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Jan. 19, 2022 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole

01:17:07

Matt Le Tissier

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	Welcome to the Deling Pod with me, James Deling-Pole.
	And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but actually look who I've got.
	I've landed a big fish.
	I've got Matt Letissier.
	Matt, welcome.
	Thanks, James.
	Lovely to be here.
	Now, Matt, I've got to admit that of all the people who've ever conversed with you, I reckon I am the most ignorant about football.
	But probably... I'd be surprised.
	Probably there's going to be some American viewers, for example, who don't know.
	They think football is the game you play with a sort of rugger ball shaped thing and, you know, you wear So let's put you in context first of all.
	I mean, you played for England, didn't you, a few times?
	I did.
	I did.
	I played eight times for England.
	I spent my whole career at Southampton Football Club from 1985 when I joined as a youth training scheme all the way through to 2002 when I retired at the age of 33.
	Right.
	And I asked a friend who knows a bit more about football than I do, what you were like.
	And he said, oh, Matt Leticier.
	Yeah, he was a kind of.
	Now, I'd love it if somebody called me this, but is it true?
	He said he's a maverick genius.
	He said, you know, when he when he was good, he was just like totally amazing.
	And it just depended on what his what he was feeling like.
	Is that you?
	That sounds about right, yeah.
	I'd quite happily take the Maverick Genius accolade and be very proud of it.
	Yeah.
	I should have done my research.
	Where in the pitch did you play?
	So, I was an attacking player.
	So, I played a lot of my career either on the right side of midfield or the left side of midfield or as a number 10 type figure playing off of a centre forward.
	So, everything that I did, everything I was good at was going forward.
	Asked me to defend, I was absolutely hopeless.
	Right, right.
	I see.
	So, does that mean you sort of scored goals or you set up the goals?
	Yes, those two things were the two things I was best at on the football pitch.
	I had a goal-scoring record of scoring 209 goals in 540 games and also probably setting up about half that amount as well.
	That's more than I've done, definitely, in my career, I can tell you.
	And before we move on to the serious stuff, I mean, apart from being a rock star, or actually some people would prefer being a footballer to being a rock star, being a footballer, an England football player, is what most boys, I would say, dream of in this.
	I mean, tell me what it's like.
	Is it I mean, you're paid outrageous sums of money at a very young age.
	Does that kind of not ruin you for life?
	Okay, well, you say that.
	We have to now put this into context of when I played my career.
	So the first professional contract that I signed in 1986, I was on £100 a week.
	And through my career all the way to 2002, the most my weekly wage ever rose to during that period of time was just under £4,000 a week.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So it's not quite a huge amount of money that the guys today are getting paid.
	It was a very nice wage, don't get me wrong, in my day, it was certainly above the average.
	Yeah.
	Huge amounts of money as a young kid to spoil me.
	So I was quite lucky in that regard.
	But when did you buy your first Ferrari?
	Never owned a Ferrari.
	I can tell you right now, up until this point in 2022, the most amount of money I ever spent on a car was I spent £32,000 on an Audi convertible, A4 convertible.
	spent on a car was I spent £32,000 on an Audi convertible, A4 convertible, and that must have been nearly 20 years ago.
	I'm kind of disappointed.
	And one more question before we move on to the coronavirus stuff.
	What was Stanley Matthews like?
	Would you ever play with him?
	Stanley was a little bit before my time, thanks, James.
	I understand that he certainly kept himself in better condition than I did because he carried on playing until he was 50.
	Did he?
	Well, those were the good old days when football players smoked cigarettes and things, weren't they?
	They just didn't even train.
	And look what it did to you.
	Training's overhyped, in my opinion.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I don't like this horrible professionalism that's infected the sport now.
	It's really... Football should be a fun game.
	It should be a fun game.
	You shouldn't take it that seriously.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well, I'm with you.
	I've been generally disappointed with the performance of footballers in the pandemic.
	I mean, OK, there's some are worse than others.
	Probably Gary Lineker is the worst.
	But there are very few footballers who've spoken out on this issue like you have.
	And I'm thinking particularly of something that's really doing damage to a lot of players, and that is adverse reactions to the vaccines, which the pharmaceutical industry is in denial about.
	And yet we've got players keeling, fit young men, super fit young men keeling over in the middle of games.
	Some famous ones that I'm supposed to have heard of and I would have heard of if I knew about football.
	Like three years ago, this would have been all over the newspapers, wouldn't it?
	I mean, what is causing the mystery collapse of all these players?
	But this year and last year, cricket, as far as I can see.
	So tell me about this.
	What's going on?
	Well, it is quite incredible.
	I mean, I spent 17 years as a professional footballer.
	In that time, I have no recollection of any player ever having to leave the field of play because of issues with his breathing.
	It just beggars belief that there's so many incidents that have gone on around the world and nobody is willing to even call for an investigation for it.
	I mean, what are the unions doing?
	What are the organisations, the football associations, what are they doing?
	They're looking at these things.
	They must see.
	They can't just turn a blind eye to it.
	They must see what's going on.
	And they are, from where I can see it, they're willfully turning their back to it and saying, I'm not saying anything because sticking your head above the parapet just gets you an enormous amount of abuse on social media.
	And nobody does anything about it.
	So they're keeping a storm about all this stuff.
	And for me, that is probably the biggest dereliction of duty I've ever seen in my life.
	The fact that there can be such a huge increase in the Not just footballers, by the way.
	It's a lot of other sports where it's happened.
	And the increase in it, I'm not saying that it's never happened before, because clearly it has happened before.
	It's never happened on this scale before.
	And that's the most important thing.
	And that's why I, for several weeks now, I've been calling for authorities just to have some kind of investigation into it, because it's not right.
	Yeah, and how have you been faring?
	Has anyone listened to you in the mainstream?
	I've been on GB News, I've been on Talk Radio, and I've spoken with the chairman of Thief Pro, the worldwide players' union.
	Right.
	I've spoken to him and he just recently, a couple of days ago, asked me if I would want to have a call with their medical expert.
	Now, I'm guessing that that call is going to be From the Chief Medical Officer, it's going to be a call that he's going to try to convince me that this is all normal and there's no increase and we just haven't seen the publicity surrounding it in previous years, which that's the call that I'm expecting to take.
	I'll be amazed if it's anything other than that, because I don't think they want to know.
	Yeah.
	No, I'm seeing already that they're starting to position themselves slightly for damage limitation.
	So they're now saying, yes, there does seem to be an epidemic of mysterious collapses in the world of football, etc.
	But our fact checkers have looked into it and it's got nothing whatsoever to do with the vaccines.
	Incredible, yeah.
	They come out with that sentence and have no citations to back that up at all.
	I don't believe there's ever been an investigation into it.
	So how could they come to that conclusion?
	And to be honest, I think we all know who the fact-checkers are funded by these days.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	So have you You must be in touch with loads and loads of footballers, both active and retired.
	What's the word, you know, behind the scenes, as it were?
	To be honest, there's very few that have that have actually bothered to contact me privately and say, you know, well done for what you're doing.
	I support you.
	I feel the same as you.
	There's very few that have done that.
	I think there's a few more recently, but I still think there's a vast majority of people who are still believing everything that they hear on the mainstream media platforms.
	And I think this is what Robert Malone was talking about with the mass formation psychosis.
	That there has been some serious damage done to the population, a huge part of the population, through the fearful propaganda that's taken place over the last two years.
	Yes.
	Well, without being too rude about footballers, is it because they're mostly thick and you're just one of the bright ones?
	Or what?
	What's going on here?
	Or are they cowardly?
	Yeah, I don't think per se footballers are a lot thicker than most other jobs, if I'm honest with you.
	There are some incredibly intelligent footballers that I've met along the way.
	Who's the cleverest footballer you've met?
	Well, I mean, I played alongside people like Ian Dowie, who, you know, I think they nicknamed him the Rocket Man because he had quite a high degree in some scientific subject, which I'm just trying to remember exactly which one it was, but he was quite an intelligent guy.
	But I think there are just a lot of players who don't want to have the hassle of speaking out against the narrative.
	I think that's the biggest part of it.
	I think they're all very conscious of their image in this day and age.
	Yeah.
	Well, the vast majority are conscious of their image and they have agents who are advising them to probably just say, you know what, it's too controversial, just shut your mouth.
	Yeah.
	And I think that's where we're at.
	Yeah, I can see that because that applies in a lot of professions.
	A lot of people would rather not stick their head above the parapet.
	I mean, actually, tell me, how much crap have you got for speaking out?
	Oh, quite a lot.
	I think if I was to... I've kind of learned some valuable lessons about perhaps not always going on to your replies when you make a post about something that's perhaps mildly controversial.
	We're talking about Twitter here.
	Yeah, yeah.
	That's the only thing I'm on at the moment.
	The other platform that I'm on, but yeah, it's been an interesting life lesson.
	I found myself spending too much time on social media arguing with people last year, so I've tended now to just send my opinion out there and people can do with it what they want and I'll just crack on with my life and I don't spend as much time as I did last year trolling through the timelines of my people that I follow.
	I think you've learned an important lesson there, because there is the temptation on social media to spend your whole day correcting people who are wrong.
	And actually, it really doesn't matter.
	You can't make the world better one idiot at a time.
	It takes so much out of you.
	And also, it's actually quite upsetting if you start letting this stuff get to you personally.
	I mean, I imagine that for most of your career, you were used to being loved apart from when you missed a goal or whatever.
	I mean, I imagine being a footballer is generally you get goodwill rather than negative energy, don't you?
	If you're playing at home you do, yes.
	But half your football matches are played in a stadium where 95% of the people want you to lose and hate you.
	So they cut you by a fair share through the years from huge amounts of crowds.
	Quite frankly, I kind of got used to it.
	It doesn't really bother me at all.
	So I've never let any of the replies ever affect me and the way that I think.
	I've never let anybody who wants to, you know, abuse me by writing a few words down on a social media platform.
	I've never let them have the satisfaction of thinking that I was in any way, shape or form upset by then stringing a few words together thinking More mature and a much better person than that, to be honest.
	But when you're playing an away match, do you get sledged by the, do they call you names?
	Oh yeah.
	Do they?
	What do they call you?
	I've had entire stands in a stadium singing, you know, you fat bastard or big nose, he's got a fucking big nose, all that kind of stuff.
	I took it all with a pinch of salt and I played along with it and I just had a laugh with it and I never let it bother me.
	It was just literally water off a duck's back and it still is so I don't have a problem with that at all.
	That's good.
	It's obviously been good training for your new career as a kind of... Because actually, Matt, we are quite few, aren't we?
	Those of us who have stuck our head above the parapet, be it in journalism or in football or music.
	I mean, how many musicians have made the effort?
	You can count them on the fingers of one hand pretty much, can't you?
	Ian Brown, Van Morrison, a few others.
	Yeah, Eric Clapton.
	Eric Clapton, of course.
	Sorry, Eric Clapton, yeah.
	And in the world of football, there's you.
	There's a couple of Wolves players, I think?
	Yeah, Karl Hakimi has been quite vocal about it, but there's not huge amounts.
	Trevor Sinclair, I think, has been He's quite vocal on social media about the amount of players that have collapsed on pitches.
	But again, he's got to be very careful.
	He has a job on the mainstream media with talk sport, and so he has to be careful about what he says, because obviously going against the narrative doesn't really curry you favour with any employers that are pro-government narrative, and it's a tough place to be.
	Which is actually pretty much every single institution out there is just supporting the government narrative.
	There's almost nobody is there questioning it.
	Absolutely.
	I know it's been very much.
	Very small factions that have perhaps managed to get together.
	There's been some good people who have done some good work with the Together declaration, for instance.
	They've got together a lot of people to fight the cause.
	I think they're handing in a petition This week it's a damaged route with a heck of a lot of signatures on it.
	So, you know, there are other ways of doing things rather than relying on the mainstream media.
	And I think that's been one of the big eye-openers for me over the last 18 months to two years, because I've never really... My life has just been about sport, basically.
	My entire life, my entire career has been all about sport.
	You know, in my spare time, if I'm not playing football or watching football and playing golf or I play tennis and my whole life just revolved around sport and this is kind of the first time in my life that I've ever feltated and it has been a real eye-opener and I've kind of gone through my life probably like most people just concentrating on my career and
	You know, trying to pay the mortgage, feed the family, all that kind of stuff.
	And it's the first time I've ever really had a chance to stop and slow down last year during the lockdown where you kind of just went, right, okay, what's going on here?
	What's happening?
	Why is this happening?
	Why are we taking these measures?
	This has never happened before.
	What's going on here?
	And for the first time in my life, I actually had time to go and look and research and try to find Both sides of the story, and then make up my mind as to which side of the story I thought was more plausible, quite frankly.
	And that's when I came to the decision that actually what they're doing isn't really plausible.
	And what the government are telling us, the way they're going about telling us, the way they've manipulated the figures in the hospitals, the way they count the figures, Just made absolutely no sense to me.
	I have a very logical brain.
	I can look at evidence, I can look at things, I can work things out pretty well.
	I've always We've done pretty well on any tests that are that way inclined.
	It just didn't make any sense to me.
	I had to go and find out why it didn't make sense.
	You don't really have to dig very far to go and look very far to see where the corruption is.
	There is no truer saying in life that if you want to find out what's really going on, follow the money.
	It all leads to the same place, and it doesn't take a genius to work it out.
	I'm not a genius.
	I'm a relatively intelligent human being who is able to make decisions based on facts when I've seen both sides of a story, and that's kind of what I am.
	And I don't pretend to be anything else.
	I don't pretend to be an epidemiologist.
	I just am somebody who will look at the facts And make up my own mind about something.
	And if that puts me in the minority, I'm not frightened of that position.
	I don't care being in a minority.
	If I think I'm right, I'm in a minority of one, I'll stay in that minority of one because I think that's right.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Well, yeah.
	So without destroying what's left of your public image in your career.
	What do you think is going on?
	What do I think is going on?
	I think there is an effort by people who are in control of Most of the media.
	And from what I can see, the majority of the media is owned by a handful of people.
	A handful of very powerful people, very rich people.
	And it wouldn't surprise me if those same people were actually in control of governments around the world.
	And that, for me, is a very dangerous place for the world to be in.
	I've looked into a little bit of the Klaus Schwab stuff.
	You know, the globalists, if they want to call themselves that, who think that there should be no borders and that there should just be a one world government.
	Then everything that's happened so far, the evidence points towards that being what is behind this.
	I'm quite happy if the evidence changes to change my mind.
	But from what I've seen, the illogical things that governments have done, With the decisions that they've made that just don't make any sense at the moment.
	I don't see any other reason but for that One World Government stuff with the World Economic Forum and all those guys over there.
	And if everything changes and the evidence changes, then I'm more than happy to change my mind about that.
	And I'm more than happy to put my hand up and go, do you know what?
	I was wrong.
	I was an idiot.
	Well, not that I was an idiot, but the evidence at the time pointed me towards thinking that way.
	And if the evidence changes, then I'll look at it again and I'll change my mind about stuff.
	But at the moment, that's what it looks like.
	I mean, look, I agree with you.
	But it's it's it's it's brave of you to say that because instantly one gets dismissed as a kind of tinfoil hat conspiracy theory loon, etc.
	But like like you, I've looked at the the evidence.
	And I'm thinking, well, OK, let's let's let's let's just concentrate for a moment on the these mysterious collapsings.
	And just I spoke to a friend that the same friend actually said, you're a maverick genius.
	And he hadn't a clue about the footballers keeling over in the middle of matches.
	It's extraordinary that this phenomenon is has been on our TVs.
	It ought to be all over the tabloid media.
	I mean, the tabloid media really cares about football, doesn't it?
	You would have thought that there would be a story every day.
	And, like, we're talking about some quite well-known players, aren't we?
	Tell me who's been affected by this.
	No, absolutely.
	I mean, Christian Eriksen during the Euros last year was probably, you know, You know, one of the greatest goalscorers in Premier League history has had to retire with heart issues.
	There are countless others who's named around the world.
	I've seen the pictures of the guys collapsing on pitches all around the world.
	Alphonso Davies, a Bayern Munich young Canadian fullback who has now got myocarditis.
	I think I've read that that's correct.
	And they're trying to claim that that was as a result of being infected by COVID.
	Yeah.
	But I think it was well done.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And it's, yeah, I just, I just find it quite bizarre that I don't find it quite bizarre.
	I know, because of all the other evidence, I know why the mainstream media are trying their best to ignore it and trying their best to come up with different excuses as to why it's happening and trying to actually normalise this kind of stuff.
	And to be honest, I was watching the TV the other day and an advert for the British Heart Foundation came on.
	And part of that advert was a young girl playing football who just collapsed instantly on a And I was shocked to my core, to be quite honest, and I just had this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that the British Heart Foundation are even trying to normalise something like that happening.
	I mean, this was an incredibly rare occurrence.
	Incredibly rare.
	And they're trying to normalise it on the mainstream.
	Yeah, I think there's been something like a 300% increase in these incidents.
	Yeah, I mean, I haven't done the studies.
	I haven't seen any studies.
	I'm like you.
	I've probably read the same things on social media from news outlets that are not mainstream media that have looked into it and have come up with that figure.
	I don't know if that figure is absolutely correct, but what I can tell you from my own experience and my own career over 70 years is that what I've witnessed on the television, watching sporting events over the last year, is an unbelievable increase in the amount of people that are struggling with their breathing during football matches.
	You know, there was a Manchester United centre-back just a few weeks ago, Victor Lindelof, who had an issue and it's kind of just swept under the carpet.
	No one speaks about it and, you know, it's like it's just forgotten about the day after and it's just not Not very nice that this is happening and nobody's willing to have an investigation into it.
	Well yeah, you would have thought, I mean, who's that famous one you mentioned, Sergio Aguero?
	So he, is he, was he really, he was really quite big?
	Oh, he was one of the greatest goalscorers the Premier League's ever seen.
	He was Manchester City's top centre-forward for the last 10 years.
	He's just been transferred to Barcelona and has had to retire at the age of 33, I think he is.
	And normally, how old would he have had ahead of him?
	I mean, most footballers will go on to 35, some to 37, 38 if they're lucky.
	But, you know, he just made a big move to Barcelona last summer.
	And within a few months, his career was over at his new club.
	So how much would somebody like him have been paid at Barcelona per year?
	At a guess?
	Oh, blimey!
	At a guess, I'd probably say... I would say probably £12-15 million a year.
	Okay, so probably, let's just guess, he was denied two or three years of earning £15 million a year.
	So that's £30 million, £45 million, depending on... I guess it'll all depend on his insurance.
	I don't know if they've insured him.
	He may get the value of his contract paid out.
	I don't know the details of that.
	That would be interesting.
	Yeah.
	Because if he's not getting it on insurance, I mean, that's quite a lot of money to lose, isn't it?
	30 million, 45 million to lose.
	You would think he would have a very good case Against whoever it was who encouraged him to take the vaccine.
	I don't know.
	I mean, you see where I'm going with this.
	Footballers make a lot of money.
	Yeah, but I don't think he'd ever probably would never like to stand on because I think he was quite vocal in encouraging kids to go and get their vaccinations.
	Yeah, that is kind of poetic justice then, isn't it?
	Well, I mean, I'm not that kind of person who would wish that upon somebody just because they've gone down that route.
	I take the view that he was, you know, brainwashed into thinking that there was no risk involved in taking this vaccine.
	But isn't the discussion in the dressing rooms, I mean, am I not right in thinking that some clubs, they've gone against the jab, they just won't do it?
	I haven't got the information in terms of if there is a certain club that has got very small vaccine uptake.
	I think there were some figures published that said that probably about 70% of all Premier League players, I think, were vaccinated.
	But, you know, that still leaves a sizable minority.
	But I couldn't tell you the breakdown of how many of those were at each club.
	Because they're keeping it quiet.
	I mean, I imagine if you're in the 30s, I mean, you must have heard of cases of people paying doctors to give them fake certificates.
	I mean, you can afford it if you're a footballer, can't you?
	Yeah, I've heard the stories.
	I've never, I've never come across somebody who's actually admitted to doing it.
	No, they wouldn't, would they?
	I mean, that's, that would make no, you know, if you're going to do it, you've got to kind of keep shturm.
	Yeah.
	But I mean, like, you would have thought rumours must go through changing rooms like wildfire.
	And when players start keeling over and when Sergio Aguero resigned, I mean, had to quit two years early, it must have sent alarm bells ringing in the firmament of football.
	You would have thought so.
	You would have thought so.
	But again, I think there's obviously some kind of gagging order in place on current professional footballers in the Premier League, because I don't think I've actually heard of... I'm not sure I've heard of one current Premier League player who's come out and said, I'm not taking this vaccine.
	I don't want to take it.
	And I don't think I've heard one of them say that.
	That's really sad.
	That's really sad.
	I suppose they'll do anything for a quiet life, won't they?
	Yeah, I think that's right.
	I think given the atmosphere around the country and given the fact that so many people have bought into it, they probably think it's not worth their while to go against the narrative.
	Yes, that's true.
	Pat Cash, you must have hung out with Pat Cash, the tennis player.
	Pat Cash, but I have been connected to Pat recently.
	What I mean is that as you are to football, the lone voice or almost lone voice speaking out, say Pat Cash is tennis.
	I'm pretty sure he told me that one of the players on the circuit, I think a French player,
	had had a very very bad reaction to the the clot shot and he started tweeting out about it or mentioning on social media and instead of getting sympathy from his fellow players they all said this is outrageous what are you whinging about how dare you can't you see what what this negative publicity is doing to vaccine uptake I know, it's just bizarre.
	It is the way that it has been spun.
	And you know, you have to give credit where credit is due.
	They did a very good job with a huge portion of the population who they've managed to convince that this is good for them.
	And they've also seemed to manage to convince a huge amount of them that It's not still in its trial phase.
	The amount of people that I've spoken to that have no idea that the vaccine is still only been granted emergency use authorization only is quite remarkable.
	So just I think just the sheer ignorance of people to just take what the government are recommending without doing any kind of research for themselves.
	Yes, yes, exactly.
	It's, it's a case of feelings don't care about your facts.
	People, people know in their bones that what the government tell it is telling them must be true.
	Because, because like, why would Piers Morgan have said about it on Good Morning Britain otherwise?
	I mean, he wouldn't lie, would he?
	And why would why would TV Dr. Schillery?
	I mean, he's a doctor, he's got doctor in front of his name, and he's on TV.
	So he's, he's gonna know, isn't he?
	It's just quite incredible.
	And the amount of flip-flopping that Dr. Hillary has done was just bizarre.
	I mean, when you see the clips about him early on in the pandemic, telling us all that masks were absolutely useless and they're no good for respiratory viruses.
	And then, I don't know what, he must have got either a tap on his shoulder or a large amount of money in his banking account, I don't know.
	And all of a sudden, we should be wearing masks even when we go swimming, according to him, which was just the most bizarre thing I think I've ever seen on my television.
	Yeah.
	Traditionally, people wear sort of masks over their eyes, not over their mouths when they're swimming.
	Yeah.
	It's very frustrating, isn't it?
	You must have been through this as well.
	We're on a mission to try and educate people out of their incredible ignorance, which is a destructive ignorance, because it could mean that they're going to die.
	They could die of blood clots.
	They could die of myocarditis or whatever.
	I mean, at the very least, they could have sort of long term reduction in the quality of their life.
	So we're on a noble mission here.
	And yet, The frustration!
	It's like you yearn to give them the killer facts that will make them see sense and see the light and they go, oh well, now I know that killer fact, I've changed my mind.
	But it seems to me that there's no information that we can give them that will... I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that my emotions don't care about your facts.
	I think What I've learned over the last year, and even with close friends and members of my family, is that you can't give them the facts.
	They're not interested in the facts.
	So, instead of giving them facts now, I just tend to say, why don't you have a look at this?
	Have a look at that.
	Just look into it yourself.
	Don't take my word for it.
	I don't want you to take my word for it.
	And I don't want you to take the government's word for it.
	I don't want you to take the BBC's word for it.
	Look into it yourself and come to your own conclusion.
	And that's the best bit of advice I can give to anybody now.
	Because, as you say, the facts don't matter to them.
	They're so entrenched in their position.
	They would actually prefer to carry on believing the lie than to actually admit that they've been lied to.
	Once you come to that conclusion, you don't give up, but you just have to try to go about it in a different way.
	That is very good advice.
	And it accords with what I've read and heard elsewhere, that you have to kind of catch it in the form of a question rather than so why do you think it's happening?
	And you're right about getting people to do their own research.
	I mean, look, Three years ago, I was a normie.
	I believed everything.
	I believed government was basically your, you know, designed to kind of help you or at least, you know, that was his aim.
	Even if it didn't always succeed, that journalists were, their job was to seek out the truth and without fear or favor and publish it regardless of what the establishment might try to do to stop them.
	And scientists, well actually I knew scientists didn't do science because I'd already been onto them in the whole climate change scam.
	But generally I trusted the history of the world that I was taught.
	I had no idea There were these, these elites, I hate to use the word elites, there were these, the powers that be, the people above the level of government, the people, you know, on an international level who are pulling the strings of people like Boris.
	I mean, we become obsessed with personalities, don't we?
	Oh, what's Boris going to do next?
	Oh, how's Boris going to get out of this garden party fiasco?
	Is he going to, and you think, I mean, do you agree?
	It doesn't really matter who's... It's not his choice.
	He'll do as he's told.
	Yeah, yeah.
	When did you start going down the rabbit hole?
	What was the moment when you sort of thought, wow?
	It was very, very early.
	Probably, actually, before The first lockdown.
	So kind of early March last 2020.
	And the thing that did it for me was the video of the guy that came out of China, of the people just dropping dead in the street.
	And I was just like, No, that doesn't look real.
	What's going on here?
	What's happening?
	And that's what set me off to go, hang on a minute, something's not right here.
	And then I started doing a bit of research into it and started to listen to some people who were considered conspiracy theorists.
	And I just started listening to them.
	And like I say, I like to get both sides of the story.
	And I started listening to them and what they were saying and what they were predicting was going to happen.
	And so I kept my counsel a little bit.
	I was, you know, a little bit skeptical at the start.
	And then what I'd read about in early March 2020, all of a sudden, everything started to Come true, what people were suggesting was going to happen, you know, with the with the vaccines being rolled out and then almost made compulsory, which I think we've just seen in Austria at the moment and life for the for the unvaccinated being made very uncomfortable.
	And, you know, I just watched interviews of Bill Gates.
	I watched him in interviews.
	And I'm no great educated person of body language, but I watched those videos with an open mind.
	And while I was watching those videos of him talking, I just had a very nasty feeling in my stomach about him.
	I couldn't put my finger on what it was, but I'm watching those videos and I didn't believe a word he was saying.
	I thought he was like some kind of maniac.
	And I've just seen lie upon lie come to fruition over the last few months from them saying that the vaccine will 100% stop you from transmitting the disease or stop you from getting the disease, stop you from being hospitalised, it will stop you from dying, all that stuff.
	And then this gradual narrative change of when they can't hide the evidence any longer.
	How they go, well, actually, yes, we know it doesn't really stop you from transmitting, but it will stop you from going to hospital.
	And it's just the gradual decrease in the efficacy that they're willing to admit to of the vaccines.
	All of it is just bizarre.
	Yeah, because originally, I think the vaccine was actually going to actually going to stop you getting COVID.
	They've quickly shifted their position on that one, didn't they?
	Yeah, and I think, you know, I think back to, I was watching Parliament and I saw Matt Hancock stand up in Parliament and explicitly say that these vaccines are for adults only and they will not be used on children.
	And lo and behold, what's been happening?
	He lied.
	He flat out lied to Parliament.
	And, you know, Boris has done it several times.
	And my trust, my level of Yeah.
	sunk into an all-time low during these last two years because they are willfully lying in Parliament where you're meant to be able to hold people to account and yet you've got an opposition party there that, well, I'm not sure they can even be caught in opposition at the moment because they're propping Boris up.
	Yeah, they are.
	They are the uniparty.
	You're right.
	Keir Starmer is really no different from from Boris.
	I love the fact that Keir Starmer was caught out at that.
	Drinking at that illicit event, you know, when he really wanted the moral high ground.
	Well, of course, it's disgraceful.
	These disgraceful Tories having these drinks parties in 10 Downing Street.
	We wouldn't do such a thing.
	And then he's caught on camera doing exactly the same thing.
	Absolutely.
	And, you know, the other thing that kind of set the alarm bells ringing for me was the The journalists, the questions that the journalists were asking in the early days when Boris was doing his press conferences, it almost seemed like daily at the time.
	And just the questions that were being asked were just Awful!
	And there was just no balance to the questions.
	There was nothing there that was going to put the Prime Minister on the back foot.
	There was nothing that was going to put him in an awkward position.
	It was just all so, oh, why don't you lock us down harder?
	And it was just like, come on, journalists, do your job properly.
	And so again, that was another thing that made me want to go, hang on a minute, something's not right here.
	This isn't how journalists should be behaving in a situation like this.
	They were not asking the questions that the people wanted asked.
	I'm totally with you.
	It all seems glaringly obvious to me.
	What I'm wondering is, why can we see it and most people?
	Why are you just about the only footballer, for example, speaking out on this, who's even noticed?
	Were you always a difficult sod?
	Were you a what?
	I don't think I was always a difficult sod.
	I've always...
	I've never been afraid to question authority.
	If I felt on a football pitch that the referee had made a wrong decision, then I was quite vocal in telling him that I thought it was wrong.
	I've never been afraid to question.
	One of the big things in my life is I like things to be fair.
	I don't like to feel like I'm being cheated.
	And if I feel like I'm being cheated, it's one of the worst feelings that I can have and it makes me so frustrated.
	And whenever he gave a decision against me that I knew was wrong, that feeling would come out and go, well, you're cheating.
	I couldn't accept that he just was making a mistake and he just got it wrong.
	I'd actually think, you're actually cheating.
	You can't be that stupid.
	And so a lot of things for me in my life are about fairness and being treated fairly.
	And so when I see, when I saw all the journalists asking all these ridiculous questions, ...of Boris in the early days, and all the ridiculous ways that they were counting the numbers, you know, any death within 28 days of a positive test is a COVID death.
	And you're like, hang on, that's not right, that's not fair, that's not right, and you are deceiving people.
	And it's right out in the open, they told everyone what they were doing, and yet none of the journalists would actually question them, and go, do you not think that's a little bit wrong, that a bloke can, you know, Have a positive test, go out of his car and kill himself in a road accident, and yet he goes down as a Covid death.
	Yeah.
	How, how did no journalist ever question that policy to either Boris Johnson or Chris Whitty or Patrick Vallance?
	Jesus Christ, it was so frustrating sitting there watching that.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	It's, it's, it's, it's maddening.
	They seem to be changing the, moving the narrative on now.
	Have you noticed this?
	Like these journalists who before, for like two years, have not been doing their sodding job at all.
	And suddenly they're starting to say, you know, you see even, not that I can read Piers Morgan's Twitter because I'm blocked by him, like most people, but...
	But okay, so you're seeing journalists who are saying, well, hang on a second, what seems to be going on?
	Now they start to do their job.
	It's like they're repositioning the narrative so that for the next stage in whatever they're planning for us.
	Have you noticed this?
	Yeah, yeah, there's been definitely, they've allowed more people onto mainstream media who are questioning the narrative a little bit over the last few weeks.
	I have seen that.
	I saw that there was a newspaper in Denmark that actually came out and apologised to its people for just parroting the government line through the whole pandemic, allegedly.
	I would have thought, with a pandemic, That you would see a massive spike, given it was global.
	Yeah.
	On a global scale in 2020, you would see a massive spike in the amount of people that died in 2020.
	But I am still yet to see those figures that show that there was a massive amount of people that died more than usual, would die, in any given year.
	And again, that's another thing that makes me sceptical about the whole thing.
	I think, I think that, um, we would have seen the massive spike had it existed because they'd have been desperate to prove their, to support their allies.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Um, yeah.
	Out of interest, have you ever gone down the, the rabbit hole?
	The, the Alan, have you come across Alan Watt?
	No, I haven't.
	It's really sad.
	Alan Watt was apparently was a fan of my podcast.
	And had I known about him earlier, I would have got him on because he was brilliant.
	He was a Scotsman.
	I think he lived in Canada and did these meditative, very well informed podcasts talking about how the world really is.
	And one of the things I'll try and send the link of he did a really good talk about about the nature of the world and he mentioned football and football is very much part of the the bread and circuses which the elites the powers that be use to weaken us to turn us into these football
	I'm sort of paraphrasing Alan Watts argument but but he talks about how back in the day you'd have you know we're talking about in the 19th century you'd have it was a sort of very much an amateur sport you'd have local local clubs playing locally and and And then in came these stadiums and these huge stadiums and football, all the money poured into football and just obscene amounts of money.
	You missed out that best, you know, you and Stanley Matthews were not quite there.
	But the idea that you invest The population's emotional energy, not in anything that they achieve in their own lives, but it's all poured into their team and their team's performance matters.
	It's a kind of, they're living vicariously through the sport and through the players.
	And that this ultimately weakens our society because people are so busy worrying about what their football team's doing.
	They don't really care about what's going on in their own life.
	No, and I think that was one of the reasons why they were so keen to try and get football back quite quickly once they'd shut everything down.
	Because I think they wanted people to have some kind of entertainment in their homes and something to Look forward to.
	And I think they did that by letting the players play without any fans in the stadium.
	And I think it was just it was just to keep the populace under control.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I was, by the way, this nonsense about kneeling for Black Lives Matter.
	Well, what do you think of that?
	Tell me.
	Well, it's it's been Done now for well over a year.
	I'm yet to see what effect it's really had on racism.
	And I find it really odd.
	Completely, Matt.
	I find it really odd that they would choose, that the football would choose to do that, given that the massive percentage of Premier League footballers that are black.
	You know, there is a much higher proportion of Premier League footballers that are black than there is proportionate to our country, to how many black people live in the country.
	And so I'm really yet to see what effect it has had.
	And I don't know.
	It's just using football as a political tool, in my opinion.
	And I've always believed that politics should be kept out of football.
	And so I didn't agree with that.
	I was very much against it.
	I'd actually been doing a little bit of research into the Black Lives Matter organisation.
	And when all of a sudden the Premier League aligned themselves to that organisation, I was like, what?
	Hang on a minute.
	They've chosen the same slogan as this organisation in America.
	And I'm thinking, surely, what are you doing?
	How have you allowed yourself to do that and be aligned with that organisation?
	And so gradually, I think people I think they got the message when I think when fans were first allowed back in the stadium and the players took the knee.
	And I think the supporters made their feelings known what they thought about that.
	And then they've had to drop the whole Black Lives Matter badges for the TV presenters and taken the Black Lives Matter symbol off of the screen after, you know, eight minutes, 45 seconds.
	I can't remember the exact time it was.
	And so, you know, from my point of view, I think politics Out of football at all costs, and I think that was a political gesture.
	Are they still doing it at matches?
	They are.
	There are a few individuals and a few clubs.
	I don't think they're doing it so much in the lower leagues, but in the Premier League they do.
	But there are a handful of players that I think have decided to not do it anymore.
	I noticed Marcus Alonso playing for Chelsea yesterday, who didn't But I would have thought if there was one thing football fans are good for, it's calling out bullshit, calling out nonsense.
	And I thought that when they allowed the fans back into the stadiums, there'd be so much booing and stuff that the practice would discontinue.
	So what's happened to football fans?
	Well, I think what happened was, early on when the fans came back, there was a lot of booing.
	And those fans, there was a big media campaign basically labelling anybody that was booing was a racist.
	So then, all of a sudden, when they started taking the knee after that, obviously nobody was going to boo because they didn't want to be a racist.
	Right.
	And also, they'd get kicked out, wouldn't they, I suppose?
	There's a polite round of applause now instead, you know, to go, you know, I'm clapping, I'm not a racist.
	That's great.
	I'm glad racism has been abolished by players kneeling for a separatist organisation at the beginning of matches.
	That's really good.
	I hear complaints from some football fans that the clubs, I think Karen Brady did this at whatever club she manages or?
	West Ham.
	West Ham, okay.
	That they are poshifying the clubs.
	They're driving out all the working class fans.
	They're finding different ways of doing it and making them in kind of middle class zones only.
	Is that true?
	I haven't seen that if I'm honest.
	I went down to my football club last Tuesday for a game and I didn't see, I mean obviously there's corporate hospitality in most of the stadiums now, but I think the one thing that perhaps May do that is the cost of the tickets.
	It's not cheap to go and watch a football match anymore.
	So that may be what they're pointing to in regard to that would be pricing people out of the game.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	How much does it cost to go to a football match?
	Well, I paid £52 each for me and my dad to go and watch last Tuesday.
	Yeah, that's like going to the theatre or something, isn't it?
	That kind of league.
	What do you think about the Djokovic business?
	Do you think Australia's made a complete arse of itself?
	I think, yes, they have.
	I don't think Anybody came out of that with a huge amount of credit from the Australian government.
	It seemed like they were just picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight.
	And I think when politicians put themselves above the law, I think we sit in a very dangerous place in society.
	Well, yeah, yeah.
	I mean, I agree that everything they did exposed it as all about politics.
	It wasn't about health.
	We know it wasn't about health.
	It was about sending a message to the Australian public to teach them a lesson and to make sure that the Australian government have got the people's best interests at heart and you stay scared and we will control you and we're not letting this bloke I don't know.
	You never know if you're getting told the whole story.
	This is the thing.
	But I think Jocko has actually said his agent made a mistake in filling out the form.
	Which didn't help the situation.
	But I think even without that, the Australians didn't want Novak Djokovic in their country and they would have found any way to get him deported, whether it was a mistake or a filling out a form or whatever it was.
	I believe that the Australian government were never going to let him play in that tournament.
	Yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right.
	He's fairly outspoken, isn't he?
	It's obvious, although I don't think he's stated it directly, but it's fairly obvious that he hasn't taken the jab because he believes in alternative health.
	He doesn't like big farmers, rushed remedies.
	Yeah, no, and I think, you know, I think those people are.
	And that concerns me, that people who choose to live a life without taking the pills from the pharmaceutical industry seem to be labelled as some kind of freaks and nutcases.
	When actually, let's be honest, pharmaceutical companies only make money if they keep you sick.
	They don't make money from you if you keep yourself well, so they don't want you to be well.
	They don't want you to be healthy.
	They want you to be just sick enough to be able to take their tablets.
	Word, as they say in the youth community.
	Word.
	Yeah, absolutely, absolutely right.
	It's, I mean, the big pharma companies are basically funding the journalists to diss Anyone who criticizes Big Pharma and says that there may be another way, maybe it's, it's, it's a, it's a racket.
	And I think you're right about the interconnectedness of things that, that the media, the powers that be, the, the pharma companies, the World Economic Forum, everything, everything connects, but there aren't many.
	One of the biggest things I think I'd like to see going forward would be some new legislation brought in that anybody who does appear on the television, given their opinions on a certain subject, I think should be made to declare their conflicts of interest first before they speak on any subject.
	Because I think there's a lot of people that have spoken about the rules, and it turns out that they had big interests in big shares in pharmaceutical companies, and they were pushing the very thing that was going to make them money.
	And they should, in that situation, be forced to say, Before they open their mouth, they should be forced to say, look, I've got this many shares in this company.
	I've got this many shares in that company.
	That's my complex of interest.
	Here's what I think.
	And then people can make up their own mind, knowing that they've got all the information available to them.
	What I don't like is people just being fed half-truths and half the information and not being able to make a fully informed decision.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I've got to ask you, have you ever met Gary Lineker?
	Yes, I have met Gary Lineker.
	I think it's fair to say Gary disagrees vehemently with everything that I put on social media, but that's fine.
	At least he hasn't blocked me like Piers Morgan.
	He hasn't blocked you?
	I mean, I'm disturbed by Gary Lineker because I, you know, a bit like we were saying earlier about how we both believed in the world that it was The blue pill world, if you like, if you know the Matrix, you know, the world, the world of illusion that we're brainwashed from birth to believing it.
	And I thought Gary Lineker, he's okay, so he's really good looking and he's a good footballer.
	And he's really charming and, you know, obviously a complete gentleman.
	He would never make, you know, passes at women who weren't his wife or whatever.
	And he's a powerfully decent fellow, which is why he got the Crisp commercial, where he did this whole thing about how he's so nice, but occasionally he'll do naughty things like steal somebody's crisps.
	And I'm thinking, that was all bollocks, wasn't it? - - Ah, yes.
	I'm sure that, you know, there is somewhere in the friendship between Gary Lineker and Piers Morgan sits very uncomfortably with me.
	You know, knowing Gary and having met Piers and knowing the kind of person that Piers is and Gary is, I find it very odd that those two would become buddies.
	And it seems to me that something's not quite right there.
	I think so.
	I mean, again, it depends on how far you want to go with this one.
	But it seems to me that there are certain agents, if you like, who push the narrative of the powers that be.
	I mean, Piers Morgan is obviously one of them.
	Gary Lineker is obviously another one.
	These these figures, I mean, I'm not saying that Gary Lineker, he was a Townshend football player, but there's something else that he does that's got nothing to do with football, that is definitely pointing the world in a wrong direction, and he's abusing his influence and his prestige to promote this, like Piers Morgan is.
	Yeah, I mean, a lot of what Gary says is kind of very much the opposite of And I think he's very quick to jump on me on any social media post that goes against the narrative.
	And you know what?
	It's his prerogative.
	He's the one who has to put his head on his pillow at night and try and sleep soundly.
	And I know when I put my head on my pillow at night, I sleep very well.
	Thank you very much.
	You do, and you deserve your good night's sleep, Matt.
	I totally see that.
	It's a shame that you can't give me the kind of the dirt from the period where footballers were, you know, you were a bit early for the stage when the footballers got paid, you know, a Ferrari a day for their...
	But nevertheless, even when you were involved in that world, football is analogous to being a Hollywood star or being a major pop star.
	You are figures of tremendous influence.
	And I'm just wondering, I mean, how do you ever get do you ever get a sense that that you're being sort of targeted by dark forces?
	I mean, you know, OK, so you look at you look at the the domination of Freemasonry in the the pop industry and the and the and Hollywood.
	There are all sorts of kind of weird, pervy things that they do to to to demonstrate their kind of Their solidarity with the dark side.
	Did you see any of that in football?
	No, I can honestly say I saw none of that.
	I was very much a person that didn't really court the footballer's lifestyle thing, if you like.
	You know, I was Married at quite a young age.
	I had kids at a young age.
	And I wasn't... I went into football because I loved football and I was good at it.
	I didn't go into football to become famous.
	And I've kind of lived as much of a normal life, if I can put it that way, as I possibly can.
	You know, I've always... I've never kicked myself away.
	I've always gone out and about in the city of Southampton, where I live.
	And I've always had time for people.
	If people wanted to stop and have a chat in the middle of the street, not a problem.
	I've always done that.
	And I've just tried to live a nice, quiet life and try to do the best I can.
	And so I never really kind of got into those circles that were, you know, into the big parties and that kind of stuff.
	Kebabs.
	Kebabbing.
	That's what I've read about.
	Kebabbing.
	You've only eaten one?
	Out of a burger van?
	I've actually never eaten one of them.
	Have you not?
	You've never done the other one?
	Well, that's the thing.
	Look, I get the feeling that you and I are innocents abroad.
	Because, like, for example, I was a rock critic for 20 years.
	I never even Not for a second did I get any any vibe that these people were involved in, you know, they'd sold their souls to Satan or whatever.
	It's just they just seem like musicians playing guitars and then, you know, having a few beers afterwards.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, I really, I really appreciate, um, what you've been doing for, because like, you didn't need to do this.
	I mean, you could have just sort of settled in your, your largest state in Southampton or wherever you live.
	And that's the thing I'd also say to people as well, is that I would rather take the advice of somebody who has nothing to gain and everything to lose by what they're standing up and saying.
	Than somebody who is standing to gain financially or otherwise from the stuff that they're pointing out.
	And that's why I say to people, go and do your research.
	Go and find out stuff about people.
	Try and think, why are they saying that?
	Why would they be saying that?
	What's their motive for saying that?
	And you don't normally have to dig too far to find it.
	And that's what I've been trying to impress upon people.
	Have you had success?
	I mean, as anyone's said, I thought you were a complete twat, but now I realize that actually you're right.
	Funny enough, I play golf with three mates of mine on a regular basis, all of them a bit older than me, and all three of them in 2020 thought that I'd become an absolute lunatic.
	Because of what I was telling them that I'd listened to, I'd researched, and they thought I was crazy.
	They thought I was going mad.
	And just a couple of months ago, I played with the same three guys, and two out of the three of them actually apologised to me and said, you know, do you know what?
	You were right.
	You were right.
	And both of them have now said they will not be taking it out.
	And what about the third one?
	I hope you ganged up on him and bullied him because now there's three of you against one.
	Well, the third one was actually, I was actually best man at his wedding about 15 years ago.
	And he still thinks that Boris is doing a good job in dealing with this, you know, unprecedented situation that we're in.
	But then again, you know, I do, I've not fallen out with him.
	And I do get a little bit frustrated sometimes, but we're very good mates.
	We don't fall out.
	But he is an ex-policeman, so I grant him a little bit of slack because of that.
	Ah, right.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	I'm sure there's some killer football questions that I neglected to ask you, but I can't think what they might be.
	You've got Matt Atissier and you didn't ask him about the time he scored a very, very good goal.
	Tell me about your very, very good goal.
	When was that?
	Well, I'm not sure we've got enough time to talk about all of them.
	No, of course not.
	There were quite a few decent ones.
	My favourite one was a goal I scored against Blackburn from about 35 yards out, which I managed to stick into the top corner.
	And the guy in goal for Blackburn that day He was a very good mate of mine and a former teammate of mine, a guy called Tim Flowers, and that made the goal all the more sweet to see him fly across the air, getting nowhere near the shot that I'd hit from such a long way out.
	That's good.
	Can one see it on YouTube, do you think?
	Absolutely.
	So, I'm going to look.
	Laetitia Blackburn goal.
	In YouTube, you can just put Laetitia's greatest goals.
	I'm going to, I'm going to do that.
	Okay, that's great.
	Matt, it's been an absolute, absolute joy talking to you.
	I hope that one day we meet.
	Likewise, mate.
	And when we do, I'm not going to do that stupid sodding, don't you hate that, that elbow bumping?
	What's that about?
	People still do that?
	Do they still do that?
	Oh, occasionally people do it.
	What I have been, what I have been very encouraged by over the last few months is the amount of people now that will just I have gone back to normal.
	I will shake hands as a greeting.
	Certainly in my area.
	Are you, like me, a rabid... No, rabid isn't the right word, but you don't wear a mask when you go into a supermarket?
	Or do you?
	No.
	No.
	No, I haven't worn a mask.
	We did a show at the Mayflower Theatre on Sunday evening.
	With my old Soccer Saturday Pals.
	And we had, well, I must have been a good 150 or so people come up for photographs with us all beforehand.
	And every one of them, I shook their hand.
	A couple of the guys did a little fist bump, but you know, I'm like, no, I'll put my hand out.
	And if you don't want to shake it, then you don't have to shake it.
	But my hand's there, if you want to shake it, you shake it.
	And every single person that came up shook my hand.
	And guess what?
	I'm fine!
	I'm all good!
	You haven't died?
	No?
	Well, well done.
	No!
	Thank you.
	That's really good.
	And by the way, it was very clever of you to get your evil, big-sounding dog to bark in the background because no one's going to come and raid your house for all your kind of football trophies and stuff when they hear that.
	Well, you obviously didn't do your research because I didn't win any football trophies.
	Yeah, all right, your gold-plated taps and all the stuff that footballers have in their houses.
	I've got a very big dog.
	That was a very good bark.
	Yeah, well, well done.
	Well done.
	Well, it's been an absolute joy talking to you and good luck.
	And yeah, let's hope we meet soon.
	Oh, I always forget.
	Is there anything you want to plug?
	Have you got a book out or anything?
	No, I'd just like to plug the fact that I would like you all to go out and do your own research.
	Don't believe everything you hear from me.
	Don't believe everything you hear from the BBC.
	Go and think about it yourself and come to your own conclusions.
	That's great.
	Thank you, Matt.
	And may I remind listeners that you can support me on Subscribestar.
	I really appreciate your support.
	It's because freedom isn't free.
	And obviously, I can't do this stuff for nothing because, like, my wife would kill me.
	I mean, why would you let me do this nonsense and not get paid for it?
	So thank you very much.
	That has been really good fun.
	And see you.
	Bye bye.
	Thanks, mate.
	Bye bye.

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