The Apollo Astronaut Vs The Skeptic...I Watched All 4 Hours So You Don't Have To
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We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in.
Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want.
We think too much, feel too little.
More than machinery.
We need humanity.
We know the air is unfit to breathe.
Our food is unfit to eat.
As if that's the way it's supposed to be.
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You have met all the primal forces of nature.
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Men who despise you, enslave you, who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think, or what to feel, who drill you, tired you, treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder.
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Showtime!
It's time to buckle up for making sense of the madness.
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Hey, everybody, Jason Burmes here, and I spent a large portion of Tuesday watching a debate between leading Apollo skeptic Bart Sobrell, a funny thing happened on the way to the moon, and Astronauts Gone Wild.
Those are like the old school ones.
Like literally, I think that those documentaries, if they're not 20 years old, they're close.
And they may even be more than 20 years old.
So Bart Sobrell versus Apollo astronaut Charles Duke.
And I believe Duke in this interview is about 88 years old.
Now, I don't want to discourage anybody from watching it themselves.
If you've got the four hours, maybe you do want to check this out because there were certain things about the entirety of the interview that really caught my ear and it caught my eye.
And what do I mean by that?
I mean that the things that Charles Duke was saying in the very beginning, plotting out how he got involved in Apollo, what his duties were on these Apollo missions.
You know, he's part of mission control in the beginning, and then he eventually becomes one of the astronauts.
I think in the second to last trip to the moon, there were six lunar landings to the point that he actually does go.
Okay.
And all I can say about that description is that it is continually to me extremely robotic and scripted.
Now, that doesn't mean I think that Charles Duke thinks he's lying, by the way.
One of the things early on that Bart Sobrell says when Danny Jones, you know, says, hey, you know, you've probably debated a ton of people on the Apollo missions and the moon landings.
And he goes, well, actually, no, I've never really debated anybody.
He's like, I've discussed my evidence with people that have been indoctrinated, but I've never wanted to debate anyone unless he said it was one of those that was actually involved or a perpetrator.
And he goes, and here we are.
You were able to actually get one of these astronauts.
And remember, in Astronauts Gone Wild specifically, this is where Bart actually gets an interview with a bunch of the different Apollo astronauts.
He gets kicked in the ass on camera by one of them.
And they play, they don't play the ass-kicking part, but they play the part after where you can hear the audio of, I think it's one of the astronauts' sons, like literally saying, Should we call the CIA and have this guy whacked?
Take all that with a grain of salt.
Okay.
What I took away from this is that Charles Duke is actually a pretty sharp guy, pushing 90 for a number of reasons.
But when confronted with the idea that he never went to the moon, he kind of just breaks down into laughter and talking points and just doesn't address any of the evidence presented by Sobrell.
He just says, well, we did it.
Well, we did it.
So in this video, and it's going to be much shorter than four hours, I promise, we're going to go over some of those things.
And I've got this clip of Charles Duke with Glenn Beccaval people that is going to come into play and I think tail into the disclosure issue that we just talked about earlier in the week, extraterrestrials, etc.
Because I think that's also really, really important.
So as we delve into this, as we discuss this debate, please thumbs it up, subscribe, share, ring that bell for the notifications.
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Now, anybody can go over to sabrel.com.
And for instance, you see right there something that's been discussed for a very long time.
Bill Casing was one of the guys that really said, hey, look at these photographs.
The light sources don't make sense if it's just one light source and it's the sun.
I think that when we're talking about Apollo, when we're talking about proofs, that's not something I bring up, if at all.
Okay.
And one of the things that really bothered me about this is that Bart Sobrell never brought up how far the rest of the world has gone into space.
Yes, the talking points of the Van Allen radiation belts were there.
Yes, the talking points of the amount of fuel it would actually take to get to the moon were there.
Yes, The video of what seems to be the Apollo astronauts staging a video of what is supposed to be the Earth from far away, but is clearly not the Earth when they turn on the lights and where the camera is positioned.
All that stuff is here.
Now, it is stretched out over a very, very long period of time.
And I want you to take a look.
This is what Charles Duke looks like, okay?
And at one point, first of all, Charles Duke gets a, it's about a half an hour window to kind of tell his story.
And in that window, there's really nothing I haven't heard before.
And when I say that he tells it in a very robotic manner, it's the same talking points of getting in.
And I think this guy probably has achieved some really amazing things.
So I want to make that extremely clear.
I believe that we have been to space.
I believe that low Earth orbit is a real thing.
I think there's a good possibility that we may have even been farther than low Earth orbit with other technologies that are not rocket technology.
But none of that is discussed.
Okay.
Absolutely none of it.
And when they're talking about government corruption in particular, and when I say they, Danny Jones and Bart Sobrelle, because when they try to bring up this government corruption, especially during that time period with Charles Duke, he just kind of dismisses it.
And the type of government corruption that I'm talking about here are programs like MKUltra.
Now, I want people to really think about this.
When you're in a highly classified government program where you're literally giving your body over to the military, and this guy's an ex-Air Force guy, he's a general.
He's got a top secret clearance.
All of that is acknowledged.
And continually, Bart Sobrell says, look, man, no one ever comes forward and says they're guilty.
No Nazi war criminal ever said I did this or that.
Everybody, you know, maintains their innocence throughout.
But especially when I hear the talking points, I think back to the film The Manchurian Candidate.
And not the excellent film with Frank Sinatra.
That's a great film.
I would encourage, first of all, I'd encourage everybody to watch both of those movies.
And I'm not trying to get all Hollyweird on you.
I just think that both of those films are done extremely well, especially for their time periods and make some really good political points, overtones, undertones.
And then really the technology of these things.
If you've never seen the Denzel Washington version of Manchurian Kennedy, it's a must-watch.
Okay.
And full spoilers here.
You know, I'm not going to give away the whole movie, but the movie, I think it begins with this modern day dogfight with military personnel in the Middle East, okay, of this unit.
And as the movie progresses, you find out that this thing never happened at all.
And that instead, all this unit was part of a mind control program.
And in that mind control program, they're all in the same room.
They're all being told things in repetition.
I would imagine they also have them drugged up on top of like types of hypnosis.
And essentially, all of these people are made to believe they did something that they didn't.
Okay.
And most of them shut down when they're confronted with something else.
Why do I say that in this case?
Every time a point is made, okay, and again and again and again and again, Charles Duke says this.
He goes, I don't understand the point of this discussion.
Where clearly, and I don't think this is him with dementia or senality, because he's extremely clear-headed.
And Sobrell actually, numerous times, and here's the big annoyance with Sobrell.
He repeated the same things over and again.
I mean, the same talking points from the film he had to the NBC producers that said it was real again and again and again and again.
But one thing he mentioned like four times is that when they first came into the interview, that Duke said he remembered their phone conversation like 20 years ago because he tried to get Duke on camera as well.
And then Duke is like, he basically says that he didn't or he's surprised.
And every time, knowing he was there for a debate, like Danny Jones had sent him Bart's website.
Obviously, Danny wasn't, you know, trying to do some gotcha journalism with him.
Every time he would go, wait, you don't think we landed on the moon?
He'd just laugh.
He's like, yeah, no, that's why we're here.
And again and again and again, just Charles Duke says the same thing.
He goes, well, wait, you don't believe?
Well, we did it.
And then every time a point would come up, for instance, the Van Allen radiation belts.
And here was another annoyance of mine that Bart didn't seem to talk about the latest dragon capsule with SpaceX, where supposedly they went the farthest in space.
They had gone since Apollo, over a thousand miles and into the Van Allen radiation belts.
That was the two-man, two-woman crew.
So they don't mention that, but they do mention the fact that the only spacecraft ever to go through the Van Allen radiation belts would be these Apollo missions.
And they talk about a 12 to 30,000 mile berth.
It's like coming off the Earth and going through them at this incredible speed and how dangerous they would be to human life.
And they show modern day astronauts talking about this difficulty, talking about the difficulty of getting beyond low Earth orbit, all these different things.
And every time Charles Duke just says, well, we did it.
Well, we did it.
Another thing Sabrell also brings up is the meteorites that, again, scientists have said they have these little micro showers of meteorites constantly on the moon.
Whether that's true or not, I don't know.
But he goes to a quote of von Braun basically saying that 50% of the time, people would be dying on these missions just from being hit from these meteorite showers.
Charles Duke says, like, just not real.
We didn't have them.
And one of the big arguments, aside from, hey, we had 400,000 people working on this thing, very compartmentalized.
I mean, look how many people were working on the Manhattan Project and didn't know what they were doing.
But he talks about the moon rocks.
Now, of course, Bart Sobrell brings up the hoaxed moon rock to, I believe it is the president of the Netherlands.
It was reported on 20 plus years ago that it was like petrified wood.
He also talks about von Braun traveling, I believe, to Antarctica to get moon rocks and gather them.
But Duke just continually says, well, I brought back over 100 pounds of moon rocks.
I brought back the moon rocks.
We've got the moon rocks.
So it was just one of those very odd things where he seems to be extremely captured by one narrative.
And instead of addressing things that are anomalous or, you know, taking on the idea that the evidence that Bart has is fake, he just says, nope, didn't happen.
He goes, nope, we did it.
Nope, we did it.
And you're just like, huh, that is weird.
Now, before we get to this video of, which is not from the debate, okay?
I want to show everybody this.
He was on Glenn Beck recently.
Okay.
He's talking about Jesus and angels and demons and what he thinks quote-unquote extraterrestrials are.
He believes, he says God has told them, told him that they are demons and there are no other civilizations out there.
I don't know.
I'm not telling you one thing or the other.
The reason I bring that up is that I don't know how long ago it was, but Sobrell absolutely converted to Christianity.
Okay.
And he often talks about his faith now.
And during the tail end of this, I mean, we're like three and a half hours deep into this debate.
Bart Sobrell starts talking about repenting because one of the things that he was doing with these astronauts was trying to make them put their hand on a Bible and swear to God that they had gone to the moon.
Okay.
He's like, I'm going to give you the opportunity.
And that's when like Buzz Aldrin punches him in the face, if you've seen that famous video.
He starts quoting specific lines from scripture.
And Charles Duke knows all of them.
And what do I mean by that?
They keep going to Duke, and Duke is nodding in agreement.
Duke knows exactly the scripture points that he's talking about.
And this was one of the parts for me that showed me that this guy was extremely coherent.
And you can doubt his faith.
You can think that he's a deceiver.
You can believe that he is a Christian at this point.
At the very least, and I know all these guys are Masons as well.
At the very least, it showed that he was definitely a part of that culture and had read the Bible, had gone to church many times, et cetera, et cetera.
Now, the reason I bring that up is because, and we're going to play just the whole thing and then I'm going to make commentary on it.
This conversation with Duke later on talks about his faith, talks about the angels and demons.
And to me, again, it exacerbates the fact this guy's sharp.
He's smart.
He was part of a very covert and very secretive program.
And like I said, I think that he may actually believe through repetition, through those type of MK Ultra techniques, that he went to the moon.
Okay?
Period.
And again, you make the decision on what you think.
But here, he is talking about extraterrestrial life as demons and his, I wouldn't say conversion to Christianity because he certainly came up through that.
But he even admits, even up through the Apollo programs, okay, which I believe he landed on the moon.
He was in that until he was like 36 and I think 37.
By the time he's 37, the Apollo missions just started to end.
He talks about how he wasn't walking that Christian line and that later on, through his wife really taking it seriously, I believe in the 1970s, that he converted as well.
So let's play Charles Duke.
You believe her in UFO's alien life?
No, I don't believe in alien life.
I believe that God showed me a specific answer to two prayers, that they're demonic and that they're demonic beings that make an appearance and appear to be real, and they are real.
The Bible says Satan can appear as an angel of light.
So they can appear.
And so nothing human can make a 90-degree turn at 3,000 miles an hour and survive.
And so they have these, and I think the purpose is to draw you away from the real God and say, look at us, and this is where you ought to be because we are superhuman and we can do it.
So that's my feel.
People laugh at me, generally, but I'm not going to be, I don't care.
I just love you.
I love you.
Yeah.
God is, he's answered prayers, my prayers specifically.
And so I said, and I get laughed at when people say, well, that's what God told me.
So I'm going to be say that they're demonic beings and there's not any extraterrestrial, I mean, super, not superhuman, but other civilizations out there that are farther away from us.
It's a distraction from God.
So let's just stop it there, and then we're going to get into the faith part.
You know, that's a pretty popular theory now amongst those that believe in the idea of maybe the grays or the Dracos or the Archons or the shapeshifters or any of these things, right?
That believe that these entities do exist, that it's not just U.S. technology, especially amongst religious people, they've taken that sect.
Okay, so look, I understand why a lot of people would gravitate to what Charles Duke said there.
But now I want you to listen to that conversion into Christianity and how it is post-Apollo missions and at least the acknowledgement that he was not walking that Christian line because everything he said right there was extremely coherent.
Like the idea that, you know, this guy isn't sharp, that I do not buy.
I think he's extremely sharp.
Were you a God-fearing man when you went out?
I claimed to be a Christian, but it was a mental accent and not a hard accent.
And so I don't know where I would have stood at that point.
I know I wasn't walking as a Christian.
I was going to church.
We were faithful churchgoers since we got married.
But it was later on after the moon flight, I was 36 when I landed on the moon.
When Apollo was over, I was 37.
And the thought occurred to me, I'm 37 years old.
What am I going to do now with the rest of my life?
And I had no peace, and my marriage was falling apart.
And so things were pretty bad until 1975 when my wife became a believer after a faithful live weekend at our church.
And so she changed.
I watched her change sadness to joy in two months.
And it was real.
Two years later, I made that same decision.
And that began a healing in our family and a healing In our marriage and saved our marriage, Jesus did.
And so we've been walking with the Lord.
And I know NASA heart.
So that you believe her in sorry about that, folks.
There's another part of that when he's reading parts of scripture to Charles Duke that he talks about Apollo as the great deceiver.
Okay.
And even the AI will tell you the phrase Apollo the Great Deceiver is not a traditional epithet, but it can be understood through various myths where Apollo's actions appear deceptive.
This includes his manipulation to gain worshipers by kidnapping sailors, his role in the tragic deaths of his loves, and his punishment of King Midas by giving him donkey ears for disagreeing with him.
So, you know, once again, there is a lot of symbolism when it comes to Apollo and all of these lunar missions, even now with Artemis, okay, and that discussion.
So all of it is there.
And if you want to watch this four-hour debate, please do so.
But I'm just telling you now what to expect.
Anytime Charles Duke is presented with any evidence, he goes, I don't understand the point of this conversation.
What is the point of this conversation?
Well, we did it.
Well, I went to the moon.
No, but the Saturn V rocket, it never failed once.
That's another thing that's just totally crazy to think that a rocket, which if you look at the rocket technology today, it fails all the time.
Didn't fail one time.
Didn't fail one time in these missions.
Hard to believe.
So you're going to make your own decisions.
If you want to watch that four-hour conversation that is over at the Danny Jones podcast, I would say watch the video too because the evidence is presented in video format and you get to see the look on this guy's face as he's looking at the counter evidence.
And you tell me what you think.
Folks, that's going to wrap it up.
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