GabCast Bellgab.com - 18 June, 2018

All Episodes

Previous Next

June 18, 2018 - GabCast Bellgab.com

01:21:19

18 June, 2018

18 June, 2018 ---------- On this episode, Dave Schrader of Midnight In The Desert and Darkness Radio joins the show.

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	This is the Gabcast, a podcast about bellgab.com.
	Call us now, 573-837-4948.
	That number again, 573-837-4948.
	And now, here's the Gabcast.
	All right, it's the Gabcast.
	If you want to be on the show tonight, the number to call 573-837-4948.
	It's 573-837-4948.
	I go by Liberace on Bell Gab.
	This is a podcast about BellGab.com.
	Liberace, that's me.
	I am the founder of Bellgab, an internationally revered musical recording artist, artist behind such internationally loved songs such as In Nye, Don't Treat Keith This Way, Midnight in the Cuck Shed, and supposedly more to come.
	Hi, Dave Schrader.
	How you doing, buddy?
	I'm doing great.
	Thanks for having me on.
	Well, you paid the appropriate amount of money, and now you're on the show.
	$32.76.
	Well spent, my friend.
	Well spent.
	It was 67 cents, but you're close.
	Either way, again, if you want to be on the show, we're not going to take calls just yet, but you can write down the number.
	It's 573-837-4948.
	Dave, you must be, I would say, just looking from the outside of the box inward, you seem to me like one of the most busy people I've ever seen behind a microphone.
	Although, granted, I've never seen you behind the microphone, but I assume you're behind one.
	And you are remarkably busy.
	You're doing Midnight in the Desert.
	You're doing Darkness Radio.
	What else are you doing?
	Isn't there something else?
	Am I missing something?
	And I do a show called True Crime Tuesday.
	And that's actually, that's been one of my primary introductions to you because I was listening to the episode you did about the golden stake killer, which I was at home alone, lying in bed, sort of attempting to take a nap while I was listening to that.
	And I just turned into a complete flake as I was listening to that.
	Every little creep in the every little creaky sound in the house.
	I think the wind was blowing.
	It was causing the tree to cast a shadow on the window.
	So I really just, someone described my scening, my singing in the chat room just now as eunuch-like.
	And I would say at that moment, yes, I did become something of a eunuch listening to that show.
	It scared the hell out of me.
	But it's, I guess.
	Yeah, the true crime stuff gets into my head much worse than anything that we've done in the paranormal.
	And, you know, I've been doing the paranormal show for 12 years with Darkness Radio and Beyond the Darkness.
	And then I did five years on Coast to Coast AM.
	And then to start doing true crime, we just, it was weird.
	We had done some shows that had, you know, that were true crimes that had a weird paranormal slant to vampire killers and, you know, just weird little Ouija board murders and things like that.
	And people responded like crazy.
	So Tim and I discussed, well, you know what?
	What if we start focusing one day a week on true crime?
	And we both were a little reluctant to jump into it.
	And then we jumped into Tuesdays and the numbers went flying on Tuesdays with that.
	They loved the change up.
	We had a few purists that were pissed that we weren't continuing to do paranormal five days a week, but we liked it.
	The audience seemed to take to it.
	But those have gotten into my head.
	And there's been a few episodes while on air.
	I'm just completely unnerved, sick to my stomach, and more terrified than I've ever been talking to people that thought they were possessed or alien clones.
	The reality of what man can do to me is much more horrifying.
	That's right, because paranormal is para.
	True crime is actually normal.
	There's no ambiguity.
	There's no debate as to the merits of it.
	These are factual events that occurred.
	And it is a window into just exactly how animalistic we can be and how horrible human beings can be.
	And how, despite the illusion of safety that we all think we have or that we all feel in our day-to-day lives, really horrible people exist out there and they do really horrible things to otherwise innocent people.
	And it's kind of like I would think doing a show like that, it kind of, I used to be a 911 dispatcher.
	I was a medical dispatcher.
	And the number of calls, that job really screwed with my head.
	And one of the facets of that job that really screwed with my head were just the sheer abundance of people calling in having had seizures.
	It just blew my mind how many people are out there having seizures.
	With the number of calls I took on a routine basis of with people having seizures, you would think that you could just go to the store on any random day and you're going to see a minimum of two seizures on your way to the bread aisle.
	And we may have to recalculate to figure out how many more seizures you're going to see on your way to the cash register.
	I mean, it really started to screw with my head.
	And then you're sitting in this room surrounded by all these monitors.
	And the perception is, I don't know how factual this is, but the common knowledge, the conventional wisdom says that if you're surrounded by a bunch of monitors, that can make you even more predisposed to having seizures.
	And I literally started becoming fearful of having a seizure.
	That's how much this job screwed with my head.
	And I'm not a neurotic person necessarily.
	I think I'm pretty normal and well-adjusted, but it really started screwing with my head.
	And I think that's kind of akin to what you would go through hosting a true crime show.
	Well, you know, it's tough for me because, you know, I've got kids and I hear some of the atrocities that take place and it's unnerving to me.
	And it gives you that sense that nobody's safe and it's everybody's.
	I mean, God, there's, I just realized this.
	You know, Ashton Kutcher, the actor, his girlfriend was murdered while he was dating her by the chiller killer, the Los Angeles ripper or Hollywood ripper.
	And he has dedicated his life to finding trafficking and shutting down traffickers, sexual traffickers.
	He's now trying to shut down the child pornography on the web.
	So I give credit to that.
	But when you start hearing all the people that have been touched by murder and true crime, it's really fascinating to me.
	Just as a throwaway one night on the air, I said, you know, if you knew a murderer, email me, daviddarknessradio.com.
	I just, we'd like to share your story.
	And if you want to share them with us, I had about 200 emails come in.
	And then more people would be like, I would listen to that segment.
	I was like, that's crazy.
	And then it hit me.
	I know a murderer.
	And people were calling.
	We actually had during our live show, we had a gentleman that had come into contact with John Gacy and ended up not going away with him that night.
	And he eluded that, you know, that issue.
	Another one that had called in that was with Ted Bundy.
	And you just don't know who's listening, but you realize how small this world really is when so many people are touched by murder.
	And I meant in the case of not just a drunk driver, not that that isn't murder, that is horrific, but I meant in the case of premeditated somebody murdered somebody.
	How many people really know a murderer?
	And it's more people than believe that they have ghosts.
	That's the scary part.
	You, by the way, I think they should investigate Ashton Kutcher for that.
	In fact, I recently started, let's investigate Ashton Kutcher for that murder because the public demands it.org.
	I don't think that case is settled.
	Only kidding.
	But you said they ended up not going with Gacy that night.
	Going where?
	He had met John Gacy, and at one point, Gacy was like, oh, do you want to come with me?
	I'll give you a ride.
	Oh, he almost got in the car with him.
	And then it was like, no, you know, no, I'm good.
	And he had been working for Gacy in a side job and then decided not to go.
	And that's when all, you know, he dodged that bullet.
	There's no other way to look at it.
	But there are cases, even in the Gacy case, where there are these strange paranormal phenomena that pop up.
	I mean, one of the kids, he had sent home, one of the, I think it was teenagers, 18, 19-year-old guy, he had sent back to his house to go feed his dogs while they were out.
	The guy got to the door, could hear screams coming from inside.
	There was nobody alive, but he, you know, a lot of people believe this guy believed that they were the spirits screaming out, trying to warn this guy off.
	He took off and never dealt with Gacy again.
	That's on public record.
	You know, he's gone out and talked about that.
	We talked about it on the Ted Bundy episode we did of True Crime Tuesday with, oh, gosh, his name eludes me off the top of my head, but the author who's very into Ted Bundy and has written many books on him.
	I just asked him, I said, you know, the way this story sounds and the things Bundy did, it almost sounds like he's possessed.
	And I don't want to buy into that the devil made me do it because I know people can just be bastards and it has nothing to do with the devil.
	But he said, it's interesting you brought that up.
	I never talk about this aspect because I want people to take my true crime book seriously.
	He said, but at one point during the case, they came over and the defending attorneys started talking in front of Ted that they had just found the body of this little girl that he had murdered.
	And they said his face began to contort and this stench of like sulfur started to rise out of him.
	And again, that's public record.
	Those are his defenders that are talking about this and having this experience.
	And at another point, he had some something else came up he was not happy about.
	And they said he just like bared down and this welt started to raise across his head.
	It's just very unusual to hear these stories, but you realize maybe there is something going on in some of these cases with dark energy interfering with these people.
	Otherwise, you know, we want to all believe there's something demonic involved because you don't want to think people are capable of this.
	And unfortunately, it's true.
	People are capable of this and it is on a more regular basis.
	But then you hear some of these weirder cases where there is this paranormal slant that many people acknowledge and see.
	And it's hard to dismiss.
	It is the, I think one of the things that is so troubling about all of it is the sheer randomness of, I would say, probably an overwhelming majority of it, at least in terms of from the victim's perspective.
	You know, they just went to the wrong place at the wrong time, probably more often than not, and never saw what ended up eventually happening to them.
	Never saw it coming.
	I know a murderer as well.
	In fact, one of my best friends for quite some time turned out to be a murderer.
	This happened in 2000.
	By this point, I was out of contact with him.
	Not to make the show about me.
	You're the guest, Dave, but we're on the subject.
	Why not talk about it?
	It's not about me.
	It's not about me.
	It's about us.
	Let's talk about us.
	What do you think of me?
	Are you alluding to something there?
	I don't know what it could possibly be.
	I'm just saying, this is about us.
	You said I'm not a guest.
	I'm a co-host.
	That's right.
	It's you and me, buddy.
	Well, this was back in 2000.
	By this point, I was out of contact with this friend of mine, and he's convicted on the record.
	His name's Justin Brown.
	It's here in Missouri.
	I'm pretty sure it was in 2000.
	He had a friend named Mark Gill, and this Mark Gill befriended a guy named Ralph Lape.
	Ralph Lape was a single man who lived by himself in a home.
	Mark Gill house sat for Ralph Lape for a period of about two weeks.
	During the course of him house sitting, he found out that Mr. Lape had something on the order of about $120,000 in investments in some sort of an account somewhere.
	So he called my friend up, told him about this.
	My friend went over to the house that Mark Gill was house sitting at.
	Mr. Lape was away fishing at Kentucky Lake from here.
	That's about a three or four hour drive, I suppose.
	They waited for Mr. Lape to come home.
	They awaited his arrival in the garage.
	He got home, closed the garage door.
	They ambushed him in the garage.
	They made him get in the truck.
	They drove about an hour and a half south of here to a cornfield in the middle of nowhere, and they made him dig his own grave and ultimately shot him in the back of the head and buried him there in a shallow grave.
	And then eventually the police showed up at the home of my buddy and began sweating him down.
	He squealed like a pig.
	He told them everything they wanted to know.
	He totally let everything out.
	And the next thing you know, they're both arrested, each accusing the other of having pulled the trigger.
	But as you know, as the law, in the eyes of the law, if you are an accessory to a crime of that sort, you're charged as if you had pulled the trigger.
	For instance, you rob a bank, someone dies in the course of that robbery, but you were simply the getaway driver.
	You're charged with first-degree murder or whatever the murder charge happens to be, just as the people in the bank are.
	And I think that's, and rightfully so in many cases, as well you should be.
	But I guess the only reason I point that out and mention that story is to say that I think of myself as a pretty normal person.
	I've never been arrested for anything.
	I live a pretty normal life.
	I have a wife and children, but here I am with a friend, and he was a great friend.
	He was very loyal to me.
	I was very loyal to him.
	We were very close for an extended period of time.
	And that is what he wound up doing.
	And I never saw that coming in a million years.
	Although he got into touch with this guy, and I'm sure this guy had a rather significant influence on his life, on my friend's life, and probably in some ways changed him and what he was all about during the course of that time when I had no contact with him.
	And that's, I mean, normal people know these people.
	That's my point.
	I'm sure that there's a significant percentage of people listening to us right now who know a murderer.
	And it's frightening.
	And if that many people know someone who has committed the crime, that means that there is a significant chance that one of us could be touched by that sort of crime as victims.
	Maybe someone we know or us ourselves.
	And that is pretty frightening.
	The horrific nature of some of the things that people do to one another, it really is astonishing and frightening.
	And it makes me lose faith in humanity.
	It's like there are a couple things that really, really make me lose faith in humanity.
	One of those things is as we're talking about crime and what people do to one another, another is there's a genre of porn that's just like absolute public pornography, like people filming porn in supermarkets on buses, in subways, at sporting events.
	That is another thing that just totally makes me lose faith in humanity.
	I'm not a prude or anything, but they make me lose faith in humanity almost on the same level.
	Not quite as badly with the public porn thing, but it's just there's certain things that just make me shake my head and say, you know what?
	We really are, as Bill Hicks once said, the late great comedian Bill Hicks, we are viruses with shoes.
	And we get a little bit uppity from time to time about our elevated status just simply because we're able to build skyscrapers in a systematic way.
	And oh yeah, we split the atom.
	And we get a little bit uppity about our perception of ourselves at times because of that.
	But we have these occasional reminders that perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves, I think.
	No, I agree.
	But come on.
	Reality TV, that to me was the steady decline of civilization right there.
	And I've been a part of reality TV, but I mean, in a lot of the cases with, I don't want to mention it.
	I'll get everybody in the world pissed off at me, the Kardashians.
	But there's shows like, you know, The Kardashians.
	I can't even think of a name of any of them right now.
	The Kardashians, those are the shows that get on my nerves, and I can't believe people are so addicted to watching them or honey boo-boo and silly shows like that.
	And that, to me, is what makes me question where humanity is really going.
	And then imagine people with their faces stuck in a phone while watching one of those shows.
	It's just like, okay, you know what?
	Surely you know somebody with a gun.
	Just go end it right now because you have punched out as far as being a participant in humanity is concerned.
	I do have a concern about that.
	I think that we've broken from the vein of communication and humanity with what's going on.
	We can reach each other quicker than we ever could in the past with all of this technology.
	I can send a message and have somebody in Australia get it within seconds and carry on a conversation literally halfway across the world.
	And I can have 5,000 friends on Facebook and 70,000 on Twitter.
	But the reality of it, having real conversations and interacting, you go to restaurants and a whole family, and we've been guilty of it ourselves at our dinner table from time to time.
	Everybody's got their face in a phone and we're not really creating memories anymore with each other.
	And it's all this kind of disconnect.
	And I wonder if that's, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong with this.
	I think there's been a steady increase in violence.
	And it could just be because the news likes to report if it bleeds, it leads.
	And we hear it more now often.
	But it sure seems like things are just getting darker.
	And I wonder if it's because we've now got this kind of attitude that we can do what we want, say what we want, because we can do it online at any time and you can walk away from it.
	And you don't have to look at somebody in the eyes when you say something hateful and hurtful.
	I wonder if that's robbing part of our humanity.
	I know people in my personal life who think that because they go on Facebook and post some sort of a status update, that that constitutes having had an interaction with me.
	So they don't need to text me about anything.
	They don't need to call me about anything.
	They don't need to converse with me or engage with me because they posted a status update.
	And that represents a communication, a reaching out.
	And I'm so sick of people like Mark Zuckerberg who can't get in front of a camera quickly enough to tell everybody about how social is.
	It's connecting people.
	Social is bringing people together.
	And it's helping people to understand the hopes and dreams of one another.
	And it's building bridges that previously didn't exist.
	All of this just, it's not even language, in my opinion.
	It doesn't really mean anything half of what he says.
	So theoretically, he's right.
	It has opened up and allowed people that might be shut-ins or introverts that have a hard time being social become social.
	But it's a disconnect in the humanity factor.
	So, you know, that's what I was saying.
	I know there are both sides of this.
	And I can see that in some cases, it's really good for people that just have a hard time communicating in person.
	But when you weigh the good and the bad, I just, I often think that there's a lot worse, a lot more negative that comes from this.
	But again, maybe I'm just old-fashioned and miss the days of sitting around talking with people instead of 42-character mention, you know, and nobody will pick up their phone anymore, but they'll respond immediately to texts.
	I don't get that phenomenon either.
	We really are sounding like a couple of cremudgens.
	I was going to say, I sound like the old guy shaking my fist on the front lawn.
	And you kids, stay off my yard with your rock and roll music.
	But I just worry because I'm a dad and I'm a grandfather, and I just hope there's going to be a better future for everybody than that.
	Well, it gives the shut-in access to some level of sociability, but it also closes off the need for them to pursue true, genuine human interaction because it fills a void that otherwise wouldn't be filled, or at least in an artificial way, it fills that void.
	And so then they are less incentivized to go out and have real, meaningful human interactions.
	It's amazing to me you talk about speaking with somebody in full high-definition video on the other side of the world.
	Meanwhile, your spouse is sitting next to you and hasn't had a real interaction with you in a week.
	Has she been complaining to you about that?
	Well, usually it just involves kitchen utensils becoming airborne.
	There's very little speaking about frustrations.
	It just manifests itself in the form of things being thrown.
	And at that point, it's message received, honey.
	I understand.
	But I think that we it's sort of like a new pharmaceutical, something that has just hit the market like a Viox, you know, that makes its way onto the market and seems like it's going to be a great thing for humanity.
	Oh, hey, it's a painkiller that Viox that doesn't have habit-forming tendencies and all these other benefits.
	And oh, guess what?
	Fast forward a few years.
	Sorry, it was stopping people's hearts.
	We're sorry.
	We just found out it was stopping people's hearts.
	It was killing people.
	And I kind of wonder as we fast forward 20 years and look at what the social media, quote-unquote, revolution, but more specifically, ubiquitous access to the sum total of human knowledge and effortless communication in the palm of our hands in the form of mobile devices.
	Fast forward 20 years.
	Oh, I really wonder how that's going to affect people, particularly people who have grown up since birth with these devices.
	There's all those sentient beings just communicating through telepathic waves anyway.
	Yeah, forget the presidential physical fitness program.
	There's not going to be one person who can do a single sit-up anywhere.
	Nobody will have had sunshine.
	That's not true.
	Sometimes you've got to do that sit-up to get the remote at the end of your bed.
	Don't lie.
	I stand corrected.
	I'm Michael Van Dieven.
	You guys have a good night.
	We'll see you later.
	I mean, I don't want to sound curmudgeonly.
	I am 38 years old, and I think I'm an old soul if you believe in that kind of crap.
	I've always felt like I'm kind of an old soul.
	And I don't mean to pull out the wind catchers and the crystals, but I do feel that way about myself.
	And so I'm a little bit reluctant to jump on board.
	For instance, I just kind of started to accept Nirvana about five years ago.
	You mean the concept or the band?
	The band.
	I'll never accept the concept.
	I'm that cremudge.
	I just, you know, it's like these musical acts, you've got to fast forward a solid 24 years before, a solid 20 years before I'm going to begin to accept them.
	And so I think that maybe there's a little bit of that in me affecting my view of social media and mobile devices and everybody's accessibility as those go.
	But this can't be good for humanity.
	You're right.
	People in restaurants, they don't speak to one another.
	They don't look at one another.
	Then again, I will say, I will say on the other side, people piss and moan about this.
	And then you see that meme where someone wrote at the top something to the effect of, you remember the days before cell phones when everyone would talk to each other and we had human interaction?
	And then it's a picture of like an entire restaurant full of people all staring at a newspaper in the 1950s.
	So that's true.
	Maybe we are going to be okay.
	You know what?
	That meme just totally flipped my view.
	I retract everything I just said.
	Me too.
	Thank God for social media.
	So how are you enjoying Midnight in the Desert?
	I love it.
	I've been having a great time.
	I mean, if you were not enjoying it, would you tell me if it were just a big pain in the ass and a lot of work?
	Oh, sure.
	Sure.
	You know, when Keith and I first talked about it, and I'm going to get deep with you here.
	I have no skin in the game in this deal with Keith thing.
	He's been a really nice guy to me since this started.
	I literally emailed him after art had passed away and I saw all of the story unfolding on social media.
	And I just said, hey, Keith, I'm really sorry about the passing of art.
	And I'm sorry things seem to be kind of spinning out of control.
	And Keith was very gentlemanly about it and said, well, I just want to try to get things back on track.
	I want to get my host back on.
	I want to get this running.
	I wish I could put in a guest host.
	And I said, well, if you need a fill-in guest host, you can certainly lean on me.
	I do what I could to help.
	And he said, well, she doesn't really want a guest host.
	She doesn't.
	I'm going to give her another week to try to get around and do this.
	I understand it's tough.
	And he was very cool about everything.
	He wanted her to step back in.
	He wanted to give her that opportunity.
	And like I said, he was telling me this from the get-go because he, and I said, well, do you have somebody in mind if you need to replace her going forward?
	And he said, no, I'm not at that point because I don't want that to happen.
	I just want to get things back on track and get rolling.
	And I said, all right, well, if you need any help, let me know.
	I'd be happy to chat with you.
	And if you need me to fill in for a night or two until she's healthy and back in broadcasting form, let me know.
	And he contacted me that last weekend and he said, I've given her every chance I can, Dave.
	I don't know what more to do.
	We've got people that have signed on and are paying to be members to listen to shows.
	And I'm playing shows for them that they can already hear in the archives.
	And I really need to present this.
	Would you have an interest in stepping in as the new host?
	Or at least taking over till she comes back if she decides she want to.
	And I said, well, yeah, he goes, I'm going to give her till Monday.
	And then, you know, Monday came and went and it didn't connect again.
	And then he said, would you step in and do this?
	And I said, sure.
	And he again probed me with the idea, would you be open to Heather, you know, coming back at some point or maybe being a weekend host?
	And at that point, you know, I am like, whatever, man, if that's what you need and that's going to make you feel better, you know, let's do that and we'll get started.
	And he said, okay.
	And we chit-chatted.
	And then I watched the Venom keep flying.
	And I heard my side, you know, and I got to say, the venom on her part.
	Right.
	I saw the venom.
	Well, not just from her, but everybody and kind of her encampment and the people that she was associating with.
	No, everybody else was lovely.
	It was only her, Dave.
	Yeah.
	And I stepped in and I said, all right.
	And he specifically said, he goes, I really want you to think about this, Dave, because you're going to come in and take a lot of heat because you're not her and you're not art.
	And I said, I understand that.
	And he goes, I don't know if you do.
	You know, people are very fervent about their fandom.
	And, you know, we're nowhere near in membership where we were when art was, but we expected that.
	And he said, but, you know, you're going to take a hit.
	People are going to come after you.
	And I said, I've been doing the show for 12 years.
	I've had people throw allegations at me for 12 years.
	And when you're doing what you do well and you have people tuning in and checking you out, you're going to make enemies.
	I've already got people that don't like me.
	And I started doing Coast to Coast and I would get venom and vitriol from listeners.
	Hear no art bell.
	Stop trying to be like Art Bell.
	You suck.
	You sound too much like George Norrie.
	Why aren't you more like George Norrie?
	I miss Ian Punnett.
	When's Ian Punnett coming back?
	You suck and should die.
	Where's John B. Wells?
	You took his job, you bastard.
	So I'm used to taking people's jobs, apparently.
	And I just said, no, that's, you know, let's just work it out and I'm fine.
	And that's good because it fits for what I want to do.
	I want to be home with my kids during my day.
	I want to spend time with my family.
	And if this is a job that allows me to work for my home studio and I can still do the radio show I love doing and talk about the topics I love and we can kind of expand a little bit beyond what I do on Beyond the Darkness, then let's go for that.
	You know, I don't really perceive that there's been necessarily that much venom toward you.
	Am I wrong about that?
	I mean, it is my perception that, yes, there was some, but it seems to be confined to a relatively small number of highly vocal people.
	And that's about it.
	I mean, I don't see the messages you get behind the scenes, but at least it was, you know, I would say it was on par with the crap I took when I started filling in on Coast to Coast after John B. Wells was released and Ian had left.
	But what a lot of people didn't realize, John B. Wells had recommended me to be his regular fill-in.
	John B. Wells and I hit it off really well.
	I had him on our show.
	He had me on his, and we just connected and he was a really good guy about it.
	And then when they let him go and then Ian was retiring because of his tinnitus, Ian was our Minnesota-based guy.
	And he really hit them up and he said, you know, you're kind of looking over a guy.
	He's already part of your radio program platform.
	You know, he's on the iHeartRadio and part of Premiere's family.
	I think you should look at Dave Schrader.
	And then they stepped up and said, all right, because I had filled in once or twice and then they just started booking me two to four times a month.
	And I took over and started doing that on a regular basis for five years.
	And, you know, I took a lot of angry shots.
	But, you know, just on the other side, I'd get just as many emails telling me you should take over coast to coast.
	And, you know, Norrie sucks, Punnett sucks, Nap sucks.
	Everybody sucks.
	But, you know, you're never going to make everybody happy.
	So you just do what you do.
	And that's all I can, you know, figure out.
	And I've taken some anger and irritation over the whole Heather thing.
	But, you know, like I said, hey, I wish her well.
	I wish her all the success.
	Do you really?
	I do, because you know what?
	If she's successful, then there's no more crap.
	There's no more flap.
	If she's banging in the wind and twisting and causing more drama and is an issue, then it's problems for everybody.
	And I'd say that.
	So you wish her well in an almost self-serving way, then, Dave.
	Exactly.
	But I'm fully aware of that.
	But, you know, it's the same kind of thing.
	I used to do live events, these huge events where I'd go all over the United States with celebrities from the different paranormal TV shows.
	And then people started popping up all the time.
	And they're like, aren't you pissed?
	I said, no, I wish them success.
	And they're like, why?
	I said, because if they screw up, it's going to reflect poorly on all of us.
	So I want them to succeed.
	And to let you know, as things were going, the day before Heather changed the name of her show, I gave Keith a call and I said, I have an idea.
	And he said, what's that?
	And I said, you want to put your money where your mouth is with this whole Heather thing and just say goodbye and part ways.
	And he goes, yeah.
	And I said, I understand you've got the investment of Midnight in the Desert.
	You own the website.
	You own the topic.
	You own all of that.
	I said, I understand her point of wanting to hold that bit of art and that she's got those voice bits.
	I said, what if we offered to take the snippets that Art left for her?
	And we just edited out in the desert.
	So Art would be saying, you're listening to Midnight with Heather Wade.
	Here's the number to call, blah, blah, blah.
	I said, then she's only giving up a small portion.
	She still gets to use Art's voiceovers.
	And I said, I'm not, you know, I'm not tied to the wormhole.
	I'm not tied to the time travelers, meaning the concept of those words.
	And I said, you know, why can't we just call our listeners the Legion and they can, you know, hit me up through the paranormal portal?
	And he kind of laughed and he goes, well, you don't think that's going to change the dynamic?
	I said, the show's already changed.
	You know, I'm a different host than Art and Heather.
	And I'm trying to comply.
	We've, you know, people didn't like the kind of techno music.
	So we got some spooky music and people stopped complaining.
	You know, it's financially just not feasible to do licensed music on a podcast because it'll break you financially.
	And especially if you're posting it in the podcast form.
	But I said, I said, why don't we do this and just let's just tell her.
	Let's just reach out to her in a public way and just say, hey, Heather, all you need to do is drop in the desert from the name of your show.
	You can have the time travelers.
	You can have the wormhole, all the stuff you love and your audio bits.
	And it's all going to still make sense.
	Let's just do this.
	And then to everybody, I think, surprise, the next day she came out with Kingdom of Nye with Heather Wade.
	And I thought, that's great.
	All right.
	Fantastic.
	You know, she stepped up.
	She did the right thing for herself to avoid a lot of BS.
	And I think Keith's shown that he was a man of his word.
	If she chopped the name, he'd stop interfering with her trying to progress using the name.
	And it was a problem because you have guests that Michelle is trying to book for our show and she's trying to book for her show.
	And guests are now confused because, well, wait, I just agreed to do Midnight in the Desert on Tuesday.
	And now I'm getting called to do Midnight in the Desert on Thursday.
	Whose show am I going to do here?
	Oh, no, we're Bart L's Midnight in the Dessert.
	We're sorry about the confusion.
	So that was starting to be a pain in the butt.
	But everything worked out.
	And, you know, I've had people, and I'll bring this point up.
	I'm going to be very honest with you about this and the listeners, where I do wish her well.
	I have no interest in partnering with her on the Dark Matter Digital Network.
	I have no interest in her becoming a weekend host or a fill-in host.
	Why?
	As I'm pretty sure she doesn't as well.
	But here's the thing.
	Shortly after she changed her name on the show, she made a post.
	It's so sad that it turned out this way.
	They cut an hour off the show too.
	What?
	Dave can't keep up with four hours a night, five nights a week?
	Pussy.
	And everybody started showing me that everybody wanted me to do a public admonishment of this.
	And instead, I just sat down and I jotted her a note on Facebook.
	I said, come on, Heather, you're better than this.
	Taking a shot at me and asking if I can keep up.
	And I told her at that point, listen, I'm the host of Midnight five days a week.
	I have six kids at home that I get up early with each morning.
	I host a weekend show, a true crime show, and I travel the world with my listeners.
	I keep up just fine.
	So there's no need to take public shots.
	I've been respectful to you and wished you well and thanked you on air for your work you've done and was about to post a public message of congratulations on kickstarting your new show.
	So don't stoop, stand tall and be an example.
	Best of luck with Kingdom of Nye.
	And then I signed it.
	And I thought, you know, this is good.
	You know, I've kind of put it out there.
	She knows I have no ill will.
	And I got to be honest with her, I was really surprised.
	I got a response from her one paragraph.
	And it said, I could say plenty about how disgusting this is.
	I made one tiny comment.
	I have been publicly trashed by anyone who feels like it.
	Lay off.
	You can't handle one little dig.
	You're in the public.
	Get used to it.
	You have no business being where you are, and you know it.
	No more talking to me.
	I will not respond to you.
	Such a tough girl.
	Well, I thought it was kind of funny that she's going to be the one to say you can't handle a dig.
	You're in the public.
	Get used to it.
	Yet she just got done complaining that people were taking shots at her.
	So I was like, oh, whatever.
	Okay.
	And I said, wow, I guess the rumors weren't overblown about your drama.
	You legitimately are self-destructive.
	I didn't attack you.
	I tried to point out to you that you should rise above this.
	And I want to wish you good luck and best to you.
	And for the record, I have not trashed you.
	I can handle all the digs in the world.
	I was just trying to watch your back and give you perspective.
	And for the record, I am where I am because I'm a very hard worker and I don't get involved in drama.
	I was trying to show you there is another way.
	And then signed it.
	And then I sent her a screen capture of the Twitter post that I posted saying, Congratulations to Heather Wade for launching her newly revamped show, Kingdom of Nye with Heather Wade.
	May your journey stay true and your bounty be plentiful.
	Forward ho, Dave Schrader.
	Asshole.
	As soon as I sent that to her, she immediately blocked me on Facebook.
	Such a tough girl.
	So tough.
	I thought that was a shame.
	So, you know, in lieu of I tried to be polite and just extend the olive branch, and I watched Keith try to make right by her.
	At this point, I don't feel like it's conducive for us ever to work together.
	It just seems like, you know what, you take your stuff and go do what you're doing.
	We'll continue on doing what we're doing here.
	And that should be the end of it.
	And this will be the last time I publicly talk about any of this.
	So it'll be done.
	But that's where you're at.
	Okay, fine.
	Be mad at Keith, but to act that way toward you, you're just put in the middle of a circumstance that wasn't of your making.
	And what are you going to say?
	No, I can't host that show because it's rightfully Heather's.
	I mean, what are you supposed to do?
	That doesn't make any sense to me.
	You know, doing Darkness Radio, I've had people approach and say, hey, I can get you syndicated, but you got to dump Tim.
	And I've said, we'll just stay working together.
	And, you know, in there, you have an allegiance.
	I could see Tim being mad at me if I dumped him from our show to go do another show.
	I didn't do that.
	I wouldn't do that.
	And, you know, it wasn't like Heather and I had any kind of friendship.
	I had never spoken to her.
	And to be 100% honest, I never once listened to an episode.
	I, like many people, had tuned out once Art Bell quit.
	My fascination was with the legend of the night, Art Bell.
	Right.
	And I followed him to the Dark Matter show.
	I was disappointed when it went away.
	I got the gist of what he was saying, and I felt like he was watching out for his listeners.
	And he came back and did Midnight in the Desert, and things quickly fell apart after eight months.
	And then I, you know, it was a shame.
	And, you know, maybe it was all in the best intentions, but it was just, it's hard, you know, doing a show five nights a week.
	I don't think he wanted to do it.
	I don't think he wanted to do it from the beginning.
	And as I think he liked the concept of it, and I think he likes the run up coming back.
	Yeah.
	He likes the excitement and all the speculation.
	And, oh, we've hit a road bump, bumper music.
	Oh, we've hit a road bump.
	Fallout between Art and Keith.
	You know, the suspense of all of that and just the energy around it.
	I think he really enjoyed that.
	But didn't Karen Jackson of K9 and Perump say in an interview, someone said this to me, that she said in an interview that Art would routinely talk to her before Midnight in the desert, each night, almost each night, and say, Holy shit, I don't want to do this show tonight.
	Good grief.
	I really don't want to be doing this.
	And that and just numerous other things have caused me to believe that the stalker thing, while I previously was not on board with people who said that art made the whole thing up, I believed that Art believed what he was saying.
	But now, having learned the things that I've learned, You know, maybe, okay, maybe I'm a little naive.
	I don't know, but I think Art made that up just because of that very fact.
	He just didn't want to do the show.
	And he had to find an escape hatch that allowed him to save some level of face while doing so in a sort of art bellish manner.
	Stalker.
	And I don't even know that he went into it with the concept of, I don't really want to do this, but I think, and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this because I do think Art loved radio.
	You know, my mom was diagnosed with cancer, and that happened in June of 2016.
	And by November, she was gone.
	And we don't know what the story is behind Art's ailments.
	And if I recall properly, it was about a year ago Art was in the hospital and people weren't sure he was going to survive that.
	And if his medical condition is COPD and the back pains and issues he was going through, chronic pain can mess you up.
	And if you're on painkillers, it can even accentuate that more.
	And he may have had the best intentions of wanting to do what he loved to do.
	But once you get into that mix and you start trying to do that grind, it can wear you out.
	And a lot of people think, you're just sitting behind a microphone, jackass.
	What is so tough about this job?
	Trying to push a conversation forward, trying to sound interesting and interested three, four, five hours a night can be tough.
	And if you don't believe me, go listen to a lot of other podcasts out there.
	You'll hear people that are doing it that think it's easy and they're flogging for three to four hours.
	And you don't want to be that person.
	So I, you know what?
	And then you kind of paint yourself into that bill of, I'm Art Bell.
	I'm not going to go out a wussy because of a back pain or not feeling well.
	If I'm going to go out, it's going to go out in some conspiratorial way.
	And I'm not saying that that's what he did, but I'm saying I can even buy into that factor with it.
	And I hope that he found peace before he found peace with his decisions and moved on.
	And I don't know how much of what we hear is true or not in the industry.
	And it's always interesting to me to people come out after somebody's dead to talk about all of the things that they know.
	But it is what it is.
	I'll always respect the guy that he was on the radio and the entertainer that he was.
	But even, and you and I have talked off air, I think it's funny.
	The legend of Art Bell is much bigger in scope than the reality of the man for all the people that tell me, oh, this sucks.
	Art would never talk politics.
	He did talk politics.
	Art would never sit there and waste a show on a celebrity.
	He did talk to celebrities a lot.
	And Art would never do this.
	Art would never do that.
	Art would never do that.
	Art was not always respectful to listeners.
	And I'm like, you better listen on Saturday nights to Somewhere in Time because you talk about a curmudgeonly old man.
	And I'm saying this with respect.
	I adored Art Bell and his working on radio, but he was not always kind to listeners.
	Dude had Gordon Lightfoot on the show for like two or three hours.
	I mean, come on.
	There's not a whole lot Art wouldn't do.
	And yeah, I've seen a lot of that stuff over the years.
	Art wouldn't do this.
	Art wouldn't do that.
	Well, actually, I started listening to Art in about 1992, and he pretty much did everything you're saying he didn't do.
	So, you know, something that strikes me is you get the negativity thrown at you, but I'll bet you the negativity is far exceeded by the number of people who punched out when Art left and are now looking at Midnight in the Desert again as a possible viable entertainment alternative and the overnight for themselves.
	Right.
	And there was, you know, that was one thing when I came in, I asked Keith the numbers.
	And I'm, you know, that's a business deal between the two of us, so I won't release the numbers.
	But, you know, he'd said, this is, this is what we were at, 15,000 or 18,000 when Art really kind of came on.
	And even as he was leaving the show, and it dropped substantially after that, which you understand.
	And it's not a slight against Heather.
	Was just the fact that people, you know, you pay for a steak and you get a, you know, a McRib sandwich.
	There's a difference in what you were looking for.
	So people stepped away.
	And then when Art passed away and people realized he wasn't going to be coming back in any way, shape, or form, we lost.
	We took a big hit.
	And then the announcement that I came on board, it was really nice because within two weeks, not only did we get back up to where it was just before Art died, but it went up another 20% over that.
	So it's, it's, and it's been on a steady increase and incline.
	And that's, you know, I'm sure people are checking in to hear the new guy and see if they like him or not.
	And it'll sway and gain back and forth.
	But hopefully people will come along and we'll have some fun together.
	It's escape radio.
	And, you know, you can't be everything to everybody, as you've seen in the chat rooms.
	You know, if I push too hard, people are like, you're a dick.
	Just I think you're not.
	This is my critique of you.
	I think you are a little bit too open to suggestions from completely random strangers who have no resume entries that would lend to them being in some way qualified to tell you how to run a talk show.
	I think sometimes you're a little bit too open to taking critique and advice and suggestion from people.
	Well, and here's why I found that I'm still, I want to be approachable to my audience as I've been with our show for years.
	I'm not only available out in public, you can see me seven to 10 times a year.
	You can go on long trips with me.
	I try to be accessible that way, but I also like people to know I do hear you.
	And, you know, if you ever listen to the old archives of our show, it was, I'm a different guy than I was when I started 12 years ago.
	I lucked into that opportunity when Tim said, Hey, do you want to do a radio show together?
	And I said, sure, let's do a paranormal show and be kind of the Minnesota equivalent of Coast to Coast.
	We'll be on the hour before them and we'll see where it takes us.
	And what I was at that point to where I am today, I think is leaps and bounds different.
	And part of it is because I listened to what people liked.
	What did they want?
	What did they expect?
	And in some cases, you can't make them happy.
	Like I said, if I push to try to get to the bottom of what somebody's saying, I get yelled at because just let them tell their story.
	This is escapism.
	If I just let people tell their stories, it's like, Schrader, you can't be buying this.
	Why aren't you pushing them on this?
	You know, you should be lighter.
	should be harder you should be a so i just i'll each episode is a different feel to me And it depends.
	A lot of times, I like to work on it like a magnet.
	And if you got a great guest that you can really work well with and you connect and have fun and can push questions and they're open to it, that's great.
	And then there are ones that when you start asking and they start repelling, those are exciting to me too, because it's like always trying to catch that fish and it's always hanging around your bobber, but it's never biting.
	So I like to push those sometimes too and see where it can take us.
	And I think that in those cases, sometimes you get the best.
	And there have been times where I've felt very adversarial towards a guest because I want to get them pinned to something.
	And I should really run a recording after a lot of the shows because I'll tell you, the best compliments I get are not always from the listeners.
	It's from the guests who at the end of the show will go, you know, I've been doing interviews about this topic for 30 years.
	I've been on major national television programs and newspapers and magazines.
	That was the best interview I've ever done.
	And it blows me away.
	And they say, you know, I love that you challenged me.
	I love that you asked questions.
	I love that you showed that you were actually engaged in this conversation with me.
	And although we both didn't get necessarily what we wanted out of each other, you weren't passive.
	You didn't just lay back and you tried to engage this conversation.
	And that's great.
	That's what I love to hear.
	And I love when the audience will tell me, you know, I wanted to know this question and three seconds later you asked it.
	Because that's what my whole goal has been with doing this is trying to entertain people and bring them along with me.
	So it's like the first time I've heard it as well.
	You know, I want to share this with you and I want us to learn together tonight.
	Well, we here at the Michael Van Deeven PR firm would just once like to see you tell someone to go pound it.
	I have.
	I have.
	I've told, I think I've told a total of four or five people to go pound it over the time of my shows.
	One guy was this guy, Ed Azoski.
	And this episode is out there floating around.
	You'll find it.
	It's not on any of our sites right now, but I'm sure somebody's pirated it and it's out there.
	Ed Azoski came on our show and he was this premier paranormal investigator and had some astonishing proof of the afterlife.
	EVP, unlike nobody else, electronic voice phenomenon for people that live in a cave and don't know what that means.
	So I had him on the show.
	He was a two-hour guest.
	Spends the first hour belittling everybody that's ever been on TV and what jackasses they are and they're unprepared and they're no good at investigating and they don't do their due diligence.
	And, you know, they follow for, they fall for anything as paranormal activity.
	And I had people jumping, why aren't you getting on him?
	I said, well, that's his opinion.
	And if he is a really good investigator, maybe he's got points to make in the second half.
	So first half is about laying the foundation and let's hear where he goes.
	It's also about handing him as much rope as he possibly wants to take.
	And then in the second half, are you going to tighten that rope and show me that you are what you said you are?
	Or are you going to drop through the hole and end up hanging?
	And he dropped through the hole like a dead weight in that second half.
	He came out swinging and you got to give him credit for having balls because he had an EVP.
	He had a bunch of me sent to us, but he wanted us to go to the number one EVP.
	We weren't going to work our way up, right?
	This wasn't a countdown show.
	We were going to come out swinging in that second hour.
	So it was a quick reintroduction and kind of going over this.
	And now I'm going to play for you what a real EVP sounds like.
	And he sets the stage and he's in this location and he's investigating and you can hear everybody else's voice.
	And then there's this female voice that comes in and speaks in this unknown dead language.
	And he has had linguists with 40 years of experience that have listened to this and they can't identify the language.
	It's a dead language.
	All right.
	And that's amazing, but that's not the most amazing part of this.
	Okay, I'm with you.
	I'm on the ride.
	What's the most when you play it backwards?
	That's where the message is.
	Because when you play this backwards, you clearly hear her say, it's my baby.
	Save it.
	Wow, that is pretty amazing.
	So forward, it's spoken code.
	I've never heard of that occurring with EVP.
	Right.
	Well, actually, there's a lot of people that buy into that.
	Right.
	And so I'm like, okay, so let's hear this EVP and then the reverse.
	And he set a great stage.
	He told a good story.
	And I sat there at the ready and I closed my eyes in my darkened studio and Tim played the EVP.
	And you could hear the muffled as they're talking in the background.
	And then very clearly, you hear this woman say in almost a Latin-like-esque voice, AVS Media Demo.
	And I went, well, what the hell was that?
	Tim, play that again.
	AVS Media Demo.
	Okay, that's kind of, so I start phonetically typing it in.
	A VIS DA, you know, and I'm just trying to phonetically come up with what it sounds.
	And what do you know?
	There's a company called AVS Media, and they have a demo for their software.
	And then he makes me play it backwards, and I hear the is the baby, it's my baby, save it.
	So I ask him and I go, well, you know, I'm just curious about something, Ed.
	I said, are you familiar with the company AVS Media?
	And he goes, oh, yes, we use their software for recording.
	And Tim and I just looked at each other and I kind of shook my head and I said, so tell me about this again, this dead language.
	Yeah, guys, I've had experts from around the world.
	We thought for five seconds it was Aramaic and it's not even Aramaic.
	You're so blown away, aren't you?
	Just tell me, upload away you are.
	And I said, What it's saying is AVS Media Demo.
	But I will give him.
	You plant that seed in my mind that it's a foreign dead language and it sounded Latin, right?
	AVS Media Demo.
	Oh my God, you're right.
	That is something crazy and foreign.
	And it was so foreign.
	It's in English because the company is based in England.
	And she was just speaking an anacronym and two English words.
	And because we were predisposed to hear this, it was funny.
	So I played it back.
	He got very irritated.
	So during the commercial break, I told Tim, do me a favor, Tim, just record your voice saying AVS Media Demo and play it backwards.
	So he recorded it during the break.
	I bring Ed back on, kind of explain to him.
	And I said, now, so theoretically, if you're right and the message is truly in what she said backwards, then whatever Tim says and plays backwards should be a totally different message.
	Exactly, exactly.
	I said, okay.
	So I said, what I did was I had Tim repeat AVS Media Demo, which is what I think I hear and is called a watermark on your audio file that you have.
	And he's like, well, it's not.
	It's not.
	I've had experts.
	I'm like, okay, I know you had sound engineers and linguists from around the world check this out.
	Nobody can debunk it.
	I did it in 30 seconds on my show.
	I know that's a punch in the butt, but let's just hear this.
	Tim, play it.
	And you hear Tim, AVS Media Demo.
	And then you play it back and you hear Tim, yes, my baby, save it.
	And I go, wow.
	And he goes, you're comparing apples to oranges.
	It's not even the same thing.
	And it's what she said.
	And I said, it's the exact same audio.
	And I tried to calm him down because I felt bad.
	I really did.
	What's this guy's name?
	Ed Azoski.
	A-Z?
	No, O-Z-O-S-K-Y, I believe.
	And I felt bad for him because he hung his career on this.
	You shouldn't feel bad for him because he's obviously not in pursuit of the truth.
	Right.
	But I still feel bad because if he has, here's the deal.
	If you really have people blowing smoke up your hind and you think you've got something and everybody around you is telling you you do, you can't necessarily blame the person totally because everybody's glad handing them around him.
	So I got it and I felt bad, but he just kept on the tear.
	So we went on YouTube and I found a bunch of different audio bits and I tried to show him and I said, listen, I know what you're saying.
	But I said, then you would have to buy into the fact that at every one of these locations around the world, the same ghost is appearing and speaking directly into their microphone.
	And he wouldn't, he just wouldn't hear it.
	And I was an idiot and a charlatan.
	And his last comment was, you'll be nowhere in two years.
	I will continue to travel the world and be a heralded speaker.
	Wow.
	And I don't, I haven't seen him build on anything, and I'm still doing the radio show.
	So I kind of feel like I was vindicated.
	But again, to show you how fickle the audience was, our audience exploded.
	I hung up on the guy.
	That was the end of the show with him.
	And then Tim and I talked about it for the next half an hour and laughed about the fact that he was so vehement about this and how bad it must feel to just watch your career slip away in 30 seconds on somebody's radio show.
	And a week later, we had this guy on who, and I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he does the whole Planet Serpo bit and talks about how we're having this foreign exchange student program, our astronauts for their astronauts, and they go to their planet and they come to our planet and we do all this.
	And as I'm talking to the guy, now remember, I was just heralded a hero for hanging up on this guy because Edizoski was a goof and was wrong and made a complete ass of himself.
	So this guy starts telling me a story, which is fascinating.
	It's an interesting, fun story.
	And then I start seeing the holes in it.
	He found this document, this leaked document online.
	And I go, okay, so if it's a leaked FBI or CIA document, is there a docket number or something on it to identify it as such?
	Well, no.
	I said, well, then how do we know?
	Well, because somebody posted it and said that it was an actual leaked document.
	And I said, well, you know, people post things and say things that aren't, why would people say things that aren't true?
	And I said, I said, do you remember this?
	I did not have sex with that woman.
	And I said, people say things that aren't true all the time.
	And he was livid.
	And I tried to, you know, show him the point of, so your biggest piece of evidence to this entire story is a leaked document that has no ties to anything.
	There's no signature.
	There's no number we can track to see that there's a file missing.
	There's nothing that resonates with this.
	It's just a document you found online because I can go make a document like this and post it and then leave it on the internet for 10 years and then bring it up and show, look at this has been out there for over 10 years.
	And he just couldn't wrap his head around it.
	And then I was a villain.
	Everybody's like, you're just a jerk.
	Look at now you got your power hungry.
	You're hanging up on people and treating them like crap left and right.
	So that's why I said it's impossible.
	But, you know, when you see a glaring loophole like that and you give somebody the length of the rope and they just keep swinging it at you, to me, it's like, all right, we're going to let you go.
	I think this speaks to a broader problem, though, in hosting this type of radio show in the year 2018.
	And that is due to the ease of access as it relates to information.
	I mean, information is ubiquitous.
	It's easily accessible.
	There's no facet of the sum total of human knowledge that you can't have access to if you'll just spend a few moments on a phone or a computer.
	And it seems to me that that was part of the magic that made this sort of show work back when Art was doing it back in the 90s was the fact that we didn't have such easy access to information.
	And it did allow the listener to be transported to a sort of theatrical place that they otherwise couldn't be transported to if they had access to all of this information where they could debunk this guest.
	They could find out he didn't really go to college during the time he said he did, or they could find out that he never lived in this state that he says he lived in, or just all of this crazy stuff, really granular information that people can find in order to poke holes in things that people say.
	And it seems to me that with that mystique, that magic having been taken out of this sort of a broadcast, at least from that perspective, I would think that it would be kind of difficult to sit down every night and do this kind of show.
	It is and it isn't.
	It's still, you know, I do give a lot of it to just, let's just put away disbelief and just have a show tonight.
	Let's talk about the weird.
	Because I don't know about you.
	I'm tired of hearing about the end of the world as we know it.
	I'm tired of hearing about Trump.
	I'm tired of hearing about Trump lovers and Trump haters.
	I'm tired of hearing about how everybody hates everybody.
	I'm tired of hearing about cops hurting civilians and civilians killing cops.
	To me, it's like, all right, you've got that all day long for these next three hours.
	Let's talk about possibilities.
	Let's go someplace weird together and have some fun.
	Because in life, what do you remember most?
	Those weird moments, those weird times that you had with your friends.
	That moment when everything hit the fan and you laughed yourself sick.
	You had a bizarre night.
	That's what I want people to kind of walk away feeling.
	I don't sit there and Google everything that they say.
	Sometimes I do if it sounds crazy or I want to remember to go back to a topic like that.
	Sometimes I don't.
	And I do think it's funny too when you're holding, as the host, I'm held accountable to know everything about everything.
	And people are like, Dave, really?
	You didn't know about the NX factor of the GWRH blood series?
	And I'm like, no, I don't.
	I've got a life and I can't know everything about everything.
	But that's what I rely on you, the listeners.
	And that's why people, why do you even check the chat rooms?
	Because there's smarter people in that chat room than I am.
	And I may not know that question to ask, but you do.
	And there might be somebody smarter popping onto the wormhole who might say, Dave, ask this question, push this Jenga piece through and see if his towers tumble.
	And I love that because it gives me the opportunity.
	And I try to share that wealth.
	I don't say, so I don't pull the Alex Trebek and act all high and mighty when I'm reading somebody else's questions.
	I'll say, all right, Liberace in the chat room wants to know, if you're saying this, couldn't that mean that?
	And I'd rather people know that you came up with that question and that that great point was made by a listener.
	Because, you know, I think that's an important part of the show.
	And hopefully that brings people into the show with us so they feel like they're a part of it and they have a voice.
	And, you know, I laugh too.
	Everybody's like, when are you going to get back to live phone calls?
	I've opened up live phone calls for three weeks.
	Nobody calls in because they're all chatting in the chat room.
	They're calling me on this.
	They're doing that or they're listening to the rebroadcast.
	See, and that's why I have been of a mind to just shut the chat room down altogether because it does disincentivize people to call in.
	It's not helpful.
	If you're doing a caller-driven show, the GADCA, this particular podcast that we're doing right now, in normal circumstances, will have maybe three hosts.
	And so you don't have to care too terribly much if you get calls or not, because hopefully between three people, you're going to be able to come up with enough crosstalk to fill two or three hours and do a show or a couple of hours.
	You don't really have to rely too terribly much on callers in that situation.
	But if you are doing the type of show that you're doing where, no, you don't have two or three hosts, sometimes even four on this show, you really don't benefit, I don't think, a whole lot from having a chat room because it gives people the feeling that they have provided input to the show, that they have participated in the show, and they no longer feel that urge to call in that I think they otherwise would feel.
	But I get that too.
	There are a lot of people who are afraid to make that call, but still have a great point to make.
	So I'm all good with it.
	And actually, I prefer, to be honest with you, I prefer not to take phone calls.
	I'm okay with taking phone calls.
	But the reason I prefer not to is it can sometimes jump the shark for you.
	I may not be to that point in the story yet that I want to take this.
	And you call in and jump me, you know, 30 minutes more into the conversation.
	And I got to try to figure out a way to get back from that point back to where I was at before I took that phone call.
	So I can filter the questions as they come through on wormhole and put that question in and still give credit to that person when it's time to ask that question.
	And the same with the chat room.
	And even if it was a question I was going to ask, I want you to know I'm looking and I'm trying to pay attention.
	I can't always.
	And they'll skip by me because I am also trying to focus on the guest and not reading the internet the whole time I'm doing the show.
	But that's it.
	And, you know, the other thing too, and I know it drives some of you crazy that I feel the reason to give explanations, but I do think, you know, it's real easy to sit on high and say, how you should do this, you should do that.
	Well, how about if I give you a little insight on why I do what I do?
	Maybe that'll make more sense to you.
	And you can move past trying to tell me how I'm wrong because now you realize I already know why you think I'm wrong.
	But let me at least give you one reason for why this may be, this might make more sense.
	And like, you know, people are irritated that I do a three-hour show and I might split it up with a two-hour guest and a one-hour guest.
	Well, I'd rather leave you wanting more than have a, you know, with a two-hour guest and wish, but then I can bring him back.
	You know what, Liberace, you were great this evening.
	I want to talk to you again in a few weeks when you've got more updates on this.
	Can we do that?
	Yeah, that'd be great, Dave.
	Thanks a lot.
	Boom, you're off the air.
	Then I go to my next guest.
	And some guests are really good at a short story.
	And if you milk them any further, it's painful for the audience.
	It's painful for the guest and it's painful for the host.
	And sometimes you get a guest that you think is going to suck because the pre-interview.
	Yeah, Dave, I wrote this book.
	And then you get him on the air and you're like, I'm just going to give this guy an hour.
	And you get him on the air and they've got coffee in him and the adrenaline pumping.
	And they're like, man, and then this was in and a flying head came down the hall.
	And all of a sudden you wish, God, I wish I had three hours with this guy.
	But I try to mix it up.
	And the other reason is you may absolutely hate cryptids.
	So if I do a three-hour show on cryptids, I've lost you for three hours tonight.
	But if I do two hours on cryptids and one hour on alternative energy, I might get you back in for that last hour.
	I might get you back in for the two-hour segment and lose you for one hour.
	It's all about learning to balance and try to get as many cool topics in as I possibly can, which drives poor Michelle nuts because she's used to booking one guest a night and letting him roll for four hours.
	And everybody wants to know, too, why did I back it down to three hours?
	Because I think you can do more in three hours than four hours with most of these guests.
	And if phone calls were pouring in constantly, I'd take four hours, but they're not.
	And to just beat a guest over the head and shoulders for four hours is, like I said, it's not fun.
	It's not good radio.
	I'd rather give you a three-hour concise, entertaining, whether you like that topic or not.
	And what's been fun for me is watching people going, I hate this topic, but I'll listen today.
	Wow, I really, you know, I wouldn't have never listened to this kind of topic, but that was a fascinating interview.
	Speaking of phone calls, by the way, if you want to call in, the number is 573-837-4948, 573-837-4948.
	And do call in quickly because I'm going to have to eventually end this, obviously, but probably sooner rather than later because I have a window unit AC about three or four feet away from me.
	I have to turn it off while I do this show because it is, even with my noise gate, I mean, it's just ridiculously loud.
	And I am just drenched with sweat.
	It's, you know, how hard could it be to host a radio show or an internet podcast?
	Well, based on my level of sweat, there is some level of difficulty.
	So, yeah.
	And today I had to record my True Crime Tuesday show.
	I'm doing your show for an hour and 40 minutes.
	Then I've got to do three hours on Midnight in the Desert.
	And my air conditioning's been out since last week.
	Okay, we get it.
	I'm a pussy.
	Okay, we understand.
	Suck it up.
	Point taken.
	Message conveyed.
	Thank you.
	So do you guys have any, you guys are on canine now, right?
	As far as terrestrial affiliates go?
	Yep.
	Yeah.
	And, you know, I'm open to the idea of going to other radio stations, and I'd love to.
	And understand, too, for those of you that tuned in and wanted to know why I gave Karen the boot that one night, her audio, and I'm sure if you heard it, Michael, you know, her audio is coming in like this.
	And that was brutal to listen to.
	And I knew audience members were, oh my God, turn down your microphone.
	And I didn't want to extend her for 40 minutes of pain.
	I'd rather her interview with us was something that sounded better.
	So I will have Karen on.
	I've already told Michelle we want to find a time here to connect.
	And my hope is I'm hoping on July 13th, which, you know, there'll be another Friday the 13th.
	I thought that'd be kind of a nice time to revisit with her and talk about Art Bell and radio and weird stuff.
	Well, you sound a little reluctant to go terrestrial.
	I mean, I hear a little reluctance in your voice.
	The only reason that I say there's reluctance in the idea is terrestrial has a lot of really weird rules and effects.
	And, you know, they want, they could make it real hard to do a show you want to do.
	And people will say, how come, you know, Dave, I didn't want to listen to Midnight in the Desert because I heard you on Coast to Coast and you sucked.
	I hated you on Coast to Coast, but I love you on Midnight in the Desert.
	What's the difference?
	Well, there's a certain standard.
	And sometimes you've got to do things this way to handle that or this way to handle that.
	And so I, you know, you do it differently.
	And on an internet show, an internet-based show on one station, I have a lot more freedom to kind of be me.
	And I try to carry that with me.
	And we did it for years on our show.
	But, you know, I'm also trying to cross a different boundary.
	I love doing Darkness Radio, and we've always been kind of like the college radio of paranormal.
	And I love doing that with my buddy Tim, but I also, you know, I have a different aspect of the show that I like doing with Midnight in the Desert, which is more kind of straddling between Beyond the Darkness and Coast to Coast.
	And I can kind of weave in between those two worlds.
	And that's where I like to be.
	And that's, you know, that's kind of why I host the show the way I do.
	And it's a little bit on coach.
	But you know what?
	As America's most fertile talk show host, you have a lot of children to feed, and terrestrials where the money is.
	What's going on?
	Radio.
	No, no, real quick.
	Let me put that kaibosh.
	I worked for iHeartRadio for eight and a half, almost nine years.
	That is one of the biggest radio conglomerates.
	Tim and I made $10.65 an hour doing a show five nights a week, three hours a night.
	And I made more on my True Crime podcast doing four episodes a month than I did doing 20 episodes to 22 episodes a month on iHeartRadio.
	There's no money in real radio.
	You guys must have been doing something wrong.
	There had to be some you guys screwed up somewhere.
	I don't know where, but we'll figure it out.
	Just send me all the paperwork.
	I'll look over the terms and let you know where you screwed up.
	Let's go ahead and take a call.
	Hi, you're on with Dave Schrader.
	Hi.
	Hello.
	Hey, am I the fourth caller?
	Do I win the Mr. Winnie bumper sticker?
	You get it.
	Yes, you do.
	You get an official Bell Gab trash can.
	Hey, Liberace and Dave.
	This is Gravity Sucks.
	Hey, buddy.
	Hey, Gravity Sucks.
	How are you?
	Doing good.
	Thanks for listening.
	What's up?
	I just called in to say I'm really enjoying the show.
	I like the directions you take.
	I understand the changes you made, and it's sounding good.
	And I appreciate the fact that you and Winnie come into Bell Gab and go ahead and interact with the fans there.
	I know we're not your only fans, but we're definitely your best fans.
	Well, and my wife is great.
	She's been supportive of me and doing all these changes.
	And I love that she comes into the chat room and she's a part of it.
	I've been married before and was in that marriage.
	It was not a supportive role.
	And it was very stifling and suffocating to be a part of it because we had totally different worlds and realms.
	And she didn't like the show and didn't like what I did and didn't like any of that.
	So that's why it fell apart.
	I still have respect for my ex and she for me.
	And we raise beautiful children together.
	But my wife, now my final wife, that's what she's made me promise her.
	So my final wife, Winnie, she's fantastic and supportive.
	And I'm not just saying that because she's standing here with a, you know, glaring at me from across the room.
	She is, she's great.
	And I love that she gets in and into the mix with people in the chat room and on social media and helps to make this a very family feel to what I do.
	And that makes my job even easier.
	You know, before the show, you said that there was some possibility that Winnie was going to jump in here, but I've heard not the first peep from her yet.
	What gives.
	You know what the problem is, in all honesty?
	With all the trouble I've had with my systems, I'm on like my basic system right now that has one headphone jack that works.
	So she's sitting next to me listening to the show stream, which is off by what, 20, 30 seconds.
	And she's so she just can't listen live and chat.
	But I'll be happy to turn over my headphones and let her chime in if you have a few questions for her.
	Well, you know something?
	The Bell Gab Hive Mind has decided that your wife is a complete babe.
	And I think we would like to know maybe from a skincare perspective exactly what it is she's doing because she's, what, 36 years old?
	Is that it?
	Yeah, my child bride that's in her mid to late 30s.
	So was she brought over on a boat or did you splurge for the airline ticket?
	Which it's kind of a Pinocchio thing.
	I just ordered this inflatable doll and wished on the Blue Fairy and bam, I woke up and she's a fleshy woman person.
	So that's been my luck.
	But here, I'm going to take off my headphones so I can't hear you now.
	So I'm going to let her take over for a few minutes.
	And, you know, I know a lot of the Belgabs have wanted a spooky story from her or just to you can pick her brain about what it's like to be to be married to her.
	But Dave.
	Oh, God.
	All right.
	Hold on.
	Okay.
	Here we go.
	Things are about to get real.
	Winnie Schrader approaching the microphone.
	Hello.
	Now, Winnie, be honest with me, dear.
	Is he nice to you when the microphone gets turned off?
	I don't know.
	I think he's having withdrawals already.
	Is he biting his nails?
	You seem like such a nice, agreeable woman.
	And I'm kind of wondering when you jump into Bell Gab and you say hi to people and you exchange pleasantries.
	Do you Purel after that?
	Or does it seem okay and natural to you?
	I mean, it's a pretty caustic.
	It can be a rather caustic environment.
	Even by internet standards, Bell Gab sometimes doesn't hold back.
	What have your perceptions of all of that been?
	Well, you know, I mean, people are going to say what they're going to say, whether it's social media and chat rooms.
	I just shrug it off.
	I just ignore it.
	I don't engage because that's what they want.
	That's why they're saying the things that they say.
	So, you know, if they don't like Dave, they don't like Dave, but, you know, they don't have to listen either.
	So, I mean, I just, I don't get a lot of these people who can't stand certain radio show hosts, yet they have to tune in every time, which is fine.
	Tune in.
	I don't care.
	He doesn't.
	But, yeah, it's, you know, I try and defuse any type of issues by posting funny gifs or jokes, and it usually calms down, but it hasn't been too bad.
	I swear when I, I swear when I hear your accent, all I can think of is, but you're getting seagrades.
	That's why we don't want you going out for hockey this year.
	Bye-bye.
	I know.
	I do have a thick Minnesota accent.
	I don't know how Dave, he likes to tease me about it, but he thinks.
	Do you enjoy the movie Fargo?
	Have you ever seen the movie Fargo?
	Yes, I've seen it many, many times.
	Okay, so you got the reference just now.
	I wanted to be sure of that.
	There's nothing worse, in my opinion, than delivering a movie reference and the recipients of that not having any clue what it was you were referring to.
	Do you have any radio experience yourself, or is this totally a foreign universe to you?
	Actually, it's not a foreign universe.
	I actually work for a local radio show.
	I co-produce.
	That's right.
	I knew that.
	Yeah, and I've, I mean, I've been a fan of radio since I can remember, since I was a little girl.
	So, you know, seeing Dave go through all this and my mentor, a local radio show host, and now I get to work for him.
	It's been a dream come true for me.
	So that's, I mean, well, tell Dave that, you know, just I would like him to be nice to you when the microphone is turned off.
	You seem to deserve it.
	No, no, no, even joking, smacking or anything like that.
	I just want to be sure that everything is okay.
	Belgab is concerned about, you know, I'm just kidding.
	Nobody's concerned.
	Everything's fine.
	So I can hold my own.
	Okay.
	Well, you know, that Minnesota accent, though, you sound so nice and enjoyable and just agreeable with a Minnesota accent.
	It does, I can't imagine someone with a Minnesota accent holding their own.
	It just sort of, I don't think anyone from Minnesota's ever been in a fight, I guess is what I'm saying.
	We do it by looking at our shoes and saying nasty things.
	We don't make eye contact.
	Yeah, we're passive aggressive like that.
	But no, I mean, I just, with the haters and stuff, I just ignore them.
	That's the best thing you can do for them.
	So, and for yourself, and, you know, and just enjoy Midnight in the Desert.
	And, you know, and if you have, you know, criticism for Dave, do it in a constructive way.
	That's the best way.
	And that's the best way he's going to pay attention to it and actually take it to heart.
	So.
	Well, in this modern era, it's nice to see a woman standing by her man.
	I have to say that it's refreshing.
	Well, I'm very proud of him.
	He works very, very hard.
	Well, thank you for coming on.
	It's nice to hear your voice.
	I don't know that anybody's heard your voice yet, or at least not in the whole Belgab universe, that collection of humanity that's paying attention to all of that.
	So thanks for coming on.
	It's nice to put a voice with the face.
	And don't hesitate to post additional pictures of yourself online, okay?
	If I ever have time to take a picture of myself, I'm so busy all the time.
	But yeah, you know, maybe sometime I'll pop on and say a ghost story of my own that I've experienced and we'll just go from there.
	All right, Winnie.
	Well, you take care.
	Have a good night.
	Thank you.
	All right.
	Bye-bye.
	That's Winnie Schrader, host of, host of, wife of Dave Schrader, host of Midnight in the Desert.
	Dave, you have a lovely wife.
	Yes, I do.
	She's host of the Schrady Bunch at our house.
	Well, I'm going to call it quits at this point.
	I am just, I just saw a drip of sweat fall onto the paper that I was holding in my hand, and that's where I draw the line.
	I mean, I am not in a coal mine, and I'm not sawing a tree down.
	I'm sitting behind a desk with electricity all around me and actual electric components.
	So I should not be sweating to this degree.
	I'm glad you came on.
	It's nice to hear your thoughts on a number of things that you've discussed, particularly listener input and the transition from Heather to you and some of the thoughts and experiences that came to you in the course of all of that.
	And I hope you have ongoing success.
	You're very accessible.
	You seem like a regular guy.
	And some people, some people try to put themselves out there like they're attempting to seem like a regular guy.
	And it's shtick.
	It's phony.
	It's an affectation.
	But you really do seem like a pretty regular guy.
	It's kind of refreshing.
	So I wish you success.
	And I hope that you and Keith are able to emerge from the chaotic cesspit that was Heather's departure from Midnight in the Desert and really make something out of it.
	I think I don't care how much you sit here and tell me that you wish her well and all of that.
	I will be the bad guy and say that I think the best revenge is success.
	And I really want to see you succeed, not just for that reason.
	I think you deserve it.
	So I wish you well.
	I appreciate that.
	Thank you.
	Can I address one final thing?
	No, the show's over.
	Thank you, Dave, and good night.
	Go ahead.
	Go ahead.
	Everybody wants to know why do I call her Winnie when her name on social media is Cassie?
	And so I don't want people thinking I'm juggling two women.
	My wife's name is beautiful.
	It's Winifred is her first name.
	She's always gone by her middle name, Cassie.
	That's what her family calls us.
	And I said, with an amazing name like Winifred, you are my Winnie, and I'm just going to call you Winnie.
	And that's it.
	My family calls her Winnie.
	I call her Winnie.
	So she is kind of trapped with her social media being Cassie and has been for years.
	So just so people don't think I'm juggling two hot twin babes.
	Yeah, that'd be horrible if people thought that about you.
	God, you wouldn't want that out there.
	I think you just let people behind the curtain in a way that I think wasn't very self-serving.
	You should have just left it as it was.
	Let people think certain things.
	It can add to the mystique and the public perception.
	Hey, thank you for giving everybody a forum and a place to go that loves radio and hates me or loves me, and I appreciate it either way.
	So thank you, and I'll be back again.
	Well, thanks for not being scared of Belgab like a complete pussy.
	There's too much of that.
	So thank you.
	You got it.
	All right, buddy.
	See you later.
	Have a good night.
	Bye-bye.
	That's Dave Schrader, host of Midnight in the Desert.
	And I really do mean that.
	I really respect the fact that he's not scared of Belgab and he actually embraced it.
	And I've believed for quite some time that was one of the major mistakes that Heather made in the course of hosting Midnight in the Desert was the fact that she ran from Belgab because as soon as she got knighted by King Art Bell, she decided that she had to become this, I don't know, this professional thing that she envisioned in her mind.
	And Belgab simply was not compatible with the image that she had created of herself.
	And so she ran from it.
	And I think it would have been a great nucleus to engender loyalty and build listenership.
	And nice symbiotic relationship could have existed there.
	And she just totally ran for it, ran from it.
	And I think it's refreshing to see somebody like Dave who isn't scared of it, embraces it, gets down in the dirt with people if that's what it takes.
	I mean, he'll respond to whatever.
	He's not afraid.
	And I think that's really refreshing.
	And at this point, I'm babbling.
	So everybody, have a great night.
	Thanks for listening.
	This is the Gabcast, a podcast about bellgab.com.
	You'll be able to download this episode at ufoship.com.
	I'll try and have it posted in about an hour or so, something like that, for everybody listening live.
	And don't forget to subscribe in your podcatcher.
	I recommend for people on Android that you use an app called Beyond Pod.
	If you'd like a really solid podcatcher that'll automatically pull these episodes in as they're posted online, Beyond Pod, go check that out.
	I think it's the way to go.
	Have a great night, everybody.
	And until next time, we'll see you on Bellgab.
	I go by Liberace on Bellgab.
	And I don't know what you go by, but I'm sure we've probably encountered one another somewhere, here, there, elsewhere.
	I don't know.

▲