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Aug. 26, 2022 - Info Warrior - Jason Bermas
42:42
Mormon Horrors Revealed By A Conscious Resistance?

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Brose's Utah Investigation 00:02:55
Hey everybody, Jason Burmes here.
Buckle up because this one's been a big request over the last couple of months.
A lot of people want to know what's going on in Utah.
Obviously, the cases that we have gone over both solo and with Derek Brose, although there were no convictions, what is alleged in the documents was extremely disturbing and warranted really a bigger and broader investigation.
And through The Last American Vagabond, Derek Brose has done that investigation.
So I want to encourage people, first of all, to go over there and check not only his articles out, but especially this documentary that really had not been seen before.
I had never seen this documentary or heard about it, but it was one of those things that was going around in circles via VHS, I believe back in the 80s and 90s.
And it is, I would say, essential material, especially when we get into the latest article, which I believe he either released today or yesterday, which gets into Bishop Walton Hunter, who is an associate of Gordon B. Hinckley.
So without further ado, here is my man, Derek Brose of The Conscious Resistance.
And Derek, I just want to say thank you so much for not only coming on the program, but doing the legwork in a really dark topic that not only warrants much more, I would say, light on its darkness because of the child aspect and the abuse of kids and how we should really hold people's feet to the fire on that and protect our children, but because of the upper echelons, power levels,
and money that is being used and utilized through numerous organizations, especially, at least in this case, if we are to believe the victims, if you will, the Mormon Church.
So if you would, Derek, let's start with where we started last time and where you've gone from there and how you came into this, you know, honing in on the Mormon Church itself.
Yeah, of course.
Thanks again, brother, for having me on.
And actually, and I think I mentioned this in our last interview, but way back in the beginning of June, my initial way I found out about all this stuff happened in Utah was through your first report that you did whenever the sheriffs in Utah County announced that they were investigating ritualized child sex abuse.
So I watched your video about it, and then I kind of started diving in deeper, and that ended up becoming a five-article series that we talked about on our last interview.
And so that series focused specifically on, again, that announcement by the Utah County Sheriff's Office.
They're investigating ritualized child sex abuse in three different counties in Utah.
County Attorney's Ukrainian Connection 00:05:15
So I looked at what is that case about, as you mentioned, we went into some of the documents related to that case.
A man who's been accused of all kinds of horrible things, including claims of Luciferianism and Satanism and rituals and stuff going on.
Well, as it stands today, we have heard no further announcement from the Utah County Sheriff's Office.
So that, as far as we know, that investigation is still open.
And in fact, through my series of articles, I started to find out that there's actually, that we know for sure we can confirm now that the FBI is involved.
We also, if you remember that county attorney David Levitt just randomly put his foot in his mouth and said, hey, I'm not a cannibal.
I'm not involved in this.
I promise I'll not murder.
Because he said that he was listed in the documents related to the case.
The police at no point have ever named any specific suspects and they've never confirmed whether he is a suspect.
But, you know, myself, yourself, others who looked at the documents, David Levitt is named in there from, you know, decades ago, him and his wife being accused of some pretty crazy things and some abuse of children and some really horrible things happening.
So he inserted himself into the investigation.
He started to talk about this.
Well, we did subsequently learn that he's actually under investigation by the Department of Homeland Security related to an adoption that he did probably more than a decade ago involving a Native American girl in Montana, where at the least it seems like he bent the rules to make sure he could get this young girl adopted into his family.
She's now been in his family for over a decade.
So it's really if I'm wrong also in this, there was some kind of a weird Ukrainian connection with this gentleman too.
Yeah, so David, yeah, I mean, this is, I think this is probably maybe an area I'll focus on soon enough, but I haven't fully, without a doubt, there are some Ukrainian connections.
There's a couple of things.
So back in, I think 2012, 2013, around that time, right around the time the Ukrainian first issue was happening in 2014, the supposed revolution that I think people who study that know that's not really the case.
David Levitt has the Levitt Foundation.
And as I mentioned before, David Levitt, his family, the Levitts, they are powerful Utah family that go back in the church, you know, 100 plus years.
His brother became governor of Utah.
His father, very powerful man in the insurance industry.
So they have the Levitt Foundation, which interestingly enough is dedicated to helping children.
And sometimes, and I'm not saying 100% his case, but as you know, Jason, sometimes the people, it's like the Fox Guard in the hen house, right?
It's like they create the foundations and then come to find out, you know, they're involved in things.
But so he has a, he, he has this Levitt Foundation that's been going to Ukraine since 2014, trying to spread democracy and help children and do these different things.
So when this most recent conflict broke out, there was some news articles saying county attorney David Levitt flies to Ukraine because he said he needs to go pick up some documents from an apartment he has out there.
I don't know what that's about or, you know, and I think, like I said, I don't think we have the full story, but there's definitely some Ukrainian connection.
Unfortunately, you know, if this man is suspected of trafficking, he's county attorney, but he's at least being investigated right now for this adoption scheme where he essentially bragged that he, you know, made some calls and scratched some backs and then they was able to get this adoption shouldn't have been able to happen because there are laws specifically against adopting Native children from reservations.
Well, he got, he made a deal where he said, hey, you know, the Ukrainians, they don't have any buffalo.
You guys are the tribe he was talking to in Montana.
He's like, you guys are rich in Buffalo.
So perhaps we can do an exchange.
You know, if you help me get this adoption, I might be able to talk to my Ukrainian buddies and get a, you know, an exchange of buffalo and this and that.
And so I don't know if that ever took place, but he was at least trying to offer that and claim that he had he had that sort of connections.
So yeah, in time, we've come to find out that David Levitt has lied several times, the county attorney.
For one, he claimed that the victims that make the accusations against him in the documents that are at least part of the bigger investigation, he said that the woman was a unstable, mentally ill person and that the case, you know, the case that names him was dismissed because it was untenable, unbelievable, lack of evidence.
I mean, he said a dozen different things, just trying to disparage the case and the person.
And then shortly after that, local media reported and showed they went back and found the court records and listened to the audio and the transcripts.
And at no point did either attorney say, this is ludicrous.
There's no basis here.
In fact, the man in the documents where David Levitt is also accused, his attorney says, if he's found guilty, he's going to be put away for life in prison because these accusations are so horrible.
So he was acknowledging that, you know, these are pretty strong accusations.
He wasn't saying.
you know, Your Honor, this case has no basis in reality.
Let's just dismiss it out of hand.
So there's just been numerous incidents in the last couple months, this summer really, that we've seen David Levitt put his foot in his mouth and then keep talking.
He just keeps talking to the media.
And, you know, I think he's definitely under investigation.
It's clear he's under investigation.
Now, he did end up losing the election because you might remember that his way of deflecting this was trying to say that the sheriffs and some local Republicans were coming after him because of the primaries were coming up at the end of June.
Well, he lost that primary.
So coming January, he will no longer be county attorney.
He'll just be a civilian.
Started to Look at History Claims 00:10:43
And I think, you know, we could see some action take place maybe after that.
Maybe they're waiting till he's not in office before they make a move.
But without a doubt, we know that he's being investigated by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security.
And that seems to be totally separate from the initial Utah County Sheriff's investigation into ritual abuse.
There might be some overlap.
But yeah, so as I started to investigate all that, I started to look at the history of these claims in Utah.
And then I started to look at the history of these claims, specifically in the Mormon church.
And that's when a lot of people started to send me more material and, hey, I've heard this or I experienced this.
I witnessed this.
And that eventually led to, you know, the story we're talking about today, the tapes and everything else.
So let's talk about that because you are now the first person to upload this to the internet.
It's over on Rumble right now, by the way.
We're streaming live on Rumble, and they've been really good so far about censorship.
It doesn't look like this is coming down.
And I wanted to view this before I had you on, obviously, to see not only the gravity of the claims, but who was making them and really how they coincided with one another.
I didn't know what I was stepping into.
And for those that don't know it, this is just a short, under 30-minute documentary where you basically have four eyewitnesses, a couple that had worked with, I believe it was Hunter, Walton Hunter, and had seen Gordon Hinckley at these parties that were being set up above businesses.
And then the people that were working for Hunter in these businesses, at least a couple of them, one was doing money laundering.
One was having a homosexual affair with Gordon B. Hinckley, according to him.
The other would round up more traditional prostitutes.
And then there was also a couple of the guests in the parties, but they all acknowledged on top of this that sometimes there were teenage boys somewhere between 15 and 16 there.
So first of all, how did you get this tape?
And second of all, what I thought was really impressive is that you went by piece by piece and tried to find out what had happened to these people and tried to contact them if they were indeed still around.
Tell us what happened there.
Yeah, absolutely.
So as I mentioned, I started to get, once we did the original five-part series and I ended my fifth part with like, hey, here's a bunch of accusations I found about the Mormon church, the PACE membo, the book paper dolls.
I mean, there's just, there's something there for sure.
And people just started to reach out, man.
I mean, honestly, it felt like, you know, a chance to do some real journalism and to follow up with this story because somebody reached out and essentially said, hey, I have a copy of this VHS tape.
It was handed to me by, you know, a friend.
I've been holding on to it.
I haven't really looked at it in 20 or 30 years.
It's called The True Story of Gordon B. Hink, Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley.
And would you be interested in seeing this?
And of course, I'm like, okay, well, let me check this out.
When I started doing research, I couldn't find anything about this tape.
I searched long and hard, and the only place I could find any reference to it, there's this one website called xmormons.org, which is basically a forum for former Mormons to come share their experiences and stuff.
And there's two or three blogs on there that reference it.
They don't even have the right title of it.
It's just like, hey, I think there's this video about the truth of Gordon B. Hinckley.
And so it was this sort of like almost mythological tape that was out there that was at some point out there, but I couldn't find any copy of it anywhere on the internet.
You know, I searched all the usual places, but also some more obscure places and searched torrent sites and everywhere else you can think of and couldn't find a copy of it.
So I figured, all right, this is probably worth, you know, receiving and was able to get the tape sent over to Ryan, the last American Vagabond.
Ryan happened to just have a connection to get it digitized.
So he got it digitized.
You know, and that's the thing is we immediately took precautions just because the person who is sending this to us and actually several of the people I've spoken to while investigating this are people who themselves claim to have been wiretapped by the Mormon church.
People claim to have been driven off the street, claim to have been threatened in different ways.
I was told by one source, quote, you're putting your mouth in the lion's, you know, you're putting your head in the lion's mouth, things of that sort.
So it felt, you know, very real.
Like, okay, I know the church is very, they love to file lawsuits and defend their name.
And even though we're dealing with people who are now deceased, Gordon B. Hinckley, who was the Mormon president until 2008 when he died, but he is a huge, he's like a huge figure.
And also for people to understand in the Mormon church and the LDS, their leaders, their presidents are seen as prophets.
They're not just like, you know, a politician.
Like they kind of hold them up to a higher degree.
So clearly, somebody, I think, in the past, went to an effort, and I found out they did go to an effort to keep this tape from being online and coming out at the time.
And, you know, so I don't know if they care now.
It's out there.
I did email the Mormon church directly.
I told them what we had the day before we published and sought comment.
I also sent out a press release with these stories, except for the third one, which we just published today, to every single media outlet in Salt Lake City and the surrounding areas.
And so they're aware of that.
I mean, I think that if they choose to cover it, we'll see.
But the Mormon Church is already kind of under fire for some other allegations against them that the Associated Press has been breaking.
So they're dealing with a lot of this.
And the reason I wanted to cover this, once I did receive the tape and I watched it, and I was like, okay, there's something here, but I don't want to just throw it out on the internet.
You know, that would be one approach.
And if it's one approach, I could have just uploaded online and just did a video talking about it.
But it felt like, you know what, there's more here.
I should really dig in and see, can I verify any of this?
Because on the surface, as you mentioned, Jason, it's four different people sharing their testimony.
And then there's a guy named Bill Claude, who was the lead investigator, and he is the one who set up a lot of these interviews.
And this tape that I have, which is about 30 minutes long, is a part of another series of tapes that were six to eight hours long, which I don't know if they even exist anymore or if we'll ever see them.
But that was, this is like the most whole version of these interviews.
And Bill Clawden had said he had, you know, these affidavits plus other affidavits from other folks that weren't featured in here.
And he was kind of challenging the church at the time when this tape came out in the late 80s, early 90s to take him to court.
He was hoping they would because he, you know, I even found out later through some of my investigation that he did have a meeting with Gordon B. Hinkley's attorneys who were trying to get him to get rid of it or destroy it.
And we're offering some money and he said he wasn't interested in the money.
But yeah, I mean, so even though this is dealing with people who are not who are no longer with us, I still think that this matters because if the Mormon church is still dealing with accusations of covering up sexual abuse as they are today in 2022, and we can see that a man who rose to the very top at the time of these accusations, he was only apostle.
He was still up there, but he wasn't the top of the church.
He would eventually rise to the top of the church.
And in his presidency, he helped really grow the Mormon church to where it is now.
I mean, I don't know if this is sort of, you know, when we were younger, but the church in the 70s and 80s was still looked upon by a lot of people as not a legitimate religion, like as a cult in a lot of ways.
And they have legitimized themselves to a degree that we haven't seen in the last 30 years.
Well, let's talk about the 80s because that's when you started to see it.
That's where there was a real media push for those that don't know and didn't grow up in my generation.
But the Church of Latter-day Saints would constantly have commercials on and they would place them usually in like the after school broadcasting.
You'd see them in that 3 to 6 p.m. realm or during prime time.
And, you know, the Mormons really through PR kind of legitimized their lifestyle and religion while marginalizing the ideas that a lot of these people were outwardly abusing children.
I mean, they were taking wives at 13, 14 years old.
This was going on in public and not really being challenged.
And that would make these allegations really more relevant, obviously.
But I think, again, what's important and people have to realize is that some of the allegations here were the money laundering of, say, $75,000 at a time.
And basically, the man who claims to basically have worked for Hunter forever and then had this affair with Hinckley and was washing the money would get 10% of that money.
So he would get $7,500 a hit.
And he would say, this was all about money and power.
This isn't about religion or God.
And I want to make that very clear because I'm not coming after people that do the right thing, that aren't involved in these salacious activities, that believe in God, Christianity, or anything like that.
But when you look at the upper echelons and all of them, it doesn't matter if you're looking at Judaism, Catholicism, and now Mormons, just like in our political system, the most perverse, corrupt, sociopathic, and psychopathic people seem to rise to the top if we're to take what we're finding out as truth.
So let's continue there because, again, you're doing your homework and you're going after the names.
You actually start finding death certificates on some of these people.
Yeah, so I just want to add one point there before you jump into that.
You're totally right, though, about that expansion that took place in the 80s of the Mormon church.
And I think the reason that's relevant too is because that, you know, like you talked about, they started playing commercials and just, you know, they were remaking their image.
That was all Gordon B. Hinckley.
Gordon B. Hinckley was responsible for buying numerous radio stations and television stations.
And they formed the Bonneville International Corporation, which is just like the Mormon-owned media corporation that actually does produce some shows that are on Amazon and places like that.
People might not realize they're being funded by the Mormon church.
And in that time, the Mormon Church also, you know, a lot of people are paying attention to how much land Bill Gates owns.
The Mormon church is right behind Bill Gates with being the number one organization, religious organization that owns massive amounts of land across the United States.
So they have a lot more power and strength than people might realize.
And to your other point, that yes, this is not an attack.
You know, I don't want to say I will attack the Mormon church, but I will say the more I study it, the more I'm convinced that this isn't just a few bad apples.
That doesn't mean that everybody who attends a Mormon church, of course, is aware of these things or knows about these things.
That's how these things work is people believe they're participating in something that maybe at the highest levels, there's an awareness that there's something else going on.
And as you were saying earlier, too, Jason, I mean, there's the time that this documentary came out, there were other documentaries coming out being very critical of the Mormon church regarding their blood atonement rituals, which a lot of people don't know about, their beliefs that people can become gods.
A lot of the beliefs, the Mormon beliefs prior to the 80s weren't really known, and they still try to suppress them.
But if you go search, and this is, again, not an attack on anybody's beliefs, but these are things that people were sort of like, what?
That's what Mormons are teaching?
Dad's Secret Abuses Revealed 00:11:22
That's what it's really about.
And they tried to kind of downplay it.
But they do have a history of blood atonement rituals.
And the guy, Joseph Smith, who originally founded the church, was a master mason.
There's some similarities between some of the Freemason rituals and some of the Mormon rituals.
There are some Christians who say, how come there's no crosses on the Mormon buildings and instead you see upside down pentagrams?
I don't know.
They claim they have a different meaning.
But, you know, that's a whole other conversation.
But needless to say, I did start following up with everybody that I could.
All the names, I basically just watched the documentary, took down every name, every reference I could, every address, started looking up for anything.
And most of the people have since passed away.
Charles Van Dam, who's the man you were talking about, he was the homosexual man who claimed to have a relationship with Gordon B. Hinckley.
He ended up dying of AIDS shortly after he recorded his testimony.
So he was, I knew he was gone.
Bill Claude, the main investigator, he was deceased.
The woman who described seeing the prostitutes and the young boys on the video, she was deceased.
And then two of the men I have been unable to find.
I don't know if they're using fake names or if it's just what it is, but I haven't been able to find them.
So there's still potential that they might see this or hear this and could come forward.
But on its own, the tape is 30 years old.
It's some people's testimony.
And I've already seen some critics, mainly true believers, saying, this is just national inquiry level stuff, Derek.
I can't believe you did this.
But I did my due diligence to follow up with all these people.
And I think what really makes it worth reporting on, besides, on its own, I think it's interesting, history.
Here's a tape that was put out, hasn't been seen in 30 years.
The accusations were clearly suppressed.
Unfortunately, most of the people are dead now.
It's hard to confirm, et cetera, et cetera.
But I also was sent testimony from a man named Daryl Clegg that we included in the first part of our investigation, which we're calling Justice Delayed.
And Daryl Clegg is another corroborating witness.
He died in 2017, but in 2014, he did an interview, a private interview, where he basically gave his testimony of everything that he knew and remembered about this situation.
He was friends with Bill Clawden and attended meetings with Bill Clawden, interviewing some of the witnesses.
He was with Bill Clawden whenever he met with Hinkley's attorneys in response to the tape.
So I've included, we've just included a couple of snippets.
We didn't release the full interview with him, but just some different snippets of him talking about it.
And again, this was sent to me by a source just saying, here's further corroboration of what is being said in the Gordon B. Hinckley video.
So it's not just these four witnesses 30 years ago.
Now here's a man in the last decade before he died saying, hey, I knew this man.
I knew about this, but he specifically asked, this was his choice, you can like it or not, for this not to come out until after he died.
And so he died five years ago, and it's slowly, you know, somebody decided to share it, I guess.
Well, let's talk about that because that kind of leads us to your latest article where you focus on Hunter, Walton Hunter, who actually ends up being excommunicated from the church because of the allegations of his daughters.
Now, take us through all of that because one of the daughters actually is extremely upset.
And I have to agree with her.
Basically, she says, look, if you have information about this, how do you let it rest on your soul that you're not coming forward right away?
No matter how much it harms you, can you imagine the amount of victims that have to suffer because you're too scared to step up to the plate?
You're frightened for you.
And basically, she gives that perspective.
But these two women who are talking about their father actually get excommunicated from their family as well.
It's quite a devastating story.
Yeah, man.
So, you know, so the initial tape we just talked about, Gordon B. Hinckley was the focus, but because he ended up being president, but there's also several other people that are named.
You mentioned earlier, the Hunters, the Hunter brothers, Alvin and Walton Hunter.
They owned the Hunter motor car lot where the apartment was above where these parties with little boys and prostitutes and stuff would happen.
And so I was basically just listening as closely as possible.
And I heard one of the witnesses say something about Walton Hunter having a bishop.
And I thought, wow, he's in the church.
He's part of the Mormon church.
He's got a bishop.
Or he did.
Then I should be able to find him.
And so sure enough, I start looking up who was Walton Hunter and what's his history.
And I found his obituary from 1995.
But more importantly, I found that his daughter, Deborah Hunter-Marsh, and with the help of her sister, Rebecca Capp, they had, as adult women, written a book called Deliver Us from Evil, where they recount how their father sexually abused them.
I mean, and straight up raped Deborah.
You know, it was different abuse, but it was sexual abuse.
But he consistently raped Deborah throughout her childhood and then would end up abusing Rebecca's son as well.
And there was some suspicion that Deborah's daughter was abused as well.
So, yeah, and that led me down like a whole other rabbit hole.
So I decided to read Deborah Hunter Marsh's book, Deliver Us from Evil, which was published in 2014.
And she tells the whole story.
She also confirms that she mentions the tape as well.
She doesn't name it by name, but she mentions, hey, there was this tape that came out that came out and was attacking a high official in the church.
They didn't specifically name Gordon B. Hinckley in her book.
And I did talk to her about that afterwards.
But they didn't name Gordon B. Hinckley, but they reference all the same people, Charles Van Damme, Louise Sims, everything.
And so she even says she remembers being a little girl and seeing Gordon B. Hinckley coming to the Hunter Motor Car Lot that her dad owned.
So again, further corroboration that these people did hang out.
They were friends.
They did have a relationship.
And same thing, her sister Rebecca shares that she remembers seeing him as well.
So my initial report, the first one, was just based on the testimony that was in the book sharing Deborah's horrifying story of abuse.
And unfortunately, you know, it's not just her dad.
Her dad shouldn't get the full blame because her mom participated in this as well.
Her mom knew that she was being raped.
They said there's no way her mom couldn't have seen the blood or the bodily fluids on the sheets.
And one time the mom literally walked in with the dad, like forcing the daughter to, you know, do some things to him.
And she just called her a slut and walked out, you know, things like that.
So, I mean, the mom clearly knew what was going on.
And one of the daughters, Rebecca, she told me in the last few days she hates her mother still.
She has not been able to forgive her in any way.
And she's deceased now since then.
And so they're both dealing with that.
Deborah Hunter Marsh has not had a good life mentally, you know, mental capacity.
She's there, but she's had to deal with a lot of mental issues, mental struggles, and health issues as well.
And I know that this is greatly stemmed from her experience with her father.
That's what she told me.
And then, yes, once her and her sister decide to speak up, the other two siblings who say they were never abused and maybe they never were.
Maybe, you know, just for whatever reason, dad chose these two girls.
The brother and one of the other sisters have want nothing to do with Rebecca or Deborah.
They've, you know, it's split their family apart.
And as I write in the articles, Deborah, including we just published one today called Sexual Abuse by Former Bishop Walton Hunter confirmed.
And so this just goes even further because I actually got to speak to them on the phone and let them know that, hey, we're covering this story.
You know, I'm trying to, I'm doing this for you, honestly, because as you know, Jason, people get so caught in the, well, which celebrity was involved or which president?
And that's not always the case.
Sometimes it's people that you don't, you don't know who Walton Hunter is.
Maybe you never even heard of him.
You never, you know, it doesn't really affect your life.
But there's a two women and their kids and their families that were impacted by this man's actions.
And the church, I don't have the evidence, hard evidence at the moment that the church knew what was going on, but Deborah Hunter believes that there's no way that as close as her dad was in the church and how involved he was and especially as close as he was to Gordon B. Hinckley, that there's no way that he didn't know that they were being abused and that he was doing this to his daughters.
And also, Deborah Hunter said that the reason she didn't include Hinckley's name in the book is because some close friends told her not to, that they thought it would be unnecessary.
And she didn't really think it was that big of a deal.
But now, talking in 2022, she says she believes, based on everything she heard and saw as a young girl growing up around this time, that Gordon B. Hinckley was guilty of everything on the tape and more.
That is what she told me.
And by the way, let's talk about on the tape, okay?
I think that's important because, you know, first of all, the person that's rounding up the women prostitutes, again, I think is very credible, obviously worked on the lot, was named up by other corroborating witnesses.
And, you know, he even said that a lot of the girls that he was picking up from this certain area were people that he grew up with and went to school with.
He also corroborates sometimes multiple young boys at a time in that 15 to 16 year range.
And I want to say this again, there wasn't the same kind of stigma in the 80s.
It wasn't as widely talked about that like a teenage boy would not be the same thing as a boy of consent when it came to homosexuality, and especially within church and religious realms.
You know, a sin is a sin.
So that kind of flew under the radar.
There were a lot of different state laws about the age of consent.
We already discussed how in the Mormon church, those who were taking multiple wives were marrying.
I mean, some girls as young as 12 and under guys.
I mean, again, very, very openly.
It's kind of grotesque.
So you see all of this.
This guy is not only the head, but like as you said, he's changing their image through PR.
And just as you talked about, you may not know the names of these people.
You didn't know David Levitt's name if you weren't following this case.
But these are truly power players in the inner realms of how the infrastructures of both government and religion work.
And I think that's important.
Yeah, absolutely.
And one other thing you just reminded me of that I was forgetting is that in the book, Deborah, you know, because you're talking about the polygamy and how sometimes within Mormon families, at least, you know, the older traditions definitely included polygamy.
Most people publicly, the mainstream church says, you know, that's something of the past.
But there's plenty of examples when abuse is revealed that you find out that somebody secretly thought that it was still existing.
So for example, Deborah Hunter says that once her father started to rape her, he started telling her some twisted things about like being she like being her husband her husband in a way almost or something.
Like he was taking her as a second wife kind of, and he started treating her differently just in the way that he was talking to her and communicating with her.
So, I mean, I just, I think that there is still those elements that come into play there, the fact that it happened in the church.
And you mentioned this earlier.
I didn't really explain, but he did eventually get excommunicated from the church.
You know, around the time that the tape was happening, he was a bishop in Salt Lake City, Utah for 10 years.
And that's when the story you were describing, you were talking about that.
Charles Van Damme says there was something to do with $75,000.
Charles Van Damm ended up having to leave Utah.
And if you look up the ex-Mormon blogs and the people who think that this story is just a bunch of BS, they try to paint Charles Van Damme in a bad light.
He had AIDS.
Everybody knows that AIDS leads to dementia.
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He's not reliable.
He was a liar, this and that.
I think he is, along with the other four witnesses on the tape, credible.
And again, Deborah and Rebecca, they confirm seeing him at the car lot, having a relationship with their father, working together, just seeing him like they were close buddies.
And you know what?
He also mentions, and I think that this is also important because especially right now, very relevant right now, the FBI has always been an extremely corrupt organization that leverages itself with its own informants and its own narrative management.
Okay.
It works with criminals.
It's historical.
He mentions that he believes that while he was doing all of this check caching, the FBI was right outside following him.
And that's something that's kind of just glossed over.
But again, when you're going through a time period of the finders, the Franklin scandal, law enforcement management via the FBI, you wonder what their take or cut is.
Are they really investigating or are they making sure that things go smoothly?
Now, that is total interjection on my part.
That's speculation.
But that's speculation based on historical behavior that we see time and time again when we're talking about the high-level abuse of children, money laundering, and backdoor power deals.
And this whole investigation, these two series, reek of all of that, Derek.
Well, also, I will say that I did talk to some sources that I can't name, but sources that are familiar within the Mormon church and have been for the last 20, 30 years that said that in their experience, they've found that the intelligence agencies have an interest in Mormon, potential Mormon recruits as spies or informants and things of this sort, largely because the Mormons travel.
They do these missions around the church like a lot of religious institutions do.
But specifically, they focus on the Mormons and because the Mormons are often biking and getting around, meeting people.
For whatever reasons, this source told me that the FBI and CIA have often looked for recruits within the Mormon church.
So I think that is, you know, it's not an unfair point to bring to the table.
So where do we go from here, my friend?
You know, what is the next part of this investigation?
Obviously, folks, he just launched the, I believe it's the second part of this Hinkley-Hunter investigation.
If you haven't seen the first part, obviously you need to do that.
I would encourage you to watch the 30-minute documentary, make your own decision on how credible these eyewitnesses are.
Obviously, other than your Justice Delayed series, the Utah series is a must-read for people again, because this really does get into the inner darkest realms of what many people don't think humanity is capable of, let alone people that are high-functioning and, again, making big decisions, sometimes criminal, behind the scenes.
So where do we go from here, Derek?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I just want to encourage everybody, if you go to the lastamericanvagabond.com, Ryan has it set up where you can check out like the different art writers.
There's a tab that says Bros series.
And if you scroll down, you'll see Justice Delayed.
And so we have all three parts, including the one we just released this morning, that are there that detail the tape, Daryl Clegg, the whole background, everything we just covered, but in a bit more detail.
And I also want to say in this third part that we just released, I went ahead and included some copies from Deborah's book for people who maybe need some more corroboration.
She has copies of the letter sent to her therapist to her parents when she was trying to get her parents to come talk about the sexual abuse and they refused.
I also have a letter that she included from her stake president within the church whenever she went to go and eventually was successful in getting her father removed as bishop in San Diego as part of the church.
So, and then there's also the civil lawsuit.
So there's definitely documentation and corroboration of these reports.
So I want that to be known because the main reason I chose to do this, the main reason I think it matters, is because Deborah Hunter Marsh and Rebecca Kapp and their children, including Rebecca's son, who struggled with mental health his entire life and died a year and a half ago from an overdose.
And now his mom is finally willing to speak out because she said she didn't want to speak out before because she didn't want to put her son through anymore.
Their family has been wrecked.
Their lives have been just affected and impacted in so many horrible ways.
And unfortunately, the people who did this are gone, but maybe other people who knew about it are still alive and can be held accountable.
They only knew about it.
Let's make something clear.
All right.
I want people to understand this.
Who do you think they replace these people with?
You think they replace them with the good guys, the people that are actually believing in the book?
Or do they want the corruption running because the machine has run for so long?
The kickbacks have run for so long.
The intelligence agendas have run for so long.
Do you think that the people in power now are good or are not going to have connections to those in the past?
I'd say it's a pretty slim chance.
And that's why we harp on these things and talk about these things, because it's a never-ending cycle of the same types of players.
The names may be different, but the positions that they hold as the head of a church or the county commissioner or the local sheriff or the police commissioner seem to keep being the same.
So that's something to keep in mind and something people have to realize.
So Derek, how can people support your work, man?
Because I know you do this tirelessly.
Obviously, this is a Last American Vagabond piece, but you also have the conscious resistance.
I know you're about to, I think, get on the tour again.
Is that right?
Well, I'm going to be hitting the road for just one single event, but I will mention that, yes, please do support my work at theconsciousresistance.com.
In addition to the three series articles I did for The Last American Vagabond, I also wrote like a kind of behind the scenes blog just telling the story about how I researched this and just some inside information for anybody who might be interested in that.
And then, of course, we have the tape.
But yeah, overall, like I told Ryan the other day, I mean, I'm grateful to Ryan because he pays me for my writing.
But the problem with independent media and those of us who, you know, really truly depend on everybody out there who's watching, you know, Rockfin, wherever you're watching from, we depend on you guys because, you know, if Ryan was to get another hit of censorship, I might not have a source of income, right?
And I'd, you know, it would be even more of a struggle to do this.
And whenever you're just having a struggle, it's hard to say, hey, I'm going to dedicate one month to just this one topic.
I'm not going to do anything else.
I'm going to, you know, decrease my amount of videos and output because I need to focus on this thing.
I need to call people.
I need to email people.
I need to track people down.
That's real investigative work.
And it doesn't always, it rarely gets funded, even in the mainstream.
You know, you're either relying on billionaires and foundations or corporate advertising.
So if you can support my work at theconsciousresistance.com, if you can support Jason Burmes, if you can support The Last American Vagabond, then you will help make sure this kind of content continues to get created.
So I appreciate everybody out there who's watching this.
I know these topics aren't easy.
And also, I know it can feel kind of obscure, but I hope people recognize the importance of trying to bring some sort of justice to these women.
And the last thing I'll say, when I talked to Deborah and Rebecca, they were very grateful that somebody is talking about their story now.
And, you know, they want the word to get out.
But also, the last thing they told me was that, you know, when their father was dying, he told his wife that he was frightened, he was terrified, and that he was starting to see dark figures assembling around him in his final moments.
So, you know, take that however you want.
But I like to believe that in some sense, there's some justice out there.
Well, I'll say this, man.
And I keep saying it.
And especially if you read this type of series, if you look into this type of evidence, good and evil exist.
I don't care what deity you believe in, what spiritual behavior you want.
I'm telling you right now at a base level, I'm not calling it the force.
I don't know what it is, you know, but I'm telling you now, good and evil exist.
And there are certain people that morph into this disturbingly sociopathic evil that is what gives them what they think is their power.
There's a lot of metaphors out there in entertainment and things like Star Wars because they literally get caught up in this.
And you see it time and time.
There's a reason people talk about power corrupting and absolute power, corrupting absolutely.
A lot of these people are gods in their own minds.
You know, you briefly discussed that today.
And they worship the idea of this Crowley-esque behavior of do as thou wilt.
What can you handle?
In other words, be your own God.
There is no good and evil, and you're going to decide that.
Well, I got news for you.
You don't get to decide that.
There is inherent good and evil in the universe, and you do not just good work.
You do great work, my brother.
So I encourage everybody to go check you out, both of the conscious resistance and the last American Vagabond.
Ryan Christian, also doing great work.
I believe I'm going to be on his show next week.
And we'll definitely be doing something around 9-11.
Again, another really important issue that people that really integrates into all this.
Because when you have intelligence agencies that are running things like, I don't know, Midnight Climax with brothels coast to coast and experimenting with mind control, they'll do anything.
When you got a speaker of the house like Dennis Hassert, who's labeled a serial child molester by a judge and has gotten away with it for four decades plus, according to the victims, but never spent a day in jail for it, you got a problem.
And I don't know if Derek and I are going to be able to solve it, but maybe we can shine some light on it.
So, Derek, thank you once again.
I really do appreciate it, brother.
Yeah, thank you, man.
Appreciate your time.
Talk to you guys soon.
There he is, everybody.
Derek Brose, kicking ass and taking names.
So we got some tips.
I want to say thank you to Blake Lego.
He says, thank you for the info over the years, life-changing stuff.
For those that don't know, yeah, we're fully demonetized over on YouTube, and we often can't do all of our videos.
So Rockfin and Rumble, but Rockfin, you can actually $9.99 a month or $99.99 for the year, and you get everybody's premium content.
Jim Garrison, another great supporter of the show, it works with criminals.
Jason B, spot on about the FBI, perhaps the CIA and others.
Jason, they want to run it forever.
Yes, they do.
They love their little system.
By the way, thanks to Sweaty Zombie for buying me a coffee.
Those links are down below as well.
And Christine Hoggart says these video producers must think we are idiots or else they are aimed at very young children.
She's talking about another video I just put up about the pre-bunk era.
And you can watch that video.
Also, I want to encourage everybody to check out the documentary films.
Loose Change Final Cut, Fabled Enemies, Invisible Empire, a New World Order to find and shade the motion picture.
They are free of charge.
I want you to watch them.
I want you to share them.
Shout out to Ken Jenkins.
He's going to be, where's he at?
He's out in California.
I think it might be Oak Grove.
I might be wrong about that.
But they're going to be playing Fabled Enemies right around the 21st anniversary.
I want to thank him for that because, again, we're trying to get the information out there.
If you don't understand what happened on 9-11, please start with Fabled Enemies.
You don't even have to get into any of the physical anomalies, just the other really important networks that were involved and still in charge, just to let you know.
There it is.
You can buy me a coffee.
Here's the link.
Rockfin, Podbean, Rumble, and thank you, Odyssey.
Guys, powerful broadcast.
Derek Brose, The Last American Vagabond, The Conscious Resistance.
Let's shine some light on these very dark issues that are never about left or right and always about right and wrong.
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