, and people are going to be so grateful that somebody has taken over after this four years of complete shite.
They won't mind that that there's suddenly digital IDs and stuff.
I get it, I get it, James, but it's awfully tiring, isn't it?
It just goes round and round and and and so here is my question.
I mean, do you think there's any into this?
I mean, is it possible, do you think?
I mean, I'm not this is an impossible question, maybe to to answer.
Is it possible for human forces to combat this?
I not not on their own, no.
No, I don't.
I I mean I've got quite into my Bible in the last in the last few years.
And it's not just because I because I think it's a good read, but because I think it's quite a useful instruction manual of how to survive in the in in the world where which is essentially run by the devil, um by God's permission.
And you get all these I mean I I I can't I can't work out what revelation means exactly in in it in every detail.
But I do get this impression that what's being played out now is the end game in this supernatural war between good and evil.
And you you you mentioned that the the the lizard people.
Um the Bible is that it seems to provide the grand overarching explanation as to what's happening.
So I think, and this is just my working theory based on reading the Bible and reading listening to people talking about it in a scholarly way, um, is that the badis are the descendants of the Nephilim,
the fallen angels, and God's always had it had beef with these people because they're rebels and and they're not and and he knew they were he he knew they were the enemy of his creation, which is which is us, son of man.
And we the war between God and his rebel angels is being played out in the supernatural realm and here on earth.
And yeah, that's basically it.
So look, here's a question for you, James.
I'm not trying to set any traps, I'm just kinda trying to explore this, because like the idea of we are told that God is both all-loving and all-powerful.
Now, how do we resolve this in the present situation whereby if I can say this as delicately as possible, God le seems to be relatively helpless before the evil that's now confronts him and us.
I think how it works is that because he's God and he knows everything, he's he's worked out that look, I'm gonna create these amazing people in my image.
Um unless I give them the option of choosing between good and evil, um they're essentially going to be why I I describe them as NPCs, you know, non-player characters in a video game.
They're just gonna be there's gonna be going around the the Garden of Eden like like tele tell it up is saying uh oh, you know, and put their handbags or just uh it's having just like not really functioning as as uh uh intellectual, thought thoughtful, sentient beings.
So God recognises that the price for giving us this freedom uh to to make our lives meaningful is that he has to accept that the we're gonna we're gonna have this this horrible scenario played out where terrible things happen, awful, awful, the nature of evil.
But evil is what makes is what gives goodness its meaning.
Goodness would have no meaning without evil.
So it it it's a sort of it's a sort of necessary it's it's the corollary of freedom.
And there's no way round it.
If you if you can w if you can tell me a a better way that God could have done it than all is yeah, yeah, you can't have dark without light or life without dark, yeah.
Yeah, uh no, I get that.
But you see, I think the one difference between with heaven yourself, James, is this I think that you have come to terms more readily.
I'm not saying this as a criticism at all, or uh it was nothing uh with the existence of evil, as I say.
Than I have.
I remember I I actually remember once I I joined AA years ago.
I and and I started learning prayers because I'd forgotten all the prayers I knew.
And one of the prayers was an acceptance prayer.
I don't remember what he thought, but there was a phrase in it which says, you know, that I came to accept this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it.
That that was the line, right?
And I used to stop.
I used to say when I say that line to myself, I used to stop and say, ah, Jesus is not that bad.
You know?
That kind of sentiment.
I said, I that I'm I'm it sounded to me like an exaggeration in the context of the world that I had known all my life, right?
Now I knew there was awful things that happened in history, but that was history.
Or that was another place, a strange place like Germany or Russia or China.
This is Ireland in which bad things might happen, but they were not that l level of gravity type of thing.
I don't know.
If I give it that even that amount of thought.
I I actually don't believe I I understood evil until the last two years.
I glimpsed the gravity of it or and and the seriousness of it, and they the omnipot the omniscience or what are you the omnipresence of it in the world.
Everywhere.
And that it infects everything.
It affects everything now in our institutions of the of our countries, uh, our cultures.
Um everything is twisted.
And so and I still have to really remind myself on a daily basis that that phenomenon exists.
Because you know, I find myself lapsing into all kinds of rationales for why things are happening.
And I I you know, then I then I think, oh yeah, demonic stuff, yeah, put that in as well.
And that sort of clarifies everything, obviously.
But at the same time, I don't have an insight.
I know do you have.
Can you describe to me what is the essence of evil?
Like, because it it's a word, demonic is the word.
But they're they're not words, they're not on a on a meta pick or you know.
Well, we know it when we say it, don't we?
Or when we smell it.
Yeah, when we feel it.
We feel it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
One of the symptoms of that I feel of evil is that it is completely incomprehensible.
I don't understand it.
When I see something that is downright evil, I I I find myself, you know, uh perplexed.
How did they do that?
How how could they actually go through that?
I mean, a minor example will be like the the arrest of Graham Lennihan uh uh there the other day.
Um you know, he's a guy who writes jokes.
He wrote a duke a slightly funny line on on on uh Twitter, the kind of line that anybody might say in a pub at any on the evening of the week.
And he gets five cops coming with armed cops coming to meet him at the airport and drag him in and interrogate him.
Like there's an evil there somewhere.
I'm not saying it's any of the five guys.
They may think they were just doing jobs and maybe we're into the banana.
But it's evil, John it's evil if it's as described, but it's almost even more evil if this is yet another psyop, if if the police have been put up to this as part of this, because you see, I see the um Graham Linehan arrest as as part of this Lucy Connolly thing.
That the what's what's Farage going to do?
He's gonna gone to America to talk to the talk to our new our new overlords, basically, or what's you know we're we're supposed to be angry about this stuff, and and that's even that's almost more scary than it if if idiot policemen have just arrested this guy because I think they've got sleep.
Okay.
I can't rule that out, and I and I I I've heard this the thesis and it's our hypothesis, and it is it does have a certain validity.
Uh at the same time, I have seen police doing appalling things uh almost like off their own bat.
Um and I mean that strikes me as beer.
We have had great opportunities to observe that kind of evil in the last few years.
You know, small fry doing big evil things, uh whether it's in g in giving injections or you know, telling lies on the media, or uh, you know, um whatever politicians.
I was thinking we w will come at evil with with life, I'll have had a cup of tea by the time because I'm starting to flag, but I was thinking this this this this isn't um this isn't irrelevant.
The your piece about the games that we were forced to play.
That Covid was like a giant game that we were forced to play in, and there were two categories.
There were those th the ones who who who participated who who obeyed the rules and the ones what what did you call them?
Spoil sports.
What?
The spoil sports.
Spoil sports, exactly.
And watching from the perspective of of a a spoil sport, this game, the the games that were being forced on us, and and and that people were uh the phrase Hitler's willing executioners comes to mind, even that's just a cliche, but you know what I mean?
That that lots of people participated in these games with a zeal that was really quite unhealthy.
And I was at the uh receiving end of it.
I I you know I know people who've been beaten up, beaten up for not wearing masks.
That kind of thing.
Well you see, yeah, you see that's that's the logic, James, that I was trying to get at.
And I mean I had a lot of help.
I read a lot of books on the subject of games and and and play, in order to kind of arrive at this uh thesis.
Um which is that they actually understood that uh at a deep level the human being is programmed to play.
That it's like one of the hardwired things in us, the most hardwired.
In fact, animals play as well, so it's it's right across the board, and even insects apparently and fish and all.
So like so and the thing about games, James, is that well, one of the things about games is that there are rules for all games.
And there's no point in having a when you hear about the rules of a game are, you know, with your nieces or nephews or whatever, you don't start to argue philosophically against the rules.
You know, you don't argue in terms of the world, the real world.
You say, okay, that's the world there.
So I know what the rule is and I will obey it.
That's the in understanding.
Unless you want to be to wind them up or something and be a spoil sport.
But uh the the so we were presented with these bizarre root rituals and games uh in which everybody was somehow being transported into that mentality.
Because you know, you've seen, you know, your your your your crazy uh brother-in-law who can't bear to lose a game of table tennis, right?
And and starts arguing over everything, you know, uh or whatever, uh and goes ballistic.
That so once you get people into that z that game zone, you br you're you're you're summarying all those instincts and and responses.
And that's what you were seeing there.
Those people weren't speaking to you as James Delling Paul in the real world.
They were speaking to you as this guy in the game who wasn't playing it properly, who was trying to mess it up by being a spoiler sport.
You see?
And that's why they attacked you.
They didn't mean it uh as an attack on you personally, it was you by because you were britt you were not alone.
You see, the cheat is one thing, the but the cheat is much more acceptable than the spoil sport because the cheat wants to win the game.
Yeah.
By any means.
But the spoil sport wants to s destroy the game, and that's what you were trying to do.
And these people instinctively knew that, and it was an act of defense of the game that they were playing.
In the same way as if your nephews would start if you were if they saw you trying to pull a fast one with shuffling the deck or whatever, they would call you out on it and say and be quite, you know, direct with you about it.
It's the same thing.
So that's this is the gene you see, we talked earlier the genius of these people.
Like it is extraordinary being evil genius.
Evil genius.
Evil genius.
And I mean the thing then, you see, as I say in that chapter, I describe the the dancing nurses, which is what set the entire tone for the satanic the title of the chapter is Satanic Playground.
That that was that was the meaning of the dancing nurses.
There it has no other possible meaning.
That you know they wanted to c to suggest two things.
One that this is some fun this is fun.
This is a kind of game.
But it's a very dark game.
Because remember, they weren't just dancing, they were dancing around with blow-up coffins on their shoulders.
Oh, I mean like the the the NHS sorry, the the NHS and the Olympics, the London Olympics open.
Yeah, exactly.
In 2012, the same thing.
That was well.
Yeah, which was probably built into the whole pro plan.
Who knows?
Oh sure.
Yeah.
So and and then you when you think when you go through it like and look at the kind of bizarre, and people say, well, uh, you know, in Ireland, I don't know if you had this in the UK, but uh, you know, there was a rule about you could have a drink in a pub, provided you bought a nine euro meal.
Right.
Now that's that's that's straight out of that's straight out of a game and risk of rules.
You say right.
Yeah, and and so you can imagine somebody looking up the rules and saying, No, it says nine euros.
You know, you only had eight fifty.
So that doesn't count.
You're not allowed to go into the room without your face covering because you only had an 850 meal.
So, you know, you're out of the game now.
You've just actually disqualified yourself.
You know, that kind of thing.
That was the logic.
It's amazing.
But people thought of the rules in two different ways.
While they were in this kind of trance of the game, they were playing the game.
Yeah.
But outside of that, it was deadly serious.
And the nine euro mean meal meant something quite different.
You're right.
It was a serious rule.
And they brought that gravity out of the game into reality with them.
The gravity that they attached to those things as per the rules, they brought out into reality as this is a serious matter.
You think, you know, what you what's so funny about a nine euro meal?
It's perfectly reasonable of the government to insist that you know if you go in, you're going to have to have a meal and it has to be a substantial, and at the very least it should be is nine euros.
Of course.
You're right.
Another brilliant touch was getting people uh d did you have an equivalent in Ireland?
Getting people to bang their pots and pans for the NHS.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, myself and my wife were caught with that when uh literally about the first week we're walking off the street one evening, and they were all out with their pots and pans and banging.
And we were on the far side of the road, like just look looking at them in absolute disbelief.
And and as we passed, you could hear one of them say to the other.
And they didn't even smile.
They didn't even smile.
Huh.
You spoil sport.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
I I I don't know how I would have negotiated that horror because I I I live somewhere reasonably away from from other people, so I was never exposed to that that pressure.
But there was a there was a wonderful uh lady um on this I had on this podcast, she she's she's she's dead now, she called Liz.
And Liz lived in this in this road in in um in Barnes in in West London.
And their road was went mad for the pots and pans, and Liz Liz was really into it and thought it was very charming and stuff.
And I was thinking quite a large number of people um who were were dragooned into into this this ritual felt much as I do about stuff, that they they they think that the the NHS is a kind of sclerotic socialistic mumolith that should have been scrapped years ago and this it's a kill machine and stuff,
and but to to live in a street where everyone else is doing it, it it's again that this is sort of psychological manipulation on a Tavistock Institute level.
Totally.
And and as I say, you know, if you can imagine that different zone, this game zone that you go into, and all the gravity of the game is is accrues to you there.
And then you bring that out into the real world, even though it's not any longer a game, it's actually reality.
And the same pressure is on you.
That's ingenious to do that.
It's an intricate kind of dance dance, which which is like it it shows a level of I suppose reading contemplation.
I've never read anywhere that that it says those things.
I I've never read that thing about the game.
I mean, I've read several books about which talk about...
One book is a guy called Seekheart.
And I...
...and I've read several books about the book.
So here's the terrible thing.
My wife um who normally brings me tea, fails.
And so I had to go and make my own.
Oh when you disappeared.
So I hate it.
It's unacceptable.
It's unacceptable, James.
I hope it doesn't happen too often.
Well it won't happen again because I made my displeasure perfectly clear.
It's unreasonable.
I mean, I think it const constitutes cruel and unusual behaviour.
But I couldn't, you know.
Um it says your recording has stopped due to incoming call.
Is that because you are you on your phone?
I just stopped the call there.
Yeah.
Why did I stop?
I didn't mean to stop the recording.
No, no, no.
I think it doesn't like it doesn't like um phone calls and shit like that.
It's um anyway.
We'll say yeah.
So I like the is it going again now?
I think so.
Yeah, so it it's been recording.
I'm I'm just hoping it all uploads.
I'm I I I I never I can never be caught.
Yeah, because it it it was sending me frantic messages there for a couple of minutes saying, you know, but you I could hear you and you seem to be able to hear me, so I don't know what that was all about.
I really really like your theory, which I'm sure is on the money about that games thing explains everything.
And it does.
It does right.
People were put in the mindset of games plays because they knew that they were participating in a fantasy, because they knew that the mask didn't work.
They knew that it was the equivalent of a trying to keep out mosquitoes with a with a with a tennis net and and uh and stuff with with tennis wire.
Yes.
Um and yet they carried on doing it.
They didn't w why do you think that we d we we were we didn't go for it.
Oh uh I I I don't know, James.
Uh I I I think I like games a lot.
I like I like the rules of games.
I mean I get very cross when people play the free parking variant on Monopoly, for example.
Okay, well let me confess, let me confess, James, that for about ten days.
Yeah, I was I bought into it.
And uh myself and my wife, we'd been in in in Rome, and there was a little bit of stuff over there because of Vergamo and there was rumors flying around it.
So we arrived back in Dublin Airport and there was a desk at the airport over something to do with health, you know, and that's kind of again underlined it in some way.
And then but one of the day I remember see one of the reasons that I I kind of was a bit f spooked was because I had been ill the year before and you know I didn't know what implications that might have.
And I wasn't completely recovered.
So it was a serious enough thing, Ramsay Hunt syndrome, which is paralysis and blah blah pal palsy and awful stuff, you know.
So I didn't want that coming back.
But so for the first week or so, I would say I got into it big time.
And we had one box of plastic gloves with fifty pairs of gloves in it, James.
And I were worried that this would not be enough.
So I developed a system whereby I would wash the gloves after using them and and and try and make each player last several uses at least, right?
And I so I ru I would hang them up on a big vase in the kitchen to dry out, and it's working very well, I must say.
And I used to um now, but then when I started to to become aware of the absurdity of it, like I would put on my gloves, right?
And then I would leave the the the apartment and go out, and I would open the front door uh with the handle, and then I would suddenly stop and say, Oh my god, now my glove is contaminated.
Oh, I better go back and change my gloves.
So I would go back and and I would put on a different pair of gloves and would then wash those other ones and hang them up on the vase, right?
And then I would go out and this time I would open the door with my elbow, right?
Carefully, and then I would go down the street, and then I would go across the street and I would push the button on the traffic lights with my finger, and then I would go, oh no.
It's a bit like opening public loo doors with your with your elbows.
And this so this went on for a few days, and I I I was fascinated, and because I again talk about the game, James.
You know, this is an amazing thing about games, because now I was obsessed with the game of preserving as many as possible of the gloves for as long as possible.
So I wanted to be only have have maybe four or five gloves out in action on in at any given time and keep them cycling recycling.
And I was doing very well with that aspect of the game.
And uh so I and then uh after about six or seven days, I'd been on with Dave Cullen, who's had a uh uh channel on YouTube at the time, and we were talking in the very beginning, the first kind of few they're still up there, and the first two were kind of like very concerned about pandemic.
And by the third one then we're saying, what the f you know this is and that there was a uh uh a German doctor called Wolfgang Wodark.
He was the one who kind of converted me and he because he'd been the he'd been the guy who called out the first uh uh this wine flu thing back in 2009 and he was working in the European Commission or something, and he had influenced in and he managed to nail it and close it down completely.
They were trying the same scam then and he sat he did about a f 17 or 20 minute video uh in 2020 that I watched and he was going, I yeah, he was being very plausible until he came to the punchline.
Uh and I was kind of he was converting me, and then he said, It's Emperor's New Clothes.
I said, Ah no, come on.
Well, that's a bit over the top, you know, to myself.
That kind of thing.
But still when it all settled down, I digested, I watched it again, I said, nice right.
It's Emperor's new clothes.
That's what it is.
And then I just went, that was the end of it, you know.
Now there were other influences around me at some time.
I had certain friends who were c kind of nudging me and you know, I was having arguments with them, like as I have with you in the past about things, you know, saying, No, no, no, you know, you you you've got to take this seriously, you know, you're you're a conspiracy theorist or something.
I didn't say that, no, I admit I I I must say in my f in my defense, I didn't ever say that.
But you know, uh I I was kind of, you know, they wouldn't do that, James, you know.
Why would they would why would they want to do that?
You know, they're trying to help us save our lives, you know.
That kind of side.
Uh but then I kind of said, no.
And then the thing is by virtue of having been duped and seen through it so quickly, I was then completely cured of it all.
You know, whereas if I gone longer, I'd be trying to justify it in some way and say, well, there was no, it was nonsense.
And uh they took me in for a week or ten days.
Yeah.
And uh that was so yeah, uh see I don't mind James uh uh admitting to naivety.
I I you know I I'm happy enough.
I think naivety is actually quite a good quality up to a point.
Obviously it's dangerous.
I don't want you to be claiming all the naive points here.
I I I want you to know, John, that I too, in the early stages was I I bought into it.
And um I was uh some of my I used to do a podcast with Toby Young and um I remember one episode early on where I was I was more nervous about this deadly pandemic than than Toby was.
This was uh I I was an early Dominic Frisbee, um I don't know what you know he he says says I'm always too early on things.
So I was I was worrying about the pandemic before most people even knew there was anything going on.
I was watching the I was being persuaded by the the Chinese videos which were being dropped into groups like Reddit and anywhere where sort of conspiracy or or sort of out there types would be looking.
Um anyway, so yeah, and there was another guy actually no you remember me.
There was what was that guy used to have a he was very he's gone, he disappeared completely from the internet now, but he was a really strong voice and he was talking about China and Chinese influence and Chinese spawn pandemics early on, and that influenced me a lot.
I can't remember his name will come back to me.
He's uh he was Austrian or no, he's actually born in Ireland, he was born in Atlone, actually, where he lived abroad for most of his life.
Anyway.
Um they they plan well he he's a very good guy, but he he was really certain that the Chinese were gonna start something like this.
And when it happened, then he was saying, Yeah, here it comes, here it comes.
And I was saying, okay, well that's it then.
Yeah.
But uh it was just in what you were saying about your gloves, your special gloves.
Yeah, I'm with me.
Because I remember in the very early days feeling like I was the hunter gatherer that was gonna save my family.
And I was gonna secure all these things before I was gonna get to the shops and get these things or order them online before they ran out.
So I remember getting three three um containers of squirty hand sanitizer with with anti-viral uh uh uh qualities.
And I thought this is great.
I I don't care that the rest of the world dies.
The main thing is I've secured for my family some antiviral hand wash and I put one in the car, and and and and I felt really good about this.
But that's that's again a game.
I was winning, I was winning the game.
You're winning, yeah.
This is the point.
See, everything is in a certain sense a game.
I mean, when you think about human behavior, like my wife sometimes always on to me about if I go in to buy buy secondhand books in charity shops, you know, and bring them home, and she goes, where do you want to put those books?
You've got enough close them out.
I say, no, no, I don't want to no.
But I say, why is why do you do it?
I said, because it's a game.
I'm playing against I've got a brand new copy of Salman Rushdie's novel, which only came in last week, and nobody in this charity shop knows who Salmon Rusty is, so they've priced it at one euro, and I've got it now, and nobody's even opened the pages of it.
Now I might never read it, but I've got it.
But you've you've you you have you you've you've you've that's definitely a ladder, not a sink.
Yeah, yes, exactly.
And that's so all life is like that, really.
If you think about it, everything you do in your head, maybe it's just mad people like us, but it you know that's it could be a male trait, certainly, because my son is very much the same as that, and I I can I can totally identify with what you're what you're saying here.
Well, I I think my daughter has got it as well for me, you know.
Then we're lost to everyone.
She mightn't like me saying that, but I think she does.
She likes the charity, she has a charity shop bug anyway.
Because that's a game.
You're pitted against the elements.
Against the very way that society is organized in the context of materialism and what is what falled over the edge of materialism.
That's the stuff that ends up in charity shops.
And you're there and you're w and you you are there and you're watching for the things that just freakish things that one person didn't want, but the rest of the world might give an arm for.
Yeah.
That's the that's the buzz.
Although you could argue that for us, us spoil sports, we started inventing a game of our own, which was how can I beat the system?
How can I how can I get round wrong or not?
There's not a well, you know, it it can be like that sometimes, James, in a charity shop, you know.
Uh you see, they have the kind of blackmail of the the cause, you know.
And you know that thing where you have you've got something, you get something for four for um let's say you know you've got it for four quid, right?
And you've only got a fibre, and you give in the fibre, and the assistant says, Oh, I'm sorry, I don't have any change.
Yeah.
Now the impulse, you know, the the blackmail is that you should actually say, Oh no, it's okay, I keep the fiver.
But see, that will destroy that will destroy the result.
Yeah, you know, you know, you know you're going to have to pay five for it, and so that the the buzz is reduced.
Do you understand?
And unhappy.
And so you actually you're like Ricky Gervais in that sketchy, you know, where the beggar he says to having you got any change, he says the beggar, haven't you gone any change?
You know, because all these guys are 20, you know.
Uh it's exactly like that.
But it's because of the game thing.
You see, it's it's not meanness, it's it's actually something else.
I is my case.
Okay.
Uh but uh you see, so game like my point is that if you look at virtually everything other than the really dark parts and horrible parts of life, we're always playing games.
Always.
You see, John, I think that little do you know it, but you've you've come upon the explanation of something that we're all asking, which is why won't the normies wake up and see what we see.
And you you've explained it.
Because they enjoy their game so much that they're so immersed in their game.
That when you tell them that they you say, look, you've got to stop playing this game because all the stuff you've learned at school about history, it's all a lie.
All the science stuff, it's all a lie.
You they go, but you're taking away our rules.
Yes.
They don't like that.
Yeah, you're taking away the board as well and the pieces of the book.
The dog and the car and the and the top half.
Yes.
Yes, we're taking everything.
And and that's why why they're the resisting.
And the guys who designed this like this knew that that would happen.
That's just really scary.
This is what I was going to c gonna come on to.
So it seems to me, and I'm all I'm I'm saying this in every piece I write pretty much that the people who run the world, people responsible for all this shit with with with the devil at the top basically he's the CEO.
But his underlings the reason that a tiny handful of them can govern so many of us and keep us in check is because their primary control mechanism is deception.
And we were part of that deception machine once.
Did we know it?
But we were, because the media is an important part of it.
But the thing that some people can't quite grasp, because it's too esoteric, and they've been trained not to believe in the supernatural.
But a key element in this control mechanism is ritual magic, essentially a form of spells.
You talked about your Christian friend, where you can kind of will things into existence.
And in the same way, they...
these people have known for millennia that by manipulating by performing the right rituals and and and shelling the the the right signs and symbols people can be manipulated into into particular behaviour.
The Tavistock Institute is just a sort of sort of more scientific continuation of that where they've worked out the game through a way of getting into people's psyches.
Is this is this a way of understanding the evil in this context I don't know but it seems to me that if you are determined to be good or you are somehow programmed to be good then you're going to have to avoid lots of shortcuts to gain in certain things in life then you might have if you weren't bothered with all those kind of niceties.
And it seems to me that a lot of people in politics and otherwise have understood or had it explained to them that if they don't if they forget about all this obsession with being good and doing the right thing and being nice to people that they will get lots and lots of stuff that they wouldn't get otherwise and make make huge gains that they wouldn't possibly make by being good.
Have you seen the video of Little, what he's called, he's a sort of new generation rapper called Little Something.
No, I haven't.
He talks about, he's a Christian.
And he talks about how his people from his age group were driving these Lamborghinis.
And he said, how do you get these?
He said, oh, it's simple.
You've got to go and see this man up on the hill down this track and do these things.
And you get a Lamborghini.
And essentially, whatever they had to do.
do was was setting their soul in in some way or another sort of engaging in hideous acts but that was that was that is how the world works that is the this is this is why I I talked earlier about the the Bible being an instruction manual.
When it talks about lay not up treasures for yourself on earth where moth and rust does corrupt it, but lay up treasures for yourself in heaven.
What it's explaining to you in kind of biblical Jesus terms is if you fixate too much on material wealth, you will end up getting...
sodomized by P. Diddy and his mates and having to drink children's blood.
Because that's kind of the deal.
Because that's yeah.
Because once you once you leave the the ground of the of the good, you're entering into the darkness.
Yeah.
But here's the thing that I wonder about then when to answer your question or maybe come closer to addressing your question as to why I thought we escaped it.
Um I I think that, you know, okay.
I was talking to a friend this morning and she was saying that um you know a lot of that there's this kind of line of demarcation in the population of Tagar to all this stuff somewhere between forty and fifty, maybe.
And that people over above that line seem to have in general, not it isn't of course uh universally true, more awareness.
Uh and why as compared to the younger generation who don't.
And I I think actually that that has a lot to do with the fact that that the inf the this the superstructure of society, the the elements of religion, politics, culture, which were carefully built in the in the past, built into the society in a certain way, and particularly the religious ones.
That regardless of whether you were a believer or not, you were influenced by these precepts.
Sure.
And also you would uh there was a kind of a an anthropological understanding that went that Kimps was carried in that whole package in the b Bible and so on, that the way people live, the way people are, you had an instinct to and they only know this thing about the idea of God created us in his own image and the the the indignity, the individual individual of each individual human being, being the sacrosanct notion in Christian th theology.
All that I think alerted helped to alert me to that there was lines being breached here that shouldn't be breached.
You know, like the Irish constitution uh guaranteed certain rights.
Inalienable and imprescriptable rights.
Indefeasible rights.
You know, really strong words.
And here they were being absolutely throttled upon.
And I said that can't be right, because it starts off in the name of the most the can't s the preamble of the constitution starts in the name of the most holy trinity.
Uh uh, you know, uh like and goes on to say that all matter of staters of men and of states must be referred to the Holy Trinity.
Right?
So that you you implicitly, even if you don't remember this expressly, you have one understanding through your childhood and adulthood uh of that this is the way the world is.
So therefore when you see evil coming up over the hill, you're aware of it in a way that I don't know, maybe younger people aren't, because they haven't had those uh um immersions that we've had.
Have you ever thought about why it is that the Irish were so incredibly badly treated by the British.
You think about I knew I only read recently about what Cromwell did to the population that is it is it pronounced Droida or Drochida?
Droada.
Drochode.
That that having taken the town have it after the siege, he chopped off the hands of all the the people inside so that they starved to death.
They couldn't feed themselves.
And I don't know how many people who died in the potato famine, but I do know that it was an awful lot and it was deliberately engineered by by the by the powers that be.
Now we're talking about evil again.
This seems to me to be this is this is more than just the kind of the behaviour of uh uh uh a a ruthless entitled governing class that just will stop at nothing to get its way.
It seems to me that there's an extra newal sort of th there's an extra degree of awfulness about this behaviour.
Yes.
And I think this is my theory that Ireland and the Irish have always been a target.
In in actually the same way that the the British people, some might seem to have been a target, the the the ordinary British people, Because they are some of the earliest Christians.
I mean the the Irish Church was really quite important in the I I I I've always I've sensed among the Irish a kind of a connectedness to the mystical side of Christianity that I think the the other people often lack.
I think that I think you're kind of special, you Irish.
Um because I think you're one of the lost tribes you are descended there from.
Okay, well let me kind of deal with that in a moment.
There's a friend of mine has a a theory which is somewhat off that point, but I I think in a way it may be a factor, but the this the factor you mentioned is probably the greater one.
The the what he says is that the reason for all of this behaviour by the English, we call it the English here, really we think.
Yeah, the English, yeah.
Uh and then it's the English government, I guess, not the English people.
I mean, we're well aware of that as well.
Um it's the combine or it's the predator class ultimately, uh still, you know, in their yeah.
So but he says the reason is that they were terrified because the Irish population was expanding so quickly, and it did in the century before what are called the famines, the genocides of the 1840s, the population had gone up from something like three million to eight million, like in a very short time.
And they were terrified that Ireland would end up with a bigger population than England and would actually somehow manage to defeat them, uh become more powerful than they were.
Now, I mean that that was one that was and that's not implausible.
But I think your other uh thing is I think it's the fact that Ireland, Ireland remained Catholic, but it wasn't Roman Catholic.
It's very important to see this initially.
It at that time it wasn't Roman Catholic, it was kind of Celtic Christianity, yeah.
You know, and and um that was a different thing.
I mean it was different to the paganism, but but quite you know, had quite strong links with the paganism that are being there before, you know, the veneration of the land and the landscape and so on.
Uh and I think that that so that that kind of difference, you know, in in the sensibility of Ireland and and England uh uh uh I think was one of the factors.
And I actually think also, you know, later on, I mean, one of the reasons that I think now, one of the reasons that I often think why Ireland is a particular target now, and I think it is.
Yes, like we we're being attacked in a way that is much more vicious than you know a lot of other countries, and it seems we're also being attacked first with different proposals and different to trying things out.
And I think that has to do again with the Catholic Tang, with the Christian Tang, and in particular with the idea that the Ir there the Easter Rising of uh 1916 was the first revolution against the British Empire that was really successful eventually.
And it created a lot of kind of you know copycats around the world and inspired a lot of other movements to to shook off uh uh colonialism and imperialism and so on.
And that rising was really interesting because it was actually based on the Christian story uh on on the crucifixion and the resurrection.
That because the Pierce, uh who was the leader in the spiritual leader, he wasn't a military leader really, that was that was Thomas Clark.
But but you know, uh Pierce was the metaphysical leader of the writing, and his whole thing he knew it was going to fail on the day.
He knew they wouldn't succeed, that there was their numbers were too few, and and that you know it would go against them ultimately.
And he knew they would be executed too.
And they were.
But that was he also knew that that would be the thing that eventually turned the mind of the Irish people against to revolt for real, the whole lot of them, not just the uh that was a group within.
And that that was and I think that that is something which the the these predators, these this combine really fear is the power that you see, ultimately I come back to those things those three things that I was writing about that I mentioned earlier, family, nation and God.
They're the superarching uh loyalties of humanity.
They're the things that men are prepared to die for, their family, their nation, their God.
And in that sense, they cannot be reached by material means or by normal use application of power.
They transcend literally those forces in the world.
And I think that's what they fear most of all, that they don't know, you see.
The call the control grid they're making for the world now would work on animals.
But they've never really tried it.
It's never been tried on human beings.
Now other other experiences will be instructive for them, and they're pretty good at gathering that kind of data and so on.
But what they cannot predict is the downstream response of humanity trapped in such a digital nightmare.
And I believe that there are certain places in the world where they will be looking to for that danger more than in others, and Ireland will be one of them.
Yes.
I don't...
That makes sense.
And I totally agree with you about the family, nation and God...
I mean, I I know I know who my people are.
And they're certainly not represented by any of the political parties or any of this nonsense.
It is this punch and duty nonsense that gets served up to us as...
I mean it's what what's happening in in in politics is so detached from anything that matters to anybody.
Yes.
It's it is.
It is.
Now it it's it's quite clear, you know, now to me, after having spent many, many years talking about current affairs, current events, politics, you know, that Jackie Lull is completely right, like that this is all a misdirection, it's all distraction.
It's all a way of confusing the public in order to draw them in.
Because really, James, we d what what benefit of us?
I mean, I know this sounds this is sounds callous, but what difference does it make to our lives today in our countries, you and in in the United Kingdom, me in Ireland, what happens in Gaza tonight, today?
What difference does it make?
It doesn't make any difference.
Trying very hard to tell I I I occasionally glance across at my wife's copy of the telegraph, and there are endless, endless stories trying to explain why Israel is is the interest of most concern to the readers.
And you're thinking, hang on a second, what about the potholes in the roads?
What about all these things way over?
Well, I mean, yesterday, last week we had an event in in in that a couple of weekends ago, actually, uh Michaera, it's called I Am Ireland.
It's actually a poem written by Porry Pierce, that's the guy I was just talking about.
Uh it's a very powerful poem, you know, about uh, you know, the the run into the rising and and the state of things and the darkness he was feeling, but nevertheless the hope he was feeling.
Um at the end there was a kind of a QA thing, and uh one moment in the audience shouted that was you know, well, what about Palestine and all this, you know?
And and I I it was kind of we moved on from but outside, I was outside later, and this woman came up to me and started shouting me what about Palestine?
And I said, Don't you think we have enough problems saving our own country without worried about Palestine as well.
I mean, are the Palestinians worried about Ireland?
I don't think so.
Well I am so can we just deal with that, and then maybe if we have some energy left over, we'll we'll worry about Palestine.
You know, you know, but it and I think that's a perfectly reasonable position.
But there's this kind of moral blackmail that you have to actually care about everything in the world.
But if you did, you'd be exhausted all the time.
This is this is why I'm very wary, and and one gets into trouble with with the with the kind of the sort of the the the mainstream resistance.
That right now the obvious moves where the the populace is being psychologically manipulated by social media by the newspapers into rising up in outrage and disgust at all these hostels full of these uh military age um men who've been imported with with the the governments obviously the governments say so and stuff,
and and clearly they are some kind of a future paramilitary force designed to crush us and and stuff.
This is this is all obvious.
We all nobody likes it, no nobody likes it.
But what people don't understand is that the people who are gonna appear from nowhere as as white knights to to sweep away this or to r to respond to this system uh this problem are are controlled by the same people who created the problem in the first place.
Farage and co just more puppets to do well, you see that that's a very interesting I mean I know that I know that hypothesis and and and it has a lot of validity for sure.
But here here's the thing I think that is most interesting about that goes against every single Hollywood movie you ever watched, right?
Because in the Hollywood all in all movies, you get that moment of catharsis followed by the rescue.
Yeah, you have to start you know the the the last act, you know, you know the cavalry is going to come over the hill.
Clint Eastwood is gonna come and he's gonna shoot up the the saloon.
Yeah, whatever.
And and that is so ingrained into us now that you know it can become it has become an extraordinarily misleading uh trope in our imaginations because we are all the time thinking, well, where's the good guy?
And as you say, these guys have figured out that we are going to be looking at and they're going to make the good guy into another bad guy, except badder than the last guy.
That's their game.
And and and if that's the case, James, that's a despair-making scenario, obviously, isn't it?
Um and and uh but you see, if it's real, then we should face it.
And the problem is that in some way we are programmed.
Even Christianity programs us for hope.
It does program us for hope.
It does necessarily almost like lambs to the slaughter, by virtue of our trust that there's somebody trustworthy going to come along.
And I mean that's been our experience in reality as well, you know.
I mean, when you're a child, if you were being bullied, somebody would come along and intervene, maybe, you know, and and rescue you and and take you and then you see that that and that goes in as well.
But if if the world at the macro level is now such that that now that is no longer a credible position to hold.
You know.
It's very scary indeed, isn't it?
I know.
How do we how do we not end this this podcast on a on the despairing note?
I mean I sort of I I often this charge gets l leveled against Christians that that's basically a cop-out that they're just saying, well, they're deferring all the problems to to God's gonna sort it out.
Just Jesus is gonna say or or or like the bottom line is, well, you know, even if you have a shit life, you know, the next life is going to be great.
Yeah.
Well, I I I you know, but I I wanna I want to fix this life, James.
Unfortunately, that's a part of me, you know.
That that I again, maybe that's slightly unquestioned or something, I don't know.
Uh but I I would like this life to be nicer to people and and and I would like to put an end to this evil.
But you can have that.
You you can do that.
Uh you have it within your power on the even if on the level.
What what is your um understanding of that power?
How would that work?
Oh, well it's it's okay.
So on the on the micro level, it's by interactions like the one I have with the the with the egg lady, the world is just it just makes everything better.
Just the the more you the more you communicate with people and do innocent things like when I was coming out of church the other day, and I passed the egg I sorry to bang on about the egg box, but they're the Johnny Blaze eggs.
And I I I looked inside, it was it was one of those like one of those those plastic um tubs that you when you go on canoeing expeditions and you and you so you the and I said to this this this woman who was coming out of church with me, um have you tried these eggs?
Are they any good?
He said, I I don't know, there've never been any anyone I've looked.
And I looked in the box, and there were enough eggs for two of us.
I said, I'll buy you a box.
So I treated out of the box of of eggs.
And it made her happy, it made me happy, far happier than uh an incident of such utter insignificance uh really should have should have done.
Um but it seems to me that this is the so this is on the micro level, this is this is how we we deal with the world.
We we recognise that the interaction make everything nicer.
Well, that's see that's that ultimately is my understanding of Christianity, James, because it has become perverted in the modern era and particularly in recent times, where there's been a kind of a politicization of things which implies that what that Christianity requires you to have the particular ideology and a particular attitude to Gaza and a particular attitude to mass migration or a picture and all that.
It doesn't.
What it demands of us is that in each encounter in the world, that we behave as close as possible to the way Jesus would have behaved in that encounter.
Which you did with that woman and the eggs.
So that is is what I call the micro element.
I think that's really important.
And it and it's fun as well.
Okay.
Now there's a related concept to that, James, and maybe this will spoil it in a way your beautiful the beautiful analogy you've created, but I d think it is worth drawing in here because it has an anal an uh uh a connection, but it is political in some sense.
And this is the idea of Vaclav Havel's idea, which I talk about quite a lot, and I talk about in the book of the power of the powerless, where he says that like in other words, you don't need to organize a revolution uh in the streets, you don't need to uh bring down the government,
you know, you don't need to assassinate the the the the chief of the the the leader of the the the the communist party or whatever it is uh all you need to do is certain things that are given to you in each day, responsibilities that you are given, charges that you're given, and they might be big or small, but they're generally small.
And the example he gives is the green ghoster in Prague who had this sign in his window which says in the middle of the communist era, which says workers of the world unite.
And Havel says, obviously the the the green gosser doesn't believe in the sentiment.
He just has it in there to save his ass to keep the c the regime off his back and so on.
But he says that in order to actually act in a way that is productive from the point of view of freedom, what he should do is remove the sign.
Because it that sign is complicating things for other f storeholders who who don't have a sign and are maybe being or maybe feel they have to have a sign and they would take and all that.
So he says, those little gestures, and I I thought about it of course in the context of the COVID scam, like in an example would be you know, not wearing a mask and and walking instead of dog ducking and diving, walking straight into the supermarket, picking up your eggs and your milk and going to the checkout and see what happens, and then having a discussion politely, but say no, I don't wear masks or whatever.
And and what I found with that kind of thing, it's hugely satisfying.
Even and particularly so if you don't get into a row, where if you just simply say, look, this is my position, uh and sometimes you do get into rows, or I did, and uh that's inevitable, I guess.
But the thing is that each day that you know that kind of thing that you you you get given something to do that's just a little bit awkward and unpleasant, and you wish it wasn't happening.
But the idea is to just simply embrace that and do it, because that's what you're called to do, and then say, okay, I did that.
And when you're falling asleep that night, you think back and say, that was a good thing.
I feel good about that.
And that's quite related to your thing about the eggs, I think.
It's a political dimension of that.
It's the political wing of that kind of um uh what you might call friendliness or or generosity or whatever it is.
Uh you know, I think and they're the same thing in a certain sense, but in a political totalitarian situation, The other one is just as important, I think.
It doesn't arise in the normal course of events in the normal society.
But in a totalitarian society, such as we now all live in, it does.
The other thing I wanted to so we talked about the the micro.
But I think equally I I do think we want to tr strive to live as closely as possible according to Jesus' precepts.
That seems to me very reasonable.
But as you know, I I read the Psalms a lot.
And the Psalms are very big on this.
This the Psalms are like a kind of microcosm of well, certainly of the Old Testament, and actually the New Testament as well, because Jesus was massive massively into the Psalms.
And the message of the Psalms, message a lot of the Bible is very, very clear.
Put your trust in the Lord.
Trust in the Lord and be doing good.
dwell in the land and verily thou shalt be fair.
You get stories all the time, like Gideon, And his and his handful of men that that uh uh beat the who is it, the Philistines or whatever, whoever they they beat.
Um you've got Shadrach, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the far in the Farry furnace.
That if you're gonna be if you're gonna do Christianity right, you have to recognise the supernatural element.
It's not just a kind of uh be nice to everyone human thing.
It's actually the supernatural element is really important, and you absolutely have to have faith that God is going to sort out this shit in the end.
Which he does.
If you if you trust in him, he he does amazing things.
And I I That's right.
I got a great I remember once years ago, an old fella, I was in a kind of a spot and I was quite scared about something, and uh he became no he became aware of it.
And he brought me into a cafe and and or hotel, and he's bought me a coffee, and he said, You're frightened, you know.
And I says, Yeah, yeah, man.
Give him a little bit of an explanation.
And he just said to me, very simple, he says, Yeah, but um do you believe in God or do you not believe in God beautiful?
That is fantastic.
Yeah.
That's it.
That's as simple as that.
Like you know, it's so simple.
You say you're not acting like you're being you believe in God.
You say you do, but you're not acting now at this moment.
And this happens to us all the time, James, doesn't it?
We lose faith because of the agigencies of the moment, the pressures of the moment, the horror that we feel we have to fix.
Well, in fact, maybe the natural thing is to stand back and say, I can't fix this.
You're you take over.
See what happens.
I think that that is that is the happy way of ending this podcast.
I do you believe in God or do you not believe in God?
That is just yeah.
Thank you, John.
I'm I've really enjoyed chatting.
We're we're we we're gonna have to make it shorter than two years, the gap between our next this and our next podcast.
Yes, definitely.
I think I think we we have agreed about it most things today, James.
That's quite uh oh, I didn't expect not to.
I really didn't.
Um neither did I actually.
Um neither did I. But uh Yeah, I it's yeah, I think we we uh our journeys are quite similar, although they take different detours here and there.
Uh but it it's it's uh I think you're absolutely right in in what you're saying, yeah.
What you're saying and implying that uh almost every in every sentence like that we need humanity can't escape from this without supernatural help.
Yeah.
But luckily God God is quite powerful.
Yes, Jim.
I think he's been keeping his powder dry, but he has, but we know that his wrath will be something to behold.
Um is there anything you want to plug?
I mean, uh obviously you want to tell people you've got this book at.
Yes, the abolition of reality, uh a first draft of the end of history, and I mean that isn't a lack of title, subtitle as it sounds, because I'm prepared to write another draft when God intervenes and fixes it all, and we have a happy ever after ending.
And it's so heavy, uh you can use self-defense and as a as a door.
Yes, it's multi-purpose.
It is, oh yes, that's it's in case the the the goon squad coming, come come calling, you know.
Which may happen any day, like has happened to Graham Lenahan, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
If Graham had had that book with him yesterday, he wouldn't have gotten a big thing.
He wouldn't never have got him.
Um it's great, it's been great chatting here, John.
I'm I've I've really enjoyed it as always.
And and I tell you what, I broke my special rule.
I I I never go over two hours.
I'm very much against the Joe Rogan thing.
Um yeah.
And I I I flag, I really flag, but I know you like it.
You like a chat.
Yes, I do, yeah.
Thank you very much, James.
It's been great again to see you.
I really enjoyed it.
Thank you so much.
Um so oh.
Um anything else you want to mention?
Your substack.
Oh yeah, and Substack, uh I I'm on that.
Uh uh You know, I'm still working away on that.
John Waters.substack.com.
I find Substack, there's something weird going on there.
I'm not quite sure what it is.
Um I'll talk to you about it some other time maybe.
Yeah, I've share your I share your concerns.
They're limiting us.
Yes.
They're sitting on us, you know.
They're sitting on the stage using us it's a trap.
They basically kidnapped us, James, and their holiness uh uh to ransom.
Yeah.
They are.
We need to think of a way around this because it's becoming an increasing problem.
In fact, I was gonna I was gonna say, look, um I've mentioned before, if you want to support me directly, you can.
I'll I'll I'll put my email address or something and you can contact me.
I mean it it's getting it's getting to getting a real problem now.
Try and penetrate Substack system and try and support me if you if you can, that would be great.
Or even go old school and go Patreon if you it if not buy me a coffee.
But do do please try and make the effort to support me.
Um it's it's becoming increasingly hard and and um you know you you wanna you want to say thank you to the to the stuff I do because you kinda like it.
You don't want me to just work for free, I I hope.
Um yeah, thanks for watching anyway, and um thank you again, John Waters.
Thank you, James.
Uh Global warming is a massive con.
There is no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's gonna kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it, it's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition of my 2012 classic book, Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
Uh it's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in the well, 2011 actually, it the first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when the people behind the Chin Climate Change scan got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it's screamed, in a scandal that I helped christen Climate Gate.
So I give you the background to to the skullduggery that went on in in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us.
We've got to act now.
I rumbled their their scam.
I then asked the question, okay, if it is a scam, who's doing this and and why?
It's a good story.
I've I've kept the the the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it's a g I think it still stands out.
I think it's i i it's a good read.
I obviously I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from James Dellingpool.co.uk forward slash shop.
You'll probably find that mic, just go to my website and look for it.
James Dellingpool.co.uk.
And I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that oh, it's a disaster, we must amend our ways and appease the gods, appease mother.
