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May 2, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
01:01:07
Sally Beck
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Welcome to The Jelling Pot with me James Jellingpot and I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest but I'm really really looking forward to going down a particular rabbit hole with my special guest, Sally Beck.
Sally, you were like me, a mainstream media journalist who has since sort of cut loose from the, straight outside the Overton window, left the reservation and realised that the world is not as we were both writing about for many years.
You write for the Conservative Women.
Yeah so what I was going to say is yeah so 30 years mainstream media and the first sign that we were no longer welcome was when we were just pitching the people we would normally pitch to and getting no thanks not for us and I'm thinking We've been doing stories together for, what, 15, 20 years?
What's wrong with this one?
And suddenly those stories weren't welcome anymore.
Our stories weren't welcome anymore.
Are you talking about stories to do with COVID?
Yeah, to do with the COVID narrative.
Even simple stories, James.
One of the first ones I pitched was it would be really useful for people to know how their immune systems work.
We've got an adaptive and an innate immune system and wouldn't it be useful for us to tell us what our immune systems are going to do if we meet the COVID virus?
I didn't get any response to that at all.
Were you pitching the Daily Mail?
Yeah, so most of the stories I've written health-wise are for the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday, and I've also written health stories for the Daily Mirror, but those are my three health outlets.
And then I've also covered human interest stories, you know, which is, my family was murdered and that kind of thing, or restorative justice, Um, just anything to do with everyday life, really.
That's an extraordinary story.
Yeah, yeah.
No, do you know what?
I was, I was in a similar position, uh, to you, um, in as much as I used to do the odd health piece for the, for the male and the male on Sunday.
And at the beginning of the, of what I now realize was the plandemic, although I thought at the time it was just, initially I thought that something bad did seem to have come out of China.
And you're right, I had similar experiences.
There was a friend of mine who manufactures this very high-powered zinc.
It's not the kind of zinc you normally get in the chemist or Holland and Barrett or whatever.
It was these zinc droplets which are much more easily absorbed and he tested these.
This is based on testing in places like Africa where this These zinc drops have proved very effective in disrupting the cytokine storm, which obviously is one of the things that does kill you if you get coronavirus, whatever coronavirus is.
Well, I mean, it's SARS-CoV-2, isn't it?
And this has been effective against SARS-CoV-1, I believe, which is very similar.
Anyway, I I was trying to help this guy get his product off the ground.
He needed to get some chemicals shipped over in the lockdown, which was proving difficult and stuff, but I was trying to raise interest and money because I thought, well, this will stop people dying.
This is a much, much easier treatment.
than waiting for these vaccines, and we know that vaccines take 10 years to develop, so they're never going to be ready in time for this particular outbreak, I thought to myself, in my innocence, I thought, it's a great story, and I'll be doing great public service, and so I contacted Jonathan Rothermere, and I had a chat with him, and you know, I know him reasonably well,
And it was very odd, the conversation I had.
He was kind of, you know, lightly interested in these Zink drops, but he didn't want to push it.
He wasn't going to take the bait.
He didn't think, oh, well, this is the perfect thing for our readers.
But he was sort of cagey about the whole business about lockdowns and stuff, and I left feeling slightly unsatisfied, although I wasn't sure why.
But you're right, there are myriad stories that if this had been a genuine pandemic, and that there had been this bug going round, There were all sorts of articles that you and I could both have written about things like the innate immune system, about things like zinc, vitamin D, all the obvious stuff, and yet there came a point where all the papers wanted to talk about, bizarrely, was
The vaccine rollout and and this this it had been declared by government fiat was the only solution you think hang on a second this doesn't this doesn't accord with anything I've I've found in my researches but so did did you when you rang up these commissioning editors and we know who they are you know same ones I I've dealt with I'm sure they're they're nice people Did they give any indication that they were being given orders not to run this stuff?
Or did they just say, no, sorry, it's not for us?
No indication that anyone had been given an order.
It was just, oh, you know, thanks, Sally.
It's just not quite right for us at the moment.
And one story that really surprised me that was turned down was there's a, you probably have heard of Professor Paul Maric who's at East Virginia Medical School and it's a teaching hospital.
Professor Paul Maric is, you know, esteemed and he was testing his COVID patients in his ICU.
He was testing their vitamin C levels and he discovered that they were so low that they could be diagnosed with scurvy.
And so what he did was he was giving his patients 26 grams of vitamin C a day, which is like 26 of those little pills.
So it's a huge amount.
That's a lot of haliborange.
Yeah.
And he was finding that they didn't die and they came out of his ICU.
And, you know, when you know that vitamin C is used to fight a cytokine storm and we can't, our body can't make it.
And the only way to get your vitamin C levels up is to ingest it.
And it wouldn't matter if you ate oranges from morning till night, if you've used that much vitamin C, you need something a bit extra.
So I knew that there were studies into vitamin C and I knew that, you know, people were quite keen on vitamin C and it had been reported.
Um, as an antioxidant.
And I thought, Oh, this will sailing.
Oh my God.
No, no one was interested at all.
I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't have given that story away.
So, so, you know, there were those little red flags and I sort of plowed on for a while and I kept doing MSM stories in other fields.
And on one day, actually, it was really interesting.
I had two stories.
I pitched to the same features editor.
And one of them was about a woman who had run away with her son so that he couldn't have chemotherapy.
And at the time she was splashed all over the mainstream media for being a terrible mother.
And 10 years later, she was totally vindicated because the treatment that she'd wanted her son to have instead of chemo and radiotherapy was much kinder to the system.
and wouldn't have left him with the disabilities and learning difficulties that he has now as a teenager.
That went in.
The other one that I pitched on COVID, I didn't even get a response, not even a no thanks.
So the two I pitched to the same editor on exactly the same day, one was a spread in the paper and the other one didn't even get a no thanks.
So it was all, you know, really, really interesting.
I'm just going to make sure I don't run out of battery, James.
My thing fell out.
You're quite quiet.
I don't know whether there's any way you can turn up your volume at all.
Can't turn it up?
Well, yeah.
That's on full volume.
Maybe if I come a bit closer.
Is that better?
Is that a bit better?
A bit better, yeah.
I'm particularly eager to talk to you about a I want you to take me down the Andrew Wakefield rabbit hole, because this is really interesting.
I love, on my podcast, finding a guest who can tell me about a particular area of interest, which I've always been curious about, but somebody who has the full details.
Can I just tell you what I know about Andrew Wakefield?
Yes, sure.
I think this will be the case for a lot of viewers and listeners, which is that Andrew Wakefield crossed my consciousness when my children were very small.
And there was talk at the time about how the MMR vaccine that I think was compulsory for, or nearly compulsory for children, you know, you got hassled by the health services, didn't you?
If you didn't, if your children weren't up to date with their MMR jabs.
So, so we like good citizens imagine that we'd have to do it.
And then the Andrew Wakefield, this, this doctor,
started suggesting that maybe the MMR was linked to cases of autism and other other unusual childhood illnesses and that part of the problem he suggested, this is why I picked up from the ether and you can correct me when I'm wrong, but he suggested that maybe it would be better to get these injections separately because when you had them together they did more damage.
So I Much to the annoyance of my wife, I insisted that she go to separate clinics, remote clinics, to get the jabs done separately rather than together.
And she cursed me for this because it was always her who had to do it rather than me and she had to go to the back end of Beyond and stuff and it was a real pain because you had to do it three times rather than once and so on.
And then After that, I sort of read in the papers that, no, Andrew Wakefield was a charlatan.
He'd been roundly discredited.
There was no evidence for any of his claims.
And then the story sort of ended.
And that was, I think, where most of us, most of us who took out information from the mainstream media were left with Andrew Wakefield.
He'd been discredited.
He was a quack.
He'd rightly been, you know, fled abroad.
You're going to tell me that this is nonsense.
Well, so Zori ended in 2010 when he was struck off by the GMC, accused of callous disregard, were the exact words.
So where was he before?
Just tell us.
He was at the Royal Free Hospital.
He was a paediatric gastroenterologist at the Royal Free Hospital.
And the Royal Free, from about 1996 onwards, ...had parents contacting them saying, my child... Andrew Wakefield had done a study into wild measles and how it could cause Crohn's disease because he's a gastroenterologist and that was his area of interest.
But from 1996, the Royal Free began getting letters from parents and it wasn't just one or two letters.
They had over a thousand parents contact them saying my child was fine until they had their MMR vaccination and now they have bowel disease, they can't go to the loo, they're very badly constipated and they also have autism.
Could you please investigate?
So The parents, they had a two year waiting list at one point at the Royal Free.
So the parents came to see Andrew Wakefield and his team and they told their story and they all had very similar stories.
And as a clinician, the clinical indications were that these children needed a colonoscopy to see what was going on with their bowels.
Why weren't they going to the loo?
And did it have anything to do with their autism?
And fast forward to the 1998 case study that was published in The Lancet.
So 12 children from 11 families had biopsies at the Royal Free Hospital.
And what they were looking for in these biopsies was bowel disease.
And also they were looking for the measles virus.
And what they found in these children's guts was vaccine-strain measles virus.
And they also found that they had a sort of novel bowel disease.
It wasn't quite Crohn's, it wasn't IBS, it wasn't anything they'd really seen before.
Andrew Wakefield had done A lot of investigation into the safety studies of the MMR.
Now what you might not know is that two versions of that jab were withdrawn because they were causing encephalitis and inflammation of the brain, essentially, in children.
So two versions were withdrawn, and it was the Urabi component, which was the mumps component of the vaccination that was causing those problems.
So we, first of all, we had the measles jab in 68, then they added measles and rubella, and that was about 10 years later.
And then they added measles, mumps, and rubella, and that, we got that in 1988.
But what's really interesting, James, is that the only one of those diseases that could cause actually serious damage to a child is the measles.
And it was very rare that that happened.
The year that they bought in the MMR, there were 35 deaths from measles that year.
And the deaths from measles had dropped from about the back of the 1800s from over a thousand deaths a year.
Down to double figures.
So they'd reduced by about 98% and they'd been consistently that low for quite a long time.
It wasn't particularly the single measles jab that made any difference.
Doctors say what made the difference was better food, better housing, clean water and better healthcare.
And also our immune systems learnt how to deal with measles.
If you were budgeting to spend your money, you'd have been better off spending your money not on the MMR, but on a road safety campaign.
That would have saved more children's lives in a year.
To put it in context, you get about 1,500 deaths a year from asthma.
And so we were getting, no one worries about, there's no outcry about asthma, is there?
No one says, oh my God, asthma is so appalling.
We must do something about asthma.
We just accept that people die from asthma.
And 1,500 deaths a year.
And measles, we were getting 35, and that was a bad year.
It had actually been 16 deaths a year before.
Anyway, back to Andrew Wakefield and his team.
They would have been negligent had they not investigated.
But instead of, and what they did was they looked at the safety studies and the safety studies for the single measles vaccine had been done at St.
George's in Tooting on what they described as idiots and imbeciles.
One child had died in the study and they'd simply replaced that child.
They'd been using Down syndrome children and children with low IQ.
So they reviewed the safety studies.
They thought these safety studies are, you know, not really worth the paper they're written on.
They discussed it.
They discussed, should we have a press conference to announce our findings?
The Dean of the Royal Free agreed they should have this press conference.
And they knew that a journalist would ask them, is the MMR causing autism?
And the answer to that was, we don't know, but we would like the government to suspend the MMR and reintroduce a single vaccine so that we could do some more research into it.
All very sensible.
The government presumably thought, what if the MMR isn't what we say it is?
What's that going to cost us in compensation?
You know, maybe there's... What if we have to pay a thousand children a million quid in compensation?
That's going to be huge.
So let's not suspend the MMR.
Let's increase confidence in the MMR vaccine and all this will go away.
And it didn't go away, obviously.
It bumbled on and then A journalist called Brian Deer wrote a story for the Sunday Times, essentially accusing Andrew Wakefield of misleading the country over the MMR.
And, you know, that's how it all began to unfold.
What do we know about Brian Deer?
I mean, was he was he a regularly used writer or was he unusual?
He was a freelance.
He was a loner.
He lived very close to us.
He lived in Brixton.
He lived in Railton Road in Brixton.
He was the opposite in every physical sense to Andrew Wakefield.
So Andrew Wakefield is about Six foot two, six foot four.
I can't quite remember how tall he is, but he's a very tall man.
He's very softly spoken.
He's full of empathy.
Brian Deer is about five foot seven.
He's a gray man.
He's not warm in any way.
He boasted, I think, about just in fashion and committed suicide After he was exposed as a gay football player and Brian Deer had had a hand in that story and he was, you know, he thought this was quite something that Justin Fashion, who committed suicide, you know, he was quite proud of that, I think.
Right.
When we were at the GMC to listen to the hearing, The press room was packed, and Brian Day was in that press room, and there was not a single journalist who met his eyes.
No one.
You know, he had just succeeded in getting this terrible doctor struck off, and no one wanted to engage with him.
And I remember sitting there thinking, that's interesting.
You know, why are they kind of almost Giving him the cold shoulder.
I didn't really understand.
These are kind of health correspondents.
Yeah, this was all the national press.
Obviously, it was a huge story.
It was the longest and most expensive GMC hearing in British history.
Andrew Wakefield and John Walker Smith.
So there were three doctors on trial there.
Two of them were struck off.
John Walker Smith, one was cleared.
John Walker Smith appealed later on, and I wrote down some words that Mr. Justice Mitting used to describe the way that Professor John Walker Smith had been struck off, and he cleared him.
And he said, hang on, he said, There were universal inadequacies, insufficient evidence, laconic was the word used, fundamental errors, inadequate, distorted summary of evidence, factually unsound, flawed, perverse.
I mean, it goes on and on, James.
What was his role in the hearing?
There were 13 authors for this paper that was published in The Lancet.
All 13 authors were asked to retract the interpretation that their paper had said the MMR could cause autism.
They'd never said that.
It wasn't in the paper.
It was an interpretation that the media had made.
And kind of rightly, you know, they asked the right question.
Can the MMR cause autism?
Wakefield and a cohort suspected it could, but they didn't have the evidence.
So they were cautious.
They said, we didn't conclusively prove that the MMR could cause autism, but we would like to investigate further.
So they were asked to retract that interpretation.
They said, well, we never made that interpretation.
We are not going to retract it.
So the three of them found themselves in front of the GMC.
Professor John Walker-Smith was the most senior and the lead author, I think, on the paper.
Either Wakefield or Walker-Smith were the lead authors.
And they said, no, we're not going to because we never said that.
And they found themselves up in front of the GMC.
But okay, so the General Medical Council.
Yes, the General Medical Council.
Who was that sort of QC you mentioned, the one who said that it was inadequate?
So Mr Justice Mitting was the QC who heard Professor John Walker Smith's appeal.
So John Walker Smith was struck off with Wakefield.
He appealed.
Wakefield didn't have the money for an appeal and his insurance would not cover him and They weren't prepared to put the family home on the line for half a million quid.
So he never got his day in court and he never got to appeal.
But Walker Smith did.
And he was reinstated.
And so he's no longer struck off and no longer a blemish on his record.
Right.
So the others, after the 13 authors, 10 kind of decided the discretion was the better part of valor and just saved their skins, even though they had to admit to doing something they never said even though they had to admit to doing something they never said in the And three of them held out.
So Wakefield and who was the third?
So Dr Simon Murch, he was the most junior and he was cleared by the GMC during that hearing.
So, you know, he walked away without a stain on his character.
Walker Smith and Wakefield were struck off.
And what does it, I mean, when you're struck off the medical register, that's the end of your career, isn't it?
There's no coming back from that.
Well, they can't erase the fact that you've done your medical training.
Yeah.
They can't stop you from practicing, but you will no longer be endorsed by the GMC.
And if asked, and anybody can check a doctor's record on the GMC register, and if asked, the GMC will say, we've struck this doctor off.
You know, best not to use them type thing.
And obviously no NHS is going to employ a struck off doctor.
No, no, absolutely not, absolutely not.
So, the General Medical Council, who... is it a government body?
Is it a... what is it exactly?
I don't know who funds them.
They are the governing body for all our doctors, but it took them quite a long time to strike off Harold Shipman, I can tell you.
And I think I wrote a piece about that for The Conservative Woman.
Yes, you did.
They're chasing a doctor called Dr. Sarah Myhill.
She's the most reported doctor in history.
So 35 complaints against Dr. Sarah Myhill.
And the GMC had never brought a fitness to practice case against her.
Because there's nothing they can bring a fitness to practice.
So it's basically trolls from the internet or people who don't want Dr. Sarah Myhill to say that ME and chronic fatigue syndrome is not all in the mind.
There is a physical cause for it and there's been a big fight over that.
Now that's been admitted that actually there is a physical cause for ME.
Is it vaccine?
Sorry?
Is it vaccine?
Potentially.
Yeah, potentially it's vaccine related.
But she's treating people with, you know, supplements and having huge success.
But Yeah, she wants to deregister herself but the GMC won't let her until they've finally ruled that the last of the 35 complaints against her will not result in a fitness to practice.
Just going back to the fascinating case of Dr Shipman, Harold Shipman is the doctor who murdered lots of his elderly patients over a period of, a long period wasn't it?
Can you remind me of the details?
I think it's 20 odd years.
The number of patients he murdered is in the hundreds, but I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many hundreds.
He'd set himself up in a lone practice, and he would often go to patients' houses, and very soon after his visits, the patients would die, having been given very strong doses of diamorphine.
Right.
And it wasn't until he started altering patients' wills in his favour that he kind of blew his cover really.
He's a very interesting character, that's another whole thing and I could gen up on that.
So what did the GMC do to Harold Shipman?
They didn't suspend him or strike him off until after he'd been found guilty.
So he'd been arrested and he was still allowed to, you know, he wasn't suspended.
Wouldn't their line have been that, you know, he was innocent until proven guilty and therefore that it wasn't their job to... Presumably.
Presumably.
But I see what you're saying, that Andrew Wakefield writes a perfectly, or co-authors a perfectly reasonable paper, duly cautious, And get struck off.
While the doctor who murders hundreds of his patients gets a free pass until... Exactly.
And you also have to remember there were 1,300 families who were bringing a case against the MMR manufacturer who I think GlaxoSmithKline and Merck And Sanofi, I think, were the three.
And the day before that case was due to be heard, the judge in that case pulled their legal aid.
So that case could not go ahead.
So those parents have never had their day in court.
The MMR vaccine has never been cleared or found guilty as a wrongful medicine.
Andrew Wakefield, who's been accused of scientific fraud by the BMJ, has never been tried for scientific fraud.
And Fiona Godley, who's the editor of the BMJ, has tried very hard to make that happen twice.
And it's never happened.
So, you know, what you see, basically, when people start writing about Andrew Wakefield, They say, oh, he committed fraud, he's discredited, he was struck off.
Well, no one's discredited his paper, ever.
I mean, it's been withdrawn, but it hasn't been discredited.
The science still holds on that paper.
So much of what you're describing has been repeated, or at least rhymed with, In the last two years over Covid hasn't it?
Yeah and this is why I got in touch with you actually because all those doctors that we know who are really awake when it comes to the Covid vaccine and Covid They all dismiss Andrew Wakefield.
They all, you know, think, oh, yes, well, he was struck off.
But it had an effect on their psyche and it had an effect on all doctors' psyche.
And so many doctors would not speak out over various vaccines.
And there's been, you know, we know about the swine flu.
We know about the HPV vaccine.
They've all come under scrutiny and have been proved to cause harm to recipients.
But doctors didn't want to speak out because they saw what happened to Andrew Wakefield.
And in fact, I can give you a quote, I can give you a great quote from Wakefield.
I wrote it down so that we get it exactly.
And he says, I have learned what it's like to be sidelined and ridiculed, Mike Yeadon, Peter McCullough.
What has happened to me has taught other scientists that it's safer not to rock the boat.
Doctors are scared to speak out for fear that what happened to me may happen to them.
And that can't be good for science.
And never a true word.
But what was really interesting, James, is that he was struck off in January.
In August, a very rare case of the vaccine damage payment scheme was a payment of 80,000 was awarded to a boy who was 18, who had been damaged by the MMR.
And the only reason that award was made was because they weren't claiming for autism, but they were claiming for autism-like symptoms, but not actually autism.
So, sort of eight months after Wakefield was struck off, we essentially admitted, well, this vaccine has harmed this kid so badly, we're paying him £80,000.
But what was even more interesting, that was the front page of the Mail on Sunday, that story, and I wrote the comment for that.
And on the Monday, the Guardian headline was, the vaccine myth that will not die.
Yes.
Come on, it's no longer a myth.
We've admitted, we've paid this kid.
He was damaged.
We've paid him £80,000 out of the public purse.
We paid him.
Yeah, I wanted to discuss this with you, Sally, actually, because I don't often talk to fellow former members of the contributors to the mainstream media.
But for example, before we had this chat, I read your article that you wrote in 2010, I think, for the Mail, summing up the case.
And it's interesting, reading that piece, it was so sort of hedged about with, on the one hand and on the other, that one couldn't really get a proper take.
So I remember thinking at the time, whenever Andrew Wakefield's name cropped up, I was thinking, what's the real story here?
What is the truth?
And all the newspaper articles I read, I mean, actually, you know, my antennae were just twitching.
I wish I'd followed it through at the time, but I could see that something did not make sense because you could not read a newspaper article and find any sense out of this.
Nobody was having a strong take.
It was all hedged about.
You sensed that something was being concealed, but you weren't sure what.
Now, do you remember when you wrote that piece, I would imagine that those sort of balancing phrases were inserted at the assistance of your editors, am I right?
Oh my god, it went backwards and forwards so many times.
I think five times in the end.
And the thing, the kind of thing that got cut out was that there were, I think at the time, there were 11 other universities and medical establishments who'd replicated that study and that wasn't allowed to be in there.
And it was, you know, we did want to, I absolutely wanted it to be balanced and so we had to be frank about What the response had been to his, you know, that press conference.
And we got the chance to say, you know, lots of people stopped, like you, stopped giving their children the MMR.
The government blamed a rise in measles cases on vats.
From the low bar of 35.
I mean, what would, you know, they could have doubled.
From the low bar of 35.
Yeah, quite.
And there was one child who died and we couldn't find out details about that child for a while.
But what we did find out that that child was already immunocompromised.
So that was not a healthy children.
Healthy children were not dying from measles.
None of those 35, I suspect, were healthy.
I remember the kind of bullying narrative that you constantly heard about.
Even then the concept of anti-vaxxers was being thrown around and these selfish anti-vaxxers, you know, experts were worried that the selfishness of anti-vaxxers believing their conspiracy theories
was resulting in a huge escalation of measles and they probably gave a percentage because they'd never have printed the raw figures because people have gone what 35 has now gone up to whatever even if it even if it'd gone up to 18 I think.
35 has gone up to 18.
I mean, that's how it went.
You know, it was 16 that year, 35 then, you know, something like 21 the following year.
So actually, they were flat out lying to us.
Yeah.
Yes, they were.
Yeah.
So Beasles was no longer a problem.
You see, the thing is, you and I, people sort of wonder
Why why it took people like you and me so long to wake up and and after all most of our MSM colleagues are still are still in the they're still promoting this kind of mendacious paradigm and you know we like the editors that we work with um they're very agreeable but at the same time you're thinking they are propping up a really corrupt system they are
Have you read the RFK Junior book about Fauci, the real Anthony Fauci?
Yes, well I've read Extracts and I interviewed Robert about it and I did a two-parter for the Conservative woman.
Because it's clear, isn't it, reading that book, that what you describe having happened over MMR, where Andrew Wakefield was deliberately made an example of pour encourager les autres, which he did very effectively.
Because no one, no doctor thereafter wanted to be associated with Wakefield and thus tarnishing their reputation as an anti-vaxxer.
But before that, you had the fake AIDS pandemic or epidemic, where again, a couple of doctors, maybe three or four, spoke out and they were vilified.
They were cut off from any pharma funding, any research funding.
And one of the things that he mentions in the book is how medical journalists, health journalists, they will not get their quotes from the pharmaceutical industry, from leading doctors, if they do not play ball.
It's true.
I don't know if you've heard of the Science for Media Centre.
So the Science for Media Centre.
By Fiona Fox.
I can't remember who runs it.
I only went once.
I went there once and I asked a challenging question and there was a tumbleweed moment and it was a really reasonable question.
There was a tumbleweed moment because it was too challenging And I was never invited back again.
And I can also tell you that when Bill Gates was in London in, I think it was 2011, launching Yavi, with various heads of different African nations.
And I was at that press conference.
And all the mainstream media were there, including broadcast media.
And I asked Bill Gates about halfway through the conference, I said, in the US, there's a great scheme where all the vaccine manufacturers pay a levy on every vaccine sold into a fund that pays out for those people who are disabled or die after receiving a vaccine.
Have you set that scheme up in Africa?
There was a massive tumbleweed moment.
Bill Gates did his usual, that the benefits outweigh the harms.
A couple of the African sort of health heads said something.
And then Bill Gates said, oh, thank you very much.
I think that's everything, everyone.
And he cleared the room.
And they recorded that press conference.
And a recording of the press conference was sent round to people who couldn't be there in person.
And that question was cut out.
It's very I had a flavour of this.
It's run by somebody called the Science Media Center, which purports to be the sort of conduit to between journalists and scientists.
It says for journalists, the Science Media Center provides journalists with what they need in the time frame they need it from interviews with leading experts to timely press briefings on hot topics.
For scientists, the SMC runs free events to introduce experts to the news media.
We also provide advice and support to scientists on media engagement.
So it's basically a gatekeeper.
And it's yeah, the woman who runs it or yeah, is called Fiona Fox.
And she is the sister of Claire Fox.
Claire Fox, the sort of outspoken kind of lefty libertarian now Lady Baroness Fox in the House of Lords.
And I had a few encounters with the Science Media Centre and very over over the global warming thing.
And very quickly came to the conclusion, this was a completely compromised institution, but this is how it works.
I imagine that if you want to pitch stories to the mail as a health story, say, and they pay reasonably well, you've got to be on board with the mainstream narrative.
Yeah, if you're doing anything on medicine, you have.
All the stories I did for the Mail on Health were usually case study based, so I didn't need that.
But basically, the Science for Media Centre is a bit like, you know, if you're a celebrity journalist, you can either do celebrity news or celebrity features.
You can get in front of a celebrity, interviewing those celebrities, and the gatekeeper is the celebrity's PR.
And if you like the profile that you write about them, then you will get more celebrity journalist interviews.
If you want to expose how they're shagging, you know, the next door neighbor or, you know, how they behave appallingly on set, you have to be a news reporter because you will not get to those celebrities through their PR.
You won't get an hour or half an hour.
Yeah, so you can either do one or the other.
So the Science for Media Centre is the gatekeeper to Big Pharma.
Actually, Pfizer engaged with me quite a bit early on, until they realised the kind of stories that I was writing, and then they refused to, they won't respond to me anymore.
The MHRA will still respond, but they never ever give me a straight answer.
Anyone in the NHS will send me round the houses, so I I emailed the UK HSA the other day and I got seven out-of-office responses.
Seven out-of-office responses.
Fantastic.
And I had to wait sort of two or three days to get an answer.
James, it's awful, really.
We're laughing about it, but this is people's health and people are dying.
People are dying.
Do you look back on your former self and think, how could I have been so naive?
Because you've mentioned, actually, that intrinsic corruption.
Sort of moral corruption within the industry.
You mentioned celebrity interviews.
You've got to keep it nice in order to get more celebrity interviews.
And it never really occurred to me when I was doing it.
I thought I was being fair, but I kind of wanted this.
I wanted the star to like me.
So I so I kind of, you know, I look for the best in them.
I very rarely wrote nasty interviews, not not because I was lying, but because You know, I wanted to do more of it.
Same with medical pieces.
I mean, what we were doing was kind of compromised, wasn't it, by the system?
Yeah, well, thankfully.
So I had a good run of 12 years, so from 98 to 2010, of doing medical pieces that challenged That challenged the MMR, that challenged other vaccines.
Oh, I don't think I did actually anything on another vaccine.
It was only the MMR I think I challenged.
And I had a really good run of that, so kind of a 12 year stretch.
And then all that went after Wakefield was cut off and has never ever come back really.
Never.
Yeah.
Mainstream media did report that swine flu caused narcolepsy, but that was really only because Scandinavian countries withdrew it first.
I think there's never really been a consensus in mainstream media over the HPV vaccine.
I think there's still lots of injuries happen there, but it's not really widely reported.
Well, no Maxine industries are honestly reported, are they?
I mean, do you think it's fair to say that every health section of every newspaper is controlled by Big Pharma?
I think that every health section in every newspaper has a selection of stories that are controlled by Big Pharma and a selection of stories that aren't.
And I think that's fair to all those health outlets.
So anything that they publish of mine, and I've only just really stopped publishing health stories.
I think I even have had one this year in Daily Mail Health.
I can't remember what it was, but I'm sure it's on my website.
So they are still publishing my stories, but just not on COVID.
And none of my stories will come through the Science for Media Centre and none of them will be censored in any way at all.
So we do know that Bill Gates funds the UK health security section of the Telegraph and Bill Gates also puts money into the BBC and the Financial Times And I'm not sure whether The Guardian as well.
So you would expect some bias there, but... Yes.
But I think you're being too kind.
I mean, you know, you say that only some of the stories are controlled by Big Pharma, but look, you tell me how many stories you've read in the health sections or in the main sections of any newspapers which are talking seriously about vaccine injury from the Covid jabs,
Or about the damage of autism caused by the MMR jab, or looking back at the damage done by Jonas Salk and the polio.
I mean, I don't really listen to Cliff High's podcast.
Cliff High was talking about how Polio vaccinations effectively led to a bloom, apparently that's the technical term, in stomach cancer for the male.
No, that's right.
Stomach cancer for the offspring of women who'd had it.
And in men it had some other effect.
And you know, when I was a child, my mother gave me all the jabs that you had to have.
I spent my childhood having, going in and out of hospital, having barium enemas, I remember, to check for irritable bowel syndrome.
Well, I'm, you know, and I got allergies and stuff.
I now know damn well that these were vax injuries, this sort of stuff, but it never gets talked about.
And most people, people like my mother, who's still with the Daily Mail, most normal people just get fed relentless Propaganda, big pharma propaganda, propaganda from the food industry telling you about how the red meat's bad for you, gives you cancer.
No, it doesn't.
That you've got to eat five vegetables a day.
No, you don't have to.
Yeah, it is relentless.
And you and I were part of this lie machine.
And I refer you back to that article that you wrote in 2010, where I tried to read it and find out what your position was.
And even though your name was on it, actually, it was really, the people upstairs had taken away all the value from it.
Do you know what I mean?
They had, and you know, their reasoning would have been, well, look, we don't have the verdict on this man yet.
So, you know, if he'd been cleared, I would have been allowed to be totally unfettered in that article.
As we didn't have the verdict, the verdict was being, you know, the following week.
You know, they erred on the side of caution.
And I think they were glad that they had.
I wasn't.
I think the piece was reduced in size.
It was supposed to be three pages.
I think it ended up being two.
I've still probably got the original somewhere.
It'd be really interesting to read that again to see what I put in and more.
Where do you think the, where do you think it comes from?
Does it come, is it health editor level or is it a higher level?
Who polices this?
I think it's probably higher.
And there will be more than one editors, you know, so it goes through your sub-editor, it goes through your features editor, The health editor will probably have had a look.
The editor will have a look.
The deputy editor will have a look.
And they will know this is a hot potato.
You know, how hot are we going to allow it to be?
And to be fair, totally fair, James, there was no verdict.
So we couldn't say one way or the other whether he was like, we had to just stick with the facts.
And we gave all those really interesting facts about, you know, not a single parent ever complained about Andrew Wakefield, about Dr. Andrew Wakefield.
Not a single parent.
There's never been a complaint.
And that's what the GMC is there for, to take complaints from patients.
Can you give me an update on where Andrew is now?
Oh, he's in Hollywood.
Living with Elmer Thurston.
With Elmer Thurston.
Yeah, I gathered that.
So very sadly, he had a lovely wife called Carmel.
I went to their family home in Texas.
She was also a doctor, highly intelligent woman.
They had four children.
They have four children together.
I think when I was there, the youngest was maybe 10, I want to say.
So the youngest is now probably 20 odd.
They had a lovely family.
The pressure of this broke them up.
Yes.
But Andrew Wakefield is now living with Elmert Fersen.
He's been extremely quiet about COVID.
And I think he must be so relieved that people like Dr. Peter McCullough and Mike Eden and Robert Malone are taking the heat.
And also standing up to be counted.
I'd like to know whether they Have spoken to him.
I would probably ask them, actually.
I'll probably ask them if they've spoken to him.
But I think he feels like he's done his bit.
He's a very strong individual.
He wasn't scared to put his head above the parapet.
He wasn't scared to stand by what he said.
And he wasn't scared to stand by his research.
And he still will stand by that.
And he's a hero to a lot of those parents.
I can tell you that.
He is.
He is.
Real hero.
And I'm so sad that not only his career had to be destroyed by the GMC at the behest, presumably, of Big Pharma or the shadowy forces behind Big Pharma, but that also his family had to be ruined.
I mean, OK, it's nice getting the compensation of a supermodel, but, you know, it'd be nice to think that he was still with his original family, as he would be.
And his wife was beautiful, very attractive woman.
Attractive in every way.
I was thinking it reflects well on Elle Macpherson that she was prepared to look beyond the lies.
And the smears and realise and have faith in this man.
Yeah, I've got to go now.
I've got to go and get some duck for supper.
But what I wanted to say to you was, first of all, congratulations, Sally, on Having made the leap from mainstream media scumbag shill, as I was, to total outcast, it does require a degree of courage.
And I have to say, I have This much respect.
No, no, I can't even, it's immeasurably, it's immeasurably, it's so much smaller than that.
How much respect I have for people still working for the mainstream media and not calling out the pandemic and not calling out the The food distribution warehouses being deliberately destroyed, probably at the behest of the World Economic Forum, and the people who aren't telling the truth about Ukraine and so on.
People who are just sort of going, la la la, yeah, it's all going to get back to normal soon and we're going to keep our fat salaries.
They're scumbags, all of them.
We're outcasts with a K, James, I think.
I'm happy to be that way.
Yeah, well you were outcast as in, as in the, the, the rap, the rap performer.
Yeah, yeah, we've completely gone over.
We're badass.
You know, we're no longer, we're no longer sort of even slightly posh public school, which I think you probably went to public school, did you James?
Yeah, no, I'm still, I'm still, I'm still really, really fake posh.
I'm, you know, I go Fox High School.
No, people think I'm posh because I talk reasonably posh and because I'm very well educated, but in fact, you know, my parents are middle, middle class.
Mine too.
I went to boarding school and a grammar school, but yeah, I think people think, you know, that we are posh, but we're outcasts with a K, like the rap bands.
Yeah, we are.
We're done with the people now.
We're revolutionists.
We're so uncool for having said that.
Sally Beck, thank you for being on the Dallying Pod and thank you for talking about Andrew Wakefield and helping to sort of restore his reputation.
Do you have anything you want to plug before I go off to breakfast?
Absolutely nothing, James.
Nothing that I want to plug.
I haven't written a book recently.
I've got nothing to sell.
I just wanted... And you couldn't sell anything you wanted to now!
No one's going to buy your articles anymore.
Lord Rothers.
But no, I just wanted, you know, for the doctors who are really interested in this, who still think that Andrew Wakefield is a fraud, who think he was unethical, who think That he was only in it to make money.
I just wanted really to say, actually guys, that was nothing like the case.
He was an empathetic doctor who did the right thing and investigated those very sick children and tried to make a difference to their lives.
I'd just like to say thank you to all the people who support me on Patreon, on Subscribestar, at Locals and Substack.
I really appreciate the support.
And anyone who doesn't support me, why don't you think about it?
Because actually, don't waste your money on the mainstream media crap.
They are evil scumbags.
They do not deserve a penny or a cent of your money.
People like me in Saudi do deserve your money because we're fighting a brave fight.
We're trying to save the world.
Trying to save the world from the scumbags.
And if that's not worth donating to, I don't know what is.
Also, if you see this in time, don't forget to come and see me on the 29th of April at Deling Pod Live with Majid Nawaz in central London.
You can get your tickets from Eventbrite.
And I look forward to seeing lots of you there.
Thank you very much, Sally Beck, and enjoy the rest of your day.
Thank you, James.
Lovely talking to you.
Bye-bye.
Bye.
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