The Maxwell Tapes Listen Along Part 1: Robert Maxwell And Epstein
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We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in.
Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want.
We think too much and feel too little.
More than machinery, we need humanity.
We know the air is unfit to breathe, and our food is unfit to eat.
As if that's the way it's supposed to be.
We know things are bad, worse than bad.
They're crazy.
I'm a human being God damn it.
My life has value.
You have meddled with the primal forces of nature.
Don't give yourselves to brutes.
Men who despise you, enslave you, who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think, or what to feel, who drill you, tired you, treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder.
Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men.
Machine men with machine minds and machine hearts.
You're beautiful.
I love you.
Yes.
You're beautiful.
Thank you.
Showtime!
It's time to buckle up for making sense of the madness.
And who loves you and who do you love?
Hey, everybody, Jason Burmes here.
And if you've been paying attention the last several days, you'll know there's a multitude of quote-unquote new information regarding the Epstein saga.
Government Proffer Revealed00:14:47
Now, among that information is the Department of Justice releasing the audio taped interview with Ghelane Maxwell, which is now publicly available.
And out of the gates, the, I would say, quote-unquote hot takes or even mainstream takes out there were done purely out of ignorance or maybe just skimming over what other people reported or the transcripts.
Okay, first and foremost, I think that this release is a positive thing.
I would have much rather had the video recordings, and I'm hoping there are video recordings and it's not just audio, to see some of the physical ticks.
Now, overall, there is about six hours here.
I don't think that we're going to be getting through six hours today, especially because I'm going to be stopping it.
I'm going to be making comments.
I'm going to be checking out the chat and seeing what you have to say about each individual accusation or representation.
But so far, for me, the long and the short of it is there actually are a lot of good leads in here.
However, of course, Maxwell portrays herself as this naive house manager that ends up being a long-term friend with benefits and almost frames herself in this picturesque 50s Disney style wide-eyed naivety about relationships.
But then as the interview goes on and she describes some of the duties that she's done for Epstein, in particular, recruiting quote-unquote masseuses, you can tell that this woman is, in my opinion, a very carefully coached predator that has a crafted narrative,
especially now that Epstein is no longer with us, and she seems to be the only one that bore the brunt of any significant criminal prosecution.
Of course, there were the funds, et cetera.
But you have to understand, and we're going to play this from the very beginning, when Todd Blanche introduces himself, when the other lawyers introduce themselves.
I want everybody listening here.
This is a time for you to put your investigation hats on.
Because there were names that I had not really looked into that much.
You got to remember, this guy is a multi-billionaire, you know, running with other multi-billionaires.
And there is a lot here.
And for instance, one of the people that I kind of heard on the peripheral, but when Ghelane brought him up and in what regard, Ronald Eppinger was like, huh, well, interesting that that would be a relationship.
And even the concession early on of Ghelane Maxwell admitting that Epstein absolutely did do some of these crimes, but she was never privy to any of it.
Okay?
So I would say we're going to try to get through at least an hour of the six-hour testimony here.
And what caught my eye and the reason that you're seeing the thumbnail that you are with her father, Robert Maxwell, caught my ear rather, especially is in regards to the opening with Robert Maxwell, her father, and his relationship with intelligence and his history with intelligence.
And again, her playing naivety, because later on they ask her about the Mossad, and she never really gives a direct answer other than, oh, I never met with anybody knowingly that I knew was in the Mossad and kind of laughs about it.
So, thumbs it up, subscribe, share.
We're going to do it.
You know how we do it.
We do it live here.
We'll do it live.
Okay.
We'll do it live.
Fuck it.
Do it live.
I'll write it and we'll do it live.
And the thing is, we don't have to write much because these are the raw tapes in full, supposedly.
We got them all.
And for the two days, six hours, I really would have hoped it would have been a little longer and more extensive, especially with the other criminal investigations, prosecutions, lawsuits, news reports, everything.
And I'll say this, and I've said this before in other broadcasts already listening to it.
The fact that Ghelaine Maxwell is claiming with all of this stuff that not one law enforcement officer in any regards had ever interviewed her is crazy, town.
But you're going to get the decision.
Before we get there, guys, I need your support.
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Let's do it.
Let's hit it.
Good morning.
My name is Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Spencer Horn of FBI New York.
Today we are doing a proffer of Ms. Maxwell.
The date is July 24th, and the time is 10:12 a.m.
This interview is being recorded.
And my name is Todd Blanche.
I'm the Deputy Attorney General.
And before we start formally asking questions of Ms. Maxwell, I'm going to put on the record everybody that's in this room, in addition to me.
Starting with you, Diego.
Diego Pistana, Associate Deputy Attorney General.
And then you heard from Special Agent in Charge, Horn.
Mark Beard from the United States Marshal Service is here as well.
And then David?
Yes, this is David Oscar Marcus, and I'm counsel for Gillen.
My name is Leo Safian, and I'm counsel for Gillen Maxwell.
My name is Melissa Magdalene and I'm counsel for Gillen Maxwell.
Go ahead.
And I'm Gillen Maxwell.
Good morning, Ms. Maxwell.
How are you?
Good morning, Mr. Black.
Okay, so before we started recording, we met for a few minutes.
I introduced myself and we chatted, and now I told you that we were going on the record.
And before we start asking questions, I know that you've been given by your lawyer a copy of what's called a proffer agreement.
And I just want to spend two minutes making sure that you understand what governs our conversation today.
The most important part of this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation agreement, meaning that by you meeting with us today, we're really just meeting.
I'm not promising to do anything.
I'm not promising to ask Judge Nathan or any of the judges that's been assigned to your case to do anything.
We're just talking.
And so that's the most important part of this agreement.
However, almost as important is the fact that what this agreement does for you is it gives you protection.
So what it means is that the government cannot use what you say today against you, with some exceptions, which we'll talk about in a minute.
But whatever you talk about today, you have what's called immunity.
So that means that the words that you say today, we cannot use against you in a case in chief if we were ever to bring one.
Okay?
Thank you.
There's exceptions to that.
The most meaningful one of which is that if you say something today that's not true, that's a lie, we can bring a prosecution against you for what's called false statements.
So I'm a federal officer.
I have several officers here.
The FBI is here.
And if you lie to someone that's like me or like Special Agent Horn, it's a crime.
So you have to be truthful.
The other exception to this that doesn't necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever was a retrial in your case or if there ever was a criminal case, a future criminal case against you, and your lawyer or you said something different or took a position that's different than what you say today, we can then cross-examine you or witness based upon what you say today.
So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I can't use what you say against you in our case in chief.
However, if you were to testify or if your lawyer called a witness to testify and they said something that is totally different than what you say today, we could then cross-examine you or the witness and say, hey, do you remember when we met with Miss Wax, when we met with Miss Maxwell back in July of 2025?
She told us and then say what she said.
Okay?
I understand.
Okay.
So let's just stop it right there.
So, number one, at least the way it's framed, they're not cutting a deal here.
Okay?
Now, I would remind people, whether or not a deal was cut, she certainly was moved into a cushier prison facility after this.
Okay?
And she certainly does talk about the prison system.
She even claims that she was put in the quote-unquote shoe and some of her memory is gone because of it.
But again, you're going to decide.
Other than that, I know you didn't have a lot of time this morning to meet with Mr. Marcus, but did you have a chance to go over this briefly with him?
I did.
Okay.
All right.
So I've already signed it, as has Special Agent Horn.
And Mr. Marcus signed it as well.
So you got a time.
Please sign it right where it says clients.
Yep.
And I will provide a copy of this to your lawyer so you guys have it.
Okay.
Thank you.
So Ms. Maxwell, about a week and a half ago or two weeks ago, you see the light button down there on the zoning.
Yep, there you see.
Okay, we're just confirming that it works and it does.
Miss Maxwell, I guess about a week and a half or two weeks ago, Mr. Marcus reached out to me and said that you wanted to speak with somebody from the government about not only your case, but about everything that's been in the media and that's been publicized about Mr. Epstein in your case.
That is true, and I did speak to him and I did ask him if, or did telephone that I was very keen to talk to anyone because no one from the government at any time ever knew the since the inception of the case, so dating back to the early 2000s, has ever spoken to me and indeed I believe ever reached out to me at any time to even speak to me.
And that includes up to when I was indicted and prosecuted.
I believe that, or I understand, I should say rather, that my attorneys at the time did tell the government that I wanted to speak to them because I was very keen to meet with anyone so that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
I've never had any problem just to speak to anybody, and I offered myself and I kept asking if they would make a case that I could talk to them.
And for whatever reason, the grant was not happening.
So let's just stop it right there.
If you look at the Palm Beach non-prosecution agreement, and by look at, I mean not able to look at.
And the idea that not only Ghelaine Maxwell, but other quote-unquote co-conspirators of Jeffrey Epstein in that case, allegedly had a deal where they could never be prosecuted for these crimes.
In fact, that's where the appeal which has been shut down.
Now, the appeal to the Supreme Court is about.
You're telling me that nobody in Palm Beach County or law enforcement or anywhere within the government.
I mean, I would assume that law enforcement is part of the government.
Ever talk to you?
I mean, that just opens so many more Pandora's boxes into what these investigations were in the first place, right?
So I have to throw that in there and let's continue with Maxwell.
Okay.
I have questions that I want to ask you, but I'm not, if there's a path that, a question that I'm not asking that you think should be asked, I invite you to volunteer.
Same thing goes to your lawyers.
Met Mr. Epstein in 199100:15:55
Just to start a little bit, very briefly, can you talk about when you first met Mr. Epstein?
I know that goes back a while.
And just very generally talk about your relationship with Mr. Epstein from the time you met him all the way up until his death.
I met Mr. Epstein in 1991.
I'd never heard of him or met him before and no one in my family had ever either.
My father never knew him, and I'll explain why that was the case.
Where did you meet him?
I had a girlfriend who I was moved to America briefly.
I'd moved to America in 1990.
Well, moved, was a good word.
I'd come to visit America in 1990.
I had been running my own company up until that time, which was a company called Maxwell's Corporate Gifts.
And I had also been working for my father at the time.
I've had multiple jobs with him.
I was in 1990, I was working with a new company of his, a new newspaper that he was launching called The European.
And I was in charge of launching a magazine to go with the European.
And I was traveling at that time from England to America because my father was looking to bought, well, he'd also bought Macmillan, the publishing house, and he had purchased the New York Daily News.
And it's true to say that my father always wanted me to come back, full-time and work for him, but that's a much longer story.
I don't think we need to go into at this time.
But I was always working with him.
There was no escaping, as it were, to work for him.
So in 1990, I had come over to New York to help look at some of that.
He was having some advertising issues with the New York Daily News.
And in fact, I met, I may have met Donald Trump at that time because my father was friendly with him and liked him very much.
And I think it should be said that he also very much liked Ivana because she was also from Czechoslovakia where my dad was from.
So I just want to stop it right here for a moment.
And this is why, again, Robert Maxwell is in the thumbnail because really that's where this story opens up.
She's talking about a relationship with her dad, who is a media mogul who's a multi-level spy, who dies under suspicious circumstances.
Okay?
And even at one point, she talks about how she is on a kidnap or kill list during this time period.
All right.
This is not a normal family, obviously.
She also mentions Trump's wife.
Now, I wish that the line of questioning that was then pursued was what was your relationship with Ivana?
Because it seems to me right here that she's saying that her relationship with Donald Trump predates Epstein.
And, you know, she talks about mayhave.
She was pretty sure of it before she framed it in that context.
And these are the type of things that I think are important so we get a real timeline.
Again, not saying she's being honest throughout this.
I think that this is a carefully crafted narrative.
But a lot of the baseline stuff that can be proven that isn't criminal, I mean, is certainly probably more than accurate and combed over by her lawyers.
So I don't remember if I did meet him or not in 1990 with my dad, but I knew that that's how I knew about Mr. Trump.
And this was before you met him?
This was before I met Mr. Stephen.
Yes.
So I was already going backwards and forwards in America and then in April of 1991, I came to New York.
I can't remember for what reason, what business reason, but there was a business reason, something to do with my dad at that time.
And a girlfriend of mine, who, an American, told me, I broken up with my mom.
I've been engaged, getting with a very long-term boyfriend and we've broken up.
And she said, well, I've got, you know, as your girlfriends do, I've got a guy for you to meet.
And I was like, who is it?
And she goes, he's been dating my sister, and you'll love him.
He's looking for a wife.
I'm edging towards 30.
I don't need to tell you guys.
That's a very important moment for a girl to think about important things.
I sure won't be happy to meet him.
And so sometime in 1991, we're in 1991, I met him at his offices in Homeston.
And I think the most memorable thing I can think about that is he was wearing a tie, which he didn't often.
He had a giant smoky ketchup steam on it.
So I was like, wow, okay.
And that was how he met him.
Was your meeting at his office for you to meet him just personally?
Or were you there for work-related reasons?
I knew nothing about him.
He just invited me to come and have tea at him.
And I was like, gee, that's English.
Okay.
But what was unusual was in his offices.
So I went to his offices and we met.
And I found him very engaging and that was that.
So I just, you know, I want to just kind of go over.
Again, this is why I wish there was a videotape there because her voice seems to tremble a lot when talking about this quote-unquote first encounter with Epstein, then reflecting on how she thought he was kind of sloppy, etc.
And even in that moment, doing so in kind of a fond manner, I think that that's important to note.
You know, instead of just this revile or revolt or remorse, you know, you can tell that there's still something there.
Okay, so that's how you meet him.
So, and again, I don't want to spend a lot of time, you know, on this particular issue, but what happened with your relationship over the years from the time you meet him in 1991 up until the time he passed away?
Just give the highlights.
Okay, guys.
So I was looking for real estate for my dad to buy some, and Epstein told me that he was also looking to move from his apartment.
And would I help him?
And I said, sure, I'm looking already so I could look for him.
So that's how it started.
And then in 1991, my father passed away.
And I returned to New York after that, originally to come back and help with the family businesses, which was in the middle of meeting.
And then the debacle of my father's passing hit the family and we lost all our businesses.
And my family thought that it would be best if I stayed in America because of the intensity of the press and the drama surrounding my father's death in England.
So I stayed and Epstein said, well, you can keep helping me, you know, help me find a house and you can decorate the house.
And it gave me something to do.
Were you in a romantic relationship with him at this point, or just friends?
Just friends.
And while we're just with respect to your father, there have been multiple questions about whether he worked for any intelligence agency.
Do you have any knowledge about that?
So let me just stop it right here.
Because this is where we get into our first little tidbit and taste of intel in regards to her father and then kind of talking about the family businesses.
Remember, much of it media and a lot of it falling apart because the dad was, you know, a criminal.
I mean, that's what you are when you're that level of quote-unquote spy slash mogul.
I want to let everybody know that.
Think about Michael Pompeo.
We lied, we cheated, we stole, we had entire courses on it.
That's not just the Central Intelligence Agency.
That's the whole world.
That's the whole shebango.
Now, there's never a denial here.
And by all accounts, remember, Ghelaine Maxwell is very much, very much her father's protege and was on the quote-unquote Lady Ghelane, the boat, named after his daughter during the death of her father, which I wish Blanche had delved into more,
especially after hearing Gheline Maxwell talk about the kill capture list or whatever that she's on.
So let's continue.
I think, well, certainly my father had a background in intelligence journey because he was, I believe he did in the Second World War.
He was a British intelligence officer.
I think that my sort of belief is that once you've been an intelligence officer, you're kind of always, it doesn't mean that you're formally employed.
So I don't think my dad in any formal sense was, you know, employed by any agency.
But when you are a very significant businessman and politician, as my father was, you meet with people all the time and you, I guess, trade business or ideas.
You trade business or ideas.
Now later, you know, she'll talk about the special relationship with her family in Israel as well.
Okay, so there's never a denial of her father in this intelligence world.
There's only really a kind of a shy endorsement.
Okay, we're going to continue here.
I think if that would fall under that definition, that's how I would think of it.
Now, he certainly, I have no formal knowledge of anything specifically that he did in that thing, but if you're asking me if I thought that he did help people, the answer would be yes, I do.
Did your father and Mr. Epstein have a business relationship over the years?
I know we're maybe jumping around a little bit.
As far as you know, they never even met.
No, I never met.
You know they never met.
I know they never met.
Well, how do you know they never met?
Just categorically know they never met.
Well, because after in 1991, before my father died, he asked me if I'd met anybody interesting or whatever, you know, because I was still trying not to be sucked back into the family business.
And I told him that I had met Mr. Epstein, and the reason why I shared that I'd met Mr. Epstein because I believed at that time that Epstein worked for Best Earns, and Best Earns was one of our banks.
And I knew that my father was friendly with both Jimmy Kane and with Ace Greenberg.
So my dad was actually in New York, I think.
I don't think I had this conversation on the phone, but honestly, we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not sure.
But if I maybe I told him this verbatim, because I have a, I know that what my dad did, whether I saw it or whether he did it and told me later, that I don't remember.
But he called both Jimmy Kane and Ace Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and was he even allowed to, because, God.
So they never met.
He didn't even know.
They knew some of the same people, it sounds like, or certainly the Bear Stearns connection was something that you knew that they had.
No, well, he never had a connection with Epstein.
He had a connection with the bank.
I mean, Epstein, I'd never heard of him or knew of him before.
And I certainly, if my dad had known him, right, when I said this is who he was, he didn't know who he was.
So he rang Ace and he rang Jimmy to ask if it was okay that I even knew him.
And I just want to explain briefly why my father would even do such a thing.
So again, this is where I would want to see the video of these reactions.
Because it seems like, you know, we're not even, you know.
20 minutes into this, and she's having a very visceral emotional reaction to apparently, her father talking to Ace Greenberg and this other gentleman about Epstein in particular and her official denial that they were even aware of each other prior to her meeting Epstein and certainly, I guess,
prior to any kind of a sexual relationship that she was having with Epstein.
And so after that happened, well there were other related, I'm not going to bore you.
Weird Epstein Sexual Stuff00:14:52
I don't want to bore you.
So once again, she says here she's on a kidnap and murder list.
And it seems to be in some kind of regards to her dad and his business.
She's just revealed intelligence.
The fact that so many of these things were kind of glossed over.
And, you know, again, you can't trust the reporting by the mainstream media on what these were.
You can't trust the cliff notes.
And if your favorite network or your favorite podcaster isn't talking about it, you're not going to hear about it.
Think about that.
That should have been headlines everywhere.
That shortly after Glene Maxwell describes her relationship with her father and his relationship with intelligence, she claims that she was put on a kidnap and kill list.
But she didn't want to bore you.
So we're going to continue.
Horrible things in that vein, but if you want the details, of course, by Kim.
But after that happened, my father wanted to put a lot of protection on me, obviously.
And I declined on the grounds that that would be a very life-restricting event.
You're all in law enforcement.
I know you understand this.
And so he had told me that I would be taking my life in my own hands and whatever.
And so I think after that event and several others where I had store clothes and all that thing that one has, he was always quite protective of me.
And so if I met somebody, he would try and verify that they weren't going to do anything hideous.
And so in case you thought it was weird that he would call Jimmy an Ace, you may think it is, but from my perspective, he was just because he was concerned I was in America alone and he had an opportunity to verify who this person was.
And so I don't know if I was in the room with him.
I don't recall what it was, but I know that at some point my father told me, he's fine.
You can see him.
Yeah.
He's safe.
Okay.
Well, okay.
So we might.
So ultra bizarre, she claims they didn't know each other and that her father vetted Epstein and declared him safe.
Now later on, she'll also make the claim that Epstein wasn't inherently one way and that over time he kind of became morphed into this monster, etc.
Come back and touch a little bit more on that at some point, but I went down a rabbit hole for a moment.
That's right.
I just wanted to bother.
No, that's helpful.
Thank you.
So, okay, so you're now in the 90s and you're friends with Mr. Epstein, decorating the house or the apartment.
What happened with your relationship again?
I know we're talking about a 35-year time period or whatever, but to the extent you can kind of, at a very high level, talk about it.
Listen, I think just full disclosure is the best way to go at this point.
So in 1992, I slept with him one time.
And I was like, oh, that's it.
We're going to be dating.
Because that's how I thought.
And I kind of thought of myself in that moment, like, because I thought if you slept with someone, look you have been dating them.
That's the world I came from.
But that really was, well, that's how I thought.
And I just want to make this very clear.
You know, she's painting herself as, well, I thought if I was sleeping with somebody, I was dating them.
But if you look at even some of the reporting recently, apparently she was also sleeping with Prince Andrew from time to time, never dating him.
There have been allegations, and I know this won't fit some people's narratives, what they want to believe regarding Bill Clinton, but apparently she had a sexual relationship, according to some of the reporting.
I'm not saying it with Bill Clinton as well.
So she's painting herself as extremely naive throughout all of this.
But we didn't sleep together again for, I don't know, really a significant period of time.
Like years or?
Um, I don't know if it was a year.
I don't feel that feels long, but maybe nine months.
I mean, a long time.
I just want to go back.
So I had found a house for him to rent in New York.
Because he had asked me, I'd been looking for my father and I found one, which was a former Iranian embassy, I think it was.
I think it belonged to the Iranians.
Or the Iraqis, someone.
Okay.
And I didn't know that he had any money, really, and it was like, I want to say it was $12,000 a month, which to me seemed like fortune.
And I said to myself, I found this house, but I don't think he can afford it.
And it's kind of ridiculous.
Of course, that'd be affordable.
He rented it.
And that house came with, it was a State Department house because it was, I think that was under secretation or whatever it was.
And I put it back together, but there were set of rules you couldn't paint because it had to go back and gave it back to the country.
So he had this house and I had moved into a 10-foot by 10-foot apartment because all of our stuff had been either lost or frozen or whatever.
So he became in this moment of my life really because I was like, everything was, it felt very similar to this moment, if that makes sense.
Now, I realize that she's talking really low, but you already hear the feedback in the background and all that other stuff.
But think about what she's saying here.
Now, it's well known that Maxwell, after his death, a lot of his financial crimes were out there.
And that supposedly, you know, he's basically at the end of it, didn't really have any money.
But you look at the prominence of his children today in the World Economic Forum, in the business world, what Maxwell continued to do after his death.
She's telling you that she was in a 10 by 10 apartment.
Obviously, that's not real.
What her, you know, mind is 10 by 10.
And she says she claims she had no access to any assets whatsoever.
And that's kind of why she ends up working for Epstein, which she'll start off saying was $25,000 in the beginning, but then it ends up being a quarter of a million dollars.
And remember, like the sexual relationship is already kind of weird.
She says they slept together once and then not for another nine months.
Again, take all this for what you will.
Anyway, so, but I had no key to his house.
I had no free access to his house.
And in the entire time that he lived there, which was, I believe, until the beginning of 1996, I never slept a single night in that house with him.
Ever.
Never.
But you, oh, so you said a minute ago that you have slept with him on one occasion, and at the time you remember thinking, you know, that this meant you were in a relationship, but then it didn't, you really were not in that type of relationship.
Did that change between 91 and 92 or whatever and years forward?
So I did travel with him.
Okay.
So I would go to his houses in Palm Beach.
He only had that house actually in Windows.
No, that's not true.
He had the house in Palm Beach and he had a house in Ohio.
In where?
Ohio.
Okay.
And he had the house in Ohio because of his business relationship with Mr. Wexner.
And he had a, and I had to go and decorate and put that house together.
When we traveled together, we stayed in the same bed, but not in a room.
But I didn't.
Go ahead.
It's okay.
Talk.
It's okay.
Talk.
So now we're going to get into some weird Epstein sexual stuff and a weird Epstein heart condition.
And, you know, I don't want to get too vulgar here.
But if you look at the Palm Beach case and the eyewitness, in other words, the victims and what they described, you know, allegedly, you know, Epstein was never fully erect.
He had this odd egg-shaped penis, whatever.
I know, I mean, I'm waiting for the pop punk group egg-shaped penis.
Like, aren't we all clamoring for some of that?
Something with like a blink 182 feel to it.
But I'm just going to let her speak because he claims that he can't have intercourse or he's going to have some kind of a heart attack.
All, I mean, the whole thing is beyond bizarre.
So you stayed, so when you would travel with him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or even just traveling, if it was just traveling with him, you would stay in the same bed, so sleep in the same bed with him.
Yeah.
Epstein told me that he had a plaque tissue.
A what?
Heart condition.
Heart condition.
Okay.
Which meant that he didn't have intercourse a lot.
Which suited me fine because I actually do have a medical profession, which proves me having a lot of intercourse.
So what was your understanding of his heart condition and why that prevented him from having intercourse regularly?
I don't know.
I mean, he liked other forms of sexual acting better.
Well, let's come back.
We're going to obviously spend some time, a lot of time on the actual conduct he was accused of.
So we'll come back to that.
So pick up where you were talking about you traveling around with him.
He rented the New York former Iranian until around 96.
That time, I believe you said that he was basically your life.
Like, you're with him pretty regularly?
Well, I, you know.
Okay.
So I never was with him regularly.
That is one of those misnomers.
I mean, at the beginning, I did see more of him, but I worked in his office.
So I would go to the office and I would see him.
And I would count in my head when I would see him, I would count that be a day that I would see him.
But I didn't, I never ever stayed with him again.
I believe, certainly until 93 or 94, what I didn't know was that I think he was still with his actual girlfriend, who was Eva Anderson then, and became Eva Dubin.
They had been together, my understanding, I think about 10 years.
I'm not sure, but that's what I think, 10 years.
So let me just talk about that, because Dubin is in the documents, and so is Glenn Dubin, who she marries, and Epstein maintains this relationship.
And remember, there are many of these younger women that are alleged to be in that non-prosecution deal that we just had up there a moment ago.
Leslie Groff, Sarah Kalin, Adriana Ross, Nadia Marsenkova.
Okay, those people as well.
You know, I think there are bits of truth in this, but at the same time, I mean, the idea that she's just totally naive, I mean, she really is playing Miss Naive to the daughter of a billionaire news mogul multi-intelligence agent.
And I had understood from my girlfriend initially that they weren't together and Epstein himself had told me that they were not together, but I don't think that was true.
In fact, I know it's not true.
So they were still together up until I think 94 when at some point in that period when Eva met Glenn Dubin and they got married, I think in 94, I don't remember when they got married.
But her, she was his best friend and his everything.
He told me that he always wished that he had married her and had a child with her.
And I know that she was family for him for his whole life.
And I think even, I'm not sure this is true, but you guys will know if this is true or not, when he came from back from Paris and you arrested him, I don't know if Eva was on the plane.
Emails Along the Border00:09:41
Now, I think that either I read it in the discovery that I received, or I saw it somewhere.
But even if she wasn't on the plane, there must have been some email communication where she was in Paris at the same time and going to fly back.
One or the other.
I don't know which one is the correct version of that.
So they were still obviously very close and remained throughout the entire fact.
He saw her love.
And so I also know now, which I didn't know at the time, was that he saw lots of other women.
And I know that now because I can see it from the flight logs and I know it now because I can see from the emails.
So you know from the case that what happened?
Yes, I didn't know.
I didn't know that along.
Contemporaneously, I absolutely did not know.
So, okay, so just, and we're going to spend time on everything you're talking about, but just to kind of close out big picture your relationship.
So we're now in the late 90s.
Continue on with, again, saying high-level to the extent you can about your relationship with him.
So after, so my responsibilities increased with each acquisition that he had and each new project.
So I believe the first thing that he purchased after was the ranch in New Mexico.
And so what he had tasked me with up until that, and I think that was purchased in 94, if I remember.
So he had tasked me, one of the things that we did was visit, in my mind I say every state, but it wouldn't have been every state, but many states, to go look at real estate and property.
And so I know we went to Montana, I know we went to Utah, and it was, to go look at real estate, it was fun, to be honest.
And then I arranged for us to go to New Mexico, and he just loved New Mexico.
And then I don't remember how the ranch happened, I don't remember that, now it's lost.
And then he ended up buying the ranch, and I think, if I'm right, it came from Mother Kings, who may have been the governor, bought the ranch.
And then I had to deal with that.
And dealing with that was extensive.
I mean, the way that I thought of myself, or the way that I think is the best way to explain how I view my role, was as a general manager.
Because each property to me was like a hotel.
So the ranch was very challenging because not only that, but it had BLM land.
So to maintain your BLM, you had to have cattle.
And I love animals.
And so the first thing, horses.
So I wanted it.
If you're going to have a ranch, I like authenticity.
So I don't think you should have a ranch.
if you're not going to have the things that make it special.
So were you, were you...
She loves authenticity.
Does this look like a normal ranch to anybody?
You know, at least we're getting the timeline on these properties.
And, you know, obviously she glossed over the Ohio home and Leslie Wexner, but it was certainly there.
So, I mean, you look at this on a mountain in the middle of nowhere.
It's just like, and this is allegedly the quote-unquote baby-making ranch of Epstein.
But she didn't know.
She didn't even know that he had all these girlfriends.
Girlfriends.
She just learned from the emails.
Paid by him along the way.
So I became salaried at some point.
My memory is that I got paid $25,000 a year to begin with.
That's my memory.
And maybe more.
And then with each, as it became more obvious, because I kept thinking I was going to have a home being.
And but it.
Did you, and financially, you were not relying on him, the $25,000 or whatever amount you were paid.
Were you relying on that money to live and his generosity to live?
or did you have your own money?
So, that's a...
And again, I want to just make sure we're talking about that.
Keeping it between the late 90s, maybe I guess into a little of the 2000s.
I just want to hit something on the head right now.
There's a tremendous amount of recording that said that I had a trust fund.
Thank you.
A trust fund.
I have never had a trust fund at any time.
So how did you live?
Did you live with $25,000 is not enough to live on?
No.
So I had during this period of time the secret, the serious Ford Squad had come to see me in relation to my father's passing and to establish whether I had been involved in any way with his business or with any shenanigans.
I think I've told the story many times, so I don't know if it's now somewhat hypocritical, but I'll tell you what it went into.
Told the story many times of, you know, I mean, I think she's talking about the British Secret Service talking about shenanigans or being involved with her father.
I don't know that I've heard this story.
You know, and again, the claim is, I mean, this woman should be totally broke and destitute.
She doesn't seem to have any skills.
She's a house manager for Epstein, who in even the late 90s, $25,000.
You know what?
$25,000 is going to get you in New York City?
Nada.
Not a maxima.
I received a letter from them that said, I can't care about my business.
And my memory may be hypocritical.
There's a PS that said I used no rights custom.
I had nothing.
There was no, I was never involved in any of his business, whatever, so I was free.
So, but you're, you know, obviously your father and your family had a lot of businesses.
Is it because the money, whatever money or whatever equity was in the businesses, just stayed with your other family members?
No, there was no money.
So my father was never attached to money.
He was born a peasant, a real one, dirt floor, no shoes, no clothes, some clevers, but not, you know, sorry, I don't mean to say Nucleave is basically a caveman.
I mean, she's gonna walk it back a little bit and be like, oh yeah, except for the boat and the plane.
Didn't care about money.
What?
What it seems like your dad died because he knew too much about moving money, amongst other things.
Or maybe he screwed the wrong person over.
Maybe he was going to rat out the wrong person.
Guests will never know, Maxwell.
Nothing.
And he never was never into that.
I mean, there were things that he had his extravagances.
He loved his boat and his clue.
So obviously you need money for that, but there was no nothing else.
And there was not a single penny that came to any of us at any time ever.
Okay, so.
So no money.
I'm going to use that as an actual segue.
I'm not vying for any kind of jet.
Just want to let everybody know.
I'm not buying a jet, anybody.
I do want to thank the 312 people.
I mean, it'd be great to get to 500 supporters that have invested over the last several years, probably closer to like half a decade now via Buy Me a Coffee after I was kicked off.
It'd be about four years ago from GoFundMe.
So thank you, Jama, Chris, Spence's Spa Cast.
Is that right?
Oh, Sponcast Productions.
Is that you, Nick?
If that's you, Nick, thank you so much.
Really do appreciate you, my friend.
Someone, Mike, amongst others.
Patsy, go down the line.
Cheryl, thank you so much.
No voter ID.
Again, couldn't do it without you.
We do need money.
We're only attached to it in the sense that we have to pay the rent and keep the lights on.
And we just did the school shopping, by the way.
First day of high school for my youngest niece yesterday.
Big day.
Big day.
Also was her first volleyball game with the high school team.
Went to that.
We got to keep it rolling.
Okay.
I want to thank all you guys for helping me keep it rolling.
We got about, we got a little over 10 plus minutes of this audio before we're going to cut it off from our first listen along.
But don't worry, we're going to listen to all of it.
We're going to listen to all of it.
This is just the beginning.
This is that Robert Maxwell heavy part.
Dinner with Epstein00:07:34
So when you're talking about your life with Mr. Epstein in the 90s, you're not, you're very different financially.
You're very different financially positioned than he is.
Meaning he's giving you money.
He's paying for your, when you fly, he, I assume, stays for your flights.
Yes.
Okay.
Okay, so I interrupted you when you were saying how you were functioning as general manager, you helped with the New Mexico ranch.
So did your role with him continue like that for many years or for how long?
So I continued in 2000.
Well, by 1999, our relationship had founded.
Why?
Well, two reasons.
We were never sleeping together again.
So we stopped having sexual relations in 1999.
Not full sex.
So, just to be clear.
Didn't mean that we didn't still share a bedroom sometimes or whatever.
Now, once again, with a lot of these allegations, they're post-99.
Think about that case in Palm Beef.
So now she's saying that basically she has some kind of weird non-sexual relationship.
She'll get to friends with benefits, but basically no intercourse with the guy.
And then doesn't consider herself his girlfriend, yet she's traveling all around with him.
All extremely bizarre.
He had another girlfriend over other girlfriends.
I definitely knew that it was over after 9-11, actually, because we were both in New York.
And, I don't know, were you in New York or 9-11?
I mean, 9-11s, and it was a scary time if you were in New York.
You didn't know.
I didn't know.
Nobody knew what was going on.
And he was in 71st Street and I was in 65th Street, my house.
And he wouldn't see me at all.
His mum, who I was very close to, was in the hospital at Lenox Hill.
She started to look after her.
And then I knew, as anyone did at that time, if you're not going to be there for someone in 9-11, you're never going to be there.
So for me, that was the lying sound.
And he had another English girlfriend, actually, from 2000.
Are you, though, still on his, are you still being paid by him at this point?
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
So she's on a payroll and she feels scorned after 9-11 for Epstein not being there for her.
That's her claim.
Put it out there.
So go ahead.
So what, at that point when you say you realize kind of.
Well, I mean, I'm talking about the.
I had had.
There was a.
I had wanted to get married and have children.
And Epstein had encouraged me to believe that that would.
I don't know about them.
Certainly by the mid-late 90s, I knew the marriage part was never going to happen.
I had believed that maybe in 96, 97, 98, maybe, but then I realized it wasn't that.
But I did think that we might have a child, which is what I had really wanted.
And I really wanted to.
Okay, so what happens between 2001 and then 2019 with your relationship with him?
So in order to 2001.
So we stopped having physicality.
I mean, that doesn't mean we weren't friends.
I certainly did stay sometimes in his room.
I mean, friends with benefits, if you will.
Just not sex.
Sorry, just.
And I started dating, of course.
And I met someone that I fell very much in love with in 2003.
His name was Ted Waite.
Ted Waite, you may know as the founder of Gateway, the computers.
And we had an amazing relationship that ended in, went on until 2010, I think, and I was with Ted.
So now again, she's claiming this seven-year relationship, which I don't doubt there was a relationship with this guy, but I would love to get his take on exactly what she was doing and how much she was away, especially because of that overlap in time via Palm Beach, the non-prosecution agreement.
Remember, Glene Maxwell has basically stated this is the first time she's talking to anybody from the Justice Department via any of these cases.
It's insane.
From that time.
Did you meet him through Mr. Epstein?
No.
Well, indirectly, I suppose you could say so.
No, they'd never met.
I was at a dinner where I met Ted, but it wasn't.
I was with President Tinson.
President Tinson was my friend, not Epstein's friend.
And Epstein had flown here.
And there was a dinner, and Ted came to the dinner.
So you might not have heard that because it was so low.
She says President Clinton was my friend.
He wasn't Epstein's friend.
And it was some kind of a dinner right there.
Okay.
Think about that.
I guess indirectly through Mr. Epstein because it was his plane, but I'd have been there anyway without him.
I had a plan.
Was Epstein on the plane when you guys flew?
On that trip?
Yes.
Well, yes.
Yes.
So when you say the dinner was low, was where?
Holman.
Okay.
And so that you had flown over with.
So who was on the plane for that trip?
I don't mean everybody.
When you said, so Mr. Epstein was on the plane?
Yes.
You were on the plane?
Yes.
Who else?
That you can remember.
I'm not, you know, you only know what you remember.
Is President Clinton on the plane?
Clinton.
He would have had his guy, Doug Vance.
Maybe Jason Cooper, maybe I think it's who.
Oh.
And you, and so why, so how do you meet why do you say that's when you met him and that you met him through Clinton?
Well, it was a I don't think Ted would have been there had it not been a it was a President Clinton dinner and Ted came to meet with President Clinton not to be with Mr. Epstein.
A Break in the Narrative00:08:11
Does that make sense?
Yes.
That's why I say that.
Okay, so you're you're so in the time that you're dating that you're with him to 2009 are you still working for Mr. Epstein during that time?
So here's.
So it'd be true to say that Jeffrey tried very hard, Mr. Epstein tried very hard to keep me to working for him because, I mean, this is a complex opera.
I'm not talking about anything unfortunate, just the sheer size of the projects.
I'm talking the construction projects, the houses, staff.
It's a.
It's a really significant job and I ran all the properties, the staff in the property, the management of the properties, that and all the construction and we're talking tens of millions of dollars that I invested in.
I can't remember what the budget was for the construction on any given year.
It's gone, but it it was.
These are very significant projects and so that was what I did and I managed the budgets.
Well not, I didn't manage the budgets, I oversaw the budget.
So I would just make sure that if you said you bought an alt, an air conditioning equipment, I saw an air conditioning plant and I could call the island manager did you receive a carrier?
Whatever you know, she's just a simple manager.
You know, just like you know, people are just simple farmers.
You remember that.
Remember that old school.
Probably a lot of people won't.
Maybe we'll do it.
Live here.
I'm a simple caveman here.
I mean, here it is right here.
I'm just a caveman.
Your world frightens and confuses me.
And she just a land manager.
God, I miss Phil Hartman.
Man, I mean, there's a guy gone way, way, way too fast.
We've got a few more minutes, about five more minutes before we're going to take a break.
And we're going to end up, we're going to do them all.
So again, thumbs it up.
Subscribe, share.
Deana Ray, thank you so much.
Really do appreciate your support.
Remember the buy me a coffee's there.
Also, watch all the documentary films as well.
That's where we take things like this and we cut them up.
And there's like little snippets and pieces and there's more of a rhythm.
This, of course, is more of a let's get together, let's hear this, let's put on our thinking caps and let's cross-reference with that raw material.
What do you think is important from this?
Did Mr. Epstein purchase the island?
I wanted to say 96 or 97, something like that.
Okay, so we're going to come back and spend more time on the money with respect to Mr. Epstein and his wealth, but just so we can finish this.
So in 2009, you end your relationship with Ted?
2009, 2010.
I can't remember if it was 10, okay, I don't remember.
So in that time period, what happens next as far as your relationship with Mr. Epstein?
I don't have one with him.
you don't have one of them like you don't see him or it's just a different relationship i didn't see or maybe sort of once or twice or maybe even three times I certainly went to his house once, for sure.
Maybe twice.
But I was not seeing him.
The only time that I was in touch with him was when the things happened, like things in the press that affected me, or when the CVRA case was filed and there was all that rubbish that went out.
Because I needed information.
Because I didn't know anything about what was happening and I needed his help.
A, to understand.
I maybe sound like rephrase that.
I don't mean his help.
I meant to have answers so that I had an ability to defend myself.
That's what I'm talking about.
I'm not doing anything.
When does that relationship change?
So you're working, you talked about when the physical relationship stopped, and then you're still working for him or with him, managing his properties and serving as a general manager.
You then start your own relationship with another individual with Ted from 2003 till 2009 or 10.
At what point in that whole period is there like more of a break where you're no longer acting as his general manager?
I wanted to have a full break when I started dating Ted and he was clever.
I suppose it would be true to say that I sort of viewed Mr. Epstein at that point as sort of family, if you will, like someone I could rely on.
And I should have had more confidence in myself.
I can see that now, but at the time, given everything that had happened in my life, I thought that it was, and I saw how he was with other people like Eva, who seemed to be very comfortable, saying that I thought this would be, and he always said I was like family, so he worked hard to maintain a relationship with me.
He was generous with me.
So there was no relationship, but boy, was he crafty and I was naive and he was generous with me.
Again, I think you got to take all of this with a grain of salt.
Right?
You know, apparently, you know, I would love this to hear from her quote-unquote boyfriend at the time, yet there was no clear break in what his viewpoint of their relationship might be.
I don't know if you're going to get answers.
I don't know if these are the answers that people were looking for, but again, you know, you want to hear all angles.
He let me use the pain for six, which was very generous.
He would check in with my mum to things that were meaningful to me in that time.
And then it may still not have worked, but that his mother, Paula, had been in a very serious car crash.
And she had become sort of like a surrogate mother for me, sort of because my mum wasn't there.
I could look after her the way that I would have the way that I would have liked to look after my own mum.
So I became very close to his mother.
And she had been in a car crash.
And in 2004, I believe it may have been five.
I don't recall exactly.
She took a her health took a serious decline.
And Epstein called me and asked me if I could look after her.
By looking after her, that meant organizing her doctors, making sure she had new clothes, making sure her house was clean.
Where was she?
She lived in a retirement establishment outside of Palm Beach, outside of it's West Palm.
I was going to say something like the Golden Girls, but it's not called that.
I just don't remember what it's called.
But it was an old age.
It was a retirement home, if you will.
I don't know.
We've been going for maybe about an hour now.
Is this a good time?
Yeah, yeah.
So we'll take a break.
Retirement Home Insights00:01:26
So there it is.
There is the first part.
We're going to do all six hours.
You know, I want to say it again.
I'm not holding any water for Glene Maxwell.
We're doing this so that we can go over the raw evidence.
There are some names in there that I think are really interesting that we're going to break down.
We're going to get more into quote-unquote Epstein and where he got his money from.
But really, the cursory stuff there that I think was interesting was kind of the walking around Robert Maxwell and his intelligence and even the family fortune and connections.
There are no fortunes here, folks.
There is somebody grinding with no paychecks anymore and just trying to bring you real, honest, independent media with the tools he has.
And I want to thank all of you that have supported in the past and continue to support it into the future so that I can continue doing this.
Remember, it is not about left and right.
No, no, no, no.
This one's ain't Republicans and Democrats, conservatives, or liberals.
This is always about right and wrong.
I absolutely love you guys.
I hope you check out all the documentary films, Invisible Empire and New World Order to Find, Shade the Motion Picture, Fabled Enemies, and of course, Loose Change, final cut.