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June 29, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:44:38

Jerry Marzinsky

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	I know I always say I'm excited about this as a special guest, or in this case, my special guests, but I really am excited.
	to the Jell-E-C-O, to me, James Jell-E-C-O.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this special guest, or in this case, my special guests, but I really am excited.
	I've got back one of the most, I think, Gerry Marzinski, welcome back Gerry.
	You were one of the most popular podcasts I've done.
	I think you blew a lot of people's minds.
	And I think we're going to blow some more minds this this week, because... That's hard to believe.
	It's like, what?
	Yes.
	Yes, Jerry, you, a humble psychotherapist, a retired psych, well, psychotherapist from Arizona, and you blew everyone's mind.
	And we also have Anonymous.
	That's how you want to be introduced, isn't it, Anonymous?
	Yes, greetings all.
	Yeah, Anonymous, it's good to have you on the show as well.
	And you're going to add an extra dimension to this podcast because you've had some of the experiences that Jerry outlined in the previous Fantastic podcast we did.
	So, Jerry, before we deep dive into your crazy discoveries, just tell us briefly about yourself.
	I recommend people listen to our first podcast first, but for those who can't be bothered, just tell us a bit about your background.
	Well, I've spent I've spent 35 years on the front lines of mental health here in the U.S., in places that most people would never get into.
	I'm a retired licensed therapist with over 40 years of experience working on the front lines of mental health in a number of different institutions.
	I've been studying the thought processes of schizophrenics and the criminally insane for close to 40 years now.
	I held the position of second lieutenant in the Arizona Civil Air Patrol.
	I was a scoutmaster.
	I got a B.A.
	in psychology from Temple University and a master's degree in counseling from the University of Georgia.
	Two years of Ph.D.
	study in a psychology program.
	I was awarded the state of Arizona's Meritorious Service Award.
	I'm a commercial pilot.
	I'm a certified scuba diver, long-distance motorcycle rider, and the author of the amazing journey into the psychotic mind.
	And I've been on the front lines for a long time, and I discovered a lot of stuff there.
	You know, the voices... I've been studying the voices schizophrenics heard for about 35 years.
	Maybe more.
	Yes.
	And that's what I'm just going to give a sort of shortened version of what we learned on your on our last podcast together, which is that you broke with the The sort of traditions of psychotherapy and the accepted traditions of psychotherapy.
	I mean, it's almost it's almost forbidden, isn't it?
	In mainstream psychotherapy to ask paranoid schizophrenics.
	about the voices in their heads, about what they're saying.
	Because as far as psychiatry is concerned, at least conventional psychiatry, the voices in their heads are auditory hallucinations.
	They're not real and therefore by, correct me if I'm wrong, and therefore by asking patients questions about the voices in their head, you are encouraging them in their delusion and perhaps even making them worse.
	Is that a fair summary?
	Well, that's what psychiatry says.
	That's what the psychiatric mafia said.
	And twice I've been pulled up on the carpet for asking schizophrenics what their voices were telling them.
	And when I got to the state hospital, I worked at Central State Hospital back in the 70s, which is the biggest psychiatric institution on the planet.
	And one of the first things I noticed was nobody was curious about what these voices were telling these people.
	But it was clear that whatever these voices were, they were driving their behavior.
	They were telling them to do crazy things.
	They were telling them to hurt people.
	They were telling them to hurt themselves.
	And nothing in school prepared me for this.
	In school, they said, oh, yeah, they're hallucinations.
	That's what, you know, and I was thinking, okay, if they're hallucinations, they're like word salad.
	You're not going to be able to make anything out of them.
	Until I saw patients walking around, you know, arguing with them and carrying on conversations with them.
	So, these were full-length conversations.
	They weren't piecemeal.
	They weren't scattered all over the place.
	It was like listening to somebody talk to somebody else on the telephone, where you can hear one half of the conversations.
	What I found out was that the voices weren't hallucinations.
	They ran
	Specific patterns and they ran these same patterns and all institutions Several of them emergency rooms mental health centers psych hospitals private psych hospitals And that you know to get get to those Just I have a bunch of stuff here, but I know you want to get to an on there I found out that they were consistently negative you know they They weren't random
	You know, they were always negative.
	They were always telling the person rotten things about themselves and everybody else.
	They were telling them to hurt other people.
	They were telling them to do bad things.
	They were telling them to kill themselves.
	So this was a constant trait.
	They were consistently negative.
	They never said anything positive.
	And if they did, it was only to trip the guy up and get him to do something bad later.
	They would tell patients where drugs were.
	You know, so if they ran out of drugs, especially with meth, the voices would tell them, you'd be at this place at this time and somebody will come with the meth.
	And that happened.
	I heard that from over and over again from several different people.
	They were anti-religious, was one of the first things I saw at the state hospital, is that when the patient started reading the Bible or going to church, the voices acted up.
	They went nuts.
	That's what really triggered, that's what in my occurrence, it started to amplify when I started to read kind of the Bible on my own for the first time.
	But I'll get more into that later on in the show.
	Yeah.
	Chime in anywhere along in here.
	So that was, that was strange.
	What kind of hallucination would be anti-religious?
	What kind of hallucination would act up every time the guy walked into a church or every time he tried to read the Bible?
	You know, that's odd.
	And with the negativity, what holds them on such a negative pattern?
	I mean, they're not random.
	They're held onto this pattern.
	They're not neutral.
	They're not positive.
	They're consistently negative.
	They're trying to cause destruction of their target or host or to incite as much negative energy as possible.
	So you know, we all get negative thoughts sometimes.
	But what these I'll call them entities do is that they amplify them in your system that they're like prodding you to get you to get more and more reactive to kind of diminish yourself to destroy yourself.
	Yeah, they want you upset because what they do is they feed off of that negative emotional energy that they generate.
	And I've had scores of schizophrenics tell me that after the voice is hit, they're completely energetically drained.
	They have no energy left.
	Some of them couldn't even get out of bed.
	Yeah, you can't get out of bed.
	I mean, you're wiped out for hours afterwards.
	You don't even want to move.
	And I don't know how they do that, but they do it.
	And it's consistent.
	They feed off of that negative emotional energy that they generate in their victim.
	Is it always voices, or is it some type?
	I mean, can anyone see these things?
	Well, I'll get into that later on the show.
	The answer to that is yes.
	I have.
	And they look different, and I've felt them.
	I mean, I can't see them, I can't hear them, but I can feel them.
	And when they're around, it's like this icky electrical feeling, that cold electrical feeling.
	There's no other feeling like it.
	What Jerry had mentioned about like the conversation, there aren't random words or random phrases that his patients were saying.
	They were full-blown conversations.
	And Jerry mentioned it's almost like somebody talking on a cell phone.
	You're only hearing the target's conversation.
	You're not hearing what the entities are saying.
	And hallucinations wouldn't really do that.
	They were random.
	They'd be like smorgasbord words or things like that.
	This was, it would cause full-blown conversations because the patients were actually having conversations with these entities.
	Well, they would also physically torment patients, too, where they would give them headaches or body aches or stomach aches or make them nauseous.
	If they tried to talk about them, they would warn patients not to talk about them.
	They'd warn patients not to tell psychiatry about them because they didn't like those medicines.
	The voices want to keep their victims stirred up all the time to generate that negative emotional energy.
	And these psychiatric drugs are major tranquilizers.
	They're toxic, major tranquilizers, but they're major tranquilizers and they calm them down.
	So the voices don't like psychiatrists and they don't like these medicines.
	Oh, yeah.
	When I was doing the voices, they would say things like, if you tell anybody about this, you're going to end up being sedated for the rest of your life and stuck in a psychiatric institute.
	And no one's ever going to believe you.
	So don't ever tell anybody what's going on or what you're encountering.
	I mean, you become terrified as a target of these entities, how to react, how to deal with them.
	And of course, if you speak up, you're considered by mainstream society to be mad or insane.
	But there's definitely something more going on beyond this material realm that we don't quite understand.
	Do they sound human?
	Or do they have a distinctive alien sound or what?
	Well, based on my experiences, you know, at times, at times, it was almost like my own voice talking to me, but it quite wasn't my own voice.
	Like I went into a state of kind of a split mind to deal with it.
	And Sometimes it was actually sound like it was in my head almost like an internal internal battle and other times I could actually have heard where the voice were outside where I would call those pure auditory hallucinations.
	There was one time when I was in the psychiatric hospital where I probably wasn't sleeping, but it was like a cacophony of all different voices talking at once, almost like when you're in a movie theater or a show before the play is about to start.
	You have people having all these individual conversations, children, men and women.
	There was a time when I was in psychiatric hospital.
	I heard that going on for many hours, these conversations, and I really wasn't listening to them.
	I just kind of felt like, well, I'm in that dreamlike state.
	But that was a time where I actually felt like I was hearing auditory hallucinations that were not my own voice.
	These were other voices talking.
	And what I found was that in the majority of cases, they sound just like your own voice that you have running through your head all the time.
	You know, there's no difference in timbre or pitch or anything like that.
	But the intent is very different.
	It's a very malicious intent.
	And what they normally do is tell you bad things about yourself and bad things about other people.
	And that's a common phenomenon with all humans.
	So they don't just hit schizophrenics.
	You know, they take, they try to take over schizophrenics, but they hit all of us.
	Every negative thought about yourself or anybody else comes from them.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	They're testing, they're testing us.
	I mean, I think we've all had occasions where all of a sudden we get this absurd thought in our head, like, why would I want to do something like that?
	Yeah.
	And you wonder where that came from.
	Well, they're, they're testing to see if they can get in.
	And if your mind is kind of stable or strong enough, they back off a little bit, but they will come back and test you frequently.
	Yeah, I've heard that over and over again.
	Even after we get rid of them, they come back a month or two later just to test the waters to see if they can hook the victim again.
	But they sound just like your own thoughts.
	You know, except the content, the intent, is very different from what you would want to do or what you would choose for yourself until they take over.
	Once they take over, you're gone.
	You know, past a certain point, you're not coming back.
	I mean, there were times where I felt like something else was actually inside my body, where my arms and legs were moving, but I wasn't moving them.
	Something else was actually moving my arms and legs around.
	It was almost like my personality and true psyche was being pushed to the side a little bit.
	I mean, it was a spiritual battle is what I would call it.
	Yeah.
	Carlos Castaneda said, they give us their mind.
	So it sounds like your thoughts, but where do thoughts come from?
	Thoughts are energetic.
	They're energy.
	These things are energy.
	There's no time, there's no space, there's no movement for them.
	They don't operate by physical rules.
	So trying to pour psychiatric drugs on them is like trying to pour Thorazine on a magnetic field and Thinking that magnetic field's going to dissipate because you pour some drug on it.
	It's not going anywhere.
	It doesn't disappear.
	All those drugs do is calm you down, and the vast majority of patients will tell you.
	The voices don't disappear when they take those drugs.
	They just don't care about them as much.
	They kind of dull you down.
	Yeah, a good analogy, I think, is the mind is kind of like a radio.
	It's both a receiver, a transmitter, a filter, and a tuner.
	And by using these drugs, it's almost like, OK, you've got some noise or static coming through on the radio speaker.
	You want to fix the radio.
	Doing the drugs, you're just poking holes in the speaker.
	You're stopping the noise, but you're not fixing the radio.
	And that's where other approaches need to come into play to how to help people with schizophrenia to gain themselves back and start living a normal, decent life.
	And there's new therapies emerging right now that do do that.
	They do do that.
	I've adopted one of them.
	It's called the Mace Energy Method.
	And it works great.
	It's being totally ignored by the mainstream.
	They want nothing to do with it.
	They don't make any money curing people.
	They only make money selling drugs.
	So the psychiatric mafia are drug pushers for big pharma.
	There's no money in the cure, there's only money in treating the symptoms.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And presumably, there aren't enough... I mean, how many paranoid schizophrenics are there as a percentage of the population?
	Oh, geez, I used to know that.
	It's... You know, I might be able to find that.
	It's in the millions.
	You know, it's in the millions.
	Okay.
	So there are millions of people, most of whom are being written off by the psychiatric system and being put on chemical koshers, even now, is that right?
	Yeah, that's what they insist is the only treatment for it.
	They insist there is no other treatment.
	say it's a chemical imbalance.
	The thing is, there is absolutely no proof that it's a chemical imbalance.
	They made that up to sell drugs.
	It was a drug company back in the 70s that made that up.
	Said, oh, yeah, we'll say it's a chemical imbalance.
	And then people think, well, we have the drugs that'll kind of set it straight.
	Oh, I heard that many times during my diagnosis.
	Oh, you've got a chemical imbalance.
	You've got a chemical imbalance.
	And I was thinking to myself, okay, I've got a chemical imbalance, but where were my chemicals before two or three years ago, before this all started?
	What was my chemical balance at that point in time?
	Well, the truth is, that's a lie.
	That was a lie made up by the pharmacology, the pharmacist, drug manufacturers.
	They made it up to sell drugs.
	And it started with Prozac.
	And they knew it was wrong at the time, but they went with it anyway.
	So now Big Pharma has control of the medical schools, they have control of Congress, they have control of the entire mental health system, Big Pharma and the psychiatric mafia, and that's what they're preaching.
	But it has been proven wrong.
	Over and over again, it's been proven wrong.
	And they continue to push it.
	Instead of saying, oh, they say stuff in their advertisements now.
	Oh, now it's believed that.
	The truth is, there's scores of neurotransmitters in the brain.
	Scores.
	They don't even have a single test to measure what the level of any of those Neurotransmitters are.
	So what happens is, what I saw at the state hospital that didn't make sense, is here's a psychiatrist, they bring in the patient for 15 minutes, they prescribe one of these toxic anti-psychotic drugs, tell them it's a chemical imbalance, and turn them loose.
	They wouldn't tell them anything about the toxic effects.
	They didn't have any test to measure what was out of balance or by how much.
	Before they prescribed the drugs.
	So it was like a dart board.
	They just throw a dart at the dart board and say, well, we'll start with this drug.
	Oh yeah.
	When I was in the hospital, they put me on all different types of drugs.
	They kept trying different things.
	You're like a human guinea pig because they don't know which drug is going to snap you out of it.
	And I mean, there are some drugs I think they put me on.
	I don't have memories for at least two or three days sometimes.
	Sometimes you're in a fog, all different types of symptoms, different colored pills I was taking.
	They bring you to a little paper cup.
	And you take this and suppose that they're trying to help you, but I forget how many different types of drugs or pills that they tried and I was not snapping out of my state or condition.
	So the drugs were not doing anything for me.
	It was just almost like, as Jerry said, you're a dartboard.
	They're just trying to throw one thing out and see what works.
	There's no real way to figure out what the proper chemistry in your brain should be to prescribe the proper drug to treat what's going on.
	They said the voices are telling them, you're no good.
	You're stupid.
	You're ugly.
	Nobody loves you.
	Your friends are just pretending.
	You know, you're a burden on everybody.
	Why don't you just go ahead and kill yourself?
	You know, so it's the same kind of stuff over and over from one end of the United States to the other, from one institution to another, to another, to another, to another.
	It's almost like they're all made from the same cookie cutter.
	They're all saying the same things.
	Now, psychiatry has never studied the voices because they believe they already know what they are.
	And they've done no research on them at all, just an infinite arrogance.
	They come out and they go, We hereby declare that the voices are hallucinations because they look like they are.
	They've done no research on them at all.
	They don't even allow each other to ask patients what they're saying.
	The only time I've seen them react to what the voices are saying is when the patient says, the voices are telling me to kill myself.
	All of a sudden, it's like they're stuck in the butt with a hot rod and they jump up and they lock him on suicide watch.
	And as a patient, you don't even want to say that.
	Believe me, they asked me so many times, are you suicidal?
	Are you suicidal?
	And I was telling them, no.
	Darn well I was, but I knew if I told them that, they were going to put me on more drugs, lock me up somewhere else, and it'd be even harder to get out of there.
	And that's exactly what they do.
	They lock you down and put you on suicide watch.
	In prison, they'd give you this rigid sleeping bag that was freezing cold.
	And you'd only have a pair of underwear on, and they'd keep you locked up there until you were no longer suicidal.
	And they do something similar in the private hospitals too.
	Lock you down, increase your drugs, put you on suicide watch, and don't let you off until you say you're not suicidal.
	But it's interesting that the psychiatrists ignore everything else the voices say.
	But if they if they find out that they're telling the patient to kill themselves, they act like a pig stuck in the butt with a friggin hot rod.
	They jump up, lock the guy down, increase the meds, put him on suicide watch and take it very seriously.
	And that's the only thing.
	The liabilities change.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	They don't want anybody killing themselves on their watch because then they get blamed for it.
	How come you didn't catch this?
	Well, yeah, that's exactly true.
	You say you're suicidal.
	You're in more trouble.
	Patients learn not to say that, and prisoners learn not to say that, and then the suicide rate goes up because they know what's going to happen.
	It's like if you're a prisoner being tortured for information, you're going to tell your torture anything they want to hear, even if it's true or not, just to have the torture stop.
	It's kind of the same idea.
	If you're going to say that you're not suicidal at a point, even though you may still be, just because you want what you're going through to stop.
	You want to be able to be released and try and get your mind back and get on with your life.
	And I was telling Anant that these things from one end of the United States to the other, from all the different institutions I've worked in, you know, they're saying the same thing.
	They're saying the same things in the state hospital in Georgia that they're saying in the prison here or in the mental health centers here.
	It's always the same narrative.
	It doesn't vary.
	It's almost like they're all made from the same cookie cutter.
	You know, they do have different degrees of intelligence and different degrees of slyness, but it's almost like they all carry on the same narrative.
	You know, you're stupid, you're ugly, you're no good, kill yourself, this guy's plotting against you.
	It's all aimed at generating negative emotional energy, which they somehow, and I have no idea how they do that, They drain it off.
	That's what they feed off of.
	They have no energy of their own.
	They're energetic parasites.
	I don't know if it's a food for them or if it's actually a drug for them.
	I'm not sure these entities are addicted to it.
	They're definitely trying to generate them, that's for sure.
	It's a food because when you start cutting it off and breaking into these patterns and short-circuiting these patterns, the patient starts getting better and the voices get weaker.
	You eliminate these patterns and schizophrenia is gone.
	Well, you get rid of these patterns.
	It's the voices that drive paranoid schizophrenia.
	That's what does it.
	It's not any chemical imbalance.
	It's not any genetic defect.
	It's these friggin' voices.
	And they're altering your reality is really what they're doing.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	They're dragging you into a totally different reality.
	And it's not a good one.
	And they want control.
	You're constantly after control.
	Every culture has a different word for them, doesn't it?
	I mean, the ancient Greeks called them the Eumenides, the Furies.
	And we talk about demons, about, you know, my demons.
	I always used to talk about my demons.
	Or Archons.
	Yeah.
	Muslim.
	Archons, the Djinn, I mean, there's so many different... The Djinn, well exactly, in Islamic culture they're called the Djinn.
	Right.
	So, I mean, would you call them demons?
	Is that the most accurate in our vocabulary?
	Well, they pretty much act like it, and we're realizing this was reading, you know, Heaven and Hell by the Christian mystic Immanuel Swedenborg is where this started coming Coming clear, at that time I was in contact with a clinical psychologist, Dr. Wilson Van Dusen, who was a Swedenborgian in California.
	He was working at a private mental hospital and he saw the same thing.
	The demons that Swedenborg described matched exactly what these schizophrenic voices were acting like.
	So both of us came to the conclusion that, hey wait, Swedenborg lived, I think, what was it, 300 years ago?
	And here he is writing about the same things we're seeing with these voices.
	It's the exact same thing, how they act.
	Yet other traits, and George chime in here, I found that they consistently get louder after sunset Yeah, about two to three is when I wake up frequently and the attacks will be most intense.
	They don't want you to sleep because if you get sleep, you kind of heal a little bit.
	They want you to be tired and drained as much as possible.
	So they try and keep your mind active.
	And, you know, we were talking about the relationship to what Swedenborg says, that there's also some very similar connections to Gnosticism, which is something that Carl Jung had kind of looked into as well, to what was going on.
	I just feel that there's, in modern day medicine and science, we've taken out the mysticism and the religious aspects of some of these entities and battles.
	We just call it, oh, it's mental illness.
	But from my own experiences, I really do feel there's something more profound going on.
	This is a spiritual battle.
	This is not a physical thing.
	No physical drug is going to touch these.
	These entities are energetic.
	They operate in a different universe and they try to drag their victim into that universe and take control of them.
	And when you see these psychotic killers and these shootings, these are people that these voices have taken over for the most part.
	Yeah.
	One thing, another pattern that's interesting is if you try to ignore them, which is what psychiatry tells patients, oh, just ignore them, just ignore them.
	You can't ignore them.
	They get louder when they're ignored.
	You know, I remember checking that out with patients.
	You know, I'd hear psychiatrists tell them, oh, just ignore them, just ignore them.
	So, I'd follow up with that patient a few days later and I'd say, well, how'd that work for you?
	They said, it doesn't work at all.
	They get louder when they're ignored.
	They demand attention.
	Yeah, because if you're ignoring them, it means that you might be heading on a path to starting to heal, and that's what they don't want.
	They don't want you to get better.
	They want to keep your mind in as negative places as possible.
	Yeah, they want to destroy you.
	Do they hate all religions equally, or is it just Christianity?
	Well, I would say they're against humanity.
	I wouldn't say they hate religions, because I think the religions kind of talk about these entities and demons.
	So, I guess I see it more just they're going after humanity for some reason.
	Yeah, I agree with that, but they hate positive religions.
	Now, they'd love Satanism, you know, they'd love that kind of stuff.
	They'd eat that up.
	But anything that is positive for humanity, Any positive spiritual path, they will oppose.
	They're constantly fostering self-destructive behavior.
	I don't know how many patients I had that were about to graduate from a vocational class.
	And right as they're about to graduate, the voices kick up and get them to do something to sabotage themselves.
	So they're constantly fostering self-destructive behavior on the part of the patient.
	Yeah.
	My experience has started my mid twenties.
	I just finished obtaining a bachelor's of science in engineering.
	And that's when all these experiences started happening.
	Yeah.
	Why?
	Was there a trigger?
	They don't want you to succeed at anything.
	They want you to be alone and miserable and helpless so that, you know, they don't, they foster isolation.
	They don't want anybody being around you that's trying to help you.
	Mothers, fathers, family are all enemies.
	So, what they'll tell the patients, go lock yourself in the bedroom, stay away from them.
	They're plotting against you.
	Yeah, James, you asked, you know, why then after like, About to achieve a vocation or a degree or something.
	And it could be that that's a point in life where you're kind of making a decision where you want to go, what you want to do, at least to start out as a career.
	And maybe that's a point where they figure they can get in to try and stop you from pursuing your dreams.
	Yeah.
	But why you?
	I mean, why did they attack you?
	I mean, they could have, well.
	Me personally or just other people out there?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Why you personally?
	Well, I can get into that.
	I guess I've always had kind of a redeemer or saver of the world type of personality as one of my archetypes within me.
	And they might have sensed that.
	I went into engineering because I felt like I could improve world conditions.
	That was part of an assumption that wasn't entirely correct.
	But perhaps there was some pureness or worthiness within me that they sensed and saw as a threat or a future threat.
	Because they don't normally dwell on all realm of matter and time.
	They're kind of beyond time.
	So I don't know if these entities were coming at me because something's going to happen in the future that they're scared or afraid of.
	And I get more into some of that, but I guess I was always very religious at a core.
	I mean, I was baptized Greek Orthodox.
	I attended a Methodist Sunday school and I was in a Roman Catholic youth group throughout high school.
	But I was very religious, not in a dogmatic sense, like, oh, the verbatim what the Bible says.
	I was very religious in the sense of belief, strong belief that there is something more in this material realm, that there is something beyond.
	I always had kind of a strong faith in God, so to speak.
	So I think that's when the kind of tests and tribulations started.
	And part of the madness is thinking that you're mad.
	Because if you don't think that you're mad, it's much easier to deal and address with these entities.
	And society and the psychiatric mafia, as Jerry calls it, they'd say, oh, they're mad.
	They're insane.
	But when you start to feel like that, oh, I must be mad.
	And then they discount anything you have to say because you're a madman, you're crazy, you know.
	So they don't listen to these people.
	I think what George said about them going after people that they know are going to help others is pretty common.
	They've gone after me.
	I've been crushed down into the bed.
	Very strange experiences when patients I was working with completely recovered.
	About three or four in the morning, I would be crushed down into the bed.
	And it was terrifying.
	So they go after people like that.
	They go after preachers.
	If they can bring down a preacher, that's great.
	That's a bonus for them.
	Jerry, mention about how you were one of the patients who said that you had something protecting you one time?
	Oh yeah, that was interesting.
	I was talking to a schizophrenic in the emergency room.
	I was doing psych crisis.
	And I asked her about her voices, trying to figure out, OK, how far gone is she?
	And she was coherent.
	And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, it wasn't part of the conversation at all, she said, you're going to be OK.
	You're never going to get hurt.
	Doing what you're doing.
	And I said, where'd that come from?
	And she said, I see this giant angel standing in back of you, you know, you're never going to get hurt.
	And I went, wow, that came out of nowhere.
	And I never was, you know, a lot of my compatriots were, you know, the closest I came was, you know, one day I was, I was trying to show an intern kind of how, how touchy some of these guys could be.
	And here's this Apache, a drunken Apache, who's psychotic, came into the ER from Northern Arizona.
	And I started needling him just a little bit to get a reaction.
	He picked up a friggin' sofa chair and he threw it across the room at me and it skimmed the top of my head and smashed against the wall.
	I could feel it just breeze through my hair.
	That's how close it came.
	Slight haircut you got there.
	He didn't continue the attack, thank God.
	Yeah, they do go after good people.
	And they gaslight.
	They're pathological liars and bullies.
	Yeah, they lie about everything.
	They don't care whether it's the truth or not.
	If they can tell you a lie that generates that negative emotional energy, they'll tell you lie after lie after lie after lie and make it appear like it's true.
	I had one patient where They told him, if you gouge out your eye, we'll go away and we'll leave you alone forever.
	So he gouges out his eye and they come back and they go, you stupid fool, you listen to us?
	You know, now look, you disfigured yourself for life.
	You're a stupid idiot.
	Look at you, you know, and they started needling them that way.
	So that's how cruel and vicious these things can be.
	Malicious.
	They're definitely malicious.
	Very malicious.
	Very nasty.
	You know, so, You know, they gaslight people.
	Do you have any gaslighting experiences?
	There's definitely, definitely trying to make me feel as self-worthless as possible.
	So yeah, I guess in that sense of them telling me that I had no value, that I was worthless, that nobody would like me.
	And then when some of my friends would kind of come around, I was like, wow, I still kind of have friends.
	And they definitely want their targets to isolate themselves.
	Because if you're isolated, They got your attention.
	You're not going to get positive encouragement from the outside.
	You're just going to be hearing their negative confrontations all the time.
	Yeah, that's consistent.
	So I had one guy where, you know, he was on heavy meds.
	He was hearing the voices and the voices were telling him that he had murdered somebody.
	And he didn't know whether he did or not, but they were trying to convince him that he did.
	So he was like in this Catch-22.
	If he went to the police and said, you know, did I murder somebody, they'd know he was whacked out and he could potentially get locked up.
	On the other hand, if he doesn't, if he couldn't clear that up, then the voices were telling him they were looking for him because he had murdered somebody.
	So here they were gaslighting him in this constant circle that he couldn't get out of.
	And if you don't.
	Right.
	Right.
	Catch 22.
	You know, so, you know, some of them are very, very sly.
	Some of them are very stupid.
	They have different degrees of intelligence, but they can alter their course for that goal of upsetting the patient and generating that negative emotional energy that they drain off and feed off of.
	What I can't tell for sure is if when a target is being attacked, a schizophrenic patient, if it's attacked from one entity alone, or if there's multiple entities that they're confronting that are taking their turn to go at the target.
	And I use the word target to refer to the patient.
	Yeah, well, it's both.
	You know, the ones who are lucky are hearing one or two voices.
	The ones where it gets really, really bad is where, like you were talking about, Anand, where a whole host of them, like hundreds of them, attack the patient all at once.
	And they're all saying all these awful things at once.
	That's as bad as it gets, like being in this giant crowd that is screaming at you, telling you all these awful things, and you're surrounded, and you can't get it to stop.
	That's a feeding frenzy.
	The feeding like a shark attack.
	And that's what they're like.
	They can smell negative emotion.
	So, you know, the psychiatric mafia is saying, yeah, this is brought on by a chemical imbalance of the brain.
	Again, they have absolutely no proof for that.
	What it's brought on by is serious emotional, physical or sexual trauma.
	You know, will trigger these things and amphetamine.
	Amphetamine will open you up to these things faster than greased lightning and you will go psychotic and you will be schizophrenic as any patient locked up in a mental hospital for life.
	You know, and amphetamine is crystal meth.
	It's pouring over our borders right now with Biden's open drug policy, you know, and people are going psychotic on that stuff by the tens of thousands.
	The prison was full of prisoners who had gone psychotic on amphetamine.
	So, it's a very bad drug.
	So, if you can do something to get rid of these traumas, which the MACE Energy System does, you know, there's a new therapy that we're working with, what they feed off of is removed.
	How does it work, the therapy?
	What it does, unlike all these other things that the establishment puts out that don't work, is it takes into account the human as a spiritual being, as an energy field.
	You have an energetic core.
	Your spirit is positive energy.
	And it's as positive as the day you were born.
	But all these traumas and things that happen to you over life, all these bad things, it's like throwing mud on the glasses.
	The positivity of the soul is buried in this crap.
	So, what MACE is, is an energetic therapy that goes in and allows the energetic being to guide the therapist to where the damage is that's hidden in the subconscious of the patient.
	Bring that up, process it, get rid of it, And then these things can't trigger it.
	They can't.
	And other people can't trigger it.
	So when you have a sore spot, you know, something you buried, you don't want to deal with.
	When somebody comes around who is like the person who caused that in the first place, it triggers it.
	So these entities can trigger it by themselves because since they're energetic, just like thoughts are, they can go into your mind.
	They can trigger.
	Find any of these memories and they can trigger them and rub them in your face until you start generating negative emotional energy.
	I remember they would go into my memories and they would use them against me, almost like I was becoming their star witness.
	It was a series of internal trials in a tribunal, I would say, almost.
	I was being judged and tested, condemned, tortured.
	One of the things specifically, I used to do a little fishing like we've all did as kids.
	You go down the stream with your fishing pole and you have to hook the worm in the hook to throw the bait out.
	And what these entities were doing, we're talking about a horrible being I was for killing these earthworms for when I went fishing and everything.
	You see, you're a terrible person.
	You're horrible.
	You don't deserve to live.
	You kill earthworms and everything.
	I mean, in a way, Nancy was right.
	Yeah, I did kill earthworms.
	But on the other hand, we got to eat for survival.
	We're putting this world in our body and its forms.
	We have to eat food, and that was the only way to get it, to catch a fish.
	So, I mean, Jerry's absolutely correct.
	They found that little memory inside my head of hooking worms to go fishing, and they used that against me quite a bit.
	Yeah, they are like fishermen.
	They'll go in there, they'll find something that you haven't thought about in years.
	I've seen them pull up stuff from 25, 50 years ago that a patient had done that they'd long forgotten about.
	It's like they bait the hook.
	They'll put that in there.
	They cast it out into your attention and they'll go, well, let's see if he bites on this.
	You know, is he going to get upset about this?
	And if that doesn't work, they'll bait it with something in there.
	And it's, it's almost like they're fishermen.
	They're fishing for what they can find buried in your psyche will upset you.
	You know, Going out on a religious aspect here, I'm going to say, I think what these entities are sort of trying to do is to kind of trap your soul or keep it blocked away from the true higher God or transcendent God.
	They don't want you to have a faith in a belief in anything above them or that there is God or not God or that sort of thing.
	I mean, I really think it's a battle for your soul is what you count on these entities is really what it is.
	Yeah, it's a spiritual battle.
	You know, it's got nothing to do with biochemistry.
	This is an energetic parasitic entity.
	That has been with the human race since inception, or at least since language, because they have to use language to upset you.
	Now they can make just go in and make you feel rotten without using language.
	You know, and that's happened to me a number of times where I'm sitting out there on the front porch and all of a sudden I just start feeling like depressed and, and down.
	And I'm like, where's that coming from?
	There's no reason.
	And then I'll say, you know, get the hell out of here.
	Boom, boom, boom.
	And then it goes away.
	So did that ever happen to you?
	Oh, absolutely.
	I mean, that was part of the reason why I was able to kind of pull myself out of it, is that they would do these attacks and I would confront them continuously.
	I would start kind of laughing at them a little bit too, like, oh, come on, I see what you're doing.
	Stop that.
	Give it up.
	And they'd back off.
	And the more you're able to confront them, they back off because they realize they're not going to win.
	Yeah, you can't just roll over and let them roll over you.
	You have to resist them.
	You have to fight back against them.
	Otherwise, they'll just take you over.
	That's what they want to do.
	They want to take you over.
	They want to have complete control.
	They want you to do whatever they want you to do to get in trouble.
	And if they can get you into prison, that's great because that's a totally negative environment.
	24 hours a day, you're always worried about getting hurt or getting stabbed or what's going on or people threatening you.
	You know, prisons are hog troughs for these things.
	And you can feel it.
	Soon as you walk into the door of a prison, you can feel it.
	You know, that's their territory.
	So they keep these people in there for years.
	They're abused by the population.
	They're abused by the guards.
	They come out of there much worse than they ever went in.
	They're given two weeks of medication.
	They're let out the door because they've done their time.
	They haven't received hardly any psychotherapy or any help of any other kind other than being locked up.
	And then they're released upon society to do whatever damage they can do.
	They're furious.
	They're angry.
	They're upset.
	They're more psychotic than when they came in.
	And they're released on society.
	Prisons don't even try to help these guys.
	Yeah, the only way as a target that you really have to act as your own defense counsel or your own advocate, and you have to argue against these entities and defend yourself almost as a defense attorney to keep them at bay.
	Jerry, James, do you want to kind of go into my story now of what I went through?
	Would this be a good time to branch off there?
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Jerry and I kind of met, I guess, a few months ago.
	He's never really done any counseling or treatment for me, but I reached out to him because I saw kind of what he was doing made sense a little bit, and we started talking and everything, and just really things kind of coincided.
	So, I came from a rather dysfunctional family growing up.
	There was Death, abandonment, drug abuse, narcissism, you name it.
	I was probably being abused with drugs starting about the age of seven.
	And I had to almost be my own adult at a very young age to deal with what was going on.
	I had an older brother that was rather narcissistic and physically and emotionally abusive.
	My father passed away in my arms.
	I was around cocaine, marijuana, hash, pills quite often.
	I was offered cocaine several occasions before I was even a teenager, but I never actually did the cocaine.
	I kind of saw it destroying people around me.
	I had been offered drug dealerships several times while in high school.
	So I was almost living this dual life where I could have access to any possible drug I wanted to, yet I was still keeping my grades up in school, trying to go on an academic path.
	And so needless to say, there was a lot of dysfunctionality.
	Codependency was a big thing that was going on in my family.
	And when I got out of college, what had happened is I'd never been able to deal with some of my repressed childhood emotions.
	Let me add to what you're saying there.
	Almost all the cases of when I worked in the prison and the psych department, these prisoners would come in having done horrible things.
	And if you look into their background, it was always horrible.
	It was stuff like Anan is talking about.
	It was horrible physical, sexual, mental abuse, drug abuse, trauma.
	You know, there's an underlying trauma.
	So this chemical imbalance stuff is crap.
	It's trauma that causes this stuff and it kind of splits the patient.
	You know, it breaks them.
	Okay.
	Definitely.
	I guess there's a lot of undealt with trauma that I was having to face.
	And after getting out of college, it was the first time I got a chance to kind of see who I was a little bit as a person.
	Because throughout my teen years, I was pretty much the man of the household.
	I had to keep the house maintained.
	I was dealing with a brother who would come home drugged out all the time and I'd have to bring him back to recover.
	He had ties with the mafia where he was dealing for them and He owed a lot of money back and forth on different things.
	So a lot of dysfunctionality going on here.
	Every family has a degree of dysfunctionality within them, just some more so than others.
	I'm sure there's a lot of people who had a lot worse upbringing than I did, by all means.
	But trauma is a good way to describe it, or undealt with trauma, perhaps.
	So, I graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering.
	I had actually taken some psychology courses as a minor, so I knew about comparative psychology, general psychology, abnormal psychology.
	I was well aware of what schizophrenia was, depression, bipolar disorders, the DSM, the Diagnosis Statistical Manual, I think is what those initials stand for.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And I want to let you know that all those diagnoses are made up They're voted in and they're voted out.
	There is no clinical test for any of them.
	A bunch of psychiatrists get together like in a tobacco bar and a guy comes in, I got a new diagnosis and they call it this and this is its symptoms and they add it.
	They have to have a diagnosis for the insurance companies.
	So this is one of the biggest scams on the planet.
	You know, all of these diagnoses are made up.
	They take segments of normal human behavior and trauma.
	They break it up into segments, give it a diagnosis, give it a number, and they then feed it to the insurance companies, and Big Pharma comes up with some kind of drug to treat it.
	What's going on is just... It's madness.
	Because there's a better way to deal with this issue.
	So I was dealing with a lot of codependency issues.
	I had a lot of anger against my mother and some of my family members for what had occurred to me in the upbringing.
	And, you know, when you come out of a dysfunctional family, quite often they will never get what was going on.
	They will never admit to themselves what was going on.
	They're dealing with their own dysfunctionalities and voids in their characters as well.
	So I started to read the Bible on my own just because I always wanted to.
	I kind of felt like I had a mission in life to do what I could to improve the human condition, kind of be a redeemer of our species or savior type archetype, so to speak.
	But what was happening is all these suppressed notions were starting to surface on their own.
	So I was starting to read the Bible on my own for the first time, without any middleman, because I wanted to see what it said to me.
	I was just reading a standard gospel Bible, a King James Version or a New American Standard Version.
	And what happens, I started to get very, very depressed.
	Telling me that I was worthless, that give up on your mission, that you'll never achieve what you want to achieve.
	Don't, don't, don't even bother.
	I was, I was starting to crash.
	I was, I was crashing and this probably occurred, oh, towards the tail end of 1989 and going into 99, 1990.
	And I crashed so hard psychologically.
	You can call it a psychotic break, a nervous breakdown.
	There's many different words for it.
	But it reached the point where I couldn't see colors anymore.
	I was seeing only in black and white.
	My mind was getting that depressed, I guess.
	Food lost all flavor.
	It had no taste.
	It was almost like I couldn't get my words out, like something else was trying to take me over a little bit.
	It was a whole bunch of things going on at once.
	So I was basically on mental overload trying to deal with everything.
	It was suppressed memories, childhood trauma, codependency.
	I was trying to break the codependent bonds I had with my mother and I was getting mixed message and signals from her on certain things.
	So I crashed so hard I ended up...
	In a psychiatric hospital.
	Ended there.
	I was there for about four weeks.
	What was it like when you first got in there, George?
	It was a mixed bag.
	I mean, some aspects of it were horrible and terrifying, like being in a prison.
	Other aspects of it, you could tell some people that were generally trying to help their patients recover to improve upon it.
	And of course, you're being put in an environment where there's so many other people who have their own emotional and psychological problems and you're trying to gain a sense of reality, what's right and what's wrong.
	And you're grounding back and you're all around these people who don't have their own grounding.
	So it's almost like you're putting your foot down to try and rebuild yourself and you're putting your foot down in quicksand because there's so many others around you are kind of in the same state.
	But I remember they would have like a talk to like a psychiatrist and there were nurses there and I didn't have a particular favorable psychiatrist, I would say.
	I remember some of the other patients were complaining.
	I think his thesis or his approach seemed to be shock therapy.
	And by shock, in this case, I mean anger, like anger management, where they were trying to trigger anger within you to get some sort of reaction.
	I almost felt like this particular psychiatrist's approach was to try and generate anger in their patients to get them to react or confront things.
	But I needless to say, that was not helpful at all.
	Because I mean, I'm feeling worthless.
	I'm feeling there's absolutely no hope of a future.
	I mean, I remember there was times in the hospital, my mind was so overwhelmed or I felt like something was trying to take it over.
	Well, I would actually walk into walls.
	Because I couldn't find the thoughts to turn my body or move my body in a different direction.
	I remember laughing myself saying, this must look so ridiculous.
	I'm walking in the wall.
	When I walk into the wall, I would keep walking against it.
	Like I couldn't find, I keep walking, but I couldn't find the thoughts to turn myself in a different direction.
	So they were trying all different types of drugs on me as well, as I mentioned earlier in the conversation, and nothing was working.
	There were times where I don't remember what went on at all.
	There was times where I heard multiple voices going on and there was group therapy going on.
	But I reached a point after about four weeks where none of the drugs were working.
	I was so depressed.
	The Gulf War was starting at this point in time and I was almost like I felt like I was responsible for the Gulf War starting and it's my fault because I couldn't stop it.
	This is kind of what the entities put in your head.
	They're trying to make you feel worthless.
	They're playing with your memories and what's going on in the present as well.
	It's almost like I had the weight of the world on my shoulders.
	During the final week, if I didn't improve, I was probably going to be sent to the state hospital, state psychiatry hospital.
	I was actually in a place called Princeton House at this point in time.
	I still had health insurance because I was using cash advances on my credit cards to pay for my health insurance at the time.
	How much time did psychiatry actually spend with you before they made a diagnosis and started dumping medicines on you?
	Oh, it wasn't much at all.
	I mean, sometimes I think the first time I've been 20 minutes, sometimes it might have been a 30 minute session.
	And I can't remember if it occurred, but it occurred twice a week.
	I mean, if anything, as far as my recovery goes, I would say the nurses were actually more helpful than the psychiatrist there.
	I mean, because these nurses seem to have a little, a little bit of compassion.
	And that's kind of what I needed, just kind of some compassion and understanding.
	I mean, I was in one of the most darkest depths of my reality I could have possibly been with no hope of a future.
	So I reached a point, none of the drugs were working, and I must have tried at least 20, 30 different pills at least.
	And I do remember them telling me that these drugs are for, at the time, this would have been 1990, the view, at least the place I was at, was that these drugs for treating psychotic symptoms were temporary.
	They were to be used for the short-term only.
	They did make me well aware of the long-term consequences of some of these drugs.
	I mean, I didn't want to be on any drugs personally, because I felt like I had to face this on my own, to hit it head on.
	So, none of the drugs were working.
	How did they make you feel?
	How did those drugs make you feel?
	Each one would make you feel a little bit different.
	I mean, sometimes you're just in a fog, super dry mouth.
	Other times, time was shifting a little bit back and forth.
	I'd move my eyes and it'd take a while for the images that I was seeing to catch up, when I would turn my head back and forth.
	Sometimes I don't have memories of a few days there because of the drugs that I was on.
	All different symptoms.
	I remember the drugs were different looking.
	Sometimes it was taking two, they'd increase the dose of one, they'd change it over to another, they'd do a combination of this and that.
	Did you feel any of those drugs helped you at all?
	Absolutely not.
	Absolutely not.
	The way they originated back when is these drugs were discovered by accident in a dye lab in Europe and they found out that they could give them to massive Psychiatric populations and bring them under control It wasn't to help them.
	It was to bring them under control because before they came around Attendants had to actually fight with patients and put them into straitjackets.
	That's the only way to control them.
	So, these drugs are a means of control in psychiatric hospitals.
	They don't help anything except to calm the guy down and turn him into a zombie.
	Externally, they're calming them, but internally, they're not.
	I mean, it's almost like somebody has a broken leg, so you solve the problem by cutting off their leg.
	There, the broken leg is gone.
	You haven't cured them.
	You just made them worse.
	So they prescribed me to go through some ECT treatments and that stands for electroconvulsive therapy.
	And that's where they actually shock the brain a little bit.
	So this was fall of 1990.
	Uh, thank goodness I wasn't getting in the 1950s and the 1960s where they would actually shock with a high amount of voltage and your whole body would convulse back and forth to the point of breaking bones.
	What they did is they actually, they lay on a table.
	It's like going into surgery.
	Put a bunch of electrodes and probes on your head.
	They give you a muscle relaxant.
	And at the same time, they have to put you on kind of a breathing apparatus because the muscle relaxants are so strong, you can't move your lungs on your own anymore.
	So they have to have a machine that breathes for you.
	And then what they do is they give like the brain kind of a jolt.
	Now it was low voltage jolt.
	You don't remember the actual jolt, at least I didn't, because I was put under with the anesthesia.
	It's like going into surgery, in a sense.
	You count backwards from five when they start turning on the anesthesia.
	You go dark, you go black, and then you wake up later.
	But I remember one thing.
	After the very first treatment of the ECT, I felt better.
	I felt a little more like myself.
	I was still at rock bottom, but I felt like, okay, I can start climbing, climbing out again where I was at.
	So I knew the ECT had helped now.
	And I was telling him, Hey, Hey, I feel a lot better.
	I can, I can rebuild myself now.
	But they said, no, no, no, you need five more treatments at least.
	So I think two or three of the treatments I had were inpatient.
	Two or three were outpatient, but I remember I had a total of six ECT treatments where they were kind of shocked the brain a little bit while you're under anesthesia and It definitely affects short-term memory like the short-term memory was off a little bit afterwards for a few days or a few weeks I couldn't quite remember things that had happened.
	They warned me about that that that would probably occur but at least now I was able to be released from the psychiatric hospital because at least I was kind of functioning on my own again.
	But this was, this was a, this is electrical energy.
	This wasn't the drugs that did it, but it's somehow I would, I would go by describing it is if you remember the old vinyl records, when you got a needle stuck in the groove of a vinyl record, it just keep playing the same groove over and over and over again.
	What the ECT did is it lifted that needle out of the groove and put it in the next groove so the record could continue playing.
	And here we're talking about the energetic universe again.
	This had nothing to do with chemicals or drugs.
	We're talking about energy.
	So I was released from the hospital.
	I was seeing a counselor, I guess a psychologist and a psychiatrist.
	One was doing the counseling and the other one was actually prescribing the drugs.
	They put me on Klonopin, I would say probably rather low dosages.
	They told me it's more of a mood stabilizer.
	And what Jerry explained, that's not one of the more extreme drugs.
	Now, I was diagnosed as having affective schizophrenic disorder at the time.
	When I got out of the hospital, that's what they said that I had.
	I remember asking my counselor, I said, do I really have affective schizophrenic disorder?
	And what my counselor said, well, I have to put something down for the insurance code.
	So she said, no, but that's what I'm putting down for the insurance code.
	I don't know that she was saying that to be nice to me.
	She was being honest.
	So I continued with the counselor.
	I was talking more about the codependency issues I had with my mom.
	That's what I was dealing with.
	There was so much more going on in my mind than that.
	Dealing with these thoughts.
	So after I got out of the hospital, Sometimes I was staying at the house that I grew up in just because I was at poverty level then.
	My income that year was below poverty level.
	I had no income.
	I did have some credit cards, so I was able to pay for my food, my medicines, my health insurance by doing cash advances on my credit cards.
	That was the only way I could pay for things.
	And I started to go through a series I would call them trials or tribunals or torments, tortures, attacks.
	I can't quite describe them, but the very first one, something was offering me a path to extreme wealth, power and fame.
	If I gave up my quest, if I gave up what I thought was my life mission, it was almost like an offer to mammon, uh, power, wealth, lots of money, fame, fortune.
	But I basically had to give up.
	What I thought my life mission was or what my goal in life, what I wanted to achieve.
	I've heard Bob Dylan did that same thing, was given that same offer and took it.
	Yes.
	I think it was him.
	It's like I was selling my soul to the devil possibly.
	And here it is, I'm going through these offers from something and it's almost like I had to go in a state of a split mind to deal with all this.
	Part of me was the scientist observer, observing what was going on here because I take in psychology.
	So I kind of knew about some of this stuff.
	So part of me was dealing with it, being the participant.
	The other was kind of stepping back and to be the observer to kind of observe what was going on here.
	But it was definitely a state of the split mind.
	I don't know if it's like the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other that I was going back and forth and dealing with.
	But I remember thinking, Okay, here I have an affective schizophrenic disorder is what I was diagnosed as.
	Here it is that part of my subconscious is kind of waking up saying that I'm like a redeemer savior type of figure for humanity.
	I'm going through these offers of allegedly what Jesus Christ had gone through as well.
	This 40 days in the desert, you know, the temptation by the devil, the God, the material world for wealth, fame and fortune.
	So you can have all this.
	Here I am going to the same things.
	I'm saying to myself, man, I must definitely be mad.
	This is nuts.
	Nobody's going to believe me if I told anybody about this stuff.
	So that that lasts for a few months, and this would probably be approaching, oh, I'd say early winter of 1991, and then there'd be other battles that were occurring, other internal confrontations by these voices or thoughts.
	I call them very strong thoughts.
	I know Jerry refers to them as being hallucinations, auditory hallucinations.
	That's what psychiatry calls them.
	But there's a whole bunch of different stages.
	Another stage was starting to make me feel extreme guilt and shame, almost to the verge of ending my existence.
	It was pointing out all the crimes in life I'd ever committed, how minor they were, and this is where it was telling me how I killed an earthworm, that I didn't have the right to live anymore, that I was a worthless being, that I should destroy myself.
	It listed every morsel of meat that I ever ate, every fly, ant, or worm that I ever killed.
	Pointing out every flaw in my character.
	And it was trying to convince me to kill myself, to commit suicide.
	And it would actually tell me how to do it.
	I mean, it would give me these elaborate creative plots of how I should kill myself.
	There's a couple that it would... One I kept focusing on that I should climb up a high-tension power tower with the high-voltage lines that run across.
	Climb up the tower and jump onto the electrical voltage lines.
	Just let your body get zapped and hang up there.
	It definitely was going for dramatic effect with that one, but that's something it was definitely focused on quite a bit.
	It would even resort to the typical one of carbon monoxide poisoning, hooking up a pipe to your car exhaust and ending your life in the garage.
	And I got close to doing it.
	I actually had the pipes out in my garage.
	I was, I remember I was kind of wrapping duct tape up to create the pipe to connect to my car exhaust.
	Part of me was fighting this stuff though too.
	So I would defend against these voices in my head.
	For example, I would say, OK, yeah, I've eaten the meat of other animals, of other living beings.
	That makes me a horrible person.
	But wait a second.
	God created me with teeth, tongue, and mouth.
	I said, did I not have a right to use them?
	I asked, why is meat made to taste flavorful and provides the most amount of proteinic energy per volume?
	And this is where my argument got very strong.
	I said, wait a second.
	Why does God encourage other animals to kill and eat other animals for sustenance?
	This is not something that I did.
	This is God's design.
	Take your arguments to God, not to me on this.
	And this arconic thought kept on for quite a while, but it still continues to a milder degree.
	But as I defended against these voices and these attacks, they would back off.
	And then a new one would start from an entirely different angle.
	So again, I don't know if it was the same entity, Or if it was a whole bunch of different ones.
	So the next attack, and this was going into probably late winter of 1991, it kept telling me how worthless I and humanity are.
	That we didn't deserve to exist.
	It kept saying that we're insignificant lumps of flesh destined to rotting, being eaten by bacteria and worms.
	And I countered that argument.
	I kept saying, We were created this way by the divine hand.
	We didn't decide what our bodies would be.
	We didn't decide our composition of flesh, blood, and bones.
	It was granted or forced upon us.
	I said in defense of this prosecuting attack, how can you condemn our form when we had no say or control over its creation?
	I said, take your arguments to God, for that is where you'll find the answers, not with me.
	Seeing that my defense was strong, this attacking thought, it subsided very early.
	It withdrew its stance.
	I think it felt like my argument was very strong.
	It had no case in that attack.
	So you can't blame humanity for their shape and form when we're not the ones who made the form of our bodies.
	I was taking a religious approach when dealing with these thoughts and these spiritual attacks.
	And then the next stage or attack, I'll call it, I don't know if these were initiations, what I was going through, torments or tortures.
	But the next attack, it kept trying to convince how I and humanity did not deserve to exist.
	It was almost like it was entering my mind, these thoughts of these entities.
	It was judging all of humanity based on my experiences.
	It was using my memories to try and prove humanity's guilt.
	I was becoming its star witness during these tribunals and internal trials.
	It was seeing the history of humanity and our species' derelict and dysfunctional behavior through my eyes.
	It would replace something over and over from my memory and then say, see, humanity is an abomination.
	It will never evolve.
	You're not worthy to exist.
	It was almost like an inquisitor.
	And it was stating that humanity is a worthless, ignorant creation.
	It stated our species didn't deserve to continue.
	Now, I defended those charges.
	And here's what I kept saying to it.
	I said, yes, you are correct.
	There are many humans that are evil, wicked, ignorant, and full of hatred.
	But I also said, there are others that are good, compassionate, kind, and full of love.
	I put forth my defense that you don't condemn an entire species, religion, or culture as being entirely imperfect based on the actions of a few.
	So as I was a tent, I would defend myself against these attacks, but I almost felt like it was attacking not just my own self, my own soul, but all of humanity.
	I felt like I was acting as an advocate or defense attorney for all of humanity on these attacks.
	And then the next stage or attack, the next prosecutor's arguments, it kept telling me, why even bother trying to guide humanity with the knowledge being given to you?
	It said, they will never listen.
	They won't change.
	They will only laugh and mock you.
	You'll be a failure from the start.
	Now, I agree with this particular prosecuting attack on that point, because they may be correct.
	But I said, still, I must try.
	Then the prosecuting thought said to me, why do you choose to be a fool?
	And I said, being the fool is my choice.
	And the thought said, yeah, but why?
	Why do you want to be the fool?
	And I said very blatantly, for the love of humanity, This is one of the most powerful thoughts during my state of a split mind that I had to deal with.
	I mean, it spoke much truth in the fact that people don't like to be let out of the cave, Plato's cave, so to speak.
	People don't like to wake up and to become aware that there's a much greater worldview than the one that they think is reality.
	For somebody to wake up, it means they have to encounter a newer sense of their self.
	You have to let their old self die away.
	And that can be very scary and disorienting for people that are not ready.
	And it calls upon inner courage.
	And then the next tribunal, this is the one that was telling me that if I ever told anybody about these experiences, that what these internal thoughts were saying, that my family, the doctors, the clergy, and society would think I was a mad lunatic.
	And no one would ever believe or listen to me.
	They kept saying in various threatening ways not to tell my story, because no one would ever believe me.
	I'd be locked up, I'd be sedated, sent to a psychiatric hospital for the rest of my life, and I'd be permanently confined there until I died.
	And that's common.
	And, you know, who was ever going to believe these accounts, these spiritual battles that I was going through?
	As a mechanical engineer with a logical, rational mind, I was having a hard enough time accepting them myself.
	So it took me almost 15 years before I ever told anybody about these experiences.
	And that was in 2004.
	I actually told my future wife about some of the stuff that I went through.
	And she's Catholic.
	And the ironic thing is she believed more about my experiences than I did.
	The final trial or tribunal before I had this vision, I think, is the most intense.
	And this one I will remember forever.
	It greatly affected me.
	It kept telling me that God does not exist.
	It kept saying that my life mission was pointless.
	There's no such thing as God.
	It was telling me that God is dead.
	He's just a delusional fantasy.
	So give up.
	This prosecuting attack was trying to remove and destroy all remnants of hope within me of a belief in a God or a higher consciousness.
	So it was at this point in time, this was approaching fall of 1991, I was exhausted from all these confrontations, condemnations, the madness going on in my head.
	I started to pray to the most highest essence of God that I could, that high divine consciousness, the divine mind.
	I was praying to give me a sign.
	Give me a sign that this is not all madness and insanity going on in my head.
	I want proof that you are there.
	At this point, there was nothing left in my psyche.
	I was exhausted from defending against all those confrontations, temptations, and condemnations.
	There was nothing left who I was.
	My personality was dying.
	I was dying.
	I was unemployed.
	I was in financial debt, fighting depression.
	I was dealing with the psychological distress of being diagnosed as having affective schizophrenic disorder.
	I was feeling trapped, isolated, overwhelmed, without any sense of a future.
	And again, my income that year was below poverty level.
	I couldn't go on any farther.
	I needed a sign from divinity that this was not all delusional mental illness going on in my head.
	I wanted strong evidence that there was something more legitimate occurring than just pure insanity.
	I prayed heavily for a sign.
	For that divine parent to show me some proof.
	It didn't matter what it was.
	I didn't say I want a sign of like a new car showing up for my drive or anything.
	I left it up to God to decide what the sign was going to be.
	You know, if a priest had knocked on my door, I would have accepted that as a sign.
	If a Bible arrived by mistake in the mail at my front door, I would have accepted that as a sign.
	But after some of the most intense praying I ever did, something very profound occurred.
	After about two weeks, In the autumn fall of 1991, I had a vision, and it still affects and resonates with me to this day.
	It's something I will never forget.
	So, James, I can show you a PowerPoint presentation if this is a video interview we're doing here, or is this just audio only?
	I think it is video.
	It's when my internet works, you can see a picture of me moving and sometimes I'm frozen, but you can try.
	Do you know how to do it?
	I have a PowerPoint presentation and Jerry hasn't seen this either, but is there a way I can do share screen?
	Oh, probably.
	I don't know how.
	Okay, I'll describe it, but we can figure out how to do share screen actually.
	Well, you have a picture, right George?
	I do, I do.
	Well, let me describe what occurred.
	So I woke up about two to three o'clock in the morning.
	And again, as Jerry mentioned, that's the time where some of these voices and thoughts get very strong.
	I had the feeling there was a presence in my room.
	And it felt evil.
	It felt like something very powerful.
	And I woke up and I looked around my room.
	And this is the room in my childhood that I grew up in.
	At the time I was staying there.
	I didn't see anything.
	So I look up at the ceiling and I can see the square light fixture was there.
	And then all of a sudden I see like this kind of fog or smoke like essence starting to enter the room.
	But it wasn't coming in from the ceiling itself.
	It seemed to be entering from a plane below the ceiling.
	Might have six inches below or a foot below the ceiling.
	And my first instinct was, oh my gosh, there's an electrical fire starting in the overhead ceiling fixture.
	But the problem was, this wasn't moving like smoke.
	And I wasn't seeing any browning or blackness occurring, like something was burning.
	So I just kind of laid there.
	And more and more, this fog starts coming into the room.
	And I'm thinking to myself, oh, great.
	Now I'm starting to have a visual hallucination.
	Here he is a year ago.
	I'm diagnosed with affective schizophrenic disorder.
	And now I'm having a freaking visual hallucination.
	But the other part of me was saying, OK, let's see where this goes.
	I got kind of a scientific mind.
	I want to observe and see what happens here.
	So this fog continues coming into the room.
	It was almost moving like the way white ink would move through a liquid.
	I don't know if it had sentience itself or not.
	But more and more of this fog coming into the room.
	And I'm just lying in my bed looking at it.
	It's forming kind of like a cloud.
	And then I start to see this dark opening or portal in the center of the cloud.
	And the portal's getting larger and larger and larger.
	It became like vertically oblong.
	And I'm looking at this dark portal that's in the midst of this cloud, and I realize that the fog is entering from the very edges of the portal and pouring into the room.
	I'm looking at this dark portal.
	I can't see anything.
	It's almost like there's a hole in the reality of space and time occurring below my ceiling.
	And all of a sudden, whoosh, I see these two serpentine-like tails move from bottom to top within the portal.
	The bottom of them were like a grayish color, the underbelly, and the sides were very dark, glossy black scales.
	I distinctly remember seeing that.
	And there was two of these tails or legs moving up.
	And I remember kind of thinking, that's kind of odd, because if it was a serpentine or a snake, I would expect to see one.
	But it was almost like there was two spines, two sets of vertebrae with this thing that was moving in there.
	I'm like, whoa, OK, if I'm not hallucinating, I hope whatever it is stays on that other side, in that portal, in that gateway.
	It doesn't come into my room.
	Well, needless to say, I spoke too soon on that one.
	So this cloud is filling up the room, and all of a sudden I start to see serpentine movements within the cloud.
	And I'm thinking, oh great, this thing's coming into my room.
	So the cloud's getting thicker and thicker, and it reached a point where I couldn't really see anything.
	I couldn't see the serpentine movements anymore.
	I couldn't see that the portal was almost like blurred out, kind of like when you look at a full moon behind that's obscured by the clouds.
	You know the full moon is there, but you can't really see it.
	So I'm just kind of lying back watching what's going on here.
	All of a sudden, this thing comes out of the cloud and moves across my field of vision from left to right.
	It had like a snake or serpentine body.
	But it had, like, a dog or lion-like face to it.
	It had a mammalian head.
	And I'm thinking, great.
	My mind's deciding to have a visual hallucination.
	This is what it makes up.
	A snake with, like, a dog, lion-like face on it.
	I expected to see a snake-like head coming out of that cloud because it was serpentine-like.
	It was a snake to me.
	I didn't expect to see something with, like, a dog or lion-like face on it with a serpentine body.
	And I'm thinking, great, what next is going to come out of the cloud?
	A duck on a rabbit's body?
	Because I figured my mom was playing tricks on me.
	So this creature or entity goes across my field of vision, above my head from left to right, and it turns and it faces me.
	And I could see that the face looked like a mangy lion or like a mangy cat.
	It was so clear that I could see whiskers on its face.
	I could see almost broken stubble.
	It looked kind of banged up, like a cat that's been in many cat fights.
	I think I remember seeing some scratches on it.
	Its left eye might have looked like it was scratched or even scratched out.
	It could have even been blind in its left eye, like a cat that's been in a bad cat fight.
	So I was scared at this point, but I couldn't say I was terrified.
	I was kind of curious, thinking, OK, this is a hallucination.
	Let's see where this goes.
	So the lion-like face is coming at me, lowering itself from the ceiling level.
	All of a sudden, its face changes into a hobgoblin, most horrible possible face one could imagine.
	It was very wrinkled, gray, and prune-like.
	And it was opening its mouth like a howling, screaming expression, almost like it was coming to devour me.
	And when that face changed from the lion-like face to the horrible-looking hobgoblin demonish, it was almost like an old hag, a wooden hag, old hag of decay.
	It was gruesome to look at.
	And that split second, every cell in my body just felt such a state of horror.
	I thought this was the end of my existence.
	I really felt this thing was coming to destroy me.
	But instead of staying in fear, I don't know if I had a higher thought that said to do something different, or if it was my own thoughts that decided to do this.
	I knew this thing was much more powerful than I. This was from beyond our material realm of time and matter.
	So what I did, Instead of staying in a state of fear, and if I was about to die, I didn't want to go out of this world feeling like this, I lowered my ego.
	I didn't fight it.
	I just projected love onto it.
	That was the only thing I had left in me.
	So I just projected pure love onto this entity as it's coming at me.
	All of a sudden, it vignettes or pulverizes or disappears.
	I remember thinking, OK, I'm still alive.
	I'm still here.
	What was that?
	So I'm lying in my bed, and I look up.
	Next thing I know, there's something different hovering above my head.
	You have an image of that thing somewhere, right?
	I do, I do.
	Actually, is there a way to do share screen?
	I can show you what this thing looks like.
	I actually was writing a book on religious experiences, and I started to discover something called Gnosticism.
	Which I didn't know about Gnosticism until about three years ago.
	And I found this image of exactly what I saw among some of the Gnostic talismans.
	Wow.
	Is there a way to do a share screen?
	Or if not, I can describe it.
	Can you print it out?
	It would take me some time to do it.
	I have it as a digital file.
	I'll do that for next time.
	Yeah.
	But he's got an image of it that's 4,000 years old.
	What this looks like, it's actually the Egyptian god called Chnubis.
	And if your listening audience does a Google or Bing or Internet search and just types in Chnubis, it's spelled C-H-N-O-U-B-I-S.
	Again, that's C-H-N-O-U-B-I-S.
	And it matches exactly what he saw.
	That's exactly what I saw.
	Now this Egyptian god of Chnubis, it's also known as the Gnostic Demiurge or Abraxas.
	It's kind of a creature entity that has a lion-like, dog-like, mammalian-like face and a serpentine body.
	And again, I felt like there were, it wasn't like a single tail that I saw.
	It was like two tails coming out of this head.
	So I attended a Methodist youth group, or I attended a Methodist Sunday school and a Roman Catholic youth group.
	They don't teach you about this creature called the Demiurge or Abraxas in those So I mentioned how the snake-like entity had pulverized or disappeared, and now there's this white porcelain mask-like entity floating over my head.
	It was sheer beauty, and there was some fluttering going on, almost like it had golden-like whisper wings.
	So there's this white porcelain face.
	It looked like it was a non-corporeal being.
	And there's stuff going on in the background.
	I guess a way to describe it is almost like when you look at a heat mirage or heat rising off of hot pavement or hot asphalt.
	It's kind of like it blurs a little bit.
	It's fluttery.
	This was going on behind the white masks, and those flurs or flutters seemed to occur where these golden wisps or strands were coming out of it.
	It's almost like it was coming in and out of reality as it was flapping or fluttering.
	So there's a lot going on in the background of this white porcelain masked entity, but I would just focus on the white porcelain face itself.
	And the face, it was sheer beauty.
	It was indescribable beauty.
	And it was androgynous looking.
	I couldn't specifically tell if it was male or female.
	I felt it was of a feminine nature though.
	And I remember part of me saying, I'm not worthy to look at this face.
	Like I want to turn my head and look away.
	And there's a few times during this experience where I actually shut my eyes and shook my head back and forth to try and snap out of it if I was having a hallucination.
	But it didn't stop.
	And when I would open my eyes again, it wasn't like it left off where I shut my eyes.
	It had continued.
	Like as this cloud was coming into the room, I'd shut my eyes and I'd open it, and there'd be more of the cloud after I opened my eyes back up.
	So I tried to snap myself out of what was occurring, but that didn't work.
	So there's this beautiful white porcelain face mask entity, and it wasn't aware of my presence.
	I was aware of it, but it wasn't aware of me.
	And it's almost like it was looking down, either that it wasn't aware that it was free, or it was looking down in shame.
	I couldn't really describe it, but it wasn't aware of my presence, that much I know at first.
	Then all of a sudden, it kind of opens its eyes and it looks at me.
	And then I knew, now it was aware that I was there.
	So we stared at each other for maybe 15 to 30 seconds, but it felt like an eternity.
	And again, this face was sheer beauty.
	I mean, it was a type of beauty that, as a human being, I didn't think I was worthy to look at it.
	It seemed to be of another realm.
	So I didn't know where this was going to go.
	That other entity entered the room with a lion-like face, turning into something very horrible and frightening and terrifying.
	I was expecting this face to do the same thing.
	The face was pure beauty.
	I was thinking, OK, that was probably going to turn into something really ugly and scare the crap out of me.
	Instead, All of a sudden, it smiles at me.
	It was the most beautiful smile I ever saw in my life.
	And I could actually see dimples forming in its cheeks as it smiles at me.
	And upon it smiling at me, I felt this sheer wave of love, joy, ecstatic bliss, erotica, come over me.
	And I say erotic not in the physical sense, but erotica in the sensual sense of merging and combining with another being.
	And as this beautiful face is smiling at me, I'm starting to have an out-of-body experience.
	I'm rising out of my body.
	I'm starting to merge with this beautiful white porcelain masked entity that was looking at me.
	I saw that beautiful smile on the face and the smile, it was almost like a, it was a flirtatious smile.
	It was almost like a come hither and join me type of look on his face.
	So I'm rising out of my body, having an out-of-body experience.
	I'm starting to merge with this being.
	And this being is starting to rise up, going into the portal from which that other entity came out of.
	And the fog had dissipated at this point.
	There was very little left of it.
	It was just kind of that oblong portal.
	So I'm starting to rise out of my body.
	I'm merging with this being at the same time, the white porcelain masked entity.
	I was in a state of sheer bliss, ecstatic erotica.
	It was ecstatic joy.
	And just as I merged 100% with this being, it seemed to simultaneously occur just as I was entering the portal, just as I was crossing over the threshold from this reality into another reality, I fell back asleep.
	Everything kind of went dark or gray as I went into the portal and merged with this other entity.
	So I woke up the next morning in a state of religious shock.
	I probably woke up about 6 or 7 a.m.
	in the morning, about four or five hours later, looking at my ceiling to see there's a hole in it.
	I didn't see any hole in the ceiling.
	I don't know how to... I'm presenting my observations of what had occurred, but there's so many different ways of describing the actual experience.
	I don't know if the serpentine lion mask entity and then the beautiful one afterwards were one and the same, if they were two sides of the same coin.
	I don't know if the first entity was a demon and the second one was an angel.
	I don't know if that first entity was an Archon, possibly the head Archon himself, Abraxas or Demiurge.
	I don't know if the white porcelain mask face entity was an Aeon.
	There's all different ways of interpreting these experiences.
	And what happened to the voices after that experience?
	When I woke up the next day, I knew that what I was going through was not pure madness.
	There was something legitimate.
	Because here it is, something's telling me that God doesn't exist.
	And then I had this kind of divine experience, one might say.
	That white person on my face might have been an emanation of God herself.
	But the voices started to subside.
	It's almost like I knew that I had won.
	I think what happened is the voices subsided because they realized they didn't have a chance against me.
	Because my faith became even stronger after that vision.
	Because here it was, someone was trying to convince me that God does not exist.
	And then I had this vision or experience.
	The devil doesn't show up at your door unless he's trying to hide you from seeing God.
	So about 30 years later, the past three years, I was working on a book.
	And I started to do some research.
	And I was being led somewhere.
	And I almost feel like this white porcelain entity, I've given her a nickname.
	I call her Zoa, Z-O-A for short.
	I do still feel like she's around sometimes.
	She might be Sophia herself or Barbaralow for those that understand Gnosticism.
	And this entity kind of, that's the good one, I will say, helped me write this book.
	She was guiding me where to go, what to write.
	She almost became my muse, in a sense.
	Now, the thing that I cannot, the logic defies, is here I have this vision of something that was around 4,000 or 5,000 years ago.
	And I didn't know what it was until the last three or four years.
	Because there was no internet back in 1990, 1991.
	I wasn't reading any books on the occult.
	I was only reading the gospel-based Bible at the time.
	So it's taken me several, several years to kind of come to terms with what I encountered.
	But I had won those battles and I wasn't subjected to the extreme destructive drugs that they give schizophrenic patients.
	I was just on Klonopin at the time.
	I stayed away from all alcohol and all recreational drugs.
	During this time period from 1989 and onwards, because I didn't want to be on a foreign substance in my body.
	I wanted to fight this stuff head on.
	I was, I was facing internal battles.
	I knew I wasn't in the right state of mind.
	I knew any drugs would only make it worse, but I had to confront this stuff straight on.
	So I wasn't on any type, I wasn't addicted to anything.
	This was a pure and straight divine visual encounter is the best way of describing it.
	So I guess what I'm saying is a lot of these patients being diagnosed as schizophrenic or having schizophrenic disorders, there's something much more profound going on.
	It's a spiritual battle.
	It absolutely is.
	There's legitimacy to it.
	And I think if you instruct these patients that this is really what they're dealing with, it's going to make them easier to cure themselves and get themselves back on their feet.
	Because one of the things the voices want to do is make you believe that your thoughts or their thoughts belong to you.
	So they can put those thoughts into your mind, and if they can convince you that those thoughts are yours, you're in a lot worse shape than if you can separate and go, no, they're not mine.
	They belong to something else.
	And what psychiatry is doing is telling them those are their thoughts, that their head is broken, their brain is broken, and there's nothing they can do about it except take these toxic drugs.
	This is a spiritual battle.
	There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
	What do you think would have happened if you'd accepted that sort of pact with the devil that you were being offered for worldly success?
	Do you think it would have come to pass?
	You mean, would I have gained instantaneous fame, wealth, power, and fortune?
	Yeah.
	I would say yes.
	I would say yes.
	Because it was showing me the path to do so.
	And believe me, I was in a fragmented state.
	My goggles of any looking into the future, they were broken.
	There was like mud thrown on them.
	I had no hope.
	And the offer was tempting.
	But I also had a feeling that the offer is being made for a reason.
	It had an ulterior motive behind this offer.
	I had something similar where one The voices in one patient were offering me a lottery number and said if I would back off, they would give me this lottery number that would win a bunch of bucks.
	I went, screw you.
	They try to bribe you.
	They definitely do.
	So you got to be strong.
	If you realize it's a spiritual battle, it's easier to win because you know that you can do it.
	And you're dealing with the truth.
	You're not dealing with some, you know, psychiatric mafia fabricated lie that your brain is broken and there is no hope except they're toxic expensive medications.
	You're closer to the real truth of the matter.
	Jerry, you mentioned before that they hate the 23rd Psalm particularly.
	Yes.
	Did you find that anonymous?
	I don't know if I was specifically reading that particular song, but I was reading the Bible at the time and trying to see what good I can do in the world by reading it for myself a little bit.
	And I think they didn't like that.
	I think they saw it as a threat.
	That's why I think those attacks started because they're like, oh, somebody's getting closer to the truth here.
	We can't allow this to happen.
	And it's almost like, I guess, Demons go after saints, I guess.
	I don't know what to say about that.
	Yeah, they do.
	They go after priests big time.
	I felt like what I was doing was a self-exorcist on myself.
	And again, I have a very rational mind.
	I mean, I have a degree in engineering.
	You got to be very rational, logical to be able to do engineering design work.
	But I also knew of psychology a little bit because I guess I sort of minored in it, took some courses on it.
	But I have to come to grips with what occurred and what had happened.
	And the fact that I'd never seen those images before of a creature with a serpentine body and a lion, dog-like face.
	And then I see it 30 years later during my research for writing my book.
	I'm like, wow, there's just something legitimate going on here.
	There are some spiritual wars going out there with humanity.
	And I think We're getting very close to winning those wars.
	I know the world seems chaotic these days, like nonsensical what's going on out there.
	If you look at these patterns that we were talking about, and then you look at what the mainstream media has been telling us all over the planet right now, the patterns are the same.
	Isolate yourself, stay away from people.
	It's the exact same pattern.
	It's the same entity that is coming through the media right now.
	What these entities do though, as far as the solitude goes, they're trying to make you not feel comfortable in your solitude.
	If you learn to feel comfortable in your solitude, to be alone with yourself and be happy with yourself, being alone with yourself, you're okay.
	The entities, they don't have any power over you.
	It's those people that can't be alone with themselves, I think is who these entities also go after.
	Because they realize once they isolate these people, They're more vulnerable to their attacks.
	And they can sense the turmoil like sharks smell blood.
	Where are you now in terms of your religious faith?
	Would you describe yourself as a Gnostic or as a Christian or what?
	I used to call myself a generic Christian.
	But I call myself a generic religious person.
	I am definitely very religious, not in the dogmatic sense.
	I think there's a perennial philosophy out there where there's a commonality of goodness in all the great world religions.
	The problem is we distort them and we focus on some of the bad aspects of those religions for power and control.
	But true religion is really about freeing the human spirit.
	It's about developing a good relationship with the universe.
	And I guess by default, I'm becoming a Gnostic.
	And it's not because I'm choosing that path.
	It's just like, all these experiences so coincide with what Gnosticism talks about.
	This Demiurge, this alternate being with a serpentine body and a lion-like head.
	And I saw that.
	I came face to face with it.
	And they cut all that out of the Bible, right?
	Didn't they cut Gnosticism out?
	The Council of Nicaea, I think it was 3rd or 4th century.
	And there's, I mean, there's definitely truth within the Gospel Bible itself, I believe, but I think we're not getting the whole story.
	Yes.
	There's more going on out there that meets the eye.
	Now, the Roman Catholic Church, I think they view this entity as just another demon out there.
	Well, the Gnostics take it to a higher level.
	The Gnostics say that, okay, this is the head archon.
	This is the bad maker of this world.
	There's the higher transcendent God, which is ultimate love and goodness above this entity.
	There's so many things in mythology and other religions that have such similar stories about some being that believes it's actually the maker of the universe and the world where it's not.
	There's a higher entity, a transcendental, something that we cannot comprehend way above that.
	And that kind of gets in some of the Gnostic stories of Sophia and the Demiurge and how it goes back and forth.
	You can call it Yaldabaoth, Samuel.
	There's all different names and stories and perspectives.
	And I try to kind of embrace them all.
	Sometimes they contradict a little bit too, but I definitely believe there's a commonality with all the world's religions.
	And it's something that humanity has to come to terms with, to realize there's more than just this world of matter that we live in.
	There's a greater reality out there.
	So I'm very religious in that sense, you know, to say, do I have a faith or a belief in God?
	I would say, no, I know there's a God.
	I think that God is both feminine and masculine.
	And I think the transcendent God can manifest in different emanations.
	Sometimes it can appear to us as saints, as angels, as masculine or feminine, or even androgynous at times too.
	It's a busy universe out there in both material realm and the spiritual realms.
	You're constantly surrounded by spiritual beings and they're constantly, you know, the The bad ones are putting negative thoughts about yourself and other people in your head.
	And if they can get you to believe that, they're going to turn you negative.
	And then you're going to start doing negative things.
	You have to watch what comes into your mind.
	And ask yourself, where do these thoughts come from?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's probably, it's been a fascinating conversation with both of you.
	Thank you so much.
	I think it's, I've probably taken up enough of your time.
	And that's really, really good story.
	And thank you, Anonymous.
	You're quite welcome, James.
	I definitely enjoy and like tell my story to help others out there with their spiritual battles.
	And I'd like to conclude a little bit with where we are now.
	We have a psychiatric mafia and big pharma who've taken over the mental health system.
	There's more psych drugs now than ever, and the population is in worse shape than ever.
	CDC said the suicide rate hit the highest level since World War II.
	From 2006 to 2016, suicides have increased by 2% a year, with 1.4 million suicide attempts in 2007 and 47,000 deaths.
	by 2% a year with 1.4 million suicide attempts in 2007 and 47,000 deaths.
	That's almost equivalent to the Vietnam War deaths.
	The prisons are full of psychotics that have been thrown in there because these drugs that psychiatry and Big Pharma are putting into people don't work.
	You know, you've got the jails and prisons filled with mentally ill and homeless, and these drugs are doing nothing except drugging them down.
	And they have cut research for schizophrenia down to a dribble.
	They do not want a cure for paranoid schizophrenia.
	They will not deal with the spiritual aspects As we've been talking about, this is a spiritual disorder.
	This is not anything to do with physical.
	This is an energetic, spiritual disorder.
	And until they've come to grips with that, they're never going to have a cure.
	They'll say they do.
	They've made up all these lies saying, oh yeah, it's caused by this, it's caused by mothers, it's caused by genetics, it's caused by a chemical brain.
	They always have some lie that they put in there to try to feed you.
	This is a spiritual disorder.
	Jerry, where can people get hold of you?
	I'm sure this will prompt a lot of people, you know, people maybe who've suffered these problems, who want to know that there's people out there who understand, just to make sense of their experiences.
	You've written books, haven't you?
	Yeah, I got this one here.
	Let me see if I can get it in there.
	Yeah, an amazing journey into the psychotic mind.
	This kind of tells the story of how I came about to find this.
	And George... I'm getting used to it, don't worry about it.
	The demons are working on you, Jerry.
	The demons are whispering in your head.
	Yeah, I think so.
	He's got a book also.
	This is the book that I wrote.
	It's called Revelations on Interstellar Highway 10.
	It's a beefy read.
	But it's more of a religious journey.
	It's a spiritual journey for anyone from any religions or no religion at all.
	And this was actually written partially by the influence of that porcelain mass entity I call ZOA, kind of a muse in a sense.
	And I have a website, it's called astroxrising.com.
	It's spelled A-S-T-E-R-O-X-R-I-S-I-N-G dot com.
	That shows at least where somebody can get the book if they want it.
	Or your listening audience can just do an internet search for the book titled Revelations on Interstellar Highway 10.
	And the author is even listed as being anonymous on it, too, as well.
	So much!
	And my website is jerrymarzinski.com.
	M-A-R-Z-I-N-S-K-Y.
	And, yeah, I do have a clinical practice, and there's a way to sign up for sessions there.
	The book is available at It's available on Amazon.
	it's available at lulu.com also brilliant Jamie do you post links with your channel yeah I do I'll send you a link to my website that way if your listening audience wants to check out the book or anything like that it will make it easier for them to find it that's great - Okay.
	Chaps, whatever you want to call yourselves, it's been really great talking to you.
	And it remains for me to thank you all for watching this.
	And if you want to support me, I hope you will and can, you can support me on Patreon, on Subscribestar, on Locals, I'm big on Locals, and on Substack.
	So I really appreciate your support and I hope you enjoyed this podcast.
	Thanks very much and thank you gentlemen.
	It's been a pleasure.
	Thanks for having us.

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