James chats to comedian Tania Edwards about how to pronounce her first name, the horrors of corporate comedy gigs, Tolstoy’s short stories, and - don’t listen to this until you’ve had breakfast - James’s latest detox protocol. And lots of other interesting stuff.Tania’s next comedy gig is on May 3rd. But get in there quickly because tickets always sell out fast. https://thetopsecretcomedyclub.co.uk/events-listings/alistair-williams-and-tania-edwards-4/
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And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest.
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This is...
Welcome back to the DellingPod, Tanya Edwards.
Although I was talking, do you know who my last podcast was with?
Well, I don't know, because I've just been texting Alistair.
Well, so that would give you no clues whatsoever, would it?
Given that it was Alistair on the podcast.
We're doing a big, big show together on the 3rd of May and everybody has to come.
Yeah, I know.
Well, you're going to get a double whammy.
I think we're going to be bored of the Tanya show promo Alistair Axis.
It's the last one in London, so I think it's really strange because I was working last night and I...
I look really tired this morning, and I bought one of those things that women buy.
You know, those red lights.
Narrow it down a bit, one of those things that women buy.
I look like I just swam the channel in over-tight goggles.
Basically, I bought one of those light masks.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
They're good.
That scare my children.
Well, who knows?
The point is, I would look really tired.
That's going to freshen me up.
I can't see at all because the configuration of my screen is such that I can just see a thumbnail of you.
Hang on, I'm going to try, how do I make this?
Don't make me bigger.
Ah, I've made you bigger.
Oh, now.
Nimee.
They're called malabags, aren't they?
That's what that general had to have an operation to remove.
They're huge.
These are just dense.
And I don't have those bags.
The point is, I didn't think you'd appreciate it if I put this off because I was waiting for my bubble melt to go.
Anyway, never mind.
That would have been a really bad girl excuse, you know, that sort of made sense to a girl and made no sense to a man.
I don't particularly care what you look like.
I know you do, James.
Oh, yeah, I know you do.
And I suppose...
Do you know, there is a constituency, I think, that kind of likes looking at you, and I think it's a bit sad, but there we are.
What I was going to say to you was, I get slightly freaked out when Alistair talks about you, and he calls you Tanya.
And I suppose that probably is the correct pronunciation, is it?
But I can't think of you as...
James, it's Tanya.
It is Tanya.
Of course it is, yeah.
It's a special.
For a start, it's with an I instead of a Y, but we've known each other for so many years, it doesn't feel appropriate to mention that he's saying my name, Rob.
So it doesn't matter, does it?
That's embarrassing.
What do you mean?
No, that's really bad, actually.
I'm normally quite good at that.
What do you mean?
You'd tell someone if they were calling you James.
No, no, no.
I didn't realise that you were spelt with a Y. I'm not spelt with a Y. I'm spelt with a Y. I'm Tanya.
Yeah, you are Tanya.
So I've been calling you the right name and spelling you right.
I've known him for so long, I can't.
Sorry, Alistair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But also, Alistair doesn't talk quite as posh.
He's got a home counter's accent.
He does.
I don't really think it's to do with that because he's not northern, James.
I suppose that he's not northern.
My friend Tanya, he always called me Tanya too, and then one day someone told him, and he was really outraged, and I had to tentatively agree with the person that was right.
But I'm not really bothered about these things.
Years ago we were doing this comedy gig for a homeless shelter, and some people have their names with the initial in the middle, so they really want to be called Tanya A. Edwards.
And, you know, I hadn't mentioned, sorry, it's an email.
I hadn't mentioned this guy's middle initial when I brought him on stage.
We were in a homeless shelter.
I mean, it doesn't matter, but he was really cross-voted.
And he opened up and said, anyone been on holiday recently?
Oh my God.
You know, he kind of connected and suggested that they could nix some of the chairs and flog them.
It was a real disaster.
We were very young.
But I don't care how people say my name.
It doesn't make any difference to me.
My friend calls me Eddie because she thinks that Tanya doesn't suit me, so she won't use my name at all.
People can do their own thing.
No, I think Tanya's right for you.
But then I'm biased because it's the only name I've known you by since I've known you.
Well, she made one up, didn't she?
Seems to make sense.
Somebody at my wife's work.
Has got a daughter called Lutra.
I like that.
Do you think it's a good name?
Lutra.
I don't know.
It's not in the Bible.
Do you know what Lutra is?
A latrine?
No, no, no.
Now you've made the nice thing nasty.
Lutra.
That's what girls do, isn't it?
They make nice things nasty with their nasty kind of handbag, kind of bitchy little snipey comments.
I'm just not as keen on the name as you.
Okay.
Lutra is the Latin name for otter.
Oh, God.
Wouldn't you like to have been called Lutra?
It'd be a good stand-up handle.
You know, nobody else would be called Lutra.
Nobody else is called Tanya, apart from a midget, actually.
I know loads of people call Tanya.
On the circuit.
The circles I move in.
On the circuit, on the circuit, I said.
The what?
Well, the circuit.
In comedy.
I don't know.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, of course they're not going to be, because comedians are common, basically, aren't they?
No.
They are.
I once got in an Uber, and the bloke said, are you Tana?
And I said, yes.
And they drove me off in the wrong direction.
And another Tana had tried to book the same Uber.
Had put an Uber on exactly the same spot, but really randomly in the middle of nowhere.
And I thought, that's just most unfortunate.
So...
Just tell me who, on the comedy circuit, is not actually...
Oh, there's quite a few.
Ivo Graham.
Ivo's a posh name.
That's a real class signifier.
Yes.
And Glenn Moore.
And Simon Evans.
And Tom...
Is he posh?
Ish.
Public school.
Oh, and of course, Jack Whitehall.
More Brett educated.
Jack Whitehall.
Yeah, no, okay, I take it back.
Listen, we're going to drivel.
There's a danger that we're just going to drivel.
I just want to put down a marker.
Can you remind me at some stage, I've got to tell you my disturbing sheep story.
Oh, yes.
Is this a metaphor?
No, it's not.
Because I live in the country.
And very, very little happens to me.
And by choice as well.
I like seeing people less and less.
I only like seeing people when I'm mounted.
Not when I'm being shagged, when I'm on a horse.
I can cope with it then.
And I will very, very sparingly allow myself to be inveigled into going to a...
No, I wouldn't go to dinner.
That would be too much.
Really?
No, I don't like dinners.
I might accept an invitation once a month, but I would be very resentful about it.
God, your wife is suffering.
No, no, no.
She feels exactly the same way.
Oh, exactly.
Which is odd, because as you know, I'm really a very sociable person in that I'm surrounded by nice people like you and all my kind of...
You just need to keep going off your friends.
Is that what you're saying?
I don't...
Okay, so I've got two problems.
One, all my kind of residual friends.
Friends from my past are all normies.
So what can I talk about?
Literature, hunting.
Well, the season's over, so I can't talk about that.
Gardening is what I've been doing a lot of recently.
Gardening.
I mean, if you can't go out on a horse...
And be worried about dying, jumping over a hedge.
What's left?
Well, you've got to do things like gardening.
Yeah, I think it's tiring because I think when everybody's together that sees the world in the same way, and I feel pity, by the way, or sympathy with rather, not pity, but sympathy certainly for the normies, as you call them, in that when you see the world in a completely different way,
none of your chat has any resonance.
Even if someone talks to me about what they're watching on television, everything is completely irrelevant to me.
I'm not moved by any of their ideas or any of their worries or any of their popular culture.
And they know.
So they also feel stymied in their chat.
And I see it when I'm with my father.
He just sometimes wants me to get worked up about Trump or this or that one.
And I'm just never going to be able to because...
I know it's a nonsense.
And it's irritating for them.
And it's obviously trying for me.
But I have children and we do other fun things.
It doesn't matter.
But I can imagine that if you're stuck having one of these conversations where everybody knows that they're in a different paradigm to you, it's mutually unsatisfying.
I'm lucky with my dad in that he's actually completely awake.
But he still can't kick his old habits of doing things like watching, of all things, GB News.
And reading The Telegraph, which he says he only does to do the crossword.
But occasionally, you know, I'll ring him up to find out how he's doing.
And he'll say, what do you think about Trump's tariffs?
Or what do you think about Keir Starmer?
And I say, par.
I'm not talking...
I don't talk about Normie News shit.
Just move on.
He understands, but I don't want to talk about Normie News shit.
Like, you know what Normie's talking about at the moment?
No.
Apparently they've recreated a dire wolf.
What is this?
Well, if you'd watched Game of Thrones, there were these giant wolves called dire wolves, and each of the Stark family had a pet dire wolf.
And apparently, I thought direwolves were only invented by George R.R. Martin, but apparently there were, allegedly, according to the kind of the fabulists who believed that there was sort of prehistory, there were apparently these things called direwolves stalking the plains,
presumably roaming alongside the dinosaurs or whatever.
Anyway, some sort of huckster outfit in America claims to have...
Use the genetic code.
They found the genetic code and blah, blah, blah.
And they've got these dire wolf.
And this is what Norma's talking about.
And I'm saying, this is just like bollocks.
It's just made up shit to promote this company or to promote evolution or to promote dinosaurs or whatever.
It's all to promote the deadening of the conscience.
That's what it is for.
And even these, I can't believe it.
People are sincere in thinking that all of these politicians who've proven themselves, demonstrably proven themselves to be the same, are different.
But I think that even though they know on some level that that's a lie, they still are very much attached to these labels.
I called a promoter the other day, and I'm having a very different experience in the circuit now because some people have apologised to me for whatever reason, and they don't need to, but because they obviously...
We're very pro-vaccine, for example.
I told you this.
Well, who wouldn't be?
Well, and then he's now vaccine-injured, and he said that he was really rude about me.
He didn't say that.
He said, I need to apologise to you because I'd heard that you were anti-vaccine.
I was very pro-vax, and now I'm very ill, and I know it's because of the vaccine, so I was wrong.
And so people have been very nice.
They don't need to say anything to me.
I don't mind.
The damage is done.
I wasn't ever trying to win an argument.
I wanted to be wrong.
But what's interesting is that I called a promoter.
So this one took me by surprise.
I've known this promoter for, I don't know, 16 years.
And it was just for a local gig, which I don't normally do because of the money.
But I did it.
All of the trains are cancelled now.
I got back from a show on Saturday at two in the morning.
It's just not worth the bother.
It doesn't matter if the show's brilliant.
Everything is being cancelled all the time.
It's just exhausting.
Anyway, so I called up this local gig, and he said to me, oh, yeah, great, I'll stick you in for August.
And then he said, I just want to check, you haven't moved any further to the right, have you?
And I said, what do you mean to the right?
I said, I think all politicians are the same, and most of them should be in prison.
They don't actually be even punishment anymore, but that's a different thing.
But I said, what do you mean to the right?
And he said, well, didn't you support Katie?
And I let him work out which Katie he meant.
So he was trying to remember and he couldn't remember her name.
And he came up with Katie Price.
And I said, I think Katie Price, didn't she used to get her tits out in the papers?
I don't think that's the one you mean.
Anyway, eventually we got to Katie Hopkins.
And I said, I've never supported Katie Hopkins.
She wouldn't be able to follow me, obviously, James.
I said, but I'm a free speech person.
If I saw her at a show or whatever, I wouldn't not do my show.
But as it happens, I've never worked with her.
I've never met her.
I don't think, you know, I have no opinion.
And he apologised then.
And then he said, and this is really interesting.
So there's a guy on the circuit who has difficulties.
And he's a good writer and he's a sweet comic, but he's adorable.
And the jokes that he makes are often about his own quite visible and obvious.
Difficulties.
Anyway, apparently there'd been all of these letters of complaint because he'd made a joke about Palestine.
And I said, well, I'm a pacifist, so I don't believe in genocide either, but I'm not making jokes about it.
I mean, but I'm a pacifist.
I didn't know that that made me right-wing.
I'm happy to write back to any of your punters if I come up with a joke about that.
I haven't got one yet.
Anyway, so it was all fine, but I thought it's so interesting, isn't it?
If you don't believe in butchery, that any label can be ascribed to you, and it's all about what the algorithm's throwing up to the paranoid.
It's like my friend who had that immune condition, and she was frightened that if she didn't take the vaccine, she thought if she did take it, she'd die, and if she didn't take it, people might think that she was a Trump supporter.
And I said, well, firstly, he's calling himself the father of the vaccine and he's pushing this drug, so why would it make you a Trump supporter to not want to take it?
And she said, well, because some of his supporters don't want to take it.
I said, but it would be absurd for you to be a Trump supporter or not as a Hampstead housewife.
Why does it even matter?
But it's what people fear being called by their friends.
And it's obviously palpably absurd to someone like me who doesn't ascribe to any of these.
These actors.
But it's interesting the effect it has on other people.
And I think it's also amazing that if you don't believe in war, that's now considered a really wicked position.
So I, regardless of everything, I read your piece, James.
You know that excellent piece you read?
Which one?
You should narrow it down.
They're all really good.
I read your Putin one.
And you said that, you know, allegedly the Sputnik vaccine wasn't as bad as the other vaccines.
But I was thinking when I read that, people have said this to me before, but it wouldn't have mattered to me if the whole vaccine had been saline.
I would still have gone to prison or died before I took it.
Because for me, it was about not being a slave and it was about having bodily autonomy.
So I know that for lots of people, for them, it was like taking saline.
They were just taking something that they didn't think that they needed, but they certainly didn't think would harm them.
And they did it because they were being coerced by a sort of false imprisonment, if you like, even a nice open imprisonment in their homes.
But they knew that they were being held captive by the force of the state and they wanted to be set free.
So they allowed themselves to be injected with what they hoped was equivalent to saline.
But it doesn't matter because that whole exercise just showed that we have been completely subjugated to a point of absolute submissiveness.
I've got to go for one second.
I'll be back.
Give me a second.
Thank you.
have to
That was really close.
I'm sorry about this.
And for anyone listening, having breakfast, put your bacon and egg down now.
I'm on day five of my bowel cleanse detox.
And you just never know when you're going to, you suddenly have to rush off to the, I mean, can you imagine if If you were out riding.
Well, you do look very fresh, James, but good grief.
I think quite a few people would like to stop me talking by saying I have to leave.
I was thinking, I want to let her finish her point, but at the same time I was thinking, she could go on.
There's no guarantee that this is going to be over in 30 seconds.
It could be five minutes.
I ain't got those five minutes.
However well honed your point is.
I was digressing anyway, James.
It could have been a difficult round.
Yeah, that would have been a...
I mean, normally I don't interrupt people's digressions.
You're going to interrupt them one way or the other.
But anyway, if I rush off again, because I say it's completely unpredictable.
I have to drink this grey...
Grey powder.
I've been plagued by health problems since before Christmas.
And I was thinking, I'll try and knock this on the head.
So I've been going to see a naturopath, herbalist, whatever, called Izzy Seed.
I have to get on the podcast sometimes so he can talk about all this.
But it's...
First of all, I did the kidney cleanse, which is quite fun, actually.
I mean, you drink a pint of warm water with lemon juice in it and some sumac.
First thing in the day, and that's good.
James, it's a good conversation to have a shift, so it's a difficult pitch, but keep going.
Then, well, I mean, obviously you don't shit through your kidneys.
The kidney detox is different.
Then I did the liver detox, which is more complicated.
But again, there's a really good drink you drink, which is a clove of garlic, a thumb of ginger, a thumb of turmeric, of fresh turmeric, a tablespoon of olive oil,
300 mils of apple juice.
And you put it all in the blender and it emulsifies into this orangey yellow thing.
And I didn't mention the lemon juice and the juice of a lemon.
And you wolf that down and that's quite nice.
But the bowel cleanser is not so much fun.
Are you feeling better for all this though?
Not yet.
No, no.
Because you see, what I hadn't realised...
Is it?
It's emotional probably as well, James.
Oh, definitely.
Oh, there's no question about that.
People with, I hate talking about Lyme disease because it's so boring and what even is Lyme disease?
But there are lots of conditions like it and it's all to do with your body's trying to recalibrate itself and being knocked sideways by one thing or the other and you've got to get it, you know, it's all to do with gut health ultimately, etc,
etc.
Anyway, If you want to do stuff like, as I understand it, tackle stuff like parasites or heavy metals, first of all, you go through the process where you get everything else in order.
So, you know, you do the liver, you do the kidney, do the bowel, and then you move on to the detox program proper.
So it's a drawn-out process.
I mean, I'm really much better than I was.
I went through this.
I had this terrible phase.
Awful.
Where...
I think this is related to a fall from a horse, possibly, as so many things are.
I developed this slight tremor, and I could not drink alcohol.
Can you drink alcohol now?
I can.
But it was a real problem with hunting, because hunting straight is really...
Because it's, like, scary.
You need to be pissed to be able to cope with the fear.
So that rather ended my hunting season for me.
And then I went off to Thailand.
And you know how when you're in the tropics, you want a beer, don't you?
You want a beer and a fag.
Well, certainly a beer to cool you down and just like, I'm on holiday, I'm having a beer.
Or cocktails in the evening.
Yeah, let's go for a cocktail.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I didn't have any cocktails.
I didn't have any beer.
A tiny, tiny amount of alcohol just made me feel awful.
Just, like, depressed, like, just, you know, rough.
We put antabuse into my porridge, unbeknownst to me.
It's really the horse thing.
My goddaughter, she might go pro, you know, in jumping.
That's brave, exciting.
But this is it.
This is the first time I've ever seen my friend, her mother, actually have the fear about it.
Because they get these horses that haven't been broken in.
Do they?
Because they've been ponies.
She's 15. So she's just sort of the class where you could call a pony or a horse.
You know where it's, give or take.
You could jump either way.
Paws.
Yeah.
They're big, but once you get to the next year, she has to be officially in the horse class.
Yeah.
Anyway, I don't really understand it all.
Don't quote me.
The point is that, obviously, if you're getting these bigger horses unbroken, it gets more dangerous, doesn't it?
Why do they use unbroken horses?
Because they're less expensive.
Oh, I see.
It's £30,000 for a schooled horse, but you can get one that hasn't been broken for £9,000, for example.
And then, because they're both really competent riders, they can train the horses.
But, obviously, the bigger they get...
The harder that is.
But basically, I can see that my friend is worried suddenly that her daughter could, you know, all the stables want her to go and work for them, obviously, because she knows how to ride these difficult horses.
But you don't want your child to get injured, seriously injured.
No, you don't.
But at the same time, you know, she's brilliant.
So there you are.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's just...
Best not to dwell on the injuries and just go ahead and do it.
I had this...
I had a bad accident and I was banned by my...
I ended up breaking loads of ribs and collarbone and having a pulmonary embolism.
I was banned by my family from hunting.
I read a piece about this in The Spectator when I still had a column there.
This 90-year-old woman who wrote, she was called Kath Payton.
She wrote a series of children's books called Flambards about horses.
She's an old-school horsey person.
Amazing woman.
I think she's still alive.
And she wrote me a letter saying, I really think you should take up hunting again.
I don't think it's on for you not to allow yourself to be banned by...
You do what you love.
Okay, it's dangerous, but so what?
Everything that's fun is dangerous.
And I thought this was the woman writing.
She was probably in her late 80s when she wrote this letter.
Maybe that's right.
When you're in your late 80s looking back, you think, well, yes, it could have killed me.
But it didn't.
Obviously, she wouldn't have been writing the letter had it killed her because she'd already been dead.
But there we are.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm not a rider.
You've been blessed.
God has relieved you of the burden of worrying about whether you're not going to die on a horse.
I've got no desire to ski.
I've got no desire to do anything quickly.
Well, that's probably because you're one of those risk-averse...
Being a comedian, you're not totally risk-averse, because that's quite risky, isn't it?
I'm not worried about physical risks.
I'm just not bothered, but I don't seek them out.
You don't like adrenaline?
Oh, I do like adrenaline.
I love it, but I wouldn't get it on a mountain.
I just would feel confused.
I don't like heights.
I love adrenaline, but that's probably why I like doing stand-up, and it's probably why I've gone off it, because I don't have it now.
In fact, I actually worked something out the other day.
I was on stage somewhere because my gigs are really good.
Well, that's not okay, isn't it?
Oh, well, no, but it's so interesting because a few different things happen at once.
Firstly, I'm just doing different projects now and I want to work on other stuff that's more interesting to me.
I think it's a time thing.
But since I felt like this, I've had really funny experiences doing stand-up.
So one of them, I was at a corporate.
Corporates are always awful, but they pay well.
They pay well.
But you literally, you're interrupting someone else's dinner just when they've got to the point of pissiness that they're no longer hating their own work function.
There'll be tables the other side of a pillar, you know, that they can't even see you, but they have to sit there being shushed by the person they've just remembered as their boss so that they have to listen to someone bang on about Waitrose.
They can't even hear them.
They don't care.
They want you gone.
And they are singularly painful.
I've got no idea why people book people for these.
And I know people that were paid huge, stonking amounts of money to do them, and it got to the point where they just couldn't bear the humiliation anymore.
But I don't care about that because a corporate's a corporate.
But this particular one, I don't know how it happened.
Sometimes you're invited for the dinner, but you never sit for the dinner because you're obviously going to be more amusing eating with somebody, being normal.
Then you are stopping them functioning properly for their situation to listen to you.
And secondly, you have to really not care about anyone in the room at a corporate because they don't like you being there.
And if they feel sorry for you, that's just not good.
You need to not like them and they need to not like you.
And then it's fine.
It's just a business thing.
Anyway, so two things happened at this corporate.
The first was that as I went in...
This chap came up to me and he'd heard me on your podcast.
Well, there was nothing more embarrassing than that because I knew I was about to not only sit through an excruciating supper but die a bitter death.
Someone actually liked me but it was too painful.
It was just too painful.
So I was already sitting excruciating.
Then I was at this dinner and actually they were all completely sweet and lovely but I was being really appalling with this chap I was sitting next to.
I was desperately amusing.
But in a completely, you know, when you can say whatever you like because you're the jester and so you can be really outrageous.
And I knew that I was being much more outrageous than myself.
I have to do this horrible show with all of these people having to sit there patiently waiting for it to be over, knowing that this guy who listened to me was thinking, oh, God, this is painful.
And then watching the guy that I've just been making laugh, realised that I wasn't amusing after all.
It was so awful.
And then afterwards, this bloke I've been sitting next, he said, oh, that went all right.
I've never seen everyone so quiet.
He was saying that as a compliment.
Because he'd seen people do those corporates where people just couldn't shut up.
They couldn't tolerate it even to try and listen to it.
And at least they'd managed to tolerate it.
And I thought, I don't know that it's worth the money.
I just don't.
And then a few weeks later, I did a gig in some barn somewhere.
Really, you know, very fancy.
And there was a couple on the front row, and they were in their 70s, I think, and they were absolutely stunningly attractive and obviously loaded and very happy and clever.
And she was French.
And I have this stuff.
It's actually about you, it doesn't matter.
But anyway, I basically made a joke about her cheating because she's French.
And this is because French women do.
But because everybody knows that French women do, because everyone's known French women.
It seemed much more edgy than if she'd been German.
I can't explain it.
And I realised that actually stand-up, when it's really good fun, is when it's not necessarily funny for everybody apart from you.
It becomes a game of seeing how far you can take something.
It's actually quite aggressive and rude, but you're pretending that you're neither of those things.
And once you really don't care if people are laughing or not, you can...
Do the most peculiar things and say the most extraordinary things and have a genuinely fascinating time, but I'm not sure that I've ever really liked watching those comics and I'm not sure it's a valuable way to live,
even if it's interesting to see what you can do when you have authority.
It's interesting, but I'm not sure It's as funny as watching someone fall in a pothole.
You know, I'm not sure.
And when I am invested, so the show that I'm doing with Alistair, we all go to the pub afterwards and we all have a nice time.
And lots of people have come back, you know, and it's a really great atmosphere because they normally say, well, they've always sold out.
But it's interesting because there, I like the people.
So I want to be nicer to them than I would be in a normal club.
And I wonder what that means, really.
I don't know.
It's very strange.
But it's interesting at this point because I'm going to stop soon.
That's it.
You're just going to hang up your comedy boots.
Yeah, I'll still do the shows that I really like.
I'll do these shows with Alistair and I'll do my favourite clubs.
But I won't.
I'm not considering it.
I don't care anymore.
It's no longer my life.
It's just something fun that I'm going to be doing.
I don't know.
Yeah, but I have to say, I thought your description of the horrors of doing a corporate, by the way, was absolutely just genius.
But I think if you found a formula where you can go through this ordeal, And get paid decent money for it and not hate yourself and not want to die.
It's quite a good way of, you know, cushioning your life.
Well, also, it's very short, isn't it?
It does slow down time to feel that much pain in 20 minutes.
It's quite a...
You watch time bend in a bad gig.
It's really, it is interesting.
I don't know, I'm just doing...
I'm starting to write again.
I don't read fiction for the same reasons I don't watch television.
I just get too involved.
But I accidentally read some Tolstoy short stories recently.
And because I used to write short stories, because they were short, and I'm too lazy to finish anything long.
I'm not lazy, just distracted.
Anyway, have you read his short stories?
They're on the list.
You've got to read Father Sergius, James.
Which one?
Father Sergius.
It's very short.
Everyone should read this story.
It's about...
You're not going to spoil it, are you?
No, I'm not.
I'm going to just tell you, you've got to read it because I haven't been able to stop thinking about Father Sergius for weeks and weeks and weeks.
And it's fascinating because last time I spoke to you, you know, I said to you, I think I might be a Christian anarchist and he said, what's that?
And I wasn't sure.
And I'm still not.
I've been reading his The Kingdom of God is Within You because this is the whole I told her I read that essay about the law of love and the law of violence and how he's right the whole point of Christ was just to say that the old formula of getting your way with violence is the wrong formula because you'll never make two groups of people agree on what an evil might be and so really violence is just used to enforce your opinion on somebody else.
And the whole point of Christ is that he came along and said, that's not the way to do things, there's another way, and that is no violence.
And he said, obviously, as every society is being founded on violence, people couldn't absorb this teaching straight away, and that's how we've come to have this corrupted idea of Christianity.
And he doesn't believe in anything, by the way.
So he's one of the most profoundly Christian writers you'll ever read, but he doesn't believe in miracles or anything of what he calls to be religious superstition.
He thinks that all of the church and the authority of the church is a lie and that the people only ever even invoked miracles because they were trying to make you obey in a different way.
So they either used force or magic to make you obey a principle.
But all the while that they were doing that, they forgot the actual principle, which is that you're not supposed to use violence against another person.
To get your way.
It's the most interesting...
I'm having the most interesting time.
I think that I will probably...
I've always wanted to do this project, Conversations Across Time, because when all of the COVID stuff happened, I was so fed up with everybody, and I couldn't speak to anybody.
In a bit like now, my mother said to me the other day, and my mother's intelligent, but she said the other day that she'd been watching the news, a fool's mistake, and...
She had seen a Palestinian begging Israel to deal with Hamas.
Oh, really?
And I said, this is obviously propaganda, isn't it?
It's obviously propaganda.
But it also wouldn't matter, would it?
If they were begging Israel to wipe out Hamas, it wouldn't make it right.
So I think...
I suppose what I'm trying to say is if you understand that violence is always wrong and that that's not the way you should resist evil and that evil is not going to be diminished by adding evil to it.
If you completely abandon the old idea of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and you accept that my taking out your eye is not going to improve my condition.
Once you accept that, then it wouldn't matter, would it?
It doesn't matter what any story is told to you.
It doesn't matter if I'm telling you that a Palestinian is begging me to do something or an Israeli is begging me to do something.
It doesn't matter who got kidnapped or who's been released.
Nothing matters.
Once you accept that you can't resist evil with force, then the whole system crumbles.
And once you decline to participate in any fashion in helping the state use force against your fellow man, The whole edifice that we're looking at that we don't like collapses.
It's really interesting, and it means that you have, as an individual, all of the power in the world, and you're completely free.
And the only thing you need to resist is your impulse to violence.
By that token, Christianity is no...
I mean, if that's a correct representation of where Tolstoy is coming from.
Or what Christian Anarchy means, then it's basically no different from Buddhism, is it?
I mean, what's the difference if it's just about peace, man?
Well, it's not just about peace, though.
It's about inner purification towards outer perfection.
So this is another thing he's so interesting on.
It's much more complicated than that.
This is the thing that's been puzzling me the most, the non-violence thing, because obviously that's how we function, isn't it?
We function on force.
So that's what's captured me probably the most.
But he has this really interesting idea that the whole point of the sinner or the lost sheep or the robber on the cross, the reason that their journey is considered more important is because they're making their own progress faster.
So this is what I've been saying, weirdly, about creativity for ages and ages.
When people that were ostensibly on our side suddenly got to this position that they felt my rights was theirs, way before the COVID stuff, so let's say I was just an unsuccessful person, and then the COVID thing happened, and that transported me into a superior position in my industry.
Obviously, it didn't in my case, but for the people that went along with it, and then they suddenly became elevated, I don't think a lot of them noticed that it was because they had hauled themselves.
I just think that they thought that this success was always going to come their way.
And when they could jump on a bandwagon to get that success, they still gave themselves the credit.
And in a similar way, the people that were against COVID and suddenly zipped ahead and became free speech pundits on GB News or whatever they were doing or wrote a book, they then also thought that that success had been their rights and was always coming their way and wasn't just a fortuitous set of circumstances because they'd had this moral principle.
Those are the people that then wanted to keep everything in the same way and didn't want to talk about anything else because it meant that they would still have to be moving forward and they still have to be thinking and they'd still have to be making progress.
And I think once people get to a certain stage, they just want everything to stop and petrify around them so that they can maintain their status.
And he would say the same thing about Christianity in that...
The point is not that you can suddenly be perfect or live in an imitation of Christ.
That's not the point.
It's that you recognize that that is an ideal that you try and work towards and you try and improve yourself.
You're trying to improve yourself all the time and it's a question of movement.
So the people that are doing wrong are the people that are just trying to stop moving and cover themselves in the accoutrements of being correct.
Basically the...
The clothes of power, I suppose, or the idea of authority when it's supposed to be your individual journey to bettering yourself.
And then that's when you have a better society.
I'm not selling him well, but it's the most...
Well, you know, it's tricky because my late friend Alexander Waugh was a massive fan of Tolstoy's view of Christianity.
And I think...
Alexander would have considered himself a Gnostic and thought there was no shame in that, thought that Gnosticism was a good thing, whereas, you know, he gets a bad rap from mainstream Christians.
I've read some of Tolstoy's writings on Christianity, and there are lots of moments where you go, yeah, yeah, you make a good point there, Leo.
But I kind of think, okay.
You wrote War and Peace.
You wrote Anna Karenina.
I'll give you that.
That's two points in your favour.
But you're talking rubbish when you strip away the miracles and strip away the supernatural element.
I would say it's objectively the case that the supernatural stuff does actually work.
It does actually happen.
And for Tolstoy to declare, no, I'm not having any of that nonsense because I'm Count Leo.
Tolstoy or whatever.
I just think he's lost me there.
But the principles remain the best and most moral principles, even without the miracles.
I think that's his point.
And also it's different.
So he doesn't like icons or anything, whereas for me the whole idea of an icon containing something...
Holy is that to create a true icon, you have to have no ego in it, but all of the skill of being a conduit for something that's greater than yourself.
So that has, just by existing, if someone's managed to create an icon without putting their...
So they've achieved all of that skill, and they've worked on a tradition, and they've been creative after they've passed all of those steps, but they have no ego in it.
So it's like, I told you this before, the guy that was pleased with getting the perfect likeness of Christ and immediately Christ was so cross his arm as shot off his body.
Not shot off, shot off his body.
I obviously don't think that Christ would come and blow your arm off if you were pleased with your picture.
But I understand that the picture is no longer an icon once someone's pleased with themselves.
Because then they've ceased to be the conduit for something greater than themselves.
They've just become another...
And for someone like Tolstoy, when he's talking about different painters that he likes, he would really be in favour of that Western tradition of realism or really depicting something sensitively that is true to the artist and isn't just to amuse the rich, for example.
Whereas I think in something like that, he's obviously missed the point, hasn't he?
He's missed the point of what he's denigrating.
In my humble opinion, and I'm definitely far inferior to him, Yeah, so I don't agree with all of his stuff.
I don't even like all of his short stories, but this has really changed my world.
And I love these writers like Joseph de Maester and Cortes who completely disagree with him.
They follow the aristocratic principle or they believe in war as being the divine right of kings.
Do they?
Yeah.
Who are these people you cited?
So these older writers like Joseph de Maester and stuff, these sort of arch-conservatives from back in the day.
Never heard of them.
Oh, well, then you're going to love this thing that I'm doing.
So I find these people really interesting, like Julius Savola.
They're quite hardcore people in favour of the aristocratic principle.
You know, that you have the duty is the responsible.
Yeah, noble oblige and all that.
Yes, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And they would say that a war is a noble thing.
Joseph de Maestra believed that you needed to sort of purge the sins of man with the sacrifice of blood.
And Tulsa would agree with you there.
But it's fascinating how they write about these things, and they are all religious.
And this is another interesting point, is that these people really believe that they know what evil is and that they know what good is.
And they are never going to agree with each other.
So they are either going to have to...
Win with force, or they're going to have to win by being right, which would be by not using force.
And so everyone's going to end up either annihilated or following the Christian principle of not using force.
Have you read Storm of Steel?
No.
What's that?
Ernst Jünger.
It's kind of the best war book ever.
It's Ernst Jünger.
He fought his way through the Second World War, just experienced the horror of the trenches, and it's kind of like an ecstasy of violence.
And Ernst Jünger obviously enjoyed the experience.
It was transformative, and he exalts in war.
I was much younger when I read it.
And I just thought, this is so cool.
This is just like, yeah, war.
War.
What is it good for?
It's good for this.
It's cleansing and it separates the men from the boys and the sheep from the goats and it's the ultimate experience.
And now, I just think, well, hang on a second.
Do you know what...
Who started the First World War?
Do you know who started the Second World War?
Do you know why they were started?
Who started the Vietnam War?
Who started...
The war is just...
It's not necessary.
It's created by bad people for interests which have nothing to do with the people actually...
The poor grunts actually fighting these wars.
Of course they are.
And if you look at the disgusting way that they...
And worse than that, the disgusting way that we, the people...
Responded to the idea that, oh, our children wouldn't be fit for, they wouldn't be able to stop gaming, they wouldn't be able to put on a uniform because they're too lazy, their nail extensions are too long.
This, I think, might be the most repugnant thing I've heard in the last few years.
The idea that our children aren't good enough to be murdered.
And not good enough to murder someone else.
Someone else's child who they have no truck with.
The idea that my sons are not good enough to die for nothing or to kill for nothing is wicked.
I'm not bringing up my children to kill or to be killed.
That's not what I'm doing.
And it's not because they're not good enough or they're not adequate to the task.
It's because they're better than that task.
And so I was even, this is back to your Putin article, thinking what is the purpose of having these?
You know, these sort of figures that we can't possibly understand because we don't speak their language and we don't know them and we don't live in that country.
Probably none of us have even been to Russia or very few of us have been to Russia, even if we have Russian friends.
And why is it that some of us are encouraged to think, well, Putin has a fair point about the moral decadence of the West or to be invested in Zelensky as some heroic figure in his combat fatigues?
How have we been persuaded to be involved in something we can't even understand?
And I think it's because we don't speak the language, the culture is anathema to us, and we've not been there.
I don't mean anathema in that way.
I mean, we have no familiarity and no investment in it.
So why are we...
And it's a bit like...
I think we need to look ahead.
As they're trying to have a one-world government...
Because they're all collaborating with each other on some level.
It's only going to work, isn't it, if all of our dreams are put in the wrong place.
So I've noticed that the worse things are locally, the more globally minded people become.
The worse something is, the further away they seek the solution.
I do not understand how anyone could invest morally in their minds in a different leader, in a different country, in a place that they've never been.
It's nonsense.
It's a fantasy.
It's like going to Mars.
And everyone seems to me to be lost in one fantasy or another at the moment.
They're either invested in this stupid space program or they think that Trump's going to save them or that Elon Musk is an autistic genius.
And they can't see that all they have to do is...
Not support Zelensky or Putin or Musk or Trump.
We don't even know who our local MP is.
We can't even get our local council to not put a camera on the end of every street.
So the less we seem to be capable of doing, the more we want to delegate and the further away we want to delegate it to.
And that seems the opposite direction of what we should be doing to me.
And I think in just terms of the general stupefaction of everybody, Everybody's wearing wearables now in London.
They're all tapping with their hands.
They're all constantly plugged into something.
They have no awareness of what's going on around them.
And it's repulsive.
And really things are becoming quite grotesque.
I was on the train the other day in the morning.
So this isn't late at night.
Because I see everything late at night.
Obviously that's rank.
But this was in the morning.
There was this big bulldog.
with an empty plastic pint glass between his teeth and it was obviously just being finished because he smelt a beer this dog and had bloodshot eyes and there was this old boy next to me and he put a sheet of the metro newspaper down on the ground took out a tin of dog meat cheap dog meat and emptied the dog meat onto the newspaper And this dog dropped his empty plastic lager
drink and started eating the meat off the celebrity tittle-tattle in the train carriage.
And I thought I was going to be sick.
And I don't think really anybody paid any attention, you know, they're just listening to their podcasts or thinking about when they moved to Mars.
We've lost all connection with our immediate environment.
Yeah, there are people doing crack on the tubes now.
But I don't know.
There's something, at least crack, that somebody's desperate to do something because they're a junkie.
This bloke just, his dog was fine.
His dog wasn't howling for food or anything.
He just wanted to feed the dog a friend.
Yes.
Why would you do that?
What I mean is we've become completely disgusted with ourselves.
We're completely uninvested in our own situation.
And that is why they're able to sell these mad stories to us.
Because people, when they can't handle their own immediate environment, become fantasists.
Well, that's, of course, the purpose of things like football.
To people to contract out their own lives to these overplayed...
Overpaid prima donnas on a pitch.
And they can invest all their hopes and fears in these cartoon characters and ignore the message their own lives are in.
It's the same thing with these women that obviously aren't real.
But these stories keep coming up everywhere.
And I didn't watch any of this stuff.
I'm not interested in any of this stuff.
And even I was having my nails done.
Thank you.
And she mentioned that woman.
Who I hadn't heard of.
The blue one.
And who'd had sex with a thousand men or something.
But this is obviously a lie, James, because she would be dead.
She would just have internal organ failure.
So we've got to think, why are we being persuaded to believe that there are a thousand weak men that would queue up for something like that?
And why are we pretending that there is one woman who could survive it?
Why are we being...
Even the music, the...
You know, who is, what the hell is Beyonce?
She's just the, you know, the most popular whore in the brothel.
She's just there and dancing in the windows.
Our whole...
She's the most evil one, apparently.
No, no, no, but I mean, really, really, like, just next level, apparently.
She's just gross.
But it doesn't matter.
Who plays if she's...
This is another thing.
On our side, we just love to, you know, look at leg-to-hit ratios and stuff and gossip about who's...
Done more nefarious things to more children.
But really, it's just a different kind of gossip, isn't it?
They're all disgusting and we shouldn't be paying them any attention at all regardless.
But I just more mean that this whole, the football stuff, the porn stuff, the whole, every music video, the repetitive sounds, it's as if we're being, well, we obviously are being hypnotised, aren't we, en masse?
The thing is, you talked earlier about the gulf between, you know, why one cannot talk to normies anymore.
And I was just glancing idly at the wife's newspaper.
And there was a story about, it was called something like, Elton finally learns to say sorry.
And the story was about, he's written a song about sorry.
Anyway, Elton John has apparently made up with Madonna.
Oh, my God.
Before, he once called her a fairground stripper or fairground slag or something.
And I looked at this and I was thinking, this story requires you to care about this man, this creepy old gay guy that you've never met and whose songs are really quite bland when you look at it and a bit creepy.
I was thinking the other day, Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy.
That sounds like anal sex to me.
And this Madonna creature, this whore who kind of played with all the kind of Christian imagery and subverted it and stuff.
And so you've got these two repellent characters.
She has become an actual monster now.
Have you seen her?
Have you seen what she's done to herself?
Yeah, no, it's horrid.
It's horrible.
Is this a problem that have I seen?
I'd rather not think about it.
I feel bad about mentioning it.
But the idea that we live in this world where it's a story about two people you've never met and you should never know about because they're just wrong-uns through and through.
And these people are being...
The story says, you should care that this creep has...
Made peace with this creep.
And I'm thinking, why?
Why are we even reading about this?
Why does...
Well, I do agree, James.
I think at the moment we're just supposed to not notice what's happening.
But the things that are happening that we should notice and that we can stop.
I mean, we can't stop certain things, can we?
Like geoengineering or...
Well, we can't.
I wanted to ask you about that, by the way.
Have you been...
Have you been unsettled, as I have, by all these blue skies we've been having, which are redolent of the lockdown era?
The last time we had uninterrupted blue skies like this was during the lockdown.
Well, I've seen other people say this, but where I am, it doesn't stop.
In North London, it doesn't stop.
And where my father is on the coast, it's intermittent.
You haven't got blue skies now?
No.
No, look.
Well, oh, you've got the grey...
Yeah, and they start really early in the morning, and it doesn't stop, so I'm not worried in that regard.
Ah.
No, I mean, it's been blue, blue, blue here in the sticks, and...
You're not lucky.
Nice.
I'm loving it.
I'm absolutely loving it, but at the same time, I'm thinking, whoa.
Something's up.
It's quiet.
It's too quiet.
I think we're going to...
I don't feel very confident, generally, just because they've got away with it.
So people genuinely don't want to think about what happened in the last few years, and they think you're rude or implying even to remember that whole period of lockdown.
And if nobody...
If nobody has even had their knuckles wrapped for that, I'm not suggesting it would be serious, but even if there was a pretense of someone having to answer for that instead of the pretense of an inquiry that said they didn't do enough or whatever it was,
they didn't follow it.
But we get the gist.
What I mean is that people in government are not there for our benefit.
You know, they've just got authority over us, but they're subject to all the same whims and desires.
And it's true that power corrupts.
And nobody has had to lose any power or lose anything from the last few years.
So it's obviously going to happen again, isn't it?
Oh, just like all these people on our side who say, well...
What are you doing to change things?
Why aren't you joining this group which is campaigning against so-and-so?
And maybe this is just a sort of cop-up, but I'm thinking, look how many people have been radicalised by the mass poisoning of the populace by the government, deliberate and obvious and ubiquitous.
It has been virtually non-existent.
So if they can do that, Then I don't think that this popular revolution, which is going to change everything and going to make everything nice, is going to happen.
Revolutions always make things worse because they always just switch over the power to even more paranoid people who are even more excessive in the way they keep hold of that power.
That's not going to be the way.
The way to have any power at all, the way to resist, is going to be by non-compliance.
And it's going to be by principled non-compliance.
Open, principled non-compliance.
So when people wanted to pretend to have been vaccinated, when I knew that they would take the vaccine rather than tell the truth, I encouraged them to pretend that they'd had it.
Of course you should lie rather than poison yourself for a lie.
Especially when you have children responsibilities.
But obviously the way to resist is to say no to something because there is a limit to how many people can genuinely actively hate you for saying no to something.
The most effective thing of the last, probably the only good thing I've ever actually done was publicly saying no to something and losing lots of stuff and not minding.
Because that's all everybody has to know that they can do.
It's not the end of the world.
Everybody can carry on and get over it, even if for a moment they're slagged off or they seem on a surface level to have lost stuff.
And people are just so frightened of losing their things or people's opinion of them.
That's the only way out of this is going to be to not comply.
Obviously there are things that we can do.
For example, we can use cash.
We can not use the wearables.
We can avoid the supermarkets.
There are things like that that we can do that are more important than we realise.
We can chop up all of our reward cards, all of our loyalty schemes.
We can try and disallow all of our cookies, you know, whatever that rubbish is.
We can do those things and they are all good because the more of those things that we reject, the more obvious their pitch has to be.
And that sometimes...
Is noticed by even people like my mother.
But really, otherwise, I don't see the...
I'm not going to work with any of these people who think that they're doing...
I mean, it's all just crap.
There is no actual...
My friend in Ireland, the one who said that I was right and that she should have listened to me, but she's so pleased that she didn't vaccinate her children because her friend's daughter is 13 and has myocarditis.
For after the vaccine.
And another friend of hers, a marathon runner of 42, has myocarditis.
So she thinks that she should have listened to what is...
Forget everything else.
How could a 25-stone Texan need the same drug as an 8-stone Maasai warrior?
How could the two people need the same drug?
How could I possibly need the same drug as my father?
It's obviously a lie.
But she didn't...
She didn't think it's outrageous.
These people deliberately poisoned me.
What a stupid idea.
How did I fall for it?
She just thought, oh, you know, I should have listened to you.
But I don't.
So we're fucked then.
Excuse my language.
But we're screwed, aren't we?
Because if her whole take home from this isn't that she's been deliberately poisoned by the state and that people are profiting from it and that they're still doing this, they're still doing this in my local pharmacy, they're still doing it.
At the surgeries, they're still doing this.
In my GP where the receptionist knows that the Covid vaccine killed her mother-in-law and her father-in-law, she's still there letting people go through to their appointments.
So we know.
So this is just absolute abject demoralisation and pretending that there is anything in our society that the government could possibly help with when they know that this has happened is a nonsense.
So we're going to have to let go of our idea of society as it's currently organised because it's only being used to poison us.
And it doesn't matter if it's our minds or our education or even our moral conscience that we don't seem to mind that other people's children are being sent to war in places that we have no right to be.
I think non-participation is the only answer and that there has to be, you know.
With your head held high.
I don't think it needs to be secret.
I think it just needs to be I'm not participating in any of it.
In your stupid quizzes that you watch.
In your stupid celebrities.
In your stupid mock the week.
In your stupid radio shows.
In your stupid pundits.
In your faux intellectuals.
In your hideous architecture.
In your stupid new football stadiums that show how much progress we're making.
In those ridiculous rockets that aren't going anywhere.
In this disgusting AI art.
The whole thing is rank.
And it's ugh.
I'm glad you mentioned Mock the Week.
I haven't watched that series since it started, actually.
I mean, I think I may have seen one episode.
I know it's got Dara O 'Brien is in it, or it was.
All these idiots that we're supposed to think are clever.
That's right.
That's the point.
You are supposed to think they are clever.
You're supposed to look at those people and say, God, if only I could be as witty and well-informed and sassy as that particular person pushing the establishment agenda.
That would be great, wouldn't it?
Just nonsense.
Embarrassing rubbish.
Yeah.
Actually, that's reminding me of something else I ought to pitch.
I've been producing an exhibition for Bob.
I told you about this already, James, but everyone should come.
It's going to be on in May.
From the 23rd of May in Connacht Street in London, it's going to be his original pictures.
They've never been seen together, you know, because he actually hand paints everything.
It's like when you get auto pieces, which have been triptychs, which have been separated for three centuries, and they're brought back together.
So Connacht Street, I mean, that's W1, isn't it?
W2, yeah.
Oh, W2.
Yes.
Excellent chocolate shop opposite as well.
I've got to stop eating chocolate.
I'm completely addicted.
But yeah, really nice hot chocolate.
But yeah, you should come.
And obviously everyone should come to the exhibition.
There'll be a few book signings and it'll be a really nice week.
I like Bob's uncompromising, hardcore take on everything.
It's quite surprising.
Among awake people, how much backsliding goes on and how much what I call doing the enemy's work for them.
So I just give you the first example that comes to mind.
I posted the other day in my Telegram channel about...
How weird that these blue skies were, you know, that they were clearly allowing us to have blue skies.
And somebody said, I don't believe that they totally control the weather.
I don't believe, you know, if we start saying things like that, then they've won because it concedes this power to them.
It makes them seem more powerful.
And I'm thinking, hang on a second.
Number one.
They do objectively control the weather.
They probably could even do it in the 1940s, so they can certainly do it now.
Their technology is at least 50 years ahead of where we imagine it is, and they keep it secret, so they do control the weather.
Secondly, what's this nonsense about...
Oh, we mustn't imagine them to be more powerful than they are.
These are the people who run the world.
They control the entertainment industry.
They brainwash us.
They control the pop industry.
They control the film industry.
Every politician of any significance is owned by these people.
They own the money system.
They have probably, what, 95% of the world's wealth.
They sacrifice children to Satan.
They can command...
The powers of dark forces, I mean, which aren't as strong as gods, but nevertheless, it's pretty powerful stuff.
And you're telling me, I don't think, I think it's wrong to say that they can control the weather because that is a council of despair and it implies that they're more powerful than they are.
I'm thinking, wake up!
Things are way, way, way worse than you imagine.
If you're going to make these points, you're going to explain away, oh, it's not as bad as we think because my feelings or my wishful thinking tells me that actually it's not that bad.
You're an idiot.
You have to accept that they have won.
They've very nearly won everything.
They've managed to mass poison the populace and got away with it.
Most people, people are dying every day.
My hairdresser was telling me, Paul was telling me, because he deals with maybe 100 clients a week.
So he gets to see more people than most of us do and hear more stories.
And stories like a 35-year-old bloke about to go to work suddenly just keels over and dies.
Well, 35-year-old blokes don't keel over and die normally.
This is happening around us and people are still going, yeah, should I get the flu shot this year?
So I think they might own a lot, but they don't own me.
And in that regard...
Yeah, I get that.
I feel quite happy.
And I do think that the weather is more demoralising than probably everything else, because especially when you have some blue skies, because then you really notice it.
And you notice how grateful you are.
And I don't think it's for me to feel grateful to these people.
And I feel that that's on one level why you have this bin strike in Birmingham.
But that's because when the state goes in and sorts that out, we'll all feel grateful.
If you're not in the countryside, you can at least set fire to things where you are.
Where I am, and I'm in a nice area, I can see that if the bins weren't collected for two weeks, there'd be absolute mayhem.
And not the kind of peaceful withdrawal from the situations that I'm talking about.
I mean, rats, chaos, anger, resentment.
So I don't like feeling grateful to see the sun.
And I don't like feeling grateful that I'm not being conscripted.
I think I feel the sooner everybody separates themselves from this, the better.
But I do understand why people think they're clinging on.
To these ideas that there's some sort of saving grace from the people that are the problem.
That's the issue.
They think, well, you know, they're doing something right over there, or they have to do this there, or they at least...
One second.
me something.
I thought you were on a bowel detox, no?
No, no, James.
And the girl came around once and she was trying to sell me communism.
I got so cross.
Women found her a book on Pol Pot and somebody else gave them to her.
Said she ought to do some reading first.
I mean, what is communism really?
It's just the government trying to get involved in family life.
Oh, of course she did, yeah.
They don't mind redistribution property, do they?
Yes.
He was just trying to sell me something.
Poor chap.
I didn't find out what.
Yeah, I don't know, James.
What can we do?
Just wait.
Wait it out.
Come to my show with Alistair and come to the exhibition.
Try and have a nice time.
I mean, what's your plan?
I just want to have cleaner water, really.
I don't want to be boringly repetitive, but I talked to Alistair about this.
I think I'm of a similar view to Alistair, which is that it's up to God at this point.
Everything that's happened has been prefigured in books like Matthew and Revelation.
And it's coming to pass.
And it's not like...
I don't recall, for example, read my Putin piece, which was, for those who haven't read it, it was basically saying, look...
What was the title?
It was something like Putin's critics are hateful, but that doesn't mean he's one of the goodies.
Because obviously it's a given that the people criticizing Putin are absolutely loathsome.
All the Western leaders posturing about how he's the new putler and stuff.
They hate them all.
They're awful and they should be sent to the meat grinder in this war they've started in Ukraine, frankly, rather than allowing conscripts to die in it.
But there is a certain faction on our side of the argument which believes that there are these white hats out there and they're going to rescue us and that one of them might be Putin because he seems to strand up for...
he doesn't like woke and he doesn't wave the rainbow flag and he doesn't...
He goes and shoots polar bears with his, kills them with his bare hands and riding a horseback, riding a horseback naked and stuff.
And this is kind of, he's a proper strong man and he's, and he's, he's, he's authentic and he's popular.
He's got 80%, 88% of the vote or something.
And, and, and this is great.
And if only maybe he's, he's the counterbalance we need to the, to the, to the wall economic forum.
Obviously it's something that's fundamentally wrong with democracy, isn't it?
Because the only way to get lots of votes is to make people feel hysterical about something and therefore not rational, so they shouldn't count at all.
But what is this idea, culturally I mean, that popularity should be something to be liked?
When I started out, you had in clubs, you had people that would really be awful, maybe to the public, but comedians would understand what they were doing and they would really like them.
There was a certain cachet in understanding what someone was trying to do.
There was a certain cachet in reading something complicated, or there was, you know, people understood that that Osmond guy was not an intellectual, instinctively.
Anyone just posturing as an intellectual, you could see immediately that anyone that had all of their time to just do quizzes with children was not an intellectual.
So what has happened in the last however many years, that people now think that if you have a big approval rating or loads of likes on Instagram or you're on TV and people recognise you in the street, that that means that you have other qualities.
I don't understand it.
Maybe I'm not being clear.
The celebrity idea.
Yes.
So I mean including Putin's popularity.
Popularity like that, 88%, is a terrifying idea.
If anyone was that popular, it means that they've got too much power and control.
It doesn't matter anyway.
So it's not even a good thing if it was true.
But when did it become, in our minds, a sign of quality instead of a sign of nonsense?
I mean, it used to be, if something was completely ubiquitous, we used to be able to see that it was naff or tacky or not ideal.
And now, With this complete dumbing down, it's as if the more crass something is and the more simple it is and the less nuanced it is, that it should have more credit.
I don't understand it.
Your piece obviously was saying that it's a lie because whether or not he's popular, he's not the hero we seem to think he is.
Well, it was even more basic than that.
It's just like, well, okay, so you think that...
Okay, the West is completely ruined.
You know that your own leaders are stooges of the New World Order.
They have no autonomy.
They're corrupt.
They're probably into child sex, and there's loads of compromise on them.
They don't give a shit about the electorate, etc., etc.
Forget it.
But you're saying, but in Russia, on the other hand...
Yeah.
A magical thing happened after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
It was a really bad, bad situation.
And a good guy is a KGB guy.
From the ruins, from the fire, from the embers, came this beautiful phoenix called Vlad, and he's going to save us all.
It just doesn't make any sense, does it?
Well, I'm wondering now if it's even supposed to.
I think it's...
The Trump stuff about the way he's a brilliant actor, I really do think that he's a fantastic performer.
You spoke to Owen Benjamin, but he did this thing years ago about how Trump and Biden were road-tested in the film Zoolander.
It's a very interesting 10-minute clip.
Anyway, but I think it's 10 minutes and it's really, really funny.
And it's just from him, people asking him to do his Trump impression and him feeling that it was too close to Zoolander or the other way around.
And then he analyzes the film in terms of the popularity of the candidates, and he talks about how they used to road test these things.
You know how you send people to a cinema and then you ask their opinion on the film, or you test a character's likability?
He said this is often to take those traits from politicians.
Whatever you think of him, this is an interesting 10-minute thing.
It really, really made me laugh.
But I think that Trump is a fantastic performer because...
It's a sort of parody of what politics is.
You know, it's a big deal.
I spoke to this guy and had an important meeting.
Just like Musk is a parody of what people imagine a kind of geek is that could take you to the...
It's a fantasy, basically.
Obviously, people haven't met genuinely clever people because they do not spend their time shitposting on Twitter.
That's not how they're preoccupied.
But I think for the average person in their bedroom who's feeling frustrated by life...
The idea that there's some cool genius dude out there who's going to build a city on Mars and writes great memes, that works for them as an idea because they've watched so much television that they're completely addled.
And in the same way, Trump makes such a caricature of what an arrogant guy would do.
It's hilarious that people are buying into it, but they absolutely are.
I really feel we've been so, so set up.
I've been given a globe, James, and on this globe is, I think it's a very good point being made to me.
Anyway, on this globe is Israel, and all of the countries are in capital letters, and Palestine is in little letters as if it's a city in Israel.
Right.
I think this happens on lots of maps but I thought it's so strange isn't it?
These things have been decided really and everything is about stopping people saying no and part of saying no is just not being involved and if you look around people are very involved.
They all are justifying these terrible things for whatever reason.
They all have their different reasons.
Oh, it's part of the fate of humanity.
It's inevitable.
Or, oh, it's the only way to have security.
There's absolutely no justification for any of these things happening.
The whole vaccine schedule needs to be put in the bin.
Every pharmacist needs to be shut down who's administering these drugs.
There is no justification for sending anyone to Ukraine or being involved in that war.
There's no justification for what's happening in Gaza.
None.
And there never will be.
And trying to work it out or think of an explanation or an excuse for what's happening is just giving it your energy.
It's completely wrong.
I saw an example of this kind of normie programming in the...
I went into the sauna the other day and this chap that I see around the gym occasionally.
He works in the Formula One industry.
A lot of people do around my parts because Silverstone's...
You know, just down the road.
And he says, so, you're all ready for the Trump tariffs.
What do you think about the news?
What do you think Trump's going to say about the tariffs?
I was thinking, hang on a second.
This guy, he's been pre-programmed to care about the announcements by a US president.
How does he even know that this is the moment when Trump's going to do it?
He's been prepared for this.
He's been told that this is a significant moment that one should all care about, like the Oscars or an FA Cup final or whatever.
So he wants my opinion because it's obviously a thing that one needs to understand and talk about.
And I said, I didn't even know they were being announced, and I don't care anyway.
The fact that you know about it means there's a kind of an agenda behind this.
Sorry, mate, but no.
Can we talk about, I don't know.
Gardening.
Well, we did talk about gardening after that.
And he took it well, to be fair.
But I was thinking the reason everyone was programmed to be very conscious of Trump's tariffs was because I think the tariffs were designed to engineer this massive stock market crash, which has been on the cards for some time.
But they needed some excuse other than, well, basically it's the...
The deep state, the cabal, deliberately crashing the stock market because it's massively overinflated and they've already prepared their short positions and they need to profit by it and they need to destroy what's left of business and stuff and introduce CBDCs.
Rather than having it happen for nefarious reasons, you can just go, yeah, it's that comedy character Trump and his crazy tariffs that made it happen.
He doesn't mind because he doesn't mind playing the bad The bad wrestler in the bad wrestling...
That's another thing that people really don't understand.
The people doing this stuff, they're not attached to the way the public see them.
So the public really imagine that...
These people care for their opinions.
They don't.
They see them as useless eaters that can be persuaded to like anybody by being given any kind of information.
They are totally detached from the roles that they're playing.
And I think that that is something that you cannot explain to a person.
So people talk about controlled opposition, but the opposition that's controlled is us.
It's our attention.
We don't like one thing, so we're diverted to another thing.
We notice, but then we're drawn back in through some terrible moral travesty or some ghastly girl somewhere or a celebrity being arrested.
It's us that's controlled.
It's not the fact that you can inflate someone's ego and give them a load of cash and then they won't comment on something that they can see as obvious, like the proliferation of defibrillators and train stations.
Even that is so peculiar, because obviously no one...
I was in Victoria the other day, and they had a defibrillator, and it said, this one's not working.
The nearest working defibrillator is in the train station, as if you could say to someone, oh, listen, just come upstairs with me.
There's a defibrillator up there, and I can sort out your heart attack.
It's so stupid.
No one would know how to use them anyway, and you couldn't take a person with a heart attack upstairs to a different defibrillator review.
I'm glad you mentioned the defibrillator.
I'd forgotten about this, because there was a...
There was this period, wasn't it?
It was before the fake pandemic thing.
It was before that.
When they suddenly started cropping up everywhere, you're thinking, why defibrillators?
What's going on?
And, of course, now we understand why.
This shows how pre-planned these things are, which is nothing I would point out to those who say, oh, I don't think they can control the weather.
Oh, no, right.
They knew enough in advance to plan to have defibrillators everywhere, knowing that people were going to get myocarditis and heart attacks and other things.
They knew it even before the COVID fake thing happened.
And you're telling me?
Those aren't there to help anybody.
If someone had a heart attack in front of me, I wouldn't be able to use one of those anyway.
It's just more to normalise this idea that you have help on every corner.
That you need that's being provided generously by the state and that these things are normal.
It's not a fruit tree, is it?
If there was a fruit tree in the park and people could pick an apple or a water fountain that wasn't wrapped in bin bags and sellotape sponsored by Thames water like there is outside my train station, none of this is good, is it?
None of this is beautiful.
It's not anything that makes you...
You know, wary of littering or it's not anything that makes someone be pleased to live where they live.
It's all ugly and pointless and stupid.
Very ugly.
No, I agree with you 167% there.
I don't want it to, okay, 500%.
I don't want it to be thought that I was suggesting that they put up those defibrillators because they were concerned about public health.
I totally agree with you.
I agree with you.
We'll be 10,000 next time.
Can you imagine?
10,000% in agreement.
What does our world look like, James?
When all of this is over, are you still in your house and I'm still in my house and we're still doing our things, only no one's watching the TV anymore?
Is that the answer?
Is that the end point?
Yes.
We're just growing our own fruits and vegetables with no flora.
Well, I think that has to be.
I think at that point Christ will have returned.
Probably on a horse, a bit like Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but a good Gandalf rather than just...
Ian McKellen with St Michael and the rest of the Heavenly Army and they're just going to smite the baddies and then we're going to live like Owen Benjamin, I guess.
Yeah, I don't think there'll be anything but maybe some farming, yeah.
There's going to be some farming, it's going to be a lot of gardening I think.
Yeah, it's quite peaceful gardening and there'll be a lot of music.
We're going to have to go so soon, James.
We've been talking for an hour and a half.
I know we have, because I'm already wriggling because I need to go.
Saved by the fowls.
Yeah, exactly.
I didn't tell you my sheep story, but actually that's partly by design.
It's so traumatic, I'm going to save it for somebody else.
It's still too raw.
It's too raw.
Tanya, tell us, have you got any comedy shows coming up?
Oh, James, it's so funny you should ask.
I'm doing one with Alistair Williams.
Top Secret Comedy.
It's going to be the last one in London, certainly for a long time.
So everyone should come to that.
Oh, and come to Bob's exhibition.
Is it May the 3rd?
5pm.
Top Secret Comedy.
And then come also to the exhibition from the 23rd of May on Connaught Street.
James, you look like you're...
I'm holding it in.
Thank you.
Where can people find you elsewhere?
On my Substack.
Oh, now, I always say this, but I've actually been working, and I'm going to start using my Substack.
So everyone should follow me on Substack.
This is going to be lots of interesting things.
And I'll send you emails with the stuff as well, so that you know when you can come to a book signing and when you can come to the Snapchat.
James, you look so uncomfortable.
I'm worried that you're going to shoot us.
I've seen it very quickly.
Thanks, Tanya.
Don't forget to support me on Substack and Locals and Patreon and things.
I've got to go.
I've got to go.
I'm going for a pee.
Okay, that's it.
All right.
How do I stop this recording?
End recording.
Yeah.
Why?
I have to leave it open or anything.
Bye. Bye.
Bye. you
Global warming is a massive con.
There is no evidence whatsoever that man-made climate change is a problem, that it's going to kill us, that we need to amend our lifestyle in order to deal with it.
It's a non-existent problem.
But how do you explain this stuff to your normie friends?
Well, I've just brought out the revised edition to my 2012 classic book.
Watermelons, which captures the story of how some really nasty people decided to invent the global warming scare in order to fleece you, to take away your freedoms, to take away your land.
It's a shocking story.
I wrote it, as I say, in 2011, actually.
The first edition came out.
And it's a snapshot of a particular era.
The era when...
The people behind the climate change scan got caught red-handed, tinkering with the data, torturing till it screamed, in a scandal that I helped christen Climategate.
So I give you the background to the skullduggery that went on in these seats of learning where these supposed experts were informing us, we've got to act now.
I rumbled their scan.
I then asked the question, OK, if it is a scan...
Who's doing this and why?
It's a good story.
I've kept the original book pretty much as is, but I've written two new chapters, one at the beginning and one at the end, explaining how it's even worse than we thought.
I think it still stands up.
I think it's a good read.
Obviously, I'm biased, but I'd recommend it.
You can buy it from jamesdellingpole.co.uk/shop You'll probably find that one.
Just go to my website and look for it.
jamesdellingpole.co.uk
I hope it helps keep you informed and gives you the material you need to bring round all those people who are still persuaded that it's a disaster.
