Riaan Swiegelaar talks to James about co-founding the South African Satanic Church, taking part in satanic rituals and his utilisation of dark abilities.https://www.instagram.com/riaan_swiegelaar/
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Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but before we meet him, a quick word from one of our sponsors.
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If you want interest on it, go to monetary metals.
Welcome to The Daling Pod, Rhianne Swigler.
So, I know that you... I mean, spoiler alert, you are an ex-Satanist who found Jesus.
This is going to be quite boring for you because you've done it before, but just tell us... First of all, in the early days you were a witch doctor, weren't you?
Yes, that's correct.
So how did you get to become a witch doctor?
What inspired you to do that?
Okay, so in 2002, so this is just over 20 years ago, I left the Christian church and I left Christianity because of Christian wounding and rather church wounding.
So then I kind of started delving into the esoteric holistic world and it was via, you know, readings and today I can say certain types of deception that I got involved professionally as a holistic practitioner and then I underwent certain training and
I also did some courses in different aspects of healing and I eventually, around 2010-2011, I got to train in South Africa.
It's called a Twaza.
I got to do that under another traditional healer.
And after that I also opened a shop which was like, you know, like an apothecary in a way, but also a shop that supplied Mutti and all sorts of things like spells and charms and medicine to people and to other practitioners.
And Through that, through a client actually, so now we're moving to 2015, I got introduced to Satanism by one of my clients who gave me a Satanic Bible.
So it was quite a road.
And I think a lot of people are actually not aware.
So a lot of people know about me and they just know that I was involved in satanism and that I was a co-founder and a leader of a satanic organization.
But I don't think a lot of people are actually aware of what happened before I got there.
So yeah.
Yeah.
But there were lots of people.
There are lots of healers out there, lots of people who, well, I mean, given what we know now about the pharmaceutical industry and about conventional medicine, it's no wonder people turn to alternative medicines and to natural plant-based products and things like that.
You're not suggesting that everyone involved in that is kind of under satanic deception?
No, not at all.
By no means.
But I think our landscape in our country is very different.
If we look at, you know, around the world or globally, because we have to keep in mind that in South Africa, more than 70% of our parliament, more than 70% of the people who make and write our laws and who governs this country, go to traditional healers and go to witch doctors and people who aren't even registered with anybody.
In South Africa at the moment, it's estimated that there's about 280,000 traditional healers.
So we have to keep that in mind and I think it's difficult to relate to that if you are from, let's say, another country.
Certainly in South Africa, we have to keep that in mind, is that more than 70%, like I said, of our LPs, of our Members of Parliament, of the people who govern our country, go to these healers.
So, I just thought to mention that.
Well, so I've traveled quite a lot in Africa, including into the sort of the so-called dark heart of Africa.
You know, I've been to, well, it was Zaire when I went there.
I've seen, I've seen animism in action.
I've seen how even the church mixes its services with animistic practices, which is very interesting to watch.
it's like watching sort of that James Bond movie, Live and Let Die, the one set in Haiti.
Correct.
But, so there are obviously lots and lots of spirits in Africa that are called on by the local populace.
What are they?
Are they kind of junior demons or what?
So we can look at it from two sides.
So from a From an African shamanic point of view, they would refer to them as ancestors or different nature spirits that I quite often work with.
So from where I'm sitting today, they are familiar spirits or they are some of the lower level demons in the spirit world.
I mean, even though, like you, I'm a Christian, I've kind of got a sneaking sympathy for some of these kind of... Of course, yeah.
See, what we have to understand, what we have to understand, and I quite often say this in the seminars that I present and in training that I do, is that We look at people and we have to understand that healers, whether they're deceived or not, they still have good hearts and they still have the hearts to help others.
And I also had that when I was involved in doing crystal healing and even when I did root work and witchcraft to help other clients and other people, my heart was still, you know, I had a heart for people and I was also deceived.
So a lot of these people, their intent and their heart is in a good place.
So I'm not saying that people doing those things are evil, but they are also being deceived.
So we have to keep that in mind.
And as we see in God's Word, it's that our war is not against flesh and blood.
It's not against people doing these things.
It's against the principalities.
It's against dark forces.
It's against the demonic that is also deceiving them.
Yes.
You're familiar with Daniel, the scene where you've got the Prince of Persia.
And it gives an intimation that different sections of the world are given over to different sort of supernatural rulers.
Yes.
So presumably there's one that does Africa.
I don't know what he's called.
Is he called the Prince of Africa or what?
No, I think there's different names, but at the end of the day, it all comes from the same place.
It's all from the kingdom of darkness.
So we have to keep that in mind.
I don't really think it's that important to try to figure out which demon is which demon, and which spirit is which spirit, because it falls under the same umbrella.
I mean, I'm quite well read and studied in demonology, so I mean, we can go into the different levels of demons and all of that, but... Let's do that in a bit, yeah.
We'll do that in a bit.
At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if we look at these things from a Christian perspective and knowing what our authority and our identity in Christ is.
I don't really think, yeah, that's just my opinion.
Okay.
So you mentioned earlier, and I didn't quite understand what you were saying, that you fell out with your church over something.
Something happened that made you lose your faith.
There was quite a few events of different things that I witnessed.
And the thing is, I can see today, since I'm walking a path with Christ, and since I've actually met Christ, and I've got to know God and God's heart, Quite intimately in the last almost three years.
If I look at that as opposed to 20 to 23 years ago when I was involved in an apostolic church and I mean I didn't really have a relationship with God.
I was very religious at that time certainly and I knew scripture and I was In my second year of seminary school, and I was going to go into ministry, and I thought I knew God, but I definitely didn't.
So then you interpret, and this is the problem with a lot of people in churches as well, is they think that the church leadership and the pastors and people that's steering that congregation, that that is the voice of God.
And to some degree, yes, it can be.
But if you do not have a personal relationship with God and you are not guided by His Holy Spirit, you're not going to be sure what people say to you.
Whether that is God or not.
So, because I've witnessed certain things that time, you know, like fake miracles and people betraying each other and certain people's attitudes towards other people because of their race, for instance, or because they came from a certain background.
I thought that is how God is.
And then I came to a point in my life where I thought, but then it's not for me because I don't, I can't see myself agreeing with what was happening.
So for the most part, that was it.
And that's why I left Christianity.
That's why I can't say today, I'm certainly not saying that it was the church.
I believe that the church is the body of Christ, it's also the bride of Christ, and it has an important role.
So, I think what happened there was that I was under a false impression.
I'm just going to have some water.
Yeah, do, do So I'll start with that again So, I think what I realized today, because I also deal with quite a lot of people who come from a church-wounding type of space, and the first thing that I try to make them see is that
It's not the church, and it's not God, and it's not Christ who is rejecting you.
It's people in their limitation that does that.
So, because I went through that myself, and that eventually led me, because I came from a broken and hurt place, that led me to satanism.
A lot of people that we are currently helping to get out of the occult and out of satanism, the very reason they got involved in satanism is because they got so hurt by Christianity.
Yes.
Yes.
And that's sad because once you show them who Christ really is and You get them to actually start building their own relation with God and help them with reparation.
They start experiencing God and then they also see that that was not God who actually rejected them.
It was people within a church that they could have had experience with.
So I think that's very important.
Yes, I can certainly see why people might turn to Satan out of a sort of sense of grievance and a desire for vengeance, which actually mirrors the experience of Satan.
Or Lucifer.
Correct.
When he was cast out of heaven.
What does he do?
He spends the rest of his life plotting against God, plotting to hurt him.
So it's a sort of natural path for people who feel rejected by Christianity.
So I've spoken to Satanists or people who've practiced the dark arts before.
I think most people in the world, normies I would call them, think that Satanism is a very, very niche activity.
It's so niche that it barely figures.
They're not aware, for example, of child trafficking.
They're not aware of adrenochrome.
They're not aware of A ritual satanic abuse.
They've been told by the newspapers.
Various cases have cropped up over the years, and they've been persuaded by these official inquiries, which have exonerated all the people who are supposedly involved.
They've been persuaded that it's a figment of people's hysterical imagination.
It's not real.
I imagine you have a different story.
Yeah.
So, when I was a spokesperson for the African Satanic Church, We were constantly, me and another person, who were quite often in the media speaking for Satanism, we were quite often fake scripts and things to say.
So we had to constantly deny that things like blood sacrifices and satanic ritual abuse and those sort of things are actually happening.
And certainly it was.
I was part of that.
I took part in those things myself.
And I still had to deny those things because Satanism does not necessarily have the best reputation.
And what we also have to remember is that when a lot of people get involved in Satanism initially, and this was also the case with me, There's even a type of perception that the devil and Satan does not exist as a being.
It's only an archetype and it's only a symbol and etc.
But as you get deeper and deeper into Satanism, you have to eventually start doing certain rituals and you have to start partaking in certain gatherings and then the devil and the demonic Real becomes very real and it starts showing up.
But you are so far along on that path that you actually believe that you can't get out.
And it's part of that deception that you have sold your soul, for instance, once you've done certain blood rituals and stuff that you cannot get out.
And also people who potentially start thinking even about getting out ...quite often gets tortured and punished in various ways, both by the demonic and also by other people.
So, I can 100% for certain say that the whitewashing, or let's call it the good PR that Satanism is from the inside, is involved in, exists, because I was part of that whitewashing propaganda of saying that, no, we are Satanists, we don't do these things.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, so to speak, or behind the curtain, We were all doing those things, and they are still carrying on with doing those things.
And I also had quite a lot of connections with people who were also leaders and spokespeople of various other satanic organizations around the world.
It was twice a year we had to have these online kind of check-ins of what is going on around the world, what is the agenda, what is the satanic agenda at the moment, How far are we along in terms of that?
So the point I'm trying to make is that for almost five years I was part of that and I thought I was doing it for the right reasons because You are under so much deception.
So you start believing certain things because, again, there's demonic deception, there is group pressure.
There were people in very high places in society who co-founded the organization as well.
So you also get a monetary reward, or I used to.
for what I did.
At the end of the day, it was also a job.
It wasn't just, you know, I did this because this is my religion at the time that I believed in so much.
It was more than that.
It was a job title.
There was a lot of perks involved.
So, yes.
What is the goal of Satanism?
So, the main objective for Satanism is to actually take complete control and rulership of the earthly dimension or the earth plane.
So that's in terms of all levels of society.
There's also a very big misconception that Satanists are all people who wear black and they all have tattoos.
They look a certain way, where in fact the majority of Satanists are very educated, successful individuals.
They are in all levels of society.
Corporate, the police force, health, law, teachers.
We have to keep that in mind as well.
So Satanism has also evolved and changed a lot over the last 20 years.
So if we think of the 80s, for instance, Satanism used to be something that, you know, it was like young children getting together under a bridge,
Lighting candles and spray painting the wall and that type of thing, where because of social media and because of, like I said, how society has changed, the way that people meet and engage with each other and even the way people find each other has changed dramatically in the last 20 years and so Satanism has also adapted according to that.
So the goal is to take, I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but my understanding is you've got God, you've got the fallen angels, the rebel angels, led by, is Lucifer the same as Satan or not?
Yes.
Okay.
Led by Lucifer, who was also in charge of music, I think, in heaven, which is why he gives us Led Zeppelin and stuff.
Their mission is to write God out of existence, to create their own heaven, or their version of it, on Earth, in opposition to God.
Correct.
Is that roughly the deal?
Yes.
That makes sense.
If we think of any area, of power or in such science, politics especially, and to infiltrate that as much as possible in a very, in a very, I want to, yeah, because it's deceitful at the end of the day, but also in a subtle way, and to desensitize people as a whole to certain things.
So without them realizing, people are already becoming more open and more engaging with Satanism.
And people are simply just allowing certain things and living with certain things that is shown to them on TV or social media, in music videos, in all aspects.
So it's a very subtle manipulation and deceit.
But it is being very successful, to be honest.
But it's also, I mean, looking at it from where I am today, If we look at it publicly, it is end-time prophecy.
It is what is meant to happen.
God is also allowing these things to happen.
I can promise you that God is certainly not surprised that these things are going on.
I don't think God's surprised.
No, no, no, no.
I'm with you there.
Well, given that he created everything, he's going to know, isn't he?
He's omniscient.
Of course.
Which actually brings me to one of the questions.
Given that all this is foretold, and we know that Satan loses, Why does Satan attract so many followers, but how do they persuade themselves that they're not going to lose when it's written that they are?
So again, we have to understand that Satanists don't even believe, and I was also one of those people before I met Christ, I didn't believe that God actually exists.
I also didn't believe that Jesus Christ exists.
I didn't believe that the Bible was a real book.
It doesn't have authority.
In their lives, in atheists or satanists or whatever, it has absolutely no authority.
So we have to keep that in mind.
And like I said, I was one of those people.
So I only believed what the deception was, that ultimately we are here on earth for ourselves to have a good time, to get as much out of it as possible, to prepare the earth for the Antichrist.
And then when we die, and if we go to hell, it's going to be one big party.
That is what satanists... Is that what they think?
That hell is like a party?
It's like a rave or something?
Yes, yes.
So that is for religious satanists especially.
And then you obviously get minor denominations within satanism.
So you get atheistic satanism.
They believe that it's only what we can see with our eyes and our physical flesh, and when we die, we die.
Life's the end of everything.
And then there's also a group of Satanists who actually believe more in Lucifer in terms of a They call themselves Luciferians.
So they see Lucifer as everything that is beautiful in our world.
So nature.
Yes.
That sort of thing.
So those are the three main branches of Satanism.
I'll bet the Luciferians think of themselves as goodies.
They think, well, we worship the light.
Yes, absolutely.
They do.
But do they participate in the ritual satanic abuse or do they do other things?
So, in Satanism, if we look at the structure in terms of, if you want to call it the hierarchy or structure.
So, within Satanism, you get different grottos and covens.
So, covens would be your smaller groups of people, anything between 6 up to 20, and then in an area where there is
Let's say more than four covens, you will get a grotto, which is, they will come together, all the covens in a grotto, for certain high days and holidays in Satanism, where the covens would meet monthly, the grotto would maybe meet four times a year at certain high days.
And that's usually at the high days where things like satanic ritual abuse and animal sacrifices and human sacrifices would take place.
In South Africa, the organization I was involved in took it to the next level.
There were already caverns and grottoes throughout the country for more than 30 years that were quite well documented or knew about.
So the South African Satanic Church, for the main purpose, the main vision was to be an actual building where all Satanists could come and congregate if they choose to do that, and also for Satanism to become a recognised religion under the constitution of South Africa.
So that was the main purpose of the organisation.
Right.
Is there a hierarchy?
What's the highest of all Satanic organizations?
So, do you mean in terms of globally?
Globally, yeah.
If you believe in a globe.
Yeah, exactly.
The Church of Satan, I would say, if you want to see it as if there was anything to do with clergy and let's say the Pope of Satanism is still seen as the Pope of Satanism.
But he's dead, isn't he?
Yeah, he is.
But so then obviously he has a bloodline and he has certain people.
So I know that Xena Shrek is no longer involved in Satanism.
Carla Lodve certainly is.
I also had personal contact with her at one stage.
So it's not in terms of that they would make final decisions about Satanism globally, but they certainly influence certain big decisions and choices.
And then in every satanic group, you will get priests and high priests and high priestesses and all sorts of people that take certain positions in terms of clergy, which would dictate the dogmatic things and which would dictate what would happen at a satanic which would dictate the dogmatic things and which would dictate what would happen at a satanic ritual and what are the
So myself personally, I was never a high priest or a priest or a clergy person.
I was only a leader of the organization and a spokesperson.
So I was in a way the person who would coordinate events and who would preside.
over certain things, but there would always be a priest or a high priest or a high priestess who would lead the rituals.
So, yeah.
Is that because you didn't come from the right family, you didn't have the right bloodline?
No, it was because of my time that I was involved in Satanism.
So, a person that takes the rank of of that position, they must have been involved in Satanism for more than nine years.
The number nine is very prominent in Satanism.
If you do your research, you will see that it speaks about the order of nine, the council of nine, nine satanic statements, nine, nine, nine.
It's seen as the devil's number.
So it has a lot to do with that.
And then there is something called generational Satanism, which is people who are born into Satanism.
So they are automatically seen as a certain bloodline just because their parents were involved in satanism and they were conceived during satanic rituals.
So that would be a person that comes from a satanic bloodline.
Yes.
Are you familiar with the 13 satanic bloodlines?
I am, yes.
Springmire.
Does that confirm what you know?
It does.
I can't go into a lot of details, but it does, yes.
Yeah, I mean, I just, I've sort of skimmed it because it gets quite big on genealogy, but I know that Collins is a bloodline.
Lee, L-I, is sort of the oriental one.
There's Rothschild and Rockefeller obviously.
You've done your research.
So let me ask you a question.
Am I right in thinking that When you serve Satan, as these families all seem to do, he does offer benefits.
He does give you earthly success, doesn't he?
Exactly.
So, any type of, if we look, I'll explain it in this way, how that works.
Is that why?
Because this is another question people would ask me quite often is why is there blood involved with satanic rituals?
Why is there blood sacrifices?
Why do people offer their own blood at times and stuff?
So blood is a currency that you can negotiate and buy certain things with.
For earthly gain.
So you make a negotiation and deals with the demonic and with Satan, because blood has a currency for them.
And as we see today, or as I see today, sitting on this side of things and being involved in deliverance ministry, the blood of Christ is the highest currency in the spirit world, right?
The other blood that's used in rituals is also a currency that you can bargain with and get certain things, especially things like fame, success in business.
Massive climbing corporate ladders, all sorts of things.
So anything that you could possibly think in terms of earthly gain and earthly success, you can negotiate for that with love.
So that's what sits at the centre of it, so to speak.
So that presumably is why so many successful politicians and actors and actresses and rock stars have lost their firstborn child.
Correct.
Yeah?
Exactly.
Tell me about that.
So you can make an offer.
That's one of the deals that you can make.
There is a ritual specifically written for that.
And a lot of people are obviously scared to do that.
But let's say you are really desperate, which I mean, a lot of people when they come to Satanism, that's where they are.
So they will literally do anything they can to possibly get what they really want.
Whatever they might think will make them happy.
And then there's a ritual that you can do, even if you're not even planning to have a child yet, where you can say, I am offering my firstborn as an offering for A, B and C. So again, it is like a deal that you make.
And then quite often people who have done this, they might even forget about it, but the thing about Satan and about the devil is he does cash in his checks.
So if you make a deal with the devil, he will cash in on it.
And what we also have to keep in mind is that The devil is not going to come and show you all the terms and conditions.
It will just be, yes, this or that.
But the T's and C's is something, unfortunately, that a lot of people only discover later as things go on.
Right.
So, people are not required, literally, to Participate in the death of their own child or to engineer it?
Does the devil take care of that stuff?
Yes.
Right.
Right.
So, yeah, you're also good.
So, again, I can only talk from experience, from what I've seen and people that I knew in Satanism.
There's also medical professionals in Satanism that would come to rituals and they abort fetuses during satanic rituals for that purpose, if the fetus is in its second trimester, especially.
And also, there's quite a lot of people who were working in abortion clinics, and I know in the States there's a very big satanic organization called the Satanic Temple, who have their own abortion clinic.
So they will literally take those fetuses back to rituals.
That is confirmed, and it's a confirmed fact, and I've seen that with my own eyes.
OK, that's because people don't realise the network that we are talking about here and how far it stretches and what levels of society people are involved.
So, presumably, by this token, a lot of the most successful, famous people in the world have made some kind of pact.
I would say gay, so I can't say that everybody has.
But I can say that the majority of people have, and a lot of those truths are coming out at the moment.
Because people are starting to talk out and we are again in a time where the truth will be revealed.
People won't necessarily be so shocked and do the, if you want to call it, the right thing about it.
But we are going to see a lot of truths coming out.
I mean, I am certainly also not the only person Who was called by Christ and was called by God to speak about things.
There's other people around the globe as well.
But so there's also other people who have witnessed a lot of these things and they are also talking about it.
I have also seen documented footage of certain people in Hollywood who have done these rituals, where someone on the phone has recorded that, where it's kept.
I mean, there's databases where a lot of things are kept as well, so that if people decide, let's say in the future, to talk openly about these things, that they can blackmail them potentially from speaking out.
So it's a very intricate And it's sad, but it is.
And I know exactly what the tactic is, tactics is, to prevent people from leaving these organizations.
And a lot of people are threatened with their lives, a lot of people get death threats, a lot of people get followed, a lot of people get blackmailed with footage from Red Shoals, in case they are even thinking about leaving or talking about it.
So, yes.
Yes.
Well, I want to ask you a bit more about that in a moment.
Can you... So, for example, a very, very, very naughty friend of mine, who's kind of often quizzes me about my Christianity in a kind of... He thinks he's very smart.
And he plays with this game with people where he says, you know, would you sell your soul to the devil you know or would you you know okay so you're not so he says okay so you don't believe in god then then presumably you're cool about saying about how you you know okay i i sell my soul and he gets some of them to do it But you can't.
So your soul does not belong to you to begin with.
So a lot of people who would say that I have sold my soul or people have sold their souls, they might be under deception because I also believe that at a stage after my first initiation into Satanism where I signed a contract with my blood, I was under the deception that my soul now belongs to You signed it in blood, did you?
Yes, I did that.
So, what God showed me after I went through my salvation and during my deliverance period, God showed me that nobody can actually sell their soul.
Whether you're an atheist, a Christian, a Satanist, doesn't matter because your soul does not belong to you to begin with.
So, you can't do that.
It's impossible.
Is it God's?
Yes, it belongs to God.
So, your soul, you can't.
I'm very pleased to hear that, because I do worry about people who just kind of, who are flippant.
Because we've been encouraged in this culture, in the satanic culture, to be dismissive of anything to do with God and with Christianity.
We've been encouraged to think it's a fairy story, or that it's not real.
Yeah.
But it is.
Absolutely.
Can I ask you, have you come across Jesse Sabota?
No.
OK.
It's funny.
You don't seem to be very good at... you ex-Satanists.
You don't seem to recognise one another.
I suppose that's perhaps because the church is so disparate.
Yes.
You know, all around the world you've got groups.
Like I said, most of the people that I've met in person and had contact with was here in South Africa.
Presumably at your rituals, they were attended by some very famous people, very high up people.
Correct.
I've seen lists of people in the UK who've been involved in ritual satanic abuse, and it's really shocking to people, even people I've met.
Who you'd never guess at all.
I can't think of anything more horrible than torturing and having sex with a child.
I just think it's abhorrent.
Do the people who participate in these rituals actually enjoy it?
Or do they do it because they feel they're in so deep and they have to do it as part of the next level?
Or how does it work?
Okay, so what we have to understand about satanic ritual abuse is it is very much something that Some people willingly partake in that, in terms of submitting themselves to that, number one.
Some people have to submit to it because of punishment.
So if you are being punished, you have to do that.
You do not really have a choice in the matter.
So Satanic Ritual Abuse was something that I was very involved in.
So I did a lot of that as a person enforcing discipline and Also for entertainment.
So, at a lot of the satanic gatherings, there were what a lot of people would perceive as BDSM type of rituals, but it was satanic ritual abuse.
There was ritual involved and there was abuse involved and this was done at a satanic altar or on a satanic altar.
So, I've never done personally anything involving minors.
But I have seen other people do this and it's again this thing of we have to understand that people are under the influence and deception of demonic forces.
Firstly, we have to keep that in mind.
And if we look at Satanism, and I'm not encouraging people to read the Satanic Bible, that's not what I'm doing, but we have to remember, Satanism is the only religion in the world that tells you your natural desires and instincts is right.
You should indulge in those things.
One of the satanic statements says that Satan represents indulgence.
That means drugs, sex, alcohol, whatever.
And it's a religion.
Do you understand?
So if we take it, if we look at things from a religious point of view, So, let's think of Christianity and the way that we as Christians practice our faith and how we do things.
Now, if we take it from a religious point of view, imagine a religion tells you that you are a practitioner of that religion, tells you to do the following things and the following things are actually okay.
Of course people will do it because you also get fanatics in any type of religion.
What also happens a lot at these satanic ritual abuse rituals is that there are medical professionals on standby.
There are certain people that are also satanists that are on standby.
So things are hidden.
and covered up very, very well.
But I have... So, when you say they're on standby, they're not on standby to help the children, are they?
They're there to what?
Dispose of the bodies or to...?
No.
So, like I said, I've never witnessed or partaken in satanic ritual abuse where children was involved.
But, for instance, the youngest person that I was involved in, a satanic ritual, was 19 years of age.
But what I'm saying is that a reason why a lot of these things are hidden and covered up is there is quite often at these rituals medical professionals who are also satanists to assist these people in things with wounds and things like that.
Because at the end of the day, the people doing these things, it's about inflicting as much pain and having as much blood as possible running from a body to appease certain demons.
So it gets down to the extreme.
It's really quite intense to actually see those things and to witness it.
So I have a book that's coming out later this year with photographic evidence of these rituals.
Because so many people have said in this country and around the world that satanic ritual abuse never happens.
Yet we have so many victims and people coming out of that from their childhood and from previous years talking about these things.
So I was fortunate enough to use things that initially, when I left Satanism, they wanted to blackmail me with these pictures and these videos.
And I thought, okay, so I'm going to actually use this to expose the truth.
So I've decided to include that in a publication.
And although I am indicating myself and also exposing myself, it's about people knowing what the truth is and what is happening in the world around you, whether you'd like to know that or not, these things are happening.
And it happens a lot.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you didn't yourself experience or witness any, well, you didn't experience any of the, with, with, with young children, but we know it goes on, on, on quite a large scale.
Yeah.
It does, yes.
And is this mainly on sort of high days in the satanic calendar?
Correct.
So what the sort of midsummer kind of thing?
So I'm going to talk from a southern hemisphere point of view.
So the end of October is what is known as Halloween around the world.
That is usually the 30th of October and the two days after that.
All three of those days are high days.
And that is internationally, actually.
It's not just in South Africa.
But one of those three days is specifically just for satanic ritual abuse, for extracting blood from children and animals.
Because the purer the soul is, the higher the currency of the blood is.
That you can negotiate with.
Okay.
I was wondering about that.
Okay, that's why, yeah.
And then, at the end of April... Yeah, at the end of April, going into the 1st of May, that is known as the Satanic New Year.
So, in the southern hemisphere, it's also referred to as Samhain.
And that is the satanic new year, which is another high day.
So that is when a lot of satanic ritual abuse, a lot of animal sacrifices at that time.
The rest of the year is mostly black mass.
Once a month, close to Saturday to the full moon, is when satanic covenants meet to practice witchcraft, astral projection, that type of thing.
And where do they get the children from for these rituals?
So, a lot of the parents who are Satanists would bring their own children to rituals, but this would just be for their Satanic ritual abuse.
That won't be for sacrificial purposes.
So, in this country, and again, I'm going to talk from what I've seen and experienced.
So, on average per day, 72 children are reported missing in this country.
72 cases a day in South Africa, okay?
So...
How many do you think of those children are never found?
That's more than 50% of those cases are never found.
Until this day, there's no trace of them.
There's absolutely no body, nothing.
What do you think happens?
So it gets divided into human trafficking, sex trafficking and satanic ritual abuse and human sacrifice.
That is what happens with those children.
Right.
Now, we know from our Bible that throughout the Old Testament, the children of Israel and the Canaanites, all the surrounding tribes, they're all participating in ritual sacrifice of their children to Baal and Moloch.
Presumably, this is just a continuation of that.
Yes.
And the same gods that they're sacrificing them to, the same demons?
Exactly.
Because we have to understand that you get the Kingdom of God, which is Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
That is the Kingdom of God.
Everything else outside of that is not of God.
So we can call it whatever we want.
We can give it names, we can call it Baal, we can call it Shiva, we can call it Whatever we want to call it.
It's not in the Kingdom of God.
It is the Kingdom of Darkness.
So, yes.
Do these forces ever manifest themselves at these rituals?
Yes, absolutely.
In what form?
So, if we were to look at it from the satanic perspective, when I was involved in Satanism, I would literally manifest in terms of almost a two-dimensional, what you call it, I'm looking for the right word, What do you call if you're in the desert and you actually see a mirage?
So it looks like that.
It looks like a moving mirage.
But you can clearly see the beings with their faces, their teeth, their horns.
So they would come through as that.
I've also seen body shifting where demons take on the form of humans.
I've seen that as well at satanic gatherings.
What, you mean they possess humans?
They go inside them?
No, that's a different thing.
That's possession.
So, they take on the form of a human being.
So, you will actually think that this is a human being, but it is actually a demon that is showing up in human form.
Oh, okay.
And are they scary looking or are they beautiful looking or what?
They are quite often very, very beautiful looking.
But you can see in their eyes and in the way that they would speak that this is not a human being.
Right.
Yeah, I've seen, well you do see it a lot, with people who are clearly bad people.
They sometimes get goatee eyes.
To demonize.
I mean, that's an observable phenomenon, isn't it?
Yeah.
And some of those cases might just be people that are possessed by the demonic.
But some of them cases is demons attacking on the human form.
That, like I said, happens.
I've heard from other kind of satanic whistleblowers who say that the reason that Satanists abuse children is that it is the greatest affront to God because children are the most innocent of his creation and therefore they really want to stick the knife in.
Yes.
That, and like I said, we have to understand within Satanism, when it comes to rituals, whether it's satanic ritual abuse or sacrifices, is that the more pure a soul is, the higher that currency of the blood is that you can negotiate to get certain things.
Because I think a lot of people that do not come from Satanism don't understand how the blood connects to it and why there is sacrifices and why would there be these things.
And again, it's making deals with demons to gain grounds, to get certain things, to achieve certain positions, to get money.
Because you can't do that with God.
You can't make bargains with God.
It's not how he operates, is it?
No, no.
It's the dark side.
Yes.
In the Kingdom of God, we can obviously ask for certain things and we can...
state our needs, but we have to surrender to the will of God, and it's in God's will that things happen for us as the followers of Christ.
It's not that we can negotiate or demand certain things.
No.
I mean, it's quite hard being a Christian, but I'll tell you what.
It's so worth it.
Trust me, from where I'm coming from to where we are now, it's definitely worth it.
I've got to ask you about your moment of conversion.
So you were in quite deep to all this horrid stuff.
Were you, apart from the money, were you getting any benefits from it?
I mean was it, were you...
Was it enjoyable?
Well, in terms of material success, in terms of getting certain perks, in terms of being able to walk around in the world and people being fearful of you and respecting you in the way that I thought it should be, I got all of that.
In terms of access to drugs, in terms of But when I actually met Christ, the one thing that always stands out with me is that I did not actually realize how much it was missing, because it was like
Throughout my life, and especially since I initially left the Christian Church more than 20 years ago, for a 20-year period, I had this Christ-size hole in my heart without realizing it.
So I just knew that there's something that still needs to happen, or some level of success that I still need to achieve.
Maybe it's that, and then I will be happy.
And when I actually met Jesus Christ, and I felt the love that He has, and how that impacted me, I realized that this is what it is.
This is what it's been all along.
So I had no choice but to follow Him.
And that's when I immediately resigned from the Satanic Church, and when I left Satanism, still not realizing what was ahead, but Without thinking about all the details or what's going to be the impact, I just knew I had to follow him.
This is what I've been looking for my whole life.
So yeah.
So how did he appear to you?
How did it happen?
So I've shared this story on many interviews and channels, but I'll do it.
It's not a problem.
So on the 22nd of May, 2022.
There was a... Those numbers, 2022 is one of the bad numbers, isn't it?
I don't know.
Those numbers, 22 is one of the bad numbers, isn't it?
I don't know.
Yeah, it is.
Oh, is it?
Anyway, carry on.
So on the 22nd of May, this was in 2022, there was a meeting at the church office, at the symphonic church office, to talk about a ritual that had to be performed to see, to scry, to look into whether the Antichrist has been born yet.
And all those satanic organizations that we have connections with around the world also had to do the same ritual and then kind of give feedback.
So on that day we had to decide whether it was just going to be me or a group of people that have to perform this ritual.
So I initially said because I have a background in the occult with divination and with seeing, but I'll do this by myself.
So two days later, now we're on the 24th, is when I went by myself and I booked out, there was a temple area in the Satanic Church that was reserved for kind of, you know, special occasions, if you want to call it that.
Which was a completely dark space, a ritual chamber, and you had to light it up with candles.
So, as I was preparing to do that ritual, I lit up candles at five points of the pentagram.
And then I'm not going to, you know, go into the steps of a satanic ritual, but at the beginning there's also a gong that you would hit.
So as I was about to do that, the whole room lit up as if there were actual lights in the room, either from, you know, the roof on the side.
So I initially thought, Somebody's obviously pranking me or whatever and as I turned around I saw this figure and I said reveal yourself obviously thinking that this is now a demon again showing up like at all the previous rituals.
And as he stepped forward, I started seeing the features of his face, the outlines of his body.
And I asked him, who are you?
And he said to me in the most beautiful clear voice, I am Yeshua of Nazareth.
And I said to him, there's no way I'm through with it.
And he flooded me with the most incredible, insane amount of love right into my chest.
And I fell to the floor.
And when I still can't remember whether this was a minute or how long it was, but when I eventually gathered my, my cognitive mind again, he was gone.
So I went home.
I closed off everything.
So I went home and I was going through the motions of this is either me going insane or this actually happened.
So firstly, I stayed in bed for almost three days.
I was exhausted.
I was so drained, as I've never been in my whole life.
And one morning I woke up at 3am and I heard a voice telling me to go to the beach.
So I went to the beach and God started speaking to me.
It was like an inner voice, but it was so clear.
So I started having conversations with God.
about my life, about everything that I never understood, and I got all the answers, like literally.
So it was very clear to me what I had to do and what the rest of my life would look like, not seeing the details of it, but knowing that from here on I'm following Christ and not realizing how much deliverance I still had to go through.
But in terms of the official side of it, I then had to resign from the Satanic Church.
They asked me to keep it quiet for a month because of media things.
And what I didn't realize at that time was this all happened because thousands of people around the world were praying for me.
were interceding for me because my face was out there.
When the satanic church went public, people around the world knew about it.
So thousands of people were praying for me.
And this was God answering those prayers.
Gosh!
And yeah, that is like such a blessing and I am so grateful.
And it's grace.
I mean, of course it is.
It's all grace.
So, I don't know if the race is important, but that was my encounter.
Well, that's amazing.
I'm interested that Jesus called himself Yeshua.
Is that how you knew him?
Is that why he called himself that?
I could honestly not tell you.
Why?
I don't always refer to Jesus as Yeshua.
I'm very comfortable to call him Jesus Christ, or Jesus my Savior.
So I don't think it has any specific meaning, or I never felt convicted in my spirit that that is what he wants to be called.
But that's how he introduced himself to me.
Did he look like the Turin Shroud image?
Yeah.
Exactly.
I think, I think that's what he does look like.
No.
I don't think that's just kind of made up stuff by... The eyes, the eyes is different, but in terms of the features and the bold, shoulder bold and hair and stuff, very accurate.
The eyes is deeper and more kind and soft than the Shroud of Turin.
But the race of the facial features, exactly.
Oh, lucky you!
I mean, but presumably you've had to pay a price for all this.
I mean, I'm... No, you know what?
You know what?
I can tell you honestly that there would be no way that I would have believed in Christ or God if it did not happen in that way.
And I think that God also in His wisdom knew this, because for me to be saved and to actually believe in Christ, that was the way for God to reach me.
That was the way that Jesus ran after me.
I think most people, most Christians especially, they find Christ because they go to churches And they believe the Bible.
So I don't think everybody would need an experience like that to believe.
Because I've asked God about it many times.
I mean, there was a six-month, nine-month period where all I did for six to nine months was spend time with God.
I didn't work.
I didn't do anything else with my life.
I was writing.
I was in prayer.
I was building a relationship with God.
And I still am.
I'm just saying that last year, I had the time to do that.
So, I constantly ask, but why?
Why did it happen in that way?
Why me?
Why this?
Why...?
And God has shown me, through Scripture, through people who is also doing interceding for me, and my religious leader, etc., that this was the way for God to reach me.
Sorry, I'm just being distracted for a moment there.
I've just looked at your... Have you got really bad internet?
No, I've got fibre.
So, my speed is very high.
At the moment, it's telling me that you are 0% uploaded.
Which is... I've never had that happen before.
That is weird.
I mean, I tell you what, this would not be my first experience of whenever I talk about material like this, I find that sabotage takes place.
But that's really weird.
I mean, I don't know what we do about that.
whether it'll upload, if you have to, you have to leave your computer on, but 0% is really kind of, um, bad.
You can't get much lower than 0%, can you?
um Well, let's hope that something happens.
Do you feel that your life has been endangered at all by... because, I mean, they don't want people living Satanism, do they?
So, in my case, after I left, so now we're moving to about... so from June, from June 2022, when I started speaking about things, immediately I started getting gag orders and court orders and interdicts that I'm not allowed to speak about Satanism because of the non-disclosure agreement that I signed.
So I had a...
In blood.
Sorry?
Do you sign it in blood, the NDA?
No, no, no.
That was after I resigned.
They forced me to do that.
And so, until early this year, I was not allowed to talk about anything, because the Satanic Church, as an organisation on paper, still existed, so that NDA was in place.
And then we had to go through a process of deregistering that organization.
So out of the seven co-founders, I got four people to help me that we can deregister it.
So the moment the deregistration went through, legally that document was not binding anymore and I could start making content again and start talking again.
So, yeah, and then obviously a lot of death threats, a lot of... I've realized at one time, early this year, I was followed quite a lot.
But you know what?
I actually believe if I'm being obedient to God in doing what I'm doing at the moment, that I am protected.
Because that is what the Word tells me, and that's what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me many times.
It's like, you are being obedient, therefore you are under the protection and under the blood of Christ.
So I can choose to believe that, or I choose not to.
But God has never failed me.
In the last two years, once.
The Holy Spirit has never lied to me, once, in the last two years.
So, I believe that promises.
I believe God's Word when He tells me, when you are being obedient, you are under my wing.
I really wish I had that direct line to the Holy Spirit like you've got.
It'd be fantastic.
Everything would be much clearer.
Wow.
What really comes across in your story is the importance of prayer.
Particularly of praying for, well, praying for your enemies.
Yes.
Is that because Given that God knows all our needs already, before we ask for them, explain to me why prayer is so important.
So, prayer is the most accessible but most powerful tool that we have as the followers of Christ.
Prayer is worship.
It's a request.
It is affirmation.
It reminds us of our identity in Christ.
It shows us what our identity in Christ is.
Our authority in Christ is through prayer, that we speak things and that we pray and give thanks and ask.
It absolutely makes the devil flee, if we pray out loud especially, because remember that the enemy can put thoughts into your mind, but he can't read your mind.
Only God can read your mind.
So the enemy, the first initial level of demonic activity, Especially for us as Christians, it's thoughts, invasive thoughts that get put into your mind.
So, demons can't see whether we are responding to those thoughts unless we do something in action or in words.
So, we also need to understand we're not just talking about praise.
So, the spirit world observes us all the time.
All the whole time.
So, everything on the physical world It's observed by the spirit world the whole time.
So, when we pray, and especially when we pray out loud, or softly, but we speak it, the whole spirit world can hear us, right?
So, through that, we affirm our identity in Christ.
We can rebuke Satan if we need to do that.
We can rebuke those thoughts.
We can rebuke attacks.
Resist the devil and he shall flee from you.
That is also prayer.
Right.
So you're a great believer in praying out loud?
I am, yes.
But I think it's mostly because I'm involved in deliverance ministry today and I'm assisting a lot of people with their reparation and deliverance.
So it is quite important, especially if you are in spiritual warfare most of the time.
And the thing is, I do not think that me personally, as a Christian today, are being attacked more than the average Christian.
I am just more aware of those things because I have experience with it, and I know today What the enemy's tactics is.
I know the battle plan of the demonic forces.
I know because I've been on that side and I can work with that side.
So I am much more aware today as a Christian of how that works and what the nature of that is and what is the battle plan and how to unmask
That is certainly what I'm trying to do with these interviews and with doing seminars and presenting training online and those things is to equip the body of Christ and to equip Christians so that we can see what our power, our authority, our identity is in Christ and that we know how to deal with it.
I'm going to be so sad if our conversation hasn't recorded.
That would be the work of the demons, wouldn't it?
Yes.
If it doesn't happen.
Yes.
They're little sods, aren't they?
No, they are.
They're what?
No, I agree.
They are.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, they are.
They're meddlers.
I've seen this before.
It's happened too often.
for it to be a coincidence and they always go for these kind of conversations.
I think you've mentioned before about the power of prayers in protecting children, that it creates a kind of a barrier.
Can you tell me a bit about that?
Yeah.
When I was involved in Satanism, I didn't understand it as much, but today I understand it, obviously.
When I was involved in Satanism, there were some members of satanic groups and covenants who were involved in the school system, teachers, etc.
So, they would quite often come to satanic gatherings and say that they've tried with certain children, and it's very easy to actually put thoughts into their mind, either astrally or by projecting it.
And then some children, they just have this, like a torch, a flame, a blue ring that you can't penetrate.
And they don't understand why.
It might be that the children are maybe
Also protected by witchcraft, but it could be a different type of, you know, and then when later, when I started dealing with things, like I said, through the deliverance ministry, we noticed that these children are covered by the blood of Christ because their parents are standing in for them in the spirit world by praying because parents have authority
Over children, as interceders.
Because I always tell people, your parents, whether it's your mother or your father, they are your most powerful intercessor.
And it doesn't matter how old you are.
If your parents are believers and they prayed for you, that is your most powerful intercession.
That's your most powerful coming.
Because of bloodlines, because of generational things.
So, parents who pray for their children and who pray the blood of Christ over them, those children are protected and shielded against those things.
Wow, well that's good because I think my parents are both Christians and I'm sure they pray for me and I pray for my children.
That's really good.
So, prayer is really important.
Have you come across the Psalms?
Do the Psalms have any power, do you find?
They do.
they do.
Yeah.
Because I don't know whether you know, the Psalms is one of my obsessions, if you like.
And I say the Psalms every day.
I mean, not all of them, but I've got about 30 in my repertoire now.
And they seem to be like kind of magic spells, but of the holy variety.
Yeah, I won't call them magic spells, but they are a foundation that we can stand on as believers.
So you can pray Psalm 91 over your household, for instance, and you can pray Psalm 91 by reading it and praying it, and it's very effective.
And again, to speak it, yes.
Yes, Psalm 91 is a real goodie.
So how do you pray to use it as a form of protection?
How does that work?
Just say it.
You say it with the intent of, I am standing on this as a follower, as a child of God, and I'm reading this out loud, but I'm not reading it to gain, let's say, information from it.
I'm reading this out loud to pray this over my house.
And it's about the intention, because God sees our heart, believe it or not.
So that's all.
It's not a whole thing about Rachel and Hal.
At the end of the day, this is all about intent.
The moment that you are a follower of Christ, that you are a child of God, We have to also remember that God wants a close, intimate relationship with all his children.
That's God's heart for us.
And because God really loves us.
I don't think people have any idea how much God loves us.
So if we keep that in mind, and we say that, Father, I need you to protect my household, my children.
I'm going to read this psalm out loud.
And I am... I am... What's the word?
Again, the word invites me, but I'm standing and I'm claiming this promise that you make in your word for us by reading this out loud.
And then you do it.
That is exactly what happens.
Oh, OK.
That's really good to know.
What...
So our souls belong to God.
What happens to the souls of the damned?
Of the people who, the really high up people in the satanic church, for example, who are participating in this stuff on a, you know, just slaughtering children and just really, really doing evil things.
What happens to them?
I think it's in the Bible.
But, I mean, it doesn't mean that nobody can be saved.
I was saved.
So, I was saved.
I made a choice.
God does not send people to hell.
We choose, right?
We choose are we going to hell or not.
So everybody says things like, how can a God of love send people to hell?
No!
God gives us all an opportunity to make a choice.
Do we accept His love, His grace, His salvation, and have a relationship with Him, and we are saved through Jesus Christ?
That is the only way to God and to have the Kingdom of God, is through Christ Jesus and because of what He did on the cross.
So we either embrace that or we don't.
So if we don't, whoever you are, it doesn't matter whether you're an atheist, a Satanist, a Hindu, a Muslim, that is what it is.
It's a choice whether we go to hell or not.
So, yeah, I don't know if that answers the question.
These are big questions which I'm often asking people and I don't think we can only go on scripture and on tradition and stuff.
And we also have to understand that there is consequences of certain things.
We, all of us, if we engage in sin, for instance, or if we do certain things, there is a reaction, there's consequences of those things, and we will experience those things, I mean, literally on earth, whether we like it or not.
Because the moment anybody moves, or our father moves from God, or engages in certain things, there is consequences of those actions, because the world and how it operates in essence, in its creation, functions a certain way.
And then there's obviously the afterlife.
So, like I said earlier, people seem to think, and it's especially people who are non-Christian, which quite often ask me about If God is so loving or the God you serve, why do people go to hell?
Then I said, they chose, because you can't tell me that they never heard or were in any way convicted to look at their lives at a certain stage.
And again, it's a choice that people make.
So what do you think happens when we die?
I believe what the Bible says.
Yeah, but the thing is I listen to a lot of podcasts by Christians and they all interpret it in different ways.
What's your personal view on what heaven is like?
Again, what the Bible says.
So tell me.
So, Heaven is where we go through Christ Jesus.
It's the ever-after life.
God is on the throne.
He rules.
Jesus Christ is on his right hand.
There are all the angels.
Well, the two-thirds, that's obviously supposed to be there.
It's a constant state of worship and God's love and experiencing that ultimate love of God.
That's what it is.
Right, right.
Well, I'm just worrying, worrying, worrying, worrying.
You're still 0% uploaded.
That's weird because on my side it says 99%.
Does it now?
Yes.
That's interesting.
That's really interesting.
I've got about 10 minutes left before my next appointment.
OK.
Well, that's good.
What have I not asked you?
I think we've been pretty thorough, haven't we?
What have I missed out on?
No, I think it was good.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm very happy for you, Rian, and I do hope that your word gets out to lots of people.
I think, really, the stuff about the importance of praying for your children and protecting them is It's good to have this stuff from the horse's mouth because sometimes, you know, you can read your Bible and you can immerse yourself in the scriptures and you can take communion and stuff, but that only gives you the Christian side of things.
It's quite interesting to know how the dark forces operate.
Yes.
How they think.
Yes.
And what their game plan is.
Yeah.
And especially again, um, in the times we are at the moment, there's just so much more, so many more attacks and, um, you know, like almost like the enemy persuades or tries to persuade, um, people more and more and more because his time, end time is near.
Yes.
It does seem to me that they are getting more blatant.
That, but so, Yes.
Whatever they've been deceived to believe.
And what's it going to look like when they win?
Whatever they've been deceived to believe, that, again, they will rule the earth forever.
Is there a kind of division between the Luciferians and the kind of the Satanists?
Do the Luciferians feel superior to the Satanists?
I'm sure there's that sense in all denominations within Satanism that, you know, we are right, you are wrong.
You get that in most religions.
You do?
Yeah, it's not really unique.
I think that's part of the human condition.
I'm also just that in Satanism, it's very competitive.
It's constant competition.
It's constant trying to get to the highest rank.
So people are betraying each other left and center, left, right and center.
I mean, people who I had at dinner parties at my house and who were very close friends with me, who shared very personal things with, from one day to the next, we suddenly weren't friends and they started betraying me as well.
And speaking ill things about me.
So that's another thing about Satanism, that when you're outside, you think that this is a tribe or a family that's going to accept you for being this different individual, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Once you're inside it, it's constant betrayal, constant people working against you, constant jealousy, constant gossip.
So, yeah.
Yes, well of course it's sort of an inversion of Christianity, isn't it?
Because all the things that Paul enjoins us to do as Christian behaviour, what you've just described is the opposite of that.
You're not a family, you're constantly jockeying for position and climbing up the greasy pole.
Is there a title for the top rank?
Yeah, like I said, so Archpriest or Archpriestess would be the absolute top title.
And then, like I said earlier, Highpriest and Priest, Highpriest and Archpriestess is kind of the top ranking titles.
Right.
I'm pretty sure I heard that Obama is very, very high up.
Really?
Yeah.
I can't confirm that.
That I can't confirm now.
Ah, well that's a shame.
Yeah, so, well, it's been really enjoyable talking to you, and very enlightening.
So tell us, presuming that this does upload, tell us where we can find your stuff.
Yeah, so at the moment, it's mostly my social media and profiles that I share things on.
So Facebook and Instagram, I'm quite active on there.
And then in terms of the courses and things, we're basically putting a website together, which will probably only be live in less than two months from now.
And like I mentioned, there's also a book that's coming out finally, but only also in about a month plus.
That's first going to be available in print, both in English and Afrikaans, and the next year that will be available in PDF format as well.
Great.
Well, thank you, Rian.
And I'm so happy.
I'm so happy that all those prayers Brought you back to the good side.
Because imagine, you could be on the way to burning in hell or freezing in hell right now.
Exactly.
And you're going to save a lot of people, so that's good.
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