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#BermasBrigade #TruthOverTreason #BreakingNews #InfoWarrior Show less
Buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
I guess we're live already.
I didn't have to tell him.
Well, welcome, everybody.
We have some developments in the Epstein case.
Yes, we're still talking about Epstein.
Senator Chuck Schumer and every Democrat on the Homeland Security Committee just invoked a little-known law called the Rule of Five.
And what it does is it forces the Department of Justice to hand over the full unredacted Epstein files.
They've given the DOJ until August 15th to comply.
And they're calling out President Trump for failing to follow through on his campaign promises to release everything.
But Trump is firing back.
He's saying his ties with Epstein ended years ago after Epstein allegedly hired away Mar-a-Lago spa workers, including Virginia Guffri.
He hasn't ruled out pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell, but he says it would be inappropriate to talk about that right now.
I think the media is being a little bit liberal with that talking point.
I don't think.
I don't think because he said it didn't be inappropriate to talk about that.
He hasn't ruled it out.
So let's just put that there.
The DOJ under Trump is now pushing to unseal grand jury transcripts, but critics say they barely include any witnesses.
And despite all the rumors, the DOJ confirms there is no Epstein client list.
So is this transparency, smoke and mirrors, politics?
Let's go straight to the panel.
Jason, I know you love talking about Epstein.
So we'll go to you first.
And I want to welcome Dave as well.
We're going to have a great conversation tonight, guys.
I'm excited to have you both here.
Jason, over to you.
What is going on?
What is the latest in Epstein?
Oh, gosh, is this the breakthrough that we've all been hoping for?
Probably not.
No, definitely not.
And, you know, it's not that I love talking about this topic.
Quite frankly, I wish that we could get full transparency so that we could get the larger picture surrounding it.
And then I wouldn't have to be talking about it all the time.
I knew as soon as you saw the backlash immediately after the Bondi revelation, there's no client list, we're done with this case, et cetera.
This was going nowhere.
And it is only through the political pressure of not only his base, but the general populace that we're even getting this far.
Now, I'm going to say this.
I don't often agree with Chuck Schumer.
In fact, I'd say 99.9999% of the time, I probably disagree with Chuck Schumer.
But just about everything he said today, right here, other than a couple misnomers there, the fact that he did say that Trump had said many times he was going to release the Epstein files.
He did not do that.
He was asked directly one time on Fox News where he said he would release the RFK, the JFK, the MLK files.
He said he released the 9-11 files.
We got crickets on that.
But then when we talked about Epstein, he said, yeah, maybe, I suppose.
And he goes, but that less than these other ones.
It was the people surrounding him that said that.
So now one of the other things that you didn't mention, David, we've had Ghelaine Maxwell not only meet with the DOJ behind closed doors and the DOJ actually make commentary on that, but yesterday she officially filed with the Supreme Court to try to get her conviction overturned.
And the Department of Justice don't even want them to see that case.
The bottom line is the public has never seen the non-prosecution agreement.
We've had to go on rumors and hearsay.
Much of those rumors in hearsay also include not only Ghelaine Maxwell, but Leslie Groff, Adriana Ross, Sarah Kellen, and Nadia Marsenkova is the last one.
And maybe there's some other people that got immunity in that deal as well.
I always tell people, if you want to start getting at the quote-unquote truth, you start getting at those accomplices and what they know, what Ghelaine Maxwell knows.
And I'll end it on one other note that you haven't mentioned.
We now have Epstein's brother asking Steve Bannon to release the supposed 15 hours of interviews with Epstein.
There's been some mainstream press back on that.
Originally, when it was reported, it was reported that supposedly he was coaching Epstein on some kind of a comeback tour.
And this came just before his New York arrest.
I'm for full transparency.
I'm not saying I would believe what Epstein had to say in those tapes, but I'm sure it would give us a lot of different leads into his business and personal transactions, sir.
Yeah, I mean, it's a good point.
More information, more transparency is good.
Do you think, and I'll throw it over to you, Dave, Benner?
Do you think, though, that this, I mean, I don't understand how really this rule of five even works.
I don't know if you know a lot about it or what information they're hoping that is going to be forced to be released.
Do you have any insight on what exactly it is that Chuck Schumer is trying to get from this Rule Five?
And will this be an effective way to get it to kind of answer some of those questions that Jason was asking for?
No, I really don't have deep insights on it, but I'm on the Schumer train for the first time in my life, I guess, here, man.
The Schumer train.
Not the way he cooks his burgers, but the way maybe he extracts evidence.
Yeah, he cooked his burgers the way a Lazardian creature would, right?
But no, I mean, obviously not.
He's acting as an opportunist here like many of the Democrats.
But hey, I don't care about which party benefits from this.
I want answers.
And, you know, I support Massey and Khanna's discharge petition to try to get to the bottom of it as well.
But with the force of law, we know that Congress and the deep state doesn't always care about the force of law, but I think that carries a little bit more.
They're hoping, and they're banking on the fact that people will forget about this story between now and the time that they reconvene.
I hope that's not the case, and the Israel lobby will obviously whip them against it.
You're seeing some of the biggest forces behind that getting opposed to it.
But the thing that's just the most absurd thing is what Mike Johnson said about his reason for not bringing this to a vote and instead, you know, essentially letting Congress go without it when he said it would be painful to the victims for this information to come out.
Just get a load of that.
No, I'm sorry, Mr. Johnson.
This would not be painful for the victims.
It would be painful for the perpetrators.
And that's what we want.
So even the victims' lawyers like Brad Edwards and Sigrid McCauley are calling for this information to be released and they represent the lawyers.
So I don't know if Schumer's thing is going to go anywhere.
I support it.
And then here's the last thing I'll end on, is that I've always thought the grand jury testimony was something of a red herring.
Otherwise, the administration wouldn't have invoked that as the deflection tactic when there was so much backlash.
I think actually you follow the money and seek the truth.
That's what Ron Wyden's talking about.
And he actually was not an opportunist on this.
He was actually talking about this when Biden was in office and he was privy to wire transfers that amounted to more than a million, a billion dollars between Epstein and names he said we would recognize.
He's trying to get the Senate to subpoena that from the Treasury Department and they're holding up their hands against that too.
That's where I think we'll seek the truth.
And you're talking about the transfers just before his death while in prison.
Those are the really important ones.
Indeed.
So, Clint, let me bring you into the conversation.
And look, you heard what Dave just said about the grand jury transcripts and being a red herring.
And again, Schumer is invoking this rule of five to try to get all relevant records in its possession from the executive branch.
But now, here's the thing, and this is why I think this is going to be a giant circular sort of conversation because the FBI on that memo after the big beautiful bill, we remember it passed, and Yahoo's on his way on an airplane.
And then this Axios leaks a memo.
This is how it's all started.
The memo that was leaked suggested that they have released everything they plan on releasing.
Everything else they won't release because of the graphic nature of it.
And the other side of that was that there's not going to be any more prosecutions.
There's nothing else there.
Trump has since said, look, if they had anything on me, if I was, quote unquote, in the files, they would have released them because other people have had it.
And they've suggested that the people in possession of this information were bad people.
Trump said this the other day with respect to talking about the Obama-Russia controversy that's been coming to light lately.
And again, another bombshell today that there's these burn bags filled with documents that were never released.
So if we're looking at the past administration literally destroying evidence, knowing that Bill Clinton has been to Epstein Island, knowing that the Democrats were in possession of this, knowing that the DOJ says we've given you everything we have, and Trump's saying, look, we've done everything we're going to do.
We're moving on.
Isn't it likely?
Backtracking on GOP Vocal Support00:09:41
And give me your take on everything too, but isn't it likely that even if Schumer demands whatever the executive DX executive is going to say, we've given you everything.
And then it's going to be this whole conversation again about transparency and what are they covering up, right?
I mean, does it seem that we're ever going to get anything new?
Or is this just going to be this kind of circular sort of process for all of perpetuity, probably till the midterms?
Well, the realist in me says that we've gotten everything we're going to get from the government.
But, you know, obviously, I hope I'm proven wrong.
I actually did a panel with Kash Patel at Freedom Fest in Vegas exactly a year ago, and we were talking about how to defeat the deep state.
And I was really impressed with the guy.
I spent a lot of time with him after the show, too, and we talked one-on-one.
And I was like, hey, this is our best shot.
I thought that we might have a chance.
So for him to get in there, I think has been probably the hardest rug pull for me because I felt as if I really, really thought that there was a chance with him.
And the way he's handled it has been unbelievably disappointing, to put it mildly.
But yeah, so to get back to all of the broader topic, Chuck Schumer getting on the Schumer train, I would encourage against that.
The Democrats, the reason that they're doing this is just because they've realized that this is damaging to the Trump administration.
And they also realize that the firewall, the stonewalling has basically been put into concrete.
So they know that they can just continue to push and push.
And every time nothing comes of it, the Trump administration takes another black eye.
So that's all this is about.
The Democrats don't want it out any more than the GOP does because the truth is that the donors to the GOP and the Democrats are the same people.
And many of those donors were involved in the Epstein operations.
So I think that that's the main reason that this is being used as a political football.
But I just wanted to make a broader point, too.
If you look at the way like the CIA or, I mean, the State Department, or against the mob in America, the way our government is capable of following the money, monitoring communications, piecing back together information, like this argument that the Democrats destroyed all the files is such bullshit.
Like, well, then create the files again.
Like, go do the groundwork again and get to the bottom of this.
We're talking about a major operation that appears to have blackmailed many very influential, very powerful people.
And the fact that they're not willing to do that, the fact that they continue to pass the buck, you know, trying to put the blame on the Biden administration is just a crock of shit.
It's as if Trump wasn't the president of the United States from 2016 to 2020.
You know, it's like, and then he goes, he goes, no, we got to blame the Bush administration went easy on him.
The Obama administration went easy on him.
And then he skips over his administration and he goes right to Biden.
It's like, well, you did too, dude.
So at this point, I have zero faith that they are actually serious about this.
And I think it's just going to come down to: is his base willing to actually stay home?
Are they willing to punish the GOP so aggressively if they don't deliver that these guys might actually get off their ass and do it?
I think that's the only pathway forward.
And even that, I'm not sure that they're willing because I think it's so damaging to the entire overall operation of the GOP.
Yeah, you know, and that remains, and you bring up an excellent point with respect to the Democrats bringing this up because they think they have something on Trump.
I can tell you every show that I do where there's live comments, somebody on the left will say, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, where are the files?
Epstein, Epstein.
And it's like non-stop at this point.
And what I'm noticing, at least from my perspective, you know, I'm connected to what people would describe as MAGA.
MAGA is ready to move on.
And the president has said they're move on.
We've had a lot of news come in after it at this Obama thing has got a lot of people's attention.
Of course, these trade deals have a lot of people's attention.
MAGA's like, okay, fine.
The Epstein thing was disappointing.
We're moving on.
The people that seem to be more stuck on this are the people I'm describing as sort of people who kind of crossed over to Trump.
And so I think that is the more interesting demographic because remember, Trump, it was a competitive race relatively until people like RFK was like, I'm getting out.
I'm supporting Trump.
Until Elon said, I'm supporting Trump.
Until Tulsi came aboard and said, I'm supporting Trump.
It became this sort of Big Tent unity ticket.
And among that, remember what Trump spoke at the Libertarian Conference.
And so a lot of people who weren't necessarily in Trump's sphere kind of came along.
And I think those that's the group that's been the most vocal: people who said, look, we thought Trump was going to give us the accountability.
We don't trust either of these people.
And we haven't got what we hoped we would get.
So the question then becomes, Clint, and then I'll throw it over to Robert in a second here.
And I just want to get a follow-up from you and ask you the follow-up question: if the base is ready to move on, what does that still mean, though, coming up into the primaries?
Because, you know, libertarians, do they generally even vote in the midterms because they don't ever really have a candidate on there?
They try, but it's usually the Republicans and the Democrats that show up bigger on the midterms.
And historically, midterms favor Democrats.
There's some polling that suggests that's consistent this time.
So at the end of the day, my question, Clint, is who, which group do you think the group that this affects the most will actually impact the midterms, or is this just going to be a sour grape issue that the left will exploit?
I'm trying to figure out, and I honestly don't know the answer to this question.
I'm trying to figure out what the net political fallout will be from this long term.
And then, Robert, I'll throw it over to you right after this.
I just want to get a follow-up from Clint real quick.
Sure.
I think it's going to be significant, honestly.
And not just because of the Epstein case, but like just a litany of failed or non-delivered promises so far, ending the war in Gaza, ending the war in Ukraine.
I mean, there's a lot of examples.
Now, the economy is still humming along decently well.
So maybe, maybe it won't be as bad as it would otherwise be if the economy takes a dip along with all of these other failed promises.
Well, then forget about it.
The midterms are going to be a bloodbath.
I just wanted to point out, too, I debated Vivek Ramaswamy at that LP National Convention that you're talking about.
And like the main thrust of the point I was making to him, Dave Smith was moderating, and he asked me, you know, why is it that you don't just join the GOP and make it libertarian?
It's like, well, the reason I don't, or I hadn't, is because they talk like libertarians.
They campaign like Ron Paul and they govern like John McCain.
Like, that's what they do.
So the fact that they're doing it again with Trump, who was this, you know, alleged outsider, is just more confirmation for all of the black-cold libertarians that have always continued to vote libertarian and finally gave in and decided to give the GOP a shot.
And this is what we get.
So I think that's the real issue.
Look, no one's converting over to the Democrats.
The Democrats are lunatics.
They're evil.
I have no interest in supporting any of them just because I'm so mad at Trump.
But the problem that the GOP is going to face is that we will stay home.
And that's what really matters: do you turn out?
Especially when it comes to midterms.
Turnout is all that really matters.
So, yeah, his base, they're not going to go vote Democrat.
Neither are the libertarians for the most part.
But it's still like, that's the issue.
If we don't turn out, then you're going to lose.
And I think that's probably what will happen.
The Democrats will end up taking back the House and probably the Senate too.
And it's just, it's all self-inflicted wounds.
Before you go to Robert, I just want to challenge your assessment of the idea that MAGA's ready to move on.
The only reason that MAGA is basically maybe throwing him a bone and ready to move on is because they've got the hopium going that Brennan, Clapper, Comey, Hillary, and the Barack star are maybe going to get indicted.
They really think that now criminal charges are coming against them.
So now they're backing off a little bit.
I think once they realize that's not really going to happen, that's imagination land.
You're still going to have to have the copium of some kind of limited hangout thing with Epstein.
And that's what's in the works now.
But let's throw it to Robert and see what he thinks.
Yeah, well, actually, you segued it perfect to Robert.
Barnes' Law is his handle there.
And this actually goes to that, and we're not deviating too far off topic because you do mention the fact that this Obama gate or whatever we want to call it broke.
A lot of people said it was a distraction.
I don't agree that it was a distraction, but I can tell you my logic on that later.
But ObamaGate breaks.
I have been very vocal, and I want to ask Robert about this.
I have been very vocal.
And literally, the day it broke, I said, guys, do not think you're getting indictments from this.
Do not think Biden is Obama's going to be charged with treason because he's not going to be.
It would be almost impossible to charge him with treason.
But there's other crimes it could possibly charge me.
You got statute of limitations issues.
You have immunity issues.
I mean, this is harder than Epstein.
To get something done here with what Obama did would be harder than Epstein, in my opinion.
So, in one way, I'm glad that the information's coming out because transparency is important.
We want to know that a lot of people who said something happened in 2016 and we didn't feel good about it.
Truth is good.
It's vindication in a way.
You're right.
MAGA wants blood.
Robert, I'll throw it over to you.
I mean, if the DOJ is not able to put anybody in jail for ObamaGate, does this then flip right back to Epstein and say, see, this is all a big deal.
Nothing's going to be done regardless of any of this.
Nobody's responsible.
Everybody's above the law, it seems.
Robert, what's your take?
Winner Takes All00:15:01
On the voting issue, I see it as three different constituencies.
You have kind of the MAGA base, which is a diverse base, but the populist portion of that base, represented by people like Alex Jones, are still very unhappy about the Epstein files disclosure.
I always recommend if you want to follow the influencers that are going to be the most representative and reflective of large parts of the populist base, I recommend Steve Bannon and Alex Jones.
The Jones is unique and he reaches into the independent, nonpartisan part of that base.
And there was some polling data out that, or people were sharing it today that Richard Barris, People's Pundit, and I have discussed in the past.
The future zeitgeist of American politics are young working class voters, especially young working-class men of all races, regions, and religions.
These are millennials and Zoomers who don't have a college degree in this modern age, more and more of the working class does, but it's a local college degree.
It's not an Ivy League.
It's not an elite university.
Those voters are overwhelmingly identified as independent, not as partisan.
So that's why, like, they've been misleading Trump into believing that the Republican base not moving on him, though, the self-identified partisans not moving heavily on him means he's doing just fine.
He referenced that when he was over in Scotland with Starmer that his polls are up.
That's fantasy land.
That's fake polls by his own pollsters who are only focusing on a group that's not the most relevant pertinent group.
The issue for turnout, the midterms, for example, is an enthusiasm amongst low-propensity Republican primary base voters.
And there, there is a massive enthusiasm gap developing already, a 20-point gap where Democrats are very excited to vote, the base Republican is not, especially if you look at low-propensity voters.
And those are overwhelmingly working-class voters.
Your professional class, managerial class, post-college educated partisan voter, frankly, votes almost all the time, no matter what.
The voter you have to worry about is the low-propensity voter from a turnout perspective, and the independent voter, disproportionately young working-class.
And this goes to a point that was also well made.
There has been a massive shift in the sources of information for these voters.
These young working-class voters do, and increasingly, many of the older working-class voters who checked out of American politics and came back for Trump.
These two groups call them the dropout voters and the new swing voters.
They do not watch Fox News.
Even the older Fox News.
They do not watch any of the cable news stations.
They do not read the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post.
They don't read their local newspaper, which has mostly faded from political relevance.
They listen to podcasters.
That's what they're in social media.
That's where they get their information.
The reason why Trump didn't understand why Epstein became so big is because he doesn't tune in to podcasters.
It took his son and Robert Kennedy's success in 2024 to get him to even go on podcasters, not realizing the power of it.
And since he's been in the White House, he's completely tuned out podcasters.
He doesn't realize how stupid, how boomer he sounds when he says that.
So only JD Vance in the White House and Robert Kennedy and Tulsi Gabbard are paying attention to the podcasting world.
The podcasting world made Epstein the centerpiece of the problem of a symbolic, not only substantive, but symbolic issue of corruption.
That our elites are so out of touch, so corrupt, so bad, they will do the nastiest things you can imagine, and they will do it with your taxpayer support and your government's cover-up.
That's what Epstein signified.
That's why unveiling the entire Epstein case became such a defining issue for them.
It was the symbolic significance, not just the substantive significance, for them to be able to trust their own government again.
And so Trump's, this issue will never go away.
And until Trump actually satisfied, at least take meaningful steps towards satisfying.
Now, the second question that came up earlier about Schumer, there is Congress passed a law some years ago that said that if five members, the group of five he's talking about, depends on the number.
Sometimes it's seven or eight, depending on how you interpret it.
But if certain committees get together and they demand the government disclose it, the government has to disclose it without getting full approval of the House or Senate.
So, Schumer decided to use this because I think even Democrats have been shocked at what a massive winning issue Epstein is because most of them have been out of touch.
I mean, they listen to Pod Saves America.
Nobody cares what Pod Saves America thinks.
They're a bunch of yuppie professional class New York Times wannabes.
They don't matter.
They should have been paying attention to Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughan and Tim Dylan and Andrew Stein and all the rest.
But they checked out on a lot of those guys because those had gone off the res, so to speak.
So the so there's so Schumer suddenly realizes: wow, this is a big winner.
And now believes, for whatever reason, I'm curious what that reasoning is, that Democrats, high-ranking Democrats are not going to be implicated.
But I do think, and there's another Democratic Party we've seen with Bernie Sanders, suddenly discovered that Israel is a political pariah amongst the Democratic Party.
This has been happening ever since the Gaza strikes developed.
And this is also happening on the right.
Young populist conservatives, even white evangelical Protestants who have always been the base of support for Israel and the United States, don't like Israel.
They definitely don't like Dan Yahoo.
And they have no interest in further aid, further support, et cetera.
But on the left, it's uniform now.
Only boomer Jewish voters still have a favorable opinion of Israel, and they don't have a favorable opinion of Dan Yahoo.
So even Bernie Sanders, who has kept his mouth shut on Israel now for decades, suddenly realized when he briefly mentioned it at a rally, goes crazy, starts chaining no more war about Iran and Israel.
He's like, oh, holy moly, this is a winner.
And one of the big, big restraints on getting into the Epstein files was that it will reveal the depth of depravity of not only the CIA, but Mossad and the Israeli government.
I mean, Epstein's all over that.
Delaine Maxwell's all over that.
Robert Maxwell before that.
Her father was all over that.
It's just some of the nastiest things you can imagine.
And now the Democrats are realizing that they're realizing, one, Epstein files are a big winner.
Number two, the main hindrance, exposing Israel is no longer a big hindrance.
That's a political winner if we run against Israel.
That's going to be a rallying point for us.
I mean, that's why you have Turning Point interviewing Slotkin.
And Slotkin, former CIA, is deeply tied to Israel, gets all kinds of heat because of how that interview goes.
So the other main department for Democrats to expose the Epstein files was Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton is the person most incriminated publicly to public knowledge in the Epstein files.
Lots and lots of trips on planes, lots and lots of trips to the island.
I mean, the giveaway was Clinton would routinely tell his Secret Service staff, don't come on the plane, don't come with me.
All right.
So you know what that's about.
But if you, people haven't been paying attention, the Democratic Party has decided to cut the Clintons loose.
They're like, we need to divorce ourselves from the legacy of these people.
They're not going to be around anymore.
They don't matter anymore.
And there's a lot of vendettas, a lot of vendettas of people who feel that the Clintons did systematically try to gut the Democratic Party hierarchy to instead make them the centerpiece of that.
Well, there's a lot of people that have now come back into power who are eager to jettison the Clintons and pay them back.
So I think that's why the Democrats don't have a problem with disclosing the Epstein files.
And that's why Schumer has now picked it up.
Also, Schumer is trying to dodge a 2026 primary challenge from AOC or somebody else.
He's very vulnerable.
He's probably done his internal polling that shows he could lose.
I mean, it probably shocked him that Mamdani is likely going to be the next mayor of New York City.
There's a guy saying, globalize the intifada, and he's going to win in New York City.
You don't have to go back to remember what Jesse Jackson did to say about New York City.
The makeup of it, it's not like it's a huge Islamic city.
One of the highest concentrations of Jewish voters in the country is going to vote for Mamdani.
You look at these aggregate factors.
Epstein files are going nowhere.
Democrats have discovered it's a big winner.
The only question is how much does Trump screw it up?
As to Russia gate, it's sort of.
I put a pin in that real quick before I want to go.
I want to bring Jason in the conversation before we pivot back to Obama, if I can.
Jason, so based on what you heard Robert talk about, I mean, do you think that there, I mean, Clinton, I think, and even Dave mentioned this about the files not coming out?
Democrats are just involved as they would be.
I mean, look, this isn't just a Trump problem, right?
So I mean, yeah, maybe there is a civil war in the Democratic Party just the same.
And maybe Democrats are afraid of losing some of their seats in some of the farther left.
And I don't know.
I mean, these are dynamics that are complicated.
But at the end of the day, what we're talking about with Epstein, how does this help at all with actually getting the transparency?
I'm not sure it does, right, Jason?
Yeah, no, I think there's zero chance that they're going to get all of these files, especially in regards to the Palm Beach case.
I am happy that it's going to point out the hypocrisy of our checks and balances system.
Again, I agreed with most of what Schumer said on the floor.
He talked about that checks and balances.
And if we actually had that, then by the 15th, we would at least get all the information from not only the case in Miami, not only the case in New York, but as I often say, you know, we would get these documents right here.
We'd get the folders that are blacked out.
You can't even see what's on the side.
We'd know what's on these discs on top of the hard drives.
And they're the hard drives right there at the bottom.
And we would also see, you see all those boxes?
That's Bradley Edwards that we would talk about.
That's the civil case he won against Epstein.
We would have those documents as well.
I don't think we're getting them.
Now, if Robert is correct and the Democratic Party is finally ready to cut ties with the Clintons, that is the move for the Trump administration to truncate this and have a limited hangout of not just the Clintons and their supposed crimes that you're not going to be able to do anything about, but probably one of their closest associates during the time period and somebody that's been named many times in the available documents.
And that would be Bill Richardson.
And in order to do that, you kind of also have to emphasize Zoro Ranch.
If you can make it about Zorro Ranch, New Mexico, the Clinton Foundation, Bill Richardson, and then just have like a curry of other people in the peripheral, maybe Jean-Luc Brunel, who's already died, well, then you have at least a temporary solution until more people, you know, get hip to this.
And maybe you don't lose as many seats, and it's not as much political dynamite.
I know there's a lot of talk about Vance coming in after Trump.
There's a Trump third term.
But if anybody's really paying attention to this movement and the transparency that's being demanded, the only two people that are really in the running for this next political cycle would be RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard.
And in order to make that happen, you at least need this limited hangout thing.
And I just don't see how you start releasing files on a guy that has been a multi-intelligence asset with the banking industry, the arms industry, the modeling industry, and of course, using underage girls to curry favor and blackmail people all on the taxpayer dime.
I just don't see how they come out with that.
So then, Dave, then what?
So here's what I look, we've had these discussions over and over.
And look, the news today was Schumer trying to force out more information.
I think the consensus, if I'm hearing it, is that we're not getting anything.
It's not going to make a difference.
And Clinton made the point before that this is going to make people stay home and possibly deliver a win for Democrats, but it's not going to make people vote Democrat.
So my question then becomes, are we anywhere further from where we were the last time we talked about this and the time for that and the time before that and the time before that and time before that?
No, I think we've mostly been deflected from that, actually.
I think we're actually farther away because of all the kind of red herrings that have been thrown into the mix.
I think that, you know, the Russagate revelations are only partially that.
They're kind of a quasi-deflection because I do think there are meritorious things in those files that have been released, some of which wasn't known about before.
But much of Trump's base knew what kind of a hoax this was long before this.
If they didn't, they learned that in the Durham report, which was released, what, last year?
But yeah, I think the biggest beneficiaries of this are on the populist left taking advantage of it.
And I do tend to agree with Clint that we're not going to get solutions from the Schumer method.
And, you know, they are taking advantage of this.
It's simple opportunism, but the Trump administration should have anticipated that.
This is the Trump administration's fault because of that.
And JD Vance is the guy that suffers the most from this because I think he's only spoken up about this like today or yesterday, essentially in lockstep with the administration on it.
And that's not what the hardcore mega-influencer base that did make this an issue wants to hear.
And, you know, some of the big podcasters that did make this an issue were guys like Dan Bongino, who is now the deputy director of the FBI.
So it really soils this administration in so many ways.
And JD Vance will feel that palpably.
I really do think that this is this generation's JFK.
I don't think this will go away anytime soon.
There will be constant questions about it that linger on through the generations as long as no answers are given.
And that is the Trump administration's fault.
And here's where I'll end.
I'll say that there's a higher chance of Trump appointing Comey as a special investigator to get to the bottom of Epstein than there is that he will charge Comey with Russia gate crimes.
That's what I think at this point.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree.
I do.
I am happy to hear about the Russia gate information coming forward.
I don't think you're going to see anything with respect to Russia gate.
And so like any real prosecutions, I think information will come out.
Higher Chance of Comey Investigation00:04:40
It'll vindicate people.
Do we learn a lesson from it potentially?
You know, that's sort of where we're at.
Clinton, I want to throw it back to you because, you know, Dave says that this can possibly hurt Trump's legacy.
I don't remember which way if it was Dave or you, Clint, that talked about depending if the economy sours, that would be significant in the midterm.
What if, and since we're talking about hypotheticals, though, what if the economy continues to strengthen?
What if trade deals keep getting made?
What if Americans are better off and they start to see their paycheck increase and more better high-paying jobs are available?
I mean, what if he's able to negotiate a ceasefire in Gaza with Israel?
What if the war in Ukraine between Ukraine and Russia?
I mean, a lot can happen in a few years.
I mean, Trump's only been president in six months.
It's hard to imagine that Trump's only been president in six months because we're talking about years worth of stuff here in six months.
So it's foreseen.
Yes, it could either go terribly or it could go well.
So if it goes well, what happens with this Epstein stuff?
Because I think the people who mostly talk about this are us, the people who are on the social media, the people who have the shows about it, the deep thinkers, the politicos, you know, mom and dad and grandma and grandpa who are just buying groceries and still pissed how much it costs to buy a steak, they're not going to be concerned about Epstein come maybe 2026, definitely in 2028, if some of these factors that I mentioned shift.
And what's your take on that?
I mean, no, you're right.
I mean, of course, you're right.
Like, I'd say there's probably 70 to 80% of people that just care about how their lives are going and they don't really care about justice and all of these higher, higher ideals.
So, but I wouldn't say it's just the podcast world.
Like, it is, it is also like the whole QAnon movement was predicated off of like this belief that there's these child trafficking demons that run the government.
And if they believe that Trump was, in fact, either one of them or covering up for them, either way, they're going to stay home.
I mean, that's just what they're going to do.
And I think a lot of those people believed deeply in Trump.
So I think for them, that's going to be heartbreaking.
And I don't think you'll ever get those people back unless you deliver justice.
As to the topic about, oh, which by the way, I just wanted to add too, you're saying, well, what if the economy is humming along?
This is the big reason that Trump's in a war with Jerome Powell is that he's very nervous about the economy.
He's very nervous about the headwinds that the tariffs are going to create, despite the fact that they're talking very positively about all these trade deals that they're making.
The reality is, is that the Fed funds rate being where it's at and the mortgage rates being where they're at as a consequence of that has put a real ice block around the real estate market.
Like things are not moving.
If you see a real downturn in real estate, then you have contagion across the banking sector.
Then you have layoffs.
Then you're back in, you know, maybe not an 08, but certainly has the potential for a significant recession.
If you see a recession before the midterms, it's all bets are off.
I mean, it could be a 50-seat swing to the Democrats, even though that's stupid and the Democrats will just fuck it up even worse.
But people just vote, like when they have the binary choice, they're just going to vote for whoever's not in power at that point.
And then the kind of motivations to show up and turn out changes that calculus changes for people.
So I don't know.
It's very complicated.
I am not like, I would love to say that because what I care about most are like getting the debt under control, balancing the budget, the Big Beautiful Bill didn't do that.
Ending the war in Russia, ending the war in Gaza, doesn't look like he's going to accomplish that.
Epstein justice, COVID justice, no one ever talks about that anymore.
Prosecuting Fauci, going after the deep state that was responsible for spying on Donald Trump and basically framing him for treason.
I'd love to see them all go to prison.
Those are the things I care about most.
I'm not going to get any of them.
So I'm not going to turn out and vote.
But you did get the Obama gate, though, right?
I mean, we are getting information about Obama.
No, that's, come on.
That's all stuff that I learned in 2019 on my own.
I haven't learned a single thing.
I mean, we all knew.
Look, we can talk about that.
With the point you just made, and I'll throw it back over to you, Jason.
The point you just made is like we all knew about that.
Well, we all knew that it was a hoax.
We all knew that it was a hoax.
We all knew that the 2020 election had irregularities that still haven't been properly explained.
I'll leave it there.
We all knew that the Russia gate, the Russia collusion thing was a hoax.
But now at least there's information coming out that shows that we weren't just conspiracy theorists, that maybe we were right.
I don't know what that does.
I don't know what that is.
I'll tell you, a pat on the top of my head when you locked me down and shut down my business, my multi-million dollar corporation.
No, that's not good enough.
Everyone Knew It Was Hoax00:04:13
I don't want a pat on the head because I was right when everyone else was wrong.
And by the way, I want people in prison.
Listen, although there is an objective truth out there, so many people tend to lean into subjective narratives, often false ones.
So even though this is out there, people are taking the Barack Star's word that this is all a hoax and it's all political, et cetera.
I want to go back to what you said about Epstein because you keep talking about how voters are going to move on with the economy or war.
They're not, bro.
I'm telling you now, right now, it has hit the popular culture point to where you've got Donald Trump in bed with Satan on South Park and he's mentioning the Epstein files.
I promise you, it is one of those things that you'll be talking about those other issues, rightfully, at a dinner party with somebody that politically opposes you.
And maybe you'll say you're voting this way.
And then they'll go, what about Epstein?
That's how culturally relevant and significant this thing is going to continue to be.
And that's really why they're going to have to have some kind of a special counsel, some kind of limited hangout.
Look, I've said it before.
I don't think that he was involved criminally with Epstein.
I don't think there's anything to any of the underage girl stuff.
But as far as having a relationship, I was one of the few people out here that didn't dismiss the quote-unquote Trump letter and the birthday party book out of hand.
And now that looks like a real thing.
Do I think that Donald Trump wrote that himself?
No.
He probably said, hey, let's write something funny in this tone to my buddy Jeffrey.
I think he probably did doodle that.
You know, I think that the Bill Clinton thing in there is probably real.
And there's probably 50 other things in there from very well-known people that is very real that doesn't make you look good doesn't mean you did anything illegal.
What else came out this week?
Pictures of Jeffrey Epstein at his second wedding with Marla Maples, Glene Maxwell.
Everybody likes to point out Glene Maxwell over at Chelsea Clinton's wedding.
Well, obviously they had a social relationship there as well.
Another thing Trump had to do is he had to make commentary on finally why he stopped talking to Epstein.
And by the way, this is the third reason.
We had the first reason being Virginia Guffray Roberts basically being curated there.
And that ends up being partially this reason.
You also had the business dealing supposedly on property.
Trump says that Epstein stole workers from him, not once, but twice.
And after the second time, he cut them off at Mar-a-Lago.
And then it was reported on the plane to the press corps.
He did say one of those individuals was Virginia Guffray Roberts.
And again, with the Epstein files that are already released that name Donald Trump, hence he would be in them, we also know that her father worked as a chef at Mar-a-Lago for many, many years.
So look, I think that's the stuff that will continually keep coming out and the press is going to go for that personal relationship.
And in order to combat that, Trump is going to have to do something legally.
Like I said, this is going nowhere.
And I think that that is now in the works with Ghelaine Maxwell.
And let me just correct you on something you said in the very beginning.
He was asked directly about whether or not he would give a pardon to Ghelaine Maxwell.
He said he hadn't thought about it, but he could do it if he wanted to.
Right.
He says that about every part.
He said it about Diddy 2.
He says, I haven't thought about it.
I could do it if I want to.
And everyone's like, he said he would pardon Diddy.
He was going to be well twice when she was arrested.
I wish her well, quite frankly.
Okay.
So again, the Department of Justice wasn't talking to her behind closed doors before the Bondi letter.
But after the Bondi letter and the fallout, that's exactly why they were talking to her.
Well, we'll see.
Yeah, it's a good point.
But Robert, I'll bring you into the conversation.
Look, and this goes right where we left off before, with respect to arrests and everyone saying, I want to see somebody go to jail for this Russia stuff.
Your handle is Barnes Law, I'm assuming.
Are you a lawyer, I'm assuming, right?
Yes.
So as a lawyer, knowing that how difficult it would be to actually get convictions in this and against Fauci and against all the things that we want.
Legal Sabotage Tactics00:05:47
When I say we, what MAGA wants, MAGA wants accountability.
MAGA wants somebody to go to jail.
Is there any legal path that's quickly that would quickly give somebody this sense of justice?
Because even an indictment would take years and years and years between just the grand juries and then the charges and then the trial dates and the immunity claims.
I mean, nobody's going to have any sort of closure from a judicial standpoint anytime soon, right?
Well, at least that they see action.
In other words, the problem that the Trump world has is the Normies have now seen what this looks like.
They saw how Mueller went scorched earth and put everybody and their brother under grand jury investigation.
So they saw how Biden with J6 went scorched earth.
They saw how he did with Trump.
So they know what this looks like now.
They know what the investigations look like, what the indictments look like, what the criminal cases look like, what the trials look like.
So if they don't see something comparable in Epstein, in Lawfare, in Russia Gate, in COVID, or at least some combination thereof, they're going to know that the administration was never serious about holding anyone to account.
And I think it wouldn't be that hard to prosecute Brennan and Comey.
Those guys couldn't help themselves.
They lied repeatedly.
What Tulsi Gabbard has detailed and documented is smoking gun proof of them conspiring to commit false statements under oath for the purpose of sabotaging America's foreign policy.
One thing the right can't get their head around is it's called Russia Gate for a reason.
It was as important to Obama and Clapper and Brennan and Comey and the rest to prevent the U.S. from having a détente with Russia as it was sabotaging Trump.
And they can't wrap their head around it.
Instead, they go to great lengths to take, oh, Russia really wanted Hillary to win.
Nobody in Russia wanted Hillary to win.
They thought she was batshit insane.
So, I mean, these are just stupid statements of boomer cons who watch too much Fox News.
And it's why they can't put it together, right?
They can't.
Russia Gate, the worst consequence of Russia Gate was not the sabotage of President Trump.
It's the hundreds of thousands of dead people, mostly Ukrainians, in that war.
It's the risk of potential World War III.
So to me, if we're going to hold the deep state accountable, the only time this got close was the late 1970s after the various committees by the church committee, Frank Church, the senator who was illegally spied on by the NSA, created the Select Committee on Intelligence that was supposed to monitor the intelligence committee.
Today, it is the intelligence committee's tool to monitor Congress.
But that's when a whole bunch of people, including Mark Felt, Mr. Deep Throat himself, was indicted.
And then there was no consequence.
We got Iran-Contra.
We got Reagan pardoning them all, and that was it.
So there has to be some consequence, or all the future clappers, the future Comeys, the future Brennans will do this all over again, and we'll be right back in this nightmare situation.
So they can just go to the Southern District of Florida.
They can use it as venue because the raid on Mar-a-Lago was all about a continuing cover-up effort concerning Russia Gate.
So you've got a friendly jury pool, a friendly grand jury pool.
You can even call a related case and have Judge Aline Cannon, who has already ruled in favorable ways on this in the Trump context, assign the case.
So you don't have the DC grand jury pool, the DC judicial pool, the DC jury pool controlling this.
If you bring the case there, like Durham did against one of the few people he brought in prosecution, a corrupt DNC lawyer, you'll get nothing.
And everybody knows it now.
I mean, the Normies get it.
J6 was a massive red pill masterclass in the corruption of the legal system.
But so they know how the legal system can operate when it wants to take somebody out.
It does the morning raids of the Paul Manaforts and the Roger Stones.
So there's nothing prohibiting them from subpoenaing Barack Obama to testify in front of the grand jury or Joe Biden.
There's nothing prohibiting them from impeaching him.
The Democrats set that precedent when they did it to Trump after he had left the presidency.
They impeached him.
So if Congress wants to do meaningful remedy, they can take it.
They can do it on Epstein.
They can do it on Russia Gate.
They can do it on COVID.
The Matt Gates actually helped set up such that Brennan can easily be indicted for perjury based on the 2023 testimony where he lied repeatedly to Matt Gates' questions in Congress.
Thomas Massey has a whole bunch of these great records available to them.
So the only question is the willpower.
And what is Tulsi Gabbard looking at next?
I mean, there's a reason why Gabbard's doing JFK, RFK, MLK, RussiaGate, and next is going to be COVID and election.
It's because it's all about the deep state, administrative state, national security state, corruption of our constitutional republic against our interests.
COVID was just another continuation and extension of that.
It's going to get into bioweapons labs in Ukraine.
It's going to get into the who sourced the leak in China.
Does it come back to Anthony Fauci?
Does it come back to the United States?
As Robert Kennedy said, use this report, the COVID report that's coming by Tulsi Gabbard and Robert Kennedy to have a COVID truth and reconciliation committee, call people like Anthony Fauci right back in front of them, and they either can confess and thus get some degree of contrition, or they lie and they get prosecuted anew for perjury because the pardon is not prospective.
Those are all the things that can happen.
I have no confidence because I think Pam Bondi is a corrupt hack.
She's been her whole career.
She's busy sabotaging the DOJ and the antitrust division as we speak.
She's the one who orchestrated this Epstein bogus letter.
Long history of corruption going back to the state of Florida.
Kash Patel has turned out to be a joke.
Dan Bondino should go back to podcasting where he could maybe have some credibility.
He's got none at the FBI.
So I don't have confidence in this.
But if they want to do it, they absolutely could do it.
Republicans Acting Like Democrats?00:09:39
And if they want to have any political power and JD Vance wants to be president someday, they have to do it.
So David, thank you.
Those are good comments.
David, let me throw it over to you.
Look, what he said was right with respect to we saw the playbook on how it could be done, right?
The left showed us that you can make up crimes and just charge somebody, even if they've never been tried before, even if it's against the president of the United States.
We're just going to try it and see what happens.
Find the best forum and see what throws everything against wall, see what sticks.
I mean, certainly they did that with President Trump.
And I think a lot of people, at least on the Trump people, want to see that happen the same way.
Well, like, why don't we do the same thing they did, right?
I mean, they did it to us.
We should do it to them.
I've never been an advocate of they did it to us, we should do it to them, because then it just becomes a cycle of whoever wins an election, the other party goes to jail, and that's how you end up another country, not America.
My philosophy has always been we're not like them.
And when I say we, look, I'm a Republican.
So I say we're not like them.
We don't take power and then start immediately prosecuting people.
Although there's a lot of people, and we talked about this a minute ago, who did fall underneath Trump in this election because they wanted us to be like them because they wanted some justice.
How do we balance?
Because we just talked about this.
You know, and I know Jason believes, and I don't disagree with you completely, but I do think when people talk about Epstein and it being in pop culture, it's going to be weaponized by the left and the right will soon reject it as being a leftist talking point versus legitimate.
So if that ends up happening, right?
And if people aren't paying attention, if 90% of the world doesn't pay attention to what we say, except for on X or our audiences, but outside of that, I'm talking about mom and dad who watch the network news, right?
So if we start acting like them, when I say we, if Republicans start acting like them, I got to be careful because I'm always talking from a conservative platform, trying to be objective.
If Republicans start acting like them, doesn't that, you talk about Clint talks about people staying home.
Doesn't that make the Republican base say, well, I don't like that.
I don't want to see this justice system weaponized.
I don't, yeah, whatever about Epstein.
That's the leftist.
Doesn't it run the risk of actually doing harm to the Republican base because now they view us as being no better than the Democrats?
And at that point, who do you vote for?
Maybe it could to some people.
And you have to pick your battles.
You have to choose what's most important when you're waging this kind of lawfare.
But to me, if you're asking me, what I would hone in on is literal treason, like happened in Syria when the U.S. and USAID was dumping in $15 billion to support al-Qaeda 10 years after 9-11 when arms flowed into the hands of ISIS and al-Qaeda, the al-Qaeda affiliate headed by Jalani al-Shara, that's now in control of that country.
That's what I would really focus on.
But when it comes to RussiaGate, there's too many nails in the coffin there.
And they're setting up a new disappointment for the Republican base by dangling these charges against these criminals.
I think they're vile criminals too.
And I'm not locked into the left-right tribal mindset to some extent, I guess, as a libertarian, but I think that's true.
And you have this situation where these heads are being dangled out there for the base and no heads ever roll.
I don't think that you can restore confidence.
And if they go to COVID, they pivot to that next, and there's more heads that aren't going to roll.
People just feel duped.
And I think that's the biggest threat.
I think Clint's right.
It's not to the extent that, you know, Republicans will suddenly be like, nope, I guess I'm a Democrat now.
I'm all in on wokeness and what Gavin Newsom and AOC have to say.
It's just sit your butt at home because of how disappointed and blackpilled you've become because of how they've responded to this.
And hey, I think they're going to set up a series of continual disappointments that will end up worse than if they deflected from Epstein in the first place to some extent, actually.
I got to interject because I was kind of referenced there.
It's not becoming like them.
I mean, what you're saying is they concocted a bunch of BS and they did to go after Trump and all of his supporters.
And they got, you know, I mean, countless people on perjury charges for talking to the FBI and basically getting dates wrong when they were actually telling the truth about not being in bed with Russia.
This is totally different.
I mean, we're talking about like bioweapons, biowarfare when it comes to COVID.
We're talking about actual framing of treason.
I don't know all of the different laws that were violated as a consequence of that.
Like, I'm not making anything up.
These are all actual prosecutable crimes.
The COVID, excuse me, the Epstein operation, like even if you don't believe that it was an Intel organization or Intel op, regardless, still major criminality.
And by the way, there's lots of court cases that demonstrate that, yes, they were actually trafficking them to rich and powerful people for favors and things like that.
So even if you don't go down the blackmail Intel avenue, still major, major crimes, and only two people have ever been prosecuted for it.
And one of them died mysteriously in prison.
Like we are not becoming the Democrats by prosecuting corruption within the government.
The only way you end the corruption in the government is to prosecute it.
You are not becoming the Democrats by doing that.
You are in fact attacking the Democrats by doing that.
So I just really want to push back on the idea that wanting to see people that ruin this country go to prison is me becoming, you know, throw shit at the wall and just see what sticks.
No, I don't want anyone to go to prison that's not guilty.
I want the guilty to go to prison.
That's the difference.
So, you know, I'll agree with you completely on that.
And the issue is this, though, and I want to get your perspective on this.
We live in a tribal society, and I understand Dave says he doesn't fit into that box, and that's okay, but our media does.
And so if we charge, and I do believe somebody deserves to go to jail, what they did with abusing the FISA warrant system, using a fake dossier that they knew was based on bad intelligence that was curated by a campaign of the political opponent of the person.
I mean, this is all really bad stuff.
And we've only talked about the first bad thing.
We haven't talked about the 17 other bad things that came after it.
But the problem is, Tulsi Gabbard was detailing the essentially the indictment, not the indictment, but the indictment of Barack Obama and his intelligence community.
CNN cut away from it.
They said, okay, well, Tulsi Gabbard is talking.
The day the first indictment is filed, whether it be against Clapper, Comey, Brennan, or the janitor who was in the room at the time and overheard him and didn't say anything, whatever.
Immediately, the spin masters from the political parties, the narrative from the media is going to shift from what is legitimately being done.
And I agree with you, Clinton, people deserve to go to jail.
Does it become, do the people get to know the truth?
And how do we ensure that the justice that we want looks like justice to the people when they, you know, Robert said before he left, he called them, what do you call them?
The boomer cons watching Fox News.
But so the, so the people who are getting their information from either Yahoo or Fox, how do we know that when we do indict people that legitimately have a reason to be indicted, that it's not delivered to them through a lens of, oh, Trump's just doing what Obama did and the whole government is corrupt.
And then you have a bunch of people in the center going, see, we can't trust anybody.
Everything's broken.
Screw this country.
How do we thread that needle?
Because I feel like nobody's going to be willing to accept that what Obama and folks did was wrong and they should go to jail.
But what Trump and the January 6th people did, they shouldn't have gone to jail.
People aren't going to accept that.
We live in this crazy judicial Rubik's Cube right now.
And I don't know how we get one side looking at one color.
What do you think?
Well, it's definitely very challenging, but I'll say, like, the way you get justice is to actually pursue it, which the Trump administration is not doing right now.
If they were interested in it, all they have to do, you can circumvent the entire corporate media, relic media outlets and just go back on the podcast circuit.
You'll reach more people anyways.
And also pair that with legitimate prosecutions, real indictments, real dossiers, real evidence, like all things that the Democrats could not put together when it came to Trump and his sexual assault allegations or the Russia collusion stuff and the multiple impeachments.
I mean, they just made up stuff, if not whole cloth, almost entirely whole cloth fiction.
This is not that.
So if the Trump administration was serious, if Kash Patel and Dan Bongino were the guys that they purported themselves to be on their podcasts, well, then, yeah, this is all doable.
The reason it's not doable is because they're not serious.
Like, that's the problem.
They are trying to buffalo their supporters while delivering nothing.
If they try to deliver something for real, then you don't need to worry about what NBC News says about it.
Actually put together the evidence and put together the indictments and then take your case to the public through the alternative media outlets, which would be gleeful to have you.
The reason that Trump and so many of his in his inner circle won't go on the podcast circuit now is because they can't, because they're lying.
And to actually like face the fire of a genuine journalist, which you can only find in the podcast world, they couldn't do it.
They couldn't even do it with Rogan.
Rogan would chew them up at this point.
So if they start to deliver on their promises, they can go right back on the podcast circuit and they won't have a problem.
Until then, they're going to have to avoid it.
And I think that's the path that we're on, unfortunately.
And Dave, let me just say this.
Narrative Of RussiaGate00:07:42
You talked about threading the needle of this.
There is no threading it.
The narrative has already been set, my friend.
I mean, when you look at headlines like this, how Tulsi Gabbard is trying to rewrite the history of the 2016 election, that's called narrative management.
And I think that, you know, we talked about RussiaGate.
I think we should actually talk about the narrative of RussiaGate, that what they sold us on and what we still talk about is so far away from the truth of that.
First of all, RussiaGate wasn't really discussed at all prior to the election and Trump winning.
And in the first week, the first couple of days especially, the talking point was Russia hacked the election.
So a lot of people didn't know what that meant.
Again, they don't go beyond the headlines.
They weren't reading things.
What do you mean they hacked it?
Did they get into the machines?
What exactly happened?
And then the narrative became what?
Well, they didn't hack the election.
They're the ones that hacked the DNC emails, and they were working hand in glove with WikiLeaks and Trump.
All of that, if you've actually read the Mueller report, was never proven.
In fact, when you look at what they've said, first of all, I'm one of the few people that actually read the GRU report, and they were saying it was the GRU that hacked these things and then gave them.
First of all, I'm extremely skeptical it was the GRU in the first place that got those DNC emails.
They also said Gusepher 2.0, Gusifer being an original hacker who was, I believe, he wasn't American.
I think he was European or something like that.
He got busted.
They said that Gusifer 2.0 was basically the GRU.
That was never proven.
I would say this, you know, Ratcliffe is out there talking about more and more documentation being declassified.
Yeah, we certainly need that declassification because the Mueller report has major redactions.
And when you get into the arena of those redactions via Wikileaks in particular, I'll be the first to admit, they made political decisions in 2016.
When they put those DNC emails out, they did put breadcrumbs out.
They told people to look for signs of human trafficking.
They put out that FBI document that had symbolism of pedophilia in it purposely.
Okay, that is 100% on purpose.
But remember, in that same document, okay, they talk about Seth Rich and that conspiracy.
And yet that same FBI denied having any documentation whatsoever on Seth Rich.
What did we find out during that in the Durham report?
Oh, no.
Not only did we have documentation on Seth Rich, Peter Strzok, of all people, was involved in that investigation.
We've had FOIAs on the Seth Rich case, even through the Trump administration.
In March, we were supposed to get full disclosure on it.
There are still 300 documents that have been completely redacted and held back.
And let me say one more thing.
I often talk about Cy Hirsch here, okay?
Cy Hirsch had a whole different narrative regarding Seth Rich, RussiaGate, and Desange.
And Ed Butowski, he taped phone calls with Cy Hirsch.
Cy Hirsch called the RussiaGate thing a whole clapper operation.
He said that he was able to get access to an FBI document on Rich.
And in a lawsuit with Butowski, you know who that guy was, that FBI guy that got on that document?
Supposedly it's Andrew McCabe, the deputy director of the FBI.
So there are rabbit holes amongst rabbit holes in the truth about RussiaGate.
And we all get this simpleton narrative of either Trump was working with Russia or the Russians wanted Trump or they had compromised him, et cetera, et cetera.
We rarely get to the truth of the matter.
And I think that's essentially the problem.
And, you know, as far as these indictments, I actually think you might see some indictments, maybe Clapper, maybe Comey, maybe Brennan.
But whether you're going to be able to successfully prosecute them, again, you'd have to go all the way back to the Iran-Contra days.
And if miracle upon miracle were to happen and that happened, I guarantee you the next administration in there pardons those people.
And that's just the sad truth of how the system works.
Jason's right.
There are still some rabbit holes about Russia Gate, including who Joseph Mifsud is, the guy that appeared like 89 times in the Mueller report, but doesn't appear in Durham's at all.
And Massey and Gates asked that question, never really got an answer.
But the administration seems more, you know, focused on meming, you know, drawing memes of Barack Obama being chased in a squad car on True Social than actual indictments.
They don't have the political will behind it, and it's going to bite them in the ass.
The most crazy thing about this whole charade to me was while Russigate was playing out for, what was it, two to three years, they were calling, you know, Trump as a guy that was colluding with Russia, colluding with Putin, and he's the guy condemning Russia for holding Snowden, giving him asylum.
He's ratcheting up the sanctions regime against Russia for Crimea.
He's giving them aid of offensive weapons for the first time ever in the form of the Aegis missile system and $400 million worth of arms for the first time.
And they're still getting away with it.
I mean, ultimately, reason has to prevail.
The mainstream media won't change, but it is a dying art.
The legacy media is the ruined media, as Clint just said.
And the boomers are locked in, but it won't always be so.
And I'm with Clint being that, hey, some of these things need to be prosecuted because they aren't hoaxes.
They're actual treason or high crime and misdemeanors and not things that grip the imaginations of people for two to three years that turned out to be farces.
One little caveat or addition to that, which obviously I agree since he agreed with me.
So we all agree.
Oh, shit.
Now I made a joke and I forgot what I was going to say.
I hate that.
Oh, no.
It'll come back to me.
Give me 10 seconds.
Yeah, yeah, take your time.
I'll say this and then I'll throw it back to you.
I recall, and look, and it's my belief that Democrats always give a little hint about what they're working on.
And if you're smart and if you're paying really close attention, you can catch some of their tells.
And for me, the Russia thing was during the debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.
And Hillary Clinton said, well, that's because you're ties to Russia.
And Trump's like, Russia?
The hell did that come from?
Like, it came out of nowhere.
And that made me think.
And then once all the Russia gates, I'm like, oh, they were planning it from the get-go.
This was something, this was that insurance policy that they were planning and they knew about it.
And I don't know if it's a guilty conscience or they're just so cunning that they're willing to just put it out there and just see if anybody picks up on it.
It's in the damn emails.
They talk pedestrian and Clinton actually talk about it in the emails that they leaked.
Again, something the main, we have to remember the mainstream media, even before they pegged it on Russia, had Chris Capo Cuomo up there telling you you weren't allowed to even look at the emails and it was illegal.
But he was allowed to because he worked for CNN.
That's how looney tunes the media's relationship is with the government, the deep state, whatever you want to call them, David.
Dave Smith absolutely destroyed Cuomo on that point during his debate on PBD.
If anybody wants to check that out, I finally remembered my point.
Why Forgiveness Isn't Enough00:11:24
The way that you know that the Trump administration is not serious is that what they're actually talking about is, yeah, sure, it's memes of Obama and the cop or they're in the white Bronco and you got JD Vance and Trump and the cop cars behind him.
And that's all, you know, fun and stupid.
But what they're really describing, if you want to really go after these things, are real deal prosecutions of the actual deep state, an actual draining of the swamp, a thing that Trump has campaigned on for nine years now and never has delivered on.
If he was serious about that, you don't meme about it.
These people will kill you.
Like, no bullshit, dead, kill you.
So the fact that he's memeing about it tells you everything you need to know.
He has zero intention of actually prosecuting these people or even investigating them in a sincere fashion.
They're going to give us breadcrumbs.
They're going to basically hope that that assuages our concerns.
I hope that his base is smart enough to realize that is not enough.
If you do not send these people to prison, they will never stop.
You will never have your government back.
You will never have your country back.
It is lost forever.
Trump is your chance.
He is at least influenceable.
It doesn't make him one of us.
It doesn't make him a good guy.
It means that we have a chance, but it requires his base to flip on him in the most vicious fashion you've ever seen in your life.
Do they have that will?
Well, if you listen to the cat turds of the world, fuck no, they don't.
They're going to just continue to blow him no matter what he does.
But he's not delivering, and it's time for his base to say something about it.
And I hope they will.
The midterms are just around the corner.
His presidential term will be over in a blink of an eye.
If you're serious about these prosecutions, they must begin immediately.
These investigations must start now.
You need to have the indictments within six months to 12 months, and then you need to have the prosecutions done before he's out of power.
Because I forget who said it, but yes, it was Jason.
They will be pardoning these people.
That's not the point.
You need to send the message that if you do these things, we are going to make your life hell.
The Democrats did it to Trump for nothing.
These people ruined our country.
Do it to them for real and with good cause.
The greatest cause imaginable.
I'll get off my soapbox.
You know, no, your soapbox is right.
And I've said this a million different times.
And look, I don't know if it's a secret here, but I'm a big Trump supporter.
But that being said, I've said it about a million times that what we need to be laser focused on is the fact that in three and a half years, there is no more Donald Trump.
There is no more Donald Trump coming.
He can't run again.
There is no more Donald Trump.
And what he's replaced by, no matter how great we feel about whoever is replaced by, will not be Donald Trump.
And so your last chance of stopping what happened, what we saw happen in 2020 and 2016, what we're going to see happen in 2026 and 2028, it has to be stopped now.
Because if it's not stopped now, Clint, I agree with you 1,000%.
It's never going to be stopped because they've gotten away with it.
And now they've learned their lessons.
Like, okay, this is where we screwed up.
How do we button this up better?
I think this is our, and it's not fair to put this on Trump's shoulders because he is just a man.
And I say this a lot because we want everything from Trump.
And he's into 70, what, it's 80, 77 year old.
I don't know how late 70s.
He's in his late 70s.
Clearly, he's not as healthy as he used to be.
He's a man, a man who's been through a lot, almost killed.
He's run for office, won twice in the span of almost 10 years.
And yet.
It's up to Trump.
Right.
And it's up to Trump to stop all of this from being able to happen again.
I mean, that is more than you can.
I don't even know how somebody can bear that burden.
But I'm not putting all of it on his shoulders, and I completely agree with you.
Yes, I'm asking for the impossible.
But I will say this.
There is no one with an ego bigger than Donald Trump.
There is no one that wants to go down in history more than Donald Trump.
There is no one that talks about how great they are more often than Donald Trump.
Show me, don't tell me.
Okay.
And by the way, I don't need prosecutions of everybody involved in all these scandals that I'm talking about.
I need like, give me two out of five of those major scandals that I just described.
Give me two, 40%.
Can you do that?
Can you give me one?
Because at this point, you're giving me none.
So that's the issue.
I'm not asking for perfection.
I'm not asking for him to fix this country after 100 years of it being destroyed.
I'm just asking for real, sincere efforts.
You're going to die in 10, 20, 30 years at most, probably 15 to 20 years.
What are you living for, man?
Like, take a swing.
Like, take a risk.
This matters more than any individual.
And if he's a legacy guy, which I believe he is, this is his opportunity.
And if he just continues to kneel to the deep state while memeing about it, well, then fuck him forever.
That's how I feel.
Let me see this, Dave.
You know, I think that even a guy like myself on the Epstein issue wouldn't be going as hard if we were not at war in the Middle East and the Ukraine-Russia situation had been taken care of.
Like, I would be so much more forgiving if I was not seeing dead kids in my feed in the Middle East and no end in sight and then having him cut a deal for $400 million in Patriot missiles.
And then when he's cutting a good economic deal with the European Union Union, mention the weapon systems and how he's got everything sorted out with NATO.
That kind of stuff makes me throw open my mouth a little, okay?
So even beyond the deep state, I look at those type of policies and I'm like, well, I didn't vote for this thing either.
And I think that's a big problem.
I do think he's a legacy guy, like Clint said.
So it's put up or shut up.
At the same time, look, he's a great politician.
I'm certainly not saying that he's not an intelligent man.
But as far as knowing the details of any of these things, he doesn't really seem to know them.
He just puts out the same talking points that he hears in conservative media or on the radio.
And let me give you a great example.
He's continually talking about Bill Clinton going to the island 28 times.
That's not even what the media reported, bro.
All right.
So like, let's get it down.
First of all, it's not one island.
It's two islands.
Second, if Trump knew what he was talking about, he would talk about Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton not only visiting Zorro Ranch, but having an actual residence on Zorro Ranch in the middle of the desert, in the middle of nowhere.
Now, when we talk about the 28 times, those are simply times on the plane, some of which did not even take place with Epstein or en route to Epstein's facilities.
One of which I think accounts for at least four of those flights, and that's the trip to Africa with Chris Tucker and Kevin Spacey.
So now you're down to like 24 times on the plane, supposedly.
You'd think Trump could at least get those type of things right.
Instead, it's just Bill Clinton, Larry Summers of Harvard.
Yeah, Larry Summers is not a great dude.
In fact, he's a guy that I'm heavily critical of.
He is one of the predator class masters in that he's also a member of the Bilderberg group, sits on the steering committee there.
I can tell you just from those accolades alone, Larry Summers ain't getting in trouble for the Epstein files, no matter what they say about him.
So, you know, that's the conundrum.
You're talking about a guy that's in academia, that's in politics, and that's in banking, all the things that we talk about that encompass Epstein.
And that's the thing.
You could talk about the deep state all day.
If all you can do is kind of identify it and do nothing about it, well, what kind of power does the president really have then, David?
And I think that's the frustration that especially the normies, even if they don't go as deep as Jason Burmes, they see that on the peripheral and they say, well, I can't get behind this guy either.
Yeah, I don't know if anybody goes as deep as Jason.
I think you even have like clips queued up for guest spots on shows.
I mean, I'm impressed.
Dave, I'm going to give the last word to you and then we're probably going to close this conversation up because I'm sure it'll pop up again tomorrow.
But I'm going to throw the last word over to you.
But before we go, I'm going to make sure everybody tells.
And so, Dave, you make sure you do this when you wrap your comments, where people can follow you and what you want them to do.
And we appreciate you being here.
But Dave, I'm going to give you the last word here.
Sure.
I'll just say that I think Trump's base is actually remarkably forgiving and would be more forgiving if we saw complete disengagement in Ukraine.
I don't know that we'd be talking about this.
I would like to talk about this.
I know Jason probably would because it's of importance to us.
You know, this runs completely in alignment with Trump's original mantra, which was drain the swamp.
And actually, I've noticed that they don't even talk, they don't even use that slogan anymore.
And I think it's because it would, you know, soil their faces too badly.
They've gone to America first, and I think they're going to abandon that because it's clearly Israel first in many regards.
So, if Trump did disengage from Ukraine or he didn't launch a new war in Iran, which I don't think we've seen the end of those tensions, by the way, with Iran now with unlimited incentive to actually develop a nuke when it was specious that they were close to a nuke before,
because they see how the U.S. deals with North Korea and regime change isn't exactly on the table against North Korea now, or if Trump would have implemented Doge cuts, even a fraction of the 2 trillion projection that was originally made.
No, he's laughing stock over that too, especially in regard to his schism with Musk, who seemed a lot more genuine on that issue, by the way, regardless of what you might think of Musk.
So, you know, there's so many things here that could have worked to Trump's benefit, but he's just not delivering.
The rhetoric was sometimes good, but the actions weren't.
And hey, I'll give him credit for withdrawing from the World Health Organization and releasing the JFK files and shutting down USAID, which was actually unexpected.
And, you know, libertarians broke out in pure glee for that.
But, you know, he hasn't done it.
But where you can find me is Liberty Vault on YouTube, D-Benner83 on Twitter.
And just, I really appreciate being part of these conversations.
And these two gentlemen are experts at this field too.
And, you know, they've never been to the crossings, but they're still experts here.
Well, and we had Robert Barnes on, which was a treat.
I think that guy's incredible.
But I just wanted to add too, I agree.
Like, it's not that I wouldn't care about these issues if he had delivered on his other promises, but like if the threat of World War III and risk of war with hot war with Russia was off the table, if the starving and bombing and death and destruction in Gaza had ended, if that was off the table, then I probably wouldn't be as angry.
I would just be disappointed.
Now I'm angry.
That's the difference.
And I think his like his core base, they're probably in the disappointed/slash angry category.
I'm like furious.
So I think that's a good way of viewing this thing.
And he can turn down the temperature.
Like as I said before, the bar is so low.
The Democrats suck so bad.
He just has to deliver on like 40% of the things that he promised, and he will sail into the history books.
But he's at this point, it doesn't seem as if he's capable.
So we'll see.
By the way, I have Brett Weinstein on Liberty Lockdown this weekend.
That's going to be a great one.
And we're going to dive deep on COVID justice, I'm sure.
So if anybody wants to hear about the prosecutions that'll never happen, tune in.
Avoid Harmful Content00:01:39
Nice.
Jason.
Yeah.
If you guys like harmful content, as YouTube has deemed me right here, content that focuses on controversial issues.
It is harmful to viewers.
The reason I can't be monetized.
Please give me a follow over there.
All my documentary films are free of charge.
You can go and get it.
That's how you know you're the real deal.
If you haven't been suspended or canceled, then you're just not telling the truth.
I have not been monetized now for almost five years.
They took my channel five times.
I had to shame them on Twitter/slash X to get it back.
But you can still see all of my documentary films: Shave the Motion Picture, Invisible Empire, a New World Order Defined, Fable to Enemies, and Loose Change Final Cut for free.
I would just encourage people not to just listen to me, not just listen to podcasts, mainstream media.
Really do your own research, read through the articles, read through the white paper, watch the speeches, and then you have God-given discernment, free will.
Make your own decisions into account.
And there are times for team baseball, and it's usually baseball.
It's not politics.
I love how you have clips for everything.
I mean, everything's queued up.
It's amazing.
Well, guys, thank you so much for being here.
If anybody's watching and wants to hear more from me, I don't know why they would.
It's at David Pollock USA, all over the place.
And that is going to do it.
Another great panel, folks.
You know the drill over here.
It is not about left or right.
It is always about right and wrong.
I cannot do it without you guys.
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