The Epstein Debate...No Conspiracy To See Here Folks
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Hey, everybody, Jason Burmes here, and you've heard the news.
Jeffrey Epstein didn't have any co-conspirators, and Jeffrey Epstein absolutely killed himself.
Now, if you followed my work for years, you know, I would highly disagree with that point.
And I was just given the opportunity yet again to go on the Mario Nafal channel and defend my position.
Now, this is a large panel.
You're probably going to hear less Jason Burmes than you're used to.
But out of the gates, I get to dispel the myth about a client list and insert not only the intelligence argument, but the arms dealing aspect as well, which I think is a critical point.
Now, this is going to be a two-parter.
You're not going to want to miss it.
Buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
Good evening to everybody.
Thank you so much for joining us on this latest episode of Mario Nafal's live stream.
This episode is going to be a continuation of a breaking news space we had yesterday on Axe that was co-hosted by Sarah and Justin, good friends of ours that kind of discussed about the Epstein file and also a continuation of yesterday's live stream where we even talked about Elon's political party.
And so for this live stream, we want to touch upon both major news, major developments.
We have a full panel.
I'm also joined by David, who will also be helping me co-host for this episode.
David, what's your thoughts?
Look, as of last night, I wasn't even sure that that memo was real.
I'm still not sure the memo is real.
The story we know is real.
The memo that disappeared off the Axio site, that I still have questions on.
But yeah, Caroline Levitt confirmed a little while ago that there is, in fact, no quote-unquote client files.
I know a lot of people are absorbing this.
There's been a lot of news today about some people disappointed, not understanding how there can be all this evidence, especially if you read the memo yesterday, whether it was real or not.
It was at gigabytes and gigabytes of evidence that supposedly didn't implicate anybody else.
And this was sort of the case closed, plus the fact, and this is kind of old news, that Epstein supposedly killed himself.
And that was confirmed by the lack of evidence to suggest otherwise.
And it was links in that memo, again, not sure if it's real or not, the links from the memo last night with 11 hours of video purporting to show the sell and nothing happened.
I have a feeling that there's going to be some scope of opinion from it is what it is.
I mean, at least that's my opinion to people who say this is a massive cover-up.
So I'm excited to hear what the panel has to say about what they think and we'll let the conspiracy theories go.
If I could just jump in, because I think, you know, because David, I'm Jason Burmese.
I've been studying this literally since it happened in 2007, eight when we first got that Palm Springs case.
I need to make it clear to everybody, there is no client list and there never has been because Jeffrey Epstein was not selling young girls.
Instead, Jeffrey Epstein was a serial pedophile that would then use these girls to not only recruit other girls within the network, but then curry favor and cut deals as well as blackmail others who went there.
So in other words, they never came to Jeffrey Epstein and said, I'm going to pay you this for that.
They would come there.
There would be business deals, mostly arms deals, because Jeffrey Epstein was an arms dealer.
Okay, Prince Andrew was an arms dealer.
You can look it up.
It's fact.
And he would say, hey, which ones do you like?
And then those would be the girls that would go with those people.
Now, if he felt like he needed to tape them and blackmail them, that would be another aspect of this.
So what's really wrong is the way this whole thing has been framed, that people were going there to buy young girls.
That is not how it worked.
There wasn't just one island, by the way.
There were two.
And Steve Bannon, he did, I think, eight hours of interviews with Epstein before he was arrested by the Southern District of New York.
And in that interview, he actually states that he had two islands and Bannon goes, islands of Dr. Moreau.
He goes, that is correct.
And that is a reference to the fact that he was into transhumanism as well.
So I am going to allow somebody else to speak, but I just wanted to lay that groundwork.
Epstein Files Unredacted00:07:23
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, I know you and I actually talked about this.
I don't remember what we were talking about on the last show at this point anymore, but somehow it led to this conversation.
And it's funny that this broke now.
Look, I want to go around to the rest of the panel.
We'll go one by one.
I mean, do you think I want to know?
I have two questions.
One, if the timing of the release is interesting to anybody, because look, Bibi Nanyahu and Trump are meeting today very soon, and their potential for a ceasefire deal to be announced is high.
You saw the Bolsoniro stuff today, maybe on X, and that was interesting.
And then on top of all that, we have this leak last night on Sunday night.
Caroline Levitt addresses it today.
Timing-wise, it's very interesting, especially considering this whole America Party thing that's going on, and we're just on the heels of the big beautiful bill passing.
I mean, literally, there couldn't be a more crowded news period.
So is it intentional?
But then again, is there any there there?
And so I'm going to go speaker by speaker and you all let me know what you think.
I mean, is this real?
I can't see everybody's names because they're tiny, but I'm going to go to you, Mike, because I can see yours first.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate you having me on, David.
And I felt for you.
Earlier this morning, I saw when you were talking about the Epstein files and you were talking about I was just on Axios and don't believe it yet.
And I was feeling for you because from my side of the aisle, I'm a Democratic centrist.
You know, we've had an opinion on this along for a very long time.
David Epstein was an absolutely despicable human being, absolutely horrible person.
And, you know, the events fell out as they may.
But as far as there being a client list, if you've made that, if you've made that much money in your life and you've accomplished the things that he was able to accomplish, I don't think you're going to have things like a client list laying around.
I'm a pilot.
You know, I've flown people all over the world.
And it's a small aircraft, as a small, privately owned aircraft.
We're not always, it's not always a regulation to have a manifest of who's on the aircraft.
So I can see a lot of different reasons why there's just not a big master list of all things Epstein.
Sometimes a case is what it is, a case.
You follow the evidence.
It leads you to a certain path.
And this path ended up with him taking his own life in a jail cell in the Southern District of New York.
So you believe he did kill himself?
I do believe he killed himself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And yeah, look, I still don't know if the memo is real.
I'm still sticking with the memo either wasn't ready to be released or something because the memo still doesn't fit right with me.
The story in there is real.
And look, let's talk about it for a second, right?
So, so, and I, and I agree that there's not going to be a client list.
This whole idea that these Epstein files, and I said this last night, there's the whole idea that the Epstein files are sitting in a file cabinet somewhere labeled Epstein files and are labeled one release, two release, three release, and it has all this information in it that's going to hold all these people responsible in all these high positions.
It's the same thing like, you know, Stefan and I were talking about when the JFK files and the RFK files, like everyone's like, oh, we're finally going to have our smoking gun.
After 50 years.
They just kept that perfect little file implicating everybody dusted off in case anybody ever wanted to release it unredacted.
So I never thought the Epstein files were a real thing.
Um, with respect to having evidence that's going to actually be actionable, because why would anybody keep those records?
And I felt so bad, because I felt as though it was, you know, needlessly dividing the Republican Party.
Um, you know, it was uh, one of those things or kind of an unforced error.
There was a lot of unity, there was a lot of uh, you know, when you guys won the election, you guys had, you know, a tailwind and some people started drinking from the fire holes and we're going to get this or we're going to get that.
I don't think all of that was necessary and I think it was just an unforced era and made more division and what you guys made was a pretty darn cohesive uh very, very varied coalition and there was no need to just even kind of have that, that Epstein list, as as part of that.
So David, but can can, can I just uh, and?
And let me, I guess, because we do want other speakers but just to kind of maybe flip it on the other side based on your, your comment, and let me go uh, uh to Johnny for this, because again we're going down and we want all the first, like i'm hearing this because you know David, I think that let's remember.
You know, Jeffrey Epstein died in 2019, right during the first Trump administration.
We saw nothing during the Biden administration because you know and, and people you know, kind of ran wild with the conspiracy theories, but it looks like you know what this, what that was the case.
There was no file, there was no client list, there was no this grand conspiracy.
But then Johnny, my question to you is then, why did the Trump administration in the second term feed into this idea that there was a conspiracy, there was a list?
They even we all remember the binders that they handed out to certain influencers.
Right, like?
I understand David, your point but Johnny, the Trump administration has only themselves to blame for feeding into this, and Pambundi specifically as well.
So either they're lying and, as Elon said, Trump was on the list before he deleted that or there was nothing, never there, but the Trump administration just gained the people to to kind of get support, and there was nothing there.
What do you think, Johnny?
Okay well, I gotta say.
You know what Jason was saying was quite true, 99.9 of the girls who were being brought into Epstein's compounds were being abused by Jeffrey Epstein, the preferential pedophile himself, and the rest was, if you want to indulge, you get yourself further in with the cabal and the cabal gets protection.
But when it comes down to the Epstein client list, I can tell you you could go to Newspace now and you can.
You can find uh, all of the names you're going to find.
You can find the unredacted client lists and you can find uh, the unredacted sorry um flight logs and you can find the unredacted address books.
And those are about as much information as we are going to get.
The rest has to be investigated.
I've been doing this for a long time and this Trump backwards and forwards with Musk and the Epstein file stuff.
This is an illusion, guys it I?
I reported just four days before the election Jeffrey Epstein was running EDGE, 100% funded by Epstein, while Musk was doing courses at Edge on how to manipulate people by using social media.
The base level of this conversation has to start with Elon Musk was complicit with Epstein at one point, and so was Donald Trump at one point.
And this is a dirty pool of dirty people who have had a load of time in the sunshine and try to get away from this as much as possible.
They've moved parties.
I mean, Elon Musk used to be a Democrat.
Trump used to be a Democrat.
They've run away from it over and over again.
And now we're entering into a new era, an era of fifth generation warfare, where all of this collateral, when we saw the first release of the Epstein files, we knew it was going to be a joke.
People like me who've been researching it, who helped research for One Nation under Blackmail, who have been writing about this for six, seven years.
Cover Up Culture00:05:50
And we all knew that it was going to be a joke.
And what they released was the unredacted, the redacted versions of what's already out there.
So what it is is slow release of nothing and keep everybody excited all the time, keep everybody talking about drama and conspiracy.
But we've got to start a new level.
We've got to start a level where we understand that there's a load of information out there that people are choosing, the majority, the majority of the media are choosing not to look at, both mainstream and independent, because it's uncomfortable and it shows that all people colluded.
You know, last show, now I remember we were talking about the Diddy trial with Jason.
One of the concepts that we were discussing in it was the fact that, you know, it seems that we knew the Diddy parties were happening.
We knew the kind of people that were there.
And now Diddy goes to this trial and he's only convicted of like the least possible offense.
And we had this whole conversation of, you know, can be people be held accountable at the highest levels, right?
And then you look at this particular instance and to just what you were saying, Johnny, was anything there?
And maybe they made a lot of nothing about a lot of something about nothing because there was promises made that these things would be released, but they didn't actually exist to release and maybe the whole time and nothing ever existed?
Or do you think it was just so sufficiently destroyed and buried that there was never going to be anything to release?
And it was really just playing into the distrust of government.
And maybe this one was one of the promises that could never possibly have been kept.
Do you think it's a cover-up?
Or do you think there really wasn't anything there?
And then I'll throw back to you, Johnny, and then I'll get Grant's take on it.
There is masses if they wanted to prosecute, but they can't prosecute because it's sticky, icky everywhere.
You know, you go into detail about who's actually managing this case on the Epstein victims lawyer.
One of the main lawyers was Stanley Pottinger, who was working for the CIA, who lived 500 meters away from Jeffrey Epstein, who shared an office when running guns with in Iran Control with Jeffrey Epstein.
It's mucky everywhere.
Giuliani was the one who didn't prosecute him in that.
You know, everybody's got their part of this affair.
And honestly, if they wanted to prosecute, they could.
If they wanted to find evidence, they could.
But they don't.
They wanted to die.
And one reason, because it's easier to just paint Jeffrey Epstein as a Mossad rather than accept he was recruited and put through CIA training and worked for multiple intelligence agencies because that would mean Senate congressional testimony and hearing would have to take place.
And it would be the CIA working on American soil.
That's what they're trying to hide.
Jason's up there.
I think, as of right now, he's putting a poster of you on his wall.
He is so excited up there in his tiny screen about what you just said.
Grant, let me ask you your take on it.
Look, that is a possibility, and that's a theory that I've heard.
And obviously, some people agree with that theory.
You know, what if it's not so much that everybody was it's not like an intelligence operation?
It's not so much that everybody who went to the island was engaged in the activities that occurred there, just as if everybody went to the Diddy party, didn't necessarily go downstairs and do the freak off.
So, how much of this is people going, oh man, this could get me in trouble.
Let's cover this up, even though I didn't do anything wrong, versus how many people did wrong.
I mean, what do you think?
I mean, nobody knows everybody that did wrong, right?
But we know that Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein have an incredibly long history going back at least about 25 years, right?
One of the whistleblowers who really led to Jeffrey Epstein being outed in public had started, like had met him as a Trump Mar-a-Lago employee, right?
And then met Jeffrey Epstein and left the club.
So these people were neighbors, right?
We've seen the images of Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump together partying.
You know, we've heard Jeffrey Epstein saying that they were best friends, like being, you know, in recordings before he died.
So, I mean, we just, we know that there's this relationship.
And we also know that the Trump administration sometimes plays extremely fast and loose with the truth.
And so nobody really knows if there's an actual client list sitting on anybody's desk, but we do know that there was a phone list.
And that's why people suspect there's a client list.
The phone list was published back in 2014 and it included Democrats and Republicans, a lot of wealthy people.
But again, you know, I agree with Johnny in the sense that you can't say that every single person that flew to this island was there for nefarious purposes.
And I've done these kind of broad-ranging investigations that go up into the high levels of something.
And, you know, for every 10 people that are involved, maybe only one is actually involved.
The other nine are, you know, just at the party for some reason.
Just giving an example and not going too deep, there's this Russian-American professor who wrote a book on Russian ethnic lobbying in the United States with a foreword by a former Republican congressman named Kurt Weldon, right?
And it was like, this guy was inviting everybody to his, you know, Washington shindigs.
They were being held in the Senate Hard Office building.
And you saw people like Dennis Hastert and Jeff Sessions and, you know, a lot of very prominent Republicans who were invited.
They were there.
They were associated with this guy, this Russian spy, but they weren't like in on the thing.
Now, the guy who co-wrote the book and, you know, he was a little bit deeper, so to speak.
Opening a Can of Worms00:02:38
And you see, that's the thing, like, nobody really knows.
And so all of this withholding of information after promising transparency and then the fake releases, it's just building up the expectation that there really is some sort of Donald Trump cover up going on.
Because let's face it, why would you not release these things if they were real and you're not involved?
And why would you say they exist when they don't?
It just doesn't all add up.
And the only like logical thing is some sort of cover-up of something when you look at all the pieces and put them together.
So, I mean, it's their own behavior that's bringing the suspicion at this point.
It's not like people are suspicious for no reason.
I mean, you've got this pattern of lying, obfuscating, falsely releasing things, saying things exist, then saying they don't exist.
I mean, three is more than a coincidence, and there's four.
This is one of those instances.
So, do you think it's possibly one of those instances of the cover-up is bigger than the crime?
Or do you really, or is it the crime that's bigger?
Well, that's the thing.
Nobody knows if there's a bigger crime.
I mean, we know that there was illegal sex trafficking and prostitution going on, similar to what happened with Diddy.
But, you know, they never got a conviction that was going to put Jeffrey Epstein away for multiple years, right?
This Diddy conviction looks like he's going to be behind bars for quite a few years.
There's going to be some real accountability.
With Jeffrey Epstein, again, another one of the unusual things about it is he gets into prison, you know, commits suicide apparently very quickly.
And the same day, the attorney general Bill Barr at the time, a man whose nickname since the 1990s was the cover-up general, I should add.
He visited Manhattan the same day to go meet with Rupert Murdoch.
And then Epstein disappears.
And people are like, well, you know, there's certainly a correlation, but we don't know about any causations.
And that's the problem.
There's so many correlations.
There's nothing that says anything about causation.
Although, you know, most people, and I couldn't dispute it, I couldn't disprove that Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself.
But I mean, even I've reported on enough subjects to have reported on a situation where a very credible coroner told me a story about how someone's murder was made to look like a suicide in a case that he was medical examining.
So this is the problem.
They've opened up this can of worms.
And how do you put them back in?
I mean, they did not have to open up this can of worms.
Jeffrey Epstein And Cover-Ups00:15:14
Well, that's my big point.
Well, and you saw he beat himself up too before he ended up killing himself.
So he was a danger to me.
I didn't see it.
And if I did, I would tell you definitively what happened, I promise.
You know, we saw when the JFK files were released and then the RFK files were released, all the FK files.
They released some more JFK files this week, and it was pretty consequential, actually.
Oh, well, it was a consequential event.
Not yet, but it looks like Sit Rep, we're going to have to do another video space on it.
But when those files were initially released, it did show very interesting things about the length that our intelligence communities went to sort of to cover up a fumbled investigation, essentially.
I mean, they went all over the world.
They knew about this guy.
He kind of slipped through the cracks, whether it was intentionally or negligently.
And then they kind of bent over backwards to hide the fact that they were incompetent, leading to a multi-decade-long conspiracy that it was all planned and coordinated.
Now, I'm not saying it wasn't.
What I'm just saying was the conspiracy became bigger than the story.
And the story was intelligence and competence, the cover-up of which made it even worse than what it always was.
At least that's what the records show.
If you believe them or not, that's what the records show.
Now, I don't know if this is what's going to happen with Epstein.
Now, Clint, I want to send it over to you.
I mean, what do you think?
I mean, what's your take on all of this?
Well, I think it was an intelligence operation.
I don't think that they did this to themselves or they let the cat out of the bag or they brought this upon themselves.
I think that there was massive demand from the voters for justice on this issue.
And they campaigned on it because they knew that that would be appealing.
And, you know, as far as unforced errors go, Pam Bondi, the attorney general, came out and said thousands of hours of video of him with underage minors, and that's why it's taking so long.
She also said that she was reviewing the list.
I mean, there's just so much smoke to this fire that to ignore the fire is insane to me.
And then also to ignore the connections to Israeli intelligence.
I agree that it's a multi-intelligence operation.
He's probably a triple agent.
I think he's probably MI6, CIA, and Mossad, maybe even French intelligence.
I'm not sure.
But regardless, this is a huge, huge story.
It has all of the momentum that was going into Trump's second term is now, as far as I can tell, at least from the base, is largely turning against him and rightfully so.
If it started with, you know, no new wars and he's bombing Iran, then he gets the big beautiful bill passed and he talks about mass amnesty.
And now they promise the goods when it comes to Epstein justice.
And now, case closed, there's nothing to see here.
I just think at some point you're going to reach a tipping point where even the most die-hard Trump supporters ultimately realize that they've been duped.
Now, I was not a die-hard Trump supporter, but I did expect him to deliver on some of these things.
And it seems quite evident that he doesn't intend to.
And that everybody that's around him, some of which I know, some of which I've shared the stage with, like Kash Patel, I am shocked, honestly.
I am shocked by the depravity, by the deception, by the duplicity.
It's disgusting.
And I think that everybody involved ought to resign, if not be prosecuted themselves.
It is gross, to put it mildly.
When you say everybody involved should be resigned or prosecuted, who are you referring to?
You're talking about DOJ, FBI, Dan Bondi, Kash Patel, all of them should resign.
If this is the cover-up that it looks to be, yes, they are covering up for the, I mean, they're basically contributing to the cover-up of the solicitation and trafficking of minors to the rich and powerful for blackmail purposes.
At some point, someone has to pay a price.
Sorry, Jim, let me just have a quick follow-on question.
So, I mean, Elon Musk tweeted this where he kind of mentioned the idea that Trump was on the list and that's why the delay and blah, blah, blah, when the first breakup happened a month ago.
Do you think that was Elon blowing smoke and kind of being exaggerated to hurt Donald Trump?
Or now that what we saw, nothing, there is no, quote, no client list, do you think that's going to fuel the fuel, the fire of this belief that maybe Trump is on it and that's why they're not releasing it?
I don't know, but I want to encourage people to look past Trump on this.
When you're talking about a trafficking operation with hundreds, probably thousands of victims to the richest and most powerful people all over the world, not just American politicians, but all over the world.
This is much bigger than Donald Trump.
This is much bigger than the presidency.
This is probably the biggest scandal in my lifetime right up there with forcing toxic vaccines into billions of people all over the world that killed countless.
So whether or not Elon was telling the truth, whether or not he had evidence to say that, whether or not that was just dirty pool because he was pissed because Trump was challenging his motivations when it came to rejecting the Big Beautiful Bill or whatever else, I don't know.
I don't know and I don't care.
I doubt Elon has actually read in on that level.
But as Jason and so many others on this panel have done the deep dives, we've done the research to know that there is fire to this smoke.
So unless there's justice to be brought, I want everybody behind bars.
That's my starting point.
And then I work backwards from there.
Let me throw it over to you, Liz.
I mean, and I understand Clint's point.
He's mad.
He wants accountability.
What if whatever cover-up ensued ensued before President Trump took office?
And he sends the FBI, he sends the DOJ in, and they think there's going to be something there.
And they're like, I don't know to tell you, there's nothing here.
How far back do you go to try to hold people accountable?
And how much is the American public willing to accept on that?
Well, we know that there's been a cover-up going on regarding Jeffrey Epstein for decades.
It's just like nothing new.
I guess the question is, is President Trump's DOJ and or FBI currently involved in a cover-up?
And I don't believe that's true.
What we do know, though, is that after Jeffrey Epstein was arrested the first time and after several of his homes were raided both times, by the way, we know that evidence was tampered with and or destroyed and or not handed over immediately, aka meaning that they could hide evidence.
Um, that happened after they arrayed.
They raided his Palm Beach home during his first arrest back in like 2008 or 2009 and then when he was arrested again in 2019, that happened after the raid in his New York home.
They didn't give over all the evidence right away.
Like his lawyers had access to that evidence after the raid, so that doesn't make any sense.
So how much evidence has gone missing?
We know that there was one police a deputy deputy sheriff here in Palm Beach that actually took a lot of the evidence and copied it, including the blackmail tapes, and gave it to a man that lived here in Palm Beach reportedly, and he ended up fleeing to Russia and so he allegedly has a lot of the evidence.
So there has been cover-ups for years.
I mean the fact that the first time he got arrested he got the sweetheart deal and really didn't get any like severe punishment for what happened to him, and a lot of it was covered up.
And, by the way, the first time he was serving his jail time prison sentence, whatever um, his bodyguard actually went to CIA headquarters to do a training session with the CIA and to get a message for Jeffrey Epstein from the CIA to deliver Jeffrey Epstein when he was in prison the first time.
So there's your CIA link that some of you guys were talking about beforehand and like more confirmation that Jeffrey Epstein was definitely tied to not just Massad to the CIA as well, in terms of president Trump and his administration.
I don't believe that they are covering this up.
President Trump, you know there was a reference to him being friendly with Jeffrey Epstein years ago and that is true.
He was friendly with Jeffrey Epstein.
That friendship started before Jeffrey Epstein's operation started.
Jeffrey Epstein's operation did not start until Dylane Maxwell became his girlfriend or and or handler and came in the picture.
And when she came in the picture all of a sudden, that's when the massages started.
That's when the girls were brought to the home.
Who was procuring those girls?
It was Delaine Maxwell.
That's when president Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein started to crumble.
They had a fallout and after he found out what he was doing, he not only banned him from Mar-a-lago, he later was the only person from the Jeffrey Epstein's black book that worked with the victims lawyers to help him and them with their cases against, against Jeffrey Epstein.
That lawyer's name is Bradley Edwards.
He said in his book and he has said this in interviews as well that out of every single person that he called in Jeffrey Epstein's black book and he called every single contact the only person that helped him take down Jeffrey Epstein and help the victims was president Trump many years ago.
This was before he became president, so I don't believe president Trump is part of this cover-up.
Once he found out what Jeffrey Epstein was really about, he not only you know like kicked him to the curb.
He Helped the lawyers and the victims.
In terms of Liz, can I ask you a question real quick?
Why would Trump not fire Bondi then?
I mean, she's coming out and said, I've got the list, I've got the goods, we're reviewing it.
We got thousands of hours of video, and then there's nothing.
If Trump's not involved with the cover-up, why is he not firing her today?
Okay, so my answer to that is, you know, I think that that looking at this situation and assuming that there was a cover-up is you're looking at it from like a 10,000-foot view.
I like to go up higher and look at it from like a 30,000-foot view.
And what I see happening is, first of all, if they are going to prosecute, call them the clients, call them, you know, the co-conspirators, call them Jeffrey Epstein's ring of pedophiles.
What we know is that there were people that went to the island, went to his homes that were good friends of Jeffrey Epstein that he invited that raped women and children.
Okay.
We know that for a fact.
If President Trump's DOJ is going to prosecute those people based off of the current FBI's investigation, they are not going to release evidence that's going to hurt those cases right now.
So what I think is happening right now is I think that what we're seeing is a lot of kabuki theater that is very strategic to keep the people that were involved in this ring guessing and on the run.
That's what I think is really going on.
I think that there's a lot of psychological warfare happening.
And I think we've been at this for six years plus.
I mean, well, I mean, at some point, hold on.
Sorry.
I just, I have to like six.
Okay, like let's say law enforcement investigation, right?
This isn't, this isn't a CIA plant going in deep undercover to try to get in the, in the desk of Vladimir Putin where he can get his personal notes and send it over to the CIA or an attempt by the NSA to crack some sort of super encryption.
That's not what this is.
This is a law enforcement that I granted takes a long time.
The problem with your theory list is Jeffrey Epstein was indicted.
He was already indicted.
This is six years.
Like if it, so there's either two explanations to this.
Right.
But when you say six years, like four of those years, President Trump was not in office.
Joe Biden was.
Right.
But the FDI is going to kick.
Like, okay, I got it, but this is when people can, like, first of all, correct me if I'm wrong.
I know Clinton was on the list, apparently, Trump, but Biden was like just Biden, right?
So there's FB, like, I don't, you don't, like the DOJ and Merrick Garland, you know, they can do their investigations.
So there's two things either, and this is where I was saying it earlier.
Either there is a conspiracy and there's a reason why Trump is not releasing this and Pam Bondi or two, what I personally believe is that everybody who fell within the Epstein client list played everybody as a fool.
They just played it.
They wanted to tap into the conspiracy theory portion of America.
They wanted to tap into that for electoral reasonings.
Now that they're in power and now they don't have to run into reelection, they can say, sorry, guys, there was nothing.
And the whole, and we saw this because they all went to the White House and handed them binders.
And the people were there, all the conservative influencers had the binders to show it.
And then they opened.
They're like, what the hell is this?
There's nothing at some point, like this 4D, 5D, 6D chess, six years plus.
Like it's done.
There's nothing else.
This is the last thing.
I don't know.
It hasn't even been six months since President Trump got into office and Cash and Vinceno have been there for less time.
Yes, the binder gate thing was absolutely ridiculous.
And I think that it exposed a lot.
But at the end of the day, if they are going to take down this ring and the FBI from President Trump's first term and Biden's administration, if they are corrupt, then they're going to need a clean house first, number one.
Number two, they're going to have to go through all these.
This makes no sense, Liz.
I'm sorry.
It doesn't makes no sense.
Because Jeffrey Epstein was indicted and hung himself when Donald Trump was the president.
Why would Joe Biden then come in and investigate that two years, three years after the fact?
I mean, it just doesn't make sense.
This is not something that Joe Biden did, right?
I mean, this is all something that Donald Trump did.
And by the way, I looked it up and yes, Bradley Edwards.
That Donald Trump did.
Like, I don't know.
Like, there was nothing.
Donald Trump is the one whose administration handed out the binders, right?
Right.
Like this year.
And let me say this.
I mean, I looked it up and you're right about Bradley Edwards, the lawyer who represented the victims, has said multiple times that Donald Trump cooperated with him.
And I think that does say something, but it doesn't say what it doesn't say either.
Does that make sense?
It doesn't rule out things either.
Unfortunately, it just doesn't rule anything.
Let's get Stephen in.
Is that Stephen saying that?
It's Johnny.
Oh, Johnny.
Real quick, let me get Stephen in the conversation because he sat there as far as he's on my screen patiently in the corner.
And I want to get his take and then we can go around.
Thanks, David.
Well, first off, trust in government's at an all-time low.
The government lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get us into war in Vietnam.
They lied about the Lusitania.
They lied about that the air is safe to breathe.
We didn't find out until decades later the Saudis were complicit.
There's probably more we don't know.
They lied about COVID and vaccines, efficacy, as well as the words.
Let's Give an Example00:15:30
No lies in the middle like the Gulf War, for example?
Sure, no.
I mean, I could run through JFK files.
Was Lee Harvey Oswald a Patsy?
I mean, there's all these things we don't know.
JFK, RFK, MLK.
Yeah, all of them.
There's all these lies.
And on top of that, you have, what is it, Bohemian Grove that was exposed, all of our elected officials out in the Redwoods of California, sacrificing an effigy to Moloch, allegedly.
So, you know, what else don't we know?
What else are they hiding from us?
And, you know, I was texting my social media guy today.
I said, you know, put out a real banger on this whole Epstein thing because so many people were looking forward to, you know, Trump quoted a large part of the MAGA vote on the fact that we're going to find out who's on the Epstein list.
Pam Bundy said, dude, there's this whole stack of paperwork on my desk.
I'm going to release it.
I'm going to release it.
You got Kash Patel on Fox News.
It looks like he's got a gun to his back.
What does he know?
What is he not willing to say?
Oh, well, there's people that, you know, there's a, we can only go after him for so long, you know, this and that.
It just, it seems to me like this is a big cover-up.
It could be a big psyop marketing operation to get the heat off the Trump administration.
Maybe some of his pals are complicit, perhaps himself.
It's highly conceivable.
You know, was Jeffrey Epstein an asset of Mossad?
You know, Ghislaine Maxwell certainly had her IDF connections.
So what was happening there?
It's the same playbook we see with Diddy.
And of course, Diddy's getting off soft on trial after all, you know, all the big hype around him.
So, you know, it's conceivable to imagine that our politicians and elected officials around the world or even unelected ones were caught up in this blackmail network in order to concede concessions or concede control, but by whom and for what purpose?
Perhaps we'll never know.
But I think we can safely say maybe in 100 years we'll finally find out what happened on 9-11 or what happened during COVID.
But the American people don't trust the government to tell the truth.
And I don't think we're ever going to expect Donald Trump to out his buddies or, you know, if he was involved or whatever else, we're just not going to know.
And for them to flip-flop around this issue and then finally say, well, Epstein didn't kill himself.
I mean, has anybody seen his cellmate?
It was a New York corrupt cop.
He looked like a jack gorilla.
He's like six foot five.
That was his cellmate.
You know, why would they pair this guy with somebody like that?
I mean, everything just doesn't make sense.
At first, there was no footage and then we had the footage and then the footage is missing a minute or two.
So the story keeps changing.
It just, it seems obvious to anybody who's able to think that, you know, it just doesn't make any sense.
And I think he's going to lose a lot of support over this.
So hearing after everybody's had a chance to speak at this point and hearing everybody, it seems like a consensus on the panel is that this was a cover-up, whether it's a cover-up of one administration or another administration.
It's part of something giant, something bigger.
Nobody's going to be held accountable.
So my question is, and then we'll just go around, whoever wants to jump in on it, because I know everybody has something to say.
And I know Jason over there is probably dying.
Like literally, you could jump in.
But here's the thing: what if, and it's just hypothetically, what if it's not some giant conspiracy?
What if there was a lot of rich and powerful people that were there?
Maybe some rich and powerful people did some bad things.
Epstein took the fall.
Nobody else is going to be implicated because he was the fall guy.
And the rest of this was just a bunch of speculation that turned into being nothing.
And then Trump came in.
And I agree, the Pambondi binder incident was a little bit of a fumble.
But after that, they're like, guys, there's nothing else here.
We're just going to tell you there's nothing else here.
Let's move on with our lives.
So everybody thinks that that's the impossible reality.
I'm not saying I believe any of these things.
I'm just saying, is it possible that there's really just nothing else there?
And we could just move on with our lives.
And all this other stuff is just because we want to give life to something and hoping it's true.
Just like the JFK files.
Jason, go ahead because I know you're dying.
And then whoever is quickest to the draw gets the next comment.
All right.
They got me muted.
Go ahead.
They got me muted.
I'm mute.
Okay, so folks.
Let me just say this.
I'm going to show you my work right now.
First of all, the idea that there is not literally thousands of documents you can access right now at court listener of tens of thousands of pages, I know because I have them.
So you can have those off the bat.
Okay.
So now we have that documentation.
We have other co-conspirators' names.
They've been sued.
Leslie Groth, Nadia Marcinkova, Sarah Kalin.
These were all in the network.
Okay.
Now, I'm going to show everybody here.
I know I'm a little thing, but it should come up in the middle.
This video right here, this would go to the point where not everybody's involved.
Here, Lewis Black tells about his one experience.
By the way, it's at the top of my X at Jason Burmese, if you want to go watch it, where he went to Jeffrey Epstein's house.
Jeffrey Epstein pulls him to the side and he shows him a whiteboard.
He says, Do you know what this is?
He goes, No.
He goes, I was discussing weapons systems with the Israeli defense minister last night.
You know, David, you mentioned the political sphere right now in that meeting with Netanyahu.
Ahud Barak is named hundreds of times in the documents that we have.
Okay, now I'm going to show you more documents because, again, we show our work here.
They showed you one binder that they handed everybody.
Okay.
Now, just right here, what you're looking at are over a dozen binders that they don't even want you to know what it says on the sides of them.
Now, as reported in the evidence, because these were taken out of the New York home, you had pictures and burned videos on DVDs.
And look, here are the DVDs they took also in the evidence.
So all that would be documentation that we do not have.
And then those are the hard drives.
And if you'll notice on those hard drives, they took them a second time.
Those are 80 gig Maxster hard drives.
I'm a dork.
I know the era.
And they already have police evidence tape on them.
We mentioned Bradley Edwards here.
Let's show our work.
Bradley Edwards won in court.
Jeffrey Epstein paid him a bunch of money for defamation.
Now, you can't see the whole picture, but you'll see a box behind the women that he represented.
That is stocked four high and over 20 lengths long with what?
Documentation on the Jeffrey Epstein case.
So right there, those are documents that are already out there.
You know, I hate to keep repeating myself, but this is a multi-administration thing.
And I want to dismiss some misnomers here.
For instance, the host said that this has been going on six years.
No, it's been going on since 2016 when Trump mentioned it with Hannity.
Okay, so let's make that extremely clear.
Now, go back to when he was asked just before the election on the JFK, RFK, MLK files, 9-11, and then Epstein.
He was really hesitant on the Epstein ones.
Go listen to what he says.
He goes, the other ones, more than the Epstein, but the Epstein thing has taken on a life of its own, and his base wants the answers.
And that's why they've given you this dog and pony show.
Okay, and just so people understand, again, I'm not making it up.
You could just go look up just this headline.
New lawsuit against Jeffrey Epstein estate details sexual abuse and names alleged co-conspirators.
Now, another thing that we should realize with that Trump connection is that his lawyer for at least one of the impeachments was Alan Dershowitz.
Dershowitz cut the deal in Palm Springs.
Dershowitz has gone on the record and says he knows who is on those videos that they haven't showed you because he's seen them.
Another little interesting tidbit on that whole thing, okay, with Dershowitz is the fact that you had Acosta helping cut that deal.
All right.
Acosta was quoted in Van Di Fair.
Religious.
Well, again, so for those that don't know, let me give you a timeline.
Vicki Ward puts out a story that Acosta was told to give him a sweetheart deal because he was quote unquote connected to intelligence.
Again, the story is so big that during a press conference on a separate issue, Acosta gets asked about it.
Acosta can't deny it.
So he says, look, I'm aware of the reports.
All I would say is you don't believe everything that you read.
Within 24 hours, he was side by side with Trump on television, leaving that job.
Okay, so we're talking about multiple decades.
Now, I would say this: Trump was pretty outward about exposing Epstein, which leads me to believe that he did not have sexual relationships with underage girls.
Donald Trump, if you don't think he had sex with Stormy Daniels for money, if you've never watched him on Stern, if you don't realize he is a serial philanderer, you're in Imagination Land.
The guy literally ran beauty pageants, okay?
I think that that and maybe some estate deals, because those estate deals that went sour were also reported on, was his connection.
You can go to a Vandy Fair article where he wasn't getting on Epstein's plane.
Epstein was getting on his plane.
Okay, and it's quoted.
I mean, all that stuff is real and I've reported forever.
So look, I don't think Trump is as dirty as some of the other ones.
The other thing is, you know, you talk about currying favor and the money.
You have Clintons with the Clinton initiative and the fact that Jeffrey Epstein was counsel on foreign relations, trilateral commission.
These are some heavyweight positions.
And I'll leave it with one other person that we have not discussed at all here, Les Wexner.
Les Wexner and him, oh boy, they're right together.
And Les Wexner, very political on the Israeli side as well.
There's that Mossadegh connection again.
And he's done no jail time.
I'll go to you, Johnny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know what?
That's a good time to pass it off to Vedmore because I could have gone on for, I mean, let me just hit this really quickly.
We talk about that suicide.
You mentioned Nicholas Tartiglione.
Now, he wasn't that jacked when he was in prison, but I'm from New York.
Pretty corrupt cop.
What they finally got him on is he cold-bloodedly executed four guys on an upstate New York farm in a drug deal and got convicted of that.
Now, the first suicide attempt, Epstein's lawyer and Epstein's brother have been on the record that they said Tartiglione tried to strangle him.
All right.
Someone mentioned Bill Barr being there the day of.
Bill Barr is career CIA, and there was a New York Post report before the first suicide attempt that Bill Barr had visited him in prison, which they then had to retract.
I just want to put that out there.
So, Vedmore, take it from there.
Before I go, Johnny, I want you to finish up, but I have a question for you as well, and then I'll let you respond to that.
Look, there's going to be people, I mean, there's thousands and thousands of people watching this stream.
So, the people watching, now, everybody on this panel obviously has done a lot of homework.
I think Johnny has clearly shows his work.
I'm sorry, Jason clearly shows his work.
So, everybody's done a ton of research on this, right?
Everybody knows what they're talking about from a level like, you know, I'm going to call it the conspiracy dungeons and dragons level.
Like, you guys know the game, right?
But there's a lot of people watching this stream that are like, who's Epstein?
Did he kill himself?
I mean, that is the extent of people's knowledge of the Epstein thing: whether or not he killed himself and he had an island, and whether or not Trump was there on the airplane.
That is basically the majority of people's fund of information, if they even know that much.
So, Johnny, and I'll let you respond to what Jason was saying: is what is, and I hate to use the expression again because it was already brought up with the 30,000-foot thing.
But if I'm just learning, and I see the press conference today, and Caroline Levitt says, Yeah, there's no more files there.
And, you know, you have conservative pundits saying, no, Trump wasn't on the plane, Trump wasn't on the island, whatever.
He was on the plane.
He knew a lot of rich people.
And Bianchino says Epstein killed himself.
Okay, fine.
That's the end.
What is a way that you can kind of tell people, wait, there's a little bit more here without getting so far into the weeds that people are like, well, you lost me a conspiracy theory.
You know what I'm saying?
Because there's a lot of people who haven't done the research you did.
And it's like trying to explain somebody algebra before you taught them math.
Let me give you a tiny little bit of short form, something really easy and simple.
Hey, Jeffrey Epstein was an intelligence interlocutor.
He worked with multi-intelligence agency, multiple intelligence agencies from all over the world.
He was running guns.
He was running operations.
He was also helping with political programs for the Democratic Party.
He was choosing the leaders of the Democrat Party.
He was going and funding people before they got up to leadership positions.
And then he would help them get in and stay in.
The people who he was helping get in as well were all linked to the CIA.
And I got to now get in the weeds.
I must get in the weeds.
I was listening there.
So to follow up then.
So to restate what you said so people can understand, Jeffrey Epstein wasn't just some rich guy who did bad things to women.
He was also an operative potentially of several intelligence organizations that had a big role in kingmaking in the United States.
Let me give an example.
Let me give an example that will tie in all of this.
Ghelain Maxwell did not recruit Jeffrey Epstein, was not his handler.
Jeffrey Epstein, between 1980 and 1984, was running guns with the CIA in Iran-Contra.
Part of that was with Stanley Pottinger, sharing an office with Stanley Pottinger.
Stanley Potter's business partner later was Bradley Edwards, who you've mentioned.
Bradley Edwards knew when he met Virginia Guffray for the first time in 2013-14, and they met for the first time.
Danley Pottinger called him at midnight.
And from that moment on, in Bradley Edwards' book, Relentless Pursuit, he says Pottinger was obviously CIA.
He was the Winston Wolf as a CIA.
Pottinger helped to cover up.
Martin Luther King assassination, literally stamped it off as no conspiracy.
He helped to cover up other things as well, really big cases, including Watergate interviewing the head of CIA himself.
This is a man who throughout history has been given the biggest cases by the CIA to sort out.
And he was given Epstein, the second Epstein case to sort out.
Him and Edwards together.
This is a conspiracy by the CIA to cover up Jeffrey Epstein's links to the American intelligence infrastructure.
And he had links all across the way.
He had links all across the board, internationally.
He was working for them all.
He was helping bring people like El Barak in to the intelligence operations, into tech funding, especially, because the science operation and the funding of the edge leads us background to this whole conversation and the fact that Musk,
even Musk himself, Bezos, Sergey Brin, Kalas Alakamanga, the heads of the social media and technocratic era in 2008 are all going through a Jeffrey Epstein-funded program and how to manipulate people by using their very large social media platforms.
Jeffrey Epstein's Multifaceted Influence00:00:35
Jeffrey Epstein was not one doing one thing.
He was not just blackmailing for children.
He was not just working for Israel.
He was not just this or that or the other.
Jeffrey Epstein had a thousand faces and no one will accept that.
And instead, if they concentrate on one or the other, it allows for everything else to fall apart.
And we're going to have to leave it at that point, folks.
You know the drill.
It is not about left or right.
It is always about right and wrong, especially in this case.
And you are definitely going to want to check out part two of this one.