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Sept. 29, 2022 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
47:49
The Children Must Be Lying This Is Too Dark

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Time Text
Devil's Evidence Reported 00:14:47
Hey everybody, Jason Burmes here.
And if you were watching earlier, we had Derek Brose on to discuss the latest arrest in this very bizarre ritualistic abuse case that stems back decades.
And I want to put it out there right now that if you go to the lastamericanvagabond.com, you can get the latest on the David Hamblin case.
And as you can see, he has been arrested for some pretty brutal things on this program.
We talked about another person in the age range.
I believe this man's 68 years old.
A 66-year-old named Gary Bell, who I believe is also involved in law enforcement, also picked up similar charges being held without bail.
This is great news.
Last American Vagabond, Derek Brose, knocking it out of the park on this one.
All right.
Now, he also suggested that I check out Are the Children Lying?
Which are a bunch of local reports by a guy named Brad Edwards.
Now, I watched about, this is almost a 40-minute video.
I watched about 10 minutes or so of it, and I said, you know what?
Let's just watch the whole thing with everybody.
Let's let everybody else judge out there what they think of this.
What I'll say is this.
First of all, when I first started it up, I noticed the two anchors, not Brad Edwards, right away, okay, for this News Channel 4.
The reason I knew who they were is because they had done some really honest reporting when it came to Oklahoma City and what occurred there and some of the whistleblowers that were told that they got pages that morning before the days of cell phones not to show up to work that morning, that there were drills being run, that there were several devices of explosive nature that were taken out of the building.
All stuff that goes against the grain of the narrative.
I'm like, wow, okay, so this is going to be really interesting.
I can see that there could be some real reporting here.
Now, the next thing I took away from it is what I discussed with Derek in the last segment that I encourage you to go check out all of it, is that we live under this idea that as soon as you attach some kind of Satanism or ritualistic abuse, that we get to a cartoon level, we get to horror shows, and we get to pop culture and kind of the unbelievable nature of it.
Now, you can see on my staff thing right here, Red Jug Pub, it's like a little devil, right?
Again, in pop culture, the reason that this is used for the Red Jug Pub, a bar I used to run, is, you know, it's like bring out your inner devil, have a devil of a good time, let out your wild side, etc.
It's almost a tongue-in-cheek joke because most of us can't fathom, fathom the darkness of actual satanic ritual abuse being carried out.
I mean, it's pretty, believe me, I struggle with it.
I wonder what's going on here.
But at the same time, I've seen real cases of abuse in Hollyweird in politics be marginalized, and then the fake stuff get promoted, right?
And I think a lot of that was going on during the satanic panic era.
That you are going to have crazies come out of the woodwork.
There is going to be this movement to discredit real things.
But those arrests have been made.
I'm very shocked at it.
Without further ado, I want you to thumbs it up, subscribe, share.
Remember, we're rockfin and we're rumbling.
And we're going to do it here on YouTube as well.
But let's start playing this.
Are the children lying?
I'm going to let you guys decide.
A special series of in-your-corner reports called Are the Children Lying?
Brad Edwards tells us about abuse of children so brutal that at first you may not want to believe it.
Brad joins us now with his report.
Well, usually, when you first hear the words satanic ritual abuse, it sounds almost like something made up from a horror movie.
It's a practice that is so brutal, so horrifying, that you don't want to believe it's being done to young children as well as adults.
I'm pretty hard to convince, but when you hear about the abuse from kids, it's difficult not to believe.
Still many in law enforcement who are asked to investigate have to ask the question, are the children lying?
And I'm going to chop up some more, you m******.
I'm a god and I've killed everybody.
Or the devil.
Yeah, you could use the word devil or demons or whatever you want to call it.
You've heard about the high-profile cases, the celebrity murders by Charles Manson.
But let's just stop right there.
Until recently, most people were fully unaware of any type of intelligence connections or protections before chaos came out.
Just want to put that out there.
Yeah, there's a darkness to these people, for sure.
But a lot of the aspects have been hidden from the public eye.
The son of Sam murder case in David Berkowitz, the Night Stalker case in California.
We'll see.
We'll see.
And the case right here in Oklahoma.
Hundreds of murders attributed to Henry Lee Lucas.
Supposed to be for the reincarnation of the devil.
But maybe you haven't heard that satanic ritual abuse was involved in these cases.
We now know.
What we also know is that ritual abuse cases are being reported all over the country.
In Oklahoma alone, last year, 22 cases were confirmed.
It could be happening in your own backyard.
And you'd go in the room and there were other rooms with pregnant women that were having their babies killed up.
And everybody was wearing these black hens and robes.
And they put children in cages and treat them like animals.
Reports like this often come from children put into therapy for behavior problems.
They tell similar stories of people in robes torturing them physically, sexually, and mentally.
The problem is believing them.
That was the problem in the McMartin Daycare case in California.
As many as 41 children were believed to have been satanically ritually abused by their schoolmasters.
The kids revealed stories of being led into tunnels under the school and abused.
It was the longest-running trial in California history, resulting in a minor conviction.
Few believed the kids until parents paid to have the daycare center excavated and found tunnels with satanic paraphernalia and animal bones, just as the kids described.
It was too late to enter into the trial.
And I've noticed in that case, there's like this driving force that that was all a hoax as well.
Now, if that was all a hoax, is what being reported here false?
Again, I'm going to let you guys decide.
The cases I've told you about so far are from around the country, but I didn't have to go far to find cases right here.
I know, you know, I know.
It just hurts that.
A family called to ask for help in getting something done about an alleged molestation case involving people in the Surrey Hills Mormon Church.
That opened the door to another case allegedly involving some of the same church people, where a woman claimed she and her five young children were caged and abused in the worst way, the satanic way.
Have you seen that done?
Have you ever seen a baby killed by them?
Yes, I have.
But you don't know who it belongs to or anything.
No, they've killed a lot of people's babies.
but I don't know who they are.
Well, you say this couldn't be happening, and so did I.
But when you see children in therapy and case after case draw pictures of what was done to them and what they were forced to do, then you stop asking the question: are the children lying, you see?
Well, Brad, besides what you mentioned, what other evidence is there to back up what these children are saying?
That's a big problem that we're going to get into in this series because there is little hard physical evidence.
Nobody can come in and lay something down and say this was used, that was done, and it's very secretive, we're told, so that makes it difficult for prosecutors to go after these cases.
And what I would also say is this is kind of where the circus begins.
If you watch the Geraldo with Gunderson and Aquino, you know, Aquino makes that very point that show the hard evidence, show the evidence this is happening.
Bradley, how widespread is it, and why don't we hear more about it?
Well, I've studied cases from all over the country, independent of each other, yet still describing the same kind of ritual abuse, like some kind of a regular ceremony used elsewhere in the country.
We don't hear more about it because it is so unbelievable.
And police, when they investigate child abuse cases, they hesitate to bring up those words satanic ritual because it's so unbelievable they fear prosecutors will, DAs will not even take the case.
Okay, in part two tomorrow night at 10?
Yes.
Okay, thanks, Brad.
We'll be right back with your letter outlook.
Stay with us.
In your corner series on ritual abuse, and Brad, last night you said there were, I believe, 22 confirmed cases of ritual abuse.
How do they confirm these things?
All right, well, Devin, that information comes from the Department of Human Services Child Abuse Unit.
It's hard to say how many real cases there are because some people simply remember things that never happened.
But in other cases, social workers say victims are traumatized by the brutality.
They're afraid to tell anyone, or they repress it in their mind so they don't remember it until later in life.
We want to warn you, this story is of a graphic nature and parental discretion is advised.
Kiss me on the lips.
He'd have me up against the door just all the time.
He'd want to kiss me on the lips for long.
Was he a married man?
Yes, he was.
Scott McAllister, claiming that a church leader made homosexual advances toward him nine years ago when he was 14 years old.
He'd always want to get contact with me, you know, if he took his shirt off and my shirt off.
And it went to him.
I know several times he had an erection after he was with me.
And I mean, he'd have me on the floor.
He'd want to be on the floor of his office, you know, and into me and always holding me and being affectionate.
And looking back now, he was wanting to.
I was really scared.
Scott said at that time he was being counseled by the church leader concerning his teenage problems.
Scott only revealed his claims recently after his father told him that a church leader molested him when he was a teenager and that he never got over it.
It's time for the lights to be switched on and the masks to come off and the kids to have a chance to heal.
So again, I want to point this out.
His father is acknowledging something that I discussed with Derek again.
When you're sexually abused as a child, that's going to affect you for the rest of your life.
It doesn't leave, guys.
It's something that, again, is part of you.
And the adults that have been abused as kids have a chance to heal and that it's stopped.
Last year, after father and son compared experiences, they filed a police report about Scott's ordeal nine years ago.
The family is frustrated that neither the church nor the police has done anything.
Being quiet and silent is deadly because it will go on and on and on, and all the children will be abused that could have been saved if someone had spoken up.
This one is another picture of the child nude and in a chair with a rope around his neck.
He's being held by and his penis is being poked with a stick by.
And then this one is a picture of the child being nude again with a rope around his neck.
But imagine how much more frustrating it is for the mother of five small children who believes some of the same church people and her own husband satanically ritually abused her and her kids.
Cinder Routon showed me pictures of her kids at a psychologist's office in play therapy, acting out abuse done to them.
Abuse so horrible and disgusting, we can't reveal it all here.
With needles.
They tortured them with needles.
They used ropes.
They put ropes about their necks and their heads and they would yank them, pulling very, very tight.
Enough that they often left rope burns.
These people are sick enough.
They also sexually abuse children.
And indeed, medical examinations of the children state sexual abuse.
The 18-month-old boy with rectal scarring, the four-year-old boy with a hernia scar and an abrasion across the back of his head, and the five-year-old girl with a calloused vagina.
The terror and the torment the children experienced only came out during extensive therapy by a child psychologist.
And let me just stop it there.
When you look at that physical abuse, coupled with whatever else is going on, it's hard to draw another conclusion or the conclusion that these children are being dishonest.
Have you ever seen anything like this before in your career?
Yes.
I've had a few other cases.
Reluctantly.
They were also abused.
Yes.
Ritualistically.
Yes.
And then you think that's what we're looking at here?
Absolutely.
What should be done about this case?
It needs to be investigated quickly.
Now, there's still a lot of questions.
How did Cinder, the mother, not know what was going on with her kids?
How did she and the kids get away?
Tomorrow night, look at what the kids say was done to them.
They tell their story through drawings, and we'll see how they escaped.
Well, at what point, what does it usually take to get kids to psychologists?
At what point do people realize there's a problem?
Well, unusual behavior.
And in this case, the grandmother that pulled the kids out of her daughter's home said things would happen, like the little girl would come in and say, I have to kiss my brothers goodnight.
And she would go in and jump on top of them and French kiss them.
Now, these are kids five and four years old that would not know about these things unless someone had instructed.
Daughter's Dark Secrets 00:16:06
But a whole string of behaviors, some of which I won't describe here, led them to believe these kids needed to be before a counselor.
And we'll talk a little bit more about that tomorrow.
Okay, we'll see you tomorrow night.
Thanks, Brad.
Thanks.
Sexual abuse of children.
Brad Edwards continues his series of reports the story of the five children of Cinder Roten and the horrors they revealed to not one but two different psychologists.
The names of those identified by the kids have been bleeped out since no charge has been filed.
Colonel Discretion is advised for this report.
And he asked me to draw him and he held my hand.
And so this was him in bed and this was, he said that daddy was being mean to him and putting his penis in his mouth.
And then the child took a pen and started stabbing it to make the daddy go away.
He was very angry.
Child psychologist Kay Gillette explaining what the kids drew.
Although she's seen cases of satanic ritual abuse before, the kids' behavior when talking about it is still shocking to her.
Blake started trying to draw.
The only thing he drew were these sticks over and it wasn't until I started trying to talk to him and he was sitting in my lap that his body heat went up so much that it was obviously anxiety.
He changed his demeanor.
He changed everything.
It was at that point that, you know, he was only three, and there's no way he could have faked a feeling, faked body heat, those kinds of things.
The psychologist says the kids draw themselves and their mother in a cage over and over, saying they were put there by their father and a church leader.
They also tell her about murder.
This is a picture drawn by the five-year-old daughter of a witch who had stabbed a baby.
And she described having actually witnessed that, hearing the baby cry.
And seeing blood.
And seeing blood.
This psychologist examined the kids in Texas, where Cinda ran to escape her abusers.
But later she had another psychologist here in Oklahoma City examine the kids, and his findings were exactly the same, that the kids had been ritually abused by Satan worshipers.
My question was, how could all this be happening to little children and the mother not know it?
I asked Cinda.
The children were trying to tell mom something was wrong, only I was so mind-controlled it just went right over my head.
They did draw on the, also on the doors to the bathroom, and now I know that they did a pentagram.
That's what they drew.
In the circles, they had a pentagram drawn.
But at the time, I didn't realize that's what it was, which is a satanic symbol.
It was Cinda's mother during an overnight visit who first noticed something was wrong with the children.
She describes an incident with her granddaughter.
In the kitchen preparing breakfast.
And I heard her screaming, no, no, no, I don't want to.
No.
So I immediately dropped what I was doing right in there, and she picked her up, and she was kicking and screaming.
And I asked her, What is it you don't want to do, honey?
And she immediately stopped, just clammed up, said nothing, and looked at the floor.
She wouldn't look at me.
Mrs. Roton told Cinda to come and live with her in Texas.
Roton then went to pick up the kids and was shocked at what happened when their father came out.
And he squats down beside the car and he says to his daughter, give daddy love.
And she looked and says, no, I don't want to.
He's looked at her and she jumped in his lap.
And he looked right at me and he picked her up with his hands on her feet.
And he would run his hands up into her crotch as he threw her into the car.
And he did this several times, staring at me.
Cinda divorced her husband, and during those lengthy proceedings, both psychologists testified about the satanic ritual abuse.
Before they could testify a second time, Cinda's husband stopped the custody proceedings and voluntarily gave up all parental rights to his children.
But there is little hard evidence of abuse, only what the victims say.
People don't remember, and if you do remember, you don't want anybody to think you're crazy, so therefore you don't tell anyone.
But some do believe.
I received a copy of a secret study done by a member of the Mormon Church hierarchy in Salt Lake City.
Bishop Glenn Pay says he met with 60 victims of satanic ritual abuse.
He says it could have been two or three times that number if he hadn't limited himself.
Here's some of the incredible things the document states.
That 45 victims allege witnessing and or participating in human sacrifice.
They were abused by family members or relatives.
He says children are put into situations where they believe they're going to die, such as being buried alive or being placed in a plastic bag and being immersed in water.
He says the kids are told to pray to Jesus to see if he saves them.
When he doesn't, the Satan worshiper pulls them out, making the kids loyal to him.
In the document, he says when 60 witnesses testify to the same type of torture and murder, it becomes impossible for him personally not to believe them.
Back in Oklahoma, the Rotons are furious that no one's arrested in their case.
But Piedmont Police Chief Don Payne has investigated.
There's not much doubt in my mind that the children were physically and sexually assaulted and molested.
And from the description of the case, may have been in a cult or satanic manner.
And may have included multiple suspects.
Chief Payne says the only thing preventing him from making arrest is that Cinda won't allow him and the Canadian County District Attorney to interview her children.
He says that has to be done.
Cinda says she will give them videotapes of the kids' testimony to the psychologist, and that should be enough.
She says it would be cruel to put the kids through all of this again.
And their grandmother agrees.
These are the horrible things that have happened to my grandchildren.
And the perpetrators are still walking around free.
They're not in their graves.
The case is still open in the Piedmont Police Department.
Cinda and other church members point out that their accusations are not against the Mormon church, just against several people that happen to be in the Mormon church.
And indeed, our investigation found complaints of satanic ritual abuse elsewhere in our area.
Brad will tell you about that and talk with the child victims tomorrow night as we continue.
Are the children lying?
Understandably, many people refuse to believe it when they first hear of satanic ritual abuse, but many of those who give therapy to the victims soon become believers themselves.
Tonight, Brad Edwards continues with, Are the Children Lying?
A look into the abuse of kids by satanic cults.
And I guess the pretty key question here is just how widespread is this?
Well, Devin, I've studied many cases around the nation.
I found many cases here locally.
I'll tell you how those happened, and we'll actually talk with some of the young victims tonight.
But even hearing what the kids say in therapy, many refuse to believe that satanic ritual abuse is going on.
The problem with investigating satanic ritual abuse is the lack of hard evidence.
I searched locations where abuse victims thought the satanic rituals were held.
Little was found.
A doll's head in a farm building and what some might think to be an altar made of stone cemented together inside the foundation of a decayed house.
We searched old cemeteries where victims' bodies are said to be buried and others dug up for use in the rituals.
But there is little evidence other than what the victims say.
There was one that was live in those pigs and chickens and stuff.
And there was a swimming pool and they would make us stab them and the rubbers were down into the pool there and make us drink it.
They actually made you drink blood?
Yes.
What was that like?
Tastes bad.
This little boy and his sister were reportedly abused by their mother and other cult members.
They told me it happened after daddy went to work, sometimes in the house and sometimes in the woods.
He remembers the details such as what he wore when taken to the satanic rituals.
They made us wear dark stuff with cars that start coming down and would be able to see us.
Oh, had you wear dark stuff so the cars wouldn't be able to see you?
Yes.
Let's see.
Remembering those kind of details or having specialized knowledge that a three-year-old wouldn't normally know are signs that the kids are telling the truth.
That's according to Dr. Cecilia Beckham, a child psychologist who has treated many ritually abused children.
They give you a thousand incidences of things, and they just know why someone could program all that material.
I couldn't hold on to all that material, let alone a three-year-old child.
The little boy we interviewed is now six.
Still, when he decided to tell us about his abuse, he became nervous and had to hide behind a blanket to tell us the worst experiences.
Well, there was one time they made all these fires and they killed babies.
Were it real babies?
Real babies.
Were the babies crying?
Yes.
Let's see.
His sister, now five years old, also remembers very well what happened almost three years ago and no longer fears to talk about it.
Did they ever touch you?
Did they touch you in a bad way?
Yeah.
Can you tell me about that?
Tell me a little bit about how they did it.
They touched me where my private parts were.
Did they take pictures while they were doing this?
Yeah.
You the only one?
The only child?
My brother was there, too, but he didn't see what happened.
He didn't see what happened?
I was able to ask leading questions.
Child psychologists can't do that since the kids' information might be used in a divorce case.
But to get the kids over the fear of telling, it can sometimes take months, sometimes a year, of watching the kids act out what was done to them.
A kind of terror.
I mean, these children truly believe that when they tell, they will be struck dead.
This one boy said that he had a bomb plant alongside of him.
And I'm sure they staged that very effectively for him to believe that.
And that when he told, he would explode.
So they are very convinced that to tell is to die.
The grandparents took in the two kids and their father for their safety.
They have organized a support group now for survivors and parents of survivors of satanic ritual abuse.
There are now about 30 or more members, all frustrated that police haven't been able to make any arrests in their cases.
Did call our local police department and they did not believe me.
And they didn't think that kind of thing went on.
And I got real scared, and I decided they weren't going to help me.
In Oklahoma City, police detective Bob Smart says they do investigate, but many of the stories have too many holes in them.
Or the bones from the child?
Because they won't eat the bones.
Where did it occur?
Did it occur inside of the house?
Did it occur outside of a field?
Those type of answers.
And they say, well, I can't remember.
And that's the problem with it.
Their stories are not documentable.
Another problem, Smart says, is that the abused kids testifying in court are easy to confuse.
So it could be that the person who hurt these kids will remain free to hurt others, while these kids may be scarred forever by the memories.
Well, I don't know if they made all noises, but I know the kids did.
What noises were the kids making?
They were screaming and yelling and everything.
Now, tomorrow night, we take a look at what are called the dabblers, and those are kids who think it's cool to get into satanic worship, and the results are often very tragic.
All the more dangerous.
Local cases.
What are you hearing so far, the response to what we've been hearing?
Well, we've had a few calls from members of the Mormon church who have accused us of saying that satanic ritual or satanic worship is part of the Mormon church.
And of course, we did not say that.
Just a couple of members of the church.
Just a couple of members of the church.
Well, we've also heard from quite a few people, which surprised me, who are victims of satanic ritual abuse and thanked us for tackling this subject because they've suffered all their lives with people who don't believe it.
When they tell them these stories, they think they're crazy.
Have police ever made arrests?
Yes, I received from California from a call awareness group a long list of arrests and convictions from around the country, which we were not aware of.
And many people don't know that there have been cases actually convicted.
Between the secrecy and the age of the kids, it's really tough.
It is tough to nail down.
Okay, we'll see you tomorrow night.
Thanks.
Dabbling with Satan worship.
And we've seen some of those tragedies right here in Oklahoma.
And fortunately, tonight, it's our focus during this last part of our special In Your Corner series are the children lying.
Brad Edwards is here to talk about that.
How do people get involved in these cults to begin with, Brad?
Parents are sitting at home wondering what can you do to prevent it?
It is a good question, and the cases we've looked into so far appear to be generational.
Satanic worship passes past from one generation of a family to another, like other religions.
Now, at a lower level are the dabblers, usually teenagers who play with satanic rituals, but sometimes get sucked in so far they find there's no turning back.
As it's a hole, it's Satan!
You are watching SVN, the Satanic Broadcast Network.
And again, you look at this stuff, and it looks cartoon-level.
It looks harmless.
When I was growing up, I thought, you know, the people that actually believed in this were like the goth kids wearing makeup that didn't have friends and couldn't get girlfriends.
You never think that this stuff is going to hit the upper echelons of political power ever.
Satan worshipers with their own cable program on the Satanic Broadcast Network.
Less for entertainment and more for recruiting others into the cult.
Join the cult.
Recruit others.
The lure seems to be everywhere for young people seeking excitement.
Satanic comic books, catalogs of the occult, order ritual tools and robes, and books telling how to perform the rituals.
It may start out as youthful rebellion, but these parents in South Oklahoma City say their daughter's dabbling resulted in keeping them awake at night.
I hear it, and she was standing right over there cussing me for everything she could think of.
Called me every bug or name, but she'd get put through her mouth.
And said, you gray-haired son of a bitch, I won't say like said it.
I'll slice you up and salt you down as you go.
I'll kill you.
I'll kill you.
The parents said their daughter began dabbling when they lived in East Texas.
After they moved here, they claim they lost control of her.
They believe she's involved in animal mutilations, crime, and drugs.
They worried when they found butcher knives missing from the kitchen.
Her room shows satanic signs.
Ironically, while doing research for these reports, I had looked for books on satanic rituals in the Metropolitan Public Library, but found they were checked out.
They were all here in the daughter's bedroom.
Blood Secrets, the true story of demon worship and ceremonial murder.
The parents said, once again, their daughter had become suicidal and was now confined to a hospital psychiatric unit.
You may remember another dabbler who came to trial in 1986.
Sean Sellers said he regretted getting into the occult after killing both his parents and a convenience store clerk.
So I'm talking about Dungeons and Dragons, Satanism, the occult, magic, anything that's like that.
Satanic Secrets Revealed 00:06:08
Anything that the stuff that we've been warned about that we didn't believe is true.
It's true.
Next month, another case comes up in Oklahoma County.
Jimmy Ray Slaughter was indicted in the deaths of an Edmund woman and her daughter.
Satanic involvement was suspected after learning the victim's breasts and genitals were mutilated with some sort of sharp instruments.
FBI spokesman Dan Vogel says satanic worship is not against the law up to a point.
I know that we have to be extremely careful in law enforcement because those rights are protected under the Constitution.
And it may not necessarily be the most popular thing, but if you want to worship Satan, that's your right to do that in this country.
And really, we can't go out and investigate that kind of activity.
Now, if you're engaging in criminal violations or state or federal law violations as part of that activity, then definitely we're interested.
Well, that's where it's at, right?
And I'm, you know, again, freedom of religion guy.
But you have to understand on all levels, all different forms, especially of Satanism.
Forget about the occult.
And again, some of this is very occultic and maybe outside of Luciferianism or Satanism.
But at all levels, Satanism is really a self-serving religion, even those that adhere to really atheism and just being anti-Christian, right?
There are different sects, but ultimately, what it leads to is the kind of darkness you're seeing here and the inversion of reality.
And some believe the dabblers in the occult often end up at that point and can't come back, like Sean Sellers now on death row.
It's true.
I never knew it.
And I would have fought you a long time ago when I was playing DD if it had any connections such as the cultic.
But now I know.
And there's nothing I can do to bring my parents back to life.
A sad thought.
All this week we've focused on victims of satanic ritual abuse.
While there are some who believe it just doesn't happen, we've heard from many more victims since our series began.
Now, if you're involved or victimized, call or in your corner hardline at 478-6363.
There is a support group here and several cult awareness groups we can refer you to and just leave us a message.
That commercial that you ran at the first from the Satanic Broadcasting Network, where did that air?
I have never that aired down in Austin, Texas, I believe on the public access channel, and anybody can get on that.
They can't be discriminated against, including Satan worshipers.
Unbelievable.
All right, thanks, Brett.
Tonight, we're going to tell you about one family's cycle of alleged sexual abuse.
What most consider a safe haven was their living hell.
The father of the family was allegedly molested by a Mormon bishop in Utah more than 20 years ago.
And now this ex-bishop at Surrey Hills is accused of sexually molesting the man's son.
Five years reporter Kid Williams has their story.
And in the case with me, he just put one hand on my knee, you know, ran up to my thigh, and unzipped my pants.
And he just enfombled me.
And so you absolutely go into a state of shock.
Jack McAllister writes about the sexual abuse he allegedly suffered at the hands of his bishop for three years.
He says he was only 16 when it began.
Even sadder, he claims his parents never questioned what went on behind closed doors.
He just laughed.
He said, who are you going to tell?
And then I realized, yeah, who am I going to tell?
He said, I'm the bishop.
You're just a kid.
Who do you think they're going to believe?
McAllister was able to bury his private hell until his son told him he had lived through the same thing.
How did you feel when your son said that the same thing had happened to him?
About the time that you think you can't hurt more than you already do.
You realize that some way or other, I wasn't smart enough, even as a dad and even as a silent survivor of the situation, to recognize when my own son was being trapped in the same situation.
I finally listened to him's story, and I listened to him, and I think, so, well, that happened to me, too.
Well, Ron Phelps did that, you know, my bishop did that to me.
What are you crying about?
I was like, wasn't a bishop supposed to do that?
The McAllisters aren't saying what goes on behind these church doors is wrong.
They do say it's the members' blind faith and church leaders that leave them and their children vulnerable.
If it was anyone else, only the bishop, we have boundaries, and anyone else, I would have punched him right in the mouth and said, no way, this is weird, what you're doing.
Scott McAllister says his bishop, Ronald Phelps, started fondling and kissing him when he was 14 years old.
The abuse allegedly continued until Scott was 20.
The McAllisters filed a complaint with the Oklahoma City Police Department last September.
The police have not yet filed charges, but the case is under investigation.
Then in December, a University of Oklahoma police officer arrested Phelps on a charge of indecent exposure.
It was reduced to two misdemeanor charges of outraging public decency and engaging in prostitution.
A report from the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation shows Phelps was picked up for indecent exposure in 1980, but that charge was dropped.
Ronald Phelps refused to talk to me, but his attorney told me his client denies the accusations and says the McAllisters are taking their case to the media instead of the courts.
Well, look what's happened with the courts.
Seems like you get to game the system again when you're a person of prominence in religious sex, political sex, entertainment sex.
We see it time and time again.
And that's why it's so refreshing to see David Hamblin being arrested and what seems to be this case in Utah moving forward.
We got about nine more minutes of this put together in a good great job by Derek Burrows, Last American Vagabond series from local news channel 4 back in the 90s.
Scott says coming forward hasn't been easy.
Scott's Harrowing Tale 00:08:31
His family is facing excommunication from the church and he's undergone months of intensive therapy.
The only reason why I'm doing this is if I can help the next 14-year-old boy out there that didn't know what molesting was.
Kit Williams, Five News.
The police abused them.
About 100 people showed up to protest Judge Charles Humble's ruling.
He ordered Greg Carey to give his two young children back to their natural mother.
Instead, five-year-old Kristen and six-year-old Greg disappeared with their paternal grandmother.
The Careys say the judge's decision endangered the children's lives.
Man, how he could do this, how he could take them out of a safe environment and put them back in jeopardy.
Greg Carey is scheduled to appear in court for contempt on Monday.
The mother's attorney denies the allegations, saying Greg Carey is a desperate man who would do anything to keep his children.
Prosecuted for reporting it and persecuted.
The story stems from a special in your corner series called Are the Children Lying?
Family of the Surrey Hills Mormon Church say that their son revealed he'd been molested by his church bishop when he was 14 years old.
And now his mother, who led a fight to get something done, has been forced out of the church.
Finally, Bright Edwards continues his investigation to find out, are the children lying?
Meredith and Jack McAllister say when their son was a troubled teen, his church bishop offered to take him into his home and help him.
Scott was 14 then.
When he reached age 22, he revealed to his father that in the home and in the church, his bishop had molested him.
Now, the bishop was still active in the church, and they felt something should be done.
But they say nothing was.
So the McAllisters took their story public.
Now, our investigation revealed that the former bishop was caught in a sting operation in an OU men's restroom, allegedly exposing himself to an undercover policeman.
Ultimately, the former bishop was excommunicated, but the McAllisters say it was for the wrong reasons.
My understanding is what he was excommunicated for was his actions down in the OU restroom.
He's never admitted sexually abusing our son or other young members of the church, and so the parents still aren't warned.
I mean, that's the problem.
Next, Meredith was excommunicated, she says, for going public with the story of her son's molestation.
He's been excommunicated for going to the press and making this public, making claims.
They say that we can't back up.
Their Mormon church president says the church never covered up for its former bishop.
They just couldn't prove the McAllister story.
He said the church council felt it was time for the McAllisters to be held responsible for their constant accusations.
We have a tremendous responsibility, we feel, to make sure that we don't involve ourselves in the tragedy of innocent people being accused and their lives and their families destroyed.
Oh.
Oh, innocent people being accused.
Oh, I see where you're at.
But the McAllisters say there are other cases in the church that haven't been resolved.
Cinder Rowden says the same bishop was involved in the satanic ritual abuse of her and her children.
A psychologist confirms that medical tests and psychological tests show that Cinda's kids were ritualistic abused.
The kids drew pictures of the abuse and named the people who abused them, including the church bishop that the McAllisters say molested their son.
They are all go through a so-called repentance process a year's time and then they're put back in full or full activity.
Full activity.
He could be a scout master a year from now.
He could be called again to be a bishop or a mission leader, over 250 missionaries, and they would consider his repentance process as being complete.
No charges have been filed against the former bishop in any abuse cases, but the McAllisters say they have been excommunicated for complaining about him.
And they say they will continue to complain until something is done.
I'm Brad Edwards in your corner.
So I want to point out there, again, this pattern of where somebody does something pretty abhorrent, okay, and then it gets pled down and then gets accused of something even more abhorrent.
And instead of just having to plead down, there's no charges ever.
And people take to their defense and they can be reshuffled into the same system that they were abusing.
Incidents of child sexual abuse.
Victims of abuse spoke out in today's Sunstone Symposium in Salt Lake.
Jack McAllister says he was molested by his bishop as a teenager.
And years later, he says his son was molested by another bishop.
McAllister says his son's abuse was hushed up by the local stake president.
That these things do go on in the church.
They go on everywhere else in the world.
And just because a person has a title in front of their name, sometimes we trust too much.
McAllister wants the church to stop closed-door interviews about worthiness or to have at least two people in the room during the interviews with no discussions about sex.
McAllister is a former bishop himself.
He has to be removed from the church membership list this year because of the alleged cover-up of his son's abuse.
The church is not commenting.
What the annual Sunstone Symposium says church officials sometimes shoot the messenger.
What they do sometimes is excommunicate members who loudly complain when their children are molested by church leaders.
A case in point has been unfolding for a year in a Mormon ward in Oklahoma.
KU2V's Michael Rawson reports.
It began a year ago with frightening drawings from several children who claimed they had been molested by their father, by a Mormon bishop, and by several other adults in satanic rituals in Oklahoma City.
The children's story was greeted with disbelief by most Mormons in the Oklahoma ward.
After all, the children's parents were involved in a bitter custody battle.
But for Jack McAllister, their cries carried the ring of truth.
As a young man, 30 years ago, he was molested by another bishop in Oklahoma.
McAllister spoke of his experience tonight at the Sunstone Symposium on Child Sexual Abuse in the Mormon culture.
And so that night, I finally confronted him.
I said, I don't want you to come near me.
I don't want you to touch me.
I don't want to have anything else to do with you ever again.
And he said, or you're what?
And I said, well, I'll tell.
And then I realized that he knew all alarm because he said, oh, yeah, he laughed.
He said, who will you tell?
I'm the bishop.
You're only a kid.
Who do you think they're going to believe?
When McAllister's son Scott heard his father's story last year, he shocked his family by saying the same thing happened to him.
Scott said he was sexually assaulted by his bishop from the time he was 14 until he was 20.
The same man that children were now accusing of being the leader of the satanic cult.
The McAllisters told their story to local church leaders.
When they were slow to act, the family and several other Mormons complained to the Oklahoma media about sexual abuse and cover-up in the Mormon church.
Brad Edwards tells us about abuse of children so brutal that at first you may not want to believe it.
LDS leaders were quick to respond to the criticism, excommunicating Meredith McAllister, Jack's wife, and Scott's mother, and excommunicating a close friend of the family.
In an open letter to Oklahoma Mormons, the state president said the McAllisters and their supporters were guilty of leading a witch hunt and bringing public ridicule and defamation to the church.
But shortly after the letter, the former bishop who was the center of the allegations, Ronald Phelps, pleaded guilty to masturbating in front of an undercover officer in a college bathroom.
The McAllisters told the Sunstone audience tonight that they didn't start out to damage the church.
They just wanted to protect children.
I'm willing to sacrifice my membership in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rather than be bound by silence from spiritual intimidation.
Jack McAllister resigned his church membership in protest.
He says he is campaigning now to warn other young Mormon men, in his words, to make sure the priesthood counsel they receive is spiritual, not physical.
I Want to Thank You 00:01:44
Michael Rawson, KUTV, Two News.
And that wraps it up, guys.
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