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March 31, 2025 - Jim Bakker Show
58:19
The Jim Bakker Show with Curtis Liebl
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Aliens, AI, and the Antichrist 00:05:08
Hello and welcome to the Jim Baker Family Show coming to you from the Village of Morningside, USA, nestled in the beautiful Ozark Mountains.
Today our special guest is author, speaker, and founder of River of Life Ministries, Curtis Label.
Our co-host today is Reverend Mondo De La Vega.
And now, live from Gray Street at Morningside, USA, here's your host, Pastor Ricky Baker.
Hello, you're watching the PTL Television Network, friends.
We have an exciting broadcast for you today.
Don't turn that dial.
We have Curtis Liebel with us today in our broadcast studio.
And this is an amazing book.
We're going to be talking about The Four Horsemen.
It's a topic that not a lot of people want to get into, but Mondo, he has written an incredible book that dives into really who these characters of the Bible are.
What's fascinating is that I think about 10 different teachers that have taught on this program about the four horsemen.
And I can't wait to hear Curtis's take on the four horsemen because when you gather all the information together, I can tell you that God is still speaking, God is still revealing.
And don't hold yourself, you know, away from learning more.
I think the key is learning more, researching more, and allowing yourself to accept other perspectives.
That's why we had Matthew, Luke, John, Mark.
I mean, you had different people writing about what Jesus was going through and the life of Jesus from different perspective.
And what if this book right here has a different perspective that you have never seen that can open up the book of Revelation in a different way?
That's right.
I can't wait.
We're going to be talking about that today, friends.
Before that, we are just a few weeks away from our Ready Now Expo 2025.
We're going to be talking about Aliens, AI, and the Antichrist.
That is the name of this conference.
We have some incredible guest friends.
I want you to watch this and really, really pay attention because we're going to be asking some hard questions and we're going to get them answered from a biblical perspective from subject matter experts.
Watch this, friends.
Is the Antichrist alive right now?
Because when he comes, he's coming just you will have all been prepared.
Your hearts are ready, all prepared for his revelation.
Will artificial intelligence control our lives?
With artificial intelligence, we are summoning the demon.
Are aliens real?
And have they already visited our planet?
We're entering a period of great uncertainty where we're dealing with things we've never dealt with before.
The one that controls AI has enormous power over everyone else.
The world is changing at a rapid pace.
And the biggest questions of our time demand answers.
Why the secrecy if it's really no big deal and there's nothing there?
Why hide it?
Join us for Ready Now Expo 2025.
Aliens, AI, and the Antichrist, April 10th, 11th, and 12th.
Where faith, preparedness, and revelation collide.
What are preachers going to do when they stand before the throne of God?
Don't miss this powerful event featuring event speakers, prophetic insights, and groundbreaking discussions that could reshape the way you see the future.
Are we entering the final frontier of humanity?
Very soon, we will be beyond the God of the Bible.
Register today for our Ready Now Expo, Aliens, AI, and the Antichrist at www.readynowexpo.com.
Ready Now Expo 2025.
Go to ReadyNowExpo.com.
It's a free event if you want to come attend here in person at Morningside, or you can watch online.
Mondo, we have pastors streaming this for their church right now.
We have some incredible guests coming.
We had just a guest the other day on the show, and we were telling him all the people who are going to be here.
And he said, I'm actually going to have to come back from Michigan.
He's actually going to be a part of this event, but some incredible guests we're going to have.
Listen, you have Carl Gallops, a man that knows his Bible.
I love this guy.
Dave Robbins is another one.
The Gilberts.
Oh, man.
You can just sit around and listen to the Gilberts all day.
By the way, you can watch them on the PTL network.
But you have to have Dr. Jennis Lindsey.
Oh, thank you.
Joe Anderson's going to be here.
Listen, this lady is so fascinating.
Yeah, she's brilliant.
I don't know if you ever heard her, but she is fascinating when it comes to the subject matter of aliens and the Antichrist and AI.
She's brilliant.
Joe Horn, amazing man.
That's right.
Listen, his father, Dr. Tom Horn, wrote some incredible books, but also was a great preacher.
Wow, what a preacher.
And I believe that Joe in that ministry, Skywatch TV, is going to a different level.
Geopolitical Winds of Change 00:05:49
It almost seems like when, you know, when dad goes away or dad retires and the kids take over, don't give up on the kids.
Come on, somebody.
You're going to make me preach, but we got one of your dear friends, Dr. Dennis Lindsay.
That's right.
Yeah, his father was the founder of Christ for the Nations Institute in Dallas, Texas.
And we're excited to have him here.
He is an expert on the book of Genesis.
I'm telling you, you're going to be blessed by coming to this conference or streaming it online.
So go to ReadyNowExpo.com and you can find it there.
Well, friends, we have Curtis Liebel with us today.
He has served in Christian ministry as a senior pastor and founder of River of Life Ministries, a non-denominational Christian church.
And today, he's retired from pastoring and now serves as an author and a speaker.
And he has authored a book titled The Four Horsemen: The Winds of Theopolitical Change.
I want to say thank you for being on with us.
Thank you, God bless you.
I appreciate it.
Amen.
Tell us what prompts a man other than the Holy Spirit to write a book about the four horsemen of the apocalypse.
Well, I tell you, it is a very large, fascinating subject.
Yes.
And it was pretty intimidating to approach it.
But the Lord gave me pieces over the years.
So it's like, you know, prophecy is like a whole table of puzzle pieces.
And he gives you different pieces at different times.
And sometimes they click together.
And when they do, they make a picture.
And so these little pictures have been forming throughout the 45 years I've been in ministry.
But it's for such a time as this that some of the key pieces I believe came into place, opened up the scriptures, and really revealed why the four horsemen are important and what their function is.
You know, before we get deeper into talking about the four horsemen, he spent some time writing about the first cities and the importance of the cities.
Let's talk about that before we dive in.
Why did you feel it was important to write about the cities before you wrote about the actual horsemen?
Right.
So the subtitle of this is The Winds of Theopolitical Change.
It's taken off this idea of geopolitics.
And geopolitics is a study of factors in a region that lead to power structures and nations.
So it comes from this concept that if you want to rule the world, if you want to dominate the world, it's dominated by nations which are built by city-states, which are built by cities.
And so again, if you want to dominate the world, you got to build a city.
Now, who was the first city builder?
He wasn't a good man.
He was Cain.
He was a rebel.
Yes.
Right?
And so this is our introduction in the Bible to cities.
And it's not put in a positive light.
It's put in more of a negative light because he was in exile.
He was in the land of Nod.
Well, you fast forward post-flood, and there's another major city, Genesis 11, that's talked about.
And it's built by another rebel, Nimrod.
Yes.
And it's Babel, the city of Babel, the famous tower of Babel.
And, you know, of course, God comes down, sees it, and says, this is not good.
Yes.
And then he scatters it.
So our introduction to cities has always been a power play for who's going to dominate the earth.
Is it going to be God and his people?
Or is it going to be an adversarial force?
That's right.
An underworld that's trying to usurp dominion away from mankind.
You know, it's interesting, Mondo, because we see the rise of what they call 15-minute cities, especially here in the United States of America.
You know, California just went through the devastating wildfire, and the first response really was, hey, don't worry, we're coming back better with a big city, and it's going to be a 15-minute city.
I mean, do you think that's intriguing, isn't it?
It's not a coincidence.
And now listening to you makes sense of the pieces coming together.
When they build a city, they change language.
They change values.
They change politics.
They change ethics.
They change even about religion.
They change everything.
Curtis, why do you believe that cities have an influence in society, yet we don't even really understand completely why cities are there?
The city of Chicago, the city of New York, the city of Los Angeles.
There's power behind calling something a city, isn't it?
Absolutely.
I mean, we look at our wonderful country going through the turmoil that we're going through right now.
But even through our elections, we look at how big cities, major cities influence the election more than the general population.
And why is this?
Why are these power centers so much levers of control?
And this is where I believe cities come into the conversation.
And so we have to figure out, you know, what went into or what goes into building cities?
What powers or forces are at work that want to make sure that these nations and these different empires, and we'll talk about, you know, the metal empires of Daniel.
I'm very excited about that.
Yeah, why these are important to God.
And if they're important to God, hey, they should be important to us.
Amen.
You know, you mentioned in another discussion that there is a key scripture that helped you unlock the identity of the four horsemen.
Can we talk about that?
Absolutely.
I'm interested.
You know, we're going to have to wait a little bit later in the show, but I need to know what's the identity of the four horsemen?
Because I believe that's the times we're living in.
It is.
And, you know, a lot of times we have, in ministry, we've reduced the four horsemen to the book of Revelation.
Four Horsemen Discussion 00:15:37
And we have just assumed that they're coming in the end.
Right.
But the reality is in scripture, when you dive in, they're actually talked about in the Old Testament.
Yes.
In the book of Zachariah.
And why are they introduced then?
Why are we introduced to them during a time when Israel's in captivity, the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar is the force in the world.
And now we're introduced to the topic of the four horsemen.
And it says in Zachariah chapter 6, starting with verse 2, he introduces the chariots, the red horse, the black horse, the white horse.
So we know this is the horseman.
Verse 4 says, Then I spoke and said to the angel who was speaking with me, what are these, my Lord?
Now, isn't that our question?
What are these?
Why are they here?
So he's asking that very same question.
And the angel replied to me, these are the four spirits of heaven going forth, standing before the Lord of all the earth.
Now, here it is, it says, these are the four spirits.
So what this begins to unlock is that anywhere where we see the four spirits or the four spirits of heaven, that's a key, a key word for the four horsemen.
But there's another Hebrew word that unlocks another part of this, and that the word spirit there is Ruach.
Now, Ruach also means wind.
It means breath, wind, or spirit.
But in the Hebrew, it's simply the same phrase, the four Ruach of heaven.
So the second verse that unlocks in this passage actually points us to Daniel chapter 7 in verse 2 and 3.
It says, Daniel said, I was looking in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven, the four Ruach of heaven, were stirring up the great sea.
And the four great beasts were coming up out of the sea different from one another.
So here, the four beasts are the metal empires.
Yes.
The four winds here are the four horsemen.
Okay.
And they're stirring the sea, which is the sea of peoples, right?
Yeah.
So this informs us that the four horsemen are responsible for the rise and the fall of each metal empire.
So that begs the question then, because we hear, Mondo, we've heard a lot of Revelation teaching as well, is the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are a very specific only end times event, that the four horsemen will only be released at the very, very end, and that's when we'll see a third of the earth killed by this and these specific events happening.
Could it be then that the four horsemen have been riding really all along, and we are just now noticing that?
I believe that's what the scripture informs us, and history informs us.
Wow.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
You're going so fast.
All right.
I'll slow down.
This is powerful.
I don't think you realize how powerful this scripture is.
20, I want to say, I'm going to be conservative.
20 years I have studied the book of Revelation with Pastor Jim and others.
Never once.
You were there half of that time.
Yeah.
No one ever pointed out to this scripture.
That they would be writing.
Because of you, I'm seeing the book of Revelation in a different way from this moment on.
Yeah.
Thank you.
And I have been in ministry for many years and never saw this.
It was for such a time as this that the Lord gave the download.
Wow.
Wow.
And this ties into so much.
There's something I just want to interject here, and that is a lot of people have labeled the four horsemen as these nefarious adversarial beings, right?
I think that's the wrong picture because Zachariah says they're part of the Lord's patrol.
They're working for him.
They're not working against him.
Yeah, I want to read that because this is exactly what it says right here.
Zachariah verse 6.
Wait, do you feel the same way?
Yes.
Amen.
Listen, I've been relearning something.
We put more emphasis on the devil and his works than we do God and his Son, Jesus Christ.
And no wonder we have a lack of faith.
No wonder we have God has been under control even with the horses.
Yeah, he's been in control.
Right here, look at this, Mondo.
Zachariah 6.
I'm going to start with verse 5.
It says, Then the angel told to me, these are the four spirits of heaven going out, presenting themselves to the Lord of the whole earth.
The one with the black horses going to the land of the north.
The white horse are going after them, but the dappled horses are going to the land of the south.
As the strong horses went out, they wanted to go patrol the earth, and the Lord said, go patrol the earth.
Amen.
So they're working for him.
They're not working against him.
You know you're about to get 20 theologians come after you after that.
I understand completely, but I am confident that scripture stands for itself.
And so there's another picture that I get with this.
If you really put the context from chapter one to chapter six, God in this passage is called Yahweh Sabaot, which is Lord of hosts.
That's giving a military connotation.
He's the Lord of the armies of the army.
So we're talking about armies now.
And then it says the angel of the Lord is with the four horsemen having this discussion.
Now, we know the angel of the Lord, I believe, is a pre-incarnate picture of Jesus.
Jesus Christ, that's right.
So, and then you have the four horsemen.
So, I put it into like an image: you have the head, which is Yahweh and his divine counsel, and then you have the right arm, which is an extension, which is Jesus.
And then the four horsemen are the hands, right?
And so, let me go a little bit farther.
Please, we have made the world this giant chessboard, and all the kings and queens are like the chess pieces in all their courts and even the horses, right?
We often want to try to make the four horsemen one of the chess pieces.
Which one is it?
But I believe that they're the hand that moves the chess pieces, the power behind those forces.
And that's why we've never really successfully unlocked them until I believe now.
Wow, for such a time.
This is why, Ricky, we keep telling you, stop.
Oh, can I say this?
Stop fearing the book of Revelation.
That's right.
It's the greatest book, the only book that says you'll be blessed when you read it.
Right.
There's a reason why.
Stop fearing.
Stop.
Listen, if you have a Bible teacher that is fear-mongering you through the book of Revelation to manipulate you, stop it.
It's not the right answer.
Yeah, it's a book of victory.
Oh, I'm seeing.
You know why, sir?
I want to call you pastor.
You've been a pastor.
I don't like calling you Curtis.
That's a disrespect in my culture.
Thank you.
I called him a doctor at the beginning of the story.
Hey, listen.
Theologian, I mean, listen, you have unlocked a mystery, at least for me.
Because it could not sit well that God will send four horses to terrorize the world.
Right.
It doesn't make sense.
No.
But the way people have taught it and the way the presentation was, this red horse is going to come in with war.
And I'm thinking it doesn't sit well.
It may represent a little bit of that.
I'm not saying.
I'm not knocking that.
Yes.
But I could not picture in my mind, my simple mind could not accept that God will use his last event to terrorize, yet not have control.
How can he lose control?
Right.
He's always been in control.
And there's a key that's it.
Scripture says that it's God who sets up kings and brings them down.
Amen.
He sets up nations and brings them down.
This doesn't happen by accident.
And if this happens, what powers does he use for the rise and fall of nations?
And I believe that's the four horsemen.
You know, you mentioned the four horsemen show up at different times in history.
And I just want to go over that quickly.
Give us some examples of them showing up in history.
Good question, Ricky.
Well, the obvious is this point in history when Nebuchadnezzar is king, and we have a situation now where a time piece has been entered in.
God gives a download to Jeremiah and says, my people are going to be in captivity for 70 years.
Well, here's the problem.
He also said a different ruler is going to set them free.
That'd be Cyrus.
He also says that it's not going to be a Babylonian king.
So in 70 years, and in this case, toward the end of those 70 years, one nation has to fall.
One nation has to rise and come into power.
The ideologies have to change.
For example, Babylon was polytheistic.
Many gods, pantheon of gods, of course, clashing with the Jewish monotheism.
And they weren't about to let the Jewish people have their way or have their nation.
But then the Persians ride up.
The Misen Persians rise up, and they have a monotheistic view that's based on Zoroastrianism.
And that monotheism caused them to be, I believe, sympathetic to the Jewish people and said, okay, now we'll let you go back to your land and build your temple.
See?
So who orchestrated all those changes?
It's the four horsemen that each have a function that brought the kingdom's change to pass.
That's incredible.
We see them throughout history.
You know, I want you to tell us more about these forces that guide and shift our thoughts and beliefs because you're saying they're able to take down kingdoms, establish kingdoms, but also thoughts and beliefs.
Because before a city is built, there's a belief that the city can be built.
So let's talk about that.
I know, are these things, you know, they're out clearly riding.
I mean, there's no doubt about that now.
They're clearly galloping the earth, patrolling the earth.
But what are they doing to change the beliefs and the thoughts of man?
This is a real powerful piece, and so much so that he made it a function of one of the horsemen, and it's the red horse.
Now, the book of Revelation says the red horseman has a great sword, and it's given to him to take peace from the earth.
But I ask you this question.
Now, every horseman is involved in the war.
What makes him special?
And what's more important?
The sword or the pen?
The pen right there.
Right?
And the pen represents words, which represents thoughts and ideas, ideologies.
So if you want to stir up a war, you have to first deal with the ideologies.
And I call this the war of isms.
Polytheism versus monotheism.
Socialism, communism versus capitalism.
We're facing that today.
What is the threat in our society?
It's the clash between a free market capitalist society and a tyrannically controlled communist socialist society.
And these ideologies are clashing.
They actually began to clash at a specific time in our recent past, which is 1917, the Bolshevik Revolution, Marxism through communism started the clash from the East to the West.
And it became the ideological battle between nations.
You know what?
So when you study the book of Revelation, especially chapter 6, many books have been written about this.
Many interpretations have been written about this.
You are bringing a different perspective to shine a lighter light.
There's a flashlight, then you have studio lights.
Right.
And studio lights reveal the big picture.
Sir, I believe that you are, God has given you wisdom to reveal the big picture because a lot of it we've been focusing on China being the red horse.
The big source, some have interpreted to being a nuke war, right?
The biggest bomb that Earth has ever seen.
Then, I mean, we can go down the list, but here you're bringing a big picture to really step back and look at it from a different perspective where now your heart is not troubled.
Right.
That's right.
See, you mentioned historical moments when we see these things happening.
So what we're identifying is not words as say horseman or red horse or black horse.
We're looking for function.
Whenever these functions begin to happen and they're supernatural, then they have to come from a source.
Now, if they're not adversarial, but God himself is causing that, that's where we see the function of the four horsemen.
Now back into Mesopotamia, we have all these pantheons of gods that motivated, that caused one to be in power, the other one to fight the other one.
So religion is also an ism that gets tacked onto the red horse.
And when we saw the rise and fall of Mesopotamian civilizations, it had to do with their deities.
It had to do with their gods.
And so one superseded the other.
You know, for example, Marduk, they latched onto, or excuse me, Babylon, latched onto Marduk as their deity.
He was the son of a father creator God.
And that became their driving force.
But at some point, the statue of Marduk was taken out of Babylon.
They said, we're not going to serve him.
And this caused upheaval.
Now, is it possible that the red horseman, when wanting to change the power structure, goes in first and rattles the ideologies?
You see, because you're not going to get war or power changes unless people are so deeply convicted that they want to actually fight for their cause.
Wow.
And this is where it takes peace from the earth.
That's why the great sword takes peace from the earth.
You know, in the section of the book, it's called Two Women, Two Cities, and Two Destinies.
How do these ideas connect?
So we go to a very basic beginning in the Garden of Eden.
Now, the adversary, the serpent, Satan, could have gone to either one, Adam or Eve.
Why did he choose Eve?
Some people will say it was because Eve was a weaker vessel.
I don't believe that's true.
I believe he went to Eve because Eve actually had the power of influence over her husband.
It's the old saying, you know, the husband is the head, but the wife or the woman is the neck that turns the head, right?
And so this is why the enemy has focused on women, specifically in society, for the changes, whether they're adversarially bad or in God's instance, they're good.
The Assembling of Nations 00:15:27
For example, Jerusalem is referred to by gender.
It's a she, it's the mother of all.
And then when Babel and Babylon begin to develop, well, the book of Revelation calls her the great harlot.
It's still a woman because of her influence.
But this woman, this corrupt woman, causes all the kings of the earth to drink from the wine of her cup.
It's the cup of fornication.
So they're all in league.
Another picture from Revelation, the beast system.
Well, what's riding the beast system?
What's controlling, holding the reins?
It's the woman who rides the beast, right?
So we have this idea in the very beginning, two cities in the other, one city Jerusalem, one city Babylon, that arc all the way through the Bible to the end of the book.
And you have the holy city, Jerusalem, which is the bride of Messiah, a virtuous woman, wonderful.
Yeshua, Jesus, chose to identify all of us that believe in him as his bride.
There's a reason for that.
But then you have the other contrast.
You have the great harlot of Babylon.
Two women, two cities, two destinies.
Well, we know that the destiny of the virtuous woman is to be the bride of Messiah.
The destiny of the harlot is to fall.
And the four horsemen are going to come in and they're going to make sure she falls.
Okay.
That is the two destinies.
Well, I'm telling you, this is incredible.
You know, I want to go ahead and tell people where they can get your book.
I know you self-publish, but tell everyone if they want to order a copy of this book, where they can go to receive a copy of your book, The Four Horsemen: The Winds of Theopolitical Change.
Well, the first place you can find the book is on Amazon.
Just type in The Four Horsemen, my name, Curtis Liebel, and you're going to find that come up right away.
And we offer it in a hard copy, a paperback, and a digital version.
If you want further information, I have a website called the Zerubable Report.
The Z Report for short, because a lot of people are like, How do you spell Zerubable?
Yeah.
But the Z Report.org.
And you can go on there.
The book information is on there.
You can get a little glimpse of a read, you know, if you want to see more or read more about the book.
But then there's other information, other teaching on there.
Tell me about the cover.
This is a fascinating cover.
This is a unique cover.
I want to, we got to make a shirt out of this cover.
Yeah, there's a lot to do because there's a lot to unpack here.
But unpack the cover.
Why this cover?
Why the key elements of the horses riding on water?
I mean, talk about it.
Yeah, so Mondo, a lot of work had to go in to getting this cover the way I envisioned it.
And there was probably 15 iterations before we got to the place where I thought it represented the vision that God gave me.
And so, first of all, of course, you see four horsemen.
They're not four cowboys.
You know, they're four horsemen.
They've got an off-world feel.
They've got this intensity and that they're going out and whatever they're going to do is going to be powerful.
But then behind that, you have the city of Babylon.
Because really, as we opened up with the idea that cities are the first basic centralization of power, and it's the cities that battle in the end.
And then, of course, you have this water underneath the horseman.
Now, that's symbolic of Daniel 7:2, which we talked about: that the four winds stir up the waters, and jumping from them are the four metal empires.
Okay, so the picture really says that the four horsemen are the ones who bring about the empires of the world.
Wow.
And listen, this ministry is all about working together with other ministries, supporting one another.
This is what it's all about, Ricky.
Unity in the body of Christ comes when God opens the floodgates of heaven to support one another.
Sure, we have a platform, and God bless you for supporting this platform.
Don't forget, every single month, we need your support.
If you haven't become a partner, if you haven't visited the website to check out the affiliate programs that we have with Grid Down, Chowdown, New Mana, Cardio Miracle, listen, I know you get tired of us talking about it, but it's just a reminder to let you know in different ways that you support this ministry.
And when you support this ministry financially, when you tithe or give your donations every month, we can bring people like Pastor Curtis to where we can send people over there and support them.
That's the whole key because the gospel's got to be preached, Ricky.
And it takes all of us together to do that.
Amen.
I want to say thank you again.
This book is available on your website, thezreport.org.
Is that correct?
And then you can also go to Amazon where you sell the book as well.
You said to type in the four horsemen and then Curtis Liebel, it'll pop right up.
We'll put a picture of the cover on the screen so you can see it right there.
You know, in this book, you talk about the four horns and the four craftsmen.
How do they connect to the topic of the four horsemen?
That's a great question.
And it was a mystery that was tacked into Zacharias, actually, chapter one.
And we're introduced to these ominous creatures, if you will, four horns, four craftsmen.
But I believe there's so much to reveal in that.
And it goes right along with the four horsemen.
So it's introduced with this passage that talks about the four horsemen.
I'm going to break it down simply, but I do expound on it in the book.
But the four horns are the forces that scatter.
So any time that God wants to scatter, scatter a nation, whether it's the nations of the world, or even scatter his own people.
Right?
How many times have we seen that the northern tribes, for example, went into exile?
Was there a supernatural force scattering them?
But what we don't often realize is that scattering is done for a purpose and on purpose.
And it's meant to multiply with the idea that in the future there will be a regathering.
So anytime you take a seed, it's in one spot, and you throw it many other places, it produces much more fruit.
And then you can go harvest that fruit.
So here's the function of the four horns.
We can see throughout history there are times when the horns actually worked alongside human kings and human armies to do the work, the scattering.
But then you have this other force, the four craftsmen.
Now, these are four strategists.
These are what we would call the deliverers.
So when you get a force like under Gideon in the Bible, he was there.
He was a judge of Israel.
And the Midianites started coming in, and he realized that this was not good for Israel.
And so the scatterers came in to try to scatter the people and take the crops.
God raised up a deliverer.
And to do that, it took a strategist.
Somebody say, okay, these oppressors can no longer work.
They have a time limit.
We have to stop this.
And so the deliverers are raised up to keep the horns from pushing too hard and too far.
And so I call this in another place.
This is the oppressor analysis.
And you have oppressors and you have deliverers.
This is a pattern.
And we know that the Bible is all about patterns, repeating patterns.
So we had to find the pattern of scattering and delivering.
And it will point us eventually to Jesus himself, who is the great deliverer.
He delivers us from everything.
You know, Matthew chapter 24, Jesus is talking.
He's talking about the last days.
And he says, all of these events are the beginning of labor pains.
That's Matthew chapter 24, verse 8.
You know, Jesus compared the end of days to a pregnant woman who's about to go into labor.
He calls them birth pains.
But you tie this in with the four horsemen.
How can that be?
So let's start with the woman and the pregnancy and the child that's going to be born.
I believe this is a picture of Revelation 12 where we have this man-child that's going to rule the world.
In a nutshell, I go into more detail in the book, but Jesus says to the church of Thyatira, if you overcome, you will rule the nations with a rod of iron.
He's talking to the believer.
Now, we know it includes Jesus, but he's seeing us in that equation.
So this man-child is not just the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem.
This is the birth of the one who's going to come, those who are going to come and rule the nations.
And this is the theme.
So the birth pains are to bring to pass the true rulership, the true kingship that's going to happen.
And you have the opposing force now, the dragon, poised right there to try to take out the man-child.
All right?
Inride the four horsemen.
What is the mission of the four horsemen?
I believe we start with the white horse.
We see two mission objectives.
The first mission objective of the white horse is, first of all, color.
White is finality.
It represents finality in the Bible.
For example, we have the white throne judgment.
It's the last judgment.
We have Jesus coming in on a white horse.
It's the final ride to victory.
We have the saints given white robes because it's the final righteousness, right?
So the white horseman is this final rise of the nations.
And he's responsible for making sure that happens.
And so mission one, gather the nations.
This is taken off a passage of scripture that I found in Zephaniah chapter 3, verse 8.
And it says, Therefore, wait for me, declares the Lord, for the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, my decision is to gather nations and to assemble kingdoms, to pour out upon them my indignation and all my burning anger.
So here is, I believe, the first mission of the horseman, to gather and assemble nations.
So we all talk about one world dominant totalitarian government, right?
That doesn't happen in a vacuum.
Something, before you can take power, you have to take power away from nations.
So you have to take individual sovereignties away so that we can have a global government.
When did, in our recent history, we see individual sovereignty of nations begin to fall.
And I'll give you a quick snapshot.
There's a lot in the book.
But in the turn of the century, we saw 2,000 years of Chinese dynasties fall.
Yes.
That's huge.
Very.
Within years, and now coming up to 1917, World War I, we saw 200-plus years of Russian czars fall.
That power structure fell, Bolshevik Revolution, communism, right?
But another key component is there were 400 years in which the Ottoman Empire had control of the Levant, Israel, and everything that was important to God.
And until it was time to release that, the Ottomans held it.
But in World War I, the British defeated the Ottomans, and 400 years fell.
And so that collapse of sovereignties, in my mind, begins to mark the change.
And then birthed out of that is the mission, gather and assemble.
So is it possible that the four horsemen, specifically the white horse, is responsible for the rebuilding of this new global system?
After World War I came the League of Nations, which became the United Nations.
All of them were struggling to find that pathway to globalism, but they started it, right?
They were the initial force.
So this first mission started to unfold 1917 through World War I.
And it continued on to World War II.
So when a horse, I believe, when the horse rider starts, he keeps riding.
He doesn't stop and then the other one starts.
It's a continuing process.
World War I, World War II.
Today we have all of the different clashes and the loss of sovereignty.
And now we're looking at Donald Trump wanting to invite Canada to be a part of the U.S. or get a hold of Greenland.
We've got a new Gulf of America, right?
And so what is this?
This is, again, a pulling together, a unification.
A second mission of the white horseman.
So he had to start that process.
The second mission was to make a pathway for Israel to become a state.
Now, when did that happen?
1948.
So that's when they became a state, but the path started in 1917, World War I.
Oh, the British were given the mandate now that the Ottomans were out of the way.
And there was the British mandate and the Belfour Declaration.
Both of those ideas and those, there was a letter written by General Allenby that actually started the process of patriation.
And so the Jews could now come back to the land, and it culminated 30 years later in this state of Israel being birthed.
But something had to start that process.
The white horseman had a mission objective.
Wow.
Wow.
Listen, this is fascinating because it is completely opposite of what I have learned for 20 years.
That's right.
Not that it's wrong.
It's just that it's a new thing.
It starts different.
Absolutely.
It's almost like auto-correction taking place.
That's right.
To bring it into perspective, right?
That's right.
You know, the last chapter of your book is titled The Final Ride.
And you just talked about this, The Assembling of the Nations.
Let's talk about that.
So that, again, is an objective.
That's a planned event.
And only Yahweh knew when that was going to be.
But to do that, you have to get the whole world involved.
You can't assemble the entire world and nationalities and the powers, structures of governments and masses of people without a huge event.
And World War is that huge event.
It's a beginning.
But the Red Horse rode in that ideology, right?
So it wasn't just going to battle.
It wasn't just fighting.
It wasn't just the Allied forces and the Axis forces.
But we had this ideological force.
And now, about half a century earlier, we were introduced to a man named Karl Marx.
And Karl Marx had an ideology that flew in the face of everything that was around him.
There's a book written by Paul Kinder.
It's The Devil and Karl Marx.
And he chronicles just his life and his writings and his ideas and how they were intended to create revolution to upturn or to turn over the current system of the world.
One Point in History 00:01:36
And of course, it was Vladimir Lenin who embraced Karl Marx and they created this communistic manifesto.
And this became the ideology that shaped the world.
World War I.
Now, is it a coincidence that those two missions, the mission of the white horse, the mission of red horse, land on one point in the calendar, one point in history?
Well, I could do the same with the black horse, the fall of the stock market.
The 10 worst stock market crashes happened between 1915 and 1929, with several of them happening during the war.
Black Horse Rider.
We could talk about the pale horse, which is disease and pestilence.
You know what disease was introduced into the world in 1917?
Spanish flu.
Oh, yeah, the great influenza.
Yeah, the first iteration of influenza, H1N1.
And then we have all the H5s, all of these iterations that happen after that.
But it started there.
And so what I began to realize was we have all these things converging in one point in history.
Is it possible that this is where we see the beginning of the four horsemen and the countdown to the end?
Wow.
God has been involved all of this time.
Sixth Seal Celestial Event 00:07:23
That's right.
And the timeline of it.
You know, in the chapter, The Final Horseman, you write right here, or excuse me, in the book, you talk about the fifth seal martyrs.
And I'm opened up to this right here, Revelation chapter 6, verse 9.
We see the fifth seal.
And the souls under the altar.
You see this as a key timeline passage, a timeline passage.
Can you explain that?
How is that a timeline passage for us?
So this was instrumental in helping me to process when the first four seals were breached.
Because if you put the fifth seal in a certain time frame, that means four have already had to be broken because they are consecutive.
You don't jump from one to another.
Yes.
Now, when we consider souls under the altar, and I know this is going to probably ruffle some feathers because I don't believe they're Christian martyrs.
And I'll tell you why.
Souls under the altar, first of all, if you are a believer in Jesus, you are partakers of what's on the altar.
You're not under the altar, right?
Because the sacrifice of Jesus is on the altar.
But God has always had a soft spot for the descendants of Abraham, the Jewish people.
And he has an end-time plan for them.
So when he wants to start this plan, he deals with this subject of judgment that had to take place.
Israel had to go through a final judgment as declared by Deuteronomy 28, the curses that come when you disobey and this great final judgment.
But here are some souls now under the altar, and they're under the altar because of their testimony and the word of God.
Yes.
Now, any other place in the book of Revelation, when it talks about believers in Jesus, it says the testimony of Jesus.
These martyrs do not have a testimony of Jesus.
They just have a testimony.
And it's attached to keeping the word of God.
Well, the word of God is another term for the commandments or the Torah.
Right?
And so when we have this group that's there, their testimony is that they keep their identity.
So you believe these are the Jews?
I believe these are the Jews of the Holocaust.
Wow.
And he says, wait for a little while until your brethren go through the lower.
So if that is, and then there's one more qualifying factor.
The souls under the altar are crying for vengeance.
From the book of Acts and on, no Christian, no believer in Jesus ever cries for vengeance.
Father, forgive them.
They don't know what they're doing.
So the fact that they're crying for vengeance actually ties to Deuteronomy 32, where Moses declares that God will avenge your people.
Wow.
And so they're actually quoting a scripture.
They're quoting the Torah and saying, when are you going to avenge us?
This is why they haven't partaken of what's on the altar yet.
Wow.
You know, they're under the altar.
This is incredible.
Listen, this is why there's such warfare against the Holocaust.
Iran denying it and students today denying that ever happened.
Satan wants to erase it like it didn't happen.
But if it did happen, which I believe it did, we all here believe it did.
History proves that it did.
And we know now if this is truly, this fifth seal is these people, then it gives us a timeframe.
The fifth seal was breached with the Holocaust, with World War II.
That means the four seals had to open before it.
Wow.
Where do you believe we are?
That was my next question.
I know you were thinking that.
I got to look smarter than you.
No, I'm kidding.
I was thinking that event, where are we?
Yeah, where are we?
We'll share the question.
Where are we according to Bible prophecy about the return of Jesus Christ?
Yeah.
Well, I love the discussion that's out there.
Everybody putting pieces on the table.
It's necessary.
We all have to examine everything.
But when there's some key pieces, I believe, that fall into place, then we have to readjust how we put our pieces on the table, right?
And so I believe that we are between the fifth and the sixth seal.
The sixth seal is very obvious.
There's a celestial event in which the sky rips apart and stars fall and the sun goes black, the moon turns red, and then there's a great earthquake.
We have not seen that happen yet.
Can I read that for them real quick?
Absolutely.
It says right here in Revelation 6, verse 12, the sixth seal.
When I saw him open the sixth seal, a violent earthquake occurred.
The sun turned black like sackcloth, made of hair, and the entire moon became like blood.
The stars of heaven fell to the earth as fig tree drops its unripe figs when shaken by high wind.
The sky was split apart like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the generals, the rich, the powerful, and every slave and free person hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.
And they said to the mountains to the rocks, fall on us and hide us from the face of the one on the throne and the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come.
And who is able to stand?
Yeah.
Wow.
And those are very descriptive.
Yeah, we haven't seen that.
No.
We've seen blood moons.
We haven't seen it completely turn like blood while the sun is also black.
We had the violent earthquake.
So, yeah, I agree.
I agree with that.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
And there was, you know, what I believe this describes is most likely an asteroid that's going to come through, rip through our atmosphere, not hit the earth, but rip through, part the sky.
All these satellite meteorites are going to fall into the earth because we know that stars can't come from light years away and crash in.
And many of those are bigger than the earth itself.
These are not literal stars.
These are what look like stars.
And that's why I believe that they're the satellite meteorites that fall in behind the big asteroid.
And then the asteroid itself has a seismic effect on the earth.
You have that gravitational force of an asteroid coming through.
The earth is going to shake.
The fault lines are going to quake.
And if you split the fault line, for example, in the Atlantic Ocean, what's going to happen?
You're going to have a plume of smoke that goes up into the air and it's going to block out the sun.
A nuclear winter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so to me, this describes that celestial event.
That's what we're looking for.
So that is what's next.
So that's what's next on the timeline then.
That will really kind of be what is the next big seal.
That is our sixth seal event.
Right.
Meanwhile, the four horsemen are still riding over here.
So that event is looming, but we're still seeing the final rise of power of the beast system.
We're still seeing the final influence of the great harlot.
And so that is going to, you know, come into this seven-year period, this three and a half years of the beast's reign.
You're going to see the lockdowns that come from these events.
And just like COVID, we're going to see a greater lockdown.
Zerubbabel's Prophecy 00:08:29
And we're going to then see that this beast has power for a short season.
Antichrist figure, the temple.
So all of these pieces are happening here.
This is exciting.
But the seal that we're waiting for is the celestial event.
Come on, man.
Oh, when you talk about that, I get excited because it just makes me think that the king is coming back.
Jesus said, We got to be ready.
We got to continue to minister.
We got to continue to win souls.
We got to continue to help people and be ready for the signs.
Amen.
This is amazing that you brought it into perspective.
And thank you for writing this book.
You're welcome.
Appreciate you.
You know, I just want to get the conversation on the table.
Well, you sure did.
This is really what I believe the Lord does at different times through different people.
You know, I'm certainly not the only voice that's out there.
But when the Lord gives us a piece and he says, put this on the table, I want my watchmen on the wall to see this.
I want them to consider these things.
That's the urgency that I felt when I wrote this book and now wanting to get the conversation going.
Tell them one more time where they can get your book.
Yes, you can go to Amazon, just type in the four horsemen, my name, Curtis Liebel, C-O-R-T-I-S, L-I-E-B-L, and you're going to see the four horsemen pop up.
We have three different versions, the hardcover, the paperback, and the digital version all available.
You can also go to my website, which is thezreport.org.
And you can learn what the Z stands for if you go under the website.
It's a great-looking website.
I was there yesterday.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, can we scroll on the screen?
I think we have it.
I think we have the ability to do that.
That would be great.
Amen.
So we're going to show that on the screen so you guys can see it as well.
But what an incredible book.
You've brought such fresh perspective.
You know, friends, I believe, like I said, we bring the people here so that they can give you new perspective.
Then you can go open up the word of God yourself and make an educated decision.
Be like the Bereans in the book of Acts, where they received the report and then they went and sought out the scriptures to ensure it was true.
Everything you're saying, though, is Bible.
That's what I appreciate this.
This isn't a bunch of this.
You know, I had a dream or a vision about this.
You're just taking it right back and you're saying, this is what the scripture is saying about this.
That's incredible.
Listen, every page is the Bible, the Bible, the Bible, the Bible.
And then I thank you for writing the chapters very short.
You get to the point.
Don't fluff it up for us.
We don't have time for fluff.
I don't know about you.
I don't have time to be hearing stories.
Take me to the word, baby.
Take me to the king.
I want to know what he's saying.
And this is what you've done.
Listen, this is why the PTL network is here, is to find men like this.
That's right.
Man, you are worth it.
Every fight we've been through.
That's right.
Every struggle.
Every attorney general that tried to sue us and everybody that came against us for this moment.
This is why the PTL network is here.
This is why the Jim Baker family show is here, is to find men like this.
And thank you, Skywatch.
Josh, thank you for bringing this man.
We ought to trust you more.
Golly.
No, but listen, we get a lot of people come through here and send books and books and books.
Hundreds and hundreds.
But every now and then you get a gold ticket.
No, this is incredible.
Oh, man.
The four horsemen, the winds of theopolitical change.
Yes.
Well, first of all, I quote three different authors, and everything in the book is cited.
You know, there's 158 references in the back.
So if you want to know that what's in the book is at least somewhere that's not just a fabrication of my mind, you're going to have places to look.
But to your question, Ricky, you talked about the word theopolitical.
And I think this is a key to everything that's happening here.
Some people have a different biblical worldview that God just set everything in motion and then stepped back and let things happen.
But I don't believe that's what the scripture teaches us.
Great kings like Nebuchadnezzar, he was brought low.
Seven years, he lost his mind.
And at the end, he has this epiphany in which he says, now I realize that the Most High is ruler over all kingdoms and all dominions.
And it's just a powerful statement made by a powerful ruler that acknowledges that God's involved.
Come on.
And God has always been involved.
He's always been in control.
He's never going to be out of control because he's far above every single thing that has ever been created because he created everything.
This is an incredible book.
The thing I love about this, as I went through, this is the first time I'm actually getting a physical book.
They printed off, you know, I think it was, you know, hundreds of pages of manuscript.
And I was sitting there pouring over it last night.
No, it's good.
I was pouring over it last night and I thought, this is incredible because you continuously, I don't think there are, you know, more, it doesn't go more than like two pages without having a Bible verse in the pages, but also you continuously just continue to point back at Jesus.
And you let people know the king is coming.
This isn't a fearful book.
This is an educational book that lets you know that we have a great savior and he's coming back for his people.
Amen.
That is the ark of I can't wait for it later today, Pastor, to go back to my son and share this great news.
Amen.
We talk about this every day, and he said, Dad, did you learn anything new?
Well, I did today, son.
He typically has to say no.
No, I'm just kidding.
Amen.
This is an incredible book.
Once again, go to amazon.com, type in the four horsemen and Curtis Liebel.
That's C-U-R-T-I-S.
We'll put it on the screen as well.
L-I-E-B-L Lebel.
And then you can go to your website, which is thezreport.org.org.
We'll put that up on the screen as well.
Look for that on Amazon.
You'll see it right there.
We have the website right there.
You can freaking scroll so you can see it.
The Zerubabel.
Did I say that right?
Zerubabel.
Zerubbabel report.
Don't ask me to say it.
I was going to say, Mono, you want to give it a shot?
You can see right there.
So what can they find on this website?
Whenever they go here, are they just going to see?
Tell us kind of a little sneak peek what they're going to see.
So you can learn a little bit about Zerubbabel.
Zerubbabel is actually a descendant of David.
He's royalty.
And he's the one chosen to be the governor for the rebuilding of the temple.
Now, this becomes important because it's a pattern of a future rebuilding.
All right.
So the idea, and Zerubbabel is also given a prophecy that God will in one time, in the end, shake kingdoms and shake nations.
Now, this is prophetic at his time.
It's happening in our day.
And so the idea of the Zerubbabel report is if Zerubbabel were here today and he had a microphone, he'd be reporting on this shaking, this falling of kingdoms, everything that's happening.
There would be news going out.
And that's really what I wanted to capture with the Zerubbabel report, that there's news going out.
Amen.
And there's good news going out, friends.
It says in Matthew chapter 24, verse 14, I believe it is.
Let me pull it up.
I believe, yeah, it is.
Actually, I can't pull it up fast enough.
It is Matthew 24, 14.
This good news will be proclaimed as a testimony to all nations.
And then the end shall come.
That's what it says.
Just took my brain a second to jog it.
But I'm telling you right now, there is a good news message that is going to be preached to all nations as a testimony to everyone.
And that is that there is a good God who loves you.
There is a king who died on a cross to cover your sins, friends.
Give your life to Jesus.
If you're not a believer, there's never been a better day.
You know how you can ensure that Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13, the Revelation, the, you know, Zechariah, Daniel, all these prophecies don't scare you, is to know you're on the winning team, friends.
When you are a believer in Jesus Christ, you are not fighting for victory.
You're fighting from victory.
Victory has already been given to you.
We just have to endure to the end.
Matthew, or Luke chapter 21 says that those who endure till the end shall gain their lives.
Friends, we want to see you endure till the end.
Pastor Curtis Liebel, I want to thank you for being on the broadcast with us today.
God bless you.
Friends, I'll encourage you to go get this book, Amazon.com, or AmazonYet.com, or you can go to thezreport.org.
Get this book.
Support this man of God.
Pastor Curtis Liebel, again, thank you for being on the broadcast.
Friends, that's all the time we have today.
Remember, God loves you.
He really does.
This is an incredible book.
Very good.
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