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March 7, 2025 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
49:31
Super Spy Asks The Tough Questions About 9/11
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Welcome to Making Sense of the Madness.
We've got a great show lined up for you today.
We've got Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Schaefer off the heels of the Kurt Weldon interview.
We're going to go beyond able danger, 9-11, all the way into the Trump 2.0 administration.
Then we're going to wrap it up with Lee Wamskans of Patriot Mobile.
You're not going to want to miss it.
Buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
And we are back.
We are now joined by Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Schaefer.
Thank you so much for joining us.
You know, I was going through this earlier today trying to find it because we actually met, what was it, man, 15 years ago, I think it was?
Yeah, it's a long time, Jason.
A long time ago.
Here we are, actually, speaking at an event in 2010. I was in much better shape and had a lot less grays, as you can see.
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
It finally feels like we have a different kind of administration, that there might be some transparency, and that somehow, someway, at least some of the truth regarding 9-11 and other large-scale events is finally going to make its way into the public arena.
Now, on the heels of Kurt Weldon being on Jimmy Dore.
Where he was just a total firebrand and which got me to contact my producer and say, you know, we need to get him and Anthony Schaefer on.
You posted this and I was very excited about it.
Here's an interview on the Jimmy Dore Show with former Congressman Kurt Weldon.
More is coming regarding able danger and the disclosures regarding U.S. government wrongdoing.
So let's start with your background, what able danger was.
And what you think these disclosures are going to be and how they're going to come out to the public.
So, for a detailed background, they can go Google Lieutenant Colonel Tony Schaefer tribute, congressional tribute, my friend, dead, God rest his soul, Walter Jones, Congressman Jones, read my full career into the congressional record.
It's available, so I won't bother to go through everything.
Suffice it to say that I was a military case officer.
I was prior enlisted in the Army.
I was recruited into a special program.
I became an intelligence operative in the 80s.
Became a military case officer in 87. Worked at kind of the cutting edge of technology for the time from about 2000. I guess it was probably 1997-odd I was doing cutting-edge stuff to include running the first undercover cyber unit called Stratus Ivy.
That's the charter membership thing right there.
We did that.
We were the first ones to go.
We were a hybrid NSA, DIA, DOD special mission unit that did stuff on the Internet before they figured it out.
I can't go into much more detail than that at this point.
And then, as I was doing that, I got pulled into all sorts of other things that basically, Jason, nobody wanted to do because they considered them career-ending.
One of the notable features of the bureaucrats in the government is they're spineless.
They don't want to do anything.
So, you know, they like getting paid all that money.
Like we know, they all stay home if they can.
I wasn't of that mindset.
I like doing stuff, so I was always doing things.
They were always upset with me because I thought my job was to collect intelligence.
Imagine that.
You know, you guys are paying us to collect information.
We should be collecting information.
And that's where I got sideways a lot of the time with the bureaucracy.
Anyway, so one of the operations we were assigned that was very unpopular within DOD was Able Danger.
Able Danger was a hybrid organization slash task force that was supposed to examine the Al-Qaeda threat globally.
Basically, it was an operations order signed by Hugh Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs in 1999. Drafted, by the way, I found out later, by Colonel Joe Dunford, who eventually became chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Dunford.
And this operations order basically directed that the Special Operations Command...
Prepare for operations, lethal operations, against al-Qaeda.
I thought it was great.
It was off the books, off the way they talk about in the movies.
It was off the books.
So, Jason, what I've come to figure out, and I'm glad you showed that picture of us together back at that event at the church.
I think Colleen Rowley spoke at that as well.
Yep, absolutely.
When I sat there on the couch across from you, I could never have fathomed.
That our own government would have participated in the murder of American citizens.
It was beyond my ability to comprehend.
Since then, you've done some movies, I've done some learning and some review, and I'm now convinced, and maybe Kurt said this, maybe he didn't, we weren't supposed to find what we found as part of Able Danger because we were off the books.
Literally, one hand didn't know what the other hand was doing.
And so when we were told, go figure out Al-Qaeda, do a global mapping of it, we did that.
We did it in good faith.
They were the bad guys.
We're the good guys.
We're going to go track them down.
And we did it.
We had some amazing folks, amazing.
We were the first folks to use data mining as a targeting method.
We were the first ones to contemplate a series of options, which I can't go into, which...
We're hoping the Pentagon will release me.
This is what Kurt's talking about, and this is what I'm talking about, new information.
There's two things that I have to have the Pentagon declassify to talk about, which will literally change the way we perceive the operation.
But suffice it to say this, Jason.
After we do all this preparation, we do all this targeting, we get all of these targets ready for us to go attack, we get shut down in January of 2001. Why?
This has been one of the central mysteries that no one has been willing to address.
No one.
To include when we did hearings, when Kurt Weldon was pushing it, Kurt was pushing for answers on this.
We had open and closed hearings.
I've had conversations with others.
And so there's that mystery of why would you take a special mission unit that is fully armed, capable, had good intelligence.
Steve Cambone said in open hearings that the intelligence we developed...
This part of Able Danger was used by the Pentagon to use the initial strikes against Al-Qaeda after the attack.
So why didn't you do it before, right?
Am I missing something, Jason?
Am I missing something?
Because I don't know.
So let's just start, first of all, because I find, first of all...
One of the things that I included in my documentary is when you're up there in the hearings and you talk about the fact that you were no Boy Scout and you weren't hanging out in the Christian...
I'm not.
I'm no Boy Scout.
And you're not hanging out in the Christian science reading.
You can read about it in Dark Heart.
Yeah, I put it all out there.
So just saying.
So that being said, you know, when you talk about technology in the 90s that are part of these black programs, obviously now...
Over the years into 2025, I would assume some of the things that you were using then have now become, say, commercialized where they weren't available in the public arena.
Absolutely.
What is your perspective on that?
Because you come from a very unique place.
Because I can sit here and rattle off, hey, they have these white papers and they've talked about this technology and this program is there.
And let me just give like an example.
So when we talk about...
Spying on United States citizens, right?
A lot of people still go into the trope that Snowden revealed it.
No, we knew that Norris Insight Systems through Hepting vs.
AT&T essentially had server rooms where they cut everything off and it went directly to the NSA and this goes back to the 90s.
We know about software like Promise and Carnivore, Promise you can get into Robert Maxwell and down all sorts of little rabbit holes.
But these are the type of software and hardware tools that the NSA was utilizing all the way back in the 90s that, yes, it's kind of on the public record.
But when you look at Hepting versus AT&T, for instance, it was thrown out of court twice for national security reasons.
Do you think some of that technology aspects, now that it has been commercialized in some ways, is going to come out?
Or do you think they still want these plausible deniability trains?
Again, you have a very unique perspective compared to other people.
So, I'm going to answer this in two ways.
As someone who believes we should be spying, I'm a spy.
I've never said we shouldn't spy.
I'm saying we should spy against the bad guys.
And that's an issue.
And so, the best operations, Jason, are hidden in plain sight.
The best ones are like, you see something going on, it's like, no, that's nothing.
That's the best.
So, just say it.
Break, break!
A lot of the things that we developed and you refer to were taken by people who were essentially politicians in uniform.
Keith Alexander, for example.
I'll just say it.
Keith Alexander took the technology we developed as part of these black programs and did exactly what you just said.
He walked away with it.
Just took it out of NSA. Made it into his own company, which I still believe, and again, I'm on record here, saying Keith Alexander needs to be investigated for theft of public property.
Just saying.
So you're saying that essentially these people that are part of the program, as long as it's basically cleared by the military-industrial complex, they're the ones that get to, quote-unquote, privatize that technology.
And that's how it comes into the consumer arena.
And I would imagine if they didn't want that person to do that...
Well, it's worse.
Go ahead.
It's worse.
It's worse.
That's an aspect of it.
And Keith Alexander made a lot of money, but he eventually went bankrupt, just saying.
These guys may be thieves, but they're not smart necessarily.
They aren't related necessarily.
The other issue is what does one do if you're a political operative and you get this immensely effective technology?
Well, we saw some of that happen with Donald Trump in 2016-2017 regarding the Russia collusion narrative.
There are things about that operation we still haven't learned.
If you remember, Jason, I don't know if you remember, I was one of the first on the air on the 7th of March of 2017, 6th of March, with Pete Hexteth on the big comfy couch with my friend, the evil overlord I work for in the morning.
I do his show, Ed Henry.
And I said...
Trump was wiretapped.
Well, I didn't get into everything I knew because I just knew it was true.
So I've made other protected disclosures to members of Congress, to include my friend Louie Gohmert, who said basically, Tony, how did you not understand that they would take this stuff and use it against the American people?
And I was yelled at.
And I get it.
And I absolutely get it.
But, Jason, I'll say this for you and your audience.
A lot of us do this because we really do want to protect the American people and the United States.
It's hard for us to wrap our mind around the evil that exists that some of these people were taken and use this for domestic purposes.
So to answer your question, it's worse than you know.
Because they take this and they give it to political operatives.
They get it out to political parties.
And I think that's what Tulsi's going to come to find.
Tulsi Gabbard.
I've not talked to her, but I think she's going to come to find That a lot of capability was moved from the intelligence community into certain Democrat Party elements.
Well, I'm certainly hopeful with Tulsi.
She's been one of the better politicians.
And just because you mentioned Seth Rich, let's just go over a couple aspects of that.
Number one, we were supposed to get documentation on the 10th of this month.
The DOJ has now said they are not going to release that.
Instead, they're going to release a Vaughn index.
We'll see what comes out of that.
But as far as technology utilized by the intelligence community in the Seth Rich case, for instance, we have those recordings of Cy Hirsch, who we found out.
I love Cy.
I like a lot of Seymour Hirsch.
I mean, he intertwines with 9-11 in a lot of ways as well.
He's kind of questioned that, even been mentioned in some court cases.
Obviously, the Bin Laden raid wrote a very, very different narrative there.
But with Seth Rich...
He talked about, and apparently McCabe was his source, which is crazy on its surface, but again, that's another aspect.
He said that essentially when the D.C. police unit came into Seth Rich's home after the murder, they couldn't get into his computer.
Then they brought the FBI in.
And the FBI did have the tools to get into that computer.
And that kind of speaks to this aspect that there are software and hardware tools out there to retrieve information.
I had Nate Kane on this same program talking about these type of things.
And again, those are just the things that we don't know about.
When we're talking about not only 9-11, but Epstein, I mean, how much...
Is the FBI, the NSA, the CIA, what are they sitting on?
Is it just beyond comprehension?
Well, two things.
First, I'll use a corporate name which has already been kind of in the news for bad things, CrowdStrike.
CrowdStrike is an effective extension of both the FBI and the Democrat Party.
And I do mean that they're related.
If you recall, Jason, They gave the Hillary Clinton server, or they give an image of the server to CrowdStrike.
It's like, oh yeah, there's nothing to see here.
This whole Seth Rich thing, it's like, oh yeah, it was hacked.
It wasn't hacked.
Let's talk about that quickly.
I have basic knowledge.
Listen, I'm a beauty school dropout.
Okay, I'm a pizza guy, but I know how computers work.
I can also put one of those together.
I know I look stupid, but I understand data transfer rates and the difference between a hard drive and a USB and whether or not you're hacking something from overseas and transferring there.
Clearly, clearly, these are downloads through a hard device, full stop, and not a hack.
Go ahead.
Bill Benny and I said this publicly on Sean Hannity's show.
It's like, yeah, the Russians didn't do this.
We did it.
Someone here.
So, I mean, we've been saying...
Jason, I've been saying this for a decade.
And, you know, it's like...
This wasn't the Russians.
Well, again, when you look at that whole thing, and we talk about a lot of these things being interrelated, as soon as they said that Robert Mueller was going to be any part of this, I literally slapped my head and I said, do you not understand that Robert Mueller helped cover up 9-11, was brought in right after the attacks as the director, and you had whistleblowers within the FBI that...
What was it?
Vulgar Betrayal.
There's a whole other program where they were going after Yassi Khadi.
He personally stopped the FBI coming to testify on my behalf during Able Danger hearings.
I had specific, and let me hit this real quick.
I don't want to go into it because we could have a whole conversation about this.
My unit was supporting the FBI's effort to track 17 November, a terrorist organization in Athens, Greece.
I actually deployed forward, as did other members of DIA, to support the FBI effort.
And they were intimately involved in the knowledge of the Able Danger issue because they were out of the Washington Field Office, WFO. Also co-located at WFO was the Bin Laden unit.
So we were using our support to the Greek extraterritorial operation.
Let me get the term right.
The FBI was authorized to do extraterritorial operations, which is another...
Bureaucratic word for FBI spying overseas.
Just saying.
Not here to judge.
Just saying.
So I was part of that effort.
You know, I've talked about this before.
So we, DOD, and Congress wanted FBI to come and testify to what I just talked about and provide additional details.
Mueller himself shut it down.
Why would you do that?
Why would you do that?
Now, is that unit the same one with Robert Wright, Barry Carmody, and others?
No.
No, it's a totally separate unit.
So I also want people to think about that gravity.
How many people, after the fact, didn't come and speak out because they didn't want to become Robert Wright or Barry Carmody and become a paper pusher?
They wanted to keep their jobs.
It's extremely frightening.
You can check out more about Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Schaefer in Operation Dark Heart, the New York Times bestseller.
We're going to take a quick break.
When we come back, we're going to dive deeper into Able Danger and post 9-11.
More Making Sense of the Madness after this.
Hey everybody, Jason Burmus here.
And it's with somewhat of a heavy heart that I come to you with the news that Making Sense of the Madness is changing.
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Thank you so much.
And we are back.
So let's get into Able Danger and what you think is finally going to be revealed here.
There were certain things when I talked to Kurt Weldon that I thought I was kind of an expert.
Not only your relationship with him, but some of the things regarding that.
He revealed some things that I'd never heard that you and others in that program actually called him the day of 9-11, which, again, shocking.
I was not aware of that aspect of the story.
And he also says, you know, he's been talking not only...
I mean, he believes it's not a possibility that they had bin Laden in Iran and that was facilitated by Soleimani.
But he also kind of just casually mentioned that he believes now that at least two of the hijackers were directly on the CIA payroll.
Now, I have never gone that far.
You know, I've talked about Bayoumi for years.
I've talked about the fact that a couple of these guys were living with an FBI informant, Khalid Al-Madar and others.
A lot of them were trained on U.S. bases.
I've talked about the fact that even James Woods got on that plane, and it happened to be Flight 11 if you look at the court documents that got leaked through the Dark Overlord, in August.
And it's funny you mentioned Hirsch.
He went to the FBI with the pilot.
And the stewardess, and they named Ada and three of the other hijackers, think about that, in August, and nothing was done.
They thought they were going to case the plane, everybody.
He actually named a couple FBI agents and Hirsch that said, oh, that absolutely went up the command.
So you had these guys doing dry runs of hijackings prior, and somehow, some way, nothing was done.
I guess I just want to...
You said that you've kind of expanded your thinking on whether or not the U.S. could be involved in this.
But when you were looking at it at first, what were the units and how did that clash with the narrative?
Because another thing that really strikes me is if you, again, take James Woods' account, I think Al-Madar is on that plane too.
And Al-Madar and Atta are not supposed to be in the same cells or have ever met.
So I think there's a lot of muddying of the waters there as well.
Please.
Back when you and I first met, and I've still tried to do this, I tried not to contaminate my memory by getting too much into the other narratives.
You know what I'm saying?
It's like, I can reel things off because I've not become experts on other people's issues.
So that's why I always say, look, you guys may know all these other names and everything else in relationships.
I don't necessarily know what I say now and what I'm referring to, obviously.
It's others such as yourself have come up and linked these things independently.
So I refer to you guys.
You guys are the ones putting the pieces together, not me.
So with that said, though, based on what I've seen develop, this totalitarian...
I can't speak this morning.
The totality of what we're learning indicates to me that there are other things going on.
Now, you ask about Epstein and some other things.
Let me hit that before I go.
To this other thing I want to bring up regarding Catherine Herridge.
Because Catherine Herridge, in my judgment, is one of the best independent reporters out there.
She's never wrong.
Just saying.
And she came up with a couple things.
Let me go back to this thing.
Jason, what we're going to come to find is that people like Epstein had a deep and enduring relationship with the intelligence community.
He was up to no good.
And I think that's why James Comey is now under investigation for an off-the-books operation.
You mentioned Comey.
You mentioned Mueller.
My friend, Dr. Steve Hatfield, was almost framed over the anthrax.
Which was directly linked to 9-11 in the narrative.
And I want to remind people who was targeted.
You had a couple politicians that maybe weren't toeing the line, Tom Daschle.
You also had media outlets like the Inquirer that had done some work on bin Laden maybe they didn't want.
And essentially when you looked at the letters, it said death to America, death to Israel, 9-11 on them.
Then you get down to the base tactics of what was in this thing, and it's militarized.
It's linked to the United States.
And, oh, the administration is all on Cipro prior to 9-11.
Ari Fleischer admitted that in a press meeting.
Continue.
Yeah.
So, another point.
Another point to be examined.
So, that's what I'm saying.
There's just too many things.
You started with loose change.
You did with fabled enemies.
Jason, there's just too many things here that don't make sense if the United States and its entire government were working to try to prevent attacks and do the right thing.
So that's what I'm saying.
I think Epstein's part of that.
I think clearly Comey's part of it.
I think all these other guys are part of it, too.
Fast forward to back to 9-11.
So there's a guy in San Diego that becomes an asset of the FBI because he's a...
He's a Muslim guy that goes to prostitutes.
Ha!
Eddie, Eddie, Eddie, Eddie.
Well, hold on.
Ada was notorious.
In fact, Ada's girlfriend came out and gave interviews with Daniel Hopsiker.
Ada's girlfriend was a stripper and coke monkey.
And quite frankly, everybody...
That was interviewed in that circle just assumed that Ada and his cohorts were some kind of mafia and that they were drug dealers, etc.
But again, when you get into these kind of black operations, you get into drug dealing, you get into arms dealing, you get into women.
You know, that's the big secret with Epstein that I don't think people realize he's an arms dealer.
You have the Adnan Khashoggi connection.
I don't know if you caught it, but Louis Black was interviewed last year when the supposed dump was happening.
His one interaction with Epstein at the New York residence was he was brought in and Epstein took him in a separate room.
He had a whiteboard in front of him.
He says, hey, do you know what this is?
Louis Black has no idea.
He's like, these are defense systems.
These are weapons systems that I was discussing with the Israeli defense minister last night.
I mean, again, what do you think is going on here?
And that's the thing.
When you're talking about that, you're going beyond nation states, right?
And you are getting...
Go ahead.
So that's my point, is that I think that's why, I don't know this, but I think Pam Bondi had good intent.
It's like, we're going to release these files.
Like, okay.
So then some knucklehead in the FBI sits on him in New York.
And he's been sitting on him because he's part of this conglomerate that goes beyond the FBI. Remember the X-Files?
That was not fiction.
It's like, if you remember this, it's like, I tell people, it's like, You need to go back and re-watch The X-Files.
That whole, oh, at the time, I don't know if you remember that, the FBI, this is fiction, the FBI can't be that corrupt.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, it can be.
And the guy that got fired in New York was sitting on whatever they have.
So, fast forward to today, Pam Bondi probably ends up with 80 linear feet of documents showing that the FBI has been involved with Epstein.
It's like, oh!
Ho, ho, ho!
What does this mean?
So I think that's why all of a sudden this goes deeper than I think even the Trump folks understood.
That's what I'm telling you and others.
I think they're going to start knocking over things and they're going to come to find that some of these relationships go way deeper and are way more evil than anybody's acknowledged.
That's what we're going to come to find.
Now, I don't know what that's going to be.
I've seen this movie before, Jason, and I kind of know where it's all going to go.
But back on our issue of 9-11.
You had this radical cleric, or whatever you want to call him, the guy in San Diego.
He takes two of the 9-11 hijackers.
He runs them around the country.
He's an FBI asset.
Catherine Herridge reports on this, by the way.
Right after 9-11, this cleric was in the Pentagon lecturing in 2004 and 2005, having lunch at the Pentagon.
And the next thing you know, he's an enemy again.
And they kill him in Yemen when he decides to go over there as a U.S. citizen.
So you tell me, does that all make sense?
Does that make sense that we have a guy who the FBI wraps up, says, you've worked for us.
We're going to, you know, make you go and admit you were prostitutes.
He then is the guy who takes and escorts around two of the hijackers.
After 9-11, he's let go.
Nobody cares.
He goes to the Pentagon and lectures.
Next thing you know, he's off doing things in Yemen and we kill him.
Something's up with that.
That does not make any sense in any Hollywood script.
Well, let's just talk about that for a second, because even on a macro level, let's talk about some boogeymen out there.
Someone like Al Baghdadi, right?
He was caught at one point.
He was in U.S. and Israeli custody at one point.
You let him back, and all of a sudden, he's the daddy pants.
This new guy out in Syria, where they're able to overthrow that nation.
Same story.
We've had this guy.
He's al-Qaeda, al-Nusra.
As soon as he gets out, he hooks up with al-Baghdadi.
Al-Baghdadi gives him 60 grand and now he's there.
You can't tell me there's not some type of intel asset connection.
You know, one of the other names that we didn't mention is, you know, we talked about James Woods going to the authorities.
Deborah Albritton called the Central Intelligence Agency on Waleed al-Shari, her neighbor.
No one did anything.
No, I mean, you don't call the cops.
You don't call the state troopers.
You're going to the CIA and nothing's being done.
That's insanity.
So that's what I'm saying.
It's like there were a number of inconvenient truths, to quote Al Gore.
Our inconvenient truths count.
His doesn't, just saying.
But it's another story.
So in this case, though, Jason, we, going back to my story in Able Danger, we were off the books.
We were using advanced, unproven technology, data mining, using some very advanced linkage, parentage, and other software programs to pull things together.
Again, this is all in the 90s, never been done before, and we're just off doing stuff.
We're not tied to all these other things you're talking about, we had no idea.
I wasn't an Al-Qaeda guy.
You know, CIA and FBI all made cottage industries.
Of professional bureaucrats tracking these guys.
We weren't.
We were just told, hey, there's bad guys out there.
Go check it out.
Tell us what you find.
So we're like, okay.
So that's what I'm saying, Jason.
We weren't supposed to figure this out.
We weren't supposed to figure out that the guys were here, that through our independent, unlinked in to anything else effort, discovered they were here.
And we discovered that Bahimi and all these other guys...
We had direct links to the Al-Qaeda leadership that we figured out on our own.
We didn't use CIA's information or FBI's information.
We went and got data from NSA directly, raw intercepts, which people were still pissed about that we got a hold of it, just saying.
We took their data, put it into a database we were using, and made these things independently.
So and by the way, people tend to forget we weren't an intelligence operation.
Able Danger was a strike group.
They don't like me saying this because it's like, no, no, no.
Our job is to kill people.
We weren't doing this to put together nice charts.
This was to do something.
This was something called a Title 10 operation, not Title 50.
Title 50 is tradition is is the thing CIA does.
Title 10 is what the best way to remember Title 10.
Is it anything George Washington did with the Continental Army, we can still do.
Just saying.
So Title 10 gives us a lot more authority.
We don't have to do coordination with George Tenet because we would just brief him on stuff.
We're getting into the weeds here, but it's important.
Anyway, my point being is that we were independent from the intelligence community.
We were focused on doing things for the purposes of lethal strikes.
And we were outside the system.
So all this other stuff we weren't involved in, we didn't know about, and that's what makes it bad for us.
Because when the 9-11 Commission shows up to do their report, Jason, John Lehman, Jamie Gorelick, they were all supposed to do a narrative explaining it all away, that it couldn't have been prevented.
These are not the terrorists you're looking for.
Nothing to see here.
And then we start popping up saying, no!
We knew they were here.
We had the capability to kill them.
And then that's why we became an inconvenient truth to their narrative.
You know, that kind of almost brings us into Zelikow, and there's still a media narrator today as the, well, I don't even know what to call it, but the Independent Commission on COVID-1984 was also headed up by Zelikow, I would say with a similar agenda to kind of massage the truth and sell a false narrative surrounding that.
We've got to take a break in a moment, but I am curious.
You know, if this was a unit, That could utilize lethal force.
What does something like that look like?
Like, while you're doing that, I mean, again, I'm sure there's certain things you can't talk about, but you kind of mentioned that you don't have to get approval from someone like Tenet, for those that don't know, that was the head of the CIA at the time.
Right.
You know, we've all seen the movies.
We've all 007'd it, you know, etc., etc.
But if you're actually part of that unit, And you have this wide berth.
Is that something that you contract out?
Is that something that's done directly?
No, I can explain that a little bit if you want.
Yeah, please.
Well, you know what?
Let's take the break, and then we'll find out black ops style from Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Schaefer.
This is our final segment with him.
You're not going to want to miss it.
This has been an excellent episode.
More Making Sense of the Madness after this.
Hey, everybody.
Jason Burmus here, and it's with somewhat of a heavy heart that I come to you with the news that Making Sense of the Madness is changing.
And will hopefully be staying alive in some form.
If you followed my work, you know that I've always said I am extremely lucky whenever I have a paid gig.
Well, after three years, I no longer have any paid gigs.
So when you look at Making Sense of the Madness, the format is going to change where you're going to be able to watch a more commentary-driven show live.
On my socials, YouTube, Rumble, Rockfin, and X first, and live, and then it will be carried by Patriot.tv.
Now, unfortunately, this is going to mean that some of the very high-caliber guests that I've gotten in the past will no longer be joining us, and once again, the format is changing.
We are hoping!
That there is somebody out there that wants to sponsor the show and bring it back until its full form.
But until then, please consider the links down below if you're watching this live or over on my socials.
Thank you so much.
And we are back.
By the way, you can follow him at TSSpooky over on X, but you got to put underscores after each and every single letter until you get to the Y. It is a good follow.
So, all right.
This is another aspect of able danger I'm not really aware of.
That essentially, if you need to use lethal force, you can.
How does something like that operate?
All right, so I've covered a good bit of it in Dark Heart.
So if you want to get it, so basically, I'm trying to think of the best way to describe it.
So a movie I'll refer to that you guys can check out, where some of this is demonstrated, where you have the black side and the white side working together, is Black Hawk Down.
Mark Bowden.
I love Mark.
Great, great author.
Great movie.
You kind of see the edges I'm talking about.
There's military operations that we can do overseas.
I mentioned Title X. Title X, as I mentioned, is called traditional military activities, TMA. TMA permits the military to act.
Remember, this is what George Bush used when he said he could use warrantless wiretapping.
NSA National Security Agency is a Title 10 and Title 50 organization.
It's both.
It actually sits in DOD but supports the intelligence community.
So that's where Bush had that authority.
So Title 10 permits the military to essentially establish via operations orders and operations plans options for executing lethal operations, a spectrum from Small unit activities to major strikes using aircraft and everything else.
That's what Title X is.
And these things exist.
We talk about them all the time.
These are essentially operations orders.
These are what the PACOM, UCOM, this is what they all revolve around, is operations plans.
We tie these things to operations plans, which will be permitted to be used if the president directs military force be used.
That's how this all works.
Now, I know you have extensive experience overseas in the Middle East, post 9-11, etc., When we talk about Pakistan, obviously the bin Laden raid and that narrative, we know that General Mahmoud Ahmed wires that $100,000 to ADA.
There seems to be a direct connection there, but it's also through a guy named Omar Saeed Sheikh.
And Omar Saeed Sheikh gets pinned for the Daniel Pearl murder, the initial beheading that, again, talk about media narratives and fear, especially at that time.
That was a new thing.
He gets convicted.
He gets it overturned.
He's currently in a safe house in Britain.
The head of the Pakistani NSA, Mahmoud, is in D.C. the week of 9-11.
On the morning of 9-11, he's meeting with Bob Graham and Porter Goss, the guys that head up the congressional investigation.
Goss ends up as the head of the CIA. He's meeting with Biden, Tenet, Rice, etc.
Now, we know during the Cold War and when bin Laden was our ally through the Mujahideen, etc., Muslim Brotherhood times, that there was a vast connection between U.S., British, and Pakistani intelligence at that time, that network.
No doubt.
How does that extend through the years?
And now looking at that, and especially the fact that, again, this guy, Omar Saeed Sheikh, isn't even in jail right now.
I mean, he was also the guy that was named by Benazir Bhutto before she was assassinated as the guy who killed bin Laden.
This was pre-raid.
Who knows what narratives are real?
But this is spook central.
I think that Peter Lance, in his book Triple Cross...
Highlighted Omar Saeed Sheikh in all this.
What are your thoughts?
He did.
Yeah.
Well, Peter's reporting is extraordinarily accurate.
I believe he gets everything right.
And he's written some things about Darkheart as well.
He wrote something called The Private War of Anthony Schaefer.
So he's been tracking all this as kind of a set.
And yeah, I think there's something to that.
Remember, the other notable feature of that time and those linkages is, again, we were outside of it.
We, the military, our little unit, we had nothing to do with any of that stuff.
We were just trying to figure out how do we kill people.
To be blunt, that's kind of our job.
So when all these other political relationships came up, we weren't in that.
Would I go over and brief George Tenet on stuff?
Yeah, I briefed Tenet on what we were doing regarding operational planning.
And I admit, I've publicly acknowledged this.
I saw Tenet about every...
Six months to brief him on what we were doing.
Not asking for permission, but briefing him.
We were notifying him, which caused another whole other set of controversies, which I don't have time to get into today.
But suffice it to say, George Tenet and his staff weren't happy about us just telling him what we're going to do.
Just saying.
So that's a whole different set.
But you mentioned Porter Goss and some of these other guys.
You have to start asking, why were they involved and knowledgeable of some of this stuff?
Remember, Condoleezza Rice said, we could not contemplate what they did.
Well, yeah, we did contemplate it, Jason.
We were looking at different things they would do.
They had a war game over the summer with bin Laden on the cover called Vigilant Guardian.
In fact, that first conversation that we had, I kind of brought that up.
And how...
That war game, for those that don't know, in that war game there were hijackings of planes, but there was also drone warfare.
There were red teams, blue teams, all sorts of surveillance.
Maybe some of the type of stuff that you may have been utilizing technology-wise.
And my question was, now that you're saying that two of these guys were on the CIA, is it possible that some of these guys thought they were leading a black ops team in a drill?
We know that there were a ton of drills on 9-11 itself.
But to say it was a failure of the imagination, they had the guy they blamed on the cover of this thing, and they had the Capitol building with a trail of a hijacked aircraft out of Alaska, an American state, into the building.
That's in July.
Of that year.
So you can't tell me that they didn't imagine that.
And then you get to the fact that you have all these other drills on the morning of 9-11, that if you listen to the NORAD tapes, and here's another thing.
When you listen to those NORAD tapes, a lot of people don't realize the National Reconnaissance Office was a secret for like 20 years.
Like people don't think that the military could keep secrets.
They didn't even acknowledge that.
And then we were the first ones to get the tapes.
No, they had to call into Cheyenne Mountain.
And they weren't able to stop the drills until 20 minutes after whatever happened with United 93 and Pennsylvania.
So these things went on through the attack.
Even in the 9-11 Commission hearings, you had Richard Myers and others acknowledging quote-unquote phantoms.
We fought many phantoms that day.
And then you have the curious case of United 23 where it seems like guys got on a plane to hijack it and then got off the plane and they went into their luggage and lo and behold, they got the same thing that Anna and the gang have in them.
And we hear nothing about that either.
When you look at that type of stuff, what do you think?
Well, a couple things.
First, regarding that day, I mean, clearly there were a lot of things going on.
And I think that's one of the reasons I think they picked that day for the attack, Jason.
Why would you, if you're, speculation, which I rarely do.
If you're going to pick a day for an attack, wouldn't you pick it on a day where exercises are already ongoing to confuse the issue?
Just saying.
And then I think there were more than the four.
I think there was probably 10 aircraft that they had lined up.
And somehow, again, both sides, there was competing efforts here.
Some guys, I'd like to believe I'm on the right side of history.
Some guys were trying to stop it.
We were like, we want to kill these guys.
They're up to no good.
Others were committed to allowing it to happen, as those two things were in conflict.
And the 9-11 commission, John Lehman told me to my face that everybody on that commission was covering up for somebody.
Just saying.
He said that to me.
So if all of this is true, then yeah, we have to ask some really hard questions.
You know, Max Cleland was on that commission, and he went on Wolf Blitzer, and he just said, no, I'm out.
They want to give some of the people here some of the documents.
He goes, I want all the documents.
That doesn't even get in to the Sandy Berger scandal, etc.
We've only got...
Sandy Berger, I don't know if Kurt's told you, Sandy Berger took the Able Danger-related data out of the National Archives.
To stop any acknowledgement that we were tracking these guys.
General Hugh Shelton was part of what they called the small group, which was a group of national security advisors to President Clinton that was knowledgeable of what we were doing, and they actually put it in a paper saying that we were now tracking independently al-Qaeda and what was going on.
Well, that's what Sandy took out, put it in his socks or underwear.
I don't know which it was, just saying.
But he put it in something.
Got it out and destroyed it.
Yeah.
And by the way, they gave him a little strap on, oh my, shame on you.
You don't get your clearance for six months.
Shame on you.
But that's the same, you know, and I bring this point up in this final, like, minute and a half of the broadcast.
It's the same thing with Iran-Contra, right?
That's the last time we've had real criminal accountability for these black networks that involve drugs.
Guns.
And you look at that again.
It was Israel who was buying the guns from Czechoslovakia, other Eastern European nations, sending them down.
These are the international intelligence ops of plausible deniability.
They make it about a few guys.
A lot of them get pardoned and commuted.
And the main guy, main guy, Oliver North, no offense, but he gets book deals, radio shows, and becomes a millionaire.
That's not how you discourage that behavior, Colonel Schaefer.
Final minute of the broadcast.
We've got to do it again with less time constraints because I could talk to you forever.
I'm hoping to see not only the RFK, MLK, JFK, I'm hoping we're going to get 9-11 stuff.
In this final minute, what would you like to leave the audience with and how can they support you?
Let me be very clear on this, Jason.
I'm not against doing the hard work of espionage and spying.
I've devoted my life to being a spy.
I'd like to believe I'm pretty good since my Bond moment was in the spy museum, just saying.
With that said, This is going to sound weird.
You've got to have ethics to lie, cheat, steal, and kill for your country.
You've got to do it ethically.
I know it sounds like a total contradiction, but you've got to know why you're doing what you do.
Just saying.
And my problem is, we've had people who were in our ranks who decided, yeah, we're going to use this to politically and financially benefit.
And I think that's wrong.
So we need, if we don't spy...
We're losing access to critical information that bad guys are going to have.
So for us to not do it is not the right answer.
But we have to be ethical.
We have to understand who we work for, the American people.
I used to have a rule, real quick.
I had a 60-minute rule.
When I was running an operation, I would do my own self-validation.
This is how I did it.
I would always ask myself, if Mike Wallace from 60 Minutes showed up and started asking me questions about what I was doing, Could I answer the questions honestly and still look good?
I think it's valid.
Yeah, we're doing this for X. And then my second validation is, would John Q. Sixpack in Minot, North Dakota, would he want his taxpayer dollars to go to what I'm doing?
That's it.
If I could answer yes to both those questions, I consider who I was doing to be righteous.
That's it.
Well, we don't have people who think like that, unfortunately.
Anthony Schaefer.
A pleasure.
ProjectSentinel.com is where you can find out more.
We're going to take a break.
Final segment of the show after this.
Folks, what an episode.
We're going to end it right there.
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