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May 19, 2025 - Jim Bakker Show
28:26
The Jim Bakker Show with Joshua Navarrete
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Why the Church Must Engage 00:15:20
Welcome to the Jim Baker Family Show.
Today, our special guest talks about why the church must stay engaged in faith and politics.
Our co-host today is Reverend Mondo de la Vega.
And now, here is your host, Pastor Ricky Baker.
Hello, friends.
You're watching the PTL Television Network.
It's exciting to have you here today.
Mondo, it's the day the Lord has made.
They used to mess it up.
I said, don't mess it up.
We used to sing that song as kids, you know, so I'll rejoice and be glad in it.
I feel like the devil and the enemy is trying to steal the church's joy.
Yes.
He's trying to steal it.
Why?
Because then he steals our ability to rejoice and to have peace.
And I feel like it starts with joy.
I feel like that's where the enemy really starts to try to, you know, chip away at our faith is with our joy.
The Bible says, blessed is the man that doesn't get offended immediately.
Amen.
Don't get offended and lose your joy over an offense.
Instead, rejoice at the fact that we are being blessed at the same time.
The joy of the Lord is our strength.
That's right.
And even when we're being persecuted, we're being blessed.
Amen.
So bring it on.
We live in a world where, you know what?
It is what it is.
And we have to just trust that God is in full control.
Listen, the other day, my wife and I received some bad news.
Yes.
And I immediately wanted to go and be a Debbie Downer.
And I'm going down.
And I said, wait a minute.
You're back again with the same news as you did two years ago.
I bind you in the name of Jesus.
It's time to.
And I started rejoicing in the Lord.
My wife says, why aren't you mad?
Why aren't you sad?
Why aren't you?
I said, I don't have time.
I can either put my energy in that or rejoice at the fact that the Lord has given us the strength to go through this.
Amen.
Once again, I don't understand, Ricky, why you're still rejoicing after going through what we went through and yet you're still funny.
That's well, I still rejoice about that.
And I say, it's because I need strength.
And the only place I can get strength is the joy of the Lord because that's the joy of the Lord is my strength.
So if you have to remain positive, you know, there was a, I believe it was World War II.
Correct me.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Maybe it was World War I.
But there was a survey done on, they didn't call it PTSD back then, but it was post-traumatic stress disorder.
They called it shell shock.
And they were talking to American soldiers and they said, you know, out of all the world soldiers, who were the most resilient soldiers?
And they told them, well, it was the Aussies, the Australians.
And they said, well, what made them so resilient?
Was it their training?
Was it the rigorous amount of time that they put in to ensure that their mind was fortified?
And the American soldiers that were struggling with shell shock, struggling with PTSD said, no, they laughed at everything.
They would be in the middle of the trenches and they'd find something to joke about.
They would be out of food for days at a time and they would think it was the funniest thing in the world.
And they said they found joy and something to laugh about and everything.
And they statistically were the least amount of people that had to deal with PTSD and shell shock because they refused to let their circumstances get them down.
And Mondo, I feel like the church needs to be like that.
While the world has trial and tribulation and they're going to throw things at you, friend, choose joy today.
And I'm preaching to the choir.
Yeah.
I have to choose it every single day.
And I'm going to tell you right now, there's some days where I'm sitting, you know, maybe I'm sitting reading and I'm sitting in my office or I'm sitting reading paperwork and I'm thinking, man, I got it.
I have to choose joy today.
I have to choose joy today.
Everybody's on edge.
That's right.
Politics has brought us all the way up to the edge.
I don't know if you've driven around big cities, but when I was recently in Los Angeles and whatnot, that's my hometown.
And everybody's on edge.
Everybody's wanting to fight.
Everybody wants to argue.
Everybody wants to be right.
And you know what?
I walked around with a smile and I say, hi, how are you doing?
Because here in the Ozarks, we wave.
That's right.
We're friendly.
We let people in on the driveway.
When you're driving Los Angeles, they give you the finger.
You know, but here I wave.
And you know what that does?
That disarms them.
Diffuses the situation.
It diffuses the situation.
And when you're kind, because the Bible says that we have to walk with the fruit of the Spirit.
Amen.
And what is the fruit of the Spirit, Ricky?
Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness.
Hey, what is the one that we don't like to talk about?
Self-control.
You have to have self-control.
That's why you can wave in the middle of LA traffic.
You have to have a little bit of self-control.
Oh, you know, friends, I want to talk to you about someone who's going to be on the broadcast today.
It's an incredible man of God.
I've had the opportunity to meet with him.
Actually, we met in Dallas, Texas, and I've been hoping to try to get this interview for many, many months now.
But we have Pastor Josh Navarette.
He's a leader and a National Faith Assembly Director at Mondo, how do you say this?
Bienvenidos.
That word.
I don't speak Spanish.
I wish I knew how to say that.
But he works with them, and he also has been, you know, a driving force in the intersection of faith and a civic engagement.
And he's the host of a show, which I think you should go on YouTube.
I believe they're on Rumble and other social media sites called the Political Pulpit, a dynamic and thought-provoking show where faith meets politics.
And Mondo, this airs on YouTube, Rumble, X, and the political pulpit delves into, you know, topics of everyday issues, some things that the pulpit doesn't want to address.
But Josh, I want to thank you for being on the broadcast with us today, brother.
Wow.
Thank you so much for having me.
What an incredible start to the show to talk about the joy of the Lord.
You know, I love what the Bible says that in his fullness, in his presence is fullness of joy.
And that's where we find it.
So I appreciate you all having me on today.
Amen.
We want to say thank you.
Pastor Josh, you were recently appointed the pastor of a church.
Tell us about that.
Yes, sir.
December, it was just a surprise in a sense that we knew God was going to do something, but we didn't know he was going to do it this fast.
And my father, who's been pastoring for over 40 years, thought it was time to ordain us and pass the mantle under his mentorship at Redeemer Apostolic Church in Mesa, Arizona.
So now we are senior pastors and God is filling the churches nationwide.
And sometimes on a Sunday, there's standing room only, but God is doing something special.
We know it's happening worldwide.
This is before you go to your question.
I think what you're saying is so powerful.
There's a changing of the guards taking place.
We just saw Bishop T.D. Jakes hand over the ministry over to his daughter.
And I want to tell you something.
Bishop Jakes was a friend and is a friend of this ministry.
He came into our lives when no one else will step in to love on dad, to give dad a chance to be back on the pulpit, to preach the message of restoration.
Bishop poured into my life.
And I want to tell you something.
There's a changing of the guards taking place.
And Ricky, I believe there's a moment in time right now where young leaders are arising, leaders that God is going to use for the next move of God.
And one of them being Christian television.
Amen.
We are seeing changing of the guard.
It's like that moment in a relay race whenever the forward runner and the next runner, they're passing the baton.
You have a certain amount of time to do it.
And Pastor Josh, as we saw, your time was December.
You said it kind of came on you unaware, but I'm glad it did because I know that you're the right man for the job if God has picked you to do it.
You know, talking about the political pulpit, I want to lay the foundation work today because we have a culture that screams separation of church and state.
But can you briefly share why faith and politics aren't separate biblically, even though today's culture pressures us to believe that they are?
You know, I go back to when I was, it was about five or six years ago.
I was in prayer seeking the Lord for many, many answers.
And he put something on my heart that was just out of the ordinary, not something that I was ready for.
I didn't think at the time.
And the Lord really literally told me to be ready because he's going to place me at seats amongst presidents, world leaders, and other dignitaries.
And I was shocked.
I couldn't believe it.
I had no idea what he was, why he was telling me this.
And then I went to the scriptures and I saw the book of Daniel and then I saw Joseph and Esther and several examples.
We just got through Resurrection Sunday.
Jesus Christ standing on the footsteps of Pilate, the governor at that time, being judged before man.
The least that I could do is stand at the steps of any congressional house, whether it's the state house or the White House, representing Jesus Christ.
But little did I know that he was going to call me a man of God at the time just, you know, I was a minister preaching the gospel, but he was going to change it up.
I wasn't going to just preach the gospel in the four walls of the church.
He was going to take me to the streets and to our local state house and all the way to Washington, D.C. There's so many examples of why the Bible is laced with men of God and women of God confronting government and other areas of politics.
Why?
Because righteousness needs to prevail in our cities, in our state, in our country.
The Bible says to seek first the righteousness, seek God's face and his righteousness, and all those things will be added unto us.
I've been commissioned to do that, and I've been on fire for God for a long time, but now it's so different.
I'm in the place where there's just politicians and other people that they only think about writing bills and other things.
But then I come to the table like myself and other people of God confronting those issues and making sure they represent righteousness in the best way possible.
Amen.
You know, biblically speaking, what does scripture say about the role of believers in government and culture?
Because like I said, we have a culture right now.
I'm preaching, Mondo, harping separation of church and state.
But the Bible does have a role for believers in government.
And Pastor, what would that be?
You know, I love how the Bible talks about to pray for our leaders.
The Bible also instructs us to fight for righteousness.
You know, what I think that anytime someone tries to tell you that there should be a separation of church and state, you know, that was a letter written long ago to make sure that the government doesn't impede on your rights to assemble as a church or people of faith.
Now, the enemy, like we were talking about earlier, he wants to be divisive and he wants to divide us.
And he wants the church to be quiet.
He doesn't want the people of God to represent Jesus Christ at the forefront of government.
But it's quite opposite.
The Bible instructs us to not only pray for our leaders, but the Bible also says that when the righteous prevail, the people rejoice.
And so it's our job to make sure the right people are representing our governance, representing our people.
If we're the angels and shepherds of our cities, it should matter to us what the economic policies look like.
It should matter to us what's happening in the school board down the street.
It should matter to us when they try to shut down your church for other reasons that they say are dangerous, where we can't even assemble.
If we don't do something now and we don't involve ourselves in a biblical worldview way in government, the government at some point, if we let them, will come knocking at the church door.
And we don't want that to happen.
We want to spread the gospel freely, openly, and like in America with all liberty and all freedom.
You know, I think of a man by the name of Dick Simmons.
God placed them in Washington, D.C. to start a prayer for senators, congressmen.
And I want to tell you something.
God is always going to place his people in the middle of where is needed the most.
And I have to ask you this, Pastor Josh.
How do you define being politically engaged for Christians without compromising the gospel?
I think that's a very important question.
Because, you know, I've been told a lot many, many times, trying to bring righteousness into the government, trying to hold them accountable is almost impossible because it's a swampy place.
But, you know, Joseph was in a swampy place for a long time, but yet they turned to him for answers.
Same thing for Esther.
Same thing for Moses, so on and so forth.
We were representation, a light in a dark world.
You don't compromise your calling, but you represent Jesus, your calling in those areas.
You know, what we've done for a long time, the last four or five years, is to back issues that best align with our values, our biblical values.
We protect the unborn, protect the most innocent, protect, you know, the gender lines that we know that were given to God, male and female.
There are things that are just no-brainers, not things that we have to really discuss or debate theologically, but just open your Bible and look at what is good and what is righteousness and don't compromise your faith for anybody.
But you represent when it's so easy for me.
When I talk about Jesus, when I talk about my faith, there's no compromise.
It is what it is.
It's in the good book, the Holy Bible.
Amen.
Absolutely.
It is in the Holy Bible.
Friends, this is our foundation.
We stand on the Word of God.
We say it often and I'll continue to say it, Mondo.
If it doesn't line up with the Word of God, then we won't line up with it.
And if the Bible says to cling to it, then we will cling to it.
We stand on the Word of God.
You know, Mondo, one thing I love about this broadcast is we promote many ministries as well through our PTL television app.
And I just want to give you the opportunity, friends, if you don't have it on your phone, go and find the PTL television app.
You can get it on a Roku device, your iPhone, Android.
My favorite way now, Mondo, if you go to PTL.tv on any mobile browser, it'll take you to the PTL network where you can watch all the shows we have for free.
Absolutely.
And a lot of you ask the questions, we can't find you anymore over here.
We're coming back.
But in the meantime, you can find us on Roku, the PTL app.
And listen, the key is this, stay connected with what we're doing because monthly support is what helps us engage with you, but it also allows us to come back from a place where we used to have 24 outlets where this program was distributed.
Now it was down to two, but I got good news.
We're coming back and we're coming back with a different mission.
The mission is this, is to re-engage with content that you are going to need in a time that we're facing right now.
A lot of uncertainties.
But in the meantime, find us by going to the website.
It's on the screen, but call the number today, 1-888-988-1588.
Stand with us every single month.
We want to hear from you.
That's right.
Faith And Action 00:03:47
You know, and I've had some conversations with partners and they say, well, why wouldn't you go back on these particular things or those particular things?
And we've had conversations and negotiations to get back on certain avenues of the television.
But Mondo, we've had this conversation many times.
If anybody tells us, hey, you guys can talk about all these things, but don't speak about the current cultural issues, but don't talk about these.
Friends, if it's in the Bible, we're going to talk about it.
And I don't want to be somewhere where we have to be censored.
So we're going to go to those places where we can preach the full word of God.
And that's why we're building back on networks that will allow us to preach the entire word of God.
I'll never back down from saying Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.
There aren't multiple ways to heaven.
There's only one, and it's Christ and Christ alone.
And we'll continue to preach.
So, friends, we're going to go where we can preach the true and full gospel of Jesus Christ.
But find us ptl.tv.
You can see all of our programming for free: the Jim Baker show, the Mondo show, and some other broadcasts there as well.
You know, Pastor, 1 Chronicles 12:32 talks about the sons of Issachar, understanding the times.
And, Pastor, what are your thoughts?
Maybe what are some signs that point to why it's urgent for the church to engage politically right now?
Yeah, I love the story of the sons of Issachar because God did something special where He gave them the gift of discernment.
But here's what I absolutely love: it wasn't just discernment, it was action.
And this is the part that's so important that we have to understand.
It's one thing to hear from the Lord and see what God is doing in a time like this, such a time as this.
But it's another thing to take action.
You have to take action.
You have to do something about it.
Sometimes, yes, it is prayer groups and prayer walks and maybe making phone calls to your congressperson or your senator.
But the thing is, is that if we sit back and the church does nothing, slowly moral decay takes over.
And that's what we were trying to avoid: it's important that we pastor a region, we pastor cities, and we want to make sure that our people, our sheep, are taken care of and have the best chance and the best opportunities to succeed in life.
It's not just about allowing, because I get told this all the time: well, God already knows what's going to happen, so we should just let it play out and let God take control.
Then, what, then, why are we here?
Obviously, he put us on this earth to take action.
Faith without works is dead, so it's so important that not only do we have faith in the Lord, but we take action and do things about it.
We do things like voter registration so that if you vote your values, then the chances are your values and your moral compass will prevail in any election.
If we let our voices be heard, these politicians will hear you.
So, there's so many important aspects of what happens with the sons of Issachar.
And that's not just discernment, but it's action.
And I love that part.
Amen.
It absolutely is action.
Faith without works is dead.
That's it.
We have to continuously remind ourselves that.
Now, we're not saved by works, and praise God, we're not, because we couldn't work hard enough to be saved.
We couldn't work hard enough for salvation, but we must continue to put our hands to the plow because there's a harvest out there.
But if we stay on our porch, Mondo, our spiritual porch, and say, Well, someone else will go out there and harvest the field.
The field will never be harvested.
No, and I think it's the church's duty to remain involved and engage.
And if you want to hear more about what Pastor Josh is saying, hold that thought.
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Pastor Josh, this is an important question for me, and I hope for the viewers as well.
Church's Role in Politics 00:07:07
How has the church disengaged from past generations that has contributed to the cultural chaos we're witnessing right now?
Yeah, that's a very good question.
It's something I contemplated for a long time, especially when I decided to jump into the race in a sense where I wasn't running for office, but I was confronting those that were with biblical principles, of course.
What I realized was for the many decades before me, there was this cultural shift where the church stayed apart from all things politics, and we just allowed things to happen.
And we just watched it, you know, unfold before our eyes as we stay tucked away in our four walls behind pews with hymns in our hands, almost as if we had the posture of just crossing our arms and saying we don't want to get involved.
Look what happened in the 90s.
You know, MTV just exploded and the most crude and terrible TV shows and sitcoms were developed and put on front of our children's faces.
I remember growing up in TV, you know, we didn't watch much TV or much TV at all because of the things that were happening, but it was slowly decaying our culture in America.
And then in the early 2000s, it is what it was.
And then all of a sudden, for the last 10 to 15 years, total uproar and chaos and divisive conversations and arguments and riots and destroying our cities.
And then policies that were directly assaulting our biblical values and everything that was righteous and Christ-like from destroyed, I believe it started with the schools, the school boards.
They slowly took prayer and reading the Bible out of our schools.
They slowly removed the Ten Commandments from every courthouse.
They slowly removed the conversations of Jesus Christ.
But I don't want to sound too negative because I feel a revival coming with our young people.
I feel something that's happening that's so powerful.
There was a Barn study that said 50 to 55% of young people are open to the conversation of Jesus Christ, something that we haven't seen before, or at least in a very long time.
And you know what that tells me?
There's a great awakening happening right now, and I'm so excited to be a part of it.
I'm just so blessed.
I just, I just can't, I get really, really excited and just want to jump out of my seat because I feel the Holy Spirit coming into the room as we talk because I just can't believe that I'm in this time, and it's just an amazing time to be alive and witness.
Amen.
So, Pastor Josh, there's a few minutes left in the broadcast.
How can Christians balance boldness with humility when speaking the truth in a hostile culture?
Because when we go out there and we preach the gospel, you know, they may say, Well, you're being haughty or you're being prideful or this or that.
So, how do we balance humility with boldness?
You ask great question, and I love this conversation because sometimes you can seem a little hostile when you're trying, when you're passionate about your cause.
But I love what the Bible describes Jesus Christ as.
He's both the lion and he's the lamb.
There's a time to be bold and ferocious like a lion, and there's times to be humble and humility, have humility like a lamb.
And also, the conversation of the sons of Issachar, not only did they give them action, but the conversation of discernment.
You have to discern the room, the times that you're in, and the conversations you're having.
You do your best by representing Jesus Christ's message, the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And that is love, that is joy.
And, but, you know, you also can't back down to the enemy when he tries to take, take, you know, if you give him a little bit, he'll take a lot.
So, don't lose ground.
Don't give up any ground.
Stand firm on the word of God.
Amen.
We have to continue to stand word.
Pastor Joshua, if you give us a word of encouragement for someone watching today, you know, not everyone who watches the show are believers.
And praise God, we pray that you would give your life to Jesus Christ.
But, you know, we are seeing prophetic events right now.
Every generation has seen prophetic events happening, but I believe we're the first generation who has seen the culmination of all these prophetic events at the exact same time.
I really do believe we're living close, if not in the end times right now, Mondo.
But, you know, people hear the end times and they tend to start stressing that a little bit.
They say, you know, that's a word.
But we talk about the last days because we believe that there is a peace that comes with knowing that Christ will sustain you.
But sometimes there's anxiety.
Sometimes there's some worry that comes with it.
So what's a word of encouragement you would leave with our viewers today?
And what would you say to someone who maybe is on the fence about giving their life to Christ?
You know, I do believe the same.
I believe we are living in the last days.
And if you look around and if you watch the news, it can be stark.
It can look very negative and almost scary.
But I love what the Bible says: that in the last days, the Lord will pour out his spirit upon all flesh.
That means that you have instant access to him.
And if you're feeling like you're on the fence and you're just unsure, my brother, my sister, I want you to say, I want you to know that Jesus loves you.
He loves you more than ever.
He loves you like his child.
He calls you son.
He calls you daughter.
Don't look no further.
Don't look to the left.
Don't look to the right.
Look to heaven for your redemption draweth nigh.
And I just know that if you just give your life to Christ and confess to him that he is your Lord and Savior, he will change your life forever and you'll see tremendous things.
I pray favor.
I pray blessings and his divine anointing over everyone right now that's watching this episode and that is just right there on the fringes, ready to jump and trust God, my friend, my brother, my sister, trust the Lord.
He loves you.
Amen.
He loves you.
Mono, isn't that what it's all about?
It's the love of the Father that sent the Son, His only begotten Son, to die on that cross for us.
And friends, that sacrifice that was made on the cross is still good.
That covenant is still good to cover you today of everything.
You haven't done too much.
You haven't gone too far, friends, to be covered by the redemptive blood of Jesus Christ.
And we'll never stop talking about the pure and holy and righteous and redeeming blood of Jesus Christ.
We'll never stop talking about how he came here and lived a perfect life, never sinning once, fulfilling every single law, and still chose to make his way to the cross on your and my behalf, friends.
It's such a good and perfect gift.
I need you today, if you want someone to walk you through that prayer, call us.
It's 1-888-988-1588.
We would love to pray the salvation prayer with you or pray a rededication prayer.
Pray for your family.
We want to stand in the gap with you in this world where the devil tries to make you feel alone.
No, you're not alone.
You have family in the family of Jesus Christ, and we want to stand in that gap with you.
Pastor Josh, I want to say thank you for being on the broadcast with us today.
We'll have you back again on our next broadcast, but we have to go for now.
And I want you at home to remember this, that God loves you.
He really does.
Bye-bye for today.
Thank you.
We want to thank you for your prayers and support.
We would not be able to be here without you.
If you want to see more from us and our family, go to watch JimBakershow.com.
And as my dad always says, remember, God loves you.
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