Dec. 10, 2025 - The Truth Central - Dr. Jerome Corsi
56:57
Susan Olsen Unfiltered with Dr Jerome Corsi
Hollywood rarely tells the full truth — but Susan Olsen, actress and former talk radio host, is doing exactly that.Best known for her iconic role on The Brady Bunch, Susan Olsen joins Dr. Jerome Corsi on The Truth Central for a wide-ranging, no-holds-barred conversation about fame, politics, censorship, crime, culture, and the hidden realities inside Hollywood — then and now.In this powerful interview, Susan and Dr. Corsi discuss:🔥 Hollywood & Cancellation• Why Susan was cancelled from a recent Brady Bunch reboot• How modern Hollywood punishes dissenting voices• The price of speaking openly in today’s entertainment industry🔥 Life as a Child Star• Growing up on one of the most famous TV shows in history• How creator Sherwood Schwartz protected his young stars• Why the Brady kids were shielded from the worst of Hollywood• The importance of education and discipline on set🔥 COVID Lockdowns & Government Power• Susan’s firsthand experiences during the COVID shutdowns• Media fear campaigns and public control• What the entertainment industry demanded behind closed doors🔥 Crime, Immigration & Politics• Illegal immigration policy• Crime exploding in Democrat-run cities• Government corruption and unequal justice• Why everyday Americans feel abandoned by leadershipSusan Olsen delivers a rare inside look at how Hollywood really works — then connects it to what’s happening now across politics, media, crime, and culture.This is one of the most candid celebrity interviews ever featured on Corsi Nation.🎬 Susan Olsen on IMDB👉 https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001582/🌐 Corsi Nation Official Links🌐 Website: https://www.corsination.com📰 Substack: https://jeromecorsiphd.substack.com/🌐 The Truth Central: https://www.thetruthcentral.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/corsi-nation--5810661/support.
These things with faggot function, will help you to perfect atmosphere and will be a beautiful julegave.
Yes, maybe you can't find any faggot there you live, but maybe you can find something else.
For example, your own home-sit's parents.
Kaja, who's just out to lift the fish.
But you may ask if you want to go a little bit.
And who knows what's going on.
If you have our julegave locally, you will help you to small boutiques, and you will help you to create a live location.
God Jul!
Hilsen Sparebank 1, Östlandet.
FIKEN is a simple simple program for companies.
But did you also start your own business with FIKEN?
Do you do it with thousands of others and register AS and Enkelpersonforetaker tryggt and easy to fill out the schema on FIKEN.no.
They help you all the way to a registered business.
You don't need to be the kund of FIKEN from before and you choose to use your own business.
The tjenest doesn't cost anything extra.
FIKEN.
Start your own business.
Super simple.
This is Dr. Jerome Corsi and we've got a really special guest with us today, Susan Olson.
How are you, Susan?
I'm fine.
I'm really thrilled to be here.
You are the man that saved my sanity during COVID.
Okay, well, we'll talk about that.
Susan is known for being Cindy on the Brady Bunch, right?
Yes.
How old were you?
When it started, I guess when we did the first episode, I was seven.
And by the time we did the last episode, I was 12.
But the thing kept coming back in different forms.
It was like the show that wouldn't die.
Well, I'm sure that Chris will set up to play the theme, which everybody knows.
Good, good and post.
I'm sure you don't want to hear it again.
Everybody knows it, though, right, Chris?
So I'm sure he's getting something queued up here, so we'll probably hear the theme.
Here we go.
Brady Bunch.
There's the Brady Bunch.
This is the good version where we're not singing.
You're not what?
We're not singing.
No, you're not singing.
There's a band called The Peppermint Trolley.
You want to play it, Chris?
If you could play it, otherwise, we could look at it.
There we go.
In color.
So this must be later on, right?
No, this is early.
This is the first.
First season.
So this is 1968.
1968.
There we go.
And that's definitely the better version of the song.
And my son, who is a much better musician than I says it's in a different key.
In a different key.
When we came in and sang it, well, we've all heard this.
Okay, Chris, that's probably enough.
We got the MH.
We got it.
So, first of all, I've got to ask you, how was it to do the show?
What was your experience doing the show?
It was great fun.
I mean, I wouldn't recommend it for every kid.
I think that we were all kind of different and being professional children, having a job at young ages, was normal for us.
It was okay for us.
I do teach acting for children, and I'm honest with parents.
And I'll say, I, you know, I don't, I don't think he'd really enjoy it or say, well, you know, this way, hey, yeah, this one's got it.
And fortunately, where I teach, the parents are not into exploiting their kids.
They're not, you know, they're not trying to make stars out of them.
I teach mostly so that they will have more confidence and be able to speak for themselves.
Well, I'm sure it had to be quite an experience to be, you know, thrown into a job and perform all the time.
I'm sure this was a constant thing, having to learn lines and rehearse and do the shows.
Well, that's what I wanted.
I wanted, by the ripe age of six, I wanted a steady job.
And I wanted to be on a series.
I wanted to be a series regular so I could do this every day.
Did you become Cindy?
No, not at all.
I hated Cindy.
I didn't like her very much.
I thought she was really stupid.
And she did awful things like tattle on people, which is something I would never do.
But, you know, as a child, I was very kind of offended by the things Cindy would do while she was inhabiting my body on TV.
But I mean, that's just me being nitpicky and being a child that has to go back to public school and get teased for everything that Cindy does.
You know, it's bad enough I do something stupid, which happens frequently.
But, you know, to get teased for what Cindy did was kind of unfair.
Well, and so you, when did the show end for you?
When did you quit doing the show?
Well, it got canceled in stuff.
It's like 72, I think.
68 is like four years.
68 was when we did the pilot and those, the footage that you saw, but it didn't air until 69.
So 69, 70.
Well, 69.
It got canceled.
Okay, 68, of course, was a critical year.
It was a year the conventions were going on in Chicago.
We had riots.
The Democratic National Convention, the first time.
but ask if you can go on a little tour.
And who knows what's going on?
If it's a year's julegave local, so we're going to set the small boutique, same as you're going to create a live location.
God jul.
Hilsen Sparebank 1, Östlandet.
Yeah, I year's year's day on a Wednesday, so there's 22nd and 23rd inneklemt, and so 1. January on a Thursday, so if you have a free Friday, and in addition to you're going to get a lot of pain, so this is an all-for-long juleferie.
With your support, can Stine Sofie's Stiftels give more children a Trygg Jul, send Trygg til 2160 for å gi 200 kroner.
Lyndon Johnson had just said he would not run for re-election.
We had the Brady family and the Manson family.
The Brady family and the Manson family.
The Manson family was also their insanity of killing people out in California.
And those were the years through 72, 72, 73 would have been the first year of the Nixon administration.
Yeah.
And again, the country was still involved with Vietnam.
The Vietnam protests were still going on.
I had a brother in Vietnam.
Did he survive?
Yes.
And was he wounded or injured?
No, no.
He was in Army intelligence.
So he was mostly interrogating prisoners and not seeing frontline battle.
But he was in the TED Offense.
Almost everybody was in the TED Offensive.
It was pretty much nationwide, certainly all through South Vietnam.
It must have been in that period of time for you acting and the politics going on and the show, which really was not political at all.
So it had to be kind of a juxtaposition between the turmoil in the country and this bubble that was the Brady Bunch.
Yeah, but if you I think that the goal of the show was to be written it was a family show from the perspective of a child, the way a child would want to see their family.
And so it was very idyllic.
And it got more popular after its original run, when it was in reruns.
And I think it's really a generation of latch key kids that made it huge because it was this dream family.
It was the ideal.
Cindy loses her doll and the whole family is just going nuts trying to find the doll.
Dad's calling from work.
Have you found the doll?
Well, I've gone through that.
I've gone through that with the daughter and losing a doll or losing, it could be a really traumatic event for a family that is.
Well, you're a good dad.
You know that.
I know that.
I spent many times looking for a missing doll.
It is traumatic.
But so many kids are like, well, nobody's around to really care.
And so, I mean, there are countless people that are.
Well, for kids at that age, the doll is alive.
The doll's a real person.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not, you know, a doll.
It's, it's, you've lost a friend.
Yes.
And you've lost your security.
Yes.
Because I never liked dolls, but I had stuffed animals.
Well, in fact, my daughter's was a stuffed animal too.
So it was not a doll, but it was the same thing.
Right.
And I lost one at my TV dad's house.
I left him behind.
We traveled internationally and lost this, and we had to go search all over for it.
I mean, it was, if it didn't get packed, it was always on the checklist to make sure we, you know, we had the stuffed figure that had to be there.
It had a name.
I can't even remember today what the name was, but it was a particular, everybody was looking for this named entity that was, you know, and it was by the time we found it, it was pretty ragged.
I mean, this had been through the wars.
It was not in great shape anymore after years and years and years.
But the politics started.
It might be in horrible shape.
Yeah.
Well, you still have it.
I'm not sure my daughter does.
So through the period of political turmoil, we had Nixon resigning and then we had Carter in and we had the, I mean, this was a very tumultuous time in American history when we were coming out of the Martin Luther King with his entire civil rights movement.
And then we had John Kennedy killed.
We had Martin Luther King killed in 1968.
I think it was in March.
And Robert Kennedy was killed that same year when he was running for president and probably would have been president.
I think so, yes.
He was well on his way to being president.
He had just won the Oregon primary and won the California primary.
And he was headed to the convention in Chicago when he got killed.
This was the night that he won California.
Yeah.
And I felt guilty the next day.
Why did you feel guilty?
Because my mother and I were going to the polling place and I was chanting a vote for Kennedy's, a vote for a dope, which I'd made up myself.
I thought it was so clever.
I just knew that my parents were against, they were very Republican, but looking back now, they really were not socially conservative.
It was more fiscally conservative.
And then when I found out, you know, I got up the next morning and wanted to know who won.
And mom told me what happened.
I was like, oh, I feel so bad for chanting that.
But, you know, as a child, I was five years old.
Well, he's a Democrat.
And I didn't feel that way again until the most recent four or five years.
I really wasn't that partisan.
Well, and you have become much more political.
I'm very political now.
Yeah.
And in fact, what happened when they wanted to remake the reboot the Brady Bunch, I'm sure that you were approached to being the adult version of the show.
Yes, and we all were working on our characters.
And we had a great, a great showrunner who's like the head writer.
And he came up with a character, which is basically me, but an exaggerated version of me.
And so she's a libertarian.
She has a podcast because in a previous incarnation of the show, I'd been a radio DJ.
It rescues animals, a little eccentric and very much against big pharma.
And so it looked kind of like everything that I am, but a little bit more so.
And anyway, so I mean, I wasn't supposed to be playing a woke person.
And so our political leanings came into the storyline.
And Greg was a Republican.
And one of the things in the treatment was you would think that Cindy and Greg would be on the same page, but they're not.
I thought, okay, that's really insightful.
And so anyway, then, you know, CBS was ready to possibly greenlight it.
And then they heard that I had gotten in trouble for an incident which was called a homophobic incident.
It was really a fake story.
It was a non-story, but the mainstream media likes those the best.
And so they decided to investigate me.
Well, I had had a political show, so I expressed a lot of views, all of which they hated.
And they said, you know, they talked about putting, there's a whole two-hour interview with me with Brandon Stracha, who started the walk away movement.
And, you know, it was, well, you know, maybe they talked about re-education, actually, which was more about how would I speak of things that came up.
And anyway, you know, finally it was decided now she's just too far.
She's too dangerous.
She's too political.
Hate speech.
You're too much hate speech, right?
Exactly.
And that's what they will say.
Even though like the initial incident, all of this really was triggered.
Like I was doing political stuff, but it was really, really triggered when I endorsed Donald Trump.
Right.
And I didn't even mean it all that earnestly back then.
It was just I thought that Hillary was the most evil person on the planet, and anything would be better than her.
And it was my sister who said to me, She goes, I'm going to vote for Donald Trump.
I'm like, okay, stay put.
I'll be right over.
I'll take you to the ER.
How hard did you hit your head?
And then, you know, I read his book, Crippled America.
Dang, I agree with him.
I agree with him a lot.
So I didn't think he'd win, but it was after he won, and everybody was all angry.
And so, you know, I think that was the root of my sins.
And I'll stand behind them.
Well, I've got a couple.
I mean, you were clearly fell victim to the far-left nature of Hollywood media.
And that's still today an issue.
Now, when you were a child acting, was pedophilia any part of your world?
No, not at all.
And I'm very proud to say that I think a lot of this had to do with Sherwood Schwartz wanting to make sure that everybody on our set, almost everybody had children.
So from the electricians and the grips and the directors, it was all family people.
So it was a really healthy environment.
And they saw that we were allowed to play.
Volkswagen can norske forhold, and most of our models are in the 4-hours track, so that it can be done with the 3-hours track.
It's a melt, glatte veier, and difficult to drive from the world, and for them without 4-hours track from Volkswagen, so it's great to play the song here.
I just can't wait to get off the road again.
Off the road again, der altså.
Ja, det kan være lurt å skaffe seg en folksvagen med firehullstrekk, sånn at man holder seg...
On the road again.
I think it was probably way healthier than anything today simply because we didn't have the mass media then.
You couldn't, we didn't have social media.
And so, I mean, people would come on our set and not want to leave.
We had a really happy set.
However, I was very aware that there was something wrong in Hollywood because I did go on other sets.
I did do other jobs.
And there was just something in the air.
And I've been told that I had an aura about me of don't touch.
And if anybody hugged me for a nanosecond too long, I knew.
And I'm shocked.
I was very shocked as an adult with social media.
There was a former kid actors page and all these people that I used to see on auditions and really stunned to find out how many of them had been molested.
So, yeah.
In other words, there was something afoot, but I was never touched by it.
Well, you were fortunate and you probably did broadcast that you were untouchable, not to be pressed for.
Yeah, you probably did.
Because I was like a 40-year-old when I was eight.
I was more mature then than I am now.
That's interesting.
I learned to be a kid in my 20s.
Okay, well, you had the Benjamin Button syndrome.
You aged in reverse.
If my skin would just do the same.
Okay.
But you were aware of the pedophilia.
You were aware that something was wrong.
I was just aware that there was a certain desperation to acting.
And that exists whether there's sexual deviation or not.
There is this desperation about acting and about being willing to do anything for the job.
And there's no separation.
It's not like I know the music industry is just as evil, but I don't see it as much because there's a product there.
You have the songs, you have with art, there's the paintings.
And with acting, it's much more vulnerable.
And there's just this kind of, I'll do anything for the job attitude, which I really hated.
And then something that as a child, you know, I wasn't sexually aware, but I just like something smells wrong.
Something's just not right about this.
Right.
And as you got older, your politics got more conservative.
Yeah, well, no, I mean, I got a little bit more liberal probably in my 20s and 30s.
And then was sort of in between.
It really, I really didn't get political.
I had a great sense of justice.
And I think that's genetic DNA because I am the seventh generation granddaughter of a woman who was hanged in Salem.
So there's this thing about justice and about things being fair and about things being honest or corrupt.
But it wasn't until my sister lent me a book by Bruce Bauer called While Europe Slept.
I read that.
I love Bruce.
He's now a social media friend.
And I decided to study Islam because I wanted to defend it.
And six years later, it's like, well, I can't defend this.
I could defend Muslims and hope that somehow the religion's reformed.
But anyway, I started out with counter-jihad and then realized that the people that were lying about, this was during Obama.
So the people that were lying about Islam and about terrorism were lying about everything else too.
And that was, you know, mostly the folks on the left.
There were things on the right that I didn't like.
But, you know, it just, it then became about fact and fiction.
And COVID really did a number on me because I grew up thinking, well, you watch the news, they're all honest.
You know, that's Walter Cronkite.
Everybody's honest.
And I think it was like in the 90s that I heard about the bombing of La Panka and learned that the media will actually lie.
And anyway, I just, I'm very intolerant of lying and having the people be lied to, especially when I'm very into what our founders and framers started with this country and adhering to it.
Well, and you said I played a role in the pandemic.
How did you do that?
Tell me about that.
What kind of truth bomber?
I just, I knew this isn't smelling right.
Again, you know, something's not right here.
And then, you know, I started to see people that like Dr. Zelenko.
Were you listening to my Coursey Nation at that time?
Well, then I started listening to you.
And literally, because at the time I was living with my, with family, and we had a person in their 70s.
And, you know, it's like, you've got to be careful.
You've got to put, you know, everything that comes in the mail, you got to put it outside.
It did, it did.
And I'm like, aren't you seeing some inconsistencies here?
And, you know, I'd have to play the game, you know, because you got to get along with people.
And I couldn't wait for the evenings when I'd turn on your podcast.
And I'd listen to you.
I was like, yes, yes, that's not adding up.
That's not adding up.
Hydroxychloroquine seems to be working.
And now anybody that says that gets silenced.
We're silencing people that say the truth.
This is like a communist nation.
So I started to feel like everything was very dangerous.
My son was living a little bit far away from me at the time.
And I didn't get to see him for three months.
And I said, I am more concerned about what the government's going to do than I am about what this virus is going to do.
And did you get the hydroxy?
We were at that time doing a week with an MD.
Mostly I got it from my son.
That was my big deal.
I set up a bug out bag in my car in case the, you know what hits the fan.
And I was just going to go get my son and go to the woods.
I had my medical supplies.
And then during the whole thing, I have a very close group of girlfriends and we were all anti-vax, anti-COVID jab, which was never a vaccine.
But I wanted to set up, by this time I had gotten my condo and I wanted to set up like a hospital for any of my friends who got sick.
So I was very into getting supplies.
Everything that the silenced people said worked, I got.
I found personally ivermectin worked a lot better than hydroxychloroquine.
But I already had ivermectin because I rescue animals and we use ivermectin all the time for parasites.
That's right.
Yeah.
And when you when you can get bovine, swine, and equine and they're real cheap.
But I did go ahead and get the humine, the human kind, just in case.
Well, good.
And your politics, and you must be excited that Robert Kennedy Jr. is now the head of health and human services.
I am so excited.
I was wearing my Kennedy shirt that day when he got confirmed.
And I used to dislike him because, oh, gosh, I don't know how many years ago, but he referred to Herc Wilders, who is now the PM of the Netherlands, as an Islamophobe.
And to me, anybody that uses the term Islamophobe is kind of a ninny.
And so I was, Bobby doesn't know anything.
And then I heard him talking about vaccines.
And my son was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome.
He's on the spectrum very, very mildly.
And it was through Bobby that I learned, you know, because I was afraid to not vaccinate my kid.
But he had been diagnosed and I learned to separate them.
The MMR vaccine seemed to be the culprit.
So you do the months vaccine.
You wait 30 days.
You do measles.
You wait 30 days.
Rubella.
And so I did that for all of the subsequent boosters.
But I mean, they're getting tons more vaccines now.
Now, my daughter had just had a baby, won't know vaccines.
Yeah, you know, I have a friend who just, my co-worker, he just had a baby.
I'm like, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but there are a couple of them that you really should put your foot down on.
And, you know, the MMR, separate them.
It's just, it's too much.
They could all be okay, but when you have them all at the same time, it's just so much.
And why the heck is a one-day-old getting a vaccine for hepatitis B that you can only get through sex or drug use?
That's it is it is ridiculous.
I mean, it is ridiculous.
And Bobby Kennedy's, I think, going to do a lot to, you know, he was also a very effective lawyer when he was doing the environmental work.
Yes, and I like that too, because when Trump says drill, baby, drill, I get it economically, but I'm also, I am a tree hugger and I am an animal rescuer.
So, you know, I want to make sure he was saying drill, baby, drill.
I'm like, okay, please confirm Bobby, because Bobby will go, well, maybe not here or maybe not this way, because Bobby's not falling for the climate control.
No, I think the entire climate nonsense is now gone.
I think we really and the ESGs and the gender dystopia, these insanities are now canceled.
I think the very people are sick of them.
Yeah.
Yeah, and they're showing, they're just, you know, it's tools.
And a lot of people say, well, this is socialism trying to take over.
I think it was more, it's nihilism.
Yeah, it negates value.
It is, yes.
It is essentially atheistic and no value.
The values are whatever values you want to have.
And those are no values.
Yeah.
And didn't, you know, and it's really a tragedy that this is all pinned on the left because this is not what the left was about.
Because didn't they, didn't they want to go with nature and everything natural and be this is so anti-nature.
It's being spearheaded by people that want to destroy nature.
Well, the Martin Luther King, I constantly point out Martin Luther King was about equal opportunity.
And he said, if you give us opportunity, we'll show you what we can do.
Yes.
We can compete with anybody.
And that meant families.
It meant raising children with education.
It meant values.
And his whole movement, Martin Luther King was a Republican.
He was not a Democrat.
I didn't know that.
Wow.
Yes.
He was a Republican.
And today, it is not about that.
It's about, it's not equality, it's equity.
In other words, there have to be so many of this race and so many of that race and so many of this gender and so many of this and that.
And that's more important than whether you're competent to do the job.
Well, that's not what Martin Luther King wanted.
He would have been opposed to that.
Completely opposed to that.
It's an insult.
And it's also discriminatory against anyone who is not in the favored races.
Yes, and creates more racism.
But see, these horrible people knew that.
I'm certain that it was designed to destroy.
Yes, yes.
And so now when you get on a plane and you see that your pilot is a black woman, you wouldn't have had a problem with that before.
You're not a racist.
But now you have to go, is she there because of DEI?
Well, I think that's what we're finding increasingly.
I mean, these air accidents that we've had have clearly reflected DEI preferential hiring.
Yeah, and I'm terrified of flying.
We're going to have to fly a bit.
Well, I think that the, by and large, I think flying is yet safe, but it is not as safe with DEI.
And Trump will, I think, eliminate these things and has begun to do it with executive orders.
The problem with executive orders is they can be reversed by the next president.
They can all be changed back.
And so therefore, it's just the beginning of a reset back to traditional values.
But it's got to begin somewhere.
And Trump's first month has been, I think, the most dynamic month, the most change-oriented month in a positive sense that the nation has ever experienced.
It's amazing, really.
It's like waking up to Christmas every morning.
Yeah.
And I think the country is lifted by it.
I think the country.
I do too.
Although I'm here in Lawa Land where people are very upset over it.
It's like, don't expose the people that are stealing from me.
Yeah, right.
I mean, you know, it's insane because the Democrats have now become the party of abortion, the party of euthanasia, the party of sex change, the party of discrimination against white race, a party of, you know, government spending, flooding the country with illegal immigrants, including criminals.
I mean, we...
Preferring criminals, too.
Yeah, well, we've been running.
It's not like the illegal aliens I used to work with.
Literally.
We've been running videos for New York subways, which have been taken over by the gangs.
And the police and the military down there, the subways, why bother arresting these people?
Because a lot of this has been decriminalized.
So therefore, even if they rob people, the robbers and gangs down there don't even wear masks anymore because they know that nothing's going to happen to them.
The judges are going to let them right out.
At least we got rid of something here in LA.
It was, it was okay to shoplift up to nine, up to a thousand dollars, nine hundred and ninety-nine or something.
And you could come back every day.
Yeah.
No business can stay open with that.
And that's of course not.
That's where you have.
And that's the point.
So that's what I try to tell my lefty friends.
I'm like, look, you know, it's not like Biden and Harris went, I went out and I forgot to close the border.
Oh, silly me.
It's not an accident.
No.
It's deliberate.
It's deliberate and it's evil because as we've been exposing, even the Catholic Church is involved and making deals with McCarrick, who was a pedophile and homosexual cardinal and making deals with Honduras and the Pope,
making deals with Biden and with Obama when he was president, and the president of Honduras, who was part of the drug cartels and also was part of the child sex trade.
And we gave them money under the Alliance for Progress and got involved in their activities.
So the church became complicit in these sex crimes, which are the most horrendous sex crimes against children who are taken away from their parents and exposed to a brutal world that they don't understand.
What desperation these children must feel?
Abandonment, confused, abused.
We're going to need a lot of loving and caring people to adopt these kids and to counsel these kids.
Some of it may be permanent damage.
I think so.
Yeah.
That is not really entirely recoverable.
In other words, these are lifelong injuries, psychologically.
Yeah.
I agree.
And it's so intentional.
I mean, I saw just having a kid on the spectrum looking at just, and this is really mild, but like CPS, being aware that they spent more time harassing single white mothers.
And CPS being?
Yeah, Child Protective Services.
That there was something foul going on there.
That there are times when they might try to prove that your child needs certain services more than they really do.
And take your children away from you.
Take your children away from you.
Well, that's the ultimate threat.
Yeah.
But even just getting a court to order services so that they can get the money for those services.
It doesn't matter if you're a parent that says, that's actually harming my child.
That didn't personally happen to me, but I saw it happening.
I saw that in other parts of the country, certain children were being placed in the system so that they could eventually be put up for adoption.
So I don't know.
You know, I used as a child, I like to think that I could trust the authorities, but no.
Well, the two things I think are so tremendously disturbing is abortion, killing a life that is helpless.
Sorry.
Well, it's within a certain amount of time.
Well, it's still a life.
It's still a life and it's still a life that has no choice and is helpless.
That's extinguished.
Yeah.
I can't argue that, but I think that the life of the mother is more important.
Well, it may not affect the life of the mother.
Mother just says maybe that's a little different.
It may be inconvenient.
Yeah.
But on the other hand, forcing somebody to have children when they don't want to have children is not such a great idea either.
But you have to have a limit.
You have to.
Legally, no matter how you feel about it morally, you have to.
There has to be a point where the unborn have rights.
There has to be.
Well, and my point is, if you don't want children, if you're going to abort them, don't take steps so you don't have children.
Well, and today, it's so easy to get birth control.
There really, you know, I have to say there really isn't much excuse.
But, you know, I know people who had the condom break, they got knocked up their first time.
So I don't know.
I'm still, I'm still pro-choice, but I do understand and appreciate what you're saying.
Well, I still think there's alternatives.
If you really don't want children, there are alternatives.
You can responsibly take them.
But to bring a life into the world and then to extinguish it is to me unacceptable.
Yeah, especially since it is so darned easy.
And so vulnerable that life has no choice.
Yeah, you've got, it's irresponsible.
Yes, it is.
Very.
Yeah.
And, you know, that these are things that I think are offenses against God and offenses against God's, God creates life.
And once that life is created, we have to nourish it.
It's our responsibility.
That's how I see it.
It's our responsibility to nourish that life.
God bestowed it.
We did not.
And so that, and I think taking God out of the schools and taking God out of the communities.
I don't want God in the schools.
Because you open that up.
I think the safest way to have God in schools is to have nature in schools because that is God's miracle.
Well, nature is.
Nature is a surrogate for God.
Yes.
And this country.
The proof of God.
Well, yes, but it is a distinction that nature is not God.
It's an artifact of God.
But the point is this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles.
And it was founded on principles where God was part of the society.
In other words, it was a moral society and which had followed rules which were biblically ordained.
So there are values in that Bible that are part of what the teaching is.
Okay.
And so those who don't want to participate in it might opt out.
But to forbid it to be into the schools is to secularize the schools to a point where it does damage to those who go through it.
The ultimate, my view, the ultimate, and I think traditional morality, the responsibility of parents is to raise a child and the state in a moral education.
In other words, a certain set of values that aren't arbitrary.
And those values are ordained in the principles biblically that become a view of God.
Now, again, if people want to practice a separate religion or people want to have their own religious time, these can be accommodated.
But to abolish God from the schools means that schools are secularized and the values that are internalized are absent of a concept of God.
And our founding fathers, I think, believed correctly that absent a concept of God, a human being is not fully developed, not fully formed, and potentially vulnerable, potentially vulnerable to doing great harm.
Because again, the values are not rooted in consequences.
Yeah.
And a conscience developing a conscience.
Now, personally, I'd rather see that take place in the home.
Have you ever heard of the Michaela School?
No.
In England?
Oh, check it out.
The head mistress, they teach, they don't get religious because they have a lot of Muslim students too.
And if they bring, you know.
Yes, well, I think these are these, this is a problem.
And I think it's a huge problem, but not at her school because they're teaching conscience.
They're teaching treating everybody equally.
Yes, well, that's the beginning of communism.
That's the beginning of a movement and towards not really having a God, that God is not central.
It's the formation of a moral consciousness is centered on a set of values, which I believe are inherently spiritual because they presume that there's a reason to creation, there's a reason to life, and it has consequences in an afterlife.
This is not an arbitrary experience, not accidental.
We're spiritual beings to begin with.
And spiritual beings in a context that is, you know, forbidden to be spiritual is to educate half or a partial person.
Actually, it's to educate a misformed person, to my view.
The person needs to have a religious orientation.
And I find that people who don't have it are fundamentally different in terms of their outlook and things and how they see life and value moral judgments.
So that you internalize a set of values.
For instance, it can take any one of the issues, but truth-telling.
We'll tell the truth because...
We'll tell the truth because...
understand biblically that not telling the truth doesn't work.
It's complicated.
It's hard to maintain a lie.
We don't need the Bible to see that.
No.
You don't see that.
The more you develop your spirit, the more you're going to see.
You can see that.
But then not to go the full step and understand that's God is yet a holdback.
So you can say someone has been through education, they've gotten three quarters of the education, they know most of what's required, but they only know three-quarters of it.
They didn't get that extra, that extra dimension, which allows you to truly perceive everything spiritually.
There is a fundamental difference.
People who believe.
I don't know what you're saying.
I just, I don't agree.
I had the final step and I've pulled back from it.
We are probably going to disagree on religion.
But one does need God.
I'd be spirit.
Well, okay.
And I know that's a hard one, but I believe immensely in God.
I believe that the reason why I can see certain things is because God's like, hey, look over there.
Yeah.
But I don't, I don't feel that.
It'll be another step for you.
I'll be interested in talking to you in 10 years.
Be an interesting step for you to find.
No, you could have talked to me 10 years ago.
Well, as I say, you're probably growing in reverse.
Yeah, I guess.
This is true.
By aging in reverse, from everything I could determine.
Your ideas 10 years ago might have been better than your ideas today.
Well, you know, we'll see.
In this case, in 10 years, I'll go back to them.
Maybe.
Yeah.
But the point.
Yeah, the point is it's like being colorblind.
You can still understand that there are colors because there's going to be shades of gray.
And you can understand that those are related to different colors.
But until you see the colors, you haven't experienced the full nature of a visual reality.
And it's the same of when you look at people who do believe in God, certain changes occur in their personality where they're able to accept things.
You know, for instance, one of the points I always like to emphasize is that the experience of death or the experience of death approaching, where you know it's likely an inevitable reality now to someone who truly believes in God has a way to accept it more.
And so the, you know, the, you can see in religious societies that the priests or the clergy, whomever they are, enter people's lives at critical points, you know, at birth, you know, at marriage, at death, and at any crises that occur, illnesses, setbacks, losing children.
These things are, for someone who believes in God generically are harder to accept than someone who believes, you know, with a religious view.
And in my view, only the biblical view is complete.
I don't see the Islamic religion as complete.
I think it needs a reformation.
It's complete crap.
Well, I mean, complete evil.
Well, I would tend to agree in the sense that that's dangerous words, though, but it needs a reformation.
I mean, I think Christianity today is very different than Christianity was during the Inquisition or the Crusades or the Dark Ages.
You said, you know, you have an ancestor that was hung in Salem.
Yeah.
Well, these were these were aberrations.
These were these were these were a church that needs a reformation.
And also, I don't really believe that Cotton Mather or any of those people truly believed that any of them were witches.
I think it was a matter of trying to get their property.
Well, and essentially, or they didn't like them, or there was a grudge, or there was some issue.
But again, these are, I think every religion has to go through a reformation, has to decide that even if they believe this religion is the only true religion, it's not a reason to go to war with the next religion.
And I think that our founding fathers had a brilliance in saying religious freedom only means not an established church.
We're not going to tell people what they have to believe.
Okay.
Because again, as soon as you do that, you cross the line.
Yeah.
Even if you, even if you think your religion is the only true religion, you still have an obligation, I think.
I think our founding fathers were right, is to respect another person's view of what the true religion is and not to necessarily try to dissuade them.
So I'm less of an evangelist in terms of the mission is not to persuade everybody to believe my religion or how I view it.
It's important for me to believe it, and I will be happy to share it.
But my mission is not out.
My mission is to accept the others.
That's what I think our First Amendment advises, which is the only way a society can really exist.
Because as soon as you start imposing this set of beliefs have to be held by everyone, you're going down a dangerous path.
Then how do you bring it into school?
Well, you bring it into school in some ways to be people don't want to do it.
They have options not to do it.
In other words, we have a prayer moment at the beginning of school.
They don't have to come into class until that's over.
They don't have to be forced to go through it.
But yet it's permissible.
Or they could choose to meditate.
Whatever, but they're not obligated to participate.
It's voluntary.
Okay, so I don't, but I don't think it should be prohibited from being in the school.
So our moral education ought to be part of the experience.
If you choose to opt out of it, that's your choice.
And I'm not it for forcing anyone to experience it.
I think that's counterproductive.
I don't think that works.
And I am for doing things that work, not things that don't work.
But what about forcing the morality of do unto others?
Well, I think that should be enforced.
Well, now we're into what crime means and what evil means.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so therefore, yes, even for people who don't believe in God, as long as they have a moral sense, which to me, you've accepted God, you just haven't yet accepted that you've accepted God.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I view you as you've accepted God, yet you just haven't accepted that you've accepted God.
No, I accept that it's God.
Yes.
And nobody stopped me from praying in school because every hour of the day.
But you don't accept that it's the Bible.
No.
Okay.
I think the Bible's the best, but I don't believe that I have to accept the Bible in order to go to heaven.
Well, okay.
I'm not saying you do.
But I am saying that that codifies the more complete understanding.
And there are certain dimensions of it that you won't achieve.
In other words, that God sets the direction in your life.
That God has an awareness of who you are before you're born.
That there are certain experiences that you have been set up to experience by the nature of your spiritual journey.
Yeah.
Totally agree.
And biblically, these things are very clearly expressed and they're very clearly articulated.
And without them, some of the solace, some of the reassurement through difficult times, some of the ability to deal with what life is going to really be are lacking without that dimension.
Much more difficult and probably not experiencing fully what those setbacks, difficulties, problems, miseries, et cetera, were meant to teach you.
And I'm probably benefiting from the things that I studied when I accepted religion more than I realized.
Probably, yes.
All right.
Well, we're running.
It's been a delightful conversation.
And we'll do more.
Thank you.
Well, thank you.
I appreciate it.
Well, I don't plan to quit.
Okay, thank you.
I got your books.
When I heard that you refused to plead guilty when our government was trying to put you through the ringer, it's like, that's my kind of guy.
Well, thank you.
I appreciate that, Susan.
This is Dr. Jerome Coursey.
And the end God always wins.
God will win here too.
We've been interviewing Susan Olson, who was Cindy on the Brady Bunch and has matured into a beautiful, intelligent woman.
