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July 29, 2023 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
59:42
The War on Truth Is the War on Ivermectin | MSOM Ep. 799

Watch it first Monday - Friday at 6pm Eastern only at http://AmpNews.us

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Time Text
Post-Truth Pandemic Trials 00:14:56
Welcome to Making Sense of the Madness.
I am Jason Burmese and today is a very special program.
We have the authors of The War on Ivermectin on the program, Dr. Pierre Corey and Jenna McCarthy.
It's going to be a banger of an episode and you're not going to want to miss it back after this.
I think it's really important to point out that we truly do live in a post-truth world.
And although many believe that the pandemic and its effects are over, that we're back to normal, nothing could be further from the truth.
In fact, just this week, we have people trying to take away medical licenses for the prescription of what?
Ivermectin.
Why?
Because it works.
But Mother Jones isn't going to tell you that.
No, they're going to tell you that ivermectin is great for animals, including deer, because it can stop Lyme disease.
But you, you're bad if you think it works for humans.
On top of that, Forbes has just done a hit piece in which they say, no, ivermectin did not help Japan bring down COVID-19 coronavirus delta surge.
Anything the predator class and their authoritarian minions in the Muppet mainstream media can do to demonize a drug that has worked for a multitude of different things, even has trials out there that seem to see it working for cancers.
Well, let's demonize that cheap, effective, and what generic drug that can help humanity and instead, what, push remdesivir ventilators?
That's the world we still live in today.
And that's why we have to continue to shine light on the darkness.
The subtitle of this book we're going to be talking about today is The Medicine That Saved Millions and Could Have Ended the Pandemic.
So why didn't it?
Well, when we come back, we're going to talk to the authors and we're going to make sense of the madness.
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We are back and now it's time to talk about the war on ivermectin.
Joining me are its authors, Dr. Pierre Corey and Jenna McCarthy.
I'm so glad that we have a full hour to flesh this out.
Dr. Corey, just as a review, how did you get involved in talking about ivermectin during the COVID-19 44 nightmare?
Yeah, I mean, so what happened when COVID hit, you know, I'm a pulmonary and critical care physician.
And, you know, when this pandemic started to roll across the globe, I mean, this was a pulmonary and critical care disease.
And myself and a group of close colleagues, we just started reading and devouring everything we could to learn about the disease and how to treat it.
And what we did is in March of 2020, we put up a hospital protocol because that's where we were all working in ICUs.
And, you know, what we started from the beginning is just following all of the data, all of the trials data.
We were constantly looking for therapeutics.
And really, we did not incorporate ivermectin into a protocol until the fall of 2020.
It was actually October of 2020 when we started to see these trials data being entered because that's when kind of the trials were first being posted, you know, from the beginning of the pandemic.
And the data around ivermectin was like nothing we'd ever seen before.
A lot of the trials at that time were failing.
Hydroxychloroquine trials, well, they're fraudulent, but that didn't look good.
Tosalizumab, a number of other things.
Remedesimir is a joke, but ivermectin stood out.
And when we saw that data, we started, we put it into a protocol and we started recommending it.
And as you probably know, Jason, I mean, I gave testimony.
Senator Johnson asked me to give testimony and I presented a mountain of data.
And I literally thought that that hearing would be heard.
It was.
It went viral.
It went around the world.
And suddenly ivermectin was being discussed all over the globe, really.
And I'm glad we put it on the map, but that also triggered the backlash and the war.
And, you know, I detail that in the book.
So let's talk about you, Jenna.
You have a background in media as a magazine editor.
What drove you to become a part of this project?
Well, it started with just being involved in the censorship in general.
That was kind of how I got started.
So I, from almost minute one, maybe there might have been a five minute span where I was bleaching my groceries and, you know, wearing my stupid leopard print mask.
But really, really soon into the pandemic, I had this epiphany.
And I love that this show is making sense of the madness because my epiphany was nothing makes sense.
This doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense standing six feet apart.
It doesn't make.
So because I have been a journalist, I've written close to 20 books and had a fairly nice size online presence before I got shut down everywhere.
I just started blogging about it.
And I think one of my earliest posts was make it make sense.
And of course, the backlash was swift and furious.
And you're questioning the narrative.
What?
What do you know?
You're not a doctor.
You know, I started getting the does her own research tag on everything I said.
So I began following the Pierre Coreys and the Paul Merricks and the Ryan Coles and that whole group.
And they actually did make sense.
So that was kind of how I got involved.
I began writing for the FLCCC peers group, which of course was fantastic.
And that ultimately morphed into the book.
Now, that was just such an inversion of reality when they were telling you, and the mantra today is do not do your own research.
And that is just akin to being a quote unquote conspiracy theorist.
Meanwhile, the authoritarian, I mean, authoritative sources kept moving the goalpost.
In the beginning, it was going to be two weeks to slow the spread.
That soon ended.
Then it was six feet apart, masks, wash your hands.
I think that people should have caught on when people like Fauci were saying, you know what, handshakes are over, not just for the pandemic, but forever.
We shouldn't shake hands.
As soon as that moment hit, I thought, well, a lot of people are going to wake up.
And unfortunately, the fear and the Bernesian propaganda that was hammered home on television, on radio, and really through social media had its effect.
And many people just thought, hey, if we go along, eventually this is going to be over.
What was your frustration when you put a solution out there, Dr. Corey?
And not only was it largely ignored by the mainstream media at first, but when it started to catch fire via our own social media, via the Joe Rogans of the world, you and Iver Mectin were completely demonized.
Yeah.
Well, I will tell you, the Ivermectin saga was shocking to me.
But, you know, another thing that happened in COVID is that myself and my group in the spring of 2020, in our protocol, we recommended corticosteroids for the hospital phase of this disease.
And we did that at a time when every national and international healthcare agency was recommending against corticosteroids.
And I testified in Ron Johnson's hearing that was in the spring of 2020.
And, you know, after that, I mean, the backlash was swift.
You know, the people were accusing us of malpractice and that we're going to hurt people.
But you know what?
Two months later, a huge trial out of Oxford showed that corticosteroids were life-saving and became the standard of care overnight.
So that was like my first experience, you know, be having a sort of a public voice as a physician giving guidance.
And I was initially attacked, but then we were proven correct.
Then when you get to Ivermectin, that's not what happened.
And I detail what happened in the book.
I mean, you know, when I gave that testimony, two days later, the Associated Press asked for an interview.
And we were so excited, me and my group, we were like, this is a great outlet.
This is a way we can provide our conflict of interest-free, you know, independent objective recommendations on how to treat it.
And we'd have the Associated Press amplifying that message.
But that's not what happened.
I gave a 30-minute interview.
I gave so much data to the reporter.
And within a day, that article was published.
And it barely mentioned ivermectin.
It just lumped it in as another drug to debunk like hydroxychloroquine.
And there were mistruths in it.
None of the data I provided was included.
I mean, it's literally a hit job.
And that was my first wake-up call that something was wrong.
And things continue to happen against ivermectin.
My paper, I submitted a comprehensive review paper of all the data on ivermectin and COVID, overwhelmingly positive, concluding that it should be systematically deployed in the prevention and treatment worldwide.
That paper passed peer review with four expert peer reviewers, three of them senior scientists from the NIH and FDA.
They were colleagues of Robert Malone because Robert was my special issue editor that I was submitting to.
And after passing peer review, Jason, nothing happened.
It was an online journal.
Week after week after week went by and they wouldn't publish.
And I kept writing to the journal, like, what's happening?
Where are the proofs?
Why isn't this being published?
And I finally, I accused them of scientific misconduct and that I was going to go public with it because they weren't publishing our paper.
And it was the winter of 2020, 2021, where it was just massive hospitalizations and death.
And when I threatened them to go public with this accusation, within two days, they were on the phone with Robert Malone, the chief editor of all the journals, had a discussion with him, and he informed us that he was retracting the paper that had passed peer review.
And we kind of knew that the fix was in there, but I still had a lot more to learn.
You know, the kind of tactics they pull is what I detail in the book.
And, you know, that book, I'll just finish my kind of anecdote.
Is you know, what happened after the retraction of our paper, the tax increased.
It also made us look uncredible because we had a paper that was retracted, right?
And that's that's really how they try to silence truth tellers: they want to damage your credibility.
They want to see you make you seem uncredible, fringe, quack, radical, with strange ideas, so that no one listens to you.
And that was one of the moves they did.
And, you know, other things were happening.
There were hit jobs in the press on me.
And I couldn't believe it.
I mean, I've won teaching awards at major academic medical institutions throughout my career.
I'm considered an excellent educator.
I was well known in my specialty before.
I have one of the most popular textbooks that's translated into seven languages.
It's in its second edition.
And suddenly, I was being portrayed as this, you know, ignorant physician with strange conclusions of the data.
And I will say this: that my life changed in March of 2021.
I received an email one day, and it was from someone I didn't know.
It was from a professor, William B. Grant.
And he wrote to me and he said, Dear Dr. Corey, what they're doing to ivermectin, they've been doing to vitamin D for decades.
And he included a link to an article called the Disinformation Playbook.
And that article, it's online.
You can Google it.
It's still the first hit, but it details the tactics that industries employ when science emerges that's inconvenient to their industries, their interests.
All industries use these tactics.
It was pioneered by the tobacco industry, which for 50 years tried to scientifically convince the world that cigarettes were not harmful.
And that playbook is still being used.
And when I read it, like the tactics are all named after American football plays.
It's like the fix, the fake, the diversion, the screen, the blitz.
And I'm looking at the examples of numerous cases where industries conducted these disinformation campaigns.
And I saw everything in that prison with ivermectin.
It was like suddenly the world was being explained.
And what happened that day, Jason, is that I realized that myself and my colleagues and our organization, the FLCCC, that we were literally now in a war against this massive disinformation campaign.
And the forces we were up against were so powerful.
They controlled almost everything in society.
I mean, we saw the media being controlled, the agencies, the medical journals, and the newspapers.
And, you know, but we kept plugging away with our website, with our lectures.
And I think that we communicated the evidence of efficacy to a significant portion of the population, not the majority.
But I do believe we saved a lot of lives with our guidance and recommendations.
Well, I agree that you saved a lot of lives.
And these hit jobs are no surprise to someone like me who has seen them for 20 plus years and especially within the mainstream media.
Media Control Awakenings 00:03:02
But I will say this: even the mainstream media now, some of them are talking about your work.
You know, the Wall Street Journal just did an op-ed asking why the FDA is demonizing ivermectin, which is a promising COVID treatment and prophylaxis.
You know, it only took three more years, right?
But at the same time, we still have people being prosecuted for daring to use it and disciplined.
This is happening currently in Houston.
I want to talk to you, Jenna, for a moment.
You've been in the mainstream media a long time.
You talked about your awakening early on during the COVID-19 44 nightmare because of the disinformation and misinformation they were putting out there and then censoring the real information while again accusing you of doing what they, in fact, were doing.
In your history of the media, had you ever seen something or in reflection now that resembles this type of an attack campaign?
I had never seen anything like this ever.
I have likened, you know, when all those videos started coming out that were, you know, Anderson Cooper brought to you by Pfizer, Good Morning America, brought to you by Pfizer.
I wrote another post and I likened it to I was in the fashion and beauty industry for years in New York City.
So I worked for the big magazines, Mademoiselle and Glamour.
And we would have a photo of Cindy Crawford or whoever it was at the time with a face full of beautiful makeup.
And we would take that photo and we would send it out to the makeup company of the month, whoever had spent the most on advertising, frankly, Estee Lauder or Lancome.
And they would send back a list of the products that matched.
And we would say right there on the photo, Cindy Crawford is wearing very buried blush.
She was not.
She was wearing whatever the makeup artist had in her bag at the time, but Estee Lauder was going to get all the credit for that.
So that was another kind of when I put that together, it was like, oh, the media really, you're always going to be pandering to your advertisers, always.
You are never going to do the big story.
Like right now, it's coming out, you know, with the whole Diet Coke and that's going to kill us.
That's not going to be on any network that is being funded by the Coca-Cola company, I would imagine.
You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
So this was an awakening for me in so many ways.
And, you know, I would just keep, I kept asking the same question.
The people who are speaking out have nothing to gain.
Pierre Corey had nothing to gain.
Ivermectin was cheap.
It was, you know, off patent.
Nobody was going to make a kill and get rich off of ivermectin.
Who Stands to Gain? 00:05:27
Certainly not the doctors prescribing it.
They were trying to save lives and they were the ones being maligned.
So you just had to ask yourself who stands to gain.
Somebody has to gain something from what they're suggesting, the remdesivir and the ventilators and everything else.
Who is it?
And it's not the doctors and the scientists, the Mike Edens, you know, former Pfizer scientists speaking out.
It was not them.
They were destroyed.
They were decimated.
Absolutely.
And I want to talk about a couple points.
You know, earlier, Dr. Corey had talked about the corticosteroids.
Again, another cheap drug, budesinide in particular, that had a peer-reviewed study that still wasn't widely adopted or talked about, still suppressed.
And you just talked about, I believe, another study, you talked about Diet Coke, where aspartame, which many people have said causes neurological damage and cancers for years, now may be classified as a possible carcinogen by the Lords and Gods over at the World Health Organization.
And that's where I want to segue this next point into the World Health Organization.
We didn't elect them.
You know, the UN is basically supposed to be this forum where we talk to people and maybe work something out.
We took on full-on authoritarian medical dictates that were then kind of scurried down to the FDA, the CDC, and our local governments from the WHO.
Talk about that for a moment.
Yeah.
I mean, that development, I mean, some of the changes that COVID brought about just continue to accelerate.
I mean, this concentration of power and decision-making authority in a small body sitting at the top is so dangerous, you know, because once that locus of power gets captured, and it's already captured, I mean, there's immense documentation showing that the WHO was literally taken over by pharma over the last 20 years, pharma and Bill Gates.
And so, that is not an objective source of information or guidance.
And the more you see these actions, which is looking to give more authority to WHO, I mean, it's exactly the lesson that we learned is to do the opposite.
We need to decentralize that.
We need to preserve our freedoms, our decision-making powers.
And I find this ludicrous.
It's like we haven't learned anything from COVID and all of the destruction with all of these policies, which I love that, you know, with the way Jenna talks about it, nothing made sense.
And, you know, the way in which I interpret is that, like, I was deeply studying the data from numerous sources, right?
That's the, that's the, that is the error that most people make in society today is they rely on a single source of information.
And I think it's really important that you seek out numerous sources and perspectives.
And what I was seeing was these policies being issued that were totally divorced from scientific data.
In fact, they were sometimes running counter to what the data was showing.
And I mean, we have to be aware of that.
And I'm glad you brought that up because this, this, this increasing authority of the WHO for future pandemics.
And they can call it, they can call anything a pandemic or a medical emergency.
And then they get the world, you know, walking in lockstep with whatever they want us to do.
I mean, this really is a clown world.
And we have to fight back against it.
And, you know, I thought that the World Health Organization, just like I thought when Fauci said we got to stop shaking hands for the rest of our lives, it's over for humanity.
That when they said that the flu had disappeared from the northern and southern hemisphere virtually all together, that that would have been an awakening to people.
As in this country, you would have 400,000 cases of the flu and sometimes, what was it, close to 100,000 hospitalizations.
Even Fauci himself, in that now infamous clip where you had the gentleman in the inner city telling him off, admitted that virtually nobody had died of the flu before.
But when the World Health Organization said that, I thought, hey, maybe people are going to wake up.
They didn't, Jenna.
What was your perception of the World Health Organization prior to this?
And what is it now?
I thought they were wonderful and caring for our best interests.
Why would I think anything different?
They're the world health organization.
Tess Laurie, who we love, she came from there.
I'm embarrassed to admit the vast, vast number of things that I didn't question before COVID.
And now, fast forward to today, it's terrifying.
Hang on, let me adjust my tinfoil hat here.
But if you can look at the way things went down and the trajectory of how fast we went from two weeks to flatten the curve to, you know, you're not getting into this grocery store or this restaurant without showing your papers, that was absolute insanity.
If you think that wasn't a test to, you know, the test of our resolve and our compliance and how willing Americans in particular, but global citizens, would be to tyranny, you're crazy.
Definition Of Disinformation 00:15:33
You're the crazy one.
I don't know what else to say.
I mean, they're clearly not safeguarding our health.
It's clearly about being able, they want to declare a pandemic.
In order to do that, they have to define a pandemic.
They've changed the definition of pandemic.
They've changed the definition of vaccine.
It used to be confers immunity.
Now it may help promote immunity or something absurd.
An anti-vaxxer used to be someone who opposed vaccines.
Now it includes anyone who opposes vaccine mandates, right?
So they're crafting their narrative.
They're really gearing up for this complete totalitarian control that they want.
Again, you know, and I'll get the conspiracy theorist tag, which I've gotten for three years now and I wear proudly because, yeah, I'm questioning things.
It doesn't make sense.
Well, we've got to take a break.
When we come back, I want to talk misinformation, disinformation, malinformation, mRNA, Bill Gates, and much more.
It's making sense of the madness back after this.
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We are back.
It's Making Sense of the Madness.
The book is The War on Ivermectin.
You can find it on Amazon, amongst other places.
I want to get into misinformation, disinformation, and this new term that arose, malinformation.
Now, misinformation and disinformation were bad enough because you would basically have these authoritarians come out and say, no, no, no, authoritative sources have not confirmed that.
And in fact, we're going to bring in USA Today and we're going to bring in Reuters and the Associated Press and we're going to tell you what's real and what's not.
And we're going to mark things off.
And when it gets too bad, we're actually going to take it down.
But malinformation was 100% truthful and verified information that was what?
Counterproductive to their great narrative.
The only way out of this thing was to line up and take mRNA and vector-based shots that were promoted not only by guys like Bill Gates, but our defense department in a partnership with Moderna that lasted since 2013, by the way.
And we just had to trust the science.
Meanwhile, as you pointed out, Jenna, they actually changed the definition of what a vaccine was and had to do because these products that Moderna was working on with the Defense Department, DARPA in particular, were actually referred to as gene therapy prior to this nightmare.
So can we talk about how not only did they change the language, Dr. Corey, but they brought in this new term of malinformation that was just a rubber stamp to censor anything and everything that might be inconvenient to them?
Yeah, I mean, the censorship is the censorship and process.
Here's what I've been saying for a while: is that what I saw and observed in COVID is I saw a world that went mad.
The whole world went mad.
And the cause of that madness or the trigger was this just massive censorship and propaganda.
So, this distortion of information.
They use all sorts of terms, right?
And so, any information that they don't want, they're going to label it with one of those terms.
Now, for me, misinformation is simply inaccurate information, usually disseminated by maybe an individual or a small group, whereas disinformation is literally propaganda.
It's usually done by corporations and governments.
And malinformation is some sort of information that's intended to harm someone.
It's all harmful.
Misinformation, disinformation, malinformation is all harmful and it will hurt people.
But the disinformation, which is propaganda, my favorite definition of propaganda is it's from Professor Mark Crispin Miller of NYU, who's a world expert on the study of propaganda.
But he defines it as a story or a message that gets you to act or think in a certain way.
And I think that's a really powerful definition because when you think of like you just mentioned, Jason, the vaccines, I mean, they used propaganda to get people to line up for those gene therapies.
And they used, they pulled every trick in the book, right?
This relentless hammering of safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective.
These messages of how you're going to hurt your grandmother if you don't do your job.
You know, they literally tricked everyone.
And remember, they do this at wartime, right?
So wartime is probably the only time that propaganda is considered somewhat acceptable because you want to kind of motivate the country to get back and support this cause.
I mean, that's a complicated issue.
But here, they were doing similar tactics to get everyone together to just get vaccinated.
Everything's going to be better as soon as everyone's vaccinated.
And so those messages, relentless messages, literally led people, and I'm going to say this: led people to the slaughter.
I mean, the hundreds of thousands of deaths, which we know were caused by these vaccines, I mean, that was people lining up for an experimental shot, which was not, which very quickly we could see was both toxic and lethal.
And yet, that was pretty, that was, that was hidden from them.
People thought these things were safe and effective, and it was the right thing to do.
And I mean, the damage that that caused is horrible, but that was a disinformation campaign.
And, you know, Jen and I have talked about this: is that the disinformation campaign propelling and supporting the vaccines was identical to the disinformation campaign attacking ivermectin hydroxychloroquine.
I mean, they use the same tactics and with just two different results.
And it's overwhelmingly powerful because the media is so consolidated that they can focus their messages to get us to behave in very strange ways.
And I saw not only lay people doing things which I thought were absurd, but the way they propagandize the doctors from those medical journals and agency recommendations.
I mean, here's the transformation because the book, Jen and I trace my own transformation, political, scientific, sociologic.
But, you know, I, at the beginning of COVID, I had an implicit faith and trust in those institutions, just like Jenna talked about with the WHO.
I mean, I had no knowledge of to not believe that they weren't about public health and protecting public health.
I thought the high-impact medical journals published only the best science and best scientists.
You know, I thought the agencies, even Fauci, I'll make a joke here.
I literally started COVID thinking that Fauci was a sympathetic fella in a tough spot with a lot of critics doing the best he could.
That is not what I believe anymore.
I was very quickly dissuaded of that.
But, you know, you just came to learn so much, but they're able to manipulate us and hide the truth through the control of that information.
And all those institutions of society, even like the New York Times, Jason, you're going to laugh at me, but I used to read the New York Times every day since childhood.
I thought it was the paper of record, the arbiter of truth.
And that if you really wanted to know what's going on, you read the New York Times.
And COVID not only exposed the rot within all those institutions, but the New York Times, I can barely look at anymore.
I literally see narratives and propaganda filling those pages every day, trying to control how we think, what we believe, and how we act.
And it's, it really, I'm glad you brought up this topic because to me, it's the root cause of everything that went wrong.
It was the control of information, how they disseminate it, how they package it, and literally to manipulate us.
And we need to learn about that.
And I hope that's one of the, if people read the book, I think of the book in a few different ways.
I mean, it's partly autobiographical, traces my journey.
It's partly, I think, a document for history.
I want people 10 years from now to know what happened in COVID.
But really, it's a case study in a disinformation campaign.
And I think if you read the book, it would arm you with the information on how to recognize those kind of campaigns because they're happening on every topic facing society.
It's not just medicine, right?
It's Ukraine.
It's this.
It's the corruption of the Bidens.
I mean, it's constant and pervasive.
And these, you know, recognizing what misinformation, disinformation, malinformation is critical because otherwise we're not going to be able to do the right things for ourselves.
We're going to be acting out of inaccurate information and worst lies.
And we need to navigate our world sanely and safely, keep ourselves healthy and protected, our families, our friends, our community.
And we can't do that if we're going to constantly look at these captured agencies and media and think that what they tell us is in our best interest.
It's almost certainly not.
It's done by corporate interests that do not align with our interests.
And I probably said too much there, but this is one of the most troubling aspects of what I've learned about the world in COVID.
I don't think you said too much at all.
And I think that because you continue to speak out, we're penetrating the mainstream more and more.
And one of the highlights of that is that we have somebody like RFK Jr. that is talking about the suppression of ivermectin and other medicines that clearly could have had an impact and stopped the pandemic.
And because of that, we had hearings where Democrats literally tried to censor him in a censorship hearing.
I've been paying attention to this stuff for 20 plus years.
I've reached back decade upon decade upon decade beyond that.
I can't find an instance where this precedent has ever been set where they literally try to censor somebody at a censorship hearing, somebody who looks like the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination, if we have free and fair elections, of the presidency.
What did you think about those hearings, Jenna?
Well, it's funny that that exact concept of censoring the censorship hearings, it's the same thing as the disinformation piece we were just talking about.
My favorite part of the pandemic was when the mainstream media came out with the disinformation dozen.
Now, again, to reiterate, misinformation is just merely a mistake.
I said it was Tuesday when it's Monday.
Misinformation.
Disinformation, by definition, is intended to deceive.
Okay, so we knew that the powers that be were intending to deceive, but they chose a group of 12 individuals, Robert Kennedy Jr. being among them, Joseph Mercola.
There were several that I knew.
But when I saw that these people that I was following and believing and respecting were on this list, my next thought was, thanks for the list of people to follow.
I didn't know Rashawn Boutar.
I didn't know Sherry Tenpenny at the time.
So it was a fantastic introduction to other people who were daring to speak out against that narrative, just like Robert Kennedy has been doing.
And God love him and may he be protected.
You know, and on the disinformation thing, one of our favorite, there's two stories that we cover in the book that I absolutely loved on the disinformation.
Number one was Joe Rogan getting COVID.
And then, you know, they did the green wash on his face in all the videos, and all the headlines were, Joe Rogan takes the horse dewormer.
It was perfectly clear and proven by then that this was a human drug.
There were human forms.
There were tons of studies already at this point to support it.
Did the media touch those?
Absolutely not.
And anytime I would try to, you know, go on any of my, you know, places where I'm posting things and promote ivermectin, somebody would shove one of those fraudulent studies or, you know, the Joe Rogan thing in my face because they would believe it.
People believe what the media tells them.
The second example of it was Rolling Stone.
Rolling Stone magazine ran an article.
The headline was something like, and it's almost this or very, very close.
Gunshot wound victims left waiting outside because of the overflow.
The hospital was overflowing with ivermectin overdoses.
Okay, this is the story in Rolling Stone Magazine.
People respect it.
The actual, well, and Pierre will be really mad at me if I don't include this.
The photo they chose to accompany this story was a bunch of people bundled up in winter coats waiting outside a hospital.
It was September at the time.
So, you know, probably low 90s at coolest.
And so the actual story was there were all totaled zero ivermectin overdoses.
One hospital had gotten four calls with questions, just questions.
Can I take the animal version?
How much would I take?
That type of thing.
But somehow the media was able to spin this into people are gunshot victims.
Like if you're going to, if you're going to go, go big, right?
Go big or go home.
It was completely false.
And, you know, within days, the hospital released a statement.
And I think Rolling Stone might have made a little, you know, social media whoops, but it doesn't matter.
You know, the lie was out there and it was being shared over and over and over.
And you don't come back from that.
There are people to this day who fully wholeheartedly believe ivermectin is the horse dewormer and that gunshot victims died because of it.
I mean, there are people to this day ready to take that seventh booster.
Go ahead, Dr. Yeah, I wanted to add something to that because Jenna, you know, she's really hitting upon two of the most flagrant absurdities in the war of ivermectin.
Horse Dewormer PR Campaign 00:03:57
But I want to put the Joe Rogan case into context because one of the chapters that we wrote is called the Horse Dewormer PR Campaign.
And I want everyone to understand that that was literally a PR campaign.
And, you know, a good friend of mine taught me something.
He said, you know, a propaganda narrative.
He said, there's a rule.
It's called a two by four.
It's two weeks on four different media sources where they just hammer and hammer and hammer.
And he says, you'll see that.
You'll see them come out in cycles.
And what happened with the horse dewormer campaign is, and I trace everything that happened.
So what happened was in the middle of August of 2021, data came out showing that ivermectin prescriptions were skyrocketing in the U.S.
It was up to 90,000 a week.
That's just retail, not compounding.
And I think that spooked the other side.
And that's when they launched the horse dewormer campaign.
And you could see how it played out.
Like the first thing was a memo from the CDC that went to every State Department of Health, went to every doctor license in each state.
So within 24 hours, you had a stern memo from the CDC that ivermectin overdoses was on the rise, that it was dangerous, and the FDA hadn't approved it, which is a deception.
You don't need the FDA to approve it for COVID.
You can use it off labels.
You could see they were trying to manipulate.
That was about five days later, about August 19.
Then the FDA, with their famous tweet, which went viral, right?
You know, stop it, y'all.
You're not a horse.
You're not a cow.
Then the societies jumped in.
So the AMA, the American Board of Pharmacists, they put out a memo, which is unprecedented.
They have no authority to do this, but they put out a memo to the country calling for the immediate cessation of prescribing of ivermectin.
Literally, they're just yelling at the country to stop using ivermectin when the country was doing great using it.
And then that's when you saw that PR campaign just get launched, which is every media outlet.
So the late night talk show host, the daytime host, the news broadcast, never using the word ivermectin.
You could see the synchronized PR campaign being launched, and they got the memo.
Do not call it ivermectin, call it the horse dewormer.
And when you look at how I trace the chronology of that month period, Joe Rogan decides to get COVID literally in the first week of the campaign.
So he becomes like the fulcrum of what this horse dewormer campaign just latched on.
And like Jenna said, they made his face yellow and they presented him as uncredible as possible.
And I mean, that was really extremely damaging and highly successful.
I have to admit, it was highly successful because they pulled out all the stops.
And like Jenna said, by the end of it, you literally had most of the country thinking that ivermectin was just what crazy fringe, anti-vax right-wing or whatever they call all of us would do.
And it caused an immense amount of death.
I mean, it was a campaign that was meant to guide your actions, which is away from ivermectin, don't believe it works, don't use it.
And they know how to guide that.
They know how to manipulate us.
And they discredited it by making it a horse dewormer.
And like Jenna mentioned, not only the human forms, the discovery of ivermectin won the Nobel Prize because of its impacts on ridding the world of two parasitic diseases.
Now, ivermectin is also a broad antiviral, but it's as an anti-parasite.
It's unparalleled.
I mean, it literally rid the world, at least the low and middle income parts of the world, from the disfiguring of river blindness and elephantiasis.
And so, I mean, it's an incredible medicine.
It is called the wonder drug by its inventor because it has all of these unbelievable properties and it's one of the safest medicine.
And that's what makes that the war on ivermectin to be so tragic and so absurd.
And I think Jenna's right in calling out, you know, the other one with the gunshot wound.
The Streisand Effect 00:03:12
So I make this joke that literally, you read that headline, right?
Gunshot wound victims left waiting as ivermectin overdoses filled the hospitals.
That thing went viral.
I mean, but you also have to understand these things that they're doing, there are real pros behind them.
They know how to do PR campaigns.
They know what clickbait is.
They know how to make things go viral.
I mean, the success of that FDA tweet was not an accident.
That's a PR firm that wrote that tweet.
That Rolling Stone article was an absurdity written by a PR from full of lies.
But it's such a crazy headline that it went all around the world.
And, you know, I had a front row seat of that and I watched it.
And that's why I made a commitment early on that I am documenting this for history because I just, I felt I was responsible.
I'm a teacher and I wanted to document and teach the world what they do and how they do it so we recognize it.
Well, it was a clear and concerted campaign of lies and the inversion of truth that actually caused death and damage and destruction while blaming people like us for doing the same.
Absolutely disgusting.
We've got to take another break when we come back.
I want to talk about that effect of putting out the disinformation dozen, the Streisand effect that gets people to look at this information.
and much more when we come back, it's Making Sense of the Madness.
We are back, short shit.
Short segment of the show.
Jenna, you mentioned the idea that once you were told about the quote-unquote disinformation dozen, that you gravitated towards that because there were people on there, not only that you trusted, but because the establishment was telling you that they were bad and you had recognized that the establishment itself was lying to you.
Do you think that that type of effect, the Streisand effect, helps you guys and brings people to the book, The War on Ivermectin?
Man, I hope so.
You know, Pierre and I talk about that in the book.
Lost Trust Pauses Decision 00:02:28
It's like, as soon as they, they, the powers that be, the narrative crafters, as soon as they demonize anyone or anything, I'm going to become a follower.
I'm a fan.
I don't know.
I was thinking as we were having this conversation, maybe Diet Coke has some secret health benefits if the WHO is saying it's bad.
I mean, that's how bad it is.
I've always been a questioner.
I think that's the researcher in me.
I want to look at both sides and I want to have all the information before I make a decision.
But this administration, this group of leaders, I have to use their quotes on that.
They make it really, really hard because basically everything they've said is a lie.
I don't know how you ever regain that trust.
You know, I was when I first started going down the COVID road, I have two daughters.
They're both adults.
But I had said, you know, we're not doing these.
They were both under 18 at the time.
Now they're 18 and 20.
And I said, we're not doing this shot.
And they were, oh, like we get our flu shots.
We've had all of our other shots.
And I said, I know, but this one's making me pause.
We're gonna, we're just gonna pump the brakes a little bit, we're gonna do our own research.
Right in going down that road is where I discovered, you know, everything Robert Kennedy is revealing and um, Naomi Wolf and all the folks out there doing this amazing work um, and so my oldest daughter got a text one day from her pediatrician you're due for uh, I think it was meningitis and I said you can just respond no, and she was like we're anti-vaxxers.
Now we're, we're anti-vaxxers.
And I said yeah, kind of, we kind of, are they lost that trust?
They lost that trust.
And now, of course, following children's health defense and and learning that there have not been adequate safety and efficacy studies for any of these vaccines and obviously we know how the schedule has exploded since the 80s and um no we're, you're.
I don't know what they could possibly do to regain my trust, but it is for sure gone at this point.
Now, dr Corey, when you talk about the demonization of a cheap and highly effective medication across the board on a number of issues, this brings me to a pause.
Making Sense of Socialized Medicine 00:02:52
When we talk about quote-unquote socialized medicine or Medicare for all you know, I want to believe and, by the way, I do think everybody should have health care, but not the health care that is dictated or mandated to me, when other types of health care may actually prevent disease or cure my disease that i'm not allowed to have.
Can you talk about those dangers?
Yeah, I mean, here's an interesting anecdote is that I um, I went to grad school and I got a master's in health policy administration and my final thesis um, was literally Medicare for all I.
I literally was advocating for, you know, a kind of a universal, I guess, kind of somewhat socialized system, and I really believe that that was the right way to, you know, reach and cover the most people.
It'd be much more cost efficient, it would bring down the price of health care.
And I now believe the exact opposite.
I mean, we need freedom, we need autonomy to make decisions and if again, if you concentrate that power in the health system so that it's kind of one size fits all and what's used is dictated from the top, that's the worst medicine.
I mean, since i've left the medical system because I no longer work in ICUS, I left academia, i'm now in private practice, which is a telehealth practice on my own boss.
I have no one telling me what I can and can't do and i'm literally relearning medicine.
I'm learning about so many approaches to wellness and treatment of illness that they don't teach you in medical school, that apparently there's insufficient evidence for.
But if you look carefully, many of the therapies I use have lots of papers, lots of understandings of their mechanisms, their safety and their efficacy, and so I mean I I find it a really inspiring and very satisfying uh area of medicine to practice in now.
But that's because i'm outside the system and we need to decentralize, we need to get put the power back into the physician Patient relationship.
If you have that socialized system, it's going to be the government who's going to be at the bedside, too.
It's going to be government, physician, and patient.
And we've learned we cannot have the government dictating how we approach our health.
Absolutely not.
We got to take one more break.
The book is The War on Ivermectin.
We're going to come back after this for some final thoughts.
It's Making Sense of the Madness.
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The War on Ivermectin is the book.
The authors Jenna McCarthy and Dr. Pierre Corey have been gracious enough to give us this full hour in this final segment.
You know, we just talked about the possible evils of socialized medicine.
Now, in your respective fields right now, both journalism and medicine, what are we seeing a push for?
Artificial intelligence.
And to me, that takes the human element out of those things.
And as we've already seen with AI, they quote unquote hallucinate and make things up and are only as good as the information that is programmed in them.
Jenna, what's your fear or concern, or maybe you don't have any, of artificial intelligence in journalism, which is now largely being adopted and even discussed in Axel Springer and other big media groups?
It's exactly what you just said.
It is the epitome of Big Brother.
It's not artificial.
It doesn't, you know, just make up an answer.
It's fed certain information and massive volumes of it in order to craft an answer.
I play around with ChatGPT all the time because I think it's hilarious.
And I'll ask how many people have been damaged by the COVID vaccine.
And it will say, you know, well, basically none.
It's super safe and it's important to remember that vaccines are safe and necessary.
So that's, I guess that is what you would call literally artificial intelligence.
It's fake.
It's not intelligence.
So yeah, it's scary.
Just in the publishing world, I've had friends, you know, I've seen posts of author friends who are, they're broken by this because they say, I have three books in various stages of the writing process.
And why bother when somebody can just go to ChatGPT and say, write me an 80,000-word romantic comedy or whatever you're trying to do.
And they're not great.
You know, the book that that program will spit out isn't great, but neither are probably a majority of the books out there in the world.
And the majority of people are probably okay with not great.
Like, it's okay.
It's fine.
They'll keep reading.
If I'm 10 pages into a book that's not great, I'm not wasting my time.
But I think they're that, you know, mediocrity is sort of the norm.
So yeah, it's terrifying to me.
It's terrifying for both of those reasons, for the fact that it is obviously has an agenda.
Artificial intelligence has an agenda.
I said it.
And that it could really take the place of human thought and articulation.
So Dr. Corey, what are your fears in the medical field?
I mean, they're inexhaustible, my fears in the medical field.
I mean, for AI, well, here's, so I'm going to be, I have to be, I'm going to be clear.
I'm not an expert at AI, but the little bit I've learned in terms of medicine is, you know, the AI programs are out there.
They're only as good as what's fed into them.
So, you know, you can influence what that AI will produce depending what data you put in there.
What I've heard is that the AI programs being used to make diagnoses in medicine are actually really good and they approximate the accuracy of the average physician.
Now, if that's all it can do, then I don't know why you need it because it's only equaling the average physician.
But, you know, there are many physicians who are not average and who can make deductions and diagnoses.
And I wonder whether AI is going to have a net positive benefit.
So I think the jury's out on that.
One interesting piece of, so I use AI now.
I use a program for when I see patients, and I find it incredibly actually helpful.
What it does is I turn it on, it's listening to my conversation with my patient, and then it writes my note for me.
I find it really efficient.
And the note is so well put together and designed.
It has all my recommendations, all my education that I do in these visits, and it's highly efficient.
So I'm going to say there's some plus minuses, but I definitely have concerns with how it's going to be used because if it can be used to untoward ends or to goals that will not be good for us, it will be used for that.
Absolutely.
And you know what?
It is a tool.
I use AI with my thumbnails and Photoshop.
And just like any kind of technology, it can be used to empower or enslave.
A hammer can bash a head in.
It can build a house.
The war on ibermectin is the book.
I want to thank you guys so much for this glorious hour of not misinformation or disinformation, but actual information that can empower us to get this out to other people and save lives.
Guys, this has been making sense of the madness.
I want to thank you all for joining me.
And remember, it's ampnews.us Monday through Friday, 6 p.m. Eastern.
See you on the flip side.
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