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May 9, 2024 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:57:52
Gary Richied

Gary is a historian, theologian, educator and author in the fields of history, economics, theology, philosophy and social science. His academic work (including his most recent book, A TWISTED HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES, 1450-1945 [2022]) which covers American history to its end, in 1945. The rest of his offerings focus on the essential complementarity of anarcho-capitalism and Catholicism. His website is http://hoth2ohistory.com and he also runs the HotH2OHistory podcast.↓ ↓ ↓ Gold is a great way to opt-out of centrally planned currency by the elites, but it doesn’t grow/offer a yield/you can’t use it as money. Monetary Metals offers the ability to grow your total ounces by renting or loaning your gold to gold-using businesses. Earn 2-5% annually on your gold while supporting businesses in the gold industry, or, if you’re an accredited investor, you could be eligible to earn even higher yields (double digits) in their gold bond offerings. It’s 100% physical and 100% yours. Your metal, you’re in control. If you don’t like an opportunity, you can opt-out any time. I know this company and have had Keith Weiner on my show several times. They’re good people and I trust them. Opt-out of fiat currency and retake control of your money.Get on your own personal gold standard today with Monetary Metals. Visit https://monetary-metals.com/delingpole/ to learn more or get started opening an account. — — — — Buy James a Coffee at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/jamesdelingpole The official website of James Delingpole: https://jamesdelingpole.co.uk x

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Welcome to the Dellingpod, Gary Richide.
That's not the obvious pronunciation of your surname.
It's bad German.
Bad German.
How would you spell it in German?
It would be Rich E, so it would be the E before the I at the end.
It's actually a kind of interesting story.
My ancestors, it was originally something like Von Reitscheit, so no confusing that with an Irish surname.
Von Reitscheit, or something along those lines.
So you were a von?
That means you're a Count?
Yes, something along those lines.
Although, I don't think that it was... I'm from anything but peasant stock, really.
I don't know where the name might have come from.
You don't sound like a German Count, it has to be said.
Right, right.
That's the Chicago in me.
So, my great-grandparents ran a bowling alley in Hankinson, North Dakota, of all places.
And during World War I, there was tremendous anti-German sentiment.
In the especially rural areas of the United States, so they had to anglicize the name and thus the mispronunciation and the spelling.
You see, you are the co-host of a podcast called Hot Water History.
And I was thinking there is just a little nugget of history demonstrating the evils that our dark overlords create within our world.
So you've got ordinary German folk trying to make a living running a, what did you say, it was a skittle alley?
Yeah, it was a bowling alley.
A bowling alley, yeah.
Yeah.
And the local populace who get their information from the newspapers, presumably, or the rumour mill, have been whipped up into an anti-German frenzy in order to promote a war that is being funded by the guys who founded the Federal Reserve in 1936.
1913.
Yes.
Precisely.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, there's so many things I want to ask you.
Just tell us about your podcast and tell us about Chicago.
I've been to Chicago once and I thought it was a stunningly beautiful city.
When I was there, it wasn't raining.
The weather was really nice.
It was crisp and clear.
Absolutely.
So, first the podcast.
I'm a historian.
I was an educator for the better part of two decades.
like an almost a better version of New York.
But I know that Chicago sucks in so many ways as well.
Absolutely.
So first, the podcast, I'm a historian.
I was an educator for the better part of two decades.
We can get a little into that as to why I'm not anymore and why I'm in marketing and finance at the moment as my primary job.
But I've lived in Chicago my whole life, with the minor exception of living in Rome, in Italy, for about six months during my undergraduate years at university.
And about Chicago...
I mean it's such a it's such a place of contrast.
I think it is the The beauty that you encountered when you were here, whether we're speaking of it architecturally, culturally, or just the prodigious wealth that was generated as Chicago became the great, hopeful, and indeed the manifestation of the next great American metropolis of the West, and all of the credit That was generated from banks and financiers in the east flowing into Chicago in large part.
I'm not sure if you know this, but a nickname in Chicago is the Windy City.
People mistake that as being because it's windy here, but it has nothing to do with the weather.
The nickname originates from all the politicians because they were so full of hot wind about the prospects of Chicago that it was called the Windy City because they were always garnering more and more credit and finance to come into the city.
It was like a giant, a metropolitan Ponzi scheme.
In large part, although it ended up being oddly profitable.
A historical story, a point of fact, was the first mayor of Chicago was William Butler Ogden, and he was an Easternery.
He came over to the city just prior to it being incorporated.
And he wrote back to his brother who was the main financier.
He said, this is a dump.
Why did you send me out here?
We bought this land.
It's just a swamp.
The Indians call it the place of stinky garlic and onion.
This is never going to render any profit for us.
But at some point he had a major change of mind and it was He saw that this could be, with a lot of political work and a focus on getting bankers' attention to funnel, again, funds into the development of the city, this could be the next great metropolis.
And it turned out to be.
What it is today is that we're, as a city, we're eating our seed corn.
It was this amazingly vibrant, cosmopolitan, and Well, just immensely profitable place in which to live and ultimately raise a family.
I mean, the cosmopolitan and international character of it, you know, there are more people of Polish descent here than in any place outside of Warsaw.
So it is with great I suppose sorrow and despair that I see that we're a city that's eating its seed corn from the great days of Chicago past, especially during the Gilded Age.
And it was really under the international gold standard in which Chicago flourished, as many of the metropolises of the West did from 1870 to 1915, 14, 15.
That must have been a gold – I mean, but yeah, I'm going to say it a golden era.
I mean it must to live in that what I mean taxes were relatively low.
Non-existent in many cases.
Economies were booming.
And it wasn't just kind of, I mean, partially what you said about the Windy City, but these weren't economies just built on borrowing, on debt.
They were producing stuff, weren't they?
They were genuinely growing.
A tremendously innovative environment.
In large part, it was a response to both the solid money that the world was recognizing as the mean, the major facilitator of exchange and a guarantor of that exchange and profitability.
But beyond that there was an immense and you can read it in the people in the famous figures of the era in Chicago history as you could in London or Paris or Vienna or Minsk for that matter.
But I think of in this era the fact that in 1893 Chicago again through its bloviating politicians in large part was able to secure the site to host the 1893 World's Fair.
The World's Columbian Exposition.
And what that was, was a celebration of both how Western civilization had transformed the frontier.
In fact, Frederick Jackson Turner, the famous historian, authored and presented his frontier thesis at the fair.
And it was the triumph of Western civilization over what they considered inferior, not just what we might call indigenous civilizations, but more so over The dark savagery of ignorance of a Darth of innovation.
I mean, these people had such, and I'm going to use Misesian, that is to say Ludwig von Mises' language here, they had such a...
A low time preference.
And what I mean by that is they were investing, whether it be in their families or the institutions, in their co-workers, their corporations, their enterprises, for the long haul.
They weren't engaged in consumption and nor did they feel a compulsion to feel that way because they could literally, as a result of the gold standard, sock away their excess funds or surplus right under their proverbial mattress and not be worried about having to speculate in the open market and have bankers in Washington or Boston be in control of their fiat and keeping their fingers crossed that somehow their fiat currency and investment would grow.
Yes, I take your point.
I mean, as in inflationary times, people have to take greater risks, don't they, with their money in order to get the returns that they need to keep up with inflation at a bare minimum.
Absolutely.
And it causes all these moral hazards as a result.
Yeah.
Oh, we can talk about moral stuff in a bit, because I'm dying to find out about your early career, which we'll come to in a minute.
Sure.
You mentioned the Chicago World's Fair.
This is a rabbit hole I haven't gone down, but I know that there are lots of rabbit holes surrounding or underneath that particular event.
Have you been down any of them?
Well, yes, I mean, Eric Larson came out with his famous book, The Devil in the White City, which chronicles... Is that the serial killer one?
No.
Yes, the serial killer one with the H.H.
Holmes one.
The other rabbit holes, in terms of, is there Freemason influence there?
I was thinking more the one about how it was kind of impossible For such a vast structure to be built in such a short space and that the technologies being used were way beyond anything we've got today.
I mean didn't they use sort of Tesla technology and things for their electricity and Yeah, right.
Well, they went away from the predominant electrical current of the time was direct current, and that was all Edison.
And really, the fair became a kind of nexus or funnel point for all of the innovation that may be going on at the time.
So the director of the fair, who I'd mentioned earlier, Daniel Burnham, he constructed the White City and most of the edifices of the fair with what essentially amounts to plaster of Paris and stucco.
So immediately after the fair, it became a kind of wasteland and all the buildings burned or just fell apart.
So that was one way they cut corners.
But what is often, when I was reading Larson's book, which is indeed captivating, and I don't think he's matched his work in that regard since A Devil in the White City, but what I took away from it was just how The innovation of the period there was just a spirit of magnificent civilizational optimism, and that
And it wasn't a hubris, necessarily, as at least I detected, and I've studied it in greater detail just beyond that book.
It was a recognition of... and there were certainly social Darwinistic elements.
I mean, you have the Midway Plaisance, where the famous Ferris wheel was.
You had essentially all these villages.
There was a pygmy village, and it was a human zoo.
So there were some seriously, I would say, dark forces in terms of understanding that dynamic.
But yeah, it was a celebration of what, and of course, this is horribly controversial today, what Western civilization ought to be and should have contributed and celebrated.
So yeah, although you know what, Gary, I don't, I mean, I don't, we can maybe explore this I don't know how much you've changed and I see that you I sense that you still would call yourself a libertarian and you mentioned von Mises and stuff.
I'm wondering whether you are where I was say five years ago.
Or whether you've actually sort of moved on from that because I can't listen to that phrase Western civilization without my hackle slightly rising because I don't believe that there was ever such a thing in as much as although we the people are great.
The people who call the shots are evil and we thought we had one explanation for where everything's going and where we came from and and why it is that it that it is and I realized I've realized in the last two or three years that it that ain't the case that what we think of is the truth is just another narrative imposed on us by the the the dark overlords.
Well, it should come as some comfort that I'm with you on nearly every rabbit hole.
So, to the extent that I am doubtful and dubious and cynical of what we are fed to as a definition and the effects of Western civilization, or just civilization and its discontents to go all Freudian at the moment, I'm with you on that.
I think it comes with, when you enter the rabbit hole, it comes with a recognition of Being a terribly open willingness to say what I thought was solid needs to be really re-examined to great extent.
And that's why I am just an adamant fan.
You're number one fan in Chicago, to be sure.
I'm my only fan in Chicago, to be fair!
I'm honored to be among the The guests.
Because what I think you've assembled here, as I was pondering in anticipation of the show, what you've assembled here is a list of guests ranging from Bob Moran to Alex Thompson, I mean, to Tanya, and all these people, even Dick, okay?
It's just, you know, in Catholicism we have this notion of what's called census fidelium.
And census fidelium just simply means, if you're granted the gift, the supernatural and divine gift of faith, Even the most lowly peasant has a sense of when it's off, or some teaching or doctrine or extrapolation is not in keeping with what is at the core of fundamental revelation.
Whether that was revealed to them in some sort of interaction with a stained glass window or a mystical vision, whatever it might be, there's this collective but also individualized sense of what is truly the faith.
I count myself among those guests because they have a census, you have a census, Fidelio, we might call it census at Delingpole or something like that, wherein we're sniffing out the bullshit.
And the bullshit is piled so high sometimes it becomes so daunting that we don't even want to go to the cesspool.
But we do have to go to the cesspool because we have this insatiable desire to find the true, the real, the beautiful.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
I've got to ask you, having whetted everyone's appetite, what it is you did in your youth.
And you were a seminarian?
Is that the right word?
Yes.
A trainee monk?
I was a trainee friar, to be precise.
And what's the difference?
Well, a monk is one who, in Catholic realms, simply is devoted to the contemplative life, whether that is aramedical, which means they go off as hermits, like Minnie Trappist or someone like that, or cenobitic, which would be more of a Benedictine type of style, where they live in community.
His primary function is to pray the liturgy, the hours, particularly the Psalms.
This is why, of course, you've been drawn to the Mount Athos lifestyle as you visited there and other monastic tendencies of contemplation.
And then a friar is someone who is kind of in between being a contemplative and someone engaged actively within the world.
So, in my case, I was a Dominican, so we're Dominican friars, not unlike Augustinians or Franciscans.
And we're a mendicant order, the Dominicans are a mendicant order founded in the early 13th century by St.
Dominic de Guzman.
And so, the friar, what I did during my time as a Dominican for three years, learn immense I mean, being engaged with the Fathers of the Church and learning my Latin, although it's gone away to a large degree, and just imbibing Thomas, that is to say, Aquinas.
So, what we do in the best of what we might call mendicant life In religious life, we take the fruits of contemplation and we bring them out to the world.
And then we take the anxieties, the desires, the needs of the world and bring them to contemplation where we imitate the communion of saints and intercede for those in need.
Do you wear robes?
Yes, when I was a Dominican, I wore what's called the Dominican habit.
I look great in white.
I should have just worn white today.
I have a picture when I was... I'm now married with children, and I have a picture of myself in my habit.
And my wife always says, man, you look hot in a habit.
I think you would have been a terrible chalice chipper, you know?
Because I was never ordained, but I was on the road to ordination and to priestly life, but I left before that.
So you wear white robes.
Who are the ones who wear black robes?
That could be Salpicians, there's Augustinians wear black robes.
There are some who are baddies.
Come on, there are some who have a bad reputation.
Oh, the Jesuits wear the black.
The Jesuits are obviously baddies, but aren't the Dominicans, are they not baddies, kind of?
You know, I don't think that the good, well, Just like in every institution, there are the goodies and the baddies.
Now, there were great goodies among the Dominicans, like Francisco de Vitoria, and then there are great baddies among the Dominicans, and many of them are just modern contemporary Dominicans, who are just like... Who are the baddie Dominicans that I'd have heard of?
Well, a lot of people are critical of Torquemada.
He was engaged as a... Just a bit.
Yeah, yeah, just a bit.
But I'm thinking of the, I mean, bad Dominicans.
I mean, there are a bunch of Dominicans that are today not even what I would call Catholic in any kind of sense.
They're engaged in, like, syncretistic religious practices.
They're much more... Oh, and then, of course, we're leaving, we're just talking about the friars.
I mean, the sisters.
Many of the congregations of sisters, particularly in the United States, are just wackadoo.
In fact, the famous comedian Bill Murray, his sister is a Dominican sister, and she is certifiably nuts.
She does these weird seances where she gets into a spirit where she thinks she's Catherine of Siena, and she does these revelations.
It's just weird.
Yeah.
Well, you've touched on something that I think, and you've talked about it in your podcast as well.
I mean, your last one, or the one I heard most recently, was about Pope Francis, the anti-Pope, and like a lot of God-fearing Catholics, you're not very convinced that Pope Francis is your guy.
To say it loosely, yeah, that's actually just Jorge Bergoglio's early life is a good rabbit hole to go down because people aren't aware unless you read the background to him and are more familiar with how the church operated in Argentina during his ascent as a priest.
He should have never been ordained a priest.
He should have certainly never been ordained a bishop, much less the archbishop and cardinal of Buenos Aires, and then have the opportunity to be elevated to the papacy by the St. Gallen Group, which is just a group of powerful cardinals, homosexualists in the church who have elevated socialistic, homosexualists in the church who have elevated socialistic, Marxist, critical theory, all of the baddie stuff, and very much owned by NGOs, elevating this puppet into the Sea of Peter.
So, I mean, to just give a little bit of background of interest, I mean, he was, from very early on, his...
He had a very troubled relationship with his father, in point of fact.
And I think this is a large part why he's such a feminized figure.
For me, nothing strikes me about him as being manly at all.
The backbiting, all of the dastardly things that he's reported to be doing to inferiors.
He is vulgar.
He's coarse.
He's a bitch.
That's it.
That's a great word.
I called him an asshole in a famous debate that I had with Doug Casey on the Catholic Church a few years ago.
But a bitch is a better word for it.
And he was his intellectual hero of sorts, who he emulated closely, was Esther Balestrina, who was a victim of Pinochet's helicopter rides.
She was such a communist.
Yeah, well, I mean, so he's not really a man of God, is he?
I mean, to be fair, like a lot of Catholic priests.
I mean, we know there are some good ones, like Vigano.
Is it Vigano or Vigano?
Vigano, yeah.
Vigano, Vigano.
I mean, he's obviously great.
There are some fantastic Catholics out there, but there are also some really Correct.
And you can measure the rotten nature of an individual Catholic or an institution or society like the Jesuits to, and this is where my anarcho-capitalism will come through, is that the elements of the church, whether they be in the Vatican Or the various relief, supposedly relief organizations that are Catholic in nature, or just a society like the Jesuits.
You can tell, and it's always commensurate, the amount of rot with the way in which those entities within the ostensibly Catholic Church are operating as governmentalities, owned
I mean, a case in point, James, is that it's fairly apparent among the Catholic Episcopacy in the United States that they're no longer even appealing to their congregations.
Because their sustenance is no longer derived primarily from contributions, thanks to the fact that Blaise Cupich or Wilton Gregory of Washington or any of these feckless bishops invertebrates upon their ordination.
They don't even appeal to the faithful, they just pander to the government.
And Covid really intensified that.
I mean, the church was granted hundreds of millions of dollars.
The official total is somewhere around 1.4 billion.
But it looks like we might have frozen.
Oh, I haven't frozen.
Have you frozen?
So these are really governmentalities.
They own, they know who their princes are, you know.
Quius regio eius religio.
I can imagine...
I mean, we haven't even scraped the surface of what's wrong with your senior clergy in the US.
I mean, I've seen... Well, I mean, let's not bid about the bush.
Some of them are Satanists.
Some of them engage in barbaric practices with children.
I mean, you know, there are Catholic Archbishops I've seen on lists.
There were probably Catholic Archbishops going to Epstein Island, weren't there?
Yeah, I can see you.
It could be... Is it my end or your end?
It doesn't matter.
No, it went in my end.
For some reason my computer just said we had a critical error and it just shut down, so forgive me.
It often happens when I'm talking about God or religious matters.
It is quite amazing.
I noted the timeliness of that or the evil timeliness of that, the synchronicity there in your previous podcast.
They really don't like it, the demons.
No, I agree.
They have powers to control the airwaves and things like... To be sure.
I know, I was talking about... did you catch where I said that I'm pretty sure that there were some high-ranking Catholics who went to Epstein Island, for example?
Yes, yeah.
Even if they were a Catholic in name only, like RFK Jr.
and the like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm sure that there are...
Many other branches of the church.
Well, that's the thing, isn't it?
The church has been infiltrated on every level.
To be sure.
Do you think it's even... I can think of exceptions, but they're quite rare.
Say you were a pious but ambitious Catholic priest.
Could you even Achieve eminence these days.
I mean like I think of Cardinal Pell.
I like Cardinal Pell what I know about him.
He seems to be a good man.
Vigano we've mentioned.
I'm sure there are others but mainly it seems to be they're all bought and paid for by the Mafia, by the black nobility, by interests.
I couldn't agree more, and those who have been faithful sons of the Church, like Avigouneau or Pell, find themselves in, as Pell did, with, by the way, No effort on the part of Francis or the Vatican or the Roman Curia to stop this.
If I found myself in an Australian prison on trumped-up charges of pedophilia, I mean, just the detestable irony of a man who was certainly not guilty of those crimes being sent to an Australian prison camp from Europe by men who are certainly guilty of at least covering up said crimes of rampant pedophilia.
I was thinking, if Cardinal Powell Had actually sexually abused children would never have heard about it would have been covered up in any we've never done time in prison But when you when you don't do it, that's the crime That's right.
Well, and then they because they can't honey there.
They have nothing on you.
They haven't honey potted you Right, so you then you become the target?
Did this this all goes back honey pots I understand like where did I where's I listening to this?
Probably.
Oh, that's right on Twitter today.
I watched the seven minute, seven minute mini documentary on the background to P Diddy, you know, the Puff Daddy thing.
Mayor Lansky, was he from Chicago?
No, he's from New York.
Oh, well, yeah.
Near enough.
But apparently he was the gangster that invented the honey trap thing, or promoted it.
And now it's everywhere, isn't it?
It's infiltrated everywhere.
He said Infiltrino.
And I've got to, you've been to Rome.
So have you been into the snake-shaped auditorium at the Vatican?
they Yes, I have, and I think that is just the most demonstrably demonic audience hall you could ever... And then, have you seen these weird circus rituals that Francis has when he's in audience there?
No.
Oh, take a look.
Not only is the sculpture, which it's just a kind of demonic relief that is just disgusting, but but take a look at the he has this weird fixation on circuses.
And so what essentially there's a lot of sorcery involved, it seems going on there.
It's deplorable and detestable.
Yeah.
Yeah, we have something not quite as bad, but it gave me the creeps when I went to look at it.
Have you heard of Coventry Cathedral?
Yeah, I haven't been there, but I have heard of it.
So, Coventry, along with Winchester, were the two best-preserved medieval cities in England.
And Coventry, as you know, got
Bombed quite heavily by Hitler as part of a sort of by decorates where they were bombing places of outstanding, you know architectural Magnificence, but I think that actually the town planners did more damage I think I think it was the time, you know, the town plan was blamed the what the Luftwaffe but really it was it was you know socialism that killed these that killed most of these socialism and Satanism because I mean, I think that they're the same and
They're two ends of the same turd.
So to replace Coventry Cathedral they had a competition to choose the architect and I'm sure the competition must have been rigged because it ended up going to this modernist architect called Basil Spence.
Who had the design skills of Homer Simpson designing a car when that episode where he gets to design the car, you know design a Cathedral Basil and you go in there and you're thinking it's like.
It's like the reverse situation of Damien going into the church in the Omen, and Damien can't stand it because he's the Antichrist.
When I went into this church as a Christian, I was repelled.
It was like going into Satan's second home.
It was just horrible.
It's really, really creepy.
Yeah, and it's in keeping with You've spoken at length with other guests about how all of these The they, let's call them the they, whether it's the Rothschild Fund, the Soros Fund, or whatever, whatever entities, the UN, the WHO.
The rulers of the darkness of this world.
Yes, yes.
They all, all of their doctrines, all of what they transmit as what must be rudimentary belief of anyone who's quote unquote sane, it immunitizes and makes very close this notion of We're not made in any sort of image of God.
We're not the Imago Dei.
What sort of idiots do you think you are?
We're just...
The flecks of dust and it's all randomized and meaningless.
And so why not attack those those buildings that are residuals of an era in the Middle Ages where the human being is is elevated to that status.
And called to, as Christ does in the Gospels, the perfection of the Father.
I think those are the words of the Gospels where we are called to, or Christ calls us out to a type of divine perfection and divinization that most rankle the secular progressives of the world and all the other evil forces.
Well, I mean, it's certainly true that what is left of the great cathedrals is among, you know, the finest expression.
I mean, we don't know what... so much has been lost, you know, not least with Henry VIII and destroying all the monasteries.
Yeah.
But you get a glimpse of how Beautiful the Middle Ages must have been you know, we're encouraged to think of them as as a sort of period of ignorance and superstition and violence where I'm sure there was a lot of violence in the Middle Ages, but That phrase, you know getting medieval on your on your ass from from Pulp Fiction I think it gives a false impression of what the Middle Ages were like.
It was also a period of great learning.
Yes.
It was the original enlightenment rather than the kind of...
Yeah, to be sure.
That's why it's such a misnomer to describe the Enlightenment as an age of reason.
The truly age of reason was the High Middle Ages, where you had scholasticism flourishing and actually good work.
And going back to how the Church has This is not the only era in which the Church has been corrupted.
Its greatest scholars and contributors, including Aquinas, were locked up and censored for a time by the baddies within the upper ranks of the hierarchy.
I don't know anything about Aquinas.
You obviously do.
Just give me a sort of cigarette packet description of what he was about.
Yeah, he was a man who, of course, born in in relatively good stead in in central Italy, he was recognized as a brilliant prodigy.
And he's the one who really incorporated Aristotelianism to strengthen and edify the Church's theology up to that time.
The Church's theology, as you know, James, was most like... the great scholars, even the great luminaries of the Church, like Augustine, were In many ways, Neoplatonists.
And it was Aristotle, who had been rediscovered during the Crusades, that Thomas says, this is where we can find Fides et Ratio, the beautiful reasoning of the philosophy of realism and incorporating it into Christian theology.
And so that's why he refers to Aristotle as the philosopher throughout the Summa and the Summa Contra Gentiles and his great works.
But what I think is lost about Aquinas as the chief of the scholastics is, of course, his work reconciles reason and faith or the Christian faith, but We have to understand and situate him in his time and historical period.
The reason he, in part, entered the Dominican Order as opposed to the Benedictine or the other orders that were around or becoming just a canon and a secular priest was because he His main motivation was that the same of St.
Dominic and that was to defeat Manichaeism, i.e.
Albigensianism, this radical dualistic heresy in which, again, very much not unlike our own times, was declaring in a kind of A contrary way, a reciprocating way, that all material was bad.
And so that's, it's from the Manichaeans and the Albigensians that we get the idea of the Demiurge, and that the true God is the creator of the spiritual realm, and then the Demiurge, this evil midget God, is one that creates the material world, and thus everything made of material is faulty.
But then again within the Manichaean and Albigensian communities, you had the elites who were able to gorge themselves and engage in sexual orgies because they were exempt from what was being impelled upon the rest of the population in southeastern France.
Right, I see.
So I'd always felt sorry for the Albigensians.
I've spent time in southwestern France and I've visited.
Albi Cathedral, which was built by the Catholic Church as a kind of fortress to indicate to the local people, you know, we're in charge now, you're conquered.
I've been to the Perpetuas and the other Cathar castles and it's just very beautiful around there.
But I've always, and I've seen the places of Béziers where they were burned alive in the church, again, in the Albigensian Crusade by the Catholics.
So it was pretty bloody and they suffered horribly.
But I've never been sure what exactly their religious beliefs were.
I know they had these people in each community called les bons, the people who were supposed to be purer than everyone else.
But are you saying that they were essentially Gnostics?
By and large, Gnostics with a heavy tinge of Gnostic dualism in particular, but taken to an extreme in which all material is inherently evil.
I was going to tell you a fun story about The church's program for the Albigensian Crusades started out by sending a bunch of, I think it was Benedictines or Trappists, and they were too rich.
And so you could understand the great allure of Catholicism or Albigensianism, which is essentially the maniches of the 13th century or 12th and 13th century, because if you're desperately poor, And some preacher comes around and says, of course, all material is evil.
I have a lack of material goods.
So then I'm, in a way, blessed by God.
It's a turning around of the 180 of the type of gospel of prosperity.
So you can understand why they would be attracted toward that.
Um, and oh, I want the story that I want to tell you about the cathars is actually about Aquinas and not Dominic.
So the story is Aquinas apparently was in some castle with the king of the French, and it was Louis IX, St. Louis IX.
And he's dining with Louis, and it's a long table, and he's there.
And it was the time in which in the regal course of dining, you were not supposed to talk.
There was supposed to be a solemn silence.
And in the middle of this, according to the – it might be haggarographical, but I think it's quite true – Thomas slammed his hand on the table during this silence and said, that is how I defeat the Cathars.
and And so he had been pondering this the whole time during his meal, and rather than castigating or upbraiding Thomas, recognizing his genius, Louis sent his scribes to have Thomas dictate, which ultimately became probably part of the Sumer Contra Gentiles.
So in the spirituality of the Dominicans was holding up all of Existence as being illuminated and proceeding from the divine creator, not some sort of Demiurge or evil demigod.
And, and thus, that's why you have this It was considered such a serious heresy, thus the violence that took place in the Albigensian Crusades.
But Dominic's response and the Dominican response to that was, don't do the violence thing, that's just going to perpetuate it, because you're fighting people who are almost masochists in a way.
No, embrace the poverty that they're embracing, but say to them that they in themselves, both body and soul are of great dignity.
Sorry, whose line was that?
It was the early Dominican line, so Dominic himself, and then, you know, Jordan of Saxony and the early Dominicans going into Aquinas.
You see, that would seem to me to be truer to the kind of behavior that is demanded by the Gospels.
than so much of the history of the Church.
I mean, you think about the centuries that Protestants and Catholics fought one another, or if they weren't fighting one another, they were persecuting people within their countries for heresies.
Nowhere in the Gospels do I get any sense that this is what Jesus would have wanted, that he wanted Doctrinal correctness, that he wanted heresies rooted out.
Obviously, I don't want to pin all the blame on you as a Catholic, but how do you feel about the history of the church?
Can you see any justification for that kind of stuff?
I see.
Is there justification for the use of violence in the defense of orthodoxy?
Troubling question.
We have to I think situate that in the sense that if indeed we have, if there's a heresy, and the remedies or the remedial actions for that of course are, especially from my perspective as an anarchist and libertarian too, and I think an authentic Catholic vision would have this, is that you cannot aggress upon that individual.
Now, what does that mean in terms of aggress?
Well, one, we have to keep in mind that they considered these, in terms of heresy and its spread from the earliest days of the Church, as not just simply a disease of the body, but a disease of the soul.
If you were to embrace a heresy or an alternative church, as in the Babylonian and Avignon Captivities, you're imperiling your eternal salvation.
So, should all effort outside of violent coercion be taken?
I think that's true.
I think that's what a church ought to do.
Preaching, and as the Dominicans did in other mendicant orders, like the Franciscans, take on the mode of living in humility.
Of the individuals who you're trying to convert and persuade them, as the great saints always did, the times when there were exigencies of violence and war, I think what we often conflate to is that we're told by our overseers in academia that the wars of religion, the Inquisition, these were all religious wars as opposed to secular wars.
But if you just scratch the surface, there are much more political, social, economic aims and motivations among the baddies than some sort of doctrinal purity at heart.
Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking, look, I'm quite into the Bible at the moment.
And, you know, I read a bit of the New Testament, a bit of the Old Testament every day.
And I was reading one the other day, the parable where They talk about the power of the tares, I think it is, where all the bad stuff is growing up through the good wheat.
And the only way of sorting it out is after the harvest, when it gets separated.
I'm kind of with Jesus on that one.
I think let God decide.
I don't think it's up to... You and I know the kind of people who rise to power within the church hierarchy.
And they ain't the kind of people who should be in charge of doctrinal correctness.
Right, and all the more, and this is sort of the Hilaire Belloc line, is for centuries and centuries, could you think of another institution so poorly run by such nefarious characters, and yet it still not only survives but persists, and I would argue at its core is the efficacious, most efficacious, beautiful, one holy catholic and apostolic church of which
The Apostle John and Polycarp and Ignatius, that is to say, Antioch, not Loyola.
But he was a goody too, although he founded a bad thing.
Ignatius, not Loyola?
Loyola was a good guy.
He was a crypto-Jew.
That was part of the Jewish infiltration of the Catholic Church.
Most of the founders of the Jesuits were crypto-Jews.
What was the other term for them?
They were Jews who hid their Jewish identity.
To avoid persecution.
I haven't gone down the early Jesuit rabbit hole, but even more like Francis Xavier.
Francis Xavier going off to India and China as a missionary.
I think the Jesuits are so incredibly dodgy.
They should be suppressed now.
Well, what God's going to do to them, I dread to think, but it's going to be pretty medieval in the modern sense of the word.
I get you.
Well, yes, and of my opinion, there are actually, in my experience, some good Jesuits, but there's no Jesuit in between.
You think there are?
I don't know.
You know, I worry about that.
I think that a bit like in the Talmud, a bit like in the Koran and the Hadiths, that They are enjoined to be good liars.
It's part of the deal about being a Jesuit.
So I think anyone who claims to know what a Jesuit is thinking, or who he is, or what he stands for genuinely in his secret heart.
There's an inherent mendacity there.
It comes with the territory.
Isn't that what all the training's about?
I mean, you know, maybe I should get a Jesuit on to defend it, but he'd only use Jesuitical sophistry, wouldn't he, to try and win me round?
They are good at that, and then he'd ask you for a contribution, because they're very good at that, too.
Shakedowns.
I mean, look, you and I are both down the rabbit hole, Gary.
I think we can probably agree that every institution has been infiltrated to the point where It's pretty much worthless.
I mean, which is to say, I see, take the Catholic Church, I see wonderful Catholics, I see the Latin Mass seems to be a kind of last, it's the sort of the helms deep of true Catholicism and true faithfulness.
And the Eastern Rites too, the Eastern Rites, whether we're talking Byzantine or Chaldean or what have you.
What, the Eastern Orthodox?
No, no, no.
The Eastern Rites who are still allied with the Church.
Oh, I see.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, the same applies to... You've got good people in the various branches of the Orthodox Church.
You've got, I guess, good people in the Anglican Church and so on.
But they've all been infiltrated.
Every institution, it's like...
But where I take my solace as a Catholic is going back to the Fathers of the Church and reading their... One of the problems and most difficult things I have in any ecumenical discussion or just banting about differences between whether it's historical Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, or what have you, is that what continues to allow me to persist as a Catholic is again that
I'm affirmed in Scripture that, as Augustine said, at its core, the soul of the Church is the Holy Spirit.
And that's why in Protestantism, and even it was indicative when you had that wonderful episode with Alistair Williams, and I was, the one area that I was just taken aback by and sort of took my breath away as a Catholic as you guys were rapsing poetic about this and waxing poetic about it, was that, especially within Anglicanism, there seems to be this very low Christology and especially an absent Neumatology, which is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the Church.
Now, of course, Right, so whereas we believe in the activity and the guiding force of the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity, and it's very high on our list.
It should be higher, and the Orthodox oftentimes do a better job at neumatology than we do.
It's just, whether we have Hori Bergoglio, or we have a Borgia, or whoever is the Pope, Yeah, yeah.
this, the ecclesia or community guards the authentic interpretation of sacro doctrina.
Yeah, yeah.
I know what you're saying, that it's certainly, for quite some time within the Anglican Church, the Church of England, there's this sense that the kind of spiritual stuff is a bit embarrassing.
We'd rather not talk about that.
Yeah, it's a flourish.
It's an unnecessary flourish.
We go to church, but it's for traditional reasons.
It's to keep the old traditions alive.
It's not because, you know, we believe in all that awkward stuff about the virgin birth.
A few years ago you had the Bishop of The Bishop of Durham, I think the Bishop of Durham, talking about this, saying that, you know, he had doubts about the virgin birth and about the... It's quite fashionable, I think, for senior clergy to sort of talk about
Scripture as if it's kind of it's metaphorical, you know, and they apologize and he of course he wasn't Jesus wasn't really casting out demons.
He was you know He was curing mental illness.
It's just that the terms have changed and But I've I've been writing a book I still haven't gotten it.
I'm on the last few chapters.
I'm getting there.
But it keeps mutating as my faith grows or becomes more nuanced, let's say.
My final chapters.
It's getting a lot more interesting.
I'm glad I'm keeping it.
I'm glad I'm delaying it.
It wasn't ready to be finished until until later.
Um, if you know what I mean, I didn't I didn't know enough I didn't and now I do kind of more or less know enough and One of the things I've talked about is this these schisms between the different branches of of Christianity and My my working working view is that
Every branch of the Church has its strengths.
I think you can't beat the Orthodox people for their kind of mysticism.
You go into an Orthodox service and the incense, and I know you Catholics have incense as well, but there's a mystery there in the Orthodox Church, which I think is unbeatable.
And then You Catholics, you're the mother church, you've got the colour, you've got the kitsch, you've got the smells and bells, you've got all that history.
You like to think that you are the original church.
And then you've got We've Anglican Church, you've got great architecture, you've got, you know, the sort of tea with the vicar at the village fete, and, you know, judging the marriage competition, but also you've got the Book of Common Prayer, which is, I think, pretty matchless.
You've got the Book of Common Prayer, I think, is the best, and then you've got the The King James Bible, which is pretty good, although it's a bit flawed.
And Coverdale, translation of the Psalms.
I like the Coverdale.
I think Coverdale's got the edge.
But I've had Calvinists on the podcast, and I went to a really good church service the other day, Reformed Baptist, and it was just… I loved it because they were absolutely, really serious about the Bible.
They got it, they were into it.
There was no politics, no waffle about current affairs, no attempt to make this stuff seem relevant to the young audience.
It was just, it was on the money.
But then I've been to good Anglican services where, again, they've had the qualities I look for, you know, so there's good and there's bad in all of them.
I don't like the, I think there's a degree of smugness among the Catholics about, you know, that you have about being the Mother Church and yet at the same time you don't need to read the Bible because it's all taken care of by the Magisterium.
And And then at the other end of the spectrum, and I really try and fight this on my Telegram channel, I've got this really annoying sort of Christians who mention Jesus and how much Jesus has entered their heart and like they know what Christianity is and Jesus, Jesus.
I was thinking, oh, just like, you know, tone it down a bit.
We believe too, you're not the only one.
Sorry, that was a bit of a rant.
No, that's okay.
I liked it.
It was good.
We have groups like here, like Crusaders for Christ, or people just be very aggressive with the one saved, always saved.
Once I whip out the old Catholic identity card, they tend to run away.
Well, they'll throw in the whole Mark of the Beast and the Pope is the Antichrist, which at this particular juncture is a little bit hard to defend.
Is there a smugness?
Well, first of all, I challenge on the idea that there's even a historical basis for I don't know any prelate of prominence or authority that has told Catholics not to read the Bible.
No, it's not that you've been told not to, it's just that... Look, I've got a friend who's a Catholic, and he boasted about it.
He said, what do you realise, we Catholics, we don't read the Bible.
Oh yeah, yeah, well, you're a friend.
Pick better friends, especially Catholic ones.
No, in fact, yeah, to a degree, although again, that comes from that ecclesial vision wherein we are, I think there oddly is a humility that is required.
Along with a desire to not be seen as ordinary in the heart of being a Catholic.
You have to be defined a bit, especially in a modern secular world.
It was just a point of history.
It was your lot that tortured and killed Tyndall for translating the Bible into Into English, or printing the Bible, I forget which.
And she deserved it, James.
No, I'm just... You know, that's the thing.
Why did they do that?
They didn't want ordinary folk to read the Bible in the vernacular.
They wanted the priests to be... Well, but they couldn't read the Bible in the... I mean... And moreover, it's a misnomer too.
I mean, look back at in the age of, we're speaking of Erasmus and the like, where supposedly Protestants launched these accusations about Catholics not wanting, or the church officially not wanting Catholics to read the Bible, wherein you have all these congregations of lay people like or the church officially not wanting Catholics to read the Bible, wherein you have all these congregations of lay And these were well-educated individuals.
There were also communities springing up in England, in your own England as well.
Wherein, on the dawn of the Reformation, they're reading the Bible, they're actually going out and preaching.
So they, and there's no, there was some concern about what they were preaching, but as long as they were deemed as Orthodox in keeping with the fundamentals of the faith, they were allowed to continue on to do so.
Yeah, sure, Erasmus caught some flack for doing his own translation.
But I was going, before the whole Tyndale thing mentioned, and you could even say the same for Well, Wycliffe was persecuted in the same way, and then of course Jan Hus burned at the stake at the Council of Constance.
Is that there's a consideration even among Catholics today, I think of the Catholicism is a humility that I can't interpret on my own in a subjective way, despite the census fidelium that might have been garnered for me.
All of the contradictions, all of the nuance, all of the... Is it in keeping, in my interpretation, in keeping with the Ecclesia Dei, the church and community of God, as informed and enlightened by the Holy Spirit and the apostles and tradition, or is it not?
And so, yeah, I mean...
It's with great sadness that I think of the, again, the modes of violence that were used, and there should have been alternatives, but these were people that were desperate to snuff out what they deemed to be an existential and eternally existential threat to the salvation of souls.
Yeah, I you know, I mean you you kind of make excuses for them, but I don't think it's I don't think really I don't forgive them for this.
I just don't think they got this is the problem that I think when you hear Atheists Come up with their atheism 101 fifth form lines about why they're not Christians, and they go, you know, well, more people are being killed by religion, you know, and stuff.
Smart move.
This is the kind of stuff they come up with.
They say, well, look at this.
Look at the Catholics doing this, and look at the Protestants doing that.
And you're thinking, what?
Yeah, they were Catholics and Protestants.
They weren't Christians, really.
It wasn't Christianity that they were representing.
It was political factions.
Which is which is which is different.
So yeah, I mean, I know why they did it.
I can rationalize their stupidity, but it doesn't mean I can go.
Oh, yeah.
Well, that makes sense.
You know got to feel they were being reasonable within their own terms.
No, they would just.
Twats!
Yeah, absolutely twats.
And then beyond that, and they were both on the Catholic-Protestant side, and then before that in conflict with... I mean, think about the infighting between the Anabaptists and your ordinary Lutheran, your early Lutherans.
I mean, they were just the savage treatment of Mennonites in the early Anabaptist communities.
I mean, the poor Anabaptists early on in the Reformation, they were catching it from both sides.
So, all of these were, but yet again, you know, thinking about the alternative, ulterior motivations is important to understand.
I mean, how much is a man like Richelieu engaged in a holy war to affect some dominance of the Church for the salvation of souls?
The factor is zero there.
He's a political actor.
So, yeah, it's lamentable, to be sure.
But again, I mean, just to be, and this, I hate that term, whataboutism, because I think it's just a means by which to evade conversation about relative comparisons.
I mean, when we're thinking about deaths by the wars of religion, I mean, It's estimated by even liberal counts that the entire Inquisition is responsible for over four centuries, about 4,000 to 3,500 deaths over four centuries.
That's a bad 10 minutes at the Marne.
Yeah, yeah, we're sure, we're sure.
And what the secular progressive atheists who are the antagonists of church and just overall Christianity and even religious practice, they never take into consideration the inherent religiosity and worship of the state that allowed such catastrophes.
Of a magnitude far exceeding that of all the wars of religion.
So, you know, they can spare me about, you know, the goody-two-shoes and judgmental things about the supposed wars of religion being motivated by Christian doctrine.
And they'll never bring up something like in the Middle Ages, how the Church efforted and Christian communities were enlightened by the Christian message of peace, that the peace of God and the truths of God was an effort to regulate and quell the violence among Christian entities.
Yeah.
Um, Gary, can I just put you on pause a second?
I realize it's it's It's tea time, and I haven't got a cup of tea, and I'm English, and I don't want to leave it too much later.
I'm just going to get my son to make me a cup of tea that will fuel me.
So I'm just going to ask him, and I'll come back.
Of course, James, just like your thirst.
My tea's on its way.
Gary, am I correct in thinking that one of the reasons that America is so weird is
Because of the first people that came over that you that you were colonized by these religious extremists and there is that there's a strand in America, which America's in constant denial of this, but it's obvious to anyone from from Europe and heaven knows Europe's got its problems.
I mean really really awful in many ways, but The thing that's always struck me about America is that it tells you that it's the land of the free and the home of the brave and all that, and it pretends that it's like, you know, a sort of model of...
Democracy and well, yeah, yeah freedom freedom, you know, don't tread on me and all that.
Yeah, and yet it's full of the worst kind of safety Nancy ism regulatory overkill.
It's lawyered up to the most.
I mean every other person you meet is a lawyer.
Every educated person is basically a lawyer who's probably done time in the military and there's something really weird about that.
I used to think it was kind of cool.
And now I mean not the lawyer part that everyone everyone had served and stuff and now I think no, it's a it's a it's a kind of it's a criminal Empire.
Which uses its military might to to oppress and control and rape and pillage at the world.
That's the same time.
It's not even good to its own people because you fall through a tiny crack and you're in this barbaric Prison system where there's no justice and it loves its rules and regulations and it really is.
I mean, I hate to use the word Darwin because I don't believe in Darwin but but but it is survival of the fittest and if you're not kind of in in the among the rich then you just get you might as well.
You're a nothing.
Is that all because of a legacy of the religious freaks that came there in the first place?
I think the seed was laid there and it produced a lot of tears among the good plant.
So I go back to the famous speech by Winthrop, who was the first among the Puritans, and he's defining what civil versus true liberty is.
And he's saying, essentially, liberty is Is being obedient and internalizing the dictates of the religious and secular authorities that happen to be in power.
Oh, it's like the Führer-Princip, knowing what the Führer thinks.
Yeah, no, it's absolutely true.
And then so, of course, natural liberty, of course, where we would say, oh, natural liberty, unalienable rights, something along the lines of Locke or whoever, of the French philosophes.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That is, that's what's leading to Salem.
That is what's leading to witchcraft.
So you have to, Alter.
Again, this is very, I see in Puritanism, a lot of the, of Catharism, you know, this detesting of the body, detesting of created material nature, and thus there are the elite.
Among them, Winthrop and his band of merry masochists, who are going to go out and direct for you what is indeed in your natural best interest.
And that is, in many ways, the disposition that the American political and corporate elite take toward their customers, consumers, clients, and then, of course, we the plebes.
Sorry, how does that relate to Winthrop?
Oh, just that he characterized natural liberty, that is to say, how we would classically define liberty as being a mode of election toward excellence as we deploy our facilities and capacities in the ways that we judge most advantageous to ourselves.
And he says that's of the devil.
And what civil, what real Liberty is, is what the elites of the puritanical community in his case, but ultimately the powers that be defined for you is the freedom of excellence within.
Well, but it's a bit like that, that thing that some of us don't like in Romans where, where Paul seems to be saying that you should, you should, you should, but why in my view, you should, I know people have different interpretations that you should bow to tyranny that you should, you shouldn't rock the boat.
You should.
Oh, We did a whole podcast episode on Romans 13, 1 Peter, about this.
I think actually Paul's saying something much more cryptic, but more in keeping with the period.
And that is, you know who the goodies are?
They're the ones that the baddies are putting up on a cross.
They're the ones that are there, like James being thrown from a parapet in Jerusalem.
And the worst thing that the state can do to you is incorporate you into its being, into its orbit.
Make you a governor because then you're the corruption of your soul is is eternal.
I'm going going back to the those early settlers.
I have you it it's fairly clear to me that That America is continuation City of London.
It's the deep state, the rulers of the darkness of this world.
You've got control of America and got control of England and probably still run the world to a greater or lesser extent.
The Puritans clearly weren't the representatives of that, were they?
They were just the kind of the initial invading force.
And then when did the kind of the sort of Freemasonic city sort of Illuminati types start moving into America across?
Yeah, I don't know when it became much more of a, the Mason movement became less, it was much more transformative and evident.
I can't, in fact, it would make sense that it's, as a secret society, something that we can't put our finger on, that here's where the turnabout took place.
It's evident it has to be started before we have the Constitution being formed.
I mean... Yeah.
And beyond that, you know, when you're talking about all of the Masonic connections and influences of the Framers, what...
I've always taken from what I emphasize in my book of American history and within my own teaching of American history is how deeply embedded in the Masonic mission in the United States was to root out any sort of notion of organizing society among local governance, along local governance governmental lines.
And then their palpable detestation and enmity that they directed toward the initial constitution, which people, of course, forget about the United States, which was the best arrangement, and that was the Articles of Confederation.
So this desire to centralize and then branch out from there.
What did the Articles of Confederation say?
Well, it was an extraordinarily loose union.
It was a type of marriage of convenience that was ratified in the midst of the Revolutionary War and essentially gave, it was a true confederation or confederacy in that the states were sovereign or attempting to gain their sovereignty.
And as a result, on matters that would pertain to the entirety of the eastern seaboard colonies, Outside of their effort against the British, nothing really unified them culturally, politically, sociologically.
They were essentially free to be solitary and independent states.
And that was the arrangement that was most, I wish, would have been kept.
Yeah, I mean, I now start to realize that Even the people I thought of were goodies, as goodies were probably not goodies.
I mean, Thomas Jefferson, was he a goody, really?
No.
Really, people forget how much of a cuck simp he became for Hamilton.
I mean, Hamilton makes demands, a central bank, extremely loose interpretation of the Constitution, and Thomas Jefferson falls all over himself when, I think of, did you ever watch that show The Sopranos?
It was big in the United States.
Yeah, I love The Sopranos, yeah.
Yeah, it's like Hamilton was Tony, and then Jefferson was the guy who was always trying to just concede and give in to Tony in every circumstance and situation.
Actually, I think of him more so, Jefferson, as being one of Tony's goomars, you know, like his whores.
When Tony's Done seeing the usefulness of the relationship, he sends them a little trinket.
You know, whether in the case of the analogy would be, okay, we'll put the capital along the Potomac so it doesn't have direct banker influence in New York.
And Jefferson falls over himself to take that concession.
I should have guessed that any politician who has a musical written about him must be a Ronan.
So he was terrible.
Alexander Hamilton, was he?
In every way.
He was a prodigious genius, don't get me wrong.
So was Benjamin Franklin, who was also a Satanist, wasn't he?
Oh, to be sure.
Franklin, more so than anyone, really benefited from the elite set-up.
People think of his intentions as being entirely noble.
in the revolutionary era and the constitutional era.
Of course the first concession he won from Congress was to be the printer of the new bills that would be issued by the Congress and other missives.
So he was in on the scam from the beginning.
What do you mean?
He controlled the press or what?
Yes, essentially he became the de facto government printer.
Right, right, right, yeah.
Hamilton was, and there's a great book about how Alexander Hamilton screwed up America by a historian I greatly admire named, and he's pretty much down the rabbit hole, although he's more of a traditional Southern historian, named Brian McClanahan out of South Carolina, and whether it's the Whiskey Rebellion or whether it was defrauding farmers and Revolutionary War veterans and essentially handing over a great reallocation of wealth from the poor in America To the rich.
He basically was defrauding, in many ways, all the poor for his preferred banker class in the East.
The Civil War, obviously it wasn't about slavery.
It was about something else.
It was about finance, wasn't it?
Tax.
Finance.
What party, what political entity would have the reins of the national government so as to impose its economic and political gerrymandering system upon the entire nation?
That's what it was about.
And Lincoln was the chief among the gerrymanderers.
He was the chief among, you know, he made his wealth and his name by representing railroad companies, massive railroad companies.
And if you look at the earliest Documents emerging from Ripon, Wisconsin, where the Republican Party was founded in 1854.
This is a free soil party.
It's not an abolitionist party.
Moreover, it was about tariff policy and how to allocate governmental subsidies to the benefit of industrialists and the financial class within the North to the detriment of the South.
Right.
So it's about vested interests.
It's a bit like the Catholic Church today.
Yeah, there's a lot of resonance there.
There's a lot of resonance.
The proof's in the pudding, James, about when we have these insipid and puerile debates in the United States and even outside about the cause of the Civil War.
Take a look at the pieces of legislation that were approved by the Northern Congress, left unfettered and out of control because the Southern delegates are all out of Washington.
They pass every Of their wish list bills that they possibly could the Pacific Railway Act hands over gigantic land and cash subsidies to railroads.
I mean, the Natural Currency Act, legal tender laws, all the things that were key to ensuring a A departure toward fiat currency and promissory notes away from the gold standard so as to engage in war for the profiteers that were engaged and connected with the Republican Party.
All these pieces of legislation were approved in immense short order.
People wonder, what is the Congress doing in 1862 as this existential fight with the South is taking place to pass a railroad bill for a transcontinental railway?
Of course, it's to their own, it redounds always to their own economic benefit.
Thank you.
He's given me, it's nice having a cup of tea, but he's given me one of the mugs I don't like.
Oh no, it's very landscape-y.
No, it's got a thick lip, I don't like, I don't like, I like thin...
I would assume that all of your mugs had fox on it and it has images of you on your steed chasing the fox.
It's got deer on it.
We do hunt deer but generally it's called stalking.
Stalking?
There's so many deer around here, you could just go outside your house and take one down.
I have to say, I mean, that's not quite as good a cup of tea as I could have made myself.
Is he not a great tea maker, your son?
Yeah, he can be.
I think he's just eyes off the ball.
So have you ever been down the rabbit hole?
I don't expect you to have been down all the rabbit holes.
The Civil War didn't really happen, to the degree that we're told.
There's actually very little evidence that these great battles happened, or is that...?
No, I mean, I haven't been down the rabbit hole, but it's one, that one, but I'm You know, willing to explore it, I just, it would be quite the, it would be quite the feat, although that's, this is the weakest of arguments when we're talking about conspiracy.
Yeah, it is.
And then you have to, as you do so rationally in these regards, you know, you always ask the question, qui bono?
Who would benefit from that?
I know, I just, I find that it is in keeping To and within the historical evidence that I've read and uncovered and studied that there was an immense amount of animus.
Puritanical in nature, and in the North acting as a destructive colonizer toward the South.
A people who Northerners had an immense amount of hatred for.
I mean, the volumes of Northerners talking about, and the fact that people forget that all these abolition societies, even famous figures like William Lloyd Garrison, And especially the suffragettes, when they talk about... They were a fake thing.
Everything we talked about suffragettes is a lie.
There's a great book by Cary Gress, an American historian, talking about how they were, mostly the suffragettes and even the whole Seneca Falls thing, was all about sorcery and witchcraft.
So there's a rabbit hole there.
Well, you see, I tried to get that, the woman who wrote another book about feminism, occult feminism, Rachel Wilson.
Okay.
But she keeps not coming on the podcast, which is annoying.
Yeah, that is annoying.
Because she's made the connection between feminism and Well, demon worship, basically, and the whole elevation of the sort of the vengeful woman, demon goddess, and all that kind of stuff that appears in our culture now, and the female pop stars.
Whether it's in the form of Gaia, or what have you?
Yeah, yeah.
It's very dodgy.
Yeah.
I mean, I've read some really good works, historical in nature, about how people forget how after the war and during Reconstruction, and we do have some physiological evidence of this, is that Southern men started to shrink in size.
Their life expectancy plummeted.
One scholar who I've read talks about the lack of salt.
cause all of these terrible diseases to the point where northerners, northerners would make fun of in like cartoons and like how southerners would be like kind of limping around.
Well, because they, they, they have hookworm because their immune systems were so depleted because of malnutrition.
And why were they deprived of salt?
Oh, it was purposeful.
Like the northerner, the after the war, the north wanted to punish not just and even of course, during the war, punish the population as much as possible.
And that stratagem of utter humiliation led to terrible disease and health effects.
So you mean they couldn't get hold of salt from... I mean, I don't know how easy it is to get hold of salt in the South if... Right.
It was easy enough to starve them of salt, was it?
Yes.
Yeah.
And then, of course, the depravity of making fun of Southerners.
Also, there's a lot of talk in Northern newspapers about how the Southerners were suffering from things like dyslexia or mental retardation and an inability to speak with any alacrity or speed.
And that's because they're deplete of basic nutrients.
Oh, how horrible.
Yeah.
How horrible.
Yeah.
We see it again and again.
I won't ask you outside your theatre of operations, as it were, because I think America is actually interesting enough in itself.
There's so much about American history which is not feel-good history.
What you did or your government did to the Indians, the Red Indians, for example.
Yes.
Extraordinary.
I mean that is genocide, isn't it?
Of course it was genocide.
And what's all the more insidious and deplorable is just a few years ago, I was able to travel to South Dakota to go see there's a gigantic monument.
It's actually larger than our Mount Rushmore with the four President, dictator, kleptocrats on there.
But it's dedicated to the famous Suu Kyi crazy horse.
And they have a laser light show.
So we went out to this monument.
And in the middle of the laser light show, they start playing a song.
It was this stupid song, I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free.
In celebration of crazy horse, this is a man who was gunned down, hunted his people.
hunted down from their tribal and ancestral lands.
And then he died by being fooled into negotiation with the treaty.
And he was a bunch of Union troops went into his structure and shot him in the stomach and let him bleed out from his abdomen.
So we have this, is there anything more insidiously and demonically like imperialist than an American who wants to transform a victim of American imperialism and genocide into a proud patriot?
It was just revolting to me.
Yeah.
Who's buying this?
And of course, who's buying it are all the multitudes of kids who are in public schools who have to stand to pledge their allegiance to a flag that declares that the country's indivisible, under God, written by a socialist, by the way.
I mean, it's revolting.
There's almost nobody you can trust.
I was thinking, you know, like a lot of people who've gone down the rabbit hole, they try and cling on to vestiges of their past belief system in the hope that there's still some decency, at least some of the public figures they were brought up to admire stand the test.
I don't think any of them do.
I was thinking about, you know, one of my copes used to be Ronnie Reagan.
Ronnie Reagan was supposed to be the exception to the fact that all American presidents are corrupt and, you know, at best, horns of the deep state but then you discover that i mean he was in in engaged in the same kind of child sex stuff that they all they all seem to be engaged in he his name cropped up
i think on one of one of the um the podcasts i did with um jesse sabota who's a former you know mother of darkness and And you look at Nancy Reagan and I think she was almost certain, I bet if you googled Nancy Reagan and look to see whether she ever appeared in purple with pearls, which she almost certainly did, which means that she's the member of the Order of Melchizedek, which is an inversion of the true
You know about the Order of Melchizedek?
No, tell me a little bit more.
I've heard of it, but you have to inform me more about it.
Melchizedek is one of the greatest figures of the Old Testament.
Well, indeed.
In Psalm 110, it says something like, Thou art forever a priest after the Order of Melchizedek.
And this is basically God addressing Well, I think probably Jesus.
It's one of the prophetic Psalms.
But the Satanists have now got their own order of Melchizedek, which is a female order.
And the uniform of it is purple and pearls.
Oh.
And, yeah.
Have you uncovered what they're engaged in?
Are they just doing the Satanist thing, or what are they up to?
That covers quite a multitude of sins, doesn't it?
Doing the Satanist thing.
You make out like it's like, oh what, so they're into football?
ball right exactly yeah no that I mean they're fairly serious in their commitment to things diabolical matters diabolical yeah So they're really into voting and democracy then.
I think the thing is, Gary, that we've reached the point as we approach end times where the rulers of the darkness of this world don't even care about how blatant they're now being.
Because even though there are people like us who are calling them out, we're such a minority.
We really are.
We're a kind of niche activity.
We're just like a kind of There's sort of a pimple that appears that you can put a bit of spot cream on and it'll go away.
I think you're giving us too much credit because a pimple has to be dealt with.
I think they're just so dismissive of us.
That indifference is stinging.
Have you ever seen the movie A Very Long Engagement?
It was a French film starring Audrey Tattoo.
Is that a recommend?
Oh, it's definitely recommended.
I love it.
The cinematography itself and the realistic battle scenes along the front are wonderful.
World War I?
World War I, yes.
What's it called?
A Very Long Engagement.
In French, it's Un si long dimanche des fiancés.
Okay.
It's a wonderful, it's kind of a mystery wrapped up in historical fiction.
It's really well, well done and great actors, tattoos excellent in it.
But there's this one scene where they're on the front and it's near Verdun or what have you and they're all sitting on picnic benches, all these French soldiers.
And I always think of us when in the scene because there's one French soldier who's read a little bit of I don't know.
Let's say Angles, okay?
And although he's deluded because socialism sucks and all the like, but he's convinced that this war is a war of the industrialists and we're all being led to the slaughter.
But in the movie, the narrator says his passion was not met by his ability to articulate.
So he gets up and he kind of stumbles, and although he's passionate in trying to call these French soldiers who are just going to go off into the meat grinder, saying, this is a war of the capitalists, this is a war of the industrialists, we are pawns in their games, and they all look at him for a moment, they're smoking their government-issued cigarettes, and they have their hands on their rifles with their bayonets, and they just look at him, and they know what's out there, but they look at him and they just go, yeah, right, and they just laugh him off.
I think we're that soldier with a much better message, but it's like that idea of when, this is actually Ignatius Loyola, he has this early image of the love of God being like a sponge, so when we cry, and our tear falls upon the sponge, he absorbs it, whereas Satan, it's like a stone,
And so there's a famous painting of Loyola with a sponge and a stone and his tears falling.
And I feel as though, no matter how golden, no matter how convincing or persuasive, we might be, on a 100 point scale, convincing and persuasive and illuminating, they're still not going to accept it because it's one, not convenient, and it's two, disruptive.
Yeah.
Do you despair in that way, as I do?
Well, I don't despair because I think ultimately this is part of God's plan.
Sure.
But I realise that that's anathema to non-Christians because they think, oh, what, they're not going to do anything, it's going to sit on their arses while the world collapses.
It's not that, it's just like when you see, I mean I'm doing my bit, I do what I can, but we're working against Satan here, and Satan's pretty, he's pretty, I don't know, next level bad.
Yeah, next level bad.
He's been working at this for a long time, and he's got a lot of minions.
That's why I found your episode with Ollie Damagard, where he kept saying when you're like, well aren't you concerned about this, or that your message isn't falling on open ears here.
He said, "I don't care." He kept saying, "I don't care.
I don't care." That was so edifying to me because he was just so convinced of his innate necessity.
It's a need, it's a hunger that's insatiable within him just to spout the truth.
And come what may, if there are If there are people with ears willing to hear, to quote our Lord, then may they come.
I found that to be very heartening.
Just going back to the point about me wanting to be a monk on Mount Athos and stuff.
I've got sort of mixed feelings about the role of monks, particularly monks actually.
I think in some ways it's quite easy to retreat from the world and devote yourself to... it's almost a cop-out and while I accept that prayers are good and important in the fight, you know, in helping the kind of... those in the spiritual realm do their thing, I think it's very important that
Some of us spend time in the world and speak to people within the world, spread the word, and if they're not interested, you shake the dust off your shoes and move on.
That's the deal.
I don't think that God actually wants me to go to a monastery.
I think he wants me doing what I'm doing.
Especially with a family.
Well, apart from that.
Apart from that.
Yeah.
Apart from that.
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
Your son's not going to be delivering tea to Mount Athos for you.
No, I don't think, to be honest, I don't think my children would particularly care whether I went to Mount Athos or not.
I don't think...
You know, I'm not a... One-way flight to Athens for Dad for a birthday.
Well, it would be... Is there an airport in Thessaloniki?
I think it would be Thessaloniki.
Oh yeah, Thessaloniki, yeah.
But yeah, I don't think my children would be particularly bothered if I...
If I disappeared for a monastery for the rest of my life, you know?
Yeah, no more making dad tea.
No, I'm kind of like an irritant, like a sort of farting Labrador, you know?
The Socratic gadfly in your house?
Well, I'm just, you know, like, me with my crazy ideas and I'm a bit embarrassing and... Oh, can I share with you something too?
I was just out to dinner with my parents and we were talking about this freighter Going in Baltimore.
Oh, the accident, you mean?
Yeah, of course, the accident.
So, of course, my parents, who, God bless them, I almost envy them, they're disengaged, right?
They're in retirement and the like, and they're talking about, oh, what a tragedy, and I'm going, I just...
In the most loving way I just yelled out normies like that and my kids all started laughing and they're like you called grandma and grandpa normies.
I said that well that's what they are if they think that that was just purely an accident and a happenstance.
Coincidence of sort.
So your children know what a normie is?
No my children...
You know, I have open debates with my son.
He's 15.
Alright, that's a good age.
I'm taking him down the rabbit hole with me in a lot, although he's a foil in many ways.
I'm sad to say he's reluctant to admit that the moon landing didn't take place.
But at least he's receptive.
He's one of those moon believing crazies, moon landing believers.
They are off the scale mad.
Oh, absolutely.
To be sure.
And then, yeah, your episode with Bart Sabrell was excellent to that end.
But, and then, yeah, I mean, my other, my girls who are younger, they're a bit more into like, I've been, I share with them distilled
History and and they always know dad's like the contrarian or the the dissident among normie People in academia, so they're more willing and accepting of it and my son Simon who's who's seven He likes to he said well if At one time I called him a baller because although I'm I'm not convinced I'm like you where you are agnostic on the flat earth thing I'm I'm just want to hear I want to learn and
Um, but sometimes I'll joke around with people.
It's flat.
Gary, it's flat.
Are you there?
I thought you weren't there yet.
Don't tell anybody.
It's out now.
No, no, they won't listen to this bit.
Okay.
Oh, okay, good.
Well, I tell you what, I...
I had an occasion, I was sitting, I sat on an airplane, and I sat next to a guy who was like a long-term pilot.
And I just started asking him, and I'm like, why don't you fly over the Arctic?
Why don't you fly over the Antarctic?
I mean, or even in the circles?
And he gave me this lame excuse about geocoordination.
I'm like, what?
Yeah, geo-coordination.
I'm like, what?
This is so lame!
Why?
That's the thing, the lack of curiosity just bites me in the ass.
Yeah, well, I think it's a safety mechanism that people... It's much, much easier not to go there.
It's one of those, you know, there are certain areas Which one cannot venture into without either getting closed down or written off as a loony or whatever, so most people don't want to go there.
The ice wall ain't just in Antarctica.
Or in Game of Thrones.
It's um, yeah, I, unfortunately, my kids are past the stage where I could, I could, I became red-pilled and white-pilled too late to have any influence on them.
They know their own minds, unfortunately.
I like, I like them when they're young.
I, as you know, when I go riding, whenever the little kids are around, I talk to them about God, and I talk to them about the satanic signs to watch out for in Disney movies.
And it's great.
They absorb it all.
Yeah.
Yeah, they get it.
They don't go, here's this madman talking to us.
I think they get it too because they're experiencing it.
It's not something that's foreign to them.
They see the evil.
They see behind the gilded sheen of pleasantries about sisterhood.
It wasn't even something that I had come to my own conclusion or observation is like in every Disney movie, the parents are eliminated.
Yeah.
And my kids actually came to that conclusion.
They're like, why are all the parents dying?
And the kids are left alone in the wilderness, whether it's an animal that is anthropomorphized... Bambi's mother.
What's that?
Bambi's mother gets shot.
Jumbo's mother, too.
God, you'd almost be thinking that Walt Disney...
The Disney castle based it on the paedophile Satan castle in wherever it was.
Bavaria, right?
Belgium.
Oh yeah.
You'd almost think that there was something dodgy about the guy.
Oh yeah, almost.
In fact, the fact that he's receiving checks directly from Langley in the CIA, right?
And you know that there's the club where you get special access to clubs on Disneyland Premises.
You know what it's called?
Yes.
What is it called?
33 Club.
Oh God.
This is part of the... They're rubbing it in our face.
They love it.
They love it.
That's their... That's their missionary zeal is to just do the inversion thing and rub it in your face.
It has some sort of a cult purpose.
There is...
I mean, karmic, obviously.
They believe that if they tell us what they're doing and we accede to what they're doing, then it makes it legitimate.
But also, it's to do with what the Freemasons call masterful speaking.
It's a sort of test of your ingenuity.
Can you describe what you're doing in plain sight, while at the same time Enabling only initiates of the secret to understand what you're saying while the norm is, as it were.
I assume they play upon your desire to belong and to be initiated, so that's the portal.
Yeah.
I think it's the Jupiter's delight thing.
Mm-hmm.
They get off on it.
They get off on it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Gary, I would go on, but I can see, I'm thinking the light is going to do its flashing thing.
And I always...
You know, towards the end of my podcast, when the light flashes, I always think there's something sort of slightly evil about it.
And I don't like that.
So I want to bring this to an end before it starts doing the evil flashing.
Tell us all about where we can find your... I love rambling by the way.
I hope this was the rambling chat you wanted.
I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I had a wonderful time.
Thank you.
You can come back.
Oh, wonderful.
Well, and you're always welcome on my pod too.
We'd love to have you.
Do you have guests?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah, I'll come.
The young'un, your former pupil.
The young'un, your former pupil.
Yes.
Is he down as far down the rabbit hole as we are here?
He seems quite normie to me.
Well, yeah, on some issues he's kind of normie, but I'll tell you what, on flat earth, he's a dedicated flat earther.
Right, so he's chosen the biggest one.
I don't believe in the moon landing conspiracies or 9-11, but definitely we live on... Oh yeah, he's all on board.
I mean, the stuff that we would just generally accept as absurd, kind of the assassination stuff like that, oh, he's all on board.
But I give him credit.
He, in fact, because I'm still in the relatively agnostic camp on Flat Earth, I Oh, by the way, I wanted to share with you, did you know Lincoln and Darwin were born on the same day?
I didn't know that, what, literally the same day in the same year?
Literally the same day.
I think that's satanic right there.
That is creepy.
Yes.
That gives me the creeps.
It does.
But anyway, so yeah, he's there, but not to belong, he's good, he calls me a rounder.
Okay.
So if he's there, what's he not sound on?
What does he not believe?
Let me think.
Actually, I think he's pretty much right with us.
He loves you.
you and he loved I mean we both have you have the best podcast in the running I mean, and I say that with great effort.
Even better than Joe Rogan?
Oh God, that demoniac.
What an adult, too.
He's just not bright.
He's a woman.
Do you know he's a woman?
Oh, he's a woman.
I've heard thoughts about that.
Who else was it described as who's a woman?
Oh, you know, are you into the Taylor Swift's A Man?
Yeah, obviously.
Duh.
Okay, so that's a little shocking to my daughters, but I haven't shared that with them.
But lovely Michelle Obama is definitely, she's a beautiful woman and I will not have anyone say otherwise.
Of course, and that gigantic piece she's rocking in her lower abdomen has nothing to do with it.
Nothing, just don't look here.
Oh, the Bob Moran, the bloodbath is just...
Unbelievable.
Yeah, he's a genius.
He is a genius.
I was anticipating so much you interviewing him, and then when it finally came, I wasn't productive at work that day at all.
He didn't disappoint, did he?
That's the thing.
I just knew he wasn't going to disappoint.
He's rigorous and witty and just brutal.
Yeah.
Brutal.
He just does that Conan thing with his enemies, you know.
He relishes, what I was thinking about too, that we were talking about defiance as a necessary characteristic of being a good Christian.
He just, he relishes it and sees it as affirmation that he's doing the right thing vis-a-vis the guy upstairs, our Lord, you know.
His cross has been played out and he's just reveling in what he can do to contribute to other people waking up.
Yeah, yeah.
We've got some... We're a small team.
We've got some... We're a crack team.
Yes, that's it.
That's it.
Oh, I know what I meant to ask you before we go.
The Bear.
Do you watch The Bear?
Oh, the Chicago show?
No, I've seen a couple episodes.
I've got mixed feelings about it.
I mean, I like the sort of milieu.
I like the whole restaurant thing.
I think you've got some deeply implausible black characters in it.
I don't like being played, if you know what I mean.
I don't like when something quite naturalistic Then, then does things which are clearly politically correct.
They're in the service of politics rather than art.
And I think it's a shame because I mean, I, it's not that I don't love all the black characters.
They're really, really good.
But I think that there's just, they're just a bit too, too implausibly wonderful.
Right.
They're kind of, they're kind of that trope, the magical Negro that, that, that, that it's just like, They all look, they all look, they resemble Barack Obama and aspire to be just him.
Well, it's not, no, it's even better than that, no, there's the girl who's the super-duper fantastically, she's like, she's got brilliant ideas, she's really, she's good at everything in every way.
And then there's the other guy who's the world's best pudding maker and he experiments in his spare time to make the fantastic puddings.
Desserts, whatever you call them in America.
Do you call them puddings or desserts or what?
Desserts, yeah.
Desserts, okay.
So he sleeps in the restaurant just so he can have the extra time available to experiment and perfect and stuff.
And it's just like... I want to buy into this.
I mean, I think it's really good.
But it's on the Disney Channel as well, which is... I see it on Disney.
Well, to your point though, the main actor His name's Jeremy something, I think.
I like him.
Yes, he's a very good actor.
He's very good.
But he starred in Shameless, which was also based in Chicago.
I hate Shameless.
It was terrible.
It presented Yeah, what was much galling is that no Chicagoan would sit and watch that and say these people are authentically Chicagoan, and it was really off-putting when they would attempt to, and it was obvious that they were just pandering to be authentic, and didn't speak to the true reality of ubiquitous violence.
that often surrounds these and is really a facet of everyday life in these communities.
Well, you see, once you understand that all entertainment is essentially propagandizing on behalf of the elites about their evil master plan, and they're trying to promote a narrative which is deleterious to the interests of civilization and they're trying to promote a narrative which is deleterious to the interests of civilization because they want Mm-hmm.
Then you understand series like Shameless, which is essentially the glorification of antisocial behavior.
And that yes, these people are scrounging off the of the taxpayer and stealing and their foul mouth and, and, but you've got to love them because in their warped way, they kind of love one another.
And they're, they've got this sort of cohesion, which we should admire, except when they're arguing and stuff.
It sort of celebrates... Destitution.
Destitution, yeah.
And moral degradation.
Poverty programming.
Yeah.
And it celebrates immorality.
Yeah.
Which is what they do.
Right.
All the time.
Yeah, the characters never bear any consequences for their abhorrent immorality.
It kind of sloughs off them.
But that's that's that isn't that so much.
I mean you you show me a film where the husband isn't unfaithful to the wife or vice versa or where?
Yeah, or where Bambi doesn't lose his mother.
Yeah, correct.
And the kids aren't... Yeah, I mean... Right, it's just... No, that's terrible.
Oh, you want me to say where people can find me and stuff like that?
I do, yes.
Okay.
So, of course, I host the Hot Water History Podcast that's available on anywhere you can get podcasts, and especially the channels where you can find the great James Delingpole here.
I have my book here, which came out in... Show us, show us your book.
Which is 2022 it's a twist history United States it's revisionist and, well, it gives you a definitely rabbit hole perspective on what is considered.
They regard history and talk here, especially in the States, but around the world, and it just deflates most of the narratives, especially those narratives in which we ought to bow low and kowtow to the they, the authorities, as they've been established, often through very nefarious means.
Set that's a twisted it's entertaining i've been told it's a yeah it's a tom woods i've been on some would show along with me said yeah tom's a wonderful wonderful guy.
And he said it's a he concurred that's a good toilet read so if you're if you're going to loo and have a procrastinate.
We like Toilet Reads.
Yeah, it's a page turner, but it's also, it's got a heavy dose of scholastic, I mean scholarly, historical work in it too, so I think you'll find it interesting.
Well, I've been leafing through it, not on the loo, I have to say, and I like it very much.
Yeah, it's good.
Um, so, um, well, Gary, uh, Gary Richide.
Wonderful.
With your funny pronouncing name and your Chicago backdrop with people walking past, which is quite interesting.
Yes.
Office park.
You won't get, you're not going to get attacked.
I would suspect not, unless they were listening to us.
Are there any safe parts of Chicago?
Oh, there are.
There are some beautiful parts.
Of course, the criminality is leaking very much into those parts now.
Of course it is.
That's what we're seeing, yeah.
Well, don't get killed.
Thank you.
James, you either.
I might get killed by a sheep.
Yeah, I heard about the accident with the horse.
I don't.
You can skip a breath.
Yeah, horses, they break your bones, they break your heart, you know, and that's what they say.
Yeah, wonderful.
Gary, thank you very much.
Thank you, James.
Oh, I haven't done my thing, where I say, if you enjoyed this podcast, which of course you did, obviously you like my podcast, don't forget, I, you get early access to my podcasts.
If you, if you subscribe on Locals, on Substack, I think it's my, probably my favorite, Subscribestar, Patreon, you can, if you don't want to get early access, just want to give me a tip, buy me a coffee, buy me a coffee and remember to support my sponsors.
I mean, they, they, they do good stuff.
They support me, but also I do kind of vet them to make sure that what they, what they're selling is good.
In my view.
Monetary metals, especially, is a revolution in how to save.
Which one?
Monetary metals.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know.
It's clever, isn't it?
And I'll tell you, Jeff Deist is salt of the earth, great people.
Who's Jeff Deist?
He works for Monetary Metals.
Oh, does he?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
I think it's quite clever.
He was the former president of the Mises Institute in Alabama.
Yeah, I suppose gold bugs and gold bugs who work out how to pay interest on gold.
I mean that's they're gonna be They're gonna be based aren't they?
Hey, they have to be let's go back to the golden age.
Yeah.
Yeah Great Gary.
Thanks a lot.
It's been a blessing James.
Thank you.
Pleasure.
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