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July 24, 2021 - The Delingpod - James Delingpole
58:42
Jason Miller
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Welcome to The Deling Pod with me, James Delingpole.
And I know I always say I'm excited about this week's special guest, but I have landed a whale, I would say, today.
I mean, Jason Miller.
Jason was, like, press spokesman for Donald Trump?
What was your exact title, Jason?
Yeah, James, thanks for having me.
So I was his senior advisor on the two presidential campaigns.
So I was with him both in 2016, the historic win.
And then of course, in 2020, where it seems that election just continues in perpetuity.
But obviously, we came up 44,000 votes over three states short.
So it's a razor thin contest.
So, still very close with President Trump, and then I ran his impeachment defence effort for his second impeachment, I should say, and was with him until joining as the CEO of Getter, the new social media company.
So, I completely blew it.
You weren't a mere press spokesman, you were actually even more powerful than I imagined.
When you work for President Trump, there's President Trump and there's everybody else.
Don't worry about that, but for most of the stretch I was his lead spokesperson for 2016.
But obviously part of a bigger team, but don't worry about the title stuff.
That's good.
Now there's loads of stuff I want to ask you, but I have a problem when talking to American conservatives, I mean particularly ones who've held positions of influence and power like you have.
Which is that some of them are prepared to go completely down the rabbit hole with me, and some of them are much more cautious.
For example, I interviewed the other day a wonderful American conservative commentator, and we agreed on most stuff.
But she wasn't prepared to go down the rabbit hole.
It's not even a rabbit hole, it's just true about the stolen presidential election.
I know some people are kind of awkward about this.
It's like somebody's farted in the elevator and a lot of people want to pretend that nobody has broken wind and that it's all fragrant and above board.
And I was wondering where you are on this.
Are you being cautious and politic about Trump?
Or are you, yeah, it was stolen.
Well, let me go and chunk it out into two parts, and it's not quite as easy as it might sound.
One of the things that folks, particularly in the UK, might not realize is that the U.S.
Constitution sets it up to where state legislatures need to set up the voting systems and the way that the elections are held at a state-by-state level.
And in many states around the country, particularly ones that are controlled by Democratic governors, they circumvented the state legislatures, set it up really under the guise of COVID.
Here's how we're going to make it safer.
I'm just going to send ballots out to everybody and don't worry about it.
I do believe that that was a direct violation of the Constitution.
Now, specific to the fraud and irregularities, I do think that there are considerable fraud and irregularities that we've seen in a number of states.
I have not seen based purely on the fraud and irregularities, the direct numbers that would show that the election should be reversed.
But in the, in the total context when you talk about the constitutional violation regarding Article Two, in the way that laws were circumvented, again, in the ostensibly because of COVID.
And also the real concerns we've seen with fraud and abuse.
I do think it's an issue that warrants additional conversation and some probably some state level reforms, probably not the federal level, probably state level.
But Joe Biden is the current president of the United States and Uh, Kamala Harris is the vice president and I hope to beat both of them again, uh, in 2024 with, uh, you know, the president Trump comes back or somebody else.
Uh, but, but in the meantime, if, uh, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris want to come and join the getter, the social media platform, uh, I have their handles reserved for them.
So I got my political hat on, but I'm also being realistic about who's in the white house.
And so, um, I don't know if that's a deep enough rabbit hole for me, but that's where I am.
I tell you what it is, Jason, it's a very politic answer.
I mean, I suppose you are working within the system.
From where I'm sitting, it was the most outrageous, it was grand larceny, the biggest act of theft in political history.
I think you've got a fake president right now.
I think you're basically a communist state enthralled to the CCP run by a crook with dementia.
But I can say that because I'm a sort of gung-ho conservative commentator.
At the same time, I'm hardly in a position to chuck too many stones across the pond because I think that what's happening in my country is just as appalling.
What's happening around the world is a kind of coup by a globalist technocratic elite, and Biden and Kamala Harris are part of that.
And of course, another part of this coup that's taken place is the destruction of freedom of speech, to which you have responded with your getter, website.
I must confess, I have not been on to Getty yet.
I'm not going to go until I get my guaranteed blue tick or whatever.
What do you have on Getty?
Do you have blue ticks or something else?
So we have a red verification symbol and I will guarantee you that we'll get your verification symbol up immediately.
So we'll talk after the show.
I'll make sure that it's there and it's waiting for you so there won't be any sort of delay.
And what are you doing?
Obviously, you're not going to be as full of rampant, censorious leftists as Twitter is.
What's your sort of chucking people off policy?
Is it completely no-holds-barred or what?
Yeah, so let me give you a little bit of the overview to make sure people understand the value proposition, why I believe that Getter is different.
What we say by that is if you believe in free speech and you oppose cancel culture, we want you to come join.
That could be in the U.S., could be in the U.K., could be anywhere around the world.
And in fact, right now, the Getter platform, only about 45% of the 1.5 million global users are in the U.S., about 15% are Brazil.
U.K. is about 3% right now, but rising rapidly.
We see U.K. is a big growth market.
And so this is truly a global platform, which is different from a lot of other alternative platforms that have come out in the past.
This is something that truly is.
So to the question, though, our commitment and our pledge, not only will we never sell or share any user data, which is different from, again, Facebook and Twitter, but you'll never be deplatformed or censored on Getter for sharing your political beliefs.
Now, does that mean that there's no moderation policy and And complete no holds barred?
Not at all.
We do have what I would say is a proactive and a robust moderation strategy, but that's to ensure that, for example, people aren't being physically threatened, that there are not racial epithets, that there's not explicit pornography that's being put on the Getter platform.
So those are the goals and ideals that we strive for, because in order to have that free speech for people, be able to talk in political terms.
So here in the U.S. where we saw President Trump being deplatformed, we've seen people, in fact, a recent polling that I saw showed 20% of all Republicans in the U.S. either know someone or have been kicked off of a platform themselves, which was pretty outrageous.
But nobody should ever say that freedom of speech is fine as long as you agree with the big tech oligarchs in California.
That's the wrong way to do it.
Yeah, but it's actually, I mean, it's even worse than what you said implies.
I mean, did you see the Twitter thread that Tucker read out on his show, his analysis of what has happened?
I mean, I don't think that any of that is disputable, is it?
I mean, it really is.
Things really are that bad.
Trump won more, let's be honest, I know you've got to pretend that this is all, everything's fair and above board and legal and stuff, but actually... I wouldn't say, yeah.
No, okay, okay, you said that to me halfway.
Yeah, no, there are a number of places.
I mean, look, in particular, if we take a look at Georgia with the concern about the lack of chain of custody records for all the drop boxes, I mean, that's a big concern when it comes to the election.
In Arizona, the Maricopa hearing just showed that there are potentially upwards of 70,000 or 80,000 votes that still have no idea when they were actually cast.
Even take a look at a state like Nevada, which now this is kind of absurd and people in the UK might not realize How ridiculous this is, and how kind of goofed up the American voting system is, you can turn in a mail-in vote in the state of Nevada three days after the election with no postmark, and it counts.
Now, the difference with Nevada is they actually passed it through the state legislature.
So the state legislature is a bunch of nut jobs.
There's a lot of real concerns with the fraud and abuse, so I'm not ceding that at all.
My broader point is that once you swear someone in as president, the Constitution only allows removal from office by one method, and that's by impeachment.
And right now, with Democrats controlling the House and the Senate, That's not going anywhere, but I think it's pivotal that we go and fix this system so people can have confidence in the elections going forward.
Except we can't, can we?
Because, I mean, let's ride one of my hobby horses at the moment.
I mean, I really do get upset by what's happening in America.
Look, I'm coming from the perspective that I love America.
I think the Republic is a genius invention, or rather a kind of a reinvention of the Roman Republic.
And I feel I can claim partial credit for this.
I mean, not literally, personally, but it was, after all, they were basically Brits who came over to your side.
They were they were products of, you know, Yeah, I mean, people like Locke, you know, thinkers like that, they form the intellects of the men who came over to create your constitution, your brilliant founding fathers.
And they put in these checks and balances, which I've read all about.
And, you know, Americans have a wonderful thing you do where you make Our system in England seemed kind of really not as good as yours, because you've got all these fantastic checks and balances, like your Supreme Court.
And then I look at your Supreme Court, and I remember all the... How... Donald Trump, how hard he fought for that man Kavanaugh.
To get him into the Supreme Court.
And how is Kavanaugh rewarding him?
I mean, Justice Alito, I think, has warned about this recently.
He said, do not expect Kavanaugh... I mean, this is... I paraphrase because he wouldn't have used these words.
Do not expect Kavanaugh to do anything other than be a complete cuck and betray conservative values utterly.
Your Supreme Court has been taken over by the enemy.
Do you remember that period where we thought, this is great, we've finally got a Supreme Court where the majority are conservatives?
How did that work out?
I mean, we've been screwed, if you believe in conservatism, we've been screwed on every level.
Do you not share my despair slightly?
No, I would agree with you.
In fact, for as much Good that I think President Trump's administration did with remaking, I say remaking the federal court system, not that the structure changed, but that they got a lot of young conservatives put in at these different circuit court positions all around the country.
In fact, some of these young folks in their 30s and 40s will be there for a half century.
So a lot of that, I think, and look, President Trump, this isn't saying anything that he hasn't said himself, I think swung and missed on, you could say, Two, if not all three of his picks with regard to the Supreme Court, which is frustrating.
I think that that's largely a faction of some of the folks.
You know, take a look at Kavanaugh.
He had some kind of Bushies, so to speak, George W. Bush type people that were in President Trump's administration at the beginning who picked Kavanaugh.
And let's just be clear.
I mean, Kavanaugh, not only is he just weak, I mean, you can tell even just talking to the guy or seeing the guy that he's not someone who has a lot of fortitude.
He's not going to stand up.
And put aside that this has nothing to do with what I thought were ridiculous allegations of going back to him in high school, which I thought was just absurd.
And the fact he's been confirmed by these Democrats over and over for circuit court positions, and then they come back and try to say, oh, hey, 40 years ago.
Okay, I think that's a bunch of nonsense.
But just you can tell that Kavanaugh is not someone who's particularly has a lot of fortitude.
I mean, he's essentially a swamp creature.
He's a go-along to get along.
He's always going to be wanting to make sure who he's going to be sitting by for his Washington National Season tickets, the baseball team here in D.C.
And so you can just tell that he is not someone of the same cloth as, say, Justice Thomas or go into the Justice Alito, you know, the rock solid These are the conservatives, and we're not going to get the lions.
We did not get the lions.
We got kind of the sheep with regard to Kavanaugh and Gorsuch and Barrett, unfortunately.
I think some of their decisions over the past year have really, really bore that out.
But I do think that there are some very good picks at the circuit court level.
Some folks that I know personally That I think will be the lions as we go into the next couple of decades here.
But no, I share your frustration with some of the Supreme Court picks as well.
Yeah, well, now you're kind of talking my language, Jason.
I want to ask you something, because it's puzzled me.
So after what I consider to be the stolen election, I was living on hopium, as it now turns out.
President Trump had a plan and that, I mean, he gave us a clue.
He said, the best is yet to come.
And I was thinking, yeah, he's got to plan it.
And maybe it involves the Space Force because every other other branch of government has been suborned by the left.
I mean, you know, look at the Navy.
The Navy is more interested in diversity than it is in kind of fighting Chinese aircraft carriers and things it's it's everything is the whole system is is broken.
And then I went past the hopium stage and I realized he ain't got a plan or if he did have a plan the enemy the deep state is so powerful that that actually he can't he couldn't bring it off.
Now there are two theories that us sort of massive Trump fans have.
Either I'm sure you're going to disagree with this one.
Either he was really a swamp creature himself all along, that he was just another creature of the political system, just slightly less bad than Hillary would have been.
Or, it's that the swamp was so deep and wide, the system was so monstrously corrupt, that even though he came in there with good intentions, he was constantly undermined by his administration, by the GOP establishment.
Which is it?
So I'd say I think that the latter point, I definitely agree with the fact that even the people who pretend to be his strong allies, the people who have R by their name or Republican by their name on Capitol Hill, they're actually pretty weak.
I mean, the reality is, is that the vast majority of members of Congress, Republicans and Democrats, are largely ineffectual.
You know, it's really it's the, you know, you got about 10% of Congress that are the real fighters, the real champions, and the rest are kind of there to kind of steal oxygen, so to speak.
But I think there's also, with regard to some of the advice givers or some of the administration folks early on, I think there's also there are some people who really didn't have President Trump's vision in mind.
They were kind of looking ahead to their next their next job or their next swamp creature activity, so to speak.
But the other thing, too, is that, look, President Trump, I think, put his trust in some people early on in the administration that led him wrong.
So let me give an example.
When President Trump won 2016, obviously he talked about repealing Obamacare.
The monstrosity that his predecessor put into place.
You would have thought that Paul Ryan and House Republicans, then Speaker Paul Ryan, would have shown up at the inauguration and jumped out of a birthday cake like Marilyn Monroe, saying, here's your Obamacare repeal and replacement plan.
Let's go and do it.
We have a great plan.
We're going to do this.
We've passed literally the House GOP, and I might be a little inside baseball, kind of in the weeds for some of the folks in the UK, but the House Republicans had literally passed like 25 or 30 different Obamacare repeal bills in advance of President Trump's victory.
And then what we found out is everything that they passed was trash.
None of it worked.
None of it had really been modeled out.
They'd never really planned it out.
And so President Trump, when he arrived, they wasted a good two, three months of trying to push forward with some new legislation on that.
And they never ultimately were able to do it.
So I think there are a lot of folks that let him down that President Trump put some trust and confidence in, because he ultimately wanted to be a uniter, wanted to be someone to lead going forward.
But what he quickly learned is the swamp It's not even so much a Republican Democrat thing.
It's a change versus the status quo that the bureaucracies are so entrenched in Washington.
And President Trump's really the second outsider president ever.
Andrew Jackson being the first, President Trump being the second, who truly came in, didn't care what anyone else had to say, and was more than happy to light the drapes on fire to go and get the party started.
But it is hard to take on.
It's like going to Vegas and thinking you're going to beat the house.
But do you think he knew, for example, that Bill Barr was a snake?
Did he know that his own vice president was going to knife him in the back?
Did he trust these people?
Was he innocent or what?
I think he hoped for them to be the best, I think in particular with Barr.
I mean, look, Barr had been the final Attorney General for George H.W.
Bush back in 1992.
He lives in McLean, Virginia, in Tony McLean, Virginia, which is very much inside the Beltway and is as swamp as it gets.
I'm not sure if they have any actual alligators in McLean, but it completely wouldn't surprise me.
Um, and with regard to the vice president, uh, look, I am disappointed that the vice president didn't go and say that we could send some of these decisions back to the states to have, uh, the fraud and irregularities investigated.
I think in particular, um, and just go back to the three states in particular, uh, the, you know, president Trump only lost that Wisconsin state Supreme court decision four to three.
And it was really on kind of a technicality and a jurisdictional issue that they ruled against him, but showed with a preponderance that the way the fact that all these mail-in ballots were sent out without applications, that those were invalid ballots, so to speak.
He didn't get the decision, but it's clear that he was right.
There are continued questions with regard to Georgia and Arizona that I think would have shown some serious light, if not even potentially impacted the outcome of those particular state elections.
Um, and I wish the vice president had sent it back to the states.
So, uh, there were certain people I think that stepped up and, and did their best for the president.
There are certain people that let them down.
Uh, but it's, uh, I would still say that the overall, it's the most transformative, uh, first term presidency we've ever seen in, uh, us history.
Um, I hope he comes back and gives it another shot.
Uh, but it's, uh, I think he, he, if that is the case, he'll be much more wiser on who he puts in and who he puts trust in.
Right.
Yes.
Well, amen to that.
But I mean, who actually made these decisions?
Was it Trump or was it his kind of swampy advisors?
Good question.
Sometimes it would be a mix.
I mean, initially, keep in mind President Trump, because he had said, you know, he had been to, I think, Washington, D.C.
17 times in his life prior to coming in for the presidency.
And he had never even stayed overnight in Washington, D.C.
once.
This was not A world that he was well-versed in, as far as the personnel and the people like that.
Because quite frankly, Washington's a little bit of the Hollywood for ugly people, as they like to say.
That's where you have a lot of people who couldn't hack it and stay in the business world or in real life, go because they like to play politics.
And so President Trump, who's been someone who's been focused on Building a real estate empire, making money, being in entertainment and the media.
That's always been his focus.
And quite frankly, it didn't have some of the killers that you would have expected early on.
I think toward the end, he had a lot better.
I think Mark Meadows was by far his best chief of staff.
I think there are other people that he put in.
John McEntee, I think a personnel I think really did a good job over the final year on that.
If we'd had someone like John McEntee in that spot from the beginning, I think the administration would look much better, quite frankly.
So, you know, it's, look, it's frustrating on some of it turned out, but doesn't mean they didn't have a lot of accomplishments in that first four years.
Where are you on Bannon?
I mean, I'm quite a fan of the Steve.
I don't think Steve is swamp, even though he's ex Goldman Sachs.
I think he's one of the good guys.
And I was wondering whether maybe it was a mistake getting rid of him.
I think it would have been smart for President Trump to have Steve stay around.
Although I think at a certain point, I think Steve, I don't know how long Steve would have ultimately stayed just because Steve's just not the type of person who wants to put on me.
I know what you mean about Steve.
Steve's a non-conformer.
So just so folks know, Steve's a good longtime friend of mine, someone who's been a strong ally of mine.
We started the War Room podcast together.
So we did the War Room impeachment where he helped defend President Trump.
Then we started War Room Pandemic.
Which is brilliant.
I mean, War Room Pandemic was one of the best things to have come out, actually, of the last four years in America, I think.
You know, if it hadn't been for... I mean, maybe it gave us too much hope, because I listen to Steve, you know, and I kind of...
I thought that maybe Trump was going to pull something out of the woodwork yet, you know, right to the bitter end.
I couldn't quite believe it when, when, but yeah, Steve's a maverick figure, but, but Steve, that's Steve is untainted, I think, but bizarrely given, given some of his background, I mean, given that he's from the military, which I'm afraid is, is part of the swamp.
It really is, isn't it?
And, and Goldman Sachs.
I'd say military.
I'd say military leadership, especially as you take a look at General Mark Milley and the outrageous, in fact, I was on television a little bit earlier saying that he should be court-martialed.
He should be fired from his position as chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
And I think what Mark Milley is doing, I described him as the Robert Mueller of the US military.
Basically someone who's completely disrespected his entire profession by coming in there and throwing aside the notion that we're going to have unbiased, unpolitical people, nonpolitical people in the military.
And really what I think Millie is going to do is open up a whole generation of younger soldiers, men and women, who think it's okay to undermine the chain of command.
I think it's okay to speak out against superiors, even in a way that would harm the country or your mission that you have.
And so some of the, some of the career militaries from the generals at the top, the folks who got us into the endless wars.
I mean, take a look at even just the, you know, why were we in Afghanistan for 20 years?
You know, explain that one to me.
And so some of these things are.
But, you know, for the same reason that America got involved in the first Gulf War and the second Gulf War.
It's ultimately about oil and the military-industrial complex.
And we know the people who benefit from that.
You know, you mentioned the Bushes.
The Bushes are almost as bad as Obama, I think.
Which is why Trump was such a sort of breath of fresh air.
You know, you make a really good point.
And the one thing I'd add on that, that was a line that President Trump and I worked together on in 2016, is that he was running as an indictment of the failed politicians from both parties.
And the one thing that we would always do, and some of the biggest applause you would get, he wouldn't necessarily just get up there and say, Obama was bad, and then Clinton was bad.
He'd get up there and say, Obama and Bush and Clinton Yeah, totally, totally.
this was an outsider insider construct that he was running against the entrenched forces the status quo that right there we would get he would get almost bigger cheer lines when he would criticize george w bush then even throwing out say like a bill clinton because that was the signal to people say you know what this isn't just some r versus d republican versus democrat thing this is acknowledgement that the elected officials from both parties have failed americans yeah totally totally um yeah tell me
maybe you can't answer this question but i've a lot of us have wondered why did he not invoke the insurrection act um Given that there must have been so much NSA evidence to show that foreign interference, in all manner of means, via the Dominion machines, the stuff going on in Italy, why did this never get used?
So I know that some of this I can speak to some of it can't just for the simple fact that I was on the campaign side and not in the White House side.
And so there were certain conversations he'd have with, say, for example, his general counsel, some of his lawyers, I wasn't privy to or I wouldn't have been invited into because it would have violated some of the attorney client privilege and some of some of those constructs.
But I think that especially when we talk about the the investigation, some of the fraud, I don't see Any excuse for why Bill Barr didn't actually go and do anything about these clear irregularities that we saw.
And there was that stretch between November 3rd and then ultimately January 6th.
The electoral votes are formally counted, and that's the formal process two weeks done before the new president or the current president would be sworn in.
They had that two full months there to go and do it, and Barr did nothing.
So as far as specific to the Insurrection Act, I can't speak to just because I don't know on the exact legal parameters if that was the right thing.
But what I can say is that it was disgraceful that Barr never did anything on election fraud.
Yeah, I think when you look at who Barr's father was, it sort of slightly becomes becomes clearer.
I mean, he's, you know, he is a swamp.
He is a swamp creature through and through.
But yeah, it was very frustrating.
I was just wondering whether perhaps people were saying in the last days of Trump's administration that there were certain worm-tongue type figures who had his ear and were preventing anyone from getting through to give him independent advice.
So he was captured, he was surrounded by swamp towards the end and even if he had taken the, was tempted to take the brave and principled decision to go for the insurrection, because it would have been brave, that he was ill counseled.
Have you heard that?
I've definitely heard criticisms of that nature.
Again, specific to the Insurrection Act, just since I'm not a lawyer and I Can't pretend to know the exact intricacies of that.
I got to punt a little bit on that one, but I can say that there were, if you look to DOJ, the Department of Justice is one big swamp apparatus.
And it's basically the way it works is that if President Trump wanted to do something such as claim down on the Black Lives Matter violence from the summer of 2020, They would do nothing when it came to the statue topplers.
They would do nothing when it came to the Antifa rioters in a number of these cities.
They would do nothing.
And I never quite understood.
But if President Trump were to go and say, pick up the phone and say, hey, Bill, why don't you get the people on and go and take care of this?
Of course, that's meddling in justice.
And so it's it's one of those, I think, for many in the media and the swamp, A heads that they win, tails Trump loses, as far as what the standard is for where he can go and try to put the levers.
But it seems to me that when we're talking about such basic things as keeping people safe, making sure that elections are not rigged or not completely misformed, that seems to be a common good.
I don't see where that's a partisan issue.
Yeah, so just tell me a bit about, on a personal level, what it was like for you?
Because you're clearly, you know, on the same team as me.
You're a Trump fan, a Trump loyalist, you know, you're coming from the right side of the argument.
You believe in liberty and due process and all the things that we thought America stood for, right?
What was it like seeing this kind of The Trump dream, the thing we all wanted, we got the guy we wanted in the White House, in the Oval Office, and all around him he's being undermined and... Wasn't it frustrating?
It was frustrating.
Yeah, it was greatly frustrating.
And I'll tell you that the great thing about President Trump, this is something that he doesn't get near enough credit for, is that since he's not looking at things through a political lens, it really Oh, things up to him making such better decisions for the country.
And so you think that, you know, there were all the doomsday scenarios of Trump is going to, you know, the Middle East is going to erupt into violence.
It's going to, you know, start World War Three and Trump got Middle East peace.
They said that what President Trump was doing with regard to trade type issues, You can't do that.
You can't go and you're going to jack up the cost of a flat screen TV in the US by a couple hundred dollars and the citizens will pick up their pitchforks and come after you.
Actually folks pumped their fist and said, yeah, why do we, why we completely undermine and obliterated our own tech industries on behalf of having again, flat screens that are one or $200 cheaper.
So seeing the way that he would cut through, These supposed third rails of politics where they say, Oh, you can't touch this.
You can't, this isn't a reform that you can do his ideas.
And is there really is the clarity with which he would see the solution and just cut right through and say, I don't care who it upsets, or I don't care who in the beltway or who in the swamp it upsets.
This is what people want.
And the fact that there weren't enough people who bought into that vision, especially at the outset of the administration.
But there's one other thing too, James, I want to make sure that we don't lose sight of.
President Trump has made it pretty clear that he really had two jobs during his time as president.
And I think he's being spot on here.
One was to go and govern, to do the job as president.
The other was to survive.
You think about the Russia hoax at the beginning.
You think about the Mueller witch hunt, which took up two and a half years of his presidency.
You think about impeachment hoax one.
You think about impeachment hoax two.
The constant Constant efforts to undermine the credibility and legitimacy of his presidency, to have him caught up in legal drama, and have his staff and everyone around him caught up in dealing with all these investigative-type issues that had nothing, no basis in fact.
Even in his post-presidency, we see this idiocy coming from Uh, Cy Vance and the Manhattan DA's office where they spend years investigating him.
They spend tens of millions of dollars and then they go after a 73 year old CFO for supposedly not paying taxes on free parking spaces, which you're, I mean, Letitia James, the attorney general of New York.
So people understand this.
She campaigned in 2018 saying she was going to lock Trump up.
Think about this.
The attorney general at, you know, lawmakers or, you know, or law enforcer The chief law enforcement agent of the state of New York running for office saying, I'm going to lock up Trump.
But it's okay because it's New York and she's a lib and she doesn't like Trump so she can say it.
But that's what President Trump faced through all four years of his presidency and even beyond.
And as he likes to say, as soon as he came down that escalator, they started the investigations.
And guess what?
Every single one of them have fallen flat on their face.
It's just because they hate his politics.
Yeah, that's a fair enough comment that what he did was he interrupted the 12-year plan because it was going to be, wasn't it, it was going to be two terms of Obama and then it was going to be two terms of Obama's placement.
Obama was going to control Hillary Clinton and that's how it was going to be and Trump derailed that and also he didn't get assassinated which is which I find pretty amazing given how Completely corrupt your whole, you know, the FBI, the CIA, everything that, you know, I mean, amazing, amazing.
But is there, is there any hope for America?
Okay, so let's go to, let's go, go to Getter.
Is, by the way, is Trump going to be on Getter?
Is he on it already?
I hope we get him.
He's not, he's not on Getter at the moment.
We've had several conversations about it.
I've been pushing him pretty good, but I also know having worked for President Trump that You push him to a certain extent, let him come to the decision on his own.
Uh, I know he has a couple other offers to join other platforms, but look, the fact that we're at a million and a half users after a week and a half is the fastest to a million in social media history around the world.
Um, and not only do we have a. We have president Bolsonaro from Brazil.
Uh, his son Flavio joined the platform.
It's about four, like I said earlier, 45% us, 15% Brazil.
It's truly a global platform.
The cool thing about that is, look, it doesn't matter what country you wake up in, it doesn't matter if you're waking up in the US and you're mad at Silicon Valley, if you're waking up in Hong Kong and you're mad at the CCP, if you're waking up in India and you're ticked off at Twitter for messing with Prime Minister Modi, the desire for free speech, the anger towards These big tech oligarchs, it really plays into this kind of the elites versus the working men and women that we saw at President Trump's election.
Then we saw with the lean vote that we're seeing in all these pushbacks around the world.
People are fighting mad about what they see the elites doing and trying to control everyone's thought.
And so the beach is there.
Yeah.
No, well, I mean, I agree with your analysis that there is this.
Massive proportion of the population around the world, which feels very hard done by by the political system.
I mean, it's extraordinary what it must like to be an American conservative right now, knowing that the president you voted for is not in the Oval Office, you know, knowing that President Trump probably got more votes than any presidential candidate in history.
And he was beaten by a senile crook who didn't even go on the campaign trail because people were so frightened of putting me out there in case he made another of his multiple gaffes.
So And you've got this government which is trying to destroy the Second Amendment and disarm you.
I mean, okay, so having a free speech site like Getter, okay, it's a crumb of consolation.
But the evil out there is so big, isn't it?
I mean, you've got Zuckerberg.
I hadn't realized this until recently.
Mark Zuckerberg sees himself as Caesar Augustus.
That's his ambition.
He's already more powerful than any president.
He spent $300 million bribing judges to get them on side before the election.
How does one beat the forces of darkness when they are so powerful and rich?
Well, the exact same way that we did in 2016.
That we're able to Get that message across.
We had avenues that went outside the traditional media.
So there are a couple different ways that we could go here.
Obviously, I'm frustrated.
I'm fighting mad.
What I decided to do was let me go and work with some folks to help kick off a social media company that we can go and use the free market to give people an outlet.
Because here's the other thing.
Yeah.
Things could be suboptimal is one way to say it, or not that great with some of the Uh, the crises, whether it be the Biden hyperinflation or the crisis at the border, Middle East, all these things that Joe Biden has caused, we can either curl up in a ball and say, Hey, we're going to quit.
Uh, you know, things are terrible.
Maybe we'll move to Canada, uh, or, uh, you know, or some things that like the libs all liberals always say.
Or we'd go and come up with our platform to make sure that they're never able to de-platform us.
They're never going to censor us.
They're never going to tell us to be sheep.
They're never going to tell us to just listen, uh, to treat, uh, his Lord and savior.
Anthony Fauci, uh, is the, uh, the, the one true God.
Um, this is, uh, this is not the way that I think people with free speech and who really value independent thought, uh, want to go.
And so that's why I helped to create Getter and get this out there.
So we have this system.
As we see the growth and it continues to get bigger and bigger, people will have that place to go.
They will have that digital marketplace where we can have this sharing of ideas.
Because I think it'd be a shame if we just quit right now and said, eh, you know, they really point down a lot of our political thoughts.
We're going to throw in the towel.
No, we're going to come up with a platform that's bigger, better, more beautiful than anything that the big tech oligarchs ever came up with.
And it's going to be fun.
How are you going to monetize it?
So a couple of things.
We'll probably start some online advertising Q1 of next year as we go into 2022.
But then also, as we continue to build community, we do want to move in more to the crypto and blockchain aspects of this.
I think that some of the e-commerce dynamics are going to be really big.
And also, I think there's a way so many people are rightfully worried about whether it be the AliPays or the ApplePays of the world that are seemingly dominate many of the financial services.
We do think that a getter pay feature, which would be something that's much more inexpensive for people, that's not selling or sharing your data, Uh, and the way that we see, uh, these other, uh, again, like Apple Pay and Alipay doing it.
I think we can, we can go and actually beat the liberals at their own game and give people who trust in free speech, uh, another option, another possible platform.
And so, um, the, so the advertising would be a smaller component, but I think like I said, the e-commerce, the blockchain, the crypto aspects of things, you know, one of the things I see, James, this kind of goes right to where somewhere I think you'd be interested in.
Um, This quarter, we're going to be adding in an online tipping or online appreciation feature.
So, for example, someone's watching your show or watching, listening to the podcast, they can go and they see a post on Getter that's from you.
Hey, here's today's.
Today we had a hot fire show.
I rumbled with Jason Miller, whoever the guest of the day might be.
Folks can just hit an icon and maybe they want to tip you five bucks or ten dollars or obviously pounds.
But, you know, I'm saying and some denomination that they have preset.
So then you're able to then monetize through an additional new channel, you're able to monetize the content that you're coming up with that.
Content creators on the platform.
And so, and again, you see how much that some of the companies take out for doing the payment processing, we do it much cheaper, we'll do it more efficiently.
And so that'll be another thing that comes online this quarter.
Yeah, no, that's good because it seems to me that the world doesn't so much need a new social media platform, although I'm glad it's there.
Speaking on behalf of conservative content creators, the thing that really frightens us about, I don't want to give the secrets away to the enemy, but actually they know already, is that they get us at the payment stage.
So when PayPal, for example, won't take donations, it cuts you off from your audience.
That seems to be the weak link in the chain, and it seems that the financial industry is as woke as anywhere.
So how do you get around that?
I mean, okay, crypto is one route, but you still need to convert your crypto into fiat at some stage, you know, and if you haven't got a bank account, whatever.
So how do you get around that?
Well, and again, as we start going to our own payment processing, and as we start going to our own, as we start developing more of the back end in the infrastructure, in fact, the folks who had a call with immediately before jumping on to join you is how we're going to go and set up so people can do online political contributions on getter without the say the candidate or the person running for office having to go and say,
Please give me money and basically be a digital panhandler, putting up a link where there'll be that option where people can just go and actually hit an icon in the corner.
And, hey, I like what this person is saying.
I like what they believe in.
I want to go and contribute to them and make it very easy.
And so we're working through those back ends and we're setting those up with the companies and the systems that can go to the back end.
They can't be canceled or deplatformed just because simply they don't like your politics.
James, you make a really good point here because the single biggest thing that I've learned in the couple of months I've been on board with Getter and as I've kind of moved into this new space is just how much big tech and big media – Uh, have the system rigged.
And I'm not talking about like the Washington DC.
I'm talking about.
Not even just the U S I'm talking about the world, the way that the backend, whether it be the web hosting, the way the phones work, the way the email distribution works, all of the foundational infrastructure for almost everything we do in commerce today, the people who don't like your free speech can flip a switch and turn you off.
And it's that simple.
And because they have the media on their side.
There's no one who's going to stand up and say, hey, this is wrong.
Because again, if you're woke and you're serving your corporate masters, you're helping some Wall Street corporation, you're helping the FANG stocks in some aspect.
And you're fighting Nazis as well.
Because after all.
We have to set up our own back end.
We have to set up our own infrastructure if we're going to make sure that our voice, and that's the key, and James can bring this full circle, is it's not as simple as just your free speech.
It's not as simple as just your social media platform.
It is the ability to make sure that you can share your voice, that you can have some independent thought within this digital town square, so to speak, In a way that cannot be canceled or turned off.
And that's not just a couple of words here or there.
It's the entire system.
So while it seems like it's just a start with a social media company, again, fastest growing in world history.
So, you know, I think we've done a pretty good job of that.
This is the start.
This is the start of how we set up to make sure that we will never be told that we're not allowed to read about the Hunter Biden story.
That we're never going to find ourselves like President Trump being de-platformed.
Is the President of the United States to say that he no longer has a First Amendment right in the United States on any social media platform?
That's outrageous.
Yeah.
Okay.
But we all share the same goals.
I suppose what I'm asking you is, is it possible?
Is it doable?
You mentioned, okay, so you've got the payment processes.
You've got the servers.
What are the other areas where they can cut you off?
Because there are all these links in the chain.
Are there enough... So the one... Yeah, I'll tell you, the only place... Look, I mean, there are areas kind of all over where they can try to cause problems, or people who don't believe in free speech.
The only thing that there's really no direct... The place where there's a little bit of a weak link is, say, with the Apple iOS.
A phone system.
And that's for the simple fact.
And again, some people might be nerds on this stuff like myself, or they might not realize some of the complexities.
If you have, say, a Samsung Galaxy or Google Android, you can put any app that you want on your phone.
You can go to a website, you can go to Google Play, maybe it's on the store, maybe it's not.
But even if it's not, you go to a website, it's what they call an open system.
So you can go and just download it directly from the website and you have the app on your phone.
So you're good to go.
Apple has a closed environment.
What that means is that they're the judge, jury, and executioner for what can be on the phone.
So you might remember Fortnite, the video game, which my 12-year-old absolutely schools me in, and I'm the worst Fortnite player, I think, in Boomer history.
But Apple decided that they didn't like, and again, for them it wasn't a speech issue, it was just a percentage of the splits, they decided to turn off Fortnite.
And Fortnite was de-platformed We saw it with, say, the social media app Parler, where they decided that they didn't like how Parler was handling their moderation policy and they turned them off.
Apple can flip the switch and say, your app is no longer available in our iOS platform and you can be kicked off.
That is the one thing.
Now, going to the infrastructure, they're moving people to, you know, no one's going to stand up and be like, rah, rah, we've got to all go get the Samsung Galaxy.
And that's kind of a, that doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.
And it's not so much of a rallying cry.
There are folks who've started trying to launch new, say, new phones.
The Freedom phone.
Which I actually have one just sitting on my shelf.
What do you reckon?
Is that the answer?
Because I've been championing it, but people say, oh, it's just kind of dodgy Chinese technology and blah, blah, blah.
And other people say, yeah, but hang on, you can get all the apps that you can't get on iPhone.
I don't know.
But it's promising, isn't it?
I have it.
The concept, look, I applaud anyone who's trying to come up with new methods and who's willing to make that big expenditure outlay on the infrastructure end, but we have to have additional outlets, additional infrastructure that can't be turned off.
And so, again, like I said, it's sitting on my shelf at the moment, so I just got to power it up and go check out the phone.
But, you know, credit to Eric Finman.
I agree.
And Ben Q and all these folks who are going to do it, and I applaud ingenuity.
And I'll give you my customer review next time we talk, as Ben's been blowing me up saying, hey, when are you going to turn this thing on?
I go, trust me, as soon as I get five free minutes, I'll do it.
Well, don't steal my share of sales, because I too want to be promoting the Freedom Phone.
Look, here is my Freedom Phone.
I've got it here.
I haven't turned it on yet.
That's my weekend project.
My weekend project is to get smart on the Freedom Phone.
Okay, so apart from that Apple issue, you can reassure me, can you, that there are white hats in the payment processing industry who are not going to shut us conservatives off, for example?
Yeah, and there are additional that are on the way.
There are a couple places right now that are pretty good and there are some more that are coming.
And so that is, look, it's, you know, we're Some people are starting to get a little bit more courage and also too, I think, realizing that there's a lane in the market for people who are going to say, you know what, I'm someone who's not going to go and play the political BS.
But the overwhelming majority, yeah, they'll find a way to knock you off the pedestal if they think you get slightly out of line.
For their standards, I should say.
There's one thing that suddenly occurred to me that I must ask you.
Trump and the vaccines.
For me, that was the biggest mistake of his entire presidency, because by buying into the Fauci narrative, which he did, he was essentially endorsing the production, the rushed mass production of a product, which I think is going to come back to bite us horribly, both in terms of the adverse reactions, in terms of the
The path that it creates towards vaccine passports, which are, after all, a form of control by the globalist New World Order.
What was he playing at?
Did he have no other option?
What's going on there?
I think the single biggest aspect of that is this whole debate on the elites versus the working class was only being exacerbated during COVID.
And it was fine if you're Fauci or Joe Biden or the people are obviously the UK has had its own frustrations.
Actually, I was going to try to come over next week for the spectator conference that they're putting together.
But then I guess there's there's still the 10 day quarantine unless I get an actual UK jab.
I think I have to get both UK jabs in the UK doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter that I've been vaccinated here that it's so anyway, so I won't be there next week.
I'll be over in the in the fall.
But I think what President Trump saw was tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of businesses that were shut down and will never recover, whether it be restaurants or the working people, you know, the someone who's a bus driver, someone who's like my father was a welder.
They're not salaried.
They can't just sit at home and say, hey, we're on lockdown.
We'll be fine.
We can just, you know, I'll zoom into my welding job today.
I'll zoom into my bus route that I'm driving, or I'll zoom into my restaurant.
President Trump saw people that were hurting and that were suffering, and we had to go and try to get life back to normal.
Yeah, fine, if you're on Wall Street, you can take your laptop and go home and do some day trading from home.
But yeah, President Trump was trying to finally get life back to normal.
And by pushing ahead the production of the vaccine, that was the best route.
That he believed in, which I agree with him that we were going to go and get there.
Now, to your point, though, there's a lot of truth in what you're saying about kind of the their narrative.
And that's because the look, it was fine when Kamala Harris and Joe Biden were being, quote, unquote, anti-vaxxers.
And they were saying, oh, I'd never trust any any vaccine that that was developed under Trump.
But then as soon as Biden wins, then they turn around and say, oh, well, it's the Trump people that won't go and get the Uh, the jab in the United States.
And so they're the ones who are making the problem worse.
So the media plays along with that and tries to again, go to that heads.
We win tails, Trump loses.
Uh, but president Trump, his underlying motivation there was there are millions, hundreds of millions of people around the country who can't just sit at home on a salary, um, and do their job from a laptop to actually have to get out, interact with people.
The only way we're going to get them back is to have this vaccine available.
So we can get kids back to schools.
We can.
Get people out and about, get these businesses up and running again.
That was his big concern is that people were and their thing too is the mental health aspect.
The fact of the depression, the suicide rates, all the things we saw from people being told you just stay at home.
That really concerned the president.
Yeah, no, I get the theory.
I just think, you know, if he was really the 5D chess player that he was cracked up to be, he would have seen it from the position, well, the only right position actually, I believe.
Which is that the whole of the pandemic, the whole of this thing was created in order to stop him becoming president again, getting him a second term.
It was orchestrated by Big Pharma, by the media.
The pandemic happened not because there was a deadly new bug going around, because after all, if you look at the death figures, they're no worse than any other baddish flu year this was orchestrated all these responses the lockdowns and stuff was cooked up in order that the the different states could adjust their game their electoral system so that trump didn't get in so he had more postal ballots and stuff and i don't know i think if trump was clever as people think he is and hope he is
he would have seen that and he'd have called out the He would have said, look, I see what's going on, but look at the statistics, look at the death figures, look at Sweden, and he'd have said, I'm not buying this.
It would have been a massive gamble, a huge political gamble, but it would have been the right thing to do.
No?
So it would have been a gamble.
I do think that The overwhelming thing in the election was that people want to get life back to normal.
And they were sick and tired of being in the lockdowns and things being shut down.
And I think that President Trump, even though he's a billionaire, he lives in New York when he's not, or prior to the presidency.
Now he's a proud Florida resident, Florida man.
Yeah, best place to be right now.
Well, right now, July in Florida is a little toasty.
In the winter and in the spring, it's a good place to be.
It's a little too hot right now.
But I think President Trump is someone who, you know, he grew up going to his dad's construction sites and walking around and checking out the real estate developments and, you know, figuring out how to build an A-frame and doing all these things with the, you know, the hardhats and the guys who brought the lunch pails to work.
And that's really, he thinks most people in Washington are idiots.
And the real knowledge comes from people who show up and get their hands dirty every day.
And when he saw these people losing their businesses, their lives, their careers, their families, his goal was trying to get life back to normal.
So I think he moved at extraordinary speed.
And so we might disagree on this one, but his motivation and his passion, it was pretty clear he wanted to help people.
Look, given how rigged the system is, and it is totally, I mean, presume the Dominion machines, for example, are they going to be allowed in the next, I suppose, states decide what equipment they use.
So, you know, I'm going to ask you, does Trump have a chance of another term?
But in a way, it's hard to know because Is it possible that somebody like Trump could ever get back, given the system is so stacked, given that you can have more votes than any presidential candidate in history and still lose now?
Absolutely.
I mean, they said it was impossible that President Trump could never win the first time, and we did.
And I also think that when you look at all the problems that Joe Biden has caused now, we're still in that little bit of that honeymoon phase or in the Hey, don't worry that Joe Biden is senile and is causing all these problems.
At least it's not Trump.
Kind of that mindset that many in the media are in.
Look, 2024 is an eternity away.
Right now, President Trump would be the Republican nominee.
I still think one or two years from now, he'll be the Republican nominee if he wants to do it as well.
So I hope he comes back.
I hope we see him again.
I'm glad to have launched Getter as a platform.
Uh, if he's looking to how can I still get my voice out?
Uh, he'll have, uh, there'll be a platform like getter for him to go and join.
So I hope he comes back.
We'll see.
But I have a feeling he'll keep his guest until 2023.
Great.
Jason, thank you so much for coming on The Delling Pod.
May I remind people that if you like this stuff, you can support me on Patreon, on Subscribestar, and on my dellingpoleworld.com website, where you can buy a special friend gem.
You will find me shortly on Getter with my golden chariot, which I believe is what you get when you're really, really special.
And my crown, is that right?
Do I get a crown?
Let me talk to the designers.
Might need a little bit of artwork that we put in there, but our graphics team is great, so I'll come up with a crown for you.
It'll be a special icon for your page.
Let me go talk to the team.
And good luck with that monetizing element as well.
I think that's really important.
And yeah, I like I like Fiat and I like crypto as well.
I'm that kind of guy.
So thank you Jason.
Good.
Great to see you sir.
I appreciate it.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
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