Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

July 21, 2024 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:55:58

Psalm 133: Bishop Williamson

Richard Nelson Williamson is a British independent Traditionalist Catholic bishop.↓ ↓ ↓ Buy James a Coffee at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jamesdelingpole The official website of James Delingpole: https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk x

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	Psalm 133, and this is the Myles Coverdale translation for the Book of Common Prayer.
	Behold, how good and joyful a thing it is, brethren, to dwell together in unity.
	It is like the precious ointment upon the head that ran down unto the beard, even unto Aaron's beard, and went down to the skirts of his clothing.
	Like as the dew of Hermon, which fell upon the hill of Zion, for there the Lord promised his blessing and life for evermore.
	Welcome to the Psalms with me, James Denningpole.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about my special Psalms guest, but I really am excited.
	He's here by massive popular request, Bishop Williamson.
	Now, we've established before we started, Bishop Williamson, that the convention is to call you My Lord in England.
	Tell me a bit about your status in the Catholic Church.
	I'm an outcast, an exile, an untouchable.
	You name it.
	I mean, I'm assuming your position is that you haven't moved away from the Church.
	The Church has moved away from you.
	That's about right.
	That's my version.
	I mean, when you do your services and things, Are the people who attend your services sort of anathematized by the mainstream church?
	I mean, how does it work?
	Are they in trouble?
	They're certainly not approved of officially.
	Most ordinary day-to-day Catholics will still regard with a degree of suspicion followers of Archbishop Lefebvre.
	Now he's very popular with a small minority of Catholics.
	More and more are actually understanding that he was right all along.
	More and more today are understanding that he was right all along, but still He's not got a large following.
	There's much more quality than there is quantity, let's just say.
	Right, right.
	Well, I've got lots of Catholics among my followers.
	Yes.
	And the ones that tend to follow me tend to be pretty based, which is probably not a term you've come across.
	The ones that follow you tend to be?
	Based.
	B-A-S-E-D.
	Okay.
	Meaning that they know what they think, they know why they think it.
	Yes.
	That's very well expressed.
	I was going to try and define it for you, but you've done the job for me.
	Exactly so.
	And a lot of them attend Latin masses and are very disappointed with the current leadership of the Catholic.
	Yes.
	Which probably doesn't surprise you!
	Anyway, I just wanted to... Could you possibly explain to non-Catholics what happened to the Catholic Church?
	When did it all go wrong?
	For example, I've seen pictures of the auditorium next door to the Vatican, which is in the shape of a snake's head.
	Correct.
	I'm thinking that's not very Christian.
	It seems to be evidence of infiltration in the Catholic Church by the forces of darkness.
	Correct.
	When did it all go wrong?
	A lot of today's troubles in church and world go back to the beginning of Protestantism, go back to Martin Luther.
	The ancestry is not too difficult to trace, because with him it was the beginning of the great me, the great ego, man rising up against God, Rising up against his Catholic Church.
	It was too far at that moment to at the time in 1517 when Luther nailed his thesis to the door of the Church of Wittenberg.
	I think that's the famous act by which he really began his revolt.
	But it was a great revolt against the Church.
	Luther pretended that he was still in favor of God and still in favor of Jesus Christ, but he made it very clear that he didn't want anything to do with the Church.
	He pretended to be reforming the Church.
	Catholics will claim he was deforming the Church.
	They will claim that the so-called Reformation was better called a deformation.
	Because, implicitly, he was rising up against both Jesus Christ and against God.
	But in his own mind and in his words, he was rising up against the Church.
	But it was like undoing the top stitch of a seam.
	If you undo that top stitch and you don't do anything about stitching it up again, with wear and tear, every stitch in the seam will finally come undone.
	And that's what happened.
	The process is often briefly described as 1517, Luther broke with the Catholic Church.
	It came then to be called the Catholic Church to distinguish it from Protestants, and Protestants were named by the fact that they were protesting, and the protest went on and on.
	Next, in 1717, was the founding in London, England, of Freemasonry, a secret society, which the secret is That it is absolutely directed against the Catholic Church, to undo the Catholic Church.
	And that was obviously directly from the ancestry of Luther, 1717.
	And Freemasonry worked, Freemasonry was the great author of liberalism, which was named by liberty.
	Liberalism was the beginning of the worship of liberty.
	Let liberty ring throughout the land.
	And as the British, following Luther, broke away from the Catholic Church, so the United States broke away from England, which was the punishment fitting the crime.
	And then in 1717, Masonry generated two great liberal revolutions.
	Firstly, the American Revolution of 1776, and then the French Revolution, which was like a dress rehearsal for the French Revolution of 1789.
	That was a great triumph of liberalism, and liberalism broke away from Jesus Christ.
	Freemasonry put in the place of Jesus Christ, put the great architect, So Freemasonry pretended to be still in favor of God, but it replaced, in fact, just as Luther was implicitly against not only against the Celtic Church, but also implicitly against Jesus Christ and against God.
	So Freemasonry was all for breaking away from Jesus Christ, although it pretended to replace him with a great architect.
	It was also breaking away from God.
	So liberalism was the great movement It's descending directly from Protestantism.
	And then the third stage, that was 1717, the third stage is placed as 1917, the Russian Revolution.
	which, the ancestor of which was the French Revolution, and which launched Communism.
	And so as Protestantism led to Liberalism, Liberalism made the bed for Communism, and Communism was the Russian Revolution, which is clearly, Communism rejects absolutely both the Catholic Church and Jesus Christ and God.
	It's outright atheism.
	And that was the Russian Revolution.
	And since then, we're not yet at 2117.
	We may never reach 2117.
	The world may well come to an end before 2117.
	2117.
	The world may well come to an end before 2117.
	But what we've got today is a step on, a step further, which is a revolution against reality.
	And what we've got is Disneyland all over the world, La La Land.
	People are going crazy, left, right, and center, because they are unhooking their minds from reality, let alone from God, Jesus Christ, the church, or the church, Jesus Christ, God.
	Now it's from any sense of reality.
	It's the ultimate liberty.
	I liberate myself from objective reality.
	I don't recognize any objective reality.
	The communists still had a sharp sense of reality.
	They were murderous.
	They are absolutely murderous.
	Communism is a wicked And finally, the punishment for that is that most people today are living in the denial of reality, in the affirmation of liberation from all reality, from all truth.
	Every man is his own pope.
	What realities is what he still holds to exist, what he still believes in.
	But it all goes back basically to Luther.
	Right.
	I like the fact that you've got the mnemonic of 15, 17, 17, 17, and 19, 17.
	17, 17, 17 and 1917.
	I wonder whether there's any kind of gematria significance to 17.
	Is it good?
	I don't know.
	St.
	Augustine, the great St.
	Augustine, the great Dr. St.
	Augustine, who was no fool, took seriously mathematical figures.
	Various great minds have been also mathematical.
	But it may be, of course, just an accident.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So an accident of history.
	It's very, as you say, it's a useful mnemonic to pay to get to hold to watch the degradation and corruption of the human mind and the human race.
	And the ultimate punishment for this ultimate liberty is ultimate madness.
	And whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad, is an old saying.
	And that's what's happened today.
	We're on the very brink of the Third World War.
	Which is going to be tremendous.
	It's going to be much less long than the first two world wars.
	It may be only a matter of a few months because of the weapons.
	It's going to end in nuclear war and the result is going to be an absolute devastation.
	It will all be under the control of God.
	God will not allow the human race to destroy itself.
	He could do.
	But he won't, immediately.
	The plan of God is surely that the Third World War will be a great chastisement, but it may start humanly.
	The same Third World War may finish divinely, that is to say,
	The nuclear war will not be enough to punish the state of mankind as it is today, and therefore the Third World War may well lead to and culminate in what many Catholic prophecies have seen down the centuries, namely a punishment of three days of darkness, in which a large part of humanity will be eliminated, die,
	But out of it will come a brief golden age, a last final triumph of the Catholic Church.
	But sin will come back.
	The higher they are, the harder they will fall.
	The state of mankind after the chastisement, finishing perhaps, directly connected perhaps with the Third World War.
	There's a lot of nuts and bolts of course, details which one doesn't know, and which God doesn't reveal.
	But down the ages in the Catholic Church, There have been various apparitions, appearances of Our Lady, the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, who has told us of detail, given details of the punishment of given details of the punishment of the state of man today.
	And Almighty God will reshuffle the entire pack, A large part of humanity will die.
	I don't know what proportion, but a large part of humanity will die.
	And that will make it a golden age.
	One prophecy says that England, China, and Russia will all three convert, and that's three tough nuts to crack.
	And then there will be this, Our Lady spoke in 1846 to two little children in the mountains of Eastern France, in the Alps of Eastern France, at La Salette.
	And it was a single apparition.
	It wasn't a series of apparitions, as it has often been elsewhere.
	And she said that there will be a golden age, but she said 25 years of good harvests will make men forget that sin was the problem, and therefore sin will come back.
	And as sin comes back, So we move on to the Seventh Age of the Church, which will be the reign of the Antichrist.
	The reign of the Antichrist, according to Scripture, will last three and a half years.
	It will be the heaviest persecution ever of the Catholic Church, just as the Sixth Age will be the greatest triumph of the Catholic Church, so the Seventh Age will be the heaviest persecution of the Church.
	And it will generate Some of the greatest saints in all the history of the church.
	And then at the given moment, the Antichrist will simply be blown away by the breath of God.
	And soon after that, the end of the world and the general judgment, and then a new earth and a new heavens and a new earth, a mysterious transformation of this earth, and the history of mankind will be over.
	And all of those souls That almighty God foresaw would make use of their lives and make use of their free will to choose Him and to die in His grace.
	All of those souls will be safe and happy forever in bliss in heaven while all of the goats, as the scripture speaks of them, our Lord speaks of them, all of the goats who misuse their free will in order to turn against God will be forever in the fires of hell.
	Well, thank you for that cheering news, in the end.
	By the way, I didn't want to interrupt you, but you're looking down when you speak.
	Is that your preferred mode?
	Otherwise, if you want to be seen, yeah, look at me when you talk, if you prefer.
	Yes, I understand.
	Okay, yes.
	I'm sure you think you're a handsome view.
	It's not that.
	I'm thinking about my viewers.
	Yeah, my poor viewers are stuck with me.
	I agree.
	But maybe you can you can cheer them up now.
	I suppose we ought to focus on, we may talk about two Psalms, we may just talk about one depending on where we go, but I thought we'd start with Psalm 133, which I think in your book is Psalm 132, is that right?
	Yes, that's correct.
	Tell me about the reason for the difference in numbering.
	It's very likely, I honestly don't know, but it's very likely, whenever you start a religion, which is what Luther did, he started a new religion, or a new explosion of religions, an explosion of a huge new, but they can all be bracketed lumped together, so to speak, under the title Protestantism.
	Whenever you launch a new religion, you've got to distinguish yourself from the previous religion.
	You've got to show that you're different.
	You've got to show that you're standing for something different.
	You're taking a stand.
	And that stand has got to have characteristics.
	So the Russian Revolution is marked, for instance, by a simplification of the Russian alphabet.
	The American Revolution was signified by a different spelling of some English words.
	And I think that was it.
	Mainly a difference.
	of language.
	So language is pretty basic.
	That has to be different somehow under a new regime, under a new... which is marking itself off from the previous setup.
	I didn't know that about the American Revolution.
	So you're saying the reason the Americans can't spell colour is it was a political choice?
	The religion... I beg your pardon?
	The reason for... They can't spell colour?
	Yes.
	C-O-L-O-R instead of O-U-R.
	Yeah.
	Americans would claim that that's the correct spelling.
	Right.
	If you're saying it isn't.
	Well, of course.
	Yes, I think, yes, it's a political, it's a political, this is a, America is no longer like England.
	And we show that with the different spelling of words, yes.
	Right, I see.
	Okay, well that sort of clears up the differences in the psalms, the psalm numbering.
	It's easily most of the psalms because it starts with Psalm 9 and it finishes, I think, with Psalm 142 around there.
	So all the bulk of psalms in between 9 and 142, and there are only 150 of them altogether, the bulk of psalms is Differently numbered, which leads to confusion, but the Catholic Church has always stuck to the same numbering.
	No it hasn't.
	Well, in recent issues of the Bible, in updated modern issues of the Bible, like the Jerusalem Bible, I think the numbering is the Protestant numbering.
	I see.
	And which version of the Bible do you prefer?
	Is it the Reims-Douai Bible or the Reims-Douai Bible?
	It's reliable.
	It's very reliable.
	Because the English is a very direct translation of the Latin Vulgate.
	It's called the Vulgate.
	And the Latin Vulgate was endorsed, or backed, supported, approved of, by the Council of Trent, which took place in the middle of the 1500s, and which was the Catholic Church's counterattack against Protestantism.
	It was a supreme defense of the real Catholicism against Luther and all the whole movement of Protestantism.
	So that, for Catholics, the Council of Trent, it was a great work of true reformation.
	Because there was, the Church did need reforming.
	The Church always needed, because of original sin, because of the constant downward tendency of human nature, the Catholic Church had to set up, say, where Protestantism was going wrong.
	And the Council of Trent was a great act of self-correction by the Catholic Church, and that's when they defended themselves against Protestantism.
	And that version of Catholicism, or that version of the religion of our Divine Lord, Continued essentially unchanged from before the Protestant Reformation, and it continued essentially unchanged the bulk of the church until the Vatican II, which was the final triumph of Protestantism, if you like, over Catholicism.
	Because the Protestants and the Masons, the Masons especially, infiltrated the Catholic church.
	And to this day, there are still a number of infiltrators high up in the Catholic church and who are controlling what we might call the official church.
	And what I belong to is that movement set up by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1970, around 1970, to defend the true Catholic church against the infiltrated to defend the true Catholic church against the infiltrated Freemasonic substitute church, which is essentially a Protestant.
	It's weird.
	In my days when I was a mainstream media journalist, happily long past, I had this Catholic friend who used to write about Catholic matters, you know, schisms in the church and the Latin mass and the Tridentine mass and stuff.
	And I used to think this was all kind of obscure inside baseball type stuff of no interest to the generality of human, of normal people.
	And now I find myself utterly gripped by all these All these things.
	Anything to do with Christianity, which I think is the greatest of all the rabbit holes.
	And I'm fascinated.
	But, I mean, you blame Protestant infiltration.
	I mean, I'd say it's more Satanic or Luciferian infiltration, ultimately.
	It's Satan who launched Freemasonry.
	Yeah.
	It's Satan who launched all heresies.
	All the breakaways from the Catholic Church, all the splits of the Catholic Church, to break away and take many souls with them.
	But Luther was a past master.
	He was one of the greatest heretics, and there was hardly anything Catholic that he left standing.
	So he was, in your view, definitely a baddie.
	Where are you on the Jesuits?
	The Jesuits were the shock troops of the defense of the Church in their day.
	But when somebody or some movement is very successful in defending the true Church and the true people of God, Satan attacks.
	And Satan closes in, and Satan corrupts, he infiltrates, he corrupts, he destroys.
	He's the great destroyer.
	He's the great negative force in history.
	The whole history of the world is the struggle of good against evil, of the great instrument of good is of course our Divine Lord Himself.
	When he himself stepped into history by taking a human nature in addition to his divine nature in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
	The great head of the evil is Satan, the leader of the fallen angels.
	He is a real force in history.
	He's invisible, but you see him on all the covers, many covers, The disks used to be 12 inches wide and they used to have bright colored cardboard colors.
	And Satan used to appear on, or fallen angels, the servants of his, used to appear on many of the covers of these satanic rock songs.
	Satan is real.
	His many following, angels following him are real.
	They're all invisible.
	But they can take visible form, if God allows, and they have been causing trouble to the Church down all its history.
	There have been heretics and heretical movements in all centuries.
	For instance, Islam is a huge breakaway from the Catholic Church.
	The Jews resisted our divine Lord Jesus Christ from the very beginning.
	Well, they crucified him from the start, and they've been enemies of the Catholic Church ever since.
	So, modern Judaism, which you might call Talmudism, for Talmud is their substitute scripture for the Old Testament.
	Talmudism, Islam, Freemasonry, Communism, all of these are movements set up by Satan Often, unfortunately, through Jews, because they… How are the mighty fallen?
	The higher they are, the harder they fall.
	The Jews, for 2,000 years, were the privileged instruments from the chosen race of our Lord Jesus Christ to prepare for the Incarnation.
	The whole of the Old Testament was preparing for the Incarnation.
	But Satan got in there, and Annas and Caiaphas, thanks to Judas Iscariot, The Fallen Apostle.
	was the ringleader of Annas and Caiaphas, so to speak.
	Without Judas Iscariot, we couldn't have had Annas and Caiaphas as great enemies of God.
	But in other words, a fallen Catholic is worse than a Jew.
	If you think of a Jew as one of the worst enemies of our Lord Jesus Christ, a fallen Catholic is worse.
	Because he's being given—the Jew has very unlikely been offered by God the graces that Catholics have been given.
	Catholics have accepted those graces.
	Judas accepted he wanted to be an apostle of our Lord.
	He was finally accepted by our Lord to be an apostle, and he betrayed our Lord.
	The higher they are, the harder they fall.
	When an apostle falls, you've got the worst of all.
	When the high leaders of the Catholic Church fall, you've got the worst enemies of our Lord.
	Yeah, yeah.
	We can come back to some of this stuff in a bit.
	I just wanted to briefly put Bring our focus back to, well, we haven't got there yet, to the Psalm, which I'd picked.
	And actually, I picked it with good reason, because it's relevant to the discussion that we've had so far.
	So, Psalm 133 or Psalm 132 in your book begins, Behold, how good and joyful it is, brethren, how good and joyful a thing it is, brethren, to dwell together in unity.
	Which is something that's rather missing, I would say, from Christianity and has been for some considerable time.
	What's your take on Christians who aren't Catholics?
	Do you think of them as sort of lost or potential recruits for Catholicism once they see the light?
	What's your take on that?
	Well, former Catholics, especially Catholics who fall away from the church, servants of our Lord who decide to stop being with our Lord or serving servants of our Lord who decide to stop being with our Lord or serving our Lord can be, for reasons given, some They choose, they're given free will by God.
	We are all of us given free will by Almighty God.
	It's part of our spiritual human nature.
	Where there is no None of the animals are capable of going to heaven because none of them have free will, none of them have spirituality.
	Man is the unique animal because of his reason, his faculty of reason, which goes with free will, which goes with spirituality.
	Man is the only animal that is free, reasonable, rational, free, and spiritual, as well as being material.
	Man is a rational animal.
	He shares animality with all the other brute animals, but he's the only animal that's also reasonable.
	He's the only spiritual animal.
	He's material with his animality, he's spiritual with his faculty of reason and free will, which no computer has and no computer can have.
	When a man uses his free will, it's God who gives us free will, because he hopes that everyone to whom he gives free will will make good use of it so as to deserve to go to heaven when he dies.
	Satan wants all souls in hell, as many souls as he possibly can have in hell.
	It hurts him every time he brings a soul to hell.
	His damnation is worse, or he feels it worse.
	But nevertheless, he has such a hate for God and a hate for human beings.
	He can't hurt God because God is unhurtable.
	God is unchangeable, untouchable in himself.
	But God can be got at in his creatures, especially in his noblest of creatures, which is in men.
	And therefore Satan is constantly working to get spiritual beings to damnation.
	When every angel was created, it was faced with an immediate choice.
	And since it didn't have a body, that choice was complete and immediate from the very moment it was made, which is why, when a third of the angels followed Lucifer against God, they were flung out of heaven immediately.
	The good forces, under the leadership of Saint Michael, Archangel.
	And ever since then Satan has been working to infiltrate the forces of good and to turn them away from God and to get them into his hell where they will be subjects of his satanic kingdom.
	Yes.
	So the life is A constant attempt of Satan to mislead souls to hell.
	A constant attempt of our Lord, especially through his Catholic Church, to lead souls safely to heaven.
	But I look, I mean, I used to be a sort of a fair weather Christian, as it were, you know, I mean, sort of brought up in the Church of England, got confirmed, went to, had to go seven days a week when I was at school, but lapsed rather thereafter, and then sort of rediscovered my faith.
	I think a lot of people have had this experience of late.
	And some of us look around at our fellow church members and see a bunch of gullible idiots who bought into the whole vaccine nonsense, which is partly not their fault because they were brainwashed, but who nevertheless behaved badly, and it behaved in an unchristian way.
	I mean, I can't imagine Christ in the time of COVID, even if the pandemic had been real, would have gone around shunning people and keeping a, what is it, within a six foot or Two meters space away from everybody else and pointing at people who weren't wearing masks and insisting that communion could not be taken because of the health and safety risk and so on.
	I think you're with me on this, that many members of the Church did not behave well during Covid and many of them are not very good at being Christians.
	And then they're asking why are so many Christians un-Christian?
	Yes.
	Is that it?
	Yeah.
	Human nature is weak.
	You can pour good wine into a dirty bottle and the dirty bottle will wreck the wine.
	So you pour a good religion Coming straight from God himself, instituted by God himself, into fallen human nature.
	And the fallen human nature is liable to its tending towards evil all the time.
	That's another mystery, great mystery.
	How can God have allowed the fall of Adam and Eve?
	Well, he foresaw his own incarnation, but Souls that accept Christ and follow Christ are still capable, but they can't lose their free will as long as they're human beings.
	And that free will is always vulnerable to the original sin, which is also in our human nature, and therefore the large number of souls turn away from God.
	St.
	Thomas Aquinas explains very briefly by saying the large number of human souls follow sense pleasures or sense good.
	Good things that appeal to the senses, which is often against the will of God because God has his purpose in the purpose of the sense mechanism of reproduction, let's say, in human beings.
	It's not a mechanism because human beings are not a machine.
	But nevertheless, it is a part of the workings of human nature.
	And many human beings are misled by their senses to turn away from the much higher goods of the Spirit.
	And what exactly is the deal with people who sort of think of themselves as Christians, maybe ones that, okay, give an example of Catholics who go to church every Sunday, but maybe they don't go to the Latin Mass and they kind of think the Pope's all right, and they believed in Covid and they shunned their neighbours during Covid.
	Are these kind of second-rate Christians, are they still going to go to heaven?
	Heaven is not automatic.
	You have to die in the state of grace.
	Almighty God will give to souls as much help as he can, or as much help as they deserve, somewhere in between.
	In fact, Almighty God is very generous with every single one of us, but there are many of us that persevere in sin, that go on preferring, let's say, Thomas Aquinas' expression, explanation, go on preferring the sense goods, the getting habits which they can hardly get out of.
	There's a Spanish proverb, sin begins like a cobweb, but it ends like a chain.
	So people get into habits which they cannot or do not want to get out of, and then they die in that state, in a state of enmity with God, and then they can't go to heaven.
	It's their own choice.
	Every single soul in hell chose to fall into hell, and in fact, if our Lord was to visit hell today, which he could do, He could introduce himself into hell.
	The damned souls would blaspheme and they wouldn't convert.
	It's too late for them to convert.
	They could convert and God appealed to them to convert until the very last moment of their lives, but since they chose at death to hate God and refuse God and spurn God, Then their wills are set.
	Once they fall into hell, a poor man's soul is set in evil.
	And if our Lord visits him in hell and offers him salvation in hell, he will turn it away.
	He will refuse it.
	It's the freedom of free will which is the problem, I think, in your mind.
	People are free, but at death, it's settled one way or the other for eternity.
	Go on.
	Well, I was going to say, I'm feeling slightly guilty here because I'm not sticking, I'm not being rigorous enough in keeping to the psalm.
	But we'll come back to it in a moment because now I've got you here.
	It seems a waste not to find out, you know, exactly what the score is.
	But let me give you an example.
	So, one of the things I've learned about the world is that there are people in it who do truly wicked things.
	In fact, I'd say that the beast system rewards you according to how wicked you are.
	And I think most people in positions of political power, most people who rise to the top of business, or most fields, including the church actually, are engaged in satanic activity.
	And I don't just mean listening to heavy metal albums.
	I mean actually torturing children, sacrificing to Satan, taking adrenochrome, stuff like this.
	Now they're obviously gonna burn in hell.
	That's obvious.
	You believe in Satanism.
	You believe that there's such a thing as satanic behavior of human beings.
	You believe that, you know, From experience that, and you've not turned away from it in some silly softness.
	You know that satanic behavior exists in some human beings are absolute instruments of Satan.
	You're quite right.
	And you've got a great advantage to that.
	It's a good starting point.
	So because a lot of people, a lot of people are too soft to believe in Satanism or to believe that human beings can be satanic.
	Oh, that's the devil is undoubtedly real and I think a lot of people are now aware of it.
	They say the devil's greatest trick was persuading us.
	He didn't exist.
	And of course that is that is true.
	That's that's how he works.
	Right.
	I don't I know that That he is the God of this world, by God's permission.
	Yes.
	And that he has no power but the power that we choose to give him.
	Correct.
	What I'm not so sure about is, this is a lovely distraction, I do like a digression, but since we're talking about Satan, I'm interested to hear what you know about him.
	Does he ever take physical form?
	Yes.
	At least physically visible.
	He can take... I mean, that's how he appeared to our Lord himself when he tempted him in the desert.
	Yes.
	So, he's certainly visible.
	Is he tangible?
	I wouldn't be so sure of that, but again, I think our Lord could allow him to take solid corporeal form if he applied for it, so to speak.
	I'm not sure of that.
	But certainly he's visible.
	He makes himself visible and audible, that's for sure.
	Logically then he would make himself, he could make himself also tangible or touchable.
	So... When he tempted Christ in the desert, he presumably, he's not described, but presumably he took, well we're not told what form he took, are we?
	No.
	But yes, he will have taken visible form.
	Yeah.
	I'm pretty sure of that.
	The thing that really interests me about that particular passage, well, I mean, lots of things interest me about it, but we learn from that, that the devil knows his scripture, because he cites Psalm 91, or probably Psalm 90 in your book, where he says that, you know, jump off that high place and the angels will catch you.
	Yes.
	So he's a learned fellow, is Satan?
	Oh, he's smart.
	He is smart.
	And angelic intelligence is a very high intelligence.
	Which is why St.
	Thomas Aquinas is called the angelic doctor.
	Because of his superb intelligence.
	But in his case it was entirely subordinate in love of God and service of God.
	Which is why St.
	Thomas Aquinas is a very high saint in heaven.
	But not all supreme intelligences belong to God or serve God.
	On the contrary, many attempted to serve the devil.
	The devil has the world in his service, and he has all the money.
	He controls all the money.
	He's the prince of this world.
	He controls the money.
	He controls the power.
	And he gives power to whom he will.
	His third temptation was to give to our Lord all political power over the whole world, and our Lord turned it down.
	And finally, get thee behind me, Satan.
	And our Lord refused all three temptations.
	But the temptations are still there, and Satan uses one or the other of them to make many, many souls fall, and fall many permanently into his group.
	I'm a great mystery.
	Is he the same as Lucifer?
	Yes.
	But, you know, people can use words and misuse words and use names and misuse names how they like.
	So some people will say that Lucifer is the god of good.
	That's really twisting things around.
	Lucifer normally is an alternative name for Satan, yes.
	Satan means adversary, Lucifer means bearer of light in Latin.
	Yeah.
	I seem to remember learning from somebody that Lucifer was also a very skilled musician.
	Which is why rock musicians are susceptible to him, that he gives them the gift of being able to play the guitars or whatever, whether they're Robert Johnson or Jimmy Page.
	And the music is very seductive to a lot of people.
	Yes.
	Music is a deep language of the soul.
	It expresses things in the human soul which nothing else expresses.
	Music is a gift of God which can be used to for good or for evil.
	The church uses it for Gregorian chant, which is the sublimest form of human music, or music sensible to humans.
	It comes from God.
	The devil misuses music with rock and all kinds of other seductive kinds of music.
	There was a modes of music that Plato would abandon his Republic because Plato was intelligent enough to realize that Music is a very powerful influence over the soul, and a good dictator, so to speak, who's not a good liberal and who doesn't just allow any kind of music anyhow, anywhere, a good dictator will, if he can, dictate that the music in this state will not be evil, and evil forms of music will be banned.
	And that's intelligent.
	It's against liberty to ban something like music.
	The liberal can't stand the idea.
	But the truth is that liberal governors who allow just anything in any domain are foolish because they're wide open to Satan misusing all kinds of things under his government.
	Everything you say makes me want to ask all sorts of questions and spin off even greater digressions.
	But just a quick digression before we return back to my original question, which is, how did Gregorian chant become the perfect expression of divine music?
	perfect expression of divine music?
	I mean, where did it come from?
	Gregorian names Gregory the Great.
	It's St.
	Gregory the Great in about the 600s, around there, who developed the chant in the church.
	St.
	Pius X was also a great follower or careful observer of music and wanted certain kinds of music and didn't want operatic music or music that was too human, too centered on man.
	in the Catholic Church under his care.
	The Gregorian chant, I'm not an expert, I don't know the whole story, I don't know enough about it, but I think it developed from the Jewish chants in the Old Testament.
	There was certainly music in the Old Testament, a number of instruments are named in the Psalms, as you must know, And the Jews of that time, let's call them the Israelites, who were servants of God, developed religious music under the Old Testament.
	And I'm sure that that music had a considerable influence on the development of Gregorian chant.
	Music develops all the time, It changes all the time.
	It can change for the better, it can change for the worse.
	Again, that depends upon human free will, what use a man makes of music, what kind of music he chooses to listen to, because he wants to influence his soul for the good, or he wants to influence his soul for the bad.
	And music evolves as man evolves from one age to the next.
	And it can be an upward evolution, which it will have been in the early centuries of the Church, because as the Church rose up to the Middle Ages, before it fell down from the Middle Ages, so the music was evolving for the better at that time, and it was coming closer and closer to the music that there must be in heaven.
	Okay, I suppose what I'm really asking is quite a complicated question, which is, we're all used to living in a world where monks sing in Gregorian chant, and we think it's rather... I mean, I like hearing it, it makes me feel sort of ethereal and calm, and yeah, closer to God.
	But then, so does Bach.
	I know now that even though I like Led Zeppelin, it is essentially satanic.
	It's not good.
	But how do we know, objectively speak, I mean, okay, we've got the tradition, but how do we know that Gregorian chant isn't just a kind of a diabolical psyop infiltration kind of thing?
	How can you tell that it's godly?
	By the fruits.
	What effect, what lasting effect does this music have on me?
	And what lasting effect does that kind of music have on me?
	And it is objective.
	It's ridiculous to say that the Beatles are as good as Beethoven.
	Beethoven is actually quite far down towards modern times.
	There's a lot of the modern world coming in Beethoven.
	Because the whole world is descending towards the Antichrist, and has been ever since particularly Protestantism.
	Beethoven followed Protestantism by quite a way.
	Luther was operative in the early 1500s.
	early 1500s.
	Beethoven was operative in the late 1700s and the beginning of the 1800s.
	That's quite a while after Luther.
	But Luther is definitely in Beethoven's world The modern world is definitely in Beethoven's music.
	That's why a lot of moderns will prefer Beethoven to Mozart because Mozart is too calm.
	He doesn't speak to them.
	On the other hand, a lot of people will prefer Mozart to Beethoven precisely because Mozart is calmer and less stormy and less passionate than Beethoven.
	Sorry, I want to continue this, but I'm getting a message.
	Bishop Williamson has Riverside open in other tabs.
	Ask Bishop Williamson to close all other browser tabs open with Riverside.
	So maybe you've got another version of Riverside open in a separate... I'll pass over to Alan.
	Yeah.
	Have a look.
	It's probably the old tab from the previous.
	Oh, what's this?
	Yeah.
	That should do it.
	Okay, great.
	Thank you.
	Music is a fascinating subject.
	It is.
	A man... You can tell a lot about a man from the music he likes.
	It tells you what's going on In the depths of his soul.
	Yeah.
	It's a very deep language.
	Every man has some music in him.
	Shakespeare understood music.
	If music be the food of love, play on, and so on.
	The man that hath no music in him, I think it's in Julius Caesar.
	Beware of the man that has no music in him.
	And so on and so on.
	Tolstoy was another one who understood, who sensed, who responded to music.
	So it's a common language of men and it's a natural and deep language of the human soul.
	You see, you've been very, very naughty there by mentioning Tolstoy, because that could send me spinning off into another digression, because I'm quite interested in your take on Tolstoy's religious outlook, but maybe we'll come back to that.
	I imagine you've got views.
	Let me say very fast, Tolstoy asks the right questions and he goes into the right problems, but he doesn't come up with a Christian answer.
	Right, okay.
	So he wasn't a Christian in your view?
	I would say not.
	Right, okay.
	Going back to the music, we can agree on Bach.
	I'm suspicious of Mozart because he was a Freemason.
	It wasn't in the depths of him.
	He had a very pious upbringing.
	He was a naughty boy.
	You could see that sometimes in his music.
	He was a naughty boy, but he was not wicked.
	Right.
	And when he was dying, he was writing the Sublime Requiem, which is very Christian.
	It's a good Requiem Mass.
	I mean, it's a bit over the top.
	In contrast with the Brahms Requiem, which is not Christian.
	Brahms is in despair.
	Oh, okay.
	I quite like Brahms' symphonies.
	Oh yes.
	Oh yes, Dvořák said about him, what a man.
	And he doesn't believe in God.
	Because Dvořák was a Czech and most likely a devout man, most likely a Catholic.
	I don't know much about Dvořák.
	But he loved Brahms, but he knew that Brahms was, that the soul of Brahms was not completely in order.
	Brahms was part of the 19th century, part of the disbelieving 19th century, but Brahms was still an heir to that great Christian tradition of classical Viennese music, which began with Papa Haydn, who was deeply Catholic, and who, when he was lacking a tune, prayed the Rosary, and then a tune came!
	I like that.
	And Beethoven had a veneration for Popeye.
	Beethoven was wreaking, past tense wrought, a revolution in music.
	Beethoven was very revolutionary, but he inherited a glorious tradition which came from, directed from, the Catholic Church.
	The Austria of Maria Theresa, which was the Austria of Mozart's childhood.
	That's the deepest influence in Mozart, which is why the music, the tunes and the tunefulness and the joy are always springing up in Mozart.
	But he was also a naughty boy.
	People are a mixture.
	So what would Dan Bach have been?
	Would he have been a Catholic or a Protestant?
	No, he was a Protestant.
	So do you consider him a baddie?
	I consider that his Protestantism lends a certain coldness, a certain mathematicalness to some of his music.
	But Bach is a mixture.
	We're all of us a mixture.
	There's good and bad.
	There's no man so bad that there's no good in him.
	There's no man so good that there isn't bad in him.
	All of us are grey.
	None of us are completely black or completely white.
	Black is not white.
	White is not black.
	But most of the realities in life are grey, a mixture.
	So there's a great deal of good in Bach.
	And something that isn't so good, the good is the Catholic tradition from which Bach came.
	It wasn't the same tradition as Haydn.
	Bach was in northern Germany, which is a different place from southern Germany.
	Southern Germany remained Catholic at the time of the Reformation.
	South and West Germany remain Catholic.
	The Rhineland and Bavaria, for instance, and Austria, they remain Catholic, whereas North Saxony and the North and East of Germany weren't Protestant.
	So, Bach is a mixture, but The one who realized how the arts come from the Catholic Church was the English art critic Sir Kenneth Clarke, and he converted before he died.
	He was an art critic, so he knew the arts.
	He wasn't himself a painter or a drawer or a sculptor, but he knew the great artists And he knew, he recognized before he converted, that the greatness of the arts came from the Catholic Church, and not from Protestantism.
	Protestantism in itself, by itself, as such, is sterile, whereas the Catholic Church is very fruitful in all times and in all ages.
	But in Catholics, Like in Judas Iscariot.
	In all Catholics, they can be traitors.
	And when they are traitors, they are some of the very worst traitors, because they have been, by their Catholicism, some of the very best of men.
	Before we get back to my original question, which I'll remind you of in a moment, do you think, is Bach in heaven?
	God knows.
	After every piece that he wrote, I think he wrote in all his manuscripts, you see at the end, SDG, Soli Deo Glori, which is let the glory be to God alone.
	So the man was pious, undoubtedly.
	He was Protestant pious.
	He was amongst the best of Protestants.
	You can't accuse Bach of not being fruitful, but what you could argue, I'm sure, if you looked at it and looked at him in depth, you would find that the melody and the beauty of his music and the order
	and the clarity come from the Catholic tradition of which he was living, or which he inherited, while the gentleness and the love and the beauty of his music descended from his Catholic heritage.
	I'm sure you could argue that if you knew Bach in detail.
	I don't know him in detail.
	I don't care all that much for him because I don't like the Protestant element so much.
	I think that's why I don't like him.
	Right.
	But when you listen to musicians talking about him, you know, the great Viennese musicians, I think you can say safely, all had the greatest veneration for Bach.
	Yeah.
	Which means that a lot of what they had was in Bach as well.
	The Germans are great for music.
	They're not so great for literature.
	The English are better for literature.
	They're not so great for music.
	We have Elgar and Purcell and a few, but the great amount of classical music comes from Germans.
	Yeah.
	I think, for what it's worth, that God is not so mean that he wouldn't welcome into heaven the guy who wrote... The B Minor Mass?
	Yeah, the B Minor Mass, exactly.
	Well, he's picking up, he's reconnecting with a Catholic tradition.
	Well, that's good enough.
	Back to my original question, which was, so long ago you've probably forgotten it, which is, so I said there's a gradation of sin, you know, if you like, it's the gradation from the web to the chains.
	Yes.
	So at the top end, in the chains, no question, they're going to go straight to hell, are pretty much all the people who run the world, the rulers of the darkness of this world.
	Yes, yes.
	They've had it.
	They're not going to repent.
	I mean, obviously there's always room for repentance, but they're not.
	You can bet on it.
	But then you've got the bloke, say, who eats a bit too much Yorkshire pudding and, you know, likes a pint or too many pints.
	Acquires a certain roundness of nature.
	Yeah, exactly, and is complacent and just watches too much TV and stuff.
	That's the Catholic doctrine of purgatory.
	The pains of purgatory, some theologians say, are as bad as the pains of hell, with this tremendous exception.
	If you're in purgatory, you know it's going to come to an end.
	The pain is going to come to an end.
	Right.
	Whereas in hell, the hell of hell, I think St.
	Augustine says, is that you know that it's never, never, never going to come to an end.
	That is one thing that I envy you Catholics, that you have a theological option there.
	Because you can explain something, you can answer my question.
	Look, we have this solution.
	We have, you know, hell for the Rishi Sunak.
	Hell for the Satanists.
	Yeah, hell for the Satanists.
	Perfectly for too much Yorkshire Pulling.
	Keir Starmer's definitely going to go to hell.
	There's no way that guy is not going to... Even before he does the thing he's about to do to our country, he's going to hell.
	Keir Starmer, you're with me on that, aren't you?
	OK, I don't know well enough to... I don't know him well enough.
	I've never studied his case.
	I don't know him.
	Trilateral Commission.
	You know about the Trilateral Commission?
	Yes.
	He's a member of the Trilateral Commission.
	Well, that's pretty bad, yes.
	Yeah, I'd say.
	I mean, we could go into details about what kind of tortures might await him for membership of the Trilateral Commission, but we won't.
	So, I'm glad you answered that one.
	I wanted to go back Just just because we ought to keep this ostensibly about the psalm at least I really like the next line of this of this psalm, which it would I'm using the The Book of Common Prayer version, which I think is, was probably about the same time that the Reims-Douai Bible translation was done.
	It would have been about the 1550s, say?
	Yes, I don't know.
	I'm not, I'm not certain of the date of the Douai Reims, but it was certainly around the middle of the, around the middle of the 1500s.
	So, the line I've got in my version, it is like the precious oil upon the head that ran down onto the beard, even onto Aaron's beard, and went down to the skirts of his clothing.
	It's a great line, isn't it?
	Yes, it is.
	It's very evocative.
	Why Aaron's beard, do you think, rather than, say, I don't know, Moses' beard, or... Well, Aaron was the brother of Moses, and a very high figure in the founding of the chosen people at the time of Moses, which was the founding of the Old Testament.
	There were about 500 years from Abraham to Moses, about 500 from Moses to David.
	So Aaron was at the time of Moses.
	He was his brother.
	And Moses was the political leader, administrative leader.
	Aaron was the religious leader.
	So the beard of Aaron is the beard of the high priest at the beginning of the priesthood of the Old Testament.
	And they must have used a lot of oil.
	I mean, it comes up again and again, this anointing oil, this precious oil.
	They must have spent a lot of their, a lot of their sort of GDP on oil.
	Oil is, olive oil in particular, is in religious use for a long ways back.
	And it's still used by the Catholic Church, the rightful Catholic Church.
	Now, for instance, in the New Rite, it was used in baptism, and it was used in the Sacrament of Confirmation, and the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
	That's three out of the seven sacraments, oil was used.
	The other four, I can't think for the moment.
	And there are three oils that the Catholic Church uses.
	There's the sacred chrism, that's an anointing oil.
	The holy oil, it's called quite simply.
	And then there's the oil of the weak, oil of the infirm, oil for the sick.
	So there are the three oils that the Catholic bishop in his diocese, in a solemn ceremony on Mournsday Thursday, which is the Thursday of Holy Week, he consecrates these oils for the next year.
	And then each year, the bishop renews the consecration of new oils, the old oils are burnt and gotten rid of, the new oils circulate all over his diocese for use by the priests to give those three sacraments.
	The principle, why oil?
	Well, in case of olive oil, it's got three uses.
	You can burn it for light, you can use it medically, and you can use it nutritionally.
	Olive oil is still used to eat or to drink, or to make, for instance, salads.
	Olive oil is definitely medicinal because it's very healthy, and olive oil is largely burnable for purposes of light.
	Therefore, olive oil is extremely versatile and is very profitable.
	It's obviously good for human beings, and that's possibly why it has such a prominent place in religion.
	The original creation of olive oil, the original structure of olive oil, the original qualities of olive oil obviously come from Almighty God.
	I don't know, but maybe there's no other vegetable oil that's comparable to olive oil, and hence its primacy and its use in religion.
	I don't know.
	But that's my guess.
	Yeah.
	Now you can use the New Church, as it's best called, and that's one word, capital N, N-E-W-C-H-U-R-C-H, as opposed to the Church.
	You've got, prior to the Vatican II, you've got the Church, and following on Vatican II, you've got a brand new religion, centered on man, whereas the old religion was centered on God.
	You've got now a new mass centered on man, as opposed to the old mass which was centered on God.
	The whole of Vatican II was a turn from God towards man, putting man in the center instead of God.
	So, in the new religion, and in the new rite of anointing the sick, for instance, no, in the new rite of confirmation, You can use any vegetable oil instead of olive oil.
	No!
	The new church pretends that any other oil, whereas the old church always insisted on olive oil for the value, the valid sacraments in which it was used, for the validity of the sacraments in which it was used, now you've got, you can use peanut oil, you can use He might even be able to use engine oil for a while.
	Or rapeseed oil for that matter.
	Yes.
	There's not much difference between that and engine oil.
	Yes.
	Isn't it just characteristic of the tone deafness of the infiltrators of the old church that they cannot see that substituting weird modern mechanically extracted oils for for olive oil is not a thing they should be doing.
	It should be so obvious to anyone with any soul.
	Yes, it should be obvious, but the creators of the new religion of Vatican II are modern men, determined to get in tune with and to reach out to modern men.
	Mother Man is godless, so you're trying to make godliness out of godlessness.
	It's a contradiction.
	I mean, there's no escape for these people, is there?
	They're really going to burn in hell, or freeze in hell, whatever your preferred version is.
	Absolutely.
	They've done their best to destroy, and they're still doing their best to destroy, the old religion.
	Pope Bergoglio Of whom many Catholics, many old-fashioned Catholics, declare that he is not Pope at all.
	He's so bad that he's not Pope at all, which you can argue for or against.
	But in any case, he's doing his best to destroy the Old Mass.
	He was planning another document, he's made one already, called Traditiones Custodes, but he's made another document.
	He wants to get rid of the Old Mass altogether, and that's a no-no.
	And the Old Mass is the real sacrifice, it's the right of that, it's the rerun of what true Catholic doctrine says.
	The Old Mass is the rerun of the crucifixion itself, the very same sacrifice.
	The victim of the sacrifice was Christ himself, and that victim is is reproduced in the Old Mass, the victim is the transubstantiated bread and wine which is offered by the priest and consumed by the priest.
	The sacrificer in the sacrifice of Christ was Christ himself.
	The sacrificer in the Old Mass is the priest standing in for Christ.
	The priest at Mass does not say, This is his body and his flesh.
	It says, this is my body.
	You know, the priest says, this is my body.
	It isn't the priest's own physical body, but it is the body of Christ for whom the priest is the standing.
	So you've got the same sacrifice of the same sacrifice You've got... The Mass, properly understood, is a true sacrifice, which the Protestants deny, which Luther denied.
	And Luther said, destroy the Mass and I'll destroy the Church.
	He wanted to destroy the Mass.
	And he substituted the Protestant rite, which was not a sacrifice.
	And whenever in the words of the RITE, R-I-T-E, of the True Mass, you've got the word sacrifice, it was taken out by the reformers of the 1950s and 60s who made the New Rite of Mass.
	They couldn't bear the idea that it was a sacrifice.
	Just like Luther, they were refusing, in effect, that it was a sacrifice.
	And the new mass is not like the old mass.
	By the new rite, it's designed to be something very different from the old mass.
	Because the new mass is the mass of the new church, which is a new religion, centered on man instead of on God.
	I'm right in thinking, aren't I, that the principle of apostolic succession Means that all the bishops in the Catholic Church go back to the apostles, is that right?
	Yes, correct.
	So, have you not got a problem?
	Given that the current generation of bishops in the Catholic Church, most of them must be wrong-uns.
	I'm sorry, most of them must be?
	Must be wrong-uns.
	I mean, they're not real, are they?
	They're basically working for the other side.
	They're batting for the other team.
	That's a conclusion that many old-fashioned Catholics draw, that the new bishops are doubtful bishops, and new priests are doubtful priests.
	I'm not saying that that's a certainty, but it's certainly a conclusion at which a number of Catholics today arrive when they contemplate the new Church and what was done at Vatican II to the true Church.
	They conclude that the bishops of the new church are not real bishops.
	Yes.
	Well, I mean, for what it's worth, you know, from where I'm sitting, and I'm not a Catholic, as you know, I would say your lot have got it right.
	And the current Pope is basically an anti-Pope and most of his servants are as well because it because inevitably when an organization gets infiltrated that they're not going to promote the people that the good bishops although they're not going to promote good priests to becoming bishops are they?
	They're going to take over the whole system.
	Correct.
	Absolutely correct.
	So which is going to leave I mean, if you break the apostolic succession, you know, if somebody, if you get a dotty priest, how are you going to regain that, the purity of the line?
	Very good question and the answer is that a chastising is coming which is going to eliminate a large part of mankind.
	That's how Our Lady put it when she appeared in 1973 to a Japanese sister, Catholic sister, and told her, fire will fall from heaven, eliminating a large part of mankind, the good as well as the bad, the priests as well as the laity, and the survivors will be so desolate that they will anger the dead.
	That's what she has said is coming.
	So Almighty God is going to rescue His Church and put the Pope back on his feet by, amongst other things, eliminating a large number of those churchmen of whom you said that, you know, they're obviously not going to convert.
	There are churchmen so Freemasonic, so Satanic, so sunk in the new religion, which is their creation, that they will never turn back to the old religion.
	Almighty God will offer a grace of conversion to all of these churchmen to help them, if they want, to avoid the horrors of eternal hell to which they're exposing themselves.
	He will offer them conversion, they will refuse it.
	And those, it's almost certain, will be eliminated in the chastisement.
	So the answer to the degree and climbing of evil represented by today's Catholic Church, the increase of evil, the increase of Satanism, and in the world wide world, and you know, obviously you're up to date with the ever increasing Satanism.
	You know, one horror being introduced after another.
	The horror of pretending that boys can be girls and girls can be boys is a violation of nature.
	It's an insult to God.
	It's an attempt to wipe out the difference which God established between man and woman for very good purposes.
	And God's purpose is to populate the world and the purpose of the Satanist is obviously to depopulate the world.
	So, those inconvertibles will be wiped out, and the Lord God will begin again with a fresh church, a fresh start, like happened with Noah.
	Ways back, even long before Abraham, after Adam, there was Noah, And even in just the 1,000 years, about 1,000 years, between Adam and Noah, mankind had made itself so wicked that Almighty God had to, so to speak, if he wanted to continue with the human race, he had to wipe out practically everybody by the flood.
	Yes, yes.
	I see that.
	I see the pattern.
	God is constantly being disappointed with his creation because they behave so badly.
	It's up to you to convert to the true Catholicism and to behave well and to compensate our Lord for You are very persuasive, but I get this a lot from my favourite Catholics.
	You're always trying to bring, you know, a heathen like me over to the Mother Church and all that.
	I like my Catholic friends.
	Does this mean then, so when the horrible... What it means is you should pray the Rosary.
	How long does the Rosary take to pray?
	Uh, five mysteries.
	There are 15 issues altogether.
	Five mysteries.
	I'd say, let's say an average 15 minutes.
	Okay.
	I have learned.
	I have learned Sancta Michael Archangelae, defender nos in prolio contra iniquitiam et insidia.
	Well done.
	Well done.
	If Satanism is coming anywhere near to you, and it probably is, Satan's certainly got you in mind and he wants you in hell.
	If you realise that you're up against Satan, pray that prayer.
	It's a Saint Michael.
	It's powerful.
	It is.
	It's a little exorcism and it will protect you.
	It will shoo him off.
	It will shoo him away.
	This is going to annoy some of my sort of Calvinist friends, but I do say that prayer every day.
	Well done!
	Twice a day actually.
	Well done!
	Well done!
	Very good!
	Because you're calling on somebody very powerful and a great enemy of Satan.
	It was St.
	Michael who kicked Satan out of heaven when Satan misbehaved.
	When Satan refused God, he was immediately kicked out of heaven with all the angels following him.
	And they were driven, scripture says, you may know it, the hell that was created for Satan and the fallen angels.
	I think it's our Lord that refers to that.
	The hell that was created for Satan and also for fallen human beings.
	Yes, when I reread the Bible, on my second kind of run through at the moment, it's quite elliptical about the bit where a third of the heavenly hosts gets chucked out of heaven.
	You have to almost infer this stuff from little clues rather than... I think the text of the third of the angels, I think it's in Isaiah, maybe chapter 14.
	I have a look around here.
	But Isaiah seems to be referring to stuff that, books that no longer exist, or Isaiah knew stuff that we didn't and he's sort of referring to it casually as if we do know.
	Nevertheless, what scripture quotes is bound to be true.
	Right.
	Can I ask you, this is a personal question.
	Do you think we get to ride horses in heaven?
	I don't.
	If you're looking for a form of happiness, you're going to be so bewitched.
	That's not the right word because there's no witchery in heaven.
	But so entranced and so enthralled by the vision of God himself.
	Yeah.
	that you will no longer even think of horses.
	Oh okay, fair enough.
	Just to return to the Satanic Keir Starmer for a moment, he's about to... He will ban fox hunting, which I think is one of God's...
	Well, not the greatest, but it's a good thing that God has given us.
	And it's about to be taken away from us by the evil agent of Satan, Starmer.
	And it would be nice to think that there was some kind of approximation of fox hunting in him.
	When you see God, you won't worry about fox hunting or foxes or any of the animals.
	You will be so completely entranced.
	It will be the total satisfaction of the depths of your soul which long for the true, the beautiful, and the good.
	The vision of God will make you forget so many material things.
	Heaven is unimaginably blissful.
	Is it a physical place, would you say?
	Surely yes.
	Surely yes.
	Do you think it's above the firmament?
	If it's a physical place, it's got to be somewhere.
	Yeah.
	And I think above the firmament is the closest one can get to saying where it is.
	Hell is thought to be inside this planet, in the depths of this planet.
	Yes.
	I think that's right.
	I think it is.
	Is it Sheol?
	Sheol?
	That's one of the Hebrew words for hell.
	Yeah.
	Because I don't know where you are on... I know you're quite sort of out there.
	You're quite with a lot of the things I believe in.
	I go with Psalm 19 or Psalm 18 in your book and I think that that is essentially telling us that there is a firmament.
	I don't believe in outer space.
	I don't believe in all the planets.
	I think they're just a sort of distraction designed to take our minds away from God's earthly creation.
	And I think that probably the earth is flat, not round.
	Is that too much for you?
	Oh, that's a violation of common sense.
	That's a different matter.
	As long as you're not going to tell me that it's a theological issue, which I think it isn't.
	I think it's a common sense issue.
	I think you shouldn't be so sure, my lord.
	You shouldn't, really.
	We can come back to this one.
	Shall we?
	We've got to bring the psalm to an end.
	So we've got, like as the dew, that's not dew, that's dew, of Hermon, which fell upon the hill of Zion.
	So what's going on there?
	One moment.
	Let me find it in the text here.
	Which ran down to the sky, it's another comparison, isn't it?
	Yes, it is, yeah.
	Well, Hermon is a... There's a greater Hermon and a lesser Hermon.
	They're two mountains in Palestine.
	Right.
	In the Holy Land.
	And they're visible from Galilee, I think they're visible.
	And even maybe, in certain directions, even maybe visible from Jerusalem.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I've never been to the Holy Land, so I can't tell.
	You haven't?
	No, I've never been to the Holy Land.
	And for a mysterious reason, I don't think now, or despite the tremendous attraction it would be, I don't think I would dare to step into the Holy Land.
	No, you'd be offed in no time.
	I think that's true.
	You'd be got by Mossad, and actually, or Shin Bet, and to be honest, so would I. I used to be a massive fan of all that, and now I'm thinking, No, so but which is a shame.
	So we're never going to get to see the Sea of Galilee, which I gather we've got this great this we're minus a vicar at the moment and it's great because he was awful.
	He was he was all woke and he didn't he did a terrible thing called intinction where he dipped the wafer in the in the wine and then you sort of had it like a soggy biscuit.
	That's right.
	Imagine that's not the blood of Christ.
	Is it?
	Well, I don't think it was the blood of Christ in the first place, but anyway... No, of course you don't, but I'm just... It is meant to... With the Protestants, it's meant at least to represent the blood.
	Yeah, well, exactly.
	So there's a splendid chap called Gerard Hoare who deputes, you know, he's a lay, he's a lay, but he doesn't, he doesn't lecture you about Ukraine in the sermons or any of this nonsense.
	He just, just sticks to things like what the weather conditions are like on the Sea of Galilee and why you get storms.
	It was much more, much more like it.
	Anyway, the final part.
	For there the Lord promised his blessing.
	Well, that's the Jew, the Israelite, glorifying Mount Sion.
	Mount Sion, as the other psalm, 136 or 137, you've got "I wept by the waters of Babylon" and he's dreaming of Jerusalem.
	And if he were to make music for the heathens of Babylon, he would be betraying Jerusalem.
	The Israelites had a huge devotion to the very city of Jerusalem.
	They still have.
	And they're trying to drive the Arabs out.
	And it's very possible they're planning the third temple.
	which is a blasphemy and may well be an impossibility.
	It wasn't to create the third temple.
	Well, the first temple was Solomon.
	The second temple was Herod.
	The third temple, which the Israelites dream of, which Jews dream of, is going to be in Jerusalem.
	They have an immense devotion to Jerusalem, and therefore Mount Sion is the mount of Jerusalem, and the Jews' religious heart is very attached to the Mount Sion.
	So the place where the oil is due to flow above all, isn't that it?
	Around down to the skirt of his garment, like the Dio of Hermon, it's another comparison, which descended upon Mount Sion.
	So the Diu of Hermon, why the Diu of Hermon descends upon Mount Sion, I'm not quite sure, because Mount Sion is not right next to either the Greater or the Lesser Hermon.
	Those two mountains are a ways away from, geographical mountains are away from, there's a good distance between those two mountains geographically and the geographical Jerusalem.
	It's a comparison.
	The Diu of Hermon is assaulted with these mountains and descending upon Mount Sion glorifies the dew even more.
	If the dew is descending on Mount Sion, there in Sion the Lord hath commanded blessing and life forevermore.
	Again, the devotion to Jerusalem.
	So it's the precious ointment Running down his beard so plentifully that it runs down the skirt of his garment, he's soaked in oil, like the Dew of Hermon, which soaks Mount Sion.
	And in Mount Sion in Jerusalem, the center of the Jews' religion, the one and only temple at that time, in the New Testament, there will be temples containing not just The sacred baton of Aaron, a piece of manna, and what else?
	What's the third object?
	I forget.
	There are three holy objects inside the temple, inside the tabernacle of the temple.
	The Ark of the Covenant?
	That's the...
	These three objects were contained in the Ark of the Cray.
	In the Ark, okay, right.
	It's, I think, I've got two of them.
	I can't remember the third object.
	There's a piece of manna, there's the rod of Aaron, and I can't remember.
	Anyway, those three objects.
	But in the Catholic religion, the temples are now, for which the Old Testament was the training, the formation and training of mankind for the New Testament.
	That's what I thought that Israelites and Jews cannot bear.
	That the Old Testament was totally subordinate to the New Testament.
	The New Testament was the total purpose of the Old Testament, but that's the truth.
	Yes.
	So without wishing to provoke you...
	Just finish.
	Sorry.
	The temples all over the world of the New Testament, instead of just the one temple of the Old Testament, and all of the temples, many, many, many of the New Testament temples of the Catholic churches,
	contain not just these physical objects associated contain not just these physical objects associated with the glory of the Israelites and their mission, but God himself, by transubstantiation, a consecrated host contained in the tabernacle, is the presence of God himself.
	So you've got the Catholic Church with God in every single temple of a multitude of temples.
	In the Old Testament you've only got one temple with some sacred objects contained in the Ark of the Covenant, but that was the training of mankind for the New Testament with its multitude of temples everywhere, each of them containing not just a stake and a piece of manna and so on, but containing the real presence of God himself.
	Because after consecration, in mass, in a valid mass, that piece of bread, what looks like, still looks like, tastes like and weighs like ordinary bread, is no longer bread.
	The substance of that is now the body and blood and soul and divinity of our Lord Himself, of God Himself.
	So in every Catholic Church you've got God himself being present in a special way through the transubstantiation of the bread and wine.
	That's how much greater the New Testament is than the Old Testament.
	Yes, I'm sorry to have interrupted you.
	I was getting all excited about my next question.
	But yes, I tend to be with you on that, the theological direction you were taking.
	Please, go back to your question.
	Well, what it was, I don't want to sort of provoke you or end up being sort of kicked off the internet.
	But I'm quite surprised to hear you conflating the word Jew with Israelite when there are periods in the Old Testament where the word Jew is never meant.
	It comes really quite late.
	And I think it's inaccurate to refer as Jews to the children of Israel who were a separate entity.
	You can certainly distinguish between the two, but there is a huge connection between, let's call them, the Talmudists of today and the Israelites of yesterday.
	I agree with you that Israelites is a better name.
	You see, Jew comes from Judah, which is only one of the twelve tribes of the Israelites.
	So, there are differences between Jews and Israelites, yes, but there's much more the same than is different.
	The racial ancestry is, well, even that is diminished and doubtful ever since the destruction of the Temple in the year 70, but there's much more the same than there is different.
	Only, they were the people of God, the chosen race, before they crucified our Lord.
	They become, soon after crucifying the Lord, within a few hundred years of crucifying the Lord, they're getting rid of the Old Testament, because the Old Testament does in fact prepare for the New Testament, and it speaks of our Lord on many pages.
	And if you know how to read the Old Testament, you can say it's on every page.
	Because the whole of the Old Testament is oriented towards our Lord, towards the Messiah, towards the New Testament.
	Yes.
	And that's what the Talmudists cannot bear.
	And they can't even bear the Old Testament as their scripture any longer.
	And they had to substitute it because the Old Testament speaks too much about our Lord.
	And so if it's going to be their scripture, The Jews who refuse Christ, reading the Old Testament, will keep on stumbling over Christ being mentioned or referred to.
	Therefore, the Jews had to change their scripture, and they created the Talmud instead.
	Ah!
	That's why they created the Talmud.
	Yes.
	It postdates Christ.
	Yes.
	I think the Babylon Talmud, there's the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylon Talmud, and I'm not an expert unfortunately, I don't know surely enough, but it was designed to replace the Old Testament so that in the Talmud Jesus Christ is referred to only by way of blasphemy.
	Yes, apparently he's boiling an excrement or worse.
	That's right.
	And his mother is also a blaspheme.
	Yeah, that's not nice.
	Yeah, we don't get taught this stuff in comparative religious classes at school, do we?
	But then, it's a fallen world.
	I mean, I remember when I was at school, When I went to my prep school, we did scripture classes.
	So by the time I left my prep school at 13, I knew all the New Testament and all the major stories of the Old Testament.
	That's right.
	That was standard, wasn't it?
	But now, they don't get tortured.
	Let's call them the we-know-who.
	The we-know-who have emptied out education so that all the gentiles will be completely stupid.
	That's exactly what they've achieved.
	In America it was a Horace Mann who took a great step in the direction of public education and it was a great step in the direction of lies taking over the world.
	Yeah, I see it so much more now now that my eyes now that the scales have fallen from my eyes.
	I mean 20 years ago.
	I would have advocated for you know, I would have ridiculed those who saw rock music as satanic.
	I would have insisted that Hollywood movies merely reflected our culture.
	They didn't shape it.
	They weren't part of the satanic brainwashing and stuff.
	Once you understand how the world works, it becomes hard to look at any of these things without recognizing that they are all diabolical.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	The prince of this world is Satan.
	It's in scripture.
	St.
	John refers to that.
	Well, I've really enjoyed talking to you and I'm glad we managed to get to the end of the psalm, despite the digressions.
	I hope that I get to meet you in the flesh one day.
	And if I came to one of your masses, I know I wouldn't be able to take communion, but I'd be quite interested to see what... I imagine I would feel the presence of God there.
	Very possible.
	Not thanks to me, but thanks to the Church.
	And it would all be in Latin, yeah?
	Yes, everything would be in Latin.
	You'll be very welcome.
	The house is open, we've got several rooms.
	You can stay for a couple of weeks.
	Right.
	But you have to pray the rosary every day, how's that?
	Is that right?
	Is that right?
	Okay.
	Well, it's been really good talking to you.
	And I can tell you, so many people have said, get Bishop Williamson on, get him on, get him on.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	And finally...
	God said this, he said Fiat.
	Okay, okay.
	So you've had the electronic monster on your show.
	I call him the electronic monster because, you know, in real life he's the real monster.
	What are we talking about here?
	Talking about me!
	Oh, I see!
	Sorry, sorry!
	No, I thought you were referring to the fact that whenever I do podcasts with men of God, or we talk about God, there is always demon interference, or invariably there's demon interference.
	They always kind of muck around with stuff.
	Yes.
	Yes, that's why you need a little vial, V-I-A-L, of Catholic holy water, blessed by a decent priest who believes in the blessing of holy water, and then you sprinkle a tiny bit of holy water over your electronic machines to chase the devil away.
	The devil cannot stand holy water.
	Somebody came to one of my events, I think, and my brother met him.
	He was a Catholic, and he was surrounding the whole area where we were all meeting with salt to get rid of the demons.
	Is that right?
	Is that a thing?
	Could be, because salt can be blessed, yes.
	It's a basic, and it enters into the cycle of baptism.
	Yeah.
	Well, listen, I'm totally with you.
	I think the devil is real and demonic entities are real.
	Have you ever met them yourself?
	I can't... Undoubtedly I have, but not clearly recognisable.
	I've never seen the devil even in a dream.
	I've never seen him in real life.
	But I know that he's around, and I know that he's active.
	That I can vouch for.
	And by the fruits I know when it's him.
	And have you ever, as my friend Gavin Ashenden says, he had the experience of praying to the Virgin.
	And he smelt the smell of flowers.
	Apparently it's one of her signs.
	That's very possible.
	There are a number of saints with whom holy odours are associated, yes.
	Padre Pio apparently often.
	But that's done all the history.
	It's an encouragement given by God because You may or may not know the story of St.
	Therese of Avila.
	She was once traveling inside Spain somewhere, and she had to cross a river, and she almost lost her life in the middle of the river.
	And when she climbed out the other side of the river, completely dripping, she said, what did she say?
	a something like, "Dear Lord, if that's how you treat your friends, I know why you've got so many enemies." Something like that.
	It was quite funny.
	Yeah.
	I like a sense of humor.
	She was really down.
	I think she was Jewish by race.
	Unless I'm mistaken, she was Jewish by race.
	When a Jew by race really accepts the Catholic faith and submits really to our Lord Jesus Christ, he makes a crackerjack Catholic.
	As St.
	Paul says, he's being regrafted onto the original stock.
	Whereas we Gentiles, our Lord is a Jew, and the apostles were all Jews, and the whole of the original church, the church at the beginning, was Jewish.
	The Gentiles only came into it a little later.
	A Jew who picks up on our Lord Jesus Christ, truly and properly, and submits humbly, can be a crackerjack Catholic, because it's his own race, so to speak.
	A Gentile, it's not our race, therefore we are plants, we are grafts on the plant, whereas a Jew is original to the plant.
	So they can make very fine Catholics.
	And our Lord meant them to be the leaders of the Catholic Church, which they would, by their gifts, they would be.
	They would rise to the top.
	If they were real Catholics, they would rise to the top of the Catholic Church with their gifts, like they rise to the top in everything satanic that they do.
	Satanic politics, satanic art, satanic business, and so on and so on.
	They rise to the top.
	And they have a tremendous... The only thing that enables Gentiles to defend themselves against the Jews is the Catholic faith.
	But then if the Catholics fall from their faith, then the Jews just trample all over them.
	I think it's time for a cup of tea.
	I don't know about you.
	I really enjoyed talking to you, and I'm sorry we didn't get too involved in the integrity of the Psalms.
	By the way, do you like the Psalms?
	Yes, I do.
	I pray them every day.
	That's part of a priest's... It's our Lord's own school of prayer.
	It's our Lord's own self-revelation.
	It's the self-revelation of God in the Psalms.
	God is showing us in the Psalms how he How we need to think of them and how we need to pray to them.
	Do you say them out loud or do you just say them in your head?
	Mostly in my head but if I'm alone then I can sometimes sort of mutter them but mostly in my head.
	So you think it because I say them every day.
	I've now got about 30 psalms and I do them in my head when I'm walking the dog and things or when I'm driving.
	And somebody, a fellow Christian said to me the other day, you know, it's much better when you say these things out loud because the word is more powerful and you think it's okay to just do them in your head?
	Well, obviously and certainly there are some instances when you can't say them out loud.
	But it's possible that saying them out loud when you're on your own is more powerful, it's more...
	It's more, it probably most likely chases the number of devils it will chase away.
	Because reciting the Psalms is obviously not his cup of tea.
	That's been my view.
	I definitely have far fewer sort of thoughts which are evidence of things assailing me, you know, sort of external things getting into my head.
	I don't feel that these days.
	Yeah.
	Because we're so many Psalms.
	I mean, you're kind of bulletproof, aren't you, really?
	There's a wealth in those 158 Psalms, yes.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Good.
	Well, thank you again.
	Where can people find you?
	Would you tell us your website and things?
	Um, if they, where can people find us, Alan?
	SaintMarcelInitiative.org SaintMarcelInitiative.org That's a mouthful but we can remember it.
	SaintMarcelInitiative.org All lowercase and no stops.
	All lowercase and no stops.
	SaintMarcelInitiative.org Okay.
	Well, Bishop Williamson, my lord, if I don't see you at one of your masses, I hope to meet up with you in heaven.
	Very good.
	Very good.
	Putin might make it a little difficult in the near future to cross the Atlantic so easily as we've been able to do.
	But yes, may we meet, there was a saying of St Thomas More, may we all meet merrily in heaven.
	I bet you he was a merry man.
	And England used to be merry when he was Catholic, but now it's grey.
	Poor England is grey, grey, grey with liberalism.
	I'm with you there.
	It's a grim place.
	But then everywhere is these days, I fear.
	It's turning grim.
	It's rejecting God.
	Yeah, it is.
	It's all in the good book.
	It's all been predicted, hasn't it?
	It's been predicted, yes.
	Well, great talking to you.
	Thank you very much.
	And I wish you a lovely rest of your day.
	Thank you very much.
	The good comes from God, the rest comes from us.
	Right.
	Oh, will you give us all a blessing before you go?
	Amen.
	Thank you.
	Sure, thank you.
	Amen.
	Amen.
	Thank you.
	Sure.
	Thank you.
	Okay.
	Bye-bye.
	Thank you.
	. .
	.

▲