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Nov. 19, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:38:22

Boyd Haley

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	I love Danny Paul!
	Welcome to The Deling Pod with me, James Delingpole, and I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I really am.
	In fact, I think this week's guest is one of the most important people I'll ever interview because, not least because the subject is so important.
	I'm going to talk about mercury poisoning, mercury toxicity, and it's a joy to have on the podcast Dr. Boyd Haley.
	Dr. Haley, first of all, can I apologise for The fact that our last podcast had to be aborted because I wasn't very good with the sound engineering, and I hope this is going to be better.
	I so enjoyed talking to you the last time, and I'm going to have to ask you to repeat a lot of the stuff that we went through last time.
	But welcome back to The Delling Pod.
	Before we go on, tell us a bit about yourself, about your background and your history.
	Okay, well, you know, I was raised a farm kid, milking their cows in Indiana, southern Indiana, and I got a scholarship to go to Franklin College in Indiana, got my bachelor's degree there, and then the U.S.
	Army decided at that time in 1964 Uh, to send me on a two year vacation.
	Uh, not a very pleasant place and I don't like talking about it very much.
	But, uh, when I got out of that, I did my master's degree at the University of Idaho because I wanted to go someplace quiet and, uh, where there wasn't much, uh, politics going on.
	And so I got my master's there.
	I did my PhD at Washington State, and then I did a two year postdoctoral stint at Yale University College of Pharmacy.
	And that was a start of where I developed the use of a technology called PhotoAffinity Laban, which allowed you to look at the biochemical differences between a normal tissue and a diseased tissue, like an Alzheimer's brain versus a normal brain.
	When I moved to Kentucky, I had a graduate student that went to work at the aging center, and they had an Alzheimer's project.
	And we applied my technology with comparing the bio, looking at the biochemistry of an Alzheimer's disease brain.
	I mean there's no contention about the fact that we found major biochemical abnormalities in the Alzheimer's disease brain versus normal brain or brain with other neurological illnesses like Pick's disease or Parkinson's or whatever.
	So then I decided I would do a search and see what might cause those biochemical differences because Alzheimer's disease has to be an environmental toxicity because you can have two identical twins.
	And this is a study on 200 sets of identical twins from World War II.
	The government followed them, and they identified genetic diseases versus genetic susceptibilities to toxicity, and Alzheimer's fell in that category.
	In other words, if you had a set of twins, they would both of them be more likely to get Alzheimer's disease, but many times one of them would not.
	And that meant that it's just a susceptibility to some toxin that made the one person more likely to have a deteriorated brain.
	And so I looked up what could possibly be that, and at that time people were talking about aluminum.
	Because aluminum in pots and pans and that was a theory by somebody else that aluminum might be causing the Alzheimer's disease because of our change in cookware.
	A lot of aluminum cookware.
	But so I did it.
	I took normal brain and that was, you know, I could identify all the very active nucleotide binding proteins in that brain.
	And then I would add metals to them.
	You know, combinations of metals or just straight metals.
	And what I found was this fell out so simple.
	That the only metal that at the level you would expect to find in the brain that would cause the same biochemical abnormalities if added to a normal brain was mercury.
	And so, you know, what I said at that time is that people that are susceptible to getting Alzheimer's disease should be aware that mercury is very, very toxic to the brain.
	And I published that.
	And that was accepted also in really good journals.
	And then this got me, when I published that, I got associated with a group of people that were very interested in mercury toxicity from dental amalgams.
	It's called the International Academy of Oral and Medical Toxicology.
	And they are dentists and that is an organization made up of people that are MDs and dentists who have had medical problems until they got their dental amalgams removed.
	And their problems started when they put the amalgams in.
	And some of the dentists that are exposed to it on daily vets had brain fog and major problems.
	And so they were very dedicated to the fact that mercury, which is a well-known toxin, ever since the Mad Hatter or Nattas, Alice in Wonderland, people exposed to mercury can become demented.
	And there's denberry shakes, etc., everything that's caused neurologically by breathing mercury vapor.
	And so they called me up and invited me to give a talk.
	And I thought there were a group of toxicologists.
	And I gave a talk about using my technology to show the biochemical effects of mercury exposure to the brain.
	And that got them rolling, and it cost me all of my NIH grants, however.
	I was funded by NIH for about 25 straight years developing these probes that everybody used for a lot of different diseases and a lot of structural biochemical work.
	It's a very elegant process, very difficult probes to make.
	But anyway, when I showed that mercury could take a normal brain, homogenous, and if you added a little bit of mercury to it, make it look like it was just out of an Alzheimer's patient, They took my grants away.
	They triaged them.
	I mean, they wouldn't even evaluate them.
	And I thought that was just...
	Really strong feelings because the Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research is part of NIH and that's the dental group that's there that reviews these grants and they didn't want and they said on those feet they sent back to me a paint sheet they called as a review that they didn't want to see any they weren't interested in seeing any more of this kind of research in other words they didn't want to see
	Have a test discussed and presented that would show that mercury could cause the same biochemical abnormalities as you find in Alzheimer's disease because that implicates exposure to mercury from dental amalgams or from vaccines or from food, like eating fish, to the enhancement and the causation of Alzheimer's disease in modern man.
	And it's been that way ever since.
	I mean, even now today, I have never ever been invited by the Alzheimer's Association of the United States to give a talk and debate with anybody that was doing it.
	Now, on top of that, the major claim of fame that the NIH had was that they had discovered that beta amyloid
	The beta amyloid hypothesis of Alzheimer's disease was in the beta amyloid in the brain was the cause of Alzheimer's disease or involved in it and it may be it is involved somewhat but when they did that they they have had they have put 3.9 billion dollars into the beta amyloid hypothesis for Alzheimer's disease trying to find a cure and just recently
	A professor from the University of Vanderbilt and other people, and it's been confirmed, have found out that that data was fraudulent.
	What happened was a postdoc from France came to the United States and he knew how to do photoshopping.
	And he would Photoshop the autoradiograms for the data to make it fit an increase in a certain form of beta amyloid protein that was being modified.
	And it's all fraudulent.
	It goes back to 2006 or further, where the beta amyloid hypothesis is now destroyed.
	It's all based on fraudulent data.
	Yes.
	Before you go on, there's so much of what you said that I would like to examine in more detail.
	You've given me a fantastic sort of potted history of some of your research.
	Can we start with a bit more about Alzheimer's?
	Did Alzheimer's... is it a sort of a 20th century condition or has Alzheimer's always been with us?
	Well, the first diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease was in 1903.
	And that's 50 years, about 50 years roughly, after the Concord Brothers came from France to the United States and instituted the use of mercury in amalgam fillings.
	And so, you know, it's a modern man disease.
	I mean, and you know, if you've ever seen an Alzheimer's brain, and I have, I mean, even a layperson could look at an Alzheimer's brain besides a normal brain and say, this brain is definitely, it loses a quarter of its size and it's a different structure.
	So there's no doubt that the people doing autopsies in the 16, 17 and 1800s should have seen an Alzheimer's brain and reported it, but they didn't.
	Right.
	So it's smaller, and it's... What else?
	What are the other characteristics of an Alzheimer's brain?
	Pardon?
	So, apart from being smaller, what are the other characteristics of an Alzheimer's brain that you can see?
	This looks like it's shrunken.
	And inside, this is, well that's a good question.
	Because there are, the way, you cannot diagnose Alzheimer's disease by just talking to the patient or clinically.
	You have to do an autopsy and pull the brain out and look at it.
	And if you have neurofibrillary tangles, a buildup of beta amyloid, Protein and hyperphosphorylation of a protein called tau.
	If they see that, then they say you died of Alzheimer's disease.
	But that's only post-mortem.
	Only way you can do that post-mortem.
	And what was important, that in the animal studies, like with rats, if we expose rats to mercury vapor, what I showed was that the tubulin in Alzheimer's brain was about 80% dysfunctional.
	On the average, sometimes 100%, sometimes 60%, but on the average over 80% and only in Alzheimer's brain.
	And you can do that and you can see that with Alzheimer's brain.
	And so there's the aberrant biochemistry that sticks out like a sore thumb that our NIH and FDA just ignore.
	They don't even mention it, but they know it.
	It's almost 100% depleted.
	I mean, in 100% of the A.D.
	brains, there will be a depletion of the activity of beta-tubulin.
	And beta-tubulin is a protein that makes neurofibrillary tangles.
	And another group in Canada has shown that if you add very, very low levels of mercury, that the beta-tubulin will come off of the neurofibrils, making neurofibrillary tangles, which is a major diagnostic hallmark of Alzheimer's disease.
	Right.
	What do they look like, these neurofibrillary We have to look at them.
	You have to see them under a microscope.
	Anybody can go on the internet and put down neurofibrillary tangles and get a picture if you want to see them.
	It's just the neurofibrils, when you take the tubulin off, they kind of wind out.
	They look like strings.
	You know, a ball of string.
	And not unhealthy.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And the other thing that happens is that the beta amyloid level goes up in the brains.
	This is done in South Korea, and I can provide anybody with these references where they have shown that mercury prevents the expression of the protease that's made in the brain that is used to chew up in a healthy brain to chew up beta amyloid.
	And so when you inhibit that, the production of that protease by mercury, the beta amyloid builds up.
	So mercury builds up the elevation of beta amyloid.
	And if you look at my papers, tau protein is hyperfosylated, is a protein that connects Tubulin to the neurofibril, it's a connecting protein, and when you displace the tubulin, that tau protein, it becomes hyperphosphorylated, but not because it's hyperphosphorylated by phosphorylation, it's because it prevents the dephosphorylation of the compound, of the protein.
	And so it all fits.
	The bottom line is, there are six items, very definite, in the biochemistry of an AD brain, That can be mimicked by adding mercury to a normal brain.
	And yet our government totally ignores that and primarily because if you get rid of that, if you just say we can prevent Alzheimer's disease, we can prevent a lot of neurological illnesses by just removing mercury from our diets, from our exposure, from dental amalgams, from vaccines, then all of a sudden you just think of the impact that would have on medicine.
	I mean, And especially the ability of the big pharma to make a drug like they have and to treat Alzheimer's disease, which doesn't work, but it's approved by the FDA.
	Yes.
	I mean, there must be so many people.
	I mean, my uncle died of Alzheimer's.
	There must be so many people who suffer from Alzheimer's.
	I mean, I don't know what the figures are in America.
	Do you have any idea how many people get it?
	Well, yes.
	In the United States, it's over 20 million.
	I mean, I don't know.
	I mean, this is not my number.
	This is the number that I have read.
	And it's increasing every year.
	And they're almost always old.
	And you see, mercury goes slowly.
	I mean mercury effects collecting in the brain are slow and so you see this slow deterioration and it's very difficult because the mercury when it goes in the brain to cause Alzheimer's disease is not released.
	Mercury displaces iron inside the central nervous system and this is the real cause of the disease is the displacement of iron.
	When you have unbound iron in the central nervous system which everybody's finding now in Parkinson's and Huntington's and Alzheimer's disease That iron isn't from iron you eat.
	I mean, necessarily.
	It's because mercury gets in the brain as Hg0.
	In other words, it's a vapor.
	It goes right to the brain without any trouble at all.
	It goes through all the biomembranes.
	When it gets in the brain, there's an enzyme called catalase that takes Hg0 and converts it to Hg2+.
	That is the most toxic form of mercury known.
	And Hg2+, Does a lot of its toxins it induces oxidative stress not by the HD 2 plus directly but by displacing iron off of the iron sulfur centers in the mitochondria in the electron transport system and we know it does that because it inhibits ATP production
	And it induces the production of superoxide anion, which is then converted to hydroxyl free radicals, which is the final toxic molecule that destroys all biomolecules, DNA, RNA, proteins, lipids, and it induces the oxidative stress that causes the brain deterioration.
	Can I ask you, is Alzheimer's the only cause of dementia, or are there other forms of dementia not related to mercury toxicity?
	Well, you know, there are other forms of dementia that have not been proven to be related to mercury, and I would agree with that.
	Pick's disease, for example, is a form of dementia, and it's the one most confused until the person dies.
	They'll say they either have Pick's disease or Alzheimer's disease, but we don't know until they die and we look at their brain.
	Right.
	The Pick's disease is not related to mercury in any way I know.
	So, Alzheimer's has clearly become a massive problem from the early 20th century onwards, and it barely existed before then.
	And you're suggesting that this is because of the use of... Is it primarily from environmental pollution, or is it mainly amalgam dental fillings, would you say?
	Well, you know, this...
	It's environmental and if you believe the World Health Organization, the major contributor to human mercury body burden is from dental amalgams.
	But it would be mercury vapor from any source.
	I mean, like coal-fired power plants, eating methylmercury in fish.
	I mean, all of them would be a contributor.
	But the major one is dental amalgams, because it's right in your mouth and it releases the vapor.
	And you see, the body has some protection against inorganic mercury, or HG2+.
	But it has no protection against mercury vapor, because it's like a hand grenade.
	Mercury vapor, when it's released into your mouth, it gets into your blood.
	It doesn't react with other proteins because all the electron shells of mercury are filled.
	So it doesn't bind to sulfur and stay there.
	And it gets transported to all the organs of your body.
	It's only when it gets inside the cells that have catalase, or an enzyme that can oxidize the mercury from Hg0 to Hg2+, that you see the toxicity.
	And that happens in the brain, for sure.
	I've spoken to dentists about this and there seem to be two schools of thought in dentistry.
	There's the majority of dentists who still maintain that amalgam fillings are are fairly harmless.
	They say things like, you know, once the amalgams are there, it's best to leave them there because disturbing them only creates more problems in any way that the mercury doesn't really leak out and etc etc.
	And then there's the minority of dentists, sort of holistic dentists, who say no, this is rubbish.
	Actually you need to get rid of this stuff and you need to get rid of it under very Careful conditions where you have oxygen to stop you breathing the microwave vapour, you have to have all manner of paraphernalia to stop it getting into your blood.
	Why is it that the majority of dentists maintain that amalgam fillings are not a problem?
	Well, now if you ever go talk to a A dentist asked him how many courses in toxicology he ever took when he was getting his degree in dentistry.
	None.
	And the thing is, all the research out there defies that explanation.
	In other words, I have done it.
	I know that explanation.
	I have fought with it.
	But I have had people, dentists, send me teeth with amalgam fillings in them that are very old.
	And the amalgam is still in the tooth.
	And I can take a test tube with distilled water.
	And I can take aliquots of that and add it to normal brain homogenet with no effect.
	But if I take that amalgam filling, that tooth with amalgam filling, and drop it in that tooth.
	And this is published, by the way.
	And just wait a few minutes.
	And if I take an aliquot of that water that's been soaked with a tooth that has a tooth that's been soaked with, I mean that has an amalgam filling in it.
	If I add that to a normal brain I totally inhibit the tubulin just like you see in Alzheimer's disease brain or like you would see if I added mercury chloride to it.
	So that's just anybody that says that vapors don't come off of amalgam fillings are scientifically ignorant.
	I mean and it's self-inflicted because the publications are out there and they weren't all done by me or people that are anti-amalgam.
	I mean there's a nice paper from Turkey where they looked at all the mercury level on dead soldiers based on the number of amalgam fillings they had and the correlation was it went up in all the tissues of the body with increasing number of amalgam fillings, the mercury level did.
	And so there's no doubt about that.
	They're worried about lawsuits.
	In this country, I can tell you, I think the Dental Association is dramatically fearful if this ever gets into a class action lawsuit against them, because they'll lose.
	I mean, the science is totally against them.
	And look, I don't have anything against dental amalgams.
	I had them.
	My wife, when we first got married, had 15 dental amalgams.
	She went to a dentist in a county in Indiana that if you had one cavity in a jaw tooth, he would drill out all of the jaw teeth and fill them all up with mercury so you wouldn't get a cavity later on.
	And so she would end up with five amalgams if she had one cavity in her jaw tooth.
	And so we had them all taken out.
	When I saw my data, my wife had all of her amalgams safely removed.
	Or safely, as you put it, designed.
	Did she have any... when she had them taken out, did she... she must have had a bad reaction initially to all the vape?
	She did.
	She had a bad... she was...
	Not feeling good, you know, for at least five days after, five to ten days after every, because she did them a quarter at a time, a quarter of a jaw of her mouth at a time.
	But she didn't like taking the shot.
	So when she had a shot on the left side, lower jaw, she had all those amalgams removed.
	At that time, and then she went back later and got the next quarter, and then the upper, two uppers, and that's how she did it.
	I mean, and that was because we didn't know any better.
	I mean, that was our logical approach to her problem.
	Can you remember what sort of symptoms she suffered in those five days immediately after?
	Primarily lethargy and lack of energy, inability to sleep and read, and just a lack of being comfortable in her own skin.
	Yeah, because I can't remember whether I'd had it done before I spent she lost or not.
	I had my amalgam fillings taken out by a nice dentist and it was all quite painless, but I didn't go to a holistic dentist, which I think with hindsight was a big mistake because I was fine for the first two or three days.
	I thought well, this is a breeze.
	I'm fine, but then about A week later, I got the most terrible... I can only describe it as sort of terror.
	Like panic attacks.
	Something so horrible that if I could have jumped in front of a train to end it at that point, I would have done.
	It was terrifying.
	Well you know there was a, the IAONT has come up with a safe procedure for moving dental amalgams and I helped them do a film called Evidence of Harm and in that film I designed and suggested to them, I mean it wasn't just me, I mean there are other people there that understand this too, where they took a mannequin and set it in a dental chair and they put a
	Uh, filling in that mannequin's mouth, you know, with a regular tooth that they pulled and they put a dental amalgam in it.
	And then what we did was we, uh, turned off all the bright lights and turned on a UV light that would see, uh, cause amalgam vapor, mercury vapor can be detected with the UV light.
	And it comes out like smoke.
	You can see it come out.
	And in that they, they, they show the dentist going up to the, uh, a mannequin getting, and we're turning his drill on.
	And then you can see everything very clearly.
	And then when he puts the drill down on that amalgam filling like they would do to drill it out, all of a sudden you just see this mercury vapor and it turns the entire room black.
	And it comes rolling out and it slowly fills up and so you can't see anything.
	And that's telling you that taking it out on the patient is not only hitting the patient, it's hitting the dentist, it's hitting the secretaries in the office, anybody in the building.
	Heating up in a dental amalgam causes mercury vapor to really come out very, very high.
	The heat from a dental grill just drives mercury vapor out of those amalgams at a very, very high level.
	And that's filmed.
	It's a film you can't fake.
	So before we go on to what people can do about this problem, just going back, the history of amalgam fillings, who came up with the crazy idea of putting mercury in people's mouths?
	Because surely, you mentioned the Mad Hatter.
	How did the Mad Hatter idea come about?
	Why were Hatters known to be mad?
	What was their mercury exposure?
	Well, you know, most of the hatters at that time were using skins from beaver traps in the United States to make beaver hats.
	And to make beaver hats or hats out of any animal skin, you want to cure it with mercury because that keeps parasites from eating it.
	Because it's too toxic.
	And so they would always, the hatters, they called them hatters, people made hats, were always working with high levels of mercury.
	And that's the reason they say it was as mad as a hatter.
	Because if they worked with it, or any kind of occupation where mercury was involved, the people became demented.
	And mad, as they said at that time.
	And that's how mad hatters were identified.
	Or named.
	Because they were exposed to a lot of mercury and they became demented.
	And I'd like to know before that.
	Even before that, I mean, I imagine people like, I don't know, Francis Bacon would have known about the toxic properties of mercury.
	It must have been a... Well, the history is very questionable, but it's there where people talk about people that worked with mercury.
	They knew it would drive people crazy because it was a treatment.
	Mercury was used to treat syphilis early on.
	And the people who took syphilis treatments became demented.
	I mean, I've read that in a paper.
	Now, I wasn't there and I didn't review it and I didn't see the patients, but that is one of the hints that they had that the mercury was not good for you.
	Yeah.
	And yet, at some point, somebody had the bright idea of putting mercury in fillings.
	Why did they do that?
	Well, because, you know, caries or rotten teeth you know with cavities were a problem a major problem back then and they had nothing to treat it with and at one time they used to put lead in melted lead and that's very painful now someone is a Concur's brother is a first first ones I've read about Concur's brothers and they were from Paris and they tried to they developed an amalgam filling they
	They realized that if you took powdered zinc and copper and tin and mixed it with mercury, you would make a fluid, a malleable type of material that you could stuff in a tooth that would get hard and make a filling.
	And it worked better than putting hot lead in a tooth.
	And so they're the ones that invented it as far as I know.
	Now, I don't really, I haven't really researched to see who was the first person to come up with that idea.
	But the Concordes brothers tried to make that a business in Paris and the French wouldn't allow it.
	And so then I think they went to England.
	And they were kicked out of England and they came to the United States and that was this being about 1850s and that mid 1800s.
	And so they were accepted in the United States and the people who put in a mouth and fillings to start with were barbers.
	And a few people that had no education, they just knew they could get this amalgam material and stuff it in a cavity and anybody could do that.
	I mean, you didn't have to have any special talent.
	You just picked up this putty and stuff it in a hole in the tooth.
	And it worked quite well as far as it, you know, saving the tooth for a period of time.
	And do you know when people first became aware that mercury, that amalgam fillings might be a problem?
	Right at the start of World War II, there was a German professor who claimed that his mental problems and his toxicity was caused by the amalgams in his mouth.
	And he tested amalgams and he showed that these amalgams were leaking mercury vapour that would be toxic.
	Yes.
	the levels that if he collected in the body would be toxic and so it was be right and then world war ii started and he uh his work was just uh ignored for a long time yes so in other words that there have been periods in history where the scientists and doctors and so on have been perfectly aware of the problem but instead of being acted on the research has been buried
	Yes, they call them the amalgam wars.
	And there's a whole, there's several articles on them.
	And anybody can go to Google and type in Amalgam Wars.
	And the first Amalgam War was with this German professor who came out and said it was toxic.
	And there have been a lot of, there's been a constant fight.
	As far as I'm concerned, and from what I've been told by dentists who are much more adept, I mean, who are against mercury amalgams and who read about it, they call them the amalgam wars.
	And this is the last one was when I was involved, when I brought up the thing about mercury causing Alzheimer's disease.
	But there's no doubt about it.
	There has never been a paper published in science Where people have been careful about looking at the effects, where they've added mercury to a biological system, either an animal or cells in culture, or to a biochemical enzyme process, that mercury was not found to be excessively toxic.
	Too toxic to place in a human.
	There's just none.
	And if you take them, of course, they lose.
	We're talking about, okay, so this would have been, the German doctor would have been, what, the late 30s.
	So from the late 30s until now, that's getting on for 90 years, isn't it?
	90 years it has been known about, at least 90 years, that amalgam fillings are toxic and that they can cause things like Alzheimer's or brain fog or whatever.
	And yet, And yet still, if you go to a dentist now, I think in the US, do they still do amalgam fillings?
	Yes, they do.
	There's a large percentage of the older dentists that just place amalgam fillings.
	And I don't know the percentage.
	I mean, I don't have access to that kind of data, but people have guessed it's about 50%.
	of the practicing dentist in the united states and if you practice if you all if you propose that removing amalgam fillings will make you healthier and you're a dentist the state dental boards will try to take your license really yeah so it's a racket it's almost like a protection racket that well look the major if there is a group that really needs deserves all the blame for the neurological illnesses caused by exposure to mercury
	it would be the american and british dental associations the They both have scientists that could measure.
	They themselves could go measure the amount of vapor coming off of an amalgam film.
	And I have done that in my laboratory.
	accomplished it and amalgam fillings released toxic amounts of mercury vapor and mercury vapor is the most toxic form of mercury with regard to causing neurological illnesses because that mercury vapor can get into the bloodstream and be delivered directly to the blood brain barrier and pass it and get into the brain where it becomes converted to the toxic form of mercury the hg2 plus and it's very toxic
	i mean the comments made by a dental personnel from the american dental association are scientifically ludicrous right i mean they're just they're they're they're mindless -
	And am I right in thinking that until you started doing this unpopular research, you were a kind of golden boy of your research, and that you were punished once you started coming up with data that went against the establishment?
	I think the major threat I was is that we have found that this compound, my compound, that I made to bind mercury, it not only binds mercury, it binds any toxic metal, it binds sulfur.
	And so it binds unbound iron and unbound iron is now the major directed causation of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and Huntington's disease.
	An unbound iron in your central nervous system can only get there one way and that's by being displaced by mercury or cadmium or barium or some other metal.
	And those metals that are toxic go in and they compete with sulfur with the iron for the sulfur binding sites and in doing so they displace the iron that's bound to the sulfur complexes in the mitochondria.
	And so you end up with a lot of free iron and iron is a redox metal.
	By being a redox metal I mean it can transfer an electron to make superoxide anion with oxygen present.
	And in doing that, you start making hydroxyl free radicals, which is what causes the irritation and the death of tissues under toxicity or in infections.
	So Parkinson's is another thing that is caused by, and Huntington's disease as well, you mentioned, that those are both caused by mercury.
	Well, mercury would enhance the toxicity.
	I'm not saying they're the only thing that causes it, but you know, like paraquat is something that people think causes Parkinson's also.
	But paraquat definitely induces oxidative stress.
	And if it induces oxidative stress, it means that it's displaced iron.
	Because you can't make iron.
	The body has all kinds of protection to keep any free iron or unbound iron in the bloodstream or in the cells.
	And yet the only way you can get it released is you displace it by putting a toxin like HG2+ displaces Fe2+ because it binds to sulfur tighter than does the iron.
	And the iron gets displaced and then you end up with excess oxidative stress.
	And what about autism?
	Well, autism, everybody can argue about what caused the autism.
	And see, I was convinced that it probably was a mercury in the vaccines because it went up when they started the mandated CDC vaccine program.
	The level of autism went up dramatically.
	But the one thing everybody will agree with Autistic children have a high level of oxidative stress versus neurotypical children.
	Now you can't have oxidative stress without having unbound iron or copper causing the production.
	So when you look at it, and that's the reason I've made the OSR, which is the compound that I now have sitting with the FDA to be approved.
	Because it was called Oxidative Stress Relief because I showed biochemically that my compound was one of the best antioxidants ever made.
	And probably because part of it is it bound the iron and prevented the production of hydroxy radicals.
	Because someone like myself, I took it for a long time and then I had my blood glutathione levels measured.
	And I had blood glutathione levels when I was 65, equivalent to that of a teenager.
	My doctor was amazed, and that's because I was taking OSR.
	And if you look at OSR, it looks like two glutathione molecules.
	It has two sulfurs on extended arms that are very similar to the extended arms of the thio group on glutathione, which is the major antioxidant in the body.
	And it's totally without toxicity.
	We have checked it with every FDA-required study you can do on humans, on animals, and the compound is without toxicity.
	And yet the FDA refuses to let American medical doctors get their hands on it to see if it would be, you know, a treatment or preventive for Parkinson's and other things.
	And that's, you've got to understand, this is the major thing the chelating mercury would do you want to chelate the damage before it occurs mercury destroys neurons everybody would agree with that but if you have mercury and nbmi at the same time the nbmi binds the mercury and prevents it from being able to destroy the neurons and so it's a preventive that's its strongest point now when you take somebody that's say an extended and advanced alzheimer's disease
	nbmi does not make neurons i mean it cannot causing neurons to be formed.
	All I can do is stop the heavy metal toxicity that prevents recovery by causing more oxidative stress.
	It eliminates the oxidative stress, which is the main problem.
	Right.
	Yes, you've jumped forward to the solution now.
	Because I imagine that a lot of people who've been listening thus far will be thinking, well hell, what do I do about this problem?
	You know, I've got amalgam fillings, I've probably been eating tuna fish with mercury in it, and I don't know what else.
	What do I do about it?
	So you've developed this substance.
	How did you invent the substance?
	I had, we had a laboratory.
	When I was chairman of chemistry, I was working hard at trying to prevent mercury toxicity.
	And I knew it was going to be an area of great research that would be funded.
	And so I hired a faculty member from North Dakota who came there, who was trying to develop chelators to keep mine water.
	And Kentucky is a big coal mine state.
	At that time, it was for sure.
	And he's looking at compounds as graduate students were.
	That would bind mercury and prevent mercury toxicity.
	And so when I saw this compound, it didn't work in water because it won't dissolve in water.
	It did not work in treating cold wine water.
	But when I looked at it, I thought this would be good to try on a human because it's hydrophobic.
	In other words, it doesn't dissolve in water, but it'll dissolve in your lipid bilayer, and it would get into the brain, it would get throughout the body.
	And so I made some of it in a laboratory, and we improved the synthesis, we made it pure, and we tested it for safety and for efficacy.
	And the compound, we published this in 2012, it showed that the compound, if you gave this compound immediately after giving Lethal doses by injection, subcutaneous injection of mercury.
	It totally eliminated death at one and two times the lethal dose of mercury.
	So the compound in the body bound mercury and rendered it non-toxic.
	I also made some of the compound complex, the mercury NBMI complex, in a test tube and sent it off to A company that tested for toxicity and they came back and said that the mercury NBMI complex, which is what we called it at that time, was totally without toxicity.
	Two grams per kilogram body weight didn't even make a rat sick.
	And so there's no doubt I have a compound that binds mercury and renders it non-toxic.
	And that this compound can, if you take it orally, gets into all the cells of the body.
	We've shown that with radioactive complex.
	And so it's all in the hands.
	If we're going to do something, we need to change the FDA.
	Our Food and Drug Administration does not want a product on the market that prevents disease.
	Because if you prevent disease, you lose a customer.
	The medical establishment loses a customer, and this is the only way I can explain their response to me.
	Because the compound is without toxicity, definitely save animals from heavy exposure to lethal doses of mercury, and yet the FDA will not You give us even a temporary approval so medical doctors can use it to treat patients.
	And the explanation that they give to me is just cockamamie.
	I would say I've never dealt with anybody like our Food and Drug Administration.
	Am I right in thinking that NBMI, this substance that you developed, was originally available on the market and then got withdrawn by the FDA?
	Yes, when I made NBMI, I made it to bind mercury because I thought that was a problem with autistic children.
	But also, I mean, I don't just sit on my duff and take one.
	I had it sent off and I had it tested as an antioxidant because just looking at it, it looked like a very potent antioxidant like glutathione.
	And when it came back, it is the most potent antioxidant ever made that you can take orally.
	Nothing comes close to it, not even glutathione.
	And so, We told the FDA that we're going to sell it as a dietary antioxidant.
	We sent them all the safety studies to show that the compound was safe.
	And the compound is made out of two natural ingredients.
	Cystamine, which is on the end of a coenzyme A in the body, and very much found in the body in the breakdown of cysteine, the amino acid.
	And the other part of it is a dicarboxybenzoate, which is found in cranberry juice or cranberries.
	It's a natural product.
	And I coupled those two together because cystamine is a positive charge.
	And when I put it on the dicarboxybenzoate, it unmates that negative charge.
	And so you end up with an uncharged molecule.
	That means it would be somewhat lipid, soluble, and get throughout the body.
	I was trying to make something that wasn't charged that we get out of the bloodstream and get into cells.
	And I was successful.
	I mean, the chemistry, as I explained it in that first paper, turned out exactly as I predicted back in 2012.
	There's been nothing to change my mind about that.
	And none of the research we're doing has indicated that the compound has any toxicity at all and is very effective at preventing, in a biological system, oxidative stress or the toxicity instituted by either copper or iron or mercury.
	We've tested those two extensive and so it's it's a very effective molecule but you know you can't test it when they say test this against a human subject and that's what the FDA wants us to do.
	Well where do you find human subjects that are only exposed to mercury that are not exposed also to lead or cadmium or other toxins there aren't they don't exist we have more lead toxicity than we have mercury toxicity.
	And so to find people, humans, that are only lead, mercury toxic, the FDA can't tell you where there are any.
	And I asked him, tell us what group of subjects would you approve for us to do our testing on to show it works on mercury toxicity in humans?
	And they can't tell us one.
	So we're doing a study now in Columbia, South America, on mercury toxic people there because they have a high level of mercury exposure from the fish they eat and from the Magdalena River, which has old gold mines that have been used Mercury to extract the gold for a long time and that study is now underway.
	Why do they use mercury to extract gold?
	How does that work?
	Well, mercury absorbs gold.
	If you have a stone with mercury flecks in it and you mix that with mercury and shake it around, that mercury will dissolve that gold and you get a mercury gold complex that's kind of liquid.
	And then you can get that out and you throw the stone away because you've got the gold out of it with the mercury complex and the mercury settles at the bottom of the pile of stones you have.
	And then you take them.
	This is where the people that do artesian gold mining get really exposed.
	They take that mercury that they've shaken with rocks containing gold, and they vaporize off in their fireplaces or their fire pits, the mercury vapor, and all that's left from the bottom is the gold.
	I see.
	So there are... Mercury extracts from the rocks.
	Yeah.
	So the people who live there are really... have got loads of mercury in their body.
	They must be in quite a bad way.
	Yes, yes.
	And we did a study using NBMI or OSR on mercury gold miners, I mean on gold miners in Ecuador.
	And we showed improvements in their health, their sleep ability and everything else.
	And 10 out of 11 showed a major drop in their urinary mercury levels taking OSR.
	But the problem was these people, when they took the OSR, also went back to work and they were in a city that has a very, very high level of mercury vapor because they're heating it to extract gold.
	And so at the control groups were very erratic.
	And so even though our compound showed health effects that were very positive and showed a decrease if we use the highest level of NBMI 300 milligrams a day, which is not toxic to them at all.
	The data was not convincing enough to the FDA that it was working because there was extraction.
	Right.
	In other words, sometimes the people that were controls would go way up in mercury because they went out and worked burning mercury vapor.
	And we didn't have tight control over that population.
	Right.
	And am I right in thinking that the NBMI, as it was called then, was also being used by mothers to treat children with autism?
	Yes, and that's the reason they shut me down.
	The FDA shut me down because the mothers on blog sites, the mothers of autistic children on blog sites were putting out that NBMI, called OSR at that time, OSR and NBMI are the same thing, that this was the best treatment they had, that it stopped the intestinal problems their children had and stopped them from spinning and shrieking and having meltdowns as they called them.
	And so they told me that since our compound that was a dietary product was being used to treat a disease that I had to stop selling it as a dietary product because people were using it to treat autism and successfully.
	But then, you know, and I don't mind them saying that, but then come back and help me.
	I mean, the FDA just shut it down.
	So since 2010, mothers that could use NDMI or OSR to treat their autistic children have not been able to.
	And it's really enhanced, you know, the seriousness of that disease and the destruction of those children, the mental destruction.
	And our government has very little... I mean, this is my own personal observation.
	They have never called me to talk to me about what I had or why this compound, why all these mothers would say this would cure autism.
	And, you know, they've never asked me to come to an autism conference and talk.
	and present the data to any of the FDA scientists and they said you have to stop using it.
	You can't sell it as a dietary antioxidant and this is without a single drug-related adverse effect being reported to them or to our autism site that we held to check the compound out.
	The compound is totally without toxicity and yet they do everything they can to keep you from making it available to American doctors.
	See, that's who will really show the value of the compound, our American medical doctors who run clinics.
	So, this would seem to support your thesis that mercury in vaccines is what causes autism, because if your product is effective in treating autistic children, that's clearly a sign that it's the mercury that's the problem.
	So, can I ask you, why do they put mercury in injections in the first place?
	To keep bacteria from growing in the vaccine fluid?
	It's a preservative, they call it.
	But bacteria won't even grow in the presence of thimerosal.
	Thimerosal is incredibly toxic to all forms of life.
	And so, since it kept bacteria from growing, kept it clean, and they used a study done by Eli Lilly, a scientist a long time ago, where they took people that were dying of a major illness, and they treated them with thimerosal, and said it didn't hurry up their death, so thimerosal was safe.
	There is no study, scientifically, looking at the toxicity of thimerosal, that would indicate that it's safe to put in any device.
	It's a very toxic compound.
	But we must be talking really tiny amounts of mercury.
	So it's obviously, even in tiny doses, it must be very, very toxic.
	Mercury is toxic at the lowest dose you have because it goes in the body and it stays there.
	It goes into the brain and it doesn't leave.
	And so it builds up over a period of time.
	And if people don't believe that, go to the NHANES study, the National Health and Nutritional Evaluation Survey that's done by the CDC about every two years, and they take thousands of American women and men, and they test their blood, and they measure all of the toxic elements that could be in their blood, like and they measure all of the toxic elements that could be And they have shown that, you know, after you're 18 years old in the United States, the mercury level is building up in your body.
	And that's from eating fish or from dental amalgams or from some source, They don't identify the source.
	Although, if you have any sense of chemical logic, you know the mercury vapor coming off your amalgam filling from drinking hot coffee and chewing food on it that's hot, would be tremendous.
	And so stop that.
	And there's not there's not an intelligent response to this from our government from the American regulatory companies like the FDA and the CDC.
	They are controlled by the money interest and the money interest of the people that do dental work using amalgams or using it to preserve vaccines.
	And when MBMI was during that brief, that narrow window when it was available, was it also being used for other things?
	Was it being used for Alzheimer's, for example?
	I did a study with Joachim Mutter.
	I sent him OSR when it was Considered a safe supplement and he tried it on five Alzheimer's patients and But then that when we were getting near the where we could see some major effects The FDA shut it down and said I couldn't talk about that and I I couldn't continue working with him.
	I couldn't send it they had it such that I could not mail it across international borders and But I would tell you that during that time people with rheumatoid arthritis and it still holds up when they took this it totally eliminated their arthritis.
	And people who had brain fog would essentially report to me that almost immediately after taking OSR, within a few hours, the brain fog would lift.
	Because OSR would bind the mercury on the blood-brain barrier that goes into the central nervous system and reactivate those enzymes that had been inhibited by mercury.
	I think is the reason for that.
	But no, it was used a lot.
	But there were a lot of people claiming it had effects.
	And we had A lady here in Kentucky that had Parkinson's disease diagnosed by the Mayo Clinic and she was in a wheelchair and she could not sit and according to the doctor who helped us get a patent on it for this process that her head would flip back and forth.
	She couldn't hold her head and she could not talk cogently and he put her on OSR.
	And within two months she came back and in her wheelchair and got out of her wheelchair and jumped up and down in front of him telling him this compound has cured me.
	Meaning OSR that I had sent to him had been used to cure her of her Parkinson's.
	We had a German university professor who tried the same thing with a Swiss medical doctor and he wrote a letter also to us saying that he could not even hold a pencil and write until he started taking NBMI and when he through the early access program in Europe and it got him out of his chair and eliminated his symptoms of Parkinson's disease.
	And we did a study in Slovenia A phase two study.
	on Parkinson's patients with progressive supranuclear palsy, form of Parkinson's, as well as a multiple systems atrophy, form of Parkinson's disease.
	And they saw very positive effects on the progressive supranuclear palsy patients.
	But it needed more.
	I mean, that was a small patient, maybe 28 patients, and only for two weeks.
	And you know, what we're doing is saying, you're stopping the toxicity and the body's repairing itself.
	When you recover from NBMI treatment or OSR treatment and Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's, the NBMI is not making new neurons.
	It's preventing the breakdown and stopping the toxicity so the body itself can do it.
	Yes, that's really exciting.
	That suggests to me that the tissue can regenerate, that once you remove the toxicity.
	Yes.
	And you know, people who have strokes, if they go through physical therapy, can recover some of their function and get some of their neurons working in an area that weren't working before.
	So you can, depending upon the extent of the damage, repair the damaged tissues.
	But the earlier you get it, the better it is.
	And that's what we found with autistic.
	The children that were the most impressive in losing their autistic symptoms We're the youngest ones, the very youngest ones.
	They recovered.
	Sometimes they even lost all their autism symptoms.
	And there are several parents out there that can attest to that.
	I mean, that's not me.
	I didn't have an autistic child that tested on, but I gave it to several doctors, especially that had autistic children.
	And the reports coming back was that it had an immediate effect of increasing eye contact and stopping the gastrointestinal problems these children had.
	Yes.
	Can I ask you a really stupid question?
	Because I hadn't really thought about the meaning of the word antioxidants.
	It's one of those words that's, you know, if you read magazines, colour supplements in newspapers and stuff and that you go to the health section and they're always talking about the importance of antioxidants for health and they tell you about things like cranberry juice and so on.
	I hadn't made the connection between Anti-oxidant and oxidisation, you know, about iron.
	And now it makes total sense to me.
	But could, for example, if you drank lots of cranberry juice, could that help combat mercury poisoning?
	It can, but it's not nearly as effective as taking something like OSR.
	OSR looks like, OSR gets inside the cells, and what we've done, we've proven that in animals.
	We've taken animals that are made in mercury toxic, and taken controlled animals, and added NBMI to their diet, or gave it to them orally, and we do that, their intracellular glutathione levels go up to normal, higher than normal, in the controlled animals, and it prevents the mercury causes a depletion of glutathione, which is a major antioxidant in your body.
	And it's also used to bind toxic molecules of all sorts and take it out of your body.
	In the P450 system, detox system in the body, in the phase two of that, you have to attach to the hydrophobic molecule like benzene or something, some drug that's hydrophobic.
	You have to attach to that a natural compound that has a charge to it to make that hydrophobic and soluble compound soluble so it can be removed from the cell.
	And glutathione is one of the major components.
	Okay, so glutathione is very hot right now.
	A lot of people are talking about it.
	get it to be to make that mercury sock a toxic soluble so you can take it out through the biliary transport system of the liver and put it in the feces right okay so glutathione is is is very it's very hot right now a lot of people are talking about it a lot of people are talking about taking NAC how do you how do you what's what's the actual work yeah Yeah, which is the precursor to glutathione, isn't it?
	Is that right?
	Pardon?
	Cysteine is an amino acid that's used to make glutathione, and it is the active component of glutathione.
	It puts the sulfur out to bind to toxic metals and the other compounds that have been oxidized so you can attach the glutathione to it irreversibly, or chemically, covalently, and cause that molecule to have glutathione attached to it.
	And when a molecule has a glutathione attached to it inside the cell, that molecule is marked for transport outside the cell into the plasma, where it goes through the biliary transport system of the liver, and that biliary transport system will bind that mercury, pardon me, that and that biliary transport system will bind that mercury, pardon me, that glutathione-modified protein, and put it in the bile, and put it in the feces, and get it out of
	So could you, because I've heard sort of mixed stories on this, Is glutathione in large doses?
	Will that chelate your mercury or will it just send it haywire around your body?
	It will not get inside your cells.
	You cannot eat glutathione and increase intercellular glutathione levels.
	And the main reason is, if you take, say, glutathione IV and put it right into the plasma, the first thing that happens to it is that when it goes through the liver's biliary transport system, that glutathione gets put into the feces, into the bile.
	And so, that's the reason.
	Glutathione is made, and whoever designed the human cell, God if you want to have it as that.
	Made high intracellular glutathione levels so it can bind to viruses and it does.
	Glutathione will bind to viruses and mark them for excretion into the plasma and then into the bile and out the feces.
	And so if you take a glutathione and put it in the plasma, it gets excreted in the bile.
	It never gets inside the cells.
	No one has ever shown that they can give pure glutathione or glutathione in lymphosomal fractures and have it get inside the cells of a living mammal.
	It just doesn't do it that way because the flow has to be out if you want to use glutathione to carry toxic molecules out of your body.
	You have to have that glutathione picked up and put in the vial from the plasma to keep that concentration very low.
	For example, inside the cell is 3 to 4 x 10^-3 molar.
	In your plasma, the glutathione levels are micromolar, or 10 to the minus 6.
	In other words, it's 3,000 to 4,000 times higher inside the cell, glutathione levels are, than inside the plasma.
	Right.
	So, you're trying to push in against a major thing and that's not what you want to do.
	If you want to increase glutathione, you've got to have something that stops it from being destroyed inside.
	And that's the reason NBMI increases the intracellular glutathione level.
	It binds the mercury and the unbound iron, eliminating the oxidative stress and the consumption of reduced glutathione, which is used by those two components to prevent their toxicity.
	So what happens, NBMI just prevents, it doesn't make more glutathione, it just prevents it from being used up because it substitutes for it.
	It will bind the mercury and it will bind the toxic hydroxy radicals and keep them from destroying the glutathione, the reduced glutathione in your body.
	Okay.
	Now, one of the things I found out doing my research about chelation and heavy metals and stuff was the Cutler Protocol, devised by a man called Andy Cutler, who is sadly no longer with us, because I tried to get him on the podcast and I discovered he died five years ago.
	But a lot of people use his protocol to chelate, but it sounds very grueling.
	Tell me, what do you know about the Cutler Protocol?
	I know a lot about it.
	I knew Andy.
	We weren't friends.
	We were co-handed on the internet.
	He was very much wed to this using lipoic acid.
	Apple lipoic acid has two sulfurs on it.
	An alpha lipoic acid is the cofactor that's needed for pyruvate dehydrogenase activity at the end of glycolysis going into the citric acid.
	It's the first step of the citric acid cycle.
	And it's dramatically inhibited by mercury because there are two thiols in this cofactor, lipoic acid, that binds mercury.
	And then they thought that if you took a lot of lipoic acid, it would bind the mercury and carry it out of the body, but you had to keep a high level in there all the time.
	And so he came up with a process that he said would lower mercury.
	I have never seen any publication by any research group to show that that worked.
	I mean, as a matter of fact, I was concerned because lipoic acid is a natural compound that's taken inside cells.
	And if it binds mercury, does it help that mercury get inside the cells?
	Because you do have a transport process for the lipoic acid to get it inside the cell.
	And so I was worried about it, and I knew that it did not cause a major efflux of mercury out of the urine.
	Why didn't they show that?
	If that worked, somebody would have done that study, and I've never seen that published, where the pluric acid dropped the urinary mercury levels in patients that were mercury toxic.
	My compound did.
	It does.
	Yes.
	It drops it dramatically.
	So I looked at the Cutler Protocol and I'm not at all qualified to say whether it does actually get rid of the mercury from your brain or not, but what struck me was that it's very demanding because you have to ALA, which you just mentioned, you have to take every three hours, round the clock, For three days.
	I know.
	I know.
	I mean, what that would do to one's sleep patterns.
	I can imagine you'd be lying there waiting for your alarm to go off so that you could have your next dose and you wouldn't get any sleep in between.
	Well, you know, there's a logic behind what he's trying to do.
	If the lipoic acid would bind the mercury and cause it to be excreted, it would be helpful, instead of carrying it in the cell.
	And that's what they have to show, and that's what my objection was.
	That's too easy to show.
	You take somebody that's mercury toxic, lipoic acid is a natural food product, well take it and show that you increase the urinary excretion of mercury.
	And they never ever showed that.
	And that would be easy for them to show if it worked.
	And that was a proof that they lacked.
	And when we do that, what we see is a big increase, a decrease in mercury going out through the urine, but a big increase, and this is in test animals that are mercury toxic, we have DMSA, pardon me, we give them NBMI, and the mercury level going out we give them NBMI, and the mercury level going out in the fecal route goes up dramatically, and the amount going down in the urine goes down quite a bit because it's not charged.
	It goes out through the P450 system, which is exactly what you would expect.
	Right.
	Well, OK, if I were listening to this podcast now, I'd be thinking, how do I get hold of this MBMI?
	And you can't right now, can you?
	Because the FDA are stopping it.
	The FDA is sitting on it.
	It's on the second IND in the hands of the FDA and they have evaluated this and the FDA has told us they believe that we have proven that the NBMI is totally safe in animals and in humans.
	That there's no safety concern at all.
	Even on the development on reproductive toxicity studies, which is probably the most sensitive, NBMI didn't have a single drug-related adverse effect at very, very high concentrations.
	And so they say you have proven it's safe in both animals and humans, and you have proven that it's efficacious in test animals.
	I mean, the first publication I did in 2012, we would inject rats under the left flab of their stomach skin with lethal doses of mercury.
	One lethal dose or two lethal doses or 14 times lethal dose.
	And these rats would die at a given time.
	If you gave them one lethal dose, they would all die on day six after that injection.
	If you gave them two lethal doses, they would all die on day three.
	If you gave them 14 times a lethal dose, they would all be dead in three to six hours.
	But if after you gave them that lethal dose of mercury, you also inject it under the other side of their body, 20 minutes later, a massive amount of NVMI If you did that on the rats that got one or two times the lethal dose, they didn't even get sick.
	They didn't lose weight.
	None of them died.
	100% of them were saved.
	Nothing else in the world can do this.
	This should have got the FDA, if they were interested in trying to find a way to keep people from dying of mercury toxicity or getting sick, this should have got them excited.
	And it was published in a major referee journal and the reviewers were very excited about the possibilities of this compound being used to treat mercury toxicity in humans.
	If we gave it on the 14 times lethal dose, if we waited 20 minutes and gave them a dose, none of the rats were dead at three hours.
	All of them were dead if you didn't give them the NBMI.
	They all lived out 48 to 72 hours and then two A couple of them died.
	They died of quivers.
	And I didn't treat them again.
	I just didn't have enough NBMI to bind up all the mercury was what it came down to.
	But six of them lived forever.
	I mean, we kept them for a long time to see if they would develop cancer or, you know, have limpy walks or something.
	And nothing happened to them.
	I mean, they were six, a good percentage of them were totally protected.
	But some of them did die at 14 times lethal dose.
	And that's published in his paper.
	2012, which I would be glad to send to anybody that wants to read it.
	How quickly can NBMI get rid of the mercury in your body?
	Well, you know, when we had made radioactive NBMI, or OSR, and we didn't do it, we had a group in England do it.
	There's a company that specializes in doing this.
	And they would inject the radioactive NBMI into the rats, and they would do auto radiography of the rat body to see how long it took it to get it in the brain, into the liver, where did it go in the body, and then how fast did it leave.
	And we did that for three weeks or longer.
	And what you see is that within two hours of giving radioactive MBMI, it's all over the body.
	It's not the same in each tissue, but it's in the liver and the kidney and it's in the brain.
	And then you can watch it and it peaks as long as there's mercury in the plasma.
	Going from the gut to the plasma to the cells once it once it once it's out of the plasma Then you see it start going out of the cells and what we can say because the FDA Want us to do that because they said we're afraid this compound will build up in the brain and cause major problems Well, it doesn't it doesn't it builds up in the body as long as it can go out of the plasma into the organ like the kidney But once the kidney once it's down in the plasma Then it starts leaving the kidney and the liver and the brain and all the tissues of the body and
	And at 72 hours, you can't detect it in the body at all by autoradiography or cutting and counting.
	And we did two things.
	They did autoradiography of the whole rat body, which would measure all the radioactivity to see if it's gone.
	And at 71 hours, they couldn't detect it anymore with that technique.
	It was all out.
	And that means 95% of it plus was out.
	If you cut the organs out and measure the radioactivity directly in the organs, it confirmed what we saw by the autoradiography.
	And so what we do know, and what that study clearly showed, is that NBMI gets into the body, is displaced if you take it, gets into the plasma, goes to all the parts of the body, and it leaves, but it leaves rather slowly.
	I mean 72 hours to get it all out, or get most of it out.
	And if you did that to a rat that was made mercury toxic, you did the same as a rat that had no mercury at all.
	In other words, and you know if it gets into those tissues it binds mercury because it will prevent those rats from having weight loss and they will stop eating.
	And so NBMI is known to prevent the toxic behavior or symptoms of mercury toxicity if given orally.
	And so, we know it binds at mercury, and even then, when it binds at mercury, it did not slow it from leaving.
	I mean, the mercury NBMI complex, by rational thinking, is leaving the body as fast as NBMI by itself, with rats that aren't toxic.
	So, it's taken the mercury out of the body and it goes into the feces.
	And are there any side effects when it comes out?
	I mean, do you sort of feel... We haven't had one reported, except good ones.
	I mean, there's no adverse drug-related effects, and we have done studies on people with mercury toxicity on Ecuadorian gold miners.
	We did it on a group of COPD patients, chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder.
	We can't say that it reversed it because you can't reverse all that damage with MBMI.
	You can stop the toxicity, but you can't reverse the toxic effects that fast.
	And then we did it on Parkinson's patients, which showed very positive effects.
	But the most exciting one was on thalassemia patients.
	Thalassemia is an iron overload disease.
	People with thalassemia have to have blood transfusions on a regular basis, like every week or two weeks, to keep good red blood cells in their body to carry oxygen to their brain.
	But whenever they get a blood transfusion, they also get a transfusion of undone iron that's in the blood transfusion because those red cells are getting old and dying.
	And so if they take too many blood transfusions, the ferritin levels in their blood builds up to a point where it's toxic.
	And so thalassemia patients die of iron overload and actually ferritin levels But if you give them NBMI for 28 days without a single drug-related adverse effect in those patients, their iron overload did not build up.
	I mean, it eliminated their iron overload because NBMI bound that iron and kept it from going into the ferritin.
	And got it extruded by the P450 system, I would guess.
	Have you got any thoughts on Lyme disease?
	Because I've got Lyme disease, but the symptoms are very similar to the ones of mercury poisoning, aren't they?
	Particularly the characteristic symptom of brain fog.
	Is there any connection?
	You know, if there is, I would not be the expert that would be able to point that out.
	I mean, I'm very cautious to separate what I think from what I know.
	Do I think it does?
	I think Lyme disease is probably more likely to happen to somebody that's mercury toxic than it is in somebody who's not mercury toxic, just because of the age of the people that normally get it.
	Yes, yes.
	I really can't say that I know that that's a fact, but I would be shocked if heavy metal toxicity doesn't increase your susceptibility to Lyme disease.
	But I am not an expert in that area, so I'm very reluctant to express an opinion when I don't have the facts that I control to know about.
	So, pending the FDA licensing your drug, what do people do when they've got mercury toxicity?
	I mean, how do they deal with it?
	Well, I don't know that they can, but the one good suggestion would be take a supplemental selenium, because selenium binds mercury and renders it in an inner complex.
	Mercury HGSE is not reactive.
	And so that would be one thing they could do, and eat a lot of antioxidants, because mercury causes a lot of its damage by displacing iron.
	And it's not eating iron.
	You can't stop eating steak and keep that iron level down.
	I mean, that's not going to be the causation.
	The causation is mercury, unbound mercury displaces iron inside your cells and causes it to build up places where that iron can't be chelated or removed.
	And they're saying that in all the neurological illnesses, that the correlation is high iron, unbound iron, in the central nervous system of people with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and Huntington's disease.
	Those are other people's publications, not mine.
	What about zeolite?
	Zeolite, it's like a clay that...
	Well see, I put zeolite in the same category as Andy Cutler's protocol.
	The zeolite, if you try it in a test tube, it doesn't bind anything.
	Zeolite doesn't have a sulfur group in it.
	And to say that it would pull mercury off of sulfurs in cells, when zeolite doesn't even get into your cells, is very unlikely to work.
	To me, I think that's a sham.
	I think zeolite is a total sham.
	Right.
	Because chemically, there's no reason it should work.
	And they gave you an explanation, but, I mean, mercury doesn't go into little pockets in zeolite all out of cells.
	Right.
	I mean, actually, the only thing, the only compound I know that has been shown to absolutely protect against mercury toxicity by binding it incredibly tightly is OSR or NBMI.
	Right.
	So, the story you've been telling is It seems to me to be emblematic of something much bigger, which is that the pharmaceutical industry, and lots of other industries too, the dental industry in this case,
	They seem to be like, sort of, these gangster rackets, where they almost have a vested interest in making people ill, in order to, and keeping them ill, in order that they can then make money out of the semi-efficient cure.
	And there are all these protective barriers to ensure that anyone with a real solution is kept out of the picture.
	Is that fair?
	You know, I don't know if it's a fact, but you're about maybe the 100th person that's expressed that to me.
	And people have told me the FDA will never approve my compound because my compound's real strength would be if it ever made it to a grass compound.
	It should be grass, generally recognized as safe, so you can go to Walmart and buy it.
	Because, you know, for all these diseases, You know, you want to prevent them.
	I mean, you can probably prevent Alzheimer's.
	I doubt you can reverse and repair somebody that's in full dementia.
	I mean, it would take a lot of work by the body to do that, but you can prevent it.
	And that's what NBMI's greatest strength is.
	It is, without a doubt, a very, very potent antioxidant.
	We did a study on 10 human beings, five of them autistic children, five of them elderly people with medical problems.
	And when they took NBMI, we drew their blood and sent it off to be checked for the blood glutathione levels and 200 other to make sure I wasn't causing a problem.
	This is before we ever gave it out as a dietary antioxidant.
	And what we found is that MBMI didn't change anything in the blood that was normal, out of the range of normal, except it dramatically increased or reduced glutathione levels in the body.
	Of the autistic children and of the older people that were having neurological symptoms that were varied.
	And so everybody that took, and we measured that, and it was measured by an expert at another university who's an expert on Dr. Jill James-Wozernade at the University of Arkansas.
	And she measured, and what we saw was dramatic increases in reduced glutathione in the people who took OSR.
	And that's a good thing.
	These people were all low.
	suffering from oxidative stress.
	Another way to define oxidative stress is that you have much lower glutathione levels.
	Glutathione is necessary to keep your body functioning properly, to fight off viral infections, bacterial infections, and toxic exposures such as mercury or lead.
	If you can build up your glutathione levels, like if you can take someone my age when I was 65 and get me the glutathione levels in my blood as a teenager, I'm not going to get sick.
	And I didn't.
	I mean, it was very, I mean, I never, and my wife was a registered nurse and she took a flu shot every year because she had to, to keep her job.
	And every year she took the flu shot, she got sick and every year I did not get sick.
	And so, and it kind of irritated her that she could do that.
	And so when she, when she retired, she started taking OSR.
	And when she started taking OSR, she never, ever got the flu again.
	Yes.
	And so we...
	I can't resist asking you, even though it's not related to mercury toxicity necessarily, but what are your views on the last two years where people have been almost forced or blackmailed into taking these alleged vaccines for Covid?
	And they seem to be having all sorts of terrible side effects.
	Well, I think that's pretty obvious, but what scares me more than anything is that there were reports from India and other countries that things like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine would prevent COVID.
	And the FDA suppressed the use of those compounds, and so did the CDC.
	They did not promote it, and they promoted you go getting the vaccine.
	And the only thing consistent with the activity of the FDA and the CDC is to take money out of the pockets of citizens and transfer it to the pharmaceutical industry.
	And if you had a drug that was off-label, like ivermectin, that supposedly works, and I have read some of the papers where they've used it, They're very, very reasonable.
	Ivermectin would prevent you from getting COVID.
	And so why did they suppress that?
	Why did they recommend that you not do it?
	Why didn't they recommend that you do it?
	I mean, there is something there needs to be a big investigation because I don't have the access to the information to I don't blame the FDA totally.
	I don't know what their logic was.
	No one's ever explained it to me.
	But it sure as hell is symptomatic of what happened to me.
	You see, when I reported that mercury caused Alzheimer's disease, it was a major exacerbating factor.
	And that's the words I used.
	Alzheimer's, I didn't say it was the only cause.
	I said it was a major exacerbating factor because of the biochemistry it caused.
	And then they took away my NIH grants.
	At that time, they were trying to promote finding some drug that would modify beta amyloid.
	And so they could sell the drug companies could have a drug to treat Alzheimer's disease and make a ton of money.
	And I was kind of, I didn't, I mean, you know, like I said, try to separate what I think from what I know.
	And what I started thinking then, are they trying to make Alzheimer's disease the next big profit margin company or drug, a death or disease for the pharmaceutical industry?
	And I didn't think so, but then later on I read that the FDA approved a drug that 10 out of 11 people on the evaluation committees told them don't approve it, it doesn't work.
	And the FDA approved it anyway to treat dementia, Alzheimer's dementia.
	And so you have to look at that and say, who in the hell's in charge there?
	So there is something, there needs to be a major investigation of the FDA and the CDC.
	Mainly because of the COVID.
	I mean, the COVID thing is not just me.
	I'm educated a little bit about COVID because people who are involved with COVID call me up and ask me about my compound.
	Would it be effective to treating COVID?
	And I think it would.
	And you see, there is a study.
	This was done in France.
	in Paris, at the University of France, what they did is they would test antiviral drugs in a planchette.
	They would grow a tissue in there, and they'd put the virus in and watch the virus replicate.
	And the only thing that they found, the thing that they found that worked the most effective at preventing viral replication in this tissue that was not toxic was glutathione.
	Reduced glutathione totally inhibited the viral infection.
	And that has been repeated, and I have given talks on that data because I follow the law.
	And in my opinion, that person who found that out should have been given the Nobel Prize.
	And so what that tells you, when the virus is being made in your body, it's in the presence of 4 or 5 millimolar glutathione if you're healthy, if you're a young person.
	And If you're old and your glutathione levels are low, you're more likely not to be able to inhibit that viral replication.
	And that's the reason older people suffer more from viral infections than young people.
	And that happened with COVID.
	And so if you could induce a high level of glutathione, like my compound does, and it mimics properties of glutathione, like it binds mercury tighter than glutathione does.
	And so it prevents toxicity better in that one aspect anyway.
	If you can get that compound in the body and show that it blocks viral replication.
	And because the people have speculated that it's the one thiol on glutathione, which my compound has two compounds, very similar in structure as the one on glutathione.
	And it's more soluble.
	You can get higher concentrations.
	You can replace it.
	Taking it daily with a capsule.
	If you do that, that thio group reacts with the virus active site that binds to the cell that allows it to be internalized and replicate.
	That's how your body gets over viral infections.
	I mean, do you ever think, why do some people get over, don't have the infection?
	Other people, the virus replicates so much it makes them sick.
	Well, if you can get glutathione attached to that virus, it's going to be excreted from the body.
	Right.
	But just to repeat an earlier point, you're saying that if one were to take glutathione supplements or NAC supplements, it wouldn't enter the cells and therefore would it be effectively useless?
	I wouldn't say it's useless, but it wouldn't be effective.
	I mean, taking in acetylcysteine does have an effect on glutathione, because it's the essential amino acid, the rate-limiting amino acid in the synthesis of glutathione.
	Right.
	Right.
	And so N-acetylcysteine breaks down and releases cysteine, and it causes an increase in glutathione synthesis, but nothing like my compound does.
	I mean, it does not scavenge the hydroxyl fruit radicals like my compound does, and it doesn't bind the iron and the toxic metals that are causing the production of hydroxyl radicals like my compound does.
	Right.
	So, I mean, it's a proof in the pudding.
	I mean, you could not take N-acetylcysteine and inject rats with a lethal dose of mercury and give them enough N-acetylcysteine to save their lives, or DMSA or DMPS.
	None of those other compounds would do it.
	And yet the FDA, when they read that paper, said this was weak proof of efficacy.
	It kept 100% of the rats from dying from double the lethal dose of mercury, and it saved 70% of them that were given 14 times lethal dose.
	You can't get better.
	I mean, just their evaluation of that as being weak proof tells you that they're not very smart people who are doing the review.
	Not everybody in the FDA is that, but I would just say that was, that tells you that these people aren't competent to evaluate the effectively of a key leader for the whole country.
	And they're making, they're the same people that say, don't use ivermectin.
	Same group of people.
	You say they're not smart people, but maybe in an odd way they are smart, because what they're doing is they're doing what they're paid to do, which is to keep products.
	Well, if they're smart, they're unethical.
	If they're smart, they're unethical.
	And there's something wrong with the FDA.
	I don't think anybody can look at their... I mean, like, we found out that 85% of the baby food made in America contains huge amounts of toxic metals and shouldn't be allowed to be sold.
	Why didn't they stop that?
	They stopped me from getting something that will prevent toxicity, but they haven't shut down any of those baby food manufacturers.
	There's something wrong with the FDA.
	I don't know exactly what it is.
	It would take a study by Congress to do that, but hell, our Congress is as bad as the FDA, I think.
	Yeah, it sounds like you share my despair of the system.
	I mean, I'm perhaps even more cynical than you are.
	I suspect that there's a reason why those toxic metals are in baby food and that it is quite deliberate, you know, grab them while they're young and create future patients Well, look at the level of iron coming out in Kent, Michigan, and now Chicago, where they're finding high levels of the drinking iron, I mean, pardon me, lead in the drinking water.
	And the FDA has done nothing hadn't taken any strong action on that at all to reverse that or spend billions of dollars on that to prevent people from being made heavy metal toxic.
	I mean, I just I mean, I don't understand if I do understand and I follow logic.
	You know, and like I try, I try to separate what I think from what I believe.
	I really think there's something wrong with our regulatory process in this country that keeps us from approving things that are totally without toxicity proven.
	I mean, I'm not making that as a wild claim.
	I mean, this is the data is all there.
	We have given it to humans at over a thousand milligrams per kilogram body.
	I mean, thousand milligrams a day.
	And we did rats up to 5,000 milligrams per kilogram body weight and didn't make any of them sick.
	So this compound is really incredibly non-toxic.
	And yet the FDA sits on it and doesn't allow medical doctors have access to it.
	Because see it won't be someone like me that will show that this compound is good for preventing Parkinson's.
	There will be some medical doctor somewhere in the world Europe or the United States that gives it to a clinic full of Parkinson's patients and follows them carefully and I'm not qualified to do that.
	But the FDA is preventing qualified people from getting it by setting on and kill you by just like when I pointed out the mercury toxicity causing Alzheimer's disease.
	Why wasn't I invited by the CDC or the FDA to attend a conference and let the people who are experts saying that dental amalgams are safe beat me up?
	Why wasn't I ever invited by the American Dental Association to one of their conferences to tell them how I know mercury from dental amalgams is toxic so they can argue with me and show that I'm wrong?
	They don't want to do that.
	They don't want to argue with me.
	I'm very careful.
	I mean, and I don't try to say I'm brilliant, but I am an exceptionally careful research scientist.
	I've been that all my life.
	Very methodical, follow your nose research, and carefully document.
	And when I started making Looking for a drug to treat mercury toxicity?
	The first thing I did was find something that would bind mercury incredibly tight in the laboratory.
	And in this laboratory where I was chairman of chemistry, I was on a graduate student's committee, and I read his papers, and he had something that looked like it bound mercury very toxic, and it's only kickback was it would dissolve in the water.
	So you couldn't use it to treat mercury in rivers and streams.
	And so, but I thought it, you know, we needed to try that in animals.
	And so I made the compound and we started doing a development to see how toxic it was in animals.
	And so we took rats and we injected 100 micromoles per kilogram body weight, then went up to 200, then 300.
	And it's all in that paper that's published.
	And we went up to a huge amount of it.
	And what we found is that the rats that were getting it disinjected looked healthier.
	They had a nicer color to their coat.
	than did the rats that weren't given it and then we decided well let's see what it does for mercury toxicity so then we injected the rats with mark with the nbmi and then injected them with mercury and we showed that we could prevent uh giving the rats ahead of the time would totally prevent mercury toxicity
	so then we we then uh did the study where we injected the lethal doses of mercury and waited 20 minutes and then injected the compound so that we could say the mercury was around the body and with this compound to go around the body and pick it up.
	And it did.
	We saved 100% of the rats that were given one or two times the lethal dose of mercury.
	And that's a huge amount for a human.
	I mean, there would not be very many humans with that much mercury in their body.
	And it saved me.
	I'm every one of them, 100%.
	And the FDA dismisses that offhand.
	And it's either because they're crooks or because they're stupid. - I think I know which one I think it is.
	Dr Haley, thank you so much for sharing with me what I consider to be a shocking scandal.
	And I really, really hope your product is released on the market one day, although I rather fear that there are so many vested interests which don't want you to be ever made available.
	Well, the people have got to stop taking, uh, I mean, when I was a kid, I grew up, I was one of the big admirers of the Food and Drug Administration because of the thalidomide situation, the things I read about it, and we need a good Food and Drug Administration.
	Everybody, I mean, every country needs that.
	But, uh, I think, I think what we now have is one that's been captured by the pharmaceutical industry, and they're not, they try to keep drugs off the market that are generic, Or that are going to interfere with their marketing or their sales of major drugs to people for a long time.
	And the real thing is we need to form a political action committee or group of people that come in and say, we're not going to vote for people who support the FDA and without making them stand up and say, why are you doing this?
	Yes.
	That's the only reason.
	I know what I've sent to the FDA.
	We sent to them an investigational brochure that's 90 pages.
	It talks about every toxic study we've done, every reversal of mercury toxicity in animals.
	It's not just one.
	It's 10 years' research.
	They still refuse to try it, even though they say mercury toxicity is an unbound iron, especially.
	And that's the one that's really critical.
	We showed that directly.
	We took unbound iron.
	We had iron and copper to the bronchial velarovars samples.
	And this was done in King's College in London.
	And we paid somebody to do this.
	And we gave him the compound.
	And if he injected iron or copper, The oxidative stress in those tissues went up dramatically.
	If you put in NVMI, it totally eliminated it.
	Because it binds them and it covers the electron shells and makes those toxic metals not available, just like taking them out.
	But it does it in situ and it does it very quickly, within minutes.
	And so, the medical community does not want to stop, you know, the advent of neurological illnesses or other illnesses because it's going to cost them money.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's what I think.
	I don't know, but I think that.
	Well, I wish that I... I'd love one day to be able to come over to Kentucky and ride some of your... You can ride at any time you want.
	I want to ride your horses, but you know what?
	I'm banned from visiting your country at the moment because your president has declared that, as somebody who is unvaccinated, I am a pariah.
	I know.
	He would do that.
	I mean, it's this outlandish behavior that's making me feel like there's something, people are trying to control our disease so they can control us.
	And they want everybody taking a vaccine.
	And the vaccine, when I read, I read all the work on the vaccine.
	I'm not a vaccinologist.
	I know very little about them, except I did make vaccines when I was a graduate student for a research tool.
	I mean, I put them in rabbits.
	And what I remember, When I was trying to make antibodies to myosin for a study that we would put in digested myosin proteins and peptides and sometimes when we would try to get a rabbit to up its titer of antibody production we give them a second shot and they drop dead.
	So there's some things about vaccines that aren't safe that we don't understand and I don't understand for certain.
	And so I think we need to have a better look at this and I did have one thought.
	Joe Biden has got, he must have Alzheimer's.
	If ever there was a candidate for your product, that's the man.
	Well, I think, you know, I'm two years older than him, and I have had some of the problems I see him having.
	And I can tell you, he is not capable.
	He should not be President of the United States.
	He should not be making decisions based on his mental status and his mental ability, as I see it.
	And again, that's what I think, that's not what I know.
	I don't know anything about him.
	But I see him just like you do.
	And it worries me.
	I'm very worried about this country.
	Well, Dr. Haley, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you, and I do hope I come to see you if you ride your horses one day.
	We pray.
	Thank you very much.
	It's been really good talking to you, and again, I hope your product gets released one day.
	So, thank you.
	OK.
	You're welcome.
	At the same time, you can make it here if they let you off the boat.
	OK?
	You're welcome to come.

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