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May 4, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

02:12:33

THE DELINGPOD LIVE: AN EVENING WITH JAMES DELINGPOLE & MAAJID NAWAZ | SPONSORED BY CAR26

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	Well, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
	Good evening.
	Thank you very much, James, and welcome everybody to this super spreader event.
	And you may not know this, but I've been reading Time Out.
	I've been reading my listings guides, and you are sitting in what is the number one recording of a libertarian podcast in a church in the whole of Westminster this Friday evening, ladies and gents. . ladies and gents. .
	It doesn't get any better than this.
	So my name's Dominic, Dominic Frisby.
	My pronouns are me, me, me, me, me, And I shall be comparing this evening's proceedings for you.
	Give me a big cheer if you've heard of me.
	Give me a cheer if you've never heard of me.
	You ignorant fools!
	For those of you that have never heard of me, as well as being a stand-up comedian and occasional songwriter, I'm a writer.
	In fact, first and foremost, I see myself as a writer if any of you have seen The Inbetweeners, or The IT Crowd, or way back when, The Fast Show.
	So have I. And I thought they were all really good.
	I thought they were fantastic.
	And I just wish I'd had a part in their creation.
	So, let me explain.
	I am, as you can see, a white, straight, middle-class, middle-aged man.
	So, if you are looking for someone to blame for everything that's wrong in the world, I've got plenty to offer.
	Now, so let me explain how this evening's going to work, ladies and gents.
	It's an evening of two halves, very traditional, very conventional in that form.
	The first half is a panel discussion by Car 26, this evening's sponsors.
	Woo!
	All about cars, presumably.
	And then we're going to take an interval, and then in the second half, I'm going to come and do some songs for you.
	And then the headline event, James will be talking to Majad, and that will be the second half of the show.
	So, does everyone understand how it works?
	Good stuff.
	So let us welcome our Car 26 panel, ladies and gents.
	And I'm going to do it quite quickly so it sort of speeds it along, but we start off with Lois Perry!
	And then we have Lance Foreman!
	And then we have Lawrence Fox!
	And then we have Andre Walker!
	And finally, we have Lorraine Allinson, the fracking queen.
	And you guys are going to talk for about half an hour.
	And Lois, I think you are the moderator, the compare of this little bit.
	That's right, I'm the director of Car 26, you can say chairman if you like.
	She is the chairman and director.
	So I leave you with Lois, ladies and gents, and off we go.
	Hello, good evening and welcome.
	For those of you that I've not yet had the pleasure of meeting, my name is Lois Perry and I'm the director of Car 26, which has nothing to do with cars, actually.
	It's climate analysis reason.
	And, well, it's a little bit to do with cars.
	And I'm delighted to be hosting tonight.
	Discussion about climate change, alleged, global warming, alleged, and the cost of living crisis, which is unfortunately extremely real and completely unavoidable.
	In fact, we're doing a little bit of warming ourselves.
	We're the warm-up act with my hot guests tonight for the main event, which is obviously James Dellenpole and Majid Nawaz.
	Yeah.
	Car 26 was formed last year to take the piss out of Cop 26, but they actually managed to do that quite well themselves.
	With the whole circus falling down and actually the minister in charge ending up actually crying his eyes out, so there you go.
	Our main successes today include launching the first poll in October last year to do with net zero.
	We actually did a poll which showed that 58% of those that expressed an opinion wanted a net zero referendum and that was back then.
	So imagine what it would be like now with all our wonderful campaigning that we've done at Car 26 and also with the cost of living crisis and everything that's been going on.
	We also launched a campaign to end the ban on fracking.
	We've got 16,000 signatures, but we need to get to that magic 100,000 to have it debated in Parliament.
	That's if the MPs aren't too busy watching porn on their phones or crossing and uncrossing their legs.
	Yes, Angela, anything you can do, I can do better.
	And we have been appearing on a host of TV and radio shows, fighting the fight for common sense, climate sense and living sense.
	Tonight, on our heroic panel, we have Lance Forman, the King of Smoked Salmon, businessman, We have a former politician with broad enough shoulders and big enough balls, or so he tells me repeatedly, to be able to speak his mind.
	We have Andre Walker, who, like lads, you laugh in the face of woke 21st century castle culture.
	Damn right.
	And you always call a spade a shovel.
	Is that right?
	Shovel!
	A shovel!
	A shovel.
	Lorraine Allinson, the Queen of Fracking.
	She has fought the fracking campaigners.
	She's lived and breathed it, and you're an expert.
	And you've got your book on sale, which you can buy in the foyer.
	And finally, Lawrence, what can I say?
	But by no means least, the fantastic Mr Fox, my good friend, inspiring partner, leader of the Reclaim Party, who describes himself on Twitter as ahead of the curve.
	And who are we to disagree?
	Thank you so much to all of you for being here with me tonight.
	So, Lance, what's all this got to do with the price of fish, eh?
	Thank you, Lois, for that fabulous introduction.
	What's it got to do with the price of fish?
	It's got everything to do with the price of fish.
	I mean, it literally has everything to do with the price of fish.
	Because fish prices, I mean, I know about salmon prices, and salmon prices have shot up by 60% since the start of the year.
	I first started getting interested in this whole debate about climate change last October, when my business faced It's electricity costs of £200,000.
	That was double.
	And we're only a small business.
	That's a hell of a lot of extra fish to sell, actually, to cover that.
	And interestingly, I was called by an electricity broker a couple of days ago.
	Who was trying to sell me electricity, and I said, look, it's too late, I've tied up for three years.
	And I said, but what would we be paying if we negotiated a deal now?
	And she said, £600,000.
	Right.
	So, prices are crazy.
	And we buy lots of other foods.
	Egg prices, dairy, it's gone up 25, 30%.
	Everything is shooting up.
	And I don't think politicians have got a clue about what's really happening.
	The official figures are supposed to be about Seven or eight percent inflation.
	I'm sure we're well into double figures already.
	And I think that, you know, I really think it's going to get very serious out there by the end of the year.
	We might end up with riots on the streets, not Extinction Rebellion riots, but real riots for people that cannot afford to heat or eat.
	I am, in a sense, quite hopeful that the cost of living crisis could be the end of net zero.
	Because I think that...
	You know, this is an awakening, and I think that, you know, what we've heard over the last couple of years from politicians the whole time is we keep hearing, oh, you've got to follow the science, or we're following the science.
	If you're in business, you don't just follow one thing, you take a whole lot of things into consideration.
	You follow the science, you follow the, you know, Well, Covid showed us that.
	If you follow the science and not look at the collateral damage, look what happens.
	Exactly.
	We followed the science, supposedly.
	It might have been your science, but not everybody else's science.
	We had this lockdown.
	It's bankrupted.
	It's bankrupted our economy.
	We're paying that back now.
	You know, people are saying the war is the cost of food prices going up.
	It's not the war.
	It's because we've screwed ourselves by handing over all our energy to Russia, and we're funding this mad war.
	We are the ones that are funding it.
	It is crazy.
	So, you know, we need some, as you say, common sense.
	Absolutely.
	And Lorraine, you were talking to me about the corruption that's going on.
	You know, basically the people that were in charge of the fracking campaigns that targeted you in Yorkshire, that you've written about in your book, are now the head of the energy companies.
	Is that right?
	The renewable solar energy companies in your area?
	That's disgusting, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	One of the chief main people who fought against fracking and who formed Frack Free United, which was an umbrella group for all the Frack Free Groups actually now is a director of several renewable companies and although he didn't want fracking in our area with a little well pad and I live in the Vale of Pickering and there's eight already conventional well pads and a gas-powered generating station the indigenous population don't mind gas at all.
	But he fought against that.
	He said it would industrialise the countryside.
	He's now planning to put hundreds of acres of solar panels over good farmland.
	A couple of the big people in the anti-fracking movement are doing that.
	It's so corrupt, really.
	And, you know, their argument is, oh, well, we need solar.
	But yet they're industrialising the countryside.
	How can you say that's good for the planet if you're covering it with glass and plastic and then you can't recycle it?
	Because it's nothing to do with saving the Absolutely.
	Well, when we were in the midst of all the anti-fracking going on in our area, Friends of the Earth were very involved.
	100% but I mean you've talked a lot about NGOs deliberately putting misinformation out to kids haven't you talk to us about that well when we were in the midst of all the anti-fracking going on in our area friends of the earth were very involved they would help set up the local little groups they would say it was grassroots groups but actually it wasn't they were behind it and And they produced a leaflet with eight sides and five sides of that leaflet were actually begging for money.
	It's all a money racket to them.
	And on that leaflet they said there would be health issues with fracking, your house price would plummet, you know, it would industrialise the countryside.
	And actually two old guys complained to the Advertising Standards Authority because as a charity you cannot lie to fundraise.
	And they spent 14 months did Friends of the Earth fighting that, and eventually they had to agree with the Advertising Standards Authority that they would not reproduce that leaflet.
	But they very cleverly then swapped to their limited company.
	So it's the same premises, same staff, same logo, the only difference is in the small print He says limited or trust.
	Didn't they target your nieces and nephews?
	They put photographs of your children on the internet and encouraged people to attack them.
	That's right they did.
	They used children a lot actually as a weapon.
	Not only did they do that to me and that was the first thing they did when they found out I was standing up in favour of fracking.
	They then actually would get placards and have protests and they would have children holding a placard saying fracking poisons the environment and children.
	And you'd have these very sad worried looking children holding these placards.
	And another thing they did in our area was they went outside of Pickering Junior School and they were handing out leaflets that were dreadful about fracking.
	It was all misinformation.
	Not to the parents, to the five-year-olds as they were coming out.
	I mean, it's been a disgrace.
	They want to get into their little brains, don't they?
	Yes, they do!
	They do, but we're talking about slightly older people now.
	Don't look at me!
	No, no, I'm not looking at you!
	I'm not looking at you!
	Would I look at you?
	Jesus Christ!
	I didn't mean it like that!
	I thought I was looking good!
	You were talking to me about your concerns for 20-somethings in the Lancashire area, the unemployed, and about the fact that if nuclear was brought to the area, you could buy a flat for the same price in Morecambe as an apprentice's salary.
	Is that right?
	Yeah, but before I do that, I've got to say hello to my next-door neighbour's right-side tray in the audience.
	I have to say, I'm deeply dippy about your vaccine status, and it's great.
	It's great to see.
	It's great to see some celebrities who aren't well.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Are you too sexy for your shirt, Andre?
	Now let me tell you, my number one policy when it comes to environmentalism is this, to take Sir Ed Davey, Ed Miliband and David Cameron out to Parliament Square and publicly flog them for the way that they have plunged people into poverty in this country.
	Let me tell you, when you're talking about what goes on in Lancashire at the moment, we have had a war fought against us in terms of allowing fracking, just as it's happened in Yorkshire.
	You are talking about the dishonesty in the media of saying a level 2 seismic event on the Richter scale is an earthquake.
	That is complete nonsense.
	I lived on the Lancashire Coalfield for many years and alterations in the substructure are not unusual and you would sleep through a level 2 as far as I'm concerned.
	Is it the same as a bus going past?
	Well, it certainly wasn't for me.
	And bear in mind, when I was at primary school, when I was at primary school, I didn't even drink, so I never kind of slept through this thing.
	But then there was the other thing that I saw when I was in Lancashire, and it was the Hesham 1 and Hesham 2 nuclear power stations capable of producing around 4% of the national grid, which is, on a regular day, far more than wind turbines would create.
	And we fought and fought against further nuclear because of the dishonesty in the accounting that took place.
	What you have to do, the strike price at which the government or the grid pays for the fuel is based on the cost of production.
	If you lie about how long a nuclear power station is going to live for, if you lie about how much it's going to cost to decommission, then you push up the strike price and you falsely make it look like Nuclear's the most expensive green technology in the country.
	That is absolute bullshit.
	It simply isn't.
	And then, when also, in Heysham, remember, is the port of Heysham, where you can get a lovely ferry to the Isle of Man, Dublin or Belfast, but not... Hey, there we are!
	There we are.
	There we are.
	I could tell it was you.
	Your eyes were too close together.
	No, no, no, no.
	But the Isle of Man steam packet company says that if there is any more offshore wind, then that is going to restrict the number of services that they can sail, and instead to get to Belfast from places like Liverpool and Manchester, you will have to fly instead.
	And the final point I'd make is about smart meters and the reason that I want to take Ed Miliband out and flog him.
	If Elon Musk was sat here he You'd probably like it, Andre.
	No, no, no.
	Whenever you think about these people, they would do the obvious thing on smart metering, which is to have your appliances operate at times when energy is cheaper.
	But that's not what smart metering does.
	Smart metering tells you how much to boil a kettle.
	Who cares?
	But it's a fundamental mindset between those of us that believe that we should have greener energy through things like nuclear, through things like fracking, which bear in mind is a better hydrocarbon than coal, through things like clean coal, between those people and the people that want to return us to the Stone Age by constantly putting up the price and forcing us to use less.
	And it's deliberate.
	And let me tell you one thing about Greta Thunberg.
	It is bloody easy to tell people there's no such thing as future economic growth when you're sitting on a four million pound yacht.
	We have lifted a billion people out of poverty in the past 20 years.
	And if we stop the Greta Thunbergs, if we stop the Ed Davies, if we stop the Ed Miliband, and if we stop the David Cameron's, we'll lift another billion people out of poverty in the next 20 years.
	Oh, by the way, by the way, Lenby Topic can flog Ed Davey for me.
	Really?
	Well, I think they both really enjoyed that.
	Not like that, not like that, not like that.
	The cheeky girls are gone, you've only got Right Said Fred.
	Will Right Said Fred do, Lenby?
	Yeah, go on, go on.
	They're fairly cheeky.
	Right, shut up.
	OK.
	Lawrence, freedom of speech, climate issues, there isn't any, and why is that?
	I'm very sceptical of anything with the word zero in it.
	Yeah, me too, yeah.
	Especially after the last couple of years, because we've seen how well that worked out.
	I don't like being lectured to by children who use more carbon than my mum, or 25 of my mums did.
	And I think ideologically driven political practices always lead to mass death and mass destruction.
	And I think that we need to smash the ideology of it.
	The point here is, are we allowed to have a conversation about energy?
	Are we ready for Renewables in Carrie Johnson's vision of how the country should.
	And I would say that I spent the last two years as I try and morph from fairly average actor to fairly shit politician.
	Spending a lot of time going to communities that are really directly affected by this stuff and What you notice time and time and time again is that I went to a place in Durham where they closed an overcast coal mine and we had the best coal in the world.
	It's just one of the things, we had the best trout streams in the world.
	And it's just one of the accidents of being British.
	And they're exporting brown coal in from Australia to fire a coal power station just so the woke people in Durham feel better about themselves.
	Doesn't make any sense.
	On a freedom of speech level, we're getting so diversified to the point where I want to go, fuck you.
	Yeah.
	Not, let's have a chat about it, because it's the same with COVID.
	You know, if you didn't do all the COVID stuff, you're an evil, satanic bastard.
	If you didn't do the mean two stuff, you're an evil, satanic bastard.
	If you don't go with trans rights, you're an evil, satanic bastard.
	And if you don't do the climate thing, it's an evil, satanic bastard.
	I'm sort of generally of the view that most things can be sorted out over a dinner table amongst friends.
	And if they can't be sorted out over a dinner table amongst friends, then they can be sorted out over a dinner table amongst not friends.
	But the idea that the climate is in some way a non-disputable issue...
	For me, it tells me that the climate is not an issue that we should ignore.
	We should talk about it calmly and peacefully and just say, look, everywhere people are grabbing at us.
	They're grabbing at our ideologies.
	They're trying to grab the way we think and we should I was always taught when I was a kid to resist that way of thinking, because it's extremism.
	Well, we weren't allowed to talk about Covid, were we?
	And now we're not.
	We were.
	Some of us did.
	But we're not at the beginning.
	And actually, to be fair to James tonight, who put a huge amount of his shit on the line, James has always been very intellectually consistent in his view on Covid.
	Yeah, he's been absolutely amazing.
	Now, other people can disagree, but the point is, he's allowed a point of view, I'm allowed my point of view, you're allowed your point of view.
	The idea that we can just shovel climate into the debate and go, if you don't believe that the giant sun monster is playing a part, it is!
	The sun is playing a part.
	I mean, God forbid anybody say that the Arctic ice caps got a bit thicker this year.
	Or that there was a medieval warming period, or there was a Roman warming period.
	I was raised in a traditional way.
	And the way I was raised was my parents tried to make a better life for their children than they had for themselves.
	That's what we were trying to do, isn't it?
	I will not and do not want to live in a world where I raise my children to believe that they're a virus on this planet destroying it.
	I think it's an absolutely appalling abomination in the way we raise our children.
	So do you think this is about taking us back to the Stone Age?
	Do you think this is about taking us back?
	Do you think that this is purely a libertarian control issue in the same way that Covid has been?
	No, it's not.
	It's religious.
	It's got nothing to do... And you think it's in the cult?
	You believe it's funded?
	No, it's not a cult.
	It's not a cult.
	It's a religion.
	Right.
	The great thing about religion is in religion you have an outside force.
	And you're accountable to that outside force, right?
	So be it God, be it, you know, well, it is God in every case.
	But here we have a secular religion, which is inward looking.
	And the problem with inward looking man-made religions is that, as they point out in every religious text you'll ever read, is that men are sinful, women are sinful.
	When I say men, I mean all of us.
	We are sinful creatures, and we have the opportunity to be better.
	But we can only be better if we're accountable to something outside of ourselves, not something within ourselves.
	So this inward-looking, woke shit needs to fucking end.
	Thank you, absolutely.
	It's a fucking disaster.
	Why are the governments bowing down to all this, then, this religion, Lance?
	Because they're mad, quite frankly.
	I mean, I think they're getting things wrong morally and tactically.
	The moral thing that I don't really get is how they can argue that what we're trying to do here with all this green policy, there's all this green bullshit, is, you know, we've got to save the planet for our great-grandchildren.
	I mean, if our children and we are struggling, who are we saving it for?
	By the time our great grandchildren are around, you know, we will have, you know, technology will have found solutions to the problems.
	You know, we need to adapt in time.
	If indeed there are any problems, because there's that saying, isn't it?
	Indeed, there might not be any problems.
	97% of scientists agree with whoever's paying them, yeah?
	Exactly, exactly.
	So I think, I just don't think there's a moral case, but also tactically.
	And I remember when I was at college many, many moons ago, And you had all those CND people campaigning on Green and Common for unilateral nuclear disarmament.
	And the idea was, well, if we lead the way, the others will follow.
	And of course, everybody, any sensible politician, and certainly conservative politicians back in the time, knew that was complete nuts.
	And it's the same thing now.
	If China and India and Russia aren't following Net Zero, even if you believe it, which I don't, but even if you did, It's mad to impoverish ourselves when they're not doing it.
	It's completely nuts.
	No, it doesn't make any sense.
	Andre, do you want it to come in?
	Yeah.
	I mean, I used to work at the House of Commons, both as a senior parliamentary assistant and then as James Dellingpole's lobby correspondent.
	I wasn't very good at either, but... Well, never mind.
	They paid me anyway.
	But actually, what you tended to find was there's just a whole social cluster of people that talk to themselves.
	You know, the reason that you will get cancelled, if you're Lawrence, say, from Sky News... I'm not cancelled!
	No, it's cancelled!
	We're not doing very well here, are we?
	Just an example of anyone.
	The reason you might get cancelled is because, effectively, not of the viewers of any TV show, not of the listeners of any radio station, it will just be that the producer goes to a dinner party in Hampstead that weekend, where everyone goes, why the hell did you get on?
	It's probably Muswell Hill.
	It probably is.
	But I think that that is the way that nobody seems to be interested.
	But you go to the House of Commons now, and every single person walks up to you and goes, I completely agree with you on vaccinations, I completely agree with you on lockdown, I completely agree with you on net zero, I just can't say it.
	And you think to yourself, have a fucking backbone!
	Yeah, no, absolutely.
	Right, come on.
	My Yorkshire lass, come on, sort it all out.
	What are we going to do?
	How are we going to resolve this?
	Get rid of the weak politicians.
	Because they are a pain.
	When it came to fracking, they haven't the backbone to take control and make it go ahead.
	Make it of national importance.
	They just let it float along.
	The companies wasted about 400 million trying to invest in it and Ed Davey, who in the coalition was head of energy, working out of BASE, which is supposed to be about business and industrial strategy, he made sure that the regulations were too strict for it to succeed.
	He actually admitted that recently on Andrew Marr's show.
	And you think, why were you in the position you were in?
	Because you're against business.
	And people sort of get on about Jim Ratcliffe from Ineos because he moved and took his Grenadier to be built abroad.
	Well, after all the flak had taken over the fracking, because he was prepared to invest, and he'd invested about 240 million in it, He got no support.
	None of the companies got any support and yet the government was supposedly supporting them.
	I've never been paid by anybody to campaign.
	I campaigned, I funded it myself.
	Because people say, oh, the fossil fuel industry.
	We need stronger politicians.
	We do.
	And we need gas.
	You're not going to stop using gas like that.
	No, no, we're not.
	Lawrence, I just wanted to say, actually, how extraordinarily impressed I've been with the work that you've been doing against all the child grooming shit that's been going on recently.
	That's amazing.
	Thank you.
	Family sex show.
	What the bloody hell is that about?
	Yeah.
	And how can we stop our kids from being indoctrinated with the green rubbish?
	Well, it's really important, isn't it, to understand that you've got big state, small man.
	So... And men and women are different.
	Sorry for any transgender people out there.
	Yeah.
	Any sane person does know that.
	Men and women are different.
	So when the state tries to put its arms into your family... Yeah.
	Which it did over child vaccinations, and Savage Jabbit did it today.
	It did it today saying, we can give your child a COVID pass.
	And it's like, we, the government, can reach into your family, into the very most sacred things.
	The only way knowledge and truth are passed from generation to generation, and that's with all understanding that families are very different, is from an elder to a younger.
	And that's how it's done.
	The state coming in and sexualising our children is an abomination.
	It is an abomination.
	And terrifying the life out of them.
	It's more than that.
	And I think James probably would... You know, James is further down the rabbit hole than I am on this one.
	I do believe in God, right?
	And at the very least, if I wanted to secularise it, I'd say I believe in good and evil, or good and bad, or whatever it is.
	But this is an extremely dangerous time for our children.
	It is, and it's extremely dark.
	Because if the state can put its hand into your child and say, here, we're going to send you a text to your mobile, you can get vaccinated for a disease that's going to do you absolutely no harm at all, for which there has been no public debate whatsoever, And that state can pit its child against its parent.
	You are fucked as a society.
	It's game over.
	No, absolutely.
	Now, that doesn't mean that you can't have two dads or two mums or whatever.
	We are a liberal, progressive, secular democracy.
	But scaring the life out of them with the Green indoctrination is specifically that the world is going to end.
	I think it's not... You don't teach your children.
	It's horrific, absolutely horrific.
	You do not teach your children that they're a virus destroying this planet.
	No, you certainly don't.
	Because that's what Dr fucking Fauci has done for the last 10 years.
	Thank you.
	Can I say something about children?
	Do you mind if I just respond to that?
	Because I think this was Tony Blair under the Children's Act.
	When I was a little baby, I was what's called an ABO baby, I was dying.
	And my mother, as part of her mother's instinct, insisted I had medical care that doctors didn't recognise.
	Nowadays, if a parent disagrees with a medic, the medic can overrule them, even if that means the child dies.
	That's the Tony Blair Children's Act, and we need to get rid of that as well.
	That was where the problem started.
	No, no, what we need to get rid of, what we need to get rid of It is not the Children's Act.
	We need to say, Tony Blair, thanks very much, mate.
	Fuck off.
	That's what we need to do.
	You know, well done.
	Well done for getting all those people to vote for you and getting in Mondeo, man, and all that crap that you did.
	But you bombed a million Iraqis.
	You killed a million innocent civilians.
	You fucking war criminal.
	And then, you know, stop all of this.
	Stop all of this stupid...
	Massive ridiculous virtue signaling.
	You know, you notice everyone's taking their Ukraine facts out of their bios.
	Well, there's no one more virtuous or virtue-sickening than a green, woke, old protester sticking himself.
	We're actually very, very disappointed because we did actually have some super glue here for anyone that wanted to come onto the stage and glue themselves to any of our panellists, but no one's volunteered.
	Anyway, I'd just like to say thank you so much, but sadly, my dear panellists, that's all we've got time for.
	For those of you in the audience, let me leave you with some special requests.
	CAR26 is a very, very, very young organisation.
	It's climate analysis reasons, so we're fighting carbon net zero nonsense wherever we can, but we're up against the globalist agenda, the UN, the EU, the mainstream media, everyone basically, and we need your help.
	Your energy bills are set to go up by £1,000 if not more this year.
	So let us help you by stopping your subsidies for the wind farms when the wind doesn't blow and the solar panels for the sun when the sun doesn't shine by telling the energy companies to stick their energy bills up where the sun doesn't shine.
	Yeah.
	You can find a link on our website, so press the donate button Alternatively, if you want something for your donation back right now, we have some extremely sexy Car 26 t-shirts and sweatshirts available in the foyer, and it will make you really, really attractive, especially to me.
	Well, all of us, actually.
	Lawrence, Lance, all of us.
	And finally, as mentioned, please, please, Please sign our end the fracking petition.
	If you get your phones out, get them out.
	Come on guys, get them out.
	Get them out right now.
	Get the phones out.
	Go on to Google.
	Google end fracking ban.
	Go on to the thing.
	It's quite a lot of work, Lois, to be fair.
	It is, I know.
	I'm sorry, I know.
	And it is late in the day, Liza, isn't it?
	It is late in the day.
	For somebody who's used to clicking a link.
	What's the giggle?
	Help him out.
	End fracking ban.
	Click on the link.
	Then you have to click on it again.
	Clickety-click.
	If you're feeling very generous, get your friends to do it as well.
	And let's get fracking.
	So, thank you for listening.
	Thank you to my panel.
	And, yeah, see you all again soon.
	Fuel freedom!
	Hey!
	Hey!
	Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen.
	Thank you very much to our panel, Lois Perry, Lance Forman, Lawrence Fox, Andre Walker and Lorraine Allinson.
	and we're going to take a 15-minute break.
	Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the second half of tonight's amazing show. - Whoa!
	Yes, yes, yes.
	And it's song time, ladies and gents, it's song time.
	I used to have one of those mobile phone holsters, you know the ones, and according to my ex, that's everything you need to know about me.
	There we go, right.
	There was a lot of arguing and A lot of discussion in the first half, a lot of libertarian sentiment.
	I don't do what the government says.
	I don't believe a word that they say.
	I know that's because I was at school with half of them.
	I know what they're like, right.
	And this whole trans thing is really kicking off at the moment as well.
	I just think we've got to be more tolerant and we can't do stuff that offends them because some of those girls can throw one heck of a hard punch.
	Right, this is a song ladies and gents.
	Is that coming out?
	Good.
	We're going to do a song now.
	This is a song about how there are two sides to everything.
	They said he was respectable, reliable and true.
	The man to lead America and lead the free world too.
	He'd heal all the division with dignity and charm.
	The solid hand of competence experienced and calm.
	No more Twitter rants, no more alt-right or orange threats.
	Yet.
	Maybe Joe Biden shouldn't be in charge.
	Should someone that's seen I'll even be at large.
	Afghanistan is worse than Nam.
	He's not even vaguely repentant.
	Just bullies and rants.
	Can't string together a sentence.
	And as for Ukraine, he simply abstained.
	It's like he's not even been in attendance.
	Maybe Joe Biden shouldn't be in charge.
	They said it's an emergency.
	This one's for James.
	You cannot comprehend the magnitude, the urgency, the world's about to end.
	We must do what these experts say if we are to avoid extinction and oblivion.
	Act now or be destroyed.
	The end is nigh.
	This fact must be addressed.
	Nevertheless... Maybe climate change is just a hoax.
	A racket to exploit well-meaning folk.
	To get subsidies, grants and aid advanced, they say there's no solution.
	Really, the goal is social control and to sell absolution.
	Maybe climate change is just a hoax.
	APPLAUSE And this next one's for Lawrence.
	They said that it would save us.
	Get us back to where we were.
	Thank goodness for Big Pharma.
	On that we can concur.
	Just two little jabs and that is all that we will need.
	And we'll have herd immunity.
	And we will all be freed.
	To protect us all.
	To protect you.
	To protect me.
	Well, possibly.
	Thank you.
	Do the clapping in the next one because this one's not in time.
	Until we are abreast of all the facts.
	Thank you.
	Do the clapping in the next one, because this one's not in time.
	I've forgotten where we were.
	Now two's not enough.
	It's like we've been bluffed.
	Young men now at risk more than seniors.
	Sudden deaths galore.
	Heart, blood clots and more.
	Thrombocytopenia.
	And that is the only time you will ever hear that word in a song.
	Maybe we shouldn't rush to have the backs.
	Thank you. .
	They said he's Stalin born again, another Russian Tsar.
	There's nothing that he will not do, he cannot go too far.
	Dissenters jailed or murdered as this tyrant rules by fear.
	This autocratic overlord, this despotic racketeer.
	This power-crazy, imperialist, kleptocrat.
	Well, you could look at it like that.
	Maybe Vlad Putin just needs one up the bum.
	We should send Philip Schofield to go and give him one.
	He's gay, I assume.
	No straight man's that groomed.
	And what's with the riding bareback?
	A girlfriend appeared.
	She's really a beard.
	To wax his back, crack and ball sack.
	Maybe Vlad Putin just needs one off the bum.
	Thank you very much.
	Now, I'm gonna stand for this next song.
	This next song is called...
	Hate Speech.
	Hate Speech.
	Sometimes you find yourself with an opinion. .
	That's all it is, a point of view.
	You're not going to hurt anyone with it.
	You're not going to stab someone with your opinion.
	But it's not the right opinion.
	It's not the opinion they want you to have.
	And so, you keep it to yourself.
	They tell you their opinion.
	You may not even want to hear it, but they tell you.
	I'm not talking about taxi drivers here, but left-wing comedians.
	They tell you their opinion, man, they shove it down your throat.
	And you say, I'm not sure about that, there could be another side to that.
	And they look at you, and they say...
	You're a far-right racist homophobe!
	You're a fascist, you're a sexist, you're a xenophobe!
	You gambit, you ideologue, you chauvinist!
	You Tory scum, you capitalist!
	You're a bigot, you're a wingnut, you're a swivel-eyed loon!
	And you'll get your freaking justice, you extremist baboon!
	You're spreading hate.
	So I went for a drink the other day with a friend of mine and he was telling me that Jeremy Corbyn could have saved the country.
	Amen.
	And I said, I'm not sure about that.
	And he said, no, socialism is the best way to help people.
	And I said, I'm not sure about that either.
	I'm not even sure a lot of people want helping out.
	A lot of them just want to be left alone.
	And he said, these people need helping out, even if they don't know it.
	And socialism is the way.
	And I started thinking of places where they tried socialism.
	Russia.
	China.
	Germany had that National Socialism thing going on.
	Cuba.
	Venezuela.
	And I couldn't think of one where it had worked.
	And he said, no, that wasn't real socialism.
	Got infected with capitalism.
	And I said, are you sure?
	And he looked at me and he said, You're a far-right racist homophobe.
	You're a fascist, you're a sexist, you're a xenophobe.
	You patriarch, you're transphobic, biphobic, xenophobic.
	I'm offended by your views, you should do a lot of talking.
	Having wrong opinions is a hate crime.
	You're spreading hate.
	You're spreading hate!
	You're spreading hate!
	You're literally Hitler!
	So I went...
	That always come out the thing.
	A little bit too much hate there.
	It's a bit I always struggle with is getting it in the hole.
	Sorry, it's a bit crude.
	Sorry about that.
	Right, there we go.
	There we go.
	So I went for a drink the other day in that place, Webb Spoons.
	There we go.
	And there was a woman outside with a loud hailer telling people that if you go into Wetherspoons, since the owner Tim Martin came out in favour of Brexit, you go into Wetherspoons, you are funding hate.
	And I said, it's only £3.50 a pint.
	I'm not funding that much hate.
	I'm not funding that much.
	So I said, I'm part Italian, I've seen the youth unemployment down there and I don't support that.
	If you ask me, big government, big tech, big corporations, it's all part of the same problem.
	Decisions are better made locally.
	She looked at me.
	And she said... Fair enough.
	Thank you.
	Last song and then we'll get James and Majid on.
	Right.
	In time...
	Sorry.
	In times of strife and drama, When troubles come to men, The Indians have their karma, The Chinese have their zen.
	The Greeks believed in destiny to keep them firm and strong.
	The English, we have just one word when things go wrong.
	Oh, bollocks!
	Oh bollocks!
	It's pouring down, I'm going to get drenched.
	Oh bollocks!
	A bomb's just landed in this trench.
	Oh bollocks!
	I had to go to court, I lost the trial.
	I wrote 10,000 words and then erased the file.
	Oh, bollocks!
	William the Conqueror came across the sea King Harold lost his kingdom, his life, his legacy.
	When that notorious arrow pierced him in his eye, he shook his head so wearily and muttered with a sigh.
	Oh, bollocks, here comes a thousand years of Norman rule.
	Oh, bollocks, I've lost it all, I'm such a bloody fool.
	Oh, bollocks, history will never be the same.
	And no one in the future will ever know my name.
	Oh, bollocks.
	Thank you. - Thank you.
	Life is hard and cruel, it can really get you down.
	Just look it in the eye and meet it with a frown.
	Breathe in nice and deep, fill your lungs with air.
	Then utter every consonant and let me hear you swear.
	Oh bollocks, I just got hacked, my Bitcoin has been robbed.
	Oh bollocks, I used the wrong pronoun and lost me job.
	Oh bollocks!
	I accidentally messaged an old ex and now she's in my bedroom starting to undress.
	Oh, bollocks Ah, there's one more chorus Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
	Oh, bollocks, my country's going down the bloody drain Oh, bollocks, death will come for all of us one day Well, when he comes for me, this is what I'll say Oh, bollocks Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen
	Thank you, thank you Thank you.
	And now we come to the climax of tonight's show.
	Would you start off by first welcoming the man himself, Mr. James Dellingpole?
	Where's he gone?
	Magic? - Oh, I was waiting for you.
	Magic!
	Which side do you want, Majin?
	Ah!
	The gentleman, Majin Mera!
	Wow. - Wow.
	How... How...
	How exciting is this?
	How incredibly exciting.
	Do you want some water?
	I'd love some water, thank you.
	Before we go on, how many of you here, hands up, I can't really see, but hands up if I've burned you at some point online, in the Telegram group.
	I just want to say, First of all, you totally deserved it.
	What were you thinking?
	Like, annoying me.
	But secondly, I would like to say I'm genuinely sorry.
	I'm famous for being much nicer.
	The thing people say about me all the time is...
	He's so much nicer in real life than he is in... And it's true.
	I have a... I have an evil, sort of, chat room persona, and I have... You know, I give out free hugs.
	Anyone who wants a hug tonight, you can have the hug, and it's not given insincerely.
	I love you all.
	Thank you so much.
	So much for coming.
	And thank you also to our sponsors, to Car 26, to Lois and Loza, and the whole gang.
	And thank you to Dominic, who was bollocks.
	I think we can all agree.
	And thank you to Ben.
	You may have seen Ben wandering around.
	Assistant Ben.
	None of this could have happened without Ben.
	And he's long-suffering.
	I'm going to let you into a secret here.
	I can be a bit flaky.
	I can be a bit sketchy.
	And actually, this is one of the reasons I got Majid tonight.
	I thought... I mean, a number of reasons, but one of them is that Majid... I've listened to some of his stuff and he's really on top of your facts and stuff.
	You've done your research and shit.
	Are we starting now?
	What?
	Are we starting now?
	We're almost starting.
	We're almost starting.
	There's only... We only start... We only start in one way.
	Welcome.
	Welcome to the Deli Pod. - And I know I always say that I'm excited about this week's special guest.
	But I really am.
	You're never going to guess who I've got tonight.
	Tonight.
	Anyone want to guess?
	Now, I'm going to tell you now.
	I've got Majid Nawaz.
	Welcome.
	Pleasure.
	Welcome.
	This is such a weird experience.
	Well, I mean, everything is weird right now.
	It's been a weird couple of years.
	It's been extraordinary, hasn't it?
	I've had a weird life.
	I wanted to talk to you about your weird life.
	I was going to say, if we went back 20 years, you would have been in prison.
	What's the year?
	2022, so yeah, I would have been in prison.
	You would have been in prison, in Cairo?
	I was 24 years old in my first year in jail in Cairo, yeah.
	Yeah.
	And I would have been at home thinking, the bastard had it coming.
	Because we wouldn't have got on.
	We wouldn't have got on.
	We definitely wouldn't have got on.
	Exactly.
	But you might not have said The Bastard Had It Coming, depending on where you stood on what should happen to somebody that has views you disagree with, but doesn't break the law.
	So you may not necessarily have said The Bastard Had It Coming, based upon the song we just heard.
	I mean, you could have been the kind of person that went into a spontaneous chorus of fascist, racist, extremist.
	Yeah.
	But I suspect you would have said, I don't agree with this guy's opinion.
	Yeah.
	He has extreme opinions that I fundamentally reject, but unless he broke the law, shouldn't be in jail, and certainly shouldn't be dragged through a torture dungeon for opinions I don't agree with.
	So I think highly of you, so I suspect he probably would have had that view.
	Yeah, I think, as is...
	I think, as is sometimes my way... Don't respond to that, you fucker!
	As is sometimes my way, Matthew, I do tend sometimes to overstate my case for comical effect.
	But I was a different person then.
	I mean, maybe you were too.
	You probably were.
	But back then... Look, this would have been after the...
	The the terrorist atrocity of 9-11 it was and I was convinced that there was this war on terror that we all have to Well, I landed in Egypt one day after the 9-11 attacks and the a few months after that with a bit of a cat-and-mouse chase between Between the Egyptian security services and me being on the run Eventually was detained.
	But yes, that was literally right after 9-11 happened Not a good time to go.
	Not a good time to try and overthrow the Egyptian government.
	Yeah, exactly.
	But there was this, you mentioned the war on terror, a bit like the war on Covid and the war on drugs and the war on climate, there was this extreme politicization that was, the attacks on 9-11 were seen as an opportunity by certain people I mean, I don't think that 9-11 was planned by a guy in a cave in Afghanistan.
	who used that opportunity to try and further and advance a pre-prepared and pre-conceived of agenda that was simply waiting for such an emergency to occur.
	Oh, well, I was hoping you were going to go further down the rabbit hole because, I mean, I don't think that 9-11 was planned by a guy in a cave in Afghanistan.
	Well, it would be quite difficult to plan it from a cave considering that you had to kind of know flight paths and all of that stuff.
	But if you're asking me, which I suspect you are, as to who was behind it, all I can say is that, without getting stuck in the kind of what you find online... That's where I am.
	What would benefit us more is to look at the reactions to what happened and understand what various people did.
	In response to 9-11 and where we stand vis-a-vis those reactions.
	So, for example, 9-11 happens and we invade two countries.
	So regardless of who did it, what do we think of that?
	9-11 happened and we introduced the Terrorism Act 2000 in this country, which till this day, some of you may be aware of this, till this day it's a criminal offence to stay, to remain silent in any port of entry or exit in this country if you're detained under the Terrorism Act.
	It is legally your duty to answer the question of the interrogating officer.
	I was held under this Act in 2006 at Heathrow Airport.
	Back then, because of Tony Blair, thank you very much Tony, we weren't even allowed a lawyer.
	So we were interrogated without a lawyer and we were informed that it was a criminal offence not to answer the questions and a criminal offence to deny their powers to take my DNA.
	So the part that David Cameron changed was that you could have a lawyer present But they could still detain you and it was still a criminal offence to stay silent.
	And that's the law until today.
	And you had the same in America with the Patriot Act.
	So whether it's the invasion of countries or the stripping away of our civil liberties, this is just one or two examples of that.
	Whether it's 90 days detention without trial.
	There were people waiting in the wind to seize the opportunity that the emergency of 9-11 presented.
	I totally agree with you.
	I do.
	which we also saw through COVID as well.
	Sure.
	Yeah.
	No, I totally agree with you.
	I do.
	There was no question that 9-11...
	Happened.
	...was you...
	Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I mean, I don't want to get bogged down in this thing.
	Well, it happened.
	Something happened.
	Yeah, I personally think it was an inside job.
	A lot of people do.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Well, if you don't meet my old friends in the group I was with, they agree with you.
	Yeah.
	So do the assassins of the president of Egypt.
	A lot of these limits and jihadists believe what you just said.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Absolutely, and they're bang on.
	I can introduce you to them if you like.
	Sorry?
	Yeah, yeah, no, I'd love to.
	I'm sure they'd like you.
	I reckon they'd totally get on, because actually, the reason that I did the... The reason I chose that particular intro, not that I particularly planned it, I prefer to sort of free will, but the reason I planned that intro in the way I did, the reason I couched it in the way I did, was that...
	There were many things, I think, like a lot of people here.
	There were many things that I believed at the beginning of this century, which I no longer believe.
	And one of those things would have been that, yeah, one of the greatest threats to my civilization and my life were Muslim Islamic terrorists, that they were trying to blow me up every time I got on an airplane or on the tube, and they should all be locked up because, you know, I'd read books by people like Michael Gove.
	Michael Gove wrote a book called Yeah, he doesn't talk about this now.
	Celsius 7-7.
	Celsius 7-7.
	I've probably read books by several other neocon types, and I knew that you Muslims, you extremist Muslims, were the enemy of civilization, they were the biggest threat, and you should all be locked up, and that's why I would have thought it.
	I don't think that anymore, Martin.
	Oh, so you're a better person now?
	No, I think I'm a better informed person.
	Yeah, that's good, makes you a better person.
	Knowledge is power.
	I wanted to ask you before we move on.
	How long were you in prison for?
	Five years, I was sentenced.
	Bloody hell.
	And obviously it was generally not fun.
	Well, you know, it was an essential part of my formative experience.
	Some people take up skateboarding.
	I did that too.
	Some people take up drawing.
	I kind of took up overthrowing governments, I suppose.
	I mean, OK, so take me through it.
	The food was really shit?
	Yeah, it had stones in it, and worms, and... But it's fine, guys.
	I mean, you know, you're in a desert, you're a revolutionary, and you're basically 24.
	You can survive.
	OK, so the food was horrible, it had stones in it.
	What was the mosquito situation?
	Oh, I hate mosquitoes.
	So the worst of the mosquitoes.
	This is actually, without you realising it, you've stumbled upon something here, right?
	Mosquitoes like... It's my skill.
	They like my blood, right?
	And that's probably because it's got... I eat a lot of... I don't know, salt or whatever, but they like eating me.
	So luckily for me...
	The prison bars had a mesh covering them, so the mesquite, as long as it didn't get in in the first place, I was locked away from them, because they had to get through the mesh, through the bars.
	Now the problem is, if one gets in, then you're stuck with it for the whole night, and you're worried about sleeping, because the thing's going to feast on you when you're asleep.
	So, as a result, I've got this little thing now, where if there's a fly in the room, I need to get it out of the room.
	I have to open... My wife knows this.
	She's over there.
	I have to open the doors and make sure the fly gets out of the room, because I don't like flies in the room, because I've had to be locked up with them in a cell.
	It's a not pleasant experience, because you can't open the window and get rid of them, you know?
	No.
	And the thing is, there are types of flies that are house flies, like mosquitoes, and the big ones, They're house flies, but they're aggressive.
	You know how they've got aggressive foxes in London, yeah?
	So if you're in Egypt in a prison, the fly does that, it gets urbanized, right?
	So like the fox is urbanized today, right?
	And it's not scared of humans anymore, like a pigeon.
	You know the pigeons?
	They don't run from you anymore, they run towards you, right?
	These flies would do kamikaze missions onto your body, and they're not even mosquitoes.
	They're just hungry, rabid flies in the desert.
	Biting flies.
	And they bite you.
	And they're just a housefly, but they bite you and it hurts.
	Yeah, yeah.
	The mosquito doesn't hurt because it injects poison into your system, which is what the itching is.
	The itching is an allergic reaction to the mosquito bite.
	But the fly doesn't have that through evolution.
	It hasn't developed that.
	So it just bites you.
	Yeah, yeah, okay.
	So, evil bastard biting flies.
	But spiders, spiders were my friend.
	Because you have to love the spider, because when there's a fly in that cell, the spider is the only one that's going to catch that fly and eat it.
	Because is the cell too high?
	Yeah, yeah, so you learn to love the spider.
	So whenever I'd see a spider, I used to like...
	A spider in my cell meant the equivalent of a cat in a room where there's a mouse.
	That spider is going to catch that fly.
	So you become friends with a spider.
	So you were like Robert the Bruce, in fact, with your spider.
	Sorry, I am obsessed with insects.
	Sorry to pursue this one, but were they big spiders?
	Well, they were, I mean, yes, sometimes they were desert spiders.
	Yeah, I've seen those.
	Quite large.
	There's a story of the Prophet Muhammad being saved by a spider.
	So there's this very long traditional relationship between Muslims and spiders.
	We actually look upon spiders as quite good beings.
	They actually, there's a story where once the Every prophet's rejected from their hometown, right?
	That's a parable, right?
	So the Prophet Muhammad had been rejected from his hometown, and he's fleeing, and people are trying to chase him, hunt him down and kill him, and he went in this cave, and the cave was clear, he went in, but after he went in, the spider... It's a story, right?
	The spider spun a web over the entrance of the cave, so then those that were chasing him, by the time they arrived at the cave, the web had already been spun, And they decided nobody could possibly be in that cave because the spider's web would be broken otherwise.
	So then they left him alone and that's how he survived.
	So we've got a good relationship with spiders.
	Good.
	So they had your back.
	That's good.
	This may seem like this is completely random and I don't know what I'm doing here, but actually I'm being...
	No, no.
	Don't laugh.
	I actually... Is this broadcast on your podcast?
	I was working my way... Does this go out on your podcast?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, it's your loss then, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	It's going... OK.
	So, I'm actually working up to a serious point.
	Yeah.
	When you went... OK, so you had horrible food.
	What were you sleeping on?
	Well, when we first got there, it was just a concrete floor.
	I used my shoes as a pillow.
	And we had no lights and no bedding and no toilet and we would have to basically relieve ourselves on the floor.
	We had 15 minutes where we were let out and then they would wash the floor down with a bucket and put us back into solitary confinement.
	So we were locked up for 23 hours and 43 minutes every day.
	That lasted for about until the fourth month.
	And then we were charged.
	Once we were charged, Amnesty adopted us as prisoners of conscience, because the charge was in Arabic, which means, quite literally translated, and I have a degree in Arabic.
	It's an accurate translation, I promise you.
	It means, propagation by speech and writing for a non-permitted organisation.
	So that was the charge, which is why Amnesty decided, hold on a minute, this is a bit wrong.
	So they adopted us as prisoners of conscience.
	Once we were charged, though, we were let out of solitary confinement.
	Then we were given a bit of bedding, a pillow, and a change of clothes, and access to the toilet.
	Yeah.
	That must have been like winning the golden ticket.
	We'll try and holding it for four months.
	Yeah.
	See how that works out.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Because I'm thinking that, OK, it's not It's not quite like the prep school I went to in the 1970s.
	But those of us who went to English prep schools in the 1970s will know that you're set up for life.
	If you get put in prison, you know, you get sent to cold bits, you can handle it.
	And what I was thinking of is that maybe despite all that horribleness, I mean, you know, you had a chunk of your youth taken away from you.
	But it must have strengthened you in some way.
	Did it make you a better person?
	I hope so.
	I mean, I'm here, right?
	I hope so.
	The thing is, a lot of people that went through that became terrorists.
	And when I say went through, I don't mean sleeping on a concrete floor.
	That was the least of it.
	If you're going to torture someone on their genitals, and if you're going to torture someone on their teeth, and if you're going to torture someone's child in front of their parents, then that's going to turn them... I believe it's mental illness.
	It's going to turn them into a monster, but not because they're monsters.
	But because they've just had to watch their 14-year-old boy tortured on the genitals in front of them to force them to answer.
	Now, if that happened to any one of us, you'd be forgiven for becoming a bit mad.
	And when you're a bit mad, you do things out of anger and revenge.
	Now, in the courts, when it comes to wives and husbands, we call this a crime of passion.
	But you do that in the context of political instability and you create terrorists.
	And so that's what, you know, unfortunately, a lot of people The one guy that they tortured in front of me, he was also a British citizen.
	He never left the group the way I did, and remained not only just committed to the ideology that I subsequently disavowed, but also became even more extreme.
	in his belief that all of the West is evil.
	And one of the key things here is you mentioned earlier about 9-11 and terrorism and the narrative you were sold.
	I'm really actually thankful that you kicked off with that.
	And I want to thank you for that because it takes, I think, some intellectual courage to say to an audience, a crowd this large, and by the way, well done.
	It's a really, really... I don't know if the audience can see it, but it's an amazing turnout.
	Thank you to all of you.
	Thank you.
	is it takes intellectual courage to accept that you've been peddled a lie for most of your life about one of the most important significant wars that we were sold, the war on terror.
	Yeah.
	Yeah?
	Yeah.
	And there are people that, as a result of knowing that it was a lie like we knew, that this was being used to attack us wrongly, We, in those days, Muslims, right?
	We knew this was being used to attack us, invade countries, and generally torture us, as an excuse, to try and get other things out of us, as opposed to who did 9-11.
	I was never asked who did 9-11.
	It was never the question that was put to me.
	It was, why do you hate the Egyptian government?
	Now, the Egyptian government is and was the second largest recipient of American aid after Israel.
	It remains the case.
	At the time, the dictator's name was Hosni Mubarak.
	He was there because he'd instituted an emergency law that he brought in place in 1981 after my cellmates assassinated the president before him, Anwar Sadat.
	Now, obviously, that's an emergency.
	When you assassinate a president, that's an emergency.
	But that emergency lasted by the time I was in jail, for 25 years.
	And then it carried on after I was in jail.
	So by the time they put me in prison, the state of emergency that was temporary had existed for 25 years.
	It existed beyond that until... So I was in prison in 2002.
	It existed until the Arab Spring, right?
	And then Hosni Mubarak was overthrown.
	Then they had about a year or two of democracy.
	We didn't get... The party that came in power was a party that probably many people in this crowd wouldn't relate to culturally.
	They called the Muslim Brotherhood.
	But they got elected in.
	I did a BBC hard talk at the time with Stephen Sacker, who tried to criticise me for criticising the Egyptian government led by the Muslim Brotherhood because I don't believe that they had the right policies.
	Let's call them a political Islamist organisation, but if you're looking for a term, to describe them with, though these terms are loaded, right?
	So I was critical of their governing style.
	And so he took the view, as most establishment liberals do and did, that Islamism is the answer to everything, and it should be encouraged.
	So he asked me why I don't recognize a democratically elected government.
	And I said to him, no, no, sorry, you got it wrong.
	I do recognize the government of Egypt under the Muslim Brotherhood because they were democratically elected.
	But just like Bush was, you criticise Bush when he invaded Iraq even though he's the legitimate President of America, I can criticise them.
	They were elected, yes, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.
	Now, here's the thing people miss.
	That government that I criticised, and it's even on Hard Talk, you can watch it today, it's online, that government, it was democratically elected, was then overthrown again by yet another military dictator who had served under Mubarak, his name's General Sisi, and he's in power till today, and Egypt still remains the second largest recipient of American aid after Israel.
	So you look at it from the Egyptians' perspective, and they're sitting there wondering whether there is limits or not, they're just sitting there wondering, Why don't you want us to be a democracy?
	That's basically their question.
	It's why I'm thanking you, because when they look at the war on terror through that lens, what they see is a tyranny using an emergency as an excuse to keep an emergency law in place for over two decades so that they can't have self-determination.
	Now, we should know what that feels like after the emergency law during COVID was brought in.
	That's what they're feeling for over 25 years.
	Over 25 years.
	And we had to deal with that for two years, and look how angry we are.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Yeah?
	Which brings me to my money shot question.
	Go for it.
	Which is, okay, so I was in an English prep school, you were in prison.
	But... My condolences.
	There's a lot of questions, one of the most commonly asked questions by people like ourselves.
	is why do we understand the shit that's going on when so many people don't?
	And I'm wondering what it was about your upbringing, I mean, was it the prison experience?
	Because, look, there are so few people With a mainstream media background in the past, at least.
	I mean, you were an LBC presenter, which is mainstream media, I guess.
	And I was, you know, I mean, telegraph, spectator, all that stuff.
	But almost nobody in our trade has spoken up honestly about the myriad things that are going wrong with the world right now.
	What do you think it is about you that you're not afraid to speak out?
	Well, I don't want to generalize, right?
	It's easier to unplug from the system and look at it from the outside if you've already done that before.
	It's like anything, right?
	Your first time riding a bike is scary and then you ride a bike again and it's easier and it gets easier and then you never forget it.
	So anybody that's already stepped outside the system and looked at it analytically And it's a lot easier to then see what's going on if you're looking at it from a bird's eye perspective.
	It's psychologically a lot less intimidating to then have to do that again when the COVID thing kicked off.
	Yeah.
	So if you look to before I was imprisoned, actually a long time before that when I was 15 years old in Southend where I was born, and the sort of thing that we had to confront with attacks by police, attacks by skinhead racists, neo-Nazi racists, I'm talking machete attacks and hammer attacks, and before I hit the age of 16 I had to watch More of my friends stabbed before my eyes than most people do in a lifetime.
	Yeah.
	And they were boasting of relations in the police.
	This was before the murder of Stephen Lawrence.
	It's what I call the bad old days of racism in this country, because I don't like people that talk as if it's just as bad today.
	Things have improved drastically.
	But in those days, in particular, for us in Southend, it was quite hard.
	Why I mention this is because I've also, at the age of 15, been arrested at gunpoint by Essex police for suspicion of armed robbery.
	And the reason for that is my brother, who was 16 at the time, was playing with a plastic gun in the park, and we were all messing around, and, you know, it's hard to think of now, because you might think, why, if you're a Muslim, are you playing with a plastic gun in the park?
	Basically, you had to look Irish to be considered a terrorist in those days, right?
	It wasn't about Muslims, yeah?
	We're on the hippie trail.
	Everyone wanted to come to Pakistan to go to Afghanistan on the Khyber Pass because Cat Stevens did that, right?
	So everyone was happy with us, right?
	Basically, this wasn't about terrorism.
	There was nothing to do with terrorism, Muslim terrorism, in those days.
	This was somebody that saw him and decided that he's 16, he's carrying this plastic gun in a park, playing with his friends, he must be about to rob a bank.
	So they reported him, and then the police... This is a true story, it's really surreal.
	The police mounted a day-long surveillance operation, By the time 2 a.m.
	came, I was in my friend's car.
	His name's Ron.
	I was with my brother.
	And we were coming back from a snooker hall.
	He was driving me.
	I wasn't old enough to drive.
	And the police helicopter shone a spotlight on our car from above.
	They blocked off the roads.
	They arrested us with machine guns.
	And they threw us in a cell.
	They realized by the very next day the whole thing was a big fat mistake.
	But when you have those sorts of experiences, you already grow up kind of on the other side of the system.
	And I was in a comprehensive school that was shut down and put under special measures after I left it.
	I wasn't in a prep school.
	So you've already kind of got a relationship with the system that is antagonistic.
	It's very easy to unplug from that, which is what I did when I joined the Islamist group that I joined.
	So, as I say, when you've unplugged once already... Unplugging is a reference to The Matrix, by the way.
	For those of you that didn't get that... It's a film.
	It's a popular film.
	It's easy to unplug again, yeah?
	So that's an explanation I can offer.
	I mean, beyond that, I'm not going to blow my own trumpet.
	So I suppose the only other thing I'll say is, it's really important for people that do think they've taken a red pill, right?
	It's really, really important not to look down on those that you're trying to talk to about these sorts of topics.
	Because... They hate it.
	Have you ever seen those t-shirts that say, Choose Love?
	The other t-shirts that say choose love or the slogan generally, you must have seen it, right?
	Now, this is actually more profound than it first appears.
	A bit like Lawrence's t-shirt that said, I identify as vaccinated, right?
	There's obviously a message there.
	So, when you're in a position where you can look at things from a 360 perspective, you're not the only one in that position.
	So are the people that you're disagreeing with, who are fighting you.
	They also are able to see what you see.
	They choose to do evil with it.
	That's the difference.
	So do you think the people running Pfizer or the people invading Iraq don't know that they're making shit up to convince you to allow them to introduce more authoritarian powers?
	Think Tony Blair.
	He's sitting there every time an emergency happens.
	He's trying to peddle his identity cards.
	He's waiting for the next opportunity, right?
	They know what they're doing.
	So there's two types of people that understand what's going on.
	Those that are basically the architects of attempting to screw over the rest of us, and those who are trying to stop them.
	So what are we fighting over?
	We're fighting over everybody else that doesn't see it.
	When you look at it that way, it makes no sense to hate on these people.
	You're fighting for them.
	Why are you fighting for them if you hate them?
	If you hate them, stop fighting for them.
	Go and buy an island somewhere and live like Jeffrey Epstein did.
	But actually...
	If you love these people, and it's about love, we're fighting for them.
	So we shouldn't look down on them, disdain with disdain, or be arrogant in the sense that they're sheep and stupid, they don't understand.
	Because actually, truthfully, otherwise we might as well just give up, pack our bags and go home.
	That's who we're fighting for.
	We've got to show them love.
	That's what it means to choose love, because you don't have to in that position.
	You can get rich, you can make money, you can join those psychopaths.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So we choose that, right?
	We choose the path we're on for a reason.
	Now some of us it's because we believe in God.
	Some of us it's because we believe in humanity.
	Some of us it's because we believe in a higher power or an eternal energy and we believe we want to... Whatever the reasons are, we consciously choose the path we're on and it's hard, it's not easy and it comes with difficulties and it comes with people shaming you, insulting you and mocking you but that's why we're doing it.
	We're trying to help people.
	Yeah, totally.
	Yeah, no, I... Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's... It is tempting... Yeah, it is.
	..sometimes... Of course it is.
	..to look at the normies and... Yeah, yeah.
	Because they give us such shit, don't they?
	I mean, that's basic.
	But I totally agree with you, because some of these people are our families and loved ones, for goodness sake.
	Yeah.
	And we don't want to alienate them.
	We love them.
	Yeah.
	And also...
	Look at me 20 years ago.
	I was one of them.
	I mean, you know, there were people sort of saying, what about building 7?
	What?
	I don't know.
	What about the moon landing?
	It's back on 9-11.
	Yeah, the Van Allen Belt.
	Come on.
	I mean, everyone knows that Neil Armstrong was the first man on the moon, because he made a speech about it.
	You know, one giant... He wouldn't have said that, would he?
	I mean, if he hadn't done it.
	So, no, I totally get.
	Well, I mean, to give a last analogy on this, right?
	You said normies.
	It's a very non-pejorative way to describe it.
	As is the word muggles in Harry Potter, yeah?
	So for those of you who are of the younger generation, just think of that.
	Like, there are good muggles in Harry Potter that don't have magical powers, and Harry was one of them.
	And if you... I've read the books in prison, so I know the story.
	That's true.
	So, if you look at how Harry Potter got the scar on his forehead, it's because Voldemort attacked him when he was young, yeah?
	And people say, how did you... People say, in the book, people say, how did he survive the attack from Voldemort?
	If you remember that, who's read the books?
	Anyone read the books?
	I have.
	You remember that part where they say to Harry, well, you survived because of love?
	Remember that?
	Yeah, your parents embraced you and that love sheltered you and protected you from Voldemort's strike.
	And all it left was a scar, but it was love that saved him.
	And he was a muggle, a normie.
	So it's really important, I think it's so important that we understand why you, me, everyone here, why we do what we do.
	It's so easy to become...
	Despairing, start looking down on people that don't listen to us.
	It's so easy.
	And by the way, another film analogy.
	That was a bookend film, but this is a film analogy.
	Just think to Star Wars and when it's all about the Force, it's so easy to allow that feeling of despair to turn into hate.
	And then you're becoming the very thing you're trying to stop.
	Yeah.
	No, I agree.
	Only love will defeat these.
	Because they are evil.
	In a moment, I'm going to ask you what you think is going on.
	I mean, I have a pretty good idea.
	Maybe you do too.
	And I don't want to blow smoke up our own arses, but I'll tell you...
	People sometimes say to me, oh, you're so brave, how can you do it?
	Actually, you know, look, I ride to hounds, that's brave.
	Saying shit on podcasts is, you know, it's easy.
	But the reason I find it easy, the reason I'm not afraid, is because I believe in God, and for me, For me, God is truth and beauty and goodness.
	And I think that we humans are naturally drawn to those things.
	I find it an easy path to go towards the light.
	And truth is really important.
	I think we all agree on this, don't we?
	Life is so much easier when you tell the truth.
	Oh, what a tangle when first we practice to deceive.
	I mean, it's a given that life... I think I may have mentioned this before, that when I was a child, I used to think that everyone could see inside my head and read my thoughts.
	So there was no point lying.
	So I've always been a really shit liar.
	I've always found it easier to tell the truth.
	So I had that advantage.
	That's the concept of God, right?
	I wanted to ask you about this.
	I mean, you're a Muslim, yeah?
	Yeah.
	Is it the same deal with you?
	Well, first of all, it's Eid on Monday, so Eid Mubarak to Muslims in the audience.
	I know there are some here.
	Happy Eid.
	But yes, in answer to your question, I think that that idea that somebody's reading your thoughts is one of the... Some people might think it can lead to pathologies.
	It might lead to pathologies, but it can also be one of the key elements of training a child to become self-aware and self-critical, because you have to constantly... You're thinking, right, I'm feeling this, but, oh, is that a good feeling?
	But you wouldn't care if you weren't worried about somebody watching that feeling as a child.
	So let me put it this way.
	If I'm talking to, and it's, you know, these things are flexible, adaptable for who you're speaking to, horses for courses, right?
	If I'm talking to somebody who is, say, I don't know, that I met, say in a context where that person is doing yoga and they're into kind of new age spirituality, you want to talk about life force and power behind life, right?
	To get them to kind of see what you're talking about when it comes to aspiring to something higher and bigger than the human being.
	But if you're talking to a child, that might be a bit too complex.
	I find that the quickest shortcut with a child to get them to start developing critical thinking is to say, look, dad and mom might not see you, but God's going to see you.
	And do you really want to have to, you know, justify your bad behavior?
	If I'm not there and God's watching you?
	So it really helps the child to develop self-critical, kind of a self-critical mindset, you know?
	I think that's really, really beneficial.
	And it's, it's, I'm not surprised that you're religious, by the way, or faithful, whichever word you want to use.
	Because also you can, you end up in a situation where somebody that has a genuine relationship with some form of spirituality, they do tend, tend, not in every case, to try Because you're aspiring to something bigger and better than you.
	It doesn't matter if it's real.
	What matters is that you accept that and that that's your aspiration.
	It leads to this constant desire for self-improvement.
	That's in my experience anyway.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And I've noticed this a lot, that on the marches, for example, you've got kind of these lovely fluttery banners of the Virgin Mary.
	A lot of people I have conversations with are much more open now than ten years ago.
	I would have died rather than sort of talked about something like Christianity.
	I thought people that did so would, you know, like, ooh, it's like they're so square, daddy-o.
	Well, we've never had that problem.
	Right, yes.
	Probably the other way, to be honest.
	A lot of Muslims wear their religion on their sleeves, so it's probably the opposite direction.
	But it is, I think, I notice what you're saying, there is a bit of an awakening when it comes to our relationship with spirituality and with faith, and I think it's a really good thing.
	Because the alternative, I had this conversation with Jan Jekielek on the American Thought Leader podcast, The alternative, and we studied this because from our Islamist background, we studied a lot of communist ideology because at the time, the Soviets had invaded Afghanistan.
	My family's from Pakistan and there was a war going on.
	The Islamists that we were part of were attempting to expel the Soviets from Afghanistan because of their occupation of Afghanistan.
	That country, sadly, has been in constant war and conflict for over 40 years, which is most of our lives, right?
	Most of my life, I don't know.
	I'm not that much older than you.
	So we grew up really, really having kind of an understanding of what communism, intellectually, what communism was.
	And we used to teach it.
	As Islamists, we'd sit there in Pakistan, in various cities.
	I'd sit there with 10, 20 people around me, talking to them about the intellectual flaws and dangers of communism.
	I was 21 years old.
	So this has been ingrained in us this generation from early on.
	And the reason I mention communism is because on the one end, We talked about faith.
	On the other, absent that, what tends to happen is the state fills the void and wants to become God or the higher power.
	So why do communist powers, governments, regimes, why do they have such a problem with religion?
	Whether you look at China and their treatment of the Falun Gong, their treatment of Christians and their treatment of Uyghur Muslims, or you look to the Soviet Union and the treatment of the Chechens.
	I've got a lot of time for Chechens, by the way, because like the Afghans and like the Christians in China and the Falun Gong and Uyghur Muslims in China, the Chechens had to suffer that before all of this under Stalin.
	He purged a lot of them.
	And they suffered really, really harshly under communist rule because they're traditional Muslims.
	And they're actually traditional Sufi Muslims.
	So communist regimes always had a problem.
	And we know how they treated, how the Soviet Union treated the Russian church.
	They always had a problem with religion.
	And I think one of the main reasons for that is because what religion does in communist regimes is it provides an alternative moral hierarchy That doesn't require the state for its moral reasoning.
	That exists outside of the state.
	And the state sees that as threatening because if you have an alternative moral hierarchy, whether you stick to it or not, the fact you believe in it is what, for the state, matters.
	Because then when they come along and try and sell you theirs, again, it's not about behaviour at this stage, it's about belief.
	If they try and sell you that they have the ability to determine morality based upon materialist doctrine and the needs and the time that the people require in that need, in that time, yeah?
	They're gonna find, the state is gonna find, a fierce resistance to the idea that materialism defines morality, mainly from religious communities.
	So they have a big problem with that.
	And I think one of the key antidotes against increasing authoritarianism and state power, I believe in a small government, I'm not, I don't want big government, right?
	One of the key antidotes to this, and it's a problem here for us in Britain, even though we don't have communism, it's a problem in America, Biden has just appointed A disinformation czar under the Department for Homeland Security.
	That's the department that's responsible for catching terrorists.
	And now they've got a disinformation czar.
	Somebody, by the way, that reminds me a lot of Professor Umbridge in the Harry Potter books, but that's another story.
	But if you end up in that situation where you've got a state that's deciding that they can decide what true and false is, which is what this disinformation czar is, They get to decide what's good for you and bad for you.
	And then if you try and challenge it, it's called disinformation.
	If you notice, if you remember in Canada, when there was the pastor that was repeatedly arrested.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It was, and if you look to I don't even need to go much further.
	Look to the reaction of mosques and Muslim communities in Britain.
	They've tended, generally, if you look to ethnic minority stats, to be sceptical of vaccine mandates and all that stuff.
	So the religious communities began pushing back because they're used to questioning state authority because they have a higher authority that they're accountable.
	That's what large states don't like.
	It's why communism wants to destroy religion.
	And it's why I believe it's a great thing to keep faith alive.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Did you rediscover your faith, or have you always?
	Yes, no, I... What happened?
	What was it?
	So, OK, so I went to... I had a traditional English private school education, you know, like...
	We have to go to chapel seven days a week, twice on Sundays.
	Do you notice how they put their heads down and smirk whenever they say that?
	It was mainly because, like, you know... Don't be embarrassed.
	Not everyone had this education.
	That's fine.
	Be proud of yourself.
	Some of us did.
	Anyway.
	And, you know, I got confirmed because I wanted my godfather to give me a nice present.
	You know, all the usual reasons that you get confirmed.
	I think I had a... I did.
	I know I did.
	I had a gold Saint Christopher around my neck, you know, because I kind of like the idea of gold.
	I wouldn't do that now.
	And, yeah, I was a sort of... I was a... What's it called?
	Not a social Christian.
	What are they called?
	Cultural?
	Cultural Christian, yeah.
	You went to church at Christmas and at Easter, and then...
	I had this sort of awakening, and part of my awakening was to do with... I mean, lots of people... Everyone has a different route down the rabbit hole, and once you begin your journey, it becomes a cascade of understanding and knowledge.
	In my case, just very briefly, because some people know this already, I sort of first realized that the world was not as it has been sold to us.
	I mean, really not as sold to us.
	Over the Trump-Biden election.
	I just saw skullduggery on such an epic scale.
	2020 election.
	And all the institutions which we'd been told, all the checks and balances which made America the land of the free and the envy of the world.
	The Supreme Court.
	When I discovered that the head of the Supreme Court was a regular on Epstein Island, when I realised that the courts were not going to solve any of these electoral fraud issues, I suddenly thought, hang on a second, we are much more fucked than I realised.
	I mean, we are so fucked, in fact, that I think a lot of us go through this stage, you go through the black pill stage, where you think, that's it, it's over.
	And then suddenly you think, hang on a second, What about God?
	Maybe it's all part of the plan.
	Well, you're right to point out these hypocrisies because I remember I was vocal during that period in the election and was lambasted quite heavily for it, even though I continued on air to host people like Sahar Abamri from the New York Post that had published the story of Hunter Biden's laptop that media began to censor, which has since been verified, right?
	The New York Times has verified it.
	My mother-in-law knows this.
	One of the things that really annoy me the most, insult me to my core, is that you can go... I'm not... By the way, as I said on Rogan, I'm not left or right.
	I'm not Trump or Biden.
	I just like the truth.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Totally.
	So... We didn't hear the end of that hot mic moment when Trump was on the mic saying, grab them by the...
	Right?
	We didn't hear the end of that.
	It just played on and on.
	He must be a rapist.
	He must be this.
	He must be... Because he boasted about grabbing women by their parts.
	Now the thing is... Right.
	Fine.
	Whatever you think of that.
	But tell me this, guys.
	You compare that... Everyone remembers what that was about, right?
	Yeah?
	The hot mic with Trump.
	Grab women by their... I'm sorry.
	I don't want to repeat the word.
	It's a bit crude.
	But you remember that moment, right?
	Now think about this.
	That's about Trump.
	That's bad.
	Let's say it's bad.
	I mean, on a scale of 1 to 10, put a number on it in your heads, and just whatever.
	You don't have to tell anyone, but however bad you think that is, between 1 to 10, put a number on it.
	And now I want you to put a number on this one, which you probably haven't heard people kick up a stink or fuss about.
	Bill Clinton was on Jeffrey Epstein's private jet 26 times.
	On five of those occasions, On five of those occasions, he ditched his security.
	Yeah?
	So, in other words, there was nobody other than him and Epstein's people.
	On five of those, but the total occasions, 26.
	Yeah?
	Now, I don't know, put a number on that one in terms of bad.
	Between 1 to 10, yeah?
	I mean, for me, that breaks the scale.
	So when you start realising, this is what I'm saying, I'm not Trump, Clinton, I said as I said on Rogan's show, I wanted to burn the whole system down.
	So it doesn't make any sense accusing me of being pro-Trump.
	I didn't even believe in democracy, right?
	So I'm coming at this from the outside and looking at this and saying, I left one form of intellectual tyranny, even though we didn't have power.
	So our form of intellectual tyranny compared to this was benign.
	We didn't have power.
	We didn't have a caliphate.
	We didn't have anything.
	We were from formerly colonized countries and prisons and dungeons, basically shouting our mouths off because we were angry.
	But compare that to people that actually have power and actually influence world events, right?
	And you got this man on Epstein's jet 26 times, and he's still walking around as if he's like, you know, and his wife is still trying to run for office constantly.
	And you just think, where's the justice in any of this?
	Right?
	You know?
	You can...
	You can take my DNA at Heathrow Airport.
	Because I said something people didn't like, and Amnesty will tell you that means he was a prisoner of conscience.
	But you can take my DNA, you can interrogate me without a lawyer present, after I've just been put in jail for five years, but Bill Clinton, do you think that's going to happen to him when he comes into this country?
	And the other thing that really, really, really winds me up, we're talking about truth and awakening, yeah?
	These are just truth bombs.
	There's no way around this.
	These are just facts, ladies and gentlemen.
	There's nothing... I'm not making... These are just documented facts that people are choosing to ignore, yeah?
	Ghislaine Maxwell's trial just happened.
	Now, the thing is, I know more about Johnny Depp and Amber Heard than I know...
	I know that Amber Heard defecated in Johnny Depp's bed.
	I know that Johnny Depp is an alcoholic probably, right?
	And he would drink too much, probably to drown his sorrows.
	I know everything I need to know and more about that case.
	Where are the names of the people that Ghislaine Maxwell basically procured underage children for?
	Where are the in-court videos?
	Where are the photographs?
	Where are all the files?
	Where's the evidence?
	Where are all the films and the photographs and thousands and thousands of hard drives and digital images of people?
	We don't know one name.
	We don't know one name from those people.
	The only name we know is the man that somehow the cameras got turned off and he killed himself in prison.
	You know?
	He's no longer with us.
	The Bill Clinton can be on that plane 26 times, and Donald Trump gets caught on a hot mic, and he's the epitome of evil.
	It doesn't make sense to me.
	Sorry.
	It just doesn't make sense.
	Yeah, I agree totally.
	Do you know, when I knew that this was going to be a really good chat, Was, when you emailed me, or yeah, you sent me a message, and you said, can we talk about this?
	And the thing you wanted to talk about was, I think it's the most important story in the world right now.
	The...
	Food processing plants and agricultural storage facilities, etc., etc., which are being systematically destroyed in a way that is too numerous to be coincidental.
	I mean, to be accidental.
	Yeah.
	So, I have a... What I sent James was a Substack article that I wrote.
	So, after they got rid of me, I was mysteriously let go of.
	From LBC.
	It's funny, actually.
	I'm known to be double-jabbed.
	I announced that I would no longer take any vaccine when it comes to COVID when they announced the booster shot.
	I think we're on our fourth now, aren't we?
	Anyway, it was fifth, right?
	The third one was the one that I announced on air that I wouldn't take and explained why.
	I'm not going to go over those arguments.
	I explained why I wouldn't take it.
	Some people didn't like the fact that I wouldn't get a third vaccine.
	And attack me publicly for it.
	So when I got let go of, I started a substack as a way to try and survive, provide for my family after I was let go of for not taking a third injection.
	So, as surreal as that sounds, in that substack is the PC that you refer to, which brings me nicely to food shortages.
	So, I've since written a follow-up on a different subject, but this was the most recent one, it's the one before.
	Unfortunately, what I think we're about to experience is a global famine.
	And supply chains have been disrupted.
	And when we look at the causes for this, Tucker Carlson picked up on this.
	In America, most of the fires or attacks on food processing plants involve either a plane crashing into them.
	I don't know, when does that happen?
	It's a bit weird, right?
	Or explosions.
	Explosions at turkey processing plants or whatever.
	It's just a bit strange.
	There are multiple plants.
	You can look up... I posted actually a map of all of them that blew up and separately a list of all their names and which cities they're in.
	And it's all a bit weird.
	These food processing plants are being, for some reason, either naturally... We were kids in school.
	We used to read up about spontaneous human combustion, yeah?
	Remember that?
	So these food processing plants are spontaneously combusting, and no one knows why.
	It's one of those books that's going to be written about human beings being found as charred corpses, and it's the ghosts that did it.
	These plants are burning.
	Now, that's America.
	That's causing a bit of a problem, but that's not the only problem.
	Add to that, you've got a resurgence of bird flu.
	So millions and millions of chickens and turkeys have been killed in America.
	They've been culled and put down because of bird flu.
	Now that's causing, that's exacerbating the supply problem.
	Add to that China with its lockdown.
	You've got this draconian lockdown that's lasted over four weeks in Shanghai, moving to Beijing soon.
	Now if you look at the ports in China, you look at an aerial map of the shipping containers, the backlog is going to take Many months, if not years, to clear.
	And there's a lot of... There are consumer goods in those containers that are not going to reach us.
	So there's another problem, which is going to cause empty shelves.
	Add to that the war in Ukraine, and most of the world's grain comes from either Ukraine or Russia.
	It's actually really interesting.
	Most of the world's grain comes from those two countries.
	And when I say grain, I mean like basic stuff we need to eat.
	Add to that fertilizer, without which you can't grow the grain and anything else.
	Most of the world's fertilizer, around 100% if you add the key ingredients you need to make fertilizer, comes from Russia.
	So there's an acute fertilizer problem.
	There's an acute grain problem that's basically here already.
	And then with the food processing plants in America spontaneously combusting, there's a problem here.
	That's going to cause a global famine.
	And what's interesting is it's already started in East Africa, in Somalia.
	In fact, the Times has already run a piece on this in Somalia when it comes to hunger and food shortages.
	Egypt is heavily, heavily reliant on Ukrainian grain.
	85% of Egyptian bread relies on Ukraine.
	85%.
	And now, when I say bread, I actually mean bread.
	But that means more to Egyptians than it does here.
	If I say bread to you, you might think I eat pasta.
	I eat rice.
	I don't eat carbs.
	Yeah?
	Keto diet, man.
	But actually, in Egypt, all they eat is bread.
	It's their staple.
	Some countries in the developing world still have a staple diet.
	Remember that term, yeah?
	So, it's like staple in Bangladesh is rice.
	And the whole purpose of that term is, it's what it used to be with the potatoes in Ireland, it's literally what people are subsisting on.
	In Egypt, they subsist on bread, and 85% of that comes from Ukraine, in terms of the grains needed.
	So, you're going to have a, what I believe, is we're going to end up when this famine really starts to hit, it's already here, when it really starts to bite.
	We're going to end up in a situation, not just of hunger, but of serious political instability around the world.
	The Arab Spring kicked off because people were hungry.
	They were hungry.
	And they were unemployed.
	1848 is a year that Europe faced consecutive upheaval, revolution, uprising, whatever word you want to use, from country to country.
	Historically, generally, historians believe 1848 as a year failed for those revolutions.
	Nevertheless, there were multiple revolutions in Europe in 1848.
	I take the view that we're in that moment again, and I believe, if I'm going to do a bit of forecasting, that we're going to have multiple uprisings across the world There's going to cause some serious political instability as this year progresses.
	And a lot of those countries are people currently under American State Department client regimes.
	And those client regimes, such as the Egyptian regime, are going to find it very difficult to survive as these uprisings occur.
	Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan, Where Imran Khan, the former PM, was just ousted.
	He's just been ousted and he's made a public accusation of a Biden admin-led regime change operation in Pakistan because he visited Putin.
	He's saying this stuff publicly.
	He's now organizing huge rallies.
	I'm talking thousands and thousands.
	Biggest rallies.
	I know Pakistan really well.
	Biggest rallies I've ever seen in Pakistan.
	He's organizing them because he's basically saying the people aren't going to take this.
	So there'll be a bit of a people's uprising in Pakistan.
	That's already happening.
	There'll be, I think, militant violence in East Africa and the Horn of Africa.
	Because those countries already don't have the rule of law, so where you're unhappy in those sorts of setups, you pick a gun up.
	Whereas in Pakistan, you've got a bit of a system, you can still vote and stuff, so that's probably going to be a bit of a colour revolution in Pakistan.
	But in East Africa, Somalia, Horn of Africa, there's going to be a lot of violence.
	And in Egypt and Iraq, you're going to see a repeat of what happened in the Arab Spring.
	Now again, none of this might happen, but generally when there's a famine, that's what tends to happen.
	Sure.
	But it's not just in those countries, is it?
	It's here as well.
	That's right.
	You think about the government is now bribing farmers to sell up their land, meanwhile Productive agricultural land is being converted for solar energy.
	That's going to work, isn't it?
	For wind turbines, which I know that livestock can't stand being under.
	We've then got this nonsense about rewilding, which again is rendering our agricultural country, turning it into a kind of Why?
	Because they want you to, as we know this, this isn't conspiracy, it's written on the WF website.
	I put this in the article you're talking about.
	They want you to eat bugs and synthetic lab-grown meat.
	Right?
	Because they have the patents.
	On that meat.
	Bill Gates had patents and investments in vaccine companies.
	He has patents, and others do as well, in this synthetic meat that they're growing in labs.
	They want to basically sell that as the alternative to natural, organic, agricultural produce.
	Because you can't patent nature.
	If everything's fake, you can own it.
	Right?
	So you can't patent herbal medicine, but you can patent Synthetic pharmaceuticals.
	So, whatever cures exist out there in nature, speak to my dad about that, he'll tell you some stuff about herbal doctors.
	Whatever in Pakistan, his herbal doctor got assassinated, but that's another story.
	He'll tell you he was cured with TB by a herbal doctor.
	My father-in-law was at the dinner table, who's a heart surgeon.
	He's one of the top heart surgeons in Tennessee.
	My wife's American.
	And my dad decides to tell him the story of when the herbal doctor cured him of TB.
	My father-in-law looked at my dad and said, that's a nice story.
	But you can't patent natural remedies and natural food.
	You can patent synthetic meat and synthetic medicine.
	So, here's the other thing that you want to think about, yeah?
	The same man telling us, Bill Gates and his friends, telling us to eat lab-grown meat and bugs and basically rely on pharmaceutical medicines that aren't natural, is the same man who right now is America's largest landowner of agricultural land.
	Why does he need that land?
	What's he doing?
	Why?
	So, they're going to eat their steak, and they're going to eat their beef burgers, they're going to eat their lamb, but they're going to tell you to eat locusts and insects, basically.
	So, what do you reckon?
	What do you reckon is behind all this?
	What's going on?
	I mean, I've got some very dark thoughts on this.
	Well, yeah.
	So, Star Wars episode 4, 5 and 6 were really good.
	There's a point to this, yeah?
	As, by the way, is Mandalorian Boba Fett, because it captures the original feel of Episodes 4, 5 and 6, and Rogue One.
	I forgive these remakes, because they still capture the feel of Episodes 4, 5 and 6, which were the originals, made in 1977.
	But 1, 2 and 3, with Jar Jar Binks, were a bit weird for me.
	But really important to understand, by way of analogy, for the young kids today, many of you here are young people in the audience, you see?
	By way of analogy, to see what's going on.
	So let's talk through this analogy, because it sounds a bit less crazy when you're telling it as fiction.
	But we know reality is stranger than fiction.
	So who remembers, if you've seen the films, when Senator, then Senator Palpatine, uses an emergency Exactly, right?
	Klaus Schwab.
	So he uses an emergency within Parliament to institute an emergency law to take over because there's a foreign threat.
	By then he becomes Emperor Palpatine, yeah?
	And it's all done from within.
	In political theory, that's called a palace coup.
	Especially if it's bloodless and done in that way from the inside, that's called a palace coup.
	It doesn't have to involve palaces.
	A lot of people got confused when I used that term.
	I didn't mean the Queen has orchestrated a coup against the rest of the world.
	Well, she might.
	She might.
	Well, you know, what I mean is a bloodless coup.
	That's the palace coup, yeah?
	As opposed to a military coup, which is what we were trying to do when we were trying to overthrow the Egyptian government.
	But a palace coup doesn't require arms and guns.
	It requires deceiving people into thinking there's an emergency so that they can institute an emergency law and then never rescind it.
	Or at least never rescind the parts of it that really give you power, and pretend to rescind the rest.
	So, follow that analogy, and we see emergency after emergency being used, and there are people like Blair waiting in there for that opportunity.
	And I know Tony Blair, I've met him many times, spoken to him.
	You know, it's not that these people are, they're not a caricature sitting in some dark corner with a cloak on, waiting to stab you in the back.
	These are people that operate openly and tell you what they want to do.
	Klaus Schwab, somebody mentioned, he tells you that his young global leaders have penetrated over half of the cabinet in Canada and then he named Macron, he named a whole bunch of other people.
	This is the palace coup in answer to your question.
	Right?
	There is a network of people in my world and in the work that we used to do As political activists, this is called entryism, right?
	Entryism.
	In political theory, that's the long march.
	Right, yeah.
	Gramsci spoke about... Indeed.
	Gramsci spoke about the long march through the institutions.
	If anyone's read that, that's what's going on.
	This is a long march Through our institutions, by a network of ideologues, who are actually fascists, who are working within our state, within our governments, and I use those two terms because they're not the same, within our state and within our governments, because even when you change government, the state remains, and there are a lot of these networks in the state itself.
	And they're working to slowly subvert democracy and liberty.
	So instead, they can bring about technocracy.
	And technocracy, in a nutshell, is authoritarianism governed by AI.
	Yeah?
	So, that's what I believe is going on.
	Now, people might say, what's the evidence for that?
	But actually, it's amazing, because the last terrible years we just had with COVID, one of the silver linings for what just happened to us is that, as, back to the Star Wars analogy, as Palpatine did, when he felt that he could get away with it, is he called himself an emperor, and he came out of the shadows, and everything came out in the open.
	They overplay their hand when they think they're winning.
	That's a very common trait for ideologues.
	And the reason, arrogance, the reason why that happens is right down to why, what happens when you believe in an ideology, in dogma.
	When you adopt a dogma, an ideology, with which you're seeking to change reality, Yeah?
	So think, for example, communists who believe in dialectical materialism, that change only occurs when you encourage conflict through the Hegelian dialect, yeah?
	And you encourage that conflict, exploit that conflict and the unease that comes, and then bring a solution.
	See, you're working to certain ideological dogma about what reality looks like through a lens of ideas you've adopted, this idealism that you have for the future.
	It's why most of those types of people usually become tyrants.
	Because they're blind to reality.
	They're thinking just in terms of their dogma.
	There's a weak spot there.
	Huge weakness.
	When dogma defines your behavior, you're no longer looking at reality.
	To define your behavior.
	So you're going to be less pragmatic and more dogmatic.
	Because you're led by ideology and dogma.
	That leaves serious blind spots.
	You end up not seeing reality for what it is.
	And that's why they overplay their hand.
	Because they're not looking to reality, they're looking to their dream.
	Right?
	Their ideal.
	Which is actually a nightmare.
	So there's one great thing that happened over COVID, and that is they overplayed their hand, and they exposed themselves to everybody here in this room.
	Yeah?
	There's now...
	There's now very little doubt among people that have heard of the World Economic Forum that it's attempting to influence how we do government and politics in this country, even though Klaus Schwab isn't British.
	Why do we have an unelected bureaucrat, and a foreign one at that, telling us how to live our lives in Britain?
	It doesn't make sense.
	But then you go further.
	Why do they all appear to be beholden to this unelected foreign bureaucrat?
	Why do they all appear to be doing this man's bidding?
	And when you start thinking of things in that way, you think, why can't they just say no?
	And start digging a bit more, you then realise what Epstein's black book was about.
	They can't say no, because they're... talk about compromat, compromising material and information, political blackmail, or you then get Epstein'd, if you don't agree, suicided, it becomes That's when you start realizing that this is a global palace coup, and all the means that people would have at their disposal to force another human being to do their bidding, they've been using.
	Blackmail, corruption, threats, violence, gaslighting, propaganda, everything you can think of.
	Now think of the last time a state did that, and what kind of state that was.
	Which state relied on propaganda, murder, violence?
	Exactly.
	Then start joining the dots and look up Operation Paperclip and understand what happened to the Nazis who lost the war in World War II and where did they go and who took them in.
	The CIA took them in under a codename Operation Paperclip because they needed their science.
	And they wanted their space program, and they wanted their missiles.
	When you understand this, this is all basic history at the moment, this is this part that I'm about to say is now opinion.
	Nothing I just said, Operation Paperclip is real, right?
	This is opinion, and I'm always open with people when I'm giving them my opinion, so they understand when I'm speaking about just facts.
	Operation Paperclip is a fact.
	A lot of those Nazis we settled in South America, some were taken by the CIA to work on secret programs.
	This part is opinion.
	And as a result, Nazism never died.
	Right?
	And I don't mean... I don't mean Neo-Nazism.
	Neo-Nazism was a kind of thug I was running away from as a 15 year old.
	Right?
	They call themselves Combat 18.
	I mean actual Nazism.
	Actual Nazism, not Neo-Nazism.
	The continuation of Nazism as we know it and study it in history.
	Eugenics, using science and experiments on human beings to try and manipulate and engineer reality.
	Social engineering, right?
	These are all totalitarian concepts.
	Nazi concepts.
	And they suddenly found a resurgence.
	In our day and age, right?
	And then you start understanding and you start understanding why is it that there happens to at the same time that there's a confluence between authoritarianism, technocracy, using science and experts to abuse humans, right?
	And you realize why is it all of a sudden that actual armed Nazis have re-emerged in Ukraine?
	We're funding them.
	We're arming them.
	Nobody's calling it out.
	Right?
	And before the war, everybody, including the Daily Beast and the Atlantic and the Independent and the Guardian, everybody, including, in other words, the left, were calling as of Nazis.
	They suddenly stopped calling them Nazis the minute the war started.
	Right?
	Now, by the way, by the way, this part is also a fact, but even if you were a bit doubtful about the fact that as of our Nazis, understand this.
	I founded the world's first counter-extremism organization called Quilliam in 2008 in London.
	Under that banner, I've advised presidents and prime ministers.
	I've met George Bush.
	I've met Tony Blair more times than I can think of.
	I advised Cameron in office.
	In fact, when Cameron called the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood to come to Downing Street when Mubarak was overthrown, they sent their spokesperson of the regime that was elected after the overthrow of Mubarak.
	The Muslim Brotherhood spokesperson was unfortunately named Jihad.
	But anyway, let's... Let's ignore that part.
	In the Egyptian accent you say Gihad because the J is a G. So let's call him Gihad.
	Gihad al-Haddad was brought to Downing Street as the official Egyptian representative.
	Cameron brought me there to help formulate Britain's policy towards this new Egyptian government.
	Why am I mentioning all of this?
	Because I know extremism.
	For 10 years, or 12 years, the world's Prime Ministers and Presidents were calling upon me to help them understand extremism.
	So even if you don't want to believe...
	The Guardian, even if you don't want to believe The Guardian and The Atlantic and all these other liberal papers and left newspapers that before the war were calling us Nazis.
	I've documented all of this on my sub stack with all the links and all the receipts.
	Even if you don't want to believe them, believe the guy that presidents and prime ministers were calling upon to understand extremism.
	When I sit here today and say to you, as of our Nazis, just like ISIS are extremists, right?
	Then you have to ask, why is that being concealed deliberately?
	And then I bring you back to the global palace coup, to Klaus Schwab, to penetrating cabinets, and we've got to understand
	That just as Chamberlain was appeasing Nazism and it took a Churchill to come along and kick some sense into everybody, we're in a moment now where Nazism is being appeased and our governments and our states that exist beyond the governments are being infiltrated by authoritarian extremists who have an ideology and they're using psychological means, propaganda and gaslighting, as we witnessed through COVID, to pull the wall over all of our eyes
	So that, like the proverbial frog that is boiled in water, we don't realise that we're being bored alive.
	And we've got to speak out openly, frankly, candidly, without pulling any punches, to call out Nazism where we see it.
	Last thing I'll say on this.
	Last thing I'll say on this is, some people say, but Majid, what did you do?
	Russia invaded Ukraine.
	Who else are we meant to fund?
	I say, all right, okay, fine, okay, so that's like saying that Russia was in Syria, let's fund ISIS.
	Because ISIS was against Russia in Syria as well.
	Now if you're not going to do that, but you're going to fund Nazis, I can tell you ISIS killed a lot of people.
	But with my professional extremism hat on now, Nazis have killed a heck of a lot more people than ISIS did.
	Right?
	So if you're okay with us funding Nazis, and you're not okay with us funding ISIS, if you're okay with stripping Shamima Begum's citizenship, because as a 15-year-old, she went to join Marry a man who joined ISIS, not even fight herself, but as a 15-year-old, she went to marry a man who joined ISIS.
	And you're OK with stripping her passport, but we're clapping and sending people out to fight with Nazis in Ukraine, and we're not even not stripping them of their passports, we're actually encouraging them with adverts and PR campaigns, go and join us or the Nazis.
	Then you wonder why Muslims are angry and get radicalised.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	There's a problem here.
	There's only one solution to that.
	And that one solution is, I need to criticise ISIS and Nazism.
	It's not either or.
	We can be against both.
	We can be against Assad in Syria, and Putin, as well as ISIS in Syria.
	We can be against what Putin's doing in Russia and against the Azov Nazis in Ukraine, and also, I am, I don't know about you guys, against that corrupt thief that is Zelensky.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Which before the war, the Guardian reported, and I refer to these newspapers, not because I read them, I don't read them.
	Yes.
	But because you argue with somebody on the premise that they're going to understand, so that they can't try and make a problem out of your source, instead of the actual content of your words.
	Right?
	Go to The Guardian before the war started, and there's an entire article about Zelensky's corruption, and the Pandora paper leaks, and the Panama leaks, and about all the offshore accounts, because Kolomoisky, the oligarch in Ukraine, who pretty much funded Zelensky's TV station, where his show was, this comedy show he had.
	Guess what it was about?
	Being president.
	Right?
	Kolomoisky funded Zelensky to have a comedy show on Ukrainian TV about being president.
	That same Kolomoisky funded the Azov Nazis.
	That's just a fact.
	Right?
	So, when you start looking at basically people that fund both sides, you saw that in World War II.
	If you go back to history, you will find that people in Wall Street funded the Nazis.
	Right?
	Now, that's just a historical fact.
	I don't need anybody to tell me I don't need anybody to tell me that supporting Nazism is a fundamental betrayal of everything that it means to be British.
	Right?
	And so I've got no qualms.
	Anybody for me that supports Nazism after becoming aware of these facts is betraying our country, is betraying everything we stand for, and is guilty of the kind of appeasement that required Churchill to come along and do an end to, put an end to.
	And I hope that something like that happens again because we need to wake up.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Majid, one of the many reasons I love you and would want to marry you if you weren't already taken.
	Is that you can say, you can say the stuff that I say.
	When I say it, I sound like a crazy tinfoil hat, conspiracy freak.
	And you sound like, you make it sound like really reasonable.
	I mean, I didn't disagree with a word that you said.
	You were absolutely bang on the money.
	By the way, there's not going to be time for questions.
	And anyway, I think Majid has already pretty much answered all the questions you could possibly... They turned the lights on us.
	Ah, yeah.
	So just very, very briefly before we go.
	That's what we do when we want to kick people out, right?
	Yeah.
	Well, I know... Sorry, guys.
	We've run out of time.
	Sorry.
	Sorry we've overrun.
	But, I mean, you've been brilliant.
	I've loved it.
	And I hope you have too.
	Thank you.
	No, thank you.
	It's really a pleasure to meet you.
	It's been a pleasure to meet you.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Is it over?
	Is that it?
	Is that it?
	Is that the end?
	Oh, thank you.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Just very briefly, before we go, I personally believe that what's happening in the world right now is ultimately an epic conflict between good and evil.
	Yeah.
	That's right.
	It is.
	In Islam, is there a similar concept of kind of Satan and the forces of darkness and... I mean, you might be surprised to know, James, all the stories...
	Of the Old and New Testament are in the Qur'an.
	There's only one edition we have, and that's that Muhammad came after Jesus.
	But all the other stories are there.
	All of them.
	Adam and Eve, all the way through to Jesus and his prophethood.
	They're all there in the Qur'an.
	And yes, so in answer to your question, there is this very strong, let's call it, kind of strong metaphoric presence of good and evil throughout the Qur'an in multiple ways.
	It's always there.
	Does it have a happy ending?
	Well...
	You say yes.
	Come on, come on.
	Don't send us home feeling really miserable.
	I mean, yes, there's going to be... So, let me try and answer that sensitively.
	Unfortunately, and I mean this genuinely, there's going to be some hardship, guys, before we find any peace with this.
	I think we're in for a bit of a rough ride.
	What's really important in moments like this, though, is always stay... Let's stay focused on what we know is why we're doing what we're doing.
	And we need to know what the objective is, where we want to get to.
	And then we just keep going.
	Well, thank you, everybody.
	Thank you, Majid.
	Thank you.

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