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Feb. 8, 2022 - Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes

01:39:05

S4E86 - THE STORY OF THE CLASH

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Time	Text
	That was the card cheat from this album, London Calling.
	Welcome to International Clash Day here at Get Off My Lawn.
	We're going to be talking about the history of the clash and the singer of the clash, Joe Strummer, who I would consider a friend.
	That song, it's got this line, from the Hundred Year War to the Crimea.
	And it's, I think Mick Jones put it together.
	I don't know who wrote the lyrics, though.
	I bet Strummer wrote the lyrics.
	Strummer was an overeducated aristocrat who was a socialist.
	So it's strange that I would consider him a pal.
	But that was the good old days.
	You could be friends with people that you thought were different.
	Strummer lost his brother when he was about 20.
	His brother committed suicide.
	And his brother was way too right-wing for me.
	He was a National Front Nazi.
	But I think Strummer liked me because I reminded him of his brother.
	I was born almost the day his brother died, killed himself.
	So maybe I am his brother.
	Maybe his spirit is in me.
	Because when we first met, it was this incredible bond.
	We just were instantly best friends.
	I've only experienced this with relatives.
	Like, I hadn't seen my cousin in like 10 years, and it was just zhump.
	We just shumped right back into our normal buddy selves.
	It was like we hadn't missed a day.
	And I found out that he was a big mod since I last saw him.
	And we had shopped at the same mod shop on Kings Road.
	I think it's called Mod Rafinia or something.
	Anyway, so we'll get to all that.
	But when I saw, like, that song is so dramatic and beautiful and sad.
	And it seems to be about all the men that have died in the world that we don't pay homage to.
	And in this day and age, we don't just not pay homage to them.
	We resent them.
	You could be president of the United States.
	And in this day and age, you're called a dead president, right?
	These history books are all just full of dead white men.
	Remember that African guy who was in the Glasgow Portrait Museum?
	And he's African, but he's Scottish, and he's just like, when I look around, I see all of these white men who I don't identify with.
	Yeah, okay.
	I'm guessing if I go to the Nigerian Museum of Portraits, I'm not exactly going to be drowning in gavs.
	So I think that's a beautiful song from a beautiful time and a beautiful moment in The Clash's life.
	In this episode, obviously I want it to be for people who don't like The Clash.
	That's sort of always been my motto with any content is make sure, make my mom want to read it.
	But I think the story of The Clash is really interesting because it's sort of like Glenn Beck's book, Miracles and Massacres, where they fucked up by trusting authority.
	And what Glenn Beck does in that fantastic book, it's in my top 10, you really got to read it, Miracles and Massacres.
	He talks about how the good guys always win.
	And the only time the good guys lose is when the good guys lose faith in themselves and they let the bad guys win.
	And he talks about, was it Trail of Tears?
	What was the one where they shot all the Indians in the back?
	So that's one of our worst moments, obviously.
	And Beck points out, yeah, really, really bad.
	But he goes, that happened because the top brass, the authority, you know, fuck the police's boss.
	The police's boss showed up.
	And they were transporting Indians to a POW camp, which is fine.
	We were at war with them.
	Normal war procedures.
	But back then, your gun was everything.
	It was like your house and your car and your job all in one stick.
	You needed it for food.
	You needed it for everything.
	You needed it to protect yourself.
	So it wasn't that weird to let the POWs keep their guns.
	So they're taking these prisoners to the thing, but the prisoners keep their own guns.
	What if a bear jumps out at them or something?
	And then the bosses, the sergeants, the lieutenants, the captains show up and they say, what are you doing?
	Why are you letting those Indians have guns?
	And they go, it's just working, boss.
	Can we not rock the boat here?
	They go, no, go confiscate all their guns.
	And just like the NYPD in New York City right now, arresting kids for fucking not being vaxed, throwing people in jail for not being tyrannical enough, that's what they did.
	They started taking all the guns.
	And the Indians said, no, fuck that.
	And the top brass created a problem where there wasn't one.
	And that's what happened with the clash.
	They let their manager destroy the band and destroy the friendship between Mick Jones and Joe Strummer, which almost killed him, that betrayal.
	He was so ashamed of himself.
	And another angle with all this, too, is betrayal itself, loyalty.
	There's a strange thing with us middle-class types where we're more likely to just turf everyone.
	You're all X'd.
	And it's a way a man evolves, or at least a middle-class man.
	I want to make sure you can see all the cool pins.
	But it's not really a blue-collar thing.
	Blue-collar guys are more parochial.
	They're more loyal.
	They don't move from their neighborhoods.
	They end up living down the street from where they grew up.
	Middle class are much more mobile, much less sedentary.
	And like with the Beastie Boys, they were happy to just stab the fat chick in the back and become a guy band.
	It was what's, and it turned out pretty good for them.
	And with Joe Strummer, he was like a rock folk guy who was in a rockabilly, folky hippie band.
	His biggest inspiration is Captain Beefheart, which we've argued about before.
	He fucking sucks, even worse than Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart.
	But then Bernie Rhodes was discovering punk and he had put the sex pistols together and he's like, you need to, Mick Jones and Joe, you guys need to can the 101ers.
	Mick Jones was in a band called London SS.
	Mick Jones is Jewish and the SS was the Nazi symbol.
	We used to have a sense of humor about stuff.
	And he was a real progenitor of punk.
	Everyone says it was Malcolm McLaren, but Bernie Rhodes was a huge influence.
	But that doesn't mean he's your daddy.
	And being fatherless, Joe Strummer listened to him too much and convinced him to kick Mick Jones out of the band and that was the end of the band.
	And then they did Cut the Crap, which is considered one of the worst albums of all time.
	I don't know.
	I fucking love it.
	Speaking of the BC Boys, we have this Clash box.
	I've never even opened this before.
	This boom box thing.
	Let me.
	How do I get it out of here?
	This is for those people that are just addicted to buying shit.
	Because the Clash only have like six or seven albums.
	So they want us to keep marketing.
	So now it's every C D in a boom box.
	A double CD, which doesn't make any sense.
	Oh, my CD ran out of room.
	I need another CD in there.
	Sandinista will be discussing.
	I don't like this album.
	I never really listened to it.
	Oh, no, I did.
	I did have a Sandinista phase.
	I remember texting Pat and Oswalt and saying, dude, I'm giving Sandinista a chance.
	You should listen to it.
	It takes a few tries, but it's really good.
	And he responded, ew, no.
	That's back when he was funny.
	You know, speaking of this Sandinista thing, I did like it for a while and then I lost the ability to like it.
	But when I was young, you had so little access to music that sometimes you just listened to the album that you had because it was the album you had.
	For example, I won, we did an Airband competition in like junior high, and our band won.
	And one of the prizes was some random records no one gave a shit about.
	And I got Mondo Bongo by the Boomtown Rats, which if you just dropped it out of the sky right now, you'd go, this sucks, this is garbage.
	But it was the only record I had back then.
	I just got a new record.
	I got my first record player.
	So I listened to Mondo Bongo 7 million times, and now I love it to this day.
	So how much of our love of music is based on repetition?
	Like GBH, that band I made myself like because they looked cool and I wanted to be the kind of punk who likes GBH.
	They're a shitty band.
	Discharge, another band, very hard to listen to, but I made myself like them through repetition and now I love them.
	And there's a great book called The Hitmen where they pay DJs to put these singles on heavy rotation.
	And eventually people start loving the song.
	So obviously there's terrible songs that suck shit and there's great songs that are good.
	But in that gray area, there's definitely a huge influence you have with repetition.
	So you can make yourself like shit.
	And it's a challenge to make yourself like that.
	Yeah.
	Look, we've got a giant cigarette in here.
	Cute.
	And some pins and some old zines and some stickers.
	All right, let's start the show.
	So I just want to sort of go through their history and bring it back to the concept of groups.
	Not necessarily bands.
	This happens in businesses.
	I mean, what I went through with Vice was somewhat similar to what happened with Mick Jones and the Clash.
	We became incompatible, and no one's sure who kicked who out.
	And it'll happen to you if you're a young man.
	Actually, if you're any age, like my 13-year-old, last year there was a huge split in his crew and he got turfed and was persona non grata.
	I think it's because the main guy or one of the top alphas in the pack liked a girl and the girl liked my son.
	And so he was punished.
	That happened to me too in high school.
	Dave LeBerge liked this girl, Tammy Curry.
	Dave LeBerge was a fat fucking loser who ate cereal for dinner.
	Of course he's going to be attracted to me.
	I was breathtakingly gorgeous in 1983.
	So then he started a coup in our gang, our crew, and I was all alone.
	So I had to rebuild a crew.
	This is like starting a new band from scratch and get the McCarthy twins and a bunch of other guys together.
	And the next thing you know, my crew was better than the Dave LeBerg's crew.
	So there was Exodus from his crew over to my new crew.
	A crew crew.
	There was a crew cube.
	People think I'm cuckoo when I talk about these crew cuz, but they happen.
	And it happens in business.
	It's funny because it's the kind of thing that happens to you when you're 12, but it happens to you in business all the time.
	You start a new company, a new startup, and then the people from that company want to come over.
	So the story of the clash is the story of your life, is what I'm saying.
	That's a good title.
	So yeah.
	The 60s was a cold time, especially in Britain, where they had just survived a world war, everyone was dead, and people were just heartless.
	I mean, it was the same here.
	Here in New York City, you had that orphanage where they took identical twins, including triplets, identical triplets.
	Well, of course, you can't Have heterogeneous triplets, can you?
	But anyway, they wanted to do experiments on nature versus nurture, which is a noble cause, but not a noble system, where they would take the three twins.
	There's a movie about this, a documentary.
	I forget what it's called.
	We're all the same or something.
	But they took this guy.
	They all should have been kept together, but they took this guy and they put him with a rich family.
	They put this guy, they put him with a poor family, with a very loving mother.
	And then they took this guy and they put him with a normal middle-class family, but the dad was a workaholic and he was never around.
	And then they checked in on them every few years and didn't tell a soul.
	So that's like eugenic shit.
	That's Nazi stuff.
	And though we fought the Nazis, we were sort of behaving like them in many ways in this sort of cold, rational, inhuman way.
	I mean, maybe Hitler changed the global culture for a while because we were not sweethearts, especially the British upper class, which is what Joe Strummer was.
	Joe Strummer was the son of a diplomat who his dad was in India with the railroads over there.
	He was born in India.
	His mother was Scottish, which might be part of our bond.
	And he was sent away to private school, a boarding school at the age of 10.
	And after that, it's sort of like China.
	You only see your kids once a year.
	And this is why I always say China sucks, because there's no love in a country where you only see your kids once a year.
	All that matters is kids.
	And we'll get to that at the end of this.
	His beautiful children, Lolo and Jazz.
	Is it Lolo or Lola?
	His two sweet daughters.
	I can't remember.
	And so he was essentially an orphan.
	And Bernie Rhodes was an orphan, too.
	He was literally an orphan.
	Bernie Rhodes grew up in a Jewish orphanage.
	I'm not sure why you'd have a Jewish orphanage.
	That sounds weird.
	And don't make this thing, this shit about Judaism, please.
	Yes, Bernie was a ruthless manager that fucked everyone over in the end.
	But Mick Jones was a Jew too, and he was a victim.
	And back then, no one gave a shit.
	I hate this rewriting of history where there's a documentary about polystyrene of X-ray specs coming out, and you know it's going to be all about her blackness and how she was Ethiopian.
	No one noticed that she was black.
	No one noticed Don Letz was black, the guy we just saw.
	There they are.
	And no one noticed that Mick Jones was Jewish.
	It wasn't a thing.
	He was in a fucking band called London SS, for fuck's sake.
	So, yeah, he went to a private school, boarding school.
	He's upper class.
	And the problem with that is, when you're upper class, you tour the world.
	You know, you're visiting your dad in India.
	You're off to the Crimea.
	You're getting incredibly educated.
	The Hundred Year War.
	That's why their lyrics are so dense.
	Like Sandinista.
	Who the fuck knows what Sandinistas are?
	Aren't they like Nicaraguan freedom fighters or something?
	We got to know about that war.
	And he's talking about the Hundred Year War.
	That was in like the million years ago.
	That was Ottoman Empire shit.
	Crimea.
	But he's so well educated that it crams into those songs.
	But the problem with rich people, and this is why they're socialists, is because as they travel, they get only the cream of the crop.
	So say they go to China.
	They don't go to some disgusting rural village where there's no electricity and people put their mattresses out on the road because they heat up with the sun and they might be warm that night and they work 15-hour days in inhumane conditions and are whisked away to prison for speaking against the president,
	all kinds of torture and genocide.
	They're not exposed to that.
	You go to Singapore.
	You go to Shanghai.
	You have a delicious meal.
	You see some cool, like, 30,000-year-old instrument playing.
	And you go, I love China.
	Communism works.
	And then you could, even you go to Venezuela.
	You only see the cream of the crop.
	I'm convinced Glasgow was deemed the city of culture because whoever the judge was just landed at that one little student area with the cobblestone streets and didn't go to the Gorbels or East or Shaolin's or Pollock Shaws and saw the grime and the soot.
	So you get this pro-multicultural thing where you end up with cultural relativism and you go, all of the world is beautiful.
	No, Joe.
	God rest his soul.
	I don't want to disparage the dead here.
	But no, Joe.
	When you're in America, that tiny little area of wealth is fucking huge.
	Like, go check in on illegal aliens in California.
	You know where they are this weekend?
	They're riding, their kids are riding ATVs at a race.
	They're racing ATVs.
	And they're camping in their RV that weekend to watch the races.
	They're all doing really well.
	So the point is every country in the world has their elites.
	They're rich.
	Our poor are basically elite.
	I mean, what's our biggest problem in America?
	Our poor eat too much.
	So the reason that the West is better than the East, better than Russia and China and all these other places, is that we have more wealth, more freedom, more joy.
	You think we're all the same because you're rich and you only check out the nicest parts of all these places.
	Yes, Bosnia has the most beautiful beaches in the world.
	It also has a fucking civil war where Milosevic was playing soccer with human heads.
	It sucks there, man.
	And the strange part is, too, when punk began, the sex pistols were just like, nah.
	I talked to a kid, not a kid, a man who was a kid back then.
	He said, yeah, you don't know what it was like, man.
	I mean, the Clash were just a band.
	And people went, yeah, they're cool.
	But when we were kids, we were genuinely scared of the Sex Pistols.
	Like, we thought Johnny Ralton was going to come out from under the bed and bite our legs.
	So because the Sex Pistols were just the villains, they were like the slayer of the scene, the evil monsters, the Clash had to be the voice of punk.
	They were called the only Band that mattered.
	And because of Joe's politics and his dense knowledge of history, he had a lot to say.
	And so they became the voice of punk, really.
	And that voice was typical rich stuff.
	It was all about rock against racism and how we have to fight against fascism and shit like that, which is as ridiculous back then as it is now.
	I was more of a crass guy.
	Crass used to make fun of them.
	In fact, there's a song.
	Oh, they went on the White Riot Tour in 1977.
	Actually, White Riot was pretty based.
	That was their first single in 77.
	And Mick didn't like it.
	He thought it was too violent.
	But basically what Joe Strummer was saying, and it's something I say all the time, is where's the white riots?
	There's plenty of black riots, but why aren't whites getting mad?
	You know?
	And I feel that way about like that commercial we watched with Kumia last week where the guy's sipping coffee and he goes in the white guy's face.
	We should get mad about that.
	There's plenty of riots when a loser like George Floyd dies, but how many young girls have been murdered by decrepit monsters and we don't go near it because we don't want to be offensive.
	Even that whole trans rally that we had a couple years ago by the Brooklyn Museum and there was like, it looked like 100,000 people really.
	Wouldn't it be cool if you had the guys who killed the trans people?
	Because they're all black gangsters.
	So you were like, this guy killed a tranny.
	People would beat you up and take your sign, basically.
	So we need more truth in that.
	We need more white riots.
	And of all races, like everyone should be outraged about these girls being killed.
	Like the girl who was stabbed in the park, who went to go buy weed, and they put her in the headlock and stabbed her to death.
	That's way more intense than George Floyd, way more racial.
	And whites just went...
	Or what about Asians?
	Let's have an Asian riot with all of these attacks on Asians.
	I'm obviously not saying go attack blacks.
	I'm just saying that black people seem to be the only ones that can express their anger.
	And every other race just has to look at the ground and go, yeah, I kind of had it coming.
	I mean, I did support slavery.
	But what are the lyrics to White Riot?
	There's a line in it where he goes, black man got a lot of problems, but they don't mind throwing a brick.
	White people go to school where they teach you how to be real thick.
	I can't hear it.
	See, this was a super raw album.
	Just the three of them there.
	The drummer, Terry Chimes, had left.
	And so in the credits, they call him Tory Crimes.
	He wasn't into the political stuff.
	I don't think any of them were.
	Paul Simon in there in the front, he was just into being a gorgeous babe.
	Mick Jones was just a great songwriter.
	And then Joe Strummer had this agenda, this socialist agenda, where he wanted to make the world get well.
	Who knows?
	Maybe he's behind all this Antifa shit culturally.
	I talked to Billy Bragg once, the folk singer, and he said that he was just doing love songs before he heard the clash.
	The fuck was that?
	Hey, FBI, you got to develop your technology here.
	Every time I say one of your code words, I get some kind of a message from my phone or my Alexa.
	This is from 1999 when I met him.
	First time we met.
	I sound like a homo right now.
	And he told me a story about this.
	So this was in some, I don't know, fucking alleyway in Shepherd's Bush where they recorded this first album, this super raw album with White Riot on it.
	And he was with his daughters, Lola and Jazz.
	And his 99, it would have been his girlfriend.
	He couldn't marry the mother of his children because he got paid 100 pounds to marry some South African because she wanted citizenship.
	And then when it was time to really marry her, what was her name, Gabby?
	When it was time to really marry Gabby, yeah, I put a picture of her in the emails.
	Gabby Salter.
	He couldn't get divorced because he couldn't find the South African chick.
	That's what you get.
	So he's with Gabby and his girls, and he goes, oh, fuck, we're right by the alleyway.
	So he goes, all right, everyone, close your eyes.
	And he makes Gabby and his two daughters close their eyes, and he leads them to this.
	And then he stands exactly there.
	And he goes, Ry, open your eyes.
	And then they go, oh, yeah, all right, dad.
	And they walk away.
	So what he wrote on this was, to Gavin, open your eyes.
	I said to the crowd, but no.
	That's something people don't get about him is that he was fucking funny.
	I think that's why we had a connection because we were both into humor.
	He used to always say, take off, you hosa, to me.
	Did you show that picture of her shithead?
	Yep, coming up.
	It's a web page.
	It only took you an hour.
	It's not opening.
	No, it's in the email.
	The actual picture.
	The attachment is showing up as a web page link.
	That's strange.
	Not good.
	Okay, well, let's try to get to it.
	I'm trying a whole lot.
	You know, who's like Tucker, I mean, who's like Joe Strummerlot is Tucker Carlson.
	No one would believe me based on the media's perception of both characters, but they both went to all-boys schools.
	And when you go to an all-boys school, I told you, I'm gay for men.
	Men love to riff.
	So Tucker and Joe are both great riffers.
	There she is, Gabby.
	She's the blonde.
	She was always hanging out with the band.
	Fun gal.
	Jesus, his daughters look exactly like her.
	Cute, fun chick.
	They're together for about 15 years.
	Show this signed album?
	Yeah.
	But no!
	I said to the crowd, but no.
	So yeah, in that song, White Right, it says, black man got a lot of problems, but they don't mind throwing a brick.
	And then Krass had this song, White Punks on Hope.
	I love this song so much.
	It's so much more...
	It's so much better lyrically than anything the Clash did.
	I don't know why I'm bringing that up on International Clash Day.
	By the way, that's why we're doing this.
	It's Clash Day.
	But check out the beginning of this song.
	I have this engraved on a piece of wood, by the way.
	Oh, I should have brought that.
	Fuck.
	What are the lyrics?
	What a name is Crest, not Clash.
	I can stop them back in truth.
	Rock against racism is our found the white men standing in a palm.
	Perfect.
	They said because of racism, they'd come out on the street.
	It was just a form of fascism for the socialist elite.
	Bigotry and blindness, a Marxist con.
	And here we are today.
	Damn.
	On this show, screaming.
	All this talk about racism is a Marxist con.
	Objecting to racism is like a candle in the dark.
	Black man has his problems.
	He's got his ways of dealing with it.
	He doesn't need help with your white liberal shit.
	When Givanche dubbed you a terror spouse, you should have been like, hey, I got a cool song you could listen to.
	Given Shea?
	You mean like the clothing line?
	What is her name again?
	Penny Louis.
	Givé.
	Giva Shea, okay.
	Given Shea.
	And when Gucci called you a terrorist.
	So yeah, we're still in 1977, their first album.
	That's this year.
	And they had this energy about them.
	The 101ers, Joe's first band, opened for the Sex Pistols, and there was this electric energy in the air, which unfortunately is constantly linked to the Ramones.
	We talked about this in my History of Punk.
	It's bullshit.
	The energy was already there, though New York was an influence, but I think the biggest influence was just reading about punk.
	Like you hear the damn talk about the single New Rose, and they go, yeah, we heard punk described.
	Someone brought some punk zines back from New York City, but we hadn't heard the music.
	So this was our interpretation of it.
	And they nailed it.
	And that same album had a cool song called Complete Control with Lee Scratch Perry.
	Remember I was talking yesterday about the influx of Jamaicans in the 70s?
	So one of them was Lee Scratch Perry.
	And he helped produce this song.
	Great video.
	You can kind of hear the reggae in it.
	They were the first band to be sexy, too.
	Like the sex pistols were not trying to be attractive.
	The class were trying to be stylish.
	Especially that guy, Paul Simon.
	The bassist.
	And he was a dream boat.
	I'm gay for him.
	Not in a jokey way.
	I want to blow him.
	So then they came to the States.
	Never happened in the States.
	Never.
	And they got signed a CBS.
	But Bernie Rhodes wanted to keep their edge, so he didn't give them any money.
	Oh, that's the dude who introduced them at Chase Stadium.
	That must have been 80...
	That must have been the end.
	Like 84.
	But so they decided to get, like, I think this dude who produced this produced Blue Oyster Cult.
	And it's a super polished album that they hated.
	There was nothing spontaneous about it.
	There was nothing fun about it.
	And it almost killed the band.
	And there's some pretty good songs on it.
	Julie's in the Drug Squad.
	Guns on the Roof.
	The only real takeaway from this is Tommy Gunn.
	Wait, why isn't it listed here?
	Last Gang in Town.
	There's No Way Spend Your Youth.
	Guns on the Roof.
	Drugsty.
	Oh, Tommy Gunn, yeah.
	That was a hit.
	I seem to have marked the songs as a young teenager.
	I've marked the songs that are good with a pen.
	Just in case I didn't realize what a good song was.
	It's too clean.
	It's not fun enough.
	See, one thing you realize when you look back at the history of a band is what a delicate balance it is.
	And the thing about marriage is it's also a delicate balance, but you can mold it.
	You can say to your wife, like, we need to have a date night once a week.
	We're not connecting enough.
	Or you need to spend more time with this particular kid.
	He hasn't seen you in a week.
	But with bands, you can't really do that.
	You can't say, like, Mick and Jones need a date night every Tuesday.
	You guys have to go out, have a nice steak dinner or something.
	They're just, Mick and Joe are not getting along at ends.
	That's why there's so few bands that we talk about.
	What are there?
	There's like 10.
	You know, bands that lasted this many records.
	So, play some of Tommy Gunn.
	Is there a video for that?
	That shit is a fucking drink.
	Is that them playing Tommy Gunn?
	Cool, neighbor.
	It's not easy to carry off a pirate shirt with a giant scarf.
	Although Withnail did a good job of it and Withnail.
	Jesus, British people, you got to get some fluoride in your water.
	Don't listen to Alex Jones.
	Your teeth are a nightmare.
	Turn the frogs infinitely gay.
	Yeah, I don't care how many gay frogs you get.
	You look like you just got in a fight with that baseball gang and the Warriors, and they won.
	A lot of violence at these early gigs.
	There was one in Glasgow that Mick Jones blamed on the song White Riot.
	And, You know, Glaswegians, they're particularly ornery, and there was always fights.
	They were a very violent band and they thrived on it.
	And then, being the pussy that he is, no, not a pussy, I take that back.
	But there was one concert in Germany, I think it was, where the crowd was getting out of control.
	So, Joe took his stratocaster off and smacked the guy in the head.
	He said, That really affected me.
	I felt really bad.
	Wait, let me get his accent right.
	I felt really bad.
	I don't know why I hit him in the head.
	And from then on, I was against violence.
	So, yeah, that was 1978.
	And the Bouncers beat the shit out of everyone in that Glasgow gig, and they've gotten a lot of shit for that.
	So, I think that with this polished album, not getting any of their money, Joe just goes, I'm done with Bernie Rhodes.
	You're out of the band.
	Great move.
	You know, history is written by the winners, so if you look up Bernie Rhodes, it sounds like he's an awesome dude.
	He's not.
	He was a ruthless cocksucker.
	And the other thing you got to understand about bands back then is, like, now a manager is almost a slave.
	He's like a tour manager or a line producer.
	He just like sets up the appointments and you call the shots.
	If your manager told you to always wear a leather jacket and leather pants, you just laugh at him.
	But back then, you know, Malcolm McLaren said to the New York dolls, I want everyone wearing red because you're communists.
	And they said, okay, we're communists.
	So they would wear like hammer and sickles and stuff and be communists.
	It was fucking retarded.
	But it was because Malcolm McLaren told them to.
	Of course, when the band is absolutely nothing, it's kind of frustrating too.
	You can overdo the styling.
	I met We Were Promised Jetpacks once, that Scottish band.
	Really good band.
	But on stage, they're wearing like a t-shirt and sweatpants.
	And I go, guys, you look like shit.
	People spent 25 bucks to see you tonight.
	They're staring at you for an hour and a half.
	Put on an ensemble.
	Have something.
	Make it worth our while.
	Just wear all, you should all wear, look at them.
	They look like IT guys.
	They should all be wearing black suits with skinny ties, like, what's it called?
	Ulysses, Nation of Ulysses.
	Anyway, so they fire him.
	And he goes on to have a pretty good career.
	He does the specials, I think was his biggest band.
	And you know what's funny?
	In the song Gangsters, it starts out, you can hear the black guy go, Booney Rhodes knows, don't argue.
	Because Bernie Rhodes take was that they were fighting all the time.
	I don't know if fighting all the time is a bad move if you're a real man.
	That's him right there.
	You have to listen closely.
	Bernie Rhodes knows, don't argue.
	And ultimately, it was arguing that destroyed the clash.
	But arguing is good.
	Arguing is healthy.
	Fighting is good.
	Fighting solves everything, as we always say.
	There's some Jamaicans perfectly assimilating into English life.
	Right after they kicked England out of Jamaica and then came running, said, we changed our mind.
	I don't want to move out, mom.
	See, there's a look.
	This is what I styled the proud boys on.
	Clean, proud, working class mods.
	Okay, so we're up to 1979 now.
	Bernie Rhodes is gone.
	And we have, I think, possibly the greatest album of all time, London Calling.
	I mean, I remember having this on a cassette that was on a loop.
	There's not one shitty song on the entire album.
	And the variety is what's incredible.
	That must come from Joe Strummer's multicultural upbringing where he's going all over the world.
	And, you know, Jamaican reggae, that's nothing.
	He's listening to Indian folk and all kinds of crazy shit.
	Oh, and this guy, the producer for this was Guy Stevens.
	He produced Mat the Hoopo.
	And Mattha Hoopo had a lot to do with punk.
	Punk comes from glam.
	And Mattha Hoopal were a glam band.
	But the thing that made them unique was they were real friendly to their fans.
	They'd hang out with them all the time, let them come backstage, invite them on stage.
	And that became a punk thing.
	And then it became a hardcore thing.
	It still is to this day.
	And that was pioneered by Matthew Hoopal.
	And the clash, they were really hard to work with.
	They didn't make a lot of money.
	I think Joe Strummer's estate is worth like a million pounds.
	I spend that on Coca every year.
	Because they kept record sales as low as possible.
	They'd argue with the promoters and make sure the ticket prices weren't too high.
	When they opened for The Who, they couldn't control the ticket prices, so they made the promoter donate part of their share to some fucking bullshit charity.
	But London Calling is a fucking damn...
	What about what's that song?
	Elevator Go It Up!
	Oh yeah, Career Up.
	No.
	Clampdown.
	Check out the beginning of Clampdown.
	Have you got that one?
	Oh no, that's Coca-Cola.
	But Clampdown's a classic, too.
	It's exciting.
	Like, they sound liberated, freed.
	They're out of the boring studio where they did give them enough rope, and now they can do whatever the fuck they want.
	Oh, and here's another thing, too.
	When they got signed to CBS, they were called sellouts, and everyone hated them.
	Sex Missiles did okay with EMI and everything, and they weren't really seen as vile, I guess, because they were literally, you know, monsters.
	Puking and shitting and stabbing.
	But the clash had let everyone down by signing to CBS and putting out that shitty album.
	So this one.
	So it was kind of liberating.
	We lost our manager.
	CBS doesn't like us anymore.
	Punks hate us and think we're sellout faggots.
	And then you had this concept of anything goes.
	It's a great concept.
	The people who declared International Class Day is the radio station KEXP over in Seattle.
	And the thing I used to love about it is the variety.
	Like you'd wake up and you'd hear Grandmaster Flash and then Helmet and then the Pixies and then fucking the Bundu Boys and then Death by Milk Float and then the rolling stones, and then the jam.
	It was just all over the map, but well mixed.
	It wasn't like jarring.
	And then you know what fucking happened to them?
	Get woke, everything woke turns to shit.
	Now, because of George Floyd, believe it or not, they have an African-American BIPOC who handles the morning show.
	It's no longer John in the Morning, which was the show I was just talking about.
	It's this like part, I don't know what he is, Somalian.
	He speaks like he's from East New York, which is an affectation.
	And it's all like scientific hip-hop and backpack rap and new soul.
	Like Erika Badu, but worse.
	If that's imaginable.
	Hard to imagine, yeah.
	And the thing, like, I always get in shit for saying the West is the best and they think you mean white.
	And I have said, like, I guess predominantly Westerners are white, if you really want to get into that.
	But I realized this the other day because it sounds like a contradiction when I say, no, Western doesn't mean white, and then most Westerners are white.
	I realized, like, white culture is diverse.
	It's the most tolerant culture.
	And that's what's evident in things like this.
	With this lover's rock and revolution rock, reggae song, jazz, Jimmy Jazz, Spanish bombs.
	Like there's such a huge variety here.
	Check out the beginning of Coca-Cola.
	I love this beginning.
	You can really hear that Topper Hedden.
	As Joe Strummer put it, the drummer's the engine of the band.
	And you can hear him really controlly songs.
	You know, the opening song, Card Sheet, was written by Topper Hedden.
	He's playing the piano.
	Or then there's Lost in a Supermarket, where Joe Strummer just moved to New York, and he was like, I don't know anyone here.
	He would go to Niagara occasionally.
	I'm not sure it was called Niagara then.
	I think it was called 7A.
	There's a big mural of him there now.
	I went with him to Niagara a few times.
	But this is just like, he's got his shopping cart.
	And they're not really that famous yet.
	And he's just like getting beans and toast.
	Jump in the middle.
	I think that's Mick Jones.
	Anyway.
	So that's the masterpiece that is London Calling.
	Loss in the supermarket, clampdown, guns of Brixton.
	Death of Glory.
	And then they put out this weird...
	They said that they were going to put out a single every month in 1980.
	But the record label shut it down.
	So they said, fuck you.
	And they put this out.
	It's a bunch of covers, really.
	This is a picture.
	That's Don Letz.
	The guy who ended up being in big audio dynamite with Mick Jones after he left the clash.
	The guy you saw, the black guy you saw at the beginning of the show with the long, long dreads.
	That's him walking up against the police.
	I said the Jamaicans assimilated beautifully into British culture, but it wasn't perfect, obviously.
	There was these riots.
	I think these riots, what were they called?
	The Kingston riots or something?
	Are what inspired White Riot?
	But yeah, there's just a bunch of really awesome fucking reggae.
	Oh, check out this song, Bank Robber.
	Check out the video.
	This is, I think, my favorite video ever.
	This is a dub remix of their original song, Bank Robber.
	Produced by Mickey Dredd.
	I don't think you could possibly get cooler than this.
	What's the black guy doing?
	Just playing a tambourine.
	Can't you get a tambourine sample?
	Oh my god, you should have seen what Ryan wore today for Clash Day.
	Have we seen you yet, Ryan?
	No.
	I had to do a make an outfit overhaul.
	You're supposed to be wearing that Shaguevara hat.
	It messes up my headphones.
	Put it underneath your headphones, genius.
	Yeah, but it still doesn't create a nice feel.
	I don't like it.
	It feels weird.
	What's with the primping?
	You get that from Katsu?
	He was wearing a brown leather.
	Well, I'll show you the picture.
	He's wearing a brown leather jacket.
	I go, what are you doing with your jacket?
	He goes, I don't know.
	It's like a leather jacket.
	I go, they didn't wear brown leather jackets, you fucking moron.
	I'm a punk.
	And then he had a t-shirt on with a tie that he got from a Salvation Army.
	The ugliest Paisley tie you've ever seen.
	It's right here.
	It's not Paisley.
	It's worse.
	Throw that in the garbage.
	I can't.
	It's for LARPing as a 1990s guy.
	So it should be in a costume trunk.
	It should be in your tickle trunk.
	I got a tickle trunk.
	We'll put it in there with wigs and funny sunglasses and like makeup.
	Oh.
	We look like we're the clash.
	I'm Paul Simonon.
	You can be Topperhead.
	I'm Topperhead.
	Named after the monkey in Topper Comics.
	There's a...
	Yeah, look at this video.
	Best style, too, isn't it?
	That's such a great look.
	Skinny jeans that are floods, brothel creepers, pink socks, a Harrington, and a bandana.
	You can bring those bandanas back now with COVID.
	Those are their roadies, those two guys.
	So I think this video inspired that movie called Rude Boy that the Clash fucking hated and did everything they could to get rid of.
	I thought it was a great movie.
	There's a funny scene in it where the main character, Ray Gans, who was their roadie, they must have been real mad at him for doing that movie.
	He's like, I don't know if you should do...
	Don't do politics.
	Don't do socialism.
	It leads to communism.
	It's just a bad look.
	Maybe that's why Joe liked me because I reminded him of the rude boy who said, stop it.
	See if you can find that.
	Rude Boy Clash, Ray Gange.
	They're sitting at a pub.
	I can find this on my illegal hack box, but it's a really hard film to find.
	I thought it was good, you know, for an old indie film.
	Yeah, turn that up.
	I don't think the clash would be political, you know?
	I can't hear shit because they're left politics.
	They're like real hypocrisy.
	It's like the Socialist Workers' Party.
	They say left wing is the truth.
	Follow the left-wing politics.
	But I don't know.
	Left wing is going to fuck everybody up.
	Especially socialist workers, all communist facts, like all the others are.
	I know how you feel like, because in Russia, it's just a new...
	It's just exactly the same as it was before they had the revolution.
	Just a new load of people driving around in the black cars and all the other people walking, just the same as before.
	I mean, I know what you mean.
	That's what it is here, isn't it?
	But why I think the left wing is better than the left wing is because at least it's kind of not just for the few.
	The many slaving for the few.
	But I know my idea is to make sure that I become one of the few.
	What's the point of being one of the few?
	At the moment, there ain't.
	But what happens when we all become so-called equal?
	And someone's got to control it.
	And the people that control it, then, as you said before, some people are going to be riding around in the black cars.
	So all I want to do is make sure that I'm riding around and not fucking walking.
	Yeah, like when I read about the Socialist Workers' Party, it makes me more convinced that I'm a capitalist.
	I want to have a lot of money.
	And I want to have a Rolls-Royce common and a country mansion and a house in Beverly Hills and everything, like servants running around and doing what I want.
	I've just thought about it a lot and I just think that there's nothing, there's nothing there.
	You can get all the Rolls-Royce's, all the Doe, all the country houses, all the servants you want.
	I just think there's nothing at the end of that road.
	No human life or nothing.
	And that's why I just don't want to go that way.
	That's why I think that it's all of us or none.
	I don't see the point in getting all rich and locking yourself up in that country mansion because sooner or later some cunt's going to come around with a shotgun and blow your head off or whatever.
	It's nothing there.
	I'm sure of it.
	I don't know.
	I can't think what to do with myself.
	All right, that's enough.
	That's perfect.
	Did you hear what was really going on there?
	My dad abandoned me.
	And he did, by the way.
	All you people who send your kids to boarding school, maybe 14, 15, there's an argument because, like my 13-year-old, he never looks up.
	He'll look up from someone and go, what?
	God, man, I took his phone away today.
	Every Tuesday, there's no phones.
	Did not go down well.
	Dad's not popular.
	And now even my wife is like, this is stupid.
	This is a pain.
	Like, it's one fucking rule.
	And if you're mad, it means you're addicted to your phone.
	Like Lent.
	I don't drink hard liquor during Lent.
	And I'm not happy with how hard it is.
	That's a sign.
	That's the big guy saying, hey, hey, hey, hey.
	This shouldn't be the end of the world.
	But they were just on fire in 1980.
	And then, I don't know why, but Joe Strummer said he missed his daddy and he hired...
	Wait a minute.
	Sorry.
	Let's go back a step there.
	So Joe was saying, yeah, all the money, there's no humanity there.
	Because he had all the money and there was no dad there.
	And he was also punched in the stomach at the age of 18 by his brother's suicide.
	So it made him very callous about the upper class.
	Which I resent as an upper class person.
	By the way, I got my car.
	Did I show you this?
	No.
	I'll tell you what it is.
	You can look it up yourself.
	I got it in Idaho, so I got to ship it here.
	It's going to be $1,700 to ship here.
	The final bid was like $13,000, but look up a...
	It's got 50,000 miles on it.
	A 2000 Jaguar XJR.
	It's weird.
	I show it to mechanics.
	I'm like, yeah, it's a nice car.
	And every time you talk to a mechanic, you look at his car, and it's like a fucking maroon Subaru.
	And you're like, like a guitarist.
	Look at all of Joe Strommer's guitars.
	They're all works of art.
	He's never on a Walmart guitar.
	But mechanics are always in the shittiest, ugliest cars.
	And they just cycle through them.
	They feel nothing for them.
	It seems weird to devote your life to cars and then feel the same way about cars that I feel about my fucking dog.
	That seems a little squarer than mine.
	I mean, the profile is my favorite part, and the grill's pretty wonderful, too.
	Look at that fucking thing.
	Like, I can't wear jeans in that.
	I have to wear a black suit every time I drive.
	And it has a fucking cassette deck.
	So I'll be rummaging through eBay for combat rock.
	Maybe I'll just only do the clash in my Jaguar.
	That sounds like a cool idea.
	Yeah, that's what I'll do.
	I'll get all of these on cassette.
	Sound system extras.
	The card sheet was an extra.
	The opening song, that wasn't meant to be on the album.
	So, anyway, Joe misses his father figure, so he brings Bernie Rhodes back.
	Dude, what the fuck?
	After all of this success, London calling, black market clash, and they put out this stink bomb that we already talked about, Sandinista.
	The only good song on his is Magnificent 7.
	They were getting heavily influenced by New York.
	And that's really the aesthetics of this show.
	It's 1981, the clash in New York City.
	They sold tickets at this place called Bonds Disco.
	It was a 3,000 capacity.
	No, it was a 1700 capacity.
	But Bernie being the fucker that he is, he oversold it several times over.
	So instead of saying sorry to everyone, the clash played there for an entire week.
	And to go back to the sort of diversity of the typical Westerner, they had rap opening and disco opening and all these different people.
	And in Britain, the black thing was like, it was Jamaicans.
	It was cool and fun.
	But in New York City at the time, it was dangerous.
	There was a real racial rivalry there.
	Like rappers and punkers did not get along, especially in crime-ridden New York.
	So it wasn't all about diversity and being friends yet.
	And so there was a lot of violence there and fighting and booing.
	And then Joe would come and go, look, look, if you got a problem with, you know, Grandmaster Flesh, then we're not going to play.
	So enjoy this or shut up.
	And they sort of forced everyone to appreciate the diversity of the Clash's taste.
	But the only song on this, I think, is The Magnificent Seven, which featured kind of rap.
	This is back when they were doing rap songs.
	You know, remember Blondie had a rap song and fucking Billy Otto was much later, but Queen.
	Too funky.
	This is sort of like Paul's Boutique or Hoosker Dew's Zen Arcade or Crass's Yes Sure, I Will.
	It's like they overindulge themselves until they ostracize us.
	We liked it when you indulge yourselves and you were who you wanted to be with London Calling.
	But you're getting way too indulgent with this.
	Play that.
	This is the aesthetic of GOML.
	Well, actually, no, play the news thing from the Bonds Casino because that was such a cool time.
	I think John Joseph from the Cro-Mags went to these shows.
	What an electric time.
	So there's no time to stand around with some nice pair of velvet trousers on going on about what you're going to do to your woman tonight.
	Half of Europe's listening to the same rubbish.
	Not all of America's listening to the same rubbish.
	Just, you know, just get all this rubbish out of the way so that you see what's going on.
	They are the Clash.
	And since they emerged in 1976, they've been setting the industry on fire with their refusal to conform.
	The Clash was one of the first groups to bring together Jamaican reggae and punk rock.
	Some of us grew up listening to black records and the best records going around at the time.
	And also for me, when I actually learnt bass, I actually played along listening to reggae records because I could actually hear the bass.
	The calculation!
	Okay, and then go to the...
	That's not as fun as this next one.
	Always took on music that was going on around us on board and made it part of our thing.
	Mick Jones is the one who's, again, he's the king arranger and he's bringing in that.
	He was always looking to do the new thing and that was really banging off in New York.
	Rap was there, it was like 1980.
	Shut up, Sam.
	The others used to call me Whackatack, and you know, I walk around with a beatbox.
	So they've been around for about three years.
	They were about 25 years old when they started, so now they're like 30.
	We just like hooked up.
	And they're blowing up.
	And WBLS played it to death.
	You couldn't go anywhere in New York that summer without hearing that.
	And that was us weirdo, punk, rock, white guys doing the kit.
	Isn't he endearing?
	He's kind of a silly kid.
	When I would walk around New York with him, he was always going through the fucking garbage.
	Look at that.
	Why would someone throw that out?
	It's a broken Puerto Rican flag.
	And that was like another signpost of what was to come.
	We sort of fell in with some graffiti artists and they made a big banner for us.
	Where's the banner?
	That's when New York City was so ugly that the citizens had to start drawing on it to make it less disgusting.
	Let's play this with bala leikers.
	Everyone would have gone, give me the biggest balalaika.
	You know, people, we were open about stuff.
	Mick Jones bringing in the new sound of New York and stuff, and Simo with his reggae thing, and me with my rhythm and blues thing, and Toppa with all his soul chops.
	And we could just do that.
	I mean, it's very aesthetically appealing, that old shitty New York.
	I don't want to be there.
	I don't want to get mugged and raped and have people step over my dead body.
	But it's cool to look at.
	So anyway, Topper was doing too much heroin on that tour.
	Yep, you can see all this footage we got from that.
	And they kicked him out of the band.
	And then we had Combat Rock.
	Which actually Topper Hedden had contributed quite a bit to.
	But the record label was not happy with Sandinista, so they had to drum up some excitement for Combat Rock.
	And so Bernie wrote to, Joe, you didn't vanish, but call me every day to make sure you're okay.
	And Joe didn't call him every day.
	He went to Paris.
	He genuinely vanished.
	He ran the Paris Marathon of all things.
	One thing about Joe's drummer is he had his girlfriend that gave him his beautiful daughters, and I think he was a good dad, but he wasn't a great husband.
	He would cheat on everyone at all times.
	He eventually got monogamous with this aristocrat named Lucinda, I think.
	That was like in 1995.
	He dumped Gabby and he married this aristocrat named Lucinda.
	She took his real last name, whatever that is.
	I thought it was kind of funny that after all this, like, I hate the rich, the aristocrat's son ends up marrying the aristocrat.
	Was that Lucinda?
	So I think he had stopped cheating by then.
	Oof, she's ugly.
	Lucinda Tate.
	So she's, I guess, Tate Gallery or something.
	She's from Big Money.
	That's his daughter, I believe.
	Anyway.
	So things should suck.
	It should all be over.
	And then Combat Rock comes out and just fucking explodes.
	Now they're becoming rock stars.
	Now it's going to their head.
	These guys were...
	Imagine you're 20, in your early 20s, and you start this roller coaster ride where you become the most popular band in the world.
	They always say, if you want to ruin a man, give him everything he wants.
	So this is where you gotta fucking, I mean, maybe Bernie Rhodes was right to deny them money.
	This is where we're losing Topper.
	He's there in the middle there, not for long.
	And everyone's doing drugs, getting shit faced, getting in trouble, cheating on their significant others, traveling the world, and getting more and more popular.
	It must do your head in, as they say.
	Also, playing the same songs every night, that must drive you fucking nuts.
	How many times could you play Should I Stay or Should I Go?
	It's a beautiful song.
	It's Mick Jones.
	But...
	Oh, by the way, speaking of Mick Jones, I forgot to mention Train in Vain.
	He was fucking the chick Viv Albertine from the Slits.
	I know, that's boring.
	He went to fuck her and she didn't fuck him, so I took the Train in Vain.
	Who cares?
	So yeah, this one.
	And you know what else is kind of based about this is the song Rock the Kasbah is about Iran banning, look at this, this cost me $3.99.
	Iran was banning American pop music and dance music because it was corrupting the youth.
	So they did a parody of that.
	You got to show the video, Penis Lips.
	But this album has, this was their big hit album.
	And it also has so many fucking cool, weird songs.
	That's Copperhead and playing the guitar.
	I mean, the piano.
	I guess they hadn't fired him quite yet.
	Where'd they get the armadillo?
	I want an armadillo.
	Me too.
	Maybe we could have one in the studio with our manta shrimp that we have not made any progress on.
	I mean, their droppings are probably just little pellets.
	Yeah.
	Let's get an armadillo.
	With armadoodles all over the floor.
	How funny.
	Okay.
	True.
	But check out this song that no one talks about that's on the same album, Death is a Star.
	I mean, you gotta fucking appreciate someone, even Sandinista.
	You gotta appreciate when someone gets that popular, like Coca-Cola, and they keep changing the recipe.
	This song is so fucking weird.
	In a one-stop only motel, the storm bangs on the cheapest room.
	The phantom slips in to spill blood, even on the sweetest honeymoon.
	Maybe that private school education wasn't so bad for you, Joe.
	You're a fantastic poet.
	And speaking of poets, that also had the ghetto defendant song that had Alan Ginsburg on it.
	Is it Alan Ginsburg or William S. Burroughs?
	Alan Ginsburg, wasn't he the fucking pedo?
	Got a whole track list here.
	Ghetto Defendant.
	Slam dance metropolis.
	Hooked on Necropolis.
	Anyway, lots of cool, weird songs there.
	That's what I always appreciate about them.
	They're never boring, you know?
	But yeah, I'm only going to have clash cassettes in the car.
	so they're falling apart.
	I don't know why.
	They just had combat rock, but it's going pretty bad.
	And then they're just too big for their bitches.
	If you want to ruin a man, give him everything he wants.
	And they're coming to a close now.
	And Mick and Joe aren't getting along.
	That's a bad move.
	They should have worked it out, but someone was too stubborn.
	And you will be there.
	You will arrive like this in your life.
	If it's your marriage, it's malleable.
	But if it's a business partner, a bandmate, even a friend, sometimes it just becomes impossible to work out.
	You know, with friendships, I feel like there's a cell phone plan.
	And every year they say, do you want to update your cell phone plan?
	And sometimes people go, no, I want to get a fucking Android.
	And it's the end of that phone number forever.
	And in this case, it's pretty sad.
	The most you can hope for is that you split amicably and you're fair and honest.
	And that was really bad with like Opie and Anthony.
	All Opie had to do was drive over to Anthony's house and say, look, man, I talked to them.
	I mean, I could go on strike, but I'm not willing to do that.
	I need the money.
	So you're on your own and I'm really sorry, but that's the way it is.
	That's what men do.
	And they would still be split up, but, you know, they would have died with their boots on.
	And fucking OP could sleep well at night.
	But instead, he pussied out and ran and hid.
	I think Martin Luther King said that.
	He goes, I don't really remember the rants of my enemies.
	It's the silence of my friends that I remember.
	And Mick was starting.
	Oh, there she is.
	That's the chick behind Vain training Vain.
	Still fucking hot.
	The slits were a sh garbage band.
	But we needed women in the scene, so.
	What are they talking about, these fat souls?
	It was the process by which attitudes changed.
	And the clash were the next wave of revolutionaries.
	So in the political framework, I thought.
	So I think the end was when they opened for the Who at Shea Stadium, Met's hometown, just down the street from us right now.
	If only I had a time machine, we could...
	That's what I did.
	I'm stealing this from David Cross, but he always said, if I had a time machine, I wouldn't go like changing the world and killing Hitler and saving people from drowning.
	He goes, I'd want to see The Who's first show, The Sex Pistol's first show.
	I feel the same way.
	Like, give me a time machine.
	And I'd say, all right, I'm on my way to kill Hitler.
	And they go, okay, good.
	Tell us how it goes.
	And then at the last second, I'd go, 1982, Shea Stadium.
	So that's it, Shea.
	The planes have to come through again.
	Maybe they just got too big?
	You don't really have to write lyrics outside of albums, I guess, right?
	Things are not this lit anymore.
	Because there's always a percentage of people on their phones.
	Yeah.
	This is zero phone.
	Everybody's dialed in.
	Yeah, good point.
	100% dialed in.
	And they give better performances because of that, I bet.
	Because they know there's that feedback.
	It must be a bummer to look out over a crowd and just see a thousand phones recording you.
	What are you doing with that footage?
	There's going to be way better footage of this concert than what's on your phone.
	This is being done.
	And if you look to your left or your right and somebody else has it on videos, okay, that's being done.
	Yeah, we've got it.
	I'll go on Reddit and I'll find the best one.
	And I'll download that to my desktop and never look at it ever again.
	All right, so this is it.
	The split.
	And I don't know exactly who was first.
	I mean, Mick, a lot of the times with a divorce, they go, oh, the woman instituted the divorce.
	Yeah, but because the husband was totally absent, he hadn't fucked her in a year.
	And he would just go up and play video games in his room and not talk to her.
	So I don't know if Mick forced himself out of the band or if Bernie forced him out of the band or Joe did, but Mick was late and late and late and showing zero interest.
	And Joe said, I don't want to play with you anymore.
	And kicked him out of the band.
	I think Bernie was a huge part of that.
	I think it's because Bernie reckoned himself a musician.
	And they proceeded to make Cut the Crap.
	Paul Simon is still in it.
	Joe Strummer's there, but they have a new drummer, new guitarist, new...
	They have two new guitarists, I guess.
	And this poor kid, Vince White, he grew up worshiping The Clash, and he's finally in the band.
	And Joe was so mad at himself for this not working out that he would just show up, play the songs, and leave.
	Now, this is known as the biggest piece of shit on earth.
	The biggest mistake The Clash ever made.
	It's considered proof that Mick Jones was the backbone of the band and you can't split up a band like that.
	Maybe that is true.
	I don't know.
	I listened to this so many millions of times that I fucking love it.
	Every song.
	And the weird part is, Mick Jones, Joe changed his mind and said, can you come back to the band?
	And Mick said, no, me and Don Letz, this guy, have like a weird techno rap band.
	It's all dance tracks.
	You guys want to do your R ⁇ B and your punk?
	Fine.
	I want to evolve musically.
	So I'm doing all drum machines and samples.
	And so that's the narrative.
	But then you listen to Cut the Crap and it's all fucking techno shit.
	Like drop the needle anywhere on this.
	Okay, that's pretty guitary.
	What song is this?
	Cool under heat.
	Yeah, there's a drum machine in there.
	Drum machines.
	Three card drums.
	The hit on this is This is England, which was mostly Bernie Rhodes.
	But listen to the beginning of this song, how many samples and tracks there are.
	This is England, right?
	Drum machine.
	Kids playing.
	Violins.
	Keywood.
	Sector M. Classic Anthem.
	It's one of the greatest songs ever made.
	It's a great song to play at a bar on the jukebox because it's not invasive.
	It's just a beautiful background song that is inarguably great.
	But yeah, it's all techno beats and samples.
	Anyway, Joe hates this record.
	He didn't finish recording.
	Bernie Rhodes had to finish the recording.
	The guys had a horrible time in the clash.
	Complete failure.
	And then Joe went nuts.
	And he said, Mick was right about Bernie.
	And he tried to get him back.
	He couldn't handle it.
	So he vanished.
	And he went to Spain to live in a cave for a long fucking time.
	Oh, wait, sorry.
	Before that, though, he still had a bit of life in him.
	So 85 was Cut the Crap.
	He started doing solo stuff, and he did a really good song for the Sid and Nancy movie, Love Kills, which Johnny Rotten was not consulted on, much to his chagrin.
	But Love Kills is a Joe strummer.
	I think Mick Jones helped him a little bit with it.
	So there was hope that they might have a future together, actually, after Cut the Crap, because Joe apologized.
	They both conceded it was Bernie's fault.
	And they did Love Kills.
	But then Mick was like, sorry, John, Joe, I forgive you.
	But I got my own life now.
	I got big audio dynamite.
	But play Love Kills.
	Can Hiri's going to go sort of country Mexican soon?
	In the doodle-dabble-doodle.
	It's a cool video, too.
	Sid Bitch isn't dead.
	He escaped to Mexico.
	He's got a beard now.
	Oh, no, that's just Monet said.
	They juxtaposed the movie with Gary Oldman with a beard because he's escaped to Mexico.
	Anyway, that's a great song.
	And then that, sorry, after that is when he moved to Spain and lived in a cave and was fucked up.
	And Mick had a fantastic career.
	He did.
	Do I have the big audio dynamite songs?
	What's that one?
	Oh yeah, this.
	So this sounds like, like, imagine what cut the crap could have been with this kind of influence.
	These songs are a little too all over the place for me outside of No Rush and Equals MC Square.
	Nice hat, Nick.
	They're in Queens.
	Again, just down the street.
	Aren't they?
	Is that the big globe thing?
	From World Fair?
	Wait.
	That I'm not sure.
	That looks a little different.
	The World's Fair.
	Noft.
	Everyone wants a second act.
	Or else you were just that thing and you weren't the driving force.
	To be totally honest, I was very concerned after Vice that I would just vanish and I wouldn't be able to do anything and I wouldn't have a second act.
	And then with this punditry and the Proud Boys, I'm very happy that Vice wasn't my only thing.
	In fact, most people are shocked to find out I had anything to do with Vice, which is ideal.
	And Johnny Rotten had Pill.
	And you can tell how happy Mick Jones is that he had a second act.
	Joe did not, unfortunately.
	Kept my feet on the ground.
	Situation all the way.
	Those are other hits.
	Oh, you because I'm C Screw, but we won't sit there and talk about them too much.
	So he was fucked, living in a cave, deeply depressed.
	The future has not been written is a great documentary about Joe Strummer and those years and how there was no future.
	And he was just crushed, the poor guy.
	But you're playing with fucking fire.
	You're playing with tornadoes.
	You have this incredible power.
	We're going to get to our incredible friendship soon.
	Then in 99, he had the Mescaleros.
	That's when I met him.
	Micken and Joe did have a reunion in 2002 for a fireman benefit.
	That must have been cool to see.
	Sad I missed that.
	I was fucking 32.
	Wait, I knew Joe then.
	Why didn't he tell me?
	Do you have that one?
	The reunion 2002?
	That's the first time they'd played together.
	I can tell Mick Jones was like, I forgive Joe, but I'll tell you what, the second I walk out of that studio, I'm never fucking playing with them ever again.
	And then it was 2002, so it had been 85, seven years later.
	No, 85, 90, 2002, 12.
	It had been like 20 years.
	Fuck, I suck it, man.
	He left in 85.
	Right?
	Oh, 82.
	Yeah, 20 years.
	All right, that sucks.
	The sound sucks.
	It's not worth showing.
	But you can see them happily vibing.
	And he sort of, he replaced Shane McGowan in the Pogues for a while in 91.
	He married that aristocrat in 95, and then with the Mescaleros in 99, he started getting it together.
	And this is when I met him.
	This is in 99.
	And I met him because he was promoting the Mescaleros album.
	And he had been sitting down in this hotel room doing interviews all day.
	And the questions are like, so have you spoken to Mick Jones?
	And how is this different from The Clash?
	And what are you trying to achieve with Mescaleros?
	And what is your inspiration?
	And it's always the same shit.
	And so I came in and I said, no, that was 2004.
	I said, let's do do's and don'ts.
	At Vice, my job was, one of my many jobs, at Vice, was to do these fashion critiques.
	I highly recommend you steal this book, by the way.
	Don't give Vice the money.
	But it's just, it's pictures of people on the street and I make fun of their outfits.
	Or sometimes I compliment their outfits and say they look fantastic.
	So it's 50% do's, 50% don'ts.
	I mean, this really defined the hipster movement because we gave them pictures, although, fuck, a lot of these pictures look low-res.
	This was Warner Books weren't used to doing picture books, and I don't think they had competent staff.
	So I'm seeing a lot of fucking, that's probably why I haven't looked at this in so long because I see so much printing mistakes.
	But he loved it, and we got along great.
	So zoom in on that.
	What does that say?
	Maybe I can read it on my phone.
	Yeah, that's what I'll do.
	I'll read it on my phone.
	So that says I did the do's and don'ts with Joe Strummer.
	And as was said in the intro of the book, I feel like he truly got the joker.
	It's one of the few people I could ever see doing a better job than me at this.
	I wasn't going to will this column to him when I died, but he died first.
	His comments are in red text, and mine are just below it.
	So the first guy there in the top left, he goes, there's a certain American style of wearing shorts that is absolutely awful.
	And it's the same as the Spanish men.
	You see how world traveled he is?
	They stuff their shirts into their shorts with a belt through the loops.
	It's not on.
	And I go, we call that belt pride.
	And he goes, this guy's obviously wearing the same shorts he's had since he was a baby.
	And then the next one he goes, that is a really huge basket, really.
	Filled with stuff, maybe.
	They walk miles in Africa with that stuff on their head, and we never developed that ability here in the West.
	Oh, yeah, she's got a basket on her head.
	I didn't really realize that the first time around.
	And then in the top left, I say that guy is in plaid, we call them a drum and bass hoser.
	Oh, and then he goes, when we were doing earthquake weather in 89, we got addicted to Bob and Doug McKenzie.
	It got so that everyone in the control room was a hoser.
	I never dropped use of that word, and I never even knew what it meant until today.
	Yeah, I told him what a hoser is.
	A hoser is a Canadian redneck, but the term comes from making ice rinks in the backyard.
	You would take your garden hose and you'd be sitting there hosing for hours and hours and hours, getting enough ice for your backyard skating rink.
	So they called them hosers.
	And from then on, without exception, every time he addressed me, he'd say, take off, you hoser.
	And I was like, it's hoser.
	It's not hosa.
	I go, this is one of those jazz fan type guys.
	Wait, what happened there?
	This is the bottom left now.
	Zoom in on these, Ryan.
	Addresses himself 100% based on logic.
	And he goes, he's brave.
	We can say that.
	Oh, and then here he is defending going through the garbage.
	Is he going through that skip?
	That's what they call dumpsters and garbage in general.
	I know how he feels.
	I can't resist having a look at other people's skip.
	Bo Diddley and I can't see the other guy did the same, have the same obsession.
	It's a sickness that most guitarists have.
	I said to him, it's in my book, too, I talk about all these stories and I said, you seem like you just got out of jail.
	Like even this, you go, oh, look at this.
	We got a studio with a bar in it.
	That's amazing, man.
	We got to do something.
	Here, let's...
	We went to Niagara, the bar where they have his mural, and this kid comes up, and it's a punk bar, so they obviously recognize him.
	And this kid comes up, he's petrified, he's probably 21 years old.
	He goes, hey, are you Joe's?
	Yeah, I'm Joe Strummer from the Clash.
	And the guy's like, oh, I thought so.
	Do you think we could get a photograph?
	This is like 99, so there wasn't a lot of cell phones around.
	And he goes, yeah, I got an idea.
	Come on, let's go to the loo.
	So they go to the bathroom.
	I'm with them.
	And they do a whole fucking photo shoot.
	Joe takes off his shirt and gives it to the guy.
	And then the guy puts on Joe's shirt.
	And they're both dressed in each other's clothes.
	And they're in the bathroom stalls doing like cool poses.
	These kind of poses.
	They did a whole...
	So some kid somewhere in New York has like an entire photo shoot of him and Joe Strummer.
	He could probably tell people, although now they'd say it's Photoshop.
	Although, and there was Polaroids.
	I had Polaroids of it somewhere.
	That was the first picture you saw, actually, in these.
	It was one of the Polaroids.
	He could say he was in a band with Joe Strummer.
	Anyway, let's finish these do's and don'ts.
	These were funny.
	What does he say about the guy in the scooter?
	He goes, he's really moving that guy.
	I like the shirt.
	Coming out on the sh- coming out.
	No, he goes, yeah, he's really moving that guy.
	I like the shirt coming out the shirt.
	Full points for that.
	In a sweaty country, that would be excellent.
	He says to the next woman.
	And then he says, I really like the girl picking the fruit on the bicycle.
	And I go, that's a guy.
	And he goes, oh, yeah, you're right.
	I'm blind.
	You never needed glasses, have you?
	I think I'm on the list.
	I should go to Lenscrafters my next lunch hour.
	That was my favorite one.
	I'm not doing the delivery justice, but that's how funny he was.
	Uh-oh, I got to go to Lenscrafters on my lunch break.
	I can't see.
	I need glasses.
	And then he says of this girl sitting on the steps.
	This is at PS1 in Long Island City in Queens.
	Bottom left, Ryan.
	What are you doing?
	100 out of 100 on that.
	It's all in the attitude, isn't it?
	We're learning something here.
	And then he goes, yeah, it's good.
	About the shoes, that one's not amazing.
	And then he says to the next guy with the motorcycle helmet, he goes, Look at his helmet.
	That guy is tiny.
	Come on, Ryan.
	Keep up with me here.
	We're done that.
	Motorcycle helmet, you are a fucking torpid snail.
	Next picture.
	Next page.
	There we go.
	That guy at top left.
	Anyway, the punchline has been gang raped.
	The next one.
	I must say I like the teletubbies.
	Something about their way they wobble.
	It's really endearing.
	And he says about this guy in the fanny pack.
	Okay, we've got a big problem here.
	It couldn't be worse, really.
	Appalling.
	And we're the ones that have to look at it.
	He's medieval, but without the pantyhose.
	Get some hose on, you hoser.
	And then he says of this guy, he's wearing jeans with sandals, which is obviously unacceptable.
	I mean, sandals are always unacceptable.
	He goes, that would be a good fashion shoot.
	Sandals.
	The Stone Roses had a vibe master, a dancer named Cressa that made them rich.
	He is my sandal guru.
	Now, this is the guy in the Stone Roses.
	He was a viber.
	Cressa would come out and he would just sort of dance with everyone and get the crowd going.
	And he wore these Mexican sandals.
	And Joe Strubber drew that.
	He's my sandal guru, the only person that could ever convince me to consider wearing such horrible things.
	I've been in the most vile conditions with him, and he always has them on, and they look all right.
	He says, your feet are like your lungs.
	I'd like to think I could pull that off, but I can't.
	I haven't got the guts.
	And then finally, we have this woman with big shoes, and he says, these shoes are a bit rich, but she wants to fuck you.
	She will, it's not up to you.
	You know, that her pad is in order and the kitchen looks good.
	There's no filthy dishes, no newspapers stacked everywhere.
	And then I said, she could cool us down if we were too high on Coke.
	And he goes, yeah, we could stop gripping the table with our teeth.
	We'd be in an oasis of tranquility.
	Another 100 out of 100.
	A real stride going on here with the most difficult footwear.
	Sometimes I'm glad not to be a woman because I hate foot impediments strapped to the end of my extremities.
	This bird's very far and moving dead fast.
	If you want a good idea of what he's like, check out this.
	He's in Atlantic City promoting a mescaleros show.
	It's called This Sums Him Up.
	We're almost at the end here, guys.
	Let's put Captain Beefheart on all the guest lists from now on.
	Just stop.
	He loves Captain Beefheart.
	Possibly the worst sounding musician in the history of all music.
	I fucking hate Frank Zappa outside of maybe Valley Girl or Pajama People, yesterday's title.
	But fucking Captain Beefheart is way more cacophonous.
	It's just a fucking giant dumpster truck of sounds.
	And Joe loves it.
	Sounds like something, someone mocking.
	Word might get to him or people might start seeing him around.
	Excuse me, Gulls.
	Trying to promote a rock and roll show tonight.
	Rock and roll.
	What do you think of my bitch mind?
	You think it's too aggressive?
	No.
	You going anywhere tonight, gulls?
	That's all you've got to have a hard shell.
	Like Captain Beef said that one cold vibe won't stop this hill.
	The crucial thing is when you make the pitch, like on this type of huckster businesses, the body space between you and the punter is very, very measured and very normal millimetres.
	Some of the guys in my band.
	They're English.
	They're English.
	Tonight, when are you going to go at 9 o'clock?
	Trump Marina, the show bro.
	9 p.m. sharp.
	We begin playing.
	You want to keep the flyer?
	That's hand done by me.
	Trying to drum up this.
	This is when you can play the Trump Marina and it won't be a big deal.
	Your liberal friends won't be like, oh, what are you doing at fool?
	Yeah, he would have hated Trump.
	That would have been the end of any relationship we had.
	Okay.
	You guys covered part of that song.
	Yeah, we did the whole song.
	All right, now they talk about Captain Beerheart, which is boring.
	He gave me a little shout-out in one of his songs, Long Shadow.
	He said, There's a little do's and don'ts reference.
	I think it's Mescalero's.
	What year was that?
	When did he die?
	2002?
	Check it as well.
	I'll tell you one thing that I know.
	You don't face your demons down.
	You gotta grapple them, Jack, and pin them to the ground.
	The devil may care, maybe God he won't.
	But better make sure you check on the do's and the don'ts.
	Crawl up the mountain to reach that glimpse from the mountaintop where the soul of the music was.
	2003.
	So it came out after he was dead.
	That was really weird.
	Hearing a little Goodbye from an acquaintance after he's dead.
	So I got a little shout-out for you, Josa.
	And then I heard that after he had died.
	It wasn't cocaine, it was just he had a shitty heart like Maddie Odell who died in 2002.
	We went out to dinner one night.
	This is in my book, too.
	And the Black Crows were there.
	And Joe was like, hey, how you doing?
	All right.
	He's just like, he's the host of the party.
	Like, all right, you want to sit down there?
	And then he, and Coulter's like this too.
	All right, loud people go there.
	Quiet people go in the middle.
	You know, we want to organize this.
	And then the Black Crows guy was starstruck, I think, the singer.
	And he's like, I love me some pig.
	I love me some roast.
	And he's turning into a black dude.
	And I go, and then at one point he says, he goes, I was getting on my nerves because he was hogging the whole night.
	And I wanted to talk to Joe.
	And everyone was like, all right, yeah.
	And he's wasted.
	And he goes, I'll tell you what, I'll eat a pig's ass if they cook it right.
	And I go, that's Chris Rock.
	What's his name?
	Look him up, the singer of the black crows.
	He's got a big floppy hat on.
	Chris Robinson?
	Chris Robinson.
	Yeah.
	Imagine Chris Robinson with a big floppy, funky hat on.
	Oh, like the Jameriquai hat almost?
	Sort of, yeah, with like lots of scarves.
	Wait, that's the...
	What are you doing?
	That guy?
	Counting crows?
	Blacks, the counting crows singer.
	Yeah, get the counting crows guy out of there.
	So Chris Robinson's being all cool, rock and roll.
	And then I thought his girlfriend was pretty cool, because after I said the Chris Rock thing, his girlfriend goes, yeah, Chris gets progressively more black the drunker he gets.
	Again, 1999, back when you could joke around.
	We went out that night and I kept in touch with him a little bit.
	And the next thing I know, he's sending me a goodbye from the grave in the version of a song.
	Pretty fucking sad.
	But you know what's great is he made two beautiful daughters.
	And, well, listen to this interview with his wonderful children.
	And this is why I keep pushing you guys to have kids.
	Because Joe's gone, but these girls will live on.
	They'll have kids.
	And in that sense, Joe Strummer will never die.
	Of course his music lives on with us and inspires us forever.
	But that can't hold a candle to DNA.
	Look at these angels.
	This is why I hate these stupid parties where you get your tubes tied.
	This is what you're saying goodbye to when you don't have kids.
	They're adults now, obviously.
	Is it like the angel strong?
	Well, we get asked this question a lot.
	Yeah, it's true.
	It's actually quite normal.
	Like growing up, it wasn't a big thing.
	It wasn't sort of something.
	We weren't aware that it was ever an issue.
	We were, you know, we just had a father who was a musician and he was well known, but it never really occurred to us as being a big thing.
	It was very normal.
	Yeah, we weren't really like taught to idolise it.
	Do you know what I mean?
	It was just like he was our dad and that was it really.
	I think later in life it's more of a...
	Yeah, and also we grew up in a very creative environment.
	A lot of our good friends, their parents were artists or musicians or performers in their own right.
	So it was never anything out of the norm.
	Had an unusual upbringing, so.
	Yeah, lucky, very creative.
	We're allowed to be very free and express ourselves and I think that's where we both kind of grew into our own sort of art forms, you being a musician yourself and me being a sort of DIYer.
	Yeah, we were allowed to have total freedom of expression which was very lucky and perhaps unusual in hindsight.
	Thank you.
	Okay, that was the question.
	Is that alright?
	Did I answer it okay for you?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Anything else you want to ask?
	Yeah, go for it.
	You said you were brought out unusually.
	We were given no rules.
	Yeah, our dad had grown up from quite an authoritarian background, our grandfather being a diplomat and very concerned with sort of the world of academia.
	And he was obviously quite a free spirit growing up and he kind of didn't, wasn't kind of confining himself to, you know, his kind of boarding school background and was a bit of a free spirit and a wild child.
	And I think he had a lot of tension with his own father about this kind of relationship.
	And so when we grew up, he decided that he was never going to read our school reports.
	And, you know, we were totally allowed to do what we wanted.
	And there were no rules implied whatsoever.
	So Lola and I were left to just be completely crazy.
	I think as a result, though, I was more concerned about my school reports.
	Well, yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Lola was very, very good at being kind of well.
	We had to create our own rules in a way, which I think was good.
	It helped us.
	But you know, we both turned out incredibly sensible and so perhaps you know we're very well adjusted young women so I think in one sense that kind of total freedom really works.
	You know it could have gone one way or the other but in our case luckily we've turned out all right.
	Yeah we were naughty as children but who isn't you know is that okay?
	That was so good.
	And I'll end it with two things.
	The last song we'll go out with is Mick Jones and Tony James.
	Tony James was the genius behind Generation X. He wrote Dancing with Myself that gave Billie Idol a career.
	So Mick Jones and Tony James have a band called the fuck is it called silicon carbon silicon carbon silicon I was going to say cobalt got cobalt on the brain from the farts so we'll end with that song Mick Jones is newest but um Horace Greeley was a newspaper magnate in in New York City in the Early 1900s,
	1800s.
	This is the first hardcover version of my book.
	And he got fucked over by the people he worked with.
	And he had the same divorce that Mick and Joe had, the same divorce that you're going to have with your project, group, business.
	And the best thing you can do is, you know, try to keep everyone honest, be a handshake man, and make babies.
	All of this will be dead and gone.
	Like Neil Young is bitching about his music catalog on Spotify.
	No one is going to know who Neil Young is when the baby boomers die.
	And they're dropping like flies right now.
	In 15 years, Neil Young's music is gone.
	No one gives a shit about it.
	So this is fun, and it influenced my life, but it's not going to influence yours, and my kids could give less of a shit about the clash.
	So I'll end the show with Horace Greeley saying, fame is fleeting.
	Popularity, an accident.
	Riches take wings.
	Only one thing endures, character.
	And I would add to that, that the only reason that it's important to have character is because it's the only important thing, not fame, not money, not any of this, that you can impart to your children and leave as an impact.
	Oh, you're going to make me cry with that little money.
	So she's putting her head up now.
	Yeah.
	And so is Joe.
	Get fired.
	Get in trouble.
	Be brave.
	And never stop fighting.

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