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Nov. 7, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:33:09

Bart Sibrel

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	Welcome to The Delling Pod with me, James Dellingpole.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this special guest, but I really am.
	I've got Bart Sibrell.
	Welcome to the podcast, Bart.
	Well, thank you for having me.
	I imagine that you're going to tell me why it is that all those moon landing deniers are completely wrong and that Neil Armstrong definitely landed on the moon and we should not tolerate these tinfoil hat crazies.
	Is that right?
	Well, I mean, I wish it were true.
	I was the biggest fan of the moon missions.
	I don't know how many people out there had 20 9x12 color prints of Apollo 11 on their wall for 10 years that they saw every day.
	That means I saw them 3,650 times, assuming that they were authentic.
	And then when I worked for NBC News, I met a gentleman who worked for the Apollo program for six years with extremely high security clearance, and he read memos from Von Braun to the Pentagon that Von Braun admitted the odds of going to the moon on the first attempt, when all of NASA had one millionth of computing power of a cell phone, was a 1 in 10,000 chance.
	So, like a poker player who's got garbage, they bluffed.
	And so, you know, I considered that a possibility.
	I looked at the pictures on my bedroom wall that I'd seen every day for 10 years, and sure enough, the background, at least in the original pictures, was one color, and the soil was a different color.
	They've since corrected that.
	And then, I was asked by Bill Kaysing, who worked for Rocketdyne for six years during the Apollo program, because I was a filmmaker, to do a film about it.
	And as I started doing preliminary investigation, for example, I'm a filmmaker of about 35 years.
	My job is to make fake scenes look real.
	And if you go out in sunlight, just go out on a sunny day, stand about five feet from a friend, and you'll see your shadow and your friend's shadow always run parallel.
	The sun's a million times bigger than the Earth.
	It's going to cast shadows in the same direction over an entire continent or moon.
	So, when numerous Apollo pictures that they claim are on the moon have shadows intersecting at 90 degrees from objects 5 feet apart, take it from a filmmaker, that's 100% proof that the moon missions were fake.
	In fact, you don't need to worry about the flag waving or this, that, or the other.
	You can prove the moon landings are fake with one picture that you can see for free at Sibrel.com.
	Click on the top left button that says Moonman Video Links and watch the first video, a three-minute presentation of why, unfortunately, the moon missions were fake, and I show a photograph that they claim is on the moon, where shadows are intersecting at 90 degrees from objects five feet apart, which is impossible in sunlight, which means it's electrical light, which means they're not on the moon.
	So, to tell you the truth, James, I originally turned down the project.
	Because, you know, I found other things that were inconsistent, like two of the three astronauts on the glorious first mission never gave interviews.
	The administrator of NASA mysteriously resigned before, you know, putting this great feather in his cap.
	Didn't want to have anything to do with it.
	And the Soviets had 50 hours in space for every 10 the U.S.
	spent in space.
	In fact, every milestone that was done in space, the Soviets did first.
	The first satellite, the first animal, the first man, the first woman, the first spacewalk, the first crew of three, and so forth and so on.
	And America suddenly leaped ahead, when today, with 50 years newer technology, the farthest that NASA can send an astronaut is 1,000th the distance to the moon.
	So wait a minute.
	What they're saying is, when all of NASA, 50 years ago, had 1,000,000th the computing power of a cell phone, they sent astronauts 1,000 times farther than NASA can send today, with 5 decades better technology.
	Now what that means is, Technology was better in the past than in the future.
	But wait a minute, that's a logical and historical impossibility, which means they block.
	So we have shadows intersecting at 90 degrees, that proves it.
	The logic that they can't have a thousand times greater technology in 1969 than today, That proves it.
	And then, after I originally turned down the project for fear it could be true, five years go by, I started developing a conviction of right and wrong and realized if they did fake it, that's actually more profound of an event than had they actually gone.
	And if true, this lesson that mankind needs to learn of the stupidity in juvenile leaders needs to be exposed or we'll never go forward.
	That's what Orwell said.
	Whoever controls the past, the moon landings are real when they're not, controls the future.
	Which means until the moon landing fraud comes out, the same corrupt leaders will be running our government and us into the ground.
	And then it gets even better.
	Believe it or not, after I changed my mind five years later, realizing this is important if they faked it, I was put in touch serendipitously with a gentleman who's a multi-millionaire who builds rockets for NASA, who knows they were fake.
	He gave me a million dollars to produce these films that you can see for free at Sibrel.com.
	And three and a half years, James, into this seven-year project, under the theory it might be true that they faked it, I pop in a tape that says on the screen, do not show to the public, and it's unedited footage of them faking a one-foot model of the Earth from Earth orbit, pretending they're halfway to the moon, over and over again, with a third track of audio telling them how to fake a radio delay from the CIA.
	That's three proofs.
	We have them right in front of your eyes, faking being halfway to the moon, shadows intersecting at 90 degrees, which is impossible in sunlight, like they claim, the logic that you can't have a thousand times greater space-traveling technology in 1969 with one millionth of the computing power of a cell phone, and then it gets even better, or should I say worse, as I'm releasing my book, Moonman, which is at Sibrell.com in audio.
	I read it, or Kindle, or print.
	Took 15 years to write, two years to edit.
	As I'm editing the book, James, I'm put in touch with Cyrus Eugene Akers, who is the military police chief at Cannon Air Force Base.
	And on his deathbed, he confessed, first time disclosed in my book, He eyewitnessed the faking of the moon landing, June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968 at Cannon Air Force Base.
	He stood beside President Johnson, who was there the first of three days of filming.
	He confessed this on his deathbed.
	All of these proofs by themselves would prove it.
	We have an eyewitness.
	Who says they faked it right in front of his eyes?
	Intersecting Shadows proves it, because you scientifically can't do that in sunlight.
	We have them faking being halfway to the moon right in front of your eyes with the third track of the CIA telling him how to fake it.
	And then you have the logic that they can't have greater technology in the past than in the future, which means they faked it.
	And, you know, the Kennedy assassination list, I'm told, is like 200 people, you know, the eyewitness list.
	And, of course, 9-11, we've got 3,000 architects and engineers saying, That, you know, didn't happen by pinhole airplanes.
	Just look at Oklahoma City bombing.
	Half the building blew away.
	The thing stood.
	And, you know, the latest little thing going on for the last couple of years.
	And yet, even though they probably killed fewer people to keep this a secret, It's the one fraud that, if exposed, would anger the public so much that it would bring about more change.
	That's why I'm kind of suspicious that Joe Rogan and Alex Jones have not had this new revealing information on their programs.
	I mean, we have an eyewitness who was there when they filmed the fake moon landing at Cannon Air Force Base, just published in my book at Sobrel.com, and it's not mentioned.
	Because it is the one thing that, if exposed, would bring about the greatest amount of change.
	When I popped in that tape, James, and I saw them faking being halfway to the moon right in front of my eyes, I just wept.
	I'm like, this is our world, this is my country, and unfortunately it is.
	It proves that our government leaders are just a bunch of gangsters, is what they are.
	And you can vote for corrupt candidate in the blue party or corrupt candidate in the red party.
	All you gotta do is look at Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul to prove that that doesn't work.
	They won't let an honest person get to the top.
	And when someone points out that they're rigging, and even though Sanders is getting twice as many votes as Clinton, Clinton gets twice as many delegates, and somehow that's legal?
	Because it's a private club, but it's going to the presidency, so how could that be legal?
	And instead of going after that vote-rigging corruption, they go after the person who leaked it.
	And then we got William Benny, who worked for 30 years at the NSA, saying, oh, by the way, we spy on the private cell phone conversations of Supreme Court justices so that we can blackmail them with sexual or financial impropriety that we discover to vote the way that we tell them.
	It's an established fact mentioned on the mainstream media a couple of times and not a single investigation.
	And to Supreme Court justices being blackmail?
	I mean, it boggles the mind how corrupt the government is.
	And the moon landing fraud just proves it.
	How arrogant and juvenile and criminal our government is.
	I wish the moon landings were real.
	Believe me, I wish they were real.
	But they're not.
	And what does that mean?
	It means that the people who run our government are criminals.
	And they need to be done away with as quickly as possible or they will do away with us.
	I'm glad you mentioned all this, Bart, because a lot of people say... I mean, I'm in a telegram group of people who would probably be described as conspiracy theorists, and one of the commonest One of the things that comes up when I talk about the moon landings is, look, what does it matter?
	It happened, you know, years ago or it didn't happen.
	Who cares?
	There are more important things to worry about.
	There's like, you know, there's central bank digital currencies.
	There's the Covid Scandemic and there's compulsory vaccines.
	But of course, you're right.
	This is the original, the biggest scam.
	I'm just turning up my AC there.
	It's getting hot here in the Philippines.
	Well, you know, if they had faked the moon landing, James, and didn't kill anybody to do it, I would agree with you.
	It's just one more counterfeit.
	You know, Robert McNamara, on his deathbed, said, oh, by the way, the whole reason the Vietnam War started, which killed a million people, we just made that up.
	The Gulf of Tonkin incident never happened.
	We made it up.
	So I think if they're willing to kill a million people needlessly... I didn't realize he'd confessed that.
	Yeah, Robert McNamara did.
	He was Defense Secretary at the time.
	Right.
	And he said before he died, the CIA just made that up.
	It never happened.
	And that led to the death of a million people.
	So I think they're willing to fake a TV picture, especially when there's no independent press coverage whatsoever.
	So my second to the last chapter of my book, which is at Sobrelle.com, in audio Kindle or print, I read it, It's called NASA's Greatest Fear.
	Now, I was given a million dollars by a board member of an aerospace company who builds rockets for NASA, who knows it's fake, as it's patriotic duty to expose it.
	We uncovered...
	You know, fake footage, them faking it right in front of your eyes.
	We have an eyewitness who was there, Cyrus Eugene Akers at Cannon Air Force Base, June 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1968.
	And I was also given other information that I was asked not to put in the film, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, which you can watch for free at Sobrelle.com.
	Cost about a million dollars to produce.
	Now that the book has come out many years after the film, and certain people have passed away, I can now release certain information, which is in the book, for the very first time.
	Not only exactly where Apollo 11 was filmed, not only my bizarre espionage adventures, including being literally kidnapped and drugged by the CIA, And they gave me True Serum.
	It's so strong, I'm throwing up.
	I told them everything they wanted to know.
	Where the tapes were, the original tapes, this, that, and the other.
	I was in la-la land, you know.
	So why you ever have to torture anybody, I don't see why, unless it's, you know, vengeance.
	And I escaped their custody.
	And so I said, I got them.
	I peed in a cup.
	And I take it to a lab in someone else's name, and the friend calls me a few days later and says, well, there was a problem at the lab.
	I said, what?
	Because I was like, I got him.
	I got proof I was drugged by the CIA with this exotic truth serum.
	He said, well, there was a break-in at the lab over the weekend and a strange thing.
	The only thing stolen was your urine sample.
	But here's why it matters, okay?
	The crew that would have been the first crew to walk on the moon, not my opinion, the opinion of the dead man's widow, Betty Grissom, who I interviewed for four hours, and the opinion of the dead man's son, Scott Grissom, 747 pilot, who I interviewed for three hours.
	They have forensic evidence that their father and husband was murdered by the CIA.
	He was a whistleblower.
	He was complaining they were a decade or more away from going to the moon, not two years in 1967.
	He was preparing reports for Congress and a senator, which were confiscated from his home even before they informed his widow that he was dead.
	So the day before he dies in an accident, right, he comes home, says, honey, for some strange reason, the CIA, for the very first time, is all over the launch pad.
	Very next day, the guy's dead.
	Not my opinion, the opinion of the dead man's wife, the opinion of the dead man's son, who's a 747 pilot.
	They were murdered, the crew that would have been the first crew to walk on the moon because they wouldn't cooperate by the CIA.
	So this is why it matters.
	If they just counterfeited it and didn't kill anybody, you know, whoop-dee-doo.
	But what this means is they take a third of our labor, right?
	You work, you know, eight hours and for, you know, three of that, almost, your sweat of your brow, your stress with your boss, your commuting, they take a third of that and they hire the CIA to kill our brethren who are exposing their crimes.
	Because our taxes paid the salary of the CIA that murdered Gus Grissom.
	And our taxes paid for the hardware that they rigged the accidental fire.
	That's what this means.
	That's why it matters.
	Because not only are they taking our tax dollars and faking moon landings and whatever else, they're murdering people with our money who are exposing their crimes.
	Our brothers and sisters and fathers.
	This is beyond comprehension that this is going on in the government.
	But it is.
	Can we just rewind there?
	So Grissom was the leader of the original Apollo crew, is that right?
	That's right.
	Apollo 1.
	Because he was going to be the first man to walk on the moon.
	What happened is he had a mercury capsule and when it splashed down solo in the Pacific Ocean, the explosive bolts on the door Exploded, and it started to fill with water.
	And at the press conference, he was asked, were you afraid?
	You know, the right stuff guys.
	And he said, of course I was afraid.
	And everyone just loved him for telling the truth.
	Of course he was afraid.
	And a little humor.
	He had brought about six rolls of bank nickels in his pockets, three in each pocket, to give to his son's elementary school chums and say, hey, this nickel's been in outer space.
	And when the guy's sinking with his extra weight at the press conference, he says, oh, maybe that wasn't such a brilliant idea.
	Gets a big laugh.
	Everybody loves him.
	He's the favorite astronaut.
	They say, this is the guy.
	But, days before he burns alive, he holds an impromptu press conference, without permission.
	And he takes reporters up to the top of the rocket, you know, the summit.
	And he's a bit of a gardener, and he had a lemon tree in his backyard where the lemons were the size of grapefruit.
	And he clipped the coat hanger with some wire cutters, put the lemon in there and hung it on the door and said, this thing is a piece of junk.
	We can't even talk between two buildings on a wired intercom.
	How are we going to walk on another planet in two years?
	Right?
	I mean, it's the only technological milestone that no one on Earth has been able to repeat.
	I mean, when they flew across the Atlantic in 1927, right?
	Imagine 50 years later, nobody can fly across the Atlantic.
	No, there's 747s flying across the Atlantic, by the way, which were developed with 10 years newer technology and had to go through 168 engines before they could lift that off the ground.
	NASA has never kept a schedule except the most complicated one of all time.
	They can't even get the Artemis rocket off the ground unmanned because of radiation.
	The first, second, or third time.
	And then you got Elon Musk with one million times greater computer power and six computers all around that rocket, gimbling the thing to land vertically.
	This is 21st century technology.
	The first time, it blows up.
	The second time, it blows up.
	The third time, it blows up.
	The fourth time, it blows up.
	The fifth time, finally, he's able to land a rocket vertically with six computers that are one million times greater than the Apollo rocket, which somehow landed vertically every single time it tried.
	You know?
	And if it weren't for people's literally making a god out of putting a man on the moon, they would see the truth for what it is.
	And it's literally the god of science.
	What's mankind's greatest accomplishment?
	Putting a man on the moon.
	And how ironic that mankind is so fallen and the United States is so corrupt That they lied about it, all the while Nixon knew it, and said that this faking of it was the greatest event since creation itself.
	When he knew they weren't there.
	Didn't even have the guts to show up for the launch.
	Shows up for the second one after they get away with it.
	But not the first one.
	Didn't want to be photographed shaking Neil Armstrong's hand in case the truth were to come out.
	And of course that's why Johnson didn't run for re-election because they would have faked the moon landing during his next term, and who knew that would work?
	What if he got caught?
	Didn't want to have anything to do with it, but he couldn't help himself popping in and seeing what it looked like as he prepared the faking of it.
	So, just go back to the beginning of the moon project.
	People often ask, how soon did Kennedy, because it was Kennedy who initiated it, wasn't it?
	He said, we're going to put a man on the moon.
	And do you think at that point he thought that it was a feasible project?
	Or do you think he knew from the start that this was just a... Did they plan to fake it from the start?
	Or did they start with good intentions and then realise that it was hopeless so they'd have to Well, what happened was, is the Soviets, you know, orbited the Earth, and about six weeks later, the U.S.
	went up from Florida and landed off the coast of California.
	You know, went 2,000 miles, whereas the other people went 26,000, 30,000 miles, one and a half times around the Earth.
	Kennedy's a visionary, not a scientist, and he misspeaks and says, hey, let's go to the moon by the end of the decade.
	And for some reason, you know, that's on time, never been done before with one millionth of the computing power of a cell phone.
	But when 40 years later, they say we're going to have an unmanned probe orbit the moon, they can't do that in five years.
	I mean, they say they're going to do it in 2014.
	Five years later, it's still not done.
	Six, seven, eight years later, still not done.
	You know, it boggles the mind.
	So, as you know, I think it was called Operation Northwoods, where they were discussing openly, hey, why don't we bomb our own people and blame it on Cuba?
	I mean, why are these people not thrown in jail immediately?
	Fired and then thrown in jail for even suggesting such a thing.
	These are the people who are in our military.
	Hey, why don't we kill Americans at random?
	And blame it on Cuba?
	Who would come up with such a thing except a psychotic person who should be immediately arrested and thrown in jail for saying it?
	I guess Kennedy was too afraid to do anything about it.
	I, at one point, I had the file confiscated somehow off of my computer but I had a document from the Kennedy administration that someone in the Kennedy administration at that time gave to me And they were discussing the potentiality of faking it because Kennedy said look it's too late I set this goal and if we don't do it You know, we're going to look like a fool.
	So, that's the primary reason why they faked it, is simply pride.
	Of course, it is said, where there is pride, then comes disgrace, right?
	And it's like the Titanic had the audacity to put in print, the ship that God himself could not sink.
	We know what happened there, right?
	And then Nixon says it's the grace of his creation when he knows it's all fake.
	I mean, just the arrogance boggles the mind.
	And I think this is spiritually symbolic.
	I mean, mankind's greatest accomplishment is putting a man on the moon, but it's also the greatest lie by the alleged light on a hill, you know, country.
	That's supposed to be, you know, the beacon of democracy that kicks out every democratically elected leader throughout the world by the CIA, who we don't like.
	You know, and then we don't have a democracy at all.
	That's one of the biggest lies.
	You know, Corrupt Candidate 1 or Corrupt Candidate 2?
	They want the most popular person to win, but it doesn't matter.
	I mean, 90% of Americans wanted to know whether their bottle of ketchup contained genetically modified organisms.
	90%!
	Congress passes it and the President vetoes it.
	90% of Americans actually agreed on something.
	How can we have a democracy?
	When 90% of Americans want to have on their food, contains GMO, and the President says, we're not going to do that.
	It'll affect sales of the corrupt corporations.
	I'm going to do what they say.
	And it boggles the mind.
	So, just going back to Kennedy, because people are divided as to whether he was a genuinely good guy.
	Or whether being a Kennedy bloodline, you know, that actually he was batting for the wrong side all the time.
	Have you got a view on that?
	I mean, do you think he started in good faith and then was sort of forced into a lie to save face?
	Or do you think he knew all along?
	Well, the people who run the world are pretty good at it, and they're evil, wicked people.
	And everything improves over time, including the evil ways they censor, you know, the press.
	There's no press.
	Hasn't been press for a long time.
	Now, they occasionally make a mistake.
	It used to be said, James, be careful.
	Bullets are cheap.
	But now they're so in control, they say, you're not worth a bullet.
	And so stooping so low as to rig voting is beneath the people around the world.
	At least it used to be.
	Until they, oops, miscalculated recently and someone got an office that they didn't want in there.
	And I think Kennedy, you know, was helped by his father and probably some corrupt votes in Chicago to win the presidency.
	He only won by one half of one percent of the popular vote.
	Barely won.
	And they figured, you know, he'll pay back the dues for helping, you know, the mob elect him.
	He'll, you know, go easy on them and so forth and so on.
	And then he became rogue, you know, wanted to be honest, you know, and close down the CIA and have the American government print their own money instead of a private bank.
	And six weeks after I mean you can get a five dollar bill from 1963 it says United States note at the top instead of Federal Reserve note and that was out I don't know six weeks before the guy had a fatal headache and he wanted to get rid of the CIA and all this crazy stuff so I think They thought originally he could be controlled, and they realized he could not, so they knew the type of person Johnson was.
	Now whether he had anything to do with it or not, I don't know.
	I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.
	I tried to say the moon landings were real as long as possible, until you see it right in front of your eyes, they're faking it.
	And you have to admit, they did fake it.
	And I saw an interview recently with the mistress of Johnson, and he told her the day before Kennedy was shot, won't have to deal with those darn Kennedys after tomorrow.
	So I guess he did know about it, right?
	And so, that's the way that it works.
	And it's interesting.
	What I'm really getting at is, okay, so Kennedy possibly decides that man is going to the moon in good faith, and then fairly quickly, under the advice of Wernher von Braun and other people, they realize that it's a hopeless endeavor, so they're going to have to fake it to save face.
	to save face.
	But in that case, if it was a good faith venture, how did NASA, I mean, what do you reckon the motivation was for, was it a kind of money laundering exercise or a way of sort of funding a parallel state?
	Because NASA must have got lots of money for this project, which they didn't spend on... Oh yeah, they got an equivalent of 200...
	Yeah, they got an equivalent of $200 billion in today's dollars.
	Now, the military person who told me it was fake before I accepted that it was fake said it's all about the money.
	I mean, I think it was pride.
	They had set a goal and they couldn't do it.
	And all they were doing is orbiting the Earth, just like they can only do 50 years later.
	So I guess they probably used as little as 25% of the budget to orbit the Earth.
	I mean, a moon rover that has, like, one piece that parses a jeep cost an equivalent of $100 million.
	Where did that money go?
	Yeah, I think it's laundering for something.
	Cambodia, Laos, that Congress didn't approve.
	I mean, we're supposed to have representatives from Congress and the Senate, but did they vote to fake the moon landing?
	No.
	Whoever runs the government did it anyway.
	So that's proof right there this representative government is a complete lie.
	That doesn't exist at all.
	And 90% of Americans want something they still can't get it done.
	I think Kennedy misspoke.
	It was too late.
	He had committed to it.
	And, I mean, it just boggles the mind that people just can't see it for what it is.
	I mean, when they blew up the first atomic bomb in 1945, just 10 years later, atomic bombs were 1,000 times more powerful.
	So if they could go to the moon on the first attempt with one millionth of the computing power of a cell phone, we would have been on Mars ten years later, we'd be in another solar system by now, and there'd be bases all over the moon.
	I mean, it took like six attempts to reach the South Pole on Earth, but for some reason it took the first attempt to go to the moon, but somehow they can't repeat it 50 years later.
	I mean, it makes no sense.
	It's just, I guess people are burned in their heart, and they cried and waved their flag and prayed for the astronauts, and all the more reason the truth should come out that hopefully this exposure of the moon landing fraud will enrage the public enough to cause a house cleaning that is overdue.
	Yes.
	OK, so let me ask you a few of the questions which people often ask about.
	One I'm often asked is, if the Russians and Chinese know about it, they know it was fake, as they must, because they've got intelligence people, why do they not speak out about it to discredit America?
	Well, because they're using the information in a more profitable way.
	I mean, let's just say I had a picture of a world leader with a prostitute.
	I could give it away to the public, to the press, for free, and ruin the person.
	Or, I could blackmail them year after year after year after year, you see?
	They're playing their cards right.
	And they realize that sitting on the information and blackmailing the United States is a much better use of the information than just blurting it out.
	I know somebody works for the Chinese space program and they say everybody knows it's fake.
	They teach it in public schools in China that it's fake.
	They are getting technology under the table from NASA to not expose it.
	They also, because of their own standards of honor, they've never publicly said it was real either.
	But they've also never said it was fake, which is part of the deal to get space technology from NASA, which I personally know they're getting because I know someone who works for the Chinese space program and told me so.
	So, you know, that's what's going on.
	And the idea that because 400,000 people were involved, you could never keep a secret from that many people.
	I mean, come on, just think one half step further.
	You really think the CIA is so stupid to tell the person making the glove or the boot or the door handle?
	Hey, we're not going to the moon.
	Be sure not to tell anybody.
	That's like saying what a bank teller knows and what the CEO of the bank knows about corruption in the bank are identical.
	They're completely different.
	It's departmentalized.
	And once the rocket goes up, there's only three eyewitnesses and a TV picture controlled by the government that we have to take on faith is true.
	And then they do a very strange thing, James.
	After they return from the moon, they destroy all the original videotapes, all the original telemetry as to where the rocket really was, all the hardware, all the electronic schematics.
	They destroy them.
	So, I mean, imagine Bill Gates spending $200 billion to make the first supercomputer.
	Works fabulous.
	Then he throws all the hardware and all the schematics into the furnace.
	Would anyone do that?
	Now, maybe they should have done that.
	Have they ever given an excuse for this?
	No, no excuse at all.
	I mean, maybe they should have done that with the atomic bomb, but they held on to that technology.
	I mean, the B-52 is 70 years old, and there's 200 of them still in service.
	So, if they really went to the moon, they would never destroy a $200 billion investment.
	But if they were committing a fraud, they would destroy everything.
	So the fact that they destroyed the record of everything is actually proof of the fraud, because if they really went, they would never do that.
	Yes, exactly.
	Now, I was wondering about the astronauts, who presumably, well, I mean, they were all sort of test pilots and things, weren't they?
	They were sort of all-American heroes.
	And they went into this project, I imagine, in good faith.
	I mean, I imagine that initially they genuinely thought they were going to go to the moon.
	At what point did they discover that their job was to be actors?
	They killed Gus Grissom on January 27th, 1967, so at that point, they had not informed the astronauts.
	The faking of it was filmed June 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of 1968.
	So sometime between that year and a half, after the Apollo 1 crew was murdered, And Neil Armstrong came up.
	I'm sure they asked him.
	And based on my study of his character, he probably said, well, good luck.
	But I'm not going to do that.
	So what do they have to do?
	Because they can't have the guy resign after he's chosen as the man to walk on the moon in front of the world, right?
	So they turn up the heat.
	They threaten his life.
	But the guy's a test pilot flying aircraft that has never been flown before.
	It's kind of dangerous.
	So I don't think threatening his life meant a whole lot to him.
	So he got to turn up to eat some more.
	See?
	I think they threatened the life of his family.
	And get this.
	I went personally to the NASA archives.
	And I said, can I please have one still picture on the surface of the moon of, you know, most famous man in the world, Neil Armstrong, on the most famous event, first trip to the moon.
	Can I please have one picture of him standing there?
	First man on the moon.
	Not a single picture.
	They went in, came out scratching their heads, went in.
	He didn't want his picture taken, didn't want to have anything to do with it.
	That's why he rarely gives an interview.
	Now, there are excuses.
	Well, he was taking the pictures, and that's why he's not in them.
	But the suits are identical, and seeing how it's a 500 degree temperature difference between light and shadow, radiation, micrometeorites, It'd be terrible if you dropped that camera, wouldn't it?
	I think you'd have a backup camera.
	But, he did not even want his picture taken.
	Amazing, isn't it?
	Not a single still picture of the first man to walk on the moon.
	Because he didn't want to participate in it, and he did it reluctantly.
	And then, as shown in my film, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, which you can watch for free at Sobrell.com.
	On the 25th anniversary, he's in the White House, and there's a group of students passing through, and he says to them, perhaps someday, talking about the moon landing, you'll be able to remove one of Truce's protective layers.
	Interesting, isn't it?
	And he said it holding back tears.
	So, I guess the guy was afraid that he would ruin America, ruin his career, or maybe they'd kill his family.
	But the fact is, he should have told the truth at the first press conference and said, please, you know, honorable people in the military, FBI, surround my house.
	And then the bullies would have ran, the cockroaches would have ran for the corners, so.
	It's actually safer to simply tell the truth.
	Yes.
	That's right.
	The truth will set you free and the lie keeps you in prison your whole life.
	So, how many involved in the program?
	You say 400,000 people took part?
	Well, technically, you know, if you take every person who made a bolt or a glove or a panel, they say it was a couple of hundred thousand.
	But, the people who actually knew that it was fake, I mean, there was a guy who was at the command center.
	I mean, he's in the command center, and if you go to Sobrelle.com, and click on Moonman video links, and click on A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, in the first few minutes of the film, you'll see this beautiful tracking shot past command center, seconds before they go to the moon for the very first time, and all the guys who work there kick back, watch the television, like the rest of the world!
	And one of them admits afterwards, quote, we can tell no difference between a simulation and an actual flight.
	Because they had these computer programs running that said they had, you know, 1,000 gallons of fuel left, and 500 gallons of fuel left, and 1,000 feet from the surface, and 500 feet from the surface.
	They're just numbers.
	I called.
	I worked at NBC News.
	I showed the secret tape that I uncovered of them faking being halfway to the moon to the news director at NBC.
	He turned pale white, collapsed in his chair and said, oh my gosh, this absolutely proves we did not go to the moon.
	And I said, yeah, what are you going to do?
	He says, I won't air this.
	It'll cause a civil war.
	So NBC News had the truth.
	Right.
	They had the footage that proved it.
	They admit the footage proved it.
	That's in my film.
	And they refused to broadcast it.
	It would have been quite a scoop.
	Yeah, but they're not doing their job.
	They're afraid of the repercussions of the truth.
	Well, if the truth about government corruption brings down the government, then the truth is doing its job, isn't it?
	Why would you be afraid of it?
	You would rather have the government be corrupt until the end of time?
	I don't understand this guy.
	Cowering, admitting the footage I uncovered proves the moon landings were fake, and refusing to broadcast it for fear it would cause civil unrest.
	You know, it's just unbelievable.
	And then many times, BBC bought my film, NBC bought it again ten years later by another news director, and each time someone from the government calls them up and says, do not broadcast it, they tell me so themselves.
	Government agencies call them up and say, do not air Bart Sabrell's film.
	Do not do it.
	Because I show the faking being halfway to the moon right in front of your eyes, proving the moon landings are fake.
	You know?
	It boggles the mind.
	Could I call up the news and tell them not to broadcast a story about government corruption?
	And they say, yes sir.
	Satan.
	You know?
	Unbelievable.
	Yeah, but I think you've probably experienced what I have, which is that there is a professional price to be paid for going off the reservation and speaking the truth about these things, revealing stuff that governments, the powers that be, don't want revealed.
	I imagine that before this, before you started questioning the moon landings, you had quite a successful mainstream media career.
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, I've been a filmmaker for about 35 years, doing documentaries, TV commercials, music videos, things like that, and God willing, next year, my first feature film.
	And I remember going to some corporate board and, you know, get a corporate job, because I always bid the least, because I work out of my own home, but I own all my own editing and camera gear.
	And I show them, hey, look at this great, excellent movie I made.
	A funny thing happened on the way to the movie.
	Never heard from him ever again.
	And then when the punch happens, my own minister kicks me out of the church.
	He says, you're making us look bad.
	And I'm like, wait a minute.
	I have all this proof we didn't go.
	And he says, there's nothing you could say that would make me dare say the moon lightings are fake.
	I talked to a professor of an aerospace department, teaching aerospace.
	I showed them the four proofs.
	You can't have better technology in the past than now.
	So that proves it was fake.
	Faking being halfway to the moon over and over and over again, which even my critics admit that's what they're doing.
	Shadows intersecting at 90 degrees, which is impossible in sunlight, which means it's electrical light, which means they're on Earth.
	And a guy confessing, I was there and I witnessed it at Canyon Air Force Base.
	And he says, there's nothing I could say that would make him dare say the cherished moon landings are fake.
	And get this, James, I said, well, what about this?
	What if you saw Buzz Aldrin tearfully confessing on national TV it was fake?
	And the guy said, I still think he walked on the moon.
	Yes.
	And this guy's teaching university.
	I was hired.
	There's two more things.
	Yeah, go ahead.
	There's two more things you haven't mentioned, which I found equally persuasive.
	One is the interviews that the astronauts gave afterwards.
	Where they clearly did not talk like men who'd just been to the moon.
	I mean, if you'd been to the moon, you'd be going, yeah, it was incredible.
	I mean, even if you were a sort of a dry, laconic test pilot, you would still go, yeah, it was amazing.
	And we looked down and it was all, you know, looked up, it was all black or whatever.
	But none of this happened.
	Yeah, I mean, I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt as long as possible, but when I pop in a tape and it says, do not show to the public, and they're faking being halfway to the moon over and over again with the one-foot model and the CIA on the third track of audio, I'm like, well, there you go.
	They really faked it.
	But...
	Some people are, you know, I guess take a little bit more convincing than that and to me that footage proves it for me as a filmmaker.
	It's, you know, cinematically a fake shot and the lights come up and you see it's a fake shot.
	But about one out of five people who watch A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, which you can see for free at Sobrelle.com, say exactly what you said, James.
	They say their expressions at their press conference look like they're at their mother's funeral instead of the victor at the winning locker room of the Super Bowl.
	And it's exactly true.
	They're all looking down like they hate lying, but they're doing it anyway.
	And then, if you notice carefully, there are teleprompters hidden in their desk To tell them what it was like to walk on the moon that only they should know what it was like.
	They're reading teleprompters.
	How was it to walk on the moon?
	Let me see here.
	Well, it was... I mean, it's unbelievable.
	And they contradict.
	They say... Someone asked him, do you remember seeing, you know, beautiful stars without an atmosphere?
	And he goes, well, I don't remember.
	You don't remember.
	You don't remember if you went to the Iron Tower when you were in Paris.
	And you don't remember because they couldn't fake the astrological positions of the constellations.
	They couldn't do it in the background.
	So they made an excuse that they just didn't show up photographically, even though you can see the space shuttle launch at sunrise and you see the stars in the background.
	You know, here on Earth with all the clouds.
	So I'm sure they showed up if they were really on the Moon, but they couldn't fake the position and the rotation of the Moon and the Earth and all that.
	So they acted like, you know, they never saw them or didn't remember.
	They didn't remember.
	And then Michael Collins interjects and says, I don't remember seeing any.
	Uh, he wasn't there, remember?
	He was supposed to be orbiting the moon.
	So, when they got the physical transcript of this, they corrected it, because they knew Michael Collins should not have said that.
	So, if you get the written transcript from 1969, it says, Buzz Aldrin says.
	I don't remember seeing any.
	So, lightning strikes twice in the same place.
	They made a mistake, and then they intentionally tried to cover it up in the transcript.
	You know, what can you do?
	I remember James Irwin came to talk to my school when I was a schoolboy, and I bought a copy of his book about going to the moon, obviously, and I remember the inscription, it said, is more important than man walking on the moon.
	And at the time I thought, well this is just, you know, he's just pushing his Christianity and blah blah blah.
	But of course, now with hindsight, I realise that this was his way of dealing with the fact that he'd spent his life, as a Christian particularly, living a complete lie.
	So he had to point out that God walking on Well, there's more information than that to the story, and it's actually included in my book, Moonman, The True Story of a Filmmaker on the CIA Hit List, which you can get at Cibrel.com.
	Oh, by the way, during Astronauts Gone Wild, And when I showed, uh, I think his name, uh, Ed Mitchell, the fake footage, he turns beet red, kicks me out of his house, literally kicks me from behind, and in the commotion, we leave our wireless microphone on the guy.
	So it's in his house with the door closed.
	My camera guy leaves the camera running in the rental car and the guy's driveways are pulling off.
	And we're unintentionally recording the private audio in the astronaut's house, where they're discussing whether or not to call the CIA to have me assassinated.
	Hmm, wasn't that interesting?
	So, if I'm some silly person who thinks they, you know, filmed it on Earth, why would the CIA have to be called unless I'm a journalist uncovering a genuine CIA threat?
	Well, in any case, Bill Casey was one of the first guests on Oprah, the guy I saw on TV who first opened my mind to the moon landings being fake after all he'd worked there and said they were fake.
	Right?
	And imagine my surprise if I say, James, hold on for a second.
	I'm getting a call from Buzz Aldrin right now.
	Hold on.
	Bill Kaysing, the leading investigator before I hit the scene, gets a call one day from James Irwin.
	Apollo 15.
	He's the guy who wrote the book, We Never Went to the Moon, it just appeared on Oprah, Telling the World.
	He worked for NASA, and it's fake.
	So, James Irwin tracked him down, called him up, in August of 1991.
	Says, Bill, we need to have a serious talk about the accusations in your book.
	He says, I just became a born-again Christian.
	We need to talk.
	Call me at this number three days from now.
	Three days later, when they're supposed to talk, coincidentally, the astronaut had a fatal heart attack.
	So, I think James Irwin was going to tell the truth about it.
	And when he and Bill were supposed to have that all-important conversation, the astronaut had a fatal heart attack.
	So, what can you do?
	He had a born-again experience and wanted to live life right and tell the world, and he never got that chance.
	They killed him beforehand.
	That's really interesting.
	I've got to ask you, how come you're still alive?
	Well, I guess divine intervention.
	And maybe they respect me in some way.
	That they respect my, I guess, diligence and never give up type of personality.
	It's also possible that the faction of the CIA that did this is, you know, dwindling people in that faction.
	Because I've made telephone calls, you know, Preparing to interview these astronauts in my follow-up film, Astronauts Gone Wild, which is also free to view at Sobrelle.com.
	And I thought, well, why didn't they warn them?
	They're obviously monitoring my phone calls.
	I guess the people, the good people in the CIA, which is probably most everybody there, doesn't like that they faked them in landing and just let them, you know, waddle through their own mistakes.
	And actually, I know for a fact that after
	I got this information about where the moon landing was filmed by Cyrus Eugene Akers that I guess his name is Eugene Krantz made a call to the CIA because my source a few days later his house was broken into with security cameras everywhere and they took all the information about his father being at the base at that time and then two days later this is less than two years ago
	Two men in black showed up and said, if you ever talk to Bart Sabrell again, we're going to make you and your wife and family disappear.
	So, I happen to know that the FBI investigated that.
	I happen to know that a Senator on the Intelligence Committee investigated that.
	I happen to know that the Press Secretary at the White House at the time investigated that.
	And so these people making those phone calls and sending people over to threaten my source, I think their phone calls were monitored and I'm not sure what happened to them.
	So, you know, they're good guys in the government doing their best, but I think the truth just has to come out and hopefully we'll have a house cleaning and make our government honorable again.
	Wouldn't that be nice?
	It would be lovely, but you only gave me the sort of sketchy account of when the CIA injected drugs.
	Tell me the full story.
	What happened?
	Well, how much time you got?
	It's two chapters in my book.
	One is called The Funny Thing Happened on the Way to CNN, and the other is called The Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Church, which is the following chapter.
	Basically, I, you know, had this millionaire who builds rockets for NASA, gave me a million dollars to make these movies, which I was making under the theory, it might be true, that they faked them.
	And then, three and a half years into the seven-year project, I pop in a tape that says, don't show to the public.
	And I'm like, what's going on here?
	And they're creating a one-foot model of the Earth, pretending it's floating in space.
	The lights come up, and it's a one-foot model.
	And then there's a third track of audio of the CIA telling them to fake a four-second radio delay.
	And I'm like, oh my gosh.
	They're faking being halfway to the moon, which means they can't go halfway to the moon, which means they didn't go to the moon.
	I'm like, I freak out.
	And I'm like, what have I done?
	I remember calling up Bill Kaysing.
	Bill, Bill, Bill, you're never going to believe this.
	They really didn't go to the moon.
	And he's like, well, Bart, I told you.
	And I'm like, no, you don't understand.
	They really didn't go.
	And it's like, well, Bart, I told you.
	You know, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt as long as possible, but later that day, my phone calls to him were interrupted.
	I go to church to get advice from the elders.
	What do I do?
	I have a blind roommate and a toddler son and proof that we didn't go to the moon in my house.
	Oops!
	What have I gotten myself into?
	I feel like you need to drive to CNN immediately and give this tape to your source there.
	So I'm leaving church.
	I'm like the last of 300 cars leaving church a Wednesday night driving past a, you know, a public swimming pool that had been closed for two hours since sundown.
	And a car backed into the driveway of the swimming pool.
	Didn't pull out one of the other 300 cars when church came.
	But when I drove by, boy, he pulls out.
	And I'm like, oh, he was waiting for me.
	Oops.
	So I pull over to the side of the road.
	Actually, I stop in the middle of the road first.
	And I say, you know, I'm not going anywhere.
	Until this guy's in front of me.
	I got all day.
	All night.
	So the guy, you know, stops in the middle of the road, figures out that he, you know, made a mistake and decides to give it up and to pass me.
	So I follow him.
	Know the enemy.
	Now, have you ever seen those documentaries of the great white shark where they lower like a piece of meat over the side of the boat and the great white shark comes out and you see that big eye?
	You know, they're soulless.
	No one is at home.
	It doesn't care if it's your daughter, or your wife, or your grandmother who falls over.
	They're going to eat them.
	They don't care.
	They're soulless.
	So when this guy gets on the freeway going back toward town, I get on the freeway going back toward town.
	There's two lanes one way, two lanes the other way in a medium, and I pull up alongside the guy.
	I say, I want to get a look at this guy.
	Who is this guy following me?
	And I see that soulless look that I've never seen in a human being up until that point in my life.
	Like he would kill me and go home and have a good dinner and not think about it tomorrow.
	And as soon as I look at him and he looks at me, everything dies on my car.
	The engine, the electricity.
	Someone says it was an EMP from him or satellite.
	Then he meets up with another car and I'm literally running back and forth as they're looping around trying to catch up with me.
	I find a taxi to drive me from Nashville to Atlanta and we get there before my source is there at 10 a.m.
	so we get a hotel and when we leave the hotel, And we're pulling out.
	Right as we pull out of the hotel parking lot, these three or four cop cars come zooming in with the lights on, sirens off, and stop a cab in front of the hotel.
	They stopped the wrong cab!
	They were after me, and I'm like, go, go, go, go!
	You know?
	And I have no idea where CNN is.
	I'm like, I don't know.
	We're going to have to ask directions.
	I'm going to have to use my phone.
	And we're surrounded by the police at CNN, one of which is a captain.
	Now, I always say, well, what would I do if I were them?
	You know, if I ran the CIA, I would have people in every town of 100,000 or more.
	And them being cops, With, what do you call it, cop box?
	Where they can go anywhere and do anything with a cop car and uniform.
	That works out pretty good.
	So I figure these three guys stopping me, one of which is a captain, they don't know why they're told not to let me interfere with my big broadcast beta cam tape.
	They're just told don't let them do it.
	So I tell them why.
	I show them here's my ID.
	Here's my media credentials from NBC.
	And let me tell you what's on this big broadcast quality tape.
	They're faking part of the moon mission right in front of your eyes.
	And you can see one of the younger guys is like...
	Startled and realizing I'm telling the truth, they won't let me in because it's around noon, there's people out there eating their lunch, and I'm like, am I free to go?
	Am I free to go?
	They don't say, so I assume that I am.
	I send the cab driver home, save yourself, and I'm darting around CNN trying to get away from these corrupt cops.
	And I guess I spend a few seconds too many, and then I'm surrounded by them, two or three other motorcycle cops, an unmarked white van, They immediately take the tapes and handcuff me.
	And fortunately for me, there was a lawyer who had an office entrance on the alley behind CNN.
	I guess that was the most affordable way to have a CNN Plaza address as an attorney.
	Had he not walked out at that moment, I probably wouldn't be having this conversation with you right now.
	Because I said, look, I'm being illegally arrested, I'm a journalist, and blah, blah, blah.
	And then I hear them say behind me, where's the thing?
	Oh, I thought you had the thing.
	Where's the thing?
	Oh, here's the thing.
	Well, they have on rubber gloves, and the thing looks kind of like, I don't know, something you get when you go into a hospital, like a little plastic band, where they put that around my wrists, where all my veins are.
	And a few seconds later, I feel like I'm on LSD.
	Absorbed into the flesh, that's why they were wearing rubber gloves.
	Right?
	And I'm so, you know, out of it, I'm throwing up.
	They put me in an unmarked white van, and there's some guy, it's pitch black, which takes effort.
	You know, this is broad daylight, and it's not a sliver of light in this van.
	And some guys in there are speaking in tongues or something.
	I don't know.
	I guess they're trying to confuse me or something.
	Anyway, they end up interrogating me.
	They had a clipboard with all these questions.
	Where's the original?
	Where'd you put the copies?
	And a number of other questions I don't remember, and I told them all.
	La La Land.
	I think they're my friends trying to help me.
	So, uh, and then I escape their custody and make my way back to Nashville.
	I have a friend in Atlanta who drove me back.
	I pee in a cup and I'm like, I got him.
	I got True Serum in my urine.
	I got him.
	I have proof I was drugged by the CIA with this exotic True Serum drug.
	All right.
	So I try to outwit the CIA, you know, and I give it to a friend to put in a lab in his name, not mine.
	But apparently they're monitoring all these conversations, you know, and they figured that out.
	After a few days, my friend calls back and says, well, yeah, there was a problem at the lab.
	And I'm like, what problem?
	He said, well, they had a break-in over the weekend.
	I'm like, yeah.
	He said, well, strange thing.
	The only thing stolen was your urine sample.
	You know, I've never gone into this publicly before, because I'm already saying something hard to believe.
	They faked the moon landing, which they did do.
	So I didn't go into this.
	But because I want to put this episode of my life behind me, that kind of, you know, derailed my life for 20 years, I'm putting it in there.
	Betty Grissom said, don't put this information in your book until after I die.
	I waited.
	You know, the gentleman Cyrus Eugene Akers, I waited until his son died to put the information in there.
	And there it is.
	We know when it was filmed, where it was filmed, the CIA code name.
	And he gave me a list of 15 VIP visitors who are allowed to eyewitness the faking of the moon landing, which President Johnson personally gave him.
	Hmm, isn't that interesting?
	And so, Eugene Kranz is on there, Buzz Aldrin is on there, Neil Armstrong is on there, and some people I'd never heard of who were CIA, NSA, Navy Intelligence, former and future NASA administrators, and some guy I'd never heard of, Robert Emmenager, who was like some science fiction writer to give his two cents on whether it looked real or not.
	So, what can you do?
	They faked it, and the sooner the public knows, the sooner our government can make progress.
	Tell me about Stanley Kubrick's involvement, because there's some footage on the internet, isn't there, of a bearded man who, it is claimed, was Kubrick, admitting that he filmed these fakes.
	Is that a fake or is that real?
	That's fake, because Cooper died in 1999, and they talk about the punch from Buzz Aldrin that I received, which happened in 2002.
	So it's fake.
	Now, why did they create this fake?
	Because it's true, and they're trying to discredit the fact that it is true.
	The fact is, they had two choices.
	They're faking the moon landing, they could choose the general of the media department at the Pentagon and have great security and amateur results, or They could choose the best filmmaker on the planet, who coincidentally in 1968 was shooting a film about going to the moon!
	You know?
	And the moon sets in 2001 and the moon pictures looked dramatically different, which I think was the point.
	They can't look the same because that means they're fake, right?
	If the real ones look like 2001 A Space Odyssey, then they're both fake.
	So they look distinctly different, which is clever.
	So, you know, Stanley Kubrick's best film is Apollo 11.
	You know, not Barry Lyndon or The Shining.
	There's been several films and a couple of books about clues that Kubrick left, particularly in The Shining, about Apollo 11.
	And if one quarter of the stuff in these books and films is true, it's a lot.
	Because you may remember the little red rum boy, you know, getting up with a hand-knit shirt that has Apollo 11 on it.
	You know?
	And get this, Stanley Kubrick insisted That his last film, Eyes Wide Shut.
	Just imagine everyone is looking at that picture of Buzz Aldrin with his arm bent, with wrinkles.
	All throughout a suit that's supposed to be pressurized.
	I mean, how many wrinkles are in a balloon, right?
	There's so many clues that he's not on the moon in that one picture, but our eyes are wide shut, right?
	So Stanley Kubrick insists he won't sign the contract with the studio unless they release his last film, Eyes Wide Shut, on a particular day.
	July 16th, 1999.
	He insists.
	They don't know why.
	He says, I'm not signing until you agree To release it on that day, the 30th anniversary of the launch to the moon.
	So, I think, yeah, Kubrick did film it, and because that is starting to get out, they created this fake Kubrick confession, so that it can come out that it's fake, therefore Kubrick didn't do it, which is part of the, I guess, misinformation campaign, I don't know.
	Yes, are there any other examples of that, of disinformation put out to discredit people like you?
	Well, I mean, if they really went to the moon, and it's so obvious, right?
	Then anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.
	I mean, then why are there thousands of videos and hundreds of websites that took, you know, tens of thousands of hours to construct to reassure us that the obvious moon landings, you know, are real, right?
	If they're fake.
	Thou dost protest too much.
	And if you type in fake moon landing, you don't get fake moon landing.
	You get why it's real.
	No, no, no.
	Don't listen to Bart.
	I just uploaded the confession of the son of Cyrus Eugene Akers on Sobrelle.com and immediately, you know, if they take it down, it only means I'm right.
	So they put a big block on it.
	No, no, no.
	Don't listen to this guy who said his father was there and told him on his deathbed that he eyewitnessed faking it.
	No, no, no.
	It's real.
	I mean, why would they care if they really went to the moon?
	Why are there so many videos to reassure us?
	And why, when you type in moon landing fraud, do you get the exact opposite?
	That everyone's trying to reassure us that the moon landing is real.
	Because I think they know if the truth comes out, it's going to cause such an outrage of the public that, you know, be the finger out of the die can hopefully cause reform.
	That's why they're still to this day trying to convince us that the moon landings are fake, even though it's the first time in history a technological milestone couldn't be repeated 50 years later, and the first time in history that technology was a thousand times greater in the past than in the future.
	You know, totally illogical, but they keep defending it anyway.
	Do you think it's possible even now to send a manned spaceship to the moon?
	No, because if they did, the Artemis rocket would have humans on board instead of mannequins.
	Right?
	One of the clips, my book, Moonman, which is at Sobrelle.com, in audio, I read it, Kindle in print, it's interactive.
	There are actually 16 video links.
	I write a chapter and then I say, go to Sobrelle.com, click on video link 1, then read a chapter, link 2.
	We have Kelly Smith, from NASA, saying out of his own mouth, Something most people don't know, which is a thousand miles above the earth and extending an additional 30,000 miles is this huge field of radiation that you'd have to go through to the moon and back.
	And he says out of his own mouth, number one, it's dangerous, meaning lethal, and number two, get this, the technology necessary for an astronaut to go through it to the moon and back and survive has yet to be invented.
	The guy says so out of his own mouth.
	He says the ability to go to the moon has not yet been invented.
	And he's a NASA employee.
	They're space shuttle people saying maybe someday we'll be able to go to the moon.
	I mean, it boggles the mind.
	How can we go a thousand times farther, with one millionth the computing power of a cell phone, fifty years ago, than we can go today, which is only one thousandth the distance to the moon?
	Well, they don't have enough fuel, and they die from the radiation, and a number of other reasons as well.
	They can't even launch the Artemis rocket on the first, second, third, or fourth try.
	I mean, that's to send an unmanned probe.
	You know, they were originally supposed to put that orbiting the moon in 2018.
	I mean, I don't understand this.
	NASA has never kept a schedule, except the most complicated mission ever done.
	There's never been an aerospace endeavor that worked getting off the ground on the first occasion, except the most complicated one ever done.
	You know, there's so many inconsistencies to that.
	So much photography.
	The radiation you're talking about is presumably the Van Allen Belt, isn't it?
	Right, yeah.
	And you presumably need to be surrounded by lead or something to survive that kind of radiation, or I don't know what.
	Yeah, I mean, the radiation protection that Apollo 11 had to allegedly go through this radiation field for one hour, that when they set up probes with dagger counters in the 50s, the dagger counters broke because the needles vibrated too much.
	It's less radiation than they put on your lap when you have a dental x-ray.
	I mean, less protection.
	They give you more protection for a one-thirtieth of a second dental x-ray radiation than they had going through this field that NASA admits would kill you.
	And in fact, I think in 2014, they sent two probes.
	I mean, an unmanned probe specifically to the radiation to get two Geiger counter readings and come back.
	They did that.
	They did that in 2014.
	So I call up NASA.
	I say, hey, you used tax dollars on this non-military mission to measure radiation in outer space.
	May I please have those Geiger counter readings?
	They say, sorry, Mr. Suprell, that's a military secret.
	And I'm like, well, wait a minute.
	When you send a probe to the Sun to find out how much hydrogen is in the atmosphere, the amount of hydrogen in the Sun's atmosphere is not a military secret, it's just a part of nature.
	And when you send a probe to Jupiter to find out how much helium is in Jupiter's atmosphere, the amount of helium in Jupiter's atmosphere, that's not a military secret, it's just nature.
	So why would the Geiger counter readings And the Van Allen radiation belt be a military secret.
	Because if they release them, it would prove, again, that they could never have gone through and survived on the way to the moon and back.
	And the guy says so.
	Kelly Smith, I have the clip at Sobrelle.com.
	He says, the technology to go through this radiation to the moon and back and survive has yet to be invented.
	So how did they go to the moon in 1969?
	You know?
	I mean, it boggles the mind.
	Does this not make you wonder how many of the other space endeavors are also fake?
	I mean, how do we know?
	Well, we don't, and they certainly can't be trusted.
	The early 1970s probes of Mars, they look fake to me.
	And some of the current probes to Mars look fake to me.
	This whole thing that they discovered You know, alien artifacts, pyramids, and a face on Mars.
	How do we know they just didn't make those up?
	They made up pictures of an astronaut standing on the moon when he was at Cannon Air Force Base in New Mexico.
	So, I think they want us to believe in aliens when aliens don't exist.
	There was a great TED Talk.
	They said, you know, intelligent civilizations have radios.
	And all these signals, I love Lucy, are going off in all directions until the end of time and can be picked up hundreds of thousands of light years away.
	And they listen to the entire universe and there's not a single intelligent radio frequency, not one, that's been discovered in 50 years.
	Maybe we're it.
	You see?
	They want us to believe the opposite.
	They want us to believe that life is abundant.
	They want us to believe in aliens.
	Remember, Ed Mitchell spent his whole life saying, aliens are real and the moon landings are real.
	And I say aliens are just as real as the moon landing.
	So all those pictures on Mars, if they fake pictures on the moon, how do we know they didn't fake those on Mars to trick us into believing in aliens?
	You see?
	Yes, I understand that.
	So there is an element, an extra element in this.
	It's a kind of, it's to turn people's Thoughts away from Earth, away from God, towards this sort of infinite blackness.
	And we're being encouraged to think that, yeah, there are other civilizations around, you know, other species dotted around the galaxy and, yeah.
	Besides the financial element, that would be another reason for these dark forces to do it.
	I mean, I wrote an article.
	Sabrell.com is called, Are There Really Aliens From Outer Space?
	And I form my opinion, James, based on my study of the experts' opinion.
	Then I just pass them on.
	And the top two UFO researchers, one French, one American, spent four decades interviewing people about UFOs.
	They had a press conference about 10, 15 years ago in Washington.
	And they came to the same conclusion, independent of one another.
	Number one, UFOs are real.
	Number two, they're not from outer space.
	They're from Earth.
	And number three, they think they're demonic.
	You know, I thought Ancient Aliens was a one-time special, and I find out it's been on for three years.
	So, if aliens are really fallen angels, agents of Lucifer, who was a fallen angel, And, you know, they did a DNA study about 15 years ago called the EVE Project.
	And they took DNA from every nationality on Earth.
	And they traced it backwards.
	And they said, scientific fact, all humans came from one woman, just like the Bible said.
	So, you know what these, you know, ancient alien guy says?
	Okay, uh, that's true.
	We can't argue against silence, but, uh, aliens made us.
	Well, if aliens are really fallen angels and their leader is Lucifer, what they're really saying is we were made by Lucifer instead of God.
	Isn't that interesting?
	It says so in Ezekiel, that Satan wanted to ascend and receive the honor of creation.
	How about that?
	And that's what this TV show is doing.
	Yeah, okay.
	They never asked the third grade question in three years.
	If we were made by aliens, who made them?
	I guess people want to not believe in God, so they can just go on sinning.
	Because if there's a God, then there are rules for God's universe.
	And I guess they'd have to conform, so I guess they figure a way in their mind to say things made themselves.
	Right?
	Evolution really says a lower form of life made a higher form of life.
	That doesn't make any sense.
	How can something without a brain make a brain?
	How can a kindergarten know algebra?
	But, that's what they say.
	Do you have any idea how much money has been spent by the US taxpayer on NASA since its inception?
	Well, I mean, the moon landing of today's dollars costs $200 billion, so I would guess probably it's getting close to 2 trillion.
	That's one moon landing?
	Yeah.
	Well, the Apollo program.
	So I would say over the years, I don't know, it's probably getting close to 1.5 trillion, maybe 2 trillion, something like that.
	And where has that money gone?
	Well, you know, you said at the beginning there, James, it's a front.
	I used to go to this fried chicken place in Nashville and I would up late and I'd go there like at three, four o'clock in the morning and there'd be this, I'd be the only person in the restaurant.
	But there was this lady there with like a 20-line telephone, taking call after call and writing things down.
	You know, it was a gambling front or something.
	And the CIA admits they do this all the time.
	They created, get this, an encryption, you know, service for world governments that actually allows them to decrypt it.
	Just so that they can decrypt all the, you know, their friends' personal correspondence and everything.
	You know, it boggles the mind.
	So it's just a front.
	That's what it is.
	I mean, come on, a Moon Rover that is one-tenth the parts of a Jeep doesn't cost a hundred million dollars, right?
	Yeah.
	I was just thinking, a Capricorn One.
	about faking the moon landings.
	How did they get away with it?
	I mean, given that we know that Hollywood is completely corrupt and it's completely, you know, in tune with the whole sort of CIA, the powers that be, etc, etc.
	Did they make that film to mock us or what?
	To show that, to reveal the method?
	I think people in Hollywood saw, like I did as a filmmaker, that these, you know, moon shots were taken with an electrical light, which means they're on Earth, right?
	No need for, you know, electrical lights when there's no atmosphere and it's 20 times brighter on the moon than a noon on a desert, right?
	So I think people in Hollywood saw that it was fake.
	They didn't want to insult the moon landing, so Capricorn 1 was about a fake Mars landing.
	But it followed a similar plot that was actually based on Bill Kaysing's book, my original source, We Never Went to the Moon, where he originally thought they weren't even on the rocket.
	When we discovered this fake footage of them pretending to be halfway to the moon, it did demonstrate they were in Earth orbit the entire time.
	They just never left Earth orbit.
	And what a surprise, 50 years later, they still can't leave Earth orbit.
	How about that?
	And so, it's a beautiful film, and it starred the top people of the day.
	You know, James Brolin, Elliot Gould, Karen Black, Brenda Vacara, Telly Savalas.
	O.J.
	Simpson.
	O.J.
	Simpson, and Hal Holbrook.
	And it's an extremely well-made movie.
	I like it a lot.
	And it's amazing how life imitates art.
	Elliot Gould's character worked for an NBC affiliate who was fired for working on the story.
	I worked for an NBC affiliate and I was fired for working on the story.
	They tampered with his car so that the brakes didn't work and the accelerator pedal got stuck.
	They tampered with my car to where the brakes didn't work and the accelerator pedal got stuck.
	Pretty interesting, isn't it?
	And we both worked for an NBC affiliate in both cases.
	How did you survive that one?
	I put it in drive and pulled up the emergency brake as the car's trying to take off in a subdivision, you know, at 80 miles an hour.
	And, uh, I had the car looked at and said somebody rigged it.
	Yeah, they also drained my brake fluid and disconnected the brake fluid low warning light, you know, and they messed with the cruise control so that the accelerator pedal would get stuck and then of course they drained the brake fluid so that I could, you know, would take off as soon as I turned on the car at 80 miles an hour, so.
	Do you feel safer in the Philippines?
	I don't think it matters anymore.
	I mean, we have 3,000 architects and engineers openly saying it's impossible for a pinhole airplane to bring down a skyscraper.
	And so what?
	20 years later, it's old news.
	They don't care.
	And the moon landing is even older news.
	Now, I do think if the truth came out, I mean, if it was publicly known that it was fake, yeah, maybe it would cause a change in the government.
	Probably cause the stock market to crash and the dollar to crash.
	You know, but if you have gangrene on your arm, you can pretend like you don't have it and you'll die.
	So we have to face facts.
	We have to be willing to look bad.
	We have to be willing for the stock market and the dollar to crash by exposing the moon landing fraud.
	We have to tell the truth.
	You know, that's just what works spiritually.
	What's your opinion on Elon Musk?
	I was watching a three-part BBC documentary, so obviously it was all lies about Elon Musk, selling us this story, giving us the official narrative on Elon Musk.
	And of course, when Elon Musk talks about the moon landings, it's, yeah, yeah, of course they're real, you know, it's what kind of got me into this, my whole SpaceX thing and yadda yadda.
	Yeah, what's your view?
	I think he's sincere.
	I think he's playing ball.
	He needs NASA's cooperation to fulfill his dreams.
	So he's not going to rock the boat.
	I know for a fact he has a copy of my book, Moon Man, and I'm sure he's read it, and I'm sure he agrees.
	Has he read it?
	Not going to say at this time.
	The fact is, he has a copy of it, I'm sure he read it, and I'm sure he knows the moon landings are fake, and he wants to... he needs NASA, and needs their cooperation to do his dreams, and so he's playing ball.
	I can't really blame him for it.
	I mean, otherwise they'll pull the plug on him, and he'll be stuck.
	So, what can you do?
	It's a better moral decision... Well, I saw the...
	On the documentary they showed this press conference given by Neil Armstrong and one of the other astronauts who were saying it's outrageous that this important space project should be given to the private sector, it should be government funded, it should be under the auspices of NASA.
	What was that all about?
	Well, that way they can control the narrative and fake More missions.
	If independent people are doing it, then it would expose the truth.
	There was a guy who owned a company that was going to launch a probe and land it at the Apollo 11 alleged landing site where there's nothing there.
	I think it was called aerobic technologies or something like that.
	And NASA says you cannot do that.
	We will zap your probe until it crashes on the moon if you attempt to land and take pictures of the Apollo 11 landing site.
	Can you believe that?
	So they don't want independent space people investigating the moon landing fraud or doing anything else because it would prove it.
	Most space shuttle astronauts know very well it was fake, but they want to go to the space station and be an astronaut, so they don't say anything, other than an occasional clue.
	Is the space station real?
	I think so.
	I think there's probably more than one space station, at least two and maybe three.
	I mean, it doesn't take three days to go up 250 miles, right?
	Not at 17,000 miles an hour.
	You know, when the Soviets launched their rocket to go to the space station, it got there like in one-fifth the amount of time.
	And you know what the Americans' excuse for was it?
	The Soviets getting to the space station in one-fifth the time?
	They said they have better math than we do.
	You see, what they're doing is they're going to other space stations and doing this, that, and the other, then going to the one everybody knows about.
	And so, you know, I don't see why Russia knows that 2 plus 2 equals 4 better than America, and somehow their orbital math to dock with the space station is, you know, 500% quicker, because they have better math.
	I know, they're out there going to other space stations first, is I think what they're doing.
	I've seen various videos on the internet where these astronauts or space station people are trying to show that they're in zero gravity, but then there's a glass of water they've left on the table.
	All these sort of bloopers where it reveals that they're faking it.
	So, I mean, I'm not sure what to believe anymore.
	Well, I mean, the Earth is a sphere.
	As soon as Bill Kaysing published his book, they said, oh, you must fake the moon landings.
	If you think the moon landings are fake, you think the Earth is flat.
	As soon as my film came out, oh, you must think the Earth is flat.
	As soon as my book comes out, oh, you must think the Earth is flat.
	The Earth is a sphere, and NASA fakes moon missions.
	Both are true.
	And, yeah, I mean, why they're faking Space station trips?
	I don't know.
	Maybe the thing crashed and burned up over the Indian Ocean and they're too ashamed to admit it.
	I don't know.
	And so they're faking that it's still up there.
	I have no idea.
	Who knows?
	Maybe the thing is heading off toward an asteroid or comet.
	I don't know.
	But they're liars.
	- It's a pretty, it must be a pretty, well, it must be a pretty tough thing for all those men who took part in these projects and have to spend their whole time just lying, living a lie.
	How do they deal with it?
	Well, tough for some and easy for others, right?
	Some people kill people and it's tough for them.
	Some people kill people and it's easy for them.
	I mean, they love the glory without the risk, right?
	They got to claim they walked on the moon with zero risk involved, or very little risk involved.
	And they got all the glory, and all the books, and all the money, and all the fame.
	And I guess some people eat that up.
	I feel sorry for them.
	If people run the world corruptly, they will have gained the world and lost their soul.
	And that's a bad trade, if you ask me.
	I've suddenly remembered, and I wasn't going to ask you about this because it's only just occurred to me, but the Challenger.
	What's that all about?
	All the people who supposedly blew up with the Challenger have been found in looking remarkably similar to their younger selves in positions of academe and so on around the US.
	Do you know anything about this?
	I think they did die.
	I think they had protocol to launch only if it was like 43 degrees and above and it got down to 41 or something.
	They launched anyway.
	Their arrogance cost them the lives of those people.
	I remember just in Nashville, Tennessee, when I was a teenager, several times, someone said, oh, I saw you at Kmart.
	I saw you at the store.
	And I'm like, I wasn't there.
	I had a double in the same city.
	It's not that difficult to find two or three or four people who look a lot alike.
	I think this is a red herring to send people on a diversion when the real issue is the corrupt moon landing fraud.
	And this is a distraction from that.
	That's interesting, because, I mean, like, it's not just that they look like these characters, but they've got... it's a bit like somebody spotting a look-alike whose name was Bob Cibril, or something.
	I mean, the names are so similar that it's sort of... the odds against it seem to be... I mean, I'm... I don't think it matters.
	I think it's irrelevant.
	I don't know, I think there's something... It's like Kubrick probably did film The Moon Landing, but it's irrelevant.
	It doesn't matter who filmed it.
	The fact is it was fake.
	That's what matters.
	And maybe the Mars probes are fake and the Challenger this, that and the other.
	It doesn't matter.
	The issue really is the moon landing fraud.
	That's the one that they had the audacity to put in the encyclopedia, to put on coins, to put in stamps.
	To teach at every university.
	I was hired by the University of Pittsburgh Social Club.
	Some social sorority, fraternity, whatever, paid me $2,000 to go and lecture and show a funny thing happened on the way to the moon and the university forbid it.
	They told him Bart Sabrell is not allowed to show his film or to lecture on campus.
	Universal thinking.
	It's to think alike, right?
	I asked my doctor.
	I said, hey, what do you know about natural medicine?
	You know what she said?
	All I know is to give you this pill for this illness like they taught me in university, which is financed by the pharmaceutical companies.
	You know?
	I mean, you would think debating the latest ideas is what universities are all about, but they're banning my film and me from stepping foot on the campus to expose the moon landing fraud.
	They forbid it.
	Mind-boggling, isn't it?
	And this is America, right?
	How many, what percentage, what percentage of the population would you say believes the official narrative?
	And, I mean, now, how many people are sceptical?
	Well, I'd say that number's growing every day, because most of the people who wept and waved their flag and prayed, they're dying off, and people are now able to look at it objectively.
	I mean, when you see shadows intersecting at 90 degrees from objects 5 feet apart, when sunlight is always parallel, hello, it's electrical light, which means they're not on the moon!
	I mean, there's so much proof that they didn't go.
	This emotional attachment that people have, they're dying off.
	I think right now, every time there's an anniversary and they're forced to address the issue of people who say that it was fake, they quote a survey from like 20, 30 years ago.
	Well, only 10%.
	Well, I think it's more like 25% now doubt the authenticity of the moon missions.
	And three-quarters of the public says Oswald did not kill Kennedy.
	Half says the buildings that collapsed on 9-11 were not done by airplanes.
	That's half of the public.
	Right?
	Government doesn't care.
	You can have three quarters of the people want the Kennedy assassination files open and they'll still say we're still not going to open them.
	Tough.
	You have William Binney go on national TV saying the NSA blackmail Supreme Court justices to vote the way that they tell them to.
	No one cares.
	No one does anything about it.
	Not a single congressional investigation because all the agencies supposed to investigate it are corrupt themselves.
	It's mind-boggling.
	And then all these pharmaceutical, you know, former CEOs that run into agencies that are supposed to, you know, objectively look at pharmaceutical drugs.
	It boggles the mind.
	We have, you know, the fox running the hen house at every government agency in the country.
	Pathetic.
	Do you get a lot of grief for your opinions?
	I mean, have you suffered for it, apart from the stories you've told?
	Yeah, I mean, I talk about this in the book.
	How do people react to you?
	Well, I mean, I was, you know, ostracized by family members and friends and kicked out of a church and received numerous death threats, dozens or hundreds of death threats from people over the years.
	All I'm saying is that the government lied, at least on one occasion.
	The fact that people foam at the mouth For saying that the moon landings are fake is all the more proof that they were fake!
	You know what I mean?
	Thou dost protest too much!
	There is a saying in a film that says the likelihood of one individual being right increases in direct proportion to the intensity to which others are trying to prove him wrong.
	So, all these websites and films to defend the moon landings are all the more proof They're fake, because if they were real, they wouldn't need them.
	If you have to support this structure, it means the structure is not sound.
	Which means they're fake.
	Well, this is the thing.
	When I started tweeting about you and stuff, there are a few people who clearly have dedicated their lives to debunking people like you and debunking your outrageous theories.
	But how do they do it?
	What are the techniques they use to try and argue the unarguable?
	I don't follow those people.
	It seems to me kind of odd.
	If the moon landings are so obviously real, that someone would dedicate their life to defending them every day and arguing with people on the internet.
	No, no, no, the moon landings are real.
	I mean, if they're so real, then they should speak for themselves.
	The fact that you constantly have to keep defending all this evidence that indicates that they're fake is all the more proof that it's fake.
	Get a life!
	I mean, come on!
	Yeah.
	You know, if they went, they should speak for themselves.
	Yes.
	What can you do?
	Did you ever imagine, when you were growing up, This is how you'd end up.
	This is how I... Do you sometimes wake up and think, how did I get here?
	Yeah, I've thought that many times.
	In fact, if you go to Sibrell.com, there's two videos on the homepage.
	One is of the confession of, the deathbed confession of the guy who was there watching them film the fake moon landing at Canon Air Force Base, Cyrus Eugene Akers.
	And the other one is kind of a music Video that I wrote the lyrics to, that kind of summarizes my two decades career derailment of, you know, investigating this unintentionally.
	Just one thing led to another, to another, and it ended up being true that they faked it.
	I mean, it's sad.
	I wish they went to the moon.
	It'd be a much better place, but the fact is they didn't.
	And whoever controls the past controls the future, which means until they tell the truth, that they lied about the moon landing, those criminals are going to be running the government until the end of time.
	It's a dangerous condition to be in.
	Are you happy with your life?
	Has it worked out okay for you in the end?
	I mean, are you comfortable?
	I mean, it is... Like I said, originally, James, I turned down the project because I could see that it very well could have been faked and I didn't want to risk my life for what Nixon did.
	I said, you know, I'm relentless, I like puzzles and if I start looking into this and they did fake it, It could be dangerous.
	I turned it down.
	And then about five years went by and I realized, you know, I'm going to die anyway.
	And if they faked it, that's actually more profound historically than if they had actually gone.
	And that truth needs to be known or mankind will be stifled from progress.
	Did this come out of your Christianity or did your Christianity sort of come after, as it were?
	Well, you know, certain things have a smell.
	I don't know if you've ever smelled a dead animal, like, you know, in the wall or something, you know, in an old building.
	There's certain things that have a spiritual smell.
	You know, you go, you visit a church and there's something just not right about it.
	You can't quite put your finger on it, but there's something unholy about certain churches.
	And when I started looking into this, you know, something just told me this could very well be true.
	And there's a spiritual message here.
	You know, I open up the film, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, with the Tower of Babel.
	And until about 200 years ago, for the last 6,000 years, technology was simply the tallest building you could make.
	And it says in the Bible, they only did it to boast that their building was the tallest.
	Never finished.
	And I show scripture where there is pride, then comes disgrace.
	And then the Titanic, the ship that God himself could not sink, also never finished.
	And Tricky Dick, when he knew they weren't there, saying putting a man on the moon was the greatest event since creation itself.
	See, it's a blasphemous event.
	It's mankind's greatest accomplishment.
	They're equating it with the creation of the earth when it's complete fraud.
	I think it's blasphemous.
	And I suspect the truth will come out.
	I don't think God's going to let it just lie there forever.
	I think the truth will out.
	Well, Bart, thank you.
	Now, you hardly ever mentioned your website, so I think you should mention it one more time, so we can know where we can find your movies.
	Yeah, I mean, you can watch all of my films for free.
	It's my last name, Sabrell, S as in Sam, I, B as in boy, R-E-L.
	Sibrell.com.
	I read the audio book.
	There's also Kindle in print and there's 16 interactive video links which you can see for free.
	Million-dollar movie, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, that showcases fake footage right in front of your eyes with the CIA telling them how to do it.
	And the book is interactive.
	It kind of, you know, says read a chapter then go to clip one, read a chapter go to clip two.
	All of that is at Sibrell.com.
	That... I hope you're selling it.
	I hope you're not giving everything away for free.
	I mean, how do you make a living?
	Well, I'm making some money off of book sales and I hope I will be producing my first feature film next year.
	So... Oh yes, what's that?
	Tell us before we go.
	Well, no.
	You'll have to wait and see.
	If Bart Sabrell has a feature film released next year, you'll know what it is.
	It's a well-known Hollywood actor-producer starring in it and producing it.
	Allegedly, it's theoretically going to be in pre-production in June of next year.
	And that's my dream, and that's what this song on Sobrelle.com indicates.
	My career to be a feature filmmaker, to make kind of spiritual, motivational films, was kind of derailed with this, you know, moon landing fraud investigation now.
	God willing, it's back on track, and the book Moon Man, the true story of a filmmaker on the CIA hit list, is kind of my final statement on the matter, containing much information never before released as in the book, and on the website Sobrelle.com.
	OK, I'm going to go over to Sobrelle.com and gorge myself on more Bart Sobrelle moon stuff.
	That's great.
	Bart, it's been really lovely talking to you.
	Likewise, James.
	It's fun getting you on the podcast.
	Thank you very much.
	Sure.
	It's been great fun.
	I'm going to show this to lots of sceptics to annoy them.
	And may I remind viewers and listeners, I really appreciate your support on Substack, on Locals, on Patreon and subscribe stuff.
	And Bart, thank you very much again.
	Sure, James.

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