All Episodes
Previous Next
Plain Text
April 17, 2025 - Jim Bakker Show
58:13
The Jim Bakker Show with Bishop Ron Webb
|

Time Text
Glad We're Here 00:05:57
Hello and welcome to the Jim Baker Family Show coming to you from the village of Morningside, USA, nestled in the beautiful Ozark Mountains.
Today, our special guest is pastor of Mount Calvary Powerhouse Church in Popper Bluff, Missouri, Bishop Ron Webb.
Your co-hosts today are founder of the PTL Network, Pastor Jim Baker, Reverend Mondo de la Vega.
And now, live from Gray Street at Morningside USA, here's your host, Pastor Ricky Baker.
Well, here I am.
Here we are.
And I'm glad to be here.
And we're glad you're here.
And I brought my, I was going to call you my best friend.
Can I call you my best friend?
Please do.
What an honor.
Amen.
Ron Webb, pastor of a beautiful church.
Yes.
That's right.
That I helped dedicate to the Lord.
You dedicated that church.
Pastor, I don't want to go too deep into this, but you've had a hurricane, didn't you?
We just come through a severe tornado.
Yes, in Pauper Bluff, and all the surrounding areas where we are.
Did it hit your church at all?
It did.
And we had some damage on our church and also our gymnasium.
It blew the whole awning off the whole porch about 35, 40 feet in the air.
This weekend?
No.
The weekend before.
The weekend before, we just had another one come through just a couple days ago.
Well, I was there in San Louis and I almost called you.
Yes.
I said, Bishop, I'm in San Louis with my kids and my wife.
I may need to run over there and hide with you.
I'm from L.A., man.
We don't know what to do when the winds come.
Where we were, actually, I had four services on Sunday.
And then we had a 2.30 service in Sykeston, Missouri.
And then the storm was coming in that direction.
We left Sykeson to go to a place called Blyville, Arkansas.
And then there was another storm, a sale forming in the same area.
So we was running into storms.
It's kind of like life, you know?
Yeah.
There are many storms that you're running into, but I'm thankful that God protected us in the storm.
Amen.
Do you know that these earthquakes and all these storms are in the Bible?
Yes.
The last days.
Amen.
We've heard about it a couple of times.
What did you preach last Sunday?
We preached the entire book of Matthew 24.
I read the entire book of Matthew 24 and I preached on Matthew 24, verse 14.
That's one of my favorite chapters in the Bible.
Amen.
How come you preached on that?
Because of you.
I said, I've heard this so many times.
It would be a shame if I didn't preach on it.
You're the Matthew 24 man.
Somebody came up to me after church and said, yeah, you got the Matthew 24 man as your father.
I said, yes, I do.
Amen.
I look so short sitting next to you.
You know, I even got a smaller chair this time.
Every time he comes on, we talk.
I even got a smaller chair this time.
I am significantly taller than you, but we won't let the people at home know that.
How tall are you?
I think I'm only 5'9.
No, Mondo says he's 5'9.
I'm taller than him.
I think I'm 5'10.
I'm 70 inches tall.
I'd never known it in measurements.
I'm 70 inches tall.
Because revealing all of our secrets to me.
Mondo's, I think you're like 5'8 ⁇ , right?
I'm 5'8 ⁇ .
God, I promise you, you're not 5'8 ⁇ .
I'm 5'9, 5'10, 6'5 ⁇ .
Hey, Daddy, you're 5'8 ⁇ , Bishop 6'10.
How tall are you, Bishop?
I'm six, three and a half.
We've given you our height.
I love you.
So, how are you today?
Do we have any real tall people here?
Raise your hand to receive any real tall people.
We got a few.
Are you tall?
We got a few people around here.
Come on.
Well, Bishop and I are writing a book together, and it should come out in about a month if we get it, if we work on it.
Do you guys have a title for the book?
I want to know that.
What's the title?
No, we don't have a title.
I won't let them.
No, no, we've got about 15 titles.
Yes, we're still working on that, but it's going to bring the rest of the people.
Can we start writing it?
I want you right now to go.
I want you to give us a sneak peek.
If you can.
We've got 53 minutes.
Take the whole time and talk about the book.
Do you want to know that you're going to heaven?
Amen.
I would love to know that.
A lot of church people won't be in heaven.
Tell us about that.
Come on.
It's not good, but it's perfect.
But listen to that.
I'm going to read first the living Bible.
Then I'll go over in King James.
But this is living.
Your heavenly Father will forgive you if you forgive those who sin against you.
Did you hear that?
But if you refuse to forgive them, are you listening to me?
We're listening.
He will not forgive you.
Did you know that?
That's what this book is about, Bishop.
It's about forgiveness.
Wow.
And the fact that so many church people have little things against people that they won't forgive them.
Bitterness And Betrayal 00:05:07
Pastor, I have the wonderful privilege of ministering somewhere in the United States once a week.
And there's not a place or city or state that we've gone through that you don't meet people in the church that's burned up with bitterness.
Bitterness is destroying a lot of people in the body of Christ.
And when you read this scripture that you just read, that you cannot be forgiven unless you forgive, that is one of the most powerful scriptures in the Bible.
If you want forgiveness, you've got to forgive.
Wow.
Even the betrayals.
Oh.
And those are the hardest, the betrayals.
Because I think David said it in Psalms 55.
That's right.
Pastor Ricky, do you have that scripture?
I think it says 55, 12.
And David is dealing with a very, very close friend.
That's right.
He said right here, my enemies are not the one who sneer and make fun.
I could put up with that or even hide from them, but it was my closest friend, the one I trusted the most.
Another version of that, Bishop says, if it had been my enemy who had betrayed me, I could have handled it.
But it wasn't my enemy.
It was my closest friend.
It was, it's the Judasis in your life.
Do you want me to tell you a secret nobody else knows in the world?
You don't even know.
And I'm helping write this book, and we have another few chapters to go.
Sure.
And some of my, what I thought were my best friends put me in prison.
I learned who they are.
15 people worked to put me away so they could take my ministry.
And The government took a billion dollars worth of ministry from me.
But I have to forgive them.
I have to forgive all those people who at my court case.
Sure.
The people who lied, the people who were just people who I had helped enter the ministry and learned trades and things.
And they're the ones when I was sitting on the trial.
They're the ones who actually testified against me.
Wow.
Wow.
You know what teaches me hearing your story 27 years is that betrayal cuts deep.
It's hard to recover some days, and there's days that I've seen you really meditate on the deep cuts of friends coming to you and kissing you.
There's the kiss of death.
It's the kiss of Judas that runs deep, that cuts so deep, Bishop.
And people often say, oh, Jim, why you keep talking about it?
Because it's the process of life.
You guys are writing it out.
It's probably the most important book.
Yes.
In this hour right now.
About a month ago, I found out the names of 15 of my friends.
Quote unquote.
And it just broke my heart.
Yeah.
And that's what David was talking about.
I could have taken if it was enemies, but it was my closest workers in that ministry.
And that's why the pain is so deep and people don't understand.
Notice what David said.
Had it been my enemies, I could have dealt with it.
But even though if it was an enemy, it still hurts.
But to know that it's a friend or family have turned against you because, you know, enemies, they're here and they're there.
But when it's a family member, you've got to see them.
See, it's one thing to live on the east side, the west side, or the north side, or the south side.
But what happens when it's on the inside?
You got to deal with that.
Those who betrayed me were even preachers.
And that's shocking.
I always trusted preachers.
I just, I don't know what's the matter with me, but I trusted them.
Prison Bible Insights 00:10:50
No, but I mean, sometimes.
I see what you say.
Everybody's always told me that.
Jim, you just trust everybody.
Yeah.
You do.
Well, I trust them before they hurt me.
But afterwards, I'm a little weary, you know, but you still forgive them.
This is what the Bible says.
Let me read this in the King James Bible.
I got my prison Bible here.
Yes.
Have you ever seen my prison Bible?
I've shown it a few times.
But every page is underlined in all different colors because that's different days of the time when I was reading the Bible.
I read through the whole Bible.
And you'll never believe this, but I only had two years of Bible college before I went to prison.
But I got a degree in theology added onto what I'd already had learned in Bible school.
And so prison can't be all bad, but it's bad.
I don't want you to do that.
You know, Bishop, there's a few mighty men of God who experienced the same thing throughout the Old and New Testament, huh?
Oh, yeah.
They've been in those same positions, right?
Joseph went to prison.
Paul was in prison.
He dealt with it.
But even Joseph is in this book that we talk about.
But here's what happened when I went to prison.
I made a whole list of everyone I had to forgive.
And I read it to God.
You know.
And God said, you haven't done what I said.
Do you want to know what God said?
What did he say?
He says, you've got to forgive them from your heart.
Wow.
Wow.
I spent, they put me in prison for 45 years.
I'm supposed to still be in prison, but God set me free.
But I learned the secret from heaven of how to go to heaven and how to be victorious.
And that's forgive everyone, but I had to do it from my heart.
Yes.
Amen.
Do you understand that, Pastor?
Oh, it's so powerful.
In this book, on one of our chapters, we deal with what you call the forgiveness test.
How do you know if you've really forgiven?
Yeah.
Sometimes people say, I've forgiven until the one that have hurt them walk in the room.
And if your blood pressure goes up, if there's a spirit of anger comes, that's a sign that you're not healed in that area.
I'm not going to give all the reasons because I'll give away what's in the book.
This book we're writing together, I don't know if I've ever really written a book with another preacher, but I am thrilled to write this book with you because I believe it's the most important book I've ever written.
It's the rest of the part of.
It's the recipe for revival.
Everybody wants revival, but there's no revival.
And we're not going to have this great last day outpouring until we understand we have to forgive those that hurt us.
Amen.
We can't go around hating each other and spitting garbage about them.
I know Christians, Ricky, no, no.
I just want you to know you're younger than me.
This is Ricky Baker.
I'm 20 years younger than you.
I was going to say protege, but you're not my protege.
I'm trying to learn as much as I can from as fast as I can.
You preach my favorite sermon Sunday.
Amen.
And everybody said they loved it.
Amen.
Tell me quickly.
What did you preach on?
Matthew 24?
Yeah, Matthew 24:14.
It's this good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed as a testimony to all nations.
And then shall the end come.
And then the end will come.
We have a sure sign that this book of the good news must be preached before he comes back.
Do you know that's a scripture?
Oh, I look short sitting next to you.
He loves that.
I mean, I look at the monitor when I sit there and you know, everybody wants Christ to come back.
We have to fulfill that commission that he gave to us to preach the message.
A lot of the times we think that God's delay is a delay, but it's not.
It's mercy and it's grace that not one would be lost.
He wants to give you time to forgive your neighbor.
He wants to give you time to forgive your loved one who hurt you.
He wants to give you the time to get right and reconciled with him so that we can fulfill really his heart of not one person losing.
You know what I've been praying the last few months?
Tell me.
I've been praying that I would be able to win a million more souls to the Lord before I die.
Amen.
Wow.
In our ministry, I'm not bragging.
I'm just giving you facts.
We counted up to with the names, addresses, and all states where they were.
Yes.
They had a call into our phones on the prayer center, and we had won at least three million souls to the Lord.
That's what we have read.
And then we stopped counting.
And that was years and years ago.
Amen.
That we stopped counting.
But I want to win at least another million to the Lord before I go to heaven.
Amen.
Because then we're going to have a reunion.
Yes.
If anybody watching now that you've been saved through our ministry, I'll be up in heaven and I want to meet you there.
Some corner of glory land, as they say.
I really believe we're on the cusp of the next great revival, even a reformation happening where Christ is going to come back for one church.
But I believe that this next Reformation, this next revival is going to be birthed out of the forgiveness movement.
That's it.
And I believe it's going to be a great revival.
I believe it's going to be heaven sent.
I believe it's not a church meeting.
It's going to be something that sweeps the world.
Amen.
And millions are going to find Jesus.
And did you know I was prophesied over when I was about 19?
I've heard it.
I've seen the prophecy written down.
Amen.
And what's what we're holding on to?
And the prophet was one of those who was well-known.
Phil.
Phil Hagar.
And he prophesied that I'd help usher in the coming of the Lord.
Amen.
So that's why I'm not dying yet.
Amen.
That's what I say.
You got at least another 30 years, 40 years to go.
Everybody says I'm dying.
No, I'm just getting shorter.
I'm just getting shorter.
But I believe that this gospel of the kingdom will be preaching to all the world.
And that's what Christian television is all about.
Yes, sir.
Absolutely.
People don't understand it.
That is the mission of Christian television: 24 years.
No, it's your job, Ricky.
Amen.
That's a big job.
I'll do it.
I'm passing it on to you.
Amen.
Amen.
And I want to see this place with millions of people coming here.
Amen.
And you've got to build some more houses.
You've got to keep growing.
Ministry is growing.
Amen.
And I'm excited about it.
And the end is not here.
That's right.
You know, I got a big plaque in my bathroom.
I have a bathroom.
Did you know that?
But I mean, no, but Lori has one and I have one.
But on the wall, it says, my story's not over yet.
Right.
You all get that sign and put it in your house.
God's not through with me yet.
Amen.
I don't walk as good as I used to.
I'm a little feeble.
But I'll tell you what, I still hear from God.
Amen.
Amen.
And Bishop.
Have you ever read chapter 24 of the book of Matthew?
Oh, yes.
Ricky, you preached it last Sunday.
That's right.
Mondo, I think you've read it a couple times, haven't you?
I preached once or twice, right?
Oh, yeah.
Beautiful.
I preached lots of times.
Amazing.
Amen.
But we are in that chapter.
Yes, we are.
I'm going to turn over there.
I didn't mean to get in there.
You haven't preached on television yet, have you?
Not yet.
Nope.
You ought to send that sermon out.
Why don't you do the show?
Put it on.
We will.
I think I think that'd be good.
Just stay home and play that tape.
All right.
You get the day off, Monda.
Whoa.
We don't have to film a show.
Come on.
But people, this is so important.
And if you don't forgive everyone from your heart, you're going to hell.
I'm sorry.
I wish it wasn't true.
But this is what the Bible says that you have to forgive.
If you want to be forgiven.
If you want to be forgiven, you have to be able to do that.
And I learned in prison that I had to forgive from my heart.
Not just words, not lip talk.
Anybody can say, oh, I forgive everybody.
But you got to mean it.
Are you listening to me at all?
This is the most important message I've ever preached in my life.
Yes.
And really, Bishop and I are been working on this book for a while, and we hope to finish it up this year, this month, and get it out there.
But there's other scriptures that are so important.
Let's go to Matthew 24, Ricky.
Can you go there?
I'm right here.
Where do you want me to start reading?
At least read.
How about I start when the disciples come to Jesus?
Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and his disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple.
Signs in the Sky 00:08:46
Yes.
And he replied to them, Do you see all these things?
Truly, I tell you, not one stone will be left here on another that will not be thrown down.
While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, Tell us when will these things happen and what will be the signs of your coming and of the end of the age?
Jesus replied to them, Watch out that no one deceives you, for many will come in my name, saying, I am the Messiah, and they will deceive many.
For you're going to hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see that you are not alarmed because these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
For nation will rise up against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
Hold on.
Yes.
Can I read that?
For nations shall rise against nation and kingdoms against kingdoms.
Yes.
Is that now?
That's right.
Every major country that has a great army and all is rising up against another.
That's right.
You know, in the Greek, you go back to the words, ethnos, is actually ethnic group.
What it's really saying is there will be kingdoms against kingdoms, nation against nations.
There will be ethnic groups against ethnic groups.
That's right.
That is actually what the text is saying is.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you.
That's right.
And you shall be hated, Ricky.
That's what they're doing by all nations because of my name's sake.
That's Jesus talking.
Because of his name.
Because of his name.
You know, I lost Heritage USA, and most of you young people don't even know what Heritage USA was.
It was miles of property.
I had a place for kids, for old people, for anybody.
And I found out recently that 15 people got together to take it away from me and to destroy it, actually.
And then shall many be offended and shall betray one another.
There it is.
And shall hate one another.
This is why you can't hate people.
You can't keep hating everybody.
And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity, that's sin, shall abound, the love of many will wax cold.
That's right.
That's what's happening to the church.
It'll grow cold.
Millions have dropped out of the church.
Because of offense.
Right.
This year.
That's right.
America is dealing with the spirit of bitterness, Bishop, in ways that we've never seen before.
Meaning, people that you never thought that will act out on bitterness are burning up cars or destroying, you know, the way of life.
How connected is bitterness to unforgiveness?
Oh, where there's unforgiveness, it leads to bitterness.
That's why the Bible says, be careful that you don't get a root of bitterness.
Because wherever there's a root, you're going to bear the fruit.
And so we're seeing now even Christians that's coming through prayer lines.
And I remember one of the prophets said to a lady that came to be healed in the prayer line.
And he said, the Holy Spirit revealed to me that you cannot be healed until you forgive.
And the individual broke down.
And when she forgave, then healing came to her body.
Amen.
See, when there's unforgiveness, it blocks blessings, it blocks healing, it blocks deliverance, it blocks everything.
And, you know, Matthew 24 puts it right there, as you said.
Yeah, there's wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, diverse places, nations rise against nations, pestilence in the land, but then many shall be offended.
We live in an offended world right now.
I mean, and there are so many Christians that go to church that's dealing with the spirit of bitterness because they won't let it go.
That's right.
That's right.
I didn't mean to preach your sermon, Ricky.
You preach it better than I do.
I've been preaching it for longer.
That's right.
I'm older than you.
That's right.
You know that?
Quickly.
For then shall be tribulation.
This is what's coming.
Amen.
Right?
Yes.
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.
No, nor every shall be.
Again.
And except those days be shortened, there shall be no flesh saved.
That's right.
But for the elect's sake, those days are going to be shortened.
Those are the days we're coming on right now.
That's right.
We think everything's going to be okay because Trump's in our president.
But he is facing hell.
He is facing people burning Tesla plants, trying to kill him.
They're trying to kill the owner of Tesla, right?
Yes.
Except those days be shortened, there should be no flesh saved.
That's how bad it's going to get.
That's right.
But for the lack's sake, the days shall be shortened.
We're entering these end times faster than you think.
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe it not.
For there shall be false Christ and false prophets, and they shall show great signs and wonders.
Inasmuch that if it were possible, they should deceive the very elect if it's possible.
It's not possible.
Amen.
Behold, I've told you before, wherefore they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert.
Do not go forth.
He is in the secret chamber.
Believe it not.
That's right.
For as a lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
Amen.
Quickly.
Amen.
Right there.
You want me to keep reading?
Yes.
I'm telling you, my book, Bible, this is my prison Bible.
It's marked up so much that it looks like Joseph's coat.
I'm having a hard time reading it all because it's so high.
Go ahead.
It says, wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather.
Immediately after the stress of those days, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not shed its light.
The stars will fall from the sky and the powers will be shaken.
This is what's coming soon.
That's right.
Amen.
It's going to be things that shock you.
You need to be right with God and not be mad at everybody or anybody.
You have to forgive if you are to be forgiven.
Amen.
Did you understand that?
Yes.
Okay, go on, Ricky, read some more.
It says right here, then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
He will send out his angels with a trumpet, and they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of the sky to the other.
You know, right there, it says in verse 30, then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky.
Well, friends, we're in Matthew chapter 24.
There's 30 verses before that one of things that must take place, things that have to happen before he comes back in all of his glory.
Yes.
It says this in lesson 32.
We talked about this on Sunday.
We don't know the day or the hour.
And if anyone claims to know the day of the hour, just know you're safe on that day and that hour because the Lord, it's the time nobody knows, but we know the season, friend.
Forgiveness Is Not Easy 00:15:34
It says here, learn this lesson from the fig tree.
As soon as its branch becomes tender and its sprouts leaves, you know that summer's near.
In the same way, when you see all these things, recognize that he is near at the door.
Yes.
He's on his way.
I'm asking you to preach that sermon on TV.
Amen.
In fact, you got to record.
Isn't it put it on television one day?
Okay.
We'll do that.
Because this is our third show on Thursday.
This is where we're going real soon.
People, you're the quietest people I've ever preached to.
Say amen.
It's an intense message.
That's powerful.
Bishop, you and I are writing a book about forgiveness.
Yes.
This chapter 24, I've been preaching it all my life.
Yes.
And thank God you're preaching it.
Amen.
Because this is the next step.
Yes.
Well, you know how much it's so increasingly difficult to go through these things because these things cause turmoil in your life.
Mondo.
When you're actually in a country that is facing war, when you're in a war-torn area, when you see nations rising against nations, we see ethnic groups hating ethnic groups.
It is a stressor on a person.
And I'll tell you right now, it is much easier to go through these stresses if you have a soft and pure heart towards the Lord.
If you're dealing with all these things and you're dealing with unforgiveness and you're dealing with bitterness, that'll be a heavy heart.
And one more to add and write this down.
Resentment.
Resentment.
Yes.
And I want to tell you something.
Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
Absolutely.
And this is a battle that we're watching right now in marriages, in ministry, in business, in political realms, in every realm that you can think of, Bishop, because it's amazing that the Bible says that out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth will speak.
Yes.
That as a man thinketh, so is he.
So is he.
And the way people are thinking and what they're communicating is nothing but what we've just been talking about, bitterness, unforgiveness, wars.
Listen to this.
There's a war around the corner that is brewing between China and Taiwan that comes out of resentment and bitterness.
And we're going to watch it turn the world upside down.
Then you go back to Israel and you're watching resentment and bitterness with Iran waiting to strike Israel that we are one step from World War III based on bitterness and resentment.
Yes.
And people want to know what's the answer.
Well, Romans 12, 9 says, do not take revenge, but leave room for God's wrath.
For it is written, vengeance is mine, saith the Lord.
I will repay.
So you have to understand, you have to leave the judging to God, and you have to leave the payment to God.
God will repay.
It's not our job to pay.
You shoot my dog.
I kill your cat.
You never resolve anything with that mindset.
You have to trust God to heal the broken heart and the wound.
That's right.
You know, as a brother, tell me, people use bitterness and resentment to affirm their brokenness.
Absolutely.
But God didn't come to affirm our brokenness.
He came to heal us from it.
Come on now.
He's nigh unto them with a broken heart.
And a broken and a contrite spirit he will not despise.
So if you're dealing with unforgiveness and there's a lot of prayers going up for revival and, you know, restoration.
But hey, I believe that forgiveness is the doorway and the gateway and the recipe for revival.
It's the catalyst.
Amen.
It's the catalyst.
Praise God.
You know, I'm going to read this in King James.
I read it in the living Bible.
The King James, some of you folks that live by the King James.
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Father and Heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Amen.
But if you forgive not men their trespass, that means sins.
That's right.
But he will also, let's see, forgive your sins.
But if you forgive not men their sins, trespasses, neither will your father forgive your trespasses or sins.
You know what the CSP, it says, this is a Christian standard.
It says, for if you forgive others of their offenses, your heavenly Father will forgive you as well.
But if you don't forgive others, your Father will not forgive your offenses.
I've always thought that God forgave our sins, but we have to forgive people their sins too.
Absolutely.
Look at the prodigal son.
You know, he messed up, but he fessed up and then he got up and said, I believe I'll rise and go back home.
And I'll say to my father, which is in heaven, Father, forgive me.
But not just to my father in heaven.
I'll say to my natural father, forgive me also.
Sometimes we think we can go around people to go to God.
We have to ask one another for forgiveness and then we have to forgive ourselves.
This book that we're writing, how important do you think it is?
I believe, and I've written a lot concerning leadership.
You know, that's my heartbeat.
But I'm telling you, this book that we're writing on forgiveness, I believe will be one of the greatest books that's ever written because it's the pathway to revival.
It's the pathway to freedom.
Because there's so many people tied up in bondage.
How many people you know speak in tongues, but won't even speak to one another.
Yes.
Simply because of bitterness that's in their heart.
It is eating them alive.
The problem is in many churches, and you're in a different church almost every week.
Yes.
Now, this is terrible to say, but almost in every church, they've got a holiness.
No, no, not holiness.
Holiness is good.
But they have one who acts holy.
Oh, self-righteous.
Self-righteous.
Yeah.
And they're not picking their pastor.
They're net picking everybody in the church.
But that's wrong.
They're not even going to heaven, the Bible says.
Yeah, it's a religious spirit.
It is.
And the enemy uses that to attack God's people and especially leaders today.
You know, it is so, so important that you walk in forgiveness because I'm telling you, Jesus says, and I think it's Luke 17, he says, offenses will come.
There's no way you can get around it.
You're going to deal with the spirit of offense, but don't let it stay there.
Amen.
Get healed from it and move on.
Why are you writing this book with me?
I've said it with me, but I'm just a small part of your book.
But I think it's the most important book I've ever written.
Well, first of all, you're a general in the kingdom of God.
And you've probably forgotten more than what we know.
That's the truth.
While you just said that, something has been coming to me all day.
I was in a revival meeting, and there's this crippled up woman, just awful crippled up.
And I found out that she had unforgiveness in her heart.
Yes.
And as far as I know, she never forgave.
She lived in it and she would not forgive.
If you forgive everybody, God forgives you.
Yes.
I've had people that stole a billion dollars from me.
Some stole millions of dollars.
And I had to forgive them before I got out of prison.
But I tell you, if you want to know how to get out of prison, if you ever get in prison, make sure you forgive everybody.
But Pastor Jim, think about how many are in not a physical prison, but in an emotional and a spiritual prison right now.
They are.
Because they can't get free.
And the recipe for deliverance is forgiveness.
Amen.
And it's not easy.
Let me say that again.
Forgiveness is not easy, but it is necessary.
It's critical.
It's critical.
And so I hear people say, well, you know, when you start talking about forgiveness, sometimes a spirit rise up in people and they get angry.
And the first thing they say is, well, you don't know what I went through and you don't know what happened.
Well, if the truth be told, we've all gone through something.
We've all dealt with something or all dealing with something.
But the answer, my friend, is forgiveness.
No, it's not easy, but it's necessary.
It's not one of the multiple choices.
You have to forgive.
You have to forgive.
Oh, I like that.
That's powerful because, you know, it's either we do or we don't.
It's not multiple choice.
We have to forgive.
And people will tell me, oh, I forgive everybody.
And they say, I don't want to be around that person.
I hate that person.
They haven't forgiven.
Well, that's a part of the, in the book, that's a part of the forgiveness test.
Amen.
Because there's a test that's being given, you know.
Give me another point from the book.
Sneak preview.
Well, I think the freedom part is so important.
A lot of people are in bondage now in their families.
There are people that don't even speak to one another in their families on the job, co-workers, in businesses, and it's because they are bound with bitterness.
But the moment that they release it, then there's a freedom that will come to them like they never experienced before.
And then I think it's key too, Mondo, that we even mentioned in the book that the word of the Lord says, if it be possible.
Now notice this.
If it be possible to live with peace, live peacefully with every man.
But in some cases, it's not possible.
See, we're called to be peacemakers, not peacebreakers.
But God sets us free.
And I've heard people say this.
Well, what if you forgive them, but they don't forgive you?
But guess what?
You're the one that's free.
And if they choose not to forgive you, then that's on them.
I wish we could get it.
I wish we could get it through to everyone that it's not a multiple choice question.
Oh, that's powerful.
In fact, that's in the book.
It's not multiple choice.
You have to forgive if you're going to heaven.
And a lot of Christians are church people.
I'm going to come Christians.
They're church people.
Are bitter and unforgiving.
And they're not going to heaven.
Right.
And when Stephen was being stoned, he looked up and says, Lord, lay this charge not against them.
That's right.
He forgave them.
And so there's another chapter.
I really don't want to get in too deep, but and I tell you, it ruffles a lot of feathers because the Bible tells us not to take our brother to court.
Uh-oh.
Yeah, it's getting quiet in here.
Uh-oh.
That did not go over well.
Well, but rather suffer loss.
Come on.
And in that idea with you win by losing.
Wow.
You know, you make the decision, and when you make the decision, you have to trust God.
Now, I think it's important that we note that it is a process.
Even though we forgive it, it takes a moment for that heart to heal.
Can I share something with you?
I think I shared it last time on the program.
Dad, watch this.
I began to fast.
I decided to fast, and I said, Lord, I'm going to fast.
Show me, God, your will.
What is the first thing you want me to do during my fast?
I kid you not.
If you want to know where God's thermometer or roll call or forgiveness lays or lies upon, the first thing was forgiveness.
I received a call immediately after praying that prayer, Dad, you're not going to believe this.
I receive a call from the person that God said you must forgive that person.
Wow.
And I looked at my phone and I hesitated answering.
And I said, God, this is the funniest thing that has ever happened to me.
I asked you, what is your will during this fast for my life?
And here you're showing me the first thing you want me to deal with first is unforgiveness.
I immediately call that person and before they can even ramble on, I said, I want you to, I need to ask you something.
I need you to know that I need to ask, would you forgive me if I offended you?
Now, granted, I didn't do anything.
I wasn't involved in this whole mess in life that happened between me and this person, but I was holding bitterness and unforgiveness towards this one person.
And I said, I don't want to go.
I don't want to die right now and knowing that I'm going to go to hell because I knew better.
And in that moment, and you know what?
It took five minutes and I felt so free.
Yes.
I don't have to hide from this person.
I can watch this person.
Matter of fact, every time I drive by this person's house, I said, bless them, Lord.
You have passed one of the forgiveness tests today.
Oh, yes.
Amen.
I got it written down.
Forgiving 70 Times Seven 00:13:11
You have passed the test.
You know, it says right here in Matthew chapter 18, verse 21, this is the parable of the unforgiving servant.
It says, then Peter approached him and asked, Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me?
And I've preached this in our church.
It says as many as seven times, and he was probably feeling good.
I'm going to give a big number.
Seven times, Lord.
How about I forgive him seven times?
And Jesus said, I tell you, not as many as seven, Jesus replied, but 70 times seven.
No, for those who aren't good at math at home, that's 490 times, he's saying.
Right here, you know, Bishop, I cleared this point with the church.
I said, the Lord does not expect you to forgive 490 times because the Lord doesn't expect you to keep count.
Right.
He expects you to just forgive and forgive and forgive.
Bishop, that's the key to the Christian life.
That's what separates us from other religions.
That's what makes God the way, the truth, the life, is that he gives us the keys to the kingdom.
And one of those keys is forgiveness.
I have that written down, Matthew 18, 21 and 20.
Tell us, he tells us to forgive 70 times 70.
This number represents God's grace and unconditional love for us.
Christians don't keep count or keep score.
We keep going.
Come on.
We forgive one another and keep going.
Amen.
I'll tell you, Bishop, this book is so hot that it's wonder doesn't burn your hands because it's hot.
It is.
It's the most important book ever written beside the Bible.
Absolutely.
Because that's the only thing that I know of that's keeping church people from heaven.
Are you listening to me?
If you don't forgive, you will not be forgiven.
That's what the Bible says.
That's what Jesus says.
So you just forgive everybody and then you're free.
You're like a new breeze comes into your life.
You know, those commercials where they're singing in the field or something.
They're running through the field.
I got one more scripture here that I'm going to read.
Ephesians 4.
Yes.
Verse 32.
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted.
Forgive one another.
Forgive one another.
Even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Oh my God.
I believe this is what God is waiting for, and this is what's going to send revival.
It's church people getting right with each other.
That's it.
Pastor Ricky alluded to in the green room where the scripture says, be kind, be good to them, especially to the household of faith.
Amen.
Yes.
And we have to start by forgiving our brothers and our sisters in the household of faith.
Our faith brothers and our faith sisters first.
What a powerful point that was made there.
Amen.
We have to forgive and be kind one to another, forgiving them as God for Christ's sake has forgiven us.
Amen.
I could preach the whole Bible right now.
I'm sorry.
You're the guest, so I want you to go.
Oh, I'm loving this.
Give us some more about this book.
I want to go back, and I know our time is running out, but I want to go back, and these are just a little excerpts and snippets.
It's in 1 Corinthians, I believe, where Paul talks about don't take your brother to court.
And I really believe that sanctification.
And church people have done that.
1 Corinthians chapter 6, verses 1 through 8.
Paul says, I dare, this is in King James.
I dare any of you having a matter against one another, go to law before the unjust judge and not before the saints.
Do you know?
Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world, and if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Come on.
We should be, Isaiah says, come let us reason together.
Saints should be able to reason.
And if we don't agree on every issue, you're still my brother, you're still my sister, and I still love you.
We don't walk away in hate and with a vindictive heart or revenge.
Man, I tell you, people, I mean, we got spiritual police in the church now.
God didn't call us to be detectives in the kingdom or police his people.
We've got to forgive one another.
We have to have this cleansing before Jesus comes back.
Otherwise, you're not going with him.
Yes.
It's so unbelievable that people have missed this point.
In fact, I believe it's salvation.
It's the very epitome of salvation.
It's a very part of salvation that they just ignore.
Yes.
And we got so many scriptures.
If you get this book in a few months, it's going to.
And you know, it was interesting.
You asked me several months ago, how was this book birthed?
I mean, what caused you to write about this?
I was sitting in your living room several months ago and we were talking and the topic of unforgiveness came up in your home.
And from that, I mean, it's just like a light come on.
And when I was driving home that evening after we had done a show, I went by your house and we visited for about an hour or so.
But the Holy Spirit spoke to me even while sitting there and just sharing different stories about restoration on the power of forgiveness and how so many people were walking around with unforgiveness in their heart.
But when you read the scripture, you can't be forgiven until you forgive, man, that adds a whole new light on everything.
So if I'm going to pray and ask God for forgiveness, I've got to be willing to forgive people that have hurt me and then forgive myself for hurting other people.
Even if I wasn't in the wrong, you still have to forgive.
What if they were close to me, though?
You still have to forgive.
You know, what if all the questions that the Christian life has?
You know, what if it was my pastor, though, Bishop?
You still have to forgive.
Amen.
You know, because you're dealing with arms of flesh.
Amen.
And for some pastors, what if it was my congregation?
He has to forgive.
Amen.
I was just preaching in Arkansas last night and I got on that very thing.
You know, I hear people say, oh, there's no hurt like a church hurt.
I understand that, but hurt is hurt.
Whether it's church hurt, family hurt, divorce hurt.
I mean, betrayal hurt.
We need another hour in this.
That's right, Bishop.
We got to come back.
Come on.
Yes, we got to come back.
It's almost over.
But look at here in Ephesians 4.
Putting on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and holiness, wherefore putting away lying, speaking evil, and speak every man truth and his neighbor, for we are members one of another.
Yes.
Be ye angry and sin not.
Let not the sun go down upon your wrath.
Let him that stole steal no more, but rather let him labor, work with his hands the things that needeth.
I want to go up here quick.
And be ye kind.
Yes.
This used to be a kid scripture, but it's not for kids.
It's for you.
Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Amen.
And praise God.
What's another favorite part of this book that you got?
Well, I don't know if I'm asking you to preach the whole book.
I quoted the scripture earlier about the unjust servant.
This servant owed his master much, much money, but he couldn't pay it.
And the man released him of the debt.
And then the Bible said in return, someone owed him not, I mean, just a fraction of what he owed.
That's right.
And he grabbed the man by the neck and started choking him and demanded his payment.
And Jesus calls him unjust.
That's right.
You know, we see right here, Matthew 24, at the end, verse 45, right here, it says, Then who is a faithful and wife servant who his master put, put in charge of his household to give them food at the proper time?
Blessed is that servant whom the fast master finds doing his job when he comes.
Truly, I tell you, he'll put him in charge of all of his possessions.
But if that wicked servant says in his heart, my master is delayed and starts to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with junkards, that servant's master will come on a day he does not expect and an hour he does not expect.
I'm going to tell you something.
We can't beat our fellow brothers.
Can't do it.
I think Ricky told me this, but I'm not supposed to tell anybody.
You know me.
Don't tell me anything you don't want me to tell.
I don't even know what I told him, Bishop.
I'm going to find out right now what I told him.
No, it was Mondo properly.
Oh, boy.
I agree with Mondo.
The media is coming out with a scandal program.
Yes.
Hurting all the preachers that have fallen.
Yeah.
This is the largest.
And they're going to bring up the news like it's all new again.
And it's going to try to destroy the church.
Well, the devil hates the church.
And so just be in knowledge of what's happening.
The devil, if time is short, and he wants you to go to hell.
He doesn't want you to go to heaven.
And so you need to ask God to forgive you.
And you need to forgive everybody else.
And you will be saved.
And your household will be saved.
Amen.
Amen.
Bishop, would you close in prayer quickly?
We only got a second left.
Yes.
Well, thank you for affording us the opportunity.
And you joined us today on this program.
Maybe you're dealing with some personal issues or some bitterness that you've harbored in your heart and you need to release that.
Or you got friends or loved ones that you know that's so bitter that they don't want anything to do with the church.
Matter of fact, when they hear the word church, it's a bad word to them.
But I want you to know the gateway to your freedom today starts with forgiveness.
And here's the good news: if you forgive, our Father in heaven will forgive you.
And Lord, forgive us for all of our sins.
Yes.
And we forgive all those that have brought harm and hurt to us.
And Lord, forgive us for bringing harm and hurt to others.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Wow.
Praise God.
And this is so important.
This is the most important message that I could ever preach.
And we just touched the surface of God's grace to forgive.
And he wants you to follow in his steps and forgive everyone.
Yes.
And then you're free.
Then you're free.
I don't have to straighten anybody out.
I don't have to make anybody else.
What a burden off of us.
It's not our job to fix other people.
It's God's job.
It's our job to forgive other people.
Well, it says it's time to go.
We're over time.
We've lost.
So God loves you.
He really does.
Amen.
God bless you.
Good show, Dad.
Export Selection