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May 29, 2025 - Jim Bakker Show
28:28
The Jim Bakker Show with Jospeh Z Part 2
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Empowering The Church 00:03:50
Welcome to the Jim Baker Family Show.
Today, we discuss empowering the church, embracing the spirit of Elijah with Joseph Z. Our co-host today is Reverend Mondo de la Vega.
And now, here's your host, Pastor Ricky Baker.
Hello, you're watching Jim Baker's PTL Television Network.
We're excited to have you here with us today.
We have Pastor Joseph Z with us.
I asked him before, I said, Do you want me to be called pastor, prophet, man of God?
And he said, just Joseph.
And I said, okay, I'll rotate through them all.
I'll rotate through all his songs.
I'm starting with this one.
Man of God, thanks for being on this side.
Thank you, Ricky.
Thank you.
All the way from Colorado.
There's some big things coming up.
I know I just saw on social media, and I don't know about this program if there's still availability, but you're going to Israel with some dear friends and you're taking people with you.
We are.
Yeah.
It's Troy Brewer and Alan DeDio.
We're going with Norai Media Group, and we're going over there to do a 10-day tour of Israel.
And I'll be there for some of it, but these gentlemen are leading it.
Like when you're with Troy and Alan, these guys, Troy will be like, man, I'm going to take you over to this place nobody's ever seen before.
And it's true.
Troy is amazing.
He's crazy and anointed.
And Alan DeDio, there's not another teacher like him.
I mean, you get with these gentlemen and you're going to learn things you've not seen before.
Amen.
Mondo Israel, we went in 2014.
2014.
And something about it, and you've been multiple times, but your heart yearns for it when you go back.
When you step where Jesus had stepped, I remember being a young man watching you go over there, and I've never seen Mondo cry before, but he steps into the Holy Land.
He shed real tears of what I thought were joy because he said, I'm here.
And the Bible just came alive.
Wow.
You know, that moment was so powerful because dad, your friend Jim Baker was interviewing Rabbi Khan.
Yeah.
Ricky was there holding a guitar.
I literally shouted Rabbi Khan.
I did everything for him.
Oh, man.
He had one job was to carry Rabbi's guitar.
And he forget, oh, his Bible.
And he forgets.
Oh, that's target.
I hear to sing a cappella like five times.
But we arrived to Jerusalem.
I was always filming and holding the camera, and I couldn't contain myself as I'm watching Jerusalem from afar.
I read about it, I heard about it, and I couldn't contend my tears.
And I asked Ricky if he can continue filming for me.
And I stepped away and I started crying.
And I saw Jonathan Kahn just come by my side and hug me.
And he asked me, what do you feel?
I said, Rabbi, I feel like I'm home.
I feel like I belong.
And he said, well, welcome home.
This is your home.
That's what happened that moment.
So if you have the opportunity to go with Pastor Z, Bishop Alan DeDio, or Pastor Troy Brewer, that'd be an incredible thing.
It's being hosted by Norai Media.
I encourage you to go look it up on their social medias.
And if they still have availability, get your ticket to go with them today.
It's going to be an incredible time.
You know, we lost all that footage when Mondo handed me that camera.
We really did.
I thought he handed it to me and I thought, okay, I'm going to press record.
I stopped the recording.
I was just holding it for hours on end, brother.
We got just holding form.
We have none of that footage, brother.
Hey, but that won't be the case.
When you go there, make sure you press record.
Come on.
Press record.
Wait, let's jump right in.
Okay, Ricky.
Come on, let's jump right into it.
The spirit of Elijah.
Yes, sir.
We want to talk about that.
What is the spirit of Elijah and is it still active today?
Well, the first thing I would say about the spirit of Elijah is, as we said in a previous program, when darkness sows and it sows and it sows and it sows, you see that with Jezebel and Ahab.
You see the way the society is being run in their time.
Eventually, darkness crosses a line and it reaps.
And when darkness reaps, it reaps a reformer.
Elijah's Spirit Reforms 00:11:41
It reaps a reformation.
When Elijah showed up on the scene, he was like a bolt of lightning to the nation.
They didn't know what to do with him.
They couldn't control him.
They couldn't stop him.
What he said came to pass.
And when he showed up, it changed the whole game.
Now, that same spirit came with John the Baptist.
It showed up with John the Baptist to welcome Jesus the first time he came in the first advent.
In the second coming of the Lord, I believe that spirit is now in the body of Christ.
Because you recognize it says John the Baptist, he was the greatest of all prophets.
But the least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.
And now we are all anointed ones in Christ Jesus the Lord, who lives in us, the hope of glory.
And because that spirit came on John the Baptist to announce the first coming, I believe that the spirit of Elijah will be on the church to bring in the second coming of Jesus whenever that happens.
Now, the big thing about the spirit of Elijah is this: it is an anointing that turns the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children of the fathers.
And this is something I had to really sort through.
I was thinking, what does that mean?
How does that operate?
And the Lord began to talk to me about this.
You know, it says something here.
I'll read this in the scripture to us in 1 Corinthians chapter 4.
This is really powerful.
1 Corinthians chapter 4 and verse 14.
Please listen to this as I read this to you.
It says, I do not write these things, this is Paul talking, to shame you, but as my beloved children, I warn you.
For though verse 15 says, you might have 10,000 instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers.
For in Christ Jesus, I have begotten you through the gospel.
Verse 16, therefore I urge you, imitate me.
17.
For this reason I've sent you Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord.
And I'll remind you of it.
He will remind you of my ways in Christ as I teach everywhere in every church.
Now, here's what I want to say about this.
When you look at this scripture, Paul is saying, though you have 10,000 instructors, the Greek word there for instructors is boy instructors.
In other words, it's those that regurgitate a revelation.
What am I talking about?
Well, I need to go to the whiteboard.
Please.
I need to do that.
So when you recognize that there are boy instructors versus originators, things begin to be altered.
So what we're seeing in the body of Christ right now is a movement where people have heard a teaching.
They've seen somebody build something.
They've seen somebody release a revelation.
But what begins to happen is when a revelation reaches a high point, it can become institutionalized.
When you institutionalize a revelation, then it becomes stagnant.
It no longer is living, moving, and breathing.
And what needs to begin to happen is it needs to be broken up like fallow ground that the Spirit of Elijah really brings.
Let me show you something on the board here.
When institutionalism comes, it always starts up this way.
It starts in a birthing phase.
Okay, I was talking with George Barna and I asked him about this.
And he said, yeah, there's birthing phases or development phases where things begin to grow.
And this is when churches, organizations, or moves of God first start.
They begin in a birthing phase.
And this birthing phase, they develop.
They're kind of finding their footing.
They're getting a revelation of what God's telling them to speak to their generation.
And then from there, you go beyond this, and then it goes into rapid development or a growth phase.
And the growth phase is where things are exciting.
It's amazing.
And all of this is a revelation.
What do I mean by revelation?
It's a word from God during a season, a now word for a culture, a now word for a generation, and it is a revelatory thing.
It's new.
It's in the word of God.
But the Lord begins to bring a present truth out of the word of God to a culture.
And so when this happens, things begin to grow and grow and grow.
And ultimately, it grows beyond this into what is called the mature phase.
Okay, the mature phase.
Now, the mature phase is really categorized by it hitting the target, coming to a high point, but eventually, if a mature phase is not careful, it can take a revelation and institutionalize it.
It becomes an institution.
What does that mean?
When you institutionalize a revelation, it means that they begin to focus on the past more than the future.
Okay?
They're looking at the past way more.
So they're gazing at that rather than gazing at where they want to go as the future.
This is like looking at things and you're eyeballing the past.
You're saying that is where we were.
This is what we used to be.
The old days were better.
This is what you're focusing on.
But the Lord is saying that we've got to begin to get past this.
But here's the bottom line.
After this phase, institutionalism goes into what is called decline.
What do I mean by decline?
This is the final frontier of an institution.
This is the final frontier of a movement.
It begins to go down and it just kind of goes away.
It dissipates.
It begins to fall apart.
And then it's kind of like, you know, just goes back to intellectualism and all that.
When you look at this phase here, I said, Lord, how do we stop this type of trajectory?
And typically this takes 20 years.
You know, with a fresh word of God, these things begin to go this way.
20 years is what it usually takes to get through this phase.
When you get to this phase and you go into decline, I started to ask the Lord, how do we fix that?
And the spirit of Elijah is what corrects this.
The spirit of Elijah is what begins to deinstitutionalize a revelation.
In other words, it breaks you out of the containment of what people have walked in, and they just begin to intellectualize everything.
They kind of make it, you know, form and formality.
But to break out of it, it takes the spirit of Elijah.
But what does that look like?
So we're looking here at 1 Corinthians 4, and it's talking about that you have 10,000 boy instructors.
In other words, when institutions start to decline, it goes down in the hands of boy instructors.
No longer do we have a father.
No longer do we have a leader that stands up and says, this is the word of the Lord.
Walk ye in it.
I have a word from God.
I am going where God called me to go and go with me.
That's when fathers and mothers stand up.
When it begins to go into boy instructors, what begins to happen is it goes down.
And so how do we fix this?
How do we correct it?
Well, first and foremost, we have to find out what is the qualification of a spiritual father, the spirit of Elijah.
What is that?
Well, first and foremost, the spirit of Elijah comes and brings a now word.
It begins to breathe life into the institution.
And when this happens, it is something that is worthy of imitation.
Okay?
Imitation.
Paul said, imitate me as I follow Christ.
Act like me.
He was a father.
He stood up and he began to lead.
But here is the exchange for fathers and children.
Are you ready?
This is where it comes down to where the rubber meets the road.
The spirit of Elijah works like this.
It comes through demonstration in the middle of a mature phase.
It comes with demonstration.
And you recognize Proverbs chapter 20 and 28 and 29.
It says this.
It says, the glory of young men is their strength.
And the glory of old men is their gray hair.
I like to ask sometimes, what about no hair?
Come on.
What are we talking about here?
But the glory of young men is their strength.
The glory of old men is their gray hair.
What does that mean?
It means they have ability, young men do, young women.
Older men have wisdom.
So what do we do?
We've got to, in this phase right here, through imitation, learn how to get this exchange going.
And the exchange is older warriors come along and they begin to raise up a generation to move forward.
And I say this, and I'll draw this very quickly because I know we need to talk a little more.
But there are different types of reformers that come along under the Spirit of Elijah.
It's something the Lord showed me.
And number one, I see this all the time.
I believe the young lions are coming.
These are boy teachers.
Number two, the burnt stones.
What do I mean by burnt stones?
These are the old John Rambos.
They're hiding out in the back 40.
They've seen too much.
They've been around too much.
All know them.
And they're back there and they're like, you know, I've done all this.
I've seen that.
I've been offended.
I've been hurt.
I've seen people do that.
I'm just kind of past the silliness of it all.
So they go hide out in the back 40.
And then when the colonel comes to find them, there's John Rambo sharpening a stick by the fire.
He's sharpening the stick.
And the colonel comes up, Johnny, we got a real problem.
We need you.
You know, I need you to come back.
Come back with us.
He's like, I don't do that anymore, Commander.
I used to do it.
I don't do it anymore.
Find somebody else, right?
And you recognize how it goes.
And then finally, the colonel leaves, like, all right, all right, I'll go get these kids to do it.
And suddenly, this situation gets so severe that he stands up, puts the knife in, puts the bullets on, and goes back in and starts leading all these punks, right?
And so you see that burnt stones, that's what they do.
They've been around a long time, they've seen a lot, but they are called back into service.
Number three, Cinderellas.
These are prophetic things that I just, you know, it's my language.
So it's the way I communicate it.
What are Cinderellas?
They are those who've been captured by the institution for the inspiration of God on their life.
You know, institutionalization takes people with raw inspiration, the call of God, the Teslas of the world, and it pulls them in and begins to vampire and use them for what they have in their gifting, right?
And they're used.
And so I believe in this phase, the Spirit of Elijah comes, it'll put the glass slipper back on Cinderella and they will stand up and say, I have a word from the Lord.
It's a now word and it'll begin to break the yoke.
The final one, and this is where some people can find themselves, is the Rudolphs.
Who are the Rudolphs?
Well, Rudolph didn't really get along with all the other reindeer, right?
You guys remember that, right?
You know, Rudolph, his oddity became his commodity on a foggy Christmas Eve, right?
Remember that?
And so the other reindeer didn't really like him until he was needed.
And that strange ability he had to lead them through that time made them celebrate him.
You know, then all the reindeer loved him as they shouted out with glee.
And I like to say this: Rudolph, the red-nosed reindeer, the red church will go down in history, right?
But you recognize this.
These are what I believe are reformers.
These are the young that have strength.
The burnt stones have wisdom.
The Cinderellas, they're kind of like a sidebar gifting that's going to come into the understanding.
And you see a lot of young people that are Cinderellas and they serve institutionalism and they kind of give up the call of God in some ways because they don't know any better.
But fathers and mothers don't allow this to happen.
Then all of a sudden, Rudolphs, they're kind of like the prophets in the back 40 with all these strange abilities and things like this that God will bring on the scene to just kind of upset institutionalism.
Now, when the Spirit of Elijah comes, the prophetic move of God in that is not here to destroy or burn down the institution.
It's meant to breathe life into the institution, and that comes through exchange in this mature phase.
Meaning, the Spirit of Elijah comes and says, through imitation, you can act like me.
I'm going to demonstrate a move of God, and then you can act like me because I'm righteous, I'm holy, I'm walking in integrity, I'm proven, I have a track record, and they begin to be trustworthy because of those things, transparency, accountability, all of it.
But when you begin to put this together, this is how you maintain a move of God.
You pass it on to the next generation through imitation, through celebration, and then empowerment.
Nitric Oxide's Miracle Benefits 00:02:55
And what I mean by the exchange of strength for wisdom is this: when you have older reformers that come on the scene and they're carrying things, it is the reformer's job to begin to build up the younger generation and say, don't walk that way.
There's minefields there.
Do this.
And the biggest thing the church needs to learn with the Spirit of Elijah is how to empower the next generation to carry the torch with their mantle, not yours.
In other words, you got to let them be who they're called to be, but you build them up.
And so that's a quick summary of how the Spirit of Elijah works.
Come on.
Amen.
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Breakthrough Is Coming 00:10:44
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Joseph, you did an amazing job really presenting to us the future of reformation.
The question I want to ask you has to do with what you talk about in chapter three.
I believe I'm a weird kind of guy because I like to break down words.
I love it.
A generation at war with God.
And I broke down the word gen era shown.
Right?
Powerful.
It's a difference.
And I don't have time.
This is not about me today, but it's about you.
And I want to ask you, what role does a mentorship type of program work in the church with what you just taught?
Because I'm afraid that the mentors are not there.
Yeah.
Or mentors.
Can I get real with you?
Come on.
Or mentors are getting in trouble.
Yeah.
Or mentors have hidden past sins or past mistakes.
True.
And they're now being uncovered.
It's true.
And mentorships are not there anymore.
So now we're left to be out there trying to figure out, am I the lion?
Am I the wizard?
Am I the danger of unpastored pastors?
Exactly.
What a word.
Help us with that because here you have a young generation waiting to change the world, to be history makers.
Yet we don't have the blueprint.
Yeah.
Well, I'll start by saying this.
For everyone we see fall, there's at least a thousand doing a good job.
Amen.
So there's a lot of that, but there are, there is a lot of public exposure that's really horrifying.
It's terrible and nobody's above reproach.
You have to absolutely be accountable.
It's a very important thing and it's a big deal.
Mentorship right on the nose really, again, is that thing.
We have to exchange strength for wisdom, strength for wisdom.
And so this generation, especially in our Western mind, we don't get this very well.
Americans don't get this very well.
They're like, I'm independent.
I do what I want to do.
You can't tell me what to do.
But you realize Isaiah 1.19, it says something powerful.
It says that through willingness and obedience, if you're willing and obedient, you will eat the good of the land.
If you refuse and rebel, you'll be devoured by the sword.
Now, there can be extremes to this kind of teaching where people get locked down and you just never question anything, and that's not right.
You should always be able to question anything.
But at the same time, if leaders begin to raise up a younger generation, again, it comes through that demonstration of something.
So you got to be a leader that inspires others.
And so the Lord really challenged me with this just recently and said, nobody's going to follow somebody that isn't putting in the time with the Lord, that isn't doing the work, that isn't living holy, that isn't doing the stuff.
Or if they do, it will unravel later at a very vulnerable moment.
And so mentorship takes the leader, investing time in young people and young people that have to have the right teaching to listen.
They got to listen.
They'll stay long enough to listen.
If they'll stay long enough to listen.
A generation at war with God.
What do you mean by that?
Well, the culture we have today absolutely is walking in rebellion.
They're saying, you know, you can't tell me what to do.
I'm going to do this.
I was born this way.
Whatever that might be.
They're walking in a heightened form of rebellion.
And the only way you can break that is through an encounter.
And fathers and mothers of the faith, you know, we owe Jesus this.
Both Jesus and the world deserve to see something.
They deserve to see mature believers.
And mature believers stand up like fully trained Jedi and they walk into the arena and they say, Here's the thing.
This is how it operates.
I'm going to prove it to you and then I'm going to teach it to you.
And when you begin to do this, it will move and inspire young people.
It'll move and inspire a generation.
And mentorship, I like to say it this way.
When the game is over, the coach leaves.
When the lesson ends, a teacher closes the book.
But a father never leaves.
A father will remain through the whole thing.
But again, a father is somebody that's an originator.
You know, we're a part of a ministry right now where you gentlemen have been a part of an originator, somebody that's done that.
And now the Spirit of the Lord is raising you up to be leaders in this generation.
It's powerful what I'm watching right here.
It's amazing what God's doing.
You see this in many ministries and churches.
But the thing is, what is happening is there's a flaming torch that's being passed, and that flaming torch will have a retrofit.
And what do I mean by retrofit?
You take some of the old, mixed with some of the new, because you can't just live in the old or it'll institutionalize.
But when you take some of the old and you mix it with the new, that new wineskin of a generation, and you merge that, you don't forsake the former things.
You begin to sow it into the future of what God's calling you to do.
And when you do this, you will stand up and begin to have a movement where God pushes back darkness.
And I'm looking at people right now, you're watching, and many people say, I never knew my father.
I don't understand my future.
I don't know where I'm going.
I don't know what's going on.
The bottom line is this: God loves you.
He's going to take you through all of it.
And at the end of the day, I believe there is a movement coming and a reformation of fathers and mothers that will stand up and be trustworthy.
We're seeing all the exposure stuff, but the Lord will turn it into good.
A silver lining is coming.
Come on.
And it's for your future.
Come on.
Wow.
How should the church navigate increasing persecution and opposition?
Talking globally, but I'm really going to be specific to the United States of America.
Yes.
How do we navigate that?
Well, persecution, you got to recognize we're delivered of everything, but not persecution.
It's the one thing we're not delivered of.
And persecution is a stamp of approval.
And if you can get your mindset this way, that when you're being persecuted, and it's not for something stupid you did, but you're actually being persecuted because you're doing the work of God, you're preaching the gospel, you're doing the stuff.
You know, when people cry out, when people cry out and say, I'm being persecuted, well, did you do something stupid?
Maybe you need to repent.
But if you didn't do that and you're just trying to navigate and God's leading you, you know, you need to recognize that's actually a badge of honor.
You're actually going into a time of promotion.
The harder the persecution, the greater the promotion if you can live through it.
Yeah, and that's that's what people need to have the mindset for in America.
Because America, I do believe in increase.
I do believe in God's economy.
I believe God wants to build you up and take you higher and take you to the fullness of what he has for you.
And that is God's will.
But remember, Mark chapter 4 talks about it, right?
It gets into the whole thing about those who've given up houses, lands, mothers, families, brothers, sisters, all this for the gospel and for the sake of Jesus will in this time receive a hundred times as much with persecution.
So when you get persecution going on and you know you're living for the Lord, you need to celebrate because that means your hundred-fold is coming.
That means breakthrough is coming.
That means the goodness of the Lord will be seen in the land of the living.
If you don't faint and you don't shrink back, you drive into it and celebrate like the disciples did, the apostles did when they were flogged and beaten for preaching Jesus.
Then they began to say, This is a great day.
We're rejoicing because we actually suffered for the name of Jesus.
Now, that is how winning's done.
Amen.
Suffer as good soldiers.
That's what Paul says.
Suffer as good soldiers.
Amen.
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Pastor, I want to ask you, what's your vision for the church's role in the next few years?
I think reformation.
I really do.
So, revival is amazing, but revivals, the purpose of revival is not more revival, is to establish churches, is to build people, is to be the body of Christ that invigorates the body.
But ultimately, the body is meant to go to the world, to the marketplace, to occupy until he returns.
And really, that means reformation.
Come on.
And reformation means we're going to impact culture.
We're going to impact legislation.
We're going to impact entertainment.
We're going to impact society on a global scale.
Now, maybe we're not going to see everybody born again, but we can make a future for our children's children.
And I'll tell you, God wants order in the culture.
We're starting to serve God's order.
Yeah, listen, it's amazing everything you're saying right now about reformation because the world is going to call on you, man of God, women of God, to give a message.
Yes.
I was called a few weeks ago to go and speak on not my normal speaking engagements.
And I got a call from a former DEA agent that is putting a summit together about teaching the community about how to deal with fentanyl.
The dangers of fentanyl.
The dangers of fentanyl and how to respond.
What do we do?
It's a secular event.
This man, God sent me next to him on a plane, a former DEA agent and a former gang member sitting together.
And we started talking.
I gave him my book.
He read my book, called me a few days later, crying and said, I think God has been knocking on my door and I've been ignoring him.
Walk me through the process.
And he said, by the way, I'm putting a summit together in Springfield, Missouri.
I want you to be one of the speakers.
I know you're a clergyman and everyone there is not, but I feel like you have to be a part of this.
That's amazing.
And I want to tell you something.
Quit trying to be inside of a Christian club.
Yeah.
The world needs you.
The world's crying out for us.
But what I see happening is that the church is closing in on everything and not allowing the world in.
We are meant to go out in the world, not be a part of this world.
Reformation is here.
It's not coming.
It's here.
Come on.
Will you answer?
I know I am.
I'm trying, at least.
Amen.
I know you are.
Will you answer the call?
That's what it is, friends.
It's a personal responsibility.
Every single one of us have been given a good work by Jesus Christ to do.
You're not too old, you're not too young.
If Christ has given you the vision, he'll give you the tools to ensure you're able to carry out whatever it is he wants you to do.
Friends, we want you to get this book.
It goes and supports Pastor Z's ministries and what he's doing globally, not just here within the United States.
He is all over the United States via social media, his platforms.
You'll be doing tours this year as well in Israel.
We want people to go and support this ministry.
So go check him out on Facebook.
What's your website?
JosephZ.com.
We've got conferences and all kinds of stuff.
All right, so go to josephze.com.
We'll put that up on the screen so you can go see it.
And friends, this is all the time we have for today's broadcast, but we're going to be back with him.
We're going to film a few more episodes if you don't mind.
If you can tolerate it, we'll have him back a few more days.
Come on.
You'll find out on the next few episodes.
Remember this.
God loves you.
He really does.
Bye-bye for today.
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