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Sept. 30, 2023 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
59:43
Trumps Trials And Mandate Mania With R. Davis Younts And Michael Hichborn | MSOM Ep. 832

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Primary Season Verdict 00:14:39
Welcome to Making Sense of the Madness.
Today we're going to be talking about the trials and tribulations of Donald Trump with Davis Younce.
And we've got Michael Hitchbourne to discuss the return of the COVID-19 44 nightmare and how to fight back.
buckle up and get ready to make sense of the madness.
Now it's with great dismay that I have emphasized time and time again over the last several years that if Donald Trump tried to run for president again, they would indeed try to incarcerate him and possibly succeed.
And I'm preparing myself for the first time in history for a former president to go to jail, in my opinion, for not committing enough war crimes and daring to question and name the military-industrial complex and the media Muppets that go along with them.
And now we have more emphasis on them trying to rig the game.
We now have an attempt to put a gag order and silence Trump on his January 6th fiasco, where we've already seen an extravagant show trial with a Hollyweird producer at the helm with no end date and no real opposition, with a narrative that an insurrection took place, giving people who were waived into the Capitol committed no violence 15 years and more.
In the case of Tario, we now have 22 years for not even being there.
And that's not all.
We have people calling for the idea that the Supreme Court will need to rule on whether or not Trump will be fit to run for the presidency.
In fact, if they get him on this espionage charge, this insurrection charge, which is completely and totally fabricated.
Roll that in with several other indictments, and we've got a lot to talk about with our next guest, Davis Younce.
Davis, thank you so much for joining us.
What are your thoughts on these latest developments, especially with the gag order?
Yeah, you know, I think that the gag order is particularly troubling in that case because we're talking about a case where there has been no counter narrative to what's been put out on mainstream media as to what happened.
So unfortunately, that creates a grave concern.
And we have to look at this in context.
First of all, we should already be concerned on whether or not somebody like President Donald Trump can get a fair jury in the DC circuit that he's in.
Will he even be able to get a fair jury?
Will he be able to get a fair hearing in front of the judge that's handling this case?
And then when you layer onto that a gag order, you already have a tainted jury pool, right?
So as an attorney, I try a lot of cases and we do pay attention to the rules of professional ethics when it comes to, you know, potentially tainting a jury pool.
And the problem is the jury pool is already tainted.
And now Trump and his defense team do not have an ability to counteract the false narrative that's already out there.
So it's deeply troubling.
Absolutely.
And I think this is just the beginning.
We've already seen Giuliani found guilty without really a trial.
We've seen them put Navarro in jail for something that was clearly the executive privilege of the president talking to an advisor.
I don't know that this ends well.
I mean, we can get into the Georgia case, but let's specifically talk about the DC case because the DC case seems the most troubling, as you said, and could weigh in on whether or not he could indeed run.
In fact, the media is already kind of parroting this narrative that he will be found guilty as an insurrectionist, and therefore the Supreme Court needs to rule whether or not he's eligible.
Right, that's absolutely right.
So of all the cases that are out there, this is the one that comes the closest to invoking what's called clause three of the 14th Amendment.
That was passed after the Civil War, and it was part of what was called the Insurrection Acts.
The whole idea was someone who was holding office and who participated in a rebellion or a violent insurrection against the country as an office holder could not then be eligible to run.
So that's the idea.
So when you look at states, Colorado, California, the state of Washington, they're already coming forward.
They're already trying to bring litigation to say, you know, Trump participated in an insurrection, therefore he is not eligible to run.
If he is convicted in this DC court, while insurrection is not in the dictionary and indictment, those words aren't in the indictment.
I think it would be a definite tool that they would try to use to say, hey, this proves he was involved with interfering with the democratic process and therefore participated in an attempt to overthrow the government in some way.
Now, you talked about D.C. as a venue.
It must be alarming to you that now we have all of these different rulings on the Proud Boys.
And no matter what you think about that organization, it is clear that they did not commit the crimes in which they were charged and that it was a farce that they got a fair trial in that venue.
I continue to say their best hope is for appeal, but appeal at a change of venue outside of the state.
And as you know, that could take years at this point.
Many of them already spending years in prison, sometimes in solitary confinement for things that you would normally get a ticket for and be let on your way.
So when you do have that stacked against Trump, when you know the machine is after him, what do you think the likelihood is, not only in this case, but overall, that they actually put him in prison?
And what does the country look like after that?
Because when I talked to Roger Stone about this many months ago, probably about eight, nine months ago, he said, well, if he's convicted, he can still run from jail.
There's nothing saying that a felon can't be on the ticket.
But we don't live in normal times, Davis.
No, we absolutely don't live in normal times.
And part of the problem that we have to just recognize as we move forward as a nation is that sometimes the process is the punishment.
What do I mean by that?
You know, people say, well, you know, went to trial and I was innocent, but I was acquitted.
Great.
The problem is, what did the legal fees cost you?
What did it do to your life?
How did it destroy your reputation?
And what is the process?
So right now, we are seeing the lives of many, many people being destroyed over what happened on January 6th.
And again, there's a whole lot of unanswered questions about what actually happened.
And we have to ask the question, why are 80-year-old women being put in federal prison over walking around inside the Capitol for 10 minutes when they walk through open doors and there were security guards moving gates for them?
Again, we can talk a lot about who did right and wrong on that day, but we have to understand where prosecutorial discretion comes in and that the, you know, the process is the punishment.
Just look at what's happening to the people in the Georgia case in particular.
And not to go off on that, but understand that the individuals involved in that, Trump and his co-defendants are looking at between a half a million dollars and a million dollars of legal fees.
And some of the people that were charged in that case are attorneys who were representing President Trump as he was trying to go through the legal process of challenging an election.
So now, not only are we taking people who would not be punished unless the federal government is involved, or if it was handled at the state or local level, we're looking at nuisance, disorderly conduct, trespassing, fines, right?
Low-level misdemeanor or summary offenses.
Now we're turning these into federal crimes, we're turning into conspiracies.
And worse, we're going after the attorneys.
And so now you're creating a situation where not only we're using process as punishment, but we're also discouraging attorneys from stepping forward and representing these individuals.
Because who's to say that a rogue, you know, Soros-funded elected prosecutor isn't going to then go after and persecute attorneys that represent individuals in these cases, whether it's D.C., New York, or Georgia.
Well, who's to say they're doing it?
I mean, it's right in your face.
And we will absolutely get to that.
But I want to make the point that Trump may not even be able to make his case.
You know, you talked about what happened on January 6th.
I'm seeing headlines again that Trump is making the claim that he said he wanted 10,000 soldiers at the scene.
That's not a claim.
We've known this from the very beginning that he requested 10,000 National Guard on the scene.
The evidence is in the public arena that Nancy Pelosi denied that request.
We've had several eyewitnesses at the highest levels of law enforcement discuss those discussions that took place.
Yet there's a very real, not possibility in my opinion, but probability that that evidence won't even be allowed to be presented in his case.
What are your thoughts?
Yeah, I share that concern.
And again, we have to look at the judge.
This is an Obama-appointed judge in the DC case.
She has strong family ties to the Communist Party of the Bahamas.
Her father and grandfather were communists.
And so we know there's a political agenda there.
We know where loyalties lie as far as that goes.
So this judge is someone who should come under extreme scrutiny when we look at the pretrial rulings.
And again, as an attorney, I deal with this all the time.
A judge can really shape a case fairly or unfairly by what evidence is allowed to come in and be presented to a jury.
And again, Trump has an uphill battle if it's going to be extremely unlikely that anyone that voted for him or would even consider voting for him is going to end up on a DC jury.
So that's a huge problem he faces as well.
Wrapping up on the DC case, let's talk about the timeline that we're seeing in this case.
I'm not seeing, obviously, Trump's attorneys have presented evidence that they say is stacked higher than the Washington Monument.
And I honestly do believe that.
They're not going to give them more time.
Obviously, this case is going to be fast-tracked.
So, in your opinion, when do you think the trial will begin?
And when do you think we'll have a verdict?
Because my prediction is we'll probably see a verdict right around primary season if these people get their way to kind of ensure at least just an initial and then less controversy of not allowing him to be on that ticket.
Well, the judge is pushing to schedule the case to start the day before Super Tuesday during primary season.
So we talk about scheduling during primary season.
Absolutely.
The judge is trying to schedule the case to have it start the Monday before the Super Tuesday primary.
So absolutely, that's a huge issue.
And what's troubling is in ruling on defense requests to have the case scheduled in 2025 in order to give them time to prepare and put it past the primary season, past election season, the judge said, well, you know, personal things shouldn't interfere with going to trial.
That's absurd.
Things happen all the time.
Cases get delayed all the time for appropriate reasons, particularly where the defense team or the defendant says, if we go to trial, then I will not have time to adequately prepare, which is what they have said.
And any judge would be perfectly within reason within law, with principles of fairness and justice to say, look, yeah, the primary season is a big deal.
And we don't want this to, we don't want the primary season to interfere with a fair trial.
So we will take that into consideration.
We will take those dates into consideration.
And so far, this judge has not done that.
So that is absolutely one of the concerns I think we have to pay very careful attention to.
Now, before we go to break, do you also think that the possibility of another one of these indictments taking place within that same time period, maybe doubling up?
Absolutely.
The judges are already looking to do that.
That's what the prosecution is pushing for as far as scheduling goes.
You know, initially, one of the dates for these cases was the day before the Iowa caucus, right?
So they're already pushing hard to make these dates very, very difficult and then pretending as if primary season or other things that are happening should have nothing to do with this.
But if the goal isn't to ensure he has a fair, full trial, then we should be skeptical of the scheduling.
Absolutely.
We've got to take a break when we come back.
I want to talk Georgia and beyond.
You can find everything you need to know about Davis Younce over at youncelaw.com.
We'll be back after this.
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What should people know about that whole blowup with Project Harry Tutt?
I read a few people wrong, and that's my fault, but I learned from that.
And I think I'll be a more effective messenger as a result of that.
That'll free me up to do the next chapter, the next stage of my evolution, which is OMG, which is decentralizing journalism.
And sometimes things happen for a reason.
That's my goal.
That's my mission.
And I didn't ask for that, Lincoln.
I never thought that would be my mission.
It just has become my mission.
And I'm excited about it.
Deals and Dangerous Precedents 00:15:54
We are back.
And the media has already framed this up as Trump is a danger.
Trump is the next Hitler if he wasn't the first Hitler.
I mean, they've really taken it that far.
They've talked about white supremacy being his base and the worst domestic terrorist threat.
You have Joe Biden in his dementia-ridden state talking about quote-unquote MAGA Republicans.
And of course, the Huffington Post is already framing it as much of the media.
They're saying, hey, he's an insurrectionist.
He's going to be found guilty.
We need the Supreme Court to weigh in right now and not allow his coup attempt.
There was no coup attempt, folks.
He was in an effort not to overturn an election, but to audit one fairly that reeked of corruption on a level that we have never seen.
Meanwhile, I am seeing some celebrations within the conservative media, and I'm not exactly sure why.
Perhaps Davis can give us some insight that a couple of these cases in Georgia have been ruled on to be held separately.
Now, as I understand this, you not only have these indictments that are forward, but you have 30 other indictments.
You have a RICO case.
And in my opinion, I think you're going to have an effort to try to find more crimes by cutting deals with people who are in these cases.
So, first of all, what do you think on the ruling?
And secondly, what do you think of these other 30 people and the possibility of more crimes coming out of this RICO case?
Right.
So, the first thing we have to do is just look at RICO cases, right?
These are designed to lump people into some sort of a formal organization.
And the goal, they were started with the idea of taking down the mob, right?
So, you get the driver, you get the bagman, and then you turn them, and then you call everything that happened a conspiracy.
So, then you can get the mob bosses.
That's what they're trying to turn this into in Georgia.
They're using this racketeering statute to do that.
So, absolutely, what they will do is bring as many individual defendants into the case as possible, and then they'll try to attribute anything any individual did to someone else, right?
So, you know, for example, they will try to say, well, this individual, you know, didn't have authorization to take custody of voter data or, you know, voting data from a hard drive.
And they'll say, well, that they didn't have authorization.
That was illegal.
So, everyone's responsible for that one decision made by one or two people involved in the case.
So, that's the framing that they're trying to do.
We have to understand it from that point.
And then we can look at other things that are happening.
We'll say, okay, two defendants, so Sidney Powell, an attorney, and then another co-defendant in the case are scheduling their trial for October because they demanded a speedy trial.
And the judge has allowed them to be split off.
That's interesting.
You know, I would be more concerned about people cutting a deal if the DA had not opposed it, but the DA actually opposed it.
So, so far in the Georgia case, there isn't a strong indication that anyone has cut a deal, unlike some of the other cases.
If you look at the Mar-a-Lago, the classified documents case, there's every indication a couple of the co-defendants in that case are cutting deals, and that's why you see obstruction charges.
But the thing to monitor in Georgia, from my perspective, is have they cut a deal with anyone and what individual acts are they trying to say were illegal, and then they can try to turn that conspiracy.
But even if they try to do that, what's critical, we have to take a step back.
You don't hear this on most media outlets, is what is what is the object of the conspiracy?
The object of the conspiracy has to be something unlawful.
In other words, the DA in the Georgia case has to prove that their intent was to unlawfully interfere with an election.
If the defense can prove that they had a good faith basis to believe the election was stolen, that there was things going on that were improper with regard to the election, then they've demonstrated they didn't have criminal intent.
And that's what's so interesting about bringing attorneys into the case.
You know, they may have bitten off more than they can swallow.
This does give Trump's defense team and the other defense teams to say, here's why we believe there were irregularities in Georgia.
Here were our legitimate concerns.
Here is that evidence.
And our intent was to use all the legal processes that were available to us within the law to contest this election.
So it's going to be very, very interesting.
It's going to be a huge question of timing and whether or not they are allowed to present a full and fair case.
Well, I don't think they're going to be able to present that full and fair case.
And that's my biggest fear of this whole thing.
I mean, when this first started initially, I looked at the New York case.
Obviously, that is the thinnest of all cases, was basically hyped up for years, even before the 2020 election.
So, you know, there wasn't much there, and there really isn't a lot of, I guess, criminal repercussions if he was to be found guilty on that case.
So, you're not that worried about it.
But then, you know, other indictments are coming.
And I thought that the Georgia case wouldn't have teeth either, but with that RICO case against everybody and other defendants, like you said, cutting deals, it's really a wildcard, in my opinion.
You discussed the Florida case, and we haven't discussed that yet.
In my opinion, the Florida case, obviously, the president had the right to take those documents.
He took them with the help of government entities to a secure location, just like any other president has done in the past.
However, they put up roadblocks to try to set him up.
They then did set him up and acted as though he wasn't supposed to have those documents.
At the same time, we get this story about Joe Biden as a vice president who would not have the right to declassify and take documents with him to have documents in a much less secure location.
And that's on the back burner.
We fast-track this case.
My fear is they set a precedent with this case, with the Espionage Act, in order to say if they do find Trump guilty, later on, they can get Biden to step down and say, well, we didn't want to do this twice.
And the country's gone through so much and he wasn't as defiant as Trump.
So we'll just let him off and he can go and we won't try it, but he's got to step down as the presidency.
Is that a likely scenario?
And right now, with the deals that you think have been cut in the Florida case, how dangerous is that case for Trump?
You know, it has become more dangerous because of the deals that they've cut.
So again, framing this appropriately, you're right.
This is about the Espionage Act.
It's unprecedented to go after a sitting, you know, a former president of the United States or a former government official under the Espionage Act for just simply mishandling classified documents.
We don't do that.
That Espionage Act was created during World War I, during the Woodrow Wilson administration, to go after threats to the United States and sharing of secrets with foreign countries.
That's not what's going on here.
Normally, presidential documents are covered by the Presidential Records Act, which is a newer statute that has no criminal provisions.
It just says, hey, we need to preserve these things because of their historical significance for purposes of the National Archives.
I could see a scenario in the Florida case where a judge throws out the charges and says, you know, the Espionage Act was never intended to cover this.
However, if there's obstruction or false statement charges, those are always sort of a back-end way for a prosecutor to catch someone.
We've seen that over and over and over again by federal prosecutors that are aggressive, that are going outside the bounds of normal.
They get you caught up in a case.
And then because of the federal guidelines, because the codendants are facing years in prison, they'll cut a deal and say, yes, he told me to do this in order to interfere with the investigation.
And all of a sudden, where there was no crime and there should never have been an investigation, there's a danger of a conviction.
I mean, it's exactly what they did in the Russiagate hoax.
They went after them on this expansive witch hunt and basically made up crimes.
And then because these people dared to testify in good faith, found them on obstruction charges and put people in jail.
And unfortunately, I think that's where this is headed.
So what would be your advice to the Trump lawyers handling these cases one by one?
What should they be doing?
And then what's the likely outcome once they institute these methods?
Yeah, you know, the first thing I would say is what they are doing is, you know, to some extent, as an attorney for him, you have to set aside the election and you have to say, okay, how do we win this case?
How do we get all of the facts before them?
And so there should be reasonable delays and very exhaustive and extensive discovery to do this.
The biggest challenge he's going to face in DC, in Fulton County, Georgia, and in Manhattan is getting a fair jury.
So there's going to be a lot of effort and emphasis that's going to have to be put into pre-trial litigation to do that.
I would be filing multiple motions to change the venue in those cases.
I would be filing multiple pretrial motions to try to get expansive jury selection to be able to get questionnaires to those jurors.
I mean, treat it like a capital case.
Do that kind of in-depth jury selection to even get a fair shot.
I would look very carefully at challenging judges, challenging the fairness of the judges that are sitting on those cases, particularly in the DC courts.
But again, I think it is important within the bounds of professional ethics to try this case in the public.
And so to the extent the judges don't allow them to do that, that's going to have a huge hindrance because there's a lot of work that needs to be done to make sure people understand this.
And with the Georgia case in particular, there is a scenario where this backfires on the Soros-Back DA that's bringing this case and on those that are behind this.
Because if truth starts to come out through the discovery process about what actually happened in the Georgia election and why Trump and his team believe there were irregularities and election fraud, then that's big news.
That's going to get a lot of people asking questions.
So it is an interesting thing that that's where they've tried to go after this because I do think there's evidence of fraud in Fulton County, Georgia that has to be looked at.
And I think there was a lot of fraud in other places as well, but I think there was egregious fraud there.
So let's look at the worst case scenario.
Let's say they do find him guilty and they actually put Trump in prison.
Obviously, we have the appellate process, but how expedited do you expect that to be?
Some of these charges hold massive amounts of prison time, literally trying to put this guy in his grave behind bars.
I mean, first of all, what are your thoughts as a human being if we do find this guy guilty?
And what does our country look like?
And then what is the process for him after the fact to try to seek justice in the appellate court?
Well, you know, just first, as a voter, as an American citizen, as a retired military officer, I'm terrified by the precedent that this kind of political prosecution sets.
But, you know, we missed it.
In 2014, Soros and Obama went on an effort to win County DA's elections, right?
They've dumped millions and millions of dollars into these local DA elections.
And we hear about Soros-funded prosecutors, but I don't think many in the conservative movement really understood how dangerous that precedent was and why that was being done.
Because in our legal system, as a nation, we give a tremendous amount of discretion to prosecutors to bring cases.
And again, process as punishment.
That's the precedent we're setting here.
And I fear what that looks like because now it is targeting political opponents.
That's why this is being done.
And to get to the human side of it, we're looking at a grandfather who has served his nation as president, who is nonviolent, who on January 6th was calling for people to be peaceful and to do the right things.
And we're going to lock that person in a cage, you know, like some kind of an animal because they're that dangerous.
Even at his age, it does not make sense.
That kind of incarceration doesn't make sense.
If we could just take his name out of it, we wouldn't be doing that.
And the problem with the appeals process as we look into that, you're talking years and years and years and millions of dollars in attorneys' fees in order to fight this.
And again, what's going to happen?
Is he going to run for office from prison?
Is it going to take Supreme Court intervention?
What does that look like?
We don't know because some of this is unprecedented, but it's very dangerous.
It's extremely dangerous.
And quite frankly, I don't know if that's the final nail in the coffin of this constitutional republic.
If he is convicted and we do have some type of an appeals process, do you even think there's a hope of him getting out?
Again, it depends on what case we're looking at.
You know, like the Mar-a-Lago case, for example, I think there's very weak things about that way that's being pursued when we look at that case, other than the obstruction charges.
When we look at the DC case, you know, the way it's being charged, can they actually prove that?
If the evidence comes in, they couldn't.
So you do have a hope that at some level, appellate court judges on the federal side would look at these cases, understand what they are, understand the unprecedented nature, and grant relief.
But for D.C., you're looking at the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, not exactly a Trump-friendly court.
In Georgia, things might look a little different, but New York, you're not going to get much relief.
The appeals court for Florida, if it went there, I think has been reasonable, has done some fair things, even if we look at COVID mandates and other things.
So there is hope there.
It's just going to take a lot of time and it is dangerous for our nation to start to continue a precedent of throwing political opponents in jail over things where, you know, at worst, he's doing something that every other president has already done, or he's trying to legally challenge election results when there's evidence of fraud.
And then we're going to go after him for that.
Very, very dangerous, very concerning.
Extremely dangerous.
Davis, let my audience know where they can find you.
So our website is yantslaw.
That's yantslaw.com.
It's at Davis Yance on Twitter.
Most of my legal career has been spent in the military.
More recently, we've been doing a lot to help people who are facing religious persecution as well as fighting back against mandates related to the vaccine and other things.
So happy to chat if these issues come up.
We have to fight to preserve our Constitution and we cannot lose focus on that.
We need to find peaceful means to do this.
We need to encourage Congress to defund the DOJ and we need to pay attention to what's happening in our military moving forward.
So thank you so much for the time to talk about this.
I appreciate it.
Davis, an absolute pleasure to get your insight.
We've got to take a break.
Making Sense of MyPillow Madness 00:02:04
When we come back, we're going to talk about the possibility of the return of the COVID-19 44 nightmare and how to stand up against these mandates, despite the fact the court systems don't seem to want to help us at all with Michael Hitchborn.
We'll be back after this.
It's Making Sense of the Madness.
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We are back.
It's making sense of the madness.
And I was just so disturbed by this story that in Washington State, an appeals court basically said, Governor Inslee, yeah, he might not have had the right to do these things, and they may have been egregious and unconstitutional against the people, but we're not going to allow the lawsuit because the pandemic is over and it's not likely to ever happen again.
Mask Mandates And Propaganda 00:06:01
Well, I'm not so sure about that as I'm seeing a move to mask students and children and people in hospitals.
And we're seeing the hype return around the globe to discuss that.
And much more is Michael Hitchborn.
Michael, thank you so much for joining us.
Number one, what are your thoughts on the idea that they do want this to return?
And secondly, that a court would throw out a lawsuit despite all the evidence that Inslee and others really acted as authoritarian dictators to the detriment of their constituents.
Well, we have to remember that the way that government works, it's if you had a monarchical system where you've got one person in charge and everybody executes that one person's will, that's one thing.
But what we have is a democratic republic, or at least that's what we're supposed to have.
And in that kind of system, the people who have actual power are the ones that control the bureaucracies.
The politicians come and go, but the policies remain.
And those policies tend to be, especially if the policymakers are attached to, oh, I don't know, say mainstream media, you wind up with a government-controlled system that gaslights its own people in order to put forth an ideology that they want to have instilled.
So, understanding all of that as a backdrop, the way that the mask mandates and the vaccine mandates and all of that work is the mainstream media is executing a plan through propaganda in order to prepare the people to accept what the imposition of the will of those in power is going to be.
And I do believe we are going to see a return of the mask mandates.
I think that we are going to see a medical tyranny on a level that we've never seen before.
And the fact that they're gaslighting now to say that, well, you know, it'll probably never happen again is it's a smokescreen in order to hide the fact that that's exactly what they're preparing.
Well, not only a smokescreen, but also to deny the fact that you've seen time and time again representatives from the WHO or individuals such as Bill Gates continually, Anthony Fauci continually saying there will be a next pandemic or another pandemic.
And as I stated before, we are starting to see the propaganda in local media, no less around the country of upticks in cases and people taking the same precautions that did not work the first time.
What are your thoughts on this?
Are we seeing this soft right now?
And is it about to go very hard in October and November?
Or am I just making it up?
Oh, no, this is definitely a political maneuver.
The point is that the people in power don't want to lose that power.
And they're going to use every tool that they have available to them in order to maintain their power.
So when it comes to controlling, oh, I don't know, say the vote, they're going to try and repeat what worked last time.
And what worked last time was to have the mail and ballots, to have all of the different ballot boxes that had no oversight, no chain of custody, nothing, just this way of stuffing the ballot box with whatever they want.
And in order to facilitate that, they have to impose a medical emergency that necessitates that procedure.
So I think that we're absolutely seeing the groundwork being laid now.
By October, we'll see something similar to what we saw the last time around.
And I think that we really ought to go into it with eyes wide open, so to speak.
So you would hope so.
And I do believe that it did wake up a large section of the populace that had not questioned things in the past.
But as you stated, this seems to be driven around the United States' election cycle.
And we all know that there was backlash on the WHO pandemic treaty that we, when I say we, the United States in large part, wrote up and they were not able to get past.
So my next question is: if there is limited participation, how do they get this through?
And can you see a scenario where this isn't pushed as much globally, but sort of U.S.-centric?
And then you see states fall in line like New York, California, and perhaps key swing states in order to control.
Well, I think that we have to recognize that what's going on in the world is a very dynamic system.
In Europe, you've got all kinds of political pressure.
You have not just political pressure, but military pressure.
You have the war going on in the Ukraine.
You've got tensions building up with the migrants in France.
You've got tension with migrants building up in Italy.
And there are actually problems in Germany and Norway as well with regard to people coming from Muslim nations that are rising up and burning down churches and that kind of thing.
So what's happening in Europe, I think, is going to be a little bit different from what happens in the United States.
And the divide with the way that they're handling the media, especially in Europe, Europe is focused primarily on Europe, although they do talk about American issues.
I don't think we're going to see the same kind of global pandemic.
We're going to see natural disasters hitting the United States.
Whether it's real or contrived, you're going to see a use of those disasters to facilitate this idea.
Well, there's global climate change and we have to impose various political policies to combat climate change.
And they're going to be restrictive for people like you and me.
Then they're also going to be using the pandemic.
Combating Censorship and Regulation 00:15:11
And then, of course, they're going to be using the built-up tensions of the people to cause riots and all sorts of chaos.
And what it follows is the formula of the French Revolution, Ordo Abqueo, or as the occultists would say, Salve at Coagula, which is the idea that you first have to disintegrate things going on in society so that you can then build it up in your own image and likeness.
And what they are hoping to accomplish is to create such a tumult over the course of 2024, whether it's a pandemic or whether it's riots or whether it's natural disasters or whatever.
All of those things are going to come together to allow the people in power to maintain power by using those things as an excuse for imposing draconian issues.
We've got to take a break before we go.
Michael, let people know where they can find your stuff.
They can come to Lepantoin.org.
That's L-E-P-A-N-T-O-I-N dot O-R-G.
And they can take a look primarily at our charity reports list.
That's where we let people know whether an organization is in line with Christian teachings and ideologies or not.
When I come back, I want to talk about the return of mask mandates and demonizing those that would resist.
I've said it time and time again: if they start these mandates again, you need to leave your job or your educational institution and not look back.
That's the bottom line.
We got to take the break.
We'll be back after this.
It's making sense of the madness.
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We are back.
And recently, Newsweek ran a story on an individual I was able to spend some time with over at the Reawaken America tour.
Lawyer Paul Davis, who was a really great individual, young Christian guy, had been arrested during the Capitol incident and charged with crimes that he really didn't commit.
And again, in a DC jury, it is very, very hard to get a fair trial.
Ironically, he is an attorney and now being demonized for daring to hold classes and teach people how to resist these mask mandates.
And I'm saying you just have to drop out.
First and foremost, Michael, how do we resist these mandates and these next round of authoritarian dictates?
And then what are your thoughts on the fact that the media has shifted so heavily to try to push people as domestic terrorists that dare challenge the system or dare to support Donald Trump?
The idea of domestic terrorism is a moniker that's being used by those who are currently in power in order to prevent those who would like to, you know, shift the power structure of the country into another direction.
I mean, that's just polemical ideologies being imposed through politics.
But when it comes to avoiding the mask mandates or not participating with any kind of mandates, we have to remember that, first of all, there is no scientific basis to support or substantiate the idea that these actually work.
Everything, even from CDC documents, shows that the masks did not prevent the spread of the disease at all.
Neither did the lockdowns.
In fact, they made things worse.
So I think people need to be informed.
That's the first and most important thing.
Be sure you know your rights.
Be sure you know exactly where you are allowed to operate within the law.
Just, for example, in the state of Virginia in Fredericksburg, there was a gentleman.
He's currently running for state senate, I believe.
He runs a restaurant called Gore Melts.
this the CDC imposed this idea that, well, restaurants are not allowed to be open at this time because there's a pandemic, et cetera.
And he said, I'm not following that because there is no law that says that I can't have my restaurant open.
So he kept himself open.
They tried shutting him down three times.
He remained open.
They never actually did anything to him.
And now he's running for Congress in the state of Virginia.
So when it comes to understanding the law, you have a very strong and powerful force to use to protect you.
But if you don't know the law, if you don't understand the way the science works, then you put yourself in a very weak position.
So I think that knowledge really in this case is power.
The second thing is once you have that knowledge, just ignore the mandate.
Just don't do it.
Don't comply.
And when people tell you that you have to do this because of X, Y, or Z law, you can turn right around and say, no, actually, I understand the law.
Here's what it says.
And here's what I am allowed to do within the confines of that law.
And you can do nothing to me because there is no crime that I am committing by not wearing a mask.
So you have to know the law.
Then you simply don't comply.
You don't go along with anything that they tell you to do that is outside of their authority to actually promote or push.
Number one, I totally agree with you that knowledge in this case is of the utmost importance.
And I'm sorry, ignorance is never, ever bliss, folks.
Knowledge is power.
But at the same time, where some people were able to do what you just said, you can use the example of, say, Max Tavern in New York City, where he continually tried to stay open.
And you actually, it was a cop hangout.
The local police refused to take any action whatsoever.
They went to a nearby sheriff's department, ended up physically arresting the guy.
And yes, he's in the process of winning his court cases after the fact.
But the bottom line is you've got to look in the mirror and you've got to stand up to these authoritarians no matter what they try.
Because like you said, at the end of the day, this is not part of our constitutional republic.
And it is going to be an uphill battle, especially depending on your situation and your geolocation, correct?
Absolutely.
The laws are going to be different from state to state and even city to city.
But the bottom line is that you have a constitutional right to actually act and live within civilization without having with the lack of due process.
Due process is key here.
So if they're trying to step outside the bounds of due process, and a lot of it has to do with finding regulations that they can impose through various agencies, these agencies do not have the authority of law.
They don't.
They can use these agencies to give the impression of law, but they can't.
They can put in regulations and say, well, there are regulations that allow us to drive this industry and that industry.
But even that has its own purview when it comes to the bounds of authority.
So we have to be able to put them in a box.
We have to know where those limits are.
We have to be able to identify those limits and show, hey, they're overstepping their boundaries.
They actually can't impose this regulation or that regulation here or there.
That's where the knowledge is really vital.
But when we look at what they're doing and how they're doing it, they're not going to really be operating within the law.
They don't want to.
And they don't really have to if they think that they can get the police to enforce their regulations without having the law to do it anyway.
So you have to know, all right, well, am I willing to stand up and face criminal charges, which are going to be bogus and it's going to be expensive.
But the more people that actually fight against this system and do not comply and refuse to comply, the harder it is for them to impose their non-authority over the course of time.
And we have to be willing to make that sacrifice.
Well, the bottom line is you cannot comply yourself out of tyranny and you only make it worse.
So look, if it's financial, if you've got to leave your home, you've got to make big decisions.
I know a lot of people out there did, but those decisions may be returning.
We've got to take one more break when we come back.
I want to talk more about the COVID-19 44 nightmare and where you think it leads in the 2024 election.
It is Making Sense of the Madness, and we'll be back after this.
Final segment of Making Sense of the Madness, we're with Michael Hichborn.
And Michael, you were discussing the three-letter agencies a moment ago, obviously alluding to the non-powers, really, of the FDA and the CDC, both of which openly betrayed not only the American people, but humanity in general, in my opinion.
However, they still have the same amount of power.
Yes, their reputation has been tarnished amongst many of us, but let's talk about another three-letter agency that shouldn't have anything to do with the United States, yet it seemed to exude more power than ever.
The paper tiger of the United Nations, the WHO or World Health Organization, that was really the guiding light of this darkness, if you will, and the mouthpiece for the agenda.
What was more troubling to me than all of that is the fact that you had big tech, YouTube in particularly, censoring people on behalf of the WHO and their guidelines.
And then that extended into questioning the 2020 election.
So how do we combat these three-letter agencies, especially the ones abroad that we didn't even create?
And how do we combat the massive censorship that comes along with it?
Well, combating censorship is actually, that's what you're doing right now by having AMP.
You know, you're combating the censorship.
We combat censorship by not allowing various industry platforms to be the only voice or the only platform that we use.
You know, you've got X now and whatever instead of Twitter.
You've got Facebook.
You've got YouTube.
Up until recently, all three of which were involved in some form of censorship.
But now, because of the shift over at X, you have a lot more freedom of speech.
But there are so many other platforms to use.
You've got Gab, MeWe, you've got LinkedIn, you've got, you know, whatever.
There are various other iterations of YouTube out there, too, like Rumble and a few others.
So you use all of those other platforms, not necessarily exclusively, but collectively, in order to continue to get around the censorship.
Because the fact of the matter is the way the communists work, they always use choke points.
They will try to get everybody to go down one hallway.
And then they create a bottleneck at one point of the hallway to make sure that only certain people get through or only certain kinds of information get through, or only the preferred customer gets through.
So that's the way they operate.
If you want to get around that, just don't use their platform or go down the hallway that they're using to create those bottlenecks, and you won't have that same problem.
You know, when it comes to the World Health Organization, we have to understand the WHO, which has zero authority, zero authority, is being used as an authoritative figure to come up with some sort of guidelines or understandings of a particular illness.
And with those guidelines and understandings, they can say, well, this is the authority that speaks for us.
And this is the standard by which we are going to make all of our decisions.
And that's the connection.
So WHO is being connected with big tech, and big tech is therefore carrying their water so that they can carry the water of the politicians for the purpose of the global elitists at the World Health Organization, United Nations, and whomever else is trying to, quote unquote, rule the world.
So let's shift gears to the 2024 election.
I would argue that the 2020 election was the most outwardly and obviously corrupt election in this nation's history.
I've seen nothing to say that the infrastructure has changed enough that we're going to see any difference in 2024.
You've mentioned the fact that they definitely want to bring these mandates back to try to institute mail-in ballots, etc.
Where do we go from here?
And how do we change that infrastructure?
Because I would argue that there should have been a red wave in the midterms, and it's not for the reasons that they said, but because we still have corrupt voting systems, which include totally and completely unaccountable machines that are not auditable and have proprietary software.
Polling Stations Watchdogs 00:04:20
Well, I think that as individuals, we have to be willing to go to the polling stations and keep an eye on things.
The more eyes that are going on at the polling stations, the less chance they have of shenanigans.
We have to have people showing up en masse and staying there and not going away when they say, well, we're going to stop counting for now.
Come back tomorrow morning.
No, don't leave.
Don't leave.
Refuse to leave.
And if they force you out of the building, stand outside the building with your phones ready to go.
Make sure everybody who was in the building is gone so that they can't sit there and do things behind closed doors or they put up big walls.
And if they do, record it.
Make sure that everybody in the world gets to see there are certain things that are going on here that are outside the scope of the American electoral system that must be investigated.
And that particular precinct has to be shut down in order to make sure that every vote counts and everybody understands there is a problem here with these individuals who are trying to shift the policy or shift the power or whatever it is from what the people are trying to do.
So it's about maintaining a presence.
Those of us who are on the ground, we've got to be present.
We have to be willing to step forward and put forward long, long nights.
Give up your sleep.
Maybe you don't get to eat as much because you're going to be at that polling station making sure that they're not going to steal this from you.
Well, let's just hope there's no water pipes bursting and suitcases under table that are caught on camera and just apparently don't even matter.
We've only got a couple of minutes left, Michael.
What else would you like to convey to the audience?
Well, when it comes to understanding the way things operate here at the Lepanto Institute, our primary focus is on helping people to understand the way the communists, the international globalist elites, try to operate.
We've focused a lot on the sustainable development goals.
We also, because we're a Catholic organization, we focus on things going on in the Vatican.
So if you're a Catholic or a Christian, you want to understand things that are going on within the church and how what happens in the church is reflected in what happens in civilization, please give us a look, Lepantoin.org.
We also maintain a primary charities list.
You can look at our charity reports where we go over various organizations that claim to be Catholic or Christian, but in fact are actually operating under the auspices of worldly ideologies.
And we mark them as either safe or not safe.
And you can see why on the list, whether they support abortion, contraception, homosexuality, Marxism, so forth.
Michael Hitchborn of the Lepanto Institute, thank you so much for joining us.
And thank you guys for joining us here at AMP News, where the truth lives.
Remember, it's not about left or right.
It's about right and wrong.
You can catch the show Monday through Friday, 6 p.m. Eastern Time at ampnews.us.
I love you guys, and I'll see you on the flip side.
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