Michael is a revisionist historian who describes himself ‘a lover, not a hater’. A former reporter for the New York bureau of the Associated Press and author of nine history books - many of them currently banned.https://www.revisionisthistory.org↓ ↓ ↓If you need silver and gold bullion - and who wouldn't in these dark times? - then the place to go is The Pure Gold Company. Either they can deliver worldwide to your door - or store it for you in vaults in London and Zurich. You even use it for your pension. Cash out of gold whenever you like: liquidate within 24 hours. https://bit.ly/James-Delingpole-Gold
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- Welcome to the Delling Pod with me, James Delling Paul.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, But before we meet him a quick word from one of our superb lovely sponsors James here a quick word about gold and silver.
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Welcome to The Telling Pod, Michael Hoffman.
You've been much requested, I have to say.
I hope that's good news for you.
I know you haven't got much time, so I'm going to ask you some entry-level questions.
But first of all, can you tell me a bit about yourself?
How did you come to be an expert in the occult and what you call the cryptocracy?
I don't know if I'm an expert.
I'm more of a Fortean, after Charles Hoy Fort, the epistemologist in the early 20th century, who really didn't believe in expertise so much as being a witness.
But thank you for that nice title, anyhow.
Well, I started out as a reporter for the Associated Press, very much establishment.
And then I started covering some of the quintessential serial murders, which the main one, David Berkowitz's Son of Sam, although Son of Sam wasn't limited to Berkowitz, was right in my bailiwick of New York, where I was based, the New York Bureau of the Associated Press.
And from there, I started to see a lot of anomalies, a lot of things that were quite wrong.
And I became an independent investigative reporter and eventually launched my own book business and what we have here today.
I was also born in what's known as the psychic highway.
I'm always interested in the toponomy Or geography of these things.
I remember when I was visiting England, and my daughter and I, and we made a special pilgrimage up to Haworth to see the Bronte Mansion.
And I was surprised, it won't surprise anyone in Britain, but I was surprised to see this vast expanse in the back of their little tiny house there, which reminded me of Montana.
And here it was in England, which I pictured as very crowdy and claustrophobic.
And I thought, that's how their minds were expanded by seeing Howarth.
And so for me, the toponomy and the geography of these things is very important, especially what's occurred along the 33rd degree line of North Parallel Latitude in world affairs and esoterica.
And so in my own case, I was born on the psychic highway, which is the 42nd degree of North Parallel Latitude.
Which I mentioned in my book, Twilight Language.
In fact, I studied it at some length.
And that's where even mainstream historians will concede that it was sort of the Berkeley, California of the 19th century in terms of all of the rather influential and astonishing movements that arose at that time, such as Mormonism, I mean, I knew Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame.
He lived nearby.
probably the fastest growing religion in the 19th century, contacting the dead and things like that.
So it's that orientation.
I mean, I knew Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame.
He lived nearby.
Every Twilight Zone concludes with Cayuga Productions, which is his way of memorializing Cayuga Lake, where I caught my first lake trout fishing.
So it almost seems like a concantation of circumstances has chosen me to be in this particular position.
And years ago, in the 1970s, I was a columnist for Fortean Times Magazine, which then was a little, almost self-published brochure.
I'm kind of sorry to see the extent to which it's gone glossy these days.
And I don't think they'd publish anything that I've written now, but back then I had a flourishing column and I enjoyed the camaraderie with fellow Forteans at that time.
I remember Fortean times from my youth and thinking, well, this is a publication for the crazies.
I mean, my journey has been similar to yours in as much as I spent the bulk of my career working in the mainstream media.
And I had absolutely no idea that what passes for news was just a kind of a construct, a psyop, if you like, an illusion.
But I was trusting.
I thought that if it was in the newspapers, it must be true, because after all, journalists were seekers after truth, and they liked doing things like speaking truth to power.
But it ain't so, is it?
No, it ain't so, as the lady says.
Now, you've already given me something, a thread that I want to follow, and it wasn't where I wanted to go, but are you saying that your geographical location affects how you see the world?
On the 42nd parallel, there's a kind of, some sort of psychic thing going on?
Well, I mean, that's what mainstream historians call it.
They also call it the burned-over district where I was born in upstate New York because they felt that all of this enthusiasm reached a pitch which sort of burned people out in terms of how emotionally.
So, it really isn't a controversial idea because some of these major movements, I mean, consider the effect and impact that the Church of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith, and the Mormons had founded at Fayette, New York.
Which in French, of course, means little fairy, and then moved on to Palmyra, New York, where he allegedly found the golden plates, and the rest is history, as they say.
But from there, of course, the Mormons had a tremendous influence trekking west, and after a Masonic mob murdered Joseph Smith in Illinois, And then Brigham Young took over and established this empire in the West, which remains a significant and impressive movement.
The same thing with feminism.
The first women's rights meeting, substantial meeting, in the history of the West occurred at Seneca Falls, New York, on the 42nd degree of North Parallel Latitude.
And so on and so on and so on.
Spiritualism with the Fox sisters in Hydesville, New York.
And so I'm just basically looking at empirical data here.
That's what actually occurred.
And I like to take those sort of spectacles and move them in other areas.
And most historians will understand that you've got to visit the site, like going to Howarth and seeing where the Brownies wrote all those Or a majority of their books, or at least were influenced to do so, from their upbringing there as homeschooled young people.
And I think it's a fairly prosaic, mundane pursuit to do that, but I think that when you are programming in, or you are considering the fact that the, for example, the 33rd degree line of North Parallel Latitude, and then you begin to look at some of the consequential activities there, the founding of the most powerful Masonic Rite in America, the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry Southern Jurisdiction,
The killing of the King, as James Shelby Downer and I refer to it, in Dallas, Texas in 1963, very close to the 33rd degree line.
The creation and destruction of primordial matter at the Trinity site at the head of the Jornada del Muerto, which in other words, the first atomic bomb explosion, the 33rd degree.
Truth or Consequences, New Mexico.
33rd degree.
Going around to Jerusalem, that's close.
I think Jerusalem is 31 or 32 degrees.
And remember, we're dealing here with an art, okay?
This is as much Shakespearean as it is some empirical statistician's bailiwick, because it can't be solely limited to that.
When your own Dr. John Dee, when he teamed up with Heckelwitt Hacklewitt was the geographer, and John Dee was creating this grid for the rise of the British Empire across the world.
Later on, Christopher Wren would build on that.
So, these are just one of the ways that I think an outsider such as myself takes a look at history.
I'm a revisionist historian.
I believe in constantly revising based on the revelation of new facts and data.
Finding of diaries and letters.
I'm surprised that conservatives in America, for them, it's a swear word, revisionist history, but we need to revise.
And this is part of it, a new way of looking at history.
Although we seem to be in a terminal or apocalyptic eschatological phase of history now with all the things That are happening, particularly with something that I've been studying for the past 40 years, which is the revelation of the method, a new era in human alchemy in terms of processing humanity.
I saw some of that on July 13th when Mr. Trump was nearly murdered.
Yeah, well I'm glad you brought up the revelation of the method because that's one of my favourite phrases and I think we see it a lot, don't we?
We see it in the movies, we see it in the clues that they, whoever they are, offer us in events like the alleged Trump assassination.
They always give little signs and symbols.
Another of my favourite phrases is, signs and symbols will be their undoing.
I don't know whether that's wishful thinking, but they do seem peculiarly obsessed with almost serial killer tags, you might call it.
Yes, that's very true.
There's also a command ideology behind it.
If you look at Nietzsche's 1887 book on the Genealogy of Morals, where he canonized Hassan Sabbah's Order of the Assassins, the Order of Free Spirits, and he equated what he believed was the assassins' abrogation of faith in the truth with human liberation.
You know, that the symbol and watchword reserved for the highest ranks And of the cryptocracy, I would call it.
Nothing is true.
Everything is permitted.
And Nietzsche said, well, OK, then that's freedom of spirit, that faith in truth is abrogated.
You notice he's not saying that nothing is true.
He's proposing that it's the abandonment, the abrogation, in his words, of faith in the truth, which makes every act possible, freeing humanity in Nietzsche's view from guilt and the conviction of having transgressed the law.
So for me, the conspiracy theory community Has not eluded that mental contagion.
I think they've succumbed to it with honorable exceptions.
I've scrutinized the impact of 21st century conspiracy theory and its adherence, and in my experience I've discerned a directed evolution at work.
One might term a conspiracy theory virus, a mental contagion whereby one loses faith in the efficacy of truth rather than an outright disbelief in its existence.
So this is a sin against hope without which humanity descends into despair, defeatism, and self-murder.
And I think that's the point of the revelation of the method, the demoralizing and paralyzing us with apathy and fatigue.
So, for the first time in recorded history, the cryptocracy is engaged in revealing their crimes to us, and their culpability, rather than concealing their nature and providence.
So, the speed of making manifest of what is hidden is accelerating, yet the public is increasingly exhausted rather than energized by these truths.
And this is only baffling to those who discount the Socrates confluence of our time, the ceremonially prepared zeitgeist, which is accompanied by an equivalent alchemical conditioning process, which I think induces the continuing degeneration and bestialization of the human spirit.
And there are many examples, but July 13th in Butler, Pennsylvania was probably one of the prime ones in terms of what I have discerned about it.
Well, tell me a bit more about that.
Tell me some of the things you've noticed.
I'll try to boil it down to three points, chiefly.
Number one, the U.S.
Secret Service did not include in its perimeter, and this is fairly well known now, the building in the vicinity of Mr. Trump's podium where the suspect, Crooks, is said to have fired the shot that hit the president.
They left the crucial responsibility for securing a nearby structure to law enforcement and then did not bother to ascertain whether or not the regional police forces had indeed secured it, okay?
Point number two, the Secret Service audio, which would normally be kept classified so early in the so-called investigation, was broadcast on CNN cable TV news July 14th, one day later.
Individual agents could be heard saying that the shooter was down and words to the effect that there was no further threat.
Really?
Less than a minute after the ex-president had been grazed by a bullet, the Secret Service had ascertained that there was no second or third shooter lurking nearby?
Who would have that information other than parties to the crime?
So the six foot three inch Trump was allowed to stand and become an easy target again after first crouching and being covered by the agents.
The second point is, and this is probably the most egregious, The FBI had declared that the shooter was a lone gunman and had no accomplices, and they made that statement less than 24 hours after the crime was committed.
It's ludicrous!
A criminal investigation truly begins in earnest after a perpetrator has been identified.
The search for accomplices is something that takes days or weeks at least, and a declaration like this from the FBI before the alleged perpetrator's cell phone had even been decrypted as a joke.
It's equivalent to the mocking jests of the aptly named Hellfire Club of 18th century England.
So the FBI's instant declaration fits a pattern of similar omniscient statements by cops in the media, which I have seen in my lifetime with regard to Lee Harvey Oswald, David Berkowitz, Ted Kaczynski, Among others like that.
The same thing happened with Berkowitz.
He was on Newsweek, the sole suspect.
of the American group mind by these kind of rush to judgment declarations of sole responsibility within a day or two of the arrest.
The same thing happened with Berkowitz.
He was on Newsweek, the sole suspect.
I investigated the Unabomber arrest and apprehension and Kaczynski's life as a reporter at that time.
I was on the scene almost immediately after his apprehension.
So, So what's the message here?
Who would be in a position to put forth so quickly and didactically the claim that the accused had no other assistance, direction, or encouragement?
Who would have the brazen confidence to state publicly the certainty that no other guilty parties or accomplices will be discovered so early in the investigation?
And my answer is, James, only the accomplices themselves could make such a statement in the expectation that will be accepted by the public, as well as the media who are supposed to be tasked with investigating the veracity of official statements.
So the crooks behind the only blame crooks theory, now elevated to a rock solid FBI determination, they're not simply testing our cognition and alertness They're laughing at us.
The accounts thus far of the attempt on the life of President Trump comprise a message to the subconscious of America, and it's not a very subtle one.
In fact, it's fairly sloppy, and in my view, from what I know of the revelation of the method, deliberately so.
So I'll give you a chance to jump right in here after this.
In the Revelation of the Method era, our overlords don't object if we come to realize that there's something very wrong with the official government and corporate media tale that is being woven.
Our guardians and watchdogs are lying and misleading us, and our awareness of this truth is anticipated.
This is the Revelation of the Method era.
It's part of their jest.
The joke is on us.
Yeah.
What you're saying rings absolutely true to me.
But it's very interesting how even the what you might call the conspiracy community has been deeply divided on this one.
There are some people who say, how dare you suggest that it wasn't real?
Didn't you see the blood on the president's ear?
And it was just a just a fluke.
No, not even a man like Trump, as reckless as him, would risk being shot in this way.
So how do you account for that?
Because we're talking only a minority of people who actually get this.
Well, I don't see it as staged.
I worry about the concept of staging.
I mean, obviously there have been staged attacks, but you know, this is where People have crashed up on the killing in Connecticut there at the school, claiming that it was staged and these were crisis actors who performed it.
Alex Jones ended up being sued for close to a billion dollars successfully for claiming that it didn't happen in the way that it was said to have happened.
And I'm a little bit different from that.
Before I can see staging, I have to actually be on the scene.
That's my feeling about it.
Or to talk to people who are eyewitnesses there.
And I haven't gotten that flavor.
Now, I agree with you in terms of the burnout factor among conspiracy theorists.
Because I wonder how many of them are actually interested in getting at the truth of these crimes and bringing the perpetrators to justice, and how many are hopeless about that prospect, and in turn are actually thrill seekers who want a shot of dopamine from this thrill, and then they move on two weeks later due to all the noise on the internet, which is constantly distracting us so that we can barely concentrate on one particular issue before we're on to the next one.
And I have seen, at least here in America, that kind of thrill-seeking.
It's very degenerate, in my judgment.
It's like being at a carnival sideshow and going from the hoochie-coochie tent to the magician on to the next spectacular show, as that great book by Guy Debord, The Society of the Spectacle, more or less laid the groundwork for the phenomena that I believe is behind the scenes in the conspiracy theory movement itself.
I think that there's only a minority of people who are really after what we should be after, is bringing criminal perpetrators to justice, rather than just seeing this as an overwhelmingly occult phenomenon, where if that's the case, then it's inevitable that our hidden masters will take control, and we are basically limited to a passive spectator position, which is exactly what they want us to believe, in my judgment.
Right.
I'm with you on the dopamine hit.
It's undeniable that we all seek dopamine hits.
You can't help it.
We've been programmed to do it by our culture, by our technology.
Where I think I might differ from you is that I think, ultimately, most people on my side of the argument, as it were, are only interested in one thing, and that is finding out The truth, wherever it takes them.
And if it seems to you as though they don't give a damn about bringing these, they're just in it for the lols, they're just in it for the rush of excitement of being contrary or whatever.
I don't think that's the case.
I think it's more that we look at the world And we look at places like Bohemian Grove.
We look at the World Economic Forum training program, Young Leaders program.
We look at your Supreme Court, for example.
We look at our justice system in the UK, which is no kind of justice system.
And we think all the institutions have been captured, yet you seem to be suggesting that our recourse is to use these corrupt systems to try and get justice.
I think we're beyond that stage, surely.
Well, these systems have always been corrupt.
You know, I mean, that's why you wrote the Magna Carta, and that's why the barons stood up against King John.
And, you know, the American founders said that eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
We're not going to have any peace in this world, this side of the grave.
It's the task of people like you and me to continually search Yes, I mean, I wouldn't want to be on trial in Great Britain because I have an overwhelming prejudice that the Masonic Old Boy Network would reopen the gallows and hang me on Tyburn Square, but nonetheless,
We've been given the tools by virtue of being alive and by having sentience and lucidity and being reasonably educated about these things to act on them, as our enemies do.
I mean, our enemies have encountered enormous setbacks across the span of history.
And yet they've always come back with this very strong sense of optimism about where they're going.
Why don't we have that when we are the champions, or at least we should be, of the pursuit of the truth?
So I'm very hopeful.
I believe in having hope because I think the cost of hope is the pursuit of the truth.
That's what gives us the hope.
Also here in North Idaho, you know, this is a redoubt for large families, people who really believe in the future.
I myself have a large family, most of my children.
My wife and I moved all over America looking for a real freedom sector where we could educate our children free of the public schools and the state propaganda.
And we found it here in North Idaho, although it's by no means a utopia and there we have our own issues here as well.
But that that may be part of my optimism and just, you know, People who are growing crops, the farmers, and people who are raising children, the parents.
You know, in the old days, the trip to the hoochie-coochie tent at the carnival to see a naked woman was something the farmers who were half-drunk after getting the crops in would do once a year.
And obsession with death maybe was something, I don't mean just the occurrence of death, but the obsession with it was something that was very rare.
Now in our digital society, dominated so much by the online world and even television to a certain extent as it goes to 4k and all these other mesmerizing aspects, we're disconnected from that life that grants us optimism.
I often tell people Who I counsel, who are very depressed and despondent and almost suicidal, turn off the TV and turn off the internet.
You go on a fast for food, you understand if you're obese, you should stop eating.
The same thing if you're psychologically distressed, disconnect from that.
Read the great books.
If you don't have a large family, help someone that does.
I know that can sound naive to certain people, but I have found from experience that the great network of families that we have here and the tremendous optimism that's here, not only in North Idaho, but the Pacific Northwest generally, is something that has inspired me and uplifted me, and it's very real.
There's a very good song that I'm going to send you a link to by somebody called Morrissey and the chorus goes, stop watching the news because the news is there to frighten you.
I think I think you'd enjoy it.
I totally agree with you.
I've opted out.
I don't watch the news.
I only read pretty much classic literature now, because I'm assuming that Anna Karenina and War and Peace are probably untainted by what you call the cryptocracy.
Don't kill my dreams there.
I want to ask you in a moment about, I was listening this morning to your fascinating tirade, with which I agree by the way, on against Winston Churchill.
But before we go there, I want to ask you, what do you mean by the cryptocracy?
Is it what a lot of us tinfoil hat people call the Illuminati?
Is that the same thing?
Walter Bauer actually was the popularizer of that in his book Operation Mind Control.
Wonderful man and a book I still recommend as a classic.
You know, the Illuminati, it seems, goes all the way back to Plethon in the 16th century, I'm sorry, 15th century in Florence, where he sort of just appeared almost out of nowhere from Greece Preaching Neoplatonism and also forming what historians, mainstream historians, have called an Illuminati of his own back in Greece.
But he's the one who had a tremendous influence over the Medici and the founding of the Platonic Academy, which makes it more formal than it actually was, an informal network based around, later on, Marsilio Ficino and Pico della Mirandola.
But in the beginning, moving this Platonic, Plato's ideology and then the Neoplatonism, which would come later, into the Church of Rome, and then from there you had the rise of Hermeticism, Kabbalah, and other things.
So that notion of Illuminati is very old.
But I don't see it as just being limited, that phrase cryptocracy.
Obviously, it's a movement of power based on keeping secrets.
And then paradoxically, with the revelation of the method, They have timed the release of some of their secrets to humanity.
Certainly not all the secrets are being revealed.
For example, the suborning of jurors and trials, the various assassinations and murders that are taking place that they do want concealed.
So it isn't an utter, naked, raw revelation.
But it is in key areas, such as this gigantic jest in Butler, Pennsylvania, basically telling us that they're in charge of the charade.
I think that that's a key to this whole thing.
So rather than limiting it to Freemasonry, the Illuminati, Wahhabist Saudi Arabian type of esoterica.
I mean, you know, the esoteric and there's a benevolent esoteric as well in the sense of people keeping secrets very briefly for reasons of security with their own organization.
But in general, no, I wouldn't limit it to the Illuminati.
I would say wherever there is power based on keeping secrets, and that's true both in the East and the West, but from that in the United States, it certainly has, I mean, I can't deny it, it's had in the 19th and 20th century, Freemasonry was the most powerful secret society in America.
It has since accomplished most of its goals, so it's a shadow of itself.
Typically, in America, if you go to a Freemasonic society and see who the Grand Master is, he might be the janitor or cleaning man, believe it or not, whereas in the early to mid-20th century, it would be a top surgeon or a top lawyer and a position of tremendous status.
But nonetheless, I mean, you can't look at the history of America without looking at Freemasonry.
Joseph Smith took on the secrets of Freemasonry, incorporated them into Mormonism, and was so charismatic that there was a great fear among the Masons that he would be able to take over the cryptocracy in America, which is one reason why that Masonic mob at the Nauvoo jail killed him.
They even warned ahead of time their fellow lodge members that he was going to give the Masonic hailing signal of distress, will no one help the widow's son, which would have normally kept the Masons from killing him, but since they were notified ahead of time, they went ahead and shot him anyway.
So this is threaded through American history as it is, I mean, Britain is the granddaddy of this, as it is in your own history as well.
We just have to be careful that we don't make too much of it or too little of it.
We follow the empirical trail and go from there, but we certainly shouldn't be intimidated by mainstream hysterians.
That's about right.
Historians who associate this With paranoia.
The paranoid style, as Hofstadter stigmatized it here in America, and that still remains in effect, as if there was no conspiracy.
You know, well, what was Hitler doing against the Jews?
Wasn't he conspiring to eliminate them?
I mean, that's history's biggest conspiracy.
Obviously there are conspiracies, But I think there are hidden forces where it's in their interest to deny certain aspects of the conspiracy.
But they feel, and they're gauging us, James, in terms of where we are in the bestialization of our human nature, that we have sunk so low in the devolution of humanity that they can tell us what they're doing to us, and whereas in past ages that would have ended in a revolt, a massive revolt, and perhaps a very woeful Karmic consequences for them.
Now they feel that there are no consequences and that they can tighten the stranglehold over us by showing us what they've done to us and then we do nothing in response except curl up into this inevitabilism, the idea that their script, which is artificial, there's no reason we should believe it, but that their script inevitably will take control of the future, which is exactly what they want to implant in our minds.
Yeah, I've heard about this karmic aspect to the revelation of the method that somehow by showing us what they are doing or what they're going to do and we don't react, they feel absorbed of any responsibility because we've effectively given them permission.
Is that how it works?
That's a good point.
I think that's an excellent point and psychologically that rings true.
The secrets to which these people are privy, are they secrets beyond, give them access to powers beyond the earthly realm?
I mean, do they give them access to supernatural powers?
Well, as a Christian, I believe that God is in charge.
As a reporter, I once interviewed the daughter of the head of the Church of Satan, and I asked her if Anton LaVey actually believed in Satan, and she said, no, he believed that there was a kind of force like electricity on the earth.
Which you could tap into, and one aspect of that was LeVay's famous jibe saying that Satan is the best friend the church ever had, meaning that the church used Satan as a boogeyman, as an almost co-equivalent with God.
And so if you believe that, if you believe that this Satan, which in Hebrew only means the accuser, that before the throne of God on Judgment Day, Satan will be there accusing us and Jesus is the advocate.
But if you believe that this accuser is a sort of co-God, then of course you're going to believe that the power that is being given to these people is something that would really work in their favor.
I actually believe that This satanic force is the enemy of humanity.
It will never be incarnated as a human being.
It never was incarnated as a human being.
It has tremendous envy and jealousy for those of us who God has given a human body to.
What a fabulous thing just to have a healthy body and be here on this earth.
I think that the satanic force despises that.
And I think in the end, It hates its own disciples.
So that if God is in charge, God is permitting these things to happen for a reason.
And ultimately, it's something like we saw in Shakespeare's play Macbeth, Act 1, Scene 7, where Macbeth is talking about the poison chalice.
which he has commended to his own lips, the bloody instructions that he has embraced, which have the capacity to return to plague the inventor.
He's teaching other people these instructions, and they come back on him, which is basically you reap what you sow, or the karmic consequences.
I do believe, however, that there are evil spirits that can influence people.
I I think that here in America, when I look at the statistics in terms of something that's largely hidden from public view, but not conspiratorially so, more a case of neglect.
Is the extent to which fathers in America are killing their wife and their children and then killing themselves.
And when people typically, reporters and investigators, talk to the neighbors and the friends, they say, he gave no sign of this.
They seem to be a happy family.
It's like incomprehensible to the people who were closest.
That's where I tend to see demonic possession being there.
But we also have to be very careful, cognizant of the witch hysteria in the past of people being falsely accused that when we delve into that area, Well, I mean, I'm with you.
in terms of not making false accusations and tracking it very carefully because the cryptocracy has also used witch hysteria against our own liberty, our own freedom, and our own safety.
But yes, I believe it's definitely a factor.
I do believe that evil is real and demonic possession is also real.
Well, I mean, I'm with you.
I don't see how you can understand what is going on in the world now, except in terms of the eternal supernatural struggle between good and evil.
And I'm a Christian too.
And as you know, in Corinthians, Paul describes the devil as the god of this world, that he is, by God's permission, this is his realm.
And I mean, he gives great rewards to those who follow his path.
As we look at all our politicians, for example, or all our rock stars, or our movie stars, who are all part of his But what do they lose in return for those favors?
of large companies.
They're all batting for the wrong team, aren't they?
But what do they lose in return for those favors?
I think that's the big question.
But I mean, even in terms of their everyday life, I know that when I've been sunk in sin and transgression, and I pull myself out of it by the grace of Jesus Christ, afterwards, as I've been renewed by Christ's grace, I see all of the opportunities as I've been renewed by Christ's grace, I see all of the opportunities I missed, all of the things that from being on the path that God created me for, and God doesn't create anyone for evil.
So these people that are pursuing that evil are actually missing out on the destiny God has given them.
So they may predominate materially in terms of carnality in the flesh, but they may be losing hugely, not only in the next world, but also in this one as well.
Some of the happiest people that I know are here in Idaho.
They don't have very much They're lower middle class and they have eight or ten children.
You know, and a lot of my liberal friends are, how can that lady do that?
You know, why is her husband imposing this on her?
And you come to find out, you talk to these women and their feminism is glorying in childbirth.
We have a feminism today That is a Thanatos cult of thinking that every woman that has a large family, that she could only want that because of her husband's oppressive demands.
Yet if you go to African parts of the third world, Nepal and places like that, you find that a woman who has had many children is regarded as lucky, as fortunate.
Other women want to touch her and come close to her.
She may even have an exalted position in society.
And I have found here that maybe women don't express it per se, but it seems to be a celebration and function of their ultimate femininity to have these children and to celebrate that family.
And as a result of that, I see serenity and happiness that I don't often see elsewhere, and they don't literally have very much on the material plane.
So what are the powerful Satanists really missing out on in the scale of things?
Only God knows that, and since we walk by faith and not by sight, Christians are aiming for that rather than this particular material success.
I would be more than happy to have a hundred times more audience for my website and my books than I have now, but God willing, I would put that under the prayer that I try to say every morning when I awaken, not my will be done, Lord Jesus, but your will be done.
So all those things have to be dedicated to the Lord.
There's nothing wrong with money.
It's the love of money that is the root of evil.
Money itself can be the greatest tool in the proper hands.
Yeah, no, you don't need to persuade me that the people who've sold their souls, metaphorically or literally, for sex, drugs and rock and roll, have made the wrong choice.
I mean, what I've learned about the real lives of rock stars and movie stars, as opposed to the kind of the image they project, I think it's horrible.
I mean, really horrible.
I don't know whether you're aware of this, that the large number of Rock stars who've sacrificed, essentially, their firstborn children.
I mean, not literally, but they've made part of the pack.
If you look at the number of rock stars who have lost children, for example, same goes with Hollywood actors.
And, of course, the number of them who die very young, often at the age of 27, for some reason.
So they get a very raw deal.
But so there's something going on there, though.
I mean, to make the decision where you are prepared to lose your first child in order to enjoy the trappings of set.
How does that work?
There must be some kind of supernatural element there, some ritual ritual thing that they're privy to.
Well, I mean, this is sort of news to me, what you're bringing up here, and I wouldn't, and I know you would concede this as well, that it's not necessarily a case that they sacrifice, you know, take some, for example, somebody like Eric Clapton.
Now, you're much closer to his stomping grounds, so to speak, and where he's living, and I've never been a big fan, but I've enjoyed some of his music, and certainly a fabulous guitar player and everything, but look at what he did during COVID.
You know, he took that shot, And then he had a very bad reaction to it.
And instead of staying mute, which is what the cryptocracy would have wanted him to do, he went full steam ahead and said, look, this is terrible.
Look at what it's done to me.
I can't even play the guitar.
And later on, and Clapton is huge in rock and roll, later on, I think it was a few weeks or maybe a month later, he said that Whoever he called in the music world was not returning his calls in terms of recordings or venues where he could play.
This is Eric Clapton!
And yet, you know, he went ahead and made that statement, and I thought, you know, there's some goodness in this guy.
I'm not judging him because I don't know enough about his life, but in terms of them losing a first issue, their first child, I don't know if that's actually due to what you're saying.
I imagine that, you know, in some cases it may be true.
In other cases, it's just what happens to people.
I know a very godly Christian man here in my area.
He lost his daughter, and then he lost his wife, and it was to natural causes, childhood illness, and his wife also had a disease.
And he's a good guy, even though we strongly disagree.
He's a Church of Rome theologian, and And I'm a much earlier type of early Christian Catholic.
But anyway, it could be true.
I don't know.
I think that we have to be careful.
I'm not jumping to conclusions on these things without clear evidence, because the people we're trying to bring out of the occult may use that and say, oh, what bollocks.
I remember once, we have a publishing company and we were offered a book where the person insisted that Keith Richards only started composing music after midnight.
And I said, bollocks to that!
We are not printing this book.
You know, that's prima facie nonsense.
But we have to be careful of if we take a strong statement like you're making, and we don't have statistical evidence for it, for example, we could actually re-entrench people who are captive to the occult, you know, in the way kids do when their dads, you know, like, you know, my parents in the late 60s, early 70s said if you smoked marijuana it was going to destroy your brain, and you know, we now know that marijuana is not the, uh,
It's a drug, which in my opinion is used for people who are too young to use Chinese medicine.
I don't want to digress too much here, but for someone who's always looking at their watch, can't relax, is uptight, some type of medicinal use of that would be helpful.
For a yin person, who can barely get out of their chair, is too sedentary and weak, it's a disaster.
But anyway, my parents didn't make that distinction.
They were just condemning it as if it was heroin or something like that.
So they discredited themselves by virtue of their hyperbole.
And I think we have to be careful in terms of the same thing in our outreach to try and bringing people out of the occult and into the grace of God.
Yeah, if this were the Joe Rogan podcast, of course, now you and I would be firing up a spliff to celebrate our free-spiritedness.
I can sense that you are still, Ophor, the hard-headed news reporter that I never was.
I mean, you don't like facts that you can't verify, you know, we didn't like it, like, like opinions.
And I, I totally get that I'm much more of a kind of, I'm much more of a big picture person, if, you know, I see how things work in one area, and I then can extrapolate from that, that it is also true in another area, and I almost don't need to know the details.
But On the kind of demonic thing, you mentioned John Dee earlier.
You know that John Dee was communing with spirits.
He clearly thought, and Elizabeth I used him to make predictions, to find auspicious times, for example, to Fight the Armada or whatever.
I mean, it's even thought that John D may have conjured up the storm that destroyed the Armada.
So these people, they don't do this just for the fun.
They do it because they genuinely believe it.
And I mean, given that these people happen to be the ones that run the world on the whole, there must be surely something more than just coincidence that they They follow these rituals.
They choose, I mean, they're obsessed with auspicious days, with numbers and things, aren't they?
Tell me a bit about the numbers, the numbers game that they play.
Well, I like, if you don't mind, I'd like to mention when you say auspicious days, because In my book, Secret Societies and Psychological Warfare, one of the things that I bring up is how did the Druids, for example, or the Nordic pagans, which so many people see as almost a utopia compared to what Churchianity, as opposed to true Christianity, has done to the world, but how were they converted to Christianity in the first place?
And whether you're talking about the Zuni Indians or the Hopi Indians, much admired here in the United States, or the Druids or the Vikings,
In order for them to embark on a journey in the dragon ship, the longship of the Vikings, in order for the druids to go on a long walk, in order for, especially with the Hopi, to do very much at all, go on a hunt or whatever, some type of priest had to come in and intercede, and a series of complex rituals had to be undertaken for the safety of that person doing that.
Along comes Christianity and says believe in Jesus.
Believe that he was the Son of God who died on the cross, defeated death, and as Jesus said himself, if you love me keep my commandments, learn what they are, and follow him.
And after that you can walk out the door a free being.
There's a Twilight Zone episode called Nick of Time in which people are Captain Kirk there is the future Captain Kirk of Star Trek, and his wife are captive to this little machine, this little piece of junk machine on the table in the dining area where they are in this little restaurant in Ohio.
And they can't leave because the cards that are coming out of the machine tell them that they'll be harmed if they do.
It's a wonderful episode because it shows people being freed from superstition.
It was written by Mr. Serling.
But anyhow, it's a wonderful episode because it shows people being freed from superstition.
And it's unfortunate where the Christian church itself later on degenerated into superstition.
That's not what Christianity is about.
So, Christianity granted that freedom to people, as you say, about auspicious days and times and rituals that had to be undertaken.
It's a form of bondage, and that's what Jesus is really about.
And you mentioned Paul, and reading Paul, especially Romans 7 and 8, You can see where he emphasizes our freedom.
He says, Jesus made you free.
Don't let anyone else put you under bondage.
And churchianity has done that to the followers of Jesus.
And this is where some of the worst enemies of Jesus are the heads of churchianity, as opposed to Christianity.
In terms of the numbers, you know, Gematria, the Kabbalah, it's a whole science that's been created there.
Some of it is just sheer superstition, and some of it is the technology which the Bible recognized in the Old Testament.
It says that pharaohs, soothsayers, and magicians had actual power.
They had actual power.
And Moses and Aaron had to fight that in a real battle.
Of course, God's people won.
What's that?
I remember that scene.
Yes, you're absolutely right that that that Aaron, they had their rods with the snakes that turned into snakes and things like that.
But Pharaoh's Pharaoh had a bunch of sorcerers that could do these tricks.
So that would suggest to me, if we believe in the Bible is true, which I do, that must mean that there is a counter.
There are counter powers on this earth to to God's powers that which presumably the baddies are harnessing.
Always to the glory of God, however.
When we run against the brick wall of why does God allow terrorism?
Why does he allow the deaths of the innocent?
Why is a carload of children on their way to a picnic wiped out in an explosion with a tanker truck?
And ultimately the answer, and those are tough questions and I don't mean to trivialize them, but ultimately for the Christian believer, all of these things are for the glory of God because God's intelligence, God's spirit is so infinitely above us that either we have faith in the fundamental aspect of the reality of we have woven, most of which we can't see.
I imagine 99% of God's reality we cannot see.
And I believe someday in eternity, all that will be pieced together for us.
Now, for those who don't have faith, I can't really help them.
And Paul mentions that as well.
That without that faith, then that's a whole separate thing entirely.
But for those who have faith, this is to the glory of God.
This power that God has permitted them to have will end up working good on earth.
That's my belief.
How and why, I do not know.
But I'm content to believe that.
And ultimately, it's for the glory of God.
All of creation is for the glory of God.
Creation announces the glory.
It's in, I believe, Psalms.
The heavens declare the glory of God.
And that's exactly... That's one of my favorites.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I study Psalms every day.
I would hesitate to be hogtied and hornswoggled to Kabbalism and all of those numbers.
And I know someone connected to one of the top Hollywood movie stars.
He takes her around with her.
I actually dated her sister, was my girlfriend for quite a while.
She's one of the top astrologers, probably, in the West.
If I told you the name of the movie star, you would recognize immediately, but I'm not privy to allowing that to be released.
But if people believe what I'm saying, and I have access to her, I could ask her to make a chart and all these other things.
She'd do it for free.
Other people pay large sums of money for this.
You know, the fault is not in our stars Horatio, it's in ourselves.
I want to be free to live my destiny, guided by intuition and by my faith in God.
And so far, God has given me a wonderful life on the basis of that, without having to rely on numbers, numerology, or astrology.
And I think that's the essence of the Christian message, that you can be free of that.
And that's the glory and the joy of where you and I are, I believe.
Yeah, no, I'm with you on that.
I mean, even people like St.
Augustine went through a period where he was flirting with astrologers and things.
And it would suggest to me that this stuff does actually work.
And I agree with your point about Christianity, not Churchianity, Christianity being an escape from all that.
I think where I might differ from you is I've been listening to several of your podcasts and you are obviously very, very frustrated by, for want of a better word, the kind of conspiracy community that they're not using their understanding of the cryptocracy and the signs and symbols that they use and the revelation of the method.
They're not using this information to hit back.
But let me take you to the example I mentioned earlier, and you're very good on this, Winston Churchill.
Now, like most Englishmen, I was brought up to believe, and for most of my life did believe, that Winston Churchill, possibly next to Shakespeare, was the greatest Englishman that ever lived, certainly, maybe one of the greatest people who ever lived.
And you and I know, That in fact, he was straight up evil.
He engaged in what I would describe as blood sacrifices.
I mean, the number of incidents in history where he threw away the lives of thousands of men, Gallipoli, Dieppe, Probably the whole Arnhem debacle.
He effectively encouraged the sinking of the Lusitania with the loss of over a thousand lives, civilian lives, because he wanted to drag America into the war.
This he he bombed Iraqis with with poison gas.
He burned villages.
He invented pretty much the concentration camp.
His area bombing of of Dresden and elsewhere was just diabolical, literally.
And yet most of the people in the world still think that he was one of the greatest people who ever lived.
And he defeated the most evil man that ever lived.
So we're told Hitler.
Now, if people are that deluded, how do we turn this this this tanker around?
It's not as easy as I think you're suggesting.
Well, just listening to you give the inventory of his crimes has kind of a profound impact on me, because when I see how much terrorism, we point our fingers at terrorists in the Middle East, And the better educated ones, and as you know, many have matriculated to Oxford and Cambridge and some of the great institutions of higher education in Great Britain.
So they're certainly aware of this economy of terror.
Which was exercised by Saint Winston Churchill, that Hitler was such an evil person, represented such an overwhelming wickedness and iniquity, that it was necessary to incinerate hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children and non-combatant men In every significant German city during World War II, and it's utterly justified.
And then the Americans did the same thing, and not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but also Tokyo in March, which incinerated 100,000 civilians in that city by Curtis LeMay, under orders from Franklin Roosevelt, who has something like saint status here in the United States.
And so we're failing to look at the fact that Muslims who believe that they're outgunned and overwhelmed in terms of, we control the skies over their lands, and that we are also a horrible evil, the great Satan, That therefore, the end justifies the means.
That countering the great Satan's control over Islamic territory can be done with terrorism of the innocent.
Now, how do we answer that if we make Roosevelt and Churchill our icons?
That's the great horror of this entire attitude towards these men.
And we should never, ever kill the innocent.
In order to pursue an end.
Never.
Once we've done that, we've opened Pandora's box.
And then there is no stopping that particular wave, that storm.
In terms of where is my source of optimism?
When there's so much evil in the world, I would just look to history.
At the times when there have been good periods in history, even the Pax Romana under Augustus, when Jesus was born under his reign.
What a fabulous thing!
The Son of God, the Messiah, was born in the peace of Rome.
And also, who was it that marched on the temple and destroyed the temple?
It was the abomination of desolation that Jesus said when you see it standing in the center of the temple, and that was the Roman Empire, the Roman army, virtually invincible at that time.
And I've had some Bible scholars, based on what is in the book of Joel, say that it was the greatest army that ever marched and ever will march.
Now, I mean great in the sense of its potency and not of its morality, but nonetheless, God used that in AD 70 to destroy the temple as Jesus Predicted.
And so, all of these things are so complex that I cannot abandon my faith in that God is saving us.
It doesn't mean that, you know, that I'm going to be preserved from every type of evil or harm.
That hasn't been the case.
My wife was chased down a street in upstate New York because of videos I was broadcasting on the local television station.
And a mob, including former friends of hers, who were so angry at my videos, chased her down the street.
She could have been seriously harmed if she hadn't found a car that was unlocked and jumped inside of it and locked the doors.
She's still with me 30 years later.
I'm very happy that that story had a happy ending.
That must have been very Very disturbing for you both.
I've given you, ripped off shamelessly from your podcast, I've given you the overview of Churchill, but I want to hear your insights into what it was that made him this way.
Because, for example, he was a 33rd degree Freemason, he was a Druid, he was clearly He was interested in dark forces.
Yeah, I wonder what happened with Churchill.
I mean, it seems like during the 1920s he had anti-communist sentiments, unless it was pure cynicism.
He seemed to be opposed to the Bolshevik Revolution.
He even warned about it in his famous essay, which has been regarded as anti-Semitic.
To the degree to which they try to paint the Bolsheviks as majority Judaic is absolutely wrong.
Certainly there was an inordinate number in the leadership at that time, but one should not single out Judaic people for that kind of onus of evil, because then we're opening them up to further persecution, which they've already suffered enough.
But nonetheless, he had a fundamental realization that what was happening in Moscow in the 1920s was a genocidal movement for control.
What Lenin represented was absolutely just pure evil.
And pure Machiavellian hatred of the working class itself.
When the working class would stage strikes against Lenin, they were dead.
You know, they were just exterminated.
He even used that word of exterminating them.
So, the young Churchill, I know he made mistakes in World War I, whether those were honest mistakes or reckless ones, I'll leave them to you and people... Well, Michael, can I interrupt you there?
Yeah, you yourself have argued against your own point, but you said that Churchill was a master of self-exculpation, that he would regularly order an operation and then sort of write letters protesting against the fruits of his order.
Well, I use that much later in his career in relation to Dresden, because one of the most ignominious things that that man did was to permit the destruction of Dresden.
And of course, you know, Dresden has become the icon, but every major German city was barbecued during World War II by U.S.
and British air forces.
But what he did was, after ordering that, after being complicit in it, he then issued a statement that it was a dreadful thing, and he made scapegoats out of the Air Force, and they never got a memorial like the other armed services did when they were fulfilling Churchill's orders.
So yes, He certainly was a cynical Machiavellian along satanic lines at that period, but I'm just wondering if early in his career he was just a bumbler rather than a diabolist.
But certainly as he went on, you talked about the gassing of the Iraqis.
He recommended that for any village in the Third World that crossed the British Empire.
By that time, he was beginning to head towards where he was in the 1930s.
I mean, he was in exile writing He was a wonderful writer, as you know, and writing articles, distilling, condensing classic books for American newspapers, and really fundamentally out of power.
But he made his deal with the cryptocracy of the time, and also The fact that Hitler really was a duplicitous figure who had made a fool of the peace faction inside of Great Britain that had been visiting there and thought that he actually was a peace candidate when he wasn't.
But for me, the central thing is this firelighter, this arsonist of the West.
I mean, the English people are fundamentally, or at least a large part of their genetics, is Saxon.
And here he goes to old Saxon Germany and sets it on fire in Dresden, Dresden being the capital of Saxony.
There's something there, there's a message, a profound message, which should hit these conservatives and these supposed people who want to revive Western civilization, that we got to such a point in our fratricide, and we're seeing another fratricide between Slavic peoples in Ukraine now, And Putin is not hardly blameless in that.
But in this satanic fratricide, we reach the point where the English Saxons were barbecuing the German Saxons.
And there's something fundamentally so insane and so iniquitous about that, that it gives us pause to stand and say, what happened to our civilization?
I believe the seeds of that were laid in World War I.
What was it fought for?
Why were all those beautiful young men being destroyed in the killing fields of France and Belgium at that time?
And World War II and Hitler would not have been possible without World War I. And we learned nothing, just as America learned nothing from Vietnam.
And then went on and did the same thing in Iraq and in Afghanistan, and now funding what's going on in Gaza and funding what's going on in Ukraine.
And it's a horrible thing, and Churchill is one of those war criminals.
Hitler's another one.
Roosevelt is another one.
Truman is another one.
And yes, I mean, undoubtedly, I would say that Churchill had made his deal with the devil, whether figuratively or literally, I don't know.
You seem to have more documentation on his engagement with the secret societies.
Yes, well, yes, I suppose.
When you start delving into this stuff, you you fairly quickly discover that most of the people who run the world are affiliated in one way or another to secret societies, and that these secret societies in turn have a kind of diabolical Luciferian game plan, because we're talking about people.
I mean, you mentioned the First World War.
What caused it?
I would say that, like the Second World War, it was a banker's war.
It was designed, you know, for a mixture of disaster capitalism to benefit the arms trade and to benefit those who could buy up property cheaply at the end.
But it's more than that, isn't it?
It's something It's a blood sacrifice, is what it is.
And I think the people who engage in that are not doing the Lord's work.
I mean, they certainly weren't the just wars that they were presented to us as at school.
But they always resort to Christianity.
You know, England became very Christian under government auspices during World War II because they felt they needed to motivate the soldiers.
Even Stalin trotted out the Russian Orthodox patriarchs and put them up On the reviewing stand in Moscow to bless the troops as they were marching on.
A hardcore atheist did the same thing, using religion in this particular way.
I certainly agree with you about usury in bankers wars, and that's the interesting thing.
I wrote a book because I'm concerned about the popularity of Hitler among young people in the United States, and even among some of the cognoscente of the non-cryptocratic wealthy people here in America.
And largely, the popularity of the NSDAP in Germany, the Nazi Party, was Gottfried Feder's, F-E-D-E-R, his manifesto against the enslavement abusery.
And he wanted to abolish the renting of money, not just at 5% or 8%, but at any degree of interest.
And the German people reacted that very well.
As you know, Martin Luther wasn't just opposed to the sale of indulgences.
Behind that was the Fugger Catholic Bank that was in charge of the exploitation of the people in that way and then putting that money that they shared with the Vatican out at interest and created a tremendous cartel of evil as a result of that.
And so here was Fetter putting forth this revolutionary idea, not just to reform usury or lower the interest rate, but to attack the principle of itself, which had been fundamental to Dante and many others in epochal people in Western civilization.
And Hitler went along with it until he could betray it.
Gregor Strasser was another one who hitched his start to Fetter's wagon of anti-usury.
What happens when Hitler comes to power in 1933?
He exiles Feder, internal exile, because Feder wasn't as charismatic as Strasser was.
He didn't have as much to worry about.
Feder was more a scholar, whereas Strasser had really won northern Germany, the Protestant part of Germany, even though Strasser was a Catholic.
He was a great organizer and he won that for the NSDAP.
So Hitler has him murdered in 1934 in the Night of the Long Knives, a guy who wasn't plotting against him and killing others.
I mean, Rome was the head of the stormtroopers, but he mixed in the innocent that he envied and hated for them being so much better people and having a better plan for Germany.
and he mixed them in with these more sinister elements, had them all murdered, There wasn't even a show trial, not even a show trial, which Stalin gave because he said, I am the law in Germany, although there had been an enabling law.
that he had gotten going from 1933 onward.
But my point is, is that Hitler was also part of the occult, and this can't be overlooked with the Thule Society, you know, beginning around 1919.
And also, with the usury aspect of this, is that Hitler then banned Judaic usurious banks in Germany, but permitted the so-called Aryan Thanks to practice usury.
This is how much of a traitor he was to the fundamental principle of his own party, which he had advanced.
And I think if people can understand this, his suicidal attack on the Soviet Union, the role of the occult in his life, and the betrayal of some of the finest and best elements within his own party, I don't see how Hitler can have a rehabilitation which, unfortunately, certain sinister forces are dedicated to at this time.
Yeah, usury, of course, is one of the things in the scriptures that really gets Jesus's goat.
I mean, one of the times where he gets really angry is when he upturns the tables and whips the moneylenders in the temple.
There are a couple of parables that are used against that.
So I've written a book called Usury in Christendom, The Mortal Sin That Was and Now Is Not.
It's available on Amazon in the Kindle for people in Great Britain who don't want to pay for the book to be sent to Britain.
You can get it on the Kindle.
And in there, I distinguish between the parables where it makes it seem as though he's encouraging usury and he is not.
I deconstruct that and Try to break that down.
But also we have Luke 6.
Luke 6 is absolutely a, it's the immovable object for the opposition to the renting of money.
And that's where he says, lend expecting nothing in return.
And that wasn't a parable.
That was a clear command and statement.
And also in the prayer that he gave us.
Our Father who art in heaven, forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.
There's all of this, as you're pointing out, James, which is in Christianity, which was understood by St.
Basil in the early church era, by Aquinas, by Dante, certainly in the Inferno, it's very clear.
And later on there have been other campaigners, but unfortunately it's been mixed in with this idea, well, moderate interest on money is okay.
That's not really usury.
And I always put to people, well, if that's the case, then prostitution, if the prostitute is having a discounted sale that week, And instead of charging $500, she's charging $50.
It's okay to use her services.
Usury is malum in se, as the great early popes and other theologians of the church said, evil in itself.
And we have to understand that, because if I want to have an investment, apart from Bitcoin and Ethereum and the blockchain technology, which is non-usurious, Then I'm going to invest in your company, James, or your neighbor's company.
I'm going to take a share in that.
I'm going to take a risk on its failing.
As far as giving a loan on a house, which so many young people need, how do we do that?
Well, again, it's interest-free.
But if the person then is able to buy that house and do well with it, they can voluntarily give an award to the person who lent that money, as long as there's clearly a stipulation that this is not part of a contract.
And that's how it was worked out.
Now, I know people will say, in the modern world, that's very impractical.
Well, let's rely on God's grace.
With God, all things are possible.
I don't have all the I's dotted and the T's crossed in this, but I know what God's law is.
And I know that we are oppressed by the money power.
And every century, and every decade, and every year, it's the money power that's behind this evil.
And the money power draws its power from interest on loans.
And if we can crush that, we're beginning to reinstitute what Jesus wanted for us, which is freedom here.
James, you're quite an interviewer, because I was going to do 30 minutes, and I'm at 73.
So you've really got me here.
I want to thank you very much for this opportunity.
And if I can give my website to your audience, it's revisionisthistory.org.
I have a column on Substack, and you can find it by typing into your browser, Substack, Michael Hoffman's Revelation of the Method.
And James was referencing the podcast, which you can get in a number of podcasts.
I don't know what James used, but it's called Michael Hoffman's Revisionist History.
And it originates from Transistor, but you can find it on Spotify and other sources like that.
Thank you for this opportunity, James, and also for an informed conversation, which I don't always enjoy with some interviewers.
Thank you.
I'm sorry to have tricked you, Michael, into extending your time.
Thanks very much for being on the podcast.
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please remember I appreciate your support on Locals, on Substack.
You can buy me a coffee or support my sponsors who are great.
