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Jan. 21, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:50:21

Abi Roberts

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	I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I love Abby.
	Abby Roberts so much.
	Welcome to the DeliPod with me, James DeliPod.
	I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I love Abby Roberts so much.
	And not just because Abby made me her, what, Hero of the Week or something when you were on GB News.
	What did you do?
	Yeah, Great Britain.
	Oh yeah, Great Britain, which is, which is great.
	Yeah, Great Britain, greatest world, yeah, leader, whatever.
	So, which instantly elevated you to my favourite female comic.
	In a really crowded field, Abby.
	I mean, it's usually crowded.
	I was going to ask you, who's that really, really unfunny one?
	And then I realised that actually that wouldn't really narrow it down very much.
	No, that would be here all night.
	Oh, it's so lovely to be here.
	Abi, it's going to be like, it's going to be like talking to myself, basically, because I consider you, you know, you're like a kind of, you're a version of me, a lovely version of me.
	And I wanted to ask you, first of all, just, just like your background, because, I mean, You were I mean you still are a comic but I imagine I've just imagined knowing how woke the world of comedy is that the works kind of dried up a bit of late in the last two years say is that is that right?
	Yeah, very definitely.
	I mean, I had a weird sort of trajectory because I was basically gigging in all the big clubs and then I did a show in Moscow, partly in Russian and partly in English, you know, as you do.
	Oh, like Eddie Izzard?
	Well, although actually I beat Eddie Izzard to it, but I never remind him of that fact.
	So can you speak Russian?
	Yeah, I speak Russian.
	Almost free.
	Do you know what?
	Not only does that sound Russian, but it sounds like your accent is quite good.
	It's not.
	It's pretty good.
	I have to, even Russians say that's quite a good accent.
	But I mean, I grew up, I'll get to that later.
	I kind of grew up, my dad was a sort of in the, was a diplomat.
	KGB?
	KGB, yeah, probably, probably all those things.
	So I went to Russia quite early on before anyone else did in the 80s.
	But, so I was doing, so that's, then I came full circle and then did stand up in Moscow, sort of like the first, I was the first British person to do it, you know, with using Russian and blah, blah, blah, in 2016 and 2017.
	And then my husband died.
	My husband, who is my manager, I think I told you, Terry.
	He loved you, by the way.
	His favourite book was Watermelons.
	So if he could, he's looking down now going, this is fucking surreal.
	Sorry, am I allowed to swear?
	This is surreal.
	This is surreal that I'm talking to, you know, someone he adored as an author and a thinker.
	So it's, it's, that's, that's very, yeah, it's very, very old the way life works.
	That's really touching.
	And it's obviously he is in a better place and he's looking down.
	Yeah.
	That would be quite cool, wouldn't it?
	Actually being in heaven and looking down at what's going on, you know, not having to live it yourself, but just go a ringside seat looking at all the crap that's happening and go, whoa, whoa, I'm well out of that one.
	And in fact, you know something?
	I think about this and sort of it gives me pleasure, but also obviously pain that when he was going through his sort of like the worst times, I said, oh darling, I said, the world's going to shit anyway.
	What are you worried about?
	And actually, at that time, I didn't know what was going to happen, but sort of part of me feels quite glad he's not.
	Going through cancer treatment at this time.
	Yeah, yes.
	Was he a long time dying?
	Was it all very traumatic or was it quite quick?
	It was, well, basically he was diagnosed end of 2017.
	Then he, with his procedure, without kind of, you know, going into too much detail, his procedure gave him tachycardia.
	So the guy that did it basically created, yeah, wonderful Our wonderful health service created the problem, which I think killed him in the end.
	So he had lung cancer, but it was his heart that gave out.
	So I came back.
	We were always together.
	He was my manager and love of my life.
	I came home, having popped out one morning, came back, opened the bedroom door and he died on the bedroom floor.
	And my heart sort of, well, it became very black for like a long time, you know.
	Yes, I get that from some of the remarks you make.
	Sorry, I know you're thinking keep it light.
	No, not at all.
	No, I think keep it however you want it to be.
	I think, look, it's not like people watching this podcast haven't, some of them will have experienced bereavement and will be thinking, yeah, actually, I want to talk about this thing.
	So, yeah.
	How do you cope with losing the love of your life?
	What are the strategies?
	The strategies.
	Well, at the beginning I remember thinking that the, is it like C.S.
	Lewis said, that the emotion that's strangest is fear, because you have fear of the unknown, because if you haven't experienced, obviously seeing death right in front of you is very odd.
	And also, yeah, that was the main experience.
	I think And I know a lot of people say this, you're kept busy by the, by the business of life and the business of when someone's gone, all the kind of legal shit, you know, sort of will stuff.
	It's about a year to get through that.
	Yeah.
	So that, that stuff kind of, you can't use too much of your brain thinking about the person that's gone and it's, but it's, it's after that, period where it really sets in and you have to really steel yourself, which I have done, but I know people did cope with it in different ways.
	Weirdly, I Didn't turn to drink and drugs, which between you and me I may have done in the good old days, in my partying days.
	I kept very sober and I'm quite glad I did because it was all very, very clear, very clear to me.
	No, no, I can see that.
	I can see that drugs and drink should be used recreationally.
	They should not be used as a kind of, as an escape.
	I can see that would be an absolute, absolute dead end.
	Yes, yeah.
	I mean, I've been through periods of my life, you know, with utterly grim where I've sort of, I've sort of toyed gently with the idea of
	Topping myself and but but not but but not actually I never would because you because because you've got family and stuff and actually I you know I'm yes squeamish about that kind of thing anyway um just just in case I get offed by the cabal and um I'm found hanged or something no it wasn't me I just want to make that clear I really really wouldn't do that especially I wouldn't hang myself so fuck you cabal.
	Fuck you and anyone who killed David Kelly but yeah yeah.
	But booze, booze and drugs are not, they're not your friend.
	I think in times of crisis, they just delay the moment when you, the moment of reckoning, which I don't think is good for anyone.
	No, and I knew that instinctively.
	I thought, even though me and my husband were both, shall we say, libertarians in that regard, the other thing which was interesting, I found my faith Christianity really got me through.
	I went to America in 2019, so about two months after he passed away, and there was a Mexican lady, one of the ladies who worked at the hotel I stayed at in Los Angeles, and she said, I broke down in front of her, and she said, why don't you come to my church?
	And sort of being me, I was like, yeah!
	And then sort of thought to myself, what happens if this is the Mexican cartel and they're basically kidnapping me?
	And I end up, you know, sort of, you know, being held captive.
	But anyway, I said yes.
	I met her just near where she lived.
	And we drove to her church in Inglewood.
	And I walked in and I was the only white person there.
	It was a black gospel church.
	And so imagine me, I'm in my t-shirt, my leggings, looking just grief stricken in this church.
	And they all welcome me, sort of like 200 people.
	And then I go up and I testify About my husband?
	Yeah, in front of him!
	So I went up and I went, hi!
	Honestly, it was surreal.
	They, honestly, James, it lifted me.
	I can't tell you.
	It saved me because I was on that, on the beach.
	I've got a video of me actually saying to the camera, maybe if I walk out to sea and I keep going, Um, you know, I won't feel it anymore.
	And people, you know, it'll just be over.
	But, but so she, Arcelia Lopez, Um, saved me.
	So was that, was that your moment of, of, of discovering Christianity or what?
	Oh, well, I've, I've, I've had a strange, I had a strange route to Christianity.
	Um, I was an atheist for all of my, you know, first 20 years.
	I mean, such, such an atheist.
	I used to really piss people off, my parents, friends, by sort of constantly saying, but how can you say God exists?
	I mean, it almost became like a kind of, you know, like a, like a, what do you call it?
	Tourette's, you know, atheist Tourette's.
	So I was just like obsessed.
	And then went to Moscow.
	For the first time, sorry for the third time, but this was as an adult to study at the Moscow Conservatoire, and the family I was staying with, their priest, Father Alexander Men, Who then subsequently became, well, was quite well known, but I'll get to the bit in the story which is a bit odd.
	I decided to be baptised by him, Father Alexander, at his church near Moscow, Novaya Derevnya, and was baptised on, this is having gone through a kind of, I mean it didn't just happen overnight, it was like a transformation, it was like a gradual kind of awakening, and then And then five months later, he was murdered on the way to church from where he was living.
	He was hit over the head with the back of a sapper's spade and they never found his killer, but he was canonised, Father Alexander May.
	And I think you'd love reading about him.
	I'll send you some of his writings.
	That's, that's extraordinary.
	Was he assassinated, do we think?
	Yeah, we think he was assassinated.
	I mean, he was, there's two theories that the KGB did it.
	Or Hillary Clinton, because he was very ecumenical.
	He was very not, shall we say, always toeing the orthodox line.
	But also he was born a Jew, so there may have been people who didn't like that.
	So he was a kind of, what, an apostate, as it were?
	I mean, normally you only get apostasies, only a death sentence if you convert from Islam, isn't it?
	If you renounce Islam, I think.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So I think it's more likely that he was getting too close to being a threat to Moscow, and that's probably what happened.
	So you were baptised into the Orthodox Church?
	Yes.
	So technically...
	Technically, I'm Russian Orthodox, although I say it, but I'm not practicing, which I know that sounds like a real cop-out.
	I had to tell you what happened.
	I was so distraught after his murder.
	Yeah.
	It shook me, because he was a wonderful man, a really amazing man.
	And I went to the church in Ennismore Gardens, you know, the Russian Orthodox church?
	Yes.
	Off High Street Ken.
	And the first time I was there, I was told off, because I was a few minutes late, by a Cambridge Don, who was a friend of my dad's.
	So having been in, imagine having been in Moscow, the wonderful sort of very relaxed, well, very sort of And then to be told off in London by a Cambridge Don sort of ruined my relationship with Orthodoxy.
	So the vibe in the London Orthodox Church was that you've got to be punctual?
	Yeah you've got to be punctual and it was sort of um it was uh sure I'm just thinking about the lady in question she always wore black leather and she was sort of like you know it just looked like a Russian lesbian but she was um yeah so so it was like I was having my I was having my hand slapped at a time when it I didn't need that I didn't need to be sort of told off because I've been through something traumatic you know yeah so you had so that really
	So the gospel church experience sounds amazing.
	I'd absolutely love that.
	Oh, James, honestly, it was incredible.
	There was a choir, there was a, I'm trying to remember the name of the lady.
	Oh God, it's how awful I've forgotten her.
	She was a female, you know, the lady doing the service.
	And she'd written a book called Faith Runner.
	I will try and remember her name in a minute.
	And she wore, I remember in my diary, in my little diary, she wore like a bright, bright blue suit.
	I remember thinking she was sort of like Margaret Thatcher, because she was literally, but she was the most incredible person.
	Absolutely amazing.
	No, that's, but this stuff actually works, doesn't it?
	I mean, that's the, isn't that the amazing thing about Christianity?
	Yeah.
	Uh the the proper I'm talking about the hardcore stuff rather than the kind of rather than churchianity which which some pillocks are into and it's immensely tedious.
	I mean I just think the real deal is just amazing.
	I mean how does it how does it work for you?
	What what what what what what miracles has it wrought in your life?
	Um I would say it's probably Alongside losing my husband in that way, losing, you know, someone I loved so much, probably making me very brave and that I can, that really, you know, that challenges are for the taking.
	I mean, they're there to be, you can rise up to them as opposed to, you know, maybe not today.
	Totally.
	They should bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
	It's great.
	Oh, I love that.
	Oh, yeah, yeah.
	For he should give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
	I mean, it's all in the Psalms, because the Psalms, even though they're from the Old Testament, that they prefigure.
	Yeah.
	It's remarkable how the, I mean, this is the, I reckon religion, Christianity, is the biggest of all the rabbit holes because there's so much stuff to learn and so much to try and work out.
	And you realise, don't you, I mean I'm speaking as one sort of new newbie Christian to another, that some of the stuff that gets told to you by the different churches is just kind of
	I don't need that or I'm not sure I trust what you're saying or you know this has been yeah because all these all these traditions and all these ideas have accreted over time since the kind of the pure the early questions just meeting in groups and and I think doing what we're all doing now just resisting the uh the the tyranny and and and yes through faith and stuff but there was yeah
	I totally agree.
	And the catacombs, of course, the catacombs in Russia was what saved faith.
	I said to somebody the other day, we are, we're living people like us.
	We're living in the parallel, the sort of catacombs version, aren't we, now?
	We are.
	In 2022, we're meeting in groups and whether you have faith or not, it's sort of, I mean, it's nice if you do, but if, you know, I mean, you're still welcome if you don't.
	I mean, you might get there in the end.
	I like that idea that we're we're creating a sort of, yeah, a parallel, you know, life.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	It is.
	I said this before in a podcast, but this this I think is what Václav Havel said about about the Velvet Revolution and when when Czechoslovakia was basically a satellite of the Soviet Union.
	And it was people meeting in groups like the ones we meet in and affirming their right to live a normal life away from this corrupt and disgusting system which is trying to, which is oppressing them.
	Yeah, it's almost, don't you think?
	It's almost like all this stuff that's going on now was meant to be.
	Because the effect it's had on people's consciousness.
	We hear about the Great Awakening.
	And I'm amazed by how many people have found God in these times.
	I mean, isn't that weird?
	The way people are talking about, you know, I can't imagine three years ago, the idea of me talking about Christianity on a podcast with another Christian would be cringerama apart from anything else.
	It would freak me out.
	If somebody tried to explain to me what had happened to drive me to this past, I just thought, well, it must have been pretty dramatic.
	And if they'd explained to me that actually it was because this virus, which kills no more people than a kind of fairly average flu year, suddenly became the preoccupation of all the world's governments simultaneously in a kind of really spookily coincidental way.
	And that their response to this was to shut everyone in their homes, And to force everyone to wear masks, even though they know that masks don't work, and to deprive children of a year's education, and to let cancer patients go hang because their lives aren't as important as the 85 year olds dying of this virus, and to
	Turn the NHS into a kind of sanctified institution, not that it wasn't already, and to destroy the economy, crush small businesses.
	If you told me all this, I'd go, come on, this is like some really crap dystopia that you've just invented.
	This could never possibly happen, because why?
	Yeah.
	And yet here we are.
	Exactly.
	Here we are.
	No wonder we've turned to Christ.
	Here we are, exactly, and also I was thinking, you know the expression, you live and learn?
	Well, I'm afraid that's absolutely bollocks, because as we've seen, I mean, I suppose, was it Douglas Murray who may have said something like, well, we shouldn't really be surprised, because if you look back at history, I mean, there are examples of how bad things happen sort of over and over again.
	But I suppose the really terrifying thing is that we're in the middle of the eye of the storm.
	This is the bit that worries me.
	Yeah.
	That it ain't past.
	No, no.
	I mean, look, I find this rather troubling because it just goes to show, I think, That the people who are organizing all this, because this has been planned for decades, if not, if not centuries, they are, they are very devious.
	Because what's happening now, I think, is a false dawn.
	And lots of people who've been through hell for the last two years are kind of emerging, blinking into the light.
	They think the storm's passed and everything's going to be nice now, and they're going to get their old world back.
	And this worries me because, A, The complacency is not justified.
	They've got all manner of horror up their sleeves to inflict on us, be it food shortages, be it new regulations introduced, not in the name of combating this deadly virus, but in the name of climate change, which will be presented to us as just this deadly thing which we cannot ignore any longer, even though we've never seen anything like this.
	Yeah exactly yeah and and so it's going to go on we're going to see we're going to see the the the imminent collapse of the financial system um we're going to see all manner of chaos caused by that when people people realize their money doesn't work anymore so I don't think this is the time for complacency but equally what bothers me about what's happening now is that it's as if
	People are so relieved that it seems to be on the verge of ending that they needn't start calling for the heads of the people responsible for it.
	You know, you're getting a bit of that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	We should name the names of people responsible for all this.
	But I'm not getting a sense that what's just happened in the last two years has been an appalling Abuse of all of us and that this is not excusable and we really need to make sure it never happens again.
	I'm not really getting that sense.
	No, nor am I. And I said, I think I put on Twitter the other day, you know, you'll stop, I'll stop punching you on January the 26th.
	Why, why, why these arbitrary dates Um, you know, this is when it's going to end.
	It's like, you know, I think, I think we both, I mean, it's so abusive.
	It's so, um, heinous.
	And, um, I mean, there are so many sort of hangable offences that have happened over the last two years.
	I'm, I'm surprised that people have kept, have remained as sane as they have.
	Yes.
	Because, um, it's, it's, it's, um, it's, it's barbaric is the word.
	And when I meet people, I mean, I, I saw someone, I went down to, you know, GB News used, they did have mandatory testing.
	And then I, I refused to, well, when they said you have to test and I said, no, I'm not going to, um, they, they, I didn't do a couple of shows at the end of last year, but I've just been down there.
	I did a show on Sunday with, um, Andrew Doyle.
	And, um, when I went in, One of the people there said, um, oh, you know, I, I agree with you.
	I agree with everything you've said, but the only problem is those people don't, don't make themselves heard, um, or are afraid to say things.
	Um, so now, now it's personal choice.
	Now you can choose to do a test or not.
	And I said, well, clearly I'm not going to.
	So there you go.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	But it's, it, it's this worrying, um, It's this worrying thing that there's a few of us who are carrying this.
	Where are the other people, James?
	Who are... Surely, once we've put our heads above the parapet, you'd expect there to be people just running, you know, to join us.
	You'd have thought.
	And yet... I spent the first...
	30 or 40 years of my life, you know, say 30 years as an adult, wondering how if, say, Britain had been occupied in the war, how I would have behaved.
	Would I have been a collaborator?
	Would I have been resistance?
	Would I have hidden the Jews in my in my attic?
	Or would I have, you know, would I have been bullied into, you know, frightened to do that?
	And of course, what we've seen in the last two years that almost everyone would have would have betrayed their The Jews in their attic, they wouldn't even got to the stage of putting them in the attic and they would have collaborated or at best they would have not done anything to resist.
	And that's been a shocking discovery for me because so many of the people, I'm sure it's the same with you, I'm not going to name names but I don't need to actually because it's the entirety of the journalistic profession or trade.
	I don't think I can name a conservative commentator, I mean let alone the supposed lefty ones, who's actually stood up to this tyranny.
	They've all been useless.
	Yes, yeah.
	I think you know I was very disappointed by, well I think I've put on, basically everything I think I put on Twitter, I mean I don't censor my views, but that Douglas Murray, people like Douglas Murray, sorry there's an email coming in,
	have stuck to the thing of, you know, talking about China and talking about, you know, the woke sort of takeover, whilst completely disregarding the biggest removal of civil liberties, you know, global, what was it?
	I call it global collectivism.
	Yes.
	In history, in history.
	And I don't know, James, what are your thoughts?
	I mean, is that a blind spot?
	Is it a sort of, No I tell you exactly what it is and I mean this this applies to to the whole lot of the journalists and yeah I get I get I don't want to bitch um too much about Toby um because I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm very fond of him and we have a kind of yes We, we're in a marriage and you know, you don't want to, you don't, you don't want to slag off your, your, you know, you don't want to push it too far with your wife.
	Although he is the wife, I would have thought I must, I've got to be the man in this relationship.
	Loads of people say, say, say to me, what is it about Tobes, um, Have they got compromat on him?
	You know, was he a regular Epstein Island?
	Or is he just stupid?
	I mean, actually, to be fair, Toby did have a terrible education because of his father, you know, trendy, trendy, lefty, liberal lefty father with his notions about Father should have sent sent Tobes to a decent decent private school.
	He'd have been much better off.
	So is it compromise?
	Is it stupidity?
	Or is it something else?
	And actually, I think the explanation for people's what I would consider cowardice in so many cases is actually people just want to survive financially.
	And if you are a journalist, Um, you are very dependent, apparently, especially now the media is so monolithic.
	I mean, it's not like there are these maverick institutions out there that you could go to, to have controversial views and get paid a good salary.
	No, there are no institutions there at all.
	Just none.
	No.
	If you want to learn.
	Yeah.
	If you want to earn a living as a journalist, you have to stay inside the Overton window.
	And if you go outside the Overton window, no book deals, no well-paid columns.
	No.
	So they look at they look in the mirror and say, do I want to be that guy or that girl?
	Do I want to be the girl who who Can no longer pay off her mortgage, can no longer send the kids to private school, whatever, do I want to be like her?
	And they think, actually, no, I think I'd rather just duck the issue.
	And I'll focus on pronouns, because that's a really, you know, that's, that's a really important debate whether people should be called him or her or ze.
	And I'm going to look for examples of institutions, of which there's no shortage, institutions capitulating to woke.
	And I'm going to really focus on that and ignore the fact that the world has been turned into a Chinese concentration camp.
	Because, hey, I mean, you know, at least I've done my bit fighting the culture wars.
	That's how it works.
	Yes, yes, I know, I completely agree.
	And I do, I sympathise, I suppose, up to a point.
	And then I think to myself about, you know, people like Solzhenitsyn, who, you know, when he spoke out, it wasn't his job, his livelihood, that was at risk, it was actually his life.
	And, you know, and getting frostbite, you know, all over his body.
	And It's quite a short-sighted way of looking at it.
	So I sort of, no, I hear you, you know, because I'm trying to be empathetic.
	But at the same time, I'm thinking it's quite a short-sighted way of looking at it.
	Well, very short-sighted.
	Abby, you've actually made the point that I was going to make it.
	Thank you.
	It is, it's about, okay, so you're going to keep your salary for maybe six months, 12 months, 18 months.
	Yeah.
	What do you think is going to happen when the world, because of your inaction, the world has been so arranged that Your earnings are meaningless because you have no freedom, you can't express yourself anymore.
	The state is deciding how far you can travel from your home, whether you can drive a car or not, what kind of boiler you have in your house, how many holidays you take.
	And you think that for that extra 18 months time you bought yourself by not fighting the fight, No, it's not.
	This is the end of everything if we don't fight for it.
	Exactly.
	And in a strange way, now I don't know whether, I think they may have done experiments, they may have retracted this.
	You know when they did experiments about children who take sweets immediately and then the most intelligent ones leave the sweets?
	Yeah, that was me.
	Yeah, that's you.
	Well, it may well be me as well.
	I didn't really... I thought I was a scoffer, you know, by nature, but maybe there is something in that, which is that we're sort of seeing the... and I watched the big short the other day for about the 9 millionth time.
	I love it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	You know, the film The Big Short.
	Yeah, it's good.
	My God, the parallels in that, not just about the financial shit show, which we know didn't stop in 2008 and kept going until now.
	They just repackaged everything and just called it a different name.
	But the people that sort of saw it coming were called idiots.
	They were like, oh God, are you crazy?
	You're betting against the mortgage system.
	You must be mad.
	We're betting against them.
	We're betting against the mortgage system.
	We're saying democracy is over unless we do something.
	We are.
	And unfortunately, where that analogy falls flat is that unlike the people who spotted that the crash was coming and positioned themselves to profit thereby, We'll get no credit whatsoever, at all!
	Yeah, that's actually a good point.
	Like, shit, where's all the, yeah, the financial reward?
	But there is one thing that you and I have got, and loads of people listening to this, watching this, have got, which is just great.
	We can sleep at night.
	We are, and we know that, we know that come Judgment Day, we're not going to be found Wanting, I think, which is which is really good.
	I mean, I like that.
	I like the fact that I'm not I'm not sort of tainted by too much too much evil.
	Yes.
	You know what's evil, guys?
	It's, it's, um, and I see, um, you know, when I, I, I see videos of, um, you know, America and, uh, and thinking that I loved that country, I loved visiting the States, and I've got friends over there, and then you see, you know, the way they're treating five-year-old, well, babies and five-year-olds, they're sticking things up their, you know, their swabs up their noses and thinking, this is really, this is really, this is, I mean, pure evil, isn't it?
	This is like, um, The worst excesses of sort of medieval religion, you know, sort of just doing awful things to each other in the, you know, I mean, it's, yeah.
	Yeah, I think we've misjudged the Middle Ages anyway.
	I think, look, everything we get taught is a lie.
	Um, everything we've been taught.
	I've got this theory that all the things that we are taught most, that are most common knowledge, are the biggest lies.
	So, so, I don't know, Kennedy.
	The things, the things that made huge impacts on people's lives, so the Kennedy assassination, 9-11, and so on.
	Yeah.
	These things are, you know, well, I mean, do your research, I, I say.
	But.
	Yes.
	I've got this, I often ask myself and people like you, what is it about us that has rendered us immune to the massive spell that's been cast upon us by the cultural spell?
	Because after all, you and I have had the same brainwashing educations, I imagine, so how come we saw through it?
	That's a really good question.
	I was thinking exactly that and I was thinking, is it to do with being naturally suspicious of authority?
	Because I was always, you know, suspicious of, I mean, at school, you know, a bit of a rebel and, you know, not necessarily thinking, is that necessarily, is that right?
	I don't know whether that's, whether that, I mean, were you a rebel at school?
	I'm sure people who remember me don't think of me as a rebel exactly, but I could never, I was always taking the piss.
	So I would never take I could never do that there's a thing that particularly you've been through a sort of English public school there's the thing there was this pressure on you to become this upstanding slightly serious humorless worthy person who helps enforce the rules of the system and they give you they give you the reward of making you a prefect
	Now I was I was made a prefect but but very much on on sufferance it was it was like I was a prefect because I was like academically Right.
	And I wasn't obviously going down the pub every night.
	But it was.
	Yeah.
	But I wasn't I wasn't I was never, never one of those those boys who took the school rules seriously and respected the authority and never that I was always looking throughout my life.
	I've always been looking for the piss take angle.
	And I've and I've looked around me.
	Yeah.
	And I mean, maybe it's a Midlands thing.
	I don't know.
	I think we're quite big piss takers in the Midlands.
	I'm half black country and half Birmingham.
	And we just don't like, we don't like tall poppies.
	We don't like anyone with too many airs and graces.
	And I get this from both sides of my family.
	And I've always looked around at the world.
	And I remember this, I remember this at university, for example, looking at my contemporaries and thinking, Why are you trying to accommodate yourself with this system?
	Why are you going to the Oxford Union and talking like you're grown-ups when you're not?
	Shouldn't we all just be getting pissed and smoking dope and trying to get laid?
	I mean, not always successful, but that was... I thought we're young, we should be just... But I could see that even at school age and then at university, lots of people were trying to position themselves within a structure and a system, which I never really understood.
	It always seems slightly alien to me.
	So maybe it's that.
	And just by the by, Previous podcast guest was Matt Letizia.
	I know subtle about football, but I've learned a bit about football.
	And I was quite intrigued to see that Matt Letizia was a really, really good.
	He had real flair.
	He was scoring really exciting goals, just absolutely massively talented.
	And he's a really, really good bloke as well.
	He's really based.
	He's not your average spoilt wanker.
	He's the anti-Lineker.
	And so you ask yourself, why did Letizia, given that he's pretty much a genius, a maverick genius, why did he not have more England caps?
	Because he didn't play that much for England.
	Why isn't he?
	Why isn't he?
	Why isn't he more mega famous?
	And the impression I got talking to him was that he's too he's a bit he's too much like you and me he's got he doesn't want to play the game uh he doesn't want to to work with the system so for example he told me that that that whenever a referee made a wrong call he got really indignant about about it because he didn't like the injustice he's got a very strong sense of of of justice and awareness of injustice yeah
	And so he would make a fuss.
	Now, I can see that would be a kind of red flag.
	You know, he's not he's not working with the system.
	He's not being a good boy.
	He's just got too much talent.
	And he's not a kind of company man.
	That's a bit like me, I think, and probably a bit like you as well.
	That it's we don't like working with the system because we think the system is is wrong and corrupted.
	Yeah, I can't, I've just remembered, thank you, a memory that I'd totally forgotten about.
	When I was at school, I was head of house, just miraculously head of house, but I do remember being asked to give a speech about being an individual And somebody, I think it was the headmaster, so there was obviously something in me then, which was, but it was, so I basically gave a speech about sort of, don't be the sheep, be the one that stands out.
	And that was when I was 15.
	So I kind of, so it must have been something.
	But you know, I mean in the media world, in showbiz, oh my god James, the amount of times I've had, I've thought, I can't arse lick.
	I can't do it.
	I physically, In a way I'd rather just plough my own furrow than be the arse licker, be the sort of person that says, yes please, you know, three bags full sir.
	You know, I just, I can't do that.
	No.
	Makes me feel physically sick.
	Do you not think that the people who get on tend to be people who want to At least Brown knows the system.
	They're happy to be cogs in the machine.
	I mean, even people like comics, people like Jimmy Carr.
	Jimmy Carr, who I probably sort of fancies himself or his brand is the kind of the guy who says the unsayable and he's very dry and sassy.
	But actually, when you look at his look at his politics, like all of them, they've they all arrange their politics to suit the current the current regime, the current what's what's fashionable, what's acceptable.
	None of them really puts themselves out on a limb.
	Yeah, he's, he's, oh Jimmy, did you see his recent thing about how he, where he singles out, asks who's, who hasn't been vaccinated?
	One of his, in one of his recent shows.
	Yeah.
	Which is just make me feel And all of them do it, you know, all the big names of that kind of era.
	None of them have stood up to this tyranny.
	And as far as I'm concerned, that's where my respect for them completely ended.
	Not that I had any respect for them in the first place.
	Because they're all just cookie cutters.
	You know what?
	They may as well just wear Pringle sweaters and play golf.
	Because that's as radical as they are.
	All these wankers who go, look at me, I'm so outspoken.
	Really?
	Well, you had a chance to be the last two years and you haven't been.
	So you're off the roll call.
	Exactly.
	I mean, if one of the... well, they said about satire, don't they?
	To afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.
	Well, clearly, no, no comedian, apart from you, has got the memo on that score.
	Because you would have thought, if ever there were a ripe target for, for the invective of that, that The last Grecian comedian who used to be funny, what's he called?
	The one that used to be... Frankie Boyle.
	Frankie Boyle, exactly.
	Who used to be edgy and then decided, no, my bank manager tells me that I really need to accommodate myself by being woke and so disappointing.
	But none of them...
	None of them has risen to the challenge of, you would have thought this, this is a heaven sent opportunity to attack the status quo.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And I look around and I'm like, and you know, when I did my, my Carol Malone, you know, my Carol Malone.
	Oh I loved your Carol Malone.
	Bloody hell, get your pricks in here, love!
	Why did all that?
	Someone said to me, sent a message and went, oh, wasn't, isn't that, wasn't, isn't that a bit cruel?
	And I went, fucking, what has happened to comedy if, if you think that satirising an idiot like that is, is, is...
	You know, I mean, it's weird.
	I don't know what's happened to comedy and I keep, I mean, Lee Hurst is wonderful because he's full throttle like we are.
	Lee Hurst, who gave me actually, interestingly, gave me my first professional stand-up job at his club, The Backyard, 10 years ago.
	So maybe there's some kind of weird poetry in that.
	But he's great.
	To be honest, I don't see many people sticking it to the man.
	Which is, I mean, I can't believe it.
	I just can't believe there's not more people.
	But then, you know, maybe I don't want too much competition in what I'm doing.
	Well, you're right.
	Not many people sticking it to the man.
	Not many comics are doing it.
	And certainly not many rock stars.
	They're supposed to be really counter-cultural, aren't they?
	And look at how they've all fallen into line with with bans enforcing vaccine passports.
	You can't go and see Bruce Springsteen and all those guys.
	I mean, but isn't it?
	Isn't it?
	That's their legacy.
	Foo Fighters!
	Good God!
	Arctic Monkeys!
	All those, actually, I may have, sorry, misspoken then, I don't know what the Arctic Monkeys... No, who knows what the Arctic Monkeys' position is, but I don't think it's been very outspoken, if they have mentioned it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Exactly.
	And my hero, and actually my dad, because my real dad was a musician, a guitarist, and Eric Clapton was one of his people that he sort of jammed with, and then the animals, and Eric Bird and people like that.
	But Eric Clapton, God love him!
	Remember when he came out and said, look, I've had the vaccines and I can't use my, I mean, it's affected how I Who I am as a musician.
	And we haven't heard from Eric Clapton since, because he's been silenced.
	But all these people, you know, the Freds, writer Fred, all heroes in my book, all absolute legends.
	Well, that's the other thing, that if somebody had told me, predicted that, you know, if the ghost of Christmas future had taken me on the journey three years ago and shown me what was coming, And he just said, and the resistance will come from Right Said Fred and footballer Matt LaTissier and, and do you remember Pat Cash?
	Do you remember Pat Cash from the Australian?
	Yeah, I remember Pat Cash.
	Well, he's one of the heroes.
	Yeah.
	And Gillian McKeith.
	Yeah, Gillian McKeith.
	Gillian McKeith, my God, the woman who looked at people's poo and judged it.
	The poo woman, Antony Worrell Thompson.
	This is reassessment time.
	I kind of thought if I had a view on Antony Warhol Thompson, I would have thought a bit of a dick.
	You know, he's not going to be as cool as Marco Pierre White, say.
	But then, lo!
	Marco Pierre White turns out to be a complete twat cuck figure.
	Well Anthony Warhol-Thompson is, and I was thinking to myself, we should have like a massive group outing to Anthony Warhol-Thompson's restaurant as a kind of, as a thank you.
	I would be, Abi, I would be totally up for that.
	We do that?
	I also think... We do that?
	You know what, let's do that.
	I'm planning, do you know there's going to be a thing called Dellingstock?
	There's going to be this event in Herefordshire.
	I'm trying to work out, probably in the summer.
	That's going to be good.
	And that's going to be, it's going to be such a hangout for the resistance.
	I mean, perfect opportunity, I might say, for the Cabal to come and assassinate me and like, I mean, they wanted to drop a daisy cutter bomb, say, oops, it fell out of the sky and killed all these.
	Wiped out, that would be sad.
	But nevertheless, apart from giving the enemy ideas, it will be a great meeting place for... what are we?
	The Enlightened?
	The Chosen?
	The Enlightened, the Resistance, the Chosen Ones, the Awake, the... The Golden Ones!
	The Golden Ones, yes, that'll do.
	The Golden Ones with kind of rubies on their Not on our wings, because that wouldn't work, would it?
	I mean, they'd weigh you down, but... Another way of thinking, practically, about jewel-encrusted... Like a sort of Elvis costume, but they don't wear... You know what Elvis used to wear in the 70s?
	Those white... Yeah.
	This has been, though, hasn't it, one of the... The last two years,
	Has been a period where one has realized everything one believed in is actually untrue and all one's heroes even I'm sorry to say even David Bowie that I've had this conversation a few times with people on our side you know they say well you know come on David Bowie was just experimenting with this now come on I think Black Star was basically the album that somebody who
	Really pretty much given his soul to the devil.
	To the devil.
	It just shows you, doesn't it?
	That's the thing about going back to my husband, seeing death and mortality, is that it does focus your mind on what you want to be remembered for.
	And actually I said to somebody the other day, I said, I don't give a shit if I don't do A thousand people gigs or, you know, I'm lauded.
	I don't really care about all that at the awards.
	Actually, I'd rather be known as someone who said, fuck off.
	I'm not, I'm not doing that.
	Thank you very much.
	But I may not have said that five years ago, five, ten years ago.
	It's all to do with, isn't it, perspective.
	Look I think this has been this has been well I mean that's what apocalypse means doesn't it?
	It means non-availing and we've we we've been blessed with an opportunity to see things as they really are rather than as the as as as the spell weavers have have have fooled us into thinking um this this this world is is a a construct
	And it's really quite exciting discovering, it's like seeing, well it is literally seeing the world new because you think, well Elvis, he wasn't just this kind of rock You know, a handsome young man who was good at singing and later became very fat and war outrageous.
	He was also basically a tool of the of the CIA and the FBI.
	And that all entertainers pretty much act in the service of this This elite, which uses the entertainment industry as a way of deceiving us, of leading us down wrong paths.
	And you don't, you don't even need to be actively an active Satanist, although I think quite a few of them are with their, you know, their 30, their sort of homage to 33rd level degree to masonry and their invocation of all these Satanic, Luciferian tropes.
	I mean, like the guy who's the rapper who, who, who offed, you know, the blood sacrifice rapper, what's his name?
	I mean, just very dodgy that.
	The one who had his set was the mouth of hell.
	Oh, God, yes, I know.
	Exactly.
	That's a warning.
	I mean, tell you what it is, James, is all this strange stuff about it's all in plain sight.
	I mean, it's it's it's you know, when people say, oh, it's just conspiracy or it's just or you're you're you're you're having your delusions.
	It's like, no, I've actually here it is.
	I show them, you know, the whatever it is and, you know, the WF stuff.
	And you just think, well, if I can't do any more but show you.
	So if you're going to choose to ignore it, then that's your problem.
	It is a frustration, isn't it?
	And have you found anything that works?
	Spoiler alert, I really haven't so far.
	Because I think, look, here is the information.
	Just show them, tell them about Event 201.
	Where, in 2019, the whole of the pandemic was war-gamed by the people who are now pushing it, people like Bill Gates and so on.
	And you think, well, this is a piece of evidence so incontrovertible that once exposed to this, once they've seen the truth, people are going to go, wow, I've been so wrong.
	It is clearly a conspiracy.
	But they don't.
	They just go, where did you get this crazy conspiracy idea?
	Event 201.
	Where can I read about this?
	Oh, I see the people talking about this are conspiracy theorists.
	And it would be in the papers and it would be all over the BBC if it were real.
	And you think, well, what do I do?
	Yeah, exactly, what do you do?
	I tell you, I have noticed, and that's a really good point you made, that there are people who I consider reasonably sensible who do a couple in question who do a podcast.
	I won't name names, but you can probably guess who they are, two men in comedy who do a podcast, who I think sometimes people choose to be against theories because of the people that propagate them.
	Yeah.
	It's not really to do with whether the theories are right or wrong.
	They just think, oh, well, Abby and James are saying it, so let's have a pop.
	You would have thought that we weren't really important enough to matter.
	Imagine that.
	Imagine being considered so crazy or hateful or whatever, that people actually adjusted their entire understanding of the world.
	As a reaction to your own views.
	I mean, that, well, I mean, great.
	It's good to have so much power, you know.
	Delingpole the Roberts.
	Changer of world opinions.
	Just spiraling distance.
	Yeah, maybe that.
	I think it comes down actually to more basic things like that.
	I mean, the duo to which you allude, I find it remarkable that they're considered comedians because I've never ever heard either of them say anything funny in the slightest.
	It's like I've driven past funnier road accidents on the motorway.
	I mean, they're just not they're not there.
	But but it's interesting that one of the ones that some somebody did a a brief vidcast about this and they yeah they noted that one of those one of those comedians alleged comedians had having previously declared he would never take the vaccine because it was an experimental Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Then recently confided on one of his one of his shows that actually he was thinking about taking the taking the vaccine.
	And I'm thinking either you could have reached this position having looked at the evidence, all the all the copious evidence that has emerged since you made your anti-vax noise.
	And we now know that these vaccines, which are which which are still in their trial phase till 2023.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Either you'd you'd have discovered this new evidence that that actually none of the sportsmen who've been keeling over with with myocarditis.
	Yes.
	That's got nothing to do with the vaccine.
	And all the blood clots, they're nothing to do with the vaccine.
	Pfizer and Moderna and AstraZeneca are in fact really lovely people who just they just care and they're doing this all for free.
	Yeah yeah.
	Either that's what that might be one explanation or it might be that you want to position your piss poor podcast um it's in the mainstream and and your sponsors or whoever's giving you the money has leaned on you to take this position.
	Gosh I wonder which one it could be.
	I wonder which one it could be exactly it's like, it's like, I always, I'm very suspicious of people who go in the opposite direction.
	Suddenly from the one that they've been, you know, the course they've been going down.
	I mean, I watched that, you know, I watched the thing in question.
	I mean, I actually got slagged off.
	I wasn't named, but one of the alleged comedians did allude to me, you know, slagged me off.
	And I was, I happened to be watching them.
	So I commented, I think there's a, hi boys.
	And that actually got more attention than their podcast did.
	So that's nice.
	It was classic, James, it was classic.
	Yeah it was good it's like good god I mean but these people they they're the ones that are gonna have to live with their consciences not not not us.
	Yes.
	So good luck with those people.
	Um I I've had a I I'm always curious about being a being a comic because like sometimes I I can be mildly funny but but the idea of I I've had a couple of bad speaker events where I've died, like a comic dies.
	I know what it's like to die.
	It's really, really horrible.
	How much of this stuff would you say is being funny?
	Genuinely naturally funny how much of it is is material and how much of it is I don't know a sort of an extraordinary self-confidence and ability to to hold an audience that just like persona I suppose.
	Yeah, persona.
	I would say, and my husband was taught me well in that respect, he said everything's about the first five seconds, three seconds even, when you walk out.
	You walk out and if you show any sort of, oh god, you know, maybe I've forgotten, then that's it, the audience will, you know, because audiences are smart and they all think as one.
	And the other thing he said was, you have to get, grab them, all of them, from the beginning.
	It's no good sort of going, hello everyone, and then like picking somebody in the front row because then you've got like 250 other people going, what about us?
	There are things, and then I would say, for me personally, I find naturally funny people, the best comedians, people sort of in real life, who you could laugh with.
	And I know American comics, I think that, like Gary Shandling was naturally very funny.
	Eddie Murphy is, so people that you, have got funny bones they're the ones who are you know usually the the best comics in it is in my in my experience i was listening to a friend sent me an eddie murphy show from the 1980s and it was about it was about it was so i hate to use the word homophobic because it because that that and it's like islamophobic it's like it's like it's one of those racist
	it's like one of those words that that they've invented in order to shut down any form of of edgy speech um Yeah.
	But his whole sketch was was was
	was based around the horror of having sex with sex with another man and and I think yeah the world has changed so much and it's not yeah I don't think it's been this I don't think this has been an organic process I don't I don't believe for one second that where we are now is a natural product of of our growing enlightenment and our sort of progression towards liberal values I think all this has been
	It has been orchestrated, arranged from above, everything from, have you, did you ever come across that, the letter that somebody, an A&R man wrote describing his experiences in the 80s in LA, I think it was, where he'd been called to this meeting.
	And they didn't, they didn't know what it was about.
	Various A&Rs from all the record companies were invited to this meeting.
	And this man, this mysterious man that maybe two men came along and he said, look, this is the deal.
	We are going to invent this new genre.
	It was the genre that became gangster rap.
	And it's.
	Yes.
	It's going to be really good because at the same time we're investing in prisons and there's going to be a massive uptake in the prisons are going to be overwhelmed because we're going to generate this this tension and if anyone feels as comfortable as they can go now anyway the guy the guy who who wrote the letter left at that point but we we we think that that that the the entertainment industry is just a kind of A natural creative response to the times we live in.
	It's not.
	Everything is shaped.
	Our experiences are curated for us by these puppeteers.
	Yeah, and you know something, you've just reminded me of a line.
	I was re-watching Sex and the City because I was feeling in a particularly girly mood because it was actually quite good back when they wrote it.
	And one of the lines, you know when she's, I don't know if you know Sex and the City?
	Have you ever watched TV?
	No, girl thing.
	No man watches that.
	Worth his salt!
	Basically she, towards the end, she goes out with Mikhail Baryshnikov, so that obviously he has a Alexander Petrovsky as his character name, and they're going out on a date.
	I was watching this the other day and I literally had to pause it because the bit of dialogue he's saying to her, oh I'm going to take you somewhere exotic tonight, and she says, and this is back in 2003 I think, she says, Oh, and you'll be glad to hear I'm fully vaccinated.
	And I just went... Because it was... It sort of came out of the blue.
	I've been fully vaccinated.
	Why would you say that if someone's, you know, going to take... It struck a bit of a chord with me.
	And I thought, maybe Americans have always been Actually, fucking weird when it comes to state, you know, control.
	It's that, it's that industry.
	And, and it, look, it's, um, they do, they, they seed ideas.
	They tell us, I keep mentioning this, but I think it's never worth forgetting.
	It is, it is the vampire that needs your permission before it crosses your threshold.
	The vampire cannot come into your house unless it gives you permission.
	And there's a, there's a, there's a guy called, I don't know how you pronounce his name.
	And I'm going to upset all the Norwegian viewers, which I'm sure I have many.
	It's Ola Damagur or anyway.
	He is, he's a, he's a, I suppose he would be described as a conspiracy theorist.
	He's very, he's particularly good on false flag attacks and he's had, he has been, had great success predicting these operations because he knows their modus operandi and he knows that they flag things.
	And this would make no sense to us.
	Why would they be telling us?
	Why would they be warning us through these signs like I'm fully vaxxed in a popular TV series?
	And the reason is that just as you and I and many of our followers are Christians, most of these people are working for the other side.
	They're working for the dark side.
	They are Luciferians.
	They are Satanists.
	And we think of Satanists as having no morality, but that's just not true.
	They're just kind of the inverse of the forces that we support.
	And they too have, bizarrely, a moral code.
	And the moral code in their case is they're very obsessed with dates and numbers and doing things at auspicious times, but they're also obsessed with karma.
	And they feel that if they tell us what they're going to do to us,
	and we accede to what they've they've planned for us then we are complicit in our own destruction and therefore they have no moral um they needn't feel guilty there's going to be no karmic payback because after all they warned us they told us what they're going to do and therefore yeah it's all okay yeah
	It's all okay because they've given us little signals, little kind of flashes of the code, which only they really understand.
	Yeah.
	Here's the thing I really don't get.
	I'm really happy.
	To have chosen the light side.
	I just think, look, that I say Psalms every day because they ward off demons, particularly the 23rd Psalm.
	They get rid of the demons and demons are real, as you probably know.
	And if you don't, well, spoiler alert, they do.
	I think that God is truth, God is beauty, God is mercy.
	Have you come across Proverbs 3?
	Honestly, I'm not good on my Bible.
	You have to remind me.
	I'm going to have to, like, you know, do some revision on my Bible.
	Shame on me.
	Sorry.
	Well, it's... I'm trying to think why I mentioned this one.
	It just gives you precepts about how to live your life.
	And it says, basically, trust in the Lord with all thine heart.
	And lean not, lean not unto thine own understanding.
	And if you, like, I mean, it's not stopping me smoking a reefer.
	It's not stopping me, you know, having sex with the wife.
	I think it doesn't, it doesn't encourage you to go and shag around the Bible, I've noticed.
	But, but most of the things that I don't think that it's that onerous a religion, okay?
	So you have to behave well, you have to treat people, you know, do as you would be done by.
	Love thy neighbor as thyself.
	What is wrong with that?
	There's nothing wrong with that.
	It's absolutely how we should live our lives.
	I'm not thinking, oh God, I don't see why I should be nice to my bastard neighbor.
	I don't see why I should treat people right because I'm me and I'm king.
	No, it seems to be absolutely a textbook for a better world.
	And if everyone behaved like that, if everyone treated people as they wish to be treated themselves, Imagine we'd have no central bankers, we'd have no Gary Lineker, we'd have no Piers Morgan.
	All these people, they'd just be defanged.
	They would have no relevance to anything because they wouldn't be empowered by a system which encourages people to behave badly.
	Yeah, it's so true.
	Sorry, carry on.
	You carry on.
	I've ranted enough.
	I said to my nephew the other day, and I've got three wonderful nephews, one who's just got a scholarship into Durham School, and he's lovely, Zach, his name is, but he was saying to me, oh, so famous people, you know, they're the most important, he said something like they're the most important, or it may be my younger nephew actually said that, but there was a discussion about fame and sort of Money and all that.
	And I said, I said to them, I said, you know, you know, the most wonderful person I met, the most famous person I met who left a legacy, left an imprint on having met him.
	And they were like, oh, who is it?
	Is it a famous pop star?
	I said, no, it was Chad Vara, who I met in his 80s before he died.
	You know, the founder of the Samaritans.
	Yeah.
	He was in his wheelchair and he was the most gracious, wonderful man who didn't make me feel at all sort of like oh you're meeting someone really and it stayed with me and I think that kind of quality is... I remember people who... Lawrence Fox's dad has that as well.
	You know when you meet him and you... isn't he wonderful?
	You meet him and he makes you feel like the most important person in the room.
	Yeah.
	But it's not because, you know, there's no fakery about it.
	There's no sort of like, oh look at me, I'm so wonderful, I'm going to bestow, you know, my importance on you.
	It's quite literally because they're interested in what you've got to say.
	Yes, yes.
	And I think that's a very attractive quality which a lot of um showbiz people don't don't have.
	No no well that that's because um they they've no no hang on oh that the phone's dead anyway that's that that phone's dead um with luck with luck my son will oh no no it started it started the entertainer it's become So it drives, it drives some of the, it drives some of the listeners mad.
	Um, because.
	I like the dogs in the background though.
	You have dogs, you have dogs.
	There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a cat that occasionally appears.
	I think, I think it's all, it's all good.
	Yeah.
	No, what I was saying, I would like to get James Fox on the podcast sometime because he's really, he's really wise and he's, because he's seen it from both sides.
	He's, he's, I mean, if you've been with Mick Jagger, Who is about as satanic as they get in entertainment terms in performance.
	Yeah.
	And you did.
	Who was the guy who directed performance?
	He was another.
	He killed himself in a really horrible way.
	Sort of satanic.
	Anyway.
	Yeah.
	James Fox helped me understand something really important about the nature of this world.
	And it is, it's really useful, even if you don't understand it on a Christian level, although I think Christianity is the best way of understanding this, I think it just gives you insight into how the world really works.
	And I said to him, At one of the marches, one of the marches where I met you, which was, which was, it was great.
	We've just had, haven't we just met some fantastic people?
	Yes, really great.
	So, so there was, there was James Fox with it, clutching his Bible to his chest, which again, three years ago, I thought, who is this, this, this weirdo, this weird God botherer?
	Why is he doing this crazy shit?
	Not anymore.
	Yeah.
	I said to him, look, when you were a leading star of the British movie scene, did you ever come across any of these sort of like satanic influences?
	You know, did you see the dark side?
	He said, look, it's not like that.
	It's not just the entertainment industry.
	It is the world.
	The world is the realm of the Prince of Lies.
	And Everywhere, whatever profession you might end up in, there are these temptations to sell your soul in different ways.
	You know, if you're a banker it might be creating collateralized debt obligations and repackaging junk junk and selling it on to gullible customers, even though what you're selling is a turd dipped in Rolled in glitter, that's all you're doing.
	Why would a banker get paid for that?
	You'd have to question the morality of it.
	Or in the music industry, it's that there are all these temptations which are put in your path.
	And the reward for these temptations, for acceding to these temptations, is money, sex, and power.
	And these are superficially very seductive things, and this is how the world works.
	We are in the realm of Satan.
	You can see why people are tempted by them superficially.
	At the same time, I still find it hard to think why any mature thinking person would not be able not be capable of seeing beyond that and going well hang on a second that that wisdom is more important that that being honest is more important that treating people well is that that's where that's where you you feel good love beauty truth yeah yes yes
	Yeah, and isn't it, isn't it, who said telling the truth is a revolutionary act?
	Oh, well, he didn't say that.
	Orwell's supposed to say that in times of universe.
	It's one of those fake quotes you see on the internet.
	In times of times of universal deceit, truth telling is a revolutionary act.
	I mean, it's a good quote.
	I don't know why they had to attribute it to Orwell.
	But anyway, yes, it's good.
	Regardless of who said it, to me, I think what's interesting is you've hit the nail on the head that all these things that people are, you know, the money, sex, power, all the stuff, show business, is sort of ephemeral.
	It's of this life.
	And that, again, we're back full circle to seeing the bigger picture that you and I are seeing further down the road.
	What's beyond this life?
	And it won't be money, sex and power.
	It'll be, you know, redemption, glory, love, peace, tranquility, all those things.
	So actually the people in showbiz, people that, you know, the conformists are unoriginal.
	They're just, they're not originals.
	And maybe they're happy with that.
	I wouldn't be.
	Well, it's a kind of, It's a false happiness, isn't it?
	I mean, the buzz you get from doing some Charlie, even if it's really good Charlie, you just talk shit for a long time and then you want another line.
	Yeah, oh don't get me wrong, I've partied, I mean, hard, you know, drugs, sex, everything, and I'm glad I did, but there are some people who think that that's it, that that's the, you know what I mean, that's the be-all and end-all, and they don't look beyond it, you know, to the great uplands.
	Well, exactly, I mean, it's not just That truth and beauty and these things are manifestations of God, but that things like mastering a skill.
	I mean, I've had so much satisfaction out of getting better at riding a horse.
	I was just this morning, I was just seeing off my daughter to university and she finds it very frustrating, you know, having to do academic stuff.
	I mean she's she's she's very bright but she's splintered of pain but that day she'd had a breakthrough in a thesis that she's writing about Nancy Mitford and architecture and and she'd been she'd been agonizing for a whole day over this this this thing and she couldn't find any evidence to support it and then suddenly she'd found this book which had given her the the thing that now the joy she got out of that you know she didn't she didn't
	Do a bump of cat.
	She didn't.
	It wasn't about about sex, but I'm sure that the satisfaction she got was was deep and enduring.
	And yes.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	I can totally, no, I can totally get that.
	There's that sort of personal, there's that real, yeah, personal satisfaction of, you know, that other people won't, you know, someone else wouldn't understand.
	Well, if something hard won.
	In fact, look, I've just got to look up, because there's so much, there are so many truth bombs in this.
	I'm just going to look up Proverbs.
	No, Proverbs, Proverbs 3.
	Proverbs 3, yes.
	So, I mean, where do you, what, tell me, how do you, how do you, um, express your, your Christianity?
	Do you, I mean, do you, do you go to church or do you, um?
	No, I'm, I'm not a churchgoer.
	Um, I probably should do more, but I, you know, I, you know, when I hear myself say that, I think, oh, don't talk bollocks.
	My, I'm old enough now to, to, to be truthful.
	My Christianity is, is in everyday small, small acts.
	Yeah.
	But I don't make a record of it and go tick that off.
	It's just when I feel good within myself, I think, yeah, you're on the right lines.
	The line after the one about trusting the Lord with all one's heart is, in all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths.
	And it's true.
	The more you think about this stuff, The more it becomes becomes part of you and Because I believe, I believe in the supernatural.
	I mean, I believe in, I believe that God is real.
	He's not, he's not a kind of a construct that man invented to, to just justify the fact that he's going to die and to try and, you know, he's invented this phantom.
	No, rubbish.
	That is, that's the, the atheist or agnostic line.
	And it's just not true.
	He's real.
	It's, it, you know, it's absolutely, this stuff is real.
	Yeah, and you just reminded me, with The Truth and Beauty, when my husband died, Roger Scruton videos on YouTube kept me sane.
	He's the other person.
	If he was alive, I would go up to him and I would hug him and smother him in kisses and say, thank God for you.
	Because there was one, this was two days after my husband, you know, he was sort of Whatever, he passed.
	And it's Roger Scruton, I think, in the 70s, maybe, yeah, 70s, talking about eternal life.
	And honestly, I found that and I played it over and over and over again.
	So he, Roger won't obviously know this, but well, maybe he does, but he, just watching that, again, rescued me.
	But I think also, the other thing about faith is looking for signs and ignore them at your peril.
	So if something was telling me to look for that, and when you find it, you'll be saved.
	But if you don't look for it, then You know, you'll be in darkness.
	Yeah, yeah.
	It's definitely better to be in the light.
	I wanted to read you, because it's so good this, I mean, everyone should learn Proverbs 3.
	It's about 35 lines, and I'm about 10 lines into it, but okay.
	So he says, Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
	For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
	She is more precious than rubies, and all the things that thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
	Length of days is her right hand and in her left hand riches and honor.
	Her ways are ways of pleasantness and all her paths are peace.
	Um and it just it's very it makes a very seductive case I think for for the getting of wisdom and understanding and and for living a righteous life.
	I mean look I don't I don't want this to be a hostage to fortune.
	If suddenly I find myself having an affair with Who do I fancy?
	Like they're all some somebody amazing and and in Hollywood and uh you know I don't want people going saying yeah look at you you hypocrite you lie but yeah I mean I'm I'm flawed but.
	Kate Beckinsale.
	Kate Beckinsale exactly yeah Kate Beckinsale but but as a as a as a way of living your life this stuff is is is I think the Bible is a very good rule book.
	I mean, there's weird stuff.
	I'm reading the Old Testament at the moment, and some of it is just really, really weird.
	And there's no question the Old Testament God is a bit of a bastard at times.
	And the children of Israel, because they're his chosen ones, they get to slaughter They move into an area and just wipe everyone out.
	And you're thinking, hang on a second, this doesn't really accord with the turning the other cheek Jesus of the, you know, the New Testament.
	And yet he's a manifestation of the God doing all this.
	So there are bits that puzzle me.
	But yeah.
	Yes.
	For the bits that count.
	Proverbs 3, right, I'm going to make a note of that so I don't forget it.
	I tell you, I'm just talking about faith and looking for signs, which I did after my husband had passed, which I know people go, oh that's a bit sad.
	No, did he come and speak to you?
	Oh yes, oh God, oh yeah, very definitely.
	Cayman, you know, Cayman spoke to me, but also he sends people to, but only if you're ready to welcome them in, he sends people to sort of comfort you, but you only know that, you'll only get comforted by them if you welcome them in.
	If you sort of ignore the fact, like I was, um, I was in, um, Barbados.
	So it sounds like I, sounds like I literally went on lots of holidays.
	Your, your glorious life, Abby.
	Yeah.
	You know what?
	I, I was just going to Barbados, everyone going, Jesus, that, um, I, um, yeah.
	So I, um, just, just, just a last minute kind of Christmas thing.
	I literally went, I can't be in this country.
	It's so dark.
	It's so horrible, quick.
	Get me to a place where I might get stoned and just, you know, I might forget about things.
	So I went to, anyway got a last minute thing, was walking around a church, walked past a church near the hotel, walked into the church, and I was literally wearing my hat and sort of my dark glasses, and it was, and there was a guide called George, old black guy, must be in his maybe late 60s, showing everyone around.
	And he noticed me and he came over and he said, oh, are you OK?
	And anyway, I sort of burst into tears.
	And then me and George, he took me by the hand and I told him about Terry.
	And he said, he said, you know, try and stay afloat because your husband wouldn't want you to go under.
	And he sort of held my arm to me like this and I was like, oh my god.
	And then we were walking a bit further and I said, because my husband was a Geordie, for anyone listening, that would mean from Newcastle.
	Newcastle, are it?
	And so we lived in Durham for a long time and Terry taught at the university for a bit.
	Anyway, I'm telling George this about Newcastle and then George, this man that I've met, you know, in the middle of nowhere in Barbados, says, My son teaches at Durham University.
	And George, for fuck's sake, I didn't say for fuck's sake, George, and he literally, and you know what though?
	Shamefully, I thought, maybe he's a con artist.
	Because that's awful, isn't it?
	That was my Western, my sort of instinct was, maybe he's a con artist.
	Went back to the hotel, googled his name, the name of the son, and it was true.
	He appeared.
	George's son at Durham University, teaching.
	So that was me.
	I didn't have to go to the church.
	I didn't have to speak to George.
	I could have walked away, but I didn't.
	And there's a lesson in there.
	Totally, totally.
	I think that God sends these angels, they're like sort of way markers in your life.
	And you have these experiences but you've got to be open to them, you've got to be humble.
	And uh yeah it was like I was I was driving along the other about three two years ago I was driving along and uh there was a sort of woman um you know like a vagrant or something wandering along the road and I I gave her a lift and talked to her and stuff and There was something about it.
	Afterwards, I thought that was a very strange experience.
	And you just wonder whether these people are just kind of like that.
	They're there to test you and to sort of teach you, I think.
	Yeah.
	And also, I mean, I think people don't get this about that.
	I went to a school where you were For 10 years of my education, I went to chapel, as we called it, every day and twice on Sundays.
	But there was never really any emphasis of the things that I find most exciting about Christianity, which is that The supernatural element, the numinous, the mystery of it, which is why I'm quite envious of your orthodox experience, because I think that of all the churches, probably the orthodox church is most in touch with the kind of the mystical.
	I think that stuff's been played down, but look, Miracles are real.
	They're signs.
	If we didn't have these signs and portents and wonders, I'm not sure that it would be quite so exciting.
	We are, after all, human.
	We're not, you know, we're not endlessly, endlessly patient, endlessly so trusting that we're not going to believe in this stuff without the odd little helper.
	But that's great, isn't it?
	That's part of the excitement of it.
	Yes, exactly.
	Part of the excitement and part of the, part of And the people that I've met in my life, the most interesting ones are the ones who are open to that, to something beyond who we are.
	If you're closed off to that, I think it must be, well, you know, what's the point of life if you're not constantly with your eyes open?
	Um you know because we're only here aren't we for a very well unless well I mean obviously eternal life it's sort of not counting eternal life but I mean in this span we're only here for what sort of 60 uh 60 or 70 years.
	Man is like a vanity his days are as a shadow that passes away.
	Yes.
	Shame.
	You're putting me to shame.
	No, no, no, no.
	I've got to I've got to use this stuff.
	I've got to I've got to show off occasionally.
	It's just like it's you know what?
	It's a bit like if I were to just to suddenly get into football and I I am a man of enthusiasms.
	I like, you know, if I'm if I'm into if I get into horses, I really want to be on a horse all the time.
	If I get into Stampleton.
	Did you always ride?
	Did you always ride horses?
	No, I, well, ish.
	I went, funnily enough, I went, I had riding lessons at my prep school in order to get out of football.
	Yeah.
	Because I had no, I had no ball skills because I came from a family where I didn't have one of those dads that kicks a football around with you.
	He just wasn't interested in that kind of thing.
	So I was, I started with a huge disadvantage.
	I was crap at sport.
	And so any excuse to get out of football.
	So I went and, you know, shivered instead on a horse and got bumped up and down, you know, and that wasn't much fun either.
	It's only later on when I, yeah, only when you get, I think this is true for a lot of men, that we don't like being not good at stuff.
	And you're only interested in stuff when you get good at it.
	And now I can sit astride a horse and feel confident that I can, I have the skills to, you know, to make it go right where I want it to go and more or less.
	And sometimes it will jump and I won't fall off and that kind of thing.
	Yeah.
	I had, back in my past, I loved riding horses, and that's one of my aims, is to lose enough weight so that when I approach a horse it doesn't look fucking terrified that I'm going to get on top, because I genuinely loved riding.
	I absolutely adored it, riding horses.
	I've got many good memories.
	There's something that they say they break your bones they break your heart I just the first thing I do when I get going to the stable with my with the horse that I ride is I I give him a hug and I sniff his I sniff his his skin you know his fur because I love that horsey smell and I love that Oh, that lovely velvety, velvety.
	Well, if they've been clipped for hunting, that's what they look like.
	The other one, mine's quite shaggy and speckled with mud because he's an Irish draft and he's just like, rolls it like it's rolling around in the mud and he's a, yeah.
	But, but yeah, they're eyes, they're big eyes and they look at you.
	They're strong silent types, aren't they?
	Yes, they're wise.
	They've seen, I mean, there's an evolutionary Miracles of evolution.
	Those eyes, yes, have seen a lot, haven't they?
	They have.
	And there is a very strong connection between man and horse.
	So I went metal detecting.
	That's another of my hobbies.
	And I only stopped because I got tennis elbow.
	But I found these Celtic coins.
	Uh so over 2000 years old and they on one side they had a picture of a horse because horses really mattered to the ancient Britons and I've often thought if horses didn't exist you would you would marvel at the notion of such a creature that this this thing which is
	It's enormously powerful, and yet somehow it permits you to harvest its energies and to be able to work with it as one, and to become a centaur, to become united with this animal, which not only does your bidding, but also watches out for you.
	There's an extraordinary relationship you have.
	Get off on the same things that you do.
	Horses like, what do I like doing on a horse?
	I like going really fast.
	I like jumping over fences.
	And I like being with other people on horses, just doing it together and like racing across countryside and stuff in fancy clothes.
	And weirdly enough, this is what horses like doing more than anything else too.
	They love it.
	They absolutely love it.
	And how cool is that?
	So you, you become at one with this creature.
	Yes.
	He's a friend and yet it's, you know, yeah, it's amazing.
	We can be like, I feel that about dogs as well, but dogs, I mean, we, I grew up with them, two Lakeland terriers.
	I don't know if you know Lakeland, they're black and tan, they've got those sort of bushy, Bottoms and Joppy the names were, in fact they came in with Margaret Thatcher and then they left with Tony Blair.
	That was their legacy.
	A group to play was enough.
	A group to play was enough.
	They'd check out.
	Yeah, they'd check out at the right time.
	And they were wonderful.
	I mean, just wonderful memories of growing up with them and how they understood.
	Mine was Buttons, who was the slightly chubby, very cute one that used to watch television while I was lying watching telly.
	He used to lie on my back.
	sort of watching over my shoulder and um and they were twin brothers and they knew exactly I mean just had amazing connection um so they're yeah so I'm I'm a big I'm not a huge I don't mind cats but I mean they're not my go-to.
	You know why you don't there's a there's a an element missing in your education you've never had a British blue British short hair.
	Oh.
	Once you've had a British short hair you will you will become a cat person.
	I mean, in addition to your dog person and your horse person, you're just... And a horse person.
	We had a Siamese, black and white Susan.
	Yeah, yeah, she was lovely.
	But it's like, yeah, maybe I do need to, I mean, I suppose it's just, I like the idea of, you know, that when you look over a dog, you know how they sort of, when they're lying, and they almost look human, when they're sort of lying on the sofa looking at you.
	And I love that, that sort of slightly human thing that dogs have.
	So dogs it's it's clear have evolved these techniques over the through the ages they've they've they form this bond with man and a lot of their gestures are designed to make you think that they are in fact human and they're like you so the way that my dog looks at me something you know sort of sort of um Almost flirtatiously, you know, aren't I, aren't I beautiful?
	How could you not love me?
	I'm the most beautiful pet you ever saw, you know, and, and it's, it's, it's hard not to kind of, you know, give a, give her a stroke or whatever, which is what they, they want their tummies tickled and they want to be taken on walks and stuff.
	And actually a walk is improved with a dog, isn't it?
	It's just great.
	You kind of.
	Part of you is on two feet, and part of you is a head snuffling around in the undergrowth with your dogs.
	They have such pleasure in it, and they're very forgiving.
	Yeah, very, very.
	And what kind of dog are you?
	Spaniel.
	Spaniel.
	Oh, lovely.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I love, I mean, where I am at the moment, I mean, I'm renting in London for various reasons.
	Yeah, I can't have a dog here, I can't have a pet, so I would like to at some stage, yeah, get back to my pet, my pet stuff, because it's just weird not having something, not having them around, you know, hearing the little snuffling, the snuffling sound, you know.
	By the way, I wanted to ask you, but this is impertinent and personal, but No, not at all.
	You've lost Terry.
	Yeah.
	I can't imagine, you know, it may well be that my wife ends up, you know, getting rid of me for being kind of complete fruitcake loon, but One when you've got you're with somebody you love and you and you and you've been with it for a long time.
	Yeah.
	And everything like I'm not sure I could survive without without my wife.
	How do you what's it like being single and at our age kind of thing?
	Well, it's really fucking weird.
	I mean, it was... I... Do you know what's odd?
	Actually, someone the other day said, well, it's been three years, Abs, you know, maybe it's time to kind of move on.
	I'm like, oh my God.
	You know something?
	I was... I mean, it's...
	Don't get me wrong, it's not that I haven't had male, you know, people making advances, my darling, for me, which is very nice, which is very flattering, but it's the It's the idea, it's really odd, it's the idea that then they'd have to, I mean, put it this way, Terry would always be sort of, there'd be three of us in this marriage, it would be me, the person, and then Terry would be sort of, you know.
	Yeah, it'd be like Randall and Hopkirk deceased.
	Yes.
	Yeah, exactly.
	It's like, oh, and who's this?
	Oh, this is my, you know, my late husband.
	And Terry was such a big part of my, you know, who I am.
	Obviously being, managing me and going on the road to gigs, you know, huge part of me.
	And I think it is one of those weird things where, you know, maybe one day I'll sort of, I'll get back in the saddle.
	That's, that's a very polite way of saying it.
	Well, maybe, maybe Terry will give you some kind of signal.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, I think he, yeah, I think, you know what I was saying to, you know, lovely Neil Oliver.
	He's so, he's so wonderful.
	Oh God, what a man.
	Oh God What a man I Very kind Very His senses When things are You know Not Not quite Not You know You're not feeling Of yourself But I tweeted that the black dog, you know, a black dog called Grief had sometimes knocks at my door.
	You know, I let him in and I say, I give him some kibble and show him his bed.
	But I know that he can only visit because it would be too painful for him to stay.
	So I tweeted that.
	And the amount of response I got, and I just thought, It's funny because grief is, um, you know, you forget that sometimes when you express something like that, there are lots of people who go, Oh God, that's, yes, that's exactly it.
	Grief is beautiful.
	It's a beautiful black dog and you sort of love him and you, you, you kiss him and you sort of cuddle him, but you know that it's impossible to live for him to Be there all the time.
	Yeah.
	So that's the way I look at it.
	But it's odd, James, when I don't know if you've lost someone very close to you, but I'm visited by it and it's like I'm punched in the face because I don't really see it coming.
	I'm sort of doing something and then go... and it's like it's all enveloping.
	And then, but then he'll, then the black dog will, you know, then he'll sort of show himself out.
	And then, you know, visit again.
	And I think the secret is, I suppose, for me, again, maybe this is a faith thing as well, is that he's, it's okay to let him, it's okay for him to be around, you know, however painful it is, but he can't stay.
	Also, there is that ultimate, consolation that we have, which is that, like, we know that there is an afterlife and we know that it's better than this world.
	And I used to, before I, you know, I was a cultural Christian, you know, C of E and church, Christmas and Easter and so on.
	The only thing that's changed is I now believe all this crazy shit is real.
	And I'd always wondered about, for example, why it's so important to Catholics to get the last rites and why people are... a bit like I used to wonder when I read Antigone at school, why Antigone was so obsessed with burying her Her brother, and why, you know, why didn't she just surrender to Creon?
	Yeah.
	And why people make such a big deal of this stuff.
	But now I think, actually, it really matters.
	And that people who just see this earthly life as a kind of transitory thing, and that the afterlife is better, and that if you die, it's kind of no biggie.
	They're right.
	You know Terry is in a better place.
	I'm sorry though.
	It's a bummer for you.
	It's a bummer for me, although he is present with me all the time.
	I mean, he's, you know, I have conversations with him all the time about things.
	And actually, he, you know, doing something very boring the other day, like my tax.
	I actually, he was sitting next to me.
	I mean, he was, and I, and he guides me.
	There's no doubt, there's no question that I've made decisions.
	That is noble.
	Because I've been there.
	Doing your taxes, that is beyond the call of duty.
	He did my taxes for me!
	But you know, in the days gone by before I met Terry, I would have been all, you know, none of that sort of, Certainty about, well, you know, sort of knowing that I had tools myself.
	So Terry has given me that as well.
	Definitely, you know, so from that point of view, he'll never leave me because it's, you know, I'm a changed person.
	I'm gutted I never got to meet him, Abby.
	Oh yeah, you would have loved him!
	Yeah, and he was a proper libertarian, I mean proper libertarian, all this stuff.
	I mean, do you know what, when I, he, I think I may have told you on the march, he used to work for, he did comms, communications for New Labour, you know, when they were when they were bloody building the Millennium Dome.
	God, that was a, that was an experience and a half.
	But then he left the Labour Party because, well, he wasn't really on the left anyway, to be fair, but he left the Labour Party and then because of the anti-Semitism, even back in, you know, as a 1998, sorry, 2000 and 2001.
	But he, we used to have long discussions about common purpose, about climate change, about all the stuff.
	All the stuff.
	Yeah, so everything that he kind of told me, I was like, oh my god, you were right!
	He thought America was much further left than people used to think it was.
	He said, oh no, America's gone way, you know, far left.
	So all the stuff that Terry said, God bless you darling, you were spot on about all of it.
	Yeah, he was.
	Abi, I could talk to you for hours, but I need to pee and I'm sensing that my wife's going to get back soon and she's going to wonder why I haven't done anything about the mess in the kitchen and stuff.
	Yes, I think you should definitely do that.
	Sometimes you get pissed off if we leave a mess.
	Yeah, actually, do you know what?
	With me and Terry, it was the other way around.
	What was it?
	Oh God, he was the cook.
	He was the better cook, which I think men are generally.
	Oh yeah, he was constantly saying, you know, what's this mess doing?
	Love him.
	Do you know what?
	It's been such a pleasure to speak to you and to see the, as Lawrence described, the kind eyes.
	Oh yeah, I've got, I've got eyes like a horse, like a, like a, like a, yeah, yeah.
	It's, it's.
	Very, very, very wise, wise eyes.
	Wise eyes, yeah.
	Well, Abi, I've absolutely loved this and I've got no doubt that, that everyone's going to love it.
	Is there anything you want to plug that you're doing or?
	Um, I'm, I'm, well, I'm with Neil Oliver this coming Saturday on his GB News show.
	Um, but also I've just recorded earlier today, um, my first The Abbey Roberts Show, which is me venting, ranting.
	Oh, good.
	Um, I've got cunt of the week.
	Um, so you might have to blur that bit out.
	That's going to upset the people who've been lured in by the God talk and thinking, these are good questions.
	Yes, sorry everyone.
	Oh my god, yes, I'm very sorry everyone.
	I am a Christian but I'm also very vulgar.
	I'm not sure.
	Does that count as blaspheming though or not?
	One shouldn't take the name of the Lord in vain but I'm not sure.
	I don't know where he is on the scene.
	I think he's, there's me speaking for God, I don't know but I think he'd probably be okay with it.
	Not in church I would have thought but No, probably not when you're in front of an icon.
	That's not a very good, very good way to go.
	But that, that would be great if people, and on Twitter, I'm obviously at Abbey Roberts and well, you know, because we, well, we're always on.
	So where do they find your, your first show?
	The first show, it'll be on YouTube, first of all, until I'm kicked off.
	But then obviously I'll post bits of it onto it, you know what I mean?
	So you'll be able to find it.
	It's YouTube first off.
	And that's pretty much it at the moment.
	Yeah, and I'll be on the march on Saturday.
	Oh, right.
	I don't know if I'd get a leave pass for that or not.
	I'd love to go on the march, but it sort of causes ructions at home.
	Yeah, but we'll have to do the, we'll do the dinner.
	We'll do the supper at Ashley Warhol Thompson's at some stage.
	Yeah.
	Good thinking um and uh everyone thank you very much for listening to the to the show and um don't forget you can support me on on Subscribestar um and uh also I've got a website dellingpoleworld.com where you can buy a special friend badge and and things like that um
	Do please give me support if you can because it's a lonely place, this new world where we're trying to make a living out of when big tech is trying to censor us.
	So help me keep the ship afloat.
	And Abby, thank you so much again.
	That was really fun.
	I really enjoyed it.
	Pleasure.
	We'll have another chat sometime soon, I hope.
	God bless you, James.
	Good.
	Take care of yourself, my love.
	Yeah, and you.

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