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Sept. 2, 2024 - Sebastian Gorka

01:53:38

Labor Day 2024: President Donald J. Trump, Rudyard Lynch, and Matthew Goodwin on AMERICA First

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Time	Text
	I gotta get going.
	So thank you, everybody, for being here.
	We appreciate it very much.
	We appreciate it very much.
	Gorka?
	Did I see the Gorka man?
	Yeah, stand up, Gorka.
	Quick, get up!
	How good is he, Sebastian?
	Seb!
	They call him Seb.
	I call him Sebastian.
	Thank you, Sebastian.
	I just spotted you.
	It's lucky you're nice and tall.
	No longer Dr. G, is it the Gawker Man?
	Maybe, if the former, and God willing, if we do our part.
	The future president gives you a new nickname, you should stick to it.
	We are honored to have with us my former boss, the 45th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump.
	Mr. President, welcome to America First.
	Hi, Sebastian.
	I'm lucky I spotted you.
	See, you're nice and tall, so I was able to spot you.
	Otherwise, I would have been in big trouble if I didn't see you.
	You've been so great.
	So anyway, and I thank you for that.
	Thank you, sir.
	Thank you, sir.
	All right, let's begin with the thing that was most of concern to you the last time we met at Mar-a-Lago.
	I have to ask you, on behalf of the millions of people who are listening right now, how concerned are you, Mr. President?
	You are trouncing the current incumbent.
	You became the nominee with such ease.
	Are you certain?
	Are you confident that this election, at least, will be secure and fair?
	They've cheated for many years, decades, I hear.
	I was witness to it the last time, and that was, in my opinion, absolute.
	It was a disgrace.
	We won that election.
	It was a rigged election.
	And look at what's happened between the borders of Afghanistan and Ukraine being attacked by Russia.
	This would have never happened.
	And with Israel, the attack on Israel October 7th, all of this, this is all of things that would never have happened.
	Inflation would have never happened because I had energy low.
	And when he came in, it doubled and tripled and it threw the whole system off.
	It's just so, so, I mean, think of what the world would have been like if we had an election where we, we had a fair election, just to put it nicely.
	I want to be nice.
	We had a fair election.
	So they're going to try and rig it.
	I have no doubt about it.
	They've been doing it for years.
	And look, how can you win on open borders, high interest rates, a woke military, all the things that they talk about.
	All electric cars.
	How about all electric cars?
	They don't go far.
	They cost too much and they're made in China.
	How do you do that?
	So how can they win with what they do?
	Their policies are so bad.
	The thing they do best is cheating at elections and misinformation, like the word bloodbath, which they've used a hundred times over the last year about describing things.
	And I used it about trade, essentially auto trade, because we're getting ripped off with Biden's really dumb auto policy.
	I tell you what, if any autoworker, United autoworker or other, If any autoworker voted against Trump, they are not the smartest people.
	If they vote against Trump, if you look at what Biden's done to that industry, it's incredible.
	In a short period of time, the electric mandate will destroy it completely.
	You mentioned the border, sir.
	The State of the Union was recently, the current incumbent was incapable of even mentioning correctly the name of Lake and Riley.
	You took time to meet with his parents.
	I have to ask you, as the man who secured the border when you were the chief executive, what is the Democrat plan?
	Is it simply to turn tens of millions of illegals into citizens and then lock in their constituency by breaking the U.S.
	Constitution?
	Why would they let at least eight million illegals into this country in the last three years, sir?
	I think that's what their plan is.
	Look, at first I would say, you know, because they cheat so much, they don't really need to do that.
	They cheat so much with the ballots and everything else that they probably don't need to do that.
	But we think we have that locked down.
	We hope we have it locked down.
	You know, they always come up with another way of doing it, like broken machines all over the place.
	If you look at Kerry, the machines were broken.
	Everybody waited until Tuesday, which Republicans have historically liked to do.
	And then they got out and the machines were broken.
	Tremendous percentages of machines were just broken.
	And the courts don't, the courts don't give relief.
	It's just, it's hard to believe.
	But I guess their plan is the votes, I guess.
	Because who would, who would allow this to happen to our country?
	They're allowing people from prisons and jails.
	They're allowing people from mental institutions and, you know, on steroids is insane asylums.
	I always say silence of the lambs.
	Hannibal Lecter, one of the spooky movies, I will tell you.
	But they're allowing people from mental institutions and prisons, and they're allowing terrorists into our country at levels never seen before.
	And Venezuela, I don't know if you saw, their crime is down 67%.
	I'm sure this makes you happy.
	Their crime is down 67% because they've gotten all their gang members and all the bad ones and the rough ones And they put them into the United States.
	Can you believe this?
	Well, it's not just the criminals they are letting into this country, thousands of illegals every single day.
	It's also the weaponization of the judiciary.
	I still can't comprehend.
	I've seen you say it at Mar-a-Lago, at CPAC and elsewhere.
	You joke about what they're doing to you, the weaponization of the FBI and the judiciary.
	Our good friend and colleague Kash Patel and Lee Smith have theorized that the raid against you, sir, the only president to ever be raided by armed agents of the FBI, was over the binder of documents you declassified regarding the Russia hoax.
	Do you think that's why the FBI is coming after you with these absolutely political accusations and persecutions?
	It could be.
	You don't know.
	It's very deeply seated.
	You know, when I fired Comey and a lot of other people, you know, I fired a lot of people that were bad for us.
	But Comey in particular, he was the head of the FBI, a disaster.
	It was a disaster.
	He was the one with Hillary Clinton where nothing rose to the occasion.
	They had her so-called.
	But with me, I mean, you take a look at what they did with her.
	You look at a double standard.
	I mean, the ultimate is Biden.
	He had many, many, many times more documents, more everything.
	He had no security, no nothing.
	They were on the garage floor of a flimsy garage.
	With no secret service.
	I had secret service all over the place.
	He had his documents sent to Chinatown.
	And those boxes were used.
	Did you look at those boxes?
	I saw the Zappos box.
	I saw the busted up Zappos box in which he kept top secret information.
	Absolutely.
	I mean, you look at that.
	But you look at that as a double standard.
	You take a look.
	This is not justice.
	And they let him off the hook.
	And I did nothing wrong, because I come under the Presidential Records Act.
	I did absolutely nothing wrong.
	Plus, Mar-a-Lago's a secure place, and you have Secret Service here, because I'm President, and when I'm not President, I have a lot of Secret Service here, and all of the other things.
	And he gets off scot-free, and with me, I have to go through a process, but I think it's going to work out fine, because I did nothing wrong coming under the Presidential Records Act, which he didn't come under.
	But think of it, they let him off scot-free and no problem.
	And with me, I have to go through a process.
	It's a disgrace what's happening in this country.
	The good news is the people see it.
	They see it.
	And we have the highest poll numbers I've ever had.
	I mean, that's good.
	We knocked off all the Republicans quickly in record time.
	You know, that was record time.
	Yes.
	I don't know if you keep score of things like that, but it was the fastest ever.
	And that's good.
	And now We're focused on one person, and that's Biden.
	Crooked Joe Biden, the worst president in the history of our country.
	We have never had a worse president.
	And you know, I say oftentimes at a rally or wherever, if you took the 10, I used to say five worst.
	Now I say 10 worst.
	I think I could go up to 15 pretty soon.
	I think I will.
	If you took the 10 worst presidents and added them up, they wouldn't have done the damage that this man has done to our country.
	And I think you believe that.
	But do you think it's him?
	There are lots of theories.
	I mean, you look at him, he's not cognitively competent.
	Who's really running the country?
	Is it Obama?
	Is it Jill?
	Is it the Obama flunkies across government?
	Who do you think's really destroying America?
	I often ask the same question about him.
	Is it him?
	Because he's so out of it.
	You know, where does he even come up with ideas?
	I assume that's what you're talking about, right?
	Yes.
	Yes.
	Because you're almost saying, like, as evil as it is, it's, like, ideas.
	And it's really bad stuff.
	And I'm not sure that it's him.
	I know he must approve it.
	I must look at him and say, can we do this?
	And he looks at it with a blank stare and says, yes.
	Right?
	Nobody... It's the people in... Look, it's Lisa.
	And it's all these guys that surround that oval desk.
	It's guys like Andrew Weissman that, you know, cause she essentially works for him and Lisa Monaco.
	She essentially works for him.
	So I would say it's her and it's a group of people that surround that beautiful resolute desk.
	I don't know if it's Biden.
	I don't know to me, you know, I don't see it because he's so out of it.
	You don't think he even thinks, he just wants to go to sleep.
	But he's surrounded by people that are vicious and smart, and they've been after me for years, and they continue onward, and if they devoted the same energy and talent to making America great again, we'd be a much better country right now.
	You talked about the security of Mar-a-Lago, the Secret Service protection you have.
	I just want to raise one issue that ...is of concern to serious individuals and patriots.
	My good friend Dan Bongino, who you know is a former Secret Service agent, both he and Alan Dershowitz, who's a Democrat on my show, have both voiced their serious concerns for your safety.
	Are you worried that the left are so insane with regards to Antifa, the normalization of violence about you and your family's safety, Mr. President?
	Well, I found Secret Service to be great.
	And I watch it very closely.
	I think they're great people.
	I know many of the agents.
	And, you know, I've had many, many agents.
	And I find them to be doing a great job.
	I really... And I would tell you otherwise.
	I wouldn't even want them otherwise.
	They have really found... I think they're very outstanding people.
	Now, in every agency, you have people that aren't so outstanding, right?
	I mean, no matter what you do, no matter how you play it.
	But I found them to be terrific.
	Absolutely.
	Good.
	So the big news of the first 24 hours of your next presidency, if we make it happen, God willing, is what happens in Ukraine with regards to Russia.
	Could you talk to us about the art of the deal when it comes to stopping the bloodshed in Europe?
	Sure.
	Before I do that, I just want to add one other thing on Secret Service.
	Yes.
	They just totally refuted the Cassidy Hutchinson, who I barely knew.
	I wouldn't even know what she looks like, except I've seen her after the fact.
	But Cassidy Hutchinson's ridiculous story that I essentially attacked two Secret Service, nice, young, strong guys.
	I'm attacking them in the front of, I think she called it the Beast, when it wasn't the Beast.
	No.
	A different kind of a car.
	But she originally, I believe, said it was the Beast.
	But think of it.
	She makes up this story.
	They refuted it in its entirety and strongly.
	Now, the problem is the J6 committee, I call it the unselect committee.
	They're unselect.
	The unselect committee destroyed all the evidence and everything.
	They destroyed everything.
	I hear that Cassidy Hutchinson changed a lot of her testimony.
	And I say, what's going to happen to her?
	She made up testimony that I was attacking two very powerful, physically powerful people.
	And a lot of my friends said, oh, gee, I never knew you were that much into fighting.
	You know, I like watching UFC, but they didn't know.
	They said, I never knew you were that into fighting.
	But the whole thing was such a fake story.
	And it was made up.
	It was just made up.
	And Secret Service totally refuted it.
	And so I just I do want to say that because it's important.
	Yes.
	I found them to be very reliable.
	Very good.
	As far as Ukraine is concerned with Russia, number one, it should have never started or would have never started.
	It wasn't going to happen.
	There was never any discussion.
	I did discuss with Putin on numerous occasions his love affair with Ukraine.
	I mean, he was it was the apple of his eye.
	He would have never done it when I was there.
	And there were certain reasons, very strong reasons, very, very strong reasons he wouldn't have done it.
	And he wouldn't have done it for another, maybe more practical reason.
	I had oil way down at a very low point.
	Energy, oil.
	And he makes most of his money from oil, and oil was low.
	When Biden came in, he upset the energy apple cart.
	You know, we were energy independent, and now we're not.
	We go begging for energy from everybody.
	We have more than anybody else.
	But we have to go begging.
	So when he came in, Sebastian, he screwed up energy.
	That caused inflation.
	But it also gave a lot of money to Russia.
	Now, I happen to think that, you know, in terms of they were making money hand over fist.
	At $40 a barrel, they don't do great.
	At $100 a barrel, they never saw anything like it.
	And that was for a long time.
	And now it's going up again.
	Oil is going up again, if you notice.
	And it's going up very substantially, very quickly.
	But think of it.
	So he is making all of this money and he goes in.
	But I happen to think that the horrible, most embarrassing day or moment in the history of our country was the withdrawal, the way we withdrew from Afghanistan.
	And we left $85 billion worth of equipment behind.
	We lost 13 soldiers.
	What nobody talks about, we have 38 soldiers, 39 soldiers that were horrifically hurt.
	Hundreds of people were killed on both sides.
	Hundreds.
	And we have American hostages still there.
	I mean, they're still there.
	That was the worst thing.
	And that showed such great incompetence that I happen to think that that really led to Putin saying, this is the time.
	Let's go.
	These guys are incompetent.
	They don't know what they're doing.
	And he went into Ukraine.
	With that being said, it was easy then.
	It's much more difficult now.
	But the reason, the sad thing is we now have Hundreds of thousands of dead people, and we have cities and a culture that's been blown up.
	I mean, many of those cities are gone.
	They've been wiped off those beautiful ancient towers of gold.
	They've been wiped off the planet.
	They could never be resurrected in that form, and that form was a beautiful form.
	So all of that is gone, and so nothing you can do now could ever have competed with the fact of no No war.
	There would have never been a war.
	Not even to make a... I could have made a deal, but I wouldn't have even had to make a deal.
	Could have stayed the way it was.
	There would have never... It would have never happened under me, under my administration.
	Okay, so now it's all done.
	Biden has made a mess of that like he has every other thing.
	You have hundreds of thousands of dead people, and you have cities that are blown to pieces.
	What do we do?
	We have to get both of them together.
	And I say, you gotta get this thing done.
	You're gonna get it done.
	And I will say certain things to each one of them that I wouldn't say to the rest of the world, and that's why I can't tell you much more than that, but I believe That I will get it done.
	I know Putin very well, and I know Zelensky fairly well.
	Zelensky was very honorable with the phone call because he said, no, I wasn't threatened at all.
	He could have played that out and made a big deal out of it.
	He said, I wasn't threatened at all by President Trump.
	It was a very nice call.
	I mean, that call turned out to be a perfect phone call.
	I called it.
	I mean, I actually called it.
	And they knew it because they had the laptop from hell.
	But anyway, but he played it very honorable.
	You know, he could have, you understand what I mean, Sebastian?
	Yes.
	He could have grandstanded, threatened, etc, etc.
	He wasn't threatened at all.
	And he said that, which destroyed their case, their no case, because fortunately they had that call recorded.
	And once they had the recording, that whole thing died and it died fast.
	But what a shame that the country has to go through all that by these dishonest guys like Schiff, Shifty Schiff.
	He is so bad.
	And to think he'll possibly and probably be a senator is so disgraceful to this country.
	It's such a downer for this country to have a guy like that in the Senate who's lied and everything else.
	But I would get them together and I would make a deal.
	And I'll get it done.
	And I know exactly what to say.
	But if I say it to you or if I say it to the public, I can't say it anymore.
	But it's a it's a chess match.
	You know, it's a giant, very important chess match.
	It's a poker game.
	And we got to get it done.
	Biden said the worst things.
	I mean, initially he was just I don't blame anybody other than Putin.
	And I don't blame anybody other than the people involved.
	But Biden was so bad in terms of not stopping it.
	He could have stopped that easily, but everything he said was almost the opposite of what he should have been saying.
	He's not much of a chess player.
	They're good at cheating on elections, but they're not good at a lot of other things, that I can tell you.
	It's not just Ukraine, however, Mr. President.
	We now have a war in the Middle East.
	For four years, there was no war under your tenure as Commander-in-Chief.
	You have proven yourself to be the most pro-Israel, most philo-Semitic president since the rebirth of Israel in 1948.
	You moved the embassy.
	You recognized Jerusalem.
	It's one of my great regrets that I was invited to the reopening of the new embassy that Ambassador Friedman created in Jerusalem.
	I couldn't go.
	Could you explain why is it, seemingly, that this administration, including Chuck Schumer in the Senate, so hate the man that Israel chose as their Prime Minister?
	Why do the Democrats hate Bibi Netanyahu?
	I actually think they hate Israel.
	Yes.
	I don't think they hate it.
	I think they hate Israel.
	And the Democrat Party hates Israel.
	And the Democrat Party, if you remember when many Israeli representatives, including Netanyahu, when they came to the country trying, begging, begging, at that time, President Obama, please don't make the Iran nuclear deal, which is a disaster, and was a disaster.
	And I ended it.
	But unfortunately, they didn't do anything with the ending of it.
	I ended it, and would have had a new deal made with Iran, it would have been good for everybody, and there would have been no nuclear weapons.
	You know, they're very close to getting a nuclear weapon right now.
	And once they have that, it becomes a different form of negotiation, a much more difficult negotiation.
	But I really believe they hate Israel, and they also see a lot of votes.
	Don't forget, when you see those Palestinian marches, even I, I'm amazed at how many people are in those marches.
	And guys like Schumer see that, and to him it's votes.
	I think it's votes more than anything else, because he was always pro-Israel.
	He's very anti-Israel now.
	Any Jewish person that votes for Democrats hates their religion, they hate everything about Israel, and they should be ashamed of themselves, because Israel will be destroyed.
	You have Iran now making a nuclear weapon.
	None of that would have happened with me.
	That's a big thing.
	With me, Iran was broke.
	They were absolutely stone-cold broke.
	There was no terrorism because they didn't have money to fund Hamas and Hezbollah and the other 28 groups.
	They had no money.
	They were stone-cold broke.
	China couldn't buy oil from them.
	None of the countries were buying oil for them at my order.
	They didn't buy it.
	I said, you buy it, you're not going to do business with the United States of America.
	They said, we'll pass.
	And they didn't buy oil.
	And they were broke.
	Now they have $221 billion, including the $6 billion that we gave them for hostages.
	Okay?
	We have $6 billion, including the $10 billion that we gave them so that Iraq could get electricity.
	How about that?
	We gave them $10 billion so Iraq gets electricity, and Iraq wants to throw us out.
	The whole thing is crazy.
	These people are the worst.
	There's something wrong with them.
	They are the worst negotiators.
	All they're good at is evil.
	They're evil people.
	They're sick.
	They're evil.
	They weaponized the Justice Department to get Trump, but Russia and all these other countries can do whatever they want to the United States.
	China.
	China is like, we're like a puppet for China now.
	He doesn't do anything with China because they gave him so much money.
	He's a Manchurian candidate.
	Look, he's the worst president in the history of our country by ten times.
	There has never been anything like it.
	Jimmy Carter is the only one happy.
	Because he's a brilliant president compared to Biden.
	He's like a brilliant, totally brilliant president compared to Joe Biden.
	Do you think that it's actually because they're compromised, the likes of Schiff that you mentioned, Biden?
	Do you think the Chinese have something on them?
	I think they have them on Biden, yeah.
	I think they have it on Biden.
	Probably have it on Schiff, too.
	But I think they have something on Biden.
	I think there's no reason that Biden could be so weak with China.
	There's no reason.
	It's pathetic.
	He's a Manchurian candidate, I'm telling you.
	It's ridiculous.
	And frankly, until they did the... I would never speak in such harsh tones about the presidency, because I have such respect for it.
	But when they indicted me on all of this nonsense, including local stuff, everything.
	You know, they... You saw Rafani, or the boyfriend, or both, went to the Justice Department and the White House, had long meetings, eight-hour meetings, numerous days.
	This was all planned.
	This was all done by the White House.
	And when they did that, I say, well, now I can just talk freely in the way I want to talk.
	He's the worst president in history.
	There has never been worse.
	Our country is in trouble and our democracy is in trouble because of him for a number of reasons, including the fact that he's incompetent.
	But for a number of reasons, our democracy is in tremendous trouble because of Joe Biden.
	He's weaponized the Justice Department against his political opponent.
	Something that was unthought of for our country.
	Very, very commonly used in third world countries, by the way.
	It's police state tactics.
	It's police state tactics.
	That's why the FBI now stands for Fascist Bureau of Intimidation, truly.
	Let's talk about our side for a moment.
	The last time we met in person at Mar-a-Lago, I asked you about Romney McDaniel, and you swore me to secrecy.
	You said, we're getting rid of her.
	Finally, Lara has taken over.
	I'm very excited that the person I mentioned to you, Scott Pressler, has been hired by Lara in the RNC.
	But I have to ask you, are we there, Mr. President?
	Have we arrived?
	Is the Republican Party now MAGA?
	Is it America first, finally?
	Or is it still full of rhinos?
	I think it's 95% MAGA.
	I get a kick out of it.
	You saw how quickly we disposed of my competition.
	That's because it's a MAGA party.
	It's Make America Great Again.
	We want our country to be great again.
	We're not a great country right now.
	We're a left out all over the world.
	We owe $35 trillion.
	The whole thing is crazy.
	When I see us giving Billions and billions of dollars to Taiwan and other countries.
	You know, Taiwan, don't forget, Taiwan stole our chip industry.
	We had 100% of the chip industry.
	Now they have 95% of the chip industry.
	They're a very wealthy country.
	I'm all for Taiwan.
	I'm all for everybody.
	But why are we giving them $16 billion, okay?
	They should be giving us $16 billion.
	Why are we giving them $16 billion?
	I'm for make America great again.
	It's very simple.
	Make America great again.
	And I'm not handing out parceling money.
	We had the greatest border, the strongest border in the history of our country.
	We had the greatest economy in the history of our country.
	We rebuilt the military.
	We had no wars other than I got, I finished the ISIS war.
	We took over, as you know better than anybody, you speak about it better than anybody, we took out 100% of the ISIS caliphate.
	I did it in four weeks instead of five, six, seven years, which is what I was told it would take if we could do it at all.
	I did it in four weeks.
	We have a great military.
	And you don't have to worry about our military going woke.
	They're not going to go woke.
	But the top people would like it to.
	But they don't have the strength to make our military.
	Our military is not woke, and it's not going to be woke.
	But they would like to try, and they are trying.
	They had Milley and these guys.
	They are trying.
	Amazingly, they're trying to make our military weak.
	If you are back in the White House, as I said when I was working for you, I stole a phrase from the Marine Corps to explain your foreign policy, which is, no better friend, no worse enemy.
	So, you know, the world will be stable, there'll be no more, you know, new wars, and our friends, our allies will feel secure.
	My question is, what happens internally, Mr. President?
	Because We see you facing 700 years in prison on trumped-up charges.
	We see Catholics being surveilled by the FBI because they go to Latin Mass.
	We see two and a half, we see a quarter of a million of illegal warrantless surveillance on people who simply are supporters of you, Mr. President.
	How hard is it going to be to drain the corrupt officials and the permanent bureaucrats inside the intelligence community, the FBI, and the DOJ?
	Because changing the leadership will not be enough, in my opinion.
	Yeah, well, the leaders are going to have to make those changes, and they're going to have to do a very complete job.
	I made a lot of changes, but that swamp is deep.
	Look, Comey was a big change.
	You know, getting rid of Comey was not something that was And I did it very early.
	You know, a lot of people said you should have done it sooner.
	Well, you know, I did it very early, within a few months.
	And I saw that with Hillary Clinton, what he did, how he did that.
	The whole Hillary thing was so sad.
	And indirectly, it ended up hurting her.
	You know why?
	Because the FBI revolted on him.
	When he went up there and he started saying all of the bad things she did, The FBI revolted at him.
	I think they would have literally gone out.
	That was what was happening.
	And then he went back and he said, well, let me rethink it, essentially, right?
	And he had to redo everything.
	But no, Comey was bad news.
	I got him out.
	I got a lot of people out.
	A lot of people.
	Many, many people out.
	But it's deep.
	It runs deep.
	And we'll do it.
	We were interrupted by a thing called the China virus.
	And, you know, we did a great job in that.
	Never got the credit for the job we did.
	I ended up handing over a stock market that was higher than just previous to COVID coming in.
	I did a great job.
	We had empty cupboards from past administrations.
	It wasn't me.
	We had empty cupboards.
	We didn't have anything.
	We didn't have gowns.
	We didn't have masks.
	We didn't have anything.
	We didn't have ventilators.
	We became the king of ventilators.
	We made them literally.
	We ended up making them for the whole world.
	But we did a great job in that.
	But it was a big interruption, obviously.
	You know, the one interesting thing, I told you this once before, when I came to Washington, I was a New York person, New York developer.
	I knew New York very well, but I was only in Washington 17 times, didn't know a lot of people, etc.
	And I came in, And I got to know the people.
	I know them now.
	I think I know.
	I know the good ones and the dumb ones and the smart ones and the bad ones.
	And I know the people.
	I know that whole world now very well.
	And we have unbelievable, unbelievable people that are going to go in and people that are loyal to our country.
	I don't want them to be loyal to me.
	I want them to be loyal to our country.
	Talking of your picks, I've been told who you are considering as Vice President.
	I've been told I can't announce it until it's official.
	When are you thinking of making that announcement, sir?
	No hurry.
	And there is no one person.
	I mean, I'll tell you, there are numerous people.
	But we have a lot of great people in the Republican Party.
	We have a lot of great people that nobody ever heard of in the Republican Party.
	You know, there are excellent senators that not a lot of people know.
	I think it's probably good to have somebody with some political experience because you learn a lot about a person.
	This politics is a cleansing action.
	You understand what I mean, Sebastian?
	It's a cleansing action.
	You pick a politician, but then you look at a guy.
	Take a look at Schiff.
	Look how dirty he is.
	How filthy dirty he is.
	And yet he's allowed to ride along and maybe become a senator soon.
	It's crazy.
	It's crazy.
	It shouldn't be allowed to happen.
	No, absolutely corrupt.
	The most mendacious person on Congress and that takes some doing.
	One fun question from my producer who you met backstage at CPAC.
	Jeff would like to know, you have gone on record, Mr. President, as calling Don Lemon the dumbest person in television.
	Since he's now been fired not only from CNN and Twitter, who takes his position as the dumbest person in television, sir?
	God, there's so many.
	I'd like to give that some thought and maybe I'll give you a list of about 50 people.
	How about Joe Scarborough?
	Well, Joe Scarborough's a total phony with bad ratings.
	Gets bad ratings.
	He's lost all credibility.
	I watched him a week ago ranting and raving and didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
	He's become a lunatic.
	Now he gets bad ratings and it doesn't have what it takes.
	And Mika, what's going on there?
	I mean Mika, the way she speaks.
	They were big fans of yours a couple of years ago.
	Oh, I lived there.
	I lived there.
	I would do it by phone.
	I wouldn't even have to go there.
	I would be on as long as I wanted by phone.
	They got very good ratings.
	In the initial, you know, my initial foray into politics, I was there for a long time.
	They liked me a lot.
	I got along with them great.
	But, you know, they've changed.
	I left them.
	I left them.
	They didn't leave me.
	Because I just didn't find them to be honest.
	But I left them, and I left them strongly.
	And they're not doing well.
	Their ratings are terrible.
	So, you know, it's one of those things.
	But one thing I do find about, like, television and hosting, they've got to be honest to themselves.
	The ones that do great are the ones that are honest to themselves.
	And you can be liberal, I guess, if you have to.
	I don't see how the policies work.
	But you've got to believe it.
	I don't think Scarborough is... He acts like a radical.
	Leftist.
	And that he's not.
	I mean, I know for a fact that he's not.
	So it's a fake.
	He's just faking it.
	You lose your credibility.
	Yeah, he's just faking it.
	You're talking right now to about three and a half million people across the country from California to D.C.
	What is your message for those, Mr. President, who either have given up because of what they saw happen with 2020 or those who are Maybe old-school Republicans and say oh, he's he's not the establishment What do you say to those who have issues with your style or who think that that's not worth it after 2020?
	Well, my style is this way because I've been under siege from the day I came down the escalator and as you learned actually for many months before I came down the escalator because they thought I may run so they spy to my campaign they did many many bad things and I prevailed and But it continues onward.
	They don't stop.
	And it continues onward.
	So people have to understand there's no chaos.
	But I have to move quickly and I have to move tough.
	Otherwise it's not going to work.
	They will succeed.
	And you won't be talking to me anymore about politics.
	Maybe you'll be talking about real estate or something else.
	But I doubt that too.
	So the people have to understand that.
	If you want chaos, take a look at what's happening on our southern border.
	We had the safest border in the history of our country.
	There was no chaos, and everybody agrees.
	And I got Mexico to give us soldiers free of charge, because I would have tariffed them
	if they didn't.
	All of the things.
	But just to answer your question, but I had to put that little caveat in.
	November 5th is the most important day, in my opinion, in the history of our country.
	If we don't win this election, if we don't win it, we are going to, I think, possibly
	cease to be a country.
	I think it's going to be just some really horrible things.
	I used to go around saying Venezuela on steroids, but we've cleaned up Venezuela, because we've
	taken so many of their criminals.
	You know, they're in our system now.
	They're in our country.
	And their crime is down.
	67% their crime is down in Venezuela was reported the other day.
	67% because they took all their gang members and most of their criminals and they dumped them into the United States of America.
	Congratulations, everybody.
	November 5th is the most important day in the history of our country.
	Get out and vote.
	You gotta vote.
	And don't listen to the disinformation and the misinformation.
	Slight difference.
	that the Democrats feed. It's all they're good at. Cheating in elections and disinformation.
	It's all they're good at. They give you phony stories like the bloodbath story. I was talking
	about our car industry because our car industry is being decimated by a very stupid mandate,
	the electric, all electric vehicle mandate. It's the most, it's one of the many crazy
	Nothing's the most crazy anymore because they're so incompetent.
	November 5th, you have to get out and vote.
	And we have to do it.
	We will swamp them.
	If we swamp them, they can't cheat.
	You know, if you swamp them, I don't know if you know this, Sebastian, there's a level at which they can't cheat.
	Now, we have great people watching.
	Michael Watley's going to be fantastic.
	He did a great job in North Carolina, etc.
	But you gotta get out, and you gotta vote.
	And it sounds like a long time away, but it's not.
	Although, seven, more than seven months away is a long time in terms of the current administration, because they'll do tremendous damage to our country in the meantime.
	But we have to remember that November 5th, just put it in your heads.
	It sounds like, why are we talking about it?
	It's going to be upon us very fast.
	We have to win this election.
	We have to swamp them.
	We have to just swamp them and win this election.
	And we're going to make America great again.
	It'll happen.
	It'll happen much faster than people think.
	Last question, sir.
	I was in the ballroom at Mar-a-Lago on November 22 when you announced your re-election campaign launch.
	And despite having worked for you and been in the White House, it was like a gut punch halfway through that speech that I recommend all of our listeners and viewers watch.
	Because it struck me that you are prepared to do it again after everything they put you through.
	The calumny, the smears, the lies, the attacks on you, your wife, your children.
	Would you explain, you know, you could have gone back to your world, you know, global business, the real estate, the golf courses, lived your life as a private citizen.
	Why on earth would you wish to put yourself and your family through this again for another four years?
	And by the way, if I did that, or if I were in third, fourth, fifth, or seventh, or eighth, or tenth, What, 15th place like some of these people?
	Like Asa Hutchinson, where he never got, he never registered at one point, I don't think.
	I mean, he was at zero, and he ran for a year.
	If I was there, I would have never been indicted.
	I would have, I call them Biden, they're not indictments, they're Biden indictments.
	It's weaponization, and it's a disgrace.
	But none of that stuff, none of the things that I have going right now against, you know, the horrible persecution, none of that would have happened.
	But that's okay.
	Ultimately, the reason is simple.
	I love our country.
	I see the potential in our country.
	I know how well we did in the last election.
	Much better than I did in the first.
	Do you know, if I felt that I lost the last election, I would never have run.
	But we won the last election by a lot.
	And I'm running because of that and because of the fact that we have still tremendous potential.
	But we have to bring it back because we're at the abyss.
	We have tremendous potential.
	We're going to make America great again.
	It's a very simple thing.
	Make America great again.
	That's why I'm doing this.
	And we can do it.
	And we can do it quickly.
	We have to do things that are going to be tough and strong.
	But we can do it quickly.
	They've set our country on a course.
	That it will self-destruct very quickly.
	It's a disaster what's going on.
	The only thing good is the stock market.
	And many people have said, many analysts have said, one of the best analysts said, the only reason the stock market's up is because Trump looks like he's going to get elected.
	And if he were not elected, the stock market would crash like 1929.
	I happen to believe that.
	So I'm really going in to make America great again.
	Is that Scott Besson you're talking about?
	I think he's fantastic.
	He's a very respected guy.
	Scott did indeed say that, yes.
	Sir, I want to thank you for staying with us for the whole hour.
	God bless you.
	Our very best to Melania and everyone at Mar-a-Lago and Trump headquarters.
	Thank you, sir.
	Thank you very much, Sebastian.
	God bless.
	Thank you.
	Well, I never thought I'd be doing this on my show, America First, especially dedicating the whole hour of the deep dive one-on-one to this question.
	When I taught counterterrorism and irregular warfare, in addition to all the jihadis and the Marxists, the Red Army Faction, Baader-Meinhof, Al-Qaeda, I also use the Unabomber as a case study of how not to try and track down somebody and how not to publish their manifesto.
	And our regular guest has just published a fascinating video and the title isn't clickbaity at all because he does answer the question, was the Unabomber right?
	And we're going to dissect it with our audience here on America First with our dear friend Rudyard Lynch of the What If Alt-Hist YouTube channel.
	Rudyard, welcome back to America First.
	Thank you so much for having me.
	It's a pleasure as always.
	So, I think let's just start with the conventional wisdom with regard to this domestic terrorist who was a lone wolf actor.
	Super smart guy, mathematician, I think went to MIT.
	Off the charts in terms of his IQ.
	...then started in the late 70s all the way through to the 90s sending basically pipe bombs to companies, to airline companies and to university research centers.
	That's why he was termed by the FBI the Unabomber.
	Universities, airline companies, the Unabomber.
	Ended up wounding over 20 and killing 3.
	And we finally get him apprehended thanks to his brother recognizing his style of writing in the manifesto that he managed, shockingly, to get the broadsheet newspapers in America to publish.
	That led to his eventual arrest, and I think just recently, maybe last year, he committed suicide in a federal prison.
	The conventional wisdom has it, Radyad, that this individual was a neo-Luddite, just Hated technology in general.
	That's why he went to live in a forest, in a shack, in the middle of nowhere.
	But your analysis is far deeper with regards to at least the diagnosis he had of modern society, not the correct response by sending out letter bombs.
	But let's start with, I'm curious, why did you choose Ted Kaczynski as the subject of your latest excellent video?
	I'm 23 years old, which means I'm in an interesting time frame as it relates to the Unabomber, where when I was a child, it was just automatically assumed that he was a madman.
	And then, as I grew older, there started to be this faction of young men, a very large group actually, who call him colloquially Uncle Ted.
	There is this group among young men on the new right who basically back the opposite of whatever the traditional neoliberal narrative on any given topic is.
	And that can end up in kind of nasty places like Holocaust denial, and it can end up in better places like questioning the managerial regime.
	And so that's what happens with With the Unabomber, where there's a large demographic of people who felt dissatisfied with industrial civilizations, they went back through it.
	And that's where my analysis comes from, because this is something that I've seen fomenting on the internet for a long time, that's been bubbling up under the surface.
	Let's unpack it with regards to one sentence you used at the beginning of the video, which is fascinating, where you said you played the mind game.
	How would you describe the current state of our civilization in American society to yourself as a child 10 or 15 years ago?
	How would you do that?
	Which dystopia are we?
	Are we more Aldous Huxley than Orwell?
	So what would that exercise have led you to say to your younger self?
	What I said in the video, and this is something I've said about half a dozen times on the channel,
	is that we live, the only way I could explain the world you and I live in today
	to the version of myself that's 10 years younger, or even in high school, I would say
	that we live in a science fiction dystopia.
	And I'm going to explain that further, but the most important point I would say
	is that we live in a pretty lame sci-fi dystopia.
	Because what you find with all sci-fi dystopias is the author wants to make it interesting.
	So the author makes the Orwellian regime have these giant ministries of truth and these giant ministries of peace, or Brave New World, it's this insanely over-the-top society.
	And one of my friends once said, our dystopia is this very, uh, He basically said, if lame, corporate bureaucrats won, where imagine a society, the most boring pencil pusher you knew in high school took over everything.
	And it's really remarkable to see where it's a very muted dystopia and everything in our society is very muted.
	And one of my friends called our society a cargo cult.
	And it's a cargo cult based around worshiping The cultural forms of mid-century America where we hold on to Star Wars and blue jeans and like musical, basically black music from the middle of the last century and
	All the movies and the fashion and the culture, and we haven't really culturally innovated since the post-World War II era, but we're holding on to this cargo from that time period.
	And to be brutally honest, mid-century America, mid-20th century America was not one of the cultural heights of Western civilization.
	It was pretty good, but if you could hold on to the Italian Renaissance for that much time, there would still be milk to have.
	And so we are this very lame, this very corporate, this very sterilized dystopia.
	And I was thinking about C.S. Lewis yesterday, where C.S. Lewis said,
	the great evils of the future will be done in men, with men behind desks wearing suits.
	And so whenever we wanna do something evil, and I think the things the left does today
	are objectively evil, they couch it in some new terminology,
	so it's suddenly morally progressive.
	And so a witch burning isn't a witch burning, it's cancelling.
	Shutting down dissent is anti-information.
	I'm reading Solzhenitsyn now, and he's one of the best authors I've ever read.
	And the thing that really shocks me is The depths of pettiness that you see on the left.
	And I see a lot of continuity between the left Solzhenitsyn talks about and the left today, which is the video I just wrote.
	But an important level of the dystopia is just the sheer pettiness of the people involved.
	Because when you look at how the left runs society, there's no grand vision, there's no underlying greatness behind it.
	It's just this slow-moving It's just this slow-moving machine enviously destroying good things.
	And you said, are we more Orwell or are we more Huxley?
	And I think...
	I can't really say.
	I think we're slightly more Huxley, but I think there's elements of both.
	I agree.
	I think we're leaning towards Huxley.
	What you've just described, in shorthand, I'd term it the tyranny of mediocrity.
	It's not the great brains.
	It's not the Blofelds of the world.
	It's truly small-minded mediocrities that are driving this dystopian future.
	I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but you mentioned this idea that lack of innovation, we're stuck in the memes or the cultural memes of the 1950s.
	Do you also subscribe to this idea, I heard Peter Thiel say, that it's not just lack of innovation in culture, basically in science there's been no innovation for at least 60 years?
	Yes, that is basically true, where the computer revolution occurred around World War II, and genetic engineering was a discovery of the Great Depression era.
	We have maxed out the cultural discoveries of that.
	We have maxed out the conclusions of the breakthroughs in different scientific disciplines that occurred around the 19th century or the World Wars.
	We haven't really made an intellectual breakthrough in of itself since that time period.
	And I consistently find with academia today, if you posit a field independent from what they believe in, it's immediate cancellation.
	And it's not even stuff relating to the taboo topics like race or sex.
	It's stuff like you can't use the cycles of history to study how politics works.
	You can't Like, if you go against mainstream physics, that's taboo.
	Academia has really become this orthodoxy that exists to basically push the class interests of the academics, where the academics have developed, these are the topics that if we agree to them, can give our social class the highest amount of power.
	And thus, we will create a sort of strike so that anyone who deviates from said topics will be blackballed by our entire cast.
	Yeah, utterly, utterly.
	And the so-called academic journals and peer review are just the ways to keep that iron ring closed to anybody who challenges the orthodoxy.
	We're talking to Rudyard Lynch, host of the superb What If Alt Hist YouTube channel.
	Follow him on YouTube and also on Twitter.
	at what if alt-hist the latest hypothesis is was ted kaczynski right in at least his diagnosis of western civilization not his remedy but his diagnosis if you enjoy what we provide for you here In the deep dive, the long-form interview with real fascinating guests, experts and newsmakers like Rudyard.
	Make sure you subscribe to the podcast on the platform of your choice.
	Salem, Apple, Spotify, Stitcher.
	Plug it.
	My name's Sebastian Gawker, America First.
	Leave us a five-star review.
	Share the links with your friends so the truth gets out there.
	And if you've had it with the woke mediocrities running America, let's get President Trump back in the White House.
	We put the iconic image.
	From Butler the fight fight fight on a t-shirt on a mug get yours and all your America first gear at sebgorkastore.com that's s-e-b-g-o-r-k-a store.com and support the president directly at donaldjtrump.com All right, gotta go back to my notes.
	I always make copious notes before our meetings and as I'm watching your videos.
	On the diagnosis, Ted Kaczynski, this man who, I think, am I right, was at MIT he went to, was involved in some of the very dubious, problematic experiments funded by the CIA, which clearly had an effect on him.
	You say that he likely suffered from PTSD.
	This is an individual who on the bell curve of IQ, Was what, over 160 or something, Rudyard?
	Yeah, he was 167th.
	And the way IQ bell curves work...
	He, that definitely, that's in the beyond the 1000th percentile.
	Yeah, so super smart, super smart guy.
	Let's talk about a phrase or a concept you discuss again and again and again in your latest video.
	What is over socialization?
	What does that mean?
	And how does it tie into this interesting concept that for me kind of echoes the platonic cave analogy?
	of the real world being filled with just abstractions of what should be.
	So let's start with over socialization.
	What is that?
	I'm very glad that you brought up Plato there because I was going to hook it back to ancient philosophy
	too where the reason that Christianity prizes the Trinity
	and actually one of the things that I like the most about Christianity is the Trinity
	because all things exist within the duality and if you get the duality right,
	you can get a better option.
	And so, there's this duality between civilization and barbarism, and Barbarism, if you push it too far, your people basically become savages who can't do anything.
	And then civilization, it's the opposite.
	You actually ironically end up in comparable places when you push too far in one of either directions, which is why you can strangely see lots of cultural similarities between the very left, there's a lot of anthropological similarities between very left-wing people and primitive tribes in places like the Amazon.
	So if you push civilization too far, you end up with the inability to do anything.
	And so this is why, over history, you see the consistent pattern of a strong people emerges, they form an empire, they grow wealthy, the empire grows weak.
	New tribe emerges, restarts the process.
	Let me just drill down on that a little bit, because that mechanism wasn't made explicit in your video, but I think I saw an analogy.
	So when civilization, you know, sending kids to school, the nine-to-five, when that becomes the be-all and end-all, the socialization of the individual unit, What you're basically creating is a drone structure and anything that challenges that individual thought initiative and so forth is a threat to that.
	What has really become just a mechanism for the creation of more drones is it is what you're saying the over socialization that basically Western civilization has become like a beehive?
	Yes, exactly.
	A few days ago I just finished reading Oren MacIntyre's The Total State, which I would highly recommend.
	I think it's one of the best conservative books written in the last 30 years.
	And the thesis of that book is that there is a differentiation between the kinds of people who are good at running systems and the kind of people who are good at building systems.
	There's a very common historic pattern where an empire in decline will be run by a child emperor or an old fool, and then they are surrounded by bureaucrats, eunuchs, and harem girls.
	I will not draw the parallel because I think you guys see it already.
	And so the problem is that if you build a structure, those kinds of people are the people who are very good at taking control of the structure.
	And I'm sure a lot of you have worked in corporate America, and the people who are really good at climbing the office politics, sucking up to their boss, getting the reports in correctly, are not the kinds of people who would have gone down the Amazon and who would have built the first factories.
	And the kinds of people who are the innovators, who are the creatives, they are not the kinds of people who are good at doing the boring tasks of maintaining structure.
	And so what happened with modernity is that the incentive structure towards compliance in the system grew so great so that The system shut down anything that wasn't itself, if that makes sense.
	And so this is, again, I'm going to lead it back to the Oren McIntyre book, where he talks about this very brilliantly, where the globalist elite, and this is a topic I think conservatives, we need to dig in deeply about, that there is this elite that views us with complete contempt and wants to destroy our society, and they're in power.
	And this globalist elite, their aim is to use social engineering to completely wipe out all their opponents.
	And they do it indirectly because they don't like using physical force.
	And so this globalist industrial elite, it uses the education system, it uses the media,
	it uses social pressure through corporations, and the ultimate aim is to rub off the human condition
	so that the only thing that remains is a cog.
	And if you look at the World Economic Forum types, this is basically what they say they want to do.
	Yeah, you will own nothing and you will enjoy it.
	So, and we'll talk about all the inherent paradoxes that entails, but that universal emphasis
	on compliance and drone-like behavior actually punishes and kills the type of actor
	that is essential to the creation and the success of civilization.
	So, you know, the explorer, the adventurer, the inventor, that's like an infection that has to be expelled by the antibodies because all we want is drones, we want compliance.
	We want the person in that cubicle, and as a result, the civilization creates potentially its own downfall, because those with the ideas, you know, Peter Thiel and Elon Musk do not function in cubicles.
	It's the antithesis of how they function.
	We're talking to Radyard Lynch.
	We're discussing his latest video.
	Follow him and subscribe.
	It's free on YouTube at WhatIfAltHist.
	And if you want to keep abreast of the insane news cycle we are in, just the last two weeks have been sheer insanity.
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	That's my whole name as one word, sebastiangorker.substack.com.
	Let's talk about how different modern society is and where, you know, the Kaczynski critique really comes in with regards to Until the modern age, the unit for all society was the family.
	And even as a business, you had to care for each other.
	There was a CEO, there was the father, the mother provided in terms of care and feeding and even education.
	Explain to us the The role of family as was, and what did you call it?
	The devil in modernity.
	The fact that today, family really is a husk in comparison to how it was.
	I've developed an acronym called SAW, and SAW is an abbreviation for Studies in Ancient Wisdom.
	And the purpose of this acronym is to show that There is a remarkable unity between what recent scientific studies say, as in the last 20-something years, and what the ancient folk wisdom and world religions have taught forever.
	And something that is difficult for audio today to understand, but which the evidence is basically completely irrefutable for at this point, is that the 20th century is a bizarre aberration which believed lots of insane things.
	And The sooner you come to the realization of that, it just changes how you see the entire equation.
	And that's true across a dozen different things.
	It's true about how we see religion, it's true about how we see family, which I'll get to soon, how we see community, how we see our role in society, about a dozen things.
	And with the family, what Again, to pull from Saw, this is what previous societies, and especially the philosopher Confucius, alongside what modern studies say, that the family imprints people's comprehension of what the world is onto them.
	Because when children grow up, the family is the first comprehension they have of how the world works.
	And so Interestingly, and this is all pulling from Todd Emanuel's work, that you can predict the government system a society has and how its religion works based off the authority fathers have in that society.
	And in the pre-industrial world, a very important point I want to tap into is that in the pre-industrial world, everything was an interpersonal relationship.
	In today, everything is a bureaucracy, where The way the pre-industrial world worked is that you had your community, you had your family, you had your tribe, nation, etc., and then this provided your welfare, it provided your economics, it provided your military protection, your religion, your fun, and so
	If you were a person of this time period, this system seemed completely intuitive, and the idea of not having it seemed insane.
	And for most societies in history—and Christian Western Europe was more moderate than almost anyone else on this, where Europe got rid of arranged marriages a thousand years ago, except for the aristocracy—but For most societies in history, your dad is your boss.
	The family is the economic unit.
	Your family provides your insurance in case you have an issue or you get sick.
	your family protects you, where in most societies in history,
	if a bandit steals your stuff, it's the responsibility of your cousins and your family to beat up the bandit.
	And so this is why social class was so important to previous societies, because the people
	of your social class did everything for you.
	And it also explains why in the Western world today, the government makes up between half to two thirds
	of the total GDP of the country.
	And this is something I keep on saying to conservatives.
	We are not in capitalism anymore.
	If the government's half of the GDP, we're in some weird mix between capitalism and socialism.
	But in the pre-industrial world, the government was in one to five percent of the total economy.
	The government was a judge in the military.
	And so, Moving from this pre-industrial structure to this modern structure, what you saw was the replacement of these interpersonal bonds with bureaucracy.
	Because every service I provided, I spoke of before, is now done by a bureaucracy.
	And this is why the left thinks we can use bureaucracy to reach utopia,
	because intuitively, their sense of the world is that the bureaucracy can do anything,
	because from their personal lives, the bureaucracy raises you as a child,
	it gives you your work, it gives you insurance, it protects you, it gives you medicine.
	And it's not a coincidence that we are a society through the school system,
	raises people with bureaucracy, and then people grow up to believe that the bureaucracy is their
	family, that the bureaucracy is the thing that they should trust to do everything for them.
	Yeah, fascinating.
	Absolutely fascinating.
	To continue on that vein of how the family is replaced, just a couple of observations from your video that should be obvious, but I don't think are obvious, that, you know, public schooling really doesn't leave you much that you require later in life, but trains you to do what?
	To sit down for eight hours quietly and prepares you for the drone work of an office worker.
	And then the observation you made that I found so compelling is
	when you're in a family unit, and the family unit is the economic unit,
	and you're not working for somebody else, then you have to invest in the spouse, you have to invest
	in the child, you actually have deep relationships.
	Nowadays, the time with the spouse is when you're tired after you got home from work,
	and the rest of the day you're doing what?
	Trying to please your boss.
	The working woman is pleasing a stranger, the working husband is pleasing another stranger, which of course undermines the cohesion of the family unit, and then of course, as you said, the bureaucracy fills the vacuum of what is meant to be meaningful.
	Let's return to the trigger for our discussion, which is the domestic terrorist Ted Kaczynski's manifesto and his analysis, but especially a part of it that you found so compelling, not the call to violence, but will you explain Ted Kaczynski's critique of the left.
	You said in your video, it's one of the most powerful critiques of modern left-wing politics you've ever seen, and how it helps us to understand human resentment to over-socialization.
	So, what was Kaczynski right about when he discussed the left, Rudyard?
	Yeah, he was definitely right about this.
	Really right.
	The thing with Kaczynski and the left is I think that he got this the most right of anyone.
	And I find it funny that a poll has made the best criticism of communism ever.
	I think that's just ethnic revenge.
	His criticism of it, because keep in mind, you do have some previous communist movements in history.
	You had some with the Muslims a thousand years ago, the Greeks had some, and they all occur at roughly the same civilizational point that we are, except ours is much worse.
	It's once you develop the big empires and the big economies of scale, and One of the best principles I've learned is that when the left says something, assume that they actually—in the video I just finished writing yesterday is the Anthropology of the Left.
	The video I finished writing yesterday and the video I'm going to write next week is the Anthropology of the Left followed by the Right.
	And the And so, when you look at the left, what's the opposite of what they're saying?
	Because once you realize literally everything the left says is projection, their worldview makes tremendous sense, but it's horrifying, where everything in the left is based around the growth of power, where every single thing a left-winger says is translated to, give me more power.
	And I really love the phrase, a system's purpose is what it does.
	With the left, they talk about the dictatorship of the proletariat, and they don't have a better plan, because their goal is to make the dictatorship, where the left is a power fantasy, where it's, I will couch my desire for inchoate power and hatred of everything, because if you look at how the left operates, and this is something Kaczynski spoke about very deeply, is he said, if the left genuinely cared about helping black people or women, they would not act the way they do.
	Because whenever you see what the left does, they always make every single group who they are supposedly championing vastly worse.
	They turned the Russian and Chinese peasants into slaves.
	They gave women the worst mental health in history.
	They made the black community fall apart into crime and drugs and Social breakdown and so it's clear that the thing they are pushing for is not their ultimate goal What the left always does do though is give themselves more power.
	And so this is some Weird psychological balance where if you treat people like cogs or ants Then the natural outcome is that they have insane power fantasies And then those power fantasies take over society and then burn the society down.
	And so that was what Kaczynski's criticism of the left was.
	And through all of this is this thread of unmitigated paradox and contradiction because they preach liberation all the time and as they preach liberation they're actually affecting suppression.
	Yes.
	There's a point I've been mulling on for about two months, and what that point is, is the left is so crazy that it makes anyone else who realizes how crazy they are feel crazy.
	It's this weird technique.
	The left is so absolutely insane that a normal person who realizes how insane they are thinks to themselves, no, they can't be that crazy.
	The people in charge of us can't be that crazy.
	And it's this weird form of jujitsu where And this would totally make sense if you had a stronger religion, where if we were in the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church would immediately smell this out, and they'd say,
	Knowing what we do about human nature and about God and good and evil, these people are playing this mental game.
	But because we lost that sense of wisdom that comes from religion, we can't pick up what they're doing.
	And so the left, the left is really brilliant at this.
	It's one of the things where it's genuinely impressive.
	But it's not really a function of brilliance.
	It's just a dogged determination because everything they do is gaslighting.
	Everything they do.
	So, I mean, the degree to which they gaslight the population is brilliant, I think.
	Marx dropped thousands of pages on trying how to manipulate the population.
	Once they use the power, it completely fails.
	They have no comprehension of who they are or what they're doing.
	They gaslight themselves as much as they gaslight others.
	And with Marx, Yeah, so their strategy is they always create these incredibly complex mental paradoxes that if you're a normal person just going through your life, you don't have the mental tools or the mental effort to figure it out.
	So you just go with what their face is.
	Or if you don't have that moral and Transubstantial, transcendental compass of a faith, for example, that can help you say, hang on a second, that's complete garbage!
	Then you're kind of lost and what do you do?
	You doubt yourself.
	This is why this man's channel is so superb.
	Subscribe today, WhatIfAltHist, WhatIfAltHist on YouTube and follow him on Twitter as well at WhatIfAltHist.
	All right, we've only got three minutes left, as we always do at the end of the hour.
	If you want to go deeper into all of the things we discussed, you have to read Katie's book, along with Mike Gonzales' Next-Gen Marxism, What It Is and How to Combat It.
	That's Next-Gen Marxism, What It Is and How to Combat It.
	If you want to have a little bit of Uplifting experience.
	Katie's new podcast with Jennifer Horne is the Happy Women podcast and you don't even have to be a member of the Fairer Sex to listen.
	It's rocketing up the charts.
	Check it out today.
	Also blowing up on YouTube, the Happy Women podcast.
	And then what are you going to be smoking as you read the book and listen to the podcast?
	So excited.
	Finally found a cigar worthy of the America first Dr. G. Monica.
	It is the Liberty Cigars, the George Washington brand, at my website, sebgorkastore.com.
	That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A, sebgorkastore.com.
	So, Ted Kaczynski was a terrorist.
	He deserved to go to prison for the rest of his life.
	Killed three people, maimed almost two dozen.
	However, his analysis of where we are today as a society may have been accurate.
	So how do we proceed in ways that are not terroristic?
	Or do we just expect, Rajyad, that the That's a great question.
	That's a very good question to end on.
	the left, the cause for liberation whilst they want cogs that are suppressed, will lead
	to its collapse, or is the damage they will do to civilization too great?
	What is the correct non-Ted Kaczynski response?
	That's a great question.
	That's a very good question to end on.
	I find that whenever you see something for what it is, you should do a Sun Tzu jiu-jitsu
	move where everything has balance, and so when you find something, you can figure out
	what the other side of it is.
	Try to figure out what is the natural weakness of whatever thing you're going to fight, and
	how do you push it to the level where it falls apart?
	We're in a very lucky place where the left wants to kill itself.
	Just look at wokeness.
	So how do we get to the place where the left does that naturally without taking our entire civilization with it?
	And I think, I posit at the end of that video that The thing Kaczynski didn't account for is the internet, where the internet, if it's used correctly, has the potential to override everything Kaczynski said.
	Where the internet allows decentralized communication, which co-ops every single point Kaczynski says about the scale of industrial civilization.
	What you would need, though, is to structure the internet so that Governments can't use it for data harvesting.
	It wouldn't surprise me if this already exists.
	If governments can use AI to monitor the population and look through these telescreens, we are not free.
	Otherwise, the internet does allow decentralization.
	I frequently say that The biggest thing conservatism needs now is ideas, because conservatism, we have a lot of dynamic people, we have lots of popular support, but we don't know what to do with it.
	And I think if adjusted, Kaczynski's message is very applicable with conservative values, because the thing Kaczynski champions is We want to operate through tradition and informal connections rather than bureaucracy.
	That's Conservatism 101.
	Rather than being terrorists, I think we should restructure our society to get rid of the managerial and the bureaucratic classes, because that would first of all completely disarm the left.
	It would get rid of their base of support, and it would also allow the return of the kind of society that Kaczynski talks about.
	Yeah, and I don't think it's an accident in one of your recent shorts you also said, um, who is the master of that Sun Tzu jiu-jitsu and who used the internet to perfect effect?
	My former boss, President Trump!
	Just look at what he did in 2016, and God willing, he and his supporters And if you put me back in the White House, their reign is over.
	one days before the election. Fabulous discussion. That was only one of his
	videos we dissected. Watch all of them. Subscribe today at WhatIfAltHist on
	YouTube and follow him on Twitter. I'm Sebastian Gorka.
	This is America First.
	Whatever you're doing, wherever you are, keep your head on a swivel, watch your
	six, hold the line, never give up, never give in, and stay frosty.
	And if you put me back in the White House, their reign is over. Their reign will be over.
	And they know it.
	And America will be a free nation once again.
	We're not a free nation right now.
	We don't have free press.
	We don't have free anything.
	In 2016, I declared, I am your voice.
	Today, I add, I am your warrior.
	I am your justice.
	And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution.
	I am your retribution.
	Not going to let this happen.
	One of the president's most provocative speeches at CPAC, I am your retribution.
	Why?
	And is that what led to his attempted assassination less than a month ago in Butler, Pennsylvania?
	Is it linked to a new taxonomy, a new category of politics, national populism?
	Perhaps we should ask a chap who wrote a book with that title.
	National populism, the revolt against liberal democracy, Roger Eatwell and Matthew Goodwin.
	We are delighted to have Professor Goodwin with us here on America First, one-on-one.
	Great to be with you.
	So, Dr. Goodwin, I saw you with my friends.
	You gave a fascinating interview on the Trigonometry Podcast with Frances Foster and Konstantin Kisin, and that's why you're on the show.
	We like to poach and borrow the best guests from around the world, and this is a rather good show.
	For those unfamiliar with your name here in America, you have perhaps the most popular political substack in the UK.
	You've advised all kinds of organizations, including the House of Commons on education.
	You're a senior advisor for the Legatum Institute.
	It's hard to put you in a box.
	I wouldn't say you were cautious in that interview, but you're not the typical conservative commentator, nor the head-in-the-clouds, ivory tower academic.
	Matthew Goodwin.
	Who is Matthew Goodwin and what has he done?
	What a question.
	Well, firstly, thank you for inviting me on.
	It's great to be with you and your viewers and your listeners.
	I'm speaking to you here from a very sunny United Kingdom, but also a very restless and divided United Kingdom.
	We've got riots and unrest sweeping across the country.
	I'm sure we'll come and talk about that in a second.
	I mean, who am I?
	I'm an academic.
	I'm a commentator.
	I'm a frustrated citizen, Seb.
	I'm looking out at my country and I'm seeing the dire effects of the policy decisions that were taken by both the established left and right governments over the last 25 years.
	Mass immigration, the breakdown of our borders, a model of multiculturalism which isn't working anymore, a political class in Westminster, and I suspect this will sound familiar to my cousins in America, but a political class in Westminster which is not listening to the forgotten majority In this country, particularly when it comes to those big social and cultural questions around migration, the rise of radical Islam within European societies, the advance of woke ideology.
	So I've become increasingly outspoken.
	I'm not a traditional academic by any means in that sense.
	I don't lean strongly to the left.
	I didn't campaign against Brexit.
	I didn't have a a sort of meltdown when Donald Trump was elected in 2016
	and now he's back and I suspect we'll end up winning in November, let's see. I'm basically an
	academic that reflects the mindset of the vast majority of people in this country. That was
	the one phrase in there that I think proves I made the right choice of inviting you on this show
	is I'm a frustrated citizen.
	That one sentence explains I think much of what you've written about in your books on your sub stack and much of which we have to analyze if we're to understand.
	I think populism has become a pejorative word, the left has made it such, so whatever we want to call it, but the new, the recrudescence Of a politics that represents as many people as possible, which seems to be a function that the establishment parties on left and right are incapable of, and thus the rise of my former boss President Trump, thus the rise of Nigel Farage.
	I wish we could talk for hours and we could do it in person over a cigar and an adult beverage, so I'm not going to waste any time.
	I wrote this one sentence down from your interview and I think it's probably the most Circumspect the most sagacious thing you said.
	Conservatives have seeded the issues of family, children's welfare, women's rights, history and national identity In a way to allow it to be reframed as culture wars and are on the defensive.
	Now that is a deep statement.
	I'd like for you to help me to unpack it.
	What does it mean that they've allowed it to be reframed and why on God's earth Are they running from this?
	I mean, you know, the common sense approach, and I think Americans are, you know, by dint of many things defined by their common sense, being pro-family or protecting children or women is like, uh, yeah, duh, as we say, and it's non-negotiable.
	How did we get to a point where that's been labeled as culture wars and, quote-unquote, institutional conservatives run from it at Mach 3?
	Yeah, well, I think it's a great question.
	And just before I answer it, it's great to be with a fellow cigar smoker as well.
	So next time you're in the UK, let me take you to the shop where Winston Churchill got his cigars, which is in Green Park, London.
	And we can go and discuss this at length.
	That's a deal.
	That's a deal.
	The lads took me to a very nice place near Regents Park last time and the cigars were rather expensive.
	But we'll go Dutch.
	That's the influence of China, but that's another discussion.
	So let me answer the question here.
	OK, so what's happened?
	Look, my frustration is when you look at all of the issues you just talked about, you know, we should be proud of our history.
	We should be proud of Western civilization, the greatest civilization ever.
	created, we should be proud of our values, we should be proud of how we created and advanced
	and protected individual liberty and freedom, we should defend our women, we should defend our
	children, you know, and we should be very supportive of family. All of these issues,
	you know, if I polled those issues, and I'm a pollster as well, 75-80% of people would say,
	look, I think all of this makes complete sense.
	But what we've got is a generation of conservative leaders, particularly here in Britain and the UK, but I think in America you had many of the same people prior to 2016.
	Who look at these issues as low status issues.
	They don't really know what to do.
	Explain that.
	You mean low priority or it affects their status if they change in them?
	If I were to go into Westminster and have a pint at a pub and talk to an average Conservative MP and say, you know what, we should really do something about the family.
	We've got a collapsing birth rate in this country.
	It's 1.5.
	The replacement rate is 2.1.
	The forecast suggests Britain will have a birth rate of 1.3 by the end of this century.
	We're not reproducing ourselves.
	The confident people reproduce themselves.
	We're not currently doing that.
	Let's get some policies in place.
	Let's support the family.
	Let's talk about the family.
	Most British Tory MPs would say, oh, that's a bit toxic.
	That's low status.
	It's sort of populist.
	It's out there on the fringes.
	I don't think we should talk about that.
	And I think basically what's happened is the political class has gradually moved over to the cultural left over the last 20 years.
	We've got a lot of surveys here, Seb, in the UK that show this.
	So your average Conservative MP, now think about this, the average Conservative MP politician is closer to the average left-wing Labour politician than they are to voters on these cultural questions.
	So the political class has drifted over to the cultural left, leaving lots of people saying, well, hang on a minute, why are you embracing all of this woke ideology?
	Why are you telling us that girls can become boys and boys can become girls?
	Why are you telling us suddenly that Britain should be ashamed of its history?
	I mean, you know, come on, let's get real.
	You know, what's happening here?
	And I think it is The way in which the political elites have drifted over to the left.
	So Nigel Farage, who of course is an ally of Donald Trump, he's campaigned alongside President Trump at the stadiums and the rallies.
	The reason he's done so well at the recent election, getting 14% of the vote, five members of Parliament in the House of Commons, he got nearly 100 second places, leaving him very well positioned for the next election.
	The reason he's done well is he's saying, you know what, I'm going to talk about these issues.
	I'm going to say I want to reduce mass immigration.
	I want to end that policy.
	I want an immediate freeze on immigration.
	He's saying he wants an immediate ban on woke ideology, particularly in schools among our young people.
	He's saying that he wants to root out diversity, equity and inclusion in all of our public institutions.
	And to be honest, he's also the only one Who's really talking about radical Islam within British society.
	Segregation in communities.
	And even there, I've seen Nigel be a little bit of terpsichore here.
	You could tell that's the one issue where he goes on live TV, where he's like, what can I say?
	What can't I say?
	And that's from Nigel.
	So I want to continue the discussion in a moment, staying on this topic, the disconnect between The Voters and the Political Elites.
	We're talking to the Senior Advisor of the Legatum Institute, Professor Matthew Goodwin, mattgoodwin.org.
	Follow his substack, you will not regret it.
	And if you enjoy the deep dive, the long-form discussion with fabulous guests like the good professor, make sure you are subscribed to the podcast on the platform of your choice.
	Just plug in Sebastian Gawker, America First, leave us a five-star review, share the links with your friends so the truth will out.
	And if you'd like my former boss back in the White House, if you want to have prosperity, borders, and how about no new wars?
	That would be nice.
	We put the iconic image from Butler, Pennsylvania, on a t-shirt, on a mug.
	You can get all your America First gear and all of my books at SebGorkaStore.com.
	That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A-Store.com.
	But most important of all, please support him directly at DonaldJTrump.com.
	That's DonaldJTrump.com.
	Professor, Maybe it's a function of these Labour and Conservative politicians all having gone to Harrow and Eton and then Oxford and Cambridge together.
	But even if they're from the same socialisation units, I still can't credit What I hear from my friends in the UK, which I see here with the analogue of the Democrats or the RINOs, the Republicans in name only,
	It's like they have double-digit IQs.
	They can't fathom the obvious that having no borders or giving money to our enemies, this is the case of the current administration here giving billions of dollars to Iran, are bad things!
	Shipping the jobs of the working class in tens of millions out of the country to China or Mexico will be detrimental not only for the nation and the working class, but for their political survival.
	So, I know you're not a psychiatrist, but this is a wall I bang up against again and again and again.
	How do these people Just simply not get it.
	I know they go to the fancy restaurants and they read the right Twitter accounts, but at some point doesn't reality impinge upon their lives?
	Well, I think there are two points I would make in response to that.
	The first is one that I'm actually stealing by a friend of mine, Rob Henderson, Dr. Rob Henderson, who's at Cambridge.
	And Rob was really the guy who came up with this wonderful phrase, luxury beliefs.
	And he drew on a long line of research in sociology, because what he said is, actually, what we've got today in the West is an elite class that basically derives their status, their sense of esteem, their sense of moral righteousness over everybody else from a particular cluster of luxury beliefs, their passionate support for immigration, their woke ideology, their calls for open borders or to defund the police.
	And Rob made a really good point.
	He said the thing about those ideas is they bring people in the elite class very few or no costs at all.
	But they impose enormous costs on everybody else.
	The most obvious example of that would be mass immigration, which we know from the literature has had a disproportionately negative effect on working class voters in Western economies.
	Globalisation, another example.
	There's a good reason why People like Donald Trump and Nigel Farage are sceptical about globalisation without having some kind of preference for national economies because over the period between the 1990s and the 2000s it completely blew apart working class communities in America and Northern England.
	And so Rob says, look, you know, this luxury belief class, it's actually not interested in winning support from the masses because they're projecting these beliefs to try and win status and applause from other members of the elite class.
	And I think that is really a critical thing as to what's going on.
	And just just if I can briefly, The other idea in psychology is this idea of belief reinforcement, that even when you're wrong, even when the evidence is overwhelming that things like mass migration are weakening Western societies and economies, people hate being wrong.
	So what they do is they double down and they essentially radicalise even more.
	And you can see this with the Democrats in the US.
	You can see it, by the way, over here.
	We've got a new Labour government, a very left-wing government, which in response to the most significant riots and protests that we've just had, Here on the streets of England, in response to mass immigration, the Labour government has said, well, we're going to have even more immigration over the next five years.
	That's belief reinforcement.
	That's a government that's not listening.
	It's just doubling down on its existing beliefs.
	And that's a dangerous government, sir.
	Yeah, you just wonder that at some point, if you've been doing something for years on end, And it threatens your political survival that even the belief reinforcement function would be somehow undermined by the expectation that you need to survive politically.
	I guess not.
	Yeah, I mean, I think maybe that's part of it.
	I think also for many people, I know in America, John McWhorter at Columbia has made this argument, that for many people on the left of politics today, this has become a new religion for these people.
	They view their support They view their support for open borders, they view their support for defund the police, they view their support for gender ideology as something equivalent to a new religion that you cannot question, you cannot criticise, because if you do, that's blasphemous.
	You know, you have the rituals, taking the knee, shouting Black Lives Matter or Allah Akbar, as we saw on the streets of England this week, where we had many British Muslims expressing a pretty a sort of slogan that I don't personally want to hear
	shouted on the streets of England.
	For many people, I think this project that we're in, this elite project, isn't actually
	political at all. I think it is a new religion for these people. It's become almost like a cult.
	If you question it, as I've been doing on social media, I know you've been doing it because I
	follow you on social media, if you question this religion, if you criticise it, they come after you
	like a religious cult.
	They try and counsel you.
	They try and harass you.
	They try and intimidate you.
	They try and take away your livelihood.
	So it takes a few brave people, I think, you know, to quote a recent politician to fight, fight, fight, but to stand their ground and not cede any territory.
	Yeah, we'll talk about what's happening in the UK momentarily.
	Shocking, shocking imagery from the streets of cities like Leeds, and then the response from the police is perhaps even worse.
	Please check out Matt Goodwin's sub-stack.
	The books you should be reading are National Populism, The Revolt Against Liberal Democracy, and Values, Voice, and Virtue.
	I'm Sebastian Gorka.
	This is America First one-on-one.
	The news cycle is insane.
	It's like we're back in the White House with President Trump moving at the speed of Trump.
	To keep abreast of the breaking news, make sure you're following us on all social media platforms that are relevant.
	Look for my name Seb Gawker or Sebastian Gawker on True Social, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Parler, Getter, Telegram.
	You can watch us by downloading the Salem News Channel app or finding the Salem Channel on your Roku, your Fire Stick, or your Samsung Plus device.
	And for original content and analysis by me, including what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania,
	go to my Substack, sebastiangorker.substack.com.
	That's my whole name.
	There's one word, sebastiangorker.substack.com.
	You see something that said, take a look at what happened.
	I'm going to go.
	Just a month ago, the attempted assassination that came within one-eighth of an inch of succeeding, killing President Trump, was the plan.
	But for the last moment, his turning his head to a graph of illegal immigration that was being broadcast on a wide screen at the rally, that's what saved his life.
	His speaking truthfully about illegal immigration into this nation, more than 20 million in three and a half years.
	The number is not that bad in the UK, but it has led to violence on the streets.
	The death of three beautiful young girls recently was the trigger for that.
	Matt, I grew up in the UK under Margaret Thatcher.
	It had a place in my heart.
	I don't recognize it anymore when I go back.
	I see lots of tweets from people I know and people who I've respected in the past saying this is it, this is the breaking point, we're on the edge of civil war.
	Can you explain to American listeners and viewers what your measure is of the situation and whether this is a seminal moment in British history?
	Well, the first thing to say is I'm personally quite glad that Margaret Thatcher is not around to see the state of the country today, if I'm honest with you, Seth, but that's another point.
	Look, what is happening is we've reached a watershed moment in this country.
	A son of two immigrants from Rwanda wandered into a dance class, a Taylor Swift dance class for toddlers, and he stabbed to death three of those young girls.
	He injured another eight.
	He was then apprehended by the police.
	It's important to say, Seb, that that wasn't the only incident.
	in that week.
	We also had young gangs of second, third generation migrant youths holding machetes and knives running around the coastal town of Southend-on-Sea.
	We had a British Army officer almost stabbed to death by, again, somebody from a minority background.
	But in the aftermath of those stabbings of those little girls, many people hit the streets.
	They were frustrated.
	They rioted.
	They protested those riots spread across the country and the reaction to those riots from the political class and the police, I think many people have found staggering.
	The Labour left-wing government immediately branded those protests as far-right thuggery, saying that essentially everybody who was protesting about mass immigration, the breakdown of law and order, our broken borders, we're far right thugs.
	And at the same time, the policing appeared to be taking a softer line in policing minority communities, Muslim communities, and adopting a harder line when it came to policing white British communities.
	And of course, this is against the backdrop of police officers here in In the UK, taking the knee, showing solidarity for Black Lives Matter, you know, taking what many people consider to be pretty, pretty openly political positions.
	So look, I'm just going to be very real with you seven, your listeners and viewers.
	I'm very worried about the state of our country, because it is visibly divided.
	Our political class refused to talk about the issues that are causing this division, immigration, broken borders,
	a model of multiculturalism which isn't working anymore.
	And I don't think anybody in frontline British politics currently, maybe with the exception,
	well, I think with the exception of Nigel Farage, is willing to do anything about it.
	They're not asking the right questions.
	They're not even allowing us to have a debate.
	And just lastly, Seth, the other thing which I found absolutely remarkable,
	and Americans I think will find it shocking, is we've now seen a concerted attempt
	to shut down dissenting voices, to crack down on what people are saying on social media.
	You read my mind, so let me just read this from Thursday.
	This is from the Crown Prosecution Service.
	We don't have the equivalent here, but these are the people who decide what people, what cases should be prosecuted by the government.
	And this is the Twitter post.
	Think before you post on social media.
	Content that incites violence or hatred isn't just harmful, it can be illegal.
	And then gov.uk, the government's Twitter account, Retweets it saying, think before you post.
	That tweet was ratioed into the dust.
	Elon Musk even commented.
	And then I'm just going to mention this one from the Cheshire Constabulary that I found on Friday.
	Woman arrested in connection with inaccurate social media post.
	I mean, I know it was 1984, but I guess George Orwell was just off by 40 years.
	I remember the great quote from that book, of course, the party tells you to ignore the evidence that you see with your eyes and ears.
	Well, look, there's lots of evidence floating around right now on social media.
	And as Elon Musk pointed out, he said, are we living in Britain here or are we living in the Soviet Union?
	What's going on, Seb, is we have a political elite that's panicking.
	They are panicking because they know they're losing control of the narrative.
	They're losing control of the national conversation.
	Here's the thing, and this is where our conversation comes in.
	We're not in the old world anymore.
	We don't have to rely on the legacy institutions anymore.
	We have a new media ecosystem.
	We have the podcasts.
	We have the substacks.
	We have the YouTube shows.
	We have the shows like Trigonometry, which you mentioned.
	Great show.
	You know, we have GB News, great television channel here and it's just opened in America.
	You know, we have a new media and it's not going anywhere.
	You can't just fold all this stuff up, put it in a box and hope all of this stuff goes away.
	And that is what is alarming the political elite in this country.
	Because one of the remarkable experiments to think about here is what would have happened during these riots and unrest if we had not had Elon Musk controlling Twitter and X. Because I tell you, the main source of information for people during, you know, these widespread riots was what they were seeing on Twitter and X. Everything else was controlled.
	So you'd look at the BBC, the state broadcaster homepage, and you'd have this curious narrative as to what was going on.
	They'd say things like, mostly peaceful disturbances in Muslim communities.
	And then you'd go on Twitter and X and you'd see, you know, Muslim gangs patrolling neighborhoods with swords, with full-size ninja swords.
	And you would look at this and you'd think, wow, we are being misled.
	There is an official narrative at play here.
	And so what I'm saying is, I'm deeply pessimistic about the country, but the one cause of optimism, the one glimmer of hope I do have, is this new media landscape that actually, you know, our conversation reflects today.
	Because if you can reach people, have a conversation with people outside of the legacy institutions, if you can be insulated from those institutions, if you don't need to be dependent on those institutions anymore, you can have enormous impact and reach, and you can have a real conversation with real people about real issues.
	Yeah, yeah.
	We'll talk about what the response should be for those who believe in The Great Britain I grew up in.
	We're talking to Matthew Goodwin.
	He's the author of National Populism, the revolt, the co-author of the book National Populism, the Revolt Against Liberal Democracy, and is also Values, Voice, and Virtue.
	Follow him on Twitter and on his Substack page as well.
	We're coming to you from the reliefactor.com studios just outside the insalubrious, fetid, rank, malodorous, noisome swamp that is Washington, D.C.
	All right.
	In your interview with our buddies at the Trigonometry Podcast, you talked about what should people do in the face of, for example, the transgender lunacy.
	And I think you were speaking from personal experience as somebody who's lived in academe and taught in institutions that aren't exactly today, how should I say this, open-minded.
	And it was clear that you You weren't about really pushing back very loudly because you made the point that people have to pay the rent.
	They have to survive.
	It's those of us, like you and I, who are independently able to do what we do and financially viable who have a role to play.
	Now, I just want to make one comment with regards to the math or the mathematics of the situation.
	You said that The woke in our societies are just 15%.
	I think that's probably a little bit of an exaggeration.
	I think the really woke are probably 10% or less.
	But to agree with you, they're the loud ones.
	They're the ones on Twitter.
	They're the ones that, you know, the pride parades with their genitalia are out and they're the ones making sure you conform.
	So it's not as bad as it could be.
	But my response to that Accurate statement is, it doesn't matter if it's 5% or 3%.
	As the child of those who grew up under communism and who escaped communism, In communist nations, how many in those nations were true Marxists?
	How many had read Das Kapital or the Communist Manifesto?
	I would put it to you, a fraction of the population.
	The question is, did everybody else provide a permissive environment which allowed the denuding of everyone's civil rights?
	So, people need to read your books, people need to check out the Legatum Institute, they need to go to your substack, they need to go to your webpage, mattgoodwin.org, but I want a prescription from you, because I don't want there to be, what was it, Enoch Powell's prophecy of blood in the streets, to be the scenario for the UK or for the US.
	They just tried to murder my former boss, a Democrat donor tried to do that.
	So is there not more of a forward-leaning, proactive stance that everybody must take even if they're being forced to write DEI social justice statements by their employers?
	Sorry for the length of the question.
	I think it's a great question because when you have You know, monocultures, we call them in these institutions, when there's groupthink, it really is the vocal activist minority that end up dominating the 10 to 15 percent.
	And you're absolutely right to point that out.
	So we need to find a way in society generally of empowering the more moderates, if you like, who can actually take a stand against the radicals.
	And it's going to take a few Brave pioneers to lead the way and they're going to suffer consequences and costs for doing that.
	And I think we all know who those people are.
	We can see them in our timelines.
	We can see them in our social media feeds.
	I think the other thing we need is a lot more collaboration and coordination in what we might call the alternative ecosystem.
	You know, you mentioned in the UK we have that great show trigonometry, well look, one of the things I do on a
	monthly basis to all my followers is I say, don't just follow me, here are 20 other people I learn a
	lot from, go and follow them as well.
	And I think we need to really lean in to that collaboration, that's really important. And also,
	you know, I'm a big believer in trying to stretch what we call the Overton window,
	the acceptable range of discourse and conversation in politics, because that's been set
	by the elite class. Now of course in America Trump was...
	President Trump was the first person really to do that when he came down the elevator.
	And of course, the rest is history.
	In the UK, we don't really have a figure that has done that to quite that extent.
	Nigel Farage has come close, but I would argue, you know, we need people to go maybe a little bit further.
	And that means being willing to challenge the zeitgeist openly.
	I mean, I've been getting heat for the last week because I said in response to these riots and unrest, here are three things we should be doing right now.
	End the policy of mass immigration.
	No more non-essential immigration into Britain for the next 10 years.
	Keep some migration for the NHS, but that's it for the National Health Service.
	Number two, fix our broken borders.
	Do whatever is necessary to fix the border.
	And over here, That means leaving something called the European Convention on Human Rights.
	It's a kind of a European court.
	We need complete control over our own borders.
	And number three, no more broken multiculturalism.
	I do not want a policy that says if you're a minority group, you can celebrate your identity, your history and your culture, but if you're part of the majority, you should feel ashamed and embarrassed about who you are.
	So for those three obvious common-sense proposals, you received heat?
	I'll tell you something, sir.
	I've had conservatives telling me that I should be removed from public life for saying what I just said to you.
	And that really shows you how far to the left Many mainstream conservatives are in the UK.
	And I would just say to your viewers and listeners, remember, you know, you guys are ahead of us in the sense that I feel like the UK is in the pre-2016 era, right?
	We're in the kind of, you know, the Mitt Romney type of conservative era, let's call it that, right?
	We haven't had the renegades yet.
	They're coming.
	Watch the next five years.
	They're coming.
	The renegades, the pioneers, they're about to come over the hill.
	But you guys are a few years ahead.
	You've gone through, you've challenged the consensus, you've built up a more compelling offer that's more in tune with ordinary working people.
	The British Tories have refused to do that, so I suspect over the longer term they're going to have to be replaced.
	They'll have to be either completely replaced or they'll have to be completely remoulded around a much more compelling offer to the British people because those people, Seb, feel today very, very unsafe.
	They feel very anxious.
	They feel very insecure.
	They're wondering who is controlling this country and why on earth are they not doing anything about the problems we've discussed?
	We're talking to the Senior Advisor of the Legatum Institute.
	Follow him on Twitter at GoodwinMJ.
	Anyone who... Any conservative who criticizes you for those three comments is no conservative.
	I'm Sebastian Gorka.
	This is America First One-on-One.
	How did we get here with open borders, radicals in charge of one of our two parties, defunding the police, giving billions to our enemies?
	It's all in Katie's brand new book with Mike Gonzalez, Next Gen Marxism, What It Is and How to Combat It.
	Get it today, if only for the concluding chapter on what you can do about it.
	That's Katie Gorka, Mike Gonzalez, Next Gen Marxism, What It Is and How to Combat It.
	And don't forget her new podcast with Jennifer Horne, The Happy Women Podcast.
	And you don't even have to be a member of The Fairer Sex to listen.
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	What will you be smoking as you listen to the podcast and read Katie's book?
	Well, I'm glad you asked.
	I've been looking for years for a cigar worthy of our website.
	It's finally arrived.
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	Exclusively at sebgorkastore.com.
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	We've only got a couple of minutes left, so maybe this is a tease for our next...
	The last thing you said on the interview with our buddies in the UK was, we need to discuss more what's happening with young women.
	How weird, quote-unquote, their situation is.
	Meaning they're outperforming young men, educationally and in the economy, but they're going massively left-wing, which is exactly the same here.
	Young men going conservative, young women just off the charts, crazy left-wing.
	What do you think that leads to?
	Why is that such a bad thing?
	Could it mean the reassertion of manlier men?
	Men who aren't studying sustainability and gender studies in college?
	For me that's a good thing.
	Or is it a more dangerous cleavage of the two sexes?
	Well, I'll keep my answer brief, Seb.
	I know we're a little bit tight on time, and I'm now intrigued to try one of your cigars, which I'll be getting online.
	Or maybe when you're in the UK, we can have one next.
	I'll send you some.
	Don't worry, I'll send you some.
	What's happening is, you know, we have basically seen Women, young women under the age of 25, particularly university, college-educated women, they've gone off the cliff in terms of how fast and far they've moved to the left.
	They've gone, since the 1990s, they've moved about 20 points to the left in some of our survey measures.
	Men have actually really either stood still or, as you say, they've leaned a little bit to the right, depending on what country You're looking at and I think this is a really big problem.
	It's a massive age divide.
	We've never had it before since we've been tracking this stuff.
	I think it's going to fundamentally change the institutions because those institutions are becoming more dependent upon university educated women.
	And I think potentially it's going to affect families, relationships, you know, because they have very different outlooks, very different worldviews.
	I'm not sure how you bring them back together.
	I don't have an answer to this problem.
	But I can tell you that over here in the UK, if you look at Gen Z, only 8% of Zoomers from Gen Z voted for the Conservative Party at the election just gone, and most of those were young Gen Z men.
	Women overwhelmingly swung to the left, very socially liberal, very woke, if you like, embracing a lot of these issues around gender ideology and so on.
	So, look, this is the beginning of a trend.
	We don't know where it's going to go.
	We've never had this before in history.
	We've never seen this before in the data, but it's pushing men and women further apart.
	Well, I think we've found the topic for Professor Matthew Goodwin's next book.
	In the meantime, check out National Populism, co-authored by the good professor and Roger Eatwell, and also Values, Voice, and Virtue.
	Follow him on Twitter, on his substack.
	I'm Sebastian Gawker.
	You've been listening to One on 1.

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