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Jan. 7, 2022 - Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes

02:11:10

GOML LIVE #130 - THE MEANDERING

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	Stay social media.
	Cause it happens to be the end of the trend of a shitty day.
	Alive from New York, it's Get Off My Lawn with Gavin McKinnon.
	It happens to be the end of a shitty day.
	Oh boy, it happens to be the end of the tree of a shitty day.
	That's enough.
	I can't tell if he's on our side or his side.
	You should make the background the meandering.
	Welcome to an extra special episode of Get Off My Lawn.
	We are focusing this January 6th on that January 6th.
	So we've got interviews with guys facing 20 years in prison.
	We've got interviews with their lawyers, Joe Biggs' lawyer, Nordine's lawyer.
	We got John Pierce, the guy who defended Rittenhouse, and he's also defending dozens, I believe, of people who were there that day.
	They meandered in, and the world changed forever.
	It's the worst thing to ever happen in our generation.
	Now, I think it's a terrible thing because people have been rotting in prison for a year for trespassing.
	But I get the feeling that guy who did that song thinks it's a horrible day because our democracy, they threatened our democracy.
	Right?
	Usually penists are liberal.
	What are you doing?
	Why are you showing it again?
	It's just so good.
	Shut up.
	I just want to never forget.
	Never forget.
	Or as we say here in New York, never forget about it.
	Show that video that I just emailed you from Ashley St. Clair because it's this.
	And it really sums up that day perfectly.
	The man, the Buffalo man, who John Pierce, we'll have him on the show.
	We have his lawyer on the show.
	This man is in prison right now for four years, rotting away for doing this.
	Fucking hey, man.
	Glad to see you guys.
	You guys are fucking patriots.
	Look at this guy.
	He's got covered in blood.
	God bless him.
	Yes?
	You good, sir?
	Do you need medical attention?
	I'm good.
	Thank you, Jordan.
	I got shot in the fikes.
	Where are they?
	Shot in the fikes.
	I got shot in the face with some kind of plastic bullet.
	Any chance I could get you guys to leave the Senate waiting?
	Wait, wait, I've been making sure they ain't disrespecting the plugs.
	Okay, just want to let you guys know this is like the sacredest place.
	That's your insurrection.
	That's the end of democracy.
	That's our 9-11.
	Go to the first link there.
	And as Jesse from Pod Awful will be talking to him, he's there right now.
	I don't know why he fucking went there, but anyway, he's there.
	And as he said, everyone remembers where they were on September 11th very vividly.
	Where were you on January 6th?
	You know why you don't remember?
	Because it wasn't a big deal.
	Harris Lamb for comparing Capitol Riot to 9-11 and Pearl Harbor.
	Well, we should be at war then.
	Pearl Harbor got us into the war.
	Let's start a war.
	Let's start a war.
	There's too many of us.
	There's too many of us.
	That's too many.
	Including dates that instantly remind all who have lived through them where they were and what they were doing.
	No one remembers Kamala.
	When our democracy came under assault.
	Dates that occupy not only a place on our calendars, but a place in our collection.
	Shut up.
	I don't want to hear her.
	It's the only time I see her not laughing like a hyena, by the way.
	She also said, go to the next link.
	She said that America is the oldest democracy in the world.
	Did you know that?
	I knew not that.
	America's older than ancient Greece.
	Yeah, democracy, that American word.
	Yeah.
	We're the first country ever.
	Did you know that?
	It doesn't literally sound Greek.
	Did you know that there was no other countries before 1776?
	No idea.
	First America, the world's first country.
	It's actually pretty based.
	The oldest democracy.
	Wow.
	The one and only.
	And the way that people are treating this thing, this event, is just insane.
	It was a meandering.
	And the way they talk about the Capitol.
	Ooh, it was the Capitol.
	I want to make something very clear.
	This is my personal opinion.
	Fuck the White House.
	I have no respect for any politicians.
	I don't see that Senate wing as sacred.
	Like when I saw that guy laughing, carrying the podium, I thought, that's funny, because that podium's a useless piece of shit.
	And I like that he's trivializing it.
	You're not special.
	Politics is Hollywood for ugly people, okay?
	There's two types of Americans, people who want to be left alone and people who won't leave them the fuck alone.
	You're in this group, politicians and leftists and people who support the government.
	We're in this group.
	Fuck the government.
	Burn it down.
	Speaking of burning it down, we take a moment to talk about our sponsor, Tactical Walls, Tactical Tim, American-owned, vet-run business.
	This guy started, he was into industrial design.
	He started playing around with plastics.
	He got access to one of those, not a 3D printer, but one of those big, super expensive sculpting machines that they have.
	And he built a business out of it.
	Now he has not just these tactical walls at tacticalwalls.com, right?
	Yes.
	Where you get 15% off for using the promo code Gavin?
	Gavin.
	Yes.
	Are you sure?
	Almost certain.
	He has a bunch of them because we kept screwing up.
	Gavin 15, then, but it's like 20% off?
	Yes, yes, yes.
	So Gavin 15 or Gavin, they all work.
	And this is a great place to mount your guns, but he also makes tons of other stuff.
	We use it here at the office, and he has all these great places to hide your gun.
	My favorite, of course, being the tissue box that he calls the issue box.
	He started his business by embedding large standing mirrors, like the tall mirrors you look at to see how hot your outfit is, your fit.
	He was making those where you open them up and then all your guns, your long guns, your rifles, and shotguns are all in there.
	So you just open up the window.
	No?
	What are you doing, Ryan?
	We're doing a commercial right now.
	There we go.
	And then it grew from there.
	And now he runs the company, makes it here in America.
	TacticalWalls.com.
	Promo code Gavin15.
	Show some of his other stuff.
	The V-Mod.
	What's this now?
	For your truck.
	Oh.
	I've seen people send pictures of they got this thing.
	Easy to install.
	Awesome to have.
	Hunting, fucking construction.
	He's a weird little genius, that guy.
	Yes.
	Hell of a blabber mouth, too.
	Okay, back to the show.
	Again, this first half hour of the show is free.
	We put it up as a podcast, and then we go behind the paywall.
	And only subscribers to censored.tv can enjoy it.
	I hope we get some interviews in before we cut you off.
	But it's the cost of about two beers a month.
	Two beers a month.
	I don't think I've had a day where I haven't had at least two beers.
	I don't drink during Lent, but beer isn't drinking, right?
	I don't drink alcohol, like whiskey, during Lent.
	But beers.
	I don't think I could get drunk from beer.
	You know, that's a good point because when somebody's like in a rap song, they say good weed and alcohol, nobody thinks beer.
	If you said, if you had, if you were doing a music video and you're like, good weed and you put up weed and then you put up beer when they said alcohol, you'd be like, I think it would take.
	What are you doing?
	Like I wouldn't be able to fit the number of beers it would take to get drunk into my body.
	I would just become like, what's his name?
	Bad, Michael Jackson, fat, weirdo Yankovic in that fat video.
	Anyway, we're all enjoying the left overstating how terrible that day was.
	And Ann Coulter had a great tweet where she talks about this year, the first anniversary of January 6th, you give a gift that's paper-based.
	Next year, it's fiber-based.
	Okay, that'll be the second anniversary.
	And then the third anniversary, your gift should involve leather.
	I think the year after that is diamonds.
	I'm not sure.
	And the strange part about all this is everyone is completely ignoring not just the left burning down America and destroying police buildings and costing, I believe, $3 billion worth of damage.
	Every major city in the entire country has had a riot.
	Every state has had a statue torn down.
	Totally ignored all that.
	Well, and the argument I get from the left is, well, that's because that was for civil rights.
	This was an attack on our democracy.
	This was a dumb brawl, a riot that broke out because people were pissed off, not just about the election, but about the media and the way that they have been portrayed.
	That's all it was.
	And I don't blame them one bit.
	I don't think they should have done it, but I under...
	I'm not saying they should have done it, but I understand.
	Like, say you get kicked out of a bar for no reason, and on your way out, you say, fuck this place, and you knock over a bunch of pints and they smash on the ground.
	I totally get that, dude, doing that.
	You shouldn't smash pints on the ground, but I get that you lost your temper.
	It should be forgotten.
	But yeah, go to my getter.
	I was talking about this the other day.
	Remember when Democrat protesters stormed the U.S. Capitol in 2018, took over the U.S. Senate building, tried to get into the U.S. Supreme Court during the Kavanaugh confirmations?
	We've seen this happen a million times from the left, and it's always worse.
	Remember it was at Georgia that woman was screaming at the cop at the Senate House.
	I think I'm wrong about Senate House, some political building over there.
	I think they did it at Madison, too.
	And then the DA, Merrick Garland, said, no, no, no.
	The thing about Antifa, that's okay.
	They do it at night.
	So they're not interrupting all the magical, important stuff we do all day.
	They're just like breaking an empty building.
	No, they do it in the day.
	They do it in the day, Merrick.
	What kind of name is Merrick?
	Stupid one.
	Take the best, you take the A's out of America and you make that your first name?
	Fuck you.
	The A's are the best part about the word America.
	Merrick.
	He looks like that dude who's always fucking with smurfs, Gargamel.
	Oh, yeah.
	He's got garg vibes.
	He does have another terrible name.
	Gargamel.
	So, yeah, go back to, so that's that, when they did that, the Democrat legislators and the MSM cheered it on.
	If it wasn't for double standards, liberals would have no standards at all.
	And then there was the Black Panthers did it, right?
	Can you imagine how many white liberals started masturbating when they saw this?
	If it was BLM that did this, Jan 6 wouldn't exist.
	There'd be no one in jail.
	In fact, I think that was, yeah, that was one of the things here on my list.
	Yeah, go all the way down, Ryan.
	I forgot to number these, but it's U.S. Capitol riot, 725 arrests, one case dropped.
	And then BLM Antifa terrorist attacks, 16,241 arrests.
	Almost all the cases dropped.
	That's called Clown World.
	That's what's great about James O'Keefe's new book, American Muckraker.
	We just did a commercial for his party coming up.
	He's having a book party in Miami on January 29th, and you can go check that out at Project VeritasExperience.com.
	That's true.
	We're going to have James in the studio tonight.
	Well, then I won't be doing this very much longer.
	Okay.
	Because I'm what they call a pussy.
	And he is huge.
	Speaking of media, go back to the top there.
	There's so much fake news around January 6th.
	And I thought this Chris Hayes saying this was a perfect example.
	I just want to say something and make it crystal clear.
	I fucking hate Chris Hayes.
	And I saw him at the train station once, and I was in a rush.
	And every time I think of him, I'm so mad at myself for not going up to him and giving him a face full of verbal, as they say in England.
	Fuck.
	I almost regret it as much as not barfing at the camera when we were talking to Gazzi Kodzo, and I barfed off frame.
	I should have just gone, brah!
	That would have looked so cool.
	Yeah.
	Because it was projectile.
	They might have even made it to the camera.
	That would have been bad.
	That would have been awesome.
	I'd buy a new camera.
	Fuck it.
	Imagine there was a clip of me going, brah!
	That would be such a great gift.
	That would be in the intro.
	That would be fucking, yeah.
	Regrets.
	I've had a few.
	Capitol rioter, Ethan Nordine, aka Rufio Pan Man, still rotting away in prison, is in jail, still pending a hearing.
	He suddenly came up with almost a million dollars to offer his bail money.
	Now, his parents X'd him and fired him from their restaurant.
	And his marriage fell apart because Antifa docks the venue.
	And since then, he's gotten married and he got back in good with his family.
	Thank God, because they were able to raise the bail money.
	It was $980K.
	You know how they raised that money?
	They put up their house and their restaurant, and then the entire family emptied their bank accounts.
	Yes, middle-class people, when they accrue everything, they are able to get a million dollars.
	Then they're broke.
	That's everything his entire family owns.
	You fucking asshole.
	What, you think some, you're the one with the Soros guys throwing money around.
	You're the side where lawyers magically appear every time Antifa throws a Molotov cocktail.
	We're the ones who can't even fucking fundraise.
	And that's something we're going to be talking a lot about tonight is fundraising.
	I was talking to this girl, Molly the Stallion, Stallion Molly on Twitter, and she's a big Jan 6 activist.
	She couldn't come on tonight because she's sick.
	But she's telling me all this stuff about PACs, like these project groups stealing money that is being raised.
	She alleges that this woman, Catherine Hughes, who runs Patriot Something, maybe look her up.
	She alleges that this woman said to her, you know, if I can make a million bucks from this, I'll never have to work again.
	Catherine Hughes, that's the word on the street.
	You heard it here first, folks.
	I cannot confirm or deny these allegations, but that's what I heard.
	So the moral of that story is we need money.
	And the best way to donate money is to go to the individuals give, send, go.
	Do not, as far as I'm concerned, I got to tread lightly here for legal reasons, but my personal belief is one should not donate to these big groups just because you saw them on Steve Bennon's war room.
	No, give, send, go.
	We raised $10,000 for Zenoa Kinsman.
	I talk to Zenoa all the time.
	She got all the money.
	So they're reliable.
	But I was told not to trust Catherine Hughes.
	I couldn't find much Catherine Hughes stuff.
	No, it's Stallion Molly.
	Molly the Stallion.
	How did you get Molly Stallion from that?
	So her at name is Stallion Molly.
	So she's a good follow.
	Got her.
	Her cousin, that's her.
	What a fucking smoke show.
	Her cousin is on trial.
	He's in jail right now, and he's been rotting away.
	I think they managed to raise like 16 grand, which is nothing.
	Dude, we'll have James O'Keefe on.
	Wait till he tells you the millions of dollars he's had to spend fighting for truth.
	On the phone, Cynthia Hughes said to me, oh, there we go.
	Oh, good.
	So I don't have to cover my ass.
	It's out there.
	Okay.
	Joe Biden also was all over this today, talking about how horrific it was and crying.
	And Trump just goes, this is political theater.
	You're trying to hide your own incompetence by focusing on Jan 6.
	The weird thing, though, about this is, and Molly was saying this, Trump has been accused of milking this and telling them not to settle because it's good for him.
	That's the weird thing about the insurrection, the meandering.
	The left thinks it makes the right look bad, but a lot of Republicans like it because it gins up the base.
	So a lot of Trump people are saying, don't settle.
	We want you to rot in jail and not take a plea, which I support, by the way.
	So I'm giving strange signals here.
	Molly's contention is these guys should be able to take a plea.
	They shouldn't be in there.
	They're rotting because it makes Trump look better.
	I kind of like people fighting to the end and not taking a plea when they're guilty.
	I mean, when they're innocent.
	Like the gangster book I'm reading, I'm Not a Gangster, by what's his name?
	Collins, Bobby Collins.
	His whole life was fucked up because the cops planted a razor on him.
	This is in like the 60s, and he said he pled guilty just to get it done with, and that gave him a criminal record.
	He was unhireable, and it set him on the path for a life of crime.
	So I'm not sure I agree with her that people should be taking pleas.
	Anyway, This was a good tweet that shows that you could just forward to people, proving it was a meandering.
	I didn't realize this, actually, that Trump knew that it would be a problem.
	Go to that last picture.
	Trump has confirmed reports he requested 10,000 National Guard troops ahead of the January 6th rally in Washington, D.C., only to be rebuffed by the authorities.
	And we'll talk to a documentary filmmaker, Nick Quested, who was there that day.
	And he said, I walked by the Capitol steps at about 11 a.m. and there was one cop there.
	I mean, there's more cops at the South Bronx train station than there are protecting the White House or the Capitol, sorry?
	Seems kind of weird, don't it?
	I got to be honest, after doing all these interviews, talking to all these people, I'm still very confused by that day and who was involved.
	Is that him?
	Is it quested?
	It is.
	Yep.
	For example, speaking of the confusion, look at this shit.
	Elite commandos were hired to protect pence, and they had shoot-to-kill authority.
	Shoot-to-kill?
	Like that.
	For the record, there was two deaths that day.
	Not five.
	No cops were killed.
	That's all a lie.
	Sicknick died of natural causes days later.
	No evidence that it was linked to anything at the meandering.
	Both women, both patriots.
	Ashley Babbitt was shot in the neck and died of her injuries.
	And then there was Rosalind Beattie, was her name?
	She was beaten and trampled to death by cops, Capitol police.
	And we're getting, there's 14,000 hours of video.
	And it's slowly leaking.
	And we're slowly seeing that the cops were not the angels they purport to be.
	Although the left is still sticking to that.
	It's so weird seeing the left support cops, too.
	They focus on the black ones.
	Like this guy.
	I've noticed the lefties, they like to talk about this dude because he's shown like this, like, get back, get back to the mob, saving our institution.
	They love democracy when it's Biden.
	Meanwhile, when Trump was in office, they wanted the whole fucking, all of D.C. to blow up.
	Yeah, Eugene Goodman.
	He's alive, by the way.
	I don't know why we're remembering him, but you'll see a lot of liberals will have him as their screensaver or their banner atop their Twitter account.
	What a hero.
	By the way, look at our guys.
	Don't shoot, don't shoot.
	Hands up, don't shoot.
	Of course, there's this clown who killed Ashley Babbitt, who is a hero.
	Talk about black privilege.
	You shoot a woman.
	There she is dying.
	And we walk through wherever the hell they are and talk about how wonderful you are.
	I saved countless lives by murdering a woman.
	No charges.
	No nothing.
	And we've since heard that Michael Bird was another affirmative action hire, totally incompetent, regularly left his gun in the bathroom after he'd take a shit.
	He's an imbecile and a hero.
	She was unarmed.
	She didn't have like mantis claws or anything on.
	Yeah, what lives did you save?
	You know, there's this really crazy conspiracy that I'm kind of down with.
	Yeah, well, you're the guy who believes in flat earth and no dinosaurs, so I'm not surprised.
	It's interesting.
	You're going to watch in your own time.
	So what are they saying?
	That Ashley Babbitt was an actor?
	That there's just so many things wrong with it, the way that people are positioned, the weird things that people do.
	First, they're friends with people, and then they're like enemies out of nowhere.
	There's no doubt that there was some Antifa there, and there was some feds egging it on.
	But most sane people agree that normal moms and dad boomers stormed the Capitol because they were pissed off, and that was a mistake.
	As we'll talk to Dan Hall, yes, Antifa could have been ginning them up, but they were ginning.
	You know, they were ready to rock.
	Anyway, we're not going to get into conspiracy theories.
	It's very scrupulous and interesting.
	Okay, we've covered all that.
	And then, yeah, the last link there is that Roseanne Boyland.
	Because we see footage now, and Molly the Stallion was showing it of it looks like they're attacking cops.
	When you zoom in, you see they're trying to protect people.
	The cops were beating the living shit out of the Patriots.
	Watch this.
	The pressing question here is whether the Capitol Police and the government agents killed a second female Trump supporter while putting out the lie that she died from a drug overdose.
	Roseanne Boyland.
	In the three hours of security camera footage from the tunnel, shortly before her death, she's approximately the same location.
	Her motionless body will be seen in about 10 minutes later in body cam footage.
	Yeah, that black guy was with her.
	He saw the whole thing.
	Yeah, Phil.
	Phil Onius.
	He's the guy who got his teeth punched out.
	He's done a lot of really good stuff.
	Then he's wiped from the internet at some point.
	And hadn't seen anything from him since that interview about this.
	Really?
	Amazing.
	Great guy.
	Okay, let's start the interviews.
	We've got one, two, three, four, five, six.
	First interview, documentary filmmaker Nick Quested, who was there?
	He knows the truth.
	Nick, are you there, sir?
	I am there.
	You have a nuclear war going on behind you.
	I know, maybe I'll.
	Look, I look educated because I've got books behind me.
	So most people don't know that you were following the Proud Boys around at various rallies for months and months before January 6th, and you were at January 6th.
	I was indeed.
	Now, I mean, I need to sit down with you for four hours and get the whole story.
	Your research with Proud Boys was excellent.
	I also want to talk to you about the work you're doing at the board, but we have limited time here on the January 6th special.
	So I just want to focus on one instance as a little microcosm of the whole picture.
	I'm reading in the New York Times, I think it was Alan Froyer, who I'm not a fan of.
	And the story is that this proud boy went up to Joe and Joe said, look, man, here's a gun.
	Go attack those cops and we're going to storm the Capitol.
	And the guy was like, okay, I got it.
	And he ran off.
	Right?
	Is that what they're saying?
	Yeah, that's what, I mean, that's what the guy's name is Ryan Sempsell.
	Yep.
	And I'll send you the picture of him putting his arms around Biggs.
	But I don't.
	That's what Sempsell said.
	But I think Foy actually refuted it and agreed that Biggs had no gun.
	And I was there.
	I was maybe five yards away from them.
	And I only saw Sempsell put his arms around Biggs.
	And there was definitely no weapon involved at that point.
	At all.
	I never seen anything to do with any weapons at all from any Proud Boys that day.
	I like to separate the narrative and the myth.
	So what exactly is the myth?
	Why would Biggs pull out a gun like saying we're about to start shooting people?
	Well, that's why it doesn't make any sense because I think it was Sempsell trying to create some type of plausibility that he wasn't part of instigating the first push on the fences at the western entrance.
	Is he making up stuff to get a police so they'll let him go?
	I think he was trying to do anything he could, and I think that was very desperate.
	Because he's not really a proud boy.
	I was told he's kind of a hanger on who's hoping to get in.
	I had never seen him before with any relationship to any proud before.
	It's the first time I saw him, and he's a very noticeable dude.
	So you're more of an authority on their rallying than I am because you were there.
	What's your big picture takeaway?
	Because the narrative is that they went there.
	They're being charged potentially with conspiracy.
	And the charge could be that they went there to overthrow the government.
	You broke up a second, but did they go there to overthrow the government?
	I was not aware of any plan for them to overthrow the government.
	I think, I'm not a proud boy.
	I'm just a journalist.
	And it seemed to me that the Proud Boys went there to confront Antifa and to demonstrate in front of the Capitol.
	And then I don't know.
	And then the fences come down and the rioters ran forward.
	Did the Proud Boys' presence there contribute towards the animus of the crowd?
	I can't say, but they were definitely there at the front, though.
	Yeah.
	So it sounds like they, from your take, they contributed to the chaos, but it was all spontaneous.
	I think that they were definitely there, and they were loud, but there was, I had not seen any aggression.
	But I have to say that one thing, there was definitely a different feeling on January 6th than there had been at other rallies.
	From Proud Boys.
	From Proud Boys.
	They felt much more serious.
	And there was a group of Proud Boys there that I hadn't seen before at other rallies with the orange hats on who are allegedly from Arizona.
	Yes, yeah, that's what I heard too.
	Now, you were filming all this.
	You're in the fray.
	And our government is so inept.
	They have trouble differentiating between old ladies, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and journalists.
	Did you get in any shit for being there?
	Yeah, I was put on the no-fly list.
	I still have had my trusted traveler and global entry revoked, and I've been interviewed by various authorities.
	So law enforcement has been to your house?
	Yes.
	And have they confiscated any of your footage?
	Because you've got some of the best footage around.
	They didn't confiscate any footage.
	They subpoenaed me.
	I see.
	Because you're doing a documentary about what is it about the Proud Boys or Jan 6 or just the Trump?
	Well, we started making a film about the dissatisfaction with the government and the rhetoric from all parts, like from both sides, from Antifa and from various militias,
	whether it be the Proud Boys, who I don't think are a militia, but whatever.
	And it distilled into a film about from November the 3rd to January the 6th and the language and events that led to what happened on the steps of the Capitol.
	Oh, interesting.
	Yeah, because that's why I said not to go.
	Because November, they were stabbed, and the media's takeaway was, they'll probably show up, at least for stabbing.
	December, they were stabbed, and the media's takeaway was, they show up, at least with stabbing.
	Don't go January.
	Stabbing is a best case scenario at this point.
	I also had heard that the government was going to give out their concealed carry permits to people that they didn't normally allow as far as tourism goes.
	And I thought, they're only going to give it to the lefties.
	You're going to get shot.
	And again, the media will take away, probably show up at a thing, and someone gets shot.
	Yeah, you have to think about why there was no counter protest and how that was managed as well.
	Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because above and beyond that, which was very unusual, you have this sort of seminal shot, this seminal scene where it's early in the morning.
	I think it's, is it Biggs and Nordine or something?
	And they're walking by the state capitol and there's one cop there.
	Yeah.
	I mean, that really is the errant thread that unravels the whole sweater.
	Yeah, at 11.52, I walked past the Capitol with at the front of the Powboys.
	In the shot was Zach, Nordine, and Biggs.
	And in the background, there is just one police officer, which is fascinating because if you know 30,000 people are going to turn up to a football match, would you only have one policeman there?
	You only have one policeman if the kid has a lemonade stand in the suburbs.
	I mean, right now, I guarantee you, there's at least 12 on the steps.
	Right?
	I think it's the minimum.
	So, I mean, that's a, you know, I'd love to know what the select committee finds out about the chain of command and how the staffing was organized that day.
	So let's just play hypothetical here and say, what is the worst case scenario with that one cop?
	Is the scenario, let's understaff law enforcement to inadvertently egg on an insurrection or some sort of riot?
	I mean, the worst case scenario is that there was a person in authority reduced the staffing in order to create an opportunity for a crowd to enter the Capitol.
	And that would be on Trump, would it not?
	I don't know who would be responsible for the levels of policing.
	I mean, ultimately, ultimately, it depends where you assess responsibility.
	But, you know, that seems to be a very tactical decision rather than a strategic decision to me.
	So the plot thickens.
	All right.
	Well, we're out of time.
	Last question is, what does your gut say is going to happen to them?
	Let's focus on Zach.
	Biggs and Zach?
	Zach, Nordine, and Biggs.
	I don't know.
	The fact that they've been held without bail for so long obviously implies that the U.S. attorney is unsatisfied with their level of cooperation.
	I think what happens to them depends on how much help they were going to give the federal government in trying to create a relationship between the organizers of Jan 6, the executive branch, and politicians such as Grossar and Meadows.
	That's really where the link is.
	How did this mutate from rhetoric into riot?
	Well, I don't think there's any evidence there.
	If they're trying to frame them into saying something bad and throwing people under the bus, there's no one to throw under any bus.
	There was no conspiracy.
	And taking that to court and proving that they had planned this weeks in advance is impossible because they didn't.
	So my gut says time served for trespassing and vandalism.
	But, you know, conspiracy is a very low bar.
	To prove conspiracy, you don't need to necessarily prove conspiracy to you.
	You need to, their actions of provoking a confrontation or looking for a confrontation could be enough to warrant a conspiracy conviction.
	Okay, well, that is a good, because that's not what I heard, but that's a good question for our next guest who's a lawyer and is representing them.
	Nick, let's get more intimate.
	And I do not mean that in a gay way, in any way, but let's have a sit-down and do a long talk about this because I feel we've barely scratched the surface.
	Okay.
	All right, cheers.
	Cheers.
	Nita Fashions.
	That's our second sponsor for this show before we go behind the paywall and do five more interviews.
	Nita Fashions.
	I'm usually wearing a suit.
	I know I look fantastic.
	Thank you very much.
	I appreciate that.
	You're too kind.
	And 100%, well, okay, slow down.
	Sometimes I'm wearing Ted Baker.
	Sometimes I'm wearing vintage suits I got in the 50s.
	But 90% of the time I'm wearing Nita Fashions.
	You go there to the site, contact them.
	Our viewers seem most comfortable contacting them direct message on their Instagram account for whatever reason.
	And they measure you up.
	It takes a long time.
	You know, you do it virtually.
	They'll come to your city eventually, but let's get this, let's get your suits cooking now.
	They measure your neck.
	They measure everything.
	And the next thing you know, you get a suit from Hong Kong that feels like pajamas.
	I cannot recommend tailored suits enough.
	It's ironic because the stuff I wear on my downtime, the wax old vintage leather, sorry, denim pants and these red wings.
	I'm less comfortable in my leisure wear than I am in my suits.
	Absolutely.
	My suits feel like I could go to bed in them.
	They fit perfectly.
	And if you want to look like an asshole, don't have your top button done up.
	Every time I see someone on TV and their neck is too fat for their top button, I think you're a fucking amateur.
	You're doing your first job interview after your paper root.
	You have to have your top button.
	And there's nothing worse than having your top button done up and you're constraining your neck.
	You feel like you're being strangled all day.
	That's even worse.
	So when you have a tailored shirt, you have the top button done up, you have your tie on, and you can fit a finger in there and you feel like a normal human being.
	If you I would argue, this is a very controversial statement, but I'm just going to say it.
	I would argue that not being able to do up your top button looks as bad as flip-flops.
	And if I see someone in flip-flops or I see a guy doesn't have his top button, I can't hang out with him.
	I'm racist towards that person.
	I have bigotry towards that person.
	I don't care what color your skin is, but if you wear flip-flops and you can't do your top button, you're you you deserve to be killed.
	You should be tortured slowly to death with tiny little cuts from tailor scissors and hang with bad fabric.
	Hanged!
	Hanged, people are hanged, things are hungry.
	Hanged with a polyester rope.
	So thank you, Native Fashions, for supporting free speech.
	And thank you for my love.
	You've been there since they wanted to make me look fantastic.
	But today we're wearing Proud Boys regalia as an homage to our brothers behind bars.
	Speaking of Proud Boys and men in prison, let's talk to one of the top lawyers for the meandering, Mr. John Pierce.
	John, are you there, sir?
	Yes, I am.
	Hi, Gavin.
	How are you?
	I'm good.
	Now, we had you on the show a while ago talking about Kyle Rittenhouse, who you represented at the beginning of that whole kerfuffle.
	Now you're representing Proud Boys for the January 16th.
	Who specifically are you representing?
	In terms of Proud Boys, so we have Paul Ray from Florida.
	We have Nathan Tuck from Florida.
	We have Will Pepe from the New York area.
	And I think we have one or two others, and they're escaping me right now.
	Oh, we have Anthony Sargent in Florida.
	And that may be, I think I said when I was on the show, you know, four or five.
	I think we're at.
	And you're not representing anyone else for the Gen 6 stuff.
	Say it one more time.
	That's it for you representing Gen 6 people.
	In terms of Proud Boys, I mean, we have, you know, we probably have a total of 23 or 24.
	You know, but in terms of Proud Boys, we have...
	Oh, I'm sorry.
	So you have 24 other people that you're representing from the insurrection?
	A total of approximately 23 or 24, including the Proud Boys, yes.
	And are they all basically facing the same kind of problem, which is, were you just there riding or did you conspire?
	You know, so, I mean, everybody's facing different sets of charges.
	You know, it does appear, you know, based on public information that the government is interested in the groups such as the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters with respect to some sort of alleged conspiracy,
	which they'll have to try to trial.
	And I'm not sure they'll be able to do that.
	But that is still actually, and again, this is based on public records.
	I mean, it's actually kind of evolving in all these cases as we speak.
	As you may know, because I'm sure you follow these things pretty closely, there are often superseding indictments that come through, multiple superseding indictments in the course of a case, even as they get close to trial.
	And so, you know, and also the government is certainly continuing their investigation.
	And, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to tack on additional conspiracy charges to folks who don't have them yet.
	But it's all different in every case.
	Now, the rumor, the word on the street is that conspiracy has a low bar.
	But my understanding is it has a high bar.
	Like, if you look up all the Prowboys' chats, you see them going, yeah, ma'am, fuck shit up.
	Fuck those guys.
	And it reads like two teams headed to the Super Bowl.
	It's not like, we will meet at 4 p.m.
	And then you flank it over the side and then we'll have the phalanx go up the center at 5 and then you meet me.
	There's none of that.
	And isn't that what you need to prove conspiracy?
	Yeah, so I mean, there's a couple of things to unpack.
	I mean, obviously a conspiracy charge is a serious charge, which carries with it serious potential penalties.
	And so the bar that the government has to meet, I think, in actuality is fairly high.
	I mean, you can't just use sort of metaphorical kind of talk that you might hear at a bar that kind of seems like it may be drifting into that territory.
	I mean, there has to be, essentially, under the law, there has to be an agreement to do something illegal and an overt act that's step that's taken in that direction.
	But it has to be actually relevant to the crime that's being charged.
	We're going to fuck shit up is not conspiracy.
	That's just shit talk.
	Let's meet by the Greek column on the third step at 4 p.m. and then we can go through the blah, blah, blah doors.
	That's conspiracy.
	Those two seem very different to me.
	Yeah, no, I mean, they are very different.
	And, you know, as you know, and as we've talked about before, and as will probably always be a frustration for you with me, you know, I can't talk about specific cases and how that will play out.
	I mean, judges and juries will have to make that decision.
	Yeah, I mean, obviously, those are different things.
	Those are different scenarios.
	If prosecutors choose to try to bring conspiracy charges based on the type of thing that you were mentioning in the first example, I suspect they will have real challenges.
	That's obviously up to their discretion as to what they think they can prove and what they want to try to prove.
	But your point is absolutely correct, in my view.
	So what does your gut say is going to happen?
	Say that one more time.
	What does your gut say is going to happen to them?
	My gut says vandalism, trespassing, rioting, whatever, a year, two years, probation, we're done.
	Yeah, I mean, you know, again, that's a type of thing I really shouldn't get in predicting because that's going to force me to kind of give my views of the merits of the case.
	I mean, I will say that, again, I will say that based on the public record, like any other American who's viewing this, the evidence of quote-unquote conspiracy to overthrow the government,
	candidly in the public record so far seems a bit sparse.
	But again, I mean, that's going to be up to the prosecutors to see what kind of evidence they can bring forth, and then the judges and juries will decide that on their own.
	Well, it's a tough fight because you guys are working for a year.
	You're getting no money, little money, a fraction of what you would normally get.
	And then the prosecution has this unlimited bank account, unlimited resources.
	I mean, it's the little engine that could up against an entire fleet of fighter jets.
	Yeah, you know, sometimes it does feel, if I can use an analogy to make myself seem a little bit cool here, you know, it does seem a little bit like being Jerry Butler in the movie 300 holding the hot gates of Thermopylae against the million-man Persian army.
	There's no question about that.
	And, you know, and if I can take the opportunity on your show here to, again, you know, ask all your viewers to go to nclu.com and do whatever they can to, you know, to donate, that will be extremely helpful.
	You know, also, everybody should go to the gives and go pages of these individuals and help them directly.
	You know, as far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier in terms of resources that can be gotten to all of these defendants, not just mine, in order to make sure they get a fair trial.
	But you're absolutely right.
	I mean, this is why it's tough for defendants in the federal criminal justice system.
	You are up against an opponent that literally has unlimited resources because they have our tax dollars.
	Now, you also represent the Buffalo Shaman, who you tell me is a surprisingly intelligent dude, not a nut.
	He got four years.
	I'm just talking out my ass here, but that seems like that an appeal will bring that down.
	That seems to me like the heaviest one because the strangest thing about this whole case is it seems entirely based on optics and not evidence.
	And he was obviously the most optical.
	He had big horns.
	Every time they talk about it, they use that as a picture.
	I think behind me I have a picture of him.
	Yeah, he's right there.
	So even I am using him to represent January 5th.
	We're talking about our client, Jake Chansley, right?
	Yes, yes.
	And I guess what I'm asking is, it's hard to determine this and give a professional opinion about it because it seems to be such a bizarre case.
	It's so uniquely about optics and Proud Boys.
	Proud Boys are getting it worse than everyone because of Proud Boys.
	Not because of what they did, but because of it's almost like the media is driving this case.
	Oh, yeah.
	No, there's no question that, you know, to a large extent, you know, I mean, the media is a huge part of this.
	And it's one of these narrative, you know, the insurrection narrative, as we talked about when I was with you there a few weeks ago.
	I mean, the insurrection narrative is just completely false.
	I mean, there are just no charges for insurrection.
	I mean, that's a federal crime.
	And so, you know, that's a narrative that's false.
	Wait, let me interrupt you.
	Sorry.
	So how many people are on trial for this whole thing, total?
	So there have been, I believe, approximately 700 defendants that have been charged.
	Okay.
	I think there's probably...
	700 defendants.
	Not one of them, not one of those charges included insurrection.
	That's correct.
	There are no charges for insurrection.
	There are no charges for sedition.
	There are no charges for treason.
	And so you can, in my view, given how aggressive the federal government has been with respect to this whole situation, if there were the basis remotely for those kind of charges,
	I would expect that you would see them.
	So for example, in my mind, every time any one of these defendants is called an insurrectionist, I think that's just blatantly false and defamatory.
	And there can be legal action based on that for sure.
	And like we said when we talked before, again, because the left has control of these media sort of outlets, they go with these narratives.
	And then when they fall apart three months later, there's no reckoning.
	They just kind of shrug their shoulders and they move on to the next false narrative.
	And so that's one of the big problems in the country right now.
	It's one of the big problems with big tech.
	It's one of the reasons that folks like you and platforms like you have, folks like Tim Pool or Take Your Choice, Joe Rogan are becoming more and more relevant than CNN and MSNBC and NBC combined because at least people are getting the truth.
	I mean, let's take you, for example.
	I mean, you don't hide who you are.
	You don't hide what your views are.
	And you speak what you view to be the truth, but viewers have the ability to understand what your point of view might have coming along with it.
	These propaganda networks like CNN, MSNBC, and all the major mainstream media outlets, they try to pretend that they're straight news without any sort of political viewpoint.
	And it's just wrong.
	The American people can't get any form of the truth from those outlets.
	Well, they say that the distrust in the American media is at the highest it's ever been.
	I think it's like 64% or something.
	It's really high.
	Last question before we go, John.
	What's the next step?
	What's your next action coming up?
	When's a trial?
	Sure.
	So trials are gradually beginning to be set.
	I believe there's a trial in one of the Oath Keepers cases with Judge Maida in April.
	The first case that we have set for trial as of right now is August 29th.
	That's an individual who's not triboy, but is in a co-defendant case, along with some folks who are actually detained.
	So what you're going to see is all of the trials that involve defendants who are detained, those will happen first.
	They can include some co-defendants who are not detained, but they have to try those cases first because these folks are sitting, you know, they're sitting in jail.
	Are all the Proud Boys in the shoe?
	What's that?
	Are all Proud Boys in the shoe?
	Are they in solitary?
	Well, no.
	Let me just think out loud here.
	Biggs is.
	The Proud Boys that I have are all actually out.
	They're on pre-trial release.
	I don't know how many of them are actually imprisoned.
	I know Ethan Nordine, Joe Biggs.
	I don't know about Zach.
	Yeah, I mean, you know, Ethan Nordine and Biggs are the ones that pop to my mind as the ones I know that are detained.
	But yeah, I'm not sure.
	I'm sure I think there's a handful, but the ones that I've the four that I mentioned at the beginning here, and I'm sure I might be missing one or two, but they are all on free trial.
	Well, Dan Hall represents them.
	We're going to talk to him next.
	He wants to meet you.
	Could you guys be friends?
	What's that?
	Dan Hall wants to meet you.
	We're interviewing him next.
	He represents Nordine and Nordine.
	Yeah, no.
	Yeah.
	No, I mean, we should definitely be in touch, for sure.
	What about best friends?
	Is that an option?
	I don't know.
	I'm throwing it up.
	I need all the friends I can get these days.
	Okay.
	So you're saying there's an option.
	You could become best friends with Dan.
	As long as he's okay with a CIA operative being his best friend, then I guess.
	All right, John.
	Great to talk to you, man.
	Keep us up to date.
	Thanks a lot, Gavin.
	Good talking.
	Okay.
	Jesse, are you there, sir?
	I am, Gavin.
	What's with your look?
	I know, right?
	You look like a drawing of a hippie from the 60s that a Korean did who's never been to America.
	Yeah, I'm trying a new thing.
	It's called being gay.
	Well, you nailed it.
	Thank you.
	So you're there at the insurrection.
	You're a year late.
	We're at Jan 6 Part 2.
	I'm actually outside of the White House.
	I got a dead-on look at the White House and the Washington Monument here.
	And I'm in a pedicab with my friend Alex here.
	And Alex has given you a ride before from the Capitol.
	Well, he is taking you for a ride figuratively and literally because I've never been on a pedicab.
	Now, Alex, Gavin says you're a goddamn liar.
	Nah.
	Why did you peddy cab me, dude?
	So you were at Harry's bar, and there was a bunch of Proud Boys hanging out there, and they all hopped on scooters and took a ride around the park.
	That sounds about right.
	I think it was you and another guy who had the Proud Boys flag.
	Hmm.
	That sounds like it might be true.
	I'll have to talk to my attorney, Mr. Booze, about that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	So what's it like there, guys?
	Is anyone there?
	Like suit jacket, I think.
	Yeah, yeah, okay.
	I'm right.
	I mean, you're wrong.
	I mean, I'm wrong.
	You're right.
	What's it like there, boys?
	Is anyone there?
	Well, we were just at the Capitol.
	I was live on YouTube.
	And it is more of a meandering than usual.
	But there's very few people.
	There's almost nobody.
	They've got it roped off.
	Not the velvet ropes to let you in at any point.
	So why did you travel four hours to DC?
	I'm doing, listen, I believe, and this is me personally, I believe that Jan 6 is the worst terrorist attack to ever take place on American soil.
	It's Pearl Harbor, the Civil War, and 9-11 combined.
	So I had to ask people, because of that, you mentioned 9-11.
	I had to ask people.
	Thank you for turning.
	Alex is turning me around so you can see the White House behind me.
	So I had to ask people, which is worse, 9-11 or Jan 6.
	So I've been out about asking everybody, which would you take back, 9-11 or Jan 6?
	You could go back in time.
	You can only fix one, undo it from the past.
	And what did they say?
	Honestly, and I was shocked by this.
	And I almost barked.
	I almost mute.
	Most people said 9-11.
	They would take back 9-11.
	Yeah.
	There was, see that Asian guy there?
	He didn't even want to answer for some reason.
	I saw a group of children.
	They were there and they were plotting a brand new insurrection.
	Okay, so you came up with a crazy question where everyone, the answer is, obviously, 9-11 was worse.
	You asked everyone, and they all said 9-11 was worse.
	So your whole trip was a complete waste of time.
	To be fair, this was Ryan's idea.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Well, thanks for coming on and thanks for going over there.
	That was great.
	Hey, man.
	Thanks for having me on.
	Check out my channel, Pod All.
	Bye.
	Bye.
	I love you more than my grandma.
	This grandmother was a capedophile who killed kids.
	I didn't know that.
	They found like 30 little tiny skeletons in her basement buried under the floorboards.
	Jeez Louise.
	I think that's her name, Louise.
	That's where that came from.
	Because of the origin of Jeez Louise.
	When people saw the devastation she had left behind, they said geez and then her name.
	Yeah, it's like that used to scare kids.
	They'd say, Louise is going to get you.
	Oh, geez, Louise.
	Yep.
	But this is, of course, in the 1800s.
	Stay off Social media tomorrow because it happens to be the 700 arrests.
	What the hell is going on?
	And you know what's kind of weird about it, too?
	The night of January 6th, it was like, oh, there was like some sort of kerfuffle at the Capitol.
	January 7th, people were like, oh, yeah, there was like a, they broke a bunch of windows.
	And then maybe three days later, it was like, that was the worst thing that's ever happened.
	And it's the exact same as Max and John, the proud boys who fought Antifa after my talk.
	That night, it was boring.
	And then the Monday, de Blasio, Cuomo, Attorney General, all of these politicians go, hate has no home in New York City.
	And then it became a thing because they realized they could use it for political leverage, which is proof that it wasn't a thing.
	It's like someone saying they were raped and not realizing it for a year.
	Like they did with Aziz Ansari and all that cancel culture with the Me Too movement.
	That was actually rape, come to think of it.
	Yeah, it's a political tool.
	And by the way, on this very show, it's the pinned tweet on Twitter for censored.tv.
	That's D-O-T, we spell it out on Twitter.
	The pinned tweet shows me and Noble Beard, December 22nd, I believe, saying Proud Boys disavow January 6th.
	They can't go.
	Proud Boys made a law that says if you're going to have an event, you have to talk to that local chapter and see if they support it or not.
	If they say no, then you can only go there as a civilian, not as a Proud Boy.
	And there's plenty of record of this, which is why they're having so much trouble prosecuting these guys.
	And the D.C. Proud Boys, there isn't really D.C. Proud Boys, but there's West Virginia Proud Boys.
	They said, no, we don't support it.
	We're not going.
	So the Proud Boys said, okay, well, according to our laws, we can't go there dressed as Proud Boys.
	We have to go there as guys.
	So yes, there were Proud Boys there, but they weren't there as Proud Boys.
	Just like if there was dentists there, they were not representing the dental community.
	And there's Noble Beard saying it.
	So they're trying to prove that Proud Boys plan to overthrow the Capitol.
	And isn't that one little interview, which I can prove happened on that day, way before January 6th, is that not proof that they didn't intend to storm the Bastille?
	Let's talk to someone who was there, who is also a Proud Boy, censored.TV alumni, Nick Ox.
	Nick, are you there, sir?
	I'm there, Gavin.
	How are you?
	I forget how giant your head is.
	Yeah, it's growing, they say, since.
	Like, my whole head could fit on your forehead.
	Look, if I can afford to get the hair plants in, I will.
	That's a tattoo idea, by the way.
	My head on your forehead.
	So you were there.
	We've been talking to lawyers, other people who were there.
	Take us through the day.
	Like, you show up.
	You're flying in from what?
	Hawaii?
	Yeah, well, I can't take you through the day for legal reasons, but I did attend this event as a journalist, announced I was going there as a journalist, and I went there and I filmed it as a journalist.
	That's my contribution.
	And are you allowed to tell us how you went from outside to inside?
	I guess so, yeah.
	I mean, I didn't break anything or any legally questionable stuff like that, if that's what people are wondering.
	I walked in with the crowd, and I was very surprised to see that the people had broken stuff on the way in.
	And I was just there to film what happened, so obviously that's what you're going to film, and I did.
	So you were there as a journalist for Murder the Media?
	That's us, MT Media.
	I don't know if we got that on camera, but still going strong.
	Well, that's why we call it here at the show.
	We call it the meandering, because the vast majority of people who were inside were just walking.
	They were staying in between the ropes.
	You know, they say Joe Biggs went in there and he's pissing on everything.
	No, he went in there and used the bathroom.
	He wasn't pissing on people's desks.
	And when you look at the footage, like this picture above me, you see guys like, hey, man, what's going on?
	Oh, hey, I'm on the phone.
	I got hit with a bullet.
	It's a lot of people lounging around.
	Well, the mood of the day was very different than it looked on TV.
	I'll tell you that.
	Outside, people were angry.
	Inside, that was not the attitude or the atmosphere.
	Again, for legal reasons, I'm just not supposed to talk about the events of, but I'll say for my part, there's a lot of questions about how, why, how this comes together.
	There were a lot of angry dads there.
	That's the inside.
	I want my real opinion.
	That's who I saw.
	I don't think there's any Antifa that had a master plan.
	I don't think there was a master plan.
	That's the whole truth about this.
	Yeah, I agree.
	I do think Antifa were there, though.
	We saw that John Sullivan, that black guy.
	Oh, sure.
	You have all the usual people who show up to any big protest.
	I'm talking about the real nugget of what this is.
	And I think that annoyed 40 to 50-year-old dads.
	Yeah.
	Well, they say it was an insurrection to take over the American government, which makes zero sense.
	Like, China and Russia have a hope of taking over America.
	It would be a bloodbath.
	It would take 10 years and it would cost tens of millions of deaths.
	A bunch of angry dads on a Thursday or whenever it was.
	They're not going to replace the fucking government.
	This is not Cuba with Shea and Fidel and a handful of farmers.
	This is the most powerful nation in the world.
	And then when I say that to liberals, they go, no, no, we don't mean like literally take over the government, but they Wanted to mess with the process for a day.
	And I'm like, okay, I don't believe that.
	But even if that were true, all right.
	So a wrench in the works for an hour?
	Like, well, if it's even that, I mean, I understand the ceremonial nature of certifying a voter or whatever.
	And I don't think that people, anyone really believe they're going to like, if I go wave this sign hard enough, like Trump gets to be president again.
	I just don't think that's a real line of thought, to be honest with you.
	So it's sort of like when Kanye got up and Taylor Swift was getting that award and he was like, no, no, I, you know, Beyonce deserves this award and ruined her acceptance speech, which was rude and tacky.
	But should he go to jail for that?
	I mean, was Taylor still got the award?
	Yeah, the, well, you know, things go forward as they go.
	I've never been under the illusion that I'm going to really change anything with demonstrations.
	I don't think demonstrations in general just, it's, maybe people enjoy them, but I don't see them as affecting democracy that much, as they say.
	I agree, especially when there was a big one in November, a big one in December.
	Like, we got it.
	We got it.
	Like, one a month for that whole time just seemed excessive to me, which is why I said don't go.
	But can you tell us about life after that day?
	So you go back to the hotel, whatever.
	You weren't arrested or anything that day, right?
	No, well, I got in a plane, flew back to Hawaii, and I was immediately arrested in the airport because they waited to go get your bag so they know you're the one.
	And yeah, so I was throwing in.
	Whoa, whoa, whoa.
	Are we allowed to get into detail there?
	I guess so.
	I mean, the FBI snatched me up.
	So you get your bags.
	Are you alone?
	Yeah, I'm just, you know, I'm going to pick up my bag.
	And, you know, it's Hawaii, so there's all kinds of COVID regulations you can't even imagine.
	I had to go sign papers or say I'm not ill or whatever the hell it was back then.
	And that took a minute, and I was taking my time, so I wanted to go get my bag.
	And that's at which point they get you and put me in some sort of affordable car.
	You know, take your phones, all that.
	Wait, wait, did they say, are you Nick Ox?
	And then they have the little badge thing?
	What am I going to say, you know?
	No.
	You know what I would do?
	And I'm not telling you how to live your life, but I would say yes.
	And then when they turn around, I would go, and then the other guy, I would bring him down and hit him with my knee.
	And then I would do a big, slow circle kick that knocked them out, like knocked them to the ground, sorry.
	Then I would get up on the thing that has the luggage and be running along that and then jump over that thing, run out to where the exit is, rip someone out of their car.
	You thought of this?
	Yeah, you know, they're very professional people, the FBI.
	I'm sure I never would have gotten with anything like that.
	We all love the FBI.
	I've seen movies where it happens 100 times.
	I don't think it's that complicated.
	So you go into the affordable car, and then where do they take you?
	There's some kind of office they got out in Hawaii.
	And, you know, they're like, do you want to talk to us?
	You know, you can sign away all your rights.
	And I remember they gave me some paper.
	And I declined to talk to them without a lawyer, you know, because I'm dumb, but there's limits.
	Yeah.
	Who the fuck is like, thank you for that opportunity?
	Here we go.
	You have to be a mental patient.
	Well, people do.
	I mean, if you ever watch police interviews, it doesn't take much.
	Anyway, so I just don't touch a cops without lawyers.
	So I declined to do that, and I was thrown in a federal prison for a week with a trespassing charge, which I was told later is not normal.
	Yeah, that sounds unprecedented.
	And some other charges came later, to no great surprise at that point.
	So are you allowed to say what charges you're facing?
	Yeah, I'm facing up to 20 years.
	That's what I'm facing.
	With what charges?
	That's the...
	All right, so it's a very specific thing.
	I think in 2009, maybe 2011, sometime around there, they added like a clause to a paragraph to witness intimidation, basically.
	And that's, there's, it says if you interrupt an official meeting, it's the same thing as like trying to punk out a jury.
	And the ACLU lost their minds back in the day.
	You haven't heard much from them recently on the subject.
	But that's what they're using because they're saying, well, you interrupted an official proceeding or a meeting of some kind.
	And so that's 20 years.
	You know, like sedition carries 20 years.
	And I guess the legal debate was whether to charge people with that or sedition.
	And this is seen as an easier thing.
	Sedition is kind of like a crazy thing to charge people with.
	And this they feel they could maybe legally push this further.
	I guess.
	I'm not a lawyer, but this is what I get from reading the internet.
	But Antifa and the radical left have been doing exactly that, and there's no debate about it in their case, burning down police headquarters all over the Pacific Northwest.
	You know, the idea that interrupting any kind of politician at work is 20 years, that means the prisons would be full of protesters because that's all Antifa's been doing.
	Well, that approach has been tried, believe it or not.
	And the judge that most recently commented on that said that it's different because they burned down courthouses and such at night.
	Yes.
	And they're not heinous.
	So it's not really the same that these people said that.
	They're not going to use that because they just let them go.
	They're like, oh, there's the ones that did get punished and they got this and that.
	It's strange.
	Anyway, from what I understand, that's not going to be a defense in this thing, is that there's a disparity in treatment between right and left protesters.
	It's just whether it should or not, I'll leave that up to your viewers to decide, but it's not working.
	I see.
	So I, you know, so much of this is just conjecture and guessing.
	And I definitely felt about five months ago that 20 years was possible, at least for like half a dozen or a dozen, no, half a dozen of the guys.
	Now my gut says everyone's looking at something, but it's going to range from like one to two, not even three years probation kind of thing.
	Because the big trespassing, vandalism, all that rioting is easy to prove.
	But sedition, conspiracy, all of that is, I mean, a mountain of work.
	And I don't think there's any evidence because I don't think you did conspire, any of you.
	No, when I pleaded not guilty, I mean, I mean it.
	I didn't conspire.
	I just, like, I'm this dumb.
	This is me.
	Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to get.
	I can't predict such a thing.
	I don't think I'm going away for 20 years.
	I'm pretty sure I'm going to prison.
	Like, I'm going to prison.
	How does that make you feel?
	I'm fine with it.
	Yeah?
	You got a newborn?
	I do, yeah.
	And so if you have to get locked up, he's not newborn anymore.
	He just turned two here the day after Christmas.
	But it's a good time to get locked up, if that makes sense.
	My boy won't be so old that, you know, he's scared of me when I come out, hopefully.
	You know, when I grew up, my dad was gone a lot because he was deployed.
	You know, he'd be in Somalia or whatever.
	And I'm fine.
	I'm not trying to talk tough.
	I just, this is not the end of the world.
	Like, I'm fine.
	Yeah, I think the end of the world is five or more years with a kid who is five or more.
	This is manageable.
	It's insane.
	And it's just me talking.
	I'm not speaking on behalf of Nick.
	I think this is fucking insane.
	I think this is all about optics.
	This is a PR stunt as far as I'm concerned, not Nick.
	And I think it's a good example of the decay of our justice system.
	It's just me talking, not Nick.
	But within all of that clown world parameter, you getting, you know, two years, getting out in a year and a half, your kid being three and a half, it's digestible.
	Horrific, but digestible.
	It's, yeah, it is what it is.
	I'm not going to complain about it.
	I'm just not.
	Okay.
	Now, your wife, who's African-American, you should capitalize on that.
	You should always have a picture of her behind you for every interview.
	Or maybe just get a tattoo of her on your cheek.
	I really don't show her off for that reason.
	I get accused of it all the time.
	It's a funny thing being in my position and with the interracial thing.
	My wife, I want to say, has handled this better than anybody should have to.
	You know what D.L. Hughley is, that guy?
	Oh, I hate that guy.
	Yeah.
	He's got little spiky dreads.
	Michael Malice swears by him.
	I think Michael Malice ghostwrote his book.
	Yeah, he's fantastic.
	So here's what D.L. Hughley did to my wife.
	I'm in prison, and I don't know if I'm ever getting out.
	You don't know if this is like 50 years or it's a publicity separate day.
	You just don't know because I didn't talk to anybody, no calls, no TV, none of that, right?
	In the meantime, D.L. Hughley tweeted a picture.
	It's a novelty photo from the 60s or 70s of a landsman in full hood, right?
	Wait a naked black chick over his shoulder.
	And he says, this is Nick Oakes.
	And this picture was confiscated from his house with his wife draped over his shoulder in the nude.
	And so this hit black Twitter, and it just, it became a massive thing.
	And I mean, my wife, a black part of Philadelphia.
	Like, it's, I know this is hard on her through people she knows, through the most insane things people say.
	And there's just no, what are you going to do about it?
	You know, sue somebody for defamation?
	But wait a minute.
	When I saw, I saw that tweet and I thought, yeah, that's probably true.
	And it's funny.
	They had a funny picture on their wall.
	No, it's like from a novelty calendar or something from the 60s.
	I don't know where you would go get a clan suit, but that's a lot of work for a novelty photo, to be honest.
	No, no, I meant you had found it somewhere and it was on your wall with your memorabilia and stuff.
	No, no.
	The FBI never raided my house, first of all.
	Ah, okay.
	I just assume they listen to my calls, but like they really have bugged me personally.
	That's funny because I believed it and I just went, oh, relax.
	Him and his wife obviously have a sense of humor and they have a dumb joke picture on their wall.
	No, it's completely made up by D.L. Hegley or whoever made that in the first place.
	I don't know, but he made it popular also.
	Well, what the left has done, right, is they've said, I've decided that everyone to the right of me is racist, and that's a comfortable fit, and you can't defend yourself, right?
	How do you prove that you don't believe a thing?
	And then all of a sudden, they start noticing that some of them have black wives.
	And because they put all of the eggs in the racism basket, it's a very fragile belief system.
	So once you just go pook with a black wife, the whole thing falls apart.
	So now they have to reinvent the basket and they go, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
	It's like a slave owner raping his slave, which totally demeans the wife, by the way.
	She's this stupid bitch now who is like constantly abused and takes it.
	Like I'd love to see that.
	They say the same about Zenoa Kinsman, John's wife.
	And I'm like, I'd love to see you say the bedwench thing to her face in person.
	I have a feeling you'll be a little less brave about throwing that term around when you're talking about the actual person, like a 9-11 truther talking to the family of a victim.
	But it's amazing how they keep reinventing the wheel.
	And they bring up some guy who fucked his slave, like Thomas Jefferson or something, one million years ago, to maintain this retarded belief system that everyone on the right is a white supremacist.
	You have to do some serious gymnastics.
	Like, you know, the word, they only say the word racist because that's what gets you fired.
	You know, if people who really who hated pop-tarts got fired, they call you a Pop-Tart hater.
	It doesn't, that's why they use the word.
	It doesn't have to make sense.
	And of course, if you call them on it, as I've been known to occasionally do, then yeah, they got to jump through hoops.
	But And you do get the bed winch thing a lot, especially my wife.
	She hears it more than me because, again, you know, she's on the internet.
	And that's bad.
	Like, it's a lot for her to deal with.
	You know, I get used to this.
	She didn't ask to sign up for the, it just comes along, my baggage in life, and she handles it like a pro.
	I'm glad to hear that because we all have that experience with our wives in this crazy clown world.
	And I understand it genetically as a cave woman because you're like, I'm married to this man.
	He's going to protect me, put a roof over my head.
	You know, he keeps the monsters away from the cave.
	And then all her friends dump her.
	Her family's weird around her.
	And it's the same result as this philandering, shitty husband who's a drug addict and keeps fucking girls in the bar.
	Like it's the same blowback.
	Even though the husband's innocent, it's the same sort of results.
	So, you know, cave-wise, her brain, I'm not just talking about your wife, my wife too, her brain goes, husband bad, him hurt, family, ooh, ug, ug, no like man, bad man.
	And it takes a lot to overcome that instinct and go, yeah, that is the result, but it's not fair.
	So I stand by him.
	Exactly.
	That's what I'm so thankful for.
	And just, she can deflect it too because it's all so dumb.
	I mean, when people say I'm a fetishizer or whatever, like, we have a kid.
	Like, I'm around here.
	That's not what that word means.
	You know what I mean?
	But it's just, you see both sides of it.
	Really, I'm in a unique position in a lot of ways.
	I remember for our baby shower, right?
	She went to Philadelphia to see the people she knows, blah, blah, blah.
	We were at, I won't go into where, but we were decorating this venue and met her family, nice folks.
	Everybody's there, you know?
	There were some cowboys there.
	I saw somebody who's dressed like an Egyptian pharaoh, you know, not as a joke.
	Everybody shows up.
	It's the whole spectrum.
	Anyway, later in the news, I saw somebody I recognized who I helped put decorations up with, sort of a distant family member of hers, had run over two cops on purpose during the Philadelphia because cops aren't bad, right?
	And just that's what she decided to do.
	So within 24 hours, and she's not a person who has no connections to that.
	She was completely bailed out of jail.
	There's a team of lawyers out.
	Still out as far as I know.
	And it makes you think, you know, everything gets the knot.
	Yeah, well, you're sort of cutting in and out there towards the end of the story, but I think I got it.
	And Donald Trump Jr. summed it up.
	I was going to say black privilege, but it's really liberal privilege.
	We're living in an era of liberal privilege, and there's no limit to the heinous crimes you can get away with if it's under the name of supporting the DNC.
	If you're in Antifa and you're firebombing shit, they'll work it out.
	I think that the pendulum is swinging back.
	I think Antifa is starting to get arrested.
	But, you know, two years ago, last year even, someone would punch a cop in the head and all of a sudden they were Antifa, these magic lawyers would just appear out of nowhere.
	And their funds were limitless.
	That's what we were talking about with John Pierce, too.
	You guys are up against limitless funds.
	It's crazy.
	And it's hard because I can't raise money for it.
	You know, I'm banned from everything.
	I'm definitely more banned than Laura Loomer, by the way, if she wants to go head-to-head on that.
	It's insane that I can't do that.
	I really can't.
	And it's not just go fund me.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, it's the right-wing sites too are too scared to touch me.
	So I appreciate you having me on.
	It's noticeable.
	So can you get a give, send, go?
	I haven't tried to raise money forever because I just get banned from everything.
	I mean, yeah, if people want to help me out, you can maybe hit me in person.
	I'll figure that away.
	But you're not going to Venmo me to pay that much.
	Yeah.
	Let's get a give, send, go going because we just had some success with John Kinsman's kids for Christmas, a little toy drive.
	Yeah, they shut me down in the early days.
	Oh, really?
	Frustrating.
	Well, I get the vibe, Nick, and so much of this is just about vibes because the facts are devoid of logic.
	I get the vibe that you're a little more solid right now and things are more tangible.
	You know what I mean?
	Like, you're more in control and the world is a little more ordered than it was a year ago.
	Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm facing uncertainty, all that.
	I haven't lived a very certain life, I guess.
	I take this stuff on stride.
	I'm doing fine, personally.
	I don't want the viewers to worry about me.
	If I do get locked up, I'll say this on air.
	I will never kill myself.
	Good to know.
	Nick Hawks didn't kill himself.
	All right, man, keep in touch.
	Let's stay in touch and see where this is going.
	Thanks for having me on, Gavin.
	I'll talk to you later.
	Cheers, buddy.
	Try not to play the beginning of that because he says tomorrow.
	And he recorded that on January 5th.
	I shouldn't have played that song.
	You know what I should have played?
	The song that the Proud Boys blare from their truck when they march through Long Island, the Five Points Proud Boys, which is like five different boroughs of New York.
	They play the Pine Tar Rebellion song.
	Is that what it's called?
	Pine Tar, Pine Camp?
	Pine something Rebellion?
	And this was, it sums up the club perfectly, I think.
	When the war started, the American Revolution, fighting the British, the Brits realized they're going to need more ships, and they realized ships need masts, and that means trees.
	So they told, the Pine Tree Rebellion, they told lumberjacks not to cut down any trees that were bigger than this, because they need them.
	So those are the property of the crown.
	If it has a diameter this big, then it's the property of the crown.
	You may not touch them because we need them for masts so we can shoot you from our boats with cannons.
	And so the Americans said, fuck you.
	And they started chopping them down and using them for their own means.
	Not their own way.
	They were arrested for that.
	And then the Americans beat the shit out of the sheriff with pine branches.
	They beat up the British who came to prosecute them and ultimately ended up winning the war.
	So it's a great anti-authority, anti-government anthem.
	And when they did it on Long Island, the mayor of the town, whatever town it was, had a vigil at a synagogue.
	What?
	Because they don't support hate on Long Island.
	And you're like, you're talking about the Pine Tree Rebellion.
	What you love?
	Are you British?
	Have a vigil at the British Embassy if you want to make some kind of sense.
	Get him out of here.
	Get out.
	No, no.
	All right, let's talk law here.
	The other lawyer we have on today's show, Mr. Dan Hall.
	I want you to try to ignore the fact that he looks exactly like Paul McCartney during this interview and focus on what he's talking about, folks, okay?
	Only an idiot, an imbecile baby would be staring at him thinking, holy shit, he looks exactly like Paul McCartney.
	This is a serious show.
	We do real news and talk to real people.
	That's right.
	Right?
	Yes.
	Here we go.
	Don't you know it's going to last?
	Dan, are you there, sir?
	I am.
	Good afternoon.
	Good afternoon.
	Let me introduce you to the viewers.
	You are the lawyer that is representing Mr. Joe Biggs for his meandering on January 6th.
	I represent Joseph Biggs in connection with one of the criminal proceedings brought in the District of Columbia.
	That's right.
	Wait, so you're only representing him for one charge and someone else is representing him for another charge?
	No, no, I'm representing him and for all the charges against him.
	Oh, good.
	Okay.
	He's been sued with three other individuals who are supposedly leaders of the Proud Boys on that day.
	But I'm also representing another January 6th figure who wasn't there named Henry Terrio in connection with the House of Representatives investigation.
	Right.
	Now, we were just talking to a documentarian who was filming Joe that day.
	And we brought up the New York Times article where they said that weird prospect kid said Joe showed him a gun and said, let's go into the Capitol.
	This filmmaker has footage of that meeting, and you clearly see there's no gun involved.
	You can see a gun?
	No, no.
	You clearly see no gun involved.
	You see them talking about the Ryan Samsel myth, which is one of the strangest stories that I've heard since I've been involved in this.
	First of all, no proud boy that I know had a gun that day, and certainly Joe Biggs didn't.
	He came from Florida.
	The myth is that a gentleman named Ryan Samsel, who has quite a criminal history that's remarkable, put his arm around Joe and said something.
	And Joe said, showed him a gun and said, I want you to go up and break down one of those barriers and mess with one of those cops.
	And Samson is supposed to have said, you know, I'm hesitant about that, which is very unlikely.
	And Joe said, well, you're a pussy.
	And if you don't go up there, you're not a real man.
	That is total mythology.
	That's the kind of stories that come out of January 6th.
	Yeah, it's crazy the interpretation, like the perception versus reality.
	I've never seen a case where those two are farther apart.
	The perception is that there was an insurrection.
	The reality is that there was a meandering.
	And like, for example, Joe Biggs broke in there and started urinating everywhere.
	No, while he was in there, he used the public bathroom.
	Well, he did.
	And one of the interesting things about all of this is, of course, that the Justice Department has selected the Prow Boys as low-hanging fruit to pin a conspiracy plan or coordination of obstruction of the Harris-Biden certification.
	And the truth is, there was no plan, there was no conspiracy, there's no coordination.
	The Prowboys were doing that day what they always do, which is march around, get their pictures taken, say some hammy things.
	In this case, they was their fourth time in Washington that year, and they did what they always did.
	They went to the east front of the Capitol, got their pictures taken, said F Antifa a few times, and then walked back down to the right down Constitution Avenue and had lunch.
	And while they were having lunch, Trump's speech ended, and they were about to go back to the ellipse, and at the last minute decided to go up to the bottom of Capitol Hill.
	And I don't know about you, but after I've had a couple of hoagies, I always want to storm the Bastion.
	And that's the films tell that story, the films that everybody can see.
	But there wasn't any, it was the normal Proud Boy march, except there weren't very many people.
	It was during the day, which is normal, not many people, out of uniform for a reason.
	And there was a plan to go back to the ellipse or a place closer to the White House, away, about a mile and a half from the Capitol.
	And that didn't happen because at the last minute, there was this magic moment where somebody looked over their shoulder and said, who are these people marching up the hill?
	And they were not any kind of, quote, militia or just looked like mom and pops, folks from Ohio, North Carolina, New Jersey, whoever, were going up the hill about one o'clock.
	And they were still sitting down eating lunch.
	And somebody said, well, we're going to go.
	We're going to go back to the ellipse.
	And then somebody else said, well, what's that?
	And then they made the mistake of walking over to the bottom of the hill and hanging out there for a little while.
	A few cheers, a few fantifas.
	And, you know, the rest, then there's this magic moment where somebody decides, let's follow these people up the hill, which was a bad move.
	Because once you follow people up the hill, you're trespassing.
	You're not in First Amendment land anymore.
	So you're right.
	To look at the films, Joe walked.
	He's hardly storming anyone.
	He and his compatriots, well, one in particular who you know named Rufio Panman or aka Ethan Nordine stood quietly.
	They're looking at their cell phones.
	There is some violence and fighting going on in the outside of the Capitol.
	But twice, and there's a film of one of these, the two of them tore a demonstrator or fighter off a Capitol Hilltop.
	They weren't very animated.
	They went to the bathroom, went to the Capitol, did use the bathroom, went up to the Senate chambers.
	But it's not like, I think people are going to be disappointed when they finally see the films of Joe, who was usually by himself in those films, walking and strolling around in the Capitol like it's the first trip to the Smithsonian.
	You know, it's amazing how much work you've done for all this, the research and the legal work you've done.
	I don't think people understand how incredibly expensive these things are.
	I mean, ideally you have, what, a million per representative?
	Like, a million for Ethan, a million for Biggs.
	I'm retained in this.
	I'm not like, I don't do pro bono.
	I'm not, there's three kinds of lawyers.
	There's retained people, it's people who get paid.
	There's CJA appointments, which are kind of like a private version of public defenders, and public defenders.
	And by the way, the public defenders and the CGA people, for the most part, are excellent, especially the public defenders.
	Retained people are different, and I'm used to representing corporations, often in crimes, always in federal courts.
	But the budget for this for two corporations, if you will, going at each other for a six-week trial after a month of preparation would be astronomical.
	I won't even mention it here.
	But I will say, though, that even lowering your rate, probably the budget for, you know, the people the Justice Department have identified as being leaders of a group or really part of destruction and conspiracy,
	there's not many charge of that.
	That's at least a half million dollar budget to defend.
	And that's on the low side.
	Half a million dollars.
	And this is a problem.
	You need to remember that the just, and I think you know this, the Justice Department has an unlimited budget.
	Exactly.
	Very good lawyers.
	They throw good people at this.
	And they're throwing very good people at Joe's case in particular.
	Yeah, it's all about the optics.
	Well, we were talking to John Pierce earlier, and we were using analogies like, it's like the little engine that could versus a bunch of F-14 fighter jets.
	I mean, you're not even in the same universe, and that's a real problem with our justice system.
	Once the state is out to get you, how is this different from Stalinism?
	Because the courts have a 98% guilty rate, and it's you and your petty, like when I say you, I mean Joe Biggs, it's the average citizen and whatever he's managed to save throughout his life versus literally infinity.
	Yeah, and these are big deal cases and important cases.
	And, you know, the verdict, if you will, is still out on what really happened that day.
	Nobody's talking, everybody's on the right and the left are talking about really crazy, mindless narratives that never happened, conspiracy theories, at best.
	This was the madness of crowds pushed along a little bit maybe by some of the things that Trump said in his speech.
	There may have been some professional crowd fomenters in it.
	But there's a lot of people involved, and we're not sure about that, but it does not look like when all is said and done, there's going to be a conspiracy or plan storyline for this.
	However, right now there is, and there will be up until the time of Joe's trial.
	And that's what I'm faced with.
	Well, that seems to be going back and forth here when we talk to John, who, by the way, wants to become best friends with you.
	I'm sorry, Gavin, say that again.
	John wants to be your best friend.
	With me?
	Yeah.
	Well, no, I mean, we haven't had dinner yet, but sure.
	Okay, so you have an opening in the best friend position.
	That's good to know.
	No, I'd like to, I'm not exactly sure what you said.
	I'd love to meet John, and John and I need to talk about some things anyway, but I think that I'm very happy that good lawyers like John got involved in this because some of the lawyers are better than others.
	And you see that a lot.
	And one of the reasons for that, and I think you and I talked about this a couple of days off camera, is that you can get lots of people from the larger firms to represent the Taliban, but you can't for some reason get anybody to represent anyone who marched up that hill that day.
	And this is true of Proud Boys and the right in general.
	Like I was getting sued last year for some made-up charge, and the lawyers kept refusing.
	And every time they would refuse to represent me, I'd say, you know, Jeffrey Dahmer had a lawyer.
	And that's right.
	And there's some, he did.
	And this case is public defenders do make sense for a lot of these clients, but some of them, public defenders are busy, very busy.
	And I talk to Joe every day, period, no matter what.
	He shouldn't be where he is.
	He's, of course, detained pretrial based on his future dangerousness.
	Oh, right.
	So he's in the shoe, right?
	He's in solitary right now.
	He's not in solitary.
	He's actually in a federal subset or hold of a jail in Florida, which is actually probably of the four jails involved with these four, his three codependents, probably the best, but it's still jail.
	He shouldn't be there.
	And the notion that he has future dangerousness attributes under the Bail Reform Act is a little bit insane if you think about this presupposes that the reason he was put back in jail is,
	hey, he might do this again.
	I mean, the idea of future dangerousness is we want to have people in jail pre-trial for, you know, forgery, rape, auto theft, things that they have a history of doing.
	Joe has no criminal record.
	And it's very unlikely, I think, that anyone, especially Joe, who was out for three months between the time he was finally incarcerated and he was first processed, is going to commit another insurrection.
	That's just crazy.
	It's nuts.
	Or organize something similar to that.
	So you have a man who's in jail based on the notion that basically a theory.
	Evidence hasn't been presented in a courtyard, but here's somebody who helped plan and organize and coordinate proud boys.
	And he should be in jail before he has trial because he might do this again if he was allowed to be home.
	Yeah, it's just more of the clown world optics war that's going on with this thing.
	I interrupted myself with a dumb best friend joke earlier.
	What I wanted to get to is we all want this to be recognized for what it is.
	A silly petty crime.
	It's trespassing.
	It might be vandalism.
	We don't want it to get to conspiracy.
	I'm getting mixed answers on is conspiracy easy to prove?
	Well, I think it's very hard to prove.
	It's easy to allege, and that's what's keeping everything together.
	I see.
	The problem is once you have it sort of in place, all the defendants in a conspiracy are, of course, responsible for what the others said and did.
	But it's a good question.
	I would say that much easier to allege and theorize than to prove.
	And I think it's going to be very difficult for the government to do that.
	Conspiracy should have all the resources.
	They have a D.C. jury.
	No, that doesn't mean that the jurors are black.
	That means that they're woke people of all different colors who likely don't like Proud Boys and don't know anything about them.
	Yeah, I think the D.C. rate for voting for Trump was something like 2%.
	So the odds of them being sympathetic are very low.
	But surely conspiracy involves dates and times and places.
	Meet me at the steps at 4.30.
	We'll storm the Bastille at 4.35.
	Just saying, let's fuck shit up.
	That's what you say before every Mets game.
	No, I do too.
	And one of the Prowboys did two things that were unfortunate.
	And one was what they usually do, and that is like saying a lot of things that everybody in half of America was saying between the election of Joe Biden and the inauguration.
	And the other thing they did was they decided to go up that hill.
	Going up that hill, which is bad, and it's trespass, but it's super trespass on a constitutional day.
	And it's on a day when even a Trump appointee thinks, wait, you might be interfering here with the peaceful transfer of power, which is a fair thing.
	But in the case of the Prowboys, and that's distinct from some of these other groups, I don't want to talk about other groups of people, whether they have names or not, but there's no plan like, you know, we do this, we meet here, you're right.
	We have guns that we're going to bring across the river and nothing like that at all.
	And every indication showed that they were probably not going to storm anything or do any violence.
	They weren't armed.
	They were wearing stab-proof vests.
	Some of them couldn't afford it and had to borrow money to get it.
	There weren't a lot of Proud Boys that day.
	They left their wives and girlfriends at home.
	And the notion was that they might be stabbed during the day.
	As you know, on December 12th and the rally before, a month before, four Proud Boys were stabbed by members of NT.
	That's why I said don't go.
	Because the takeaway from that stabbing was that Proud Boys showed up in D.C. and a stabbing ensued, not Proud Boys were stabbed.
	Yeah, and one of the things that was really interesting to me is the Washington Post, which I used to admire, mentioned the stabbings.
	I went back and looked at it, but it almost made it look as though it was the fault of the Proud Boys, and it wasn't at all.
	It was a rank-and-file Antifa member stabbed four of them.
	This kind of thing had happened before, but the idea was when we come back, let's be incognito, not because that would make it easier to pull off the, you know, storming the Bastille or interfering with the Harris Biden certification,
	but it would make it harder for them to see us.
	Same thing with communication.
	Well, wait, wait, Dan, there was another thing.
	Right before January 6th, the Proud Boys had come up with a new law, and that is we check with the local chapter before we do something on their turf.
	And if they're against it, then we can only go as citizens and not as Proud Boys.
	So apparently the D.C. Proud Boys did not want this.
	And that's the first thing that somebody like Enrique Terrio will start telling people when he gets out of jail next Friday and starts talking to the House Committee.
	There was a request that they not do it.
	I think, and there may have been one other reason, which I won't disclose now, but it's pretty good.
	It's just not something I need to disclose now.
	I think the best reason was not to get stabbed during the day.
	And Chief, during the summer of 2020, which some people have forgotten about, became stabby during the day and at night.
	Powboys don't generally carry weapons.
	In fact, that's frowned on.
	And they're defensive.
	They will, however, fight back if they think that they or particularly Trump Normies are threatened, whether that be in D.C. or, you know, yeah, it just occurred to me, this might be evidence that I could give you.
	We had Noble Beard on the show in December, and he had been stabbed, but he had the chest plates and the back plates, so he thought he was just being punched.
	He didn't notice until much later that there was knife holes in his plates.
	They were plastic.
	But I have him on tape in December saying Proud Boys officially are not going to January 6th.
	So that's a video record of it being a public thing.
	The Proud Boys are not going to go.
	The Washington Post at least covered it, and then they sort of changed it a little bit to make it seem even more like it was the Proud Boys' fault, frankly.
	But, and, you know, Noble Beard, to his credit, has been very active.
	I'm not sure where he's from, but every day on Telegram.
	And I noticed this the other day.
	I'd forgotten for a while that he was one of the stabbees.
	And I woke up and I saw, I don't look at Telegram all the time, but I noticed that this is the day that I'll never forget.
	And it's December 12th of last year, of 2021, recognizing that anniversary.
	But yeah, they were trying not to get stabbed.
	They were using the communications that they had to detect antifa and not to hide what they were doing.
	And, you know, people don't wear stab-proof gears just before the revolution if they're going to go up and fight cops.
	Most Capitol Hill cops don't have sabers and swords and knives.
	Well, they also had a concert planned with Michael Graves at, I think, 3 o'clock or something.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	And that's been entered.
	And I think very well, a really good point that was brought up, particularly by the very fine attorneys representing Ethan Nordine.
	It was part of the whole, you know, what they usually do.
	It's just that they added an event.
	Like, you march, okay?
	You have a plan.
	You march, you have a picture taken.
	Maybe you take a nap.
	Then maybe we'll have some beers.
	Then we'll go to the concert.
	You know, they had some things to do, which was going to make, and they did talk about being where Antifa might be that night.
	That was the big event.
	That's always the big event.
	And it was business as usual, except for the color, the dress, and the stat-proof vest, which I'm trying to get the Justice Department to pay more attention to, but they just don't like hearing.
	Yeah, okay, I'm the judge at this.
	I'm very angry about the trespassing on the hill.
	I hereby smash down my gavel, and I say a year probation for Joe Biggs, and time served.
	Goodbye.
	Yeah, I mean, and hopefully I can do that or better for Joe Biggs.
	But right now, as of two weeks ago, because the obstruction, two things happened that were novel in this.
	One was future dangerousness meant something like storming the Capitol or having an insurrection.
	You don't usually keep guys.
	You don't find a lot of people like Joe Biggs in jail on pretrial detention on these facts.
	That was one novel thing.
	But even more novel was the obstruction statute, which is based on obstructing Congress when it's acting like it's court or taking testimony or doing subpoenas.
	It's an obstruction in the sense of you don't want to damage records.
	You don't want to intimidate witnesses.
	You don't want to kill witnesses.
	But to use it for a ministerial kind of formal ceremonial thing like a certification, this is a new one.
	It's novel.
	And eventually it will probably go to the Supreme Court.
	That's something we just lost on.
	And it's changed the terrain of all this.
	So people are getting ready to go to trial.
	I'm in the process of trying to get Joe out of jail a second time.
	We can appeal the detention.
	We had another detention reaffirmation, if you will, about two weeks ago.
	But the motion to dismiss that was filed against the, which was filed on obstruction, that failed.
	And that unfortunately, under most circumstances, can't be appealed until the end of the hunt.
	That means after trial or after the case is over.
	And that may be inefficient, but the law and the federal courts have been that way for a long time.
	Now, we talked about this earlier.
	My problem with the obstruction is that Antifa has been doing it across the country, especially in the Pacific Northwest.
	We even had the Capitol, I think it was in Madison, Wisconsin, where they stormed in and prevented everyone from doing their job.
	And then Merrick Garland says, no, no, no, Antifa doesn't count because they do it at night when no one's there.
	And you go, no, they often do it at night, but Antifa and the radical left also do it in the day.
	So if this is going to be, obstruction is going to become interrupting the government in the day, then the prisons will be full of radical leftists.
	I agree with that, except that the Capitol, this is a special place on a special day during the day where they're doing something that most people knew or could have known was the certification of the vote.
	So it's like not the best bet and not the best, frankly, comparison.
	I mean, believe me, when I hear people talking about all the noises that were made about Trump's win in November 2016, people forget about that.
	They said that was like an invalid election.
	People made noises about it for four years.
	Same with respect to Antifa.
	I get calls all the time.
	Well, what about Antifa?
	It's a little different.
	Antifa does usually do things at night.
	They're, I think, better organized.
	They've been around longer.
	They've been around for about 50 years.
	They're very serious.
	They're not playful.
	They're not like, they weren't started by a comedian named Gas McGuinness.
	But one of the interesting things about this is while that makes everyone Quite angry.
	That's not before the courts.
	What's before the courts?
	And, you know, I can't be a cheerleader here.
	I have to be a lawyer.
	And if I look at this, you know, in an even-handed way, that's in front of me.
	And the judges are right to make comparisons between.
	I mean, some of the judges, to their credit, have actually, whether it's before them or not, have raised this saying, what about Antifa?
	Well, the answer, which came down with the denial of my motion to reopen detention hearings and the denial of the motion to dismiss, the answer was, well, it was a little different.
	And the judges have a point on that.
	Antifa is interesting to me because a lot of people on the right say Antifa were there that day.
	This was an Antifa operation or this was an FBI operation.
	There were a lot of Antifa people there that day.
	Yeah, John Sullivan, he was just subpoenaed.
	But they didn't have to do anything.
	I mean, this happened anyway.
	For whatever reason, it happened.
	And I call it the madness of crowds or herd mentality plus.
	Yeah.
	But I'm sorry.
	I got confused there.
	What exactly did the judge say to the Antifa argument?
	I'm not thinking of my judge, but there were a couple of judges who on their own suispancy talked about Antifa.
	Yep, I got that.
	And they said early on, and I think I remember the name of the judge, but I want to get it wrong.
	He was making a decision one way or the other and just raised on his own, I mean, why isn't the Justice Department coming after Antifa for doing this and that on the West Coast?
	That's one thing that happened.
	And what was the response he got?
	Right.
	What was the response?
	Pardon?
	What was the response to that?
	Well, he just raised it.
	I mean, he didn't like, he just sort of raised it on his own.
	And there was not, like, the defendant didn't raise it.
	The judge did.
	And the judge did in an opinion.
	And he also did, excuse me, want to make sure I got the right.
	It was during an oral argument, saying, you know, what's all that about?
	But people in court, and I'm not talking about the proceeding that I'm in, started raising the same argument.
	And a couple of judges did respond to it and say, you know, it's different.
	What happened, you know, a post office is not the United States Capitol, different time of day, different thing going on.
	And primarily what bothers the judges about whether they're Trump appointees, I think, Trump appointees or Obama appointees or Clinton appointees, is that there was something that happened that interfered with the peaceful transfer of power.
	And we're very proud that we do that in the United States a certain way.
	So they all seem to be united on that, if that helps answer your question.
	Yes, it does.
	We're out of time.
	I could talk to you for hours.
	I'd love you to come to New York and we'll have a long sit-down because I think this is a three-hour discussion.
	But just to wrap it up, how can we donate?
	Is there any way to get money to any of the I appreciate your asking this?
	One of the problems has been that there hasn't been, and even people on the left agree with me on this, there should be access to funds or access to courts, money for people like the Proud Boys, and I don't mean Joe Biggs and Henry Terrier.
	They're not bad at raising money.
	One of the problems has been, though, that people who want to write $5,000 checks rather than $50 checks or $5 checks don't want to use credit card transactions, don't want to use these fundraisers.
	Some of the fundraisers are more legitimate than others.
	So we're trying to come up with now some kind of device whereby people could give anonymously, safely, and get these people the help they need.
	And they do need it.
	And I think that's fair.
	This is not about making lawyers rich.
	This is just about making the playing field even and to be announced.
	To be announced.
	And working on that as we speak.
	In fact, I'm going to talk to you about that at some point because we need to get the word out once that vehicle is in place.
	But that's not what I do.
	I'm not smart about those things.
	Other people are working on it and working on it fast because this is coming up and there is a crisis of resources here to a certain extent.
	Yeah, I mean, I want to just go from David and Goliath to Goliath versus Goliath.
	I don't think that's too much to ask.
	And the only way to do that is to amass all of the supporters.
	And then at least it's thousands of patriots versus thousands of bureaucrats as opposed to thousands of bureaucrats versus you.
	I agree.
	And if half the people in this country, and I think this is true, have ideas or feelings about the way the country is going or has been going for the last 20 years that are very similar to the Proud Boys culturally, and I think they do, there's a lot of support,
	but it's been difficult to bring that out without losing it or without having USAI Today shut it down.
	I think that's terribly unfair.
	And I even know people who work for some of our most liberal newspapers who think that funds should be available to people no matter who they are.
	The Justice Department are bringing really good lawyers to these cases.
	That's fun in a way to some people.
	They are attracted by, you know, that's great.
	I want to be against good lawyers, but you need hunting dogs for this, and they like money.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Well, Prowboys is a, all the cases with them in the past have been bereft of justice.
	We've got Max and John serving four years for a 17-second fight with Antifa.
	Their appeal was all liberals.
	It was three black women and an Asian guy who walked off mid-appeal.
	I mean, we're getting closer and closer to Venezuela, and it's feeling less American every day.
	I'm here as a lawyer for a couple of guys you know, but we should talk about the next time when I get to meet you in person.
	Great meeting you, by the way.
	Okay.
	Great meeting you.
	And just before we go, can you just say in a liver puddling accent that my problem wasn't with Yoko.
	My problems was with John bringing her around.
	No, I'm going to leave that up to you.
	You're good at that.
	Okay, Dan, thanks for coming on the show.
	Thank you, sir.
	Cheers.
	Take care.
	You know what we should do?
	We're talking about Michael Graves doing a concert.
	Let's get Graves on the line and ask him.
	Because that's more evidence that this was not planned.
	If they had a concert set up, they're going to go back to a party.
	Because I remember hearing something like, we can't have our guns in D.C. So let's make sure the after party is somewhere where we can have our guns.
	Let's be in Virginia.
	Mr. Graves, are you there, sir?
	Yes, sir.
	Here I am.
	Just short and sweet, we're running low on time, but I was just talking to Dan Hall, Joe Biggs' lawyer, and the challenge with this whole case is to prove that they weren't conspiring to do this, and it was spontaneous.
	And then I just said to him, wait a minute, they had planned to go see Michael Graves do a show in Virginia at like 3 p.m.
	Is that true?
	Yeah, on January 5th, I hooked up with Rufio.
	Biggs was on a plane coming in.
	Everybody was getting their stuff together to move into an Airbnb.
	We were thinking about doing the whole concert thing on the night of the 5th, and it got messed up.
	We figured it got messed up because we didn't know where anybody was.
	Enrique had been arrested.
	So we said, let's do it for January 6th.
	This way, after everybody does what they were going to do in the morning, I had some stuff to do.
	We were going to hook back up in the afternoon and just hang out and party to the night.
	And I was going to play a concert for everybody, specifically to keep everybody, you know, I wanted to keep everybody off the streets and out of trouble.
	And we thought that that was a good idea.
	That was the plan.
	That was the plan, was to go back to the Airbnb.
	And I was going to play, and everybody was going to hang out.
	And were particular times discussed?
	I don't remember talking about particular times.
	The fifth, it was going to be like 7, 8 o'clock, but then it just didn't work out.
	Am I crazy or do I remember a flyer or some kind of thing that said like, Michael Graves, rocking out, blah, blah, blah.
	Well, I was, I played over on, it was Latinos for Trump stage on the morning of the 6th.
	So again, we really didn't, we were all going to rendezvous back at the Airbnb after, you know, after the whole march, after the president was done speaking.
	Everybody was going to march to the Capitol, and then we were going to rendezvous back.
	But things were so, got so out of control so quick that that didn't happen.
	Rufio didn't, I couldn't even get in touch with Rufio because he didn't have his phone.
	Amazing.
	Have you been subpoenaed?
	That's how coordinated we were, Gavin.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Have you been subpoenaed or hassled by the FBI?
	No, nobody's asked me anything.
	I gave an affidavit to Rufio's lawyers, and again, I spoke to Biggs' lawyer about my involvement.
	But no, nobody's spoken to me.
	All right.
	Well, fantastic, because I think you're a human piece of evidence.
	Thanks for coming on the show, man.
	Thanks, Gavin.
	Cheers.
	And James O'Keefe is in the studio.
	Welcome, James.
	Hello, Gavin.
	Good to have you here.
	Now, we're just talking about the cost of all this litigation.
	We've got like 700 people who basically need half a million each.
	So we've got $300 million needed to defend Gen 6.
	I mean, I'm speaking on the very outside of the maximum.
	That's a dollar per American.
	And I don't think your average Joe realizes how expensive litigation is.
	Like, it must eat up a massive part of your budget.
	Yeah, I mean, we've spent maybe even $2 million to get to jury verdict.
	So I would say half a million is a low ball estimate if you want to actually fight an appeal.
	I mean, yeah, we have about a third of our budget on litigation.
	We haven't lost.
	But what's ironic to me about the whole incident is that they are trying to say you're not allowed to crowdsource fund on GoFundMe and these other pages.
	But the Constitution guarantees a right to a public defender, self-defense, you know, defense in court.
	So people do underestimate how expensive this stuff is and litigation, and you can win, but millions of dollars.
	Yeah, and when you're up against the state, they have unlimited funds.
	There should be a thing where if you beat the state, they then have to pay your legal bills.
	That's not the way it is in the United States.
	That's the way it is in other countries.
	In one case that we were, civil case, I was involved in North Carolina.
	It went to a jury verdict, and the plaintiff was suing me for defamation because I quoted someone.
	That's typically what they do.
	Yeah, that's very tascination.
	You might ask, well, how the hell did that get past summary judgment?
	Why did that even go to a trial?
	And at jury verdict, right before the jury came out of the box to issue the judgment, the federal judge gaveled the case and said, this is completely ridiculous.
	He said, if someone sued Mike Wallace, now deceased from 60 Minutes, for the same things they're suing O'Keefe for, everyone in the courtroom would laugh.
	But because it's James O'Keefe, it somehow got this far.
	But I had to litigate for two, three years.
	I had to go through depositions.
	I had to do all this stuff just to get to that point in the trial.
	And then it was dismissed at the last minute.
	And the people who sued me didn't have to pay my bills.
	They did have to pay some administrative fees, like tens of thousands of dollars, which is something.
	So we made them pay.
	And that deterred other people from suing me in the future.
	And that must have cost a fortune.
	Yeah, probably around $2 million.
	And I could have settled the case for $50,000, $100,000, most likely.
	But on principle, I wanted to make sure that I was doing the right thing.
	That's the only way this can end, is people going to trial and fighting to the end.
	Because all of these settlements and all of these plea deals, they end up furthering this law affair where people are punishing others with no intention of going to court.
	That's right.
	He'll just empty his bank account by waging war.
	And you saw that with the Nick Sandman, the kid with the Native American guy.
	He settled with the Washington Post.
	Now, he sued the Post for defamation, and he actually had a great case, but he settled out of court, not for $250 million, as was reported.
	That's what he sued for.
	He probably settled for a relatively insignificant.
	He probably got $100,000.
	Something like that.
	And because he probably wasn't a fighter as much as Rittenhouse was.
	So when Rittenhouse sues for defamation, I hope he doesn't settle out of court.
	I hope he deposes NBC News in the Washington West because it's the depositions where you get to see discovery, you depose them on videotape.
	That's when you can really expose them.
	Yeah.
	Well, that's what I was trying to do with the SPLC, and the judge is just sitting, it's just sitting on the judge's lap.
	But when these people settle, it encourages others to do the same kind of harassment.
	And it becomes this endless nightmare.
	And the problem then, you go, okay, the Sandman probably didn't have enough money to pursue it, right?
	Okay, then we crowdfund.
	But when the left can crowdfund for Antifa or anything and raise millions, we are not allowed to.
	We're constantly kicked.
	I think Give, Send, Go is the only place left.
	Give, send, go is what I'd recommend.
	Our whistleblowers have raised half a million dollars each or thereabouts, which is pretty damn good.
	So I would recommend that.
	Yes, litigation is very expensive, and there are very few people.
	I'm one of the only chairmen of any media company you will have ever met who has never really settled a lawsuit.
	And it's cost me unbelievable amounts of money, but you're right, Gavin.
	If you litigate it all the way to a jury verdict and then are willing to appeal it and you're in the right, you'll probably win.
	Most people think the American justice system is totally corrupt, but I don't actually believe that.
	I think it's actually the one branch of government which is less corrupt than any other.
	The federal judge in New York that ruled for a special master over the FBI, which is a very rare thing to be granted, that was an Obama-appointed federal judge.
	Oh, really?
	Yes, in New York, a federal southern district of New York.
	And you're talking about the guy who said, give James O'Keefe his stuff back.
	This was a federal judge who ordered the FBI to stop rummaging through my phone and ordered what's called a special master, which is effectively a babysitter over the FBI, so that those prosecutors no longer have that possession.
	I've got to litigate this in motions.
	I haven't been charged with anything.
	But what I'm trying to say to you is you have to be willing to fight them in court all the way to the end, which is very important in this day and age.
	Amazing.
	Thanks for coming on the show, James.
	Thank you.
	Stay off social media tomorrow.
	If it happens to be.
	And that's our show.
	No calls.
	Sorry.
	Maybe we'll do calls.
	Actually, tomorrow we're taking off, and there's going to be two chicks in here.
	It's going to be called Girl Talk.
	Brand new show.
	Two very sexy women are going to be taking over the show.
	And I assume we're trying to do the barstool sports thing where we have chicks.
	So they'll be talking about boys and hair and fashion and showing montages.
	I might come by and just talk about midgets.
	And if you could fuck one.
	I might help them with the tech, show them the couple buttons to use or whatever.
	Oh, women are too stupid to handle tech?
	Yeah.
	My experience has been you and Joe Tonelli, it's been all males handling the controls, and I've seen nothing but errors from both men.
	So why don't we let women with a daughter?
	I do believe that women are des future.
	So maybe you're right.
	Yeah.
	Like Paul Fig, the guy who did Ghostbusters, says, women are actually funnier than men.
	I believe women are stronger than men.
	Look at all these athletes we see winning top female bodybuilders, swimmers.
	Women are breaking records.
	They're better than men in every way.
	Ready for this one?
	I think women have nicer penises than men.
	That's true.
	I had a conversation with Crip Daddy about that earlier today.
	You know what I do on Father's Day?
	I give a woman a rose because they're better fathers than men are.
	It should be Mother's Day and Father's Day, but...
	But this is going to sound blasphemous.
	I think women are better than Jesus Christ.
	That is blasphemous.
	Sorry.
	I know that it stings my Catholic beliefs, but I honestly believe the worst woman in the world is better than people.
	Even that G's Louise woman, she's better than Jesus.
	Better than God.
	Women are better than God.
	Women are God.
	Woman is God.
	I don't know.
	I like to quote Norm McDonald when it comes to women.
	What's that?
	Man, who's funnier than Sarah Silverman?
	Besides any other dude.
	Anyway, folks, that's our January 6th special.
	I hope you enjoyed it.
	We worked very hard to bring it to you.
	You only get one January 6th a year.
	That chick Molly, I was trying to get her on.
	She goes, can we just do tomorrow?
	I go, look at your calendar.
	It's January 6th.
	Kind of a big day.
	You don't want to talk about it on January 7th.
	We'll talk about it next year on next January 6th.
	I wonder how the world will have changed then.
	Biden will still be president.
	What the fuck?
	It feels like he's been president for three terms.
	And it's been, what, a year?
	But yeah, we're all on the same page on this.
	And the reason it's important, even to people outside of America that are watching this episode, is this is what happens to the justice system.
	This is what happens in our clown world when optics dominate truth.
	And media, fake news, bullshit leaves men in prison.
	We know what January 6th was.
	Every sane American knows that it was an unfortunate piece of vandalism and trespassing.
	Obstruction and all that shit is garbage.
	It's horseshit.
	It's a lie.
	This was the meandering.
	It was a guy on his phone.
	Yes, people were killed.
	Patriots were murdered by police.
	And right now, their rights are being murdered by this cabal of media, a corrupt justice system, corrupt prosecutors.
	I mean, the media and the justice system have colluded to destroy these people's lives in the name of hurting Trump.
	The modern left is a crazy ex-girlfriend, and she's outside your house right now with a brick in her hand, and her hair's all like messy and kind of dreaded, and she's twitching one eye, and there's makeup running down her face.
	That's what we're up against, folks.
	But we'll win because boys are stronger than girls.
	Get fired, get in trouble, be brave, and never stop fighting.
	The only way we're going to truly achieve things is when that demands face with each other.

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